One of the biggest controversial topics on videogames through its history. As always, you talked about it in an objective and philosophical way that makes you think beyond. Great video! It's interesting to notice how interaction is so powerful, that people today don't even bother (or much less) about violence on other entertainments mediums anymore. Player's agency is powerful.
This is something that when playing games with un human enemies is “good”. Halo, doom, but more showing is Gears of War to me, you see the locust as only human killing monsters, despit the cog (humans) kill more of themselves with weapons of destruction. The game you murder, decapitate, and dismember them because they do it back. They’re not human so it feels okay, both sides see each other as such. Like past wars, it’s easier to kill when you don’t see them as equal
7:56 If you look at the violence in the game Hatred from a mechanical point of view, you could indeed describe is as GTA without colours. Why would this game be any more shocking than the objectives GTA forced upon you after all? You can go on a shooting rampage on civilians in that game whenever you want.
In the more recent titles you aren't really rewarded for doing this - outside of certain missions in GTA V - the game just becomes more and more difficult as you gain wanted levels. The main part of GTA is its free roaming and story missions, this is where you are either given a reason to avoid needles killing (wanted level) or a reason to kill (kill or be killed). 'Hatred' is completely different, all you do is kill people until you've reached the required number; there's a story, but it's just about becoming able to kill even more people. The older GTA titles were closer to this, at least in GTA 1 you would get points from killing cops and ramming cars, but it had a more zany aesthetic to it.
The difference is sadism. Hatred isn't about violence, it's about sadistic violence. It's about reveling in the harm you cause others who do not deserve it. GTA is more about going on a whacky rampage against NPCs that have all the depth of cardboard cutouts and (in GTA IV and earlier) only ever run away from gunfire but otherwise don't react to it much at all. You *can* chase them down, but there's little to no incentive to. Hatred *expects* you to chase people down and to hurt them. Not just to kill them but to make it brutal and painful. That isn't to say I take particular offense to this concept, but I'm aware of what it is.
Yes you can but the difference between Hatred and GTA is that the point of GTA isn’t to commit a genocide. Also a song from GTA didn’t come from a hate-metal neo-nazi band.
>Never heard of Hatred. Besides to do some digging. >Game was temporarily removed from Steam. Makes sense. >Devs refer to nihilistic genocidal mass murderer as “The Hero.” Fuckin wild but okay. >Writer for the game is someone named Herr Warcrimer. Alright, the picture is coming together. >Herr Warcrimer is the frontman for a neo-nazi hate-metal band called Infernal War (formerly Infernal SS) who’s music is in-game and had been dropped from several tours due to fascination with Nazi fascism. Yup. There it is. Knew it had to circle back round to the good ol Third Reich at some point.
As a game loving English teacher: wonderful content! But please, adjust the speed and tempo of your speaking: you speak so fast at times that is hard to distinguish where one sound or word ends and another begins...
But how much of that is real score? Like I know for a fact when the game launched it'd get dozens if not hundreds of 10/10s by people virtue signaling that they stand for freedom of speech by defending the game. (because it was temporarily banned from Steam, and edgy) In reality though, everyone I've seen who actually played the game concluded that the protagonist was too funny to considered inspiring to people, the game itself was no edgier than GTA wanton murder with a grey filter, and most importantly the game itself was rather boring. Even if the Steam score says its a good game, the zeitgeist by everyone who observes the game past day one, when it stopped being controversial, do tend to call it exploitative drivel, that wagered outrage bucks over a fun product, or interesting art piece. At least from what i've seen on anyone who gave it an honest shot, even if they didnt put it that bluntly.
"We made a really boring and generic cover-shooter....No, i-i-it's not 'bad', it's supposed to be that way! Please, buy my game!" Games are violent because people are violent, and we inherently enjoy violence because it asserts dominance. From the days of the Colosseum to now, humanity has always been enamored by bloodshed. This liberal idea that humans are naturally passive, caring, giving, and intrinsically peaceful ignores the last 5,000 years of recorded human history, and psychological evaluations of the human mind. We're omnivores, and hunting and killing is in our blood.
Given the connection between Hatred and Nazi-ism I don’t think Hatred is a critique of violence in video games and is rather a nihilistic power fantasy for skinhead incels.
This was really good, game devs are not appreciated as much as movie directors or writters but are just as good
One of the biggest controversial topics on videogames through its history. As always, you talked about it in an objective and philosophical way that makes you think beyond. Great video!
It's interesting to notice how interaction is so powerful, that people today don't even bother (or much less) about violence on other entertainments mediums anymore. Player's agency is powerful.
I love how you termed it "Tarantino-ism" - that made me smile.
Great to be back for this historically controversial issue in the Ludonarrative space.
Thanks Joey, I appreciate you coming back to watch my videos !
This is something that when playing games with un human enemies is “good”. Halo, doom, but more showing is Gears of War to me, you see the locust as only human killing monsters, despit the cog (humans) kill more of themselves with weapons of destruction. The game you murder, decapitate, and dismember them because they do it back. They’re not human so it feels okay, both sides see each other as such. Like past wars, it’s easier to kill when you don’t see them as equal
A truly special and unique game way deeper than most will realize.
7:56 If you look at the violence in the game Hatred from a mechanical point of view, you could indeed describe is as GTA without colours. Why would this game be any more shocking than the objectives GTA forced upon you after all? You can go on a shooting rampage on civilians in that game whenever you want.
In the more recent titles you aren't really rewarded for doing this - outside of certain missions in GTA V - the game just becomes more and more difficult as you gain wanted levels. The main part of GTA is its free roaming and story missions, this is where you are either given a reason to avoid needles killing (wanted level) or a reason to kill (kill or be killed). 'Hatred' is completely different, all you do is kill people until you've reached the required number; there's a story, but it's just about becoming able to kill even more people.
The older GTA titles were closer to this, at least in GTA 1 you would get points from killing cops and ramming cars, but it had a more zany aesthetic to it.
The difference is sadism. Hatred isn't about violence, it's about sadistic violence. It's about reveling in the harm you cause others who do not deserve it. GTA is more about going on a whacky rampage against NPCs that have all the depth of cardboard cutouts and (in GTA IV and earlier) only ever run away from gunfire but otherwise don't react to it much at all. You *can* chase them down, but there's little to no incentive to. Hatred *expects* you to chase people down and to hurt them. Not just to kill them but to make it brutal and painful.
That isn't to say I take particular offense to this concept, but I'm aware of what it is.
Yes you can but the difference between Hatred and GTA is that the point of GTA isn’t to commit a genocide. Also a song from GTA didn’t come from a hate-metal neo-nazi band.
Aren't the executions and animations in Hatred a lot more brutal, though?
Great video!
Thanks Luciel!
>Never heard of Hatred. Besides to do some digging.
>Game was temporarily removed from Steam. Makes sense.
>Devs refer to nihilistic genocidal mass murderer as “The Hero.” Fuckin wild but okay.
>Writer for the game is someone named Herr Warcrimer. Alright, the picture is coming together.
>Herr Warcrimer is the frontman for a neo-nazi hate-metal band called Infernal War (formerly Infernal SS) who’s music is in-game and had been dropped from several tours due to fascination with Nazi fascism. Yup. There it is. Knew it had to circle back round to the good ol Third Reich at some point.
As a game loving English teacher: wonderful content! But please, adjust the speed and tempo of your speaking: you speak so fast at times that is hard to distinguish where one sound or word ends and another begins...
Thanks Ben! and I appreciate the feedback as well. Delivery is something I am still working on so this is very helpful.
gamers didn't reject Hatred as "exploitative drivel", they gave it a 78% rating on Steam.
But how much of that is real score? Like I know for a fact when the game launched it'd get dozens if not hundreds of 10/10s by people virtue signaling that they stand for freedom of speech by defending the game. (because it was temporarily banned from Steam, and edgy)
In reality though, everyone I've seen who actually played the game concluded that the protagonist was too funny to considered inspiring to people, the game itself was no edgier than GTA wanton murder with a grey filter, and most importantly the game itself was rather boring.
Even if the Steam score says its a good game, the zeitgeist by everyone who observes the game past day one, when it stopped being controversial, do tend to call it exploitative drivel, that wagered outrage bucks over a fun product, or interesting art piece. At least from what i've seen on anyone who gave it an honest shot, even if they didnt put it that bluntly.
@@BaneDane_JB according to the graph on the game's store page, it received more positive reviews as the time went on, not less.
@@arsenii_yavorskyi I wouldn't use Steam reviews as trustworthy since a lot of them could be just jokes or being contrarian just for the sake of it.
@@linhza501 steam reviews reflect opinions of those who bought and played the game.
"We made a really boring and generic cover-shooter....No, i-i-it's not 'bad', it's supposed to be that way! Please, buy my game!"
Games are violent because people are violent, and we inherently enjoy violence because it asserts dominance. From the days of the Colosseum to now, humanity has always been enamored by bloodshed. This liberal idea that humans are naturally passive, caring, giving, and intrinsically peaceful ignores the last 5,000 years of recorded human history, and psychological evaluations of the human mind. We're omnivores, and hunting and killing is in our blood.
Hello Mr. Game.
Given the connection between Hatred and Nazi-ism I don’t think Hatred is a critique of violence in video games and is rather a nihilistic power fantasy for skinhead incels.