Why I-35 splits into two branches
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 ก.ย. 2024
- In this video I will discuss why I-35 splits into two branches in Minneapolis & St Paul, and Dallas & Fort Worth
If I missed anything or got anything wrong please let me know in the comments
#minnesota #texas #interstate35 #minneapolis #stpaulmn #fortworth #dallas #interstate #highway
I-35W in Texas is actually carried on the books as a 3-digit Interstate (I-235, IIRC) but is signed I-35W “for the convenience of the motoring public.” At least that was the case when I worked for the Planning Survey Division of the Texas Highway Department (as it was known then) back in the late ‘60s/early ‘70s. Milepost numbers are continuous on I-35 and I-35E; I-35W is numbered separately.
Interesting!
That makes sense based off the mileage aspect.
I'm sure it is a similar situation with the 35 split in Minneapolis/St. Paul.
@@dhinton1Yup, I-35's mileposts and exit numbers go up 35E here too. 35W's mileposts start from zero where it branches off.
Other Interstates include I-69, where it literally splits to I-69W, I-69E, and I-69C in Texas 💀 Kinda crazy considering its number... Also, was the driving in this video done by you?
yea I-69 is pretty crazy, I might make a video on it in the future, also I was not the one driving but I recorded the footage
I-69's southern segments are wild ... but will make sense whenever the WHOLE roadway is done ... cuz then the interstate will have FOUR separate ports of entry (three for Mexico, one for Canada)
If I recall correctly, Interstate 69 will be signed continuously with Interstate 69W and the others will have their own mileposts and exit numbers. I could be wrong though. Interstate 14 will also be split into I-14S and I-14N with one branch ending on I-20 and the other branch ending on I-10. Interstate 27 when finished will be split into I-27E and I-27W in Texas with one branch serving Big Springs and the other serving Odessa, if I recall correctly. They split and then rejoin again like I-35E and I-35W. There is also a plan for an I-27N in Colorado.
There were some spurs or loops that were originally suffixed, but quite a few 3-digit Interstates were numbered that way originally. Some suffixed interstates became 2-digit interstates, like I-80S in between Big Springs, NE and Denver becoming the (western) I-76. What I've always heard about I-35 is that St. Paul and Fort Worth didn't want to be marked as "lesser than" their bigger counterparts of Minneapolis and Dallas. So they opposed having their split interstates redesignated as 3-digit loops of I-35, because they wanted the prestige of the "mainline" in their cities.
I'm not as familiar with DFW, but I-35W through Minneapolis is unquestionably the better way to go for anyone (especially truckers) crossing the Twin Cities. Even though the exits on I-35E are numbered as if it's the mainline, there were a lot of concessions made to local St. Paul interests in terms of lower speed limits and sharp curves to go around neighborhoods instead of razing them all to the ground.
great to know! thanks!
I would pin your comment but youtube isn’t letting me
**Correction**
not all all spurs, beltways, and bypasses were originally suffixed, but there were still many that were
Indeed! Wikipedia and the AARoads wiki both have a good list of them ("List of suffixed Interstate Highways").
There've even been a few letter-suffixed 3-digit interstates:
- *I-180N in Boise ID.* Renumbered I-184 when the Oregon-Idaho-Utah I-80N was renumbered to I-84.
- *I-480N near Cleveland OH.* A 2-mile spur, signed only on mile markers. Regular signs treat it as long ramps to I-480 west and I-271 north.
- *I-495X near Washington DC.* A "hidden" highway dept designation for Cabin John Parkway in Maryland.
- *I-895A and B near Baltimore MD.* "Hidden" designations for a couple miles of connecting spurs to I-895, I-695, I-97, and State Highway 2 in Maryland. Signed as ramps to its connecting highways. (Most it could've reasonably been numbered as an extension of I-97, but eh. 🤷♂)
Simple, it’s 2 metro areas that have 2 principle cities and neither Saint Paul nor Fort Worth wanted to be the “bypass” route. I like the E/W splits.
And based off mileage, Minneapolis is actually the bypass
agreed .... it works for THESE TWO instances cuz the cities are big enough (population-wise) to warrant it.
@@Micg51as is Fort Worth ... but that was gonna hafta be the case in both splits cuz the mileage wasn't gonna be identical.
Having !-35 E &W in Mnpls/St. Paul makes sense. It's nice to have a beltway, and also nice to have another route that sorta shoots right through the guts of both cities. The Twin Cities freeway system makes a lot more sense than most of them do. I don't live there, but travel there fairly often and use both, depending on time of day and my target destination.
The New Jersey Turnpike is interesting because part of it splits into east and west spurs but both spurs keep the I-95 designation
I didn’t know that! Interesting!
The western spur is technically I-95W (and NJDOT considers it as that for their internal purposes), but it is signed as I-95.
Mainline I-95 follows the eastern spur.
@@dhinton1 They couldn't just have a spur route assigned to it, such as 195, 395, 595, 795 or 995?
BTW, I-35 isn't the only suffix route out there. Not including the I-69E/C/W routes. There is an Interstate 480N that is a spur route of I-480. It is mostly unsigned (the mile markers have I-480N as well as the exit ramp description signs). Apparently, it must have been too much trouble to replace that short spur with US-422.
On the subject of Interstate 95, the western spur definitely should have a 3-digit number. Since Interstate 895 in the Bronx was decommissioned and turned into NY 895, that number is available. Why not use it? There also seems to be a resistance to giving I-95 the highest numbered spur route, Interstate 995. I-97 is way too short and doesn’t deserve to have a two digit number. It should have been I-995. The Center Leg Freeway in Washington DC could have this number as well if I-97 must remain a two digit route. The CLF is about to receive the I-195 number which is too close to I-195 in Baltimore. Two I-195 highways too close together is a mistake. Anyhow, the next I-95 spur (not loop or connector) in Florida, North Carolina, and Maryland will have to be numbered I-995. I can’t wait to see it happen! Or does I-90 have to have the highest numbered spur route?
@@ki5aok i assume the Turnpike COULD have, but ... if I'm not mistaken ... the turnpike itself predates I-95, so that split was there long before I-95 was placed on.
and my guess is that the Turnpike folk didn't want to spur one of the roadways. or go 95E/95W on the roadway signage.
Good video
Excellent detailed video
thanks, there were some things that i missed though
These branches make a lot of sense. It communicates that both are mainline routes. A spur, bypass, or loop would be misleading. As others have brought up, I think I-69E, I-69C, and I-69W follow this rule well.
Does anyone have ideas of what other cities should or could have branches in this way?
I used to think Raleigh should have a North-South interstate, perhaps I-95W. I don't think the lack of a mainline highway has hurt Raleigh. Its just close enough to I-95 and I-85.
I always just assumed the idea behind it was to ease congestion
It should really have only one split. I-35E in Minnesota should get three digit treatment since it's has parkway status in parts.
oddly, despite I-35W going through a bigger city and being a bigger freeway, I-35W is on the exit while I-35E isn’t
they'd never give the eastern split a 3-digit cuz that goes through the state capital city.
I agree that the freeway has parkway treatment, but that's just the reality of the matter.
It was a political expediency, as technically, I-35W in TX is I-235, but Fort Worth and vicinity refuse to play "second fiddle" to Dallas et al. Likewise the "rivalry" between Minneapolis and St. Paul (the latter being the ACTUAL MN capital), indeed, the naming of their major sports teams as "Minnesota" has proved to be a good way to resolve such rivalry.
for the I-69 splits in Texas .... the simple explanation: once I-69 is completely built (pretty sure it's just within the state), the I-69E/W/C designations will be changed to whatever number TxDOT assigned for them. I feel like 69E is proper 69 .....
What if Texas and Minnesota collectively lobbied AASHTO to utilize Interstate 33 to replace Interstate 35W? A one or two-digit interstate can have duplicate discontinuous segments if they're not in the same state, and it would allow for none of these four cities to be "bypassed".
I doubt they’d use the I-33 designation for such a short distance
@GeographyTrain Perhaps, but there are already nine primary interstates (excluding I-2 and I-11) with a similar or shorter length than the 85-mile long I-35W segment in Texas. Heck, there are three highways (not including I-11) shorter than the 42-mile long I-35W segment in Minnesota.
@@kaziu312 true, but there are very few interstates with a length that short that don’t have plans to be expanded
I really like your idea here. I figured they went I-35W and I-35E so that one of the two cities wouldn't feel like it got the lesser feeling three-digit number. Yet, at this point there are so many signs and businesses that adopt those highway names that I'm sure most people would prefer it remain as it is now.
In these two cases, the answer is even simpler: politics. The rivalries between the Twin Cities and the Metroplex demanded both have an I-35. Also, I-80 was I-80N; the Pennsylvania Turnpike was I-80S in the 50's and early 60's. There were others: I-80 and I-80S in Colorado; I-80 and I-80N in Idaho; I-15 and I-15W, also in Idaho (and yes, 15W and 80N did meet, they're now I-84 and I-86); I-5E and I-5W in the San Francisco Bay Area. Most got new designations in the 1960's and 70's. And you'll have lots of fun explaining as Texas designates the new I-69E, I-69C and I-69W between the Rio Grande and Houston. The states still have the right of designation; the Feds usually don't interfere.
A lot of US highways have N/S or E/W suffixes. Why did AASHTO do this for interstates but not for US highways?
In Tennessee, for example, we have US-31E and US-31W in Nashville, US-11E and US-11W in Knoxville, US-70N and US-70S in Nashville, and US-25E and US-25W in East Tennesse.
And probably many more. And this is just one state.
(Also for funsies we have "31A" and "41A" -- "A" for alternative -- that parallels US 31 and US 41).
Also as someone who frequently drove I-35 in Texas (before I moved to Tennessee) I can definitely confirm some occasional confusion. I think I got in 35E going to Dallas a couple of times when I meant to get on 35W going to Arlington and Fort Worth.
I haven’t looked into it, I do think its weird that AASHTO didn’t change the designation for US Highways. I might make a future video on this if it’s interesting.
@@texasyojimbowe have US Alt-90 in Texas as well. Used it to get back into Houston after hurricane Rita since I10 was closed. No one really calls it that in Houston even though it’s signed Alt90 all over the place lol.
We have State Routes 14U and 86S in California. I know these are not U.S. Routes, but still, they're quite the novelties.
I'd hafta look it up .... but my guess is because the US highways weren't control-access roadways, the removal of the suffixes wasn't seen as a necessity. plus, most of them predate the interstate system, and folk don't like change 😂
I am wondering why I-35 didn't just go between Dallas and Ft Worth, and go between Minneapolis and St. Paul? I realize that Eugene and Springfield are not as large as either of the four split cities, but I-5 was built in such a way as to go between the two and have a spur route that drops close into each downtown. Mainline I-5 drivers don't need to cut through either downtown. I suppose that I-35 splits are the extreme opposite of what Eisenhower was sold as the idea for what would become the Interstate highway system. There is no way that these splits increase the efficiency of the Interstate highway, they are only good at dividing established neighborhoods and pushing out those the elite no longer wanted.
I’d assume if that was the case, I-35 wouldn’t directly serve any city which I don’t think they would want, especially because the branches are important routes through both cities which many people use to commute
and I also believe that the cities COULD not build I-35 to split them down the middle like that back then. most of the older interstates were built over old US highways.
I 80n became I 84 rather than a 3 digit
They should bring back suffix
To answer your question, i35e means east and i35w means west…..
obviously
I-215 in California used to be I-15E and the current I-15 was I-15W, i don't believe either of these actually were finished enough to be fully signed and neither were fully completed with these designations, as once they were fully built and opened the current numbers were already applied
yup .... I-215 was the "old" I-15 before I-15's current alignment was completed.
and part of the reason that I-215 has its current alignment south of I-10 is bcuz I-15 originally ended at I-10. CALTRANS got I-15 pushed south to San Diego.
@@dhinton1 oh yeah that too before california wanted to extend it past san bernardino
If you’re going with “they’re large cities” you should probably find a better example than Washington and Baltimore to compare it to.
Looking back I agree, however I used those cities as an example because they’re core cities of different metropolitan areas while for MSP and DFW they have 2 large core cities in the same metropolitan area
Baltimore and Washington are in the same core metropolitan area. It ranks the third largest combined statistical area In the country. They pretty much share the same suburbs. I think the 70S and 70N should be reinstated because I-270 doesn’t return back to its parent route. Or maybe I-270 should have been called I-70 instead, where it would have ended with another interstate on its east end like it does on its west end instead of a sorry Park and Ride.
Ok but why was it changed from I-80N to I-84 instead of something like I-180? Was it too long to be considered a spur?
certain interstates were redesigned into 2 digit interstates, likely due to their length
Neither wanted to be concerned the bypass
...easier could be change the number for that part.
It’s a video
thats crazy
and yet Texas is building I-69S, I-69E, and I-69C (central)...
I always wondered why it split in Dallas and MSP but not Kansas City and Kansas City... instead we got 435... 🤷🏼♂
I would assume the reason that Kansas City didn’t get the split is because Kansas City, Missouri is 3 times larger than Kansas City, Kansas
I-435 is a complete loop around both Kansas Citys. This is completely different than the two I-35Es and I-35Ws.
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@@GeographyTrain:3
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