@@purplenutria1351 yea in the past i was so afraid of leving therapy and feling lonly, but staying with a bad therapist only hurts in the long time, especialy if the therapist stop tring to do things and saying things and just wait for you to say somthing its really sucks, i remember going and being afraid everitime, thath im not going to be understood, i was so in anxiety thath everitime i went to theray my mind became blank, and i was capable of feling only anxiety and not talk about my actual issue, my anxiety covered everithing and stayed and issue for a long time even after i ended therapy with my therapist being angry at me for not being able to talk about my problems, yea a bad therapist sucks
@@lupoallupato3305 it depends the type of therapy youre trying, in my case i do cognitive therapy but some other people work with Gestalt, you need to probe whats do better to you
@@lupoallupato3305 yeah, a therapist being angry and stuck sounds like a much better criteria to stop therapy than "I don't feel good with them". You don't always feel good when you learn something new. The quesiton is if your therapist can work with it or not. And, Lupo, it sounds like both, you and the therapist ignored the fact that anxiety IS the actual issue and the one you had to work in the first place. It would help both in similar situations in the rest of your life (and, I'm sure you have a ton of those) and to progress with the therapy.
@@purplenutria1351 That's tricky if trust issues are part of what you're dealing with though. Sometimes therapy may not feel amazing at first even if it's working.
Riffing off of the whole coaches and therapists treating you with compassion- it also works when regular people (coworkers, classmates, acquaintances etc) treat you with compassion and respect. A majority of my own improvement in self-dialogue came when I started a new job and was able to consistently have people treat me and my opinions with respect and kindness. I didn't really notice in the moment, but looking back having that experience after 8-9 months of intense regret and shame for not getting a job out of undergrad and having to move back in with my (frankly judgmental) parents pulled me a good ways out of the depression I was in at the time.
100%. If someone understands your expectations of your self, and your challanges, it’s very easy from an outside perspective to see if you are being to hard on yourself. And they can point out the facts: «You have accomplished x, y, z despite of your challenges, and STILL it’s not good enough for yourself. You need to give yourself some slack/compassion, man.»
I took behavior modification classes in college to learn techniques to get people to treat me better by modifying their behavior so that they don't treat me bad. It actually helped immensely. BF Skinner is not wrong. These days I also apply a metaphorical approach to the broken window theory in interpersonal relationships to maintain social order in my life, so that things don't escalate into toxic behavior. The broken window theory works in tandem with behavior modification extremely well.
Yeah. I have a chronic illness which has made my already low self esteem worse. I think if people were more understanding of my disability, it would be easier to deal with.
"Therapy seems useless. Let me start by listing things that have improved." Negative thoughts being both manipulative and painfully obvious at the same time.
Personal Notes 8:17 - How to help someone tolerate shame. Modelling sitting with shame, picking it up like slang 11:40 - Sitting with it means it's outside of you
This is weirdly appropriate, I'm writing an essay on interventions for self esteem and shame in relapsing patients with psychosis, and this gave me inspiration for the part on therapy.
Weirdly resonant for me, too. Was talking about the placebo and nocebo effects with my classmates early this morning and then later talked about Dr K briefly cuz Ayurveda came up. Y’all know if Dr K has any content where he discusses “synchronicity?”
Self esteem is a tough thing. It's something that's conditioned into us over a lifetime, but people expect a therapist (or self help material) to fix in a couple of months. I don't know the solution - it seems kind of hopeless tbh
You think after $25,000 for grad school, and 3000 hours of post grad internship, at least one of my supervisors would've trained me in this?? Why was I never taught this? All they teach in grad school for MSW's is "evidence-based" CBT and short term solution focused therapy… It's a Band-Aid when what clients really need is “surgery”
6 therapists in and it's very hopeless so far. it's so discouraging, they all just sit there and wait for me to vent and spend the whole time venting instead of ACTIVELY HELPING ME.
The idea is that by venting you will become a little more self-aware to the whole problem causation mechanism and will then arrive at a point where you finally see the real source of your problems. It's absolutely meaningless to point someone to the root of their issues unless they have arrived there themselves (with very gentle nudging towards the right direction but without forcing any conclusions). People are so bad at seeing themselves that if you straight up tell someone what their problem is and why it is, they will dismiss it right away. Or, the other type actually agrees its exactly what their problem is about and then they slide back very soon because it was not their hard-fought conclusion. So the idea behind traditional therapy is that *you* are doing the heavy-lifting *using* your therapist as an impartial observer. They're almost like a mirror confirming or disproving ideas you may have about yourself. Their purpose is to ask you questions that will guide you back to the right path of thinking when you're warping your perception of yourself or some situations that take place with you. If you're not self-aware and trusting enough to regularly break out of your usual cycle of thinking when answering those questions, it will indeed lead nowhere, because they cannot and will not make conclusions for you.
That’s how therapy works. Therapists only guide the patient. It is you who’s able to identify the root causes of the problem. Therapists are there to guide us and ask right questions leading us to the solution of the problem.
@@marianneregalado2235 So what happens if the patient is mentally incapable of identifying the root of the problem due to whatever issues they may have? What is the process for helping someone who for whatever reason could never do that?
The first thing I ask of therapists is for practical tips. If they can't provide those I move on. You will eventually find a therapist happy to give you coping tips and they will get you to open up slowly. But I absolutely despise the first session "tell me about your childhood" approach
Therapy in my country sucks, Honestly they don't care about your own well being, They just end up making you feel guilty to feel suicidal, To the point that many people would rather die than to seek help
I think one thing I've noticed with my lack of success with therapy is that every therapist I've encountered tries to throw the same solution at every problem. Is the client depressed? Ok we need to do CBT and force CBT and keep doing CBT even though it's clearly not working. There are so many other types of therapy out there that I've never been exposed to and maybe one can work better for me. I got tired of dealing with CBT therapists all the time who didn't want to think outside of the box or try to actually help, so I gave up on therapy after trying it for 8 years. Also it was a huge money sink for me even with insurance. Around $70-90 a session weekly adds up and when you don't see any progress, why bother to pay for something so useless?
I agree. I've been going to therapy (based on Jung) for 2 years now and yes, it took a long time and lots of money, but finally my feelings and thoughts about myself and the world are changing, and not because I try to forcefully replace "bad" thoughts with "good" ones, but because I actually believe the "good" thoughts I have now, and most importantly - they come naturally to me now, my self-esteem is so much better (having said that, besides therapy I do a lot of "self-help" work myself, I guess the combination of the two did it for me). And CBT always seemed too... shallow and forced. Or at least not for me.
CBT is a top-down therapy, where you try to use thoughts to change your feelings. Stuff like EMDR is bottom-up, where you process stuck experiences/emotions to fix your erroneous thinking. When it works right you just naturally feel different afterwards without having to “try” or use techniques. CBT is really good for some things but not when people have deep trauma, or got bad programming as a small child who didn’t have cognitive abilities. Basically I see CBT, in many situations, as trying to talk yourself out of feeling certain ways, which we all know, does not work.
Has Dr K addressed wealth inequality and mental health? I feel like i can't relate to any of these videos cuz I'm fucking poor. Yeah yeah keep doing therapy when its not working and youre broke
@@Sheph100 That's the core problem I find with a lot of this. Therapists and Psychiatrists (like most doctors) never want to even consider discussing the financial impact or, alternately, want to push people into medical loan products their offices offer. This question is really "Should I stop trying (at $100+ per session and a huge time sink)?" In no other scenario would we say "Yes you should continue throwing money at the problem when all of the attempts to solve the problem are failing."
@@RvLeshrac You make such good points. I used to think that the best use of my money in the world was therapy - since my mental health is the basis of everything else. I figured, if I feel better, I can make more money at my business. But after spending at least 10k out of pocket over the last 6 years, I'm not sure my money and time has been well spent.
Easy for a therapist to say “continue therapy”. That’s how they get paid. If I failed at my job for years, I may try to convince my boss not to fire me.
If I tried therapy while still living among people who constantly treat me like shit, it would not have enough power to truly help me. I'm lucky to be in an environment that supports healthy growth now. My friends also got helped with CBT but each case is so different and may require different tools, methods and approaches.
Exactly. And that's the case very often. Mental health is still somewhat of a taboo topic, resulting in alot of ignorance and fallacious appeals downplaying severity. Especially in developing countries (while not understating the ignorance in developed countries), saying you need psychological help is reacted to with disgust and dismissal. This issue is much more complex than the premise of this video suggests. While therapy may not be useless in a vacuum, environmental, social, socioeconomic and cultural factors often either don't make it accessible or leave people alone with their life situation they have no power over changing and getting out of being exploited or abused.
Dr. K I know you might never see this, but I might as well post this since you always talk about “planting a seed no matter if you think it won’t grow” or something like that lol. I just wanted to say you have really blessed me a lot and your very good at what you do. I hope you continue helping others, because the work you do really is making a difference in this world. I wish nothing but the best for you and your family; and I hope you will keep sharing your positive messages with the world.
I agree that therapy is important and can really help. But the problem is that therapy is so damn expensive. How tf do people expect everyone to be able to pay $80 per session.
Therapy was not of much use to me. Tried 4 different therapists over the years. Waste of time and money. The work I did on myself as a result of my own research DID work.
@@Dimitris_Half I wanted to get right to it, face my SPECIFIC problems, choose a method (or methods) of actual therapy and get to work! They wanted to wander around in the weeds, speculate and waste time... for which of course - I was paying...
9:20 - 9:50 "if you continue to work with your therapist and your therapist demonstrates hope, you'll start to model that behaviour. You'll pick it up almost like slang" I have to disagree with you doctor. The patient's problem is that therapy is useless for him in the first place. The patient said, that he tried several therapists, coaching, CBT and whatnot and nothing worked. Now after all this, you suggest to the patient, that he should do therapy and you explain the process how therapy works? While what you are saying is useful for some people and factual even probably (I am not in the medical field at all), this does not address the patients problem at all. It's more like ignoring it. When the patient tells you his problem: "I've been to several therapists, coaches, tried CBT and other methods and nothing works, what am i supposed to do?" Doctor K: "If you go to therapy and your therapist demonstrates hope, you'll start to model that behaviour. You'll pick it up almost like slang." To be honest, this "solution" sounds extremely ignorant, disregarding but good for general advertisement. This sounds like teaching a 7 year old how to write with a pencil that has no lead. No matter how hard the kid tries to write on paper, nothing is written on it. The kid keeps complaining about it, but you keep saying that he should continue writing and "somehow" he'll begin writing. Which we all know is useless and will never happen, because we are missing a vital component.
Yeah, I think psychiatrists overestimate their effectiveness. Even if you have a good therapist (hard to find), you can’t always afford the therapy. I think it’s the fault of the system as a whole.
Finding the right therapist can cost thousands or tens of thousands of dollars, and even then it's not certain you find one. At a certain point the mentality shifts to therapists being like prostitutes, only doing it for the money and not to genuinely help you, which eliminates any hope of finding professional help.
Well they are. Psychologists don’t want you fixed, if you were fixed you’d never have to go back; they want your money and maybe feeling better enough to make it to the next week to shill out another 100 bucks. I improved my life way more just figuring this stuff out myself, all psychs wanted to do was just make faces and barely pay attention. All going to therapy did was keep me from buying self protection for the next three years because I wasn’t finishing his session that week.
Dude “sit with it” I always imagined the feeling inside of me and was just white knuckling it until I accepted it. It’s literally x50 easier to do it his way and it feels way better jeez
I'd like to know what do you mean by "the other way". The way I understand what Dr k said is letting the feeling be and considering it as a part of yourself and not "you", a kid of dissociation from the feeling.
@@itsmebougie thanks for letting me know. I know of this for quite some time now and I find myself never being able to find resolve in this process of "sitting with" an emotion. Since it's always moving there's always something new to sit with. Even though that is totally unrealistic I'd love an internal time limit that let you know and tell you:"ok you're done thanks sitting with me I'm going now, byebye"
Im inclined to remember a quote i heard a while back. Awhile ago, I got into the sales business. And i read an article that compared sales training to therapy. "Sales training is like therapy, it is what you get out of it". Translation: Whether you believe you can, or you cant. I saw so many people come into the business with a horrrible attitude, not valuing anything they were taught. And eventually they left. I saw many other people come into the business with a postive mindset, and made a killing!!! In other words, no matter what help is offered, it doesnt mean a damn until you want it.
Thank you Dr. k, this was exactly what I needed to hear today! This is my first time in private practice, first time having clients longer than 3 to 6 months… I'm hitting the eight and nine month mark with clients and we were both getting in that frantic panic desperate place you described… Now knowing that this is normal and hearing that it's OK to continue with the mindful self compassion stuff, I personally feel less shame as a therapist
This is not exactly my story, but it resonates a lot. I’ve been to multiple therapists for trauma. The first one was outright bad, misapplied EMDR and made me worse. Another was good until she turned on me one day after 2 years. Then I had another one do that. After that, more bad experiences trying to find new therapists. Then I went to a super famous therapist for a really expensive intensive and that didn’t work either. It’s very hard to believe I will ever get back to where I was before I “unboxed” my trauma. I do have a therapist now that I feel ok about, but I am not sure we are making any progress. After doing the super famous therapist and getting nowhere, it’s hard to keep the hope alive.
Firstly, I'm really sorry about your experience, it sounds really disheartening. My first therapist ever was quite bad too and I was so afraid to look for another one because I thought that maybe I'm expecting too much or all are the same but eventually a friend recommended me one and I gave it a go. It's better now. Secondly, a thing I've learned recently is that we're supposed to be more open about what we want/need/expect of our therapists. Assertiveness is always a good thing and if they don't react well, at least you stop losing your time with them sooner and know that you have to keep looking. Maybe it's like dating, or finding a really good burger place. Some people don't need much or are lucky enough to find what they're looking for fast. For others it may take a while. In the end you're doing this for yourself, so my advice is to not lose hope because you deserve to be the healthiest you can be.
@@9Nikko8 Thank you for the kind words. I'm pretty sure you meant something different, but I started thinking about what I (should) expect of my therapists. 1. I expect them to apply protocols correctly, and not disregard the preparatory and safety steps. I expect them, if treatment with those protocols is not going as expected, to stop and discover what’s going wrong. If the problem cannot be resolved, I expect them to realize the protocol seems contraindicated. I expect them to try something else instead of just going on with something that’s making me worse. 2. I expect them, if they get countertransference towards me, to seek consultation and work through their own feelings, instead of terminating my therapy for their convenience. 3. I expect them to only take me on if they feel they have the expertise to work with me. Don't terminate me 8 months later claiming you JUST NOW realized you don't have the expertise to work with me. 4. I expect them to keep up on the current thinking in their field. The therapist mentioned above was not up on current thinking about Complex Trauma, and refused to become up to date because "she didn't have time." Even though she was supposedly a specialist in it!! 5. I expect them to only take me on if they can reasonably expect to keep working with me. I had a therapist do several sessions of intake with me. Then she became pregnant and said I should work with someone else because her maternity leave would cause a disruption in our attachment work. Since she was deliberately trying to get pregnant when we first met, why take me in the first place? Especially knowing my history of therapeutic terminations? 6. I expect them to be kind and thoughtful people who want to make me feel safe with them. The therapist above referred me to another who was a rude, thoughtless jerk who was doing in-person therapy without a mask before the vaccine, flouting our state's mask mandate. After dismissing my covid concerns as ridiculous, he spent most of our consultation threatening to report a former therapist of mine whom I was very fond of. Wow, what a great guy. Now if a therapist can meet the above criteria, THEN I will try to be more open minded about things they say/observe/suggest. I know that the things we need to see about ourselves are hard and we may reject them at first. I try to do that with my current therapist, who so far, meets all the above criteria :-) Thanks again and I wish you well on your journey.
ACT (Acceptance and Commitment Therapy - one of many blends of CBT and Buddhism inspired therapies) has an exercise called "creative hopelessness" where they list all the things that have failed before in an effort to induce a sense of hopelessness. The ultimate goal is to lead the client to recognize that the things they have done to, for example, eliminate anxiety have not worked, and maybe nothing can work...so maybe the problem is the goal of eliminating anxiety. ACT calls this the "agenda of control" and considers this an impediment to coping with difficult emotional experiences. Once the client realizes they can't eliminate difficult emotions, they can work toward trying to accept them as being potentially adaptive and appropriate responses to the struggles we face in life. I've seen a lot of overlap between your general approach and ACT, so it may be something worth learning about.
try Acceptance and commitment therapy, as a ACT-psychologist we focus not on the origins of the problem but partly accepting and distancing from the fact your brain produces thought like ' i am not good enough' ' or i can't do this'. It is very effective.
I've heard of ACT and I'm trying to apply it in my life even though I don't always remember to. I've had at least a bit of results of it myself, so I have an idea on what distancing from my thoughts feel like. Hopefully I'll get better at practicing it and getting more out of it. I just wish that methods like ACT are more know and accessable since positive psychology isn't for everyone. It most certainly isn't for me!
@@honeybnoir824 I am not sure if they have any good books of it in English, but we have a lot of 'acceptance and commitment therapy for practioneers' books here in holland (for instance HOW TO ACT by Gijs Janssen). These books give literal examples for you to read, exercises for you to do, it's very practical and might help you in your journey. However, if you problems are too big (you seek too many ways to have 'control', then other therapies might be more effective. Unfortunately, if u want ACT it is normally not fully insured. My clients get like half the price if they have extra insurance. However, if u do ACT, quick changes will come, if people are not helped after 15 sessions then other therapy forms might be needed. If it is effective, it normally goes quite fast in your new way of looking at certain things in life.
@@honeybnoir824 BTW start with giving your brain a name. Look this up might be online somewhere. It helps you disconnect from your thoughts. If your brain starts like shit man u cannot do this this is waaaay to hard for you. You can be like, ooh there he goes again, 'brain' are you having a bad day again, thanks for the advice. It makes defusion (distancing) easier.
I've done therapy a couple of times before, and a wierd thing happens. It's almost as if I've unwittingly tied my identity to being anxious and screwed up for so long, that I think theres no way I can change, and will almost fight back against the therapy. There's an element of ego to it: MY problems are so big that there's no way therapy can solve them. I went in with that mindset and came out not really feeling any better. It's all a self fulfilling prophecy. I was also a bit of a smartass know-it-all as a kid, and was naturally sceptical about basically everything, especially therapy, mainly because improvement is so slow, it's hard to observe.
If you try to address the cause of your anxiety you are shaking your whole reality, and that is terrifying for your ego because it created your anxiety to protect itself. The only way to break those anxiety responses is to push through those defense mechanisms
In my opinion if you are very self aware and observant of what led to your circumstances of being down or troubled as well understand steps to getting back to your normal self or better self then therapy is can be a waste of time.
I’m autistic with a good bit of C-PTSD. I got nowhere with multiple years’ worth of CBT. I got a lot better in a short time with EMDR. I think a distinction needs to be made between therapeutic approaches, and that the mental health sciences, given their very primitive and undeveloped state, still have a long way to go before they can give patients the care they ought to have. With any given patient, whether or not any particular therapeutic approach works or not is more a matter of dumb luck than anything else
The main take away I got from this video is you are not your depression, anxiety, doubts or fears. When you begin to think of it as an external threat/obstacle, instead of something internal to yourself, you can start taking the first steps to overcoming it.
Also, CBT and related approaches are not for everyone, but there are so many more forms of therapy. Psychodynamic approaches also work very well on shame and personality disorders and are very different in their methods, so if someone doesn't really vibe well with CBT exercises and mentality really should try it.
I almost wish I didn't learn about the placebo thing for medication because now my anxiety is gonna make me think about that if I take medication I might be tricking myself into thinking it's working and then nocebo myself into thinking it isn't working. Some meta shit
I think that one thing that person could try to think about is how they benefit from shame. I've come to believe that if we want to get rid of some part of us and nothing seems to be working then maybe it's because on some level we need this thing and we cannot get rid of it unless we built something healthier to come in its place.
@@arraikcruor6407 well imagine that you're living at home and are completely dependent on your parents in every way. Say you have no social skills, no life skills so to speak, and you feel immense shame for that. If you would get rid of the shame that's keeping you from getting a job, getting friends etc. then you would have to be responsible for your choices - but what if you don't know how to do that? If you keep the shame, you'll never be responsible for anything. You'll likely feel shitty, but you're safe in a way because that is the only way you know.
@@lihie.crochet I don't have to imagine it, that's reality. I've gotten past the shame now and I'm actually making progress, I have my driving test in 3 days and after I get my license I'm going to start working.
I relate to the poster a lot. A lot of my trauma is from childhood, yet I can't remember any specific incidents. Whenever something comes up I forget it later despite how emotionally influencing they can be. I do have an immense sense of shame due to my upbringing and simultaneously I am extremely eager and desperate to change, which is clearly coming through to my therapist. My first therapist, despite not being very experienced, helped me a bit with this by instinctively saying "That's hard. How do you get up in the morning?" I said "With the hope things will be better today." And I've been clinging to this ever since. My current therapist is slowly chipping away at my shame by validating me to the point where I pick up the things she says. I also kinda pick up things Dr K says sometimes. So I am kinder to myself and I sound like a wise priest by dropping quotes and its cool as fuck.
Learning to love yourself can be hard, especially since a lot of self-help revolves around "internalising" and "taking responsibility" for problems. But you have to learn that that is different from beating yourself up over failure.
Same. It's like I wish I could explain the circumstances or what is wrong with me but I can't come to a clear conclusion. One of these days maybe I will know what the problem is and solve it.
@@saintboimike Prayer helps the people that it does work for. For others, it is useless and telling they didn't pray hard enough just makes them more miserable. Reddit is full of people who were like that.
Someone left a comment about when one should change therapists. I think thats a good idea. My therapist never listened or trusted me and she misdiagnosed me. Her therapy sessions let me to suicidal ideation and I had to admit myself to an inpatient clinic
I'm watching this right before my weekly therapy. I've been working with my therapist(who took many many many years to find, because I've never felt I've ever found someone who meshed well with me, and there's also the fact that I wasn't quite ready to "let go" of my ego and truly commit to working on myself and accepting help) for almost two years now. Therapy is a long term commitment, and I'm only just starting to make some real progress. It's a continual effort, and there's no guarantees. You have to be willing to let go and do the work. You have to be willing to admit that you don't have all the answers. You have to be willing to spend nights crying or even screaming into your pillow, feeling the emotions that you've buried deep within yourself as a coping mechanism. Therapy is about breaking down our inefficient strategies and building new ones from the ground up, ultimately making us more resillient and able to handle our current challenges with healthier strategies.
ive never been to therapy but i need to go due to a bunch of things going on in my head due to everything that is going on in the world is consuming my brain and it is causing me to have manic depressive episodes that causing me to sleep at least 14 hours a day for a week+ along with extreme level of anxiety that cause me to hear voices in my head which lasted off and on for about a month and half and just recently connecting the dots of why it was happening. ive been come so disgusted and hatred for what this world has turned into these last 2 years and i have no idea how to deal with it, i see my psych in a week and i need to have her write me a referral to a therapist on my own terms outside of in patient treatment when i was younger.
Over the past three years, I've had the opportunity to engage in therapy with various therapists, both in individual and group settings. While this experience has had its ups and downs, I must admit that I'm not completely satisfied with the overall outcome. Although therapy did have some positive impact on my life, I feel that the improvements were quite limited, considering the significant amount of time and money invested. Interestingly, I found that participating in therapy groups brought about more notable improvements compared to individual therapy. However, as time passed and I attended more sessions, I noticed a decline in its effectiveness, and my enthusiasm waned during the third therapy group, which I found to be quite boring. Reflecting on my therapeutic journey, I've come to realize that my comfort level during the sessions might have hindered deeper changes in my life. It's possible that I have reached a point where I'm uncertain if therapy can offer further support, or if I've already made significant progress on my own. I strongly believe that substantial changes are necessary in my life, but I'm unsure if the type of therapy I've engaged in so far is the best fit for facilitating these changes. Gestalt therapy, in theory, intrigued me, and I found inspiration in the works of Frederik Perlz. However, the therapeutic experience itself felt too comfortable and lacked the necessary level of challenge to drive real change. Perhaps exploring a more radical and aggressive therapeutic approach, similar to Perlz's ideas, could be beneficial for me. I'm open to exposing myself to a different type of therapy that can push me outside my comfort zone and drive meaningful transformation. In conclusion, I don't discount the value of therapy entirely, but I believe it's time for me to explore alternative approaches that can better support the profound changes I seek in my life. I am grateful for the insights gained from therapy, and I am now on a journey to find the kind of therapeutic support that aligns with my current needs and aspirations. Any recommendations or insights are welcome as I embark on this new path of growth and self-discovery. Thank you.
where are the therapists who actually do all these things like CBT, and the other 3 letter abbreviations? The therapists I've been to just sit there and offer less engagement and insight then a random stranger in a bar would if I chatted to them about my life
it took me over a year of therapy to get to the root of just some of my problems, and before that it always just felt like useless chit-chat. I think it's quite normal that the first months feel that way. I only cried at therapy after over twelve months, and that was a breakthrough moment.
This post sounds like something I would have written... before I started coaching. I'm starting to feel hopeful now, and that's more than therapy and meds have accomplished. I encourage this poster to try coaching if they already haven't (it has been two years, after all), as there is hope after shame and low self-esteem.
Mirror neurons are so trippy like that. Almost like a "reverse Pavlovian response" (Pavlov hears a bell and has to double check if it's actually time to feed the dogs.) I've definitely noticed that some therapists ended up "catching my hopelessness" instead of working with mine😊 First principle of music "repition legitimizes". Even in my own work With people it's imperative that I dawn the attitude of someone who enjoys working with this stuff. Something about that example "I just said it and nothing bad happened" infront of them, helps indirectly allow them go give greater permission to try. Also why stories and metaphors are some of the best tools. Just an example where things don't blow up become the wrenches you throw into thier distortion. Do you think like the difference in effectiveness from meds to placebo transfers over from person to story? (Like having a person there is 35% effective, but having the right example being 50%). Not trying to say Doc's do nothing, but when I look at something like fortune telling? They may not know what a mirror neuron is, but they sure know how to use it.
Dr. K, I respect you sincerely, please review how the statistics of drug effects and placebo/nociebo actually work. The efficacy of anti depressants doesn't mean that an individual for whom anti depressants work (number to treat) is effective to a threshold of placebo effect and then the drug boosts that effect. It means that half the time medication is given it has no real effect, but some people will still feel better because of the placebo effect. Nocebo is when one has not taken a treatment but has negative "effects" associated with the non-intervention. Example an adverse reaction to a saline shot during a double blind vaccine trial. Nocebo is manifesting a harmful reaction in the absence of a treatment induced cause.
I Went to therapy twice. first time it was good second time therapist was so angry and kept facepalming and yelling told me to leave after like 15 min and booked me away so i might not come back xD. This is the 2nd best rated one in my country.
This is exactly why I don't bother trying therapy. I don't want to go through 5 therapists to find the right one, and then spend a decade to feel better. I'd rather stay at my current negative baseline than spend all the extra time and energy to only be 10% better.
Idk bro. If you're looking about it that way, how much do think you really need therapy? Do you feel like you're functioning well? To some people (like me) we might be functioning at 30%, 50%, 70% of our capacity. We might have problems affecting our ability to lead normal lives. Imagine having a really hard time studying, holding job, or even starting, doing basic things... At that point you're hoping therapy can make you whole again and not remain being a fraction of your former self. You want to reach your true potential but you're being restricted so much. If you're dealing with problems you desperately want to fix, I'd say that the search for a therapist that's you're great with is worth it. Psychiatry + therapy is the better combo btw. Also, you don't know how long your it might take for your therapy to work or if they're a match for you. You'll never know if you don't try. My first therapist was amazing but them after I moved away, the next one I wasn't good with. I've had multiple therapists over the years, and I now know how to identify a therapist that's good for you.
@@serehero4722 I mean... my anxiety is so bad that I started an internet based business so I dont have to go to work or talk on the phone or leave my house anymore. My gf drives me everywhere. I have no offline friends. So I probably need therapy about as much as anyone not in a crisis like being suicidal possibly could. Still easier to take the pretty bad but known path compared to the scary unknown one. Mostly it just feels like being overburdened in Skyrim like I'm always carrying 300lbs on my back. Eventually you just get accustomed to the weight and cant even imagine what a relief it would be to take it off any more
@@GurtGobain oh wow. That's amazing. You're a really blessed guy. You've been able to build a life going around the whole anxiety problem. You've got a nice income that doesn't require you leaving your home, you have an amazing girlfriend you loves you. She takes care of transportation too. I can see how you've build a pretty comfortable life for yourself and not have to go outside into the unknown world. However, you are while you've been able to do all this, your crippling your potential. You've got so much potential! Just look at just how far you've come! Could you imagine yourself in a a world where you have friends, can go out to restaurants, visit amusement parks, zoos, anime conventions, travel the world with your girlfriend? I think therapy and psychiatric help (and Dr K's guide, meditation) would really help. And they'll take things slow. I'm not asking you to tumble down your walls. I'm asking you to open your door and take a step outside into the world for a couple minutes at a time. You have a debuff that you have to chip slowly over time. But it's possible and it's WORTH IT! That's what I ultimately would want you to take away from all this. Being able to manage your anxiety and get it down to a point where you can do out and do more things in this world, live more of what life has to offer. You gotta yearn for that. And with your girlfriend, she can help you take that first step in finding that great person (therapist) who can help solve that debuff in your armor.
i find to be very good this mixture of good humor while being serious. to me gives me hope that there's no need to be over strict to talk about important things. i believe that some times is easier to learn and articulate in a lighter environment.
this explains why i feel like i have been battling mental illness my whole life. the biggest issue for me is shame, i guess it's a really tough opponent.
I don’t think so vsauce has a full episode exploring the answer to your question in “mind field” show. You should watch it. It’s really entertaining and informative
@@yoooyoyooo Maybe it does but I was thinking here. Antidepressants are still responsible for 30% right? So maybe when we notice the difference our brain does the rest of the work because we think the drugs are working. I don't actually know what I'm talking about. Just a thought
Honestly I feel like most people think that they're "beyond help" or that their mental health issues are "too complex and/or too serious" to be treated when they first seek out mental healthcare. It's not uncommon for people to not only feel overwhelmed, but to feel as of they're somehow uniquely challenged or some type of special case that can't be treated with any available methods. I know that I used to think this many years ago when I first began seriously seeking out mental health treatment/therapy. It must have been quite evident that I felt this way too because my therapist/counselor finally got fed up with my crap one day and said something rather simple to me that completely changed my perspective while I was going through an outpatient AODA program and getting treated for anxiety and depression. I should preface by saying that my therapist was a *very* pragmatic, no-nonsense, blunt/direct approach kind of guy that didn't put up with any BS or wasted time whatsoever. So one day I'm going on and on about my issues and how "different" my situation is and how nothing is working, blah blah blah. I was being so melodramatic and looking back, frankly I feel like I was pretty pathetic. Anyhow I finally finish ranting and winging and he's silent for a few moments before he leans forward and smirks saying, "Jake, you are nothing but a garden variety dope fiend with some very treatable mental health issues... I've met and treated hundreds, if not thousands just like you over the years, and God-willing I'll live to treat many more. You are not special. Your problems are not unique. Everyone experiences what you are now at some point or another under different circumstances and to varying degrees. Get over yourself already so we can start doing some of this therapy sh!t and begin constructing a workable plan to make you a functioning and productive healthy member of society once again...". Some may think this harsh, but it's absolutely what I needed to here. I'm the type who often responds well to the "swift kick in the @ss" approach combined with a dose of reality and some much needed humility, along with a dash of perspective. To be totally honest I believe that more people could really benefit from this type of tactic rather than being treated with "kid gloves" and constantly having their feelings indulged and/lr validated even when they're completely irrational and nonsensical. An all too common belief that I see perpetuated these days is that "everyone's feelings are valid" when this just isn't true or even realistic whatsoever, and I just don't think that this is at all constructive. By operating on this type of logic, we can often end up indulging mental illness rather than treating it. It's just not healthy... I also feel that far too many people have come to see therapy as a sort of "passive solution" or "magic fix" to their problems, kinda like how many used to think of psychiatric medication. You know, like how people used to think, "Oh I'm depressed? Well I'll just take a pill to fix that and then I'll be okay." when medication is really just one tool in the proverbial toolbox. I feel like many people have begun to develop the same mentality about therapy. They just show up to their appointments and kinda go through the motions without ever actually investing any real effort into making it work, then after a few months they get frustrated and wonder why their life hasn't miraculously turned around, then they turn to blaming the practicioner/clinician. First and foremost, therapy and mental health treatment is supposed to be a *process*, not an instant fix. It takes time to actually reap any benefit from it, but more importantly it requires *active engagement* and participation on behalf of the patient in order to ever make any real progress. One must take the initiative and find the motivation to take an active role in developing and executing their treatment plan, otherwise one is just wasting everyone's time. As it is often said, "It only works if you work it!". It is also important to know how to advocate for oneself in one's care and know when to speak up if something isn't right. At the end of the day it is YOUR healthcare and you are paying for services rendered, so it is up to you as the patient/consumer to dictate how and when your care is provided. Anyhow that is kind of a different topic altogether and I digress... Ultimately unless patients actually actively participate in their care and engage the process accordingly, they are never going to experience any progress nor achieve the results that they desire. Oftentimes just seeing a therapist or counselor regularly and "talking things out" rarely - if ever - actually generates any tangible positive outcome, and a treatment plan typically requires genuine action and invested effort to deliver results. Yes folks, that means you have to actually try and - *gasp* - take real action to affect any change. Truly a novel concept I know, but maybe just give it a chance for once and see how it goes. Who knows, you might even just amaze yourself with what you're capable of when you actually put your mind to it...
I actually highkey relate to this person's story and it's one of the core reasons I myself became a therapist and practice in the manner through which I provide care. There are other approaches and specialties in counseling, and it sounds to me like this person needs a referral to a more narrative, Gestalt, or psychodynamic therapist and perhaps give up on the relationship with that therapist or that kind of therapeutic approach rather than therapy altogether. I hope someday we can be more holistic and less 1-to-1 when we consider treating individuals in the clinical sphere, because what good is improved behaviors such that you're "well-adjusted to a profoundly sick society" when you feel deep shame and incompetence and self-loathing. It IS possible to treat folks' presenting concerns while also attending to the simultaneous process or reauthorization when it comes to their stance about themselves and their lives. It's possible to be more humble/person-centered and less impositional and to assist our clients with the sorts of things which will positively contribute to their self-concept alongside the elimination of "negative" behaviors or thought patterns (e.g., Raiders of the Lost Ark).
I've failed 15 times in therapy and my 16th time is failing lol. Most of them were on the NHS though and the NHS has a history of really not understanding that I'm not criminally minded or something. Their view of me is beyond dim. I'm not a bad person but every interaction with the NHS, mental health or physical, tries to teach me that I'm evil. Thankfully i have higher than expected self esteem given all the life beatings i get i should have nearly zero self esteem.
That's so true. A lot of people go to therapy with the belief that they don't need to do any personal work; just talk and vent to their therapist and their problems will correct themselves. If you're doing that, you're not gonna get better. Therapy is a powerful tool, but it doesn't fix anything.
I kind of hoped this was a different type of question. Like i seen several therapists, and not one seemed to care OR listen. They gave me their "go to" talk, that wasnt relevant to my life. And im not saying this because i wasnt listening or trying, but because im certain and i gave them a fair amount of trust. Therapy for me seems pointless because half the therapists just dont give a damn. And as a client, especially with issues related to social aspects, its hard to estimate if the therapists is draining your money and not caring, or geniuly caring but simply not making you feel as good as you hoped. I been to four therapists, most of the others were booked out for years. Therapy helped me in a funny way though. Because my therapists were misunderstanding me, insulting me, yelling at me.... i HAD to step up for myself, i had decided that im sick and tired of other peoples opinions, and that i will NOT simply sit down quietly whensomeone yells at me. They made me understand that no matter in what position someone is, they arent necessarily good at their job, smart, capable, or worthy of my time. The therapists i spent YEARS talking to, were a waste of my time. And for the first time in my life i told someone to shut up, and broke all ties with them. After i been let down by three therapists, i decided to also cut ties with my family because i then knew how relieving it is to cut toxic people who dont understand you out of your life. But still i wish therapists had to be tested, and wouldnt be just a bunch of arrogant snobs who talk to the wall and cost a lot. Not all of them, but too many are like this.
Therapy is not useless, but most therapists are. Kudos to you, Doc, for breaking the tragically destructive "50-minute hour". It's strange watching you making amazing people cry in public... that's not typical behavior for a shrink. I hope it helps, because some of the people you have talked with have earned incredible lives. Hopefully they will find it.
My experience with therapists are that they are incompetent.. Therapy is useless unless you are able to find the 1/1000 therapist that is actually able
That's true to some extent. But it's also true that patients with certain problems will go to great lengths to prove that the therapist is useless, so they can confidently say therapy doesn't work.
What is the value of therapy? Like what is the value of talking through things with a licensed therapist as opposed to just venting with my dog when we go for a walk. Talking with a therapist feels like talking to yourself anyways, they always reflect everything back and make you answer your own questions anyway. So I ask again, what is the value of talking to a therapist? Seems like you'd get the same value just meditating on your problems and thinking up your own solutions
I just went through therapy 5 months ago for severe anxiety, 4 day treatment (originally used for OCD here) worked great. Even though not quite got help with something else I need therapy for, which I actually cant get therapy for over here in my age group. But went down from 104% on the anxiety test to 34%
There is only one real way to overcome low self esteem and that is through accomplishments and competences. I do not think this person is wrong to think that a therapist won't help him in what he views at the moment their biggest problems because it very much sounds as if a therapist isn't there to help you as a mentor and/or a guider which is what it sounds like this person really needs.
@@Twiti47 Basically absolutely get out there and do something or build your knowledge on something even if it's small. For example can you ever be confident about talking about a sports team if you don't even know one teams names or players? But if you've followed sports for years you will have confidence talking about the teams and players for hours. This stems not from some abstract thing as inner rational or anything a therapist might work with you on at least in my opinion but rather because you've actually worked towards learning something you or even others might care about and learned to do it good.
Therapy is like anything else, if you don't put the work in you don't get anything out of it. If you think someone is going to say something to you to entirely change your life and inner brain function you deserve to waste your money
It took years to get rid of my shame. However my fear will still creep up. I just kept chipping away at it. I will tell you the bulk of it was shedded in Crestone Colorado. What happened in Crestone? I was surrounded by nature. Everything fell away from me. All distractions where pretty much gone. I could just be me. Clarity of thought came upon me. I realized that I wasn't who I thought I was. I realized that I wasn't the person I projected to others. I was just me. I came to accept myself...the good the bad and the ugly. I used this terminology because good and bad was all I was taught. Religion can do this to you. I even dropped that terminology all together. I now try to use beneficial or not beneficial. I also try to use acceptable or unacceptable. I left the christian church. I is to ridge. I'm more than that. I learned no one could love a me that wasn't real. They were loving and image. Love couldn't be felt by me because of that. I still fight not to project this image. I'm not always successful at it. It's a process.
What do you do when you don't have enough money to keep doing therapy for a long time and have already been to several psychologists ("only" for "normal" talks though, like they were a lot more like counselings than actual therapies), "failed", so you kinda lost hope in them too? "Failed" meaning that some of them didn't help at all, and some of them helped only for a few sessions, then you felt things going back to the way they were. I've heard/read that the more progress you make, the harder relapses hit you. I can imagine this being at least partly true, because if you take a look at it logically, it's more disappointing to go to a 3 on a 1-to-10 scale from an 8 than from a 5, right? That's what I've been experiencing lately, and I think that I have achieved this 8-ish mood by myself. But when I'm feeling a 1 or 2 I can't help but think "am I going to struggle with anxiety/depression forever?", "is there anything or anyone that can cure me?"... It's so frustrating and I feel so hopeless at times like these. In addition: my country's psychologists are mostly like what I described above - basically you just vent to them and they might offer some advice, but they're mostly there to just listen and let you figure things out on your own (these kinda professionals were also in one of Dr. K's videos). Frankly, I don't want to pay someone to only listen to me. But psychiatrists here aren't better either: they immediately want to describe meds for you, or if you don't like that idea then "go to a psychologist"... I'm not sure about coaches, tbh I'm not sure they're legit in my country. So that only leaves me with two options if I wanna get outside help: either go to a real therapist (which I'm trying to do, but CBT therapists are currently have their hands full in my city), or look for an online opportunity like Betterhelp. Sorry, this ended up being a long, messy vent, I'm not sure if I had an end goal in mind with this comment, lol. Just wanted to share the thoughts that popped up in my mind during this video. I envy people who are able to find a therapist suitable for them on their first or second try; I really wanna experience that feeling, but right now money is tight, so I can only go to a social insurance one (not sure if it's the same in English or not, but usually a health service that's already paid by your taxes), and those are really few, and usually not too good in quality...
I read your comment and I have experienced the same thing. In my country it is very expensive to get any psychological help, you have to wait months to be seen and when you see someone, they listen to you talk and then send you away. There’s no analysis, no treatment or therapy. I’ve been through this multiple times over many years and the result is always the same. Waiting three months to see a registered nurse and another three until seeing an actual psychiatrist, who then listens, does nothing, and returns you to visits with a nurse...well it’s hard to say this provides any real help. I feel you, friend. Take care of yourself.
Can you please make some content on how to sit with things? Instead of feeling them? I'm totally confused with the whole meditation notion of like, thoughts not being me, or feelings being external and not my experience, I don't get it and would love some guidance
I've tried 8 therapists, each time whole-heartedly believing that each time would make the difference, only to be met with an attitude that equates to "wow that sucks." You talk about therapists exhausting all resources like Dr. House, when most will not get nearly that far. I feel no animosity to these people as I have no doubt they were all dealing with caregiver burnout. I'm saying this because I think as a whole we are ignoring the larger problems with therapy and its accessibility. Hardly anyone wants to state the obvious fact that many *therapists* are simply not effective for very human reasons. We aren't exploring the real possibility that many providers simply don't want to work with harder cases and are subconsciously filtering them out, or the fact insurance is based on "results." Don't even get me started on the therapists that lie or misrepresent their credentials. It's very common and is the main reason none of my therapists worked out. Everyone wants to scream "go get help," only to divert their eyes and mumble something about "finding the right fit" when care is not avavlable in a financially or emotionally sustainable way. Like with many things, we're patting our backs for catching the smaller fish while ignoring the whale lurking just below the surface.
thanks a lot for that video. i was ashamed a very very long time. And i went in therapy and... it didn't work. BUT... it wasn't useless. i learned a lot about myself, one step after one step. i agree with Shrek : "humans are like onions !" We cn't solve all the problem together, just one by one ! And it makes tears for that ! And, last year, i decided to go to a physiotherapist who practice meditation. It was very hard for me, i was a very miserable patient ! But she didn't give up ! She gave me hope and compassion and... just love. And now, i make good progress. The shame is still there, but i can deal with it. i can forgive myself ( because this physiotherapist dit that in first with me! ). it's a very hard journey, yeah. it takes a life... but it's not hopeless.. Just find someone, not even a therapist, who can manage this shame with you...
Maaan but if fixing such a powerful shame will take that long, by the time I'm finished I'll be 80 years old. It will be too late to start living life at that age.
How old are you now? What if your belief that it will take you till 80 years of age and not true? What if that is your thought loop convincing you over and over again? What if you rewire your brain to not predict when you will overcome but just focus on overcoming it? Forget about the time it will take just keep working at it with compassion and acceptance. You will be surprised to find that it might not take as long as you think it would.
I’d say that you’d gain a lot of progress in those 80 years. You’d be better than how you started. I did therapy for a few months and it gave me a lot of hope, really good supportive times, I’m hoping to start it up again. Also it’s never too late to start living, even if you’re 80 you aren’t dead yet.
@@arraikcruor6407 I don't know, I'm 29 now, I was depressed until I was 24-25. but now I struggle with just, nothingness, monotony, I don't have any sort of desire or motivation, I don't have a full personality
For those suffering with finding a therapist, there are excellent videos on youtube who instruct you how to vet a therapist and what you should expect with a good therapist. Strongly recommend, helped me find someone I respect and trust
Hey Dr. K how do you feel about jungian dream analysis therapy? Ive been doing it for a year and its helped me tremendously compared to my old CBT therapist
I think it's worthwhile to say that a lot of shame comes from going against our values & so I'm taking a shot in the dark here but like covert narcissists & those who live with shame the longest often don't know their values or even themselves. And so how can you tackle your shame if you don't know who you are or what your best self looks like. And I stayed away from saying "who you want to be" because many people suffering from these feelings do have representation for "who they want to be" and use it to fill the void of their identity confusion. Some people have done truly bad things & can't forgive themselves until they tackle their lack of identity.
Also, there are different types of people, perception-wise. Some of them hold a belief that is core to their identity that a personality is to be discovered. That is, you need to try something to understand if this is "you" or "not you". It seems like some actors are like that, trying on various traits, outlooks on life, activities, etc., to see what resonates and sticks and what doesn't. And then there are people already packaged with values and ideas that are unmovable, who know from the get-go if something is a good fit for them or not. Finally, in the case of cover narcissists, how does one even begin to develop a firm sense of personality if there's nothing solid to lean against? Only automatic knee-jerk reactions to what's perceived as a threat to one's already fragile ego
So if therapy isn't working it's 1) my fault and 2) I should keep paying for the thing that doesn't seem to be working. I can tell this advice was given by someone who makes money from doing therapy.
Why dose she feel that way???🙃. The fact she has alexithymia points to a nerodivergence CBT doesn't work for someone who is. And if she dosen't know that she is that is why she is feeling that way- it makes your life hell.
That's a real messed up way of looking at it. A therapist's job goes above the paycheck. It's to help people. I get your fear, but real therapists don't do it for the money. Most do it to help people. If you get a sense that your therapist is your stereotypical money grabber, gtfo there and find a new one. Go to a clinic. Reach out to organizations.
@@Snipfragueur People do things because 1. They want to have to job doing something they enjoy 2. They'd live to survive doing said job. Is it that hard for you to see that plenty of people care and do things because they WANT to help people out? Who don't have ulterior motives. All the people whode services require lots of work but barely get paid like working for a nonprofit, running volunteer programs, helping a cause... People who want to help because they want to help because they're good people exist. Also, if $ issue is a worry for you, and you can't afford therapy (like me), there's programs and help out there that can help you get the service you need for a low low price. I think universities have their own thing.
dr K needs to talk about when you should change therapist
when you dont feel good with him/her
when you cant trust them
@@purplenutria1351 yea in the past i was so afraid of leving therapy and feling lonly, but staying with a bad therapist only hurts in the long time, especialy if the therapist stop tring to do things and saying things and just wait for you to say somthing its really sucks, i remember going and being afraid everitime, thath im not going to be understood, i was so in anxiety thath everitime i went to theray my mind became blank, and i was capable of feling only anxiety and not talk about my actual issue, my anxiety covered everithing and stayed and issue for a long time even after i ended therapy with my therapist being angry at me for not being able to talk about my problems, yea a bad therapist sucks
@@lupoallupato3305 it depends the type of therapy youre trying, in my case i do cognitive therapy but some other people work with Gestalt, you need to probe whats do better to you
@@lupoallupato3305 yeah, a therapist being angry and stuck sounds like a much better criteria to stop therapy than "I don't feel good with them". You don't always feel good when you learn something new. The quesiton is if your therapist can work with it or not.
And, Lupo, it sounds like both, you and the therapist ignored the fact that anxiety IS the actual issue and the one you had to work in the first place. It would help both in similar situations in the rest of your life (and, I'm sure you have a ton of those) and to progress with the therapy.
@@purplenutria1351 That's tricky if trust issues are part of what you're dealing with though. Sometimes therapy may not feel amazing at first even if it's working.
Riffing off of the whole coaches and therapists treating you with compassion- it also works when regular people (coworkers, classmates, acquaintances etc) treat you with compassion and respect. A majority of my own improvement in self-dialogue came when I started a new job and was able to consistently have people treat me and my opinions with respect and kindness. I didn't really notice in the moment, but looking back having that experience after 8-9 months of intense regret and shame for not getting a job out of undergrad and having to move back in with my (frankly judgmental) parents pulled me a good ways out of the depression I was in at the time.
100%. If someone understands your expectations of your self, and your challanges, it’s very easy from an outside perspective to see if you are being to hard on yourself. And they can point out the facts: «You have accomplished x, y, z despite of your challenges, and STILL it’s not good enough for yourself. You need to give yourself some slack/compassion, man.»
I took behavior modification classes in college to learn techniques to get people to treat me better by modifying their behavior so that they don't treat me bad. It actually helped immensely. BF Skinner is not wrong. These days I also apply a metaphorical approach to the broken window theory in interpersonal relationships to maintain social order in my life, so that things don't escalate into toxic behavior. The broken window theory works in tandem with behavior modification extremely well.
Yeah. I have a chronic illness which has made my already low self esteem worse. I think if people were more understanding of my disability, it would be easier to deal with.
I could have written this myself, this was my exact experience too!
"Therapy seems useless. Let me start by listing things that have improved."
Negative thoughts being both manipulative and painfully obvious at the same time.
Personal Notes
8:17 - How to help someone tolerate shame. Modelling sitting with shame, picking it up like slang
11:40 - Sitting with it means it's outside of you
Shitting* with it.... lmao
This is weirdly appropriate, I'm writing an essay on interventions for self esteem and shame in relapsing patients with psychosis, and this gave me inspiration for the part on therapy.
Tell us how it will go down, good luck mate
Weirdly resonant for me, too. Was talking about the placebo and nocebo effects with my classmates early this morning and then later talked about Dr K briefly cuz Ayurveda came up.
Y’all know if Dr K has any content where he discusses “synchronicity?”
@@stefangermanski2668 omitted
Don’t forget your citation 😜
Self esteem is a tough thing. It's something that's conditioned into us over a lifetime, but people expect a therapist (or self help material) to fix in a couple of months. I don't know the solution - it seems kind of hopeless tbh
You think after $25,000 for grad school, and 3000 hours of post grad internship, at least one of my supervisors would've trained me in this?? Why was I never taught this? All they teach in grad school for MSW's is "evidence-based" CBT and short term solution focused therapy… It's a Band-Aid when what clients really need is “surgery”
The term of the help they train you to provide reveals the term they value with the ones you'd be helping.
Of course its a band aid. Everything we do seems to be short term symptom treatment ignoring long term issues.
This whole culture is obsessed about result instead of valueing process more.
Because most people you see don't come back. So it's about doing as much as you can in a short amount of time
6 therapists in and it's very hopeless so far. it's so discouraging, they all just sit there and wait for me to vent and spend the whole time venting instead of ACTIVELY HELPING ME.
The idea is that by venting you will become a little more self-aware to the whole problem causation mechanism and will then arrive at a point where you finally see the real source of your problems. It's absolutely meaningless to point someone to the root of their issues unless they have arrived there themselves (with very gentle nudging towards the right direction but without forcing any conclusions). People are so bad at seeing themselves that if you straight up tell someone what their problem is and why it is, they will dismiss it right away. Or, the other type actually agrees its exactly what their problem is about and then they slide back very soon because it was not their hard-fought conclusion. So the idea behind traditional therapy is that *you* are doing the heavy-lifting *using* your therapist as an impartial observer. They're almost like a mirror confirming or disproving ideas you may have about yourself. Their purpose is to ask you questions that will guide you back to the right path of thinking when you're warping your perception of yourself or some situations that take place with you. If you're not self-aware and trusting enough to regularly break out of your usual cycle of thinking when answering those questions, it will indeed lead nowhere, because they cannot and will not make conclusions for you.
That’s how therapy works. Therapists only guide the patient. It is you who’s able to identify the root causes of the problem. Therapists are there to guide us and ask right questions leading us to the solution of the problem.
@@marianneregalado2235 So what happens if the patient is mentally incapable of identifying the root of the problem due to whatever issues they may have? What is the process for helping someone who for whatever reason could never do that?
The first thing I ask of therapists is for practical tips. If they can't provide those I move on. You will eventually find a therapist happy to give you coping tips and they will get you to open up slowly. But I absolutely despise the first session "tell me about your childhood" approach
Have you tried CBT?
Therapy in my country sucks,
Honestly they don't care about your own well being,
They just end up making you feel guilty to feel suicidal,
To the point that many people would rather die than to seek help
Which country are you in?
Perhaps try online therapy beyond your country's professionals.
My therapy didn't work because my therapist was always talking about how she's supposed to be writing a book.
Yeah there are really bad therapists out there
That is insane! How the hell did they become a therapist?
@@arraikcruor6407 probably couldn't become a writer lol
@@hej2800 lmao
Just like a certain someone who is a therapist and supposed to be writing a book...
I think one thing I've noticed with my lack of success with therapy is that every therapist I've encountered tries to throw the same solution at every problem. Is the client depressed? Ok we need to do CBT and force CBT and keep doing CBT even though it's clearly not working. There are so many other types of therapy out there that I've never been exposed to and maybe one can work better for me. I got tired of dealing with CBT therapists all the time who didn't want to think outside of the box or try to actually help, so I gave up on therapy after trying it for 8 years. Also it was a huge money sink for me even with insurance. Around $70-90 a session weekly adds up and when you don't see any progress, why bother to pay for something so useless?
I agree. I've been going to therapy (based on Jung) for 2 years now and yes, it took a long time and lots of money, but finally my feelings and thoughts about myself and the world are changing, and not because I try to forcefully replace "bad" thoughts with "good" ones, but because I actually believe the "good" thoughts I have now, and most importantly - they come naturally to me now, my self-esteem is so much better (having said that, besides therapy I do a lot of "self-help" work myself, I guess the combination of the two did it for me). And CBT always seemed too... shallow and forced. Or at least not for me.
CBT is a top-down therapy, where you try to use thoughts to change your feelings. Stuff like EMDR is bottom-up, where you process stuck experiences/emotions to fix your erroneous thinking. When it works right you just naturally feel different afterwards without having to “try” or use techniques. CBT is really good for some things but not when people have deep trauma, or got bad programming as a small child who didn’t have cognitive abilities. Basically I see CBT, in many situations, as trying to talk yourself out of feeling certain ways, which we all know, does not work.
Has Dr K addressed wealth inequality and mental health? I feel like i can't relate to any of these videos cuz I'm fucking poor. Yeah yeah keep doing therapy when its not working and youre broke
@@Sheph100 That's the core problem I find with a lot of this. Therapists and Psychiatrists (like most doctors) never want to even consider discussing the financial impact or, alternately, want to push people into medical loan products their offices offer.
This question is really "Should I stop trying (at $100+ per session and a huge time sink)?"
In no other scenario would we say "Yes you should continue throwing money at the problem when all of the attempts to solve the problem are failing."
@@RvLeshrac You make such good points. I used to think that the best use of my money in the world was therapy - since my mental health is the basis of everything else. I figured, if I feel better, I can make more money at my business. But after spending at least 10k out of pocket over the last 6 years, I'm not sure my money and time has been well spent.
Easy for a therapist to say “continue therapy”. That’s how they get paid. If I failed at my job for years, I may try to convince my boss not to fire me.
If I tried therapy while still living among people who constantly treat me like shit, it would not have enough power to truly help me. I'm lucky to be in an environment that supports healthy growth now. My friends also got helped with CBT but each case is so different and may require different tools, methods and approaches.
Exactly. And that's the case very often. Mental health is still somewhat of a taboo topic, resulting in alot of ignorance and fallacious appeals downplaying severity. Especially in developing countries (while not understating the ignorance in developed countries), saying you need psychological help is reacted to with disgust and dismissal.
This issue is much more complex than the premise of this video suggests. While therapy may not be useless in a vacuum, environmental, social, socioeconomic and cultural factors often either don't make it accessible or leave people alone with their life situation they have no power over changing and getting out of being exploited or abused.
Dr. K I know you might never see this, but I might as well post this since you always talk about “planting a seed no matter if you think it won’t grow” or something like that lol. I just wanted to say you have really blessed me a lot and your very good at what you do. I hope you continue helping others, because the work you do really is making a difference in this world. I wish nothing but the best for you and your family; and I hope you will keep sharing your positive messages with the world.
Therapies are so expensive that it’s pure gatekeeping
I agree that therapy is important and can really help. But the problem is that therapy is so damn expensive. How tf do people expect everyone to be able to pay $80 per session.
get yo money up not yo funny up
Thank god I live in Europe. We have proper health insurance
Therapy was not of much use to me. Tried 4 different therapists over the years. Waste of time and money. The work I did on myself as a result of my own research DID work.
@@Dimitris_Half I wanted to get right to it, face my SPECIFIC problems, choose a method (or methods) of actual therapy and get to work!
They wanted to wander around in the weeds, speculate and waste time... for which of course - I was paying...
@@Dimitris_Half Did you read what I wrote originally? You sure in the hell didn't understand what I wrote!
It was helping me too, but the most difficult part for me, is finding a place that brings safety.
I never realised how much crucial it is for the coach or psy to have and show hope for you. It can make all the difference
9:20 - 9:50
"if you continue to work with your therapist and your therapist demonstrates hope, you'll start to model that behaviour. You'll pick it up almost like slang"
I have to disagree with you doctor. The patient's problem is that therapy is useless for him in the first place.
The patient said, that he tried several therapists, coaching, CBT and whatnot and nothing worked.
Now after all this, you suggest to the patient, that he should do therapy and you explain the process how therapy works?
While what you are saying is useful for some people and factual even probably (I am not in the medical field at all), this does not address the patients problem at all. It's more like ignoring it.
When the patient tells you his problem: "I've been to several therapists, coaches, tried CBT and other methods and nothing works, what am i supposed to do?"
Doctor K: "If you go to therapy and your therapist demonstrates hope, you'll start to model that behaviour. You'll pick it up almost like slang."
To be honest, this "solution" sounds extremely ignorant, disregarding but good for general advertisement.
This sounds like teaching a 7 year old how to write with a pencil that has no lead. No matter how hard the kid tries to write on paper, nothing is written on it. The kid keeps complaining about it, but you keep saying that he should continue writing and "somehow" he'll begin writing.
Which we all know is useless and will never happen, because we are missing a vital component.
Yeah, I think psychiatrists overestimate their effectiveness. Even if you have a good therapist (hard to find), you can’t always afford the therapy. I think it’s the fault of the system as a whole.
Finding the right therapist can cost thousands or tens of thousands of dollars, and even then it's not certain you find one. At a certain point the mentality shifts to therapists being like prostitutes, only doing it for the money and not to genuinely help you, which eliminates any hope of finding professional help.
Yeas, they are all qyacks. I was studying to become one but had no courage to charge for something that could not really solve anything in the end.
My therapist changed my life
Well they are. Psychologists don’t want you fixed, if you were fixed you’d never have to go back; they want your money and maybe feeling better enough to make it to the next week to shill out another 100 bucks.
I improved my life way more just figuring this stuff out myself, all psychs wanted to do was just make faces and barely pay attention. All going to therapy did was keep me from buying self protection for the next three years because I wasn’t finishing his session that week.
Dude “sit with it” I always imagined the feeling inside of me and was just white knuckling it until I accepted it. It’s literally x50 easier to do it his way and it feels way better jeez
I'd like to know what do you mean by "the other way". The way I understand what Dr k said is letting the feeling be and considering it as a part of yourself and not "you", a kid of dissociation from the feeling.
@@StompL7 good point what I said was unclear, I mean his way, exactly as you said
@@itsmebougie thanks for letting me know. I know of this for quite some time now and I find myself never being able to find resolve in this process of "sitting with" an emotion. Since it's always moving there's always something new to sit with.
Even though that is totally unrealistic I'd love an internal time limit that let you know and tell you:"ok you're done thanks sitting with me I'm going now, byebye"
Im inclined to remember a quote i heard a while back. Awhile ago, I got into the sales business. And i read an article that compared sales training to therapy. "Sales training is like therapy, it is what you get out of it". Translation: Whether you believe you can, or you cant. I saw so many people come into the business with a horrrible attitude, not valuing anything they were taught. And eventually they left. I saw many other people come into the business with a postive mindset, and made a killing!!! In other words, no matter what help is offered, it doesnt mean a damn until you want it.
Thank you Dr. k, this was exactly what I needed to hear today! This is my first time in private practice, first time having clients longer than 3 to 6 months… I'm hitting the eight and nine month mark with clients and we were both getting in that frantic panic desperate place you described… Now knowing that this is normal and hearing that it's OK to continue with the mindful self compassion stuff, I personally feel less shame as a therapist
What did we learn today? To shit with shame. Yes, we did. DrK told me to XDDD
It's not shameful bro everyone does it
Step 1: Find an Ancient Rome styled public toilet
For every level of personal progress there is a "right tool" - many people need another person to help them resolve what they cannot see properly yet
This is not exactly my story, but it resonates a lot. I’ve been to multiple therapists for trauma. The first one was outright bad, misapplied EMDR and made me worse. Another was good until she turned on me one day after 2 years. Then I had another one do that. After that, more bad experiences trying to find new therapists. Then I went to a super famous therapist for a really expensive intensive and that didn’t work either. It’s very hard to believe I will ever get back to where I was before I “unboxed” my trauma.
I do have a therapist now that I feel ok about, but I am not sure we are making any progress. After doing the super famous therapist and getting nowhere, it’s hard to keep the hope alive.
Firstly, I'm really sorry about your experience, it sounds really disheartening. My first therapist ever was quite bad too and I was so afraid to look for another one because I thought that maybe I'm expecting too much or all are the same but eventually a friend recommended me one and I gave it a go. It's better now.
Secondly, a thing I've learned recently is that we're supposed to be more open about what we want/need/expect of our therapists. Assertiveness is always a good thing and if they don't react well, at least you stop losing your time with them sooner and know that you have to keep looking. Maybe it's like dating, or finding a really good burger place. Some people don't need much or are lucky enough to find what they're looking for fast. For others it may take a while. In the end you're doing this for yourself, so my advice is to not lose hope because you deserve to be the healthiest you can be.
@@9Nikko8 Thank you for the kind words. I'm pretty sure you meant something different, but I started thinking about what I (should) expect of my therapists.
1. I expect them to apply protocols correctly, and not disregard the preparatory and safety steps. I expect them, if treatment with those protocols is not going as expected, to stop and discover what’s going wrong. If the problem cannot be resolved, I expect them to realize the protocol seems contraindicated. I expect them to try something else instead of just going on with something that’s making me worse.
2. I expect them, if they get countertransference towards me, to seek consultation and work through their own feelings, instead of terminating my therapy for their convenience.
3. I expect them to only take me on if they feel they have the expertise to work with me. Don't terminate me 8 months later claiming you JUST NOW realized you don't have the expertise to work with me.
4. I expect them to keep up on the current thinking in their field. The therapist mentioned above was not up on current thinking about Complex Trauma, and refused to become up to date because "she didn't have time." Even though she was supposedly a specialist in it!!
5. I expect them to only take me on if they can reasonably expect to keep working with me. I had a therapist do several sessions of intake with me. Then she became pregnant and said I should work with someone else because her maternity leave would cause a disruption in our attachment work. Since she was deliberately trying to get pregnant when we first met, why take me in the first place? Especially knowing my history of therapeutic terminations?
6. I expect them to be kind and thoughtful people who want to make me feel safe with them. The therapist above referred me to another who was a rude, thoughtless jerk who was doing in-person therapy without a mask before the vaccine, flouting our state's mask mandate. After dismissing my covid concerns as ridiculous, he spent most of our consultation threatening to report a former therapist of mine whom I was very fond of. Wow, what a great guy.
Now if a therapist can meet the above criteria, THEN I will try to be more open minded about things they say/observe/suggest. I know that the things we need to see about ourselves are hard and we may reject them at first. I try to do that with my current therapist, who so far, meets all the above criteria :-)
Thanks again and I wish you well on your journey.
ACT (Acceptance and Commitment Therapy - one of many blends of CBT and Buddhism inspired therapies) has an exercise called "creative hopelessness" where they list all the things that have failed before in an effort to induce a sense of hopelessness. The ultimate goal is to lead the client to recognize that the things they have done to, for example, eliminate anxiety have not worked, and maybe nothing can work...so maybe the problem is the goal of eliminating anxiety. ACT calls this the "agenda of control" and considers this an impediment to coping with difficult emotional experiences. Once the client realizes they can't eliminate difficult emotions, they can work toward trying to accept them as being potentially adaptive and appropriate responses to the struggles we face in life. I've seen a lot of overlap between your general approach and ACT, so it may be something worth learning about.
try Acceptance and commitment therapy, as a ACT-psychologist we focus not on the origins of the problem but partly accepting and distancing from the fact your brain produces thought like ' i am not good enough' ' or i can't do this'. It is very effective.
I've heard of ACT and I'm trying to apply it in my life even though I don't always remember to. I've had at least a bit of results of it myself, so I have an idea on what distancing from my thoughts feel like. Hopefully I'll get better at practicing it and getting more out of it. I just wish that methods like ACT are more know and accessable since positive psychology isn't for everyone. It most certainly isn't for me!
@@honeybnoir824 I am not sure if they have any good books of it in English, but we have a lot of 'acceptance and commitment therapy for practioneers' books here in holland (for instance HOW TO ACT by Gijs Janssen). These books give literal examples for you to read, exercises for you to do, it's very practical and might help you in your journey. However, if you problems are too big (you seek too many ways to have 'control', then other therapies might be more effective.
Unfortunately, if u want ACT it is normally not fully insured. My clients get like half the price if they have extra insurance. However, if u do ACT, quick changes will come, if people are not helped after 15 sessions then other therapy forms might be needed. If it is effective, it normally goes quite fast in your new way of looking at certain things in life.
@@honeybnoir824 BTW start with giving your brain a name. Look this up might be online somewhere. It helps you disconnect from your thoughts. If your brain starts like shit man u cannot do this this is waaaay to hard for you. You can be like, ooh there he goes again, 'brain' are you having a bad day again, thanks for the advice. It makes defusion (distancing) easier.
I've had about 4 years of therapy and it didnt fix everything but it gave me the tools to work on my issues
I've done therapy a couple of times before, and a wierd thing happens. It's almost as if I've unwittingly tied my identity to being anxious and screwed up for so long, that I think theres no way I can change, and will almost fight back against the therapy. There's an element of ego to it: MY problems are so big that there's no way therapy can solve them. I went in with that mindset and came out not really feeling any better. It's all a self fulfilling prophecy.
I was also a bit of a smartass know-it-all as a kid, and was naturally sceptical about basically everything, especially therapy, mainly because improvement is so slow, it's hard to observe.
If you try to address the cause of your anxiety you are shaking your whole reality, and that is terrifying for your ego because it created your anxiety to protect itself. The only way to break those anxiety responses is to push through those defense mechanisms
Take care of yourself
In my opinion if you are very self aware and observant of what led to your circumstances of being down or troubled as well understand steps to getting back to your normal self or better self then therapy is can be a waste of time.
I’m autistic with a good bit of C-PTSD. I got nowhere with multiple years’ worth of CBT. I got a lot better in a short time with EMDR. I think a distinction needs to be made between therapeutic approaches, and that the mental health sciences, given their very primitive and undeveloped state, still have a long way to go before they can give patients the care they ought to have. With any given patient, whether or not any particular therapeutic approach works or not is more a matter of dumb luck than anything else
Was your therapist also knowledgable about autism?
@@pawelzabicki7785 No. Very little was known about autism at the time. It did not even become a thing until 1987, when the DSM-3 revision came out
The main take away I got from this video is you are not your depression, anxiety, doubts or fears. When you begin to think of it as an external threat/obstacle, instead of something internal to yourself, you can start taking the first steps to overcoming it.
Dr K and HealthyGamer team, I appreciate all of your work:)
Also, CBT and related approaches are not for everyone, but there are so many more forms of therapy. Psychodynamic approaches also work very well on shame and personality disorders and are very different in their methods, so if someone doesn't really vibe well with CBT exercises and mentality really should try it.
I almost wish I didn't learn about the placebo thing for medication because now my anxiety is gonna make me think about that if I take medication I might be tricking myself into thinking it's working and then nocebo myself into thinking it isn't working. Some meta shit
I think that one thing that person could try to think about is how they benefit from shame. I've come to believe that if we want to get rid of some part of us and nothing seems to be working then maybe it's because on some level we need this thing and we cannot get rid of it unless we built something healthier to come in its place.
That is a very interesting idea. I wonder how one would be able to use shame as a way to benefit themselves.
@@arraikcruor6407 well imagine that you're living at home and are completely dependent on your parents in every way. Say you have no social skills, no life skills so to speak, and you feel immense shame for that. If you would get rid of the shame that's keeping you from getting a job, getting friends etc. then you would have to be responsible for your choices - but what if you don't know how to do that? If you keep the shame, you'll never be responsible for anything. You'll likely feel shitty, but you're safe in a way because that is the only way you know.
@@lihie.crochet I don't have to imagine it, that's reality. I've gotten past the shame now and I'm actually making progress, I have my driving test in 3 days and after I get my license I'm going to start working.
I relate to the poster a lot. A lot of my trauma is from childhood, yet I can't remember any specific incidents. Whenever something comes up I forget it later despite how emotionally influencing they can be. I do have an immense sense of shame due to my upbringing and simultaneously I am extremely eager and desperate to change, which is clearly coming through to my therapist.
My first therapist, despite not being very experienced, helped me a bit with this by instinctively saying "That's hard. How do you get up in the morning?" I said "With the hope things will be better today." And I've been clinging to this ever since.
My current therapist is slowly chipping away at my shame by validating me to the point where I pick up the things she says. I also kinda pick up things Dr K says sometimes. So I am kinder to myself and I sound like a wise priest by dropping quotes and its cool as fuck.
Learning to love yourself can be hard, especially since a lot of self-help revolves around "internalising" and "taking responsibility" for problems. But you have to learn that that is different from beating yourself up over failure.
Same. It's like I wish I could explain the circumstances or what is wrong with me but I can't come to a clear conclusion. One of these days maybe I will know what the problem is and solve it.
praying hleps bro
Thanks for sharing 🙏
@@saintboimike Prayer helps the people that it does work for. For others, it is useless and telling they didn't pray hard enough just makes them more miserable. Reddit is full of people who were like that.
This video made me pause me yearly rewatch of LOTR only to go back to the movie 5 mins in to finish the video shortly after..
Someone left a comment about when one should change therapists. I think thats a good idea. My therapist never listened or trusted me and she misdiagnosed me. Her therapy sessions let me to suicidal ideation and I had to admit myself to an inpatient clinic
I'm watching this right before my weekly therapy. I've been working with my therapist(who took many many many years to find, because I've never felt I've ever found someone who meshed well with me, and there's also the fact that I wasn't quite ready to "let go" of my ego and truly commit to working on myself and accepting help) for almost two years now. Therapy is a long term commitment, and I'm only just starting to make some real progress. It's a continual effort, and there's no guarantees. You have to be willing to let go and do the work. You have to be willing to admit that you don't have all the answers. You have to be willing to spend nights crying or even screaming into your pillow, feeling the emotions that you've buried deep within yourself as a coping mechanism. Therapy is about breaking down our inefficient strategies and building new ones from the ground up, ultimately making us more resillient and able to handle our current challenges with healthier strategies.
ive never been to therapy but i need to go due to a bunch of things going on in my head due to everything that is going on in the world is consuming my brain and it is causing me to have manic depressive episodes that causing me to sleep at least 14 hours a day for a week+ along with extreme level of anxiety that cause me to hear voices in my head which lasted off and on for about a month and half and just recently connecting the dots of why it was happening. ive been come so disgusted and hatred for what this world has turned into these last 2 years and i have no idea how to deal with it, i see my psych in a week and i need to have her write me a referral to a therapist on my own terms outside of in patient treatment when i was younger.
12:44 "You must shit with the shame" lol
Over the past three years, I've had the opportunity to engage in therapy with various therapists, both in individual and group settings. While this experience has had its ups and downs, I must admit that I'm not completely satisfied with the overall outcome. Although therapy did have some positive impact on my life, I feel that the improvements were quite limited, considering the significant amount of time and money invested.
Interestingly, I found that participating in therapy groups brought about more notable improvements compared to individual therapy. However, as time passed and I attended more sessions, I noticed a decline in its effectiveness, and my enthusiasm waned during the third therapy group, which I found to be quite boring.
Reflecting on my therapeutic journey, I've come to realize that my comfort level during the sessions might have hindered deeper changes in my life. It's possible that I have reached a point where I'm uncertain if therapy can offer further support, or if I've already made significant progress on my own.
I strongly believe that substantial changes are necessary in my life, but I'm unsure if the type of therapy I've engaged in so far is the best fit for facilitating these changes. Gestalt therapy, in theory, intrigued me, and I found inspiration in the works of Frederik Perlz. However, the therapeutic experience itself felt too comfortable and lacked the necessary level of challenge to drive real change.
Perhaps exploring a more radical and aggressive therapeutic approach, similar to Perlz's ideas, could be beneficial for me. I'm open to exposing myself to a different type of therapy that can push me outside my comfort zone and drive meaningful transformation.
In conclusion, I don't discount the value of therapy entirely, but I believe it's time for me to explore alternative approaches that can better support the profound changes I seek in my life. I am grateful for the insights gained from therapy, and I am now on a journey to find the kind of therapeutic support that aligns with my current needs and aspirations. Any recommendations or insights are welcome as I embark on this new path of growth and self-discovery. Thank you.
where are the therapists who actually do all these things like CBT, and the other 3 letter abbreviations? The therapists I've been to just sit there and offer less engagement and insight then a random stranger in a bar would if I chatted to them about my life
it took me over a year of therapy to get to the root of just some of my problems, and before that it always just felt like useless chit-chat. I think it's quite normal that the first months feel that way. I only cried at therapy after over twelve months, and that was a breakthrough moment.
This post sounds like something I would have written... before I started coaching. I'm starting to feel hopeful now, and that's more than therapy and meds have accomplished. I encourage this poster to try coaching if they already haven't (it has been two years, after all), as there is hope after shame and low self-esteem.
Mirror neurons are so trippy like that. Almost like a "reverse Pavlovian response" (Pavlov hears a bell and has to double check if it's actually time to feed the dogs.) I've definitely noticed that some therapists ended up "catching my hopelessness" instead of working with mine😊
First principle of music "repition legitimizes". Even in my own work With people it's imperative that I dawn the attitude of someone who enjoys working with this stuff. Something about that example "I just said it and nothing bad happened" infront of them, helps indirectly allow them go give greater permission to try.
Also why stories and metaphors are some of the best tools. Just an example where things don't blow up become the wrenches you throw into thier distortion.
Do you think like the difference in effectiveness from meds to placebo transfers over from person to story? (Like having a person there is 35% effective, but having the right example being 50%). Not trying to say Doc's do nothing, but when I look at something like fortune telling? They may not know what a mirror neuron is, but they sure know how to use it.
Dr. K, I respect you sincerely, please review how the statistics of drug effects and placebo/nociebo actually work. The efficacy of anti depressants doesn't mean that an individual for whom anti depressants work (number to treat) is effective to a threshold of placebo effect and then the drug boosts that effect. It means that half the time medication is given it has no real effect, but some people will still feel better because of the placebo effect.
Nocebo is when one has not taken a treatment but has negative "effects" associated with the non-intervention. Example an adverse reaction to a saline shot during a double blind vaccine trial. Nocebo is manifesting a harmful reaction in the absence of a treatment induced cause.
Don't expect a problem, that took decades to form and grow, to be resolved in a couple of months. Daym.
The person should get a new therapist and play them this video in the first 13 minutes of their first therapy session.
I Went to therapy twice. first time it was good second time therapist was so angry and kept facepalming and yelling told me to leave after like 15 min and booked me away so i might not come back xD. This is the 2nd best rated one in my country.
This is exactly why I don't bother trying therapy. I don't want to go through 5 therapists to find the right one, and then spend a decade to feel better. I'd rather stay at my current negative baseline than spend all the extra time and energy to only be 10% better.
Idk bro. If you're looking about it that way, how much do think you really need therapy? Do you feel like you're functioning well?
To some people (like me) we might be functioning at 30%, 50%, 70% of our capacity. We might have problems affecting our ability to lead normal lives. Imagine having a really hard time studying, holding job, or even starting, doing basic things...
At that point you're hoping therapy can make you whole again and not remain being a fraction of your former self. You want to reach your true potential but you're being restricted so much. If you're dealing with problems you desperately want to fix, I'd say that the search for a therapist that's you're great with is worth it. Psychiatry + therapy is the better combo btw.
Also, you don't know how long your it might take for your therapy to work or if they're a match for you. You'll never know if you don't try.
My first therapist was amazing but them after I moved away, the next one I wasn't good with. I've had multiple therapists over the years, and I now know how to identify a therapist that's good for you.
@@serehero4722 I mean... my anxiety is so bad that I started an internet based business so I dont have to go to work or talk on the phone or leave my house anymore. My gf drives me everywhere. I have no offline friends. So I probably need therapy about as much as anyone not in a crisis like being suicidal possibly could.
Still easier to take the pretty bad but known path compared to the scary unknown one.
Mostly it just feels like being overburdened in Skyrim like I'm always carrying 300lbs on my back. Eventually you just get accustomed to the weight and cant even imagine what a relief it would be to take it off any more
Are you saying that or is the anxiety talking?
@@GurtGobain oh wow. That's amazing. You're a really blessed guy. You've been able to build a life going around the whole anxiety problem. You've got a nice income that doesn't require you leaving your home, you have an amazing girlfriend you loves you. She takes care of transportation too. I can see how you've build a pretty comfortable life for yourself and not have to go outside into the unknown world.
However, you are while you've been able to do all this, your crippling your potential.
You've got so much potential! Just look at just how far you've come! Could you imagine yourself in a a world where you have friends, can go out to restaurants, visit amusement parks, zoos, anime conventions, travel the world with your girlfriend?
I think therapy and psychiatric help (and Dr K's guide, meditation) would really help. And they'll take things slow.
I'm not asking you to tumble down your walls. I'm asking you to open your door and take a step outside into the world for a couple minutes at a time.
You have a debuff that you have to chip slowly over time. But it's possible and it's WORTH IT!
That's what I ultimately would want you to take away from all this. Being able to manage your anxiety and get it down to a point where you can do out and do more things in this world, live more of what life has to offer. You gotta yearn for that.
And with your girlfriend, she can help you take that first step in finding that great person (therapist) who can help solve that debuff in your armor.
i find to be very good this mixture of good humor while being serious. to me gives me hope that there's no need to be over strict to talk about important things. i believe that some times is easier to learn and articulate in a lighter environment.
this explains why i feel like i have been battling mental illness my whole life. the biggest issue for me is shame, i guess it's a really tough opponent.
Sorry to hear that. Take care of yourself
@@praetentious2925 thank you i appreciate that, and same to you!
Therapist in California have seen so much with the homeless epidemic that my issues of anxiety and depression seem trivial.
Don't invalidate your struggles by comparison.
@@sirphantoon6731 I'm talking about my experience with licensed therapist in California LMAOOOO
Therapy is just another Job, the client has to put in all the work. The therapist is just a ghost writers.
Does the knowledge of placebo/nocebo affect the placebo/nocebo effect?
I don’t think so vsauce has a full episode exploring the answer to your question in “mind field” show. You should watch it. It’s really entertaining and informative
It does. It has to. Because placebo is based in belief. If you would take a pill and they told you it's placebo ofc you would not feel the effect.
@@osamabuhnad4246 Thank you for the recommendation!
@@yoooyoyooo Maybe it does but I was thinking here. Antidepressants are still responsible for 30% right? So maybe when we notice the difference our brain does the rest of the work because we think the drugs are working. I don't actually know what I'm talking about. Just a thought
@@kazuo398 no worries :D
Honestly I feel like most people think that they're "beyond help" or that their mental health issues are "too complex and/or too serious" to be treated when they first seek out mental healthcare. It's not uncommon for people to not only feel overwhelmed, but to feel as of they're somehow uniquely challenged or some type of special case that can't be treated with any available methods. I know that I used to think this many years ago when I first began seriously seeking out mental health treatment/therapy. It must have been quite evident that I felt this way too because my therapist/counselor finally got fed up with my crap one day and said something rather simple to me that completely changed my perspective while I was going through an outpatient AODA program and getting treated for anxiety and depression. I should preface by saying that my therapist was a *very* pragmatic, no-nonsense, blunt/direct approach kind of guy that didn't put up with any BS or wasted time whatsoever. So one day I'm going on and on about my issues and how "different" my situation is and how nothing is working, blah blah blah. I was being so melodramatic and looking back, frankly I feel like I was pretty pathetic. Anyhow I finally finish ranting and winging and he's silent for a few moments before he leans forward and smirks saying, "Jake, you are nothing but a garden variety dope fiend with some very treatable mental health issues... I've met and treated hundreds, if not thousands just like you over the years, and God-willing I'll live to treat many more. You are not special. Your problems are not unique. Everyone experiences what you are now at some point or another under different circumstances and to varying degrees. Get over yourself already so we can start doing some of this therapy sh!t and begin constructing a workable plan to make you a functioning and productive healthy member of society once again...". Some may think this harsh, but it's absolutely what I needed to here. I'm the type who often responds well to the "swift kick in the @ss" approach combined with a dose of reality and some much needed humility, along with a dash of perspective. To be totally honest I believe that more people could really benefit from this type of tactic rather than being treated with "kid gloves" and constantly having their feelings indulged and/lr validated even when they're completely irrational and nonsensical. An all too common belief that I see perpetuated these days is that "everyone's feelings are valid" when this just isn't true or even realistic whatsoever, and I just don't think that this is at all constructive. By operating on this type of logic, we can often end up indulging mental illness rather than treating it. It's just not healthy...
I also feel that far too many people have come to see therapy as a sort of "passive solution" or "magic fix" to their problems, kinda like how many used to think of psychiatric medication. You know, like how people used to think, "Oh I'm depressed? Well I'll just take a pill to fix that and then I'll be okay." when medication is really just one tool in the proverbial toolbox. I feel like many people have begun to develop the same mentality about therapy. They just show up to their appointments and kinda go through the motions without ever actually investing any real effort into making it work, then after a few months they get frustrated and wonder why their life hasn't miraculously turned around, then they turn to blaming the practicioner/clinician. First and foremost, therapy and mental health treatment is supposed to be a *process*, not an instant fix. It takes time to actually reap any benefit from it, but more importantly it requires *active engagement* and participation on behalf of the patient in order to ever make any real progress. One must take the initiative and find the motivation to take an active role in developing and executing their treatment plan, otherwise one is just wasting everyone's time. As it is often said, "It only works if you work it!". It is also important to know how to advocate for oneself in one's care and know when to speak up if something isn't right. At the end of the day it is YOUR healthcare and you are paying for services rendered, so it is up to you as the patient/consumer to dictate how and when your care is provided. Anyhow that is kind of a different topic altogether and I digress... Ultimately unless patients actually actively participate in their care and engage the process accordingly, they are never going to experience any progress nor achieve the results that they desire. Oftentimes just seeing a therapist or counselor regularly and "talking things out" rarely - if ever - actually generates any tangible positive outcome, and a treatment plan typically requires genuine action and invested effort to deliver results. Yes folks, that means you have to actually try and - *gasp* - take real action to affect any change. Truly a novel concept I know, but maybe just give it a chance for once and see how it goes. Who knows, you might even just amaze yourself with what you're capable of when you actually put your mind to it...
"Shitting with the sham" just totally made my day xD
Also, I great video!
I actually highkey relate to this person's story and it's one of the core reasons I myself became a therapist and practice in the manner through which I provide care. There are other approaches and specialties in counseling, and it sounds to me like this person needs a referral to a more narrative, Gestalt, or psychodynamic therapist and perhaps give up on the relationship with that therapist or that kind of therapeutic approach rather than therapy altogether. I hope someday we can be more holistic and less 1-to-1 when we consider treating individuals in the clinical sphere, because what good is improved behaviors such that you're "well-adjusted to a profoundly sick society" when you feel deep shame and incompetence and self-loathing. It IS possible to treat folks' presenting concerns while also attending to the simultaneous process or reauthorization when it comes to their stance about themselves and their lives. It's possible to be more humble/person-centered and less impositional and to assist our clients with the sorts of things which will positively contribute to their self-concept alongside the elimination of "negative" behaviors or thought patterns (e.g., Raiders of the Lost Ark).
I've failed 15 times in therapy and my 16th time is failing lol. Most of them were on the NHS though and the NHS has a history of really not understanding that I'm not criminally minded or something. Their view of me is beyond dim. I'm not a bad person but every interaction with the NHS, mental health or physical, tries to teach me that I'm evil. Thankfully i have higher than expected self esteem given all the life beatings i get i should have nearly zero self esteem.
Had 6 months worth of NHS CBT therapy here in the UK.
Did nothing for me.
I'm sure it helps some people but one size doesnt fit all.
12:07 Hearing this initially got me to chuckle. Then I laughed really hard after visualizing it.
So he needs to become a therapist for his therapist. :D
As long as you are trying to “fix” yourself instead of love yourself, you won’t make progress.
That's so true. A lot of people go to therapy with the belief that they don't need to do any personal work; just talk and vent to their therapist and their problems will correct themselves. If you're doing that, you're not gonna get better. Therapy is a powerful tool, but it doesn't fix anything.
I kind of hoped this was a different type of question.
Like i seen several therapists, and not one seemed to care OR listen. They gave me their "go to" talk, that wasnt relevant to my life. And im not saying this because i wasnt listening or trying, but because im certain and i gave them a fair amount of trust.
Therapy for me seems pointless because half the therapists just dont give a damn. And as a client, especially with issues related to social aspects, its hard to estimate if the therapists is draining your money and not caring, or geniuly caring but simply not making you feel as good as you hoped. I been to four therapists, most of the others were booked out for years.
Therapy helped me in a funny way though. Because my therapists were misunderstanding me, insulting me, yelling at me.... i HAD to step up for myself, i had decided that im sick and tired of other peoples opinions, and that i will NOT simply sit down quietly whensomeone yells at me. They made me understand that no matter in what position someone is, they arent necessarily good at their job, smart, capable, or worthy of my time. The therapists i spent YEARS talking to, were a waste of my time. And for the first time in my life i told someone to shut up, and broke all ties with them.
After i been let down by three therapists, i decided to also cut ties with my family because i then knew how relieving it is to cut toxic people who dont understand you out of your life.
But still i wish therapists had to be tested, and wouldnt be just a bunch of arrogant snobs who talk to the wall and cost a lot. Not all of them, but too many are like this.
Therapy is not useless, but most therapists are.
Kudos to you, Doc, for breaking the tragically destructive "50-minute hour".
It's strange watching you making amazing people cry in public... that's not typical behavior for a shrink. I hope it helps, because some of the people you have talked with have earned incredible lives. Hopefully they will find it.
The most important thing I learned from therapy content is that we're supposed to sit with discomfort in order to conquer it. I had no idea.
My experience with therapists are that they are incompetent.. Therapy is useless unless you are able to find the 1/1000 therapist that is actually able
That's true to some extent. But it's also true that patients with certain problems will go to great lengths to prove that the therapist is useless, so they can confidently say therapy doesn't work.
Dr. K's camera was wild this video!
What is the value of therapy? Like what is the value of talking through things with a licensed therapist as opposed to just venting with my dog when we go for a walk. Talking with a therapist feels like talking to yourself anyways, they always reflect everything back and make you answer your own questions anyway. So I ask again, what is the value of talking to a therapist? Seems like you'd get the same value just meditating on your problems and thinking up your own solutions
I just went through therapy 5 months ago for severe anxiety, 4 day treatment (originally used for OCD here) worked great. Even though not quite got help with something else I need therapy for, which I actually cant get therapy for over here in my age group. But went down from 104% on the anxiety test to 34%
Woah that sounds like a huge improvement! May I ask what treatment it was?
This video seriously made me have a realization 🙏 thank you
reading these comments has me not wanting to pursue being a therapist anymore. I wanna help people, but what's the point if it doesn't even help?
There is only one real way to overcome low self esteem and that is through accomplishments and competences. I do not think this person is wrong to think that a therapist won't help him in what he views at the moment their biggest problems because it very much sounds as if a therapist isn't there to help you as a mentor and/or a guider which is what it sounds like this person really needs.
So then if you haven't accomplished things you're a loser?
@@Twiti47 yes
@@Twiti47 Basically absolutely get out there and do something or build your knowledge on something even if it's small. For example can you ever be confident about talking about a sports team if you don't even know one teams names or players? But if you've followed sports for years you will have confidence talking about the teams and players for hours. This stems not from some abstract thing as inner rational or anything a therapist might work with you on at least in my opinion but rather because you've actually worked towards learning something you or even others might care about and learned to do it good.
Who else just stares at Dr.k's hair??? It's so floofy ^^
I didn't want to say 😳
Ghey
@@tuningsnow hot
I watched the whole video, but on 12:43 cured my shame. Thanks Indian doctor.
Therapy is like anything else, if you don't put the work in you don't get anything out of it. If you think someone is going to say something to you to entirely change your life and inner brain function you deserve to waste your money
Always about that money. Aka greed. Like it's the easiest thing to see through you. Glass.
It took years to get rid of my shame. However my fear will still creep up. I just kept chipping
away at it. I will tell you the bulk of it was shedded in Crestone Colorado.
What happened in Crestone? I was surrounded by nature. Everything fell away from me. All distractions where pretty much gone. I could just be me. Clarity of thought came upon me. I realized that I wasn't who I thought I was. I realized that I wasn't the person I projected to others. I was just me. I came to accept myself...the good the bad and the ugly. I used this terminology because good and bad was all I was taught. Religion can do this to you. I even dropped that terminology all together. I now try to use beneficial or not beneficial. I also try to use acceptable or unacceptable. I left the christian church. I is to ridge. I'm more than that.
I learned no one could love a me that wasn't real. They were loving and image. Love couldn't be felt by me because of that. I still fight not to project this image. I'm not always successful at it. It's a process.
"Don't believe in yourself. Believe in me who believes in you!"
@Joltacks I think it was just a quote from Gurren Lagann
Believe in me who believes in you who believes in the heart of the cards
Dr k is really smart and really knows how to put words together..
Therapy is useless. And a waste of a lot of money and time. The benefit it gives in return for the money and time it costs is negligible.
What do you do when you don't have enough money to keep doing therapy for a long time and have already been to several psychologists ("only" for "normal" talks though, like they were a lot more like counselings than actual therapies), "failed", so you kinda lost hope in them too? "Failed" meaning that some of them didn't help at all, and some of them helped only for a few sessions, then you felt things going back to the way they were.
I've heard/read that the more progress you make, the harder relapses hit you. I can imagine this being at least partly true, because if you take a look at it logically, it's more disappointing to go to a 3 on a 1-to-10 scale from an 8 than from a 5, right? That's what I've been experiencing lately, and I think that I have achieved this 8-ish mood by myself. But when I'm feeling a 1 or 2 I can't help but think "am I going to struggle with anxiety/depression forever?", "is there anything or anyone that can cure me?"... It's so frustrating and I feel so hopeless at times like these.
In addition: my country's psychologists are mostly like what I described above - basically you just vent to them and they might offer some advice, but they're mostly there to just listen and let you figure things out on your own (these kinda professionals were also in one of Dr. K's videos). Frankly, I don't want to pay someone to only listen to me. But psychiatrists here aren't better either: they immediately want to describe meds for you, or if you don't like that idea then "go to a psychologist"... I'm not sure about coaches, tbh I'm not sure they're legit in my country.
So that only leaves me with two options if I wanna get outside help: either go to a real therapist (which I'm trying to do, but CBT therapists are currently have their hands full in my city), or look for an online opportunity like Betterhelp.
Sorry, this ended up being a long, messy vent, I'm not sure if I had an end goal in mind with this comment, lol. Just wanted to share the thoughts that popped up in my mind during this video. I envy people who are able to find a therapist suitable for them on their first or second try; I really wanna experience that feeling, but right now money is tight, so I can only go to a social insurance one (not sure if it's the same in English or not, but usually a health service that's already paid by your taxes), and those are really few, and usually not too good in quality...
I read your comment and I have experienced the same thing. In my country it is very expensive to get any psychological help, you have to wait months to be seen and when you see someone, they listen to you talk and then send you away. There’s no analysis, no treatment or therapy. I’ve been through this multiple times over many years and the result is always the same. Waiting three months to see a registered nurse and another three until seeing an actual psychiatrist, who then listens, does nothing, and returns you to visits with a nurse...well it’s hard to say this provides any real help. I feel you, friend. Take care of yourself.
Can you please make some content on how to sit with things? Instead of feeling them? I'm totally confused with the whole meditation notion of like, thoughts not being me, or feelings being external and not my experience, I don't get it and would love some guidance
I've tried 8 therapists, each time whole-heartedly believing that each time would make the difference, only to be met with an attitude that equates to "wow that sucks." You talk about therapists exhausting all resources like Dr. House, when most will not get nearly that far.
I feel no animosity to these people as I have no doubt they were all dealing with caregiver burnout. I'm saying this because I think as a whole we are ignoring the larger problems with therapy and its accessibility. Hardly anyone wants to state the obvious fact that many *therapists* are simply not effective for very human reasons. We aren't exploring the real possibility that many providers simply don't want to work with harder cases and are subconsciously filtering them out, or the fact insurance is based on "results." Don't even get me started on the therapists that lie or misrepresent their credentials. It's very common and is the main reason none of my therapists worked out.
Everyone wants to scream "go get help," only to divert their eyes and mumble something about "finding the right fit" when care is not avavlable in a financially or emotionally sustainable way.
Like with many things, we're patting our backs for catching the smaller fish while ignoring the whale lurking just below the surface.
I like how chat was omitted from most of the video. I find that it can be distracting and unnecessary in most of these types of videos.
thanks a lot for that video. i was ashamed a very very long time. And i went in therapy and... it didn't work. BUT... it wasn't useless. i learned a lot about myself, one step after one step. i agree with Shrek : "humans are like onions !" We cn't solve all the problem together, just one by one ! And it makes tears for that ! And, last year, i decided to go to a physiotherapist who practice meditation. It was very hard for me, i was a very miserable patient ! But she didn't give up ! She gave me hope and compassion and... just love. And now, i make good progress. The shame is still there, but i can deal with it. i can forgive myself ( because this physiotherapist dit that in first with me! ). it's a very hard journey, yeah. it takes a life... but it's not hopeless.. Just find someone, not even a therapist, who can manage this shame with you...
Maaan but if fixing such a powerful shame will take that long, by the time I'm finished I'll be 80 years old. It will be too late to start living life at that age.
How old are you now? What if your belief that it will take you till 80 years of age and not true? What if that is your thought loop convincing you over and over again?
What if you rewire your brain to not predict when you will overcome but just focus on overcoming it?
Forget about the time it will take just keep working at it with compassion and acceptance. You will be surprised to find that it might not take as long as you think it would.
I’d say that you’d gain a lot of progress in those 80 years. You’d be better than how you started. I did therapy for a few months and it gave me a lot of hope, really good supportive times, I’m hoping to start it up again. Also it’s never too late to start living, even if you’re 80 you aren’t dead yet.
@@arraikcruor6407 I don't know,
I'm 29 now, I was depressed until I was 24-25. but now I struggle with just, nothingness, monotony, I don't have any sort of desire or motivation, I don't have a full personality
@@Oogrilla Yes, but also the best part of your life is already wasted
@@Oogrillathere ain't much living to do at 80. Let alone by age 50.
For those suffering with finding a therapist, there are excellent videos on youtube who instruct you how to vet a therapist and what you should expect with a good therapist. Strongly recommend, helped me find someone I respect and trust
Amazing explanation 💙💙💙💙
Hey Dr. K how do you feel about jungian dream analysis therapy? Ive been doing it for a year and its helped me tremendously compared to my old CBT therapist
Dream analisis? Doesn’t that require you to remember your dreams?
I think it's worthwhile to say that a lot of shame comes from going against our values & so I'm taking a shot in the dark here but like covert narcissists & those who live with shame the longest often don't know their values or even themselves. And so how can you tackle your shame if you don't know who you are or what your best self looks like. And I stayed away from saying "who you want to be" because many people suffering from these feelings do have representation for "who they want to be" and use it to fill the void of their identity confusion. Some people have done truly bad things & can't forgive themselves until they tackle their lack of identity.
Also, there are different types of people, perception-wise. Some of them hold a belief that is core to their identity that a personality is to be discovered. That is, you need to try something to understand if this is "you" or "not you". It seems like some actors are like that, trying on various traits, outlooks on life, activities, etc., to see what resonates and sticks and what doesn't. And then there are people already packaged with values and ideas that are unmovable, who know from the get-go if something is a good fit for them or not. Finally, in the case of cover narcissists, how does one even begin to develop a firm sense of personality if there's nothing solid to lean against? Only automatic knee-jerk reactions to what's perceived as a threat to one's already fragile ego
Shit with the shame at the end with the accent had me DEAD 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
would definitely recommend exposure. can't really reason with shame. gotta expose that shit out. "show your ugliness"
Source on antidepressants being 70% placebo?
So if therapy isn't working it's 1) my fault and 2) I should keep paying for the thing that doesn't seem to be working. I can tell this advice was given by someone who makes money from doing therapy.
The fact that it’s a for profit system Does make it worse. They don’t help, they overcharge, you still feel bad and go back, rinse and repeat.
Why dose she feel that way???🙃. The fact she has alexithymia points to a nerodivergence CBT doesn't work for someone who is. And if she dosen't know that she is that is why she is feeling that way- it makes your life hell.
Not dropping the end screen after that initial NO was a big oversight here :D
When I see word Useless I can hear MudaMuda in my mind
This video yet was more effective then 2 of my therapy sessions
Therapy with good therapist is painful, but it make you see so many stuff, so yes therapy is crutial😊
The therapist job is to give sessions, not to heal the patient. Of course she should not stop, how is he going to get money otherwise ?
That's a real messed up way of looking at it. A therapist's job goes above the paycheck. It's to help people. I get your fear, but real therapists don't do it for the money. Most do it to help people.
If you get a sense that your therapist is your stereotypical money grabber, gtfo there and find a new one. Go to a clinic. Reach out to organizations.
@@serehero4722 People do not exist to service you. Of course they are going to "grab money", why would they NOT do it ? They are just doing their job.
@@Snipfragueur People do things because
1. They want to have to job doing something they enjoy
2. They'd live to survive doing said job.
Is it that hard for you to see that plenty of people care and do things because they WANT to help people out? Who don't have ulterior motives.
All the people whode services require lots of work but barely get paid like working for a nonprofit, running volunteer programs, helping a cause...
People who want to help because they want to help because they're good people exist.
Also, if $ issue is a worry for you, and you can't afford therapy (like me), there's programs and help out there that can help you get the service you need for a low low price. I think universities have their own thing.