Isaiah 9:6 - Mighty God? Everlasting Father?? - Joel Hemphill & J. Dan Gill
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- Bible -- Verse -- Commentary. "Isaiah 9:6." Joel Hemphill and J. Dan Gill consider "Isa. 9:6."
ALSO SEE - "The Oneness Pentecostal Dilemma - Honor the Son" - by J. Dan Gill, Editor in Chief, 21st Century Reformation. • "The Oneness Dilemma -...
After 50 years as a Oneness Pentecostal minister, Joel Hemphill came to the understanding that not only is the Doctrine of the Trinity not scriptural, but that modern-day Oneness doctrine is lacking as well. While Brother Hemphill still holds to the Jesus Name - Apostolic message, he has come to the realization that the Jesus Name Apostolics in the Book of Acts were not proclaiming the post-biblical Oneness view of God. They did not declare God as three “manifestations.” Rather, they declared the Father himself as the only one who is truly God. And, Jesus, not as God, but rather God’s virgin born human son - the man whom God has “made to be Lord and Christ” (Acts 2.36). The Apostles in the Book of Acts taught repentance and baptism in the name of Jesus “Christ” not Jesus “Our God” (Acts 2.38).
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Thanks to God for you and the word of truth. For years now I have been a lone ranger in my region on this.
Praise the Lord❤
Excellent❤Thanks
This was very very helpful. That scripture has me stuck,and I heard another brother break it down not exactly like this but very similar. This was the video I needed to see
1Cor 8:6 says, yet for us there is only one God, the Father, of whom are all things and we for HIM; and one Lord Jesus Christ , through whom are all things and through whom we live.
That’s because He is the Lord. Like when Thomas said, “my Lord and my God”. He is the express image of God’s person (character) Hebrews 1:1-4. Obtained his name from the Father, which is Jesus Christ.
I’m trying to understand what you are trying to help us see?
This is a scripture describing an eternal God expressed in time. Notice, this isn’t a description of the Trinity, less the Holy Spirit would be promoted as well!
The explanation in this video is similar to what jw's teach. Isaiah 9:6 calls the Messiah "Mighty God", but that does not mean that he is Almighty God himself. In 1 Corinthians 8:5, 6, Paul says that although "there are many gods and many lords, there is actually to us one God, the Father." According to Philippians 2:9, after Jesus's death and resurrection, God exalted Jesus to any even higher position "and gave him the name that is above every name." Does that mean that Jesus's name is even above God's name? Philippians 2:11 explains that Jesus's exaltation is ultimately to bring glory to God the Father. Paul said something similar in 1 Corinthians 15:27. After saying that God subjected all things under Christ's feet, he goes on to clarify: "But when he says all things have been subjected, it is evident that this does not include the One who subjected all things to him."
JWs have it right
My father and i are one....is jesus point himself as the father?
GOOD EXPLANATION.
I must say i am surprised about the honesty of the KJV translation.
But very true, they were Trinity worshippers with an agenda!!
It’s also wise to consider that the Hebrew text refers to the Almighty (Jehovah) as El Shaddai.
El gibbor refers to mighty god, as is the case in Isaiah 9:6.
However there is a deeper meaning behind this verse, and the overall context.
Isaiah 9:6,7
For a child has been born to us, A son has been given to us; And the rulership will rest on his shoulder. His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace. 7 To the increase of his rulership And to peace, there will be no end, On the throne of David and on his kingdom In order to establish it firmly and to sustain it Through justice and righteousness, From now on and forever. The zeal of Jehovah of armies will do this.
You see where it says “and the rulership will rest on his shoulder”?
in verse 7 it says “ To the increase of his rulership And to peace, there will be no end, On the throne of David and on his kingdom”
This is a reference to Jesus’ coronation and the coming of the Kingdom.
Consider Matthew 22:41-45
Now while the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them: 42 “What do you think about the Christ? Whose son is he?” They said to him: “David’s.” 43 He asked them: “How is it, then, that David under inspiration calls him Lord, saying, 44 ‘Jehovah said to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand until I put your enemies beneath your feet”’? 45 If, then, David calls him Lord, how is he his son?” 46 And nobody was able to say a word in reply to him, and from that day on, no one dared to question him any further
Do you know why David calls Jesus my Lord if Jesus is a descendant or (son) of David’s lineage?
The context is about the resurrection!!!!!
Consider Psalm 45: 16
Your sons will take the place of your forefathers. You will appoint them as princes in all the earth
This is referring to the coming of the Kingdom, just as Isaiah 9:6 says “and the rulership will rest on his shoulder” , on the throne of David!!!!!
The Messiah is the son of David, Jesus’ forefathers call him my Lord via the resurrection.
Jesus becomes Lord by Jehovah’s appointment, he is given authority in heaven and on earth and will resurrect the dead.
All those who exercise faith in the Messiah will receive everlasting life.
This is the appropriate context in which Jesus is aptly described as “Eternal Father”.
Also, you should know that in the Septuagint, Isaiah 9:6 refers to Jesus as “angel of wonderful counsel”.
The Trinity doctrine is in complete contradiction to what the scriptures teach; one of the basic principles of the relationship between Jehovah and his Son Jesus
The very next chapter in Isaiah, chapter 10 verse 21, YHWH is called "the Mighty God"
So either Isaiah is referring to the mighty God he just wrote about a few verses before, or he's confused.
Obviously he's talking about the same "Mighty God," Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.
Your the one that's confused.
Also, Deut 10:17, Neh 9:32, Psa 24:8, Jer 32:18.
Jesus is referred to as "Almighty" at Rev 1:7-8, 4:8, 11:17, 15:3-4, 16:7.
Since I learned the trinity doctrine, it clears up so many apparent contradictions.
I once thought like you, but I stand corrected.
One of the keys to accepting it is to understand it correctly.
Most people who reject it, haven't a clue.
@@davidmcbrine4527
To the contrary, the scriptures do not support the Trinity doctrine.
Simply put, Jehovah and his Son (the man we knew as Jesus), share titles. Jesus is an exact representation of his and our Father, Jehovah; so this reality shouldn’t be too difficult to comprehend.
For example:
In Revelation, 1st Chapter v.8, Jehovah states that he is the Alpha and the Omega (first and the last)
V. 17, Jesus says ‘I am the first and the last’
Are we to asume that they are apart of a “Trinity Godhead”?
No, there is no scriptural basis for that argument.
Jehovah is referred to as the ‘King of eternity”, there was no God before him and he will always exist into the indefinite future.
Jesus had a beginning my friend.
Revelation 3:14
“To the angel of the congregation in La·o·di·ceʹa write: These are the things that the Amen says, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation by God”
the NIV translation says he is “the ruler of the earth” (i don’t think they liked Jesus being the beginning of God’s creation).
Colossians 1 18-19
and he is the head of the body, the congregation. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that he might become the one who is first in all things; 19 because God was pleased to have all fullness to dwell in him
Jesus is the firstborn of creation, firstborn of the dead- first in all things!!!
He is also the end, Revelation 3:14 says he is the amen- he is the embodiment and accomplishment of all Jehovah’s purposes
Jesus is also called the Last Adam!!!!
Psalms 110:1
The LORD said to my lord
John 1:18
Jesus is the only begotten god
Simply put, Jehovah exalts his son to a superior position, he becomes Lord and has authority in heaven and on earth as i previously mentioned.
If you are a great basketball player, aren’t you also a good basketball player?
maybe a venn diagram would help illustrate that point.
So yes, Jehovah is the only Sovereign Lord and The Almighty God, but he is also a Mighty God.
We shouldn’t however jump to unsupported conclusions that they are one and the same simply because they share titles.
Jehovah is exclusively referred to as the God of gods and only has sons while Jesus has brothers and that is a fact my friend.
@@jamesnewton9859 Because you say it, it's a fact? LOL!
The Deity of Christ is throughout the Bible, "my friend" THAT is a fact.
I'm detecting in your language that you think the trinity is that Jesus, the Son of God is one in the same with the Father.
That is definitely not supported in the Bible.
If that is what you think, then you have no idea what your talking about.
That would be modalism which we reject as heresy.
I suggest you understand something before you try to refute it.
Your conclusion is made out of ignorance.
@@davidmcbrine4527 Typical Trinitarian response, ignore all logic and reason i presented and claim that your critics don’t understand.
Can’t say that i’m surprised..
@@jamesnewton9859 LOL!
Well? Do you understand?
Your comment was just an evasive reply.
Explain to me your understanding of the trinity...if you can.
This is the Alpha of Our God and the Omega is in Revelation 22 :16-17 JESUS and the Spirit and the bride COME!
Interesting how everyone has problems with the same text trying to accommodate the prophecy into their doctrinal schemes.
Well @canecorsodoxa4060 there is a correct way to interpret the scriptures. You let the scriptures interpedate themselves. When you read a scripture--- you understand the context of the scriptures.
The word "father" does not appear in Isaiah 9:6 in Hebrew.
The translation has been tweaked by those with an agenda.
Trinitarians love to use this verse to promote the Trinity. “His name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, the mighty God, the everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace.” Isaiah 9:6
The problem is: this translation comes from an Alexandrian manuscript from Egypt which was found in a trash can with a lot of words blacked out!
The Septuagint notes that the Alexandrian manuscript added the following: “Wonderful, Counsellor, Mighty One, Potentate, Prince of Peace.”
All of these names but one are gone in the NEB. “His name is called the Messenger of Great Counsel: for I will bring peace upon the princes and health to him.” Isaiah 9:6 NEB
Dead Sea Scrolls 1Q confirm Mighty God
This is from the Hebrew text. Not from an Alexandrian manuscript.
And as the other commenter points out, the Dead Sea Scrolls confirm this.
"Found in a trash can"
Tischendorf's manuscript (Sinaiticus) wasn't discovered in Egypt until the 19th century. Please do more research before posting comments.
Psalm 82:6 - Jehovah has decreed it. Any servant of Him acting in accord with Him . The only distinction is this: He alone is “ the hearer of prayer “ and he alone should be worshiped (psalm 65:2, Luke 4:8).
Jesus is the everlasting Father. Jesus is the mighty God...the bible is one God throughout. I the LORD and there is no one else beside me. Right there is telling us the absolute truth. Jesus must be the only God, the bible does not contradict itself. The only conclusion is..Jesus is God!!
No he is not you idiot!
The bible does contradict itself because the new testament and jesus is a lie! The truth is in the torah and the tanach.
But how can we interpret the gospels? Where he says” abbah” as he’s dying. And throughout his ministry he kept praying to the father. And asked of others to do the same
It was the flesh crying out to the Spirit. Sometime s, we cry out in the Spirit to our father, often with groaning that we know not of.
@@scottsprowl7484Mark 13:32 KJV - 32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father
In the beginning GOD and with HIM was the Spirit of GOD. So in Gen. 1:26 this became the US... I think this is simple. somple
As a Christian of Jewish origin, I tell you that Genesis 1:26 is part of one of those verses in which the Lord God of Israel speaks in the plural (Genesis 1:26; 3:22; 11: 7; Isaiah 6: 8). In Genesis 3:22 the Eternal God addresses the angels, as evidenced by the expression כאחד ממנו (Like one of us), but in Genesis 1:26 this is not the case. Some Jews of the past have given this interpretation of Genesis 1:26, but it is wrong, otherwise it would seem that God created man with the help of angels, because the verse does not speak only of the image (בצלמנו) in a plural way, but also the verb (נעשה) indicates the first person plural. The correct interpretation, on the other hand, is that the Lord God of Israel used an intensive plural in the expression, i.e a plural that indicated intensification and not number, a common thing in terms (such as the term elohim in certain contexts for example) but not common in the expression, in fact in the Old Testament no Israelite king dared to use this way of speaking used by God in the Torah, not even King David even if he spoke of himself not in the first person and in the plural as for example in 1 Kings 1:33. And the Spirit of God is not another “person” or “hypostasis” it is God Himself because God is Spirit (John 4:24). The prophecy of Isaiah 9:6 taught my fathers the ancient Israelites that the Messiah who was to be born is YHWH GOD the Everlasting Father manifested in flesh and this is what the Lord Jesus Christ taught (John 14:9) and that the Lord Jesus Christ is the Father also emerges clearly when comparing John 2:19-21 and Galatians 1:1.
Isaiah 9:6. Christians use this verse to prove that the holy messiah was/is divine BUT they do so by using dishonest translations of the original Hebrew..
In Christian bibles the verse is translated as:
For a child shall be born to us, a son shall be given to us; and the government shall rest on his shoulders; and his name will be called Wonderful counselor, mighty God, eternal father, Prince of Peace.
This is a dishonest translation from the original Hebrew. All the verbs in this passage have been changed from the perfect tense to the future tense. Every other occurrence of these same verbs in these same forms in the Christian Bible are translated in the perfect tense! This is proof that some dishonest translations have been done to correspond to Christian theology; thus making the Bible the word of dishonest men not the word of God. The Christian Bible is replete with such dishonest translations to prove a theological narrative. This is just one example.
These gentlemen are misunderstanding. There are no other gods. There is no other god. There is only GOD the father. God taught us all throughout the scriptures that he is the only one. Therefore there is NO WAY he called Moses God. That a misunderstanding and mistranslation. GOd said he made Moses like God to Pharaoh, not a god to Pharaoh. There is a big difference. The KJV head this incorrect.
1. Kor. 8.5
The Almighty does not necessarily refer to God. Everything is relative. It could be referring to the highest human authority on earth having all power on earth as the pharaos thought they had, or it could be referring to the one person who at any time brings the most powerful spiritual light to earth, first Moses, and then the prophets, Jesus, etc., until the father comes to explain the scriptures, as the Jews expected.
“El” refers to God. “El Gibbor”.
@@Viiola24 Not really. EL in Hebrew means powerful one, mighty being, and so it could refer to a human.
@@vacaloca5575
You deny that this is referring to God or about divinity but when Jesus says that His Father is “grater” then that for sure is about divinity.
Actually the opposite.
Father has more authority than the Son. Since Son willingly submitted to the Father.
They are still one God.
Who can be “Almighty” means one that has all the power.
Context is also important. We know who that child was. And Jesus confirmed it.
It was the Son that came to explain the Father.
Check all other times when word “El” is used. It always refers to God.
@@Viiola24 No my friend. Even the word ELOHIM, which is used in Gen. 1:1 to refer to the Creator of heaven and earth, is also used in Exodus 7:1 to refer to Moses, and later the 70 judges appointed by Moses also were referred to as ELOHIM. However, no one has ever considered these men to be divine. The word EL is even more generic than ELOHIM, and any dictionary will tell you that God is only one of its meanings.
"He is going to be CALLED." .....looks like it is a prophetic Word. And he sure is called/claimed to be these things by so many in "Christianity". But being called that does not make it true.
Exactly that’s like when someone tries to call you a name that doesn’t mean you’re what they called you
I think Almighty means that the Alpha and Omega who comes as a human will have the power of the Father.
The divine part of the man Jesus was the one and only Everlasting Father.
Mr. Bojangles doing a tap dance around Is. 9:6 of the K.J.V.. This is speaking of the Arm of God who extends to us. Jn.1 1-3 has the word of God as also God Himself. The voice of God is God Himself and none other, so Jesus was both man and The Almighty God. No explaining it away.
@@ralphowen3367 Yes, the divine part of any human is the everlasting Father. God is not the Father. The Father is the logos, the Almighty Alpha and Omega, whom Jesus proclaimed and of whom he anounced his coming as the Son of Man in the Gospels and later in Revelation as the Almighty Alpha and Omega. Jesus is one of the four sons of the Almighty, who are also known as the four living creatures, representing the four seraphim around the Throne of the ALMIGHTY, and God is actually unknown to us.
@@ralphowen3367 Isaiah is not talking about Jesus, my friend. Make sure you study the immediate context of 9:6 before jumping to conclusions based on false dogmas that have been largely debunked.
@@ralphowen3367 The Almighty Father is the Lord of the Hebrew Bible, who is referred to by the so-called Name of God, aka the tetragrammaton.
Def prophetic. Same word in Hebrew "Êlgibbôr" used for Jesus in Isiah 9 and the same word used for Yahweh in Isaiah 10:21. Trinity dead on...
THANKS. THE LSB IS PROBABLY BEST TRANSLATION EXCEPT F9R MACARTHUR FONDNESS FOR TRINITY. And immortal soul. And people burning in hell.....even Now.
Jesus was the humanity of the Deity. The reason he did not say he was the Father was because it is the glory of God to conceal a matter, and the Gospels were written in code. We have to go and learn what it means.
Christ is not merely the human nature of God. He preexisted with the Father.
John 17:5
[5] And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
@@boardbill5852 I did not say that Christ was merely the human nature of God. The part of him that was with the Father from all eternity past was the Word--John 2:1-2. You may also say that he was the wisdom and the voice of God, as well as the thoughts of God. The important thing to fix in mind is that there was no eternal Son in eternity past, and neither is there one presently. The son of God is who he was in the days of his flesh. The Deity part of Jesus did not die on the cross, but only the man Jesus Christ did. The Spirit cannot die,else the world would have stopped existing for 3 days. The most interesting fact I have come across in the last year is that both the Father and the son were pierced, but only the son of God gave up the ghost on the cross. You can see that in Zech. 12:10. The verse you quoted from Is. 9:6 was from a modern version and does not say "...the Mighty God...the Everlasting Father" like the Authorized Version does to emphasize Jesus being (the one Person of) God with us.
@@ralphowen3367 The Son is eternal and was in heaven with the Father even while he was incarnate on the earth.
Christ himself says the Son descended from heaven.
John 3:13 KJV
[13] And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
@@ralphowen3367 Are the words God speaks himself? Is his wisdom also himself? Is your wisdom, thoughts, plans, etc. the same as you? As John says the Word was God. It sounds like you just looked in a concordance to see what Logos meant and then just spewed out synonyms. That’s not how words work.
@@boardbill5852 Wrong. No eternal Son, just the eternal word. Upon his ascension, Jesus went back to being the One God that he was before the incarnation. In that Jn. 3:13 verse, Jesus is accommodating himself to finite man by saying the Son was in heaven. He said near that same passage that if he tells them heavenly things they would not understand, so he spoke in code.
Trinitarians love to use this verse to promote the Trinity. “His name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, the mighty God, the everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace.” Isaiah 9:6
The problem is: this translation comes from an Alexandrian manuscript from Egypt which was found in a trash can with a lot of words blacked out!
The Septuagint notes that the Alexandrian manuscript added the following: “Wonderful, Counsellor, Mighty One, Potentate, Prince of Peace.”
All of these names but one are gone in the NEB. “His name is called the Messenger of Great Counsel: for I will bring peace upon the princes and health to him.” Isaiah 9:6 NEB