I've heard of "Junk Volume" being similar to the boiling point of water. Once you hit 212 Fahrenheit, any additional heat is unnecessary. The water is already boiling.
Junk volume is a phrase every athlete should know. I used to powerlift and there was no point trying to kill rows after doing a 95% plus triple or so on deadlifts. You're limp, CNS is cooked and you're just running through the motions at that point.
A lot of it depends on if you’re on gear. As a natural, I can only recover from 10 to 12 hard sets to failure(or close) per workout. But if someone is running a gram of test a week they can recover from damn near anything and the phrase junk volume applies much less . There still is diminishing returns, but the recovery on gear or not is so fundamentally different.
@@marshalfrancis3353If you calculate your previous 1 RM and you’re close or at the end of the program, it might very well be 95 % (of the previous 1 rm) for a triple. It really comes down to whether you’re a beginner/ novice or more advanced.
I never heard of junk volume before, but it makes a lot of sense! This guys channel is very very educational. He seems like a very intelligent, honest guy.
I do a PPL, 2-3 exercises per muscle group to failure, I actually feel better with just the 2 , going 3 ,in retrospect, is just what he said,, junk volume , ive learned so much from this man AND the comments, I thank you All
Ok, for chestflat bench and flyes, triceps...close grip bench press and skull crushers ,, shoulders military press behind head and side raises ... that's my push,.. Pull is bent over rows . Then dumbell rows , dumbell curls and curlbar . Legs,, squats front and back, calf raise standing, day off and then I'll switch up...push Day, incline bench, incline flyes, triceps press with dumbells , close grip push ups, pull day. Lat pulldowns, rows, preacher curls, cable curls, legs, leg press seated calf raise,, I do abs on leg day.... after each day of rest I just try to switch up ...
Set quality matters too (as do a bunch of other things) - Range of Motion (RoM) - Technique - Time under tension (TUT) - Reps in reserve (RiR) (I only know this mostly because of Dr. Mike and too much time on the NiH website).
How true, Dr. Mike. Think we have all been down that road before where we are so enthusiastic we add sets and exercises until we are doing way too much. In short order we begin feeling tired and worn out all the time and start dreading workouts. Today, if I can grow with less, I do not succumb to the school of thought. "more is always better." I may substitute exercises over time but try to keep the overall total fixed. How I feel after a workout is a pretty good indicator of how much I should be doing and my progress.
He said 1 set is quite beneficial for a beginner and you'd be surprised I think most people either barely train or they definitely train too much and it's junk volume or just cardio with weights
@@ayasha89games66 Reading comprehension goes a long way, he was being sarcastic because by doing that much sets/reps is like doing cardio with the weights...
Warm is cardio right? I want to work out and not waste time (meaning I don’t want to put into work that may be too much for results. I can wait for five years to see muscle growth, but I want to do it rifht
@@robertoperez9495warm-up is a set before you do your working set, the heavier an exercise is the more warm-up sets you'll be doing to get closer to the weight ideally of your working set. Warm-up sets are utilized to prime the central nervous system to understand the motion of the exercise and also to lubricate the joints properly to minimize the risk of an injury. Some people count warm-up sets in their total working volume, like saying I've done 4 sets, but the first one was most likely a warm-up set. I don't include them or count them.
@@immersiveparadoxso should I do a warm up set to failure? And ideally how much weight does our warm up set must be relative to our real set which we are going to do
I am 68 years old ! I used to own gyms and competed in Bodybuilding until I started to train my Wife who was very successful in The 80’s. I have found that nothing is written in stone when it comes to training and everyone responds differently. Look at Steve Michalik and John Defendis who did an incredible amounts of sets and John still works out that way today and looks great !
I am 67. I do three sets; progressive ladder 🪜 up adding weight with 10,8,6 repetitions. I do two different exercises for each muscle group. I do a 90/10 ratio with more machine than free weights. My goal is to mitigate loss of muscle strength and avoid injury. I take whey protein supplements. I exercise every other day; therefore I go to the gym four times a week.
Have you considered adding creatine. I take five grams a day and I am never hurting after my sessions I go like you 4 or 5 times a week for 5 hours some days. Creatine is about the same price as protein powder
I do three sets of 10 and 6 max exercises for each section of my body, so I'm (trying to) work 6/7 days. so example on Monday, I do arms and I do at least 2 for biceps and 2 for triceps, but I go from one muscle group to the other and repeat so there's almost like a 10 minute rest between each group. Rinse and repeat till rest day on Sunday. So far it's been working and even managed to go up a plate for certain exercises
Off season for me is winter time. When I’m wearing a lot of clothes. I’ll do 16 sets per large muscle group (quads, chest, back), 14 sets for delts, and 12 sets for smaller muscle groups like bis, tris, hams, quads. I’ll do a little abs every day. During the summer are tank top months. I’ll do 20 sets large, 16 sets small. 18 for delts. I get huge but I can only sustain this much volume for 4 months. Then my tendons start to ache. I’m 52. During my tank top months, I’ll do 150 minutes of steady state cardio per week to bring out the abs. There you have it.
So fking true about the nervous system. Even when your not recovered the next day you dont feel pumped. Muscles not expanding. Your just working out and see no changes. Your gased out of muscle building energy.
Totally agree, I have fibromyalgia and osteoarthritis, I haven't trained for 9 months because I've had a lot of work to do on my new(old) flat(apartment) I can't do both, and when I say train, it's picking the weights up when I can throughout the week. I'm on hrt, so not a natty, although I've always naturally been a big strong guy, I worked in construction all my life and grafted like a machine, but I'm now retired due to my illness. But gains are still possible with the right diet and obv the trt, although I never really found putting on mass a problem(especially the belly mass🙄) My work in my new home is just about done now, so I'll be lifting gently again soon, I can't manage anything without the T, I wouldn't recommend it if you have no real reason for it, but I did some research and it turns out roids really help with fibro. I'm not oversized because I'm limited with how much and what my body can cope with, but I'm in reasonably decent shape, just need to shift the pregnant look again now😂😂 Love your vids guys, I'm not able to afford a gym or paid program, I just do what I can and my cuz @Michael Thomas Adams gives me advice, he's a beast, and my best friend as well as my cuz and always gives me advice ❤
I feel like I’m in the same boat as you , I’m an older dude and the inflammation was so bad last week that I barely made it thru my work out , joints were screaming and I had to cut back on the weight, I did some research but couldn’t find much - would the trt help with inflammation and joint pain ? Is this something you were going through? Thanks in advance 😊
Pareto Principle and Diminishing Returns. This is how both minimalists/volumists can be simultaneously right and wrong at the same time. Set 1 yields about 50% of results. Set 2 yields about 25% of results. Set 3 yields about 13% of results. Set 4 yields about 6% of results. Set 5 yields about 3% of results. Set 6 yields about 2% of results. Set 7 yields about 1% of results.
Once your nervous system starts to deteriorate that's when it may be best to consider either longer periods of rest between sets or if you feel you need to get your entire exercise done in the day, divide up the harder sets from the easier ones so you recover better.
@@ralphbryanpalma3317 That's a hard one, depends on the goal. When I was younger, I'd work out everyday for 4-6 hrs. I changed fast, gained fast. So your goals are important. I believe, after long study, that rest is actually a disguise of the body to try to get back to 'default' (that's a whole other talk). The key is to engage the body so it never gets there, and ultimately you change that default, from 'default'. Intensity does that best. If I could offer you something special, I'd say get an attitude toward what's possible via what's impossible. Your muscles want to reset to no action. YOU tell your body, each muscle, how it's going to be. If you go to failure, dip the weight and exaggerate the movement into a slower motion, more exact. But again, your goals are important in this. Upon reaching failure, lower the weight so you can add perhaps half a set to the reps, or more, and tighten to the point of cramping the muscle. When you get there, hold for one full second and during that second, increase that cramp through the full hold. So you cramp and then enhance that cramp during the hold. You do cramp more but discomfort, not pain itself (there's a difference), is what causes change. When you body/muscle says stop, that's the BEGINNING. Stop and you will struggle with gains and strength. Remember, signals of weakness come from that default. To eliminate it, you have to push it up to move the default up. That's why when you take a week off instead of a day, you find weight heavier than prior times. Shorter rests between stresses keeps the default at bay, and keeps you above it.
@@nekki9228 Not at all. That period was short. I was never a "bodybuilder" but used techniques from multi sources. That particular stage was to gain strength, and other things I won't talk abt here. I keep that part to myself b/c most don't understand the engineering of the body or each piece's responsibility to how it all comes together. I'll support it if ppl figure it out, that's still missing. So the waste of time (albeit with the laugh) tells me you are on the other end of the spectrum, and COMPLETELY out of the loop. Now, you are capable of finding the insight needed to find the value of what I've alluded to. However, why would you search for the treasure when you take a sth.ent and conclude it's a waste of time. It's not. So, like I tell all "know-it-alls", do yourself a favor and don't teach the ones you love what success is. You can't know it. But if you need somebody to do your job for ya, my 40-year body of Work will be available soon. I'd suggest you study. New World is Coming. If you're still Sleepin' when I get to you, it'll be a very rude Awakening. Little hint?? Power and Force have little to do with weights. So what did you just learn abt what I made elusive? Wakey, wakey! I'll be Seein' ya...!
I occasionally use exhaustive training followed by higher velocity lower resistance stuff specifically and hypothetically, to develop the nervous system and increase glycogen store volume. So that I can maintain high velocity and force even in the exhausted state.
We did not deserve anything to begin with. Allah gave us all blessings and we're in a test world now. The believers and doers of good deeds will go to Heaven and; on believers and doers of wrong deeds will go to Hell. Allah says so in Holy Qoran.
I used to do too much volume just to get monster pumps and hang out with my bros for longer. I stuck to a strict routine with lower volume, I feel much better, and started making progress AGAIN.
We just want to stimulate and activate our muscles to grow, that can be done for most people with 2 to 3 good to failure sets, the body only has so much material to work with so split up body parts and take 2 to 3 days off between sessions for optimal recovery and growth......
I've been watching these for weeks and still have no idea how to better work out. I guess it's somewhere between "don't kill yourself" and "you're not pushing yourself hard enough, you're not doing anything" That, push toward death, but listen to your body.
It is literally about understanding your body. The general idea in weight lifting is to stimulate your muscles for growth. If your goals align with Dr. Mike, you want size. That's what he talks about most. If you want endurance, that's a different training altogether. General health also doesn't focus heavily on hypertrophy. Getting into the gym and doing some sets as a beginner is overall going to help you. The nuances come while you learn how to lift and how your body responds. Watch stuff about proper form and workout routines. These lectures are more about the philosophy of weight lifting and the finer details of hypertrophy. This stuff is good to know, but as a beginner, you'll make gains doing minimal work by comparison to advanced lifters. Don't rush, and enjoy the training.
Junk Volume is researchable in the literature metabolic stress and the lower repetition/meaningful work Dr.Mike is referring to is researchable as mechanical stress.
Weekly (or 8 days even) is a great benchmark. 20-30 total weekly sets for back and chest, 12-18 total weekly sets for bi/tri/delts. Legs are more particular for each person.
It’s true to a point. You just have to find that perfect amount for you and where you are physically. Like the old school guys that hit chest on Monday and kill it with 20 sets. Honestly how many of those sets are just worthless as far as hypertrophy goes? It’s like filling a glass with water. Once it gets to the top you can keep pouring but it’s already full.
I can feel when this happens. Usually it’s after around 9-10 working sets. It’s how I decide I’m going to keep going or I’m done working out and hit the showers. Not interested in wasting time and fatigue on junk reps that I can’t even complete with good form just to say I did it or to hit a number.
The nervous system one is true, I feel it when even tho I'm doing proper form and rom I don't feel the targeted muscle group working as it did before. I really feel this on chest, and quads. If I continue I just do "junk reps" meaning I'm not really using the intented muscles to finish the reps.
I do 3 sets of 2 excersices for each muscle group but I push hard and concentrate on contracting the muscle. I've been training almost 20 years and this works for me. Every now and then I will do 3 sets of 3 excersices. I train arms and shoulders 2x per week and everything else once. When i first started I would do alot more volume but I find I don't need that anymore. To each his own but short and intense workouts are the key. No need to spend hours and hours in the gym.
True. By the time I’ve gotten to chest flies, I’ve already done bench, incline, and dumbbell bench. I can barely feel it when I do flies because my chest is destroyed.
This is why mike mentzers program is the best. You will only perform few sets but it will absolutly destroy your muscle and signal to the body to grow. Combining Menzter philosophy with variation has been a game changer for me.
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8-10 is great for me per session for bigger groups and after that 6 isolations for smaller. For example, Push day 3, 3, 2 (sometimes 2 more) for chest then 3, 2 for shoulders and 3, 3 for triceps. Same for Pull day. Leg day is story for itself 😁
So the answer according to Jeff is 6-8, per muscle. And that’s usually 2 exercises so for chest that’s a press and a fly, (4 sets each) or incline press, press and fly (2-3 sets each)
I train biceps twice a week and do cable curls for 4 sets with preacher curl for 4 sets on one day then on the other the same cable curl for 4 sets but then do incline dB curls for 4 sets all to failure or ctf
I typically train closer to Mike Mentzers style of training. I switch up every couple weeks and have a week where I focus on isolations rather compounds. I see gains in something almost every week and I only train twice a week. Upper one day and lower and the other end of the week. It makes me laugh when I see people down the gym every single day, I go twice a week and we seem to progress at the same speeds 😂
The idea of junk volume would only be apparent to muscles that respond to moderate stimulation; however, any muscle that is stubborn to stimulation could benefit from lots of volume until there is a definite response. Before you say anything, he referred to the biceps and chest. These two muscles would only benefit some people from doing a small amount of volume due to potential shoulder or elbow injuries over time. If we were referring to calves and possible rear delts or triceps, that would be an entirely different conversation; know thy muscles!
I really want to learn more about the nervous system and how it can supposedly take over from muscle fibres doing the work. Does it just recruit every possible accessory muscle to contribute?
Geez...this indicates that I'm doing a LOT of "junk reps". I'm 62, have been lifting for ~40 years, and have a 6 day gym schedule (upper body push, upper body pull, legs/back X2). But I'm finding I just don't have the energy to keep up this schedule, so recently dropped to a 5 day schedule (only doing leg/back once/wk). I've been doing WAY MORE sets (for upper body) than the limit of 15 indicated by Dr. Mike: Sets per muscle group per session Chest: 18 Shoulder: 20 Traps: 6 Bicep: 23 Tricep: 24 I'm going to reduce my sets, and see how I feel.
24 sets for triceps and 23 sets for biceps. My god! Do 15 sets for bigger muscle groups and 9-12 sets for smaller muscle groups. If your bodybuilding rather than powerlifting do 3 sets per exercise, 8-12 reps and pyramid by adding 5-10 lbs on each set.
Thats a lot of volume. Legs chest back max 9 hard sets close to technical failure. Shoulders and arms max 6 hard sets. I couldnt do anything more. If I dont have a pump after 6 hard sets I rather go home.
I do 3 sets per exercise, 8-12 reps and pyramid by adding 5-10 lbs to each set. 60-90 second rest periods in between sets. I have a little timer I use that I can clip on. 45-60 minute workout. For bigger muscle groups I do 15 sets total, 5 exercises. For smaller muscle groups I do 9-12 sets, 3-4 exercises. Hit each muscle group once a week.
How is this possible? Give me an example with, say, chest as a muscle group. You do FIVE exercises of 3x12 reps on that one group in a session?! Say you did bench then incline bench. You've lifted heavy through at least 60 reps. You're gonna go do flyes after that? Wtf? You can't be lifting heavy enough.
I do flat bench, incline bench, flyes, decline bench and peck deck. 1 warm up + 3 working sets for each exercise. I've been doing variations of this for 2 years and I've seen reasonably good gains, but I'm definitely considering reducing the volume a bit. @anthonyreed480
I always wonder as a construction(concrete) worker am i doing myself a disservice by going to the gym after working 10+ hours and being completely drained and fatigued?. I try to go 3-4 times a week but some days i just feel like I'm doing more damage then good
I Can do 6 sets of commons that are myo rep match split between 2 excersizes. and then I can do 2 isolation excersizes for 1 of the muscles in the group and another excersize for the other. I Do all these with myo rep match and 1 excersize gets 2 Dropsets. But that's the max I can do for 1 muscle group in 1 day. But if I do this every day, I have to take a week off after 4 weeks. Better for me to do a little bit less and keep going for 6 to 8 weeks before deloading
Why wouldn’t you do even less so you never have to deload? Unless your deload is only 2 to 4 days, you would theoretically grow more training less and never doing the deload. This is purely because of the diminishing returns on volume (stimulus for the first set of a muscle in a session is doubled after 5 more sets, so doing half the volume is way more than half the stimulus)
@@smallfry7304 ah! Good reply /answer! That's easy. Because to train lighter I have to train to like 2 rir. Which I have amazing difficulty judging and it's somehow more mentally taxing to me than going to fail. I also just enjoy it a lot more XD But I understand your point and i tried it, but it was hard to keep myself going to the gym because of the lack of "fun" I was having. This is just something that works for me personally. Not something I would recommend as a go to solution for others. Because I understand it isn't the most healthy nor the most efficient
Well Jack Lelange(sp not sure) he suggest that reps per age should be the focus, an he would suggest about 250 reps per exercise each day to keep muscles strong.
This is where I disagree with a lot of influences, he said training biceps every day is a good way to grow. Your muscles don't grow in the gym, they grow at home when you are resting. The way I train I need way more than 24 hours to recover, I know Mike Mentzer wasn't perfect but following his philosophy of higher intensity and more rest days works well for me.
How much volume can you do if you treat food as purely fuel for the machine and dedicate 12 hours in the day to ensure you get 10 or more hours of sleep using additional power naps? Imagine lifting at the gym, eating an intra workout meal and then taking a 30 minute nap in your car and then going back in for another hour. Just using every little trick in the book to squeeze out more recovery and therefore gains.
I’ve kind of experienced this, once I know for a fact it ain’t workin’, I leave, very new to the gym though, so could be completely wrong about it being junk volume
1 easy set to warm up. Another easy to mid set to oil the engine to get started. Follow by just 1 working set (11 to 13 reps to failure) is what 97% of all people need. If you all of a sudden can do 15 reps, then increase the weight so you fall back to 13 reps max.
This guy is quite good with advice man. Idk much about the scientific aspects of weight training but I’ve trained a big portion of my life. At age 50… I look quite good and what he says, I’ve actually witnessed with my body. It’s like your muscles are done DONE man. You are working in fatigue mode and the body is broken and just trying to robotically get it done with. Then once you take 3-4 days off of training…. Man… you tend the chisel out, as long as the diet is pretty tight. It’s crazy.
Yeah Past a point its bad for your muscles to continue going, but ive found if you stop before injury but push as hard as you can using med weight 50 lbs dumbells until your arms feel like baloons that are about to pop focusing on getting the most intense pump while doing drop sets and doing it daily that your arms adjust to doing it an you just get stronger unless your not resting and eating right. when it comes to doing to much hell i enjoy what these people are calling cardio with the weights because at a certain point you get high off the adrenaline and fatigue.
12-15 per muscle is way too much. If you are pushing hard there is no way you are getting to 12-15 per muscle group without feeling like you’re going to explode from the pump. I push extremely hard and I do 9 sets per muscle, 18 in total per workout, but realistically, I could probably get away with 6 or so. My pump is crazy and my muscles are exhausted after 2 or 3 sets because I push so hard, but I just keep going because, that’s what we do right?
Wow, thank you so much for completing this FFVI WP! I started playing it about 14 years ago on an emulator but never finished it. I got to Zozo and my brother deleted computer files and I was devastated. Fortunately, you covered the game far better than I could and it was a pleasure to watch. I’ve been a fan of yours since 2012 and appreciate all the effort you put into making your LPs. Keep it up WP 👍
I used to do around 30 to 40 sets per workout per muscle group when i first started due to massive self hate. Now i do aroind 16 to 24 sets per muscle group due to slightly less self hate and muscle strain.
Everything is clear to me just the exercises for the back are very confusing to me. I know the back is a large muscle and id like to train it twice per week. So logically i created a program of 4 exercises with 3 sets each which brings it to 12 sets for that day. So 24 sets per week. Which i know its large but the back has a lot of muscles and i need to target all of them effectively
I've heard of "Junk Volume" being similar to the boiling point of water. Once you hit 212 Fahrenheit, any additional heat is unnecessary. The water is already boiling.
This was an awesome explanation! Need to find when the water is boiling 👌 im taking this mindset into the gym
Great analogy!
🤔 Wow.
Yeah. It doesn't boil more faster or hotter anymore 😂
Celsius*
Junk volume is a phrase every athlete should know. I used to powerlift and there was no point trying to kill rows after doing a 95% plus triple or so on deadlifts. You're limp, CNS is cooked and you're just running through the motions at that point.
Fk did you just say
A lot of it depends on if you’re on gear. As a natural, I can only recover from 10 to 12 hard sets to failure(or close) per workout.
But if someone is running a gram of test a week they can recover from damn near anything and the phrase junk volume applies much less .
There still is diminishing returns, but the recovery on gear or not is so fundamentally different.
@@kcmacneil9008haha yeah right. 95% is not a triple anymore 😂😂😂
@@marshalfrancis3353If you calculate your previous 1 RM and you’re close or at the end of the program, it might very well be 95 % (of the previous 1 rm) for a triple. It really comes down to whether you’re a beginner/ novice or more advanced.
@@bobbarker399 true. Actually right. Didn't even think of that.
mike reminds me of my favourite teacher and most influential person in my life. i missed that energy in my life
Yes he reminds me heavily of one of my current professors
hany, mikeseviltwin mod is that u? lmao
I never heard of junk volume before, but it makes a lot of sense! This guys channel is very very educational. He seems like a very intelligent, honest guy.
Definitely one of the persons to follow if you lift.
I do a PPL, 2-3 exercises per muscle group to failure, I actually feel better with just the 2 , going 3 ,in retrospect, is just what he said,, junk volume , ive learned so much from this man AND the comments, I thank you All
So what do you actually do? How many sets per exercise?
Please share your routine. Thankyou
I do PPL 6 sets per muscle group not sure if its optimal but feels good for me
Ok, for chestflat bench and flyes, triceps...close grip bench press and skull crushers ,, shoulders military press behind head and side raises ... that's my push,..
Pull is bent over rows . Then dumbell rows , dumbell curls and curlbar . Legs,, squats front and back, calf raise standing, day off and then I'll switch up...push Day, incline bench, incline flyes, triceps press with dumbells , close grip push ups, pull day. Lat pulldowns, rows, preacher curls, cable curls, legs, leg press seated calf raise,, I do abs on leg day.... after each day of rest I just try to switch up ...
Definitely optimal👍@@cam-moron1610
W short, I was looking exactly for this
Set quality matters too (as do a bunch of other things)
- Range of Motion (RoM)
- Technique
- Time under tension (TUT)
- Reps in reserve (RiR)
(I only know this mostly because of Dr. Mike and too much time on the NiH website).
Tut is useless.
@@bbsingh7554 several studies listed on the NiH NLM would say otherwise.
@@bbsingh7554RIR even more so. 90% of lifters have no idea how much they truly have in tank.
TuT is a bit outdated as a metric. Your time-pet-rep doesn't seem to matter so much as long as you're controlling the negative and getting a full RoM
@@BrendorTheEndorso is reps in reserve
How true, Dr. Mike. Think we have all been down that road before where we are so enthusiastic we add sets and exercises until we are doing way too much. In short order we begin feeling tired and worn out all the time and start dreading workouts. Today, if I can grow with less, I do not succumb to the school of thought. "more is always better." I may substitute exercises over time but try to keep the overall total fixed. How I feel after a workout is a pretty good indicator of how much I should be doing and my progress.
This information is deep but most people do not work that hard.
He said 1 set is quite beneficial for a beginner and you'd be surprised I think most people either barely train or they definitely train too much and it's junk volume or just cardio with weights
@@JulioSanchez-jr2rlokay but is junk volume a bad thing? It's not costing you gains 😂I say let em go hard and go home
@@ayasha89games66 Reading comprehension goes a long way, he was being sarcastic because by doing that much sets/reps is like doing cardio with the weights...
@@MercNinja it’s an efficiency thing but if you have the time why not?
@@ayasha89games66think a bit harder buddy, you’ll get there
I do like 4 exercises per muscle group at about 3 working sets with one warm up set . Been seeing great results.
Most people miss that warm up set and just jump in the deep end.
Warm is cardio right? I want to work out and not waste time (meaning I don’t want to put into work that may be too much for results. I can wait for five years to see muscle growth, but I want to do it rifht
@@robertoperez9495warm-up is a set before you do your working set, the heavier an exercise is the more warm-up sets you'll be doing to get closer to the weight ideally of your working set.
Warm-up sets are utilized to prime the central nervous system to understand the motion of the exercise and also to lubricate the joints properly to minimize the risk of an injury.
Some people count warm-up sets in their total working volume, like saying I've done 4 sets, but the first one was most likely a warm-up set. I don't include them or count them.
How many times per week or what frequency
@@immersiveparadoxso should I do a warm up set to failure? And ideally how much weight does our warm up set must be relative to our real set which we are going to do
I am 68 years old ! I used to own gyms and competed in Bodybuilding until I started to train my Wife who was very successful in The 80’s. I have found that nothing is written in stone when it comes to training and everyone responds differently. Look at Steve Michalik and John Defendis who did an incredible amounts of sets and John still works out that way today and looks great !
Mike mentzer once said those who overtrain and get good results mostly use steroids to compensate
@ LMAO - Kind of hypocritical statement by Him ! Don’t you think because He used steroids too ?
I am 67. I do three sets; progressive ladder 🪜 up adding weight with 10,8,6 repetitions. I do two different exercises for each muscle group. I do a 90/10 ratio with more machine than free weights. My goal is to mitigate loss of muscle strength and avoid injury. I take whey protein supplements. I exercise every other day; therefore I go to the gym four times a week.
Have you considered adding creatine. I take five grams a day and I am never hurting after my sessions I go like you 4 or 5 times a week for 5 hours some days. Creatine is about the same price as protein powder
Love this channel! Dr. Mike is the SHIT!
Recovery is also key.
Thanks for Sharing. You make great common sense content for truly helping ppl like me.
I do three sets of 10 and 6 max exercises for each section of my body, so I'm (trying to) work 6/7 days. so example on Monday, I do arms and I do at least 2 for biceps and 2 for triceps, but I go from one muscle group to the other and repeat so there's almost like a 10 minute rest between each group. Rinse and repeat till rest day on Sunday.
So far it's been working and even managed to go up a plate for certain exercises
Off season for me is winter time. When I’m wearing a lot of clothes. I’ll do 16 sets per large muscle group (quads, chest, back), 14 sets for delts, and 12 sets for smaller muscle groups like bis, tris, hams, quads. I’ll do a little abs every day. During the summer are tank top months. I’ll do 20 sets large, 16 sets small. 18 for delts. I get huge but I can only sustain this much volume for 4 months. Then my tendons start to ache. I’m 52. During my tank top months, I’ll do 150 minutes of steady state cardio per week to bring out the abs. There you have it.
Is that per week on the sets or are you doing 16 sets for large muscle groups per workout?
Dont know what is it about this dude but he hella charismatic, its just enjoyable to listen to him
And then there are the helpful training tips too
Thanks. I needed to knpw this.
Yep! When I went above 3 sets per exercise, all I did was go through the motions. Once I went back down to 3, my results were much, much better.
Excellent Info, Doc! Thank You!
So fking true about the nervous system. Even when your not recovered the next day you dont feel pumped. Muscles not expanding. Your just working out and see no changes. Your gased out of muscle building energy.
Totally agree, I have fibromyalgia and osteoarthritis, I haven't trained for 9 months because I've had a lot of work to do on my new(old) flat(apartment) I can't do both, and when I say train, it's picking the weights up when I can throughout the week.
I'm on hrt, so not a natty, although I've always naturally been a big strong guy, I worked in construction all my life and grafted like a machine, but I'm now retired due to my illness.
But gains are still possible with the right diet and obv the trt, although I never really found putting on mass a problem(especially the belly mass🙄)
My work in my new home is just about done now, so I'll be lifting gently again soon, I can't manage anything without the T, I wouldn't recommend it if you have no real reason for it, but I did some research and it turns out roids really help with fibro.
I'm not oversized because I'm limited with how much and what my body can cope with, but I'm in reasonably decent shape, just need to shift the pregnant look again now😂😂
Love your vids guys, I'm not able to afford a gym or paid program, I just do what I can and my cuz @Michael Thomas Adams gives me advice, he's a beast, and my best friend as well as my cuz and always gives me advice ❤
I feel like I’m in the same boat as you , I’m an older dude and the inflammation was so bad last week that I barely made it thru my work out , joints were screaming and I had to cut back on the weight, I did some research but couldn’t find much - would the trt help with inflammation and joint pain ? Is this something you were going through? Thanks in advance 😊
No one has Fibromyalgia
@@shakurfaith right ok
Pareto Principle and Diminishing Returns.
This is how both minimalists/volumists can be simultaneously right and wrong at the same time.
Set 1 yields about 50% of results.
Set 2 yields about 25% of results.
Set 3 yields about 13% of results.
Set 4 yields about 6% of results.
Set 5 yields about 3% of results.
Set 6 yields about 2% of results.
Set 7 yields about 1% of results.
Once your nervous system starts to deteriorate that's when it may be best to consider either longer periods of rest between sets or if you feel you need to get your entire exercise done in the day, divide up the harder sets from the easier ones so you recover better.
The only fitness guru I listen to ❤
Excellent explanation. I find 4-6 sets, generally, works well.
is that every week or twice a week?
@@ralphbryanpalma3317 That's a hard one, depends on the goal. When I was younger, I'd work out everyday for 4-6 hrs. I changed fast, gained fast. So your goals are important. I believe, after long study, that rest is actually a disguise of the body to try to get back to 'default' (that's a whole other talk). The key is to engage the body so it never gets there, and ultimately you change that default, from 'default'. Intensity does that best. If I could offer you something special, I'd say get an attitude toward what's possible via what's impossible. Your muscles want to reset to no action. YOU tell your body, each muscle, how it's going to be. If you go to failure, dip the weight and exaggerate the movement into a slower motion, more exact. But again, your goals are important in this. Upon reaching failure, lower the weight so you can add perhaps half a set to the reps, or more, and tighten to the point of cramping the muscle. When you get there, hold for one full second and during that second, increase that cramp through the full hold. So you cramp and then enhance that cramp during the hold. You do cramp more but discomfort, not pain itself (there's a difference), is what causes change. When you body/muscle says stop, that's the BEGINNING. Stop and you will struggle with gains and strength. Remember, signals of weakness come from that default. To eliminate it, you have to push it up to move the default up. That's why when you take a week off instead of a day, you find weight heavier than prior times. Shorter rests between stresses keeps the default at bay, and keeps you above it.
@@dougmurray3692 6 hours?!?! what a waste of time lol
@@nekki9228 Not at all. That period was short. I was never a "bodybuilder" but used techniques from multi sources. That particular stage was to gain strength, and other things I won't talk abt here. I keep that part to myself b/c most don't understand the engineering of the body or each piece's responsibility to how it all comes together. I'll support it if ppl figure it out, that's still missing. So the waste of time (albeit with the laugh) tells me you are on the other end of the spectrum, and COMPLETELY out of the loop. Now, you are capable of finding the insight needed to find the value of what I've alluded to. However, why would you search for the treasure when you take a sth.ent and conclude it's a waste of time. It's not. So, like I tell all "know-it-alls", do yourself a favor and don't teach the ones you love what success is. You can't know it. But if you need somebody to do your job for ya, my 40-year body of Work will be available soon. I'd suggest you study. New World is Coming. If you're still Sleepin' when I get to you, it'll be a very rude Awakening. Little hint?? Power and Force have little to do with weights. So what did you just learn abt what I made elusive? Wakey, wakey!
I'll be Seein' ya...!
@@dougmurray3692you have no idea what you’re talking about
Love it Dr Mike
This Guy
Has great information. I have learned a lot from him.
Thank you!
I occasionally use exhaustive training followed by higher velocity lower resistance stuff specifically and hypothetically, to develop the nervous system and increase glycogen store volume. So that I can maintain high velocity and force even in the exhausted state.
We do not deserve you Dr. Mike
We did not deserve anything to begin with. Allah gave us all blessings and we're in a test world now. The believers and doers of good deeds will go to Heaven and; on believers and doers of wrong deeds will go to Hell. Allah says so in Holy Qoran.
@@Dave.Mustaine.Is.Geniuswomp womp
I used to do too much volume just to get monster pumps and hang out with my bros for longer. I stuck to a strict routine with lower volume, I feel much better, and started making progress AGAIN.
We just want to stimulate and activate our muscles to grow, that can be done for most people with 2 to 3 good to failure sets, the body only has so much material to work with so split up body parts and take 2 to 3 days off between sessions for optimal recovery and growth......
Good thing to address.
My man, you always seem to make so much sense!!!💪👌
I've been watching these for weeks and still have no idea how to better work out.
I guess it's somewhere between "don't kill yourself" and "you're not pushing yourself hard enough, you're not doing anything"
That, push toward death, but listen to your body.
It is literally about understanding your body. The general idea in weight lifting is to stimulate your muscles for growth. If your goals align with Dr. Mike, you want size. That's what he talks about most. If you want endurance, that's a different training altogether. General health also doesn't focus heavily on hypertrophy.
Getting into the gym and doing some sets as a beginner is overall going to help you. The nuances come while you learn how to lift and how your body responds. Watch stuff about proper form and workout routines. These lectures are more about the philosophy of weight lifting and the finer details of hypertrophy.
This stuff is good to know, but as a beginner, you'll make gains doing minimal work by comparison to advanced lifters. Don't rush, and enjoy the training.
That is why it makes sense to rest a day or two, or even three and then go at it again. Rest is crucial for growth
Good information. I appreciate it. And he made it through without one curse word. There is hope for him, after all. ;)
I do quality sets to failure. I only count to know where I'm at. I don't try to push to junk volume.
Junk Volume is researchable in the literature metabolic stress and the lower repetition/meaningful work Dr.Mike is referring to is researchable as mechanical stress.
I do 9 sets per muscle group and also do 1-3 warmup set before that
Weekly (or 8 days even) is a great benchmark.
20-30 total weekly sets for back and chest, 12-18 total weekly sets for bi/tri/delts. Legs are more particular for each person.
Thank you!
I upped my sets from 3 to 6 sets per session as per Mike’s advice and it was a game changer.
It’s true to a point. You just have to find that perfect amount for you and where you are physically. Like the old school guys that hit chest on Monday and kill it with 20 sets. Honestly how many of those sets are just worthless as far as hypertrophy goes? It’s like filling a glass with water. Once it gets to the top you can keep pouring but it’s already full.
I can feel when this happens. Usually it’s after around 9-10 working sets. It’s how I decide I’m going to keep going or I’m done working out and hit the showers. Not interested in wasting time and fatigue on junk reps that I can’t even complete with good form just to say I did it or to hit a number.
The nervous system one is true, I feel it when even tho I'm doing proper form and rom I don't feel the targeted muscle group working as it did before. I really feel this on chest, and quads. If I continue I just do "junk reps" meaning I'm not really using the intented muscles to finish the reps.
Totally got this Mike
I do 3 sets of 2 excersices for each muscle group but I push hard and concentrate on contracting the muscle. I've been training almost 20 years and this works for me. Every now and then I will do 3 sets of 3 excersices. I train arms and shoulders 2x per week and everything else once. When i first started I would do alot more volume but I find I don't need that anymore. To each his own but short and intense workouts are the key. No need to spend hours and hours in the gym.
True. By the time I’ve gotten to chest flies, I’ve already done bench, incline, and dumbbell bench. I can barely feel it when I do flies because my chest is destroyed.
I really wish i could comtsct this man with a gew questions
I stick to about 3-4 sets with each having about 8-12 reps. Slow, slightly increasing in volume etc. I find for me that is great!!!
He really made the one set per muscle group per day split sound enticing
This is why mike mentzers program is the best. You will only perform few sets but it will absolutly destroy your muscle and signal to the body to grow.
Combining Menzter philosophy with variation has been a game changer for me.
8-10 is great for me per session for bigger groups and after that 6 isolations for smaller.
For example, Push day 3, 3, 2 (sometimes 2 more) for chest then 3, 2 for shoulders and 3, 3 for triceps. Same for Pull day. Leg day is story for itself 😁
So u do 19 sets for just a push session total? That’s crazy
So the answer according to Jeff is 6-8, per muscle. And that’s usually 2 exercises so for chest that’s a press and a fly, (4 sets each) or incline press, press and fly (2-3 sets each)
I train biceps twice a week and do cable curls for 4 sets with preacher curl for 4 sets on one day then on the other the same cable curl for 4 sets but then do incline dB curls for 4 sets all to failure or ctf
I go to gym for 2 months then after a year. Always getting beginners gain.
He is a genius most of the time!!!!
I typically train closer to Mike Mentzers style of training. I switch up every couple weeks and have a week where I focus on isolations rather compounds. I see gains in something almost every week and I only train twice a week. Upper one day and lower and the other end of the week. It makes me laugh when I see people down the gym every single day, I go twice a week and we seem to progress at the same speeds 😂
The idea of junk volume would only be apparent to muscles that respond to moderate stimulation; however, any muscle that is stubborn to stimulation could benefit from lots of volume until there is a definite response. Before you say anything, he referred to the biceps and chest. These two muscles would only benefit some people from doing a small amount of volume due to potential shoulder or elbow injuries over time. If we were referring to calves and possible rear delts or triceps, that would be an entirely different conversation; know thy muscles!
Not about number of sets. It’s about intensity.
I really want to learn more about the nervous system and how it can supposedly take over from muscle fibres doing the work. Does it just recruit every possible accessory muscle to contribute?
Geez...this indicates that I'm doing a LOT of "junk reps". I'm 62, have been lifting for ~40 years, and have a 6 day gym schedule (upper body push, upper body pull, legs/back X2). But I'm finding I just don't have the energy to keep up this schedule, so recently dropped to a 5 day schedule (only doing leg/back once/wk). I've been doing WAY MORE sets (for upper body) than the limit of 15 indicated by Dr. Mike:
Sets per muscle group per session
Chest: 18
Shoulder: 20
Traps: 6
Bicep: 23
Tricep: 24
I'm going to reduce my sets, and see how I feel.
24 sets for triceps and 23 sets for biceps. My god! Do 15 sets for bigger muscle groups and 9-12 sets for smaller muscle groups. If your bodybuilding rather than powerlifting do 3 sets per exercise, 8-12 reps and pyramid by adding 5-10 lbs on each set.
Have you been pushing all these sets close to failure? If so, that's completely nuts.
I go to failure with each set, so I adjust the weight so that I max out somewhere in the 20-12 reps range.
*10-12 range
Thats a lot of volume. Legs chest back max 9 hard sets close to technical failure. Shoulders and arms max 6 hard sets. I couldnt do anything more. If I dont have a pump after 6 hard sets I rather go home.
I've always aimed for 5/6 sets of whatever you're aiming to gain (Strength/Size/Endurance)
I do 3 sets per exercise, 8-12 reps and pyramid by adding 5-10 lbs to each set. 60-90 second rest periods in between sets. I have a little timer I use that I can clip on. 45-60 minute workout. For bigger muscle groups I do 15 sets total, 5 exercises. For smaller muscle groups I do 9-12 sets, 3-4 exercises. Hit each muscle group once a week.
not a good system
How is this possible? Give me an example with, say, chest as a muscle group. You do FIVE exercises of 3x12 reps on that one group in a session?! Say you did bench then incline bench. You've lifted heavy through at least 60 reps. You're gonna go do flyes after that? Wtf? You can't be lifting heavy enough.
I do flat bench, incline bench, flyes, decline bench and peck deck. 1 warm up + 3 working sets for each exercise. I've been doing variations of this for 2 years and I've seen reasonably good gains, but I'm definitely considering reducing the volume a bit. @anthonyreed480
The shape of mikes head is wild
I always wonder as a construction(concrete) worker am i doing myself a disservice by going to the gym after working 10+ hours and being completely drained and fatigued?. I try to go 3-4 times a week but some days i just feel like I'm doing more damage then good
I Can do 6 sets of commons that are myo rep match split between 2 excersizes. and then I can do 2 isolation excersizes for 1 of the muscles in the group and another excersize for the other.
I Do all these with myo rep match and 1 excersize gets 2 Dropsets.
But that's the max I can do for 1 muscle group in 1 day.
But if I do this every day, I have to take a week off after 4 weeks.
Better for me to do a little bit less and keep going for 6 to 8 weeks before deloading
Why wouldn’t you do even less so you never have to deload? Unless your deload is only 2 to 4 days, you would theoretically grow more training less and never doing the deload.
This is purely because of the diminishing returns on volume (stimulus for the first set of a muscle in a session is doubled after 5 more sets, so doing half the volume is way more than half the stimulus)
@@smallfry7304 ah!
Good reply /answer!
That's easy.
Because to train lighter I have to train to like 2 rir.
Which I have amazing difficulty judging and it's somehow more mentally taxing to me than going to fail.
I also just enjoy it a lot more XD
But I understand your point and i tried it, but it was hard to keep myself going to the gym because of the lack of "fun" I was having.
This is just something that works for me personally. Not something I would recommend as a go to solution for others.
Because I understand it isn't the most healthy nor the most efficient
I do 1 set of 2 reps of isometrics per muscle with high volumes weights and machines, 2-3 times per week. Don't need anything else
Answer this.
Working out with a hernia.
What should u do?
Can u still make gains?
Well Jack Lelange(sp not sure) he suggest that reps per age should be the focus, an he would suggest about 250 reps per exercise each day to keep muscles strong.
This is where I disagree with a lot of influences, he said training biceps every day is a good way to grow. Your muscles don't grow in the gym, they grow at home when you are resting. The way I train I need way more than 24 hours to recover, I know Mike Mentzer wasn't perfect but following his philosophy of higher intensity and more rest days works well for me.
The Doc explains things in such a straightforward way even an idiot like me can understand.
I never do sets or reps, I work out till I'm tired. That works for me.
I am trying to get my Junk Fibers up to par with my Superior Fibers. Hence Junk Sets
I say pick 4 or 5 movements for the muscle group and hit and get out
9 is the sweet spot 👌🏋️
4 is best. I used to do 3 which worked for me in my 20s and 30s but im 54 now. And 4 works better for me now.
How much volume can you do if you treat food as purely fuel for the machine and dedicate 12 hours in the day to ensure you get 10 or more hours of sleep using additional power naps?
Imagine lifting at the gym, eating an intra workout meal and then taking a 30 minute nap in your car and then going back in for another hour. Just using every little trick in the book to squeeze out more recovery and therefore gains.
I’ve kind of experienced this, once I know for a fact it ain’t workin’, I leave, very new to the gym though, so could be completely wrong about it being junk volume
1 easy set to warm up. Another easy to mid set to oil the engine to get started. Follow by just 1 working set (11 to 13 reps to failure) is what 97% of all people need. If you all of a sudden can do 15 reps, then increase the weight so you fall back to 13 reps max.
Ugh. I think I’m currently residing in Junk Volumeville💯🙈🤦♂️
His anatomical knowledge is astounding.
pretty sure he's got phd's in this subject
This guy is quite good with advice man. Idk much about the scientific aspects of weight training but I’ve trained a big portion of my life. At age 50… I look quite good and what he says, I’ve actually witnessed with my body. It’s like your muscles are done DONE man. You are working in fatigue mode and the body is broken and just trying to robotically get it done with. Then once you take 3-4 days off of training…. Man… you tend the chisel out, as long as the diet is pretty tight. It’s crazy.
Yeah Past a point its bad for your muscles to continue going, but ive found if you stop before injury but push as hard as you can using med weight 50 lbs dumbells until your arms feel like baloons that are about to pop focusing on getting the most intense pump while doing drop sets and doing it daily that your arms adjust to doing it an you just get stronger unless your not resting and eating right. when it comes to doing to much hell i enjoy what these people are calling cardio with the weights because at a certain point you get high off the adrenaline and fatigue.
12-15 per muscle is way too much. If you are pushing hard there is no way you are getting to 12-15 per muscle group without feeling like you’re going to explode from the pump. I push extremely hard and I do 9 sets per muscle, 18 in total per workout, but realistically, I could probably get away with 6 or so. My pump is crazy and my muscles are exhausted after 2 or 3 sets because I push so hard, but I just keep going because, that’s what we do right?
this backs up the rich piana nightly arm workout. and unrelated.. mike looks like juggernaut
I do 8-10 on some days
12-15 on others
Wow, thank you so much for completing this FFVI WP! I started playing it about 14 years ago on an emulator but never finished it. I got to Zozo and my brother deleted computer files and I was devastated. Fortunately, you covered the game far better than I could and it was a pleasure to watch. I’ve been a fan of yours since 2012 and appreciate all the effort you put into making your LPs. Keep it up WP 👍
That’s my problem, my nervous system never shuts off
I used to do around 30 to 40 sets per workout per muscle group when i first started due to massive self hate. Now i do aroind 16 to 24 sets per muscle group due to slightly less self hate and muscle strain.
He said nothing but the truth.
Everything is clear to me just the exercises for the back are very confusing to me. I know the back is a large muscle and id like to train it twice per week. So logically i created a program of 4 exercises with 3 sets each which brings it to 12 sets for that day. So 24 sets per week. Which i know its large but the back has a lot of muscles and i need to target all of them effectively
This is why I do full body programs.
Oooweeeee but that's when it gets fun! We call that "autopilot"
I do 6 to9 set per muscle group targeting them in slightly different ways
So Rich Piano's 8 hr arm workout doesn't work?
So 1 set is all u need, excellent
I have to disagree. My right forearm has been trained on repeat 2 to 3 times a day for the last 15 years and I have to say it is looking pretty good.
🤣🤣🤣🤣
Who else trains jaw in the gym?