"Forget the power of technology and science, for so much has been forgotten, never to be re-learned. Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for in the grim dark future there is only war." This quote alone should be enough to prevent the existence of the Primaris and Cawl in the lore.
It SHOULD. But after 30+ years most companies are going to run out of ways to package the same exact thing and get you to buy more. So at that point its a "Fuck it, Uber Super Soldiers that are bigger, tougher and have better guns then our already Super Soldiers". A company that LOVED their IP and setting would be content with selling enough old stuff to the newer players to print the same models for all eternity. GW and the like have to see bigger and bigger profits year over year so fuck the fluff here is stuff that makes ZERO sense according to fluff. AKA Where were these Skorpekh and Ophydian Destroyers the last 100 years?? All Necron designs are MILLIONS of years old but they only exist in game now?? Only TWO groups make sense for this, well maybe four now that I think of it. Tau, they are young and up and coming and refining their tech not just maintaining it so makes sense. Orks, they just cobble together whatever the fuck they want so yeah. Daemons, well they are LITERAL coalescent energy so they just think a new form and it exists. Tyranids, they are a 100% Biomechanical species so they will constantly make new forms. All Imperial factions, Marines, Sisters, Knights, Guard, Custodes are a stagnant empire. Same for Traitor Marines that should all be wearing MKV or at most MKVI power armor. Eldar and Dark Eldar are both a dieing decaying race so yeah nothing new really being made. Necrons went to sleep over 50 MILLION years ago and all of their race that existed then is all there ever will be of their race. Bottom line 4 out of the 20+ some odd groups would have legitimate, in cannon, reasons to get new models/units as their fluff fits new stuff coming up. Everyone else would be stuck with what they have always had and thats it.
@@memnarch129 or we can say 'the necrons had tech that was not issued to all dynasties. And as some have awoken early, there has been some well disguised THIEVERY, reprogramming, and repainting stolen stuff.' Trazyn has some good points sometimes As for primaris suddenly appearing, it's kind of logical: it took The Emperor a few hundreds of years of bribes, threats, and a lot of blackmail to get the tools to build the tools that build the tools needed for firstborn Astartes geneseed. His top gene smith goes bonkers, so the first version of geneseed made from primarch DNA has to be enough for now. Will iterate later. Then he becomes psychic brocolli, and one of his super genius sons is too stupid to continue. So he writes a genius/madman a blank check and waves him on his way. Said madman has to spend years and years repeating the bribe, threat, blackmail process to make the tools. But slower. Not being a golden giant with a +5000 Charisma modifier with double advantage on Persuade and Intimidate tends to slow the process
@@memnarch129 GW could have sold us new marines with a simple rescale of their brand due to an evolution in the modeling capabilities, or they can simply build new models for their super hold brands like eldars and others that recieve 0 love for so long. the truth is that GW didn't simply wanted to make SM owner buy a new army, they want their product to blend in more with other standard of sify so that they can sell their product to the "broader audiance" the normies, the npc
Here's something to ponder. It's university-level engineers that calculate precisely from general physical laws. I once had a higher-level vocational engineering student as my flatmate. He explained the difference simply by asking me how I would figure out how much electric capacity I would put in a server room. I would start calculating the power consumption of servers I plan to install there and how many of those I could fit. He just told me, that he just multiplies the floor area with a constant that he has learned in a school. They don't operate from the perspective of natural laws but from the perspective of simpler rules, which is a lot faster to utilize and follow those rules. I would imagine that people who maintained the machines on mars were VOCATIONAL people and the university level thinking was not required for those tasks. And trying to innovate a better way would be too risky. So when people who would invent from physics rules are lost but people who religiously follow a way simpler set of rules with a game of the broken telephone we eventually get mechanicum.
The Admech is also the canonical descendants of the Transhumanist movement. FM-2030 is considered an ancient sage or saint. Source: Gods of Mars series
Yes, the Enginseer is the backbone of the Mechanicus. They are custodians that perform maintenance duties on holy machines: that is the origin of the Martian cult. The practical maintenance guys survived and were the only ones who knew how to keep the machines running and they built a religion around hoarding that knowledge and keeping it from the uninitiated.
You know, Cawl sounds like he could be a great character. A person who lives for thousands of years trying to respark the dead light of invention in a decaying Imperium. The main problem is he popped up overnight storywise. If he had been a in multiple novels for years trying to achieve his goals, I think he would actually be looked upon a bit better.
If he's 10k years old, it's really strange that he was hiding under the table all this time just to emerge with unlimited quantities of NuMarines, complete with wargear and vehicles. He wouldn't have been half as irritating and marysue-ish if we could trace the path that led him to this grand finale throughout the dozens of centuries.
I kind of hope he's like some unwitting avatar of Tzeench and that all the stuff he's making ends up causing another Great Heresy, which would be a neat set up for going into the 42nd millennium.
As a machinist, I can inform you we are exactly the loss of one book ( the machinist hand book, seriously it's our Bible) from ending up just like this. Being unable to reproduce a slightly unusual screw unless we already have stockpile we make all the time.
Well....not exactly. We still have millions of tap and die sets out there. And being a manual tool, its not THAT complicated to make. But, you're going to have a greatly diminished production output, but, its not impossible to make them without machine tools. Just slower and more difficult. Smiths were making them before the industrial revolution. I know that's hard for a lot of people to accept, but, go look up the history of technology. You'll find a lot of people made some rather complicated and precise machinery without the resort of machine tools because they didn't exist yet.
@@Wastelandman7000 His statement is still true, though. Because just making a screw isn't good enough, you have to match the specific measurements, too. Most products of machine tools require that exact machine tool to reproduce them.
@@rottenmeat5934 The main issue is that making just one screw or bolt or whatever component isn't the issue, you can have an apprentice working with a file and a rod of metal and eventually have a screw according specification. What you want is the capability of mass production with specific tolerances, so you need more than the manual, you need the machinery it's based on. The machinist handbook is a great reference, but if there is no lathe or even no proper measuring devices, you're still guessing on what to do, even more so when you want to automate things.
I find it funny that 40K actually explains the lack of reverse engineering while comics have been simply saying "only a super genius was smart enough to make this" or a super soldier serum from the WW2 not being replicated easily because reasons. At least the Cog Boys have an excuse for this, and an actually interesting one at that. The idea of not understanding science itself, and the things your playing with are so advanced that even if you did get the scientific basics they would be little help, is not something you see often to say the least.
Yeah, it always bugged me that they never try to make more Captain Americas, or have Tony Stark hand over his suit designs. 40K actually has some interesting explanations for some of the crazy stuff that happens.
@@robertnelson9599 You can't (shouldn't) have good guys like tony stark and batman that claim to want to help people, and yet have the setting take place in a seemingly similar earth as our own. These "heroes" greedily horde their technology away from mankind. Their heroics are cheapened when you consider how much better they could serve humanity by advancing humanities technological prowess. Iron man's "energy generation" technology being an obvious one...
It’s a lot more complicated than just prayer. A lot of the chants the Mechanicus use are actually code and instructions for their machines. Heck one of them is literally a song on how to keep your lasgun in working order. After all, what’s the easiest way to pass on knowledge? Through rhymes and songs. Even some biblical passages have a sort of “tune” to them.
@@robertnelson9599 When there are many cases in the setting of that LITERALLY BEING THE CASE? Its not as silly as it sounds if its the actual truth. A shocking amount of the Imperium's tech base seems to have at least some form of rudimentary AI built in, and the more advanced pieces of tech like Titans and starships and such seem to ones that are far more advanced, although albeit not fully sapient seemingly.
@@papapalps2415 i personally theorize that Machine Spirits are more than just semi sapient AIs and possibly closer to actual fragments of what were once fully conscious humans whos minds were fully digitized to pilot their Titians and other vehicles more effectively to combat the Men of Iron when they went coo coo for coco puffs during the cybernetic revolt. I use the castigator titian as my evidence for this theory seeing as not only was that titian far far more advanced than Imperial Titians it was more importantly a fully sapient AI construct. This leads me to believe that All Imperial Titians originate from DAoT / Cybernetic Revolt era men of iron warframes that were still being assembled at their factories ...... basically that the Men of Iron them selves ranged in size from at least around human infantry sized units to units as large as the castigator titian possibly even larger .... up to and including starship scales as well. Realistically DAoT humans only hope to even the odds against a widespread "possibly chaos scrap code induced" AI revolt like that would be to simply not install any AI on their titian warframes yet to be built or completed for example and substitute the AI with a digitized human mind or minds along with a physical pilot and or pilots using an adapted Knights mind impulse unit to ad hock modify what was once a fully automated unit into one crewed by humans and whose AI is substituted by a digitized human mind and or minds. it explains why imperial titians have so many variants that broadly range in size as they were not merely originally copied from titians and that titians themselves ARE in essence repurposed men of iron warframes used by DAoT humans during the cybernetic revolt ....... or at the very least a copy of a copy of a copy based on said original models of that era.
@@Phenixtri I wouldn't be overly surprised if that was the case. The Imperium in of itself skirts the lines of AI a lot more than people tend to believe or it tells itself, for that matter. It just gets around the 'artifical' part by using organic parts instead (like, say, human brains), bit it ultimately amounts to much the same thing. I can very easily see DAoT humanity doing the same 'I'm not touching you! I'm not touching you!' routine as well.
I've heard that there's actually a lot of proper maintenance procedures in the Mechanicus prayers. Something like "turn the knob a quarter turn to the left before opening the panel."
Yup indeed. The random prayers they have to recite are full of nonsense, but also contain instructions for whatever maintenance the prayer is related to. And since the mechanicum know these prayers by heart, they effectively know their instructions perfectly
@@chrismorel8613, yes it was also a tech-priest ability in the tabletop game Only War. It was called the Ceremony of the Knock e.g. percussive maintenance.
"Oh blessed Omnisiah, please grant my occuceptors the ability to properly identify this sacred screw" "Thank you blessed Omnisiah, I shall now begin the litany of #2 screw removal, then we can begin." "First thou shalt collect thine holy bit, and it's size shall be #2. Size #1 shall be too small and size #3 shall not fit, so #2 shall be the bit - #5 being right out, but #2 being the right size shall be chosen".....
The year is 60000. Guiliman still does his thing, chaos is chaosing, the Tyranids stopped at a drive through and are stuck there. On Mars the techpriest managed to reverse engineer a Tau plasma rifle, the Tau are extinct for the past 10000 years. Extinction because of the grater good.
And Trazyn added to his collection An Ork who doesn't want to fight, A Kriegsman who wants to be immortal, A Berzerker who is a Sniper, A Felinid Sister of Battle and the Nicest Night Lord to ever live.
One of the best products of Ork reverse engineering in my opinion is Da Rippa, an Ogryn gun modified to use plasma. Repeat: An Ork. Made a plasma weapon in rapid fire. Out of a fully automatic shotgun.
Naw, the “everyone in the universe is stupid but me,” syndrome was strong in the lore fifteen years ago. Girliman is just the logical end result. They couldn’t move the narrative forward without a fedora redeemer.
"Turns out that screw that was slightly different was not because it was supposed to go in another hole but because it was possessed by a demon and now, so is our ship.." -some poor Adept
One of the interesting thing about ritualization - It introduces controlled timing. Imagine of a Spring has to be tightened to a specific Torque, but you can't even begin to fathom how to teach the person doing that task how to calculate such things. You can teach them how to chant though, and how to make precise movements along side those chants, to create a ritual. As long as they follow the timing introduced by the ritual, making the strokes with their tools in the exact same methods each time... should get that Torque just right.
Pretty much, yeah. "Plug the red cable in, recite this prayer at this speed, when done, proceed onto the blue cable and repeat." Also serves as an excellent form of memorization.
Or you build a mindless machine to do menial tasks for you with the exact same precision every time, without needing it to learn chanting and at a much higher speed and precision than a human could do 24/7/365.
@@Schnittertm1 "Skitarii would like to know your location, tech heretic." Joking aside there's the problem, eventually if the machine does the work what happens if it fails or the files corrupt? Normally you'll back ups or someone who knows how to do it but that's what humanity lost in 40k, without the STCs they had no way to know how to build the hyper advanced technology except the few printed out copies or barely functional remaining pieces.
@@Schnittertm1 Servitors are used for this exact purpose. They count as human-enough by Mechanicus standard to perform relatively simple rites of maintenance and repair, once properly "assembled" and blessed.
@@Schnittertm1 servitors exist and do what you said. However in the 40k setting there are 95 bajillion humans , so a fully functioning servitor would probably be worth a LOT more than a mere civilian. So i don't think the higher-up people in 40k really care about individual humans who might have to do tasks wich might have been easily done by machines , but it's the other way around here. Why waste a machine when you have zogillions of humans who could do the same task with almost no cost at all.
in all likelyhood, these analogy is what the mechanicum actually believes. Once a resistor deviates from the 'fluid in a pipe'-model, say a NTC-resistor, they are at a loss, as they don't understand the actual physiscs
@@Skaldewolf Yeah, and Arch doesn't understand the actual physics either. You're also telling me that techpriests build themselves out into mechanical monstrosities without understanding basic electrical systems? You're telling me that techpriests maintain dark age tech while being incompetents? Dude, that takes more talent than just building a new one. It's ridiculous. Religious doctrine is law, not science. It's a pretty simple walk toward just restricting technology to what has been "blessed by the Omnissiah," to force innovation within regularly debated grounds, but that would make them too reasonable. It's a shame that GW can't even hold the line that they're ignorant, either, because all of the Mechanicus has some exotic super weapon to pull out of their bum at all times.
My favorite part was Arch explaining electricity is the movement of electrons... into the "water in a pipe" theory... into explaining a resistor while describing an inductor. Or forgetting what a screw driver, or wrench is called.
I always thought the reason they struggle with recreating Dark Age technology was just its so comically advanced. I can understand why they’d be uneasy about messing around with such things.
I remember reading about a gun that fired nanobots that eat people. The Mechanicus understands the concept just fine, but they cannot study the nanobots because they devour everything they touch.
That’s my headcannon for it. It’s not that the Mechanicus can’t innovate, or understand tech, or reverse engineer some xeno tech, but it’s the truly advance almost magical stuff they don’t mess with. It’s like asking medieval scholars and engineers ( who were a lot smarter then people think) to build you a nuclear reactor or nanobots. They might understand the base concept, what it is, but they wouldn’t even know where to start on making their own. The science behind said tech is beyond what they have.
@@bc9402 Yeah, the STCs probably messed things up. There's no need to understand the process to use the factory. It's also quite possible to be able to make something advanced, but not know how to improve on it without putting everything in jeopardy. It's even worse if some tech in tooling gets lost to history. Like, people wondered a long time on how the pyramid were built. Just because the techniques used were lost to history. Maintaining currently owned machines is a lot more easy than making a copy or improving on it. Chaos is probably another factor here. If enough people think that a machine cannot be understood, there's a chance that no one will be able to understand it. Even if it is simple. The mechanicus believes that it's impossible, so it becomes impossible. To some extent.
People from 1940s couldn't comprehend todays tech. It would take them dozens of years to reverse engnieer an MBT or a Fighter Jet. Since they don't understand what is a Thermal Camera or an AESA radar or network based warfare. Sure they understand that jets sends pictures and data,real time each other to shoot from an unexpected angle. But to how they do it,they would have absolutely no clue.
There's an important factor outside the religious one to remember too, a lot of Forge Worlds keep, for lack of a better term, proprietary secrets on the various pieces of tech. Take Forgeworld Ryza for example, masters of plasma, both weaponry and power generation, of course they wouldn't do anything so bold as say withhold information from Mars, but they might leave out a couple components here or maybe a few little details about specific production and refining processes for the materials used in cooling that makes their plasma generators significantly more efficient than what Mars or one of the other Forgeworlds has available. Sure it would be beneficial to the Imperium as a whole for everyone to know but that could jeopardize Ryza's position and clout if suddenly everyone can do what they do. Besides how exactly would they communicate this? You really gonna telepathically signal the complex details through some telepathica adept and hope nothing gets lost in translation? I get the feeling a good number of the higher-ups in the Mechanicus are like the Covenant Prophets in Halo, resting their comfy arses in the nearest hover chair because nobody is gonna know how the hyper advanced battleship works without them, unless you want to have a chat with the explosive laden tech support squids.
Reverse engineering is painfully hard. Imagine a tank ,its armor is somekind of admantium alloy or somekind of advanced sytnthetic adamantium,not pure adamantium or plasteel,or ceramite like the Imperium uses metal. They know its exact compostion but have no idea how to reproduce it.They mess up constantly:metal becomes brittle,too weak,too soft or too expensive. They do not have the facilites,maybe even a machinery to reproduce something from 10000 years ago. They have to build new factories,teardown old ones(technoheresy!) on tier one forge wolds just to produce armor samples. While the Imperial Warmachine constantly screams for weapons,the Inquistion constantly harass them or other rival forgeworlds. Technology in the Imperium reminds me like it was in the late Soviet Union:soviet scientists had wonderful ideas,but the industry simply couldn't keep up with them. The prototypes were more advanced than their serial produced models that came after them. Same with the Imperium techpriest have wonderful tools and have awesome knowledge,but they are not the majority. The majority is some noname PDF trooper who can hardly read and with the life expentancy of 48 hours in case of a major invasion. They need cheap weapons and quickly. Not volkite or plasma weapons.
@@robby7025 Sure,sure Aztecs started to copy spanish steel and gunpowder really quickly,or Chienese and Japanese instanly rose on par with the West technologically. Do not judge from WWII or Cold war were both sides were roughly on par with technology. Imperium is thousands of years behind the Golden Age of Man. In every aspect.
@@robby7025 It is easy if you are working at a similar level of knowledge. But actually going from barely understanding the function of some of those golden age devices to actually producing them is completely different. Heck some of them even after 10k years in use the Mechanicum still barely has the first clue how they work as so much has been lost. To put in perspective 40k as we see it is essentially overall maybe 5 to 6 centuries ahead of us right now if you exclude warp stuff. Bolters? All the tech exists right now it just is not viable right now. Power armor? Other then the fusion backpack we could reproduce it might not be as good since we lack the same materials but we could. So on and so forth. I am being generous there mind you. While golden age tech they are trying to understand is far ahead of that. Imagine 10k years of unimpeded technical and scientific development assisted at least in part by strong type AI. There were entirely disciplines of science lost. So the Mechanicum is not working at a similar tech base in many regards they have a technical knowledge level below our own that is how badly they have regressed. To put in perspective how absurd golden age humanity was the only faction we see that objectively had better TECH was the Necrons and even then it is debatable at times. The Eldar relied on their powers and the warp hence why I don't put them also at golden age level. The golden age literally had machines that broke the conservation of energy. Literally changing physical matter into raw data actually even worse then that literally converting space time itself into data. That is how absurd the golden age was.
Also thing to note is that lets take for instance modern day and F22 raptor. Yes we have plans for them and least partially all documentation on processes how to make the parts, but those assembly lines were already taken apart, machinery sold or moved to other assembly lines, so it would be just as expensive to rebuild assembly lines and start producing F22's than develop more modern fighter plane.... if you ignore F35 disaster/peace of shit that is. With caveat that new plane has most modern tech available and F22 is still older tech. Its amazing plane that is more than a match to anything made today, but it starts to get old design. Ou and there is possibility if just one plane is lost due crash, captured or anything like that, that potential enemies are gaining knowledge of the high level military secrets. Older the design is, more chances enemy has to gain knowledge about the aircraft. This is why despite being the best air superiority fighter in the world the wont be any more F22's that are made. Existing ones will serve long as their airframes have hours and then cannabilized for parts to keep other planes operational
Imperium: Scientific progress is a dead art. Tau: Scientific progress is the forge of survival. Orks: Science iz dakka. One of these is the most successful race of 40k.
if we are going by a strictly evolutionary definition of success, it's the orks by far. long lived, far reaching, incredibly reproductive, and extremely hardy and virulent. but then the tyranids might be beyond number from the outside, and thus even more successful. and their technology is: "SKREEE SKREE SKREEEE!"
what would've been more interesting is if Cawl ended up vindicating his contractors by creating a few abominations, catastrophes, and longterm complications as a result of his experiments and creations
Like perhaps unleashing a C'tan Shard or several upon the galaxy? After actively betraying it and then letting it out of it's prison into regular space? Yeah he did that. Cawl's also got a bunch of Necron tech stuck in his head, to the point where his eyes turn green (and he also can control Necron Scarabs.) Arch likes to forget things sometimes to make his point more dramatic. Today he seems particularly choleric.
Well the Deathwatch managed to field Masking Screen devices that largely mimic Stealth Suit capabilities within a few Decades of the Damocles Gulf Crusade with some flaws here and there. Plus supposedly the most common type of Imperial EMP grenades are basically copies of TAU designs.
Ohohoho I can only imagine how hard the Tau must have shit in their Battle Suit pants when they realized there are invisible giants in power armor afoot.
And you can wear a Chameleon adaptive camo Cloak plus a noise canceling "Stummer" generator with it at the same time or at least the Deathwatch core rule book plus it's errata sheet don't say you can't use them together...
I imagine it is like finding a 3D printer that makes legos and then assembles them into other 3D printers, which is fine until you run out of plastic and it starts to use whatever is on hand.
The Imperium - technology without science (without understanding WHY anything works). Not as weird as it sounds - as few people before the Ancient Greeks were interested in "why" questions (scientific laws), if doing X produced something useful people did X (without bothering their heads about "why" - it was just "the Gods" or "the spirits", or whatever).
They also show this the The Foundation series by Isaac Asimov. One book has people from a technologically advanced society travel to a world where electricity only exists because of priests that run the power plant. The difference in understanding is fascinating.
@C J B if they had instructions and training they certainly could. Might not know the reasons behind what they do. It’s a similar situation to the Chinese Room where through a set of very thorough instructions a question asked in chinese can be answered in chinese with no one in the room knowing any chinese.
Not quite true, people were always interested in *why*, but they never had the knowledge or foundation to truly examine those questions. While it is certainly true that the Ancient Greeks formalised the Scientific Method (though I do not believe for a minute they INVENTED it) they still came up with some seriously odd ideas that were well off track using those very principles because the technology required to measure much of what they were trying to observe simply did not exist. The Ancient Greeks for example were the ones who came up with the idea of Spontaneous Generation to explain how flies reproduced, and this was more or less accepted for centuries because they could not see the eggs with the unaided eye. Of course, Spontaneous Generation was actually disproven WITHOUT the requirement of microscopes, but that is bye the bye. Many Theories we look back on seem odd or ridiculous now, but we have to remember that at the time those people often did not have the equipment to measure what they were trying to observe, or the base of knowledge upon which to build their Hypothesis. Take the idea that disease was caused by bad smells, of course, it is not, we know it is Pathogens of various kinds, however those pathogens often proliferated in unhygienic, smelly conditions. You get rid of the bad smells by introducing say a Roman Style plumbing and sewage system and you get rid of the things that cause both the bad smell and the proliferation of the pathogens. Problem is until the invention of the microscope only ONE of those things could be detected..... So you begin to understand WHY some of those Theories held up for so long..... They could not detect the Bacteria or Single Celled animals causing diseases, let alone Viruses, but they COULD detect the bad smell. You see?
How tech works by faction... Imperium: Prayer Tau: Science Tyranids: Biology Eldar: Magic Orks: Magic Chaos: Magic and Prayer Necrons: Literal Dead Gods
I find it incredibly fascinating that the mechanicus does everything it does on "how does the shaman make the lightning?" logic. They're like if a cargo cult found the ruins of America and started slowly learning how to reproduce the machines.
The more confusing part of this is that this is WH40K, where fervent vbelief and ritual can actually bend reality. Sometimes, it will work because they believe the oils are in deed sacred and that applying it will make the cogs spin.
You got to give the mechanicus more credit. They probably are great engineers, but the tech they work with is just so advanced that its beyond their comprehension. For all we know the prayers are just instructions that they memorized, but in a language they don't understand. Try assembling a complex machine with instructions in the wrong language, its very frustrating and you start praying for it to work after several days.
The way i see it, reverse engeneering in 40 k is like handing a medieval smith a car to reverse engeneer. He cant create a battery or gasoline or motoroil or tyres, even if he managed to forge a new engine , he would not be able to build a battery (doesnt understand that acid+led +wires+ spark plug = electricity+spark), he could , maybe figure out oil, or go withouth proper tyres , but fuel would be difficult.
Find some way to send 2 pieces of info with the car.. an arrow pointing to oil saying dead dragon soup and one to the fuel with exploding dragons go here! Lol
Harry Turtledove wrote a book called The Guns of the South, in which time traveling Afrikaners supplied AKs to the Confederacy. The part where the Tredegar arsenal tried to reproduce the AK and its ammo was very interesting, even if the book was pure fantasy.
Honestly, I don't feel Primarus marines were introduced for plot purposes. I think GW just wanted all space marine players to have to buy all their models again.
Didn't the Imperium actually NEED primaris marines after Cadia stood and bussed a big one accross the galaxy? So many chapters with only a couple squad members surviving the endless wars etc.
@@OljeiKhan For some reason it forgot my response -.- Anyway the imperium did probably need the primarus after the fall of cadia. However the introduction of them just felt out of place lore wise. It's a galaxy where the imperium is too large for them to defend. They're troops and resources are under attack from all sides and they are stretched to their absolute limit. Yet Caul comes out of nowhere with a shit ton of new and better space marines. Like how did you manage to scrounge all this together? We could have used it sooner. Another youtuber explained it better but the idea was the entire imperium is falling apart. It's a glorious last stand to keep things going just a little bit longer and someone comes out of nowhere with a shit ton of reinforcements. Making their sacrifices seem meaningless now.
I find a machine. Not sure how it works. I mess around with it, and it still doesn't work. So I begin to utter the litany of four-lettered oaths while figuring it out. I begin to invoke the many insults of one's mother and person, and the machine begins to work. As it sputters to life and makes horrendous noise, I continue to recite the litany until the noise becomes tolerable.
@@DISTurbedwaffle918 You just described the life of a mechanic. Or CNC machine operator. I swear to Omnissiah, those pieces of fiendish technology can stop working because they have bad humour. And than start working again for shit and giggles once you tried EVERY FUCKING THING!
@@captainpuffinpuffinson4769 But would the inquisition be concerned with the mechanicus definition of heresy? I imagine they dont give a shit if someone neglects his sacred bs in order to understand the tech. They are probably more concerned with some "genius" improving upon the tech by adding new and "improved" machine spirits to it aka demons
Maybe it is cause I am old, maybe it is because I know the narrative damage that can be done, but I don't like rapid changes in fiction. There are certain things you simply leave 'cemented in stone' because they set the tones and stages on which other stories can be written. This attempt to move Warhammer from a Science-Fantasy setting into a Science-Fictional setting is going to go badly for the old lore.
I believe you can make big changes but there had to be a lot of groundwork, and unfortunately most writers nowadays are just "move from cool thing to next cool thing." My favorite punching bag of this is the Star Wars Sequel Trilogy, with a little development the setting and premise could have worked (if you put a lot of work fixing Princess Palpatine) but they never built or gave a reason why, "Why is the Empire still around?" "No no they're the First Order, and you'll have to read the tie in novels in two or three years." "What happened to the Republic?" "They, uhh lost the will to live? Anyway who cares you have rebellion 2.0 to enjoy and we'll have several tie in novels, a couple comics and a musical theatre production to explain them and then be totally ignored in the next where they get entirely new powers and backstories."
Because we know All Electronics benefit from having hot wax seals and then being doused in perfumed oils. That would never cause anything to Short Circuit.
well of course it would. i mean you clearly used the wrong wax for your seal, should have burned some incense as you applied it and you failed to sing the 66th hymn of insulation before turning it on.
@@kertas1991111 Heretic, the omnissiah is be greatly displeased with you, clearly your passion for the toaster and sins of the pathetic flesh. The omnissiah clearly demands the 142nd invocation of inspection, and the 12th Litany of ignition.
Related to this topic and how the Imperium fundamentally misses the point of reverse engineering because they don't know science - I've honestly wondered if / when Roboute Guilleman would actually try to re-introduce science to the Imperium - it sounds like a great storyline to me; you set up a foundation of humans off in isolation on a space station or an isolated, depopulated former agri-world and get them to reinvent human civilization, starting from fire and working their way up the tech tree as fast as they can, without the help of the Mechanicus. Then the Mechanicus finds out what Roboute was up to and throws a fit and he has to negotiate to avoid both his foundation getting destroyed AND starting a war with the Mechanicus.
Letting the human civilization develop from scratch would take tens of millennia. I know that RowBoat GirlyMan is practically immortal, but that's way too long. On the other hand, trying to re-invent the scientific process would make a lot of sense, and also put him in conflict with the Mechanicus.
@@pirig-gal Mechanicus is not THAT bad - for example there are Magoses who are actually interested to examine the rituals of technology to point they will figure out that lenght of the copper wire will matter for different application. It just takes bit longer. After all - the precision of the ritual is in question. Thats what you have to pursue to be as pure as possible.
@@Paerigos An empirical method, but with a religious tint. No wonder it's slow. Fucking up an experiment today is not a tragedy, in 40k it's a sin and brings accusations of tech-heresy!
If Robo Girlieman actually tried to teach them how to reverse engineer a light bulb the ineptus mechanicus, ineptus arbites, ineptus munitorum, the ecclesiarchy, His most wasteful inqusition, and the enfuago sororatas would declare him a heretic and try exterminatis the 500 world's and any he'd been on since being resurrected.
The "stripping away a resistor completely and still not getting slightest hints at the underlying physics" was not entirely convincing, but that doesn't take away from this video's greatness. Much appreciated content.
I almost wonder if the Mechanicus' general lack of understanding is a narrative device meant to show what they sacrificed by renouncing their flesh and becoming machines. Humans are capable of learning and understanding the mechanisms behind things, but machines simply do what they are designed to without any knowledge of why.
Hmm did you ever work in a factory? This is how I'd think of the mechanicus. Basically you have the person operating the machine who only cares about pressing a certain button at a certain time and the machine does the thing. And believe me the vast majority of these people don't care about why or how (servitor) Then you have the service techs. They just have the instructions on how to fix certain problems when they arise. The vast majority of repairs is just swapping out parts responsible for a certain function that stopped working for whatever reason (techpriest) Above that you have the technical engineers who are responsible for certain calibrations. Usually within specifications provided by the manufacturer of the machine in question. They don't know how to build the machine, but they have a better understanding of why and how something works yes (tech adept? Whatever the rank above the techpriest is) And finally I'll just clump up everyone who worked on creating the machine under the manufacturer. They have the actual knowladge and documentation on how every little detail of the said machine works. (Lets call it magus) That's what my "headcannon" is for the mechanicus and their workings. Mainly since I refuse to believe that the people on the top of mechanicus don't understand at least some fundamentals. That's why I kinda like Cawl. He might be a mcguffin, but at least he's a mcguffin with a working brain.
Wasn't one of the big reasons why it's so hard to reverse-engineer older technology in the Imperium of Man was because it was made during the Dark Age of Technology? From what few hints we have about the DAOT, humanity was more on the level of telling the Eldar "that's cute" and being able to laugh at the best of what the Culture could do. Probably the only "current" society/race in the 40K universe that is close to DAOT humanity is the Necrons, and I suspect that they're neck-and-neck. And, part of the problem is that the Imperium lacks (or so we think) strong AI in one form or another. Many of the things that the Imperium is trying to create or reproduce or recreate are intricate on a scale that the gearing and the mechanisms of a pocket watch might as well be a stone strapped to a stick with rawhide lashings. The sheer *scale* of what is needed is accomplish things is scary at times. Or the sheer level of detail required to accomplish something. I suspect the "primitive" nature of 40K warfare, by any technical standards, is because they have so many countermeasures in place for more "sophisticated" efforts. And, this doesn't even account for the interference of the Ruinous Powers. One of the reasons why a lot of Imperial tech is so clunky is because that "clunk" is factors that had to be engineered in, or out, to keep some poor Guardsman from summoning a Hound of Khorne every time he pulled the trigger on his lasgun. Or having the hive's vox sets be easily used by a Demon Princess of Slannesh to spread the good word around.
The last time i was involved in reverse engineering a tech wonder from our glorious past we ended up with the entirety of the Show called Friends on DVD!
Tech priest completes millenia long project of producing a archaic data storage device. The Imperium stands in awe of the technological wonder that is the Zune.
Well contrary to popular memes, they do invent, it just happens very very slowly because of the reason you mentioned: the cogboys doctrinal, religious view of science.
25:30 Arch. Did you just take a pot shot at the Chinese for inventing Gunpowder half a millennia before knowing proper Chemisty, and then assume its only use was fireworks? LOL
Honestly, I do struggle with conceptualizing admech for myself and I’ve probably given it more though than might be considered appropriate by some considering it’s fiction, but admech is definitely one of my favorite factions so here we are. Anyways, on one hand, the idea of the ignorant tech priest who doesn’t have the slightest idea how anything works, but is then not only entrusted (admittedly by circumstance) with all of mankind’s knowledge, but also actively puts so much trust in this tech he literally jams it onto his body is very interesting and appealing. On the other hand, an Organisation of that kind of individuals works best either on smaller scale (not as a major pillar of a galactic empire) or in a setting wh40k used to be. The kind of setting where everybody is miserable all the time and ship guns are exclusively reloaded with chains and slaves. But these days I feel that wh40k wants to go for a more serious, but still dark, tone (any discussion on the successful execution of this non withstanding). That’s the kind of setting I prefer and I tend to filter out as much grimderp as I can without completely diverging from Warhammer. From this standpoint I find admech as described in this video somewhat immersion breaking for me. There’s just no way they don’t have any theoretical scientific knowledge. Jut from a practical standpoint, the imperium is shown to have a wide array of equipment made of a wide array of materials. You need to manufacture those. Does the admech literally just have an exact (or good enough) blueprint of all the types of assemblies and factories they’d need for this? And alright, their database probably is that huge, but wouldn’t you need to make modifications for the various planetary environments across the galaxy? Surely that involves some understanding. And what of their implants? Sure, the implants they provide the masses are probably some sort of standard design (STC or otherwise), but the stuff high ranking magii have looks quite custom. Again, do they have that many STC parts for cybernetics? Sure, the more creative ones could just stuck several STC Paters together, but these advanced augments are said to do stuff like extend your life by centuries. I don’t find it very probable that something jury rigged from spare parts of unrelated machines be so wonderous. I mean, it would probably function to some degree, but I doubt the health benefits would be so great as they are shown to be. So yeah, most admech lore seems to be from the good old grimderp days. It has charm and uniqueness in it, but if taken seriously, the imperium would collapse into the Stone Age within the year. I am still working on a head cannon compromise that makes them work as a space faring society without throwing away what makes ademch to be admech.
It isn't head canon, its just Arch pretending the silly memes are AKSHUALLY canon. It has about as much basis to it as, say, 'all Guardsmen are shit eating 'tards that die within 15 seconds'. Which is to say; yes, to some extent, but not really. Just like there are obviously an infinite number of counter examples to the Guardsmen shit, there are a vast number of examples to the contrary for the Cog Boys. There are just too many cases of them innovating and improving shit and geniune intelligence, or even genius, demonstrated to just handwave all of it away and pretend they are all drooling invalids that geniunely think waving incense infront of the jammed macro cannon will fix it. That and, of course, there's the basic common sense aspect of it all (again, not really 'head canon') which dictates that the idea that a galaxy spanning government that has functioned semi-well for over 10k years is literally incapable, across its ENTIRE fucking population and breadth, a government that has such stupendously advanced technology its functionally magic from our perspective, who run around the cosmos in multi km space ships that can casually shit out dino-killer levels of energy......of grasping even basic scientific principles, is so unimaginably moronic that it isn't worth addressing.
Just look at the servitors, there is no way those could be made (even if they could be "standardized" with clones of the same unfortunate man, which they are not) without an advanced understanding of cybernetics, electronics, and, especially, biology.
The jump between electron flow, to pipe "theory" gave me education whiplash... fallowed by the "description" of a resistor (inductor) was priceless... but my favorite part was "oil makes a cog move" and tech priests are stupid for thinking its the holly aspect (not the force applied to a cog).
Ya know I really love this about the imperium more so because I'm an repairman myself and the thought of saying prayers and conducting rituals to take the panel off a furnace makes me giggle. Not now I'm conducting the rights of charging the air conditioning and if I don't anoint the compressor with the correct amount of the sacred fluids it will anger the compressor's machine spirit.
To be fair to the mechanicus, they are kind of ‘right,’ in the sense that belief does literally translate into reality in 40k. Therefore, while it may not originally have been necessary for all the ritualistic nonsense they include, 10,000 years of everyone believing it’s necessary has almost certainly made it so to some degree.
As a Admech fan boy, its a bit of column A, bit of Column B, a dash of C, etc. Ritual is very important, but the Mechanicus *does* understand the basic scientific methods and why certian things work. And a lot of the confusion surrounding the AdMech is due to conflicting writers and lore. Really old lore from Rogue Trader/ 2nd edition days the Admech were as Arch described. In more recent times, the AdMech began to be a bit more scientific and understood far more. But DAoT relics are so beyond current imperial tech that there is no way to replicate it and what they can replicate, they don't make copy blue prints for because of the AdMech's unfortunate tendency to want to horde every scrap of knowledge they can. Ryza is famous for it's plasma weaponry as an example because they refuse to share that knowledge outside of the cult on Ryza. Which is why lost technology becomes more common, when you have a handful of individuals who understand a technology and the underlying principles of the tech then they all get wiped out due to can accident, invasion, assassination, etc, shit gets dicey quick. And make no mistake, the Mechanicus is still very spiritual, with every machine spirit being treated with reverence, and with how 40k works, there is some truth to the machine spirits.
This could be a boon for RPG GM's (Rogue Trader or more modern 40k rpgs), you find a STC-shard that explains properties of Copper or other such component. It would not be lore-breakingly grounds shattering moment, but still it would be worthy reward of whatever fight players just had as Mechanicus would drool over any STC.
3:30 Sorry Arch but you activated my Well Aktually. Few years back, the Powers That Be decided to make a small recon to The Plague Wars series by Mr. Haley, dialing back the time skip. Last I knew, it's been about under a decade, by Terra's reckoning, since Biggest Blueberry Lord Of Ultramar got back in the game alongside all of Uncle Cawl's neat toys. The reasoning being, the events of the sundering of the galaxy into Imperium Sanctus and Imperium Nihilus, Mankind fighting with their new toys, Daemon Primarchs returning, Necrons reawakening en masse, Deldar scooping up isolated worlds like their half off candies, etc should be shown....greater care and in more detail. They realized that they were heading for the cliff in their eagerness and pumped the brakes. Goes to show even corporate boards can suffer New Toy Syndrome.
Engineer here, a rezistor works by acting as an enviorment ment for the conversion of electrical energy (electricity) into thermal energy (heat). As the electrons run acros the rezistor, they hit its component atoms that later vibrate and thus heat arises. That is why it has a lower tension at the exit, diference in tension means loss of electric energy.
Imagine if the Xenos made something that may revive the God Emperor, that if they can figure it out they can bring their God back from his skeleton cosplay. They would either have to destroy it, or somehow convince themselves that the heretical device was indeed human, and the Xenos just painted it to hide it from Them. Also every time they take something out about it to study, they pray for each piece.
The lack of knowledge of how something functions is their biggest weakness and strength, if for example the Tau were to capture and interrogate a tech priest about how warp engines on starship work, the tech priest couldn't tell them, he'd eventually tell them he has to burn incense and rub holy oils onto a button before 30 prayers to appease the machine spirit within, then 500 other tech priests press their subsequent sequence of buttons and reciting prayers.
If you ask me, then it's Oscar worthy that you imply so much humor in something as dark and Grimm as wh40k I had to laugh so hard on some of your lines, thank you. If they ever do a new movie about 40k, they should hire you, would be hilarious.
Except the rituals actually do have purpose at times. The machine spirit isn’t just nonsense as one would expect at first. Imperial tech is based upon and in many cases is ancient pre imperial technology from the dark age of technology where true AI has been fractured and split into shards or separate components and reintegrated into current tech giving many machines a shadow or ghost of its own intelligence.
is it possible that the warp-ish energies emanated during the ritualistic worship the TechPriests perform in order to understand a new thing inadvertently infuse that thing with a Machine-Spirit and thus transform that thing of normal pure tech into an item of Spirit-Tech thus making any normal scientific investigation of that item moot. since that spirit item is now governed by warp laws and not by mundane laws of physics??
To understand the grimderp that is the mechanicus and STCs, imagine the entire IKEA instruction catalogue, separated into letter-sized pages and scanned into a heavily fragmented RAID database. With 1 or more drives missing. And an "engineering community" that treats every corrupted image file as if they were chunks of the Dead Sea Scrolls or the Nag Hamadi Library [collections of highly fragmented early Christian scripture, some of non-canonical texts]. And they work for the Vatican. And they only can read English.
I believe you made your point very concisely. Just because you achieve the same results from reverse engineering but you don't actually achieve the knowledge of how you did what you did. Good video mate. You got intrested in warhammer.
you just know that there is a wall in the mechanicus hold somewhere, with a bunch of holes side by side," the wall of the found lamentations" where the inquisitors, or whoever finds something to give to the machanicus goes to to bang their skulls against said wall, after dealing with all this crap.
This is too damn funny. Now I imagine every Mechanicus enclave has a special "lamentation wall" for Imperium officials who get sick and tired of Mechanicus bullshit.
Trying to remember a Strategy game Arch played where it was very detailed to the point of types of missiles and such. The game was set in modern times and you control units like aircraft and ship. Anyone has any idea?
Technician from M3: "Any science or technology sufficiently advanced is indistinguishable from magic..." Tech Priest: "No! ALL SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY IS MAGIC!!!!"
I say we put the technician in the holy furnace, perform the sacred ritual of filling it with oil and clicking the sacred start button, and let the machine spirit within decide if this heretic should live.
What ppl need to understand tho is that the mechanicus works with unbelievably complex technologies that were developed using advanced ai that they don't have access to. So realistically any 21st century top of the shelf technology would be basically the most basic stuff for them
How does the mechanichus reproduce? I get that the cult itself recruits, but do adeptus biologa just keep stockpiles of gamete stores like with the astartes and then utilize artifical wombs like the death korps of krieg?
I get that a Primarch coming back is going to cause the imperium to move forward. The way they justified the creation was that it was started before Papa Smurf went night night, and cawl’s been doing it for a LONG time. But they should have started at least at Grey knight levels of rarity. Guiliman’s own custodies, and through the Indomitus crusade, slowly, and I mean SLOWLY proliferate them into the other legions/chapters. They did it WAY to quickly
Had the same crap in battletech where they tried to pretend that all lost tech could be regained in a few decades and all units suddenly were filled with new mechs rather than a slow and gradual transition... Same again with traveller rpg... the wkr burnt his universe down and now instead of tl15 we have uber AI etc... disentigrators popping up everywhere and suchlike.. A common fault when the creater of a system gets bored and let's some gits have access to it...
TBH the reason for such a fast pace of rediscovering lostech (as well as reverse engineer Clan Tech), is mostly due to the desperate fighting aginest the clans during the Clan Invasion era, to which the good telephone company Comstar managed to halt temporarily at Tukayyid in 3052. Its kind like the difference between the German tiger tank and the M4 Sherman, do you want to wait a long time for very good stuff to be made, or quickly produce stuff in vast quantity's that just good enough to use.
@mechrob1 In the original novels.. have read them all of course.. house marik produces refit kits.. the expense of which will take many years to cover.. there are also newer often flawed anti clan designs rushed onto some form of deployment... However skip on a few years and a few books and rather than mostly refitted mechs (many poorly refitted) plus some new machines... we have one third and rising of new often mint battlemechs.. not helped by the unseen issues that almost ditched the Marauder etc.... the sheer impossibility of creating so many new units from a limited number of sources (I have reviewed the entire period on an almost individual mech tank asf dropshIp jumpship etc scale) makes this truely rubbish and what's worse.. it doesent have to be.. some authors used common sense and researched whilst others just used all the new stuff.. the old bigger is better bs... a few authors even had no understanding of the game verse whatsoever and wrote dribble that was more like arcade pish... Xl engines.. Yes everyone will have these .. you surely would prefer àn Xl rifleman to. You know.. just sticking a gauss weapon on a normal atlas... and so on and so forth... the original battletech was about logistics (discounting gay death legion) and looking at the house actions... yet this is totally ignored in later material... I have looked online and the nazi party (clan woopsy) is actually able to (in new germanic format not accepted by most) take terra... The clans had no chance of victory.. they had almost no manufacturing base for warships.. yet woopsie squad starts writing and bobs your pocket warship despite a dropship actually costing about 60 percent of a warship.... (I did the full financial element of logistics as well) hey wob will beat everyone up.. they are outnumbered over 2000 to one with no reserves worth speaking of but throw in a lola 1 and suddenly it's able to win win win.. nuke everyone.. wooha fire sale man... as if everyone leaves their capital planets without constant BARCAP .. etc etc... agents everywhere man.. which is actually impossible as they would be easily detected and removed ... hack your systems man.. no also not possible.... unlimited resources man.. no no you don't. .. marik hidden fleet... just take it over Mr marik won't have any marines or ultra loyal people manning those ... shoot his kids yup a house lord won't have 3 mattmech regiments and 30 infantry regiments of elite ultra loyal troops plus spec ops etc protecting his ass.. you can just turn up and start shooting.. wobwob. .. Prince Victor steiner davion... written as a hero.. though ofter wrongly written by authors borrowing the character .. then rewritten as a pillock .... Binding force was real cool.. liked that style and all... with detail on the machines and respect for the actual logistics.. Then another author just goes woohaa let's roll some rcts. . Your mech regiment destroyed a force with 300 percent of its power and in fortified positions... you took light damage... err nooooo Catherine (kat) steineroony I will murder thousands of people and started with our mum... new Victor character.. I can't deal with this I was only brought up by the best tactician house lord.. I will ignore this situation and go away for a bit so my sis can hand over my lands to another sis. Err.. that's not how regency works.. you wouldn't have given those powers over.. I know kat murdered mum.. I'm going to not go public and just play with my mecho rather than directing her immediate liquidation and appointing Kellman to run that side of things.. woohee. .. So nope I don't think they covered it at all well.. logistics were impossible.. body politic was just trashed... all the good work or Stackpole etc was sht on from a height...
Will Arch ever do a video on "Machine Spirits"? Like,are they rudimentary AI? Or something else? I personally think they're basic AI but that's just me
@@john7143 I can see that. I always assumed they were on the level of some AI we have today; they aren't sentient yet can have pre-programmed personalities and behaviours
I kinda think it is very murky concept. It is both AI and something warpy... Enough imperial citizens and Mechanicus believe such concept exist so it does exist. Or maybe it could also be complex software or UI running.
The Mechanicus are probably the biggest hypocrites in 40k (Besides the Eldar and tau). They're cool and all, but their own counter productive and even self-invalidating logic is enough to drive me crazy.
Go watch videos of Afghanistan people rebuilding parts that we in the modern world would have long since thrown away. That will give you an idea of what the mechanicus is doing. They know this thing does that thing. But they don't have fundamental understanding of what is actually doing the thing they are trying to make it do. They just know cable A makes motor B go zoom zoom. Despite that they are very creative.
If someone made a game with story,quests and mechanics like Skyrim and exploring like no man's sky and set it in 40k universe, that would in my opinion be the best game in the last 20 years.
Now this raises the question about individuals like the emperor or the primarchs, like vulkan ferrus Manus. Individuals we know as investors and fabricators, did they know how things really work or do they also assume the magic squiggles and the fancy smoke is what makes the engine go vroom??
"Forget the power of technology and science, for so much has been forgotten, never to be re-learned. Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for in the grim dark future there is only war."
This quote alone should be enough to prevent the existence of the Primaris and Cawl in the lore.
It SHOULD. But after 30+ years most companies are going to run out of ways to package the same exact thing and get you to buy more. So at that point its a "Fuck it, Uber Super Soldiers that are bigger, tougher and have better guns then our already Super Soldiers". A company that LOVED their IP and setting would be content with selling enough old stuff to the newer players to print the same models for all eternity. GW and the like have to see bigger and bigger profits year over year so fuck the fluff here is stuff that makes ZERO sense according to fluff. AKA Where were these Skorpekh and Ophydian Destroyers the last 100 years?? All Necron designs are MILLIONS of years old but they only exist in game now??
Only TWO groups make sense for this, well maybe four now that I think of it. Tau, they are young and up and coming and refining their tech not just maintaining it so makes sense. Orks, they just cobble together whatever the fuck they want so yeah. Daemons, well they are LITERAL coalescent energy so they just think a new form and it exists. Tyranids, they are a 100% Biomechanical species so they will constantly make new forms. All Imperial factions, Marines, Sisters, Knights, Guard, Custodes are a stagnant empire. Same for Traitor Marines that should all be wearing MKV or at most MKVI power armor. Eldar and Dark Eldar are both a dieing decaying race so yeah nothing new really being made. Necrons went to sleep over 50 MILLION years ago and all of their race that existed then is all there ever will be of their race.
Bottom line 4 out of the 20+ some odd groups would have legitimate, in cannon, reasons to get new models/units as their fluff fits new stuff coming up. Everyone else would be stuck with what they have always had and thats it.
@@memnarch129 or we can say 'the necrons had tech that was not issued to all dynasties. And as some have awoken early, there has been some well disguised THIEVERY, reprogramming, and repainting stolen stuff.' Trazyn has some good points sometimes
As for primaris suddenly appearing, it's kind of logical: it took The Emperor a few hundreds of years of bribes, threats, and a lot of blackmail to get the tools to build the tools that build the tools needed for firstborn Astartes geneseed. His top gene smith goes bonkers, so the first version of geneseed made from primarch DNA has to be enough for now. Will iterate later. Then he becomes psychic brocolli, and one of his super genius sons is too stupid to continue. So he writes a genius/madman a blank check and waves him on his way. Said madman has to spend years and years repeating the bribe, threat, blackmail process to make the tools. But slower. Not being a golden giant with a +5000 Charisma modifier with double advantage on Persuade and Intimidate tends to slow the process
@@memnarch129 GW could have sold us new marines with a simple rescale of their brand due to an evolution in the modeling capabilities, or they can simply build new models for their super hold brands like eldars and others that recieve 0 love for so long.
the truth is that GW didn't simply wanted to make SM owner buy a new army, they want their product to blend in more with other standard of sify so that they can sell their product to the "broader audiance" the normies, the npc
I fucking agree.
@@bliblivion the NPC? Are you listening to yourself, grow up
Here's something to ponder. It's university-level engineers that calculate precisely from general physical laws. I once had a higher-level vocational engineering student as my flatmate. He explained the difference simply by asking me how I would figure out how much electric capacity I would put in a server room. I would start calculating the power consumption of servers I plan to install there and how many of those I could fit. He just told me, that he just multiplies the floor area with a constant that he has learned in a school. They don't operate from the perspective of natural laws but from the perspective of simpler rules, which is a lot faster to utilize and follow those rules. I would imagine that people who maintained the machines on mars were VOCATIONAL people and the university level thinking was not required for those tasks. And trying to innovate a better way would be too risky. So when people who would invent from physics rules are lost but people who religiously follow a way simpler set of rules with a game of the broken telephone we eventually get mechanicum.
The Admech is also the canonical descendants of the Transhumanist movement. FM-2030 is considered an ancient sage or saint.
Source: Gods of Mars series
perhaps
@@korstmahler They also see floppy discs as sacred relics or so I've heard.
Yes, the Enginseer is the backbone of the Mechanicus. They are custodians that perform maintenance duties on holy machines: that is the origin of the Martian cult. The practical maintenance guys survived and were the only ones who knew how to keep the machines running and they built a religion around hoarding that knowledge and keeping it from the uninitiated.
Plus a certain Metal Shod Dragon on Mars whispering into their dreams might have something to do with their intractability.
You know, Cawl sounds like he could be a great character. A person who lives for thousands of years trying to respark the dead light of invention in a decaying Imperium. The main problem is he popped up overnight storywise. If he had been a in multiple novels for years trying to achieve his goals, I think he would actually be looked upon a bit better.
I actually like Cawl but I do agree. Although a White Dwarf issue did actually foreshadow Primaris Marines about a decade ago
If he's 10k years old, it's really strange that he was hiding under the table all this time just to emerge with unlimited quantities of NuMarines, complete with wargear and vehicles. He wouldn't have been half as irritating and marysue-ish if we could trace the path that led him to this grand finale throughout the dozens of centuries.
I kind of hope he's like some unwitting avatar of Tzeench and that all the stuff he's making ends up causing another Great Heresy, which would be a neat set up for going into the 42nd millennium.
Having cawl be a joke for decades and then actually succeed
@@BeKindToBirds We already have Failbaddon.
As a machinist, I can inform you we are exactly the loss of one book ( the machinist hand book, seriously it's our Bible) from ending up just like this. Being unable to reproduce a slightly unusual screw unless we already have stockpile we make all the time.
Ever wonder how the first screw thread was made? So glad my NL2000 can just turn them out in batches 😆
That's scary to think
Well....not exactly. We still have millions of tap and die sets out there. And being a manual tool, its not THAT complicated to make. But, you're going to have a greatly diminished production output, but, its not impossible to make them without machine tools. Just slower and more difficult. Smiths were making them before the industrial revolution.
I know that's hard for a lot of people to accept, but, go look up the history of technology. You'll find a lot of people made some rather complicated and precise machinery without the resort of machine tools because they didn't exist yet.
@@Wastelandman7000 His statement is still true, though. Because just making a screw isn't good enough, you have to match the specific measurements, too.
Most products of machine tools require that exact machine tool to reproduce them.
@@rottenmeat5934 The main issue is that making just one screw or bolt or whatever component isn't the issue, you can have an apprentice working with a file and a rod of metal and eventually have a screw according specification. What you want is the capability of mass production with specific tolerances, so you need more than the manual, you need the machinery it's based on. The machinist handbook is a great reference, but if there is no lathe or even no proper measuring devices, you're still guessing on what to do, even more so when you want to automate things.
I find it funny that 40K actually explains the lack of reverse engineering while comics have been simply saying "only a super genius was smart enough to make this" or a super soldier serum from the WW2 not being replicated easily because reasons. At least the Cog Boys have an excuse for this, and an actually interesting one at that. The idea of not understanding science itself, and the things your playing with are so advanced that even if you did get the scientific basics they would be little help, is not something you see often to say the least.
Yeah, it always bugged me that they never try to make more Captain Americas, or have Tony Stark hand over his suit designs. 40K actually has some interesting explanations for some of the crazy stuff that happens.
@@robertnelson9599 You can't (shouldn't) have good guys like tony stark and batman that claim to want to help people, and yet have the setting take place in a seemingly similar earth as our own. These "heroes" greedily horde their technology away from mankind. Their heroics are cheapened when you consider how much better they could serve humanity by advancing humanities technological prowess.
Iron man's "energy generation" technology being an obvious one...
I don't know, sounds like the 40k univererse has tism.
@@robertnelson9599 or why batman just punches people.
That’s because he made a vow not to kill, even when it would be better to do so.
Ah yes, the pray-to-the-toaster strategy of reverse engineering
I love the cogboys
Kind of hard to reverse engineer when you think your smart phone runs off of a spirit.
It’s a lot more complicated than just prayer. A lot of the chants the Mechanicus use are actually code and instructions for their machines. Heck one of them is literally a song on how to keep your lasgun in working order. After all, what’s the easiest way to pass on knowledge? Through rhymes and songs. Even some biblical passages have a sort of “tune” to them.
@@robertnelson9599 When there are many cases in the setting of that LITERALLY BEING THE CASE? Its not as silly as it sounds if its the actual truth. A shocking amount of the Imperium's tech base seems to have at least some form of rudimentary AI built in, and the more advanced pieces of tech like Titans and starships and such seem to ones that are far more advanced, although albeit not fully sapient seemingly.
@@papapalps2415 i personally theorize that Machine Spirits are more than just semi sapient AIs and possibly closer to actual fragments of what were once fully conscious humans whos minds were fully digitized to pilot their Titians and other vehicles more effectively to combat the Men of Iron when they went coo coo for coco puffs during the cybernetic revolt.
I use the castigator titian as my evidence for this theory seeing as not only was that titian far far more advanced than Imperial Titians it was more importantly a fully sapient AI construct.
This leads me to believe that All Imperial Titians originate from DAoT / Cybernetic Revolt era men of iron warframes that were still being assembled at their factories ...... basically that the Men of Iron them selves ranged in size from at least around human infantry sized units to units as large as the castigator titian possibly even larger .... up to and including starship scales as well.
Realistically DAoT humans only hope to even the odds against a widespread "possibly chaos scrap code induced" AI revolt like that would be to simply not install any AI on their titian warframes yet to be built or completed for example and substitute the AI with a digitized human mind or minds along with a physical pilot and or pilots using an adapted Knights mind impulse unit to ad hock modify what was once a fully automated unit into one crewed by humans and whose AI is substituted by a digitized human mind and or minds.
it explains why imperial titians have so many variants that broadly range in size as they were not merely originally copied from titians and that titians themselves ARE in essence repurposed men of iron warframes used by DAoT humans during the cybernetic revolt ....... or at the very least a copy of a copy of a copy based on said original models of that era.
@@Phenixtri I wouldn't be overly surprised if that was the case. The Imperium in of itself skirts the lines of AI a lot more than people tend to believe or it tells itself, for that matter. It just gets around the 'artifical' part by using organic parts instead (like, say, human brains), bit it ultimately amounts to much the same thing. I can very easily see DAoT humanity doing the same 'I'm not touching you! I'm not touching you!' routine as well.
"The D is very devastating." This is why I watch you Arch. Never change.
I actually missed that one, thanks!
I've heard that there's actually a lot of proper maintenance procedures in the Mechanicus prayers. Something like "turn the knob a quarter turn to the left before opening the panel."
There are engineering practices in the Mechanicus, they are just bogged down by ritual and dogma.
Yup indeed. The random prayers they have to recite are full of nonsense, but also contain instructions for whatever maintenance the prayer is related to. And since the mechanicum know these prayers by heart, they effectively know their instructions perfectly
In a random novel, there was mention of the ceremonial sharp whack to the casing partway through the awakening ritual (switching on)
@@chrismorel8613, yes it was also a tech-priest ability in the tabletop game Only War. It was called the Ceremony of the Knock e.g. percussive maintenance.
@@chrismorel8613 that was a Cain book . I laughed out loud at thar bit .
"Oh blessed Omnisiah, please grant my occuceptors the ability to properly identify this sacred screw"
"Thank you blessed Omnisiah, I shall now begin the litany of #2 screw removal, then we can begin."
"First thou shalt collect thine holy bit, and it's size shall be #2. Size #1 shall be too small and size #3 shall not fit, so #2 shall be the bit - #5 being right out, but #2 being the right size shall be chosen".....
Solid Monty Python reference
The year is 60000.
Guiliman still does his thing, chaos is chaosing, the Tyranids stopped at a drive through and are stuck there.
On Mars the techpriest managed to reverse engineer a Tau plasma rifle, the Tau are extinct for the past 10000 years.
Extinction because of the grater good.
The sister's of battle created an order to maintain the order of the order that maintains the orders.
@j cee diversity hires are heretical.
All those not appropriately faithful to the emperor shall be educated or purged!
Ultramarines are still the Greatest space marine chapter to ever exist.
@@nobleman9393 And still proudly wear a toilet seat as their insignia.
And Trazyn added to his collection An Ork who doesn't want to fight, A Kriegsman who wants to be immortal, A Berzerker who is a Sniper, A Felinid Sister of Battle and the Nicest Night Lord to ever live.
To be fair the ork actually reverse engineer alot, they just call it lootin
No no, Orks are good green boys, they engage in recycling.
One of the best products of Ork reverse engineering in my opinion is Da Rippa, an Ogryn gun modified to use plasma.
Repeat: An Ork. Made a plasma weapon in rapid fire. Out of a fully automatic shotgun.
@@omegawilliam95s36 I love Orks I swear to the Emperor but they scare me sometimes.
Given the virulence of Chaos, I can understand that the ridiculous degrees of precaution the Mechanicus takes in their efforts are fully warranted.
Naw, the “everyone in the universe is stupid but me,” syndrome was strong in the lore fifteen years ago.
Girliman is just the logical end result.
They couldn’t move the narrative forward without a fedora redeemer.
"Turns out that screw that was slightly different was not because it was supposed to go in another hole but because it was possessed by a demon and now, so is our ship.." -some poor Adept
Its Chaos + A.I.
They are worried about hidden mundane A.I's, Viruses and Malware in every circuit they find in addition to demons. :P
@@BobMcBobJr The encrypted data contains demonic code, now Tzeentch possessed our wetware. HELP.
It is all fun and games until the new titan gets possessed by daemons and starts rampaging through the foundry.
One of the interesting thing about ritualization - It introduces controlled timing.
Imagine of a Spring has to be tightened to a specific Torque, but you can't even begin to fathom how to teach the person doing that task how to calculate such things. You can teach them how to chant though, and how to make precise movements along side those chants, to create a ritual. As long as they follow the timing introduced by the ritual, making the strokes with their tools in the exact same methods each time... should get that Torque just right.
Pretty much, yeah. "Plug the red cable in, recite this prayer at this speed, when done, proceed onto the blue cable and repeat." Also serves as an excellent form of memorization.
Or you build a mindless machine to do menial tasks for you with the exact same precision every time, without needing it to learn chanting and at a much higher speed and precision than a human could do 24/7/365.
@@Schnittertm1 "Skitarii would like to know your location, tech heretic." Joking aside there's the problem, eventually if the machine does the work what happens if it fails or the files corrupt? Normally you'll back ups or someone who knows how to do it but that's what humanity lost in 40k, without the STCs they had no way to know how to build the hyper advanced technology except the few printed out copies or barely functional remaining pieces.
@@Schnittertm1 Servitors are used for this exact purpose. They count as human-enough by Mechanicus standard to perform relatively simple rites of maintenance and repair, once properly "assembled" and blessed.
@@Schnittertm1 servitors exist and do what you said. However in the 40k setting there are 95 bajillion humans , so a fully functioning servitor would probably be worth a LOT more than a mere civilian. So i don't think the higher-up people in 40k really care about individual humans who might have to do tasks wich might have been easily done by machines , but it's the other way around here. Why waste a machine when you have zogillions of humans who could do the same task with almost no cost at all.
Arches explanation of how electricity works is only slightly better than the techpiests.
in all likelyhood, these analogy is what the mechanicum actually believes. Once a resistor deviates from the 'fluid in a pipe'-model, say a NTC-resistor, they are at a loss, as they don't understand the actual physiscs
@@Skaldewolf Yeah, and Arch doesn't understand the actual physics either. You're also telling me that techpriests build themselves out into mechanical monstrosities without understanding basic electrical systems?
You're telling me that techpriests maintain dark age tech while being incompetents?
Dude, that takes more talent than just building a new one. It's ridiculous.
Religious doctrine is law, not science. It's a pretty simple walk toward just restricting technology to what has been "blessed by the Omnissiah," to force innovation within regularly debated grounds, but that would make them too reasonable.
It's a shame that GW can't even hold the line that they're ignorant, either, because all of the Mechanicus has some exotic super weapon to pull out of their bum at all times.
And that’s how those electro-Tech Priests were born.
My favorite part was Arch explaining electricity is the movement of electrons... into the "water in a pipe" theory... into explaining a resistor while describing an inductor.
Or forgetting what a screw driver, or wrench is called.
I always thought the reason they struggle with recreating Dark Age technology was just its so comically advanced. I can understand why they’d be uneasy about messing around with such things.
I remember reading about a gun that fired nanobots that eat people. The Mechanicus understands the concept just fine, but they cannot study the nanobots because they devour everything they touch.
That’s my headcannon for it. It’s not that the Mechanicus can’t innovate, or understand tech, or reverse engineer some xeno tech, but it’s the truly advance almost magical stuff they don’t mess with.
It’s like asking medieval scholars and engineers ( who were a lot smarter then people think) to build you a nuclear reactor or nanobots.
They might understand the base concept, what it is, but they wouldn’t even know where to start on making their own. The science behind said tech is beyond what they have.
@@bc9402 Yeah, the STCs probably messed things up. There's no need to understand the process to use the factory.
It's also quite possible to be able to make something advanced, but not know how to improve on it without putting everything in jeopardy. It's even worse if some tech in tooling gets lost to history.
Like, people wondered a long time on how the pyramid were built. Just because the techniques used were lost to history.
Maintaining currently owned machines is a lot more easy than making a copy or improving on it.
Chaos is probably another factor here. If enough people think that a machine cannot be understood, there's a chance that no one will be able to understand it. Even if it is simple.
The mechanicus believes that it's impossible, so it becomes impossible. To some extent.
People from 1940s couldn't comprehend todays tech. It would take them dozens of years to reverse engnieer an MBT or a Fighter Jet. Since they don't understand what is a Thermal Camera or an AESA radar or network based warfare. Sure they understand that jets sends pictures and data,real time each other to shoot from an unexpected angle. But to how they do it,they would have absolutely no clue.
There may or may not also be a certain C'tan that's fucking with them, probably buried deep within Mars.
There's an important factor outside the religious one to remember too, a lot of Forge Worlds keep, for lack of a better term, proprietary secrets on the various pieces of tech. Take Forgeworld Ryza for example, masters of plasma, both weaponry and power generation, of course they wouldn't do anything so bold as say withhold information from Mars, but they might leave out a couple components here or maybe a few little details about specific production and refining processes for the materials used in cooling that makes their plasma generators significantly more efficient than what Mars or one of the other Forgeworlds has available. Sure it would be beneficial to the Imperium as a whole for everyone to know but that could jeopardize Ryza's position and clout if suddenly everyone can do what they do. Besides how exactly would they communicate this? You really gonna telepathically signal the complex details through some telepathica adept and hope nothing gets lost in translation?
I get the feeling a good number of the higher-ups in the Mechanicus are like the Covenant Prophets in Halo, resting their comfy arses in the nearest hover chair because nobody is gonna know how the hyper advanced battleship works without them, unless you want to have a chat with the explosive laden tech support squids.
The problems of technology in the Imperium in a nutshell: Fucking Politics
@@ObsidiaBlack1 Realism at work, humanity has not changed in what ever tens of thousands of years at all.
Reverse engineering is painfully hard. Imagine a tank ,its armor is somekind of admantium alloy or somekind of advanced sytnthetic adamantium,not pure adamantium or plasteel,or ceramite like the Imperium uses metal. They know its exact compostion but have no idea how to reproduce it.They mess up constantly:metal becomes brittle,too weak,too soft or too expensive. They do not have the facilites,maybe even a machinery to reproduce something from 10000 years ago. They have to build new factories,teardown old ones(technoheresy!) on tier one forge wolds just to produce armor samples. While the Imperial Warmachine constantly screams for weapons,the Inquistion constantly harass them or other rival forgeworlds. Technology in the Imperium reminds me like it was in the late Soviet Union:soviet scientists had wonderful ideas,but the industry simply couldn't keep up with them. The prototypes were more advanced than their serial produced models that came after them. Same with the Imperium techpriest have wonderful tools and have awesome knowledge,but they are not the majority. The majority is some noname PDF trooper who can hardly read and with the life expentancy of 48 hours in case of a major invasion. They need cheap weapons and quickly. Not volkite or plasma weapons.
In reality its pretty easy.
@@robby7025 Sure,sure Aztecs started to copy spanish steel and gunpowder really quickly,or Chienese and Japanese instanly rose on par with the West technologically. Do not judge from WWII or Cold war were both sides were roughly on par with technology. Imperium is thousands of years behind the Golden Age of Man. In every aspect.
@@robby7025 It is easy if you are working at a similar level of knowledge. But actually going from barely understanding the function of some of those golden age devices to actually producing them is completely different. Heck some of them even after 10k years in use the Mechanicum still barely has the first clue how they work as so much has been lost. To put in perspective 40k as we see it is essentially overall maybe 5 to 6 centuries ahead of us right now if you exclude warp stuff. Bolters? All the tech exists right now it just is not viable right now. Power armor? Other then the fusion backpack we could reproduce it might not be as good since we lack the same materials but we could. So on and so forth. I am being generous there mind you. While golden age tech they are trying to understand is far ahead of that. Imagine 10k years of unimpeded technical and scientific development assisted at least in part by strong type AI. There were entirely disciplines of science lost. So the Mechanicum is not working at a similar tech base in many regards they have a technical knowledge level below our own that is how badly they have regressed.
To put in perspective how absurd golden age humanity was the only faction we see that objectively had better TECH was the Necrons and even then it is debatable at times. The Eldar relied on their powers and the warp hence why I don't put them also at golden age level. The golden age literally had machines that broke the conservation of energy. Literally changing physical matter into raw data actually even worse then that literally converting space time itself into data. That is how absurd the golden age was.
fkn well put, dude, lets go
Also thing to note is that lets take for instance modern day and F22 raptor. Yes we have plans for them and least partially all documentation on processes how to make the parts, but those assembly lines were already taken apart, machinery sold or moved to other assembly lines, so it would be just as expensive to rebuild assembly lines and start producing F22's than develop more modern fighter plane.... if you ignore F35 disaster/peace of shit that is. With caveat that new plane has most modern tech available and F22 is still older tech. Its amazing plane that is more than a match to anything made today, but it starts to get old design. Ou and there is possibility if just one plane is lost due crash, captured or anything like that, that potential enemies are gaining knowledge of the high level military secrets. Older the design is, more chances enemy has to gain knowledge about the aircraft. This is why despite being the best air superiority fighter in the world the wont be any more F22's that are made. Existing ones will serve long as their airframes have hours and then cannabilized for parts to keep other planes operational
Imperium: Scientific progress is a dead art.
Tau: Scientific progress is the forge of survival.
Orks: Science iz dakka.
One of these is the most successful race of 40k.
The orks ?
The Orks have it figured out
Ork bois
if we are going by a strictly evolutionary definition of success, it's the orks by far. long lived, far reaching, incredibly reproductive, and extremely hardy and virulent. but then the tyranids might be beyond number from the outside, and thus even more successful. and their technology is: "SKREEE SKREE SKREEEE!"
Necrons: lol,we don't need to progress anymore in science
what would've been more interesting is if Cawl ended up vindicating his contractors by creating a few abominations, catastrophes, and longterm complications as a result of his experiments and creations
Like perhaps unleashing a C'tan Shard or several upon the galaxy? After actively betraying it and then letting it out of it's prison into regular space?
Yeah he did that. Cawl's also got a bunch of Necron tech stuck in his head, to the point where his eyes turn green (and he also can control Necron Scarabs.)
Arch likes to forget things sometimes to make his point more dramatic. Today he seems particularly choleric.
I’m waiting for that boot to fall… But that would require GW to be competent.
Well the Deathwatch managed to field Masking Screen devices that largely mimic Stealth Suit capabilities within a few Decades of the Damocles Gulf Crusade with some flaws here and there.
Plus supposedly the most common type of Imperial EMP grenades are basically copies of TAU designs.
Ohohoho I can only imagine how hard the Tau must have shit in their Battle Suit pants when they realized there are invisible giants in power armor afoot.
Combine that stealth system with the nigh-invisible Raven Guard and you’d have a very potent force.
I bet the Inquisition “borrows” a lot of the more pragmatic and open-minded tech-priests.
Probably the most innovation in the Imperium comes from Inquisition and the Astartes Tech Marines.
And you can wear a Chameleon adaptive camo Cloak plus a noise canceling "Stummer" generator with it at the same time or at least the Deathwatch core rule book plus it's errata sheet don't say you can't use them together...
I imagine it is like finding a 3D printer that makes legos and then assembles them into other 3D printers, which is fine until you run out of plastic and it starts to use whatever is on hand.
Biomass and scrap metal
A concept also known as a clanking replicator.
STC: Insufficient amount of power Increase it by 59%
Tech-Priest: 59 Litanies are needed.
And then it actually works
That has probably happened a lot to the Tech-priests.
"See all that stuff in there, Homer? That's why your robot never worked." - The Simpsons
The Imperium - technology without science (without understanding WHY anything works). Not as weird as it sounds - as few people before the Ancient Greeks were interested in "why" questions (scientific laws), if doing X produced something useful people did X (without bothering their heads about "why" - it was just "the Gods" or "the spirits", or whatever).
They also show this the The Foundation series by Isaac Asimov. One book has people from a technologically advanced society travel to a world where electricity only exists because of priests that run the power plant. The difference in understanding is fascinating.
@C J B if they had instructions and training they certainly could. Might not know the reasons behind what they do. It’s a similar situation to the Chinese Room where through a set of very thorough instructions a question asked in chinese can be answered in chinese with no one in the room knowing any chinese.
Not quite true, people were always interested in *why*, but they never had the knowledge or foundation to truly examine those questions.
While it is certainly true that the Ancient Greeks formalised the Scientific Method (though I do not believe for a minute they INVENTED it) they still came up with some seriously odd ideas that were well off track using those very principles because the technology required to measure much of what they were trying to observe simply did not exist.
The Ancient Greeks for example were the ones who came up with the idea of Spontaneous Generation to explain how flies reproduced, and this was more or less accepted for centuries because they could not see the eggs with the unaided eye. Of course, Spontaneous Generation was actually disproven WITHOUT the requirement of microscopes, but that is bye the bye.
Many Theories we look back on seem odd or ridiculous now, but we have to remember that at the time those people often did not have the equipment to measure what they were trying to observe, or the base of knowledge upon which to build their Hypothesis. Take the idea that disease was caused by bad smells, of course, it is not, we know it is Pathogens of various kinds, however those pathogens often proliferated in unhygienic, smelly conditions. You get rid of the bad smells by introducing say a Roman Style plumbing and sewage system and you get rid of the things that cause both the bad smell and the proliferation of the pathogens. Problem is until the invention of the microscope only ONE of those things could be detected..... So you begin to understand WHY some of those Theories held up for so long..... They could not detect the Bacteria or Single Celled animals causing diseases, let alone Viruses, but they COULD detect the bad smell. You see?
How tech works by faction...
Imperium: Prayer
Tau: Science
Tyranids: Biology
Eldar: Magic
Orks: Magic
Chaos: Magic and Prayer
Necrons: Literal Dead Gods
I find it incredibly fascinating that the mechanicus does everything it does on "how does the shaman make the lightning?" logic.
They're like if a cargo cult found the ruins of America and started slowly learning how to reproduce the machines.
The more confusing part of this is that this is WH40K, where fervent vbelief and ritual can actually bend reality. Sometimes, it will work because they believe the oils are in deed sacred and that applying it will make the cogs spin.
11:30 "The D is fine, and a blessed part of the omnissiahs greater scheme"
-Arch 2022
Finally some Mechanicus lore... I wish Arch would do more of it :) Excellent job!
You got to give the mechanicus more credit. They probably are great engineers, but the tech they work with is just so advanced that its beyond their comprehension. For all we know the prayers are just instructions that they memorized, but in a language they don't understand. Try assembling a complex machine with instructions in the wrong language, its very frustrating and you start praying for it to work after several days.
The way i see it, reverse engeneering in 40 k is like handing a medieval smith a car to reverse engeneer. He cant create a battery or gasoline or motoroil or tyres, even if he managed to forge a new engine , he would not be able to build a battery (doesnt understand that acid+led +wires+ spark plug = electricity+spark), he could , maybe figure out oil, or go withouth proper tyres , but fuel would be difficult.
Find some way to send 2 pieces of info with the car.. an arrow pointing to oil saying dead dragon soup and one to the fuel with exploding dragons go here! Lol
Harry Turtledove wrote a book called The Guns of the South, in which time traveling Afrikaners supplied AKs to the Confederacy. The part where the Tredegar arsenal tried to reproduce the AK and its ammo was very interesting, even if the book was pure fantasy.
"The D is VERY devastating!" 11:24
--- Arch 2022
He left that little gem in there on purpose, you can hear it in his voice
Tau tech is pretty 'basic' in comparison to the Imperium's finest, they just know how it works and how to use it sensibly.
There are even instances where the orks has better stuff than the Tau, like actually having Titans and warp travel
I await the vid where Arch talks about the soon to be released Squats. Or rather the League of Voltan.
Honestly, I don't feel Primarus marines were introduced for plot purposes. I think GW just wanted all space marine players to have to buy all their models again.
Well that does sound like GW to me.
Didn't the Imperium actually NEED primaris marines after Cadia stood and bussed a big one accross the galaxy? So many chapters with only a couple squad members surviving the endless wars etc.
@@OljeiKhan For some reason it forgot my response -.-
Anyway the imperium did probably need the primarus after the fall of cadia. However the introduction of them just felt out of place lore wise. It's a galaxy where the imperium is too large for them to defend. They're troops and resources are under attack from all sides and they are stretched to their absolute limit. Yet Caul comes out of nowhere with a shit ton of new and better space marines. Like how did you manage to scrounge all this together? We could have used it sooner.
Another youtuber explained it better but the idea was the entire imperium is falling apart. It's a glorious last stand to keep things going just a little bit longer and someone comes out of nowhere with a shit ton of reinforcements. Making their sacrifices seem meaningless now.
The Mechanicus just takes the time-honored method of yelling at things that don't work to its logical conclusion.
I find a machine. Not sure how it works. I mess around with it, and it still doesn't work. So I begin to utter the litany of four-lettered oaths while figuring it out. I begin to invoke the many insults of one's mother and person, and the machine begins to work. As it sputters to life and makes horrendous noise, I continue to recite the litany until the noise becomes tolerable.
@@DISTurbedwaffle918
You just described the life of a mechanic. Or CNC machine operator. I swear to Omnissiah, those pieces of fiendish technology can stop working because they have bad humour. And than start working again for shit and giggles once you tried EVERY FUCKING THING!
@@kronos661
Sometimes it just needs a little verbal abuse.
@@DISTurbedwaffle918
Or if that won't work positive encouragement.
@@kronos661
Gaslight machines into functioning
This sounds like a Heritech supporting video, I am calling the inquisition!
Do inquisitors even care about tech heresy?
I assume that's something the Mechanicus handles itself.
@@LethargicGM IIRC there is an ordo that is dedicated to looking over the actions of the mechanicus
@@captainpuffinpuffinson4769 But would the inquisition be concerned with the mechanicus definition of heresy? I imagine they dont give a shit if someone neglects his sacred bs in order to understand the tech. They are probably more concerned with some "genius" improving upon the tech by adding new and "improved" machine spirits to it aka demons
Maybe it is cause I am old, maybe it is because I know the narrative damage that can be done, but I don't like rapid changes in fiction. There are certain things you simply leave 'cemented in stone' because they set the tones and stages on which other stories can be written. This attempt to move Warhammer from a Science-Fantasy setting into a Science-Fictional setting is going to go badly for the old lore.
I believe you can make big changes but there had to be a lot of groundwork, and unfortunately most writers nowadays are just "move from cool thing to next cool thing." My favorite punching bag of this is the Star Wars Sequel Trilogy, with a little development the setting and premise could have worked (if you put a lot of work fixing Princess Palpatine) but they never built or gave a reason why, "Why is the Empire still around?" "No no they're the First Order, and you'll have to read the tie in novels in two or three years." "What happened to the Republic?" "They, uhh lost the will to live? Anyway who cares you have rebellion 2.0 to enjoy and we'll have several tie in novels, a couple comics and a musical theatre production to explain them and then be totally ignored in the next where they get entirely new powers and backstories."
I mean, Tyranids engage in a lot of serious reverse-engineering... all those delicious genes to absorb, analyze and apply to their own armies.
Man Arch's uploads fit perfectly with my work schedule, I get home and boom there's a new vid out, very nice.
Because we know All Electronics benefit from having hot wax seals and then being doused in perfumed oils. That would never cause anything to Short Circuit.
well of course it would. i mean you clearly used the wrong wax for your seal, should have burned some incense as you applied it and you failed to sing the 66th hymn of insulation before turning it on.
@@kertas1991111 Heretic, the omnissiah is be greatly displeased with you, clearly your passion for the toaster and sins of the pathetic flesh. The omnissiah clearly demands the 142nd invocation of inspection, and the 12th Litany of ignition.
Related to this topic and how the Imperium fundamentally misses the point of reverse engineering because they don't know science - I've honestly wondered if / when Roboute Guilleman would actually try to re-introduce science to the Imperium - it sounds like a great storyline to me; you set up a foundation of humans off in isolation on a space station or an isolated, depopulated former agri-world and get them to reinvent human civilization, starting from fire and working their way up the tech tree as fast as they can, without the help of the Mechanicus. Then the Mechanicus finds out what Roboute was up to and throws a fit and he has to negotiate to avoid both his foundation getting destroyed AND starting a war with the Mechanicus.
Science? Heresy, you mean! Perish the thought, machine spirits recoil at the idea!
Letting the human civilization develop from scratch would take tens of millennia. I know that RowBoat GirlyMan is practically immortal, but that's way too long. On the other hand, trying to re-invent the scientific process would make a lot of sense, and also put him in conflict with the Mechanicus.
@@pirig-gal Mechanicus is not THAT bad - for example there are Magoses who are actually interested to examine the rituals of technology to point they will figure out that lenght of the copper wire will matter for different application.
It just takes bit longer. After all - the precision of the ritual is in question. Thats what you have to pursue to be as pure as possible.
@@Paerigos An empirical method, but with a religious tint. No wonder it's slow. Fucking up an experiment today is not a tragedy, in 40k it's a sin and brings accusations of tech-heresy!
If Robo Girlieman actually tried to teach them how to reverse engineer a light bulb the
ineptus mechanicus,
ineptus arbites,
ineptus munitorum,
the ecclesiarchy,
His most wasteful inqusition,
and the enfuago sororatas would declare him a heretic and try exterminatis the 500 world's and any he'd been on since being resurrected.
The "stripping away a resistor completely and still not getting slightest hints at the underlying physics" was not entirely convincing, but that doesn't take away from this video's greatness. Much appreciated content.
I almost wonder if the Mechanicus' general lack of understanding is a narrative device meant to show what they sacrificed by renouncing their flesh and becoming machines. Humans are capable of learning and understanding the mechanisms behind things, but machines simply do what they are designed to without any knowledge of why.
Hmm did you ever work in a factory?
This is how I'd think of the mechanicus.
Basically you have the person operating the machine who only cares about pressing a certain button at a certain time and the machine does the thing. And believe me the vast majority of these people don't care about why or how (servitor)
Then you have the service techs. They just have the instructions on how to fix certain problems when they arise. The vast majority of repairs is just swapping out parts responsible for a certain function that stopped working for whatever reason (techpriest)
Above that you have the technical engineers who are responsible for certain calibrations. Usually within specifications provided by the manufacturer of the machine in question. They don't know how to build the machine, but they have a better understanding of why and how something works yes (tech adept? Whatever the rank above the techpriest is)
And finally I'll just clump up everyone who worked on creating the machine under the manufacturer.
They have the actual knowladge and documentation on how every little detail of the said machine works. (Lets call it magus)
That's what my "headcannon" is for the mechanicus and their workings.
Mainly since I refuse to believe that the people on the top of mechanicus don't understand at least some fundamentals. That's why I kinda like Cawl. He might be a mcguffin, but at least he's a mcguffin with a working brain.
Wasn't one of the big reasons why it's so hard to reverse-engineer older technology in the Imperium of Man was because it was made during the Dark Age of Technology? From what few hints we have about the DAOT, humanity was more on the level of telling the Eldar "that's cute" and being able to laugh at the best of what the Culture could do. Probably the only "current" society/race in the 40K universe that is close to DAOT humanity is the Necrons, and I suspect that they're neck-and-neck.
And, part of the problem is that the Imperium lacks (or so we think) strong AI in one form or another. Many of the things that the Imperium is trying to create or reproduce or recreate are intricate on a scale that the gearing and the mechanisms of a pocket watch might as well be a stone strapped to a stick with rawhide lashings. The sheer *scale* of what is needed is accomplish things is scary at times. Or the sheer level of detail required to accomplish something. I suspect the "primitive" nature of 40K warfare, by any technical standards, is because they have so many countermeasures in place for more "sophisticated" efforts.
And, this doesn't even account for the interference of the Ruinous Powers. One of the reasons why a lot of Imperial tech is so clunky is because that "clunk" is factors that had to be engineered in, or out, to keep some poor Guardsman from summoning a Hound of Khorne every time he pulled the trigger on his lasgun. Or having the hive's vox sets be easily used by a Demon Princess of Slannesh to spread the good word around.
The last time i was involved in reverse engineering a tech wonder from our glorious past we ended up with the entirety of the Show called Friends on DVD!
Tech priest completes millenia long project of producing a archaic data storage device. The Imperium stands in awe of the technological wonder that is the Zune.
"Zune, Zune, Zune !"
Well contrary to popular memes, they do invent, it just happens very very slowly because of the reason you mentioned: the cogboys doctrinal, religious view of science.
Where would all of the variants of weapons and Mks come from if there wasn't at least some iterative process...
Tech priest- (Finds Ak-47 schematics)
Also tech priest-(Нет, винтовка в порядке)
Arch: "you need to accept that the D is very devastating"
.... where's Roza Coatl when you need her?
25:30 Arch. Did you just take a pot shot at the Chinese for inventing Gunpowder half a millennia before knowing proper Chemisty, and then assume its only use was fireworks? LOL
Listening to this as I work on the rules for building units in a tabletop project I’m working on. Great for later ideas and themes
Honestly, I do struggle with conceptualizing admech for myself and I’ve probably given it more though than might be considered appropriate by some considering it’s fiction, but admech is definitely one of my favorite factions so here we are. Anyways, on one hand, the idea of the ignorant tech priest who doesn’t have the slightest idea how anything works, but is then not only entrusted (admittedly by circumstance) with all of mankind’s knowledge, but also actively puts so much trust in this tech he literally jams it onto his body is very interesting and appealing.
On the other hand, an Organisation of that kind of individuals works best either on smaller scale (not as a major pillar of a galactic empire) or in a setting wh40k used to be. The kind of setting where everybody is miserable all the time and ship guns are exclusively reloaded with chains and slaves. But these days I feel that wh40k wants to go for a more serious, but still dark, tone (any discussion on the successful execution of this non withstanding). That’s the kind of setting I prefer and I tend to filter out as much grimderp as I can without completely diverging from Warhammer. From this standpoint I find admech as described in this video somewhat immersion breaking for me. There’s just no way they don’t have any theoretical scientific knowledge.
Jut from a practical standpoint, the imperium is shown to have a wide array of equipment made of a wide array of materials. You need to manufacture those. Does the admech literally just have an exact (or good enough) blueprint of all the types of assemblies and factories they’d need for this? And alright, their database probably is that huge, but wouldn’t you need to make modifications for the various planetary environments across the galaxy? Surely that involves some understanding. And what of their implants? Sure, the implants they provide the masses are probably some sort of standard design (STC or otherwise), but the stuff high ranking magii have looks quite custom. Again, do they have that many STC parts for cybernetics? Sure, the more creative ones could just stuck several STC Paters together, but these advanced augments are said to do stuff like extend your life by centuries. I don’t find it very probable that something jury rigged from spare parts of unrelated machines be so wonderous. I mean, it would probably function to some degree, but I doubt the health benefits would be so great as they are shown to be.
So yeah, most admech lore seems to be from the good old grimderp days. It has charm and uniqueness in it, but if taken seriously, the imperium would collapse into the Stone Age within the year. I am still working on a head cannon compromise that makes them work as a space faring society without throwing away what makes ademch to be admech.
It isn't head canon, its just Arch pretending the silly memes are AKSHUALLY canon. It has about as much basis to it as, say, 'all Guardsmen are shit eating 'tards that die within 15 seconds'. Which is to say; yes, to some extent, but not really. Just like there are obviously an infinite number of counter examples to the Guardsmen shit, there are a vast number of examples to the contrary for the Cog Boys. There are just too many cases of them innovating and improving shit and geniune intelligence, or even genius, demonstrated to just handwave all of it away and pretend they are all drooling invalids that geniunely think waving incense infront of the jammed macro cannon will fix it. That and, of course, there's the basic common sense aspect of it all (again, not really 'head canon') which dictates that the idea that a galaxy spanning government that has functioned semi-well for over 10k years is literally incapable, across its ENTIRE fucking population and breadth, a government that has such stupendously advanced technology its functionally magic from our perspective, who run around the cosmos in multi km space ships that can casually shit out dino-killer levels of energy......of grasping even basic scientific principles, is so unimaginably moronic that it isn't worth addressing.
Just look at the servitors, there is no way those could be made (even if they could be "standardized" with clones of the same unfortunate man, which they are not) without an advanced understanding of cybernetics, electronics, and, especially, biology.
When you start to realise this is the future we are moving towards to.
Listening to Arch describe an inductor while referring to it as a resistor is wild.
Heretic!
We have a heretic here!
LMMAO
The jump between electron flow, to pipe "theory" gave me education whiplash... fallowed by the "description" of a resistor (inductor) was priceless... but my favorite part was "oil makes a cog move" and tech priests are stupid for thinking its the holly aspect (not the force applied to a cog).
Ya know I really love this about the imperium more so because I'm an repairman myself and the thought of saying prayers and conducting rituals to take the panel off a furnace makes me giggle. Not now I'm conducting the rights of charging the air conditioning and if I don't anoint the compressor with the correct amount of the sacred fluids it will anger the compressor's machine spirit.
Humanity at it's height was maybe catching up to the Eldar, they were still far behind the Necrons.
To be fair to the mechanicus, they are kind of ‘right,’ in the sense that belief does literally translate into reality in 40k. Therefore, while it may not originally have been necessary for all the ritualistic nonsense they include, 10,000 years of everyone believing it’s necessary has almost certainly made it so to some degree.
As a Admech fan boy, its a bit of column A, bit of Column B, a dash of C, etc. Ritual is very important, but the Mechanicus *does* understand the basic scientific methods and why certian things work. And a lot of the confusion surrounding the AdMech is due to conflicting writers and lore. Really old lore from Rogue Trader/ 2nd edition days the Admech were as Arch described. In more recent times, the AdMech began to be a bit more scientific and understood far more. But DAoT relics are so beyond current imperial tech that there is no way to replicate it and what they can replicate, they don't make copy blue prints for because of the AdMech's unfortunate tendency to want to horde every scrap of knowledge they can. Ryza is famous for it's plasma weaponry as an example because they refuse to share that knowledge outside of the cult on Ryza.
Which is why lost technology becomes more common, when you have a handful of individuals who understand a technology and the underlying principles of the tech then they all get wiped out due to can accident, invasion, assassination, etc, shit gets dicey quick. And make no mistake, the Mechanicus is still very spiritual, with every machine spirit being treated with reverence, and with how 40k works, there is some truth to the machine spirits.
This could be a boon for RPG GM's (Rogue Trader or more modern 40k rpgs), you find a STC-shard that explains properties of Copper or other such component.
It would not be lore-breakingly grounds shattering moment, but still it would be worthy reward of whatever fight players just had as Mechanicus would drool over any STC.
3:30 Sorry Arch but you activated my Well Aktually.
Few years back, the Powers That Be decided to make a small recon to The Plague Wars series by Mr. Haley, dialing back the time skip. Last I knew, it's been about under a decade, by Terra's reckoning, since Biggest Blueberry Lord Of Ultramar got back in the game alongside all of Uncle Cawl's neat toys.
The reasoning being, the events of the sundering of the galaxy into Imperium Sanctus and Imperium Nihilus, Mankind fighting with their new toys, Daemon Primarchs returning, Necrons reawakening en masse, Deldar scooping up isolated worlds like their half off candies, etc should be shown....greater care and in more detail.
They realized that they were heading for the cliff in their eagerness and pumped the brakes. Goes to show even corporate boards can suffer New Toy Syndrome.
Engineer here, a rezistor works by acting as an enviorment ment for the conversion of electrical energy (electricity) into thermal energy (heat). As the electrons run acros the rezistor, they hit its component atoms that later vibrate and thus heat arises. That is why it has a lower tension at the exit, diference in tension means loss of electric energy.
Imagine if the Xenos made something that may revive the God Emperor, that if they can figure it out they can bring their God back from his skeleton cosplay.
They would either have to destroy it, or somehow convince themselves that the heretical device was indeed human, and the Xenos just painted it to hide it from Them.
Also every time they take something out about it to study, they pray for each piece.
as an electrician you nailed explaining electrical resistors with the water pipe analogy
The lack of knowledge of how something functions is their biggest weakness and strength, if for example the Tau were to capture and interrogate a tech priest about how warp engines on starship work, the tech priest couldn't tell them, he'd eventually tell them he has to burn incense and rub holy oils onto a button before 30 prayers to appease the machine spirit within, then 500 other tech priests press their subsequent sequence of buttons and reciting prayers.
Explaining transistors by using 40k! Props! 😁
If you ask me, then it's Oscar worthy that you imply so much humor in something as dark and Grimm as wh40k I had to laugh so hard on some of your lines, thank you. If they ever do a new movie about 40k, they should hire you, would be hilarious.
Tech priest: We can make the Hellgun safer!
**angry gasmask breathing**
Except the rituals actually do have purpose at times. The machine spirit isn’t just nonsense as one would expect at first. Imperial tech is based upon and in many cases is ancient pre imperial technology from the dark age of technology where true AI has been fractured and split into shards or separate components and reintegrated into current tech giving many machines a shadow or ghost of its own intelligence.
is it possible that the warp-ish energies emanated during the ritualistic worship the TechPriests perform in order to understand a new thing inadvertently infuse that thing with a Machine-Spirit and thus transform that thing of normal pure tech into an item of Spirit-Tech thus making any normal scientific investigation of that item moot. since that spirit item is now governed by warp laws and not by mundane laws of physics??
Been watching your war for badab, hell of a series, I don't know what I'm going to listen to now that I've listened to the seige of vraks
To understand the grimderp that is the mechanicus and STCs, imagine the entire IKEA instruction catalogue, separated into letter-sized pages and scanned into a heavily fragmented RAID database. With 1 or more drives missing. And an "engineering community" that treats every corrupted image file as if they were chunks of the Dead Sea Scrolls or the Nag Hamadi Library [collections of highly fragmented early Christian scripture, some of non-canonical texts]. And they work for the Vatican. And they only can read English.
Liking the ramble format Arch
i still prefer the orc method of jamming stuff together and believing it will work and it does
About technological progress: Introducing fast-progressing Tau has already opened Pandora's box. Other factions had to react.
I believe you made your point very concisely. Just because you achieve the same results from reverse engineering but you don't actually achieve the knowledge of how you did what you did. Good video mate. You got intrested in warhammer.
you just know that there is a wall in the mechanicus hold somewhere, with a bunch of holes side by side," the wall of the found lamentations" where the inquisitors, or whoever finds something to give to the machanicus goes to to bang their skulls against said wall, after dealing with all this crap.
This is too damn funny. Now I imagine every Mechanicus enclave has a special "lamentation wall" for Imperium officials who get sick and tired of Mechanicus bullshit.
@@Andri474 And so you now understand why cranal reinforcements went viral in the imperium
Trying to remember a Strategy game Arch played where it was very detailed to the point of types of missiles and such. The game was set in modern times and you control units like aircraft and ship. Anyone has any idea?
Command:Modern Operations
Came for lore, received a doctorate in reverse engineering
Technician from M3: "Any science or technology sufficiently advanced is indistinguishable from magic..."
Tech Priest: "No! ALL SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY IS MAGIC!!!!"
I say we put the technician in the holy furnace, perform the sacred ritual of filling it with oil and clicking the sacred start button, and let the machine spirit within decide if this heretic should live.
What ppl need to understand tho is that the mechanicus works with unbelievably complex technologies that were developed using advanced ai that they don't have access to. So realistically any 21st century top of the shelf technology would be basically the most basic stuff for them
Can the Imperium reverse engineer some of dem cute cat girls and make more of them... and send them all straight to me?
Always a great time listening to Arch👍😎
How does the mechanichus reproduce?
I get that the cult itself recruits, but do adeptus biologa just keep stockpiles of gamete stores like with the astartes and then utilize artifical wombs like the death korps of krieg?
They can only reproduce according to the 34th rule.
Always recruiting, and most magi keep their reproductive organs, they may view the flesh as weak but they will never give up their humanity
Just read A Canticle for Leibowitz. I really do think that is where GW got the stock material for the Mechanicus. Just a thought.
I get that a Primarch coming back is going to cause the imperium to move forward. The way they justified the creation was that it was started before Papa Smurf went night night, and cawl’s been doing it for a LONG time. But they should have started at least at Grey knight levels of rarity. Guiliman’s own custodies, and through the Indomitus crusade, slowly, and I mean SLOWLY proliferate them into the other legions/chapters. They did it WAY to quickly
Alot of Cawl's new tech looks like Tau tech.
Damn you Cawl!
Had the same crap in battletech where they tried to pretend that all lost tech could be regained in a few decades and all units suddenly were filled with new mechs rather than a slow and gradual transition...
Same again with traveller rpg... the wkr burnt his universe down and now instead of tl15 we have uber AI etc... disentigrators popping up everywhere and suchlike..
A common fault when the creater of a system gets bored and let's some gits have access to it...
TBH the reason for such a fast pace of rediscovering lostech (as well as reverse engineer Clan Tech), is mostly due to the desperate fighting aginest the clans during the Clan Invasion era, to which the good telephone company Comstar managed to halt temporarily at Tukayyid in 3052. Its kind like the difference between the German tiger tank and the M4 Sherman, do you want to wait a long time for very good stuff to be made, or quickly produce stuff in vast quantity's that just good enough to use.
@mechrob1
In the original novels.. have read them all of course.. house marik produces refit kits.. the expense of which will take many years to cover.. there are also newer often flawed anti clan designs rushed onto some form of deployment...
However skip on a few years and a few books and rather than mostly refitted mechs (many poorly refitted) plus some new machines... we have one third and rising of new often mint battlemechs.. not helped by the unseen issues that almost ditched the Marauder etc.... the sheer impossibility of creating so many new units from a limited number of sources (I have reviewed the entire period on an almost individual mech tank asf dropshIp jumpship etc scale) makes this truely rubbish and what's worse.. it doesent have to be.. some authors used common sense and researched whilst others just used all the new stuff.. the old bigger is better bs... a few authors even had no understanding of the game verse whatsoever and wrote dribble that was more like arcade pish...
Xl engines.. Yes everyone will have these .. you surely would prefer àn Xl rifleman to. You know.. just sticking a gauss weapon on a normal atlas... and so on and so forth... the original battletech was about logistics (discounting gay death legion) and looking at the house actions... yet this is totally ignored in later material...
I have looked online and the nazi party (clan woopsy) is actually able to (in new germanic format not accepted by most) take terra...
The clans had no chance of victory.. they had almost no manufacturing base for warships.. yet woopsie squad starts writing and bobs your pocket warship despite a dropship actually costing about 60 percent of a warship.... (I did the full financial element of logistics as well) hey wob will beat everyone up.. they are outnumbered over 2000 to one with no reserves worth speaking of but throw in a lola 1 and suddenly it's able to win win win.. nuke everyone.. wooha fire sale man... as if everyone leaves their capital planets without constant BARCAP .. etc etc... agents everywhere man.. which is actually impossible as they would be easily detected and removed ... hack your systems man.. no also not possible.... unlimited resources man.. no no you don't. .. marik hidden fleet... just take it over Mr marik won't have any marines or ultra loyal people manning those ... shoot his kids yup a house lord won't have 3 mattmech regiments and 30 infantry regiments of elite ultra loyal troops plus spec ops etc protecting his ass.. you can just turn up and start shooting.. wobwob. ..
Prince Victor steiner davion... written as a hero.. though ofter wrongly written by authors borrowing the character .. then rewritten as a pillock ....
Binding force was real cool.. liked that style and all... with detail on the machines and respect for the actual logistics..
Then another author just goes woohaa let's roll some rcts. . Your mech regiment destroyed a force with 300 percent of its power and in fortified positions... you took light damage... err nooooo
Catherine (kat) steineroony I will murder thousands of people and started with our mum... new Victor character.. I can't deal with this I was only brought up by the best tactician house lord.. I will ignore this situation and go away for a bit so my sis can hand over my lands to another sis. Err.. that's not how regency works.. you wouldn't have given those powers over..
I know kat murdered mum.. I'm going to not go public and just play with my mecho rather than directing her immediate liquidation and appointing Kellman to run that side of things.. woohee. ..
So nope I don't think they covered it at all well.. logistics were impossible.. body politic was just trashed... all the good work or Stackpole etc was sht on from a height...
Remember Black Library later retconned that the Indomitus Crusade took over 100 years, down to only 12 years.
Hey, people wanted them to advance the storyline past m41. Be careful what you wish for, because advance it they did.
Will Arch ever do a video on "Machine Spirits"? Like,are they rudimentary AI? Or something else? I personally think they're basic AI but that's just me
@@john7143 I can see that. I always assumed they were on the level of some AI we have today; they aren't sentient yet can have pre-programmed personalities and behaviours
I kinda think it is very murky concept. It is both AI and something warpy... Enough imperial citizens and Mechanicus believe such concept exist so it does exist. Or maybe it could also be complex software or UI running.
The Mechanicus are probably the biggest hypocrites in 40k (Besides the Eldar and tau). They're cool and all, but their own counter productive and even self-invalidating logic is enough to drive me crazy.
Its because they try to prevent chaos from hacking their machines.
Techpriest, why did you modify this tech?
Techpriest: The Omnissiha granted me a vision.
This sounds like heresy talk Arch.
"Hold on... there's stuff in here!"
Adeptus Mechanicus in a nutshell
Arch you absolutly need to do a lore video on the Raven guard. They might not be the most fan favored but they are just awsome.
Go watch videos of Afghanistan people rebuilding parts that we in the modern world would have long since thrown away. That will give you an idea of what the mechanicus is doing. They know this thing does that thing. But they don't have fundamental understanding of what is actually doing the thing they are trying to make it do. They just know cable A makes motor B go zoom zoom. Despite that they are very creative.
40k is the only war game where research is not an issue unless it comes in the form of $50 books or miniatures!
If someone made a game with story,quests and mechanics like Skyrim and exploring like no man's sky and set it in 40k universe, that would in my opinion be the best game in the last 20 years.
Now this raises the question about individuals like the emperor or the primarchs, like vulkan ferrus Manus. Individuals we know as investors and fabricators, did they know how things really work or do they also assume the magic squiggles and the fancy smoke is what makes the engine go vroom??