Another factor to consider with on time percentage is what is defined as “on time.” The UK defines “on time” as arriving within 5 minutes of scheduled service for short-distance trains and within 10 minutes of scheduled service for long-distance trains. Amtrak, on the other hand, considers a train on time if it arrives within 15 minutes of the scheduled arrival time. I’m not sure how you can adjust for these differing definitions of “on time”, but I just thought it was worth mentioning.
@ Amtrak trains are, with the exception of the Northeast Corridor, notoriously late. There is practically nothing such as an on-time Amtrak train. For example, the New Orleans - Los Angeles route is often late BY DAYS, not by hours. It has a true on-time rate of less than 1%. Generally speaking, one should facture in a late arrival of at least four, usually twelve, hours when scheduling connections. When we book, we actually include an overnight stay should we be making connections. And then there is the Amtrak Customer Service which receives a worldwide ranking less than of the State Railways of Mali. If you are late, if you miss your connection, whatever, you are on your own, essentially.
Great seeing you again, and great to see a comparison video between the NEC and an actually comparable network! The NEC can definitely become comparable with the ECML or WCML, and perhaps surpass it with proper investment, and thankfully there are good upgrades in the works. I know that the ultimate goals for Amtrak is travel times between DC and NYC being had in under two hours on most services, and under 1 1/2 Hours on the fastest services with fewer stops with big infrastructure replacement projects and particularly wire upgrades and bottleneck fixes. That's a long way out at the current rate, but a lot of good stuff has begun on making, though it will take a lot more things that Amtrak wants to do to take it to the next level. Also, relatively minor nitpick: The Azumas do not have a tilting mechanism. None of the Hitachi IET trains (which the Azumas are) have it. The only British trains that do have it are the Pendalinos for Avanti on the West Coast Main Line, and the Super Voyagers for Avanti and Cross Country, and from what I'm seeing, future IET models aren't getting tilting mechanisms for the foreseeable future. Also Also, one bugbear I've seen about the ECML is that the line could easily see trains run at 140 mph if there was a cab signaling system setup, like what British Rail wanted to do in the 80s, but didn't happen because of lack of funding. It's kind of like how the Acelas could easily do 160mph on way more parts of the NEC than they do now if the catenary wires were upgraded to constant tension systems, rather than the old 1930s vintage fixed catenary that's been the cause of so many power issues and wire outages... and some parts could even see 186mph running with some regulatory changes, but that's a whole other thing.
I appreciate your in-depth knowledge of both networks! You have a lot of great points. I will have to re-check my sources about the tilting trains. It’s possible I could have confused it with the Pendalinos. Thank you for that, and for watching!!
Azumas are non tilting. The Pendolinos on the UKs west coast mainline from my home town of Glasgow, Manchester, Liverpool and Birmingham to London Euston are tilting trains and you feel them tilting around the curves at high speed. Pendolinos are better than the azumas. The quickest journey from Glasgow to London is 4 hours 30 on the pendolino. Pendolinos also run from London Euston via Birmingham to Edinburgh along the West Coast Mainline every 2 hours.
Yes, that was a mistake on my part regarding the tilting. I believe one of my sources led me to confuse them with the Pendelinos, which indefinitely knew were tilting.
@mattevans4377 absolutely, the pendolinos connect large metropolitan areas with London. The Azumas connect the West Yorkshire metro area with King's Cross on a high frequency between Leeds to King's Cross, only some going on to Harrogate and Bradford in the peak hours giving them a direct link to London.
@00Zy99 thanks for that, I had no idea that had a slight tilt, so the fella that posted the video was right all along, you don't feel the tilt when you are on the azumas and other IET fleet but you certainly feel and see it on the pendolinos as they speed around those curves on the WCML.
Not sure where the reliability stats come from but the Government Office of Road and Rail figures released on 12 Dec 2024 show 72.6% of LNER arrive within 3 minutes of booked time with 92.5 arriving within 15 minutes. It's also worth considering LNER run 26 trains a day each way from London to Edinburgh, every 30 minutes from 06;15 to 19:30 as well as a 30 minute service from Lodon to York-Newcastle and London to Leeds which is an additional 42 trains each way that's over 130 intercity trains in the East Coast into and out of King's Cross
I was similarly not confident with the stats that I found, which is why I mostly relied on personal experience to make my judgement on that one. Reliability is definitely up for debate.
For the seating, I'd say a lot of modern trains in the UK are getting nicing seating. The West Coast Main Line (Run by Avanti West Coast) recently refurbished their trains and even standard seats now have a large headrest with sides so you lean your head to the side in them. The Acela seats you showed didn't look like they have a lot of head or lumbar support, a bit like a couch vs. a car seat I suppose. Maybe it comes down to what different countries consider 'luxury', for example the curtains and leather seats feels really old school from my British perspective, whereas that 'airliner' look feels more modern!
Where is that clip of the Azuma that plays over and over (such as 11:22) shot? I'm wondering because I see two tracks in the background that are electrified, and two in the foreground that are not-and the Azuma is on the unelectrified track.
I think it is in Edinburgh, just past Haymarket as the fife circle line ( left ) joins the mainline to Glasgow Queen Street ( Right ). The fife circle is not electric and the Glasgow line is.
Excellent video, but theres a bit of a glaring albeit forgivable factual error at 7:00 The UK's rail network was fully nationalised in 1947 (trains and infrastructure) to form British Railways. BR was then privatised (both track and infrastructure) in the early 90s, with infrastructure being taken over by a private entity called Railtrack. Then in 2002, due to a spike in high profile accidents caused by lack of maintenance, resulted in Railtrack being nationalised to form Network Rail.
Thank you so much for this additional info! I kindof glossed over this convoluted history with the phrase “…which eventually became Network Rail”, which is technically true! I think this fascinating history could make for its own video. I have a lot to learn about UK railways.
@@RailWeekly The organisational stuff of the UK's rail network is difficult to understand, and just to help you it's all going to change again. The UK Government intends to re-nationalise it basically recreating British Rail (to be called "Great British Railways") which will integrate Network Rail with the Train Operating Companies like LNER once their current franchises expire. The InterCity East Coast franchise is already ready for this, as the current iteration of LNER is 100% owned by the UK Government's Department for Transport. It was previously operated by Virgin Trains, but their franchise was terminated by the Government in 2018.
might be worth just pointing out that in 1948 British Rail started which was track and rolling stock. after privatisation in 1998 The infrastructure was handled by a privat company called RailTrack. they eventually went bankrupt and the infrastructure was nationalised under Network Rail. hope this helps
Amtrak’s pricing has been surging out of control. And I didn’t have large enough of a sample size to judge the Azuma pricing. I made the editorial decision to leave that factor out. It’s also the most likely factor to change quickly and without much warning, making my argument obsolete on that point.
I appreciate you showing the average speeds when discussing performance. As a comparison the diesel Brightline train from West Palm to Orlando averages 77 mph for 165 miles. With a new Port St. Lucie bridge and improved rail crossings the speed could increase to 80+ mph.
I think you were way too kind of those Azuma seats. Most of my body disagrees with your generosity. Also, Azuma looks like it might run at 140mph for the first section out of London after signaling upgrades are complete soon, cutting journey times even more, though that wasn't the case when you traveled on their train.
You’re right. They were nowhere near as comfortable as the Acela seats. I hope we aren’t in for too much of a downgrade with the new trainsets. And that’s great to know about the speed upgrade! I had my speedometer running on my phone the whole trip, and my train never exceeded 125! I’ll have to come back to experience the higher speeds when that is complete.
@@RailWeekly I'll let you know when it happens. As for the Avelia LIberty's comfort levels, we may not remember what a train used to feel like by the time they enter service in the 2050s.
I have been told that the Intercity 225s have far better seats than the 80x (azuma / IET) trains, but I haven’t been able to try them because 225s only run a few London to York services per day now
@nether_bat There are a few HSTs still around in the West of England and Scotland. I have traveled on both an Azuma and HST in the same day to/from Edinburgh and the difference is stark. It's not nostalgia; there truly was a golden age (or at least a better age) on UK trains and it was around 1980, at least as far as the BR or post BR era is concerned.
Correct! That was a mistake on my part. It was the Pendelinos that tilt. And I rode the Javelins as well! I felt that wasn’t a fair comparison because they travel on “High Speed One” which was purpose-built for high speed trains like the Eurostar. We don’t have anything like that here in the US, although Brightline and California are both building similar dedicated lines. Fingers crossed!
It’s my sincere hope that the US will prioritize public transit more… especially if more people take a look at Europe and see how good it could be! :-)
Just took the Acela from Washington to Boston and have taken many Azuma's. The ride on the Acela was terrible and it jerked around like mad. It was a terrible product and I would think twice about ever taking it again.
The Azuma’s are not comfortable from what I have heard, however this seems to be fixed in recent deployment of IETs, the new class Evero on the cross country route are much better I have heard and more like the Pendolinos. Also to the ECML is getting digital signalling on the bottom section of the line so 140mph will be possible increasing the line speed to 140mph and average speed of the line to around 100mph and reducing the time to Edinburgh to under four hours. In general the UK is miles ahead of the US in infrastructure with billions being spent every years on track and signalling upgrades. ECML, GWL, WCML, MML have all received track, signalling and electrification upgrades. Scotland has just electrified their entire urban rail network too…
I've not watched the video yet, but there is no contest here, the Acela beats the Azuma hands down, it's a French TGV design, a higher speed, more comfy and all round better train than an Azuma. I live in Glasgow, Scotland and have travelled on Azumas on many occasions, they are uncomfortable for an intercity train, the cafe bar in the centre of the train is minute. Their predecsors on the East Coast Mainline were far better, namely Intercity 125s and Intercity 225s.
It's hilarious that the European train wins on both infrastructure and food despite both being clearly inferior in the UK as opposed to mainland Europe 😆😆😆 (If there ever was a country with worse infrastructure, food and price that the Acela could hope to beat, it would have been a UK train...)
@@RailWeekly The 1st-class dining on Transport for Wales’ service between Manchester and Cardiff has a very good reputation (the only problem is timing your journey so you get one of the loco-hauled ex-ECML 225 coach trains, rather than class 197 DMUs which don’t have much in the way of catering). The loco-hauled trains have a chef on board to cook your order, and I think a 3-course meal is £29.
Another factor to consider with on time percentage is what is defined as “on time.” The UK defines “on time” as arriving within 5 minutes of scheduled service for short-distance trains and within 10 minutes of scheduled service for long-distance trains. Amtrak, on the other hand, considers a train on time if it arrives within 15 minutes of the scheduled arrival time. I’m not sure how you can adjust for these differing definitions of “on time”, but I just thought it was worth mentioning.
That’s a great point! I definitely didn’t feel the data was completely conclusive on this.
@ Amtrak trains are, with the exception of the Northeast Corridor, notoriously late. There is practically nothing such as an on-time Amtrak train. For example, the New Orleans - Los Angeles route is often late BY DAYS, not by hours. It has a true on-time rate of less than 1%. Generally speaking, one should facture in a late arrival of at least four, usually twelve, hours when scheduling connections. When we book, we actually include an overnight stay should we be making connections. And then there is the Amtrak Customer Service which receives a worldwide ranking less than of the State Railways of Mali. If you are late, if you miss your connection, whatever, you are on your own, essentially.
Great seeing you again, and great to see a comparison video between the NEC and an actually comparable network! The NEC can definitely become comparable with the ECML or WCML, and perhaps surpass it with proper investment, and thankfully there are good upgrades in the works. I know that the ultimate goals for Amtrak is travel times between DC and NYC being had in under two hours on most services, and under 1 1/2 Hours on the fastest services with fewer stops with big infrastructure replacement projects and particularly wire upgrades and bottleneck fixes. That's a long way out at the current rate, but a lot of good stuff has begun on making, though it will take a lot more things that Amtrak wants to do to take it to the next level.
Also, relatively minor nitpick: The Azumas do not have a tilting mechanism. None of the Hitachi IET trains (which the Azumas are) have it. The only British trains that do have it are the Pendalinos for Avanti on the West Coast Main Line, and the Super Voyagers for Avanti and Cross Country, and from what I'm seeing, future IET models aren't getting tilting mechanisms for the foreseeable future.
Also Also, one bugbear I've seen about the ECML is that the line could easily see trains run at 140 mph if there was a cab signaling system setup, like what British Rail wanted to do in the 80s, but didn't happen because of lack of funding. It's kind of like how the Acelas could easily do 160mph on way more parts of the NEC than they do now if the catenary wires were upgraded to constant tension systems, rather than the old 1930s vintage fixed catenary that's been the cause of so many power issues and wire outages... and some parts could even see 186mph running with some regulatory changes, but that's a whole other thing.
I appreciate your in-depth knowledge of both networks! You have a lot of great points. I will have to re-check my sources about the tilting trains. It’s possible I could have confused it with the Pendalinos. Thank you for that, and for watching!!
Azumas are non tilting. The Pendolinos on the UKs west coast mainline from my home town of Glasgow, Manchester, Liverpool and Birmingham to London Euston are tilting trains and you feel them tilting around the curves at high speed. Pendolinos are better than the azumas. The quickest journey from Glasgow to London is 4 hours 30 on the pendolino. Pendolinos also run from London Euston via Birmingham to Edinburgh along the West Coast Mainline every 2 hours.
Yes, that was a mistake on my part regarding the tilting. I believe one of my sources led me to confuse them with the Pendelinos, which indefinitely knew were tilting.
Honestly surprised this wasn't Acela vs Pendelino, since the routes are more similar (connecting large urban areas)
@mattevans4377 absolutely, the pendolinos connect large metropolitan areas with London. The Azumas connect the West Yorkshire metro area with King's Cross on a high frequency between Leeds to King's Cross, only some going on to Harrogate and Bradford in the peak hours giving them a direct link to London.
I seem to recall that the Azumas DO have a small degree of tilt through their active suspensions, just as the rest of the IET family does.
@00Zy99 thanks for that, I had no idea that had a slight tilt, so the fella that posted the video was right all along, you don't feel the tilt when you are on the azumas and other IET fleet but you certainly feel and see it on the pendolinos as they speed around those curves on the WCML.
Not sure where the reliability stats come from but the Government Office of Road and Rail figures released on 12 Dec 2024 show 72.6% of LNER arrive within 3 minutes of booked time with 92.5 arriving within 15 minutes. It's also worth considering LNER run 26 trains a day each way from London to Edinburgh, every 30 minutes from 06;15 to 19:30 as well as a 30 minute service from Lodon to York-Newcastle and London to Leeds which is an additional 42 trains each way that's over 130 intercity trains in the East Coast into and out of King's Cross
I was similarly not confident with the stats that I found, which is why I mostly relied on personal experience to make my judgement on that one. Reliability is definitely up for debate.
@@RailWeeklystrikes have been solved now but Tory government dragged their hells on to and labour fixed it
Good to hear your voice again! It’s been a while. Another great video!
Thank you! I’m so glad you enjoyed it! Finally have some time to edit all these videos I have been filming and researching. Stay tuned! :-)
For the seating, I'd say a lot of modern trains in the UK are getting nicing seating. The West Coast Main Line (Run by Avanti West Coast) recently refurbished their trains and even standard seats now have a large headrest with sides so you lean your head to the side in them. The Acela seats you showed didn't look like they have a lot of head or lumbar support, a bit like a couch vs. a car seat I suppose.
Maybe it comes down to what different countries consider 'luxury', for example the curtains and leather seats feels really old school from my British perspective, whereas that 'airliner' look feels more modern!
Azuma and the other class 800 series family are not equip with tilting mechanism
Yes. This was pointed out and was a mistake on my part. My apologies. 🤦🏻♂️
Where is that clip of the Azuma that plays over and over (such as 11:22) shot? I'm wondering because I see two tracks in the background that are electrified, and two in the foreground that are not-and the Azuma is on the unelectrified track.
I think it is in Edinburgh, just past Haymarket as the fife circle line ( left ) joins the mainline to Glasgow Queen Street ( Right ). The fife circle is not electric and the Glasgow line is.
Excellent video, but theres a bit of a glaring albeit forgivable factual error at 7:00
The UK's rail network was fully nationalised in 1947 (trains and infrastructure) to form British Railways. BR was then privatised (both track and infrastructure) in the early 90s, with infrastructure being taken over by a private entity called Railtrack. Then in 2002, due to a spike in high profile accidents caused by lack of maintenance, resulted in Railtrack being nationalised to form Network Rail.
Thank you so much for this additional info! I kindof glossed over this convoluted history with the phrase “…which eventually became Network Rail”, which is technically true! I think this fascinating history could make for its own video. I have a lot to learn about UK railways.
@@RailWeekly The organisational stuff of the UK's rail network is difficult to understand, and just to help you it's all going to change again.
The UK Government intends to re-nationalise it basically recreating British Rail (to be called "Great British Railways") which will integrate Network Rail with the Train Operating Companies like LNER once their current franchises expire.
The InterCity East Coast franchise is already ready for this, as the current iteration of LNER is 100% owned by the UK Government's Department for Transport. It was previously operated by Virgin Trains, but their franchise was terminated by the Government in 2018.
@@DylanSargesson and to add onto this, LNER is also already government run since 2019 when Virgin Trains East Coast was running at a persistant loss.
@Rail Weekly when you were on the Azuma did you notice on the main line it switched to the Diesel engines on the non-electrified sections ??
might be worth just pointing out that in 1948 British Rail started which was track and rolling stock. after privatisation in 1998 The infrastructure was handled by a privat company called RailTrack. they eventually went bankrupt and the infrastructure was nationalised under Network Rail. hope this helps
Why not include ticket price? Maybey adjusted for cost of living in the area?
Seems like an important factor to me.
Amtrak’s pricing has been surging out of control. And I didn’t have large enough of a sample size to judge the Azuma pricing. I made the editorial decision to leave that factor out. It’s also the most likely factor to change quickly and without much warning, making my argument obsolete on that point.
What about price per km or something like this?
I appreciate you showing the average speeds when discussing performance. As a comparison the diesel Brightline train from West Palm to Orlando averages 77 mph for 165 miles. With a new Port St. Lucie bridge and improved rail crossings the speed could increase to 80+ mph.
Should have compared cost as well
That’s a great idea. Do you happen to know? Just from my own experience I would say Acela is a bit more expensive.
I think you were way too kind of those Azuma seats. Most of my body disagrees with your generosity. Also, Azuma looks like it might run at 140mph for the first section out of London after signaling upgrades are complete soon, cutting journey times even more, though that wasn't the case when you traveled on their train.
You’re right. They were nowhere near as comfortable as the Acela seats. I hope we aren’t in for too much of a downgrade with the new trainsets. And that’s great to know about the speed upgrade! I had my speedometer running on my phone the whole trip, and my train never exceeded 125! I’ll have to come back to experience the higher speeds when that is complete.
@@RailWeekly I'll let you know when it happens. As for the Avelia LIberty's comfort levels, we may not remember what a train used to feel like by the time they enter service in the 2050s.
I have been told that the Intercity 225s have far better seats than the 80x (azuma / IET) trains, but I haven’t been able to try them because 225s only run a few London to York services per day now
@nether_bat There are a few HSTs still around in the West of England and Scotland. I have traveled on both an Azuma and HST in the same day to/from Edinburgh and the difference is stark. It's not nostalgia; there truly was a golden age (or at least a better age) on UK trains and it was around 1980, at least as far as the BR or post BR era is concerned.
@ i was talking about 225s, not 125s
This should’ve been a comparison of the Class 390 rather than the class 800s also the hitachi trains don’t tilt , the pendolinos do.
Or it could have been with the Javelins
Correct! That was a mistake on my part. It was the Pendelinos that tilt. And I rode the Javelins as well! I felt that wasn’t a fair comparison because they travel on “High Speed One” which was purpose-built for high speed trains like the Eurostar. We don’t have anything like that here in the US, although Brightline and California are both building similar dedicated lines. Fingers crossed!
why are you making a comparison????
The US does not care about public transportation.
It’s my sincere hope that the US will prioritize public transit more… especially if more people take a look at Europe and see how good it could be! :-)
The Acela's are a lot bigger faster and stronger than the Azuma's
Azuma, hands down, the very best.
I enjoyed it very much!
800s don’t tilt. The west coast 390 is the tilting train
You’re right. I marked that correction in the video. The source I used had them confused with the Pendelinos. Thank you for watching!
Just took the Acela from Washington to Boston and have taken many Azuma's. The ride on the Acela was terrible and it jerked around like mad. It was a terrible product and I would think twice about ever taking it again.
The IET Azuma trains are terrible trains. Total lack of comfort, rough ride. Its useless for long distance.
Honestly improve the seats and im fine
Do either of these trains deserve to win? Questionable.
The Azuma’s are not comfortable from what I have heard, however this seems to be fixed in recent deployment of IETs, the new class Evero on the cross country route are much better I have heard and more like the Pendolinos. Also to the ECML is getting digital signalling on the bottom section of the line so 140mph will be possible increasing the line speed to 140mph and average speed of the line to around 100mph and reducing the time to Edinburgh to under four hours. In general the UK is miles ahead of the US in infrastructure with billions being spent every years on track and signalling upgrades. ECML, GWL, WCML, MML have all received track, signalling and electrification upgrades. Scotland has just electrified their entire urban rail network too…
I've not watched the video yet, but there is no contest here, the Acela beats the Azuma hands down, it's a French TGV design, a higher speed, more comfy and all round better train than an Azuma. I live in Glasgow, Scotland and have travelled on Azumas on many occasions, they are uncomfortable for an intercity train, the cafe bar in the centre of the train is minute. Their predecsors on the East Coast Mainline were far better, namely Intercity 125s and Intercity 225s.
It's hilarious that the European train wins on both infrastructure and food despite both being clearly inferior in the UK as opposed to mainland Europe 😆😆😆
(If there ever was a country with worse infrastructure, food and price that the Acela could hope to beat, it would have been a UK train...)
Hahaha! It’s a race to the bottom I’m afraid.
@@RailWeekly The 1st-class dining on Transport for Wales’ service between Manchester and Cardiff has a very good reputation (the only problem is timing your journey so you get one of the loco-hauled ex-ECML 225 coach trains, rather than class 197 DMUs which don’t have much in the way of catering). The loco-hauled trains have a chef on board to cook your order, and I think a 3-course meal is £29.