Hydrostatic Testing A Scuba Tank - Scuba Tech Tips: S10E17
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 มี.ค. 2020
- Ever wonder what your scuba tank goes through to pass a hydrostatic test? Alec and Chris Sproule of Simcoe Diving, show the process and specialized equipment needed to perform hydrostatic tank testing.
Watch my "Alec Peirce at the Ranch" for ranch and home ideas. / @alecpeirceattheranch
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I've never seen the hydro test process before. That was cool to view. Thanks for making & sharing this video.
Glad you liked it! Few divers know the actual process of hydro testing (including Kevin). This has been helpful to lots of divers and there is a part #2 to watch also.
A
Hi Alec
That’s was something to see. I love the technology that goes into our great sport. Thank you once again for showing how tanks are hydro tested. Thank you for the gentlemen who let us watch the process and Kevin to.
Thank you for doing a lot for our sport and the community of diving
Your welcome Will. Lots more coming.
Alec
Alec, can't thank you enough for sharing the legacy of your knowledge and enthusiasm for the sport! Love your videos. Any comment on LDS refusal to hydro any AL tank minted before 1985?
I understand before 1975 the AL alloy was different, but I have a few beautiful low number cycle tanks that are pre '85..
Keep up the good work and enjoy the ranch!
The LDS can be responsible if a tank they certify fails so many LDS error on the side of caution when deciding to test tanks. Regarding Aluminum tanks that cannot be tested, watch "Buying A Used Scuba Tank - S10E12". I explain the problem and years affected primarily 1972 to 1988. Take your tanks to the LDS and have them check your make and serial number to see if it can be tested. If not, watch my "At The Ranch" series #44 Scuba Bells!!!
Thanks for watching.
Alec
@@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter I suspect it might be like with houses before in 1979 when lead paint and asbestos was still allowed. My house was remodel and all that material was removed along with all the electrical, supply plumbing, heating vents, heating, water heater, kitchen, roofing material, etc. being replaced back in 2004 so I do not have those issues even tough the framing was done in 1968. They used heavier material then, it has some huge pieces in the roof framing. Car Decking was more common then. I still have a squeak in one small area anyway but it is it where the wood flooring is so it is probably the Brazilian Cherry Wood and not the sub-floor making noise.
Mr Pierce, thank you for your dedication. I'm always learning a lot and laughing watching your videos, because you're just authentic and not exaggerating. You are unique and I hope you will keep on uploading those interesting stuff, because after 15 years of fire service, I like authentic people, that just tell everything straight out and do not complicate everything..! Greets from western Europe
Much appreciate your support and hello from Canada! You must be well trained in SCBA tanks and regulators for fire work. No fooling around with that life saving equipment.
Thanks for watching.
Alec
Very interesting video, thanks a lot for posting !
Thanks for watching Carlos.
Alec
Very informative and cool to see how the process is done.
Glad you learned something new. Lots more tips coming.
Alec
Your videos are great and detailed you really deserve more subscribers
I do it to share my love of the sport plus educate and entertain divers young and old. Thanks for watching Nicolas.
@@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter thanks
Great stuff for scuba technology aficionados!
Few divers know what happens between empty tank and full tank. I want everyone to know what your LDS does to keep you diving safe.
Alec
@@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter U R providing a valuable service, Alec. Thanks!!
Alec, Forgot how they do the markings on the tank. Great video.
It's a very high tech device called a hammer and punch.
Alec
Great video. Glad those PST tanks have become ‘legal’ in Canada again!
Yes they are!
Alec, Once again many thanks for sharing your wisdom, Must get ya a pint of Guinness some time, Thankyou.
Thanks and your on if I ever get to travel again.
In fact, I have been waiting for this video, because I bought my first scuba gear and second hand 15L single tank with it, I have to hydrotest it obviously before safe diving, I am glad still some gas left in it. I appreciete diving and Alec's videos.
Glad this helped you pickup something new.
Alec
Cool. Thanks.
Welome Ron.
Alec
Another great video Alec. When do we get to meet Kevin?!
Kevin is very shy and says he has a face only for radio!
Alec.
I don’t know about Canada but here in the state we are required to remove the tank boot before hydros. Our code says nothing can be on the outside cause it may skew the numbers
The boots should be removed in Canada but we left it on for just for the demo. Good eye Joe.
Now I know why it’s called a “hydro” test! It’s done in water! Who knew!?
See how your brain expands watching me talk!
Alec
the 5/3 nominal pressure test have another goal, every time you stress repitively a metallic structure, you induce micro cracks, the 5/3 pressure test blunts the tip of these micro cracks and avoids the propagation, it is a fatigue phenomenon and this technique avoids catastrophic failure by fatigue crack propagation.
Interesting points, thanks for sharing Jacques.
Alec.
Really interesting. The first time I see i. Unfortunately The film stopped at the end of the testing. I also want to know and see the next step, like how to dry the tank and make it high oxygen clean. And finally insert the valve on it and how the stamping works of the date.
Patience Pandit, I'm planning to do a part 2 to cover all those interesting and important steps.
Stay tuned to have your questions answered.
Alec
Many fire extinguisher companies can also do scuba tank hydroes, and often a whole lot quicker than the dive shops. The only caveat is a lot of them want just the bare cylinder, you have to take your boot and valve off before you bring it in.
In my area very few dive shops do hydros, they contract that out to the fire companies. I prefer the one shop that does it in house as the turn around is faster and they know the proper procedures for some of the hot dip galvanized tanks.
High volume companies have full time staff for hydro and visual inspections. Your LDS may send them to a local specialist when they collect enough for a pickup or as Simcoe Diving does it in house for many types of tanks, not just scuba.
It is something diver don't know about but are dependant on for safe diving.
Alec
A Haskell booster pump is not needed since the air drive of the water pump supplied by Hydro-Test Products, Inc. only requires an operating pressure of a 100 psi which a low pressure air compressor can easily supply.
I'm not the expert but Chris, the store owner, is fully certified and has a great testing setup for divers, fireman and any one with a tank needing testing.
This is fascinating! I have to ask, where do they sell those polo shirts, Alec?
Kevin's wife made custom shirts for us. Guess she didn't like my own choice in shirts!! They are not for sale, just used for our videos. If I ever hit 100,000 subscribers, then maybe we will do some merchandizing. For now, I'm focusing on educating and entertaining divers young and old.
Thanks for watching Bill.
Alec
Hi Alec . That was really interesting, thanks. Since you said that the metal stays stretched a little it would be interesting to do another test right after and see the change in the % reading. Not sure if the tank shrinks back down over the next 5 years? I have a few tanks with 6 tests stamped on them Is there a limit? Take care Owen m
There is no expiry date on a tank. They are like airplanes as there are DC3's from WW2 still flying after full a refurb. Regular annual visual inspections, hydro test every 5 years (Canada), and taking care of a valuable safety item will keep it in use for the grand kids. Our vintage Sea Hunt divers use tanks from the 1960's, steel 72's, double and triples, all in perfectly safe condition 60 years latter.
Take care Owen.
Alec
In Maryland around the Baltimore county area it a nightmare to get anything hydro a month wait and the costs it make more sense to just by another tank online that has been hydro the cost are about the same without the wait.
That's a shame as I can get a tank hydro tested in 3 different locations in Toronto within 2 weeks. Most of the time is waiting for pickup/drop off. Seems like you have a solution, not perfect but ok for your situation.
Great video.....hydro always seems like a scam when they charge $100
I know Simcoe Diving charges $52 Canadian for Aluminum and $60 for steel with an anti-rust compound added inside the steel tank. The testing part is quick as my video shows. However, it's the tank preparation, visual inspection, stamping, logging, drying, tank valve on, filling that makes the process much longer.
Alec
Hey there again have u made a video of your personal diving equipment?
Not this time, used the stores demo tank for this video.
Alec
In the rare instance when a tank fails, do they do anything to prevent it's future use? Seems like I remember hearing they would drill a hole in the tank if it failed. That was a long time ago though.
If a tank fails a hydro test, our Canadian regulations require it to be rendered useless, drilling holes was a non-standard past practice. Transport Canada (who gets its standards from the Compressed Gas Association in the USA), "prefers" hydro testers to stamp XXXXXX's over the tank serial number. This is supposed to notify future LDS fillers the tank had failed a hydro. It does not prevent a person from filling a failed tank using a personal compressor or if a LDS does not check the serial number before filling (which is a standard practice). Stamping out the serial number does not render the tank not-fillable. If a hole is drilled, inspectors worry someone would try to fill the hole then fill the tank creating a bullet.
Tanks rarely fail a hydro test alone as they would first fail a Visual Inspection first (ie tank valve thread cracks). Modern tanks are made to tolerate pressures 2x or 3x higher than working pressure (with no burst disk).
Hope this helps.
Alec
Hey Alec I noticed the plastic boot was still on the tank. Shouldn't it be removed first?
Good catch Peter, yes tank boots should be removed but for our demo video it was not. In practice boot on or off has no measurable difference to the test results but are removed for visual inspections.
Alec
In 1970 about a 2 years before I took up scuba diving, I worked for about 5 months for SELOX a welding supply company, as their hydrostatic tester. We were testing 300 cubic foot welding gas cylinders, but basically the same process and almost same equipment. We didn’t weigh the water but I believe we just had gauges that we looked at to determine amount of stretch. We also had a machine that removed the valves instead of by hand. Other than that not much difference after 50 years!
As you say, the basic hydro test has not changed, to measure tank elasticity, however new tools have made it easier. The setup Simcoe Diving has in the video is very nice from a large water tank to stabilize temperature, to HP pumps, dials and a digital scale. Tanks still need a trained and capable operator to make it all work.
Thanks for sharing your experiences.
Alec
Actually I and others feel that, mostly unnecessary, Hydro testing is prematurely causing scuba tank failure by rejection from excessively stretching the cylinder. A well maintained and visually inspected tank will last perhaps a lifetime to 1 diver.
As I understand DOT regulations require hydro testing, maybe they can stop watching Hollywood and their movie antics making scuba tanks Explode! Poor Bruce from Jaws
Thanks Alec for a good Tech Tip Jim
Since hydro testing was legislated, it has cut down greatly on tank failures. I know as I used to fill thousands a year and was confident none would explode.
A
I have owned a fire extinguisher company for 44 years. I have failed more extinguishers on a visual than in the jacket. Recently, one of my own CO2 cylinders used to run equipment in the shop needed a hydro. Passed with flying colors on the visual. Blew out the bottom in the jacket.
Pretty cool !!! I always wondered how they did this . How much does this test cost ?
Last time I had my tanks hydroed I think it was $45 each, including the viz and fill afterwards. Not too bad considering the peace of mind that comes with it.
Simcoe Diving charges $52 Canadian for Aluminum and $60 for steel with an anti-rust compound added inside the steel tank. Price varies by location and if they do it in-house or send them out.
Alec
Would this be the difference between elastic and plastic deformation?
Thats right. This simple explanation is for those who read your question.
When pressure expands the tank and it stays changed, that is plastic deformation. When the pressure reduces and the tank goes back to its original form, that's elastic deformation. Hydrostatic testing measures the elastic expansion of a tank to ensure it does return to its original shape. Good question and thanks for watching Joshua.
A.
Hi Alec. Can you do training for us? We would like to have this at our facility.
Sorry my friend but I'm staying locked in at my ranch until the crazy world is safe for old guys like me. Much appreciate the offer sir.
Alec, can you use a Nitrox tank for regular air afterwards?
Watch my video S10E02, Is Tank O2 cleaning necessary? I explain the condition when you can switch between EAN and air and back. Hope that answers your question.
Thanks for watching.
Alec.
Alec Peirce Scuba, thanks, that was what I wanted to hear. 👍🏿
Is This hydro shell expanding too?
By hydro shell you mean the container holding the tank and water? According to Chris, the shell has a minute flex when pressurized but negligible difference to the tanks flexing. Every variable is considered and must be in-scope for measurements. Did you notice the tank water has to be within a certain temperature range? It's a very complicated and governed setup to be certified for hydro testing. Thanks for asking.
How much does the equipment cost to do a hydrostatic test on Scuba tanks and what are the certifications that you need to be able to do the hydrostatic test. Thank you.
I don't know the costs as it depends on the country and its regulations. I know for Chris at Simcoe Diving, it was not cheap but he also does fire station tanks fills & tests. It's a very slick setup when up and running but not something i would do. Post this question on www.scubaboard.com where there are lots of folks to get feedback from.
A
My dad was a fireman for most my life and I remember back in the day they used to have to fill all tanks in a tub of water to keep em cool. Now they dont do that anymore. Was or is there a purpose to this?
There was a belief that water cooling the tanks during filling was a good idea. Years ago that was abandoned because physics was applied and proved no benefit to water tank baths. I did an article on that years ago, will have to do a video on it.
A
How does one calculate the % on the calculator? Please let me know?
There is a paper form where all the measurements and calculations are logged as required by regulations. I don't have the details but if really interested, contact Chris at Simcoe Diving directly: www.simcoediving.com
@@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter Thank you
I will drop him a mail 🙏👍🏽
What happens if the tank doesn't pass for whatever reason?
Generally it is returned to the diver. In theory at least, since it has no test stamp, it cannot be used again. At one time, test stations would make the tank unusable by drilling a hole in it or cutting the threads but some divers objected to that. Alec
Why tested to such high pressure of "165.5 bar" when scuba dive pressure is limited to only 30m depth of "4.053 bar"?
Tested to 4000 PSI or 275.7903 bar (inclusive of 5/3 safety margin), which equate to 165.5 bar of "working pressure" (w/o safety margin). Knowing scuba depth limit is to 30 meter @ 4 atm (or 4.053 bar)
Simply stated, regulations require testing to 5/3 to accurately measure the tanks 'flex'. All this is to ensure the tank is safe for repeated fillings to its normal working pressure. Tanks are capable of holding higher pressure but not repeatedly filled/emptied.
guessagain: It looks like you're confusing water pressure with air pressure.
Because if you leave the tank in your car during a summer day, the heat will make the pressure rise beyond the initial fill pressure.
It was a ok... I would have like a better understanding ... The guy helped explaining in English..... But still don't get it the water displaced ...
As the tank fills with air the metal expands pushing a small but measurable amount of water out of the closed system. The displaced water can be measured and if within acceptable range, the tank is passed. Does this help summarize it?
@@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter you mean " as the tank fills with water" ...not air :)
alondro:
You may be missing the idea that the testing chamber stays at atmospheric pressure, and is directly connected to the pipe that carries water to the beaker on the scale as the air tank expands (and carries it back when the air tank shrinks).