When I left the WOF Prosperity movement, I was naturally running far to the reformed community, and I immediately noticed that I ran into some of the SAME issues. human worship, Pride, superiority complex, mean spiritless, a lot of the same things I was running away from except it looked a little different. I also noticed that Steve would say things and get away with it, but if a charismatic did or said those things, the reformed community would blow the alarm everywhere. I have commented on people's videos about some of Steve's red flags a couple times in the past 1 year. And there is a willful ignorance going on there, similar to what I saw and how I behave when in the WOF. We need to be objective and acknowledge our biases and blind spots and extend grace equally. I don't know if anyone shocks me anymore. I was only surprised at the 5 years, but not surprised that he or anyone could deceive. heck, I'm dealing with my own relatives who are church leaders still in WOF. and when you struggle to understand the motives of close relatives, your expectations are not too high with anyone else you don't know personally. But you are soo spot on.
I went to John MacArthur's school, TMU (college back then), and know many of the players in that ecosystem. It took me 20 years but I began to see exactly what you're talking about.
You are 💯 right about Reformed standards for what a believer is, Steve Lawson by his own standards would state that Steve Lawson is not a True believer
Typically, an emotional affair is a friendship that lacks appropriate boundaries for those in committed relationships or marriages. Statistically, half of these “friendships” turn into full-blown, physical affairs. “Almost all research tells us that affairs happen when friendships occur to meet an unmet need in a marriage,” wrote Mike and Trisha Fox in a Crosswalk article. Scripture separates sexual immorality and adultery. “The Bible is very clear that adultery does NOT need to be sexual in nature,” Mike and Trisha Fox continued, “In fact, the sexual and physical act only proceeds what is already active adultery, unfaithfulness, and infidelity.” Matthew 5:28 warns, “But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.”
🎯🎯Clearly Lawson did not tell his wife and the church that he was going to “visit” the 20 year old! So, therefore he is a chronic, habitual liar, as far as we know, for at least 5 years.
I do not believe for one minute this was an emotional affair! There’s no way a man lying to his wife and the church is having a nonchalant relationship with a 20 year old and he’s late 60’s- BC he was HIDING IT.
You have nailed every point. Thank you for pointing out the hours and hours Lawson has spent demeaning other preachers. Lawson spouts righteousness and the sanctity of the pastor and promoting himself as a man of the highest spiritual honour and now we find this. And he still has not made a statement to all of his admirers!!!!
🎯🎯Clearly Lawson did not tell his wife and the church that he was going to “visit” the 20 year old out of state. So, therefore he is a chronic, habitual liar, as far as we know, for at least 5 years.
I've heard Calvinists say that he had "doctrinal purity." I didn't even know that was a "thing." Also in the reformed camp maturity is measured by how much you know (head knowledge) and not by what you do. They also believe that "preaching the word of God" expositorially is what "transforms" people. People only remember 10% of what they hear so it is no wonder that I fail to see little personal transformation in those who are reformed. Steve Lawson: doctrinal purity but no purity of character. Agreed about those who are reformed doing discernment ministries (yes, that is what they call them), they throw everyone under the bus. They need to be much more careful. By their standards because I believe that I have a relationship with God and that God answers my prayers, guides and directs me in decisions, etc....I'm a heretic. Good points all around!
Holiness with no grace and mercy sounds like the Pharisees and Sadducees. This is unfortunately one of the reasons many people are turned off from coming to Jesus Christ. Praying for the church as a whole. No matter how sound the doctrine is it's obvious sound doctrine is not enough to keep you.🙏🙏🙏🙏
in the middle of watching this live, let me address this "we had no FORNACATION during this 5 year affaire". several points here: 1) NO woman in her 20's is going to be attracted to a man in his 70's..NEVER UNLESS MONEY is involved. point 2) they had no "fornacation"? they are playing word games!, MANY false preachers and false christians define fornacation/adulatry as ONLY "sexual intercourse", they dont consider sexual activity outside of intercourse "fornacatiion/adulatry", REMEMBER bill clintons "I did not have sex with that woman"?? thats what you have here!. 3) if you believe there was no sexual activity during this 5 year affaire I have some land to sell you in paraguy!. point 4) IF they had no kissing or sexual activity during this 5 year period then WHY is he confessing to anything becouse no sexual sin occurred? ( Im leaving out here Jesus saying if you LOOK at a woman lustfully you have committed adulatry). NEXT point!, the biggest lie I have ever fell for and most preachers fall for is the lie that as long as my theology is right my charator/actions dont matter!. THANKS for pointing that out brother!!.
To attempt to answer your question, What type of vetting is done once a Minister is ordained? We must go back to the Early Church to determine their form of government. What form of government did the earliest Christians have? Of course, early Christian polity is a vast and complex subject with many different issues in play. But, I want to focus in upon a narrow one: Were the earliest churches ruled by a plurality of elders or a single bishop? Now it needs to be noted from the outset that by the end of the second century, most churches were ruled by a single bishop. For whatever set of reasons, monepiscopacy had won the day. Many scholars attribute this development to Ignatius. But, what about earlier? Was there a single-bishop structure in the first and early second century? The New Testament evidence itself seems to favor a plurality of elders as the standard model. The book of Acts tells us that as the apostles planted churches, they appointed “elders” (from the Greek term πρεσβυτέρος) to oversee them (Acts 11:30; 14:23; 15:2; 20:17). Likewise, Titus is told to “appoint elders in every town” (Titus 1:5). A very similar word, ἐπι,σκoπος (“bishop” or “overseer”), is used in other contexts to describe what appears to be the same ruling office (Phil 1:1; 1 Tim 3:1-7). The overlap between these two terms is evident in Acts 20:28 when Paul, while addressing the Ephesian “elders” (πρεσβυτέρους), declares that “The Holy Spirit has made you overseers (ἐπισκόπους).” Thus, the New Testament writings indicate that the office of elder/bishop is functionally one and the same. Therefore, to answer your question, there has to be a qualified selected group of elders/bishops who hold all clergy (and themselves) accountable based upon biblical standards. True godly ministers should have no problem having their text messages, phone calls, Facebook, twitter, etc. open for an ecclesiastical audit at all times by the elders. However, it is easy to buy a secondary phone where no one would know and create another Facebook account under another name, etc. So, trying to manage and oversee this would be nearly impossible.
@@Rev.VictorAlexandor agreed 👍🏻 💯 unfortunately though in some of these camps, are more like the mafia so the elders are just hit men for the pastor, so they’re corrupt to, it’s sad all the way around 🥲
You have heard it said "thou shall not commit adultery." But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
Excellent points made in the chat. My dad actually caught one of our former pastors engaged in sexual activity with the then secretary in the pastors office. My dad worked as the custodian during that time and being from the "silent generation" he didn't report it. That pastor did leave the church, but the damage had been done.
How many of those in the body of Christ have and are being deceived by SO MANY in the ministry "fall" and are dismissed from their churches due to sexual sins? WHEN will this all end?
@NotEasyButSimple You're good. Brother, I agree that the Reformed camp is hypocritical way too often...and cowardly. The fact that few have called out Doug Wilson and all that garbage he spews is bad enough. God will clean house, and HIS sword never misses.
🎯I do not believe for one minute this was an emotional affair! There’s no way a man lying to his wife and the church is having a nonchalant relationship with a 20 year old and he’s late 60’s- BC he was HIDING IT.
To answer your first question, I would say: The preacher with the sound doctrine but who sins is a Hypocrite, but he is not a wolf. He is simply a hypocrite. On the other hand, a false teacher who teaches heresy is a wolf in sheep's clothing, an angel of light. Thus, in this context, I would say that the Wolf is more dangerous to the Body of Christ than the "Sinning preacher" is. The hypocrite has simply allowed his flesh to dominate him while the wolf has allowed demons to dominate him, hence, he teaches "doctrines of demons."
You have summed that up perfectly IMO and something I have also been thinking on. I started realizing these exacts points. 💯 *I'd like to add this comment should be pinned* 😊
Even when he was exposed, he went and laid down his legalist hammer on everyone in that final sermon. Saying if you’re a true believer in Christ, you repent of all your sins.
I spent 15 years in pentecostal/charasmatic churches circles. In 2001 the Lord in his mercy and grace through listening to teachers with sound doctrine and discernment opened my eyes to the error and deception. I also had been in contact qith calvinism in my christian walk but I never knew that was what it was till I heard Dave Hunt preaching on it. Wow, that gave me understanding to know why they were like they were. As far as I am concerned the pentecostal/ charasmatic and Calvinism are extremes to be avoided. I read Charles Spurgeon who has been a vlessing to me, and I know he said that Calvinism is rhe gospel, but loke so many he was not a consistent calvinist. They believe it in there heads but how does it work in reality.
@@johnsteele870 completely agree 👍🏻 💯 I made a similar video saying both camps of the pentecostal and reformed camps are in trouble, so we are on the same frequency lol 😂 i came out of the prosperity gospel camp myself, thank God for His goodness!
@@josephbachota thanks for your reply Joseph, you ask a lot of good questions. I will take a look at the video you mentioned. May the Lord give us discerning and humble spirits in these perilous times. God bless
I watched I think majority of videos on this but not in entirety due to disgusting idolatry.. but this video ia by far the best. It made me rethink a lot
There is a big difference between discerning what your pastor is preaching every Sunday from the pulpit and what your pastor is doing at 1am in a hotel.
I agree mostly with your take and the need to call out the reformed camp. However, when it comes to discernment, we are responsible for spotting failures in orthodoxy but not so much for failure in orthopraxy, especially if the sins are done in secret. The doctrines are taught and documented in public, the sins are done in secret. I cannot get on people for not knowing what was done in secret (unless there were clear signs). However, not notifying unsound doctrine is without excuse. It is God’s job and work to bring the secret sims to light, it is our job to rebuke unsound teachings, as these are already in the light. I will not condemn anyone for not knowing that Zacharias or Lawson were secret hypocrites. We are not omniscient nor expected to be.
@@alainm6070 I agree with you but with one caveat, like I said, in the case of Lawson, there was clear case of pride, and arrogance so he at least should have been talked to about that, however, he probably wasn’t because some others in those camps are just as prideful so why would they? They reek of it to! But the adultery stuff, I agree . However Al Mohler said there were signs like Steve was always alone on trips, ok, did anyone say anything? I still have questions, thanks 😃
@josephbachota Pride is a huge issue in the Reformed camp...and yes that needs to be repented of by those engaging in it! That being said, God is going to humble ALL of us, one way or another. Jesus is our ONLY hope. Period.
@@akadwriter The Reformed camp is pretty broad. Where I come from globally, I’ve never met more humble and kind people who hold to Reformed theology. I’ve seen the negative side of many denominations within orthodoxy, but I wouldn’t make a claim like that based on a few groups of people. But I agree with you last point!
@Dan-ch8kv I agree that it's not everyone. I grew up in that camp and attend a RB church now. And lots of great people are reformed that I know even now as good friends. I didn't say it's everyone. But it's an issue that doesn't get addressed here in America. I think it's because correct theology attracts people who want to be right. That's my opinion at least.
Excellent video in explaining the likely mindset of many. As an aside, I would love for you to do a teaching video about Lordship Salvation versus Free Grace. This might be helpful to explain the differences / nuances between Calvinist and Reformers. Apologies if you’ve done a video about this previously.
As a reformed charismatic guy I’d simply say this happens in all denominational branches. I’m thinking of Bickle duping so many for decades. So I don’t think it is a theological distinctive issue as much as it is an ethical and lifestyle issue. What lead to this for Lawson? I’m guessing it was the long and frequent trips away from his wife. This lead to temptations. The warning is that we as men must cling/hold fast to our wives and be consistently in connection with her as we are called to be consistently connecting with our King. That said it might be harder in a Macarther like environment to confess sin to one another to let the Gospel do its healing work. But many pastors across denominations don’t have people in their lives whom they can easily do that with.
@@Dan-ch8kv I agree Dan this happens in all denominational lines, no argument there. I was coming from the questions of: how are some in the reformed camp going to deal with this and how will they view Lawson based upon their theology? You said it yourself, it’s hard to confess sin in the MacArthur camp, hence my video, so I agree 👍🏻💯 thanks 😊
@@josephbachota Appreciate the reply! I was speaking more to the number of comments here that are zeroing in on a specific tradition with an AHA! attitude. But I’d say it really depends. If he’s unrepentant and was a wolf all this time, he was never really saved. He preached truth in many cases (though I disagree with a number of things he’s said over the years), but as you said, preaching and life need to go hand in hand. The Ravi example is a case in point. I got my MA in Apologetics partly because of guys like him, and I’m a church planter in a primarily atheistic context today, so it hits hard.
I'm in the Reformed camp, and I saw quite a few signs that Lawson was off track. It was really up to the Elders at Trinity to protect the church, and they failed big time. It was crazy that Steve was traveling around as a celebrity pastor. You ask good questions, but the dangers of hypocrisy are all about us. Lawson's "hiccup" has set the church back big time, but I it's hard to determine his state of salvation.
Not only that….but Lawsons “Hiccup” was an outright lie!!! A hiccup is considered…a one time failure or stumble! But had Lawson not been caught….this might of gone on…for the rest of his life! To have the audacity… to preach such things… as “If you’ve sinned sexually you’re not even a Christian!” you’re not saved….is unbelievable….especially when you are living habitually in that very same sin yourself…that you are so adamant about! In my estimation he has no conscience….of sin…no conviction in his heart… of doing wrong…of the harm to the cause of Christ…and to his very own wife and family! Living like this for 5 years! Which causes me to question…is he a true believer? I have my doubts!
@@angelmirmartinez9096 He needs to repent. That is how one remains in Christ. If we do not remain in Him, what happens according to John 15? The branch is broken off, thrown away, withers and eventually thrown into the fire.
Great teaching!!! Where is your pulpit Jk lol 😂 Cause there were great points made. People forget that no matter what “camp” or denomination you side/identify with, we ought to be CHRISTIANS FIRST. Pledging allegiance to our Lord, not our pastor. Some people know their pastor more than Jesus and it’s wrong. I was one of those people in the charismatic faith, so I can attest to this and needed to repent and renew my mind.. The word is the word. Pride comes before the fall and that applies to us all .. Great and small. Side note; I feel this way about Greg Locke. But I just have to watch and pray like we’re commanded.
I'm reform but don't mind you saying what's plain fact and biblical, personally sick of this celebrity image PASTOR stuff we all have to suffer! Apostates are those that for all appearances seemingly are genuine believers but ultimately turn out to be false by their actions, their faith did prove dead or nonexistent. We must be careful not to elevate man so highly is obvious, Paul deals with this in 1 Corinthians. I believe Steve Lawson does need to get saved and start at the beginning, if he truly has remorse over sin, which is what we all experience at genuine conversion! Hoping the people that those who promote these guys consider the effect this is having on most of the Church.
He is a hypocrite. But the bigger issue (in some ways) is the idea of us looking up to pastors who aren't even over us in OUR local church. These "conference Christianity" types (famous big name pastors) should NOT be put on pedestals, but that's what happens WAYYYY too much in the Reformed world. We need to humble ourselves and stop propping mere men up!!
Yea, I'd rather you "give us some men who live the truth they claim to know." Thank You for addressing this. I have observed the same things as you and you are just holding them up to the SAME standards THEY have build and hung others on. I'm just waiting for Justine Peters to say something, and he's awfully slow to speak on this one. While I respect him for calling out the WOF prosperity falsehoods that I also despise, and God saved me out of it also, But Peters silence or statement will say a lot about him on this one.
If you could preach and sin for five years and no repentance i tend to believe he was not saved in the beginning and could be a wolf in sheeps clothing.
🎯WHY WOULD THE YOUNG LADY’s father-- report an “emotional affair”? WHAT IS AN EMOTIONAL AFFAIR? I love you for 5 yrs, but no s-x? I’ll call you privately from the church- and this is not someone you’re having s-x with for 5 years?
🎯So, LAWSON DOES NOT REPENT FOR AN “emotional affair? So, he is just “best friends” w/ a 20 ish yr old? Why didn’t he introduce her to his wife, daughters, and sons bc she is just someone he really likes? Right!!!
@@josephbachota I'm looking for it, but I can't seem to find it. Not surprising, I imagine -- given that so much of Lawson's stuff is being taken down.
I do not believe for one minute this was an emotional affair! There’s no way a man lying to his wife and the church is having a nonchalant relationship with a 20 year old and he’s 67 +- HE was HIDING IT for 5 years!
I think people don't ponder enough about the thief on the cross who said, "Lord remember me when you come into thy kingdom." And jesus said, "This day you will be with me in paradise. " There was no doctrine involved. His faith that he was literally hanging beside the innocent Lamb and Son of God was enough.
I m positive that anyone extremely closely related to Lawson would have had questions in their mind…..I suspect his wife at some point had a question but did not want to ask the question to her husband……someone around Lawson was scratching their head wondering….🤔🤔🤔
So the father of the girl came forward and was angry because his daughter, his adult daughter mind you, was just talking to Steve and there was no physical contact? I have a hard time believing that! It's hard to believe that someone can be involved 5 years in an emotional lustful relationship and not go further, especially a married man who's married. Married men who fall in lust with other women do not carry on 5 yr relationships to just be friends with the young lady, I'm sorry but I know too much about human nature to believe that. I think they are saying this to do damage control. I could be wrong but this part of the story is just a tough pill for me to swallow.
LAWSON is a habitual liar and it astounds me to think that any reputable preacher - teacher would believe a chronic liar when Lawson calls his relationship an “emotional affair”.
Gods spirit is exposing every false deceitful short and long term religious teachers preachers self appointed prophets apostles evangelists etc hallelujah thank you Jesus clean out your church God in Christ
As was discussed, Lawson is 73, his "friend" is just 25....25!!!! Are you kidding me? Where is this man's decency? I totally disagree with his version of Calvinism, or any other form, for that matter. I stay totally with what scripture says, and found Calvinism false. There is plenty to refute! He said that the reason Calvinism is rejected is because of the lack of Biblical knowledge. Sorry, Stephen, but your arrogance has gotten you fired and your life is almost in total ruins. Don't ever preach again, because you are an ideologue.
I have to admit that I've listened amd learned much from Steve Lawson, but I originally got a bad impression but his ministry seemed so on point. But I admit i had a bad feeling I never could shake. And i would just push it away thinking I was siilly and being judgemental but that had to be the Holy Ghost tugging on me letting me know something was off.
You mean an accountability process. Every pastor should NEVER travel alone. That helps prevent to an extent. But the Body of Christ cant be the Gestapo.
Young lady needs her bills paid: apartment, car, food- why else would a young 20 year old begin an affair with a late, old 68 year old grandpa? Her father KNEW this was NOT the right kind of relationship!
GOD is HOLY and SACRED! Why don't these people Not Fear and Reverence GOD! The Word says, they will be Judged Deeply. I have Never heard of Steve Lawson! GOD Always REVEAL the TRUTH!❤❤❤!
I would argue that God duped them, since according to their theology, God orchestrated everything down to the last molecule. Clearly, God wanted Steve to have this relationship. Who can resist his will?
As an atheist I have no dog in theological disputes. Once saved always saved, whether it’s salvation by selection, or salvation by grace alone or grace plus works, are moot points. However, my interest in theism stems from the fact that many Christians vote as a bloc and directly and indirectly through laws passed through political parties, have an impact on the life of unbelievers. When you are hypocritical and don’t live the life you wish to impose on others, you have to expect to be called out for your duplicity.
It easy for the reformed folks to think Lawson was “sound”. He memorized the mindless script, mixed it perfectly with holier than thou undertones, and finished it off with a general lack of mercy. That’s their formula. So anyone who plays their game could easily be called sound, because there is no transformative power in their theology. Totally agree with your points, especially about 10-15 minute marks. Thanks Joe!
The underlying spirit of self righteous pride…perfectionism…and condemnation…never bear godly fruit! Truth..coupled with humility and meekness…are signs of true spirituality! Humility and meekness…are evidence of a true work of Christ in the heart…knowing one’s utter lostness and brokenness over sin…and profound thankfulness and gratefulness for one’s salvation…and a love for the person of Christ! If this is missing from the life of a professed believer…then is there a real work of grace in the heart?
What did you not like about him? I'm curious just because despite leaning more Anglo Catholic I did appreciate some sermons of Lawson's and he seemed quite likeable to me. So I'm wondering what cracks you saw that I was blinded to...
I've heard the Reforned preachers say that all charismatic pentecostal churches are not all "strange fire" churches. Ive heard John Piper, MacArthur, Bauchum, Peters and others say not all these churches are this way and there are genuine christians in those churches ... I'm not necessarily reformed but I get fed more meat from them than other pastors. I see the overall problem is that these paid speakers who have local churches aren't there to shepherd their churches. I think this system of the "Big" churches and traveling pastors should either do one or the other.
Read 1 Corinthians 12 : 4 -11. God has given and continues to give all of the gifts listed in this passage to His church for the edification of His body. Calvinistic prophets can not rightly divide the Word of God because they don't believe the Word of God and their groupies trust their judgment, blindly. They are proof texters. They distort, misrepresent, and misinterpret the Scriptures. They preach another Jesus and a different gospel under the inspiration of a devious spirit! " The LORD has put a lying spirit in all these prophets of yours. The LORD has decreed disaster on you." 1 Kings 22:23 Those of you who have been deceived, who proudly call yourselves by another name : turn to the true and living God who shed His blood for ALL...
Jesus would it say do what Lawson say and preach because is a good teaching and preachilng, but do not what he does, he will be judge by the Lord, who knows if he is save or not
To your question about how to hold the pastors accounatble: The Reformed Bros insist that the ONLY correct church governance model is a plurality of elders, and if you're not doing that you're doing it all wrong. But what I have argued before and will continue to argue is that many times the plurality of elders is funtionally the same as having a Moses model. What you see in a lot of the plurality of elder churches is that the pastor still runs things, because the elders are subject to be yes men to the lead pastor. Grace Community Church is run by John MacArthur...period. Trinity was run by Lawson...period. Holding people accountable is about having a loving personal relationship with the person and actually sitting down with them and talking to them. My church has more of a Moses model, but our ministers hold each other accountable because we KNOW each other and can see when something isn't quite right. So we ask, we talk, and if needed we correct. That's how it works with us, and when I say ministers I am including our pastor as well.
As a “reformed person” YOU SHOULD KNOW THAT THE CALVINITE GOD PLANNED THIS BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD!! Don’t be a hypocrite! You KNOW THATS WHAT CALVINISM TEACHES!!! Read your Westminster Confession!!! “ WHATEVER COMES TO PASS”!!!!!!!
If you look upon a woman with lust you're committing adultery. Having said that, may his & EVERY doctrine be DAMNED and let the Gospel of Christ Jesus be revealed to Steve
Yes, to your first question. No to your 2nd question. I am Reformed. Doctrine doesn't save anyone. So he's guilty no different the Joel. The 2nd part to your question I would say no. Because their a lot of people who preach the truth and don't believe it. And I agree he's not better.
Shogun; 1 Timothy 4; 16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both SAVE thyself, and them that hear thee. Looks like correct doctrine is very important in this scripture.
Steve Lawson, more than anyone else in the many years that I have been born again, has influenced my theology and Christian life. His series on the attributes of God exposed how I had “squeezed” God into God is love, which He is, and shortsighted myself to His other attributes, such as wrath, justice, judgment, and vengeance. His teaching on the Trinitarian Jesus, the resurrected Jesus, showed how I had also locked Him into the Godman Jesus of the gospels, ignoring the resurrected Jesus who threatened churches in Revelation with serious consequences if they didn’t repent. It showed me that the Trinitarian Jesus, God the Son, is demanding when it comes to sin in the church - and in my life. Stop sinning! Steve’s teachings unmasked the sentimentalist Jesus I had grown accustomed to who is soft on sin, the Jesus of most of the American church and in my life: not the “real” Jesus. God used Steve to instill in me that Jesus “demands” me to live a holy life. I believe when saved you are saved forever. But Jesus is also my Judge, and of all born-again believers. He died so He will see the agony of His soul and be satisfied (Isaiah 53: 11); all born-again believers are the agony of His soul. And I want Him to be fully satisfied with me because I took sin seriously beyond new birth to live a holy life. God used Steve Lawson to teach me it and to move forward to where I am today - and the knowledge of the Word to keep moving forward until I reach heaven. Never once did I think of him as a celebrity preacher, nor on a pedestal - only as a man who rightly divided the Word of God. Be careful how you denigrate his work. And him. You could be guilty of sin right along with Steve.
We did not get duped. I am a former ordained Pentecostal. I am a Reformed believer now. The only thing I can say, that people have been taught over the years to not put their trust in man, be they R.C. Sproul, John MacArthur, or Steve Lawson. The need for grace is needed for all people. All of us can be deceived. The problem with people is that discernment is wanting for many believers and believers are too trusting to begin with. This is a moral and ethical failure. There needs to be a way to monitory and and evaluate the progression of the life and conduct of a minister. Accountability is the challenge. Steve Lawson when he went to this last church back in 2018, he went to be the lead preacher, NOT pastor. He did not have that much success as a "pastor" in other churches where he led. He just wanted to preach. If the local church does not hold a personal accountable, then it is on that church and the church elders. The whole accountability mechanism cannot be forced on someone. In my positions I had yearly reviews of my year in ministry where I had to self evaluate and discuss it with another brother. But all denominations have this issue. Pride comes before a fall. It was all evident for a while and now the hens have come home to roost. I feel badly for his family, especially his wife and adult children. What I equally feel badly about is the heavy investment by his church for the building and ministry and that many who attended the church, came because it was pastored by Steve Lawson. Now that he is gone, are they all going to leave? There are plenty of other churches in the Dallas area. This will be telling.
Galatians 1; 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. The root of the problem is that Calvinism is another gospel and another Jesus and is sadly the doctrines of the man Calvin, a lawyer and with a degree in philosophy, who used his doctrines to gain political power in Geneva.
Pastors need pastors. They should be iron sharpening iron. I think it is bad to be traveling alone let alone without your wife. Spiritual warfare is a thing. The enemy knows how to exploit the flesh.
I agree with you 💯 %……it’s going to be interesting what the Calvin camp is going to finally speak on this matter… Or wait till the scandal blows over and say nothing…..
Will he accept the Elders plan to get right with God and his wife? Or coveniently leave the church to be able to maintain his wicked ways. Men get crazy when in love and they do not give up a woman. So we'll see...he'll be on everyone's radar.
Lawson is not special, this can happen to any pastor doesn't matter what theological hobby horse they ride. From what I can tell, sadly, Steve is now proven to be a hypocrite, a liar and completely disqualified from ministry. To suggest this has anything to do with his theology is disingenuous at best, this is a teaching moment not an 'I told you so' moment. I will pray for Steve and especially his family, it must be most devastating for them to go through this. Be humble.
I'm reformed and all my sources are angry about this and said we can't be hypocrites and sweep it under the rug. Everyone agrees he and his sermons, and materials should be avoided!
I know for me, I'm not trying to sweep it under the rug as far as forgetting about it or ignoring it, I want it to help us have conversations so we can grow, hopefully, that will happen
Brother, I would encourage you to read Victor's comment, in response to what you're asking. It addresses some of the conflations you're making in your presentation. Steve Lawson taught sound doctrine, not heresy. That said, some would argue that he wrongly emphasized repentance and submission to the Lordship of Christ, when discussing salvation, and that's not without merit. But there was a season when I was doing that in my ministry, as well. Our theology is always improving, including our presentation of the gospel. That to me is a good sign that the Spirit is continuing to tutor and shape us as minsters of the gospel. By contrast, men who flat out preach a gospel of self-esteem or syncretism, instead of turning to Christ alone, are false teachers or wolves. They are leading you to Hell. If Steve Lawson never got caught and lived his whole life in sin, that wouldn't change the fact that the man knew the truth and taught it, well. Those who followed what he preached were no doubt blessed for doing so, and that will remain the case with Steve's body of work. The word always does its work in us, even out of the mouths of hypocrites.
@@heartofalegend I don’t disagree the word works, period! Agreed 👍🏻 but that was not the question I was asking. The word he taught was good and will always work, but sin, whatever it was, we still don’t know the full truth, made him a hypocrite and in need of repentance, that’s where I was going, thanks 😃
This really is apples and oranges, and it surprises me that you can't see it. There is a difference between setting out to deceive people (Joel osteen), and struggling with secret sin, David had to be rebuked by Nathan after about a year. Whether steve will repent or not remains to be seen, but he hasn't been a 'wolf' in the scriptural sense.
@@johnygoodwin3441 my comment of wolf was based upon the reformed camp’s definition of wolf: habitual, continuous, unrepentant sin. They classify that as a wolf so that’s why I’m asking them now, based upon their own definition, how are they classifying Steve now? That’s my point, and it’s a question based upon their standards, thanks
I think she was a paid professional. Since they lived in different states, their antics had to have been over the phone. That remark about "no romantic overtones..." is hilarious. It was just doing the nasty by phone.
*multiple sources.....name them. *It was romantic....Did the girl and Lawson confess this, or is this assumption, and accusation? Define "romantic"? *Who were Mohlers sources?
@@Lambdamale. they confessed it only after the woman’s father was going to expose him. And it wasn’t Mohler saying it, it came from Phil Johnson’s tweets and other articles. Mohler just said he didn’t see this coming, romantic? No idea, we need more details, thanks
@josephbachota They did confess after the girls father came forward. But what exactly did they confess to? Were they perhaps enjoying each other's company a tad too much? Did this young girl develop a crush and then get mad and run to her father when she was rejected? Did Lawson send her lude photos? Did he promise to whisk her off into the sunset? We simply don't have enough detail. Inappropriate relationships are very easy to develop, but this doesn't necessarily entail going as far as being romantic.
Steve Lawson's preachings are the same as John MacArthur, so they all have only Unclean Spirit inherited from your respective parents, however Steve has become an evidence for all the believers, all of them haven't received the Holy Spirit, simply these guys didn't sin like Steven but no difference. This is a wake up for believers to realise their Spirit which they believed is the Holy Spirit all these days.
Lawson... Lied Hid the affair For 5 yrs!!! But it's an emotional affair; an "inappropriate relationship"... so let's not be too hard on poor Calvinist Steve!
Pastors, teachers, leaders of all sides are prone to sin .It is so much more glaring when a Calvinist sins like Lawson did. The reason being is that they are so condescending. I know, I was a Reformed, Orthodox Presbyterian, Calvinist for 57 years. We all idolized different past and current pillars in the faith. From Calvin, Knox, and Machen, to Sproul, McArthur, Bauchman, & Washer. We all quoted or used their sayings in our sermons, theology, and doctrinal conversations. I suspect that Reformed Baptists, and PCA folk had their own mini circle of idols like we OPCers did. Heck, I loved Piper's books, I listened to Begg for years. B.B. Warfield, Ferguson, Ryken, Horton, Beeke, & Boice were all great influences. The problem began with these Reformed Conferences the various camps started. Many of these men stopped being preachers/shepherds and became Reformed Rock Stars. White, Lawson, Washer, McArthur, and to some extent Sproul began to believe and relish this status. There is something fundamentally wrong with a doctrine and by extension a local church that allows something like Lawson's sin go on for five plus years. When Pastors are away from their churches at 2-4 day conferences as much as 3-4 times per year, there is no real accountability. "Things" begin to be neglected, wife, children, grandchildren, flock, God, etc. The elders of Lawson's church should have seen something, there is no way that Lawson could not have shown something to indicate what he was involved in. Calvinism has done more harm to the Church than anything else besides Roman Catholicism. The reason I grieve for Lawson and his ilk, is because he has a form of godliness but denies it's power. 2 Tim. 3:1-9 sums up this current situation. Lawson regularly was a boaster, proud, unloving, unforgiving, a slanderer, obviously did not have self-control, was head-strong, and obviously a lover of pleasure. Unfortunately, Calvinist's resist the truth, 2 Tim 3:8, thus are disapproved concerning the faith. Verse 9 tells us that these men will progress no further, for their folly will be manifest to all, as theirs also was (Jannes & Jambres). I have watched countless videos of Reformed men and women commenting on Lawson. None of them have used Scripture to rebuke Lawson. They all have used the Scriptures to restore him. Yes, he can be forgiven and hopefully he will repent. That is important to his future. What is important to the Church, the Bride of Christ is to debunk this spurious doctrine that has plagued it for 1400 years. I implore people to get rid of your Westminster Standards, and Calvin's Institutes of the Christian Religion (I've read them all) and read, study, and pray the Scriptures
When I left the WOF Prosperity movement, I was naturally running far to the reformed community, and I immediately noticed that I ran into some of the SAME issues. human worship, Pride, superiority complex, mean spiritless, a lot of the same things I was running away from except it looked a little different. I also noticed that Steve would say things and get away with it, but if a charismatic did or said those things, the reformed community would blow the alarm everywhere. I have commented on people's videos about some of Steve's red flags a couple times in the past 1 year. And there is a willful ignorance going on there, similar to what I saw and how I behave when in the WOF. We need to be objective and acknowledge our biases and blind spots and extend grace equally. I don't know if anyone shocks me anymore. I was only surprised at the 5 years, but not surprised that he or anyone could deceive. heck, I'm dealing with my own relatives who are church leaders still in WOF. and when you struggle to understand the motives of close relatives, your expectations are not too high with anyone else you don't know personally. But you are soo spot on.
@@NotEasyButSimple agreed with everything you said 👍🏻💯
Well said! I was Reformed, Presbyterian Calvinist for 57 years.
Great comment. I have also noticed the double standard.
I went to John MacArthur's school, TMU (college back then), and know many of the players in that ecosystem. It took me 20 years but I began to see exactly what you're talking about.
@@b3rger825 thank you so very much for that insight and inside information, blessings and thank you 😊
You are 💯 right about Reformed standards for what a believer is, Steve Lawson by his own standards would state that Steve Lawson is not a True believer
Typically, an emotional affair is a friendship that lacks appropriate boundaries for those in committed relationships or marriages. Statistically, half of these “friendships” turn into full-blown, physical affairs. “Almost all research tells us that affairs happen when friendships occur to meet an unmet need in a marriage,” wrote Mike and Trisha Fox in a Crosswalk article. Scripture separates sexual immorality and adultery. “The Bible is very clear that adultery does NOT need to be sexual in nature,” Mike and Trisha Fox continued, “In fact, the sexual and physical act only proceeds what is already active adultery, unfaithfulness, and infidelity.” Matthew 5:28 warns, “But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.”
🎯🎯Clearly Lawson did not tell his wife and the church that he was going to “visit” the 20 year old! So, therefore he is a chronic, habitual liar, as far as we know, for at least 5 years.
I do not believe for one minute this was an emotional affair! There’s no way a man lying to his wife and the church is having a nonchalant relationship with a 20 year old and he’s late 60’s- BC he was HIDING IT.
What does Scripture say? It says you have to be a doer of the Word and not just a hearer. That applies to all not just a denomination.
You have nailed every point. Thank you for pointing out the hours and hours Lawson has spent demeaning other preachers. Lawson spouts righteousness and the sanctity of the pastor and promoting himself as a man of the highest spiritual honour and now we find this. And he still has not made a statement to all of his admirers!!!!
@@rrickarr agreed 👍🏻 💯 thanks so much 😃
🎯🎯Clearly Lawson did not tell his wife and the church that he was going to “visit” the 20 year old out of state. So, therefore he is a chronic, habitual liar, as far as we know, for at least 5 years.
@@orangepeel3465 I’d agree 👍🏻
I've heard Calvinists say that he had "doctrinal purity." I didn't even know that was a "thing." Also in the reformed camp maturity is measured by how much you know (head knowledge) and not by what you do. They also believe that "preaching the word of God" expositorially is what "transforms" people. People only remember 10% of what they hear so it is no wonder that I fail to see little personal transformation in those who are reformed. Steve Lawson: doctrinal purity but no purity of character.
Agreed about those who are reformed doing discernment ministries (yes, that is what they call them), they throw everyone under the bus. They need to be much more careful. By their standards because I believe that I have a relationship with God and that God answers my prayers, guides and directs me in decisions, etc....I'm a heretic. Good points all around!
I watched John MacArthur say Ravi Z, was never saved when his sin was exposed. I don’t see how the same standards don’t apply to Steve Lawson.
@@joeblacke99 hmmm, interesting point… thank you
Holiness with no grace and mercy sounds like the Pharisees and Sadducees. This is unfortunately one of the reasons many people are turned off from coming to Jesus Christ. Praying for the church as a whole. No matter how sound the doctrine is it's obvious sound doctrine is not enough to keep you.🙏🙏🙏🙏
@@youraveragewarden9774 agreed 👍🏻 💯
Lawson is a false teacher who is unrepentant and, therefore, should be treated as an unbeliever.
in the middle of watching this live, let me address this "we had no FORNACATION during this 5 year affaire". several points here: 1) NO woman in her 20's is going to be attracted to a man in his 70's..NEVER UNLESS MONEY is involved. point 2) they had no "fornacation"? they are playing word games!, MANY false preachers and false christians define fornacation/adulatry as ONLY "sexual intercourse", they dont consider sexual activity outside of intercourse "fornacatiion/adulatry", REMEMBER bill clintons "I did not have sex with that woman"?? thats what you have here!. 3) if you believe there was no sexual activity during this 5 year affaire I have some land to sell you in paraguy!. point 4) IF they had no kissing or sexual activity during this 5 year period then WHY is he confessing to anything becouse no sexual sin occurred? ( Im leaving out here Jesus saying if you LOOK at a woman lustfully you have committed adulatry). NEXT point!, the biggest lie I have ever fell for and most preachers fall for is the lie that as long as my theology is right my charator/actions dont matter!. THANKS for pointing that out brother!!.
@@jamesba-xd7xf thanks so much great points 😃
Absolutely agree. It is exactly what I have been saying!!!
To attempt to answer your question, What type of vetting is done once a Minister is ordained?
We must go back to the Early Church to determine their form of government.
What form of government did the earliest Christians have? Of course, early Christian polity is a vast and complex subject with many different issues in play. But, I want to focus in upon a narrow one: Were the earliest churches ruled by a plurality of elders or a single bishop?
Now it needs to be noted from the outset that by the end of the second century, most churches were ruled by a single bishop. For whatever set of reasons, monepiscopacy had won the day. Many scholars attribute this development to Ignatius.
But, what about earlier? Was there a single-bishop structure in the first and early second century?
The New Testament evidence itself seems to favor a plurality of elders as the standard model. The book of Acts tells us that as the apostles planted churches, they appointed “elders” (from the Greek term πρεσβυτέρος) to oversee them (Acts 11:30; 14:23; 15:2; 20:17). Likewise, Titus is told to “appoint elders in every town” (Titus 1:5).
A very similar word, ἐπι,σκoπος (“bishop” or “overseer”), is used in other contexts to describe what appears to be the same ruling office (Phil 1:1; 1 Tim 3:1-7). The overlap between these two terms is evident in Acts 20:28 when Paul, while addressing the Ephesian “elders” (πρεσβυτέρους), declares that “The Holy Spirit has made you overseers (ἐπισκόπους).” Thus, the New Testament writings indicate that the office of elder/bishop is functionally one and the same.
Therefore, to answer your question, there has to be a qualified selected group of elders/bishops who hold all clergy (and themselves) accountable based upon biblical standards.
True godly ministers should have no problem having their text messages, phone calls, Facebook, twitter, etc. open for an ecclesiastical audit at all times by the elders. However, it is easy to buy a secondary phone where no one would know and create another Facebook account under another name, etc. So, trying to manage and oversee this would be nearly impossible.
@@Rev.VictorAlexandor agreed 👍🏻 💯 unfortunately though in some of these camps, are more like the mafia so the elders are just hit men for the pastor, so they’re corrupt to, it’s sad all the way around 🥲
@@josephbachota yes sir that is true.
You have heard it said "thou shall not commit adultery." But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
Steve Lawson, how is that works salvation working out not???
I would say: his working out his own salvation, is not working! Pharisees to the core!
When did Lawson ever promote works salvation? Not defending the guy’s actions, but what he preached wasn’t that.
One person can ruin a lot of peoples lives! I feel for his wife. She will suffer from this more than anyone!
Excellent points made in the chat. My dad actually caught one of our former pastors engaged in sexual activity with the then secretary in the pastors office. My dad worked as the custodian during that time and being from the "silent generation" he didn't report it. That pastor did leave the church, but the damage had been done.
@@darleneanderson109 sadly Darlene these stories are all too common
How many of those in the body of Christ have and are being deceived by SO MANY in the ministry "fall" and are dismissed from their churches due to sexual sins? WHEN will this all end?
@@pamelaperkins2507 great question hmmm 🤔
Waiting for Justin Peters and Steven Kozar to make a video statement. Their silence is a little too loud...
Kozar is very busy. He dropped a few videos lately
@NotEasyButSimple Peters at least has made it very clear that Lawson's materials should not even be used any longer. I'll give him credit for that.
@akadwriter Yes, I stand corrected. I'm not on X and not always up with what goes on there. Saw something about that later. Thanks
@NotEasyButSimple You're good. Brother, I agree that the Reformed camp is hypocritical way too often...and cowardly.
The fact that few have called out Doug Wilson and all that garbage he spews is bad enough. God will clean house, and HIS sword never misses.
🎯I do not believe for one minute this was an emotional affair! There’s no way a man lying to his wife and the church is having a nonchalant relationship with a 20 year old and he’s late 60’s- BC he was HIDING IT.
@@orangepeel3465 that seems to be Phil Johnson’s take as well and maybe the elders of Trinity Bible church
Clearly- they are covering their eyes.
Great program. Thank you.
LAWSON is a habitual liar.
To answer your first question, I would say: The preacher with the sound doctrine but who sins is a Hypocrite, but he is not a wolf. He is simply a hypocrite. On the other hand, a false teacher who teaches heresy is a wolf in sheep's clothing, an angel of light. Thus, in this context, I would say that the Wolf is more dangerous to the Body of Christ than the "Sinning preacher" is. The hypocrite has simply allowed his flesh to dominate him while the wolf has allowed demons to dominate him, hence, he teaches "doctrines of demons."
You have the definitive comment.
Maybe though.. check the doctrine.. because beliefs always reap actions at some point
You have summed that up perfectly IMO and something I have also been thinking on. I started realizing these exacts points. 💯
*I'd like to add this comment should be pinned* 😊
Please pin this comment!
@@Scaperoot79 💯
You can’t be someone else’s conscience. God will find them out
Even when he was exposed, he went and laid down his legalist hammer on everyone in that final sermon. Saying if you’re a true believer in Christ, you repent of all your sins.
@@destroyingtheworksofthedev9349 heard about that and saw some of that
I spent 15 years in pentecostal/charasmatic churches circles. In 2001 the Lord in his mercy and grace through listening to teachers with sound doctrine and discernment opened my eyes to the error and deception.
I also had been in contact qith calvinism in my christian walk but I never knew that was what it was till I heard Dave Hunt preaching on it. Wow, that gave me understanding to know why they were like they were.
As far as I am concerned the pentecostal/ charasmatic and Calvinism are extremes to be avoided.
I read Charles Spurgeon who has been a vlessing to me, and I know he said that Calvinism is rhe gospel, but loke so many he was not a consistent calvinist. They believe it in there heads but how does it work in reality.
@@johnsteele870 completely agree 👍🏻 💯 I made a similar video saying both camps of the pentecostal and reformed camps are in trouble, so we are on the same frequency lol 😂 i came out of the prosperity gospel camp myself, thank God for His goodness!
@@josephbachota thanks for your reply Joseph, you ask a lot of good questions.
I will take a look at the video you mentioned.
May the Lord give us discerning and humble spirits in these perilous times.
God bless
@@johnsteele870 yes thank you 😊 that video is in the description of this video I think, thank you again
“Emotional Affair” for FIVE YEARS? That in itself is almost an impossibility.
Not a sexual affair? Like Bill Clinton and Monika?
Nailed it!
I watched I think majority of videos on this but not in entirety due to disgusting idolatry.. but this video ia by far the best. It made me rethink a lot
There is a big difference between discerning what your pastor is preaching every Sunday from the pulpit and what your pastor is doing at 1am in a hotel.
@@chrisdotson3520 true 👍🏻💯
I agree mostly with your take and the need to call out the reformed camp. However, when it comes to discernment, we are responsible for spotting failures in orthodoxy but not so much for failure in orthopraxy, especially if the sins are done in secret. The doctrines are taught and documented in public, the sins are done in secret. I cannot get on people for not knowing what was done in secret (unless there were clear signs). However, not notifying unsound doctrine is without excuse. It is God’s job and work to bring the secret sims to light, it is our job to rebuke unsound teachings, as these are already in the light. I will not condemn anyone for not knowing that Zacharias or Lawson were secret hypocrites. We are not omniscient nor expected to be.
@@alainm6070 I agree with you but with one caveat, like I said, in the case of Lawson, there was clear case of pride, and arrogance so he at least should have been talked to about that, however, he probably wasn’t because some others in those camps are just as prideful so why would they? They reek of it to! But the adultery stuff, I agree . However Al Mohler said there were signs like Steve was always alone on trips, ok, did anyone say anything? I still have questions, thanks 😃
@josephbachota Pride is a huge issue in the Reformed camp...and yes that needs to be repented of by those engaging in it!
That being said, God is going to humble ALL of us, one way or another. Jesus is our ONLY hope. Period.
@@josephbachotaI absolutely agree with you. Pride is a clear sign and traveling all the time should be an obvious sign, as well.
@@akadwriter The Reformed camp is pretty broad. Where I come from globally, I’ve never met more humble and kind people who hold to Reformed theology. I’ve seen the negative side of many denominations within orthodoxy, but I wouldn’t make a claim like that based on a few groups of people.
But I agree with you last point!
@Dan-ch8kv I agree that it's not everyone. I grew up in that camp and attend a RB church now. And lots of great people are reformed that I know even now as good friends.
I didn't say it's everyone. But it's an issue that doesn't get addressed here in America. I think it's because correct theology attracts people who want to be right.
That's my opinion at least.
Excellent video in explaining the likely mindset of many.
As an aside, I would love for you to do a teaching video about Lordship Salvation versus Free Grace. This might be helpful to explain the differences / nuances between Calvinist and Reformers. Apologies if you’ve done a video about this previously.
@@richardluke2517 thanks Richard, and no I haven’t done a video on that, thanks 😊
As a reformed charismatic guy I’d simply say this happens in all denominational branches. I’m thinking of Bickle duping so many for decades. So I don’t think it is a theological distinctive issue as much as it is an ethical and lifestyle issue. What lead to this for Lawson? I’m guessing it was the long and frequent trips away from his wife. This lead to temptations.
The warning is that we as men must cling/hold fast to our wives and be consistently in connection with her as we are called to be consistently connecting with our King.
That said it might be harder in a Macarther like environment to confess sin to one another to let the Gospel do its healing work. But many pastors across denominations don’t have people in their lives whom they can easily do that with.
@@Dan-ch8kv I agree Dan this happens in all denominational lines, no argument there. I was coming from the questions of: how are some in the reformed camp going to deal with this and how will they view Lawson based upon their theology? You said it yourself, it’s hard to confess sin in the MacArthur camp, hence my video, so I agree 👍🏻💯 thanks 😊
@@josephbachota Appreciate the reply! I was speaking more to the number of comments here that are zeroing in on a specific tradition with an AHA! attitude.
But I’d say it really depends. If he’s unrepentant and was a wolf all this time, he was never really saved. He preached truth in many cases (though I disagree with a number of things he’s said over the years), but as you said, preaching and life need to go hand in hand. The Ravi example is a case in point. I got my MA in Apologetics partly because of guys like him, and I’m a church planter in a primarily atheistic context today, so it hits hard.
@@Dan-ch8kv yeah I hear ya, agree 👍🏻
I'm in the Reformed camp, and I saw quite a few signs that Lawson was off track. It was really up to the Elders at Trinity to protect the church, and they failed big time. It was crazy that Steve was traveling around as a celebrity pastor. You ask good questions, but the dangers of hypocrisy are all about us. Lawson's "hiccup" has set the church back big time, but I it's hard to determine his state of salvation.
Not only that….but Lawsons “Hiccup” was an outright lie!!! A hiccup is considered…a one time failure or stumble! But had Lawson not been caught….this might of gone on…for the rest of his life! To have the audacity… to preach such things… as “If you’ve sinned sexually you’re not even a Christian!” you’re not saved….is unbelievable….especially when you are living habitually in that very same sin yourself…that you are so adamant about! In my estimation he has no conscience….of sin…no conviction in his heart… of doing wrong…of the harm to the cause of Christ…and to his very own wife and family! Living like this for 5 years! Which causes me to question…is he a true believer? I have my doubts!
Hopefully the “ reformed camp “ will have a come to Jesus time, and reject their christ of Calvinism.
This is the question that many are asking now... What is the state of his salvation?
@@angelmirmartinez9096 He needs to repent. That is how one remains in Christ. If we do not remain in Him, what happens according to John 15? The branch is broken off, thrown away, withers and eventually thrown into the fire.
Excelent and more than valid question! I want the answer
@@aleguitarra thank you 😊
Great teaching!!! Where is your pulpit Jk lol 😂
Cause there were great points made. People forget that no matter what “camp” or denomination you side/identify with, we ought to be CHRISTIANS FIRST. Pledging allegiance to our Lord, not our pastor. Some people know their pastor more than Jesus and it’s wrong. I was one of those people in the charismatic faith, so I can attest to this and needed to repent and renew my mind.. The word is the word. Pride comes before the fall and that applies to us all .. Great and small.
Side note; I feel this way about Greg Locke. But I just have to watch and pray like we’re commanded.
Correct about Greg Locke, he’s a hot mess, I’ve done some stuff on him
You correct about Lawsons cockyness. AND pride. I SW it a year ago. I asked myself he dont show fruit. And Im reformed.
@@tommywitte9916 amen glad you saw it Tommy. It was bad for sure 👍🏻
I'm reform but don't mind you saying what's plain fact and biblical, personally sick of this celebrity image PASTOR stuff we all have to suffer!
Apostates are those that for all appearances seemingly are genuine believers but ultimately turn out to be false by their actions, their faith did prove dead or nonexistent. We must be careful not to elevate man so highly is obvious, Paul deals with this in 1 Corinthians. I believe Steve Lawson does need to get saved and start at the beginning, if he truly has remorse over sin, which is what we all experience at genuine conversion!
Hoping the people that those who promote these guys consider the effect this is having on most of the Church.
Thank you so much for saying this, it blessed me 😃
He is a hypocrite. But the bigger issue (in some ways) is the idea of us looking up to pastors who aren't even over us in OUR local church.
These "conference Christianity" types (famous big name pastors) should NOT be put on pedestals, but that's what happens WAYYYY too much in the Reformed world.
We need to humble ourselves and stop propping mere men up!!
Well said!!
@@brianholden8067 thanks Brian
Yea, I'd rather you "give us some men who live the truth they claim to know." Thank You for addressing this. I have observed the same things as you and you are just holding them up to the SAME standards THEY have build and hung others on. I'm just waiting for Justine Peters to say something, and he's awfully slow to speak on this one. While I respect him for calling out the WOF prosperity falsehoods that I also despise, and God saved me out of it also, But Peters silence or statement will say a lot about him on this one.
@@NotEasyButSimple I think he may have said something, I don’t know for sure but thank you for what you said 😃
If you could preach and sin for five years and no repentance i tend to believe he was not saved in the beginning and could be a wolf in sheeps clothing.
Rules for thee but not for me as they say.
@@Sheep0417_ apparently it seems that way
🎯WHY WOULD THE YOUNG LADY’s father-- report an “emotional affair”? WHAT IS AN EMOTIONAL AFFAIR? I love you for 5 yrs, but no s-x? I’ll call you privately from the church- and this is not someone you’re having s-x with for 5 years?
good comments here, thanks
🎯So, LAWSON DOES NOT REPENT FOR AN “emotional affair? So, he is just “best friends” w/ a 20 ish yr old? Why didn’t he introduce her to his wife, daughters, and sons bc she is just someone he really likes? Right!!!
Lawson also came after Tullian Tchividjian pretty hard--a couple of years before TT fell. That sound bite hasn't aged particularly well, either.
@@winsomepickett7694 do you have that? I don’t know if I’ve seen that, thanks 😊
@@josephbachota I'm looking for it, but I can't seem to find it. Not surprising, I imagine -- given that so much of Lawson's stuff is being taken down.
@@winsomepickett7694 probably that would make sense
I do not believe for one minute this was an emotional affair! There’s no way a man lying to his wife and the church is having a nonchalant relationship with a 20 year old and he’s 67 +- HE was HIDING IT for 5 years!
Excellent commentary
I think people don't ponder enough about the thief on the cross who said, "Lord remember me when you come into thy kingdom." And jesus said,
"This day you will be with me in paradise. "
There was no doctrine involved. His faith that he was literally hanging beside the innocent Lamb and Son of God was enough.
I m positive that anyone extremely closely related to Lawson would have had questions in their mind…..I suspect his wife at some point had a question but did not want to ask the question to her husband……someone around Lawson was scratching their head wondering….🤔🤔🤔
Just like the way, you are asking them the questions with the same questions they ask.... Just amazing 😊
So the father of the girl came forward and was angry because his daughter, his adult daughter mind you, was just talking to Steve and there was no physical contact? I have a hard time believing that! It's hard to believe that someone can be involved 5 years in an emotional lustful relationship and not go further, especially a married man who's married. Married men who fall in lust with other women do not carry on 5 yr relationships to just be friends with the young lady, I'm sorry but I know too much about human nature to believe that. I think they are saying this to do damage control. I could be wrong but this part of the story is just a tough pill for me to swallow.
LAWSON is a habitual liar and it astounds me to think that any reputable preacher - teacher would believe a chronic liar when Lawson calls his relationship an “emotional affair”.
yes yes and yes. 🎯
Gods spirit is exposing every false deceitful short and long term religious teachers preachers self appointed prophets apostles evangelists etc hallelujah thank you Jesus clean out your church God in Christ
"JUST AND 'EMOTIONAL AFFAIR' "...............STILL ADULTERY ACCORDING TO GOD'S WORD
Great video bro
God bless from Baguio city Philippines😊
Thanks so much all the way from the Philippines ❤️
No fornication???? Really????
As was discussed, Lawson is 73, his "friend" is just 25....25!!!! Are you kidding me? Where is this man's decency? I totally disagree with his version of Calvinism, or any other form, for that matter. I stay totally with what scripture says, and found Calvinism false. There is plenty to refute! He said that the reason Calvinism is rejected is because of the lack of Biblical knowledge. Sorry, Stephen, but your arrogance has gotten you fired and your life is almost in total ruins. Don't ever preach again, because you are an ideologue.
I have to admit that I've listened amd learned much from Steve Lawson, but I originally got a bad impression but his ministry seemed so on point. But I admit i had a bad feeling I never could shake. And i would just push it away thinking I was siilly and being judgemental but that had to be the Holy Ghost tugging on me letting me know something was off.
I also still think his ministry is on point and this puts a scar on the gown of the Bride of Christ
You mean an accountability process. Every pastor should NEVER travel alone. That helps prevent to an extent. But the Body of Christ cant be the Gestapo.
Young lady needs her bills paid: apartment, car, food- why else would a young 20 year old begin an affair with a late, old 68 year old grandpa? Her father KNEW this was NOT the right kind of relationship!
GOD is HOLY and SACRED! Why don't these people Not Fear and Reverence GOD! The Word says, they will be Judged Deeply. I have Never heard of Steve Lawson! GOD Always REVEAL the TRUTH!❤❤❤!
Great Job my brother 🙏🏼🙏🏼
@@alfredluna7016 thanks Alfred
Justin Peters has been uncharacteristically quiet on this one. Hmmmmmmmmmmm.......
No he hasn’t😂
@@TadJohnson Really?
@@ismedillard618yeah. He’s said that Lawson’s material should be discarded and no longer used
@@TadJohnson Forgive me, I haven't seen this on his channel.
@@ismedillard618it’s there. Go and have a look.
I would argue that God duped them, since according to their theology, God orchestrated everything down to the last molecule. Clearly, God wanted Steve to have this relationship. Who can resist his will?
As an atheist I have no dog in theological disputes. Once saved always saved, whether it’s salvation by selection, or salvation by grace alone or grace plus works, are moot points.
However, my interest in theism stems from the fact that many Christians vote as a bloc and directly and indirectly through laws passed through political parties, have an impact on the life of unbelievers.
When you are hypocritical and don’t live the life you wish to impose on others, you have to expect to be called out for your duplicity.
@@horridhenry9920 I actually agree with you on that 👍🏻
@@horridhenry9920 very well said actually 😃💯
Somehow I don't believe the non sexual part but no matter how one views this something ain't right.
@@jimscaggs2422 agreed 👍🏻
Hypocrit is not correct. The very statement of Christianity is we are all sinners in need of a savior. And that savior is Jesus Christ.
It easy for the reformed folks to think Lawson was “sound”. He memorized the mindless script, mixed it perfectly with holier than thou undertones, and finished it off with a general lack of mercy. That’s their formula.
So anyone who plays their game could easily be called sound, because there is no transformative power in their theology.
Totally agree with your points, especially about 10-15 minute marks.
Thanks Joe!
@@Stove2787 thanks so much
The underlying spirit of self righteous pride…perfectionism…and condemnation…never bear godly fruit! Truth..coupled with humility and meekness…are signs of true spirituality! Humility and meekness…are evidence of a true work of Christ in the heart…knowing one’s utter lostness and brokenness over sin…and profound thankfulness and gratefulness for one’s salvation…and a love for the person of Christ! If this is missing from the life of a professed believer…then is there a real work of grace in the heart?
A dissonant revolting sound was Steve’s message.
I have always had great discernment and I NEVER liked Lawson.
Just like Zaccharias 15:19
What did you not like about him? I'm curious just because despite leaning more Anglo Catholic I did appreciate some sermons of Lawson's and he seemed quite likeable to me. So I'm wondering what cracks you saw that I was blinded to...
@roryhand6650 for me it was his prideful arrogance on certain issues and how he belittled others who did not agree, huge red flag for me
I've heard the Reforned preachers say that all charismatic pentecostal churches are not all "strange fire" churches. Ive heard John Piper, MacArthur, Bauchum, Peters and others say not all these churches are this way and there are genuine christians in those churches ... I'm not necessarily reformed but I get fed more meat from them than other pastors. I see the overall problem is that these paid speakers who have local churches aren't there to shepherd their churches. I think this system of the "Big" churches and traveling pastors should either do one or the other.
And also the amount of money and the isolation of these pastors need to be pondered on .... and changed somehow
Read 1 Corinthians 12 : 4 -11.
God has given and continues to give all of the gifts listed in this passage to His church for the edification of His body. Calvinistic prophets can not rightly divide the Word of God because they don't believe the Word of God and their groupies trust their judgment, blindly. They are proof texters. They distort, misrepresent, and misinterpret the Scriptures. They preach another Jesus and a different gospel under the inspiration of a devious spirit!
" The LORD has put a lying spirit in all these prophets of yours. The LORD has decreed disaster on you."
1 Kings 22:23
Those of you who have been deceived, who proudly call yourselves by another name : turn to the true and living God who shed His blood for ALL...
Jesus would it say do what Lawson say and preach because is a good teaching and preachilng, but do not what he does, he will be judge by the Lord, who knows if he is save or not
I’m do not like a screaming preacher: Aka LAWSON!
You are right brother.
To your question about how to hold the pastors accounatble: The Reformed Bros insist that the ONLY correct church governance model is a plurality of elders, and if you're not doing that you're doing it all wrong. But what I have argued before and will continue to argue is that many times the plurality of elders is funtionally the same as having a Moses model. What you see in a lot of the plurality of elder churches is that the pastor still runs things, because the elders are subject to be yes men to the lead pastor. Grace Community Church is run by John MacArthur...period. Trinity was run by Lawson...period. Holding people accountable is about having a loving personal relationship with the person and actually sitting down with them and talking to them. My church has more of a Moses model, but our ministers hold each other accountable because we KNOW each other and can see when something isn't quite right. So we ask, we talk, and if needed we correct. That's how it works with us, and when I say ministers I am including our pastor as well.
A saved person can’t lose salvation simply because no sin can be imputed to him/her.
Rom 4:8
IM a reformed person. Steve's sin is worse becouse he's sinning against sound doctrine. And practicing it.
Alot of people were shocked Steve committed this sin. I wasn't, he put Jmac on a pedistool.
@@tommywitte9916 completely agree 👍🏻 💯
As a “reformed person” YOU SHOULD KNOW THAT THE CALVINITE GOD PLANNED THIS BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD!! Don’t be a hypocrite! You KNOW THATS WHAT CALVINISM TEACHES!!! Read your Westminster Confession!!! “ WHATEVER COMES TO PASS”!!!!!!!
@@tommywitte9916 but how does putting JM on a pedestal lead to this adultery? And BTW what has JM said about it?
If you look upon a woman with lust you're committing adultery. Having said that, may his & EVERY doctrine be DAMNED and let the Gospel of Christ Jesus be revealed to Steve
Great video, great questions. Those Calvinist theologians will probably say he’s a sheep in wolf clothes.😢
we will see for sure, I think there is more to follow...
Yes, to your first question. No to your 2nd question. I am Reformed. Doctrine doesn't save anyone. So he's guilty no different the Joel. The 2nd part to your question I would say no. Because their a lot of people who preach the truth and don't believe it. And I agree he's not better.
thank you for that insight from the reformed side, I appreciate that
Shogun; 1 Timothy 4; 16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both SAVE thyself, and them that hear thee.
Looks like correct doctrine is very important in this scripture.
Steve Lawson, more than anyone else in the many years that I have been born again, has influenced my theology and Christian life. His series on the attributes of God exposed how I had “squeezed” God into God is love, which He is, and shortsighted myself to His other attributes, such as wrath, justice, judgment, and vengeance. His teaching on the Trinitarian Jesus, the resurrected Jesus, showed how I had also locked Him into the Godman Jesus of the gospels, ignoring the resurrected Jesus who threatened churches in Revelation with serious consequences if they didn’t repent. It showed me that the Trinitarian Jesus, God the Son, is demanding when it comes to sin in the church - and in my life. Stop sinning! Steve’s teachings unmasked the sentimentalist Jesus I had grown accustomed to who is soft on sin, the Jesus of most of the American church and in my life: not the “real” Jesus. God used Steve to instill in me that Jesus “demands” me to live a holy life. I believe when saved you are saved forever. But Jesus is also my Judge, and of all born-again believers. He died so He will see the agony of His soul and be satisfied (Isaiah 53: 11); all born-again believers are the agony of His soul. And I want Him to be fully satisfied with me because I took sin seriously beyond new birth to live a holy life. God used Steve Lawson to teach me it and to move forward to where I am today - and the knowledge of the Word to keep moving forward until I reach heaven. Never once did I think of him as a celebrity preacher, nor on a pedestal - only as a man who rightly divided the Word of God. Be careful how you denigrate his work. And him. You could be guilty of sin right along with Steve.
We did not get duped. I am a former ordained Pentecostal. I am a Reformed believer now. The only thing I can say, that people have been taught over the years to not put their trust in man, be they R.C. Sproul, John MacArthur, or Steve Lawson. The need for grace is needed for all people. All of us can be deceived. The problem with people is that discernment is wanting for many believers and believers are too trusting to begin with. This is a moral and ethical failure. There needs to be a way to monitory and and evaluate the progression of the life and conduct of a minister. Accountability is the challenge. Steve Lawson when he went to this last church back in 2018, he went to be the lead preacher, NOT pastor. He did not have that much success as a "pastor" in other churches where he led. He just wanted to preach. If the local church does not hold a personal accountable, then it is on that church and the church elders. The whole accountability mechanism cannot be forced on someone. In my positions I had yearly reviews of my year in ministry where I had to self evaluate and discuss it with another brother. But all denominations have this issue. Pride comes before a fall. It was all evident for a while and now the hens have come home to roost. I feel badly for his family, especially his wife and adult children. What I equally feel badly about is the heavy investment by his church for the building and ministry and that many who attended the church, came because it was pastored by Steve Lawson. Now that he is gone, are they all going to leave? There are plenty of other churches in the Dallas area. This will be telling.
Well it wasn't pastored by him, only preachered by him, so not really their loss. There's no such thing as a preacherate.
Galatians 1; 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
The root of the problem is that Calvinism is another gospel and another Jesus and is sadly the doctrines of the man Calvin, a lawyer and with a degree in philosophy, who used his doctrines to gain political power in Geneva.
Pastors need pastors. They should be iron sharpening iron. I think it is bad to be traveling alone let alone without your wife. Spiritual warfare is a thing. The enemy knows how to exploit the flesh.
I agree with you 💯 %……it’s going to be interesting what the Calvin camp is going to finally speak on this matter…
Or wait till the scandal blows over and say nothing…..
we will see for sure
Will he accept the Elders plan to get right with God and his wife? Or coveniently leave the church to be able to maintain his wicked ways. Men get crazy when in love and they do not give up a woman. So we'll see...he'll be on everyone's radar.
@@lauras7352 great question!!! We will see for sure
Lawson is not special, this can happen to any pastor doesn't matter what theological hobby horse they ride. From what I can tell, sadly, Steve is now proven to be a hypocrite, a liar and completely disqualified from ministry. To suggest this has anything to do with his theology is disingenuous at best, this is a teaching moment not an 'I told you so' moment. I will pray for Steve and especially his family, it must be most devastating for them to go through this. Be humble.
It’s sad that Lawson duped a young lady who we assume is a believer….
I guess, yeah, that is more information that we need, we just don't know enough yet to know those details unfortunately.
No sex was involved? And you believe that?
I'm reformed and all my sources are angry about this and said we can't be hypocrites and sweep it under the rug. Everyone agrees he and his sermons, and materials should be avoided!
I know for me, I'm not trying to sweep it under the rug as far as forgetting about it or ignoring it, I want it to help us have conversations so we can grow, hopefully, that will happen
Be consistent Ruth, the reformed Calvinist god decreed this all to happen, for its glory.
@@truthseeker5698 God does not decree sin.
@@Ruth-1981 Absolutky decreed all Ruth. Be consistent and honest with your supposen chosen god.
@@truthseeker5698 well he decreed Pharaoh's sin in fighting Moses, so what's your argument?
ACCOUNTABILITY
Brother, I would encourage you to read Victor's comment, in response to what you're asking. It addresses some of the conflations you're making in your presentation. Steve Lawson taught sound doctrine, not heresy. That said, some would argue that he wrongly emphasized repentance and submission to the Lordship of Christ, when discussing salvation, and that's not without merit. But there was a season when I was doing that in my ministry, as well. Our theology is always improving, including our presentation of the gospel. That to me is a good sign that the Spirit is continuing to tutor and shape us as minsters of the gospel. By contrast, men who flat out preach a gospel of self-esteem or syncretism, instead of turning to Christ alone, are false teachers or wolves. They are leading you to Hell. If Steve Lawson never got caught and lived his whole life in sin, that wouldn't change the fact that the man knew the truth and taught it, well. Those who followed what he preached were no doubt blessed for doing so, and that will remain the case with Steve's body of work. The word always does its work in us, even out of the mouths of hypocrites.
@@heartofalegend I don’t disagree the word works, period! Agreed 👍🏻 but that was not the question I was asking. The word he taught was good and will always work, but sin, whatever it was, we still don’t know the full truth, made him a hypocrite and in need of repentance, that’s where I was going, thanks 😃
@@josephbachota I agree with everything you just said, brother.
This really is apples and oranges, and it surprises me that you can't see it.
There is a difference between setting out to deceive people (Joel osteen), and struggling with secret sin, David had to be rebuked by Nathan after about a year. Whether steve will repent or not remains to be seen, but he hasn't been a 'wolf' in the scriptural sense.
@@johnygoodwin3441 my comment of wolf was based upon the reformed camp’s definition of wolf: habitual, continuous, unrepentant sin. They classify that as a wolf so that’s why I’m asking them now, based upon their own definition, how are they classifying Steve now? That’s my point, and it’s a question based upon their standards, thanks
So didn't Steve set out to deceive his wife, family, elders, church, general following, for 5 years and longer if he hadn't been confronted about it?
I think she was a paid professional. Since they lived in different states, their antics had to have been over the phone. That remark about "no romantic overtones..." is hilarious. It was just doing the nasty by phone.
Good points
Wait till we hear about Paul Washer, John Piper, John MacArthur and other "Men of God".
*multiple sources.....name them.
*It was romantic....Did the girl and Lawson confess this, or is this assumption, and accusation? Define "romantic"?
*Who were Mohlers sources?
@@Lambdamale. they confessed it only after the woman’s father was going to expose him. And it wasn’t Mohler saying it, it came from Phil Johnson’s tweets and other articles. Mohler just said he didn’t see this coming, romantic? No idea, we need more details, thanks
@josephbachota They did confess after the girls father came forward. But what exactly did they confess to? Were they perhaps enjoying each other's company a tad too much? Did this young girl develop a crush and then get mad and run to her father when she was rejected? Did Lawson send her lude photos? Did he promise to whisk her off into the sunset? We simply don't have enough detail. Inappropriate relationships are very easy to develop, but this doesn't necessarily entail going as far as being romantic.
Steve Lawson's preachings are the same as John MacArthur, so they all have only Unclean Spirit inherited from your respective parents, however Steve has become an evidence for all the believers, all of them haven't received the Holy Spirit, simply these guys didn't sin like Steven but no difference. This is a wake up for believers to realise their Spirit which they believed is the Holy Spirit all these days.
Reformed people is the less consistent people I know...
Pharisees love to catch others in sin and put them on blast. Let anyone who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall.
Thankfully my discernment kept me away from Calvinism…
Lawson...
Lied
Hid the affair
For 5 yrs!!!
But it's an emotional affair; an "inappropriate relationship"... so let's not be too hard on poor Calvinist Steve!
Pastors, teachers, leaders of all sides are prone to sin .It is so much more glaring when a Calvinist sins like Lawson did. The reason being is that they are so condescending. I know, I was a Reformed, Orthodox Presbyterian, Calvinist for 57 years. We all idolized different past and current pillars in the faith. From Calvin, Knox, and Machen, to Sproul, McArthur, Bauchman, & Washer. We all quoted or used their sayings in our sermons, theology, and doctrinal conversations.
I suspect that Reformed Baptists, and PCA folk had their own mini circle of idols like we OPCers did. Heck, I loved Piper's books, I listened to Begg for years. B.B. Warfield, Ferguson, Ryken, Horton, Beeke, & Boice were all great influences.
The problem began with these Reformed Conferences the various camps started. Many of these men stopped being preachers/shepherds and became Reformed Rock Stars. White, Lawson, Washer, McArthur, and to some extent Sproul began to believe and relish this status.
There is something fundamentally wrong with a doctrine and by extension a local church that allows something like Lawson's sin go on for five plus years. When Pastors are away from their churches at 2-4 day conferences as much as 3-4 times per year, there is no real accountability. "Things" begin to be neglected, wife, children, grandchildren, flock, God, etc.
The elders of Lawson's church should have seen something, there is no way that Lawson could not have shown something to indicate what he was involved in.
Calvinism has done more harm to the Church than anything else besides Roman Catholicism.
The reason I grieve for Lawson and his ilk, is because he has a form of godliness but denies it's power.
2 Tim. 3:1-9 sums up this current situation. Lawson regularly was a boaster, proud, unloving, unforgiving, a slanderer, obviously did not have self-control, was head-strong, and obviously a lover of pleasure.
Unfortunately, Calvinist's resist the truth, 2 Tim 3:8, thus are disapproved concerning the faith. Verse 9 tells us that these men will progress no further, for their folly will be manifest to all, as theirs also was (Jannes & Jambres).
I have watched countless videos of Reformed men and women commenting on Lawson. None of them have used Scripture to rebuke Lawson. They all have used the Scriptures to restore him. Yes, he can be forgiven and hopefully he will repent. That is important to his future.
What is important to the Church, the Bride of Christ is to debunk this spurious doctrine that has plagued it for 1400 years. I implore people to get rid of your Westminster Standards, and Calvin's Institutes of the Christian Religion (I've read them all) and read, study, and pray the Scriptures
@@recoveredcalvinist wow 57 years, thanks for the inside information and thank you for everything you said, I agree 100% 👍🏻💯