Himmel’s bitter smile when he stops Frieren from kissing him was very painful. It’s probably something he wanted for a long time but even in that moment he was too principled to take advantage of the situation.
Well, you've said many times you wanted to see what Himmel was like in a fight. Here you go. Himmel fights with a focus that lets him be blind, deaf, distracted, and offered his deepest dreams, and fight on anyway.
An interesting thought about Solitar. It was hinted during her first appearance that she knew and was on good terms with the Demon King. Here we see that she served under the Demon King directly. She even confronted the Hero Party, didn’t kill any of them, and survived herself, and through all of that she still managed to remain only as a “Nameless Great Demon”. She managed to stay under the radar and remain unknown to humans.
22:41 Just to be clear, this means the scriptures (in the present) have been around for 1,600 years, but it says nothing of how long ago the Mythical Era was. The scriptures tell tales of that time, but that doesn't mean they were telling stories that had occurred shortly before they were written/given. We know the goddess walked the earth during the Mythical Era, but it doesn't say she gave humans the scriptures during that time, indeed nothing is said about how humanity acquired the scriptures. What this all does tell us though, is that Kraft's adventure likely took place less than 1,600 years ago, given his partner in the adventure was identifiable as a priest and that class presumably did not exist until the scriptures were given and some spells were decoded.
Grausam: Ok. I'll send you deeper into the illusion. Lets go to wedding night... Himmel (with nosebleed): You despicable demon! Frieren proceed to "Anya's face".
Character consistency: When Frieren saw Himmel's ghost made by a monster in one of the first espisodes he said "Frieren, shoot me.", thus Frieren recognised: "That is what Himmel would say". Because he has "never succumbed to the likes of some ilution."
I am here again today to thank you for the live! Now as said, take these two weeks also to reread the manga. There are so many things you will appreciate infinitely more. The anime is great for the treatment of the silences and some other unremarkable details, but the original work reread from the beginning is even better! This is coming from someone who is on his fifth unabridged reread (there aren't many manga that arouse that urge in me). I knew, in my heart, that you too would enjoy, in the end, the choice of live for these precise chapters. And now: The Empire! I won't do spoilers: can't wait for you to catch up! And my best girl is back! But for that there will be time to talk about who she is and why I love her!
I’m so mad at myself I wanted to be part of the stream ToT i’m not gonna miss the next one you will do ( bc that’s arc is so special to me!!! ) anyway I hope y’all had fun, and thank u for the reaction! I got my tea and I just finished all my assignments and presentation today aaaaah I feel so cozy and happy that I have nothing to do and 1h of Lindsay reaction to new chapters! Now this is gone be a great weekend
Demons able to meaningfully communicate and cooperate with other demons... demon who sacrificed himself for the future of his race... it might not be natural for them, but the pure intellectual effort can defy one's limitations. But Frieren's approach still makes sense in practice.
Frieren should be younger than 1500 years. She learned to suppress her mana from Flamme about 1000 years from the present time, and Frieren told Aura that she had been suppressing her mana for “most of her life”. Additionally she was quite young in appearance when she first met Flamme, and also inexperienced enough in magic that Flamme, despite being a regular human who by her appearance was younger than 40 at that time, was superior to her in both knowledge and mana. She also had never heard of Kraft, and if 1500 years really is the rough time when Kraft was active as a hero, then a certain amount of time would need to pass before Kraft’s deeds get forgotten. All this suggests that Frieren is only slightly older than 1000 years. 1500 is probably the upper limit to how old she can be, and she’s more likely to be closer to 1000 than she is to 1500.
One other thing I’ve noticed here. The Demon King, really isn’t much of a “King”. We’ve seen over and over again demons essentially ignoring or refusing to obey or follow the Demon King’s orders, with no negative consequences. The Demon King seems to have a very limited ability to impose his will or enforce discipline in the ranks of his army. This suggests that either his personal power cannot be leagues above those of the other top tier demons, or he’s actually a complete softie when it comes to disciplining subordinates. The top tier demons basically regard is orders as more like suggestions and view his title as “King” as basically a joke. They’re not remotely afraid of him, like at all.
@ Not really you said the demon king is not really a king because he is either not that powerful compared to others demons or he is a softie. For you it explains why some demons doesn't really obey him. I don't quite agree with your two hypothesis. I just think taht they are an individualistic species and as such doesn't listen much to order. Demon king will not personnaly come for each of them so most of the time so they can ignore him.
@@alexandredecarpentries6485 No. I said the Demon King was not "leagues above the others". We know for certain he is the most powerful demon in terms of mana, because the Demons' heirarchy is based on mana strength. But it is not just that the Demon King will not go after them personally. He also didn't send minions to enforce discipline. Real world Kings would do that, because it is essential to the proper running of a monarchy, as well as an army, to have that kind of discipline. All these high level demons refusing to participate in missions at whim and ignoring the Demon Kings order's had materially detrimental effects, which the manga explicitly shows us, on the effectiveness of the Demon Army. They LOST THE WAR because of the failure and incomplete successes of these missions. The DEMON KING DIED because of this disobedience. Their entire social organization, the "kingdom" of Demons the Demon King created, COLLAPSED because of this disobedience. If Demons are innately more individualistic, then a Demon who wants to be a proper "King" would need to be EVEN MORE STRICT with the discipline. He would have to impose by FORCE and FEAR the social cohesion that does not come naturally to an individualistic species. The Demon King did not do that. Ergo, he, functionally, was NOT a "King", no matter what he called himself or what others called him. The social hierarchy/structure he created among the Demons he led was NOT, functionally, a "kingdom" or a "monarchy", but a looser, less ordered, and less structured type of social construct. In the way he led the other Demons, he was much more similar to what anthropologists would call a Tribal Big Man.
@ I think you are making a lot of assumptions. We don't exactly know why the demon king failed or even how exactly the "demon kingdom" was functionning. We only know after the death of the demon king some of the demon did stupid things like with the general who attacked Weise because the demon king was no longer here to command. Tot is the only one we see doesn't obey to DK + Match at first was reluctant but in then end obey. Yes the fact that the demon are individualistic make it difficult to command them and must have play a part in their demise but still i think "the demon kingdom" was pretty effective when the human controlled zone was reduced by 1/3. The DK was not a king like others sure but still he was a king and was able most of the time to order around others demons.
Try to sum up my theory about Solitar faking her death: . For start we need to describe Solitar as a demon - in many aspects she is very unic case. I can pick 3 of her main qualities: 1)First she is demon scientist - she love study humans, she understand human psychology very well, she study and collect human magic almost like Frieren (her dark reflection), which is very rare among demons which prefer to perfect one certain spell . 2)Second - she is very cautious. She try to avoid fights with strong opponents and does not try to do something big which would attract attention to her personality. More than that - she is aware that arrogance is major demon weakness and try to avoid this kind of trap (this is why she refuse to attack Himmel party head on) . 3)Solitar and Grausam (aside from Shlacht) are most loyal demons to Demon King.and Solitar even care about existence of demons as a race .
Thanks for sharing! Honestly this arc is my least fav part of Frieren, mostly because of me not really liking time travel( although it being a closed loop helps a lot) even though the rest of stuff is good as always. On the plus side it's an interesting setup for Solitair maybe not being dead. I'd personally like her as the big bad if there's one.
NO ahahaha I’m so done with Solitär hahaha but I would accept it if she came back 😂 I’m really interested in the fact that some of those demons are still around
It doesn't click for me why one would think Solitär isn't dead. This encounter was in the "past." In the present the encounter in the golden land Fern struck her with long distance Zoltraak and Frieren finished her of it is right there as panel with her being mana-particles. Where is this confusion coming from?
@@Airwave2k2 Solitär in her introduction established herself as very risk adverse, so her actually fighting to the death was odd. This encounter doubled down on it. Solitär's gimmick is being able to learn magics much like Frieren, it's entirely possible she learned clone magic from observing the one sage or even humans like Land. I personally don't believe it's likely she's still around, but I do believe that there is enough of a setup to make her still being a factor not be unreasonable.
Try to sum up my theory about Solitar faking her death: . For start we need to describe Solitar as a demon - in many aspects she is very unic case. I can pick 3 of her main qualities: 1)First she is demon scientist - she love study humans, she understand human psychology very well, she study and collect human magic almost like Frieren (her dark reflection), which is very rare among demons which prefer to perfect one certain spell . 2)Second - she is very cautious. She try to avoid fights with strong opponents and does not try to do something big which would attract attention to her personality. More than that - she is aware that arrogance is major demon weakness and try to avoid this kind of trap (this is why she refuse to attack Himmel party head on) . 3)Solitar and Grausam (aside from Shlacht) are most loyal demons to Demon King.and Solitar even care about existence of demons as a race . Now back to my theory. We know that end result of Goddess Monument arc demons get Frieren memories about future. Base on this they can build their plans of "revenge". Thats mean Grausam 100% fake his death (because he know about it) and question is - did he tell Solitar about future? My guess is yes. That would explain Solitar strange behavior - out blue sky for zero reason she attack and destroy Imperial borderline fortress. This is huge and reckless move from Solitar (Empire is a strong opponent which can slay even demons on Solitar lvl). What was her reason to risk so much? Not to mention - this was long BEFORE Himmel death = during peaceful times when demons try to hide themselves from humans. . Considering Golden Land arc - timing for Solitar come to visit Macht is very strange. She had 50+ years to do so...and yet she choose to come exactly when Frieren is there. More than that - Solitar FEEL Frieren presence and still decide to take action, instead of wait another year or so (when Frieren decide to move away). Also during Golden Land arc, Solitar act very strange for her usual self. She toy with Stark and Fern (which cost her a wound) instead of killing them in couple seconds. She stated that her original goal was to fight and kill Macht...which is pure suicide for her (Same Solitar decide to avoid fight against Himmel and Macht is way stronger than Himmel). And finally she decide to fight against Frieren in a deathmatch (while during Goddess Monument arc Solitar stated that she hate fight against strong opponents and she rather run away, than fight to the death). All of this sound as if she decide to turn off her survival instinct...OR if she has zero stakes in those fights because it was well staged plan from the start . My take - Grausam share information with Solitar and both of them stage a Stein's Gate type of plan (change outcome without changing event itself). With Frieren knowledge of future - demons could make preparations, BUT they NEED Frieren to live until she reach Goddess Monument because it is essential for their plan. This is why they cant intervene in order to change the future (like kill Frieren, Fern, Stark, etc) because it could cause butterfly effect and ruin their plans. So my take - Solitar reason to attack imperial fortress was in order to find mage (Land grand mother) who can teach her "Perfect clone" magic. With this Solitar was able to trick Frieren - we saw how Solitar fade out, but Perfect Clone magic could fake this as well (just like Land fake his golem bottle during exam). . Now when Frieren think that Solitar is dead, she come to the Goddess monument as it should be, while demons have alliance consist of at least 3-4 Greater Demons and big plan with 70+ years of preparations, while humanity is lower it guard and does not aspect big troubles from demons
No wonder the demons waited for Himmel to die before acting up-he could annihilate them with his eyes closed.
Even 2v1 with greater demons he was doing fine.
@ObiwanNekody Himmel is HIM
Himmel’s bitter smile when he stops Frieren from kissing him was very painful. It’s probably something he wanted for a long time but even in that moment he was too principled to take advantage of the situation.
Well, you've said many times you wanted to see what Himmel was like in a fight.
Here you go. Himmel fights with a focus that lets him be blind, deaf, distracted, and offered his deepest dreams, and fight on anyway.
An interesting thought about Solitar. It was hinted during her first appearance that she knew and was on good terms with the Demon King. Here we see that she served under the Demon King directly. She even confronted the Hero Party, didn’t kill any of them, and survived herself, and through all of that she still managed to remain only as a “Nameless Great Demon”. She managed to stay under the radar and remain unknown to humans.
22:41 Just to be clear, this means the scriptures (in the present) have been around for 1,600 years, but it says nothing of how long ago the Mythical Era was. The scriptures tell tales of that time, but that doesn't mean they were telling stories that had occurred shortly before they were written/given. We know the goddess walked the earth during the Mythical Era, but it doesn't say she gave humans the scriptures during that time, indeed nothing is said about how humanity acquired the scriptures.
What this all does tell us though, is that Kraft's adventure likely took place less than 1,600 years ago, given his partner in the adventure was identifiable as a priest and that class presumably did not exist until the scriptures were given and some spells were decoded.
... And see? Himmel's so good he could win with his eyes closed 😂
Well,... it was a around the corner, ... back then.
Grausam: Ok. I'll send you deeper into the illusion. Lets go to wedding night...
Himmel (with nosebleed): You despicable demon!
Frieren proceed to "Anya's face".
wicked
Grausam: "I fashioned a prison you couldn't leave without sacrificing your heart's desire. It must have been like tearing off your own arm..."
Character consistency: When Frieren saw Himmel's ghost made by a monster in one of the first espisodes he said "Frieren, shoot me.", thus Frieren recognised: "That is what Himmel would say". Because he has "never succumbed to the likes of some ilution."
Rivale said he used axe to honor eisen, but considering he is a demon. He 100% just being petty 😂 like Linie.
I am here again today to thank you for the live! Now as said, take these two weeks also to reread the manga. There are so many things you will appreciate infinitely more. The anime is great for the treatment of the silences and some other unremarkable details, but the original work reread from the beginning is even better! This is coming from someone who is on his fifth unabridged reread (there aren't many manga that arouse that urge in me).
I knew, in my heart, that you too would enjoy, in the end, the choice of live for these precise chapters.
And now: The Empire! I won't do spoilers: can't wait for you to catch up! And my best girl is back! But for that there will be time to talk about who she is and why I love her!
I’m so mad at myself
I wanted to be part of the stream ToT i’m not gonna miss the next one you will do ( bc that’s arc is so special to me!!! ) anyway I hope y’all had fun, and thank u for the reaction! I got my tea and I just finished all my assignments and presentation today aaaaah I feel so cozy and happy that I have nothing to do and 1h of Lindsay reaction to new chapters! Now this is gone be a great weekend
Does anyone notice her background music is fuckin fit with every scene in manga?
Demons able to meaningfully communicate and cooperate with other demons... demon who sacrificed himself for the future of his race... it might not be natural for them, but the pure intellectual effort can defy one's limitations.
But Frieren's approach still makes sense in practice.
Solitar is back. Couldn't be asking for more 🥰
I am very happy that you got to read this arc I knew you would like it :)
Frieren should be younger than 1500 years. She learned to suppress her mana from Flamme about 1000 years from the present time, and Frieren told Aura that she had been suppressing her mana for “most of her life”. Additionally she was quite young in appearance when she first met Flamme, and also inexperienced enough in magic that Flamme, despite being a regular human who by her appearance was younger than 40 at that time, was superior to her in both knowledge and mana.
She also had never heard of Kraft, and if 1500 years really is the rough time when Kraft was active as a hero, then a certain amount of time would need to pass before Kraft’s deeds get forgotten.
All this suggests that Frieren is only slightly older than 1000 years. 1500 is probably the upper limit to how old she can be, and she’s more likely to be closer to 1000 than she is to 1500.
Great stream. Thank you for the time you'd taken.
One other thing I’ve noticed here. The Demon King, really isn’t much of a “King”.
We’ve seen over and over again demons essentially ignoring or refusing to obey or follow the Demon King’s orders, with no negative consequences. The Demon King seems to have a very limited ability to impose his will or enforce discipline in the ranks of his army. This suggests that either his personal power cannot be leagues above those of the other top tier demons, or he’s actually a complete softie when it comes to disciplining subordinates. The top tier demons basically regard is orders as more like suggestions and view his title as “King” as basically a joke. They’re not remotely afraid of him, like at all.
i don't agree. It just show that the demons are more of an individual race.
@@alexandredecarpentries6485 "More of an individual race" is essentially saying the same thing as I just outlined, though.
@ Not really you said the demon king is not really a king because he is either not that powerful compared to others demons or he is a softie. For you it explains why some demons doesn't really obey him. I don't quite agree with your two hypothesis. I just think taht they are an individualistic species and as such doesn't listen much to order. Demon king will not personnaly come for each of them so most of the time so they can ignore him.
@@alexandredecarpentries6485 No. I said the Demon King was not "leagues above the others". We know for certain he is the most powerful demon in terms of mana, because the Demons' heirarchy is based on mana strength. But it is not just that the Demon King will not go after them personally. He also didn't send minions to enforce discipline. Real world Kings would do that, because it is essential to the proper running of a monarchy, as well as an army, to have that kind of discipline. All these high level demons refusing to participate in missions at whim and ignoring the Demon Kings order's had materially detrimental effects, which the manga explicitly shows us, on the effectiveness of the Demon Army. They LOST THE WAR because of the failure and incomplete successes of these missions. The DEMON KING DIED because of this disobedience. Their entire social organization, the "kingdom" of Demons the Demon King created, COLLAPSED because of this disobedience. If Demons are innately more individualistic, then a Demon who wants to be a proper "King" would need to be EVEN MORE STRICT with the discipline. He would have to impose by FORCE and FEAR the social cohesion that does not come naturally to an individualistic species.
The Demon King did not do that. Ergo, he, functionally, was NOT a "King", no matter what he called himself or what others called him. The social hierarchy/structure he created among the Demons he led was NOT, functionally, a "kingdom" or a "monarchy", but a looser, less ordered, and less structured type of social construct. In the way he led the other Demons, he was much more similar to what anthropologists would call a Tribal Big Man.
@ I think you are making a lot of assumptions. We don't exactly know why the demon king failed or even how exactly the "demon kingdom" was functionning. We only know after the death of the demon king some of the demon did stupid things like with the general who attacked Weise because the demon king was no longer here to command. Tot is the only one we see doesn't obey to DK + Match at first was reluctant but in then end obey. Yes the fact that the demon are individualistic make it difficult to command them and must have play a part in their demise but still i think "the demon kingdom" was pretty effective when the human controlled zone was reduced by 1/3. The DK was not a king like others sure but still he was a king and was able most of the time to order around others demons.
Yeah stark might kill Rivale in the Manga since he fought Eisen before and to get justice for his brother
He's 99% the baddie of a potential arc with Wirbel. Stark will end the generational rivalry once and for all.
Try to sum up my theory about Solitar faking her death:
.
For start we need to describe Solitar as a demon - in many aspects she is very unic case. I can pick 3 of her main qualities:
1)First she is demon scientist - she love study humans, she understand human psychology very well, she study and collect human magic almost like Frieren (her dark reflection), which is very rare among demons which prefer to perfect one certain spell
.
2)Second - she is very cautious. She try to avoid fights with strong opponents and does not try to do something big which would attract attention to her personality. More than that - she is aware that arrogance is major demon weakness and try to avoid this kind of trap (this is why she refuse to attack Himmel party head on)
.
3)Solitar and Grausam (aside from Shlacht) are most loyal demons to Demon King.and Solitar even care about existence of demons as a race
.
Thank you for sharing 😊
Thanks for sharing! Honestly this arc is my least fav part of Frieren, mostly because of me not really liking time travel( although it being a closed loop helps a lot) even though the rest of stuff is good as always.
On the plus side it's an interesting setup for Solitair maybe not being dead. I'd personally like her as the big bad if there's one.
NO ahahaha I’m so done with Solitär hahaha but I would accept it if she came back 😂 I’m really interested in the fact that some of those demons are still around
Instead of solitar, i feel it's more of preparing Tod as the end game boss.
@@lenOwOo mmmmh could be, she is interesting but doesn't have the "presence" yet if i explain myself correctly. Could change in the future ofc.
It doesn't click for me why one would think Solitär isn't dead. This encounter was in the "past." In the present the encounter in the golden land Fern struck her with long distance Zoltraak and Frieren finished her of it is right there as panel with her being mana-particles. Where is this confusion coming from?
@@Airwave2k2 Solitär in her introduction established herself as very risk adverse, so her actually fighting to the death was odd. This encounter doubled down on it. Solitär's gimmick is being able to learn magics much like Frieren, it's entirely possible she learned clone magic from observing the one sage or even humans like Land.
I personally don't believe it's likely she's still around, but I do believe that there is enough of a setup to make her still being a factor not be unreasonable.
good stuff as always
Try to sum up my theory about Solitar faking her death:
.
For start we need to describe Solitar as a demon - in many aspects she is very unic case. I can pick 3 of her main qualities:
1)First she is demon scientist - she love study humans, she understand human psychology very well, she study and collect human magic almost like Frieren (her dark reflection), which is very rare among demons which prefer to perfect one certain spell
.
2)Second - she is very cautious. She try to avoid fights with strong opponents and does not try to do something big which would attract attention to her personality. More than that - she is aware that arrogance is major demon weakness and try to avoid this kind of trap (this is why she refuse to attack Himmel party head on)
.
3)Solitar and Grausam (aside from Shlacht) are most loyal demons to Demon King.and Solitar even care about existence of demons as a race
.
Now back to my theory. We know that end result of Goddess Monument arc demons get Frieren memories about future. Base on this they can build their plans of "revenge". Thats mean Grausam 100% fake his death (because he know about it) and question is - did he tell Solitar about future? My guess is yes. That would explain Solitar strange behavior - out blue sky for zero reason she attack and destroy Imperial borderline fortress. This is huge and reckless move from Solitar (Empire is a strong opponent which can slay even demons on Solitar lvl). What was her reason to risk so much? Not to mention - this was long BEFORE Himmel death = during peaceful times when demons try to hide themselves from humans.
.
Considering Golden Land arc - timing for Solitar come to visit Macht is very strange. She had 50+ years to do so...and yet she choose to come exactly when Frieren is there. More than that - Solitar FEEL Frieren presence and still decide to take action, instead of wait another year or so (when Frieren decide to move away). Also during Golden Land arc, Solitar act very strange for her usual self. She toy with Stark and Fern (which cost her a wound) instead of killing them in couple seconds. She stated that her original goal was to fight and kill Macht...which is pure suicide for her (Same Solitar decide to avoid fight against Himmel and Macht is way stronger than Himmel). And finally she decide to fight against Frieren in a deathmatch (while during Goddess Monument arc Solitar stated that she hate fight against strong opponents and she rather run away, than fight to the death). All of this sound as if she decide to turn off her survival instinct...OR if she has zero stakes in those fights because it was well staged plan from the start
.
My take - Grausam share information with Solitar and both of them stage a Stein's Gate type of plan (change outcome without changing event itself). With Frieren knowledge of future - demons could make preparations, BUT they NEED Frieren to live until she reach Goddess Monument because it is essential for their plan. This is why they cant intervene in order to change the future (like kill Frieren, Fern, Stark, etc) because it could cause butterfly effect and ruin their plans. So my take - Solitar reason to attack imperial fortress was in order to find mage (Land grand mother) who can teach her "Perfect clone" magic. With this Solitar was able to trick Frieren - we saw how Solitar fade out, but Perfect Clone magic could fake this as well (just like Land fake his golem bottle during exam).
.
Now when Frieren think that Solitar is dead, she come to the Goddess monument as it should be, while demons have alliance consist of at least 3-4 Greater Demons and big plan with 70+ years of preparations, while humanity is lower it guard and does not aspect big troubles from demons
How funny would it be if the demon king happened to be a loli demon king. Lol