No need to ask who he learned _that_ technique from or who he voted for, assuming he isn't a felon, assuming he didn't just vote anyway, and I'm pretty sure he'd have voted the same way even if he were one of us Canadians. I'm actually curious how many Canadians voted for the orange blob anyway, or how many will next time around... I'ma look that up. I have visions of maps of Africa in "Jonathan"'s home with bits of it added in Sharpie.
Literally after the first full thought Forrest got out, guy's response was, "Ok... (incoherent rambling)" Dude was not listening even once. Just called in for the attention. It would be sad if it weren't so intentionally irritating.
As a geologist i cringed at his comment about the Mississippi river. At no single point in time was the river 110 miles wide. It has meandered over the years across the 110 miles he speaks of. In fact the valley width is much wider than 110 miles. I would suggest he read a book on the actual history of the Mississippi river.
I posted this. Is this accurate? Are there any non-religious universities that have geology departments that claim there was a worldwide flood 6 to 10,000 years ago? Name one non relgious university geology department that teaches a worldwide flood 6000 years ago. There are over 6000 universities worldwide with geology departments.
Was it ever 110 miles wide when the mile high ice glaciers were melting and the ice dam broke flooding a huge area? I know that happened but don't know the details and not sure if that was the Mississippi or not.
@@BM1982.V2 The flood you are talking about was in Washington and Oregon and did not affect the Mississippi. There have been some massive floods in the past, but none that big. Look up the Lake Missoula flood. It was quite an event.
YEP. Listening to his arrogance yet lack of knowledge I knew right where he fit on the graph. Somebody who'd taken a few courses, came up with or saw a theory somewhere, and assumed it all makes sense because... he doesn't know what he doesn't know.
And he's literally admitting to a part of how misinformation and disinformation works. Facts a lot of the time aren't as interesting as the made up stories and ideas people have for certain topics.
Geologist here. Some of my thoughts: Underfit streams exist. In the Mississippi watershed in particular, they are in the upper reach, not the low-lying floodplains. They are certainly not located in U-shaped valleys 100 miles wide. He also brought up the Yellow River. Both of these rivers have broad floodplains (they have been engineered beyond recognition now), where the channels historically migrated laterally, eroding, depositing, occasionally flooding, and repeating these basic surficial processes over and over through geologic time. This transition from defined channels to a fluvial plain is a principle feature of most river systems as they work their way to their delta. Fluvial floodplains are absolutely not evidence of a global flood. He then mentions very large "ripple" marks, but then tells you to look up multiple examples of eolian sand dunes. So... yeah, enough said. He would've been better off mentioning the ripple marks from the Glacial Lake Missoula Jökulhlaups in the PNW. Only, we very clearly understand the mechanism for those floods, and they weren't global. You nailed his ass on the fossil record argument. You nailed him again on dating methods. The guadalupe skeletons came from burial sites. The presence of abundant CaCO3 means that saturated water gets into pore spaces in the ground and precipitates carbonate, which is why they appeared to be in a cemented matrix. They were not lithified or fossilized. Also, diatoms are siliceous. They DO NOT create limestone (carbonates). So he's categorically wrong, again. Thanks for the good work!
@ I was joking, I actually have in laws that are young earth creationists. I went on vacation and took them to both the mammoth dig museum and the bad lands. Which are both very heavy in plaques about both geology and evolution, and did t know they were YEC till vacation was over and my husband told me 😹 bwahaha
@agiraffe3673 I am sorry about that! I imagine having YEC in-laws can be equal parts frustrating and entertaining. I hope you enjoyed your time at the Badlands. I think it's an awesome place.
There are actual, PhD level geologists here on this platform who explain how rivers and lakes form and change over time….and they completely disagree with Jonathan here.
And I should have waited until the end of the video because it got much, much worse. He listed/believes-in so many fossil FRAUDS and of course he’s soooooooo misinformed.
Now now, be fair. There are _toddlers_ who would disagree with Jonathan and could make a good case for why he's wrong. I remember 30-ish years ago when I visited the Ontario natural science museum, playing with an interactive display of water flow, arranging seashells to make their little toy boats flow downstream better, and I figured out more stuff in that half-hour than Jonathan has learned in his entire life. Then I tried and failed to stand in front of their big parabolic reflectors to listen to people across the room. Because _children_ can figure this stuff out splashing in a bathtub, even if they don't fully understand it.
@@EdwardHowtonGood point. I think it’s important to expose kids to the sciences early with experiments they can do and comprehend. Jonathan, on the other hand, probably grew up in some small community in the foothills of the Sierra Nevada, attended one church, did one job his entire life and was never exposed to such things. How could I make the probable claim? I too originally came from a small town in the foothills of the Sierras and knew many people such as himself.
The Missouri & Mississippi rivers used to flood all the time then we channeled the shit out of them to contain them, that’s why they’re so much narrower now.
Also they shifted all over the place like writhing snakes. Used to live in St. Louis and that thing jumped its banks and made a break for it more than once in just the short time I was there as a child.
All Johnathan needs to do to prove his hypothesis is write a paper, submit it to a reputable journal, and have it pier reviewed. Then we'll all be very interested in his musings.
“Whatever you say is going to be nonsense so just say it already” Translation: “I’m not going to listen, my minds made up and I’m just here to say your dumb” Conversation died there lmao
The whole time he’s saying you guys don’t keep an open mind and won’t listen to him. He laughed at everything you say and before he even hears it says you’re just gonna say something ridiculous
The Yellow River is basically why the Chinese had to INVENT public water works like dams and dykes around 3000 BCE. I know he’s a YEC and their lack of history in general is abysmal, but for non Euro-centric countries it’s basically nonexistent. SMH.
Young earth creationists are right there with flat earthers for me. It's a pointless argument witth people that have chosen to ignore anything that does not comport with their possition.
No, you're right. Wasting our time is a big part of these people's lives. They think we're demon-possessed evildoers, so "fighting" us they justify as an objective good. And when we do get irritated after being called pure evil and immoral monsters day in, day out, for _decades,_ they flee back to their idiot pigeon-brained friends and go "See? They're so ANGERY lololololo we sure am the good guys for Jesus amirite" and on does the cycle continue. Reminds me of Carcer, the character in _Night Watch._ Vimes comments he's the type who, when caught stabbing someone, who look at you innocently going "Who, me?" with the bloody knife in his hand, and who would _believe_ he's innocent and you're just persecuting him.
"Do your own research" if by 'do' you mean 'fall', by 'your' you mean 'asleep', by 'own' you mean 'in church', and by 'research' you mean 'then just mindlessly repeat ignorant platitudes you think you vaguely remember the pastor spewing', then yes.
You gotta love how the conspiracy brained think that the majority of scientists are only looking to reaffirm existing models. When is the complete opposite and most scientists only accept that they can’t disprove that model… yet lol.
OMg Forrest!!😂😂. But seriously, your patience is amazing. I know much of that comes with your experience as an educator. But to watch your facial expressions as you listened to, what looks like a teacher listening to his student who didn’t pay attention in class, quite entertaining.
We live in a time of so much knowledge, at our fingertips. You can read so many papers from people in the field. This is what he came up with... And is able to share it with others. Wild world..
“Places that are at the equator now weren’t always at the equator” “Yeah” And it’s at this point he concedes plate tectonics, and the argument of a global flood.
Looked into his claim of the Guadaloupe woman. Actuall known as the Guadloupan skeleton, it was determined to be ~2000 years old, enbedded in calcified sand.
How does "rain everywhere" produce localized flood effects like enlarged rivers? Water everywhere in no way would generate large rivers. It generates oceans.
I think the theist caller is assuming that when the waters receded (to who knows 'where') he's thinking at that time the water had to "run off" the continents into the ocean (because the oceans were draining?). Come to think of it, I'm not sure how the caller's brain doesn't work. Never mind.
@ yeah, but the waters *cover the land* . They wouldn’t make giant river valleys. They’d drain from everywhere all at once. Of course, where would a world wide flood drain to in the first place?
My first thought is tangentially related to yours. What difference would it make if the Mississippi were at one point 110 miles wide? How does that lend evidence to a global flood that covered all the land? It was supposed to have flooded everywhere because it rained everywhere and not in localized areas as you said.
@@llwpeaches and of course if the most distant banks of the Mississippi are 110 miles apart, that in no way means that the river itself was ever 110 miles wide. Either bank could, and probably was, created by the river moving back and forth as it does.
33:57 limestone forms from calcium carbonate fossils, diatoms aren't composed of calcium carbonate. They're made from silica and form an entirely different kind of sediment
The problem with callers like this is that Forrest and Paulogia state they are not geology experts but they will have discussed this issue many times in the past so they know enough to know it’s nonsense but this caller believes he is an expert on this because he has googled all the creationist nonsense websites on this topic so he believes he can explain and school them both with his superior knowledge and expertise.
The Willamette Valley, where I live, is wide and flat, and one of the most fertile places in the world, specifically because of the repeated (more than 40) massive floods, up to 1200 feet deep, that came down the Columbia River from Canada and Idaho, across Eastern Washington, through the Wallula Gap, backed up in the Willamette Valley, and out to the Pacific, during the Ice Age (18,000 years ago, 60,000 years ago, 120,000 years ago, etc, up to a million years ago. The water came from the melting ice sheet covering Canada, etc, and the beaches were approximately 200 feet lower than current sea levels, globally, because of the mile high ice sheet covering the upper latitudes.
I am a geologist, I wasn’t specifically trained on river geomorphology but I do remember from first year how sea level changes and erosion cause the low lying areas which river deltas form in. One of the reasons for river deltas given existing coastal planes is indeed flooding we can see recent examples all over the place of flooding over filling entire flood plains and recarving new river channels. In 1955 the river which runs near my house was briefly among the highest volume output rivers on earth (it is estimated to have output close to 1/2 the average flow rate of the Amazon river for a few days) and its width usually about
If you have a theory that you believe will shake foundations, then you best be ready for push back. It's unreasonable to expect anyone to agree unconditionally when you throw a major conflicting claim at them.
If all of the fossils were created during the global flood, why is it that we never find fossillized lobsters buried right alongside trilobite fossils? Why is it that we never find fossilized horses or bovids in the same strata as fossilized maiasaurids?
When most of ancient human lived with walking distance of a river. A localized 100 year flood like as seen in 1993 upper Mississippi/ missouri river systems would have dramatically affected the life of all people on it. People would tell stories of this great calamity and when they meet other people I bet they shared stories and realized "oh you had a scary flood too" Thus world wide flood mythology is born in the near east
Name one non relgious university geology department that teaches a worldwide flood 6000 years ago. There are over 6000 universities worldwide with geology departments.
You know what, I'm inclined to suggest *again* to callers that rather than claiming knowledge on some call in show, that they instead *sue in court* . If you can prove what you say *do it* . Overturn the system of knowledge that we are teaching to people. Your unwillingness to actually *demonstrate a coherent idea* is proof enough that you are aware you are lying.
The courts are already overloaded with BS claimants as it is, I don't think they'd appreciate even more of them filing nuisance lawsuits against math teachers who "dare" to "lie" that 2+2=4.. No, what we _need_ is for more debatemebros to turn into don'ttasemebros. Now THAT would benefit everybody.
I dont think such a suit could realistically be sought. There generally has to be standing and damages that can be demonstrated before a suit can proceed.
@ I disagree, at least provided it was something that is taught in public schools. You’d only need a parent with child in the school to be a party. Otherwise, *publish* your proof! No one who only argues against science online is anything but a crank.
@@graladue courts cant adjudicate science. How would this work? Say i have solid evidence the world was flat. How can i as a parent get a court to take that case against a school? Where are the damages? How am i harmed tangibly by the school not teaching my evidence or interpretation of the evidence? How is a jury going to adjudicate which version is correct? The scopes monkey trial tends to imply that a jury of one’s peers is willing to disregard science in favor of the state or broader cultural interest. I agree with the spirit of your post though, the journals are just the proper ground for testing ideas (for the most part).
@@Typexviiib Dover vs Kitzmuller says otherwise. If you have provable science, you can more or less sue to include it in the science curriculum. They tried with Intelligent Design and lost.
what was his actual argument? That straight and wide rivers prove a flood? From what I can tell, it amounts to 'all geological features prove a global flood because I say so'. If he wants to claim these large river beds show 'massive drainage' - he now has to tell us where the water has drained to. Because if it's the water that exists in the sea now - then that clearly hasn't drained off the continents. And if you cannot pronounce Mauritania you can't take him seriously. He's trying to pretend sand dunes are 'ripples'. He's proof that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing - and it usually bites you in the backside.
The actual argument was this: "When I'm in church, the guy holding the bible can say whatever and I am required to believe it and I do so happily. I am holding the bible now, and I am saying stupid shit, which means you are now required to happily believe whatever I say. Why isn't this working? You're just evil or something, that has to be it. At least I can spread the Word on the teevees through the innernets on your show and reveal the Truth(tm)!" Don't look for sense in people who are completely delusional from infancy. He's trying to preach, not convince, not argue.
@@EdwardHowton And the thing that he is here to do the absolute least is learn. He quit geology because it's boring, but he claims to know what information is not contained within the geology textbook. So he was too bored to learn geology, but he wasn't too bored to scour the entirety of plural books on the subject in order to check that they omit a topic he does care about? Yeah, that's believable.
Caller: Have you heard of rivers? Me: Have you heard of there was no global flood? Also me: Theists are just ruled by the paradigm of if they believe nonsense hard enough they won't ever die.
- a global flood, folks! - what caused that flood, Jonathan? - God. - What is the g0d? - Well... ahhkchoolee... - Come on, man. Feel free to demonstrate the g0d. THEN we might have a chance to investigate whether it did cause a global flood. And how. And if it can and did cause a global flood then we'll start wondering: Why the g0d does not cause 1 rainy day in any area ruined by drought. (another way this chat could have gone) Jonathan started at step 2 (making a claim about the action of a deity), then he went on, and was wrong all the way.
This conversation should have ended when the caller admitted HE DIDN'T EVEN KNOW WHEN THE FLOOD WAS! WTF? How can you claim to be an expert on something then not know something as fundamental as when it was?
Gutsick Gibbon likes to point out that one such company did precisely that! Zion Oil & Gas. If I'm reading the Wikipedia entry correctly, after constantly digging in the wrong places and finding nothing they made (an increase over the previous year!) a _whopping_ negative seven million US dollars in 2023, have 25 million in assets, and have 22 employees. Imagine an oil company _losing_ money and being delisted on NASDAQ. Money laundering is alive and well I guess. 22 people sharing seven million isn't a terrible con; sharing a free 300k for doing nothing, just by scamming people's donations for Jesus?
Being a curious sort, I did a quick search for the Guadeloupe woman. I managed to turn up an article where it goes through the finding of the skeleton, the extraction and relocation of, initial hypothesis of origin. It then goes on to refute the original hypothesis with evidence like 1) the bone wasn't fossilized and still contained organic materials, 2) the stone was misidentified as marble instead of the limestone it was, suggesting it was older on inspection than it is, and 3) other marine organism shells were found in the stone matrix, were complete enough for identification, and pointed to a far far far more recent burial than 'ancient'. Oops. It is amazing what even just 5 minutes of researching can do.
Jonathan: "Catastrophism should be seriously considered." Well, I, for one, consider his arrogant mannerism to be an example of individual-scale catastrophism.
The only bone I'd throw him on this: "Catastrophism" occurs in isolated instances (East Oregon badlands, Black Sea flood, nothing world-wide). Otherwise, uniformitarianism rules.
No, there are no human footprints occurring with the dinosaur trackway in the Paluxy River. There are carved fakes; there are eroded dino prints. I have waded in the Paluxy River and examined the dinosaur trackway.--Dr. Sharon Diehl, geochemist, geologist, evolutionary biologist. You are awesome in your patience with the young-earth creationists.
I really did a double take when the caller asked about why he didn’t se limestone accumulation at the sea floor when walking on the beach at 25:00. Does he hear himself or does he listen as little to himself as he does Paul and Forrest?
Guadalupe woman was encased in beach rock and the best estimates put her around 2k years old. The formation is not dissimilar to that which the “bimini road” is made out of. Lime bearing stone has been observed to form quickly in tropical and semi tropical tidal zones with abundant calcium sources: Also, sharks are older than trees, if we are talking about broad clades in evolutionary history.
Poor you guys.... you must feel so fed up with people who are like : '' yeah, yeah!! I have studied this shit'', then go on to say that professionals don't know about their field of work...HONESTLY!
The nerve of that guy to plead for them to be "open minded" when every alternate suggestion offered by the hosts was answered with an emphatic "NO" without any consideration by him.
_Rivers all over the earth experience flooding._ _Therefore all rivers must have flooded simultaneously in a single worldwide event._ Can't imagine why any geologist wouldn't accept that.
38:50 "Anybody can discover something" Yes, make some field studies, write down your methods, discoveries and conclusions, get it peer reviewed and claim your Nobel prize. Don't call in into atheist shows.
"I looked at Google, I know more than every scientist on the planet"
No need to ask who he learned _that_ technique from or who he voted for, assuming he isn't a felon, assuming he didn't just vote anyway, and I'm pretty sure he'd have voted the same way even if he were one of us Canadians. I'm actually curious how many Canadians voted for the orange blob anyway, or how many will next time around... I'ma look that up.
I have visions of maps of Africa in "Jonathan"'s home with bits of it added in Sharpie.
@@EdwardHowton What were the results of your research?
@@EdwardHowton"Alphas" who ramble on Joe Rogan and whine about democrats is where he got his information. I'll bet $10 on it.
Eh... someone has to be the best scientist in the world. Maybe it really is this dummy and we are just too dumb to realize it.
Same logic as flat earthers.
"Why can't you be openminded while I refuse to consider anything you say?"
Literally after the first full thought Forrest got out, guy's response was, "Ok... (incoherent rambling)"
Dude was not listening even once. Just called in for the attention. It would be sad if it weren't so intentionally irritating.
Beautifully articulated.
😂😂😂
"I guarantee whatever you're gonna say is gonnna be nonsense"
- Open-minded creationist
"Well, you are only openminded if you believe everything I say. If you're open to ideas that oppose me than you are close minded."
As a geologist i cringed at his comment about the Mississippi river. At no single point in time was the river 110 miles wide. It has meandered over the years across the 110 miles he speaks of. In fact the valley width is much wider than 110 miles. I would suggest he read a book on the actual history of the Mississippi river.
I posted this. Is this accurate? Are there any non-religious universities that have geology departments that claim there was a worldwide flood 6 to 10,000 years ago?
Name one non relgious university geology department that teaches a worldwide flood 6000 years ago. There are over 6000 universities worldwide with geology departments.
Was it ever 110 miles wide when the mile high ice glaciers were melting and the ice dam broke flooding a huge area? I know that happened but don't know the details and not sure if that was the Mississippi or not.
Looked it up and I guess that was the Missoula flood that I'm thinking of. Wrong side of the continent...
@@BM1982.V2 The flood you are talking about was in Washington and Oregon and did not affect the Mississippi. There have been some massive floods in the past, but none that big. Look up the Lake Missoula flood. It was quite an event.
You're just being closed minded.
“They only talk about boring stuff” the mating cry of the willfully ignorant
😂 haha
Ha!
Boring = didn't mention jesus😂
The caller is an excellent example of Dunning-Kruger Effect.
Dunning-Kruger? He seems to be doing self-delusion more so to be honest.
DK is a form of delusion.
YEP.
Listening to his arrogance yet lack of knowledge I knew right where he fit on the graph. Somebody who'd taken a few courses, came up with or saw a theory somewhere, and assumed it all makes sense because... he doesn't know what he doesn't know.
"...did they talk about any of this stuff?" "no, they only talked about boring stuff." says EVERYTHING about this guy. wow.
Yup
And he's literally admitting to a part of how misinformation and disinformation works. Facts a lot of the time aren't as interesting as the made up stories and ideas people have for certain topics.
@@terrencelockett4072 Ha! And why you find People and Star Weekly at the checkout lines and not Scientific American.
@@markoshun Great observation. You would think they could at least put Analog at the checkout counter.
Maybe he should "try to be a little bit open-minded." 🤣
"Wide rivers, therefore the Flood" and if you disagree, you're just closed-minded and brainwashed! LMAO
Then I am brainwashed and close-minded.
The caller is so open minded that is brain fell out
And he didn't even notice.
@@freddan6fly
It sounds like his brain is dragging his tongue with it.
Greetings to my favorite coffee- and book-loving host. Your comment was, as usual , spot on.
Why, if there was a world wide flood covering all the land, was there a limit to how wide the rivers were?
@@Vishanti They did not tell him about the heat problem. That is why I would have liked Erica to have taken the call
Thanks Noah for travelling to Australia and New Zealand to collect the Koalas, Kangaroos, Wombats, Platypus and Kiwis.
And emus and echidnas and bilbys and ….
It’s no wonder Noah would become a drunk.
And then he must have gone straight to the Galapagos Islands.
@WhoThisMonkey Oops, forgot about them! That's some epic journey!
And then comes back via South America to pick up that little Brazilian Tree Frog and his Mss.
Geologist here.
Some of my thoughts:
Underfit streams exist. In the Mississippi watershed in particular, they are in the upper reach, not the low-lying floodplains. They are certainly not located in U-shaped valleys 100 miles wide. He also brought up the Yellow River. Both of these rivers have broad floodplains (they have been engineered beyond recognition now), where the channels historically migrated laterally, eroding, depositing, occasionally flooding, and repeating these basic surficial processes over and over through geologic time. This transition from defined channels to a fluvial plain is a principle feature of most river systems as they work their way to their delta. Fluvial floodplains are absolutely not evidence of a global flood.
He then mentions very large "ripple" marks, but then tells you to look up multiple examples of eolian sand dunes. So... yeah, enough said. He would've been better off mentioning the ripple marks from the Glacial Lake Missoula Jökulhlaups in the PNW. Only, we very clearly understand the mechanism for those floods, and they weren't global.
You nailed his ass on the fossil record argument.
You nailed him again on dating methods.
The guadalupe skeletons came from burial sites. The presence of abundant CaCO3 means that saturated water gets into pore spaces in the ground and precipitates carbonate, which is why they appeared to be in a cemented matrix. They were not lithified or fossilized.
Also, diatoms are siliceous. They DO NOT create limestone (carbonates). So he's categorically wrong, again.
Thanks for the good work!
I'm in NW Ohio .. we have fascinating glacial structures in our area if you want to check it out on Google Earth 😂😂😂😂
Ugh, you’re just talking about the boring stuff…😂
@agiraffe3673 true - but somebody has to find it interesting. Otherwise, we wouldn't have society as it is today.
@ I was joking, I actually have in laws that are young earth creationists. I went on vacation and took them to both the mammoth dig museum and the bad lands. Which are both very heavy in plaques about both geology and evolution, and did t know they were YEC till vacation was over and my husband told me 😹 bwahaha
@agiraffe3673 I am sorry about that! I imagine having YEC in-laws can be equal parts frustrating and entertaining. I hope you enjoyed your time at the Badlands. I think it's an awesome place.
There are actual, PhD level geologists here on this platform who explain how rivers and lakes form and change over time….and they completely disagree with Jonathan here.
And I should have waited until the end of the video because it got much, much worse. He listed/believes-in so many fossil FRAUDS and of course he’s soooooooo misinformed.
Now now, be fair. There are _toddlers_ who would disagree with Jonathan and could make a good case for why he's wrong.
I remember 30-ish years ago when I visited the Ontario natural science museum, playing with an interactive display of water flow, arranging seashells to make their little toy boats flow downstream better, and I figured out more stuff in that half-hour than Jonathan has learned in his entire life. Then I tried and failed to stand in front of their big parabolic reflectors to listen to people across the room. Because _children_ can figure this stuff out splashing in a bathtub, even if they don't fully understand it.
@@EdwardHowtonGood point. I think it’s important to expose kids to the sciences early with experiments they can do and comprehend. Jonathan, on the other hand, probably grew up in some small community in the foothills of the Sierra Nevada, attended one church, did one job his entire life and was never exposed to such things. How could I make the probable claim? I too originally came from a small town in the foothills of the Sierras and knew many people such as himself.
Jonathan: ‘Please keep an open mind’.
Also Jonathan: ‘I guarantee whatever you’re going to say is going to be nonsense’.
🤦♂️
Forest's face when he hears something insane is priceless.
The Missouri & Mississippi rivers used to flood all the time then we channeled the shit out of them to contain them, that’s why they’re so much narrower now.
Also they shifted all over the place like writhing snakes. Used to live in St. Louis and that thing jumped its banks and made a break for it more than once in just the short time I was there as a child.
Oh no, they make limestone teddy bears in Yorkshire (England) by placing them under a mineral rich waterfall. Takes 6 to 12 months.
That, and all the water drawn off along the way by the cities along their lengths.
The Misery river has been damned and channelized into a semblance of submission.
All Johnathan needs to do to prove his hypothesis is write a paper, submit it to a reputable journal, and have it pier reviewed. Then we'll all be very interested in his musings.
don't put pier through that, lol
Did it never occur to this guy that "the boring stuff" might have answered his questions?
“Whatever you say is going to be nonsense so just say it already”
Translation: “I’m not going to listen, my minds made up and I’m just here to say your dumb”
Conversation died there lmao
"They only talked about boring stuff. They didn't mention any of the interesting stuff that aligns with my theory."
I wonder why that would be."
Must have been an honor to get a call from Mr. Dunning-Krueger.
Forrest's interrogation of his learning process was perfect. Very well handled.
Not sure I would have had the patience deal with Jonathan's arrogant certitude. And I taught middle school science.
@kevinkoch-jj1uj Would either Jonathan or Kent Hovind have passed your classes??🤣
@@alexanderingraham8255 Probably. I've had my share of clowns. Most passed if they did the work.
Forrest is good at this.
@ I guess that's fair
Jonathan is reading his entire playbook from Creationist literature and has never examined any opposing views, like, oh, I dunno...ALL of science.
"Try to be openminded"
"Also, whatever you're about to say: I guarantee it's going to be nonsense."
As Hitch used to say "You strike me as someone who has never read a single shred of writings that are contrary to your position.".
I tell people like this to submit their paper to a peer reviewed scientific journal and see how far they get.
That would just convince them that science is rigged.
Dunning kreuger is insane in this guy
The whole time he’s saying you guys don’t keep an open mind and won’t listen to him. He laughed at everything you say and before he even hears it says you’re just gonna say something ridiculous
11:39 "I haven't heard scientists talk about it." Heh. You don't say.
My goodness. So much faith in his homework versus actual experts who have studied science for decades, and centuries.
The yellow river, which famously has no floods, shows signs of floods. His reasoning is impeccable 😂
The Yellow River is basically why the Chinese had to INVENT public water works like dams and dykes around 3000 BCE. I know he’s a YEC and their lack of history in general is abysmal, but for non Euro-centric countries it’s basically nonexistent. SMH.
Young earth creationists are right there with flat earthers for me. It's a pointless argument witth people that have chosen to ignore anything that does not comport with their possition.
I found undeniable proof of a global flood,i found water in my bathtub...
Water exists, therefore Bible true
Something kind of looks like something else if you squint, therefore God.
People like Jonathan call in to see if they can upset the hosts. It is a badge of honour in their nasty world. Imo
No, you're right. Wasting our time is a big part of these people's lives. They think we're demon-possessed evildoers, so "fighting" us they justify as an objective good. And when we do get irritated after being called pure evil and immoral monsters day in, day out, for _decades,_ they flee back to their idiot pigeon-brained friends and go "See? They're so ANGERY lololololo we sure am the good guys for Jesus amirite" and on does the cycle continue. Reminds me of Carcer, the character in _Night Watch._ Vimes comments he's the type who, when caught stabbing someone, who look at you innocently going "Who, me?" with the bloody knife in his hand, and who would _believe_ he's innocent and you're just persecuting him.
This is true. I grew up in that world
This guy is the poster boy for "Do Your Own Research"!!
🤣🤣🤣
"Do your own research" if by 'do' you mean 'fall', by 'your' you mean 'asleep', by 'own' you mean 'in church', and by 'research' you mean 'then just mindlessly repeat ignorant platitudes you think you vaguely remember the pastor spewing', then yes.
His own "research" was looking at pictures. Lol
They're finally expanding on their best argument ---- "Look at the trees, ah, and the rivers.".
"I reject flood geology therefore my fairytale flood is real"
Define "perfectly terraced." in a way that doesn't require, looks like it to me.
It’s amazing how much work the phrase “ It looks like…” does for these people. It’s hilarious and depressing at the same time. I call it deprarious!
Once again, we have someone who glanced casually at something and thought they had an epiphany.
"I think the error bars are much bigger than they are willing to admit"
So a simple conspiracy theorist then.
You gotta love how the conspiracy brained think that the majority of scientists are only looking to reaffirm existing models. When is the complete opposite and most scientists only accept that they can’t disprove that model… yet lol.
OMg Forrest!!😂😂. But seriously, your patience is amazing. I know much of that comes with your experience as an educator. But to watch your facial expressions as you listened to, what looks like a teacher listening to his student who didn’t pay attention in class, quite entertaining.
We live in a time of so much knowledge, at our fingertips. You can read so many papers from people in the field. This is what he came up with... And is able to share it with others. Wild world..
“Places that are at the equator now weren’t always at the equator”
“Yeah”
And it’s at this point he concedes plate tectonics, and the argument of a global flood.
Where did all the water go? And how did all the fresh water fish survive in the salt water?
More importantly, how did the waters split back into fresh and salt water and repopulate with the life that belonged in each?
The Chicxulub crater isn’t volcanic. The geology there is consistent with an impact and not a volcano.
I think the other thing that might be able to satisfy my urge to watch these videos would be a Dunning-Kruger generator.
Looked into his claim of the Guadaloupe woman. Actuall known as the Guadloupan skeleton, it was determined to be ~2000 years old, enbedded in calcified sand.
How does "rain everywhere" produce localized flood effects like enlarged rivers? Water everywhere in no way would generate large rivers. It generates oceans.
I think the theist caller is assuming that when the waters receded (to who knows 'where') he's thinking at that time the water had to "run off" the continents into the ocean (because the oceans were draining?).
Come to think of it, I'm not sure how the caller's brain doesn't work. Never mind.
@ yeah, but the waters *cover the land* . They wouldn’t make giant river valleys. They’d drain from everywhere all at once.
Of course, where would a world wide flood drain to in the first place?
My first thought is tangentially related to yours. What difference would it make if the Mississippi were at one point 110 miles wide? How does that lend evidence to a global flood that covered all the land? It was supposed to have flooded everywhere because it rained everywhere and not in localized areas as you said.
@@graladueyeah, that is also a good point, where would it drain to? Now they have to add hollow earth stuff…
@@llwpeaches and of course if the most distant banks of the Mississippi are 110 miles apart, that in no way means that the river itself was ever 110 miles wide. Either bank could, and probably was, created by the river moving back and forth as it does.
Very wide very flat areas next to a river are not riverbanks. That is a flood plain.
Wow! Paul throws down
33:57 limestone forms from calcium carbonate fossils, diatoms aren't composed of calcium carbonate. They're made from silica and form an entirely different kind of sediment
Forest, I’d love to see you wait for his video to come out on his channel and then do a follow up debunking that would be quite interesting
Giant ripples... like what earthquakes do?
Aron Ra made a great series disproving the Flood through biology, geology, mythology, and more. Cannot recommend it enough.
The problem with callers like this is that Forrest and Paulogia state they are not geology experts but they will have discussed this issue many times in the past so they know enough to know it’s nonsense but this caller believes he is an expert on this because he has googled all the creationist nonsense websites on this topic so he believes he can explain and school them both with his superior knowledge and expertise.
Heat problem. Try again, unless you're gonna appeal to a miracle, to which then your argument is invalid scientifically.
It all really does *boil* down to the heat problem eventually, doesn't it.
(Nonbinary dad joke)
Hot take the flood never happened
Spicy!
Dude hasn't seen a conspiracy he doesn't believe.
Why does this guy seem so PROUD of his ignorance? It’s baffling.
The Willamette Valley, where I live, is wide and flat, and one of the most fertile places in the world, specifically because of the repeated (more than 40) massive floods, up to 1200 feet deep, that came down the Columbia River from Canada and Idaho, across Eastern Washington, through the Wallula Gap, backed up in the Willamette Valley, and out to the Pacific, during the Ice Age (18,000 years ago, 60,000 years ago, 120,000 years ago, etc, up to a million years ago.
The water came from the melting ice sheet covering Canada, etc, and the beaches were approximately 200 feet lower than current sea levels, globally, because of the mile high ice sheet covering the upper latitudes.
Lol, wait! More than half the earth is covered in water... so we've been flooded this whole time and no one told me?!?!
Thanks for what y'all do ✌️🧡
"goes to Google Earth" which is designed around the knowledge of PROFESSIONAL GEOLOGISTS GEOGRAPHERS and other people that know earth stuff.
I am a geologist, I wasn’t specifically trained on river geomorphology but I do remember from first year how sea level changes and erosion cause the low lying areas which river deltas form in.
One of the reasons for river deltas given existing coastal planes is indeed flooding we can see recent examples all over the place of flooding over filling entire flood plains and recarving new river channels.
In 1955 the river which runs near my house was briefly among the highest volume output rivers on earth (it is estimated to have output close to 1/2 the average flow rate of the Amazon river for a few days) and its width usually about
Great job, Forrest and Paul! The guy literally quotes AIG a number of times, yet yells, 'I'm not making a religious argument'!, lol. 👍🏼💙💖💙💝💙🥰✌
By the power of Google! Dunning Kruger powers activate!!
If you have a theory that you believe will shake foundations, then you best be ready for push back.
It's unreasonable to expect anyone to agree unconditionally when you throw a major conflicting claim at them.
It actually makes sense he doesn't understand if he skipped the "boring" stuff. Basically, I skipped the fundamentals.
Can you imagine having to sit next to this dude at the family gathering. “No uncle, tinfoil hats are not wedding attire…”
I'd be laughing the whole time.
If all of the fossils were created during the global flood, why is it that we never find fossillized lobsters buried right alongside trilobite fossils? Why is it that we never find fossilized horses or bovids in the same strata as fossilized maiasaurids?
When most of ancient human lived with walking distance of a river. A localized 100 year flood like as seen in 1993 upper Mississippi/ missouri river systems would have dramatically affected the life of all people on it.
People would tell stories of this great calamity and when they meet other people I bet they shared stories and realized "oh you had a scary flood too"
Thus world wide flood mythology is born in the near east
Name one non relgious university geology department that teaches a worldwide flood 6000 years ago. There are over 6000 universities worldwide with geology departments.
You know what, I'm inclined to suggest *again* to callers that rather than claiming knowledge on some call in show, that they instead *sue in court* . If you can prove what you say *do it* . Overturn the system of knowledge that we are teaching to people. Your unwillingness to actually *demonstrate a coherent idea* is proof enough that you are aware you are lying.
The courts are already overloaded with BS claimants as it is, I don't think they'd appreciate even more of them filing nuisance lawsuits against math teachers who "dare" to "lie" that 2+2=4..
No, what we _need_ is for more debatemebros to turn into don'ttasemebros. Now THAT would benefit everybody.
I dont think such a suit could realistically be sought. There generally has to be standing and damages that can be demonstrated before a suit can proceed.
@ I disagree, at least provided it was something that is taught in public schools. You’d only need a parent with child in the school to be a party.
Otherwise, *publish* your proof! No one who only argues against science online is anything but a crank.
@@graladue courts cant adjudicate science. How would this work? Say i have solid evidence the world was flat. How can i as a parent get a court to take that case against a school? Where are the damages? How am i harmed tangibly by the school not teaching my evidence or interpretation of the evidence? How is a jury going to adjudicate which version is correct? The scopes monkey trial tends to imply that a jury of one’s peers is willing to disregard science in favor of the state or broader cultural interest.
I agree with the spirit of your post though, the journals are just the proper ground for testing ideas (for the most part).
@@Typexviiib Dover vs Kitzmuller says otherwise. If you have provable science, you can more or less sue to include it in the science curriculum. They tried with Intelligent Design and lost.
That could be a local flood? Also, humans were on earth for around 300,000
what was his actual argument?
That straight and wide rivers prove a flood?
From what I can tell, it amounts to 'all geological features prove a global flood because I say so'.
If he wants to claim these large river beds show 'massive drainage' - he now has to tell us where the water has drained to. Because if it's the water that exists in the sea now - then that clearly hasn't drained off the continents.
And if you cannot pronounce Mauritania you can't take him seriously. He's trying to pretend sand dunes are 'ripples'. He's proof that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing - and it usually bites you in the backside.
👏🖖
@@yippieskippy2971
live long and prosper.
The actual argument was this:
"When I'm in church, the guy holding the bible can say whatever and I am required to believe it and I do so happily. I am holding the bible now, and I am saying stupid shit, which means you are now required to happily believe whatever I say. Why isn't this working? You're just evil or something, that has to be it. At least I can spread the Word on the teevees through the innernets on your show and reveal the Truth(tm)!" Don't look for sense in people who are completely delusional from infancy. He's trying to preach, not convince, not argue.
@@EdwardHowton
true.
@@EdwardHowton And the thing that he is here to do the absolute least is learn. He quit geology because it's boring, but he claims to know what information is not contained within the geology textbook.
So he was too bored to learn geology, but he wasn't too bored to scour the entirety of plural books on the subject in order to check that they omit a topic he does care about? Yeah, that's believable.
Caller: Have you heard of rivers?
Me: Have you heard of there was no global flood?
Also me: Theists are just ruled by the paradigm of if they believe nonsense hard enough they won't ever die.
So this is PERSONAL to him. It’s ego-driven. It’s about his drive towards manhood. There. I said it.
not even 10 min int a 42 min convo "wHatEveR yoU'Re goNNa sAy iS nOnseNSe"
wow. just... wow.
Honestly, they gave this guy WAY too much time. He's well past indoctrinated.
Ask Jonathon if he thinks all those craters on the Moon were made at the same time.
Dude would probably say the moon is an illusion and the Earth is flat or someshit.
Well I learned what potamology and limnology are from this video, never heard of them before. Thank you Forrest!
- a global flood, folks!
- what caused that flood, Jonathan?
- God.
- What is the g0d?
- Well... ahhkchoolee...
- Come on, man. Feel free to demonstrate the g0d. THEN we might have a chance to investigate whether it did cause a global flood. And how. And if it can and did cause a global flood then we'll start wondering: Why the g0d does not cause 1 rainy day in any area ruined by drought.
(another way this chat could have gone)
Jonathan started at step 2 (making a claim about the action of a deity), then he went on, and was wrong all the way.
This conversation should have ended when the caller admitted HE DIDN'T EVEN KNOW WHEN THE FLOOD WAS! WTF? How can you claim to be an expert on something then not know something as fundamental as when it was?
28:13 😆 are the oil companies out here just praying to the lord 🙏 for oil?
Gutsick Gibbon likes to point out that one such company did precisely that! Zion Oil & Gas. If I'm reading the Wikipedia entry correctly, after constantly digging in the wrong places and finding nothing they made (an increase over the previous year!) a _whopping_ negative seven million US dollars in 2023, have 25 million in assets, and have 22 employees. Imagine an oil company _losing_ money and being delisted on NASDAQ. Money laundering is alive and well I guess. 22 people sharing seven million isn't a terrible con; sharing a free 300k for doing nothing, just by scamming people's donations for Jesus?
Zion Oil and Gas drills in Israel based on Christian Zionist beliefs and has failed to find any viable oil reserves.
Being a curious sort, I did a quick search for the Guadeloupe woman. I managed to turn up an article where it goes through the finding of the skeleton, the extraction and relocation of, initial hypothesis of origin. It then goes on to refute the original hypothesis with evidence like 1) the bone wasn't fossilized and still contained organic materials, 2) the stone was misidentified as marble instead of the limestone it was, suggesting it was older on inspection than it is, and 3) other marine organism shells were found in the stone matrix, were complete enough for identification, and pointed to a far far far more recent burial than 'ancient'. Oops.
It is amazing what even just 5 minutes of researching can do.
Did he really say at 18:00 roughly that all of the earliest fish are underwater like it was a gotcha proving a flood 😂
The arrogance is astounding
He should take a look at some of the rivers in Australia. There are rivers that have no water in them at all. Wonder why that is.
God used a big straw.
It's just wild how folks like this think. The logic of "even if I'm correct "trust me bro" is good enough evidence for everyone to believe me".
a global flood would prove a global flood. We still would not know how magic happens or what a deity even is.
Jonathan: "Catastrophism should be seriously considered."
Well, I, for one, consider his arrogant mannerism to be an example of individual-scale catastrophism.
The only bone I'd throw him on this: "Catastrophism" occurs in isolated instances (East Oregon badlands, Black Sea flood, nothing world-wide). Otherwise, uniformitarianism rules.
Dunning-Kruger strikes again.
No, there are no human footprints occurring with the dinosaur trackway in the Paluxy River. There are carved fakes; there are eroded dino prints. I have waded in the Paluxy River and examined the dinosaur trackway.--Dr. Sharon Diehl, geochemist, geologist, evolutionary biologist.
You are awesome in your patience with the young-earth creationists.
I really did a double take when the caller asked about why he didn’t se limestone accumulation at the sea floor when walking on the beach at 25:00. Does he hear himself or does he listen as little to himself as he does Paul and Forrest?
Dunning Kruger channel...how do you guys not scream at these callers... lol!
Closed minded person complains people who don’t agree with him are closed minded.
Guadalupe woman was encased in beach rock and the best estimates put her around 2k years old. The formation is not dissimilar to that which the “bimini road” is made out of. Lime bearing stone has been observed to form quickly in tropical and semi tropical tidal zones with abundant calcium sources:
Also, sharks are older than trees, if we are talking about broad clades in evolutionary history.
Poor you guys.... you must feel so fed up with people who are like : '' yeah, yeah!! I have studied this shit'', then go on to say that professionals don't know about their field of work...HONESTLY!
The nerve of that guy to plead for them to be "open minded" when every alternate suggestion offered by the hosts was answered with an emphatic "NO" without any consideration by him.
I hadn't heard this "every river in the world has wider banks than it needs, therefore global flood" argument before! Brilliant, lols.
_Rivers all over the earth experience flooding._
_Therefore all rivers must have flooded simultaneously in a single worldwide event._
Can't imagine why any geologist wouldn't accept that.
This explsins why china and India are kicking our ass sidways in academics.
And explained how that Scammer got elected in the US.
“there are lots of rivers, so , I must be right"
38:50 "Anybody can discover something" Yes, make some field studies, write down your methods, discoveries and conclusions, get it peer reviewed and claim your Nobel prize. Don't call in into atheist shows.
He doesn't study anything he watches whack-a-doodle TH-cam videos