There is an essential fact need to be noticed, 60 years before the Korea War, Japanese beat China, Qing dynasty in first Sino-Japanese war. Japanese then took control of the whole peninsula, and during the following half-century Japanese had been using Korea as a basement to invade Manchuria, inner Mongolia, north China step by step, and finally started a total war causing 23 million people in China killed. This memory is so clear. When CCP established their new government and claimed they would defense for the independence, it was definitely not to be accepted that another enemy army appeared in the peninsula across border.
Yeah and it sorta echos what also happened to Russia. It lost the Russo Japanese War in 1905 and also WWI. The latter of which saw Germans invading from the west which happened again in WW2 so it helped play into Stalin's rhetoric of occupying eastern Europe to prevent another land invasion
@@wuhaninstituteofvirology5226 Not really. The Korean civil war had long existed before North Korea made their big offensive. And without outside interference, the DPRK would have won the war in a month, South Korea had lost most of its controlled territory. Then the UN decided to intervene by landing a sh*t ton of troops on Korea. If anything, the Korean war for the rest of the world was initiated by the UN lead by the USA. ######### reply to @Земля : Not really. Military interference means sending military personnel or weapons over to DPRK. Diplomatic or economic support is not considered interference in this context. Also my replies have a tendency to "disappear", a bit frustrating really, had to send this a few times before it went through. update: I'm editing this to my previous comment, so tired of TH-cam's secret police.
well, as David says at the end of video, today people are used to explain CCP's decision in a view of nationalism rather than internationalism. However the latter one might play a more important role that year. Aiding North Korea was considered a duty of global revolution, and a pay back for the support Kim had provided in China civil war.
What's ironic is that while South Korea still hosts large US military bases like Japan, North Korea was so much distrustful of China and demanded withdrawal of entire Chinese forces at 1958. Ideology or not, Geopolitics couldn't afford cordial alliance between North Korea and China.
@@dragosstanciu9866 I mean, given the politics that was happening around that time (a pro-Soviet faction in the KWP is trying to oust Kim), it made sense...
The Ming Empire (the Chinese dynasty) helped Korea defeat Japan. Less than 50 years later, Korea made an alliance with Hou Jin, the enemy of Ming Dynasty. Korea is always hostile to China. B ut, stationing troops in other places is not a way to express friendship.
While western politics is certainly absurd. It pales in comparison to the petty politics of peasant communist revolutionaries who became the most powerful men in the world.
From China's perspective, Korean War needs to be fought because: 1) Korea is a key historical buffer / client state between China, Japan (& US) - this is China's traditional sphere of influence & interest 2) CCP needs to establish legitimacy both domestically & abroad immediately after the Chinese Civil War - Mao has warned the US of Chinese intervention if they cross the 38th parallel, Gen MacArthur ignored such warning and when they crossed into North Korea, they become a major threat to CCP's survival. - Mao has declared earlier in 1949 on Tiananmen Square that "the Chinese people have stood up". He needs to make a clear distinction between the new CCP regime from the perceived corrupt KMT Nationalist government, that the Chinese people will no longer be pushed around by foreign elements. This war has far-reaching consequences for both China & USA, consider China had poorly-supplied army, a total lack of air force and no nuclear deterrent. While the US-led UN expedition force consist of armies from over 20 nations, well-armed with WW2 surplus and led by battle-hardened WW2 commanders, and yet China fought the US-led UN forces to a bloody stalemate. After the Korean War, USA became more cautious in their dealing with China, for example, during the heights of the Vietnam War, Mao warned the US not to cross the 17th parallel, or else China will send another 'Volunteer' expeditionary force like in Korea, and so the US conducted multiple air raids into North Vietnam, but the US army never crossed the 17th parallel into North Vietnam.
Eventually, The CCP commies ended up consuming other people's territory as their regime-in-power zone. Probably, that might give a little bit of credit to why Commie Sinoland has been never welcomed by neighboring Koreans(Even commie N.Koreans hate Sino commies). Like neither Russians ain't received between former commie eastern Europeans.
I mean the united states didn't commit to a full scale war due to support from home. The generals wanted to invade china too. The only reasons the Chinese pushed the us back was because the us forced the military to maintain defensive lines. The reason the Chinese were successfully was the united states had one foot in the other out. China would of been screwed especially considering the united states almost deployed nukes conventionally. But hey look at that you guys won and now North Korea is a striving democracy that leads the world in alot. Jk that would be the south the one then us supported.
Quite importantly Manchuria(the region bordering Korea) was the most industrialised part of China(especially after WW2 ravaged the rest of China but mostly left Manchuria intact) and was vital to the Chinese economy.
@@michaelpelzek8882 I mean, until the 1980s North Korea actually was significantly richer and had higher living standards than the South. It wasn't until the USSR collapsed when the DPRK really started to fall behind the ROK. Just like the South Vietnamese, the South Korean government was widely unpopular and was essentially a dictatorship. The US had no intention of trying to create a strong Korea, and what happened in South's economic miracle in the 90s was completely by chance. China has shown that a similar economic growth can happen even with a Communist government. Also note that the South Korean government today is far from a "striving democracy", it's an imperfect government with many controversies (including the influence of the Moonies/Reunification Church). It's also not true that the US was maintaining defensive lines, at least not at the start. They were aggressively pushing north, since McArthur wanted to completely dismantle the DPRK fast, and this was when the Chinese counterattack stalled their offensive and pushed them back. The coalition troops were then pushed back all the way to the present DMZ where they were finally able to establish defensive positions. The US certainly was not at their peak strength, but that was mainly because post-war sentiment led to large scale budget cuts and scaling down of the military, not because "they had one foot in and the other out". American Anti-War sentiment in the Korean War was actually pretty tame, especially since at first it was seen as a liberation mission.
a korea war vet at work told me "We didn't even fight Koreans, we fought the Chinese" We would have had the same result if we crossed the 17th parallel
@@TheZachary86 Well 2/3 of the Korean War were fought after the Chinese involved so it make sense that he mostly faces Chinese in the field, just like in Nam when most of the fighting is done by the US
Interesting though, if you look at the historical perspective, ever since the ruling government in China selected Beijing as its capital, its had always been very sensitive about the situation in the Korean peninsula. Be that of the Imjin war between the Ming Dynasty and Toyotomi Japan in1592, the first Sino-Japanese war in 1894 and eventually the Korean War in 1950. The sheer proximity of Korea peninsula to the Chinese capitol made it situation ever more complicated.
When the capital of China was Xi'an, China and Japan had a "baijiangkou" /白江口 war (another Korean War). In 663, it had a great impact on Japan. Before the 7th century, Japanese culture was very much like South Korea. After that, Japanese culture began to turn to China.
If the US military stationed in South Korea leaves, I believe China is more willing to support South Korea, as they have clearly lost patience with North Korea
If you understand geography and military affairs, then if you look at the border between China and North Korea, you will know why Chinese leaders of all generations have attached great importance to this area.
My grandpa fought in the Korean war as part of the PVA. He never really talked about it except for one time when I found a few medals hidden in his closet.
My grandfather fought for the UN forces, and he didn't like to talk about the actual fighting. He mostly spoke about his army buddies, local Koreans, and the unit's adopted dog "spare parts". I found 20 years of letters between my grandfather and a South Korean he befriend during the war. My grandfather didn't like the killing, but I believe that his Korean friend and his family having a better quality of life helped him deal with the conflict psychologically.
I had a great great great Uncle who fought in Korea as well but got captured early on and spent the whole war in terrible North Korean POW camps that were mostly ran by the Chinese. He even later participated in the staged 1952 Inter Camp Olympics to make it look like the prisoners were having a fun time. My grandpa who was a child at the time said when our uncle came back in 53 he had a totally different personality because of how quiet he was now and had a big scar on his arm that he didn't wanna talk about. Unfortunately he died when was like 26 due to a lung infection he had contracted while there
@@badluck5647 Understandable why veterans didn't like talking about the fighting. But it's very nice you found those letters. My grandpa does not really have any letters or written documents regarding his time in Korea but I found out he carried a small journal with him. Since my family background came from peasant farmers at that time my grandpa didn't know how to write or read so in his journal he draws and documents his experience. (I say draw but to me it looked a like bunch of scribbles)
@@Spongebrain97 That must be a terrible experience your great great great Uncle has been through. When I was young I always enjoyed having the fan turned on since I didn't like the heat and sweat and we didn't have aircons in the village. Of course I complained about the heat and wanted to cool myself off but my grandpa would always tell me to turn off the fan saying things like it's cold and he doesn't like the cold. I thought he just didn't like the cold because he couldn't handle it but now I would assume the reason he dislikes the cold was probably because of his experience in Korea.
@@Mocha_122 It must have been hard for him to see what North Korea became. I imagine it like my friends who served tours in Afghanistan for the Afghans to have human rights and democracy, and now it seems meaningless as the Taliban oppresses the people into universal poverty.
No mention of the multiple warnings from Chou EnLi to the Americans to not advance American Armies to the Chinese border? No mention of the location of the American Armies and their speed of advance with no sign of them stopping at the border when China attacked entered the war? No mention of the military operations by Taiwan, China and the USA in the Taiwan strait in the years leading up to the Korean War? Major omissions from a Chinese perspective on these events, in my opinion.
The CCP didn’t have diplomatic communications with the US. They transmitted those threats through the Indians, and the US could not confirm whether they were true or not.
@@challenger516 I didn’t know I needed to source stuff in the comments section of a TH-cam video, especially about things that are common knowledge (which doesn’t require citation) but here you go. The CCP had no direct diplomatic relations with the US in 1950. In fact the US had not had diplomats with PRC since 1948 when they were expelled for espionage, or so the excuse went. India took the initiative of being the go between for all the powers involved in the Korean conflict as they were concerned with how this conflict would ultimately affect Asia as a whole, which included themselves due to proximity. India was active at the UN and had diplomatic relations with all the countries involved and attempted repeatedly to prevent the conflict from escalating. The US did not start speaking directly to the Chinese until they began negotiations for a ceasefire in July of 1951. I think that India helped make that happen as well, but I may be wrong about that. It may have been the Soviet Union who coordinated that, but we didn’t exactly have open communications with the USSR either. “As mentioned earlier, India had tried to warn America that Chinese forces would enter the Korean War and was proven correct.” www.brookings.edu/articles/catastrophe-on-the-yalu-americas-intelligence-failure-in-korea/ Further, the CCP had planned to enter the conflict as soon as North Korea invaded South Korea but wasn’t able to mobilize, transport and supply troops fast enough to get involved until much later. But they still intended to intervene which is how they came to have so many troops at the Yalu when McArthur crossed the 38th parallel. repository.lsu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2803&context=gradschool_theses#:~:text=In%20late%20October%201950%2C%20the,commitment%20to%20halt%20communist%20expansion. www.shankariasparliament.com/article/indias-role-in-korean-war-1950-53 muse.jhu.edu/pub/139/article/528257 www.wilsoncenter.org/publication/zhou-enlai-and-chinas-response-to-the-korean-war koreanwarlegacy.org/chapters/north-toward-the-yalu-river/ But yeah, you can trust me bro. Spent a lot of my life doing nothing but reading about the wars of the last century.
While doing a research project for a college class last semester, I learned of a 3x great uncle who I hadn't known of before who fought in the Korean War and was captured pretty early on and was a POW for most of it. The various camps he spent time in in North Korea were actually operated by Chinese troops. During that time he also participated in the staged 1952 InterCamp Olympics which was also set up by Mao. Essentially to put on a show for the world to make it seem like the prisoners were having fun and weren't being mistreated
@@secretbassrigs yeah it's kinda weird because contrary to what most people might think, China doesn't actually really care for North Korea. They're a useful buffer against South Korea and Japan but besides that North Korea is pretty much a tumor that China has to look out for and they're not viewed as friends
Ah I saw you in another comment thread. Here's what I wrote over there: I'm sorry for your loss, but to be fair, the PVA probably wasn't mistreating your uncle (I'm lazy), because that was what the PVA soldiers had to endure as well. Economy wasn't exactly booming back then and military logistics were often cut off due to air raids (thanks a lot USA). The PVA had to live on what little supply they had and they treated the prisoners with a similar standard.
It's the same thing for every big nation - you don't allow for non-friendlies on your border. Even a neutral is a potential enemy tomorrow. So, friendlies or bust! Look what USA did to any neutral or hostile country not on its border, but its entire sphere of influence. You were either hard-core pro-USA, or you were about a month away from a coup, at best. Same thing was done by USSR and later Russia. If they but smelled that you are not pro-USSR/Russian, you got yourself a coup/civil war/invasion. No great power allows a non-friendly state on its border. So yeah, from Chinese standpoint, it was as clear as day. I will point out one thing though - Korea, had there been democracy, would have been a unified communist state, ironically. Communist resistance in Korea was the most active one (as happened to be the case in WWII anywhere in the world, with a few exceptions), so in the eyes of the people, communists were the popular guys. They fought hard, were against any collaboration with the Japanese (which was not the case for the parties of the center and right) and were seen as the furthest option from imperialism and colonialism (which is also the reason why pro-socliast movements were so popular in all newly released colonies in the world) - and thus the most people actually wanted them in the government. Which is why between the end of the WWII and during the first elections held in the territory, the US occupied part clamped down heavily on any pro-socialist or communist they could find. We all know how "democratic" the first governments of the South were. You can say in hindsight that "democratic oppression" was a good thing at the time because it lead to South Korea as we know it today - but if someone has to FORCE you into picking a democracy... is it a democracy? And how would Korea actually look today if it was allowed to choose for itself (and remained unified and communist) - without that huge war and the entire peninsula and its resources being unified under one regime? A large part of north's troubles with food and resources is the fact that it is mover 70% mountainous terrain. When you artificially split natural borders of a country, you can't really argue that one part is worse because of ideology. Countries form as synergy of regions, each feeding of each other's strengths. Imagine USA that was all of a sudden split along the Rockies? There is a great economic power in the west coast, but how well would it function without the fertile plains of the center-east? That was the downfall of many artificially split nations after WWII, which is then used by dishonest intellectuals to force a certain story about one system being better than the other, which ever that one might be. One good example is comparing East and West Germany and saying how West was better because of capitalism. Which is very dishonest. Not only was the east mostly swampy and agrarian part of Germany, it also lost is sole industrial region to Poland (Silesia) and was the most destroyed part of the country. Then someone comes along, points to the poverty of the East Germany and say "See, this is communism, now look at the prosperous West Germany - that's because of capitalism!". No, it is not, it is due to the fact that the entire industry left remained in that part of the country, which was almost 3 times larger as well, and was mostly self-sufficient due to its geography. People regularly tend to forget that when pushing their political ideas. But I digress. While China might have used the "protection of the proletariat" argument for the involvement in Korea, them joining the war would have happened regardless of ideology and government. Same as subjugation of Tibet. If Republican forces won, they would have done absolutely the same. It is not about ideology, it is about achieving and retaining the power status.
Well, hows that policy working out for modern Russia? It turns out if you want to conquer a non friendly country you should at bare minimum be competent enough to do it, unlike Russia.
@@m2heavyindustries378 Turning the neutral/hostile nation to your side does not require you to invade it - that is the last resort. Which, for some reason, was the first choice for Russia. Usually you employ your intelligence services (that is one of the main reasons they exist) to turn the country towards you. CIA and MI6 are basically doing it their entire history of existence. Invasion is generally the last option a country ought to resort to. In Russian case specifically, intelligence agencies failed completely, even on the basic intel gathering job (they didn't know what are they getting into - which is why there was a massive purge one month into the invasion) so it explains to a part why they didn't to to Ukraine what USA and UK do to their client states when they want to keep them in line.
@@thomasying4990 Taking a country means nothing if you can't hold it. Germany took most of Europe, both times - didn't matter that much in the end. Russia can turn the entire Ukraine to glass with nukes if it wants to so yes, they can take it. But either destroying it, or defeating its conventional forces on the battlefield, they can't hold that territory. No one can. USA won over enemy military in both Afghanistan and Iraq - but they still could not hold those lands. And they were smaller and weaker, without outside help. So, if by some miracle Russia achieves its goals with current deployment levels, they can't effectively hold entire Ukraine. Not by a long shot. Unless they resort to mass extermination policies (which is not out of the question for Russia) holding a land of almost 40 million people, devastated by war, is not something any country in the world can do right now for a prolonged period of time, let alone Russia.
Regardless of political view and right or wrong, it amazes me that the people of the Chinese army have fought to a stalemate. Despite lackluster tactics and leadership…
I'm a huge military buff and there is so much cool US equipment that was first fielded in Korea or fielded for the only time in Korea. It was definitely an interesting time period from a technological standpoint
Not much of the stuff was new. The vast majority of the equipment was from WW2. Bulletproof vest, helicopters, and jets were new. Other than that... WW2 equipment.
@@krysten9123 The United States received personnel and assets from the infamous 731 unit and deployed them to the Fort Derrick military base. This is not conspiracy theory.
The propaganda posters are awesome. It's interesting to see the use of traditional characters as simplified versions had not been adopted at that time. One is even written from right to left.
Yeah propaganda from a lot of nations from the 40s and 50s were generally pretty cool. Mexico even has a cool WW2 poster of the Eagle from their flag ripping apart a nazi banner
Chinese is traditionally written vertically from top to bottom, and from right to left. Today, many Chinese books published in Taiwan are still in this format, whereas books in Mainland China tend to be written horizontally from left to right.
Aside from a few Cold War spy novels, this is a period in history I don't know a lot about, so I'm glad I discovered your channel and your detailed videos that delve into all aspects of the times. Speaking of Cold War spy novels, it might make an interesting video examining how authors have written about the era.
A lot of the analysis is very ideological focused I really wish you focus on the Geopolitical factors, PRC at that point has no intention of allowing the US to be so close and use Korea as a staging point after McArther drove all the way close to the Yalu boarders. Looking at how Japan used northern Korea as a staging point for their ambitions in Manchurian they have no intention of letting another power- a global power btw that is quickly becoming a Hegemon all around it- to use the same area to drive west and right on its boarders.
@@timothylowe8327 That's correct Mac Authur invaded Korea after the Japanese had already surrendered. He took over their Military base and announced English as the official language of his military government. They massacred Korean people on Jeju island and tried to cover it up for years. They brought in Syngman who had done absolutely nothing for Korea during the war. They held a phoney election after which Rhee murdered his non communist opponent to celebrate victory and declared himself president of all Korea.
A real thanks for this video:) I found this war really interesting and seeing all the perspectives is perfect ! And here in France there's not much on this war.. so one more time : thank you ! And keep it up ^^
A side note, When I was in school in the late 1990s, the text in my history textbook didn't mention who started the Korean War specifically. Due to the foreign policy change at that time.
Truman proposed the division to Stalin who had no right to accept. Once US Troops came ashore like most places they never leave. Protect American bosses property and banking profits.
Could you create a playlist of your videos based on certain topics? It would be easier to find 'a previous episode' or put a link to episodes that covered related to the matter. I am not necessarily saying this about this video, just in the overall spectrum.
The irony of the US basically building the foundations of the CCP by first, not intervening in the civil war then intervening in the Korean War. For what its worth, the CCP did do well to re establish China
Some new researches in related history showed while Mao knew Kim Il-Sung was preparing an invasion to the South Korea, he didn't know when it would happen. In fact Mao was in Moscow for quite a while to secure the treaty and Stalin's promise on not supporting Kim's unification effort. However a few days later Stalin agreed Kim's request when Kim paid a visit to Moscow conditioned that Mao also agreed. Kim wasn't very happy as he had to at least visit Mao, and notified Mao that Stalin agreed his plan. Therefore CCP was poorly prepared before the Korean War broke. The elite troops of PLA was stationed in Fujian (Fukien) province, just across the Taiwan Strait, wearing summer suits preparing for an amphibian assault to the island. Many of them later wore summer suits entering Korean peninsula and died of hypothermia. Many believe it was Korean war that interrupted Chinese unification, but some historians believe CCP already knew they lacked the necessary equipments to perform an amphibian assault when they failed to secure Kinmen.
@@harukrentz435 It's difficult to say. FDR mistakenly thought KMT securely controlled China during WWII (hence the famous question "who lost China"). After KMT retreated to Taiwan and PRC was founded, the value of helping KMT defend from communist's invasion was debatable given the fall of the Iron Curtain. I am sure the US would definitely consider what USSR under Stalin's control would do had there been a military conflict in Taiwan strait with the US involved. At a time the US even tried to establish some sort of a diplomatic relation with CCP or PRC, but CCP didn't choose to respond to the US because of the ideocracy they held. Basically the US government was reevaluating China policies. I'd say it's too soon for them to make up the mind to intervene a military operation against Taiwan, given that's still the Chinese civil war. Just speculations though, as there isn't "what if" in history.
My grandfather once participated in the Korean War. After his death, my mother gave me a cup (he didn't have a medal). Before CPC joined the Korean War, American planes bombed a small Chinese town on the border between China and North Korea, which made CPC very angry. CPC was unable to get Taiwan in 1950. The Korean War always existed in Chinese textbooks, but it did not exist in movies and TV dramas for a long time.（我的外公曾经参加过朝鲜战争，在他死后，我妈妈把一个纪念杯子（他没有勋章）送给了我。在CPC加入朝鲜战争之前，美国的飞机轰炸了一个在中朝边境的中国小城，这让CPC非常愤怒。CPC没有能力得到台湾在1950。朝鲜战争一直存在在中国的教科书，但是他不存在电影和电视剧很长一段时间。）
@@可爱包-c4v Hi, even lf the US bombed before that, the Communlsts started the war with the CCP help, so they were just gettlng what they were asklng for anyways.
The USA wants to forget about the Korean war so that the USA can repeat other future wars against other countries again and they have done it. China does not want to forget the Korean war so that they will know how to react if it is repeated again by the USA as it has happened with the Vietnam war, Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan and now Ukraine and possibly Taiwan.
I appreciate this channel for bringing the other perspective to the table. It's a rare move these days, but it's the best way to show objectiveness. The example of soldier Qiu being burned alive without making a sound was still in my elementary textbook in this very century. Any war with the "fending off enemies from our border" theme builds into the national identity, at least in my education.
I wouldn't exactly call this "objectiveness" as many of his statements and perspectives are clearly heavily biased. A real balanced debate would involve voices from both sides, which means the Chinese perspective made by actual Chinese people. However TH-cam has a tendency to delete or shadowban such content. It's impossible to have a real conversation here.
@@崔莱 TH-cam is blocked in China and people would be afraid of going against the party line he can already study Chinese sources when making the episode, this is about the Chinese perspective at the time also more so than today.
@@silverdeathgamer2907 Quite the contrary actually, back then the CPC exercised *less* power than they have today, by a pretty huge gap too. They had to walk some very thin lines and public opinion and support was most vital at that time (although it always is and will be important). Such an enormous military endeavor cannot be achieved without massive support from the people, which they had in order to win. What I'm about to point out is very obvious, but for some reason many people just don't seem to realize: the soldiers are the guys with the guns! They have legs, they have transport, they have the guns, *nobody* can make them do *anything* by means of force. *They* needed to support this military campaign and *they* needed to be willing to give their lives for this cause. And they did.
Funny how the west choose to focus on Vietnam instead of Korea while Chinese involvement in the Vietnam war was rarely mentioned in China, people choose to talk about Korea or the Sino-Vietnam war instead.
This is because Chinese support for North Vietnam was minimal. North Vietnam chose to side with USSR in the Sin-Soviet Split, and later China fought a war with Vietnam a few years after the Americans left.
Chinese involvement in north Vietnam provided air defense and secured the supply chain between China and north Vietnam. They did not fight severely against any enemy.
It's great because it never made a staunch pro-U.S. anti-Korean stance. There are a few times where soldiers from both sides come face to face and let each other go on their way because it was never a war people on either sides really wanted.
"On China" by Henry Kissinger is probably one of the most authoritative texts from the Western perspective. Dr. Kissinger basically authored US foreign policy with respect to China for decades, much of which is still very relevant today.
kinda miss the role of Sino-Soviet Treaty of Friendship, Alliance and Mutual Assistance, while Soviet Union did give back Changchun Railway, Port Arthur, and Dalian to China, but there is a clause of mutual defence, where Soviet Union would station troops in northeast China if it come under attack from US. When MacArthur was driving Kim Il-sung to the Chinese border, Joseph Stalin wanted China to host Kim and allow him to exist as an exile government in northeast China. This will expose China's northeast and if the conflict between Kim and US bleeds over, it will trigger the mutual defence clause, and Stalin would take back all the initial concessions he made and take back the Railway, Port Arthur, and Dalian.
Report released by the United Nations: Approximately 260,000 casualties for the US military. Approximately 1.14 million casualties for the South Korean army. Approximately 650,000 casualties for the Chinese army. Approximately 400,000 casualties for the North Korean army. Report released by China: More than 390,000 casualties for the US military. More than 700,000 casualties for the South Korean army. More than 360,000 casualties for the Chinese army. More than 300,000 casualties for the North Korean army. Report released by South Korea: 300,000 casualties for the US military. More than 980,000 casualties for the South Korean army. 700,000 casualties for the Chinese army. 500,000 casualties for North Korea. Report released by the United States: Nearly 160,000 casualties for the US military. Over 1.48 million casualties for the South Korean army. 750,000 casualties for the Chinese army. 650,000 casualties for the North Korean army.
The Chinese PVA saved North Korea at a tremendous cost in lives. The CCP were conscious of the heavy casualties and drain on resources, so when Stalin died it came as an opportunity for peace talks to begin.
Chinese are a wonderful people, I worked in Deng Feng factory Shiyen and stayed in Wuhan and Beijing and all I between and met the most amazing folks, we all suffer under leadership we don't agree with ✌️
I was born in Shiyan, didn’t quite remember seeing any foreign nationals during my time there but heard a lot about them from my grandpa who used to be a director at the assembly plant. Last time I visited was probably 10 years ago (need to go visit again when I can), that place has changed a lot with so many developments compared to what it used to be.
@@davezgy1 Sounds like the very city, I swear we were followed by curious but friendly locals every time we stepped out of the hotel, that huge tower on the main road, and other than a foreign plated Mercedes I too never saw another foreign person. Lovely people Best Wishes from Liverpool UK 🇬🇧
I was expecting a mention of the 2021 Chinese film The Battle at Lake Changjin which is the #1 grossing film all time in China. I watched it not too long ago. It's not a bad film. It's not a great film. There is some nuance and it's hard to say it's a pro war film. Of course it does celebrate the bravery of Chinese troops, but it contrasts that with quiet village scenes when the hero goes back home.
I mean it's about a defected KMT unit being sent to Korea in winter with just summer clothing to act as cannon fodder, eventually they froze to death trying to lay ambush on Americans
“The “fall” of mainland China to communism in 1949 led the United States to suspend diplomatic ties with the PRC” Wild that there was no mention of this. I knew the mutual disdain post WW2 had to have been rooted somewhere (despite working together to contain the Japanese expansion in Asia).
Why did the backward semi-colonial China with almost no industry, after half a century of civil war, World War II and four years of liberation war, "aggress" when the civil war was not even over, and for the sake of "communism" aggression" seeking to take on the world's No. 1 military power? The logic of this video is really weird
Simple: because in American minds, no matter how horrific American behavior is, it’s always “well intentioned” and “fundamentally just”, and America’s adversaries are conveniently enough always “evil and oppressive” or at least, “sinister and greedy”, and therefore they not only don’t have a “right of self-defense”, but in fact, any action they take is “fundamentally offensive and aggressive”, while America’s actions are always “fundamentally defensive”. Yes, I know that American attitudes are delusional and juvenile, but ~95% of Americans actually think like this to some degree or another, and maybe ~5% (at most) are relatively fair-minded and well-informed, and understand that American has been a horrific rogue nation for most of its history, whether domestically or internationally.
Well gee do a thought experiment: if the US had encouraged and supported South Korea in invading North Korea, how would that have been viewed in China? Your neurotic hypersensitivity even to videos which attempt to see things from the Chinese POV is stunning. Not to mention your incredible hypocrisy about "colonialism" given the various occupied territories and captive peoples in the PRC. I bet you live in the West as well
@@OnlineEnglish-wl5rp your neurotic hypersensitivity, right...china originally didn't want to support Korea, same with stalin, but they were forced to intervene after NK was defeated by UN forces. In fact, Zhou Enlai even transmitted a telegram to the Indian embassy, requesting that they tell USA that if they crossed the 38th parallel, then they could expect China to retaliate. Plus, I assume that by 'occupied territories' you're referring to Xinjiang and Tibet, which have literally been under chinese dominion even before half the west existed. Plus, Mao didn't 'encourage and support the koreans', in fact, the main reason why he entered the war (apart from securing the border) was to impress the Soviets, and show that China was a strong power. Before then, he only reluctantly promised NK that they could expect Chinese aid, and didn't help in the initial invasion
They are not ignorant, but deliberate. They want to promote China as the Soviet Union. Because they have already carried out a lot of smear work against the Soviet Union. If China were a CCP, then Americans would naturally develop hostility. This hostility has nothing to do with the facts about China, only with the United States' smear campaign against the Soviet Union.
I think this war resulted in the eternal hostility between the PRC and the USA, despite the détente between them from the 70s to the 90s. As far as the US was concerned this war was a total betrayal as the US entered WW2 a lot influenced by them being sympathetic to China against Japanese aggression, and for the PRC rulers the US will not cease undermining their rule over China. The sad thing is that, as demonstrated by the 70s to 90s détente, there really had been and has been no genuine hostility between the US people and Chinese people.
Japan only roped America into the war as a result of America implementing an oil embargo to starve Imperial Japan's ability to wage war on China. Or as the CPC calls it "Western Imperialism"?
@lati long The US hasn't been a majority "Anglo" in over a hundred years, and the term is only used by anti-American conspiracy theorists who want to link the US with British imperialism. I have never in my life heard that America "attacked the wrong enemy" in WW2 , so your sources are complete nonsense. The closest to that narrative is the idea that the US was only allies with the Soviet Union as long as they had a common enemy.
The US perception of China (under the CCP) was fairly positive up until a couple years ago. That was also at the same time that a lot of international media organisations began to publish articles that didn't pull back the proverbial punches when it came to assessing the CCP's rule over China. The CCP have been painting a bleak picture of the world outside of China for decades, for a long time the language barrier enabled the CCP to influence people in China without any serious repercussions abroad. That is why the Great Translation Movement scares the CCP, they can't hide behind the language barrier anymore and its apparent they've pushed an anti-foreigner rhetoric (in particular anti-Western) ideology for a long time. It's funny really when you think about it - in the US people used to see China as a friendly country, while in China the CCP painted the US as an imperialist power out to drag China back into the Century of Humiliation.
I was born in July 1952, the direct result of my WW2 combat veterans fathers wounded return from Korea Dad served in Europe WW2 then was recalled to Korea. I served in Germany (1976-1979) then Korea (1994-1995)
Mr. Rick, thanks for your father's service!! Because of the sacrifice of men like him, today I can be a Christian, and free man! My deepest rescpects for your father!!!!👍👍👍 Greetings from Brasil!!!!🤗🇧🇷🇺🇸
Respect to you for your service, sir. My father was born in the South and was a refugee during the war. I was born in 85, and went to school in the 8th Army garrison.
The author is painting the Korean War in an needless ideological manner. If you look back at the history of this part of the world, you would have seen that this is just another war where China tried to secure its border. There were four major wars on the Korean peninsular that involves a Chinese state and powers outside of the peninsular, 1. Tang China vs. Japan 663 AD. 2. Ming China vs. Japan 1592 to 1598. 3. Qing China vs. Japan 1894 to 1895. 4. Sino-Japanese war 1938 to 1945. The US in 1950s are just one of the many outsiders trying to grab Korea and set foot at the Chinese door step. No Chinese state would allow that to happen without a fight, the Emperors would not, why would anyone think that the Communist would act any differently? Portraying the Korean War in 1950s through an ideological lens is either a twist to fit propaganda purpose, or an outright ignorance.
The CCP invaded North and South Korea in defense of the brutal North Korean dictatorship that had started the war. North Korea remains today a brutal, bloody dictatorship. South Korea is a prosperous democracy. So don't be surprised when people are "constantly percieving the CCP as the bad guys.
China was not fighting against foreign aggression. They were trying to keep what would amount a puppet state around so they wouldn't have a US ally on their border. Also the CCP are talked about as bad guys because they are.
This topic and timeline is stunning, while this era is hazy. I am very curious about this topic as it’s not stressed/ focused on a lot in history class.
10:48 You framed the Chinese POV as "the idea of a client state as little more than a fig leaf for inperial ambitions". Well, was it? You never actually said what the US was doing there and what their intentions were.
Wow that was some amazing mental gymnastics just in the first 5 minutes of the video, trying to "explain" the video through an anti-communist perspective. No need for those mental flips, just ask yourself what would America do if the Soviet troops in the name of helping a Southern Socialist Mexico, is pushing right up to the Texas border. For a channel that is affiliated to the World War 2 channel, it's certainly a lot more politically motivated.
The Soviet Union consisted of nothing but dictatorships. Mexico during the Soviet era was a democracy (and still is). If Soviets were helping a "Southern Socialist Mexico," by traveling to the Texas border, then undoubtedly the Soviets are supporting a government of dictatorship, invading a democracy, and seeking to overthrow a Democracy. Americans generally like democracy (recall that American volunteers fought against fascists intent on overthrowing Spanish democracy, Americans got rid of the brutal dictatorship of Saddam Hussein in Iraq, replacing him with a democratic government, and nowadays send aid to democratic Ukraine in its fight with the dictator Putin). Moreover, when you come to the military defense of a country (that is, South Korea) invaded by another, you seek not merely to drive out the invaders but to overthrow the government that launched the invasion, *so that this government cannot launch a war of aggression into the future.* Consequently, it is not surprising that United Nations forces got close to the Chinese border during the Korean War.
Historically, Korea is not a buffer zone between China and any other countries, because the only threat thoughout the Chinese history was from Northern China where the nomads live, not from sea. Japan was never a threat to China in history until in 1800s when Japan became abnomarly strong and China was in quick decline. If the US landed in Korea, China will face a huge military base in Korea, which is unacceptable, hence it viewed Korea as a buffer zone.
A more accurate title for this video would be "Korean War from the Communist Party of China Perspective, Interpreted by someone who can't get the name of the party right"
24:49 Not sure where you're getting this information from, but from what I know people are mostly aware of the fact that we fought the Korean War to protect our country first and foremost. Of course we'd much rather not participate, this can be seen from the US's war on Vietnam not too long after, as long as the western powers show basic restraint. Those of us who have spent more time on this period of history tend to agree that the Korean war was the single most vital war in recent history that directly determined the outcome of the Cold War for China. It also brought the US and other western powers to the negotiating table, and secured our position in the UN security council. Thus the importance of this history is far from overstated. If anything, people should be *more* aware of this historical period and its significance. The bad future that Mao had predicted is looming dangerously close, as the newer generations show a significant decline in political participation and voter turnout. Those born in the late 20th century and early 21st century had never experienced the era of foreign threat and economic hardship that their parents and grandparents had to deal with, and thus they feel much less motivated to carry on the work and philosophies of the revolution. I personally see this as the biggest potential weakness we have in the long run, hopefully we can engage more effectively in culture building and historical education in the following decades. ################### replying to : @Officer Pendleton, Raccoon Police Dept. The outcome of the Korean War provided the most important bargaining chip, without it we wouldn't have gained the council seat. Keep in mind that diplomacy doesn't happen over night, before the war the US and its NATO allies were refusing any and all diplomatic communications with China. The Korean War forced them to the negotiating table and shattered the US's military reputation as an "invincible force". Everything is basically starting from 0, and slowly normalizing relations, until finally gaining enough political sway to enter the security council. It takes time for leverage to convert into political sway, and 20 years in diplomacy is really not that long. None of this would have been possible without our successes in the Korean war, it is possibly the single most important factor that lead to the subsequent events. Also my replies have a tendency to "disappear", this is the 12th time I'm sending this (so glad that copy-paste is a thing). If you can't read the full reply because it is gone, just ping me and I'll send again. update: I've given up trying to reply so I'm editing this into my previous comment.
@@崔莱 one thing It did not secure UN Security Council Position That position was given to you in 70s/80s 20 years after Korean War so its not really related
that would not have been possible without the Korean war. international politics is slow and tends to lag behind. the outcome of the Korean war was certainly a vital factor.@@XOFInfantryman
Hope somebody recommend my videos to those who want to learn Chinese. I teach Chinese in humorous way and with cute pictures. Chinese characters still retain their pictographic origins. Knowing what the characters look like originally can help remember them. I’ve spent about 100,000 hours studying English humor and Western culture, and many years studying Chinese culture and jokes. My native language is Chinese.
Despite their are many disagreements between PRC and DPRK but they still have a very close relationship and military alliance (Treaty). The Mutual Aid and Cooperation Friendship Treaty between The People's Republic of China and The Democratic People's Republic of Korea is the only military alliance that PRC ever signed with any country.
Kym and his core founding members of North Korea attended Chinese military school and fought along side of PLA against Japanese+ civil war, they were very cozy with leaderships in China. However, like you said, Beijing was not enthusiastic of the idea supporting military actions of the north; he went to Moscow instead, got the support there, started the war, lost it, China now has to respond. In the end, nothing changed.
It ended the propaganda that the Chinese were just lauderman. Macarthur famously in "a moral raising" speech said, "What are you afraid of a few Chinese laundrymen?" I was another nail in the coffin of Western Imperialist Racial Superiority.
US military invasion of the Korean peninsula threatened the national security of China. Meanwhile at the same time, US navy also invaded the Taiwan Strait in the Southeast and US support the south Vietnam in the South. China has threats from 3 directions. If China did nothing, China may have trouble in 3 directions and it was too dangerous. So China must fight back. To confront enemy in Korea peninsula was the best choice compared to fight in 2 other places. And China in 1950 was not the same country as in 2023. China had nothing at that time, poor, low tech, and no military strength. But China has guts as we do right now. The process of the war was blood bath. I only want to mention one point. During the past all wars joined by US, only the Korean war was rarely mentioned. Why? because US lost the war. But they established a colony called South Korea along with their other colony Japan. China won the war and defended our national security and USA also learned not to mess with Chinese anymore. In our perspective, the war's name is Anti USA Invasion and Help to Defend DPRK War. Our goal is the same as the name.
full of pride and prejudice。A civil war in the same country, you call it an invasion? And if it's all an invasion? Who invaded whom in the American Civil War?
If South Sudan invades Sudan, is that a Civil War, or is it instead one country invading another? The United Nations evidently thought the invasion of South Korea by North Korea was improper, which is why it chose to intervene on the side of South Korea.
@Herman47 You are wrong. It is illegal for the United States to join forces with other countries to send troops. If you don’t believe it, you can take a look at the United Nations’ decision on sending troops this time. The so-called United Nations military is just a skin put on by the United States in order to send troops to beautify it. If it was legal, why didn't the UN troops stop at the 38th parallel? When the so-called United Nations troops can spread the war to the Chinese border, it is already illegal.
Missing in the western narrative about n korean agression is the inconvenient fact that neither the 13:44 north or the south recognized the other as legit. In fact, both sides vowed to liberate the other. That made the war a civil war and American involvement a foreign intervention, albeit at the invitation of one side.
I remember reading a somewhat bizarre article a couple years or so ago where some Korean pop group at a dedication to the Korean war thanked the "brave allied troops for helping defend our country" or something like that, this apparently got Chinese netizens quite riled up as they demanded a "dedication" to the "brave Chinese troops" as well. Which, to give a topical example, feels a bit like asking the Ukrainians to give a dedication to the "brave Russian troops" or something to that effect.
Yes, it involved the ridiculously world-wide popular group BTS. It goes to show that the Chinese youth have no real idea which side the Chinese fought on during the Korean War. Even today, state narrative meant most Chinese seem to think the current conflict in Ukraine was due to a provocation started by the Americans against the Russians. When a Chinese vlogger working in Odessa tried to correct this 'narrative', he was immediately labeled as a traitor in the pay of the CIA.
Except the Chinese did not invade Korea, anymore than the Americans and other UN nations invaded Korea. The chineses like the Americans, come to the assistance of an ally in need, in what was basically a civil war.
I'm pretty sure my grandfather was sent to Korea during the war. I didn't realize this war was such a big deal on the Chinese side though. Thank you for another fascinating video! Stay well out there everybody, and God bless you, friends. ✝️ :)
@@martinfiedler4317 The real invader is the North Korean, China aid NK because of obvious reasons; China’s goal was to keep NK in power, in this case you could say China’s defending NK, they literally said they would not intervene if the UN doesn’t cross the 38th line, how’s that an invader? Obviously you don’t want someone pointing you with a gun in front of your house now isn’t it
@@tc4303 "obvious reasons"? Really? Now THAT is rich! Aiding a criminal aggressor is an "obvious reason" and the UN apparently has to subject itself to this kind of blackmail when dealing with said aggressor. The important facts are that North Korea illegally invaded South Korea in June 1950 and ignored the UN resolution from the same month to immediately cease hostile actions. North Korea clearly was the criminal in that war. And "China", too, by aiding this criminal. Has Beijing ever apologized for the countless UN-soldiers and Korean civilians that had to die due to their behavior? Don't think so!
I didn't like Chaing, as much as I liked a certain warlord or two I say this because, from what I've read, he was a sort of quasi-Socialist. His early ideology, is not really disputed, however, nobody forgets to mention how beautiful his American educated, and Chinese national wife is in the Washington D.C. party scene for ugly people (she wasn't one of them) and touring America in general.
He basically turned most fundings from US government into his family's personal asset. China was in a situation that we could choose from either a bandit who pretends to be a kind man(cpc) or an obvious corrupted warlord(kmt). Chiang was maniac and he always was. Such warlord who born in a wealthy family won't share the same feeling as those starving civilians.
"quasi-Socialist"...what? he literally purged all the leftist members of the KMT immediately when he came into power and allowed generals and officials to embezzle US aid funds while some of their soldiers were literally starving to death.
Chaing was pretty much a fascist in the nationalist-socialist mode. The only reason why he isn't know as such today in the West is because he was "our" fascist.
Despite the effort, this is still a western perspective of Chinese perspective of Korean war - with a lot of unbased assumptions & narritives, which makes this just look like a Wikipedia read-out. In order to improve, you should read (and link) the Chinese documentary on this topic instead of inserting irrelevant footage (as if they increased any credibility). Once you done the research I think any people with a little bit of a unbiased mind/ability to critical think would be able to create a better quality video.
The only thing people forgotten is that Korea never needed to be partitioned and guided towards democracy because they had already achieved that themselves. For years they've resisted Japanese imperialism and had prepared for the day of their independence and Western arrogance ignored all of that. Have us imperialism and its irrational fear of communism not interfered then we wouldn't have a psychotic cult of personality in the North which is a direct consequence of war crimes some of the most brutal war crimes committed by use imperialism causing psychological damage on the people. The People's Republic of Korea was becoming history's first anarcho Christian communist state capitalism ruined that and turned to the South into an autocratic dictatorship the slaughtered tens of thousands of people and the north became hyper paranoid and authoritarian.
To an extent, the korean war to the chinese is similar to the war of 1812 to the Americans. It may not have influenced much in the world but the Chinese thought they fought and survived against a superpower and it justified the CCP. propaganda or not it has some truth to it
In 1993 I knew a Chinese doctor in Zhongshan in Guangdong who had been a Chinese soldier in the Korean War. He told me that from his 13-man squad only he and another man survived the fighting in Korea. The fighting must have been ferocious.
I mean, despite what SK is now, the more you read up Syngman Rhee the more you realize the moral dubiousness of America. Another classic example of Franco and Pinochet, and..... name any anti-communist ultranationalist dictator the US supported during the Cold War, there are plenty to choose from.
@@LibeliumDragonfly Too be fair Kim wasnt better. He was not liked by the other korean communist and he assasinated any communist that was threat to his power. Only reason he became leader of the north is because Soviet forcefully disarmed other communist group.
Victory is not determined by who lost more troops. US likes to pretend it is because their superior technology and reliance on air power ensures a high kill to death ratio, but it’s about who achieved their war goals.
I am Chinese, and everything you say is wrong and absurd. It is more reasonable to explain from a geopolitical perspective, referring to the Cuban missile crisis.
They are not ignorant, but deliberate. And the facts about China have nothing to do with it. They just want China to look like their enemy, the Soviet Union.
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There is an essential fact need to be noticed, 60 years before the Korea War, Japanese beat China, Qing dynasty in first Sino-Japanese war. Japanese then took control of the whole peninsula, and during the following half-century Japanese had been using Korea as a basement to invade Manchuria, inner Mongolia, north China step by step, and finally started a total war causing 23 million people in China killed. This memory is so clear. When CCP established their new government and claimed they would defense for the independence, it was definitely not to be accepted that another enemy army appeared in the peninsula across border.
Yeah and it sorta echos what also happened to Russia. It lost the Russo Japanese War in 1905 and also WWI. The latter of which saw Germans invading from the west which happened again in WW2 so it helped play into Stalin's rhetoric of occupying eastern Europe to prevent another land invasion
Except that the Communlsts started the war.
Hell, 50 yrs before this, fucking Austro-Hungary beat China, in 1900.
@@wuhaninstituteofvirology5226 Not really. The Korean civil war had long existed before North Korea made their big offensive. And without outside interference, the DPRK would have won the war in a month, South Korea had lost most of its controlled territory. Then the UN decided to intervene by landing a sh*t ton of troops on Korea. If anything, the Korean war for the rest of the world was initiated by the UN lead by the USA.
#########
reply to @Земля : Not really. Military interference means sending military personnel or weapons over to DPRK. Diplomatic or economic support is not considered interference in this context.
Also my replies have a tendency to "disappear", a bit frustrating really, had to send this a few times before it went through. update: I'm editing this to my previous comment, so tired of TH-cam's secret police.
well, as David says at the end of video, today people are used to explain CCP's decision in a view of nationalism rather than internationalism. However the latter one might play a more important role that year. Aiding North Korea was considered a duty of global revolution, and a pay back for the support Kim had provided in China civil war.
What's ironic is that while South Korea still hosts large US military bases like Japan, North Korea was so much distrustful of China and demanded withdrawal of entire Chinese forces at 1958. Ideology or not, Geopolitics couldn't afford cordial alliance between North Korea and China.
@@dragosstanciu9866 I mean, given the politics that was happening around that time (a pro-Soviet faction in the KWP is trying to oust Kim), it made sense...
North Koreans are fiercely independent unlike other American dependant neo-colonies
The Ming Empire (the Chinese dynasty) helped Korea defeat Japan. Less than 50 years later, Korea made an alliance with Hou Jin, the enemy of Ming Dynasty. Korea is always hostile to China. B ut, stationing troops in other places is not a way to express friendship.
While western politics is certainly absurd. It pales in comparison to the petty politics of peasant communist revolutionaries who became the most powerful men in the world.
Well that has changed, it seems.
From China's perspective, Korean War needs to be fought because:
1) Korea is a key historical buffer / client state between China, Japan (& US)
- this is China's traditional sphere of influence & interest
2) CCP needs to establish legitimacy both domestically & abroad immediately after the Chinese Civil War
- Mao has warned the US of Chinese intervention if they cross the 38th parallel, Gen MacArthur ignored such warning and when they crossed into North Korea, they become a major threat to CCP's survival.
- Mao has declared earlier in 1949 on Tiananmen Square that "the Chinese people have stood up". He needs to make a clear distinction between the new CCP regime from the perceived corrupt KMT Nationalist government, that the Chinese people will no longer be pushed around by foreign elements.
This war has far-reaching consequences for both China & USA, consider China had poorly-supplied army, a total lack of air force and no nuclear deterrent. While the US-led UN expedition force consist of armies from over 20 nations, well-armed with WW2 surplus and led by battle-hardened WW2 commanders, and yet China fought the US-led UN forces to a bloody stalemate.
After the Korean War, USA became more cautious in their dealing with China, for example, during the heights of the Vietnam War, Mao warned the US not to cross the 17th parallel, or else China will send another 'Volunteer' expeditionary force like in Korea, and so the US conducted multiple air raids into North Vietnam, but the US army never crossed the 17th parallel into North Vietnam.
Eventually, The CCP commies ended up consuming other people's territory as their regime-in-power zone. Probably, that might give a little bit of credit to why Commie Sinoland has been never welcomed by neighboring Koreans(Even commie N.Koreans hate Sino commies). Like neither Russians ain't received between former commie eastern Europeans.
I mean the united states didn't commit to a full scale war due to support from home. The generals wanted to invade china too. The only reasons the Chinese pushed the us back was because the us forced the military to maintain defensive lines. The reason the Chinese were successfully was the united states had one foot in the other out. China would of been screwed especially considering the united states almost deployed nukes conventionally. But hey look at that you guys won and now North Korea is a striving democracy that leads the world in alot. Jk that would be the south the one then us supported.
Quite importantly Manchuria(the region bordering Korea) was the most industrialised part of China(especially after WW2 ravaged the rest of China but mostly left Manchuria intact) and was vital to the Chinese economy.
@@michaelpelzek8882 I mean, until the 1980s North Korea actually was significantly richer and had higher living standards than the South. It wasn't until the USSR collapsed when the DPRK really started to fall behind the ROK. Just like the South Vietnamese, the South Korean government was widely unpopular and was essentially a dictatorship. The US had no intention of trying to create a strong Korea, and what happened in South's economic miracle in the 90s was completely by chance. China has shown that a similar economic growth can happen even with a Communist government. Also note that the South Korean government today is far from a "striving democracy", it's an imperfect government with many controversies (including the influence of the Moonies/Reunification Church).
It's also not true that the US was maintaining defensive lines, at least not at the start. They were aggressively pushing north, since McArthur wanted to completely dismantle the DPRK fast, and this was when the Chinese counterattack stalled their offensive and pushed them back. The coalition troops were then pushed back all the way to the present DMZ where they were finally able to establish defensive positions. The US certainly was not at their peak strength, but that was mainly because post-war sentiment led to large scale budget cuts and scaling down of the military, not because "they had one foot in and the other out". American Anti-War sentiment in the Korean War was actually pretty tame, especially since at first it was seen as a liberation mission.
Don't forget that the Korean War also diverted hundreds of thousands of troops away from Taiwan and saved it from CCP control, up to this day.
a korea war vet at work told me "We didn't even fight Koreans, we fought the Chinese" We would have had the same result if we crossed the 17th parallel
Was he missing from combat all the way until the Chinese crossed the Yalu? Seems convenient
@@TheZachary86 Well 2/3 of the Korean War were fought after the Chinese involved so it make sense that he mostly faces Chinese in the field, just like in Nam when most of the fighting is done by the US
@@TheZachary86 Its fake story, very typical of internet westerners, tell a story which is fake, get likes by thousands to make it seem real.
Korea war was basically between USA and China and happend in the Korea peninsula.
Luckily he survived. Many of his fellows left their bodies there.
Interesting though, if you look at the historical perspective, ever since the ruling government in China selected Beijing as its capital, its had always been very sensitive about the situation in the Korean peninsula.
Be that of the Imjin war between the Ming Dynasty and Toyotomi Japan in1592, the first Sino-Japanese war in 1894 and eventually the Korean War in 1950. The sheer proximity of Korea peninsula to the Chinese capitol made it situation ever more complicated.
When the capital of China was Xi'an, China and Japan had a "baijiangkou" /白江口 war (another Korean War). In 663, it had a great impact on Japan. Before the 7th century, Japanese culture was very much like South Korea. After that, Japanese culture began to turn to China.
If the US military stationed in South Korea leaves, I believe China is more willing to support South Korea, as they have clearly lost patience with North Korea
@linshitao lst That's a big IF. Now that American troops are present, even the CJK FTA has been floundered.
If you understand geography and military affairs, then if you look at the border between China and North Korea, you will know why Chinese leaders of all generations have attached great importance to this area.
@@xiaotan4790 The American Imperialist need to close their foreign military bases in Korea and Japan and end their military sanctions trade wars.
My grandpa fought in the Korean war as part of the PVA. He never really talked about it except for one time when I found a few medals hidden in his closet.
My grandfather fought for the UN forces, and he didn't like to talk about the actual fighting. He mostly spoke about his army buddies, local Koreans, and the unit's adopted dog "spare parts".
I found 20 years of letters between my grandfather and a South Korean he befriend during the war. My grandfather didn't like the killing, but I believe that his Korean friend and his family having a better quality of life helped him deal with the conflict psychologically.
I had a great great great Uncle who fought in Korea as well but got captured early on and spent the whole war in terrible North Korean POW camps that were mostly ran by the Chinese. He even later participated in the staged 1952 Inter Camp Olympics to make it look like the prisoners were having a fun time. My grandpa who was a child at the time said when our uncle came back in 53 he had a totally different personality because of how quiet he was now and had a big scar on his arm that he didn't wanna talk about. Unfortunately he died when was like 26 due to a lung infection he had contracted while there
@@badluck5647 Understandable why veterans didn't like talking about the fighting. But it's very nice you found those letters. My grandpa does not really have any letters or written documents regarding his time in Korea but I found out he carried a small journal with him. Since my family background came from peasant farmers at that time my grandpa didn't know how to write or read so in his journal he draws and documents his experience. (I say draw but to me it looked a like bunch of scribbles)
@@Spongebrain97 That must be a terrible experience your great great great Uncle has been through. When I was young I always enjoyed having the fan turned on since I didn't like the heat and sweat and we didn't have aircons in the village. Of course I complained about the heat and wanted to cool myself off but my grandpa would always tell me to turn off the fan saying things like it's cold and he doesn't like the cold. I thought he just didn't like the cold because he couldn't handle it but now I would assume the reason he dislikes the cold was probably because of his experience in Korea.
@@Mocha_122 It must have been hard for him to see what North Korea became.
I imagine it like my friends who served tours in Afghanistan for the Afghans to have human rights and democracy, and now it seems meaningless as the Taliban oppresses the people into universal poverty.
No mention of the multiple warnings from Chou EnLi to the Americans to not advance American Armies to the Chinese border? No mention of the location of the American Armies and their speed of advance with no sign of them stopping at the border when China attacked entered the war? No mention of the military operations by Taiwan, China and the USA in the Taiwan strait in the years leading up to the Korean War? Major omissions from a Chinese perspective on these events, in my opinion.
The CCP didn’t have diplomatic communications with the US. They transmitted those threats through the Indians, and the US could not confirm whether they were true or not.
@@TheBizziniss Your source: trust me bro lol
@@challenger516 I didn’t know I needed to source stuff in the comments section of a TH-cam video, especially about things that are common knowledge (which doesn’t require citation) but here you go. The CCP had no direct diplomatic relations with the US in 1950. In fact the US had not had diplomats with PRC since 1948 when they were expelled for espionage, or so the excuse went. India took the initiative of being the go between for all the powers involved in the Korean conflict as they were concerned with how this conflict would ultimately affect Asia as a whole, which included themselves due to proximity. India was active at the UN and had diplomatic relations with all the countries involved and attempted repeatedly to prevent the conflict from escalating. The US did not start speaking directly to the Chinese until they began negotiations for a ceasefire in July of 1951. I think that India helped make that happen as well, but I may be wrong about that. It may have been the Soviet Union who coordinated that, but we didn’t exactly have open communications with the USSR either.
“As mentioned earlier, India had tried to warn America that Chinese forces would enter the Korean War and was proven correct.”
www.brookings.edu/articles/catastrophe-on-the-yalu-americas-intelligence-failure-in-korea/
Further, the CCP had planned to enter the conflict as soon as North Korea invaded South Korea but wasn’t able to mobilize, transport and supply troops fast enough to get involved until much later. But they still intended to intervene which is how they came to have so many troops at the Yalu when McArthur crossed the 38th parallel.
repository.lsu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2803&context=gradschool_theses#:~:text=In%20late%20October%201950%2C%20the,commitment%20to%20halt%20communist%20expansion.
www.shankariasparliament.com/article/indias-role-in-korean-war-1950-53
muse.jhu.edu/pub/139/article/528257
www.wilsoncenter.org/publication/zhou-enlai-and-chinas-response-to-the-korean-war
koreanwarlegacy.org/chapters/north-toward-the-yalu-river/
But yeah, you can trust me bro. Spent a lot of my life doing nothing but reading about the wars of the last century.
@TheBizziniss Again, source please
@TheBizziniss None of the stuff you posted are related to your previous comment. You just changed your subject.
While doing a research project for a college class last semester, I learned of a 3x great uncle who I hadn't known of before who fought in the Korean War and was captured pretty early on and was a POW for most of it. The various camps he spent time in in North Korea were actually operated by Chinese troops. During that time he also participated in the staged 1952 InterCamp Olympics which was also set up by Mao. Essentially to put on a show for the world to make it seem like the prisoners were having fun and weren't being mistreated
he's lucky he survived. 1,000,000 chinese died to bring the gift of North Korea to the world. totally worth it right? lol!
@@secretbassrigs yeah it's kinda weird because contrary to what most people might think, China doesn't actually really care for North Korea. They're a useful buffer against South Korea and Japan but besides that North Korea is pretty much a tumor that China has to look out for and they're not viewed as friends
lati long But nah, those numbers must be lies amirite
Seriously, Chinese are ashamed of North Korea. I should know. Im Chinese
Ah I saw you in another comment thread. Here's what I wrote over there:
I'm sorry for your loss, but to be fair, the PVA probably wasn't mistreating your uncle (I'm lazy), because that was what the PVA soldiers had to endure as well. Economy wasn't exactly booming back then and military logistics were often cut off due to air raids (thanks a lot USA). The PVA had to live on what little supply they had and they treated the prisoners with a similar standard.
It's the same thing for every big nation - you don't allow for non-friendlies on your border. Even a neutral is a potential enemy tomorrow. So, friendlies or bust! Look what USA did to any neutral or hostile country not on its border, but its entire sphere of influence. You were either hard-core pro-USA, or you were about a month away from a coup, at best. Same thing was done by USSR and later Russia. If they but smelled that you are not pro-USSR/Russian, you got yourself a coup/civil war/invasion. No great power allows a non-friendly state on its border. So yeah, from Chinese standpoint, it was as clear as day.
I will point out one thing though - Korea, had there been democracy, would have been a unified communist state, ironically. Communist resistance in Korea was the most active one (as happened to be the case in WWII anywhere in the world, with a few exceptions), so in the eyes of the people, communists were the popular guys. They fought hard, were against any collaboration with the Japanese (which was not the case for the parties of the center and right) and were seen as the furthest option from imperialism and colonialism (which is also the reason why pro-socliast movements were so popular in all newly released colonies in the world) - and thus the most people actually wanted them in the government.
Which is why between the end of the WWII and during the first elections held in the territory, the US occupied part clamped down heavily on any pro-socialist or communist they could find. We all know how "democratic" the first governments of the South were.
You can say in hindsight that "democratic oppression" was a good thing at the time because it lead to South Korea as we know it today - but if someone has to FORCE you into picking a democracy... is it a democracy? And how would Korea actually look today if it was allowed to choose for itself (and remained unified and communist) - without that huge war and the entire peninsula and its resources being unified under one regime? A large part of north's troubles with food and resources is the fact that it is mover 70% mountainous terrain. When you artificially split natural borders of a country, you can't really argue that one part is worse because of ideology. Countries form as synergy of regions, each feeding of each other's strengths. Imagine USA that was all of a sudden split along the Rockies? There is a great economic power in the west coast, but how well would it function without the fertile plains of the center-east?
That was the downfall of many artificially split nations after WWII, which is then used by dishonest intellectuals to force a certain story about one system being better than the other, which ever that one might be.
One good example is comparing East and West Germany and saying how West was better because of capitalism. Which is very dishonest. Not only was the east mostly swampy and agrarian part of Germany, it also lost is sole industrial region to Poland (Silesia) and was the most destroyed part of the country. Then someone comes along, points to the poverty of the East Germany and say "See, this is communism, now look at the prosperous West Germany - that's because of capitalism!". No, it is not, it is due to the fact that the entire industry left remained in that part of the country, which was almost 3 times larger as well, and was mostly self-sufficient due to its geography. People regularly tend to forget that when pushing their political ideas.
But I digress. While China might have used the "protection of the proletariat" argument for the involvement in Korea, them joining the war would have happened regardless of ideology and government. Same as subjugation of Tibet. If Republican forces won, they would have done absolutely the same. It is not about ideology, it is about achieving and retaining the power status.
Well, hows that policy working out for modern Russia? It turns out if you want to conquer a non friendly country you should at bare minimum be competent enough to do it, unlike Russia.
@@m2heavyindustries378 Russia 100% has the capability to take over Ukraine, but they aren't using their modern equipment due to the cost.
@@m2heavyindustries378 Turning the neutral/hostile nation to your side does not require you to invade it - that is the last resort. Which, for some reason, was the first choice for Russia. Usually you employ your intelligence services (that is one of the main reasons they exist) to turn the country towards you.
CIA and MI6 are basically doing it their entire history of existence.
Invasion is generally the last option a country ought to resort to.
In Russian case specifically, intelligence agencies failed completely, even on the basic intel gathering job (they didn't know what are they getting into - which is why there was a massive purge one month into the invasion) so it explains to a part why they didn't to to Ukraine what USA and UK do to their client states when they want to keep them in line.
@@thomasying4990 Taking a country means nothing if you can't hold it. Germany took most of Europe, both times - didn't matter that much in the end. Russia can turn the entire Ukraine to glass with nukes if it wants to so yes, they can take it. But either destroying it, or defeating its conventional forces on the battlefield, they can't hold that territory.
No one can.
USA won over enemy military in both Afghanistan and Iraq - but they still could not hold those lands. And they were smaller and weaker, without outside help.
So, if by some miracle Russia achieves its goals with current deployment levels, they can't effectively hold entire Ukraine. Not by a long shot. Unless they resort to mass extermination policies (which is not out of the question for Russia) holding a land of almost 40 million people, devastated by war, is not something any country in the world can do right now for a prolonged period of time, let alone Russia.
@@Wustenfuchs109 i doubt russia can successfully hold on to ukraine for very long
Regardless of political view and right or wrong, it amazes me that the people of the Chinese army have fought to a stalemate. Despite lackluster tactics and leadership…
I'm a huge military buff and there is so much cool US equipment that was first fielded in Korea or fielded for the only time in Korea. It was definitely an interesting time period from a technological standpoint
Not much of the stuff was new. The vast majority of the equipment was from WW2. Bulletproof vest, helicopters, and jets were new. Other than that... WW2 equipment.
Nah not much changed from WW2 for the average soldier. It was pretty much hilly trench warfare.
US ARMY USED biological and chemical weapons in that fight which was absolutely shameful
@krysten9123 What fight are you talking about?
@@krysten9123 The United States received personnel and assets from the infamous 731 unit and deployed them to the Fort Derrick military base. This is not conspiracy theory.
The propaganda posters are awesome. It's interesting to see the use of traditional characters as simplified versions had not been adopted at that time. One is even written from right to left.
Yeah propaganda from a lot of nations from the 40s and 50s were generally pretty cool. Mexico even has a cool WW2 poster of the Eagle from their flag ripping apart a nazi banner
as a white man, I find their depiction of my race horribly racist. haaa like I give a crap
The simplification took phases and you can see Mainland Chinese books as far into the 1960s that still contain a lot of traditional characters.
Chinese is traditionally written vertically from top to bottom, and from right to left. Today, many Chinese books published in Taiwan are still in this format, whereas books in Mainland China tend to be written horizontally from left to right.
Aside from a few Cold War spy novels, this is a period in history I don't know a lot about, so I'm glad I discovered your channel and your detailed videos that delve into all aspects of the times.
Speaking of Cold War spy novels, it might make an interesting video examining how authors have written about the era.
A lot of the analysis is very ideological focused
I really wish you focus on the Geopolitical factors, PRC at that point has no intention of allowing the US to be so close and use Korea as a staging point after McArther drove all the way close to the Yalu boarders. Looking at how Japan used northern Korea as a staging point for their ambitions in Manchurian they have no intention of letting another power- a global power btw that is quickly becoming a Hegemon all around it- to use the same area to drive west and right on its boarders.
I'd say he did the CCP a favor by not mentioning their
paranoid fever-dreams.
MacArthur publicly called for the use of nuclear weapons during this period.
@@A_Haunted_Pancake US always has paranoid dreams of “Free the world”and they made disasters in Syria,Iraq,and Afghanistan
@@timothylowe8327 That's correct Mac Authur invaded Korea after the Japanese had already surrendered. He took over their Military base and announced English as the official language of his military government. They massacred Korean people on Jeju island and tried to cover it up for years. They brought in Syngman who had done absolutely nothing for Korea during the war. They held a phoney election after which Rhee murdered his non communist opponent to celebrate victory and declared himself president of all Korea.
A real thanks for this video:) I found this war really interesting and seeing all the perspectives is perfect ! And here in France there's not much on this war.. so one more time : thank you ! And keep it up ^^
France? We'll get to Vietnam soon...
France also joined UN army in that time
France? Dien bien phu is nice for ya!
A side note, When I was in school in the late 1990s, the text in my history textbook didn't mention who started the Korean War specifically. Due to the foreign policy change at that time.
Truman proposed the division to Stalin who had no right to accept. Once US Troops came ashore like most places they never leave. Protect American bosses property and banking profits.
Could you create a playlist of your videos based on certain topics? It would be easier to find 'a previous episode' or put a link to episodes that covered related to the matter. I am not necessarily saying this about this video, just in the overall spectrum.
The irony of the US basically building the foundations of the CCP by first, not intervening in the civil war then intervening in the Korean War.
For what its worth, the CCP did do well to re establish China
Some new researches in related history showed while Mao knew Kim Il-Sung was preparing an invasion to the South Korea, he didn't know when it would happen. In fact Mao was in Moscow for quite a while to secure the treaty and Stalin's promise on not supporting Kim's unification effort. However a few days later Stalin agreed Kim's request when Kim paid a visit to Moscow conditioned that Mao also agreed. Kim wasn't very happy as he had to at least visit Mao, and notified Mao that Stalin agreed his plan.
Therefore CCP was poorly prepared before the Korean War broke. The elite troops of PLA was stationed in Fujian (Fukien) province, just across the Taiwan Strait, wearing summer suits preparing for an amphibian assault to the island. Many of them later wore summer suits entering Korean peninsula and died of hypothermia.
Many believe it was Korean war that interrupted Chinese unification, but some historians believe CCP already knew they lacked the necessary equipments to perform an amphibian assault when they failed to secure Kinmen.
Theres no way the mainlanders could win the taiwan invasion at that time. The US navy wouldve had field day shooting the chinese boats.
@@harukrentz435 It's difficult to say. FDR mistakenly thought KMT securely controlled China during WWII (hence the famous question "who lost China"). After KMT retreated to Taiwan and PRC was founded, the value of helping KMT defend from communist's invasion was debatable given the fall of the Iron Curtain. I am sure the US would definitely consider what USSR under Stalin's control would do had there been a military conflict in Taiwan strait with the US involved.
At a time the US even tried to establish some sort of a diplomatic relation with CCP or PRC, but CCP didn't choose to respond to the US because of the ideocracy they held.
Basically the US government was reevaluating China policies. I'd say it's too soon for them to make up the mind to intervene a military operation against Taiwan, given that's still the Chinese civil war.
Just speculations though, as there isn't "what if" in history.
Please do India Pakistan war 1971 next. The Great powers were heavily involved in it
Ironic how basically the Indian lives that weren’t lost in an outright revolt against the British, will be lost anyway in those wars.
they did. check their kings and general channel
My grandfather once participated in the Korean War. After his death, my mother gave me a cup (he didn't have a medal). Before CPC joined the Korean War, American planes bombed a small Chinese town on the border between China and North Korea, which made CPC very angry. CPC was unable to get Taiwan in 1950. The Korean War always existed in Chinese textbooks, but it did not exist in movies and TV dramas for a long time.（我的外公曾经参加过朝鲜战争，在他死后，我妈妈把一个纪念杯子（他没有勋章）送给了我。在CPC加入朝鲜战争之前，美国的飞机轰炸了一个在中朝边境的中国小城，这让CPC非常愤怒。CPC没有能力得到台湾在1950。朝鲜战争一直存在在中国的教科书，但是他不存在电影和电视剧很长一段时间。）
That's all great, but I want to hear the story about the cup OvO
Hello, US pIanes went to the border after the CCP attckd the UN.
@Земля：fist is in 1950.8.27 。
@崔莱：就是一个写着抗美援朝的纪念杯，他到战场时战事已经在三八线胶着了，所以他没有战功就没有勋章，别的证件也不知那儿去了，只有一个杯子证明他参加过。
@@可爱包-c4v Hi, even lf the US bombed before that, the Communlsts started the war with the CCP help, so they were just gettlng what they were asklng for anyways.
The USA wants to forget about the Korean war so that the USA can repeat other future wars against other countries again and they have done it. China does not want to forget the Korean war so that they will know how to react if it is repeated again by the USA as it has happened with the Vietnam war, Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan and now Ukraine and possibly Taiwan.
The USA is a devil, they want to control the whole world and provoke the wars everywhere for their own interests.
Surely the US is not the one at war in Ukraine?
I appreciate this channel for bringing the other perspective to the table. It's a rare move these days, but it's the best way to show objectiveness.
The example of soldier Qiu being burned alive without making a sound was still in my elementary textbook in this very century. Any war with the "fending off enemies from our border" theme builds into the national identity, at least in my education.
I wouldn't exactly call this "objectiveness" as many of his statements and perspectives are clearly heavily biased. A real balanced debate would involve voices from both sides, which means the Chinese perspective made by actual Chinese people. However TH-cam has a tendency to delete or shadowban such content. It's impossible to have a real conversation here.
"objectiveness" - ahahahaha
I uploaded a interview I did with a Vietnam Veteran if you guys are interested
@@崔莱 TH-cam is blocked in China and people would be afraid of going against the party line he can already study Chinese sources when making the episode, this is about the Chinese perspective at the time also more so than today.
@@silverdeathgamer2907 Quite the contrary actually, back then the CPC exercised *less* power than they have today, by a pretty huge gap too. They had to walk some very thin lines and public opinion and support was most vital at that time (although it always is and will be important). Such an enormous military endeavor cannot be achieved without massive support from the people, which they had in order to win.
What I'm about to point out is very obvious, but for some reason many people just don't seem to realize: the soldiers are the guys with the guns! They have legs, they have transport, they have the guns, *nobody* can make them do *anything* by means of force. *They* needed to support this military campaign and *they* needed to be willing to give their lives for this cause. And they did.
Funny how the west choose to focus on Vietnam instead of Korea while Chinese involvement in the Vietnam war was rarely mentioned in China, people choose to talk about Korea or the Sino-Vietnam war instead.
This is because Chinese support for North Vietnam was minimal. North Vietnam chose to side with USSR in the Sin-Soviet Split, and later China fought a war with Vietnam a few years after the Americans left.
@@lamlam-bw7ev 中国有60万部队在北越，我姥爷当时在越南做炮兵，部队规定就是出了营区不能说汉语。
@@春分得意马蹄疾 有參加對越自衛反擊戰嗎？有沒有被越南人當作叛徒
Chinese involvement in north Vietnam provided air defense and secured the supply chain between China and north Vietnam. They did not fight severely against any enemy.
M*A*S*H is still my all time favorite TV show. I can watch it over and over. It really spurred my interest in this part of history.
It's great because it never made a staunch pro-U.S. anti-Korean stance. There are a few times where soldiers from both sides come face to face and let each other go on their way because it was never a war people on either sides really wanted.
"On China" by Henry Kissinger is probably one of the most authoritative texts from the Western perspective. Dr. Kissinger basically authored US foreign policy with respect to China for decades, much of which is still very relevant today.
Kissinger created a Frankenstein Monster with his incorrect assumptions about Oriental mentality. :)
@@John77Doe would be very interested to read an elaboration of these incorrect assumptions. I'm sure many were incorrect. Probably not all.
Kissinger you is responsible for the Genocide in East Timor when he gave the green light to Indonesia...yeah he'll burn very hot in hell
@@John77DoeKissinger was an Imperialist monster.
It is surprising of how the indo pak conflict was a pretty important event in the history of the cold war
No one has ever covered that
They will cover it nonstop when India becomes a threat to US. Then you will be sick of it
kinda miss the role of Sino-Soviet Treaty of Friendship, Alliance and Mutual Assistance, while Soviet Union did give back Changchun Railway, Port Arthur, and Dalian to China, but there is a clause of mutual defence, where Soviet Union would station troops in northeast China if it come under attack from US. When MacArthur was driving Kim Il-sung to the Chinese border, Joseph Stalin wanted China to host Kim and allow him to exist as an exile government in northeast China. This will expose China's northeast and if the conflict between Kim and US bleeds over, it will trigger the mutual defence clause, and Stalin would take back all the initial concessions he made and take back the Railway, Port Arthur, and Dalian.
Report released by the United Nations:
Approximately 260,000 casualties for the US military.
Approximately 1.14 million casualties for the South Korean army.
Approximately 650,000 casualties for the Chinese army.
Approximately 400,000 casualties for the North Korean army.
Report released by China:
More than 390,000 casualties for the US military.
More than 700,000 casualties for the South Korean army.
More than 360,000 casualties for the Chinese army.
More than 300,000 casualties for the North Korean army.
Report released by South Korea:
300,000 casualties for the US military.
More than 980,000 casualties for the South Korean army.
700,000 casualties for the Chinese army.
500,000 casualties for North Korea.
Report released by the United States:
Nearly 160,000 casualties for the US military.
Over 1.48 million casualties for the South Korean army.
750,000 casualties for the Chinese army.
650,000 casualties for the North Korean army.
Speaking of Vietnam, would you consider doing a series on the war?
What is this, the Armchair Historian? Now he won't be able to make a video with that title.
I honestly thought this was going to be an Armchair History video when I selected it.
Very interesting. Thank You!
The Chinese PVA saved North Korea at a tremendous cost in lives. The CCP were conscious of the heavy casualties and drain on resources, so when Stalin died it came as an opportunity for peace talks to begin.
saved? I find your choice of words odd.
No, we didn't fight to save the DPRK, we fought to save ourselves. The DPRK got lucky.
@@崔莱 China was not going to get invaded by the US
@@kaiseramadeus233 If you know the first thing about the Cold War you'd know how wrong that statement is.
@@崔莱 did the US invade the USSR?
So in china the Korean war is the last chapter of the book the conclusion that ties everything together. Meanwhile In America it's a simple footnote.
Chinese are a wonderful people, I worked in Deng Feng factory Shiyen and stayed in Wuhan and Beijing and all I between and met the most amazing folks, we all suffer under leadership we don't agree with ✌️
We'd all get along better without leaders and the media driving us apart.
I was born in Shiyan, didn’t quite remember seeing any foreign nationals during my time there but heard a lot about them from my grandpa who used to be a director at the assembly plant. Last time I visited was probably 10 years ago (need to go visit again when I can), that place has changed a lot with so many developments compared to what it used to be.
CCP enjoys a 90% rating so...
@@davezgy1 Sounds like the very city, I swear we were followed by curious but friendly locals every time we stepped out of the hotel, that huge tower on the main road, and other than a foreign plated Mercedes I too never saw another foreign person. Lovely people Best Wishes from Liverpool UK 🇬🇧
@@elmohead By whom?
I was expecting a mention of the 2021 Chinese film The Battle at Lake Changjin which is the #1 grossing film all time in China. I watched it not too long ago. It's not a bad film. It's not a great film. There is some nuance and it's hard to say it's a pro war film. Of course it does celebrate the bravery of Chinese troops, but it contrasts that with quiet village scenes when the hero goes back home.
I mean it's about a defected KMT unit being sent to Korea in winter with just summer clothing to act as cannon fodder, eventually they froze to death trying to lay ambush on Americans
我怀疑你看过这部电影吗？
"They were both ruled by sweet looking old men but they were both ruthless dictators"
“The “fall” of mainland China to communism in 1949 led the United States to suspend diplomatic ties with the PRC”
Wild that there was no mention of this. I knew the mutual disdain post WW2 had to have been rooted somewhere (despite working together to contain the Japanese expansion in Asia).
Why did the backward semi-colonial China with almost no industry, after half a century of civil war, World War II and four years of liberation war, "aggress" when the civil war was not even over, and for the sake of "communism" aggression" seeking to take on the world's No. 1 military power? The logic of this video is really weird
Simple: because in American minds, no matter how horrific American behavior is, it’s always “well intentioned” and “fundamentally just”, and America’s adversaries are conveniently enough always “evil and oppressive” or at least, “sinister and greedy”, and therefore they not only don’t have a “right of self-defense”, but in fact, any action they take is “fundamentally offensive and aggressive”, while America’s actions are always “fundamentally defensive”. Yes, I know that American attitudes are delusional and juvenile, but ~95% of Americans actually think like this to some degree or another, and maybe ~5% (at most) are relatively fair-minded and well-informed, and understand that American has been a horrific rogue nation for most of its history, whether domestically or internationally.
Well gee do a thought experiment: if the US had encouraged and supported South Korea in invading North Korea, how would that have been viewed in China? Your neurotic hypersensitivity even to videos which attempt to see things from the Chinese POV is stunning. Not to mention your incredible hypocrisy about "colonialism" given the various occupied territories and captive peoples in the PRC.
I bet you live in the West as well
@@OnlineEnglish-wl5rp your neurotic hypersensitivity, right...china originally didn't want to support Korea, same with stalin, but they were forced to intervene after NK was defeated by UN forces. In fact, Zhou Enlai even transmitted a telegram to the Indian embassy, requesting that they tell USA that if they crossed the 38th parallel, then they could expect China to retaliate. Plus, I assume that by 'occupied territories' you're referring to Xinjiang and Tibet, which have literally been under chinese dominion even before half the west existed.
Plus, Mao didn't 'encourage and support the koreans', in fact, the main reason why he entered the war (apart from securing the border) was to impress the Soviets, and show that China was a strong power. Before then, he only reluctantly promised NK that they could expect Chinese aid, and didn't help in the initial invasion
Great one, it *should* be on the American mind.
Just want to make a quick correction: it’s CPC for Communist Party of China not CCP for Chinese Communist Party.
They are not ignorant, but deliberate. They want to promote China as the Soviet Union. Because they have already carried out a lot of smear work against the Soviet Union. If China were a CCP, then Americans would naturally develop hostility. This hostility has nothing to do with the facts about China, only with the United States' smear campaign against the Soviet Union.
PRC works too
I think this war resulted in the eternal hostility between the PRC and the USA, despite the détente between them from the 70s to the 90s. As far as the US was concerned this war was a total betrayal as the US entered WW2 a lot influenced by them being sympathetic to China against Japanese aggression, and for the PRC rulers the US will not cease undermining their rule over China. The sad thing is that, as demonstrated by the 70s to 90s détente, there really had been and has been no genuine hostility between the US people and Chinese people.
Shouldn't that hostility be borne out of them being blocked by the US to finish off the Nationalists that was now holed up in Taiwan?
Japan only roped America into the war as a result of America implementing an oil embargo to starve Imperial Japan's ability to wage war on China.
Or as the CPC calls it "Western Imperialism"?
@lati long The US hasn't been a majority "Anglo" in over a hundred years, and the term is only used by anti-American conspiracy theorists who want to link the US with British imperialism.
I have never in my life heard that America "attacked the wrong enemy" in WW2 , so your sources are complete nonsense. The closest to that narrative is the idea that the US was only allies with the Soviet Union as long as they had a common enemy.
The US support for the nationalists in the Chinese Civil War precluded any sort of friendship from developing.
The US perception of China (under the CCP) was fairly positive up until a couple years ago. That was also at the same time that a lot of international media organisations began to publish articles that didn't pull back the proverbial punches when it came to assessing the CCP's rule over China.
The CCP have been painting a bleak picture of the world outside of China for decades, for a long time the language barrier enabled the CCP to influence people in China without any serious repercussions abroad. That is why the Great Translation Movement scares the CCP, they can't hide behind the language barrier anymore and its apparent they've pushed an anti-foreigner rhetoric (in particular anti-Western) ideology for a long time.
It's funny really when you think about it - in the US people used to see China as a friendly country, while in China the CCP painted the US as an imperialist power out to drag China back into the Century of Humiliation.
Thanks again for a great video
Would you consider some videos on latin America during the cold war - contras?
I was born in July 1952, the direct result of my WW2 combat veterans fathers wounded return from Korea
Dad served in Europe WW2 then was recalled to Korea. I served in Germany (1976-1979) then Korea (1994-1995)
Mr. Rick, thanks for your father's service!! Because of the sacrifice of men like him, today I can be a Christian, and free man! My deepest rescpects for your father!!!!👍👍👍
Greetings from Brasil!!!!🤗🇧🇷🇺🇸
Respect to you for your service, sir. My father was born in the South and was a refugee during the war. I was born in 85, and went to school in the 8th Army garrison.
Imperalism
The author is painting the Korean War in an needless ideological manner. If you look back at the history of this part of the world, you would have seen that this is just another war where China tried to secure its border. There were four major wars on the Korean peninsular that involves a Chinese state and powers outside of the peninsular, 1. Tang China vs. Japan 663 AD. 2. Ming China vs. Japan 1592 to 1598. 3. Qing China vs. Japan 1894 to 1895. 4. Sino-Japanese war 1938 to 1945. The US in 1950s are just one of the many outsiders trying to grab Korea and set foot at the Chinese door step. No Chinese state would allow that to happen without a fight, the Emperors would not, why would anyone think that the Communist would act any differently? Portraying the Korean War in 1950s through an ideological lens is either a twist to fit propaganda purpose, or an outright ignorance.
It's an interesting angle you take on this. This is China fighting foreign aggression, but you're constantly perceiving the "CCP" as the bad guys.
The CCP invaded North and South Korea in defense of the brutal North Korean dictatorship that had started the war. North Korea remains today a brutal, bloody dictatorship. South Korea is a prosperous democracy. So don't be surprised when people are "constantly percieving the CCP as the bad guys.
China was not fighting against foreign aggression. They were trying to keep what would amount a puppet state around so they wouldn't have a US ally on their border.
Also the CCP are talked about as bad guys because they are.
David. Do you think subsequent leaders have learned from past mistakes? If so which ones?
Thanks
When American forces first arrived in Korea in 1945 for the peaceful transfer of power, was it from the Soviets or Japanese? Thanks.
China simply spoke a language (not Chinese or English) that the Americans understood.
This topic and timeline is stunning, while this era is hazy. I am very curious about this topic as it’s not stressed/ focused on a lot in history class.
10:48 You framed the Chinese POV as "the idea of a client state as little more than a fig leaf for inperial ambitions". Well, was it? You never actually said what the US was doing there and what their intentions were.
Because it's obvious it was to stop a hostile takeover.
Wow that was some amazing mental gymnastics just in the first 5 minutes of the video, trying to "explain" the video through an anti-communist perspective.
No need for those mental flips,
just ask yourself what would America do if the Soviet troops in the name of helping a Southern Socialist Mexico, is pushing right up to the Texas border.
For a channel that is affiliated to the World War 2 channel, it's certainly a lot more politically motivated.
Didn’t north korea start the war..?
The Soviet Union consisted of nothing but dictatorships. Mexico during the Soviet era was a democracy (and still is). If Soviets were helping a "Southern Socialist Mexico," by traveling to the Texas border, then undoubtedly the Soviets are supporting a government of dictatorship, invading a democracy, and seeking to overthrow a Democracy. Americans generally like democracy (recall that American volunteers fought against fascists intent on overthrowing Spanish democracy, Americans got rid of the brutal dictatorship of Saddam Hussein in Iraq, replacing him with a democratic government, and nowadays send aid to democratic Ukraine in its fight with the dictator Putin).
Moreover, when you come to the military defense of a country (that is, South Korea) invaded by another, you seek not merely to drive out the invaders but to overthrow the government that launched the invasion, *so that this government cannot launch a war of aggression into the future.* Consequently, it is not surprising that United Nations forces got close to the Chinese border during the Korean War.
Historically, Korea is not a buffer zone between China and any other countries, because the only threat thoughout the Chinese history was from Northern China where the nomads live, not from sea. Japan was never a threat to China in history until in 1800s when Japan became abnomarly strong and China was in quick decline. If the US landed in Korea, China will face a huge military base in Korea, which is unacceptable, hence it viewed Korea as a buffer zone.
17:34 that guy lol "Damn it woman, we're on camera"
"A war the Americans tend not to remember, is one the Chinese government does not want people to forget." - This channel
defeated dont want to remember, victors dont not want to forget, can it be simplier?
@@liran547 Americans kinda only lost cuz it gave up. If they really tried, they'd probably win korea
@@jvbutalid8316 thats only the losers excause, why didnt they give up during WW2, no one gives up if they are wining friend
@@jvbutalid8316 without heavy armor, air force, proper supply, Chinese beat u shit out. Americans gave up?
A more accurate title for this video would be "Korean War from the Communist Party of China Perspective, Interpreted by someone who can't get the name of the party right"
24:49 Not sure where you're getting this information from, but from what I know people are mostly aware of the fact that we fought the Korean War to protect our country first and foremost. Of course we'd much rather not participate, this can be seen from the US's war on Vietnam not too long after, as long as the western powers show basic restraint.
Those of us who have spent more time on this period of history tend to agree that the Korean war was the single most vital war in recent history that directly determined the outcome of the Cold War for China. It also brought the US and other western powers to the negotiating table, and secured our position in the UN security council. Thus the importance of this history is far from overstated. If anything, people should be *more* aware of this historical period and its significance. The bad future that Mao had predicted is looming dangerously close, as the newer generations show a significant decline in political participation and voter turnout. Those born in the late 20th century and early 21st century had never experienced the era of foreign threat and economic hardship that their parents and grandparents had to deal with, and thus they feel much less motivated to carry on the work and philosophies of the revolution. I personally see this as the biggest potential weakness we have in the long run, hopefully we can engage more effectively in culture building and historical education in the following decades.
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replying to : @Officer Pendleton, Raccoon Police Dept. The outcome of the Korean War provided the most important bargaining chip, without it we wouldn't have gained the council seat. Keep in mind that diplomacy doesn't happen over night, before the war the US and its NATO allies were refusing any and all diplomatic communications with China. The Korean War forced them to the negotiating table and shattered the US's military reputation as an "invincible force". Everything is basically starting from 0, and slowly normalizing relations, until finally gaining enough political sway to enter the security council. It takes time for leverage to convert into political sway, and 20 years in diplomacy is really not that long. None of this would have been possible without our successes in the Korean war, it is possibly the single most important factor that lead to the subsequent events.
Also my replies have a tendency to "disappear", this is the 12th time I'm sending this (so glad that copy-paste is a thing). If you can't read the full reply because it is gone, just ping me and I'll send again. update: I've given up trying to reply so I'm editing this into my previous comment.
@@崔莱 one thing
It did not secure UN Security Council Position
That position was given to you in 70s/80s
20 years after Korean War so its not really related
@user-wb7ez9ud4p i agree 100% that this period is highly overlooked in the US
that would not have been possible without the Korean war. international politics is slow and tends to lag behind. the outcome of the Korean war was certainly a vital factor.@@XOFInfantryman
these programmes are amazing!!!!!!!!!
Liked and shared.
Hope somebody recommend my videos to those who want to learn Chinese.
I teach Chinese in humorous way and with cute pictures.
Chinese characters still retain their pictographic origins. Knowing what the characters look like originally can help remember them.
I’ve spent about 100,000 hours studying English humor and Western culture, and many years studying Chinese culture and jokes. My native language is Chinese.
Despite their are many disagreements between PRC and DPRK but they still have a very close relationship and military alliance (Treaty). The Mutual Aid and Cooperation Friendship Treaty between The People's Republic of China and The Democratic People's Republic of Korea is the only military alliance that PRC ever signed with any country.
Nice episode
US seem to have forgotten the last few times it went to war against China. The warmonger's drumbeat in the US is deafening these days.
Can you please say a different quote at the end the jfk one is getting over used
Kym and his core founding members of North Korea attended Chinese military school and fought along side of PLA against Japanese+ civil war, they were very cozy with leaderships in China. However, like you said, Beijing was not enthusiastic of the idea supporting military actions of the north; he went to Moscow instead, got the support there, started the war, lost it, China now has to respond. In the end, nothing changed.
It ended the propaganda that the Chinese were just lauderman. Macarthur famously in "a moral raising" speech said, "What are you afraid of a few Chinese laundrymen?" I was another nail in the coffin of Western Imperialist Racial Superiority.
Happy Ramadhan month everyone!
MASH (at least the movie) was actually a commentary on the Vietnam War.
At 17:36 you can see a typical woman trying to get into her mans pocket or maybe she is a politician. Lmao
I was rooting for a warlord, not Chaing Kai shek from the get go.
Video: You're probably wondering what this has to with the korean war.
Me: NO SHIT, IT'S WHAT I CLICKED ON TO SEE 15 MINUTES AGO.
Very intersting
US military invasion of the Korean peninsula threatened the national security of China.
Meanwhile at the same time, US navy also invaded the Taiwan Strait in the Southeast and US support the south Vietnam in the South.
China has threats from 3 directions. If China did nothing, China may have trouble in 3 directions and it was too dangerous. So China must fight back. To confront enemy in Korea peninsula was the best choice compared to fight in 2 other places.
And China in 1950 was not the same country as in 2023. China had nothing at that time, poor, low tech, and no military strength. But China has guts as we do right now.
The process of the war was blood bath. I only want to mention one point. During the past all wars joined by US, only the Korean war was rarely mentioned. Why? because US lost the war. But they established a colony called South Korea along with their other colony Japan. China won the war and defended our national security and USA also learned not to mess with Chinese anymore.
In our perspective, the war's name is Anti USA Invasion and Help to Defend DPRK War. Our goal is the same as the name.
full of pride and prejudice。A civil war in the same country, you call it an invasion? And if it's all an invasion? Who invaded whom in the American Civil War?
If South Sudan invades Sudan, is that a Civil War, or is it instead one country invading another? The United Nations evidently thought the invasion of South Korea by North Korea was improper, which is why it chose to intervene on the side of South Korea.
@Herman47 You are wrong. It is illegal for the United States to join forces with other countries to send troops. If you don’t believe it, you can take a look at the United Nations’ decision on sending troops this time. The so-called United Nations military is just a skin put on by the United States in order to send troops to beautify it. If it was legal, why didn't the UN troops stop at the 38th parallel? When the so-called United Nations troops can spread the war to the Chinese border, it is already illegal.
Missing in the western narrative about n korean agression is the inconvenient fact that neither the 13:44 north or the south recognized the other as legit. In fact, both sides vowed to liberate the other. That made the war a civil war and American involvement a foreign intervention, albeit at the invitation of one side.
Would you say the same about Ukraine, that it's a civil war where Russia has intervened?
@@raxit1337 Maybe we should ask people in Donbas. Were they are is ukr or russ.
@@GaionSputro Russia did not claim this land until several months after they had intervened. It's a moot point.
Did the United Nations -- which voted to intervene -- regard it as a civil war, or instead one country invading another?
@@Herman47 The United Nations intervened in the civil war on the Korean Peninsula, but it could not save the children of Gaza.
You need to make a video about Marshall's mission to China after WWII!
Rather ideological focused, this video could be much refined if looked from the angle of geopolitical
Every time I went to the VA Hospital, I had to cross the 38th Paranoid.
I remember reading a somewhat bizarre article a couple years or so ago where some Korean pop group at a dedication to the Korean war thanked the "brave allied troops for helping defend our country" or something like that, this apparently got Chinese netizens quite riled up as they demanded a "dedication" to the "brave Chinese troops" as well. Which, to give a topical example, feels a bit like asking the Ukrainians to give a dedication to the "brave Russian troops" or something to that effect.
Yes, it involved the ridiculously world-wide popular group BTS. It goes to show that the Chinese youth have no real idea which side the Chinese fought on during the Korean War. Even today, state narrative meant most Chinese seem to think the current conflict in Ukraine was due to a provocation started by the Americans against the Russians. When a Chinese vlogger working in Odessa tried to correct this 'narrative', he was immediately labeled as a traitor in the pay of the CIA.
Yep
Except the Chinese did not invade Korea, anymore than the Americans and other UN nations invaded Korea. The chineses like the Americans, come to the assistance of an ally in need, in what was basically a civil war.
@@ArionRDAW th-cam.com/video/Wuv4f-AmKE4/w-d-xo.html
Brave Chinese troops defended North Korea from being conquered by America
17:35 Get yo hands off my pocket binch 🙃🙃🙃🙃🙃🙃🙃🙃
😂
McArthur was like "Aite Bet." And Mao said "Bet."
Excelente documentário achei interessante ver a guerra da Coreia sobre a perspectiva chinesa 😉👍🏻
I'm pretty sure my grandfather was sent to Korea during the war. I didn't realize this war was such a big deal on the Chinese side though. Thank you for another fascinating video!
Stay well out there everybody, and God bless you, friends. ✝️ :)
Invaders don't consider it a big deal. They have nothing to lose or anything at stake
@@jaclrossrick6327 The "invaders" were the North Korans and the Chinese.
The UN forces were there to defend the South.
@@martinfiedler4317 The real invader is the North Korean, China aid NK because of obvious reasons; China’s goal was to keep NK in power, in this case you could say China’s defending NK, they literally said they would not intervene if the UN doesn’t cross the 38th line, how’s that an invader?
Obviously you don’t want someone pointing you with a gun in front of your house now isn’t it
@@tc4303 "obvious reasons"? Really? Now THAT is rich! Aiding a criminal aggressor is an "obvious reason" and the UN apparently has to subject itself to this kind of blackmail when dealing with said aggressor.
The important facts are that North Korea illegally invaded South Korea in June 1950 and ignored the UN resolution from the same month to immediately cease hostile actions.
North Korea clearly was the criminal in that war. And "China", too, by aiding this criminal.
Has Beijing ever apologized for the countless UN-soldiers and Korean civilians that had to die due to their behavior?
Don't think so!
@@martinfiedler4317 the crook was mcarthur... why cross 38th parallel and now you, being a biatch
I didn't like Chaing,
as much as I liked a certain warlord or two
I say this because, from what I've read, he was a sort of quasi-Socialist.
His early ideology, is not really disputed, however, nobody forgets to mention how beautiful his American educated, and Chinese national wife is in the Washington D.C. party scene for ugly people (she wasn't one of them) and touring America in general.
He basically turned most fundings from US government into his family's personal asset. China was in a situation that we could choose from either a bandit who pretends to be a kind man(cpc) or an obvious corrupted warlord(kmt). Chiang was maniac and he always was. Such warlord who born in a wealthy family won't share the same feeling as those starving civilians.
@@boostnicho6891 Not all the warlords were bad people.
"quasi-Socialist"...what? he literally purged all the leftist members of the KMT immediately when he came into power and allowed generals and officials to embezzle US aid funds while some of their soldiers were literally starving to death.
Chaing was pretty much a fascist in the nationalist-socialist mode. The only reason why he isn't know as such today in the West is because he was "our" fascist.
Hows that non-socialist healthcare working for ya Johnnyc?
17:34 "I need some yen to buy useless consumer goods." "Capitalist harlot!"
Despite the effort, this is still a western perspective of Chinese perspective of Korean war - with a lot of unbased assumptions & narritives, which makes this just look like a Wikipedia read-out.
In order to improve, you should read (and link) the Chinese documentary on this topic instead of inserting irrelevant footage (as if they increased any credibility). Once you done the research I think any people with a little bit of a unbiased mind/ability to critical think would be able to create a better quality video.
wow! mind blown.
The only thing people forgotten is that Korea never needed to be partitioned and guided towards democracy because they had already achieved that themselves. For years they've resisted Japanese imperialism and had prepared for the day of their independence and Western arrogance ignored all of that.
Have us imperialism and its irrational fear of communism not interfered then we wouldn't have a psychotic cult of personality in the North which is a direct consequence of war crimes some of the most brutal war crimes committed by use imperialism causing psychological damage on the people.
The People's Republic of Korea was becoming history's first anarcho Christian communist state capitalism ruined that and turned to the South into an autocratic dictatorship the slaughtered tens of thousands of people and the north became hyper paranoid and authoritarian.
The Korean War is not connected with the Cold War in any way. The Korean War was HOT AS HELL.
damn... i think your mom is hot as hell too
Is this the Chinese point of view, or is it your self-righteous point of view?
A very typical example of analyzing the Chinese collective psyche, political landscape, and motivation through western lenses.
To an extent, the korean war to the chinese is similar to the war of 1812 to the Americans.
It may not have influenced much in the world but the Chinese thought they fought and survived against a superpower and it justified the CCP. propaganda or not it has some truth to it
In 1993 I knew a Chinese doctor in Zhongshan in Guangdong who had been a Chinese soldier in the Korean War. He told me that from his 13-man squad only he and another man survived the fighting in Korea. The fighting must have been ferocious.
Chapters
I sympathize with China. We, the U.S, are an aggressive colonial power. We aren’t in the East fighting for democracy but to submit others to our will.
I mean, despite what SK is now, the more you read up Syngman Rhee the more you realize the moral dubiousness of America. Another classic example of Franco and Pinochet, and..... name any anti-communist ultranationalist dictator the US supported during the Cold War, there are plenty to choose from.
@@LibeliumDragonfly Too be fair Kim wasnt better. He was not liked by the other korean communist and he assasinated any communist that was threat to his power. Only reason he became leader of the north is because Soviet forcefully disarmed other communist group.
Ccp is covertly invading the Philippines
US: War? What War?
CCP: How dare you refuse to admit our victory over you imperialist dogs!
Yhea, look at the death count and say you won
Victory is not determined by who lost more troops. US likes to pretend it is because their superior technology and reliance on air power ensures a high kill to death ratio, but it’s about who achieved their war goals.
@@JoeSmith-sl9bq Yhea, the South is free, so at least 50% mission accomplished
@COMMUNIST共产主义者CHINESE中国人 36,000 vs 200,000 sure.
@COMMUNIST共产主义者CHINESE中国人 Taiwan
This documentary is very biased. China did not want this fight, but when the US did a replay of the Japanese invasion...
I am Chinese, and everything you say is wrong and absurd. It is more reasonable to explain from a geopolitical perspective, referring to the Cuban missile crisis.
I call BS on OP.
If you're serious about understanding and explaining China's History, first at least get the damn Name right! Its CPC NOT CCP!
They are not ignorant, but deliberate. And the facts about China have nothing to do with it. They just want China to look like their enemy, the Soviet Union.
Mao was NOT alone after the Long March.
至于为什么要开展群众运动，就是在保证制度正确的情况下，由人民自己去发现异己，总归要比动用国家暴力机器动刀动枪的好，不仅共产主义要查走资派，资本主义国家也不允许共产主义吗，哪有允许资本主义搞清算，不允许共产主义排除异己呢？朋友之间交往也是这样，除非你看不起我，你可以追你喜欢的，我就不可以，你就是看不起我，我们之间不平等。共产主义是追求人人平等的。当然了，中国就不会发生像麦卡锡主义一样，用一些特别委员会羞辱和降低对国家有功的人的威信什么的，譬如奥本海默博士这些人。