There's a similar story about a club in austria called "Austria Salzburg", who got bought up by red bull and stripped of its identity. The fans created a new club and earlier this season they faced each other for the first time.
I am a 69-year-old Londoner who has been attending another team's matches for over 60 years and has seen endless thousands of games live or on TV and I know this story well but even I had a tear at the very end. LOL, My own team moved just HALF OF ONE MILE to a new stadium in 1993 and 31 years,I still haven't truly forgiven them but they had to comply with the "recommendation" which was NOT "mandatory" that Clubs had to have All Seater Stadiums(ASS) and then it was, compulsory in the Top 2 Leagues. UNBELIEVABLY, after 31 years there I have, right now, realized another reason why our Home form doesn't compare with our old 80% Standing Ground. The AWAY fans DO stand and we have to sit down. Many grounds now have"Safe Standing"..
From an American perspective, it feels as though bleacher seating would solve the problem of crowd crushes while being cheaper than an all-seater stadium. Tough to push forward with a bunch of baffles even if they're just knee high. But your reaction to the team moving a half-mile away reminds me of what would happen if the Red Sox or the Cubs moved that far from their current grounds, which they have been using for 112 and 108 years, respectively. Once a team's been in one spot that long, they have a traditional connection to _that specific ground._
@@philipmcniel4908Very true Philip and at our old dilapidated ground,we were right on top of the pitch with Home fans on all 4 sides of the ground(3 sides=Standing: 1 side: Seats) and the Away fans were tucked away in a far corner. lol We broke The Football League Record there by going 59 Home games,in succession, unbeaten but in this new ground we once lost 6 homes in a row, and before Millwall's last 2 home wins, we had won just 6/25:the worst home run in our history. The Away fans get one whole end and,like all Away fans everywhere, insist on standing though in many grounds Home fans stand and ignore the seats. They have FINALLY introduced"Safe Standing" in many grounds now. Good Luck:)
Mk dons are hated countywide. That certainly won't change. The reaction to Wimbledon beating them a few weeks back was amazing. Football league fans from across the country rejoiced
One of Wimbledon's most famous players from the Crazy Gang era is Vinnie Jones who has been in a lot of British gangster movies playing your typical tough guy, was also in X Men 3 as the Juggernaut.
I saw the video and loved it too, but I got to mention a small point that the Fat Asian didn't focus on that much. The original Wimbledon FC team that won that FA Cup against Liverpool had another less heartwarming reason for being called the "crazy gang". Mainly cause some of their players were really violent and savage. One of the reasons they reached so far was that the sheer fear and intimidation their reputation brought certainly opened some pathways to greatness for the Wimbledon of old (for context, look up the then player of Wimbledon, Vinnie Jones) Thankfully nowadays they seem to have moved from the crazy gang days, which is a positive. Hope AFC Wimbledon reaches far. With that said, heading back to watching your reaction 😅😅
yeah vinnie was a nutter , and honestly should never have been allowed on a football pitch , which is why he ended up being banned and changing careers. his portayal of violent psychopaths in movies doesnt require a lot of acting on his part
If it helps any, my team ( Stockport County ) murdered the franchise bastards at the weekend. I have a soft spot for AFC but will always hate MKDonalds.
One thing the original video missed out is that while it’s customary for clubs to extend hospitality and box seats to the opposition club owners when they play them, they made Winkleman and chums buy seats with the fans in the away end when MK first played at Wimbledon!
My Grandfather's team. He died before after the move to MK but before AFC Wimbledon really took off, but if there is an afterlife, I hope he's enjoying them from beyond.
John Green's AFC Wimbledon series' were what initially began to get me interested in football in the first place. I've never cared for sports, whether it's playing or watching, and I was always one of those people that thought sports were dumb (still kinda do in certain ways to be honest). But I like the Green brothers and what they do and at some point around 2014-15 I started watching his series, which by then already had hundreds of episodes, and I just loved it. I loved it because he was entertaining and insightful, but also because he was clearly actually so passionate about this real life team with this great story. I didn't really start watching football yet but I started to soften on it and AFC Wimbledon especially has a nice place in my heart, so when I first tried playing Football Manager a couple of years later, just because I like management games, I tried playing as them. I sucked. It didn't go well, because I didn't actually know anything about football or the league system or even the rules really, so I put it down for a few more years. Eventually I watched some of the 2018 World Cup and I found myself really enjoying it, and only finally around 2021, about a year before you, I started actually watching football (and trying FIFA career mode and FM again as well, and playing with Wimbledon in the former). And that's where my current football journey really started. I've watched a lot of football since then and to be honest most of it hasn't been of the Dons, mostly because of money and availability when they're in the lower tiers. I've fallen in love with Liverpool, with Napoli, with Borussia Monchengladbach, and with Sunderland and Atletico Madrid (okay mostly just Simeone) too, and I watch them all regularly. But despite that I still consider myself a Dons fan too and if I had to choose between Liverpool winning the league and the Dons getting promoted the choice would be the Dons every time and I wouldn't have to think about it. I'll always cheer them on and keep up with them and watch them when I can, both because of who they are and because they were the ones who actually got me into this sport in the first place, even if it was originally through a fun writer playing a video game badly. This season the Dons and MK are in the same league again, as Wimbledon was relegated to League Two in 21-22 after several years in the third tier, and MK were relegated in 22-23. They're both having decent seasons and are in the hunt for playoff spots (MK are pushing for autos but I don't think they'll get it) with Wimbledon in a scrappy fight for the last spot with only a few games to go. It's very possible that they'll both make it and could face each other in the playoffs, which would obviously be huge and would be must-watch matches in my opinion. Here's hoping the Dons can go the distance, because they deserve it!
It is some story Luke, i remember when it happened, its true MK Dons were hated for doing it, if im remembering right the original Wimbledon F.C were in the Premier League when the move was announced, i was always of the opinion MK Dons should have been made to start in League Two at least, never underestimate the passion of the fans, another example is Bury F.C they were kicked out of the whole football pyramid because of debts, so the fans started again with the new Bury AFC at the non-league level, another one is some Man Utd fans who opposed the Glazers taking over formed their own club, F.C United of Manchester which is in the non-league right now
@Isleofskye they're in the northwest counties premier division (the 9th tier) right now, the fans bought back their old stadium (Gigg lane), the name Bury F.C and their old memorabilia,hopefully they continue to thrive, it's really an inspiring story
FC United of Manchester an others alike don't only oppose the new sets of owners they just feel like the premier league has lost its connection to grassroots football with all the money and stuff that goes around nowadays. And tbh I get it because its almost like they get to start from ground 0 all over again and create their own stories and history.
The FA and the government played a part in doing it. They tried to us MK as part of a world cup bid. That thankfully failed and they were all humiliated.
The Wimbledon Story is much more political than any of this brief history makes out, the original villain is Merton Council who denied Planning Permission to improve the original Plough Lane, and then there was an attempt to take the club to Dublin which had support within the UK Government. You can make this about Greedy owners but in reality the whole crisis starts because a Local Council refused to let Wimbledon bring their stadium up to the required standard and made them homeless.
I'd love to know the source for claiming that Winkleman thought he'd pick up the fans of the original team, it seems unlikely given how few of the fans could be bothered to travel to Selhurst Park!
Luke, i've been following you since months when you started to make videos about football, and i really like your points of view and thoughs and effort, but this is one of the best period, absolutely love it. Cheers from Argentina.
AFC Wimbledon also spoke with my club Enfield Town who had done the same thing in 2001 (the first to do so) for similar reasons although because Enfield FC were only a non league club they didn't make the headlines as much .
I recall reading a fair bit about Enfield and Enfield Town at the time. It was before the internet though so less likelihood of seeing such articles as you relied on print media only. Watched Wycombe play Enfield a few times in our non-league days!
I've loved the fat Asian for years, back to when his channel was called BMOnus or something along those lines. Glad to see he's getting some appreciation recently. He honestly helped me get into soccer as much as I am when he came out with his clueless American series.
I actually stopped becoming a Raiders fan for that reason, if Mark Davis couldn’t be bothered to support the community of Oakland then why should I support his team?
Only small market teams move...not really mate. The LA Rams moved to St Louis before moving back and in Baseball the New York Giants moved to San Francisco and the Brooklyn Dodgers went to LA.
Raiders moved three times as well. Baltimore colts moved to Indianapolis, the the browns moved to Baltimore and became the ravens. Houston Oilers moved to Tennessee and became the titans Huge markets all of them; usually the main reason is public money was offered to build stadia in the new cities and refused in their current one.
I think the nearest scenario here for the American mind would be the Sonics being relocated to Oklahoma and becoming the OKC Thunder, except Seattle hasn't gotten their team back yet
An entire generation of fans have now grown up only knowing (and supporting) MK Dons. While exceptionally rare in modern football, moving grounds (and even changing name to match) wasn't as uncommon in the early days of the sport. Hence why my team are known as Bolton Wanderers. (They played wherever a ground was available at one point.) So while it's easy to understand the fans' anger at losing their traditional club, sooner or later it's gently forgotten and just becomes a part of club history.
Also common in early years was the merging of clubs or shifting within close proximity when they intend to identify as a club for a even bigger area. But all that was still acceptable .
Yes, it used to happen a lot in the early days of football in England, but once clubs were established in a certain area they became part of the fabric of the local community and represented the people of that community and that is why the FA changed the the rules after the Wimbledon move to "Franchise-land" to stop this sort of thing happening again in the future. A football club in England belongs to its community, town or City.
Yes, Merton council could have done more to help the original Wimbledon fc find a new home in the local borough, but when the owner Sam Hammam was offered sites in the area he made excuses not to explore the possibilities and readily put the money from the sale of the original plough lane site into his own back pocket instead of putting the funds towards a new stadium.
@5:28 you see the Charlton badge outside Selhurst Park. Charlton were ground sharing there between 1985-91, we moved out and eventually got back home, Wimbledon moved in. Whilst we were at Selhurst we was approached to move to MK as well
@@jasonuk8333 yeah he did try with QPR as well and I think he even proposed a merger with us as part of his proposal. I remember reports of Winkleman pitching the deal to QPR fan groups and getting a very frosty reception.
8:30 I think a lot of American franchises like to disguise their relocations by taking the names of older franchises in their new locations. The Charlotte Hornets were a different team in the 90’s, then New Orleans moved to Charlotte after the original Hornets were no more. The New York Yankees used to be the Baltimore Orioles-not affiliated with the current Baltimore Orioles. Ditto the Cleveland Browns, who lost their team in the early 90’s but were immediately granted a franchise that currently plays as the Cleveland Browns. The original Cleveland Browns are now the Baltimore Ravens, who lost their original franchise, the Colts, to Indianapolis.
@@TDtog2112 even if they changed everything, the stain of their origins would still remain. Every other league in the country was either a founding member of the league they were in, or earned their spot in that league through promotion. The Franchise just went out and bought it. He could have done a Wrexham on their MK’s non-league side, or founded his own team at the bottom of the pyramid, instead he went out and purchased what every other team in the country had to earn: a spot in the league. If they ditch the name, and *then* get relegated out of the league, then they can fight their way back up and earn some respect. Until then, they’re a fake team that shouldn’t exist
The Angels in 2005 did this mind boggling thing of re-locating to Los Angeles while not moving from Anaheim 😂 If you look into the history of NBA franchises, most of them have had relocations. In the case of the Hornets, I’ve seen the Charlotte Hornets become the New Orleans Hornets. The Charlotte Bobcats then became an expansion. Then due to Katrina, they temporarily became the New Orleans/Oklahoma City Hornets (which opened up the market for the Seattle Sonics relocating to become the Oklahoma City Thunder). The Hornets became the Pelicans, the Charlotte Bobcats became the Charlotte Hornets. The history of the two is very convoluted.
You really should check out the story of the Columbus Crew. As far as I can tell it's only time in American history that a team announced their intention to move and it didn't. It's a really cool story.
Can I recommend two films, related about the Fashanu brothers. John who played for Wimbledon, and his older brother Justin. Watch 'one in £1million ' first. Then the secret that split these brothers.
I'm not either fan, when the original Wimbledon in 2003-04 season got relegated, they never went to non-league, they went to league one, relocated and renamed MK Dons, so there that continuation, they never dissolved like Newport or Accrington Stanley.
14:19 not a movie yet, though there are a few mini docs on TH-cam. I think I read somewhere that John Green owns teh films rights to this story and he wants to get it made, just a case of what part of the story they focus on
Across the 4 major North American sports leagues, just this century (I don't know how old you are, but all these will probably be during your life) these teams moved 2001 - NBA - Vancouver Grizzlies > Memphis Grizzlies 2002 - NBA - Charlotte Hornets > New Orleans Pelicans 2005 - MLB - Montreal Expos > Washington Nationals 2008 - NBA - Seattle Supersonics > Oklahoma City Thunder 2011 - NHL - Atlanta Thrashers > Winnipeg Jets 2012 - NBA - New Jersey Nets > Brooklyn Nets 2016 - NFL - St Louis Rams > Los Angeles Rams 2017 - NFL - San Diego Chargers > Los Angeles Chargers 2020 - NFL - Oakland Raiders > Las Vegas Raiders Thats 9 in 24 years. Thats 1 team being moved away from it's fans roughly every 2.5 years.
America doesn't have promotion and relegation, while the English are a deeply meritocratic people and will only tolerate a meritocratic game. 21:57: AFC Wimbledon have now won the first Wimbledon Derby at Plough Lane this month.
I did a quick Google on US sports teams changing cities, and found a Wikipedia page showing that is has happened around 70 times across different US sports!!!
wait until you discover about fan owned clubs across the globe like FC United of Manchester, Union Berlin, etc. These phenomenon is called Punk Football and there is a documenter about it
With regards to 14:30 . There is a recent Zealand video called 'Why the US sucks at Football' which gives some good, if slightly limited, insight into this
huh ... for some reason id always thought the change had happened because the OG wimbledon had gone bust , and thus the remains were bought out and restarted as MK dons... not that they had been aggressively bought out and just swept away as part of that...
If you listen to the MK version, that is the bullshit story they come up with. Also, we Wimbledon fans were told that, "It would not be in the wider interests of football to restart as say, Wimbledon town fc" by the football authorities. And, although we protested so much against the move to MK, we were told that no matter what, that the move would still go ahead, and fans of "The Franchised" club to this day, still accuse Wimbledon fc fans of abandoning our club. We did not abandon our club, it was taken away from us, and therefore saw no point in continuing the protests and decided to start our own new club from nothing before the old Wimbledon fc were moved to MK. We started at level 9 of the English football pyramid at the same level as Milton Keynes City fc, an already locally established team in the MK area. Pete Winkelman wanted a team and it's place already established in the football league and stole it from Wimbledon fans. He claimed that it was impossible to raise a team up from level 9 to the football league, but we, AFC Wimbledon fans, PROVED HIM WRONG. In the process of moving WFC to MK, he also killed off Milton Keynes City fc.
Not sure if you have covered it. But maybe take a look at how Wigan athletic beat Manchester city in the FA cup Final in the 2012/2013 season and the fall from the prem that happened to Wigan. Or maybe take a look at Wigan Warriors Rugby League team and their history and all that goes with that. ( Yes I am from Wigan )
9:02 you did see the two other massive NY baseball teams both move though, the Giants and Dodgers. Also American teams make more than enough money to survive, there is no 'market' in a country as rich as the US that couldnt handle a pro sports teams, what holds them back are the shady powers at be that dont want to survive but want non stop greed.
This story missed one of the most interesting parts and thats that Wimbledon actually could have been moved to Dublin! soccer isn't the first or even second biggest sports in Ireland behind Gaelic Football and Hurling, but it does have its own league and clubs, but since the rise of TV most Irish football fans have supported clubs across the water in England, particularly in City with high Irish immigration like Liverpool and Manchester (also tons support my team Celtic). Anyway a developer in Dublin basically tried to get Wimbledon to play in Ireland, as a premier league team in the foreign country, which to me would have been an even crazier story than going to Milton Keynes (which is like only 40 mins outside of London)
Another brilliant story, Luke, underpins the hatred Tottenham fans have for Arsenal, when Arsenal connived to get themselves unfairly promoted from 5th place in division two to division one, and also to get Tottenham unfairly relegated at the same time in 1919. Arsenal hold the current record for most consecutive years in the top flight as they have stayed in the top flight ever since that day - though they really have no right to be there. Everton FC, my club hold the second longest stint in the top flight even though that is looking hella precarious right now.
I am not a Wimbledon supporter though I loved this story and had a tear forming at the end but Everton,as you know, came back from 9/2 on the last day,the other year ,to win 3/2 to survive but they did EXACTLY the same when 0/2 down at half time at Goodison against Wimbledon(lol) in the most crooked game I have seen in attending since 1962. Everton, also,had to win that day and The Ref gave them the most ridiculous Penalty in the 2nd half to start to haul them back. You won't go down and with the new stadium,it should be happy, exciting times for Everton though a real xxxxx leaving the atmospheric Goodison. I hope they have arranged a Standing Home End at Bramley Moor. Have they, please?
Yeah that day against Wimbledon is seared on my memory. It was an outrageous comeback from 2-0 down. Seems to me that Hans Segers let a goal in - I don't know. Everton have discussed the possibility of safe standing at Bramley Moor Dock in light of the slightly underwhelming capacity of 53k which doesn't really live up to Nil Satis Nisi Optimum but nothing has been decided yet. The ground is, however, designed with a solid bank of fans behind the goal in the South stand. @@Isleofskye
One thing not mentioned is the Wimbledon Twitter account against MK Dons. The admin doesn’t recognise their existence ever. MK Dons aren’t mentioned at all by the Wimbledon account. Whenever they score it’s just “the opposition score” and they don’t include the badge on the graphics either. It’s really petty and I love it.
The football magazine 'When Saturday Comes' is great too. Even now when they do their regular season review/preview supplements (where representatives of each club answer a handful of questions about the season just gone, and the upcoming one), the MK Dons section always simply reads 'No questions asked'. Excellent.
Watch the film United the story of Manchester United’s busby babes Munich air crash 1958 a team full of youngsters ruling Europe wiped out and the club rising again . It will move you man 💙
I personally know 3 x players of Wimbledon before all this nonsense, one who grew up only a few houses from me then went on to manage AFC Wimbledon, as a Chelsea fan it was pure joy seeing another one who I went to school with get turned inside out by gianfranco zola in the fa cup semi final in 97 to score whilst I was in the front row behind the goal.
I think pretty unanimously, AFC are seen as the continuation of the real Wimbledon. MK Are laughable, a stadium less than a quarter full and a pathetic fanbase.
Never understood the franchise system, how anyone could support a team taken from another city. If there's a city that doesn't have a team for whayever reason and there's people willing to invest finances to give it one, why not just invest in a brand new team if they know there's already a fanbase ready and willing to embrace a new team in their city?
That kind of works with a growing league like MLS, but with a mature league that already has 30-32 clubs at the top-flight level (the only level that American sports fandom really cares about because "if you aren't rooting for your team to win the national championship, then just what _are_ you rooting for them to win?"), you can only add so many before it becomes this gargantuan, unwieldy league. The teams that end up moving in the US are generally the ones that don't have a large, vibrant fanbase to begin with--the clubs that would've folded if not for relocation. Not always, and there are always fans who get angry about it (see the Oakland A's protests last baseball season), but it's almost never the really big, popular clubs that relocate--or usually the ones with a lot of history in one place. For instance, the Boston Red Sox have been playing at the _same ground_ for 112 years, and there would be an uproar if they moved even a half-mile away due to the historic nature of both the team and the park, and of the team's connection to the park. Same with the Chicago Cubs, whose fanbase is so loyal that they stuck with the team through over a century-long trophy drought in a league where trophies are basically the only thing there is to play for. Even the somewhat more recent teams that are successful and have deep roots and large, loyal fanbases aren't just going to get up and move: Teams like the Kansas City, San Francisco, and Seattle teams aren't just going to get up and move in the foreseeable future. When a team does settle in a new city, the fans generally react about the same as if a new club had been founded there. To them, it _is_ a new team.
@@philipmcniel4908 Interesting, I can understand new MLS franchises as the high level of interest in soccer in the US is still relatively recent. I was thinking more about the more established US sports like NFL and baseball which from your explanation sounds like a similar fan attitude as there is to football in the uk and Europe. Most clubs in the uk began as part of the working community and overtime people stuck with them, the big trophies were like a holy grail among the lower leagues though they have their own trophies. The fact of relegation and promotion allows lesser clubs down the leagues pyramid to dream of rising to the top. Plus they're all allowed to enter the annual fa cup, traditionally our version of the Superbowl. As this video shows, Wimbledon fc rose from outside the professional football league to the top division and won the fa cup.
@@roboi2241 I think there are some major differences between American sports and European sports that come down to geography, population distribution, and the diversity of sports that are popular here. The system with promotion and relegation has several advantages in Europe that it doesn't here: -First, Europe has the population density to support truly local clubs (and by "local" I mean not only within two hours, but within half an hour--not like where I live in rural southern Oregon where people will drive three hours to see their local college football team play). This means that if your club gets relegated to an un-televised league, you can still go see it every weekend. Sports in the US are a TV experience for many Americans--especially in the western US which has a very low population density--because you might live several hours from your closest team, and you might make a couple of special trips to see them live during a season, but to follow them every week you really need TV (or online streaming nowadays). This is admittedly a bigger deal in the more rural areas of the country such as where I live: I live in a town of 700 people, half an hour from the nearest other town (and their population is less than 2500!). There is no way we'd be able to support a local club in the European system--at least not one that would have any hope of making it out of the Sunday leagues--and our Sunday league rivals would all be a minimum of 3-4 hours away. (I know this, because our local high school sports teams _do_ commute that far to play other 1A schools, which are the smallest classification in high school sports here. I remember playing basketball for one year in high school, and we would sometimes get back to town at 2 a.m. after away games.) -Which brings me to my second point: European countries are smaller, which means that they can break their amateur leagues up into reasonable-sized regions without having an unreasonable number of regional leagues, or an unreasonable number of steps to the pyramid. Working your way up from the 9th tier like Wimbledon is hard; imagine if they'd had to work their way up from the 56th tier or something like that--especially if there were 65 other regional leagues _at their level_ whose clubs were vying for the same promotion spots. (And promotion could be the financial kiss of death for a small club from the wilderness of Alaska, if they suddenly had to travel to the Lower 48 for all their away matches with a semipro team!) Our equivalent to the FA Cup, the US Open Cup, is highly regionalized until most of the non-MLS, non-USL teams are out, because really, can you imagine your local 5th-tier side having to travel to Baku in the third round? (The distance from LA to NYC is essentially the same as from London to Baku.) -Third, returning to my point about how you need to have a team to follow in a _televised_ league unless you live in a huge city (or follow local high school sports): With five top-flight leagues that are all very popular (the NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL, and now MLS), even the most popular professional second tier--Minor League Baseball--is rarely televised, and is a huge step down in popularity from the Big Five. With up to five major sports leagues to cover, there's just no TV airtime or newspaper print space left over for even a second-tier minor league most of the time, let alone a third tier. Same goes for sports fans' admissions money. -Since our country spans a continent, and draws from a large population as a result, its top tier is more equivalent to the Champions League level of play than even the Premier League. That increases the gap between amateur and professional play _significantly._
Particularly as the local Council to Wimbledon were villains by not allowing them to redevelop their ground effectively making them homeless and they nearly moved to Dublin in Ireland and even though they were ground sharing for 10 years at Crystal Palace only 6 miles, their attendances plummeted in the Premier Division(where most teams have full stadiums and long waiting lists) and one crowd was the lowest ever recorded in the Topflight at 3,000+.....None of this was mentioned and they did not go into details about why Vinnie Jones(now hardman actor) and the others were known as "The Crazy Gang"...imagine all that on top of these facts:)
@Isleofskye yeah. In my mind, they'd alter it for a US audience that loves drama. Add things that never happened/don't need to be there or take away things that should be. Americanise the whole thing. End up doing the people/club a huge disservice.
@@lukessportsacademyI’m still watching but our fans are used to it and we kind of enjoy being the most hated in a way. It’s my local at the end of the day and I was born a year after it happened. Both teams are in the play offs in league two rn so there’s a chance we could end up facing each other to get promoted
@@lukessportsacademy There really isn't much of a best light for MK Dons. The lies and corruption that led to the theft of the old Wimbledon, and the FA's disgraceful decision to allow it is a stain on English football. Wimbledon's fans demonstrated that a suitable stadium could be built on the old Plough Lane site but Charles Koppel and co were never interested in staying there, going as far as to try and hold a meeting with local residents (vetting invitees for known Wimbledon fans) and encouraging them to protest any plans to build a new stadium, telling them that 'football fans are not the sort of people you want on your doorstep'. Fans of the franchise will always overlook the facts to pretend there was no choice and it was only about rescuing a football club, but it was really about business and a property deal (the stadium and surrounding stores) that required a football club to play there to get planning permission. It's such a shame the same business people could not start a new club or get behind a local non-league club that wanted their input and build them up. AFC Wimbledon showed how you could go from the lowest level to the football league in 9 years. Franchise fans could have genuine pride in their club if it had not just been handed a league place without earning one, and they had got it the same way AFC Wimbledon did.
"The London FA"?? It's the English FA - I know that Americans seem to think the 'London' is just another name for England, but London does NOT have its own Football Association!
I find these English "gotchas" just come from them being ignorant about their own system and language. London FA was correct. You're just too English to be smart or humble.
Sam Hammam owned the original club during the 'crazy Gang' days and screwed them by selling the original Plough Lane and pocketing the money. He then sold the club at an inflated price to a couple of Norwegian guys who then installed Charles Koppel as chairman. Pete Winkelman (who had already tried and failed to get other clubs to move to Milton Keynes) got in touch and finally found owners who were happy to deal with him to give him the club he needed to get his property deal in MK sorted. They managed to con an FA commission into believing the club had no hope of a stadium in SW London, and could not survive, and the theft was done. The fans then left to set up AFC Wimbledon having been abandoned by their club, and they spent one further season playing at Selhurst Park in the Championship in front of an average crowd that AFCW exceeded in the Combined Counties League!
The AFC Wimbledon story is a lot less heart warming when you hear about the state of Kingstonians, the original owners of Kingsmeadow. AFC Wimbledon sold the ground to Chelsea for Chelsea's women. It was nice of them to force a club to relocate and while they'll tell you that it was the fault of Kingstonians for not having enough money, they never seem to accept that is why Wimbledon had to leave! As another comment noted, Merton Council were the real villains in the piece with their refusal to allow the original WImbledon to redevelop Plough Lane, but nobody has their hands clean in this
The detail you conveniently leave out is that Kingstonian all but put themselves out of business by spending way beyond their means in the 90's and lost control of Kingsmeadow. The owner of the stadium had no interest in the club, not even allowing them to keep bar receipts at their matches. I'm sure it wasn't easy watching another club buy the lease of the stadium they once owned, but Kingstonian had around 18 years of paying a peppercorn rent, being able to keep bar receipts etc from their games. If Wimbledon had not purchased the lease Kingstonian would have been out of business or evicted back then. They had 18 years of having a home stadium with next to no rent, with Wimbledon picking up the tab for upkeep and improvements. They were then given a million to help them out when Wimbledon left. Show us another club that would have treated Kinsgtonian as well.
@@jasonuk8333 You mean like Wimbledon spending well beyond their means? But please keep pleading the case as supposed victims while doing the same to another club...
There's a similar story about a club in austria called "Austria Salzburg", who got bought up by red bull and stripped of its identity. The fans created a new club and earlier this season they faced each other for the first time.
Hopefully there is a video covering the story. Would love to learn about it!
same in Germany with SV Markkannstädt who became RB Leipzig
I am a 69-year-old Londoner who has been attending another team's matches for over 60 years and has seen endless thousands of games live or on TV and I know this story well but even I had a tear at the very end. LOL, My own team moved just HALF OF ONE MILE to a new stadium in 1993 and 31 years,I still haven't truly forgiven them but they had to comply with the "recommendation" which was NOT "mandatory" that Clubs had to have All Seater Stadiums(ASS) and then it was, compulsory in the Top 2 Leagues. UNBELIEVABLY, after 31 years there I have, right now, realized another reason why our Home form doesn't compare with our old 80% Standing Ground. The AWAY fans DO stand and we have to sit down. Many grounds now have"Safe Standing"..
From an American perspective, it feels as though bleacher seating would solve the problem of crowd crushes while being cheaper than an all-seater stadium. Tough to push forward with a bunch of baffles even if they're just knee high. But your reaction to the team moving a half-mile away reminds me of what would happen if the Red Sox or the Cubs moved that far from their current grounds, which they have been using for 112 and 108 years, respectively. Once a team's been in one spot that long, they have a traditional connection to _that specific ground._
@@philipmcniel4908Very true Philip and at our old dilapidated ground,we were right on top of the pitch with Home fans on all 4 sides of the ground(3 sides=Standing: 1 side: Seats) and the Away fans were tucked away in a far corner. lol We broke The Football League Record there by going 59 Home games,in succession, unbeaten but in this new ground we once lost 6 homes in a row, and before Millwall's last 2 home wins, we had won just 6/25:the worst home run in our history. The Away fans get one whole end and,like all Away fans everywhere, insist on standing though in many grounds Home fans stand and ignore the seats. They have FINALLY introduced"Safe Standing" in many grounds now. Good Luck:)
Mk dons are hated countywide. That certainly won't change. The reaction to Wimbledon beating them a few weeks back was amazing. Football league fans from across the country rejoiced
The world mate, the entire world hates MK Dons.
One of Wimbledon's most famous players from the Crazy Gang era is Vinnie Jones who has been in a lot of British gangster movies playing your typical tough guy, was also in X Men 3 as the Juggernaut.
I saw the video and loved it too, but I got to mention a small point that the Fat Asian didn't focus on that much. The original Wimbledon FC team that won that FA Cup against Liverpool had another less heartwarming reason for being called the "crazy gang". Mainly cause some of their players were really violent and savage. One of the reasons they reached so far was that the sheer fear and intimidation their reputation brought certainly opened some pathways to greatness for the Wimbledon of old (for context, look up the then player of Wimbledon, Vinnie Jones)
Thankfully nowadays they seem to have moved from the crazy gang days, which is a positive. Hope AFC Wimbledon reaches far. With that said, heading back to watching your reaction 😅😅
yeah vinnie was a nutter , and honestly should never have been allowed on a football pitch , which is why he ended up being banned and changing careers. his portayal of violent psychopaths in movies doesnt require a lot of acting on his part
If it helps any, my team ( Stockport County ) murdered the franchise bastards at the weekend. I have a soft spot for AFC but will always hate MKDonalds.
One thing the original video missed out is that while it’s customary for clubs to extend hospitality and box seats to the opposition club owners when they play them, they made Winkleman and chums buy seats with the fans in the away end when MK first played at Wimbledon!
My Grandfather's team. He died before after the move to MK but before AFC Wimbledon really took off, but if there is an afterlife, I hope he's enjoying them from beyond.
As a Wimbledon fan this gave me goosebumps.
John Green's AFC Wimbledon series' were what initially began to get me interested in football in the first place. I've never cared for sports, whether it's playing or watching, and I was always one of those people that thought sports were dumb (still kinda do in certain ways to be honest). But I like the Green brothers and what they do and at some point around 2014-15 I started watching his series, which by then already had hundreds of episodes, and I just loved it. I loved it because he was entertaining and insightful, but also because he was clearly actually so passionate about this real life team with this great story. I didn't really start watching football yet but I started to soften on it and AFC Wimbledon especially has a nice place in my heart, so when I first tried playing Football Manager a couple of years later, just because I like management games, I tried playing as them. I sucked. It didn't go well, because I didn't actually know anything about football or the league system or even the rules really, so I put it down for a few more years.
Eventually I watched some of the 2018 World Cup and I found myself really enjoying it, and only finally around 2021, about a year before you, I started actually watching football (and trying FIFA career mode and FM again as well, and playing with Wimbledon in the former). And that's where my current football journey really started. I've watched a lot of football since then and to be honest most of it hasn't been of the Dons, mostly because of money and availability when they're in the lower tiers. I've fallen in love with Liverpool, with Napoli, with Borussia Monchengladbach, and with Sunderland and Atletico Madrid (okay mostly just Simeone) too, and I watch them all regularly. But despite that I still consider myself a Dons fan too and if I had to choose between Liverpool winning the league and the Dons getting promoted the choice would be the Dons every time and I wouldn't have to think about it. I'll always cheer them on and keep up with them and watch them when I can, both because of who they are and because they were the ones who actually got me into this sport in the first place, even if it was originally through a fun writer playing a video game badly.
This season the Dons and MK are in the same league again, as Wimbledon was relegated to League Two in 21-22 after several years in the third tier, and MK were relegated in 22-23. They're both having decent seasons and are in the hunt for playoff spots (MK are pushing for autos but I don't think they'll get it) with Wimbledon in a scrappy fight for the last spot with only a few games to go. It's very possible that they'll both make it and could face each other in the playoffs, which would obviously be huge and would be must-watch matches in my opinion. Here's hoping the Dons can go the distance, because they deserve it!
It is some story Luke, i remember when it happened, its true MK Dons were hated for doing it, if im remembering right the original Wimbledon F.C were in the Premier League when the move was announced, i was always of the opinion MK Dons should have been made to start in League Two at least, never underestimate the passion of the fans, another example is Bury F.C they were kicked out of the whole football pyramid because of debts, so the fans started again with the new Bury AFC at the non-league level, another one is some Man Utd fans who opposed the Glazers taking over formed their own club, F.C United of Manchester which is in the non-league right now
What is the current Bury situation,please?
@Isleofskye they're in the northwest counties premier division (the 9th tier) right now, the fans bought back their old stadium (Gigg lane), the name Bury F.C and their old memorabilia,hopefully they continue to thrive, it's really an inspiring story
@@mrmr5580 Fantastic. Good Luck :)
FC United of Manchester an others alike don't only oppose the new sets of owners they just feel like the premier league has lost its connection to grassroots football with all the money and stuff that goes around nowadays. And tbh I get it because its almost like they get to start from ground 0 all over again and create their own stories and history.
The FA and the government played a part in doing it. They tried to us MK as part of a world cup bid. That thankfully failed and they were all humiliated.
The Wimbledon Story is much more political than any of this brief history makes out, the original villain is Merton Council who denied Planning Permission to improve the original Plough Lane, and then there was an attempt to take the club to Dublin which had support within the UK Government. You can make this about Greedy owners but in reality the whole crisis starts because a Local Council refused to let Wimbledon bring their stadium up to the required standard and made them homeless.
Wow. Thank you for the insight, man. Seriously didn’t know this. 👍
I'd love to know the source for claiming that Winkleman thought he'd pick up the fans of the original team, it seems unlikely given how few of the fans could be bothered to travel to Selhurst Park!
Luke, i've been following you since months when you started to make videos about football, and i really like your points of view and thoughs and effort, but this is one of the best period, absolutely love it. Cheers from Argentina.
With regards to franchises moving, as an English basketball fan I see true American sport being the NCAA. I’ve been hooked by March madness this year.
It’s true. Our pro sports are really just sports entertainment. NCAA is our closest parallel to European sports
15:01 I have played this game since 1998, I’m addicted to it, hundreads maybe over a thousand hours a year on it lol I love it
AFC Wimbledon also spoke with my club Enfield Town who had done the same thing in 2001 (the first to do so) for similar reasons although because Enfield FC were only a non league club they didn't make the headlines as much .
I recall reading a fair bit about Enfield and Enfield Town at the time. It was before the internet though so less likelihood of seeing such articles as you relied on print media only. Watched Wycombe play Enfield a few times in our non-league days!
I've loved the fat Asian for years, back to when his channel was called BMOnus or something along those lines. Glad to see he's getting some appreciation recently. He honestly helped me get into soccer as much as I am when he came out with his clueless American series.
I actually stopped becoming a Raiders fan for that reason, if Mark Davis couldn’t be bothered to support the community of Oakland then why should I support his team?
Only small market teams move...not really mate. The LA Rams moved to St Louis before moving back and in Baseball the New York Giants moved to San Francisco and the Brooklyn Dodgers went to LA.
Raiders moved three times as well. Baltimore colts moved to Indianapolis, the the browns moved to Baltimore and became the ravens. Houston Oilers moved to Tennessee and became the titans
Huge markets all of them; usually the main reason is public money was offered to build stadia in the new cities and refused in their current one.
Seattle sonics moving to Oklahoma is another crazy one. The supersonics were a well supported team
If there’s another franchise moving one more time, I’ll start losing my count as if it hasn’t already.
I think the nearest scenario here for the American mind would be the Sonics being relocated to Oklahoma and becoming the OKC Thunder, except Seattle hasn't gotten their team back yet
There is a very good doc on TH-cam about how the Columbus Crew fans fought to stop their team being moved to Austin.
You should watch some of the copa 90 derby days.
Good shout.
An entire generation of fans have now grown up only knowing (and supporting) MK Dons.
While exceptionally rare in modern football, moving grounds (and even changing name to match) wasn't as uncommon in the early days of the sport. Hence why my team are known as Bolton Wanderers. (They played wherever a ground was available at one point.)
So while it's easy to understand the fans' anger at losing their traditional club, sooner or later it's gently forgotten and just becomes a part of club history.
Also common in early years was the merging of clubs or shifting within close proximity when they intend to identify as a club for a even bigger area. But all that was still acceptable .
As someone who was born after mk dons was founded , I fucking hate mk dons , I support Luton but afc Wimbledon is so clear of Mk dons
Yes, it used to happen a lot in the early days of football in England, but once clubs were established in a certain area they became part of the fabric of the local community and represented the people of that community and that is why the FA changed the the rules after the Wimbledon move to "Franchise-land" to stop this sort of thing happening again in the future. A football club in England belongs to its community, town or City.
Always love seeing you react to these nuances to football that are the opposite to What America is used to.
Wimbledon is the original Don. MK is just a franchise club.
Yes, Merton council could have done more to help the original Wimbledon fc find a new home in the local borough, but when the owner Sam Hammam was offered sites in the area he made excuses not to explore the possibilities and readily put the money from the sale of the original plough lane site into his own back pocket instead of putting the funds towards a new stadium.
@5:28 you see the Charlton badge outside Selhurst Park. Charlton were ground sharing there between 1985-91, we moved out and eventually got back home, Wimbledon moved in. Whilst we were at Selhurst we was approached to move to MK as well
Winkelman approached a few clubs about moving to MK. I recall reading that he tried with QPR.
@@jasonuk8333 yeah he did try with QPR as well and I think he even proposed a merger with us as part of his proposal. I remember reports of Winkleman pitching the deal to QPR fan groups and getting a very frosty reception.
22:13 He said March 2, 2022, but didn't it happen 4 weeks ago this year?
I totally agree with you. I think this would make a brilliant movie.
8:30 I think a lot of American franchises like to disguise their relocations by taking the names of older franchises in their new locations. The Charlotte Hornets were a different team in the 90’s, then New Orleans moved to Charlotte after the original Hornets were no more. The New York Yankees used to be the Baltimore Orioles-not affiliated with the current Baltimore Orioles. Ditto the Cleveland Browns, who lost their team in the early 90’s but were immediately granted a franchise that currently plays as the Cleveland Browns. The original Cleveland Browns are now the Baltimore Ravens, who lost their original franchise, the Colts, to Indianapolis.
Plough Lane became a bunch of flats in the end. There's a memorial outside.
I absolutely love that the real Dons refuse to call the franchise by that name
If you change the name, the badge and the kit colours you have no right to keep the nickname Dons
@@TDtog2112 even if they changed everything, the stain of their origins would still remain. Every other league in the country was either a founding member of the league they were in, or earned their spot in that league through promotion. The Franchise just went out and bought it. He could have done a Wrexham on their MK’s non-league side, or founded his own team at the bottom of the pyramid, instead he went out and purchased what every other team in the country had to earn: a spot in the league.
If they ditch the name, and *then* get relegated out of the league, then they can fight their way back up and earn some respect. Until then, they’re a fake team that shouldn’t exist
The Angels in 2005 did this mind boggling thing of re-locating to Los Angeles while not moving from Anaheim 😂 If you look into the history of NBA franchises, most of them have had relocations.
In the case of the Hornets, I’ve seen the Charlotte Hornets become the New Orleans Hornets. The Charlotte Bobcats then became an expansion. Then due to Katrina, they temporarily became the New Orleans/Oklahoma City Hornets (which opened up the market for the Seattle Sonics relocating to become the Oklahoma City Thunder). The Hornets became the Pelicans, the Charlotte Bobcats became the Charlotte Hornets. The history of the two is very convoluted.
Yeah the more I pulled at the thread the more I realized how desensitized I had become
Thank God for 50+1. I would never accept anyone besides the supporters owning my club.
there is an insane documentary by copa 90 about this. Copa 90 in general is a great channel to get to know football clubs, rivalries, etc
Two of them, actually
You really should check out the story of the Columbus Crew. As far as I can tell it's only time in American history that a team announced their intention to move and it didn't. It's a really cool story.
Can I recommend two films, related about the Fashanu brothers.
John who played for Wimbledon, and his older brother Justin.
Watch 'one in £1million ' first.
Then the secret that split these brothers.
I'm not either fan, when the original Wimbledon in 2003-04 season got relegated, they never went to non-league, they went to league one, relocated and renamed MK Dons, so there that continuation, they never dissolved like Newport or Accrington Stanley.
14:19 not a movie yet, though there are a few mini docs on TH-cam. I think I read somewhere that John Green owns teh films rights to this story and he wants to get it made, just a case of what part of the story they focus on
Across the 4 major North American sports leagues, just this century (I don't know how old you are, but all these will probably be during your life) these teams moved
2001 - NBA - Vancouver Grizzlies > Memphis Grizzlies
2002 - NBA - Charlotte Hornets > New Orleans Pelicans
2005 - MLB - Montreal Expos > Washington Nationals
2008 - NBA - Seattle Supersonics > Oklahoma City Thunder
2011 - NHL - Atlanta Thrashers > Winnipeg Jets
2012 - NBA - New Jersey Nets > Brooklyn Nets
2016 - NFL - St Louis Rams > Los Angeles Rams
2017 - NFL - San Diego Chargers > Los Angeles Chargers
2020 - NFL - Oakland Raiders > Las Vegas Raiders
Thats 9 in 24 years. Thats 1 team being moved away from it's fans roughly every 2.5 years.
It’s actually worse than that. Houston Oilers became the Tennessee Titans.
America doesn't have promotion and relegation, while the English are a deeply meritocratic people and will only tolerate a meritocratic game.
21:57: AFC Wimbledon have now won the first Wimbledon Derby at Plough Lane this month.
In a way, the American sporting system is a bit against American values. The draft system is kind of like socialism
If you watch HITC Seven, how Ireland nearly had a Premier league, as that talks about Wimbledon and the problem they had with Plough Lane.
I did a quick Google on US sports teams changing cities, and found a Wikipedia page showing that is has happened around 70 times across different US sports!!!
wait until you discover about fan owned clubs across the globe like FC United of Manchester, Union Berlin, etc. These phenomenon is called Punk Football and there is a documenter about it
With regards to 14:30 . There is a recent Zealand video called 'Why the US sucks at Football' which gives some good, if slightly limited, insight into this
"the ivy coast" 😂
Vinnie Jones who is now a fairly famous actor played for Wimbledon in the 80s and 90s
It's been emotional
huh ... for some reason id always thought the change had happened because the OG wimbledon had gone bust , and thus the remains were bought out and restarted as MK dons... not that they had been aggressively bought out and just swept away as part of that...
If you listen to the MK version, that is the bullshit story they come up with. Also, we Wimbledon fans were told that, "It would not be in the wider interests of football to restart as say, Wimbledon town fc" by the football authorities. And, although we protested so much against the move to MK, we were told that no matter what, that the move would still go ahead, and fans of "The Franchised" club to this day, still accuse Wimbledon fc fans of abandoning our club. We did not abandon our club, it was taken away from us, and therefore saw no point in continuing the protests and decided to start our own new club from nothing before the old Wimbledon fc were moved to MK. We started at level 9 of the English football pyramid at the same level as Milton Keynes City fc, an already locally established team in the MK area. Pete Winkelman wanted a team and it's place already established in the football league and stole it from Wimbledon fans. He claimed that it was impossible to raise a team up from level 9 to the football league, but we, AFC Wimbledon fans, PROVED HIM WRONG. In the process of moving WFC to MK, he also killed off Milton Keynes City fc.
Not sure if you have covered it. But maybe take a look at how Wigan athletic beat Manchester city in the FA cup Final in the 2012/2013 season and the fall from the prem that happened to Wigan. Or maybe take a look at Wigan Warriors Rugby League team and their history and all that goes with that. ( Yes I am from Wigan )
Wigan pier is famous for having a book named after it, The Road to Wigan Pier is a book by the English writer George Orwell, first published in 1937.
MK Dons 🤢🤮
I love the fact we got a nice American bloke with the dirtiest drill beat in the back
Tifo football would be a good channel to check out.
Im still disappointed that the fact vinnie jones played for the crazy gang wasnt included.
This similar stories also happens in USA for at least 2 separate occasions.. 1 in Detroit and 1 in Chattanooga.. Just info
9:02 you did see the two other massive NY baseball teams both move though, the Giants and Dodgers.
Also American teams make more than enough money to survive, there is no 'market' in a country as rich as the US that couldnt handle a pro sports teams, what holds them back are the shady powers at be that dont want to survive but want non stop greed.
Milton Keynes is in the Midlands not greater london
You should make Football Manager gameplay!🤝
Will you react to usmnt vs Mexico?
Aberdeen are the real Dons. thats a full stop!!
Less cups than Queen's Park and won hee haw for a decade ya 🐑 shegging bass
Would they not be called Aberdons in that case 🤣🤣🤣
This story missed one of the most interesting parts and thats that Wimbledon actually could have been moved to Dublin!
soccer isn't the first or even second biggest sports in Ireland behind Gaelic Football and Hurling, but it does have its own league and clubs, but since the rise of TV most Irish football fans have supported clubs across the water in England, particularly in City with high Irish immigration like Liverpool and Manchester (also tons support my team Celtic). Anyway a developer in Dublin basically tried to get Wimbledon to play in Ireland, as a premier league team in the foreign country, which to me would have been an even crazier story than going to Milton Keynes (which is like only 40 mins outside of London)
Another brilliant story, Luke, underpins the hatred Tottenham fans have for Arsenal, when Arsenal connived to get themselves unfairly promoted from 5th place in division two to division one, and also to get Tottenham unfairly relegated at the same time in 1919. Arsenal hold the current record for most consecutive years in the top flight as they have stayed in the top flight ever since that day - though they really have no right to be there. Everton FC, my club hold the second longest stint in the top flight even though that is looking hella precarious right now.
I am not a Wimbledon supporter though I loved this story and had a tear forming at the end but Everton,as you know, came back from 9/2 on the last day,the other year ,to win 3/2 to survive but they did EXACTLY the same when 0/2 down at half time at Goodison against Wimbledon(lol) in the most crooked game I have seen in attending since 1962. Everton, also,had to win that day and The Ref gave them the most ridiculous Penalty in the 2nd half to start to haul them back. You won't go down and with the new stadium,it should be happy, exciting times for Everton though a real xxxxx leaving the atmospheric Goodison. I hope they have arranged a Standing Home End at Bramley Moor. Have they, please?
"0/2" not "9/2" lol
Yeah that day against Wimbledon is seared on my memory. It was an outrageous comeback from 2-0 down. Seems to me that Hans Segers let a goal in - I don't know. Everton have discussed the possibility of safe standing at Bramley Moor Dock in light of the slightly underwhelming capacity of 53k which doesn't really live up to Nil Satis Nisi Optimum but nothing has been decided yet. The ground is, however, designed with a solid bank of fans behind the goal in the South stand. @@Isleofskye
One thing not mentioned is the Wimbledon Twitter account against MK Dons. The admin doesn’t recognise their existence ever. MK Dons aren’t mentioned at all by the Wimbledon account. Whenever they score it’s just “the opposition score” and they don’t include the badge on the graphics either. It’s really petty and I love it.
The football magazine 'When Saturday Comes' is great too. Even now when they do their regular season review/preview supplements (where representatives of each club answer a handful of questions about the season just gone, and the upcoming one), the MK Dons section always simply reads 'No questions asked'. Excellent.
AFC Wimbledon are the real dons.
The biggest difference is illustrated right at the end a '22yr rivalry is still quite young" Americans could never.
Watch the film United the story of Manchester United’s busby babes Munich air crash 1958 a team full of youngsters ruling Europe wiped out and the club rising again . It will move you man 💙
Also, that game happened this year. Twitter was all over this story for obvious reasons, and yes, football indeed won that day.
It's crazy a derby can just be created by a situation like this
It is not considered a derby by us Wimbledon fans.
80 miles difference in location is not a derby
American capitalism is crazy, you guys don't realize how almost comically dystopian their country is.
I personally know 3 x players of Wimbledon before all this nonsense, one who grew up only a few houses from me then went on to manage AFC Wimbledon, as a Chelsea fan it was pure joy seeing another one who I went to school with get turned inside out by gianfranco zola in the fa cup semi final in 97 to score whilst I was in the front row behind the goal.
Who put the ball in the franchise net?
I think pretty unanimously, AFC are seen as the continuation of the real Wimbledon. MK Are laughable, a stadium less than a quarter full and a pathetic fanbase.
Welcome to the slop of TH-cam...
The championship didn't exist back then Wimbledon were relegated to division 1
Maybe he should have said the second tier.
The NY Yankees were the NY highlanders between 1903-1912 so they have been something else 😉
Never understood the franchise system, how anyone could support a team taken from another city. If there's a city that doesn't have a team for whayever reason and there's people willing to invest finances to give it one, why not just invest in a brand new team if they know there's already a fanbase ready and willing to embrace a new team in their city?
That kind of works with a growing league like MLS, but with a mature league that already has 30-32 clubs at the top-flight level (the only level that American sports fandom really cares about because "if you aren't rooting for your team to win the national championship, then just what _are_ you rooting for them to win?"), you can only add so many before it becomes this gargantuan, unwieldy league.
The teams that end up moving in the US are generally the ones that don't have a large, vibrant fanbase to begin with--the clubs that would've folded if not for relocation. Not always, and there are always fans who get angry about it (see the Oakland A's protests last baseball season), but it's almost never the really big, popular clubs that relocate--or usually the ones with a lot of history in one place. For instance, the Boston Red Sox have been playing at the _same ground_ for 112 years, and there would be an uproar if they moved even a half-mile away due to the historic nature of both the team and the park, and of the team's connection to the park. Same with the Chicago Cubs, whose fanbase is so loyal that they stuck with the team through over a century-long trophy drought in a league where trophies are basically the only thing there is to play for. Even the somewhat more recent teams that are successful and have deep roots and large, loyal fanbases aren't just going to get up and move: Teams like the Kansas City, San Francisco, and Seattle teams aren't just going to get up and move in the foreseeable future.
When a team does settle in a new city, the fans generally react about the same as if a new club had been founded there. To them, it _is_ a new team.
@@philipmcniel4908 Interesting, I can understand new MLS franchises as the high level of interest in soccer in the US is still relatively recent. I was thinking more about the more established US sports like NFL and baseball which from your explanation sounds like a similar fan attitude as there is to football in the uk and Europe.
Most clubs in the uk began as part of the working community and overtime people stuck with them, the big trophies were like a holy grail among the lower leagues though they have their own trophies.
The fact of relegation and promotion allows lesser clubs down the leagues pyramid to dream of rising to the top. Plus they're all allowed to enter the annual fa cup, traditionally our version of the Superbowl. As this video shows, Wimbledon fc rose from outside the professional football league to the top division and won the fa cup.
@@roboi2241 I think there are some major differences between American sports and European sports that come down to geography, population distribution, and the diversity of sports that are popular here. The system with promotion and relegation has several advantages in Europe that it doesn't here:
-First, Europe has the population density to support truly local clubs (and by "local" I mean not only within two hours, but within half an hour--not like where I live in rural southern Oregon where people will drive three hours to see their local college football team play). This means that if your club gets relegated to an un-televised league, you can still go see it every weekend. Sports in the US are a TV experience for many Americans--especially in the western US which has a very low population density--because you might live several hours from your closest team, and you might make a couple of special trips to see them live during a season, but to follow them every week you really need TV (or online streaming nowadays).
This is admittedly a bigger deal in the more rural areas of the country such as where I live: I live in a town of 700 people, half an hour from the nearest other town (and their population is less than 2500!). There is no way we'd be able to support a local club in the European system--at least not one that would have any hope of making it out of the Sunday leagues--and our Sunday league rivals would all be a minimum of 3-4 hours away. (I know this, because our local high school sports teams _do_ commute that far to play other 1A schools, which are the smallest classification in high school sports here. I remember playing basketball for one year in high school, and we would sometimes get back to town at 2 a.m. after away games.)
-Which brings me to my second point: European countries are smaller, which means that they can break their amateur leagues up into reasonable-sized regions without having an unreasonable number of regional leagues, or an unreasonable number of steps to the pyramid. Working your way up from the 9th tier like Wimbledon is hard; imagine if they'd had to work their way up from the 56th tier or something like that--especially if there were 65 other regional leagues _at their level_ whose clubs were vying for the same promotion spots. (And promotion could be the financial kiss of death for a small club from the wilderness of Alaska, if they suddenly had to travel to the Lower 48 for all their away matches with a semipro team!)
Our equivalent to the FA Cup, the US Open Cup, is highly regionalized until most of the non-MLS, non-USL teams are out, because really, can you imagine your local 5th-tier side having to travel to Baku in the third round? (The distance from LA to NYC is essentially the same as from London to Baku.)
-Third, returning to my point about how you need to have a team to follow in a _televised_ league unless you live in a huge city (or follow local high school sports): With five top-flight leagues that are all very popular (the NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL, and now MLS), even the most popular professional second tier--Minor League Baseball--is rarely televised, and is a huge step down in popularity from the Big Five. With up to five major sports leagues to cover, there's just no TV airtime or newspaper print space left over for even a second-tier minor league most of the time, let alone a third tier. Same goes for sports fans' admissions money.
-Since our country spans a continent, and draws from a large population as a result, its top tier is more equivalent to the Champions League level of play than even the Premier League. That increases the gap between amateur and professional play _significantly._
It's not movie...but yeah it definitely should be (or maybe a tv series).
Particularly as the local Council to Wimbledon were villains by not allowing them to redevelop their ground effectively making them homeless and they nearly moved to Dublin
in Ireland and even though they were ground sharing for 10 years at Crystal Palace only 6 miles, their attendances plummeted in the Premier Division(where most teams have full stadiums and long waiting lists) and one crowd was the lowest ever recorded in the Topflight at 3,000+.....None of this was mentioned and they did not go into details about why Vinnie Jones(now hardman actor) and the others were known as "The Crazy Gang"...imagine all that on top of these facts:)
@@Isleofskye Totally agree. I think that's why, with so much to cram in, that maybe an 8 part series might be the best option.
@@eddhardy1054Great idea:)
@@Isleofskye Would they be able to persuade Vinnie Jones to play Dennis Wise though?
@@eddhardy1054He would be betterplaying the thug who grabbed Gazza:)
No movie. Hollywood would get involved and completely ruin the whole story.
They,usually,make real-life situations, into a unrealistic Fairy Tale but this already is:)
@Isleofskye yeah. In my mind, they'd alter it for a US audience that loves drama. Add things that never happened/don't need to be there or take away things that should be.
Americanise the whole thing. End up doing the people/club a huge disservice.
@@almostyummymummy Yes,very true,my friend:)
I’m an Mk dons fan didn’t expect this
Lol, the video didn’t paint the club in the best light. Guess there’s two sides to every story. Thanks for watching the video
@@lukessportsacademyI’m still watching but our fans are used to it and we kind of enjoy being the most hated in a way. It’s my local at the end of the day and I was born a year after it happened. Both teams are in the play offs in league two rn so there’s a chance we could end up facing each other to get promoted
@@lukessportsacademy There really isn't much of a best light for MK Dons. The lies and corruption that led to the theft of the old Wimbledon, and the FA's disgraceful decision to allow it is a stain on English football. Wimbledon's fans demonstrated that a suitable stadium could be built on the old Plough Lane site but Charles Koppel and co were never interested in staying there, going as far as to try and hold a meeting with local residents (vetting invitees for known Wimbledon fans) and encouraging them to protest any plans to build a new stadium, telling them that 'football fans are not the sort of people you want on your doorstep'. Fans of the franchise will always overlook the facts to pretend there was no choice and it was only about rescuing a football club, but it was really about business and a property deal (the stadium and surrounding stores) that required a football club to play there to get planning permission. It's such a shame the same business people could not start a new club or get behind a local non-league club that wanted their input and build them up. AFC Wimbledon showed how you could go from the lowest level to the football league in 9 years. Franchise fans could have genuine pride in their club if it had not just been handed a league place without earning one, and they had got it the same way AFC Wimbledon did.
"The London FA"?? It's the English FA - I know that Americans seem to think the 'London' is just another name for England, but London does NOT have its own Football Association!
The English FA over see the professional game. When the club restarted at the amateur level i.e. "non-league" they registered with the London FA.
There are many FA's throughout the country.
I find these English "gotchas" just come from them being ignorant about their own system and language. London FA was correct. You're just too English to be smart or humble.
they should make it into a movie and Vinnie jones should star
Bring back the sonics!
Ray Allen in that SuperSonics jersey was elite 🔥
Whilst I agree that many owners are greedy and driven by the wrong motivation I suspect the original Wimbledon owner simply got out of his depth.
Sam Hammam owned the original club during the 'crazy Gang' days and screwed them by selling the original Plough Lane and pocketing the money. He then sold the club at an inflated price to a couple of Norwegian guys who then installed Charles Koppel as chairman. Pete Winkelman (who had already tried and failed to get other clubs to move to Milton Keynes) got in touch and finally found owners who were happy to deal with him to give him the club he needed to get his property deal in MK sorted. They managed to con an FA commission into believing the club had no hope of a stadium in SW London, and could not survive, and the theft was done. The fans then left to set up AFC Wimbledon having been abandoned by their club, and they spent one further season playing at Selhurst Park in the Championship in front of an average crowd that AFCW exceeded in the Combined Counties League!
The real dons the Aberdeen so none 🤣🤣
Less cups than Queen's Park and won hee haw for a decade ya 🐑 shegging bass
@@ayeready6050 more European 🏆 tho oh I never been called a sheep 🐑 shagger before grow up 🤣🤣🤣
@@ayeready6050One Premier League trophy in your history. You've got a cheek.
@@borachon26 55 league titles. The most in football history. Stupit
@@ayeready6050 No you don't. Sevco have one title. I mean, you have a few lower league titles as well you might want to include. 🤣
The AFC Wimbledon story is a lot less heart warming when you hear about the state of Kingstonians, the original owners of Kingsmeadow. AFC Wimbledon sold the ground to Chelsea for Chelsea's women. It was nice of them to force a club to relocate and while they'll tell you that it was the fault of Kingstonians for not having enough money, they never seem to accept that is why Wimbledon had to leave! As another comment noted, Merton Council were the real villains in the piece with their refusal to allow the original WImbledon to redevelop Plough Lane, but nobody has their hands clean in this
The detail you conveniently leave out is that Kingstonian all but put themselves out of business by spending way beyond their means in the 90's and lost control of Kingsmeadow. The owner of the stadium had no interest in the club, not even allowing them to keep bar receipts at their matches. I'm sure it wasn't easy watching another club buy the lease of the stadium they once owned, but Kingstonian had around 18 years of paying a peppercorn rent, being able to keep bar receipts etc from their games. If Wimbledon had not purchased the lease Kingstonian would have been out of business or evicted back then. They had 18 years of having a home stadium with next to no rent, with Wimbledon picking up the tab for upkeep and improvements. They were then given a million to help them out when Wimbledon left. Show us another club that would have treated Kinsgtonian as well.
@@jasonuk8333 You mean like Wimbledon spending well beyond their means? But please keep pleading the case as supposed victims while doing the same to another club...
the real dons are mk dons the other lot are the fake dons, just posers, it's pathetic really 😭
Their is no longer a dons. Wimbledon fc is dead
AFC are the Dons it's in the name WimbleDON!!!
For this and all the other 'American's react' videos. Who actually cares what you think
Mk dons is the real club, wimbledon afc is the bootleg club
Another Franchise moron.
You Franchise Bastards you know who you are.