Airfoil on a Drone?! - Aerodynamic Race Kwad - Is it faster?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ย. 2024
- Airplanes have airfoils that provide lift to keep them in the air. But drones use purely thrust to keep themselves up. What if that wasn’t the case though?
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I'm actually a drone beginner and learning from the DJI Mini 2. Very cool to know about these stuff.
Interesting stuff! Too bad I have no skills at all when it comes to building drones, well at least there's the DJI FPV for me.
Funny thing is the DJI fpv does employ an air foil design with its arms. They are a slight tear drop rotated so that they are most effective at a typical angle of attack.
Similar to a design I had about 7 years ago but never got around to making it. Good to see this happening peeps.
7 years ago
Is the airfoil profile on the bottom part of the ring the opposit of the upper one? If not, the could cancel each other out - or not?
The ring foil is an existing, tested, design. The airfoil mostly just decreases the friction and the angle of attack provides the majority of the lift. To be practical, I'm guessing, it would need a long foil and a much lighter structure. It's probably only fast because of the extreme camera angle.
Drib said it's even all around. I think he just printed the same arc twice and glued them together
You guys have something here!! Add small servo controlled aileron and elevators on the cross members to use as fine pitch steering at higher speeds. In this mode all 4 motors provide equal forward thrust keeping the airfoil from stalling and creating the twitching you are experiencing. This will be a fun full scale model in 10 years I bet
A tip to Drib and RedCat; make the cross members such that the prop blast goes through its own channel. You would get a better ducting effect by turning the whole ring assembly 45 degrees in any direction.
Interesting. Try with a sort of wings instead of ring foil.
The drone with wings should have a little bit of lift by itself when it is thrown in the air without spinning motors.
Interesting, I have considered it to put this in Racing quad, Why don't you tune as Vtol. I think it helps to control, I would like to see it has lift in plane mode when throtle input are low position.
Nice 1 guys
Cool idea, I’d like to see more attempts at this. Love that HDZero.
you have to print horn frame to fly horizontal
It's not that far off from the old quadshot VTOL concept that has been floating around for a long time just with a ring shaped airfoil instead of a traditional wing.
I Guess the ring shape is intended to avoid the pilot having to keep too close an eye on the yaw (roll relative to the wing) attitude to keep the wing level but it seems quite likely a typical wing with a bit more span might be better suited to give the flight time and speed boost you guys seem to be looking for.
I've been looking into setting up a very small fpv flying wing and finding that small ESCs are basically only available as 4in1 which makes it seem rather attrective to build a tiny quadshot wing/quad hybrid thingy from whoop/toothpick components and a small foam flying wing.
So basically comming at a similar idea from the other side of the spectrum since quad stuff is just where all the nice small components are xD
언제나 즐겁구나 너희들은 부럽다.😉👍🏻🇰🇷🇰🇷
This is totally off topic, but can you guys create a Rescue Drone? Would be very interested in that lol so i dont have a fear of trees anymore
I thought you were going to fly it over a 3km course.. That's the only way to test if it makes a difference. Also, fly it like a plane, keeping the wing working, not a quad, which would stall the wing all the time .. please try again, I use a drone for large distance photography and this answer would help me
Does it really count as an airfoil if it is symmetrical? I don't know how making that giant ring into an airfoil helps with lift. Still fun to watch though.
1960's all over again
Convair Model 49 , Coleocopter, etc.
wel i love the innovation thoughts. But why not make a drone /plane. 2wings 2 motors or a third just for trust. 2 motors can turn with the wings...
Huuu saludos 🖖 🤩👍👍👍
needs more cone shape
Looks like a stupid hybrid between fixed wing and cinewhoop. Fun to watch nevertheless!
That airfoil will add nothing but drag, what you are feeling is not lift at all it is the air being directed in one direction.
Maybe if you made the airfoil asymmetrical, right now it generate up down and side forces... meaning you just generate drag.
Why not... land when the battery voltage gets low... No idea why on earth you don't have battery voltage on the OSD. It's pretty much the most critical part of the entire OSD.
It's an airfoil, it only lifts when moving forward. Any turning and it's an air brake.
redcat, the company that brought us drone-id 😞
You goofs put the CoG behind the prop line. Mass plays a big role in this
Could you have made it any heavier 🤣
4s motors on a 6s humm now wonder it was fast lol
Hi
how can you afford to kill so may lipos
use it as a plane, that has also the drone quad properties, not as a drone
its a vtol plane firstly, secondly a drone quad
dont tilt down the camera, have it like in a plane, directly to front, have a secondary camera, for down, its not meant to be flown in the drone tilt mode, keep it as a plane
its like saying wings dont matter
hmmmmmm 🤔 th-cam.com/video/wABg5nVsi3M/w-d-xo.html
If you could get the airfoil to automatically adjust according to angle around that… and a tune. Would be better. :)
but you will need servos and mechanical mechanisms for that and they add to much weight and not worth after all
In my opinion a circular airfoil is pointless. It doesn't provide any lift on the sides and just adds a lot of dead weight. Perhaps a wing style airfoil would work but I believe It would be closer to a vtol plane with four motors than a quad.
@@CricketyChris I circular airfoil provides lift in all directions outward from it's center point. Lift doesn't necessarily mean up in elevation. It's a bit like a spinning bicycle tire stays stable from centrifugal force, but in this case the outward energy comes from the airfoil rather than spinning. I believe in this case it's the sudden direction changes that stall some portions of the wing while speeding up others depending on orientation of the air flow. This causes cavitation and turbulence over the wing making it difficult to control.
@@hots2215 If they have spare C they could use bimetallic strips to warp the wing.
With careful planning you could likely do it with one servo.
One horizontal 'Wing' would work better. With the orientation of this you have one top airfoil at roughly 45 degrees aoa and another at -45 aoa (If you pitch the drone 45 degrees to move forward). The top, positive airfoil is likely stalling and the bottom negative aoa airfoil is 100% in stall. This creates more drag and probably makes it all around worse. A wing mounted 45 degrees would probably net the best efficiency for how the drone flies.
Yup. See the Foxtech H-Wing for an example. Pretty good flying time.
Hehe, this thing looks awesome,
greetings team #bckflp
weight... how much does that airfoil weight ?
how about if it was foam...
What they're playing with is a rudimentary Ducted fan. However rather than a single Duct for each prop, they've opt'd for a single larger Duct for the entire Quad. This will be much easier to print and stronger than individual Ducts.
That being said, the lift gained will be marginal but the drag will be significant for anything other than 100% pitched over. Hence why the battery was dead so quickly... Sure they were fast but they over drew the LiPo doing it.
Only gain from this is that some the prop wash is reduced but only so long as the Quad is fully pitched over.
Edit: Simple Airfoils over the arms would have better lift and less drag.
Brilliant minds you have! I only fly Mavic drones and absolutely enjoy them but respect to you guys who are great at this!
Any lift generated by the top airfoil, is negated by the upside down airfoil on bottom dragging it down. That's if either is even generating anything given their angle of attack.
You'd probably be better off attaching a wing at a 45º angle, set your camera at 45º, then cruise with the horizon in the middle. Basically just set camera and wing angle the same and cruise.
It's a symmetrical airfoil like an airobatic airplane.
@@alistairclark6814 I don't recall any claim in the video that it's symmetrical and there's no clear views of the inside surface to definitively confirm that. So with that assumption, the second sentence of my statement comes into play..."That's if either is even generating anything given their angle of attack."
You guys went to too great of an extreme as your first step, and with no OSD couldn't really gain any objective data.
It was certainly producing lift, but it was a very large airfoil and lift = drag, so it was draggier than the stock quad thus pulling higher
current.
There have been a number of vertical arm quads over the years, and in this scenario the net drag in forward flight is lower (reducing forward cross sectional area), and it definitely produces *some* lift in forward flight. The easiest way to see it actually glide is to go up high, point the camera straight down (assuming healthy up camera angle), and cut the throttle.
A regular horizontal arm'ed quad will fall roughly straight down, while the vertical armed quad will track forward like a skydiver (not wingsuit level, but definitely forward). It actually makes it quite difficult to do cliff and building dives because it always wants to track away from the vertical surface. I have videos demonstrating this. To get the proximity effect I'd have to point the camera back into the cliff or just turn 90 degrees and track across the cliff, rather than straight down.
I would think the wing would just serve as an uncontrollable stationary rudder causing turbulence in sudden changes of direction.
maybe you wouldnt have killed 2 batteries if you put on a osd... sigh
Annika b got a lot experience with drag racing quad with airfoil if anything
Change the angle of the ring to be full round horizontal when the drone full speed angle is optional…..
Try carbon fiber box frame better flight characteristics
Why round? Box frames were (are?) really popular for racing outside the US but for some reason never caught on here. I appreciate anyone trying to think outside the box, but it sorta seems like you’re trying to reinventing it…
Roto Riot, if you have a problem with 3D drawing, I can prepare a complete element for fun, ready for printing, you will not need glue, adhesive tape, etc. greetings😎
Do you mean quad? If you’re talking about a quad then talk about a quad.
Drone is a general term for UAV’s just so you know.
this is a horrible design. the fact that the drones airfoil is symmetrical around an axis instead of a plane means that all your lift created from airflow over the wing is cancelling itself out because when flying horizontal the bottom edge might produce positive lift but the top will produce a negative one. so you are creating lift and therefore a lot of drag but all you feel is the drag. youre just creating lift through the thrust and some air getting reflected off of the airfoil when colliding at an angle. you should just build a short winged plane with a moon lander style landing gear at the empennage. also if you position your wings right you can create lift even without flying forwards but just from the difference of airflow between the top and bottom of the linear (not circular) airfoil you shoulve built.
It's j ust like the DJI FPV when the camera angle is at 45°. It's obvious that the throttle will push it to 140km/h
I understand what he is trying to do... but perhaps make a 3" with the props inside the foil, and have the foil just a little larger.. but good stuff.
I think you mean aerofoil, LOL
Look up Xcraft, asshole company from my experience but this was designed off of an airfoil design
Why didn't you install a GPS module to determine the speed? All my freestyle and race drones have one. I wouldn't miss it anymore.
Everything is very interesting about this robotic device I would recommend losing the hot glue applying it with a thinner aluminum frame and a thinner 3-D printed mouth around the motors for fastest speed an easier controlle 😎👌🏽 luv keep up the great job
Hi, I just received the message and I’m replying back to the message
These guys are confusing thrust with lift and would be better off with a quad copter attached to the leading edge of a huge circular wing as opposed to the current cylindrical setup. 🤔
Lipo is definitely too small 😆
That shape will never work. I think it should have flat wings that are always kept horizontal by servos
ha rotor riot i found the ecoii motor are real amp hungry
my 7" does a 2200mah 45c in 2mins and puffs it.
You guys must have seen my prototype fins that I posted on Facebook a while back
What was the weight difference between the two crafts?
Looks awesome. Should work.
I enjoy this experiment!!! 😅 🙌
Put FPV camera on a servo for adjustable uptilt. Put two air foils spanning between front motors and rear motors on a pair of servos that match camera angle. Let the air foils go to 65 degrees tilt for maximum speed run versus around 15 degrees for lower speeds.
Might see the lift off throttle glide then.
Heck. Ditch one servo entirely for camera and mount the camera into the airfoil of the front wing. As that air foil changes pitch yhe camera will automatically adjust to match needed angle of attack.
This is just a wierd ducted fan, shit design
look like 4S kv motor
Y'all should check out the old xCraft X PlusOne platform for some inspiration. The original design didn't fly well because it really needs control surfaces in addition to the quad layout for predictable control. INAV can't mix something that complex but I think it's doable in Ardupilot if you can find a compatible FC with 4 motors and 4 servos timers. Maybe a modern take on a 1 motor/4 servo VTOL setup similar to a UMX Hyper Taxi could be interesting!
I want to make one
having best of airfoil on quad would be 2 wings like f1 cars at front and the back...
you have to install the wing in a way you get right aoa when you go ahead depending on your fly angle...
and find the cg of the wings and do it too....
but after all, you should think about it that is it worth adding for it`s extra weight compare to adding the same battery instead...
Try a free wing where the wing pivots around the 18% of cord so when the drone hovers the wing will vertical. Scaled Composites built a UAS with this wing idea.
Do you guys wants to test my latest Aeracer 5 after Thomas BMS? Check the BMS Web vid on testing an earlier proto.
th-cam.com/video/6eXNh58fnzQ/w-d-xo.html
think you gotta see distance traveled at a steady low throttle.
doubt the high rate of change in airspeed is good for it.
like a boat on plane,
optimum efficiency is when it just pops up.
punches are like a boat trying to get on plane.
at some speed the lift to drag ratio is optimized.
I had BetaFPV batteries like those. I think them puffing is some kind of product feature with those. 🤣
This was actually really interesting! I love the outside the box thinking 🙌
That’s so fast when it going bud I would keep playing with it an try iron out battery getting hot as lol 👍👍
I love these Myth Buster episodes! 💯
I love how it rolls on the ground when crashing, might actually make the frame/duct more durable, although the props probably all get destroyed every time? And since shaun said "drones are just a big rock that we put propellers on" could we have that added to list of weird ideas to try out? :) maybe some kind of volcanic rock or low weight building brick if weight is going to be an issue.
Interesting airfoil design and taking it to the limits and failed. Wile wings get long range. I have seen dual wings acting like a quad, Instead of a pusher, motors setup as a puller with two each on the front of tips of a normal wing and that gave it some positive and strange dynamics. Cool to see experiments.
Check out the Bell APT-70. Basically an aerodynamic quad/VTOL plane hybrid. I don't think it has any control surfaces, just the 4 motors.
Drew, you should have a look at Ardupilot as people have done very similar things with that firmware, tail sitting vertical take off. I think by the looks of it rather than speed it would make a good cruiser.
double x-wing it for long range. one x on top of the blades, one x below. Curve the top of the blades high on top, flat on bottom, opposite the camera angle down angle.
Maybe put the 2 rear props on the bottom of the foil so it is tilted more virtually during forward flight.
The shape needs warped so that it is formed so that the air flows at about a 45 ° tilt. Easier to picture in my head. 😋
Cool
next idea: auto aunfolding wings for failsafe like a parachute xD
I love the interesting content you are bringing to the table. Keep it coming!
Awesome collaboration. Inspirational.
Instead of a circle foil make it elliptical. More wing like.
Amazing guys !!! I love the 💡
Awesome idea!
love u guys
Cray cray
Nice
Since it's circular all lift is zeroed by the opposite side... maybe do two wing sections and also point the camera nearly straight up for forward flight. Guess you can do that transitioning in betaflight.
Лучше бы просто приделали крыло к квадрокоптеру.