Lee Ultimate Die Set in 6.5CM vs Concentricity gauge. Budget tools and tips in brass prep!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 ส.ค. 2024
- I'm putting the Lee Ultimate Die set to the test agaisnt a 21st Century Concentricity Gauge. Can Lee Dies hold up to precision handloads? OR should we invest in more expensive dies?
Lots of info here in brass prep. Showing you folk Weight Sorting Brass vs Volume Sorting and what little variance does in simulation using QuickLoad.
Suggestions and feedback, comment below!
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Just a friendly note: If you roll the gauge wheel in the opposite direction it will draw the case back against the stop pin instead of pushing it away from it. This will prevent the case from moving laterally which can give you a false read on your dial indicator.
An old trick is to Mark your brass with a sharpie on the high side or the low side of the run-out, Chamber your round with that marked side up. This is what silhouette shooter did back in the day.
Man that is awesome... Thank-you Dave! Ill deffinitly do that. Wow great info.👍👍
This technique was widely used by the guys that used the 7mm TCU, and caliber wildcats in their T.C. Contender match pistols. Run out is something that all chambers produce, some a little more, some a little less, The only way around it is to have custom chambers cut for your rifle cartridge dimensions, what was above described was a way of "If the cartridge had run out, you could make the runout be in the same place when firing the cartridge. I never put this theory into practice because my silhouette gun was a revolver. However, a lot of guys on the line with single shot pistols did XP 100's and so on. I shot service rifle also at the time, however with open sights slung in that would be an impossible thing to put into practice to see any result of producing higher scores. Service rifle is a tough game as it is all about position and sight alignment. anyway. I hope this produces some edge of better consistency.
The problem with neck sizing only is, every time you fire the case it stretches and expands a little bit more changing volume, (this isn't good for consistency) until eventually you reach a point where you end up with a sticking bolt and have to full length resize anyway, and now you're starting all over again, so you're always chasing the dragons tail.
Try full length resizing with a .001-.002 shoulder bump after every firing. I've also started using Sinclair expander mandrels for sizing my necks, I find MUCH better consistency than neck bushing or Lee mandrel only sizing as it pushes all neck wall variances to the outside of the neck wall while giving a .001 bullet retention aiding in very even bullet grip.
Im going to pin this because yes this is a very valid point... I've been keeping my reloads to no more than 3 firings per case due to this and set aside to anneal or just collect to make brass ingots. The cases are not to expensive
I anneal, resize with the Sinclair mandrel and shoulder bump .002 after every firing now, the difference in my ES and accuracy was quite noticeable since switching to this method. Brass is cheap, I'm paying about $150.00 (CAD) for 100 6.5 Creedmoor Lapua brass, I can reload it at least 10 times if I do my part.
So perhaps Ruthless4645 can explain something for me and my understanding of what he has just said, " The problem with neck sizing only is every time you fire the case it stretches and expands a little bit more changing volume". Is that to mean those changes to the case would not occur if the case was full length resized rather then neck sized? The burning of the powder will cause the case to fill the chamber and at the neck the brass will expand to the internal size of the chamber neck area so the bullet can move forward to the throat in the barrel as it continues out the muzzle, that's the same as neck sizing too. You can't escape internal ballistics, the expanding of the brass as the pressure is increasing is a part of the total picture.
You proved that the Lee turret will make accurate ammo. I've found it does as well as a single stage press many , many years ago . I've made some very accurate loads on a Lee press with Lee dies .
Thanks James! I'm a little hard to convince about spending more on other name brands unless proven lol. I have whidden and a gold medal dies waiting to be opened though haha
My biggest complaint about the Lee seating die is the stem. Hornady has stems specific to the bullet you shoot. I wish Lee would do this also. This is one of the most informative videos I have seen in a while. I bet you could play with Quick Load for hours.
That's what I was thinking about the die. I can't wait to get a lathe I think I can make stem inserts and possibly a micrometer. 243 Outdoors Thank-You. I tried to make it shorter LoL
243 Outdoors Mail Lee a few bullets and $8 and they'll custom make one that fits that bullet like a glove. The stem they include with the kit is a little sloppy but works reasonably well with most bullets.
Thank you so much. Fantastic info for all.
Almost all new brass needs to be FL sized before you load it. Just the nature of the beast. There are some exceptions. Some of the higher end stuff is ready to load after opening the box.
Pretty trick tool you got there! QL is a VERY handy thing to have.
I have to admit I went back to your videos more than once before getting into this haha. You guys are awesome. Thank-you!
I love the LEE neck resizing die for my 6.5CM so I purchased them for all my RCBS Dies x 4.
@Superdude70 yes, good luck.
Awesome vid man, ever since you told me what it would be about I have been looking forward to it.
Thanks op25ttfd! Ya brother, Im sorry it was so long lol
It was hard to see the dial indicator increments but I think you are reading the indicator gauge wrong. There should be 10 divisions between '0' and .005'' where it is marked on the face of the gauge...those short lines represent .0005" ( 1/2 of 1/1,000'th.)& the longer line divisions are full increments of 1/1,000'th inch. Where you counted 3 or 4 lines and called it 3 to 4/1,000"' it was actually .0015~.002". Forgive me if I'm wrong as I said it was hard to tell from this side of the screen.
I wish the fellas knew how many hours you had to put into all this to explain all this in such a short time. This was an ''OUTSTANDING PRESENTATION & YOU GET A BIG "ATTABOY" for that!
c h a r l i e
Dangit! Someone else caught this haha. Ya it's .0005 per hash... I saw this after editing and putting the indicator away. I was expecting a cheaper Chinese gauge with this lol... o well thats a good thing right? I have less run out than i thought.
Charlie thank you!
Keep up the good work. A lot of great info.
Don't worry about the length of this video Eagle, every minute of it was fascinating. Glad to know my new Lee Turret Press is a precision piece of equipment. FYI, I've mounted it on my bench in the garage, but it's been too dang hot and humid here to do any loading with it!
Hi Kenny , thanks for the mention appreciate it, some interesting tests there I have not yet tried the water test method but on your test there was a noticeable difference and definitely food for thought. What will be interesting to see is once all the brass is shot and their Velocity’s recorded and then on the second time firing see what kind of differences the Extreme spreads are as well as their accuracy, look forward to seeing the results cheers G.👍😁
GianniG, you got lots of info on your channel and I much appreciate this info you shared. Thank-you brother for stopping by.
Let me know how the H2O test works if you ever try. I use 90% isotop alcohol to sort because water has micro bubbles that can deviate actual weight. I forgot to mention that lol
Even with my Forster co ax Press and Forster dies I still use my Lee collect die in loading 6.5 Creedmoor. The Lee collect die is one of the best dies on the market. The Lee Turret press your using, I have one in my arsenal, it was replaced by a load Master. which I really love for cranking out 45acp and 9.mm. I'm a big fan of lee products, I love the fact that you took that press and achieved the results you showed us. I'm very impressed that you spent the $249.00 to $260.00 on the concentricity gauge from 21st Century Shooting. There is no better gauge on the market for measuring concentricity. Also, great info on the correct way to measure and weigh case volume. I must say that this is one of the best videos I've seen on the subjects you covered. Thank you.
Go Reloaders Network,,,, Go Eagle Eye Shooting.
ctech01 Thank you brother! The Load Master is on my list one day. I almost bought a Forster Co Ax. I still think the camover on that press is awesome, but I wonder how much improvement will be gained? Thank-you for following me on this journey. There's so much to learn and Im grateful for everyone willing to teach
As you said there is no need to worry if the runout meaurment is under 0.004'. The neck tension affects much more the accuracy, that's why you have to reload with a low neck tension to reduce the variations and improve your results. Lot of runout on your reloading bench lol
Great video, im glad i use Lee dies for my 6.5 CM on my 550
Heck ya. I think one day ill go blue. I want to see some1 produce precision loads on a progressive. Ill try on the Lee Breech Lock Pro also. Thank-you!
Eagle Eye Shooting i get decent groups, then again i do suck at shooting long range lol ive been debating on getting the brech lock pro but i dont have any more bench space, im up to 4 presses now
Cool new toys Eagle Eye as all ways very informative every time you turn around and you teach me something new and I really dig that keep teaching me Eagle Eye I cant wait to see how there doing you rock buddy
Very nicely explained, THANKS 🙏
Many if not most precision shooters do not neck size any more-lol. Besides, after 3 firings of a neck sized case you still have to full length size. Why not just get a better(and concentric) chamber fit by using the feel method?
This is an older video. I do exactly what you say now. Though still getting scrutiny lol. I only neck size the first 2 firings to get a better chamber measurement while developing a Satterlee load
th-cam.com/video/XnsuVBwbNJo/w-d-xo.html
BTW, the gauge on your 21st Century concentricity tool is measuring in 1/2 thousands (.0005) not 1 thousands (.001) so it looks like you have less run-out than you think. Though the camera jiggling makes it hard to see for sure.
ruthless4645, Thank You sir! Yes I was hoping noone would catch that.. I looked at the gauge more closely after editing.... sigh. But that's a good thing right?. Hey thanks for watching!
LOL, yes a very good thing...........
I didn't notice, but I don't have any experience in reloading. I'm looking forward to start doing this. I'm glad you all noticed. Learned alot here, thank you.
very cool lots of information here thanks brother
I tried brother to make this shorter....... Next 1 I promiss LoL
Good video brother. I can't wait to get in to reloading. Thanks for sharing brother
Thx brother! Its definitely fun and addicting! If your a tinkerer the sense of accomplishment knowing your creations are out performing factory ammo. The biggest advantage is knowing what your firearms are capable of doing
Eagle Eye Shooting well said brother. Just listening to you and a few other guys talk about it. I can't wait it really sound fun.
The lee collet sizing die is light years ahead of everything on the market. Once the patent is up all the major die makers will offet them.
Working brass doesn’t degrade the strength- it actually gets stronger as it work hardens. The ductility is what degrades with work hardening.
Great Video I learned a lot.
Great information there 👍👍
Kenny
Do you still use the same concentricity device today ? Would you recommend any other ?
Thanks
Kenny, I'm just getting around to this video. I can only catch up so much, since finding you.
Do you have links to the neck turning too, and does 21st century have a website?
Brother, my wife is going to be soooooo mad when I tell her that I have to buy MORE reloading tools! I'll just tell her that Kenny made me do it... 🤣
Hey Kimber! Actually I recommend the RCBS Turning tool and highly polish the mandrel. I made a video with the K&M Turner tool here:
th-cam.com/video/wrTYtxvk3zY/w-d-xo.html
But I dont think turning necks is needed less your needing those low SD and ES for extreme ranges. At 1K yards and beyond is where I'm noticing it make a difference. The concentricity tool I got is from here:
www.xxicsi.com/
You guys have me itching to start loading.
Great video, very thorough explanation. at which step do you deprime the cases? with Lee collet die or a separate die? how do you clean the cases?
Hello David, I have some newer videos aswell as a Precision Loading series which gives lots of details and more in depth. I dont clean cases much. I use rubbing alcohol and wipe off carbon, usually wet tumble every 3rd firing
Nice job!
Love the content but the audio quality drives me crazy.
One of my original videos. My apologies, gotta start somewhere 🤷♂️. Appreciate watching
Great vid and info Kenny. It’s not called Lee precision for nothing. 👍🏻🇺🇸
Thanks GeorgiaBoy44 for sticking out through this one. I tried to make it shorter lol
Brilliant informative video just turn off or change your music 2 other reloader’s that I know won’t watch you because of the music at beginning
Great vid. What press is that,?
Thats the Lee Value Turret Press. Excellent press for the price
Iron maiden..hell yea!
Sir, you appear to be misreading your dial indicator.
I am... 🤦♂️ embarrassing, but I can look back and laugh now lol. Hey thanks for watching!
Talk to Speedy Gonzales about runout, you'll never worry about it again.
Just a heads up. I'm only subbed on bitchute now.
Great!. Thank - You for following brother. I have it auto uploading there as a backup.
Up the irons!!