What there really is, is a shortage of electrical apprenticeship and apprenticeships in general for the labour/ constructions sector which I find absolutely ridiculous
That’s a really interesting stat you’ve mentioned there. 95% pass rate for and 18 day course. The short course spark ends up self employed as you said. Does the customer know this? Do they care? I’ve had a gold card now with 2391 etc for 20 years. Not once have I been asked to produce it. Not once have I been asked if I’m even a spark. For all the customer knows I could be a painter and decorator who’s changed a few face plates and grown the confidence to dabble in the electrical game. After all it’s only 3 wires and if it switches on it’s all good. This industry needs a real shake up. At least the big companies are doing something about this apparent shortage by trading up ESO’s eh? 🤷
And can I add I’m not having a go at the short course guys. I welcome people who missed an apprenticeship and are training as adult trainees, but there must be better ways than these money making schemes
Who told you that and in what context? 2391 is always good to have and should mean that you can apply for approved contractor, and everyone needs the latest BS7671
I wish that some people would give us 3week wonders a break, I don’t mind chasing walls out etc and start from the bottom, so that people can see you have a good work ethic and build from there and then assess what knowledge/ experience base you have. I know a couple of time served electricians that ride around on horses. My course was nine weeks spread over 3 years. I have my AM2 , looking to do NVQ3 soon. My only option is to go self employed and do domestic electrics. The whole thing is a farce really. So if there are any Electricians in the Worcestershire area looking for a very willing worker I’m available. Thanks
Blessed if I know, that’s just how it all worked out. The training provider set it up. I’ve read that the nvq3 should come first then AM2. I wish I’d gone to college instead but It meant I’d have to wait 6 months and I really wanted to “crack on” .
I myself am a carpenter of 25 years I have found a lot of "qualified electricians" don't give a hoot about the quality of work, yet have the arrogance to lecture me about the importance of workmanship and being competent in what you. I find electricians arrogant and hide behind smoke and mirrors. The domestic installer coarse can produce some genuine clever smart and hardworking electricians, its down to the coarse providers to filter out the chancers and give others a chance to retrain and do well for themselves. I myself use a "domestic installer" for any work I need done, (all within his scope) and he has been the most honest, transparent and humble electrician i have dealt with.
I guess the problem with the domestic installer course, is that it misses out a lot of important theory and understanding. This is the level of knowledge that an apprentice is required to know www.cityandguilds.com/-/media/productdocuments/building_services_industry/plumbing/8202/level_3/assessment_materials/theory_exam/electrical/past_papers/2017/8202-031_and_531_electrical_theory_exam_spring_2017-pdf.ashx Without this level of knowledge a domestic installer is just a fitter, as they do not fully understand what they are doing and why they are doing it. It’s easy to copy what you have seen. I don’t mean any disrespect, because my own training was horrendous so I have had to work hard to get that knowledge level up and it has taken me 20 years
7:10 Adrian I don't believe this to be correct. AFAIK there is no legal requirement for anyone advertising themselves as an electrician to have any formal qualifications whatsoever. No more than a decorator, plasterer, bricklayer, or any other common trade. Certain industry bodies may have their own definitions of what an electrician should be but that only applies within the bubble of the industry to those that decide to adopt those definitions.
@@Pure_electrical_training the industry is fragmented, there is no one over ruling authority. Out of interest, I did a bit of searching, the word 'electrician' doesn't seem to be used much in the few places I looked: It appears once only in BS7671, in a instructional notice for caravans. No definition. NICEIC list their members as 'domestic installers' or 'approved contractors'. The word 'electrician' is used in a couple of articles aimed at the public but they don't exactly state their members are electricians. NAPIT similar, the word appears on the website a couple of times, but their members are not referred to as electricians, 'operatives' and other words are used. Blueflame don't use the word at all. I didn't check stroma or elecsa. The EAS doesn't define electrician, it uses terms such as 'instructed person', 'skilled person' and 'qualified supervisor'
In which case that proves my point further, as the schemes don’t want to label their members as electricians, but that is exactly what the public are expecting when they make the decision to call someone
@@Pure_electrical_training I see it differently. To me, the term 'electrician' is very broad, all-encompassing. It could mean anyone meeting the dictionary definition: an auto electrician, someone who specialises in appliance repair, someone who works on airplane electrics, someone working on the national grid, common domestic/commercial/industrial spark, the list goes on. All of the above are, IMO, electricians as they work on electrical systems. But it's hard to compare the skills needed to, for example, carry out EICRs on domestic rentals day in day out, with those needed to, say, work on the electrical system of a nuclear submarine. They are very different jobs. I cannot speak for the schemes (maybe ask them direct? Would be interesting to hear their reasons), but perhaps they don't use the term electrician as it's simply to vague. BTW I like your videos Adrian, some interesting stuff there
I wonder about some fully qualified electricians too, my sister and fella bought an old terraced house, got the obligatory electrical test for mortgage, insurance, ect. he plugs in a lawnmower and it pops. later on she plugs in a usb hard drive and that broke too. 3TB gone. They avoid using that one socket all together now. I managed to get the HDD working again with a new cicuit board and bios switch but the data was not retrievable. This should have been found during the electrical test or I would have thought it should.
total myth! I have spent 3 years in college finished C&G 2365 L2 & L3 in 2015 18th edition ECS to add to whole plethora of other quals and live events experience at a very competitive level, I have toured as lighting tech around Europe and have not received one single job offer in months and months of applying! I was sneered at by agencies!!! I was so desperate I offered myself pro bono and still nothing!!! I am convinced all my electrical quals are not worth the paper their printed on!!!
@@Pure_electrical_training east London, you would think that work would rain on me considering how many building sites there are around centre and financial district, but no! nothing. it's so frustrating!
@@stamprost you could perhaps work as a labourer first? Then when you get that onsite experience, I think electrical firms will be keen to take you on as am electrician mate?
Gold card rates are going down day by day, now self-employed should work more 1 hour and they are cut off 1 hour lunch time, mean it's unpaid, so you must work 10 hours and be paid 9 and after 8 hour should be overtime but you will get flat rate, plus payroll fees can vary from 18 to 25 per week. More and more agencies now are starting to recruiting approved electrician which is including testing and inspection, but rates could be the same or +1quid. The industry is overcrowded with cards but not with the skilled worker, so if you are more skilled doesn't mean you will get more money. Another thing i got mates that aren't gold card but are doing amazing installations, faster with 95 % gold card on the sites but are paid less and much more should do snagging after so called gold card, they can't complain and must obey the rule work harder get lesser. In the end I'd say there are a lot of electrician with qualifications but lack of skills. Card doesn't mean you're good and have the right skills it means you passed the path and spent a lot of money.
Maybe the ecs or other organization should assess the electricians on the sites, like feedback from supervisers, managers, agencies, proven and finished contracts jobs to help the workers which are hard working to get better rates, conditions or to be a rating on ECS site, let the people to know their heroes, it will help also future employers and will push others to build a reputation
According to my electrical teacher at my current level 3 EAL course. They are changing the qualification to level 3, so a level 2 qualification are not allowed to work on houses anymore. This is the new requirement set by niceic, so this new change will chop down a lot of those who just did a level 2 course and other irrelevant courses to not be able allowed to call themselves electricians. I wonder if you heard of this change as well? I think this change may safeguard the 'electrician' title.
Not when there is a side door, with a an easier queue Become an electrician and get a gold card the easy way on the CG2346 experienced worker route th-cam.com/video/AkYYVdUJB5Y/w-d-xo.html
I’ve never used an electrician. I’ve always DIYed. On a rewire it’s still cheaper to notify via the local authority than pay a part P “competent” person if you Do it Yourself.
They do send someone round. But NAPIT also run a scheme where you can pay a part P person to come round, inspect and sign off. Obviously you need to install in accordance with part P and BS7671:18.
I obviously don’t advocate people DIYing unless they are competent to undertake the work. I have 7671:18 and C&G 2391-52. I’m just not in a CPS for part P. So I’m in a strange position where I am qualified to do initial verification and periodic inspections but not sign off my own work as part p compliant. Go figure!! The strange world of electrics! But I am in a position to go behind a part P installer and critique their work on an EICR.
If there is a shortage of fully qualified electricians that means there is a shortage of electricians as those domestic electricians are not fully qualified.
In truth when they say there is a skills shortage, what they actually mean there is a lack of skilled people working for the rates being offered.
What there really is, is a shortage of electrical apprenticeship and apprenticeships in general for the labour/ constructions sector which I find absolutely ridiculous
Interesting video topic
That’s a really interesting stat you’ve mentioned there. 95% pass rate for and 18 day course. The short course spark ends up self employed as you said. Does the customer know this? Do they care? I’ve had a gold card now with 2391 etc for 20 years. Not once have I been asked to produce it. Not once have I been asked if I’m even a spark. For all the customer knows I could be a painter and decorator who’s changed a few face plates and grown the confidence to dabble in the electrical game. After all it’s only 3 wires and if it switches on it’s all good. This industry needs a real shake up. At least the big companies are doing something about this apparent shortage by trading up ESO’s eh? 🤷
And can I add I’m not having a go at the short course guys. I welcome people who missed an apprenticeship and are training as adult trainees, but there must be better ways than these money making schemes
Just done am2e and been told didn't need to do 2391 or 7671 what's the truth both are part of am2e 3 day exam?
Who told you that and in what context?
2391 is always good to have and should mean that you can apply for approved contractor, and everyone needs the latest BS7671
@@Pure_electrical_training because test and inspect and 7671 covered in am2 exam
I wish that some people would give us 3week wonders a break, I don’t mind chasing walls out etc and start from the bottom, so that people can see you have a good work ethic and build from there and then assess what knowledge/ experience base you have. I know a couple of time served electricians that ride around on horses. My course was nine weeks spread over 3 years. I have my AM2 , looking to do NVQ3 soon. My only option is to go self employed and do domestic electrics. The whole thing is a farce really. So if there are any Electricians in the Worcestershire area looking for a very willing worker I’m available. Thanks
How did you complete the AM2 without first getting level 3... 🤔
Blessed if I know, that’s just how it all worked out. The training provider set it up. I’ve read that the nvq3 should come first then AM2. I wish I’d gone to college instead but It meant I’d have to wait 6 months and I really wanted to “crack on” .
I myself am a carpenter of 25 years I have found a lot of "qualified electricians" don't give a hoot about the quality of work, yet have the arrogance to lecture me about the importance of workmanship and being competent in what you. I find electricians arrogant and hide behind smoke and mirrors. The domestic installer coarse can produce some genuine clever smart and hardworking electricians, its down to the coarse providers to filter out the chancers and give others a chance to retrain and do well for themselves. I myself use a "domestic installer" for any work I need done, (all within his scope) and he has been the most honest, transparent and humble electrician i have dealt with.
I guess the problem with the domestic installer course, is that it misses out a lot of important theory and understanding.
This is the level of knowledge that an apprentice is required to know
www.cityandguilds.com/-/media/productdocuments/building_services_industry/plumbing/8202/level_3/assessment_materials/theory_exam/electrical/past_papers/2017/8202-031_and_531_electrical_theory_exam_spring_2017-pdf.ashx
Without this level of knowledge a domestic installer is just a fitter, as they do not fully understand what they are doing and why they are doing it.
It’s easy to copy what you have seen.
I don’t mean any disrespect, because my own training was horrendous so I have had to work hard to get that knowledge level up and it has taken me 20 years
You will probably find out that you aren’t qualified without the portfolio being complete.
Have you tried applying for a gold card?
7:10 Adrian I don't believe this to be correct. AFAIK there is no legal requirement for anyone advertising themselves as an electrician to have any formal qualifications whatsoever. No more than a decorator, plasterer, bricklayer, or any other common trade.
Certain industry bodies may have their own definitions of what an electrician should be but that only applies within the bubble of the industry to those that decide to adopt those definitions.
But surely if the schemes are advertising their members as electricians, then they should be classed as electricians according to the industry 🤷♂️
@@Pure_electrical_training the industry is fragmented, there is no one over ruling authority. Out of interest, I did a bit of searching, the word 'electrician' doesn't seem to be used much in the few places I looked:
It appears once only in BS7671, in a instructional notice for caravans. No definition.
NICEIC list their members as 'domestic installers' or 'approved contractors'. The word 'electrician' is used in a couple of articles aimed at the public but they don't exactly state their members are electricians.
NAPIT similar, the word appears on the website a couple of times, but their members are not referred to as electricians, 'operatives' and other words are used.
Blueflame don't use the word at all. I didn't check stroma or elecsa.
The EAS doesn't define electrician, it uses terms such as 'instructed person', 'skilled person' and 'qualified supervisor'
In which case that proves my point further, as the schemes don’t want to label their members as electricians, but that is exactly what the public are expecting when they make the decision to call someone
@@Pure_electrical_training I see it differently. To me, the term 'electrician' is very broad, all-encompassing. It could mean anyone meeting the dictionary definition: an auto electrician, someone who specialises in appliance repair, someone who works on airplane electrics, someone working on the national grid, common domestic/commercial/industrial spark, the list goes on.
All of the above are, IMO, electricians as they work on electrical systems. But it's hard to compare the skills needed to, for example, carry out EICRs on domestic rentals day in day out, with those needed to, say, work on the electrical system of a nuclear submarine. They are very different jobs.
I cannot speak for the schemes (maybe ask them direct? Would be interesting to hear their reasons), but perhaps they don't use the term electrician as it's simply to vague.
BTW I like your videos Adrian, some interesting stuff there
I wonder about some fully qualified electricians too, my sister and fella bought an old terraced house, got the obligatory electrical test for mortgage, insurance, ect. he plugs in a lawnmower and it pops. later on she plugs in a usb hard drive and that broke too. 3TB gone. They avoid using that one socket all together now. I managed to get the HDD working again with a new cicuit board and bios switch but the data was not retrievable. This should have been found during the electrical test or I would have thought it should.
Hard to tell without seeing the report and knowing what was done
total myth! I have spent 3 years in college finished C&G 2365 L2 & L3 in 2015 18th edition ECS to add to whole plethora of other quals and live events experience at a very competitive level, I have toured as lighting tech around Europe and have not received one single job offer in months and months of applying! I was sneered at by agencies!!! I was so desperate I offered myself pro bono and still nothing!!! I am convinced all my electrical quals are not worth the paper their printed on!!!
Where abouts are you based?
@@Pure_electrical_training east London, you would think that work would rain on me considering how many building sites there are around centre and financial district, but no! nothing. it's so frustrating!
Maybe your name is putting them off? 😂. Have you tried agencies?
@@stamprost you could perhaps work as a labourer first? Then when you get that onsite experience, I think electrical firms will be keen to take you on as am electrician mate?
Gold card rates are going down day by day, now self-employed should work more 1 hour and they are cut off 1 hour lunch time, mean it's unpaid, so you must work 10 hours and be paid 9 and after 8 hour should be overtime but you will get flat rate, plus payroll fees can vary from 18 to 25 per week. More and more agencies now are starting to recruiting approved electrician which is including testing and inspection, but rates could be the same or +1quid.
The industry is overcrowded with cards but not with the skilled worker, so if you are more skilled doesn't mean you will get more money.
Another thing i got mates that aren't gold card but are doing amazing installations, faster with 95 % gold card on the sites but are paid less and much more should do snagging after so called gold card, they can't complain and must obey the rule work harder get lesser.
In the end I'd say there are a lot of electrician with qualifications but lack of skills. Card doesn't mean you're good and have the right skills it means you passed the path and spent a lot of money.
I have heard others say the same thing, I feel a 2nd video coming on 🤔
Maybe the ecs or other organization should assess the electricians on the sites, like feedback from supervisers, managers, agencies, proven and finished contracts jobs to help the workers which are hard working to get better rates, conditions or to be a rating on ECS site, let the people to know their heroes, it will help also future employers and will push others to build a reputation
According to my electrical teacher at my current level 3 EAL course. They are changing the qualification to level 3, so a level 2 qualification are not allowed to work on houses anymore. This is the new requirement set by niceic, so this new change will chop down a lot of those who just did a level 2 course and other irrelevant courses to not be able allowed to call themselves electricians. I wonder if you heard of this change as well? I think this change may safeguard the 'electrician' title.
Not when there is a side door, with a an easier queue
Become an electrician and get a gold card the easy way on the CG2346 experienced worker route
th-cam.com/video/AkYYVdUJB5Y/w-d-xo.html
De skilling of the electrical industry.
I’ve never used an electrician. I’ve always DIYed. On a rewire it’s still cheaper to notify via the local authority than pay a part P “competent” person if you Do it Yourself.
Do the local authority send someone round to check what you’ve installed, or do they just tick a box?
They do send someone round. But NAPIT also run a scheme where you can pay a part P person to come round, inspect and sign off. Obviously you need to install in accordance with part P and BS7671:18.
I obviously don’t advocate people DIYing unless they are competent to undertake the work. I have 7671:18 and C&G 2391-52. I’m just not in a CPS for part P. So I’m in a strange position where I am qualified to do initial verification and periodic inspections but not sign off my own work as part p compliant. Go figure!! The strange world of electrics! But I am in a position to go behind a part P installer and critique their work on an EICR.
If there is a shortage of fully qualified electricians that means there is a shortage of electricians as those domestic electricians are not fully qualified.
This explains it well
electrical.theiet.org/media/1150/electrical-qualifications.pdf