Seeing the Samurai combat reenactment gives a better appreciation and understanding why throws/takedowns , top position and osaekomi waza is held in such high scoring in Judo. Study the old to understand the new. Like always, excellent videos.
These reenactments haven't much in common with the real thing, actually. It's just larp and I'll explain why. First of, the use of their weapons is fully nonsensical. Or they try to bash like idiots on armors with their sword (spoiler : even with the real thing it wouldn't do much against an opponent in full yoroi), or they do these whateverish things with their spear, which is a confused mix of spear formation techniques and individual ones. And when you end wrestling in a spear duel, there's an obvious problem. To sum it up, they have no idea what they're doing. Now about the "judo" Techniques. Judo and old martial arts schools have a lot of techniques in common. Just go look how they do them. It's rare they roll to the ground and you perfectly see the reason why with these "reenactors" : it's freaking suicidal in a battlefield context. Let's remind it quickly : you're facing thousands of enemies covered with an average weight of 20kg of steel on your body, on a terrain turned muddy by thousands of feet plowing it. Basically, not only you're super exposed if you go ground fighting here, but you'll waste precious time and energy standing back. It's literally calling for an enemy to come to take your head like you'd pick a flower on a field.
Absolutely, if you’re on bottom you’re losing. Your opponent can just stand up if he wants. And youre at a complete disadvantage when pointy things come out.
@@hannibalwantsahuggrande3433 You can do much better than this. I have seen HEMA schools doing great choreographed duels which looked realistic. You can do much better than this with actual knowledge on the subject and a proper training in actual martial arts of that time. The problem here is it looks nothing like realistic. Just like you put two random people in homemade armors and told them to fight each other.
Thank you for this video. We in the “kenjutsu” community really appreciate how much research and effort is put into these videos on the old ways of weaponized combat.
OUTSTANDING VIDEO! You are correct in that people who mock the Koryu Jujutsu framework, do not understand how it translates to the modern applications. In self defense and in battle, it is hard, fast and brutal with NO referee! Thank you!
This hat really nothing to do with koryu sadly and these "samurai" are totally clueless about any elementary concept of armored combat. It's larping. Watch yagyu shingan katchu heiho videos if you want an idea if the real thing.
Very nice video chadi. Showed the strategy of throwing. My Japanese judo sensei used to talk about judo coming from the battlefield. Pins are life and death. You are finished! He would shout osaokomi he you couldn't escape quickly he says you dead, in broken English! Fun times and great teaching moment, that sport judo is coming from battlefield tactics.
This is fabulous footage Of the armoured samurai reenactment. Knife fighting on the ground it's a totally different animal. If you notice all those attacks with open hand are MI micking a knife. If someone's mocking The finishing blows of the old Jujitsu. It is a Form To condition a specific response. If you get chopped in the throat. Adams Apple for example or someone breaks your nose. If you're a pin down and you're getting hit in the solar plucks consistently These moves will work. Also last time I checked most people are not training their hands and doing condition. The average fighter who conditions their hands and their body to take blows and hits are totally in a different category than the people Who are not trained. If you do some of these moves to a train fighter yes it probably wont-work as well or at all. Good video love the new contact
Their way of fighting would have been suicidal on a battlefield back then. They have no concept of zanshin at all. Anyone would have taken their head with the same ease a child pick a flower.
👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽 Great video Chadi!!! Perspective is key. People underestimate the Koryu systems because they cant understand the context. Its a quick, brutal and dirty business.
It reminds me western historical fencing skills (see HEMA), it also includes grappling and takedown. By the way, western wrestling was highly estimated by master Kano. East and West must respect each other, because there`re two wings of one greate bird named humanity.
Wow. That is a sparring plus re-enactment not the usual samurai cosplay. Things end very quickly on the battlefield. This is the type of re-enactment I would go for. Hollywood choreographers should note these sparring sessions. Bravo Chadi. Wonderful.
Obviously both wrestling (Catch) and Judo have submissions, but what you discuss in this video is why I'm not super convinced by the idea that a stellar submission game is the end-all for self-defense. I've heard/read a lot something like: "sure a wrestler or judo guy can take a BJJ guy down, but once they get down to the ground *they don't know how to finish the fight* " Even forgetting ground and pound, obvious dirty stuff to do damage, and how often big slams DO end the fight in street fight and self-defense videos, an average wrestler and/or judoka with a pin can end it with a pocket knife, pen, or even just a cellphone (blunt trauma). Obviously there is a major benefit in knowing submissions, both offensively and defensively, but they seem to be taken as the pinnacle of grappling according to the current paradigm, but I don't think that really matches the brutal reality of fighting throughout history. This is an awesome and informative video btw. Also check out this HEMA takedown: th-cam.com/video/tOgSOXSjthE/w-d-xo.html
Good thoughts and a well written comment! If I remember correctly that takedown video had a background story where both of the fencers had a different understanding about the grappling ruleset of that particular tournament so the other guy was completly surprised.
As a bjj practitioner for 7 years now, I 100% agree. It’s ok for sport to learn all of these submissions, different guards but if someone wants to learn for self defense reasons, I show them throws n the basic blue belt level stuff. Cuz in reality a De La Riva guard, one of my go to... is useless in a street fight. I never, in a real case scenario want to b on my back full guard, on a hard concrete ground with a dude who wants to do serious damage.
That was a brutal body slam/ sukui nage. I would love to see more HEMA on this channel, but I also think it would be asking too much of Chadi. His focus is on the Japanese martial traditions, and he sometimes compares judo to other forms of wrestling. I wish I had the time to make such a channel myself about European martial arts and how they compare. Personally, I don't think the samurai knew anything more about combat than Europeans at various points in time and re-engineered HEMA from old manuals is good proof. These manuals are full of grappling techniques and a top-level HEMA longsword practitioner deals with kendo experts evenly.
If you use a knife after throwing someone your going to jail for 2nd degree murder because it's no longer necessary to defend yourself at that point, that would only be justifiable in war.
Very interesting post! I've always found it very cringey and naive when my fellow BJJ practitioners talk about 'simulated death' as if BJJ was the way they'd kill people, but this video (going back to the Japanese roots) explains where the idea originates from. Also made a lot more sense out of the strikes they were doing, aka that they are stabs.
Great video Chadi, the reenactment really drives home the why certain techniques were valued. Regarding the critics, just think, if Kano had the same attituide as them, the BJJ they love would not exist.
@@scarred10 and here we go the typical martial elitist. There is no such thing as combat sport. Nobody is trying to kill anyone in these competitions. And in combat (life and death) you don’t get study your opponents or have a ref to stop the fight if you get ko’d. You or your attackers don’t have protective gloves and mouth piece. It seldom happens on flat stable mats. There will be no others jumping in, no weapons and no disqualification for breaking the rules. Sport fighters will prevail 100% of the time in their perspective sports. MMA & and BJJ has never been battle tested like Samurai jujutsu which has centuries of documented evidence in combat. Like it or not, your sports come from ancient systems. BJJ from judo which comes from jujitsu. Wrestling from ancient European combat systems such as pancration, Glima and others. Muay Tai from Muay Tai Boran. Sorry, but you cannot deny the roots.
Chadi, I watched this on my lunch break and you did an OUTSTANDING job putting this together and including the full contact Koryu re-enactment battles! I give this video 10 Stars! BTW: I recommend your channel on my blog and on my Quora account. I love that you present historical and modern unadulterated facts as an honest journalist, historian and videographer. Thank You & God bless you Chadi!
As to the last point you made about people criticising the striking shown in Judo's kata. The way I see it is, the kata might, for example, execute a throw and follow it up with a single strike. Well after that strike I have options, I can continue striking or I can try to run away. The kata doesn't have to include ground and pound, or running away for me to know that they are options. This is fairly obvious stuff which shouldn't need to be included in kata that also have ritual and display elements in them.
Thank you very much. Your channel is considered one of the best channels, in addition to your distinctive style of showing martial arts specially judo. I wish you all success and prosperity. I hope you have a video about combat sambo
Kata is a catalogue of techniques, not a real fight, that demonstrates key concepts of Judo/jujutsu. If you are interested in Judo as self defense then kata is a must. Randori is just to reinforce those techniques and develop athleticism.
Also research Sambo, Georgian grip techniques. I have found that they work great against BJJ tackles. You just have to be sure to first step offline first.
Funny that you make a video like this, it touches on some things I've been thinking about recently. There's a fellow who's done some interesting research into ninjustu and samurai history who downplays the importance of koryu martial arts. That is to say he thinks that samurai wouldn't have ever used unarmed techniques in combat. Several things have made it clear to me that the distinction between armed and unarmed martial isn't as clear as many think. Ur kendo video is a good example, this one is as well now. We also know from research by HEMA and fencing folks that even european knights would grapple up close. Everyone wants to act like armed/unarmed/sport/self defense are all completely detached but I think generally effective/high percentage techniques have more crossover than some are willing to admit. Now and historically speaking.
I think this is Antony Cummings you are talking about? Did he actually say that? I've always appreciated his research into actual "ninjutsu" and samurai history, but I'd appreciate a link to where he said that about koryu. If that's actually his assertion, and not that you misunderstood, I think I'd have to unsubscribe from him instantly lol.
I'd agree on Ko Soto Gari. I don't even take Judo but in the past when me and friends might be play fighting, for some reason I've just naturally gravitated to the principles of that move ie; my friend who does muay thai would come in to start his clinch, I then grab on to him and my lead leg wants to hook around the back of his while I push him away. It's such a natural technique, I don't know why. But I'm not complaining :)
I would like to thank you for differentiating for everyone the differances. You are corect with your analysis about the way older generation trained and especially about the efficiency and effectiveness of the atimi Wada thank you
Genial!!!! El combate samurai brutal!!! Impresionante!!! Sin armaduras creo que sería un tanto distinto. O caer al suelo en un campo de batalla no es algo que desearías. Buen trabajo!!!
Yes, I was thrown a lot in Kendo, esp. in Chuo Dojo in California, but they stopped doing such brutal throws in training...the beginning video looks reminiscent, it even might have been taken from our dojo...
I believe part of the reason why people mock the strikes on the recent video is because it was displayed as a single strike in a setting with a compliant partner which may have made people think that a single punch would knock out or kill the opponent. Obviously if you were fighting you would not strike singly and your partner would not comply, the video just showed the principle in a clear way as it should be in a technical demonstration. People mocking that do not realize what distinguishes a demonstration from a fight.
Extremely interesting and gives rise to many questions around sportification or modernisation of martial arts. Nowhere do we see anyone go to turtle position. All fighters avoid giving up their back be it to throw or on the ground, something the Gracies emphasised constantly in their teaching. The throws are generally O Soto Gari style, or sweeps, no huge arching throws using the hips, and lots of sacrifice throws. The speed of the attacks also allow us to see where Aikido or Aiki Jiu Jitsu approaches could apply far more.
Thank you for the video. To me it shows what a developement of human activity MMA is: If you see "battelfield" and "training in the dojo" as as two points at the end of a continous line, MMA appears a bit closer to battlefield than the training, but is still a good distance away from "battlefield. MMA still having clear rules (gloves, certain movement restrictions and most important: a bell and referee ending the fight) it has so many unrealistic movements and practices that seperate it from battle. Best wishes!
This is an older video. This video is the reason I believe sport judo and wrestling is better then sport BJJ. Because it shows the strength of top position for self-defense. All these fighters are fighting to stay on their feet. The moment you guard pull or put emphasis on guard pull is the moment you throw any kind of self defense out the door. The moment you believe you will do something different then what you train for in battle is the moment you lie yourself. Your body will react in the way you train. It’s why you train, for muscle memory. Train your muscles memory right, and you will respond accordingly in a self-defense scenario. Train them wrong and you will pull guard and want to be on the ground in a compromising position because you have fooled body to believe it’s the winning position.
Kendo comes from the older Gekkiken, which the samurai used as sparing. It combines kenjutsu with jujitsu. Kendo is sport sword fighting but does not allow grappling, striking and some cuts are even against the rules.
Another great video. Maybe another example why double legs are not the best for the battlefield. Standing throw into a top position draw sword finish. Double leg leaves samurai exposed back while leaving opponents hands free to draw on you and stab.
Yes. There's also some other nuances to consider- that even modern law enforcement consider today, like weapon retention, hand switching, and blind spots. You don't always want to get pinned to the ground- almost never, because an opponent can either draw their own secondary, or they can pin you down and draw your secondary or v.v. You almost always want to see where your opponent's hands are- and doing newaza and being touchy feely is almost a death sentence. Going for the takedown also puts you on the ground, and your opponent's buddy can come and stab you too. Lots of considerations for RL stuff for sure.
Very nice video. The previous attacks on the strikes often come from misunderstanding. Remember, in battle.(even on the street) you may be striking (at least initially) from a disadvantaged position (not a so called true fighting stance & guard), and.or with things in your hands (such as weapons if at war, of groceries, etc. if not). Also, to strike someone whom has armor, you will have to strike those small openings that are unprotected (such as seems between plates, possibly throat/neck, etc.).
This is a very welcome video. I appreciate your taking the time to make it for us. Seeing the recreation here it is easy to imagine the focus and determination necessary of the common foot soldier when dealing with a desperate combat situation. I believe there were occasions when troops, with few or no weapons, fought and succeeded in taking their enemies weapons away. We are taught that Marshal Yueh Fei instructed peasant conscripts in basic chin-na and shuai jiao. I am certain with his ''life on the line'' a soldier would do his best to survive. Uncommon stress producing uncommon skill. The birth of modern combat arts is soaked in the blood of the past. All the best. Laoshr #60 C.Y.K.F.A.
Where did you get the samurai videos from? It would be nice if you could cite them in your description at least by posting their links or channels (esp. because you’re using other people’s contents)
If he acquired it from a public post or public channel there's no problem in using anyone elses content, if that was your meaning. Unless it's copywritten, which it's not cause I saw all of this same video footage before on public fakebook pages promoting schools in Japan. Also, Chadi sometimes has fans that send him video footage for his research. So he can't always provide links.
I believe it's called "Samurai kumiuchi" On a side note, i cut this video that's made up of many clips as parts of one presentation, while also adding commentary, this video is 100% transformative content, legal under fair use law, and 100% mine from idea and concept. If i used someone's video and i just put it there no commentary added, then yes it's someone else's work.
This is a much more accurate depiction of how JuJutsu was used on the battlefield. Because these reenactments are not choreographed at all. Both people dressed in samurai armor are literally going at it like they’re actually trying to kill each other. In fact they actually do competitions based on this. So half of these reenactments are actually competitions of people literally using real deadly martial arts but with fake weapons so they don’t actually hurt each other. So this is real JuJutsu and Kenjutsu.
I wonder what kinda injuries could occur while falling (in a self sacrificing throw) wearing an armour (and all its accessories) and the weapons (tachi, wakizashi and tanto) on someome likely equipped ... Un sujet intéressant! Merci pour ce partage !
One of the biggest problems that I see with modern kendo and HEMA is that they almost purely focus on utilizing their weapons instead of utilizing the weapon AND grappling. I'm pretty sure that a seasoned grappler could just bum rush one of these guys and just grapple fuck them to the point where their weapons are rendered useless.
Passing the sword is not an easy task, it is comparable to mma where you can't just initiate a grapple without opening yourself up to attacks. Initiating the grapple must be done with other attacks and feints. I think seasoned grappler can use their experience well after they get accustomed to swordplay and learn the basics of distance and tempo.
WRONG!!! You would just bum-rush right into a knife after first getting past the sword. And remember, lots of Kendo practitioners ALSO train in other styles as well.
@@anonymousshawn9996 we don t have the time machine but apparently there is a huge need to go to wrestling sometimes, because of some modernism, like short weapons not existing. When in all koryus when you don t have a long weapon, you go bast his sword to stab him, and not to wrestle him..... I could be wrong. but when someone likes wrestling, he sees wrestling everywhere...
We can see in the video that weapon attacks are lightning fast, so unless we all reach Neo level perception of reality to counter them with empty hands is actually impossible and disastrous. The best way to fight weapons is with weapons (and shield). In the video itself proved that martial art techniques, the take downs only being used in certain circumstances, by means it is not a right away action, weapons fighting first and then when the correct circumstances come then the take down happen. The same principle also applied in unarmed combat (martial art sport), there is no such thing as "martial art techniques don't work", they do work but the fighters often try to use them in wrong circumstances.
100% Many things that we use today like drills sparring kata etc are seen from today's perspective. The more i read about old methods the more i appreciate them, and many arts evolved for different purposes today (Kyudo is a great example) so saying traditional arts Don't work is inaccurate the more i study.
There are so many naysayers in martial arts nowadays. MMA has created a fan base (that often aren't practitioners of anything) that can't look past their sport - ground and pounding someone in armor will only break your hand, targeting a precise point in a gap in armor or hitting a vital point will cause damage. People need to grow up and open their minds.
Not just that, the MMA people don't realize that the guys that teach the real stuff are the first ones telling you to learn so you don;t have to use. That's why Karate kid has endured, that lesson was out there.
Hey man! Someone posted this recently on FB and they believe you are saying that Judo was used in the Sengoku era OR during an active, old school scenario. I think you mean the throws come from there and Judo absorbed them when being formed. What say you?
Hello Chadi I usually love your videos. i have given you many likes and positive comments in the past, but I have a few issues with this video: 1. it is based on a false presumption. you say this video is "Judo throws from the battlefield" but then you show us simulated encounters to say that it is representative of the battlefield. i am sure those simulations were based on rules to ensure safety. This leads to my second point: 2. I did not see one instance here of the small joint manipulation shown in your prior video. undoubtedly this and grabbing the neck area were the two main means of throwing someone. after all, what more efficient way to effect kuzushi than through pain compliance? i saw no seoinage in this video and i believe that is because the classic martial way would have been too dangerous for this battlefield simulation
This video is called throws from the battlefield, not ALL throws, this is the footage i have, i worked with i got. I simply cannot use a time machine to show how things really were. But we can see a clear pattern of weaponry followed by a clinch, take down and the finish on the ground, much like old Kendo, and mma sequence minus the weapons. If it gave a fals impression i didn't mean it, but that's what's available.
I can assure you small joint manipulation has no place on any battlefield because you wont have a hope of grabbing a hand thats holding a weapon.Seonage is also a very hard throw to pull off in armour with weapons and striking involved,you hardly ever see it used in mma or no gi or wrestling either.
Those reenactments put the samurai combat into realistic perspective, we got too much of Hollywood's zen drinking tea peacefully, then one cut death movies. This way you can see how vicious combat was and is ...
Why not? People mock Aikido / Daito all the time. And it is derived from the same body of jujutsu techniques. Uses the same strikes, locks etc. Maybe it’s the man-buns?
@@Chadi actually it’s the sparing aspect. There is no active resistance in either on the part of uke. There are good reasons for this in terms of locks and throws ( especially throws using locks) for safety sake. But from the perspective of combat sports the optics are bad. ( you realize I’m being very generous here on the part of these two)
I can’t speak for Aikido. It is an samurai influenced art that really went a different direction on the principles of combat than Diato and other jujitsu systems. Diato Ryu and most of the jujitsu schools used their techniques in actual combat for centuries. Aikido was created almost 100 years after the samurai were abolished. Jujitsu schools used to spar and have contest matches but severe injuries and deaths were allowed. After Ythey we’re only allowed to train katas.
My teacher explained 'sutemi' throws this way. It's in the spirit of sacrificing your life to kill another. On a muddy battlefield, slippery with blood and other bodily fluids, clinching at close quarters would probably end up on the ground. If you spent too long grappling you would end up stabbed in the gaps of your armour by the yari wielding peasants on the opposing side. If you went down you needed to finish it quickly to survive. A 1 in 3 chance of survival and even then you might die of secondary infection or maiming afterwards. The reenactment footage gives the beginning of the idea of this, now add mud, dead and dying men and horses, sharp trip hazards, noise, smoke etc... War is rarely 1 on 1, never 'fair' and always nasty and ugly.
Kinda cool but this stuff is all just another form of play. This doesn't look any more like what a real battle might have been like than any Samurai movie or anime. It might fit your conception of what it might look like, but you have no idea because you were never on that battlefield.
The Royce takedown was the most cowardly, dishonorable sh*t in MMA history. He had just knee'd Shamrock in the groin. Shamrock is standing there helpless with both hands on his crotch and Royce takes him down and pounds him out while the clueless (or bribed) referee fails to notice what's happening. Grotesque example to use for your otherwise great video.
Seeing the Samurai combat reenactment gives a better appreciation and understanding why throws/takedowns , top position and osaekomi waza is held in such high scoring in Judo. Study the old to understand the new. Like always, excellent videos.
100%
These reenactments haven't much in common with the real thing, actually. It's just larp and I'll explain why.
First of, the use of their weapons is fully nonsensical. Or they try to bash like idiots on armors with their sword (spoiler : even with the real thing it wouldn't do much against an opponent in full yoroi), or they do these whateverish things with their spear, which is a confused mix of spear formation techniques and individual ones. And when you end wrestling in a spear duel, there's an obvious problem.
To sum it up, they have no idea what they're doing.
Now about the "judo" Techniques.
Judo and old martial arts schools have a lot of techniques in common. Just go look how they do them. It's rare they roll to the ground and you perfectly see the reason why with these "reenactors" : it's freaking suicidal in a battlefield context. Let's remind it quickly : you're facing thousands of enemies covered with an average weight of 20kg of steel on your body, on a terrain turned muddy by thousands of feet plowing it.
Basically, not only you're super exposed if you go ground fighting here, but you'll waste precious time and energy standing back. It's literally calling for an enemy to come to take your head like you'd pick a flower on a field.
Absolutely, if you’re on bottom you’re losing. Your opponent can just stand up if he wants. And youre at a complete disadvantage when pointy things come out.
@@Hachizukatenzo well thats fair but how are you ever going to reanact an old school battle with total accuracy? I think its pretty cool non the less.
@@hannibalwantsahuggrande3433 You can do much better than this. I have seen HEMA schools doing great choreographed duels which looked realistic. You can do much better than this with actual knowledge on the subject and a proper training in actual martial arts of that time. The problem here is it looks nothing like realistic. Just like you put two random people in homemade armors and told them to fight each other.
This video was the first time that I saw realistic weapon based applications of judo/juijitsu. Thanks Chadi.
🙇🏻♂️
This is actually jujutsu.
Thank you for this video. We in the “kenjutsu” community really appreciate how much research and effort is put into these videos on the old ways of weaponized combat.
🙇🏻♂️
OUTSTANDING VIDEO! You are correct in that people who mock the Koryu Jujutsu framework, do not understand how it translates to the modern applications. In self defense and in battle, it is hard, fast and brutal with NO referee! Thank you!
Thank you Diane
This hat really nothing to do with koryu sadly and these "samurai" are totally clueless about any elementary concept of armored combat. It's larping.
Watch yagyu shingan katchu heiho videos if you want an idea if the real thing.
Very nice video chadi. Showed the strategy of throwing. My Japanese judo sensei used to talk about judo coming from the battlefield. Pins are life and death. You are finished! He would shout osaokomi he you couldn't escape quickly he says you dead, in broken English! Fun times and great teaching moment, that sport judo is coming from battlefield tactics.
Sensei is correct
This is fabulous footage Of the armoured samurai reenactment. Knife fighting on the ground it's a totally different animal. If you notice all those attacks with open hand are MI micking a knife. If someone's mocking The finishing blows of the old Jujitsu. It is a Form To condition a specific response. If you get chopped in the throat. Adams Apple for example or someone breaks your nose. If you're a pin down and you're getting hit in the solar plucks consistently These moves will work. Also last time I checked most people are not training their hands and doing condition. The average fighter who conditions their hands and their body to take blows and hits are totally in a different category than the people Who are not trained. If you do some of these moves to a train fighter yes it probably wont-work as well or at all. Good video love the new contact
Thank you
Their way of fighting would have been suicidal on a battlefield back then. They have no concept of zanshin at all. Anyone would have taken their head with the same ease a child pick a flower.
These techniques are effective in the MMA ring.
Judo Throws and Kendo was what influenced Shotokan Karate. In fact many dinamics are tha same.
Good video like always!
👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽 Great video Chadi!!! Perspective is key. People underestimate the Koryu systems because they cant understand the context. Its a quick, brutal and dirty business.
Exactly, thank you
It reminds me western historical fencing skills (see HEMA), it also includes grappling and takedown. By the way, western wrestling was highly estimated by master Kano. East and West must respect each other, because there`re two wings of one greate bird named humanity.
Although I was a white belt in BJJ, I love watching and learning the judo technique videos of the Kodokan channel, thank you for sharing 😊.
Thank you very much
Continue your training, and pass it down.
Good luck.
Wow. That is a sparring plus re-enactment not the usual samurai cosplay.
Things end very quickly on the battlefield.
This is the type of re-enactment I would go for.
Hollywood choreographers should note these sparring sessions.
Bravo Chadi. Wonderful.
Thank you
Obviously both wrestling (Catch) and Judo have submissions, but what you discuss in this video is why I'm not super convinced by the idea that a stellar submission game is the end-all for self-defense. I've heard/read a lot something like: "sure a wrestler or judo guy can take a BJJ guy down, but once they get down to the ground *they don't know how to finish the fight* " Even forgetting ground and pound, obvious dirty stuff to do damage, and how often big slams DO end the fight in street fight and self-defense videos, an average wrestler and/or judoka with a pin can end it with a pocket knife, pen, or even just a cellphone (blunt trauma).
Obviously there is a major benefit in knowing submissions, both offensively and defensively, but they seem to be taken as the pinnacle of grappling according to the current paradigm, but I don't think that really matches the brutal reality of fighting throughout history.
This is an awesome and informative video btw. Also check out this HEMA takedown:
th-cam.com/video/tOgSOXSjthE/w-d-xo.html
Good thoughts and a well written comment!
If I remember correctly that takedown video had a background story where both of the fencers had a different understanding about the grappling ruleset of that particular tournament so the other guy was completly surprised.
@@Eetupa
Thanks
And oh wow, that makes it even more brutal
As a bjj practitioner for 7 years now, I 100% agree. It’s ok for sport to learn all of these submissions, different guards but if someone wants to learn for self defense reasons, I show them throws n the basic blue belt level stuff. Cuz in reality a De La Riva guard, one of my go to... is useless in a street fight. I never, in a real case scenario want to b on my back full guard, on a hard concrete ground with a dude who wants to do serious damage.
That was a brutal body slam/ sukui nage. I would love to see more HEMA on this channel, but I also think it would be asking too much of Chadi. His focus is on the Japanese martial traditions, and he sometimes compares judo to other forms of wrestling. I wish I had the time to make such a channel myself about European martial arts and how they compare. Personally, I don't think the samurai knew anything more about combat than Europeans at various points in time and re-engineered HEMA from old manuals is good proof. These manuals are full of grappling techniques and a top-level HEMA longsword practitioner deals with kendo experts evenly.
If you use a knife after throwing someone your going to jail for 2nd degree murder because it's no longer necessary to defend yourself at that point, that would only be justifiable in war.
I appreciate this level headed approach to martial arts research. Nice video.
Thank you
Very interesting post! I've always found it very cringey and naive when my fellow BJJ practitioners talk about 'simulated death' as if BJJ was the way they'd kill people, but this video (going back to the Japanese roots) explains where the idea originates from.
Also made a lot more sense out of the strikes they were doing, aka that they are stabs.
Great video Chadi, the reenactment really drives home the why certain techniques were valued. Regarding the critics, just think, if Kano had the same attituide as them, the BJJ they love would not exist.
100%
What people can't understand is that the concept MMA (mixed martial Arts) is literally in the name. MMA comes from a mixture of traditional arts.
100%
It actually does not,largely its from combat sports that are proven to work
@@scarred10 and here we go the typical martial elitist. There is no such thing as combat sport. Nobody is trying to kill anyone in these competitions. And in combat (life and death) you don’t get study your opponents or have a ref to stop the fight if you get ko’d. You or your attackers don’t have protective gloves and mouth piece. It seldom happens on flat stable mats. There will be no others jumping in, no weapons and no disqualification for breaking the rules. Sport fighters will prevail 100% of the time in their perspective sports. MMA & and BJJ has never been battle tested like Samurai jujutsu which has centuries of documented evidence in combat. Like it or not, your sports come from ancient systems. BJJ from judo which comes from jujitsu. Wrestling from ancient European combat systems such as pancration, Glima and others. Muay Tai from Muay Tai Boran. Sorry, but you cannot deny the roots.
This is Japan Jiu-jitsu. Judo, Bjj, and other various fighting systems came out of JJJ.
Indeed
Chadi, I watched this on my lunch break and you did an OUTSTANDING job putting this together and including the full contact Koryu re-enactment battles! I give this video 10 Stars!
BTW: I recommend your channel on my blog and on my Quora account.
I love that you present historical and modern unadulterated facts as an honest journalist, historian and videographer. Thank You & God bless you Chadi!
Thank you so much and God bless you too brother.
I really appreciate your breakdown and commentary on the videos and the opinions that you hold to great work man really appreciate it thank you
0:50 - O sto otoshi
1:40 - Ko soto gake
2:45 - Uki otoshi
3:45 - Tomeo nage
4:05 - Sumi gaeshi
5:05 - Tani otoshi
7:15 - Striking in old judo
8:40 - Conclusion
I love these videos you make bringing back to the battlefield.
Thank you
1:06 o soto otoshi
1:59 ko soto gake
2:41 uki otoshi
3:43 tomoe naga
4:06 sumi gaeshi
5:10 tani otoshi
Awesome thanks
@@Patrick-sheen You're welcome
As to the last point you made about people criticising the striking shown in Judo's kata. The way I see it is, the kata might, for example, execute a throw and follow it up with a single strike. Well after that strike I have options, I can continue striking or I can try to run away. The kata doesn't have to include ground and pound, or running away for me to know that they are options. This is fairly obvious stuff which shouldn't need to be included in kata that also have ritual and display elements in them.
Great point
You show a great appreciation for
Culture. Listening to you is like
enjoying a silent sunset.
Wow that's so good to know thank you
Thank you very much. Your channel is considered one of the best channels, in addition to your distinctive style of showing martial arts specially judo. I wish you all success and prosperity. I hope you have a video about combat sambo
I appreciate it
Kata is a catalogue of techniques, not a real fight, that demonstrates key concepts of Judo/jujutsu. If you are interested in Judo as self defense then kata is a must. Randori is just to reinforce those techniques and develop athleticism.
I always felt that the outside/inside leg sweeps & sacrifice throws are best for bjj players.. great video.
Thank you
Also research Sambo, Georgian grip techniques. I have found that they work great against BJJ tackles. You just have to be sure to first step offline first.
Funny that you make a video like this, it touches on some things I've been thinking about recently.
There's a fellow who's done some interesting research into ninjustu and samurai history who downplays the importance of koryu martial arts.
That is to say he thinks that samurai wouldn't have ever used unarmed techniques in combat.
Several things have made it clear to me that the distinction between armed and unarmed martial isn't as clear as many think.
Ur kendo video is a good example, this one is as well now.
We also know from research by HEMA and fencing folks that even european knights would grapple up close.
Everyone wants to act like armed/unarmed/sport/self defense are all completely detached but I think generally effective/high percentage techniques have more crossover than some are willing to admit. Now and historically speaking.
*unarmed martial arts
Thank you for this point
I think this is Antony Cummings you are talking about? Did he actually say that? I've always appreciated his research into actual "ninjutsu" and samurai history, but I'd appreciate a link to where he said that about koryu. If that's actually his assertion, and not that you misunderstood, I think I'd have to unsubscribe from him instantly lol.
Excellent as usual. Thank you Chadi.
I'd agree on Ko Soto Gari. I don't even take Judo but in the past when me and friends might be play fighting, for some reason I've just naturally gravitated to the principles of that move ie; my friend who does muay thai would come in to start his clinch, I then grab on to him and my lead leg wants to hook around the back of his while I push him away.
It's such a natural technique, I don't know why. But I'm not complaining :)
Great video. Happy to see some traditional jujutu getting love as well.
I know I have said this before but I love your Channel
I love this. It gives you experience in the many ranges of fighting. Seems a bit more honest.
I would like to thank you for differentiating for everyone the differances. You are corect with your analysis about the way older generation trained and especially about the efficiency and effectiveness of the atimi Wada thank you
Ladd you outdid yourself. Great presentation. 👊👍
Thank you very much
Very useful training methods. Great video.
Genial!!!! El combate samurai brutal!!! Impresionante!!! Sin armaduras creo que sería un tanto distinto. O caer al suelo en un campo de batalla no es algo que desearías. Buen trabajo!!!
Muchas gracias Mario🙇🏻♂️
Fantastic and informative video, thank you.
🙇🏻♂️
Yes, I was thrown a lot in Kendo, esp. in Chuo Dojo in California, but they stopped doing such brutal throws in training...the beginning video looks reminiscent, it even might have been taken from our dojo...
Brilliant. Thank you.
🙇🏻♂️
I believe part of the reason why people mock the strikes on the recent video is because it was displayed as a single strike in a setting with a compliant partner which may have made people think that a single punch would knock out or kill the opponent.
Obviously if you were fighting you would not strike singly and your partner would not comply, the video just showed the principle in a clear way as it should be in a technical demonstration.
People mocking that do not realize what distinguishes a demonstration from a fight.
Very interesting as always, keep going man 🙏
Thank you JC
Extremely interesting and gives rise to many questions around sportification or modernisation of martial arts. Nowhere do we see anyone go to turtle position. All fighters avoid giving up their back be it to throw or on the ground, something the Gracies emphasised constantly in their teaching. The throws are generally O Soto Gari style, or sweeps, no huge arching throws using the hips, and lots of sacrifice throws. The speed of the attacks also allow us to see where Aikido or Aiki Jiu Jitsu approaches could apply far more.
Thank you for the vey nice content!
Thank you for the video. To me it shows what a developement of human activity MMA is: If you see "battelfield" and "training in the dojo" as as two points at the end of a continous line, MMA appears a bit closer to battlefield than the training, but is still a good distance away from "battlefield. MMA still having clear rules (gloves, certain movement restrictions and most important: a bell and referee ending the fight) it has so many unrealistic movements and practices that seperate it from battle. Best wishes!
This is an older video. This video is the reason I believe sport judo and wrestling is better then sport BJJ. Because it shows the strength of top position for self-defense. All these fighters are fighting to stay on their feet. The moment you guard pull or put emphasis on guard pull is the moment you throw any kind of self defense out the door. The moment you believe you will do something different then what you train for in battle is the moment you lie yourself. Your body will react in the way you train. It’s why you train, for muscle memory. Train your muscles memory right, and you will respond accordingly in a self-defense scenario. Train them wrong and you will pull guard and want to be on the ground in a compromising position because you have fooled body to believe it’s the winning position.
Been training traditional ju jutsu for the past 12 years and started bjj 2 years ago, really wanna try kendo sometime after this!
When I did Kendo we didn't get to do any trips or throws, so if you're expecting that you may be disappointed.
Do it
Kendo comes from the older Gekkiken, which the samurai used as sparing. It combines kenjutsu with jujitsu. Kendo is sport sword fighting but does not allow grappling, striking and some cuts are even against the rules.
@@jjs3890 once again going to show that "sportification" detracts from the effectiveness of a martial art rather than adds to it.
Excellent video compilation
Another great video. Maybe another example why double legs are not the best for the battlefield. Standing throw into a top position draw sword finish. Double leg leaves samurai exposed back while leaving opponents hands free to draw on you and stab.
Yes. There's also some other nuances to consider- that even modern law enforcement consider today, like weapon retention, hand switching, and blind spots.
You don't always want to get pinned to the ground- almost never, because an opponent can either draw their own secondary, or they can pin you down and draw your secondary or v.v.
You almost always want to see where your opponent's hands are- and doing newaza and being touchy feely is almost a death sentence.
Going for the takedown also puts you on the ground, and your opponent's buddy can come and stab you too.
Lots of considerations for RL stuff for sure.
Those guys with the daggers were going at it like sewing machines - utterly terrifying!
Very nice chadi....very nice, i shared with my academy as soon as i saw it
Thank you Bruce
Very nice video. The previous attacks on the strikes often come from misunderstanding. Remember, in battle.(even on the street) you may be striking (at least initially) from a disadvantaged position (not a so called true fighting stance & guard), and.or with things in your hands (such as weapons if at war, of groceries, etc. if not). Also, to strike someone whom has armor, you will have to strike those small openings that are unprotected (such as seems between plates, possibly throat/neck, etc.).
This is true mixed martial arts. Although if the UFC allowed weapons then BJJ on the ground would essentially disappear.
In Russia, they have multiple teams fighting in MMA fights. BJJ seldom does well in those fights.
this probes how the judo comes directly from jujutsu
Great video. Thank you
Awesome video!
You have it right Chadi. Don't worry about the knuckleheads. 😉👍
Great! Thank you!
Hi Chadi another great and informative video, thanks for posting, stay safe ok.
Thank you Stefano
Amazing Video!
Thanks!
🙇🏻♂️
Nice video, very interesting.
Thank you.
Thank you
Please have more battle reenactment videos.Reality training; safely,of course.HEMA has tournaments.Any links?
Sure
This is a very welcome video. I appreciate your taking the time to make it for us. Seeing the recreation here it is easy to imagine
the focus and determination necessary of the common foot soldier when dealing with a desperate combat situation. I believe there were occasions when troops, with few or no weapons, fought and succeeded in taking their enemies weapons away. We are taught that Marshal Yueh Fei instructed peasant conscripts in basic chin-na and shuai jiao. I am certain with his ''life on the line'' a soldier would do his best to survive. Uncommon stress producing uncommon skill. The birth of modern combat arts is soaked in the blood of the past.
All the best.
Laoshr #60
C.Y.K.F.A.
🙇🏻♂️
Great video
Where did you get the samurai videos from? It would be nice if you could cite them in your description at least by posting their links or channels (esp. because you’re using other people’s contents)
If he acquired it from a public post or public channel there's no problem in using anyone elses content, if that was your meaning. Unless it's copywritten, which it's not cause I saw all of this same video footage before on public fakebook pages promoting schools in Japan. Also, Chadi sometimes has fans that send him video footage for his research. So he can't always provide links.
I believe it's called "Samurai kumiuchi"
On a side note, i cut this video that's made up of many clips as parts of one presentation, while also adding commentary, this video is 100% transformative content, legal under fair use law, and 100% mine from idea and concept. If i used someone's video and i just put it there no commentary added, then yes it's someone else's work.
@@Chadi I see, thanks for clarification and the info!
Wonderful & Thanks .
🙇🏻♂️
This is a much more accurate depiction of how JuJutsu was used on the battlefield. Because these reenactments are not choreographed at all. Both people dressed in samurai armor are literally going at it like they’re actually trying to kill each other. In fact they actually do competitions based on this. So half of these reenactments are actually competitions of people literally using real deadly martial arts but with fake weapons so they don’t actually hurt each other. So this is real JuJutsu and Kenjutsu.
The camera was accidentally shaken or the encoding got corrupted at 02:30 because the video incorrectly gets all shaky and disgusting to watch.
Right
I wonder what kinda injuries could occur while falling (in a self sacrificing throw) wearing an armour (and all its accessories) and the weapons (tachi, wakizashi and tanto) on someome likely equipped ...
Un sujet intéressant!
Merci pour ce partage !
One of the biggest problems that I see with modern kendo and HEMA is that they almost purely focus on utilizing their weapons instead of utilizing the weapon AND grappling. I'm pretty sure that a seasoned grappler could just bum rush one of these guys and just grapple fuck them to the point where their weapons are rendered useless.
Definitly a blind-spot
0:37
th-cam.com/video/tOgSOXSjthE/w-d-xo.html
Passing the sword is not an easy task, it is comparable to mma where you can't just initiate a grapple without opening yourself up to attacks. Initiating the grapple must be done with other attacks and feints. I think seasoned grappler can use their experience well after they get accustomed to swordplay and learn the basics of distance and tempo.
@@cbeaudry4646 that video is freakin sick!i was thinking Chadi should see this
WRONG!!! You would just bum-rush right into a knife after first getting past the sword. And remember, lots of Kendo practitioners ALSO train in other styles as well.
@@anonymousshawn9996 we don t have the time machine but apparently there is a huge need to go to wrestling sometimes, because of some modernism, like short weapons not existing. When in all koryus when you don t have a long weapon, you go bast his sword to stab him, and not to wrestle him.....
I could be wrong. but when someone likes wrestling, he sees wrestling everywhere...
Have you looked at tankendo?
Anyone out there can give me an idea of what the average judoka will know after a year of regular weekly training?
That's why ippon ends the match! It represents the death of your opponent.
Its symbolic
100%
Same with a wrestling (even in WWE). 3 seconds is long enough to draw a dagger and stab.
We can see in the video that weapon attacks are lightning fast, so unless we all reach Neo level perception of reality to counter them with empty hands is actually impossible and disastrous. The best way to fight weapons is with weapons (and shield). In the video itself proved that martial art techniques, the take downs only being used in certain circumstances, by means it is not a right away action, weapons fighting first and then when the correct circumstances come then the take down happen. The same principle also applied in unarmed combat (martial art sport), there is no such thing as "martial art techniques don't work", they do work but the fighters often try to use them in wrong circumstances.
100%
Many things that we use today like drills sparring kata etc are seen from today's perspective. The more i read about old methods the more i appreciate them, and many arts evolved for different purposes today (Kyudo is a great example) so saying traditional arts Don't work is inaccurate the more i study.
subscribed, thank you for the great mature content!
There are so many naysayers in martial arts nowadays. MMA has created a fan base (that often aren't practitioners of anything) that can't look past their sport - ground and pounding someone in armor will only break your hand, targeting a precise point in a gap in armor or hitting a vital point will cause damage. People need to grow up and open their minds.
Not just that, the MMA people don't realize that the guys that teach the real stuff are the first ones telling you to learn so you don;t have to use. That's why Karate kid has endured, that lesson was out there.
Hm, the guys at 0:58 do not really use their yari. Weird. They would be better off with just their tanto!?
Hey man! Someone posted this recently on FB and they believe you are saying that Judo was used in the Sengoku era OR during an active, old school scenario.
I think you mean the throws come from there and Judo absorbed them when being formed.
What say you?
There were no judo in the sengoku era
How does one enter into those samurai fights?
Hello Chadi I usually love your videos. i have given you many likes and positive comments in the past, but I have a few issues with this video:
1. it is based on a false presumption. you say this video is "Judo throws from the battlefield" but then you show us simulated encounters to say that it is representative of the battlefield. i am sure those simulations were based on rules to ensure safety. This leads to my second point:
2. I did not see one instance here of the small joint manipulation shown in your prior video. undoubtedly this and grabbing the neck area were the two main means of throwing someone. after all, what more efficient way to effect kuzushi than through pain compliance? i saw no seoinage in this video and i believe that is because the classic martial way would have been too dangerous for this battlefield simulation
This video is called throws from the battlefield, not ALL throws, this is the footage i have, i worked with i got. I simply cannot use a time machine to show how things really were. But we can see a clear pattern of weaponry followed by a clinch, take down and the finish on the ground, much like old Kendo, and mma sequence minus the weapons.
If it gave a fals impression i didn't mean it, but that's what's available.
@@Chadi thank you for your response. I respect that
I can assure you small joint manipulation has no place on any battlefield because you wont have a hope of grabbing a hand thats holding a weapon.Seonage is also a very hard throw to pull off in armour with weapons and striking involved,you hardly ever see it used in mma or no gi or wrestling either.
@@scarred10 Who said anything about trying to grab a hand holding a weapon? by the way, it isn't impossible, but either way no on said that
Great video will you do 1 on kali
Those reenactments put the samurai combat into realistic perspective, we got too much of Hollywood's zen drinking tea peacefully, then one cut death movies. This way you can see how vicious combat was and is ...
Can you do a video on imanari roll
When i know more about it
@@Chadi 👍
I am mma fighter and you are my judo coach ❤❤
I like this. It reminds me of european medieval swordplay and ringen am schwert.
Nice CHADI!!
Thank you
Why not? People mock Aikido / Daito all the time. And it is derived from the same body of jujutsu techniques. Uses the same strikes, locks etc. Maybe it’s the man-buns?
If they spar and do kata, what's the problem?
@@Chadi man-buns.
@@Chadi actually it’s the sparing aspect. There is no active resistance in either on the part of uke. There are good reasons for this in terms of locks and throws ( especially throws using locks) for safety sake. But from the perspective of combat sports the optics are bad. ( you realize I’m being very generous here on the part of these two)
I can’t speak for Aikido. It is an samurai influenced art that really went a different direction on the principles of combat than Diato and other jujitsu systems. Diato Ryu and most of the jujitsu schools used their techniques in actual combat for centuries. Aikido was created almost 100 years after the samurai were abolished. Jujitsu schools used to spar and have contest matches but severe injuries and deaths were allowed. After Ythey we’re only allowed to train katas.
@@jjs3890 you should look into the connection between Daito and Aikido.
My teacher explained 'sutemi' throws this way. It's in the spirit of sacrificing your life to kill another. On a muddy battlefield, slippery with blood and other bodily fluids, clinching at close quarters would probably end up on the ground. If you spent too long grappling you would end up stabbed in the gaps of your armour by the yari wielding peasants on the opposing side. If you went down you needed to finish it quickly to survive. A 1 in 3 chance of survival and even then you might die of secondary infection or maiming afterwards. The reenactment footage gives the beginning of the idea of this, now add mud, dead and dying men and horses, sharp trip hazards, noise, smoke etc... War is rarely 1 on 1, never 'fair' and always nasty and ugly.
Looks exhausting.
Amazing
Thank you
Yawara No Kumiuchi
My answer is Gracie. I'm like all the way in or all the way out.
Meanwhile reenactors in America can't even run
No striking on the groin? That's exactly what Royce did to Shamrock before he took him down lol.
Most interesting.
Indeed
0:38,0:50,1:06,5:18
Kinda cool but this stuff is all just another form of play. This doesn't look any more like what a real battle might have been like than any Samurai movie or anime. It might fit your conception of what it might look like, but you have no idea because you were never on that battlefield.
❤❤❤❤😊😊
❤
🤙🏿🤙🏿🤙🏿🤙🏿🤙🏿🤙🏿🤙🏿🤙🏿
The Royce takedown was the most cowardly, dishonorable sh*t in MMA history. He had just knee'd Shamrock in the groin. Shamrock is standing there helpless with both hands on his crotch and Royce takes him down and pounds him out while the clueless (or bribed) referee fails to notice what's happening.
Grotesque example to use for your otherwise great video.
The knee in the ground was dishonorable. Nothing wrong with the takedown itself though.
Gracies are shady af.
👌🏿🙏🏿