Great episode! In reference to 2:38 on feeling trauma from your experience leaving mormonism... Leaving the church, I felt like an abuse survivor. As a tough guy, privileged, apex member of the church my whole life, how could I feel liked I'd been abused? It was the recognition that a system had gotten in to my head and perverted my sense of right and wrong. This system and the mostly well-meaning people caught in it had taught me to *doubt my conscience* in order to protect that system. I was taught to "doubt my doubts" on coercive polygamy and misogyny, spiritual racism, false "revelations" and "miracles" etc etc. *If a system can distort your conscience, it can do anything.* I was shocked that someone/something had gotten in to my brain like that. Mind-f'd for 40 years, beginning as a child. I felt incredibly violated, abused and vulnerable. I was triggered by anything that seemed to be trying to re-indoctrinate me - the drum beat of "Believe! Believe! Believe!" (Church talks of course but even Christian radio. "Just believe!") It may sound minor and silly but I really do feel like an abuse survivor.
I’m like jumping out of my skin right now. I grew up in Thousand Oaks. The dances were epic. Dance festivals road shows omg I’m loving this connection with you
The apology for Prop 8 is an extremely important moment that hit me hard. I was passively involved in Prop 8 as an EQ prez in HB, and it's something I'm deeply ashamed about. I try to avoid regrets about my time in Mormonism, but I greatly regret that I went along with bigotry. I really appreciate his willingness to express his regret, but it's important to clarify that the LDS church (and its members) was by far the largest and most influential contributor to passing Prop 8.
As a 2nd gen ex-scientologist, I can't say I enjoyed hearing Randy say that heaven's gate is a cult, but Scientology, Jehova's witnesses etc are not. If he wants to distinguish between "suicide cults" and "destructive high control groups" then that would be fine by me. But leaving it as "HG is a cult and the others are ok" is a pretty blaring generalization and lack of nuance on his part. There's a spectrum of traits that define what is a high control destructive group and various organizations can have a higher or lesser degree of these. Addendum: Please don't treat this one piece of criticism as a blanket denouncement of all Randy said. Quite the opposite - I agree with the vast majority of what was discussed.
You're right. One of the peculiarities of cults is to actively prevent members from leaving them and Scientology is on the same level as Nxivm. What Ron Miscavige has told about his escape and consequent harassment is dreadful.
@@alexandrorocca7142 If I have to judge, I'd say Scientology is on the same level of "destructiveness" as the JWs. Same high level of control, financial abuse and shunning/disconnection. The thing they have worse than we did is their anti-education and anti-science stance that tends to keep members poor and underprivileged. What we had worse than they did were forced abortions and the high-tech professional surveillance of the members. But what I'm getting at is: There's degrees of "cultishness". The Catholic Church or Alcoholics Anonymous are both have just a very small part that is cultish, while Heaven's gate or Aum Shinrinkyo are close to being 100% cultish. So when we talk about this, I feel its important not to lose nuance and not fall into "black-and-white" language.
Also the depression of women. And disregard of people of color. And the psychological abuse of children. Just having your mind and entire reality warped. It's disgusting.
@@KitKat-gw4rh Yep. Scientology has all that as well, except maybe the 'depression of women'. We believed in sharing equal opportunity misery ;) The vast majority in of Scientology's top management structures in CMO and RTC are women.
I really like this guy. I can relate to much of his back story being raised in the entertainment business in California. Thank you for all your incredible videos♥️
Great interview. Randy seems like a genuine empath and his heartfelt apologies are valuable. I remember my bishopric calling and trying to verbally coerce me about how they wanted me to vote on Prop 8. It was one of my shelf-breakers.
Randy, I too walked on the dark. 3 months ago I I renewed my recommend.. haven’t had one in 20 years.A week later I looked on line for garments. Well, that was the beginning of the end, I have been reading, listening and writing for 4 months now. I have plenty of time now because I’m 65! It is my new found purpose to learn EVERYTHING! Keep up the good work, new friend.💋
OMG Uncle Randy! I'm good friends with your Blunck family! Love them. I met you a few times back in the 90s. You're a pleasure to listen to. I feel similar to where you are in many ways. ❤️
Glad to hear about someone else who wasn't taught that Joseph practiced polygamy among many other things. According to most of the defenders of the faith, we just missed it! At least I know there are 5 or 6 of us who didn't know these details.
In the MTC they showed us a video of the love story between him and Emma. Of course, no mention of any other wives. I didn't know or even consider this happened until confronted with it in the "mission field". Crazy.
Can we please refrain from using the phrase "Lost your faith"? Those of us who have moved beyond Mormonism have not lost our faith . We have found the truth
This is a great episode. I wish I had someone to talk to about my faith crisis. I have no one who I dare share this with, only comments on Mormon Stories.
Singles in church at 1:49:00. Whether it's never married or divorced singles it is a problem. The church leaders in SLC have known since 2007 that the majority of people in the church are single adults. Yet the narrative still centers around eternal marriage and families sealed for eternity.
I graduated high school the same year as Randy, and I had an experience similar to Randy's when I was about 11 or so! Our primary class, boys only, were taken into a room where we were addressed by three men, our Bishop, one of his assistants and a local judge who also was my neighbor though we had never spoken, and I suspect might have been a high priest or stake president! They laid a heavy conversation on us, telling us that all men had a part of their bodies that could save them from Hell and they asked us to guess what it was! There were about 6 of us young boys, and we guessed every part of the male body we could trying to avoid the obvious male part, until one boy laughingly said the obvious part they wanted us to mention! They reinforced that his answer was correct as we all laughed! It was tough for us to believe the part we urinated with had that power, but we had these three men telling us it was so! We didn't understand their inference! They also came down hard on us attempting to squash any belief that we might have had, that we evolved from apes! They were almost challenging us to speak up and disagree, and they were so intimidating, the laughter had turned to a very uncomfortable silence!
It's so beautiful to hear all the ways you've grown and had your eyes opened to all these issues. Your empathy is palpable. Knowing this, I sincerely can't understand why you wouldn't classify Mormonism as a cult. It's really confusing for me to hear and try to understand.
Plural marriage and Fanny Alger at 1:59:00. There were generations of LDS members who were taught that JS never practiced polygamy in the flesh. I remember Relief Society sisters were told JS was sealed only to Emma Smith. However she is listed in church records as the 23rd wife sealed to JS. The fact is a lot of information that for generations was dismissed as "anti" by church leaders and members is now on the church website as historically true.
I was taught growing up that he didn't practice polygamy and was only married to Emma and I'm in my late 20s. As a kid I remember movies coming out about them and their love story. It's wild to think that only very recently was the truth put out on the church website and I firmly believe that they only did so because it's a lot harder to hide things thanks to the internet.
“Brother Randy, we felt inspired to call you as a seminary teacher” Proceeds to tell them how that calling doesn’t work AT ALL with his work schedule Bishopric slink away in failure not connecting the dots that they have absolutely NO divine inspiration AT ALL! How didn’t so many of us connect the dots earlier? Crazy
When I was called to scouts it conflicted with my work schedule. The bishopric counselor had the high ego to ask me why I couldn't just quit my job and find time for the Lord? Gross.
My Mormon days were mostly in Sacramento, CA. I graduated in HS 1981 and yes, the church dances had live bands out here. They may not have been of the same caliber as the bands Randy’s ward/stake hired, but they were good quality local acts. I’m a musician and play guitar, bass and mandolin. I’m a long-time Fender dude and favor Stratocasters & Jazz Basses. I’d love to take Randy out to dinner the next time I’m down in Laguna and hear some of the stories about Fender. As an aside, my very Mormon grandfather lived in Rossmore’s Leisure World in Laguna Hills and I spent a lot of time down there during summers helping him and my grandmother out. Laguna Beach and Dana Point were two places I recall well. Oh, toilet papering was a Universal right of passage when I was in HS in Sacramento. There were some other pranks that I’ll not discuss publicly as I’m not sure if the stature of limitations have run out. lol Randy…you only encountered 2 or 3 rude Brits? Are you sure you were in Birmingham, in the Midlands? lol
I loved the podcast, great hearing Randy Bell's story. I was struck with the fact that he undertook this massive journey of exploration but it seemed he immediately shut down other philosophies or religions with what sounded like a superficial look, like what he said about Judaism, and immediately leaned into his biases in regards to Christianity, I am not sure he scrutinized this as much as he thinks he has. I am also very skeptical of people that constantly drop people's qualifications they rely on. So in so from Harvard, or this guy from Yale, etc... I did really enjoy the podcast, and I am sure worse as far as gaps in my own thinking.
Book of Abraham at 2:22:34. The church gospel topics essays take on this issue is interesting. The essay says we can never fully verify the historicity of the BA. The BA is now seen as a series of fragments. Academics in and out of church church admit the word "Abraham" is never mentioned in the fragments we have today from the original scroll. Some people are now saying we can look at the BA as "inspiration" just like JS and the Book of Moses. But this again is in contradiction to what I was taught in the 1990s. The BA was viewed as a translation similar to the golden plates of the BM. JS was said to have translated the BA papyrus scroll with a scribe (Oliver Cowdery) into English from reformed Egyptian.
Powerful segment here! Love this. He speaks about the damaging "Worthiness Interviews" which are conducted by Bishops with children and youth. Perhaps MORMON STORIES will consider inviting researcher & published author: Thomas Hubl to speak about "Generational Trauma" & how to heal from trauma. His book: HEALING COLLECTIVE TRAUMA: A Process for Integrating our Intergenerational and Cultural Wounds.
I,like Randy got called to Birmingham, England 🇬🇧 for my mission and at the time, felt like God had to know me and the church was true, because Duran Duran was from there!
Great interview but I really can’t understand why anybody would want “to be fair” to the Mormon church regarding the fact other organisations and faiths were involved in opposing equal marriage / Prop 8. It doesn’t matter. They were involved, extensively, period.
Talking about listeners who are not Mormon. I am Christian brought up low church Episcopalian. I have many Mormon friends and I have a high interest in their faith and their welfare as all of these testimonials continue to pour out.
While I understand how Dr. Randy was complacent in his religion, perhaps his professional life didn't leave him any "energy" to pursue "the truth" about polyandry, etc. Peace ♥️🙏♥️
I read somewhere, maybe it was Joseph Smith Rough Stone Rolling that the girl he married was probably 17- is there proof on that? Just curious. But it’s amazing to me that everyone who hears that she was 14 justifies it by saying that it was normal back then- and so then I read that’s not true- that the average age of a girl getting married then was 20. Interesting
Great episode! I've been loving this podcast, however, I do have one minor criticism/complaint, and that's that agnosticism and atheism seem to keep getting used synonymously. This is especially frustrating when it happens just after someone describes they're beliefs as being agnostic, but then quickly say "oh but I'm not atheist/agnostic." The similarities between the two begin and end with not belonging to or following any one specific religion or spiritual beliefs. You can still believe in the potential of God's existence and follow the values of Jesus' teachings and be agnostic. In fact, that's what being agnostic is really all about. It's about respecting everyone's beliefs and values and keeping an open mind to the possibility of God, though with a healthy dose of skepticism and recognition that there's no way to know which religion or God is the one true correct one. Atheists, on the other hand, keep a firm belief that there is no god and that everyone who does believe in a god/gods has it wrong.
I know it’s probably on the podcast but I got confused. What exactly is this man’s job that he witnessed so many horrible disasters and tragedies? I’m sure he has helped a lot of people, but that job would be so rough.
I'm really curious about this, in a sincere way. Why polyandry? Because women have more than one husband? Like the polygamy is ok because the guy has more partners? It's just women that can't. Or it's more like almost forced polyandry? In that case polyandry isn't really the problem... the men who are orchestrating it are the problem. I think if that's the case there should be a better word for it. Because anger against polyandry kind of sounds like a toxic patriarchal thing. Just my thoughts. And I'd love to hear yours.
@@KitKat-gw4rh oh I see your point. I think Because I am married and I don’t know how I would react if I am told my wife isn’t my wife anymore, makes sense?
@@mormonstories They actually have had a number of interviews with people who don't believe Joseph practiced polygamy. Rock Waterman comes to mind as well as a few of the interviews that John did with followers of Denver Snuffer (Karen and Kirk Strong and Matt Lohmeier). Denver Snuffer was interviewed as well and he may have discussed it.
In case anyone thinks some of this is in the past, Huntington Beach City Council just voted to ban pride flags from government buildings and is trying to censor library books.
Carah, I’d like to hear YOUR Mormon Story.. maybe I’ve missed it???!?! Or stories like yours, from “debunking” Mormonism, then turning to Christianity only to later “debunk” that religion too.. 🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽💝
Mr Bell I would challenge you, as a Christian, to study the Bible from a true historical position. God loves every life he created, but our experiences- even if tragic- don’t change Gods word. He is sovereign and good and He can be trusted. You need to separate your Mormon experience from biblical accuracy!
Hi John, Forgive me if I'm mistaken, but in a podcast last year, you spoke of how you were sharing with people that you believed God didn't exist and you were comfortable if life were just an accident and our consciousness/existence ended with death! You said you were sharing that feeling/belief or position with people you knew! Now you say you are neither agnostic nor atheist! I don't understand! You don't claim to believe in God and now you claim you're neither atheist nor agnostic! I see four potential posessions to adopt! 1) Believer, 2) Athiest, 3) Agnostic and 4) Gnostic. Fear and indoctrination tend to cause many people to believe! Increased availability to information, facts, has caused many people's pendulum to shift from far right to far left, when infact the info was relative to the messenger and not God! If God allowed JS to be such, how can God exist logic! The agnostic is typically a neutral default position, willing to move either way, to believer or atheist in the presence of knowledge! Problem here is if one possesses knowledge God exists, one is elevated from the believer stance to Gnostic, one who knows! Thus an agnostic cannot become a believer if knowledge becomes present, but can become an atheist if knowledge leads there! As believer is no longer available to you, as you claim to not be an atheist, as you make not claim to be a Gnostic, how are you not an agnostic? Isn't Agnostic the default position while one is unsure of ones stance? If I'm missing something, please enlightening me! Best wishes
John is an atheist but refuses to use the term because he believes it puts him in a group or box for people to become tribal about. He will say he doesn’t believe but hopes and stuff like that. Also, your terminology needs updating. There are two positions theist or atheist. Gnostic and agnostic are about knowledge, not belief. You can be a gnostic theist, agnostic theist, agnostic atheist, or gnostic atheist. It’s just saying whether to say you know god does or doesn’t exist.
Also, theism and atheism both address one proposition. On the question “do you believe god exists?” If you believe you are a theist, if you don’t you are an atheist. That’s it. There are only those two positions. A baby without a belief in god is an atheist. Any thinking agent or entity that does not believe in god is an atheist.
@@carolynaitken7632 im not sure I agree with that, but I can understand what you mean and will rephrase. Maybe I should say anyone or anything with the capacity to believe is an atheist until they become a theist.
Great episode! In reference to 2:38 on feeling trauma from your experience leaving mormonism... Leaving the church, I felt like an abuse survivor. As a tough guy, privileged, apex member of the church my whole life, how could I feel liked I'd been abused? It was the recognition that a system had gotten in to my head and perverted my sense of right and wrong. This system and the mostly well-meaning people caught in it had taught me to *doubt my conscience* in order to protect that system. I was taught to "doubt my doubts" on coercive polygamy and misogyny, spiritual racism, false "revelations" and "miracles" etc etc. *If a system can distort your conscience, it can do anything.* I was shocked that someone/something had gotten in to my brain like that. Mind-f'd for 40 years, beginning as a child. I felt incredibly violated, abused and vulnerable. I was triggered by anything that seemed to be trying to re-indoctrinate me - the drum beat of "Believe! Believe! Believe!" (Church talks of course but even Christian radio. "Just believe!") It may sound minor and silly but I really do feel like an abuse survivor.
I’m like jumping out of my skin right now. I grew up in Thousand Oaks. The dances were epic. Dance festivals road shows omg I’m loving this connection with you
Great description of what you experienced. I would read your memoir. Anyway, glad you took the time to write what you did.
Third (maybe fourth) time watching this tremendous episode! Thank you to Randy, John, Carah, and Mormon Stories.
This guy was an absolute pleasure to listen to....Thanks John and Crew ❤
The apology for Prop 8 is an extremely important moment that hit me hard. I was passively involved in Prop 8 as an EQ prez in HB, and it's something I'm deeply ashamed about. I try to avoid regrets about my time in Mormonism, but I greatly regret that I went along with bigotry. I really appreciate his willingness to express his regret, but it's important to clarify that the LDS church (and its members) was by far the largest and most influential contributor to passing Prop 8.
As a 2nd gen ex-scientologist, I can't say I enjoyed hearing Randy say that heaven's gate is a cult, but Scientology, Jehova's witnesses etc are not. If he wants to distinguish between "suicide cults" and "destructive high control groups" then that would be fine by me. But leaving it as "HG is a cult and the others are ok" is a pretty blaring generalization and lack of nuance on his part.
There's a spectrum of traits that define what is a high control destructive group and various organizations can have a higher or lesser degree of these.
Addendum: Please don't treat this one piece of criticism as a blanket denouncement of all Randy said. Quite the opposite - I agree with the vast majority of what was discussed.
You're right. One of the peculiarities of cults is to actively prevent members from leaving them and Scientology is on the same level as Nxivm. What Ron Miscavige has told about his escape and consequent harassment is dreadful.
@@alexandrorocca7142 If I have to judge, I'd say Scientology is on the same level of "destructiveness" as the JWs. Same high level of control, financial abuse and shunning/disconnection.
The thing they have worse than we did is their anti-education and anti-science stance that tends to keep members poor and underprivileged.
What we had worse than they did were forced abortions and the high-tech professional surveillance of the members.
But what I'm getting at is: There's degrees of "cultishness". The Catholic Church or Alcoholics Anonymous are both have just a very small part that is cultish, while Heaven's gate or Aum Shinrinkyo are close to being 100% cultish. So when we talk about this, I feel its important not to lose nuance and not fall into "black-and-white" language.
Yeah this is one point I have to disagree with him. I feel an LGBT ally would know better. But maybe he hasn't heard of all our deaths and suicides.
Also the depression of women. And disregard of people of color. And the psychological abuse of children. Just having your mind and entire reality warped. It's disgusting.
@@KitKat-gw4rh Yep. Scientology has all that as well, except maybe the 'depression of women'. We believed in sharing equal opportunity misery ;)
The vast majority in of Scientology's top management structures in CMO and RTC are women.
I really like this guy. I can relate to much of his back story being raised in the entertainment business in California. Thank you for all your incredible videos♥️
Great interview. Randy seems like a genuine empath and his heartfelt apologies are valuable. I remember my bishopric calling and trying to verbally coerce me about how they wanted me to vote on Prop 8. It was one of my shelf-breakers.
Randy, I too walked on the dark. 3 months ago I I renewed my recommend.. haven’t had one in 20 years.A week later I looked on line for garments. Well, that was the beginning of the end, I have been reading, listening and writing for 4 months now. I have plenty of time now because I’m 65! It is my new found purpose to learn EVERYTHING!
Keep up the good work, new friend.💋
I love Randy Bell! Great to hear his story.
OMG Uncle Randy! I'm good friends with your Blunck family! Love them. I met you a few times back in the 90s. You're a pleasure to listen to. I feel similar to where you are in many ways. ❤️
“This just feels sketchy.” ~ 7yr old Randy is all of us.
Glad to hear about someone else who wasn't taught that Joseph practiced polygamy among many other things. According to most of the defenders of the faith, we just missed it! At least I know there are 5 or 6 of us who didn't know these details.
In the MTC they showed us a video of the love story between him and Emma. Of course, no mention of any other wives. I didn't know or even consider this happened until confronted with it in the "mission field". Crazy.
My husband served a mission and hadn't heard Joseph was a polygamist until I told him a couple years ago
Every single Mormon story I’ve heard (not the podcast) said they were never taught this, among many other historical facts. I’d say my number is @50..
I knew about it, but I lived in South East Texas and I can't remember if I learned about it in church or from my friend's Baptist preachers...
I never heard JS was a polygamist until last year. I have been a member of the church for 24 years.
Can we please refrain from using the phrase "Lost your faith"?
Those of us who have moved beyond Mormonism have not lost our faith .
We have found the truth
So true!
Awesome interview. Can’t wait to listen to part 2.
This is a great episode. I wish I had someone to talk to about my faith crisis. I have no one who I dare share this with, only comments on Mormon Stories.
I too remember going to church twice on Sunday. Sunday school in the am and Sacrament meetings in the afternoon/evening.
FAV FAV FAV! Need my TBM dh to hear Randy's journey. Thank you so much for this episode.
😂 My friends used to Listen to Led Zeppelin during their Dungeons and Dragons sessions lol. But I love Zeppelin now.
Excellent program!!
Thank you.
One of my favourites chapters. I learned A LOT
Singles in church at 1:49:00. Whether it's never married or divorced singles it is a problem. The church leaders in SLC have known since 2007 that the majority of people in the church are single adults. Yet the narrative still centers around eternal marriage and families sealed for eternity.
Thanks!
Great interview
I graduated high school the same year as Randy, and I had an experience similar to Randy's when I was about 11 or so! Our primary class, boys only, were taken into a room where we were addressed by three men, our Bishop, one of his assistants and a local judge who also was my neighbor though we had never spoken, and I suspect might have been a high priest or stake president! They laid a heavy conversation on us, telling us that all men had a part of their bodies that could save them from Hell and they asked us to guess what it was! There were about 6 of us young boys, and we guessed every part of the male body we could trying to avoid the obvious male part, until one boy laughingly said the obvious part they wanted us to mention! They reinforced that his answer was correct as we all laughed! It was tough for us to believe the part we urinated with had that power, but we had these three men telling us it was so! We didn't understand their inference! They also came down hard on us attempting to squash any belief that we might have had, that we evolved from apes! They were almost challenging us to speak up and disagree, and they were so intimidating, the laughter had turned to a very uncomfortable silence!
Thank you for all of this. 🤍
Creeps
It's so beautiful to hear all the ways you've grown and had your eyes opened to all these issues. Your empathy is palpable. Knowing this, I sincerely can't understand why you wouldn't classify Mormonism as a cult. It's really confusing for me to hear and try to understand.
Cognitive dissonance, he's slowly waking up. I have much empathy for everyone's personal process.
Plural marriage and Fanny Alger at 1:59:00. There were generations of LDS members who were taught that JS never practiced polygamy in the flesh. I remember Relief Society sisters were told JS was sealed only to Emma Smith. However she is listed in church records as the 23rd wife sealed to JS. The fact is a lot of information that for generations was dismissed as "anti" by church leaders and members is now on the church website as historically true.
I was taught growing up that he didn't practice polygamy and was only married to Emma and I'm in my late 20s. As a kid I remember movies coming out about them and their love story. It's wild to think that only very recently was the truth put out on the church website and I firmly believe that they only did so because it's a lot harder to hide things thanks to the internet.
“Brother Randy, we felt inspired to call you as a seminary teacher”
Proceeds to tell them how that calling doesn’t work AT ALL with his work schedule
Bishopric slink away in failure not connecting the dots that they have absolutely NO divine inspiration AT ALL! How didn’t so many of us connect the dots earlier? Crazy
Yeah that made me chuckle as well.
When I was called to scouts it conflicted with my work schedule. The bishopric counselor had the high ego to ask me why I couldn't just quit my job and find time for the Lord? Gross.
My Mormon days were mostly in Sacramento, CA. I graduated in HS 1981 and yes, the church dances had live bands out here. They may not have been of the same caliber as the bands Randy’s ward/stake hired, but they were good quality local acts.
I’m a musician and play guitar, bass and mandolin. I’m a long-time Fender dude and favor Stratocasters & Jazz Basses. I’d love to take Randy out to dinner the next time I’m down in Laguna and hear some of the stories about Fender.
As an aside, my very Mormon grandfather lived in Rossmore’s Leisure World in Laguna Hills and I spent a lot of time down there during summers helping him and my grandmother out. Laguna Beach and Dana Point were two places I recall well.
Oh, toilet papering was a Universal right of passage when I was in HS in Sacramento. There were some other pranks that I’ll not discuss publicly as I’m not sure if the stature of limitations have run out. lol
Randy…you only encountered 2 or 3 rude Brits? Are you sure you were in Birmingham, in the Midlands? lol
Such a brilliant man with amazing experiences to share.
I remember all of this. We’d go to the beach after church.
Omg yes the dances were amazing.
Thousand Oaks the best.
I loved the podcast, great hearing Randy Bell's story. I was struck with the fact that he undertook this massive journey of exploration but it seemed he immediately shut down other philosophies or religions with what sounded like a superficial look, like what he said about Judaism, and immediately leaned into his biases in regards to Christianity, I am not sure he scrutinized this as much as he thinks he has.
I am also very skeptical of people that constantly drop people's qualifications they rely on. So in so from Harvard, or this guy from Yale, etc...
I did really enjoy the podcast, and I am sure worse as far as gaps in my own thinking.
Book of Abraham at 2:22:34. The church gospel topics essays take on this issue is interesting. The essay says we can never fully verify the historicity of the BA. The BA is now seen as a series of fragments. Academics in and out of church church admit the word "Abraham" is never mentioned in the fragments we have today from the original scroll. Some people are now saying we can look at the BA as "inspiration" just like JS and the Book of Moses. But this again is in contradiction to what I was taught in the 1990s. The BA was viewed as a translation similar to the golden plates of the BM. JS was said to have translated the BA papyrus scroll with a scribe (Oliver Cowdery) into English from reformed Egyptian.
What an incredible interview!
Thank you for addressing overt and covert child abuse ❤ we HAVE to treat our kids better.
Powerful segment here! Love this. He speaks about the damaging "Worthiness Interviews" which are conducted by Bishops with children and youth. Perhaps MORMON STORIES will consider inviting researcher & published author: Thomas Hubl to speak about "Generational Trauma" & how to heal from trauma. His book:
HEALING COLLECTIVE TRAUMA:
A Process for Integrating our Intergenerational and Cultural Wounds.
Such a humble and inteleget man!
AND L ove cara🥰
At 1:54:03. How does someone not know as an adult and RM that JS practiced plural marriage? I knew about this before I was baptized back in the 1990s.
It was never taught to me, dh, and hence our children. It was not in church textbooks req'd to be the source for all lessons.
This was really interesting! Thank you! 🤘
I'm the same as you Randy. It hit me hard too, and I said these are values I cannot defend ever again!
If you cant have sex and you cant drink, whats the point of going to university? You never could have sold that to me when i was 18 😂
Mormon night at Disneyland! Huntington Beach was my location. 1961-1977.
I also Loved Bill Reel's excellent commentary !
I,like Randy got called to Birmingham, England 🇬🇧 for my mission and at the time, felt like God had to know me and the church was true, because Duran Duran was from there!
Great interview but I really can’t understand why anybody would want “to be fair” to the Mormon church regarding the fact other organisations and faiths were involved in opposing equal marriage / Prop 8. It doesn’t matter. They were involved, extensively, period.
JD TPing and also honking when you passed someone house who was popular was my West Texas experience.
Seven thousand years was since the fall of Adam and Eve. How long did Adam and Eve stay in the garden was uncertain.
Talking about listeners who are not Mormon. I am Christian brought up low church Episcopalian. I have many Mormon friends and I have a high interest in their faith and their welfare as all of these testimonials continue to pour out.
Was it just me that couldn't finish part one? Seems like it ended mid sentence. Anyone else experienced the interview cut short?
We uploaded a new version that had the whole interview. Sorry about that!!!
@@mormonstories no problem!
“My BS meter is on “ love that
Bless him for Searching for 'common ground ' great point !
While I understand how Dr. Randy was complacent in his religion, perhaps his professional life didn't leave him any "energy" to pursue "the truth" about polyandry, etc. Peace ♥️🙏♥️
I assume he meant Chapman in Fullerton not the one in Orange
❤️ “There’s a lot of ways to be a Christian.”
I read somewhere, maybe it was Joseph Smith Rough Stone Rolling that the girl he married was probably 17- is there proof on that? Just curious. But it’s amazing to me that everyone who hears that she was 14 justifies it by saying that it was normal back then- and so then I read that’s not true- that the average age of a girl getting married then was 20. Interesting
He married a 14 year old, a 17 year old, and many in between!!!
Dang! Steve Young himself repeated that BY quote in an interview. 😁
Great episode! I've been loving this podcast, however, I do have one minor criticism/complaint, and that's that agnosticism and atheism seem to keep getting used synonymously. This is especially frustrating when it happens just after someone describes they're beliefs as being agnostic, but then quickly say "oh but I'm not atheist/agnostic."
The similarities between the two begin and end with not belonging to or following any one specific religion or spiritual beliefs. You can still believe in the potential of God's existence and follow the values of Jesus' teachings and be agnostic. In fact, that's what being agnostic is really all about. It's about respecting everyone's beliefs and values and keeping an open mind to the possibility of God, though with a healthy dose of skepticism and recognition that there's no way to know which religion or God is the one true correct one. Atheists, on the other hand, keep a firm belief that there is no god and that everyone who does believe in a god/gods has it wrong.
I know it’s probably on the podcast but I got confused. What exactly is this man’s job that he witnessed so many horrible disasters and tragedies? I’m sure he has helped a lot of people, but that job would be so rough.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randall_Bell
I never heard of LDS Mormon until 1983
Poliandry is what makes my blood boil.
I'm really curious about this, in a sincere way. Why polyandry? Because women have more than one husband? Like the polygamy is ok because the guy has more partners? It's just women that can't. Or it's more like almost forced polyandry? In that case polyandry isn't really the problem... the men who are orchestrating it are the problem. I think if that's the case there should be a better word for it. Because anger against polyandry kind of sounds like a toxic patriarchal thing. Just my thoughts. And I'd love to hear yours.
@@KitKat-gw4rh he would marry women that were already married. That’s why it makes me upset
I am not saying polygamy is ok, I am saying that among other things poliandry is one of the worst.
Totally. I guess what I don't understand is why is it deemed worse for a married woman to be taken advantage of than a single woman.
@@KitKat-gw4rh oh I see your point. I think Because I am married and I don’t know how I would react if I am told my wife isn’t my wife anymore, makes sense?
You should do a follow up and ask non Mormons like me if we were ever investigators
Graduated from CSU Fullerton mathematics
On principle Orange County persons are somewhat disconnected from everyday events. Enough said.
Would you consider having someone on that believes Joseph didn't practice polygamy?
Maybe.
@@mormonstories They actually have had a number of interviews with people who don't believe Joseph practiced polygamy. Rock Waterman comes to mind as well as a few of the interviews that John did with followers of Denver Snuffer (Karen and Kirk Strong and Matt Lohmeier). Denver Snuffer was interviewed as well and he may have discussed it.
I’m not Mormon so I don’t know anything about the Temple…. what about the temple is shocking??
What about Alongonquin indians of eastern Canada. Didn’t Hebrew dna show up in this tribe.
In case anyone thinks some of this is in the past, Huntington Beach City Council just voted to ban pride flags from government buildings and is trying to censor library books.
Same age as RFM.
I'm from yorba linda, anaheim, bellflower, dana point
PS. 65, female, 4kids, divorced very TBM, Texas/ Utah…. So cliché ☺️
Toilet paper a house in 1964 and egging
💛
Carah, I’d like to hear YOUR Mormon Story.. maybe I’ve missed it???!?! Or stories like yours, from “debunking” Mormonism, then turning to Christianity only to later “debunk” that religion too.. 🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽💝
www.mormonstories.org/podcast/carah-burrell-tiktoks-nuancehoe/
Mr Bell I would challenge you, as a Christian, to study the Bible from a true historical position. God loves every life he created, but our experiences- even if tragic- don’t change Gods word. He is sovereign and good and He can be trusted. You need to separate your Mormon experience from biblical accuracy!
Hi John,
Forgive me if I'm mistaken, but in a podcast last year, you spoke of how you were sharing with people that you believed God didn't exist and you were comfortable if life were just an accident and our consciousness/existence ended with death! You said you were sharing that feeling/belief or position with people you knew! Now you say you are neither agnostic nor atheist! I don't understand!
You don't claim to believe in God and now you claim you're neither atheist nor agnostic! I see four potential posessions to adopt! 1) Believer, 2) Athiest, 3) Agnostic and 4) Gnostic.
Fear and indoctrination tend to cause many people to believe! Increased availability to information, facts, has caused many people's pendulum to shift from far right to far left, when infact the info was relative to the messenger and not God! If God allowed JS to be such, how can God exist logic! The agnostic is typically a neutral default position, willing to move either way, to believer or atheist in the presence of knowledge! Problem here is if one possesses knowledge God exists, one is elevated from the believer stance to Gnostic, one who knows! Thus an agnostic cannot become a believer if knowledge becomes present, but can become an atheist if knowledge leads there! As believer is no longer available to you, as you claim to not be an atheist, as you make not claim to be a Gnostic, how are you not an agnostic? Isn't Agnostic the default position while one is unsure of ones stance? If I'm missing something, please enlightening me!
Best wishes
I’m sure that you’ve heard the saying Sid and a very true one, “To be a liar you have got to have a good memory”
John is an atheist but refuses to use the term because he believes it puts him in a group or box for people to become tribal about. He will say he doesn’t believe but hopes and stuff like that. Also, your terminology needs updating. There are two positions theist or atheist.
Gnostic and agnostic are about knowledge, not belief. You can be a gnostic theist, agnostic theist, agnostic atheist, or gnostic atheist. It’s just saying whether to say you know god does or doesn’t exist.
Also, theism and atheism both address one proposition. On the question “do you believe god exists?” If you believe you are a theist, if you don’t you are an atheist. That’s it. There are only those two positions. A baby without a belief in god is an atheist. Any thinking agent or entity that does not believe in god is an atheist.
@@ScottBub A baby cannot be an atheist because he or she is too young to understand anything yet, but I can understand not wanting to be categorised.
@@carolynaitken7632 im not sure I agree with that, but I can understand what you mean and will rephrase. Maybe I should say anyone or anything with the capacity to believe is an atheist until they become a theist.