Let us know your cable-related horror stories!! My Patreon: www.patreon.com/cuivlazygeek My Merch Store: cuiv.myspreadshop.com/ Cable Organizers: www.etsy.com/shop/SmartComponents Amazon affiliate: amzn.to/49XTx01 Agena affiliate: bit.ly/3Om0hNG High Point Scientific affiliate: bit.ly/3lReu8R First Light Optics affiliate: tinyurl.com/yxd2jkr2 All-Star Telescope affiliate: bit.ly/3SCgVbV Astroshop.eu Affiliate: tinyurl.com/2vafkax8 From Nick, one of my Patreon Supporters: I also had cables going bad, but the reason wasn't kinks or interference but corrosion in the connectors. These connectors are not designed for outdoor use and condensation will eventually form and corrode the metal parts. The oxidation on the surface of the metal contacts creates parasitic resistance which interferes with the data transfer. This is the reason the cables initially work and then fail. The solution is to replace the bad cables or use a drop of contact cleaner solution (sold in electronics stores).
had this loads of times in the last 20 years and also usb hubs. and its so weird how they can stop working with just 1 camera but work fine on another and vice versa. USB has always been unreliable for me and imaging. And doesnt seem to matter if they are cheap or expensive just seems totally random.
Cuiv I literaly had my mount cable fail last night 🫣, did't have a spare cause I wasn't home, but luckily the mount had wifi. I'm now running into yet another trouble, my ha channel somehow won't align with my Sii and Oiii 😶🌫
In addition to all of that, those tiny connectors inside the plugs get a film on them over time. A simple fix is often to just exercise the connectors by unplugging and reinserting them a few times. It has almost become a routine for me. My ASI 1600MM Pro has been having some cooling anomalies, getting hot pixel scatter in my imaging files. Today I simply unplugged and reinserted all my USB and Power connectors for the win. Why is that? Because it wipes the contacts off and makes good contact again. I've replaced many, many cables over the years.
Indeed, in Europe a well known brand is "kontakt" there is an anti corrosion one : "61" most used for selector switches on tuners, look for "kontakt 600" and amplifiers.
I only use L-com cables now (no affiliation other than a happy user). They are more expensive, but have yet to fail, and are even offered in armored versions (I use the plastic armored version for my main camera connection). They are also clear about which USB-C cables support which USB protocols. I've had plenty of Amazon cables, even "good" ones, fail. One would fail whenever I had a meridian flip. But astrophotography image transfer has like zero ability to recover from errors. The same crappy cables cause things like retransmits when used for other things, but with astro, we see the worst case. The flat cables with ZWO cameras go right in the bin when I get them. You'll find that many of those "thick" cables aren't doing you any favors; they are just using a thick rubber coating to make you think they are more robust, no additional shielding or thicker signal wires.
I was shocked at 1:37 when you said *_" . . . and we'll talk also briefly about cable speeds"_* My screen immediately started buffering with the dreaded circular arrow aimlessly looping across an immobile image 😮. I thought _"Wow! thats great editing, reinforcing the concept of crappy cables not doing their job properly."_ But after rewinding I realised it wasn't edited in for effect after all.
Thanks Cuiv. I had a similar problem that cost me a month or so of observation. Looking back, my "cable management" was probably the problem - all tightly bundled to have clean management.
Intermittent problems are Always a pain in the @55! Cut the ends off of that cable then throw it away, so it Can't Ever get used again. (my experience as a retired electronics tech) Geek On, Cuiv!
My ASI1600MM Pro has blue plastic indicating USB3 connectors. Had a lot of trouble with it until a fellow imager suggested to put the umbilical cable from my mount into a USB2 port, Fixed that problem ever since on my laptop. ZWO needs to realize blue plastic does not a USB3 make. So, now I have USB3 cables and a USB3 powered hub feeding a USB2 port on my computer. I don't have a problem with that because I take long exposures. So, my systems have plenty of time to download images and get their control pulses.
The fundamental issue is very simple. USB connectors were designed to be used with static computers and peripherals. In other words they do not move and they are not subject to wind or setup and takedown. The male connectors are inserted 90° to the flat surface of the female receptacle and the male connectors never move. Through cable management around your OTA we sometimes string the cables too tightly thus pulling the male connector out of 90° alignment and thus makes an intermittent or no connection. My experience was with PHD2 where the guide camera kept disconnection from Windows and you hear that obnoxious, incessant chime from Windows. Maddening. The cure is to add extra length to the cable run and carefully tie-wrap the cables so they male connector is properly aligned and never moves. In radio threaded connectors with a screw tighten ring are used to prevents such a problem. Maybe the Astro industry could take a hint.
Thanks Rick, that makes sense too - I need to recheck all my cables for such issues... While still making sure they won't snag... or get influenced by wind!
This is very helpful! One of the reasons I don't bunch my cables together in the interest of so-called "cable management. I learned from the world of audio and video production that power cables should not be coupled with signal cables. The power cables can interfere with the signal cables. It seems your issue was a bad cable. I do make sure that none of my cables gets snagged while slewing, but "cable management" is for more permanent installations or for pictures of gear that people put on the Internet, so other people won't complain about a lack of cable management! :-)
Good point! I will say that some cable management is good in windy conditions, and when they can get snagged somewhere - but sometimes it's done purely for aesthetic reasons :)
@@CuivTheLazyGeek Yes, people do it mainly for aesthetic reasons (to post pictures of their setup). Typically I don't show my gear set up since it only invites gripes from the "cable management police." :-) In actual use, I never have a problem with my cables. If the wind is strong enough to blow cables around, I'm not doing astrophotography that night.
I tell newbies to buy cables that are long enough, but no longer than you need, and never buy 1. Always buy 2. That way you've got a spare for debugging and replacement. Also, you can buy cables with right angle connectors in the correct orientation that ease strain on the connections, and makes the cable less likely to snag. While a cable can fail any time, it's particularly a problem in cold weather. Below freezing temps make them brittle.
A great video Lord Cuiv 😊 I’ve spent my working life (over 40 years) troubleshooting and diagnosing data communications network faults and problems. Whilst there are numerous methodologies, I generally find that starting at the lowest level and working up (reference the OSI 7 layer model) provides a good basis for fault finding. Ensuring the most basic elements function first - physical connections and interfaces, ensuring all wires in an ethernet or USB cable are intact, providing signal etc. and then moving on up.
Had a very similar experience with my first ZWO camera, a 585MC, and the cable that was supplied with the camera. I now only use usb cables with very good shielding that are RoHS compliant. No issues following my change but it nearly put me off getting started with EAA. Thankfully, I had a fellow astronomy club member that immediately recognized the issues I was having was a bad cable!
Thanks, Cuiv!! I've been at this for almost a year without a clear explanation of the cable differences, troubleshooting clues, and cable management warnings. As always, your explanation was superb!!
Great video, I use all USB 2 cables on my set up, even in my IMX571 cameras, as thats all thats needed for deep Sky imaging, it’s only high frame rates that require USB 3, like planetary imaging, and USB 2 is much more stable and less prone to issues…👍🏻
Interesting! I don't like adding the overhead when imaging with relatively high res sensors on relatively short frames (like 30s), it can consume a lot of time!
Replacing cables every year, especially if they are used in very cold (-15 C here in the north), is a good idea. When replacing look to the usual set up and if a 90 degree plug can decrease strain, get it.
I wish there were more silicone USB cables available to help avoid these issues. Over time, I migrated all my main power cables to silicone, which eliminated all kinks and cut outs when the mount moves. Not the cheapest option, but definitely worth it.
Good and informative video Cuiv. Thanks for explaining the basic things, cause I am a technically challenged geek and super lazy w/ learning it. The tech is advancing so quickly, it’s like lining up w/ Olympic runners and watching them leave you behind. I’m glad you are there to break it down for us
SO TRUE!! I found a bad cable when I first got into the hobby. I nearly quit the hobby because of it. Now it's the first thing I check. Another important note - don't buy cheap cables!!! They are inexpensive for a reason - they don't last. This may seem like this is an unnecessary video, BUT IT IS IMPORTANT! Thank you - great content!
So it's possible what happened here is that the USB 2.0 data pins in your faulty cable broke, but the high-speed USB 3.0 pairs were still intact. These two channels operate mostly independently in a USB3+ device, so if the main sensor chip lives on the USB3 (xHCI) bus and the built-in hub and built-in guide chip live on the USB 2.0 (EHCI) bus, then a partial failure like this could happen and would result in symptoms like you saw. Definitely agree that shielding is substantially more challenging in flat cables than rounded ones. It's _possible_ to make a quality flat cable, but a lot more difficult, so if you don't need the flexibility, stick to the rounded ones for high data rates where possible. USB C to C cables are definitely very challenging; there's no clear identification in the general case, and manufacturers are very inconsistent about colour codes and labels as to what each cable will or won't do. I make a point of marking any cables I have bought and confirmed as proper USB 3 cables with a small "3" so I don't get confused down the road, but in general the 3+ cables are somewhat thicker/stiffer. If your C to C cable is quite flexible, it's likely a 2.0-only cable. If the cable is 15ft or longer, it's almost certainly a 2.0-only cable! Even 10ft is tricky for USB 3.0+ speeds.
Sometimes it's not the cable but the usb port. If look with a strong magnifying glass or very close up camera, you'll notice two bendable clips on one side of the port that should push up onto the cable, that might be pushed in, giving you that loose cable feel and sometimes causing disconnects. With some small needle thingy, try bending it a little back towards the cable side to give the slot that new cable, tight feel. I hope you understand because it hard to explain.
Good vid! I stopped using the ribbon cables a while back because I ran into intermittent issues. Get cables with gold-plated connectors and appropriate shielding unless they are less than 12". In general, USB2 cables can carry reliable signal further than USB3 due to the slower speed, but the quality of the cable makes the biggest difference IMO.
My friend, as a professional tech support person to about 165 staff I will tell you a secret… when faced with any technology issue, if your list of what it CAN be includes things that take 30 second, do them before analyzing anything else. Thanks for all the videos… I like your style.
IT guy here too. I troubleshoot in a flowchart path. Follow the path (software or physical) not skipping anything unless impossible or difficult to check. Anything less will ruin your life (AKA, imaging session) 😮
The conductors inside USB and other cables are very thin and it doesn’t take much to damage them. They most often exhibit an intermittent pattern of failure that makes it harder to diagnose.
Electrical resistance increases over distance leading to corrupted data, also with every physical connection will have a signal loss. Cat 5 cables are twisted internally to reduce magnetic interference. as are domestic phone cables.
Cuiv! You fantastic creature! It's all your fault 😊 You got me in to this. Since a year ago binged everything from your channel, Nebula Photos, Deep Space Astro and anything I could find on the topic. Exhausted my EOS450D and AZ GTi Bought a GSO200 F4, AM5, QHY715C and Uranus-C pro. Oh and a 3D printer to print all the goodies. And Yes, understanding collimation is a "thing" .. #$/:-/ Anyhoo, last session my focuser didn't connect. It did before right? Spent a few hours with the Device Manager open,( restarting windows., reinstalling Ascom driver etc) indeed and almost gave up, until I unplugged the cable and plugged it in the usb port next to it! It pinged, opened a fresh unused COM port and worked happily all night. Check out the focuser by the way, an EAF GEMINI 2 pro on Ali. Backlash is about 30 steps. Above all I'd like to thank you. I would not have been where I am without you. So, thank you! Clear skies!
Woohoo, I'm so happy to have dragged you into the abyss that is out hobby :D And dang that cable story sounds very, very familial hehe. Thanks for the information on the EAF Gemini - that thing is CHEAP! And little backlash is always very nice :)
Great video Cuiv, as always! I had a problem with my QHY268M-Pro connecting it through the USB3 powered hub. About half of the frames came in "cut" in random pieces (apparently a known problem). Replacing the connection with a direct fat USB3 cable almost fixed it. I still get this defect, but very rarely. My cable length is 2m or so, that's probably why. I agree, cables and points of contact (those can oxidize!) are very important.
I always throw away those cheap OEM flat cables from ZWO, and replace them with high quality connectors. The other issue that can contribute to cable shorts is extreme 90 deg bends at the connectors. I saw one on the Frankenmount and another on your Red Cat guide scope. A little cable management goes a long way. And, all the USB ports on ASI AIR's are USB2.
Thanks for the great video. Cable failures have happened to me way too often and ruined many of my imaging hours. It is particular annoying when the issue lies with the powebox plug. It could be much harder to find the culprit. Now I have developed a method whenever this happens. That is to unplug all cables and start with only the camera USB 3 cable and plug them back in one by one to pinpoint where the issue is. It could take some time and sometimes the results can be inconsistent, but still a little more systematic and useful than blindly plugging cables in and out as I did before.
Second to Windows, cables have been the most problematic for me. Just last week my camera stopped cooling mid-session. As the scope had moved to the vertical the 5.5x2.1 power connector on the back of the Player One had fallen out. Another tie wrap and lesson learned!
Try a ferrite bead on your cables before you trash them. It’s a type of choke that suppresses high end electronic noise. Also, make sure you don’t have kinks or lots of slack. All of these affect speed and connectivity. We used ferrite beads on all of or data cables in the telephone offices and data centers I worked in.
Long USB cables frequently also have tiny chips in them to help with making the signal stronger and more resistant to RF interference, in addition to being thicker and better shielded.
My latest problem has been the length of my USB 3 cables. The DSLR worked fine with my four meter cables but not when I tried to use the new dedicated QHY 183 M camera. From my former experience as an electrician I realized the longer the cable, the more copper conductor, the more voltage drop and signal loss due to increasing resistance in the longer conductors. Interference usually isn't a problem unless you're running power cables with data cables, as USB cables have braided shields around them that carry unwanted signals to ground. AC and DC power cables create electromagnetic fields that can corrupt data pulses. The fields surround the cables when they're energized. The fix, I believe, is to use a powered USB hub, like Pegasus Astro power box. This should boost the signal from the camera, although im sure it has it's limitations as well. Another option I just learned about are "powered" USB cables. Basically the same thing, just built into the cable itself.
I learned way back in the early 80's (before USB was a thing) not to kink or stress cables. When I was setting up my rig, I only ever used the flat cables for initial testing, and then ordered slightly longer, high quality & well shielded cables to replace them. With the exception of the ASI Air's lousy WIFI, I've never had an issue with things connecting.
They’re a little more expensive but if you need to use a USB-C style cable on both ends I would say just buy ones marked as USB 4 or even Thunderbolt 4 as those cables will support speeds up to 40Gb/s and be backward compatible with whatever USB-C port version and speed the hardware uses.
You gotta loop the cables so that they are not tight at the bends. Replace the cables with high-quality cables that are nylon braided and shielded. ZWO has a warning for ASAIR not to run the power cables near its antenna. The cables provided by manuifacturers are the cheapest.
@@CuivTheLazyGeek It depends. You have to do your research Like the filters ;) . I have found good quality cables in Amazon that have lasted the Arizona heat and rough handling. I always use shielded cables anytime these will be close to electric carrying cables or power supplies. Yes, these are less flexible and tend to be thicker. You can also use angled connectors to reduce stress on the cables. Not sure why manufacturers don't convert to USB-C which is easier. Just make sure they are labeled SS (Super Speed) for USB 3 or above. Braided cables offer greater durability. and prevent the mini copper cables inside from tearing. Lastly, if the cable is cheap, it is not going to last.
I only buy high quality ones now... We think nothing of spending ££££ on mounts and optics but expect a cable for £10 to behave. I'll upload a link when I can find it, but they sell to AUDIO/ VISUAL professionals and the cables are tested and come with a high level of specifications.... Lindy and JuiceEbits... Both recommended
Thanks for sharing this experience Cuiv. I think these could be a common problem with most of the amateur astrophotographers. Hope somebody will share a shop’s link where we can order good quality cables.
I brought some USB3 'Lindy' cables from First Light Optics in the UK. for my asiair to cameras. I'm really happy with the quality and they came with a polythene sheath that keeps out any moisture in the atmosphere. Very happy with the quality of them.
The rules I learned years ago, in the earlier days of IT, are the following: 1. Check the cables. All of them. 2. Power it off and on again. 3. Are you sure it’s not the cable(s)?
I had to go home once because I didn't bring an extra USB A-B cable. I carry extras with me now. Another time, every GoTo command would point the rig straight into the ground. I only realized the next day that Green Swamp Server was set to East instead of West. The rig thought it was somewhere on the other side of the world.
I did go home once because I thought I didn't have a cable. Then when I got home, the cable was right there. But it was black. I couldn't see it on the site, even with a red light. I now have all my cables in white and yellow.
This is why I have three or four times as many cables as I need for my setup, and at least three separate power sources. You really can't have too many spare cables, or too many sources of power for your rig.
I had this issue so many times for real! And I also knew it was the cable, after it happened the 10th time! LOL! I kept promising myself that I will throw away the bad USB cables, but somehow they made it back in my drawer and later on ended up back on the scope, and there we go again! There are also some very very nice looking cables that look tough and rugged, but they are just trash. That's how I end up not throwing them away, they look to good to be bad!
My worst nightmare struck when my first mount the EQM35-Pro's DEC wire snagged on an azimuth bolt head and it stopped the mount while I was slewing. I had never had this issue since I had the mount for almost a year. It bent the pins inside the cable and I had to use pliers to straighten them as much as I could but they are still bent. They are really hard to bend back. I just put in an order for my second mount, a budget harmonic drive that has more capacity. I got the new UMi 17R with FRAM on preorder. Hope you can review this one as well, Cuiv!
I only realized this year that USB-C cables are actually active components with logic boards in their plugs. They can negotiate speed and voltage with the connector they are plugged in! This was a revelation to me, which was very important for example for getting a very compact and reliable 12V power supply out of a 12V selecting cable in connection with a (quite new) powerbank. That cable itself basically negotiates with the powerbank, that the powerbank should provide 12V, not 5V, and presto!
That is the difference between Android, Windows, and Apple. Android has the circuitry in their boxes and NOT the cable. That is why Apple cables cost more.... the Android cables are the way they should have implemented it.... KISS method that Apple failed to follow.
I had a usb cable problem, guide cam would not work we worked out it was USB cable changed all cables to quality ones direct from Lindy cables in the UK, no issues since. So moral of this story is use good quality cables from a known good supplier.
I've been testing camera USB cables by running them in SharpCap at maximum frame rate using USB 3.0. I was floored by the frame drops. I need a 90-degree angled cable to fit my setup, and of the more than dozen cables I've tried over the last little while, only ONE worked properly. BTW I have not found any cable that matches the one ZWO provided for throughput. That flat cable has the lowest number of frame drops when tested alone, but when bunched with other cables, all bets are off. Great video, and a reminder to keep cables separated, especially data from power.
I bought a new power supply for my eagle thinking it didnt have enough juice to power up my cameras, filter, focuser etc and was making my connection with the mount unstable (it kept randomly disconnecting). I thought it couldnt be the USB, because I tested with two different cables. So, I bought an Eagle 4 thinking that my unit was defective. And then, exactly the same problem happened, even with a beefier power supply and brand new eagle. Decided to buy two new usb cables. First one, same problem AGAIN, but the other one finally fixed it and I havent had a single mount disconnection issue since. Let me just say, the previous 2.0 gen USB-B are trash, really prone to bad contact/connection, would easily slip etc. Havent had a single issue with the 3.0 USB-B yet
Also if you have a USB 2 and 3 on the same hub, from the hub to the computer the it will all run at USB 2 speed. Also having filtered USB cables on your camera cables helps with interference showing up in your subs.
From what I read on the web, this is not true. A USB3 hub apparently has 2 separate data lines for USB2 and USB3, so will not slow everything down to USB2
Cuiv I recall a while back, I purchased a brand new SW HEQ5 Pro mount, and literally the first night outside, the cable that connects the hand controller to the mount, had snagged and practically snapped the damn cable!! I was GUTTED!! 😱😂. Ever since I'm OTT about cable management! Awesome, educational, useful vid' as always! Thanks again Cuiv, love this channel! 🔥👍
I had similar issues with an aftermarket cable that worked fine with the 294MC Pro with an ASIAir not working with a 585 MC Pro with the same setup. Switching to the red cable that came with the 585 solved it as well. Going back to the 294 MC Pro and the older cable continued to work fine. I think these cameras can just be more picky about their cables - sometimes they work with cheaper cables, sometimes they don't. Note that the symptom for me was that it would take about 2-5 photos just fine, then stop working. I'd have to unplug/plug it back in again. I guess it could be interference as you suggested as well.
I never thought about interference as being a problem, I usually run 3 cables (widefield rig). Mount, camera and efw. But I might keep this in mind since I just switched to a qhy camera which has 0 extra usb ports.
This is a very good video and applies to a lot of situations! I don't see an issue with EM interference between adjacent data cables, it's all very low voltage. Never put 120VAC or 240VAC power cables against them parallel, though!
I have the same problem, I spent about a month, since there were no clear nights. He also worked normally on a computer, but in ASI Air worked for 2 minutes, after which the camera fell off. I went out of this situation by switching the cable to the USB 2.0. I wanted to send asi Air back to the store, but a friend prompted replacing the cable. And it earned.
I think about my cables constantly. I have many substitute cables, connectors, every conceivable adaptor multiple times over. Its the worst when a cable gets snagged and breaks and you have no way to get your gear going again.
I had experienced the same problems with cables bought from amazon and ironically one Uk optical store said they don't stock cables and to buy from Amazon. In contrast to that FLO did stock cables that they recommended My flat USB3 cables that came with my ZWO camera would never connect with my laptop USB3 port but worked via USB2. As you said you need better quality cables and you can't really trust anything you buy based on the label or price.
blue was originally USB2 and USB 3 was red - then they just wanted to confuse us 🤷♀ lots of usb problems can also be power delivery related. shorted the faster...
And then you have Razer using green, and other brands using other colors! And of course technically white USB plug would be USB1, and black would be USB2, but that's actually not so strong either :)
This is sooo common these days, the manufactured specs compared to the cable you buy is vastly different. I have had so many fail on me where I have half the image train appart till it was evident that it was a failed cable. I was having focouser problems, yet could operate my astro camera perfectly, the last thing that came to my mind was the cable going from thee astro camera to the PC, I had swapped the cable going from focouser to the camera 7 times that night, and went to the local petrol station to buy a new cable, which was not up to spec for fast video delivery. I am about to spend money on Cable Mod cables just because you are guarenteed quality.
Hello Cuiv. Had the same issue with a ZWO USB2 cable connecting my HEQ5 mount to the computer. It took me weeks to figure out what was going on until a friend helped me. The cable looked absolutely fine, but was damaged.
Completely under discussed topic in this hobby. My QHY294m is extraordinarily picky about the cables I use. I end up swapping out the cable every 6 to 9 months. All set up for a night and I'll get the exact same kind of errors you described. I'll go out there, pull the cable, put a new one on and I'm good to go. I just wish I knew why cables go bad and what is a quality USB 3 cable before I buy it.
Interesting, I had the same problem a few weeks ago - have never thrown a cable away as fast as as binned that cable - had several nights of lost imaging. I was a very unhappy bunny.
Yeah I had a USB cable (provided by ZWO!!) connecting my 533MC Pro to my ASIAir. The only symptom it had was once a night or so ilI would get an "exposure failed" message... And allllll night it would randomly not register an exposure being completed with no error at all. So for example my counter would be on image 6/50 and randomly at the end of the next exposure it would STAY at 6/50 and just keep going. I was losing a dozen or more shots over the course of a night. No error recorded in the log either. Cheap Amazon USB cable (from Cable Matters) has fixed everything.
I had a similar issue but even changing the cable didn't help much. I found that from my equipment being outside in the elements, the connectors on my usb port had oxidized and started to cause issues. I found a thread on Cloudy Nights where another person was having the same issues and he used a little tube of this stuff called Deoxit cleaner/enhancer. I bought this off Amazon and tried it by just putting some on the end of the USB cable and plugging and unplugging the cable several times and then just let it dry. Later I tried and now the USB port works perfectly without any issues. Maybe you could take that cable out of the trash and try this 🙂 If this product isn't available in Japan, there may be another brand of electrical contact cleaner that is!
I have used Deoxit for years. It is amazing stuff. Also good to keep battery contacts clean and if you ever have a leaking battery this will clean up the mess and restore the metal contact.
Interesting topic. I'll have to check my wire bundle and see if I have my camera cables in close proximity. You know I was having problems with my Stellarmate Pro not being able to secure a GPS lock. No matter what I did it just would not lock. So I contacted Stellarmate and they told me to unplug all my USB 3.0 devices and then turn on the Stallarmate Pro. Evidently there is an issue with USB 3.0 only that causes problems with the GPS. Because as soon I did as they suggested, I got an immediate GPS Lock. And it stayed locked even after I plugged my cameras back in. For one of the more simple pieces of equipment, it sure can be a pain in the back side when they want to. ;o)
I had the same problem as you are experiencing a couple of years ago. I ended up buying quality Lindy and Deltaco cables, they have been running fine for several years now in my obsy. (even at 3+ meters length) /Daniel
You are right to narrow the issues down to the reliability of the USB connections. However, I am convinced that the real issue lies in the connectors! USB connections are really not designed to function when the cables are moved all the time. The worst culprits for failure are where the socket relies on just the soldered connection to the PCB for mechanical strength. This is not isolated to the astro-equipment industry: Think Walkman jack sockets or mobile phones... :( The only exception I have seen in astronomy equipment is the captive mini USB to the Polemaster, of all things. The irony being that you only need to have it connected occasionally.
Ahhhh! I’ve been having the virtually the same weird issues with my asi533mc and Asiair with my hyperstar. Disconnects, eaf disconnected then connected, mount not found. This is after almost three years of no issues with the Zwo cable. I also noticed that the 533mc no longer gave usb3.0 as an option which is what had me leaning towards the Zwo cable being the culprit. Thanks.
I had lots of issue with USB cables in the past. It took me some time to figure out why remote access was lagging or dropping connection while imaging only to find out that USB 3.0 interference causes Wi-fi to malfunction (basically a DDOS attack). I switched everything to USB 2.0 since then. it's more stable at a cost of slower image download. I'm completely ok not getting more imaging time due to slow image downloads but it's 100x more stable and stress free.
I lost 5 hours of imaging time one night because my mount's power adapter's North America AC plug adapter. It had slipped out far enough to not connect, but not far enough to drop out of its slot on the AC adapter. Meanwhile, my mount still had power. It was drawing power through its connection to my StellarMate OS Raspberry Pi. I could use the hand controller to slew the mount manually just fine. But whenever the Stellarmate commanded the mount to slew, it wouldn't move. I also had a USB power adapter plugged into the AC outlet alongside the mount's adapter. I was concerned that maybe something weird was happening between the mount's ground and the USB's ground (I was clutching at straws after hours of faffing around!) So I grabbed my portable power pack, disconnected the power cable from the mount and put in the cigarette lighter power adapter, plugged the various other devices into the power pack's USB power ports, and I was able to start all over again with aligning the mount, polar alignment, etc. and get in 90 minutes of imaging before closing up shop for the night. It was when I was cleaning up that I picked up the mount's AC adapter and had the AC plug fall out onto the ground. I have now glued the North America adapter into its slot with about ten pounds of urethane adhesive. Never again!
Reminds me a little of my last "attempted" imaging session. One of my ZWO cameras has the flat cable and was having the camera connecting, cutting out and connecting on and off.
Actually, I sent back my ASI 2600MM to the dealer, and that particular model I never want to see in my (ersatz)obsi. My suspicion is that the model as a whole is just too sloppy, the USB stack crashed, the Peltier for some reason kept running and cooking the sensor (cooling fan stopped because reasons), until I physically disconnected the whole thing. Rinse and repeat. Changed cables, changed PC, changed the power source (the 533MM works perfectly with the same setup and cable etc), so I'm going with a different vendor's IMX 571 MM. I mean... watchdog... something... anything
@@CuivTheLazyGeek Also, cable kinks. I try to physically keep the USB cable straight and away from other possible interference, like the mount drive. In the ersatz-obsi, I built and programmed almost everything myself. Only the stepper motors remained from the EQ3 mount, the drive, the motofocus, the ST4 implementation (though pin compatible), the filter wheel drive, all and everything is built and programmed by myself.
An alternate theory ( if you haven't thrown that cable away yet ), Your device manager was in a high refresh rate due to a port conflict. If your computer had already assigned a port for the focuser and then you added the ASI2600 MC Pro Duo, on power up it detected the guide camera and assigned it the same port as the focuser and that's when it went down hill. The cable may still be an issue but I think the port assignment was also an issue. Clear skies #LookUpItsTheOnlyWayOut.
Great to know Cuiv! Thank you for sharing. I think I will also replace my flat USB3 cables against round and shorter ones. I have the feeling that I loose some speed somewhere are well as my AsiAir needs long time updating as well even though I also use these cable organisers on the camera and the AsiAir. PS: Still waiting for the MeowAstro review. 😄 Unfortunately they are going to release a new UMI17 with a much nicer appearance (it has a cat on its housing) this month. The new version will hit the market even before my mount has arrived. 😭
I agree that the flat cables supplied by ZWO lack shielding, but they are also weak (wire is too thin). When I first bought a ZWO camera I liked this flat design cable, since it bundled nicely in a cable management scheme, but within several months one failed, then another and then another. I tried them on other devices and they did not work. I have since gone to a good quality slender, round, braided design of cable with no issues after several years use. Sometimes it is even how loose the USB plug fits that will make it fail. On the female ports on my laptop, for instance, I have used a dental pick to bend the springy retaining tangs for improved grip (computer powered off of course).
Very good advice Cuiv. I worked in electrical/electronic engineering for fifty years before retirement, poor cable management, sub standard cables and connectors and cables used for something they weren't designed for were responsible for a lot of problems I was called upon to solve. Now I only buy cables from reputable suppliers that specialise in supplying the astro photography market. Buying cheap USB and power cables online is asking for trouble.
@@lionki3 I have never used them so I can't say. I've never had any trouble with Lynx Astro cables but they are relatively expensive, but then again compared to the overall price of the rig it's still only a small amount to pay. I live in the UK and buy my cables from First Light Optics, I had a bit of a connectivity problem last year and found their tech support team very helpful.
Hi Cuiv, good report, I had exactly the same experience with my Altair 26C, I changed over the usb cable and it worked, but only for a couple of days then failed again, this time I couldn't rectify it so, I reached out to Altair I returned the camera to them (it was just out of warranty) they checked it and found it was the board 😢, it can be repaired £400 ouch. Hope this is not the same for you.
You have no idea how many cables I have gone through. I think I have gone through more than 15 usb cables from several brands. Including some that are branded as military grade toughness. Dropped connections, freezing mounts and so many other issues
I found that when i leave the cablles hanging instead of having neat cable management , i run into lots of problems like this. Pretty doesnt always work well
Okay, I struggled yesterday with RP5 + Stellarmate, had exactly the issue Cuiv has described (windows machine worked perfectly fine). And by the way, I used all flat cables. I will try different cables and see if that helps.
I bought a new ASI2600MC and the first time I tried to use it, I got intermittent image download failures. My first thought was a problem with my ASIAIR, so I used a different device, same problem. I assumed that my. camera was defective since the cable was brand new and came with the camera. But I switched the cable out and the camera has been fine ever since. Now I have a plethora of backup cables for all the different usb connecters and speeds.
Cuiv, Great video as always and certainly an important topic based on the large number of comments below. I experienced similar issues with my new ASI2600 MC Pro - only the red 2M USB-3 cable worked! It was too long for my setup and none of the other supplied cable would allow image downloads. I eventually got a shorter 5Gb/s cable from Pegasus Astro that worked fine. I suspect that all the larger sensor camera (APSC and full frame) may have similar issues or perhaps its a quirk of ZWO?? Thanks again.
Recently my CGEM mount stopped connecting... After almost a week of trying different things on my spare time, finally looks that is my USB to serial cable ¬¬'
I thing if you haven't been musician or electrician and made your own cables, most of the people don't know how to treat their cables, they don't know how to fold them / roll them. They usually fold them the way that twists them and put too much tension into the cables essentially destroying them.
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Let us know your cable-related horror stories!!
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I also had cables going bad, but the reason wasn't kinks or interference but corrosion in the connectors. These connectors are not designed for outdoor use and condensation will eventually form and corrode the metal parts. The oxidation on the surface of the metal contacts creates parasitic resistance which interferes with the data transfer. This is the reason the cables initially work and then fail. The solution is to replace the bad cables or use a drop of contact cleaner solution (sold in electronics stores).
had this loads of times in the last 20 years and also usb hubs. and its so weird how they can stop working with just 1 camera but work fine on another and vice versa. USB has always been unreliable for me and imaging. And doesnt seem to matter if they are cheap or expensive just seems totally random.
Cuiv I literaly had my mount cable fail last night 🫣, did't have a spare cause I wasn't home, but luckily the mount had wifi. I'm now running into yet another trouble, my ha channel somehow won't align with my Sii and Oiii 😶🌫
In addition to all of that, those tiny connectors inside the plugs get a film on them over time. A simple fix is often to just exercise the connectors by unplugging and reinserting them a few times. It has almost become a routine for me. My ASI 1600MM Pro has been having some cooling anomalies, getting hot pixel scatter in my imaging files. Today I simply unplugged and reinserted all my USB and Power connectors for the win. Why is that? Because it wipes the contacts off and makes good contact again. I've replaced many, many cables over the years.
Indeed, in Europe a well known brand is "kontakt" there is an anti corrosion one : "61" most used for selector switches on tuners, look for "kontakt 600" and amplifiers.
I only use L-com cables now (no affiliation other than a happy user). They are more expensive, but have yet to fail, and are even offered in armored versions (I use the plastic armored version for my main camera connection). They are also clear about which USB-C cables support which USB protocols.
I've had plenty of Amazon cables, even "good" ones, fail. One would fail whenever I had a meridian flip. But astrophotography image transfer has like zero ability to recover from errors. The same crappy cables cause things like retransmits when used for other things, but with astro, we see the worst case.
The flat cables with ZWO cameras go right in the bin when I get them.
You'll find that many of those "thick" cables aren't doing you any favors; they are just using a thick rubber coating to make you think they are more robust, no additional shielding or thicker signal wires.
I was shocked at 1:37 when you said *_" . . . and we'll talk also briefly about cable speeds"_*
My screen immediately started buffering with the dreaded circular arrow aimlessly looping across an immobile image 😮.
I thought _"Wow! thats great editing, reinforcing the concept of crappy cables not doing their job properly."_
But after rewinding I realised it wasn't edited in for effect after all.
Hahaha too bad, I should have thought of that!
Thanks Cuiv. I had a similar problem that cost me a month or so of observation. Looking back, my "cable management" was probably the problem - all tightly bundled to have clean management.
Yeah sometimes it's better to have cables that don't look good but have some nice slack in them!
Intermittent problems are Always a pain in the @55!
Cut the ends off of that cable then throw it away, so it Can't Ever get used again.
(my experience as a retired electronics tech)
Geek On, Cuiv!
Yes, and I always tie knots in a bad cable until I get a chance to behead it. I've laid aside a bad cable before only to have it get picked up again.
Thanks man! Yes the cable has been chucked :)
In addition to the color, check the number of contacts. You can find blue connectors in the wild with only 4 contacts. So you get a blue USB-2
Oh man, now that is plain evil from the manufacturer!! Thanks for the tip!
My ASI1600MM Pro has blue plastic indicating USB3 connectors. Had a lot of trouble with it until a fellow imager suggested to put the umbilical cable from my mount into a USB2 port, Fixed that problem ever since on my laptop. ZWO needs to realize blue plastic does not a USB3 make. So, now I have USB3 cables and a USB3 powered hub feeding a USB2 port on my computer. I don't have a problem with that because I take long exposures. So, my systems have plenty of time to download images and get their control pulses.
It’s funny how the cheapest part of our whole set up is the one that gives us the most problems
it makes perfect sense
As they say, the chain is only as strong as it's weakest link 😅
Thanks John👍👏😎🐈⬛
Yep!! Although I guess even if we bought $500 cables they would still cause us issues :)
The fundamental issue is very simple. USB connectors were designed to be used with static computers and peripherals. In other words they do not move and they are not subject to wind or setup and takedown. The male connectors are inserted 90° to the flat surface of the female receptacle and the male connectors never move. Through cable management around your OTA we sometimes string the cables too tightly thus pulling the male connector out of 90° alignment and thus makes an intermittent or no connection.
My experience was with PHD2 where the guide camera kept disconnection from Windows and you hear that obnoxious, incessant chime from Windows. Maddening.
The cure is to add extra length to the cable run and carefully tie-wrap the cables so they male connector is properly aligned and never moves.
In radio threaded connectors with a screw tighten ring are used to prevents such a problem. Maybe the Astro industry could take a hint.
Thanks Rick, that makes sense too - I need to recheck all my cables for such issues... While still making sure they won't snag... or get influenced by wind!
This is very helpful! One of the reasons I don't bunch my cables together in the interest of so-called "cable management. I learned from the world of audio and video production that power cables should not be coupled with signal cables. The power cables can interfere with the signal cables. It seems your issue was a bad cable.
I do make sure that none of my cables gets snagged while slewing, but "cable management" is for more permanent installations or for pictures of gear that people put on the Internet, so other people won't complain about a lack of cable management! :-)
Good point! I will say that some cable management is good in windy conditions, and when they can get snagged somewhere - but sometimes it's done purely for aesthetic reasons :)
@@CuivTheLazyGeek Yes, people do it mainly for aesthetic reasons (to post pictures of their setup). Typically I don't show my gear set up since it only invites gripes from the "cable management police." :-)
In actual use, I never have a problem with my cables. If the wind is strong enough to blow cables around, I'm not doing astrophotography that night.
@@VisionCommunications Would you not use that plastic cable holder that Cuiv showed? You don’t use anything at all for your cables?
I tell newbies to buy cables that are long enough, but no longer than you need, and never buy 1. Always buy 2. That way you've got a spare for debugging and replacement. Also, you can buy cables with right angle connectors in the correct orientation that ease strain on the connections, and makes the cable less likely to snag. While a cable can fail any time, it's particularly a problem in cold weather. Below freezing temps make them brittle.
Good advice!
A great video Lord Cuiv 😊 I’ve spent my working life (over 40 years) troubleshooting and diagnosing data communications network faults and problems. Whilst there are numerous methodologies, I generally find that starting at the lowest level and working up (reference the OSI 7 layer model) provides a good basis for fault finding. Ensuring the most basic elements function first - physical connections and interfaces, ensuring all wires in an ethernet or USB cable are intact, providing signal etc. and then moving on up.
Every night after my imaging session I pray our Lord, Cuiv never stop making these awsome videos ❤
As long as I don't burn out! My day job has been very busy these days :)
Had a very similar experience with my first ZWO camera, a 585MC, and the cable that was supplied with the camera. I now only use usb cables with very good shielding that are RoHS compliant. No issues following my change but it nearly put me off getting started with EAA. Thankfully, I had a fellow astronomy club member that immediately recognized the issues I was having was a bad cable!
Glad that club member saved you a lot of headaches!
Thanks, Cuiv!! I've been at this for almost a year without a clear explanation of the cable differences, troubleshooting clues, and cable management warnings. As always, your explanation was superb!!
I'm so glad this was helpful!
Great video, I use all USB 2 cables on my set up, even in my IMX571 cameras, as thats all thats needed for deep Sky imaging, it’s only high frame rates that require USB 3, like planetary imaging, and USB 2 is much more stable and less prone to issues…👍🏻
Interesting! I don't like adding the overhead when imaging with relatively high res sensors on relatively short frames (like 30s), it can consume a lot of time!
Replacing cables every year, especially if they are used in very cold (-15 C here in the north), is a good idea. When replacing look to the usual set up and if a 90 degree plug can decrease strain, get it.
That's a good point, it makes me want to look for 90 degrees plugs now
I wish there were more silicone USB cables available to help avoid these issues. Over time, I migrated all my main power cables to silicone, which eliminated all kinks and cut outs when the mount moves. Not the cheapest option, but definitely worth it.
Any reputable brands in particular or just the fact it's silicone?
Were these the Lindy cables from FLO? tinyurl.com/5xphtb78
Or something else?
@@lionki3 I mainly use 12V Lynx Astro cables from First Light Optics. They come in various configurations and lengths.
Good and informative video Cuiv. Thanks for explaining the basic things, cause I am a technically challenged geek and super lazy w/ learning it. The tech is advancing so quickly, it’s like lining up w/ Olympic runners and watching them leave you behind. I’m glad you are there to break it down for us
So glad this is helpful!
SO TRUE!! I found a bad cable when I first got into the hobby. I nearly quit the hobby because of it. Now it's the first thing I check. Another important note - don't buy cheap cables!!! They are inexpensive for a reason - they don't last. This may seem like this is an unnecessary video, BUT IT IS IMPORTANT! Thank you - great content!
Thanks Clarence! Cables are truly a hidden hobby-killer!
So it's possible what happened here is that the USB 2.0 data pins in your faulty cable broke, but the high-speed USB 3.0 pairs were still intact. These two channels operate mostly independently in a USB3+ device, so if the main sensor chip lives on the USB3 (xHCI) bus and the built-in hub and built-in guide chip live on the USB 2.0 (EHCI) bus, then a partial failure like this could happen and would result in symptoms like you saw.
Definitely agree that shielding is substantially more challenging in flat cables than rounded ones. It's _possible_ to make a quality flat cable, but a lot more difficult, so if you don't need the flexibility, stick to the rounded ones for high data rates where possible.
USB C to C cables are definitely very challenging; there's no clear identification in the general case, and manufacturers are very inconsistent about colour codes and labels as to what each cable will or won't do. I make a point of marking any cables I have bought and confirmed as proper USB 3 cables with a small "3" so I don't get confused down the road, but in general the 3+ cables are somewhat thicker/stiffer. If your C to C cable is quite flexible, it's likely a 2.0-only cable. If the cable is 15ft or longer, it's almost certainly a 2.0-only cable! Even 10ft is tricky for USB 3.0+ speeds.
Sometimes it's not the cable but the usb port. If look with a strong magnifying glass or very close up camera, you'll notice two bendable clips on one side of the port that should push up onto the cable, that might be pushed in, giving you that loose cable feel and sometimes causing disconnects. With some small needle thingy, try bending it a little back towards the cable side to give the slot that new cable, tight feel. I hope you understand because it hard to explain.
Oh wow, thanks for this - sometimes I with we could have just unbreakable cables fused in place without needing plugs :)
Great info about something I rarely consider, Cuiv! Thanks so much for sharing your pain, and for the additional information. Much appreciated.
Good vid! I stopped using the ribbon cables a while back because I ran into intermittent issues. Get cables with gold-plated connectors and appropriate shielding unless they are less than 12". In general, USB2 cables can carry reliable signal further than USB3 due to the slower speed, but the quality of the cable makes the biggest difference IMO.
I’ve had this issue as well - can be difficult to troubleshoot. Great info Quiv!
Thanks Gregory! The hobby always finds new ways to be frustrating
My friend, as a professional tech support person to about 165 staff I will tell you a secret… when faced with any technology issue, if your list of what it CAN be includes things that take 30 second, do them before analyzing anything else.
Thanks for all the videos… I like your style.
Hahaha that is a VERY good piece of advice! Low hanging fruits first! Thanks so much!
IT guy here too. I troubleshoot in a flowchart path. Follow the path (software or physical) not skipping anything unless impossible or difficult to check. Anything less will ruin your life (AKA, imaging session) 😮
The conductors inside USB and other cables are very thin and it doesn’t take much to damage them. They most often exhibit an intermittent pattern of failure that makes it harder to diagnose.
The intermittency is really the most frustrating aspect...
Electrical resistance increases over distance leading to corrupted data, also with every physical connection will have a signal loss. Cat 5 cables are twisted internally to reduce magnetic interference. as are domestic phone cables.
Cuiv! You fantastic creature! It's all your fault 😊 You got me in to this. Since a year ago binged everything from your channel, Nebula Photos, Deep Space Astro and anything I could find on the topic. Exhausted my EOS450D and AZ GTi Bought a GSO200 F4, AM5, QHY715C and Uranus-C pro. Oh and a 3D printer to print all the goodies. And Yes, understanding collimation is a "thing" .. #$/:-/
Anyhoo, last session my focuser didn't connect. It did before right? Spent a few hours with the Device Manager open,( restarting windows., reinstalling Ascom driver etc) indeed and almost gave up, until I unplugged the cable and plugged it in the usb port next to it! It pinged, opened a fresh unused COM port and worked happily all night.
Check out the focuser by the way, an EAF GEMINI 2 pro on Ali. Backlash is about 30 steps.
Above all I'd like to thank you. I would not have been where I am without you. So, thank you! Clear skies!
Woohoo, I'm so happy to have dragged you into the abyss that is out hobby :D And dang that cable story sounds very, very familial hehe. Thanks for the information on the EAF Gemini - that thing is CHEAP! And little backlash is always very nice :)
Great video Cuiv, as always! I had a problem with my QHY268M-Pro connecting it through the USB3 powered hub. About half of the frames came in "cut" in random pieces (apparently a known problem). Replacing the connection with a direct fat USB3 cable almost fixed it. I still get this defect, but very rarely. My cable length is 2m or so, that's probably why. I agree, cables and points of contact (those can oxidize!) are very important.
Huh, very interesting, and annoying issue....
This past week my EQ6 went nuts and took me until the second night to find the USB cable had a loose end. Just ordered a USB cable tester!
I need to look into such testers too!
I always throw away those cheap OEM flat cables from ZWO, and replace them with high quality connectors. The other issue that can contribute to cable shorts is extreme 90 deg bends at the connectors. I saw one on the Frankenmount and another on your Red Cat guide scope. A little cable management goes a long way. And, all the USB ports on ASI AIR's are USB2.
I'll need to check my bends, thanks for the advice!
Thanks for the great video. Cable failures have happened to me way too often and ruined many of my imaging hours. It is particular annoying when the issue lies with the powebox plug. It could be much harder to find the culprit. Now I have developed a method whenever this happens. That is to unplug all cables and start with only the camera USB 3 cable and plug them back in one by one to pinpoint where the issue is. It could take some time and sometimes the results can be inconsistent, but still a little more systematic and useful than blindly plugging cables in and out as I did before.
Oooh Nice! This is a good, systematic way of diagnosing, it would have prevented me a lot of pain!
Second to Windows, cables have been the most problematic for me. Just last week my camera stopped cooling mid-session. As the scope had moved to the vertical the 5.5x2.1 power connector on the back of the Player One had fallen out. Another tie wrap and lesson learned!
Oh that is a frustrating thing too! And yeah Windows... if only I could run NINA on Linux!
Try a ferrite bead on your cables before you trash them. It’s a type of choke that suppresses high end electronic noise. Also, make sure you don’t have kinks or lots of slack. All of these affect speed and connectivity. We used ferrite beads on all of or data cables in the telephone offices and data centers I worked in.
Thanks for the tip! Now I have more stuff to try :)
Long USB cables frequently also have tiny chips in them to help with making the signal stronger and more resistant to RF interference, in addition to being thicker and better shielded.
My latest problem has been the length of my USB 3 cables. The DSLR worked fine with my four meter cables but not when I tried to use the new dedicated QHY 183 M camera. From my former experience as an electrician I realized the longer the cable, the more copper conductor, the more voltage drop and signal loss due to increasing resistance in the longer conductors. Interference usually isn't a problem unless you're running power cables with data cables, as USB cables have braided shields around them that carry unwanted signals to ground. AC and DC power cables create electromagnetic fields that can corrupt data pulses. The fields surround the cables when they're energized. The fix, I believe, is to use a powered USB hub, like Pegasus Astro power box. This should boost the signal from the camera, although im sure it has it's limitations as well. Another option I just learned about are "powered" USB cables. Basically the same thing, just built into the cable itself.
I learned way back in the early 80's (before USB was a thing) not to kink or stress cables. When I was setting up my rig, I only ever used the flat cables for initial testing, and then ordered slightly longer, high quality & well shielded cables to replace them. With the exception of the ASI Air's lousy WIFI, I've never had an issue with things connecting.
Good point indeed!
They’re a little more expensive but if you need to use a USB-C style cable on both ends I would say just buy ones marked as USB 4 or even Thunderbolt 4 as those cables will support speeds up to 40Gb/s and be backward compatible with whatever USB-C port version and speed the hardware uses.
You gotta loop the cables so that they are not tight at the bends. Replace the cables with high-quality cables that are nylon braided and shielded. ZWO has a warning for ASAIR not to run the power cables near its antenna. The cables provided by manuifacturers are the cheapest.
Yes that makes sense! I've always wondered about those braided cables - are they well shielded? I mean it can't be worse than those flat cables :)
@@CuivTheLazyGeek It depends. You have to do your research Like the filters ;) . I have found good quality cables in Amazon that have lasted the Arizona heat and rough handling. I always use shielded cables anytime these will be close to electric carrying cables or power supplies. Yes, these are less flexible and tend to be thicker. You can also use angled connectors to reduce stress on the cables. Not sure why manufacturers don't convert to USB-C which is easier. Just make sure they are labeled SS (Super Speed) for USB 3 or above. Braided cables offer greater durability. and prevent the mini copper cables inside from tearing. Lastly, if the cable is cheap, it is not going to last.
I only buy high quality ones now... We think nothing of spending ££££ on mounts and optics but expect a cable for £10 to behave. I'll upload a link when I can find it, but they sell to AUDIO/ VISUAL professionals and the cables are tested and come with a high level of specifications.... Lindy and JuiceEbits... Both recommended
There's also apparently the Linky cables from First Light Optics that are popular!
Thanks for sharing this experience Cuiv. I think these could be a common problem with most of the amateur astrophotographers. Hope somebody will share a shop’s link where we can order good quality cables.
Apparently the FLO Lindy cables are the deal! tinyurl.com/5xphtb78
I brought some USB3 'Lindy' cables from First Light Optics in the UK. for my asiair to cameras. I'm really happy with the quality and they came with a polythene sheath that keeps out any moisture in the atmosphere. Very happy with the quality of them.
That's awesome to hear, thanks for this! I'll look into those cables!
The rules I learned years ago, in the earlier days of IT, are the following: 1. Check the cables. All of them. 2. Power it off and on again. 3. Are you sure it’s not the cable(s)?
Hehehe good way of making sure!
I had to go home once because I didn't bring an extra USB A-B cable. I carry extras with me now. Another time, every GoTo command would point the rig straight into the ground. I only realized the next day that Green Swamp Server was set to East instead of West. The rig thought it was somewhere on the other side of the world.
I did go home once because I thought I didn't have a cable. Then when I got home, the cable was right there. But it was black. I couldn't see it on the site, even with a red light.
I now have all my cables in white and yellow.
Oh yes the silliest things can truly ruin so much...!
This is why I have three or four times as many cables as I need for my setup, and at least three separate power sources. You really can't have too many spare cables, or too many sources of power for your rig.
Spare cables are important, I think I'm going to have some in my car as well, from when I go imaging in distant places!
I eventually made a formal dinner jacket from all my bad cables😂
Mwahahaha that would look very beautiful for sure :)
I had this issue so many times for real! And I also knew it was the cable, after it happened the 10th time! LOL! I kept promising myself that I will throw away the bad USB cables, but somehow they made it back in my drawer and later on ended up back on the scope, and there we go again! There are also some very very nice looking cables that look tough and rugged, but they are just trash. That's how I end up not throwing them away, they look to good to be bad!
My worst nightmare struck when my first mount the EQM35-Pro's DEC wire snagged on an azimuth bolt head and it stopped the mount while I was slewing. I had never had this issue since I had the mount for almost a year. It bent the pins inside the cable and I had to use pliers to straighten them as much as I could but they are still bent. They are really hard to bend back. I just put in an order for my second mount, a budget harmonic drive that has more capacity. I got the new UMi 17R with FRAM on preorder. Hope you can review this one as well, Cuiv!
Congrats on your new mount, hope you get it soon!
I only realized this year that USB-C cables are actually active components with logic boards in their plugs. They can negotiate speed and voltage with the connector they are plugged in! This was a revelation to me, which was very important for example for getting a very compact and reliable 12V power supply out of a 12V selecting cable in connection with a (quite new) powerbank. That cable itself basically negotiates with the powerbank, that the powerbank should provide 12V, not 5V, and presto!
That is the difference between Android, Windows, and Apple. Android has the circuitry in their boxes and NOT the cable. That is why Apple cables cost more.... the Android cables are the way they should have implemented it.... KISS method that Apple failed to follow.
I had a usb cable problem, guide cam would not work we worked out it was USB cable changed all cables to quality ones direct from Lindy cables in the UK, no issues since. So moral of this story is use good quality cables from a known good supplier.
Lindy cables seem to have good reviews!
I've been testing camera USB cables by running them in SharpCap at maximum frame rate using USB 3.0. I was floored by the frame drops. I need a 90-degree angled cable to fit my setup, and of the more than dozen cables I've tried over the last little while, only ONE worked properly. BTW I have not found any cable that matches the one ZWO provided for throughput. That flat cable has the lowest number of frame drops when tested alone, but when bunched with other cables, all bets are off.
Great video, and a reminder to keep cables separated, especially data from power.
That plastic cable holder Cuiv showed us not a good idea?
I bought a new power supply for my eagle thinking it didnt have enough juice to power up my cameras, filter, focuser etc and was making my connection with the mount unstable (it kept randomly disconnecting). I thought it couldnt be the USB, because I tested with two different cables.
So, I bought an Eagle 4 thinking that my unit was defective. And then, exactly the same problem happened, even with a beefier power supply and brand new eagle.
Decided to buy two new usb cables. First one, same problem AGAIN, but the other one finally fixed it and I havent had a single mount disconnection issue since. Let me just say, the previous 2.0 gen USB-B are trash, really prone to bad contact/connection, would easily slip etc. Havent had a single issue with the 3.0 USB-B yet
Also if you have a USB 2 and 3 on the same hub, from the hub to the computer the it will all run at USB 2 speed. Also having filtered USB cables on your camera cables helps with interference showing up in your subs.
Oh yes hubs are another can of worms!
From what I read on the web, this is not true. A USB3 hub apparently has 2 separate data lines for USB2 and USB3, so will not slow everything down to USB2
Cuiv I recall a while back, I purchased a brand new SW HEQ5 Pro mount, and literally the first night outside, the cable that connects the hand controller to the mount, had snagged and practically snapped the damn cable!! I was GUTTED!! 😱😂. Ever since I'm OTT about cable management!
Awesome, educational, useful vid' as always! Thanks again Cuiv, love this channel! 🔥👍
Oh yes I know the feeling! I've have my own share of cables destroyed after a cable snag!
I had similar issues with an aftermarket cable that worked fine with the 294MC Pro with an ASIAir not working with a 585 MC Pro with the same setup. Switching to the red cable that came with the 585 solved it as well. Going back to the 294 MC Pro and the older cable continued to work fine. I think these cameras can just be more picky about their cables - sometimes they work with cheaper cables, sometimes they don't. Note that the symptom for me was that it would take about 2-5 photos just fine, then stop working. I'd have to unplug/plug it back in again. I guess it could be interference as you suggested as well.
So many gremlins can cause issues...
I never thought about interference as being a problem, I usually run 3 cables (widefield rig). Mount, camera and efw. But I might keep this in mind since I just switched to a qhy camera which has 0 extra usb ports.
It's not something obvious for sure, and it's difficult to estimate the true impact...
This is a very good video and applies to a lot of situations! I don't see an issue with EM interference between adjacent data cables, it's all very low voltage. Never put 120VAC or 240VAC power cables against them parallel, though!
I have the same problem, I spent about a month, since there were no clear nights. He also worked normally on a computer, but in ASI Air worked for 2 minutes, after which the camera fell off. I went out of this situation by switching the cable to the USB 2.0. I wanted to send asi Air back to the store, but a friend prompted replacing the cable. And it earned.
Oh wow, I'm so glad you got to the bottom of it thanks to your friend!
So sorry this happened to you on a night with no wind, a low pressure, no turbulence up to 100km and a complete blackout in the greater Tokyo area. 😢
Mwahaaha exactly! It was just the PERFECT night :D Thanks for letting me have this :)
I think about my cables constantly. I have many substitute cables, connectors, every conceivable adaptor multiple times over. Its the worst when a cable gets snagged and breaks and you have no way to get your gear going again.
Very good to know! I would have been inventing brand-new hyphenated words with growling sounds. Thank you very much for the heads up!
Glad it was helpful!
Excellant information, i have many problems with cable, especially in humid countary like Malaysia.
I was at the point of boxing up all my gear to sell, then I saw an article on usb c cables. One new cable later, nirvana returned.
Oh wow, glad you got to the bottom of it without selling all your equipment!
I had experienced the same problems with cables bought from amazon and ironically one Uk optical store said they don't stock cables and to buy from Amazon.
In contrast to that FLO did stock cables that they recommended
My flat USB3 cables that came with my ZWO camera would never connect with my laptop USB3 port but worked via USB2.
As you said you need better quality cables and you can't really trust anything you buy based on the label or price.
This is the second comment I see mentioning needing to use the USB2 port... things are really weird sometimes...
blue was originally USB2 and USB 3 was red - then they just wanted to confuse us 🤷♀
lots of usb problems can also be power delivery related. shorted the faster...
And then you have Razer using green, and other brands using other colors! And of course technically white USB plug would be USB1, and black would be USB2, but that's actually not so strong either :)
@@CuivTheLazyGeek plz check community tab as need your advice sir cuiv
This is sooo common these days, the manufactured specs compared to the cable you buy is vastly different. I have had so many fail on me where I have half the image train appart till it was evident that it was a failed cable. I was having focouser problems, yet could operate my astro camera perfectly, the last thing that came to my mind was the cable going from thee astro camera to the PC, I had swapped the cable going from focouser to the camera 7 times that night, and went to the local petrol station to buy a new cable, which was not up to spec for fast video delivery. I am about to spend money on Cable Mod cables just because you are guarenteed quality.
Hello Cuiv.
Had the same issue with a ZWO USB2 cable connecting my HEQ5 mount to the computer. It took me weeks to figure out what was going on until a friend helped me. The cable looked absolutely fine, but was damaged.
Exactly, that must have been so frustating! Glad you got to the bottom of it!
Completely under discussed topic in this hobby. My QHY294m is extraordinarily picky about the cables I use. I end up swapping out the cable every 6 to 9 months. All set up for a night and I'll get the exact same kind of errors you described. I'll go out there, pull the cable, put a new one on and I'm good to go. I just wish I knew why cables go bad and what is a quality USB 3 cable before I buy it.
Always good to have backup cables!
It is always the cable. If something doesn't work, always start troubleshooting from cables, then everything else.
Yep, sounds like a good approach!
Interesting, I had the same problem a few weeks ago - have never thrown a cable away as fast as as binned that cable - had several nights of lost imaging. I was a very unhappy bunny.
Several nights?? That must have been painful for sure...
@@CuivTheLazyGeek I cried a lot, but smiled when i realized i didn't have to shell out for a new camera...
Yeah I had a USB cable (provided by ZWO!!) connecting my 533MC Pro to my ASIAir. The only symptom it had was once a night or so ilI would get an "exposure failed" message... And allllll night it would randomly not register an exposure being completed with no error at all. So for example my counter would be on image 6/50 and randomly at the end of the next exposure it would STAY at 6/50 and just keep going. I was losing a dozen or more shots over the course of a night. No error recorded in the log either.
Cheap Amazon USB cable (from Cable Matters) has fixed everything.
Crazy how changing a cable can solve so many random issues!
I had a similar issue but even changing the cable didn't help much. I found that from my equipment being outside in the elements, the connectors on my usb port had oxidized and started to cause issues. I found a thread on Cloudy Nights where another person was having the same issues and he used a little tube of this stuff called Deoxit cleaner/enhancer. I bought this off Amazon and tried it by just putting some on the end of the USB cable and plugging and unplugging the cable several times and then just let it dry. Later I tried and now the USB port works perfectly without any issues. Maybe you could take that cable out of the trash and try this 🙂 If this product isn't available in Japan, there may be another brand of electrical contact cleaner that is!
I have used Deoxit for years. It is amazing stuff. Also good to keep battery contacts clean and if you ever have a leaking battery this will clean up the mess and restore the metal contact.
That's an excellent tip, thank you as always Dave!
Interesting topic. I'll have to check my wire bundle and see if I have my camera cables in close proximity. You know I was having problems with my Stellarmate Pro not being able to secure a GPS lock. No matter what I did it just would not lock. So I contacted Stellarmate and they told me to unplug all my USB 3.0 devices and then turn on the Stallarmate Pro. Evidently there is an issue with USB 3.0 only that causes problems with the GPS. Because as soon I did as they suggested, I got an immediate GPS Lock. And it stayed locked even after I plugged my cameras back in. For one of the more simple pieces of equipment, it sure can be a pain in the back side when they want to. ;o)
Oh man that is fascinating as well... Glad you got to the bottom of it!
I had the same problem as you are experiencing a couple of years ago.
I ended up buying quality Lindy and Deltaco cables, they have been running fine for several years now in my obsy. (even at 3+ meters length)
/Daniel
You are right to narrow the issues down to the reliability of the USB connections.
However, I am convinced that the real issue lies in the connectors!
USB connections are really not designed to function when the cables are moved all the time. The worst culprits for failure are where the socket relies on just the soldered connection to the PCB for mechanical strength. This is not isolated to the astro-equipment industry: Think Walkman jack sockets or mobile phones... :(
The only exception I have seen in astronomy equipment is the captive mini USB to the Polemaster, of all things. The irony being that you only need to have it connected occasionally.
True as well, connectors are another and probably common point of failure... Sigh. So many things can go wrong!
Ahhhh! I’ve been having the virtually the same weird issues with my asi533mc and Asiair with my hyperstar. Disconnects, eaf disconnected then connected, mount not found. This is after almost three years of no issues with the Zwo cable. I also noticed that the 533mc no longer gave usb3.0 as an option which is what had me leaning towards the Zwo cable being the culprit.
Thanks.
Oh wow, that's a frustrating issue as well! Glad you found what appears to be the root cause!
@@CuivTheLazyGeek we’ll see. I ordered a new cable after watching your video today.
I had lots of issue with USB cables in the past. It took me some time to figure out why remote access was lagging or dropping connection while imaging only to find out that USB 3.0 interference causes Wi-fi to malfunction (basically a DDOS attack). I switched everything to USB 2.0 since then. it's more stable at a cost of slower image download. I'm completely ok not getting more imaging time due to slow image downloads but it's 100x more stable and stress free.
That's great to know, thank you!
Great presentation, informative.
Thank you!
I lost 5 hours of imaging time one night because my mount's power adapter's North America AC plug adapter. It had slipped out far enough to not connect, but not far enough to drop out of its slot on the AC adapter. Meanwhile, my mount still had power. It was drawing power through its connection to my StellarMate OS Raspberry Pi. I could use the hand controller to slew the mount manually just fine. But whenever the Stellarmate commanded the mount to slew, it wouldn't move.
I also had a USB power adapter plugged into the AC outlet alongside the mount's adapter. I was concerned that maybe something weird was happening between the mount's ground and the USB's ground (I was clutching at straws after hours of faffing around!) So I grabbed my portable power pack, disconnected the power cable from the mount and put in the cigarette lighter power adapter, plugged the various other devices into the power pack's USB power ports, and I was able to start all over again with aligning the mount, polar alignment, etc. and get in 90 minutes of imaging before closing up shop for the night.
It was when I was cleaning up that I picked up the mount's AC adapter and had the AC plug fall out onto the ground.
I have now glued the North America adapter into its slot with about ten pounds of urethane adhesive. Never again!
Oh wow that sounds so incredibly frustrating, I'm glad you found the issue!
Reminds me a little of my last "attempted" imaging session. One of my ZWO cameras has the flat cable and was having the camera connecting, cutting out and connecting on and off.
Argh that must have been so frustrating
@@CuivTheLazyGeek extremely, especially in the UK, limited clear nights!!
Actually, I sent back my ASI 2600MM to the dealer, and that particular model I never want to see in my (ersatz)obsi. My suspicion is that the model as a whole is just too sloppy, the USB stack crashed, the Peltier for some reason kept running and cooking the sensor (cooling fan stopped because reasons), until I physically disconnected the whole thing. Rinse and repeat. Changed cables, changed PC, changed the power source (the 533MM works perfectly with the same setup and cable etc), so I'm going with a different vendor's IMX 571 MM. I mean... watchdog... something... anything
Eeeek that's a bad experience...
@@CuivTheLazyGeek Also, cable kinks. I try to physically keep the USB cable straight and away from other possible interference, like the mount drive. In the ersatz-obsi, I built and programmed almost everything myself. Only the stepper motors remained from the EQ3 mount, the drive, the motofocus, the ST4 implementation (though pin compatible), the filter wheel drive, all and everything is built and programmed by myself.
the power cable from my AM-5 to the ASIAir got caught and bent the jack and distorted the socket on the ASIAir ... fortunately the ASIAir still works!
An alternate theory ( if you haven't thrown that cable away yet ), Your device manager was in a high refresh rate due to a port conflict. If your computer had already assigned a port for the focuser and then you added the ASI2600 MC Pro Duo, on power up it detected the guide camera and assigned it the same port as the focuser and that's when it went down hill. The cable may still be an issue but I think the port assignment was also an issue. Clear skies #LookUpItsTheOnlyWayOut.
Interesting, that would make sense as well... The cable has already gone to cable heaven though...
Great to know Cuiv! Thank you for sharing. I think I will also replace my flat USB3 cables against round and shorter ones. I have the feeling that I loose some speed somewhere are well as my AsiAir needs long time updating as well even though I also use these cable organisers on the camera and the AsiAir.
PS: Still waiting for the MeowAstro review. 😄 Unfortunately they are going to release a new UMI17 with a much nicer appearance (it has a cat on its housing) this month. The new version will hit the market even before my mount has arrived. 😭
You're not using the ASIAir Mini right? This one is limited to USB2. I've been wanting to review the UMi17 Lite, but the weather hasn't allowed me to!
I agree that the flat cables supplied by ZWO lack shielding, but they are also weak (wire is too thin). When I first bought a ZWO camera I liked this flat design cable, since it bundled nicely in a cable management scheme, but within several months one failed, then another and then another. I tried them on other devices and they did not work. I have since gone to a good quality slender, round, braided design of cable with no issues after several years use. Sometimes it is even how loose the USB plug fits that will make it fail. On the female ports on my laptop, for instance, I have used a dental pick to bend the springy retaining tangs for improved grip (computer powered off of course).
Sound advice. USB2 cable plugs are my pet hate. The fit in the socket is poor and sometimes a slight movement can cause lost connection.
Oh yeah this can happen too...
Very good advice Cuiv. I worked in electrical/electronic engineering for fifty years before retirement, poor cable management, sub standard cables and connectors and cables used for something they weren't designed for were responsible for a lot of problems I was called upon to solve. Now I only buy cables from reputable suppliers that specialise in supplying the astro photography market. Buying cheap USB and power cables online is asking for trouble.
What brands do you recommend? Kondor Blue any good?
@@lionki3 I have never used them so I can't say. I've never had any trouble with Lynx Astro cables but they are relatively expensive, but then again compared to the overall price of the rig it's still only a small amount to pay. I live in the UK and buy my cables from First Light Optics, I had a bit of a connectivity problem last year and found their tech support team very helpful.
Thanks for the feedback! I guess in the end it would also be nice to have locking mechanisms on our connectors... and something to avoid corrosion!
Hi Cuiv, good report, I had exactly the same experience with my Altair 26C, I changed over the usb cable and it worked, but only for a couple of days then failed again, this time I couldn't rectify it so, I reached out to Altair I returned the camera to them (it was just out of warranty) they checked it and found it was the board 😢, it can be repaired £400 ouch. Hope this is not the same for you.
Ouch for the board... glad they got it fixed for now!
Wow, thanks. I had the exact same problem before.
Great overview and info. Thanks.
My pleasure!
You have no idea how many cables I have gone through. I think I have gone through more than 15 usb cables from several brands. Including some that are branded as military grade toughness. Dropped connections, freezing mounts and so many other issues
Oh wow, that's a lot of cables! I'm wondering now with the comments about connectors as well...
I found that when i leave the cablles hanging instead of having neat cable management , i run into lots of problems like this. Pretty doesnt always work well
Okay, I struggled yesterday with RP5 + Stellarmate, had exactly the issue Cuiv has described (windows machine worked perfectly fine). And by the way, I used all flat cables. I will try different cables and see if that helps.
Oh wow, I hope changing the cables will help!
I bought a new ASI2600MC and the first time I tried to use it, I got intermittent image download failures. My first thought was a problem with my ASIAIR, so I used a different device, same problem. I assumed that my. camera was defective since the cable was brand new and came with the camera. But I switched the cable out and the camera has been fine ever since. Now I have a plethora of backup cables for all the different usb connecters and speeds.
Cuiv, Great video as always and certainly an important topic based on the large number of comments below. I experienced similar issues with my new ASI2600 MC Pro - only the red 2M USB-3 cable worked! It was too long for my setup and none of the other supplied cable would allow image downloads. I eventually got a shorter 5Gb/s cable from Pegasus Astro that worked fine. I suspect that all the larger sensor camera (APSC and full frame) may have similar issues or perhaps its a quirk of ZWO?? Thanks again.
AS an IT guy, whenever cables link anything, cables are the first thing I think of as where the problem probably is...
Recently my CGEM mount stopped connecting... After almost a week of trying different things on my spare time, finally looks that is my USB to serial cable ¬¬'
I thing if you haven't been musician or electrician and made your own cables, most of the people don't know how to treat their cables, they don't know how to fold them / roll them. They usually fold them the way that twists them and put too much tension into the cables essentially destroying them.
I'm likely very guilty of that :(
Una cadena es tan fuerte como el más débil de sus eslabones...todo es importante, y merece nuestra atención. Buen consejo!