I started LR shooting in early 2003 with a Leupold MK4 with a MIL Dot reticle and 1/4 MOA adjustments. I struggled with that until about 2009, when I bought an IOR 3-18x42mm with the MP-8 Mil reticle and 0.1 Mil adjustments. What a breath of fresh air to have a scope that the reticle and adjustments were the same. I never bought a scope again that the reticle did not match the adjustments. Mil's is so easy to use, as it's a decimal (10 base) system, and leaves fractions behind. A MIl is simply 1/1000 of any measurement system you chose to use. So one Mil is one yard at 1,000 yds. Or one meter at 1,000 meters. Or one cubit at 1,000 cubits.
Shot MOA for years until Q finally convinced me to switch to Mils in LR 202 late last year. Made the switch in all my optics over the last 6 months, and there's no looking back now.
MOA was just so much easier for me to understand first getting into PRS and LR shooting. My first scope was MOA, i was already used to MOA when it came to red dots on my carbines so I picked up learning MOA fast. Its easier for me to judge MOA, especially using the metric that 1 MOA at 100 yards is just at 1 inch, so its so much easier to do the math as the distance increases and I dont have to think as much. Im sure if I picked up using MRAD instead, id probably be at the same pace as I know MOA today...but I just understand MOA so much, im just too lazy to throw on a MRAD scope and start learning it. I see no point if I already know MOA so well. If its not broke - dont fix it? I guess? So I just stay with MOA. My only issue is friends I shoot with using MILs and saying "Oh you need to adjust 2/10s of a mil" and im like "uhhhhhhhhh....whats that in MOA!? LMAO" and i have to make them convert that adjustment to MOA for me
An MOA is an MOA, at any distance also. I like them both. As a kid in the 70's, all mine and my Dad's scopes were MOA, didn't learn MIL until adulthood. Agree 100% with you on FFP, though!
I use MOA because of a slightly more precise adjustment (yes it’s true seeing as how 1/10 of an adjustment is .36” at 100 where as 1/4 moa adjustment is .26) and I learned it first and understand it better.
I got great deals from pawn shops so now I have MOA and MILS scopes (Night Force/Riton/Zeiss) Bottom line: take the time to make good DOPE cards and then it doesn’t matter (DOP on both hash marks and clicks). I’m leaning towards MILS. Thanks
M1 is MOA, M14 is MOA, M4 is MOA, & M16 is MOA. Military Decimal Target is MOA. EIC and NRA High Power Rifle Competition is MOA. Military zeroing targets are graduated in MOA. And wind is countered best from MOA wind formula. The bottom line is most scopes and sights are graduated in MOA to express amount of movement in inches at target distance because it is fast and easy. In fact measurement in MOA was seen as ideal for sight adjustment from day one and mils has always been preferred as a means to ranging.
I use both. It helps keep me more accurate and accountable for my shots because I need to think before I start sending rounds. But I know I tend to lean more towards mils the more I shoot.
Great info Grew up with the Unertl Scope then the early Leopold MK4 - all were MIL reticle MOA adjustments. Think MIL adjustments are less susceptible to being a rotation off. Yes MOA is a finer adjustment 1 click MOA=.25 vs 1 click MIL= .36, but who can hold that tight to see the difference. r/
There is no cheat code for an MOA based system, like there is with MILS. The speed drop formula for elevation correction, as well as your gun or wind number for what your particular load is. Example: .1 MIL per 100 yards for ypur #. This can be found using a ballistic software program. You can also round up or round down to the first number in your G1 BC to find your #. It will get you very close to your number by using that method. Happy shooting you guys!
I use moa but recently bought a mil reticle scope, mostly to try it out and cause the vortex razor from what I saw has a different reticle depending on mil vs moa, and I liked the mil reticle better
Problem with Mils is it’s only a measurement when looking through a scope. MOA is effectively just inches so it’s useful in other ways such as measuring accuracy.
@@alzee1750MOA is used to describe movement in inches at target distance a sight adjustment in MOA will make, i.e. 1inch at 100 yards, 2 inches at 200 yards and so on.
As far as fine point busy reticles are concerned, I'm all for them. But I'm with C_does in that a reticle should be usable throughout the entirety of a scopes magnification range. Unfortunately many MPVO christmas tree reticles such as what nightforce has on their nx8 is entirely worthless at its minimum magnification. If it at least hard a thicker horseshoe that disappeared at max magnification it would make a lot more sense
I don’t think either is really hard to use and go back and forth between them. Meaning if I have a BDC reticle like my LPVO from PA it’s in MOA. My long range rifle is in MILs since I will dial that one and is what I was taught on. I’ve also found I can range quicker with a MIL reticle If there is BDC
I get the concept and understand why the PRS guys use the mil system but how do you range a standard IPSG (15"w x 18"L) or one MOA gong with a mil reticle? I've been shooting moa for 40 years and I'm thinking about switching to mils just because the PRS matches are all pretty much using it and it seems like the top tier scopes are only offered in mils. I mostly bench rest ELR so dialing is so much easier and more accurate at least for me.
Do you prefer to think in 1/4 based fractions or base 10 in 0.1 decimals? Pretty much all it boils down to. It’s good to be proficient in both. My hunting rifles are all 1/4 MOA. GPR and precision bolt gun are 0.1 MRAD.
Mils seems like it would be easier because everything is divided or multiplied by 10 but I grew up with imperial system of measurements. It's effortless by calculating distances in feet and yards instead of centimeters and meters. That being said it is quicker turning the mils teret over moa teret
I want to learn MILS. I have two scopes. One is a Trac and the other is a primary arms. I have been watching numerous related videos on using a mil reticle but haven’t figured it out yet. I’m in Florida, Broward County. Where do you offer training and classes ?Thanks
There is zero problem with MOA dials and mil reticle ever because the initial zero is a placeholder and thus the reticle in mils will be favored and held to target distance independent of dials. What you never want is mil dials and MOA reticle.
I bought a MIL scope because the MOA version was out of stock. It’s just a cheap Arken 6-24x anyway on my AR10. What’s the longest range you guys have available to you that isn’t JTAC?
If you’re NOT using a ballistic calculator and/or higher power magnification (above 10x), MOA will get the job done and is easier for most people to extrapolate the math as you go to longer distances. You’re probably also planning to stop at mid-range, 5-600 yards, so any error in true MOA and “shooter” MOA won’t matter. Finally, if you’re planning on shooting with others who are using MOA it’s much more practical that you’re all on the same units. You don’t want people doing math or converting wind calls from MOA just for you. HOWEVER, if you’re planning to use ballistic solvers (Kestrel, Hornady 4DOF, etc), which give results in decimal place regardless of unit, MIL is easier because you direct dial to the .1 instead of converting .1 to 1/4 values (eg 4.61 = 4 and 2 more clicks for 4.5). Also, even though MOA is a finer scale, this can be a problem with ballistic reticles because the dots or indications are closer together which can obscure more of the target and make them harder to read. Also, there are generally more options for grid/ranging reticles in MIL than MOA because of the adoption of MIL by the military.
I use 1/8 moa sfp for f class, .1 mil ffp for my prs style rifles. I push a button on my kestrel and it gives me a number and I turn the turret to match that number. I think in inches so moa makes more sense to me is an irrelevant statement for anything other than talking about rifle capabilities: my rifle is a 3/4 moa rifle at 100 yards, I immediately know what that means. If you used mils instead, I would have to pause a second to figure it out. Ranging with a reticle is a shit show, not every coyote is the same size. You are using an avg coyote size and it could be sitting down or there could be tall grass obscuring part of its legs or it could be a runt or extra large or you could be off a little in the mil/moa value that you measure in the reticle because the subtensions in the reticle are not that granular. For example most mil scopes have .2 mil hashes, what if the actual mil value is .234 but you use .24 in your ranging calculations. Stack all those errors on top of each other and you get into unethical territory at fairly mid ranges for taking shots at game animals. Just use a rangefinder. The only real math that you need to do is calculating your wind hold, ex: at 500 yards, 5 mph is 1 mil, the wind is 7.5 mph so that is 1.5 mil hold. Oh I missed by .2 mil right, hold 1.3 mils instead of 1.5. Imo if you are on the clock, this is easier using mils. In f class I use the scoring rings for wind holds.
I prefer to use moa. 1 mil at 100 yards is roughly 3.6 inches. 1.047x3.4377=3.599 inches at 100 yards. 1/10 of 3.6 is .36. Therefore 1/4 moa (.25) is a smaller/finer adjustment than 1/10 mil. Not to mention my brain doesn’t see in meters and cm. I see in inches feet and yards. Not saying you should or shouldn’t. But there’s that
If you are just starting, go mil. There is better info and its just easier with the wind/drop cheat formulas. Also weaponized math/gravity ballistics makes getting data out to 1000y really easy.
I think the best way to look at this is not which one is better but to train with both. You never know when you have to pick up someone else’s rifle with a different type of reticle that you may have to use. The more you know, the more you know 😉
Y’all need to get a real Douglas SPR barrel on that mock 12 you’re doing yourself a disservice not having the real barrel with an AEM5 or OCM5 they’re so damn quiet and 0 point of impact shift they’re both amazing suppressors
i prefer MOA, easy math for ranging, its just size of target ÷ MOA and that gets you close enough on most targets 😁 Size÷MOA×95.5 if i need more precision. also on bigger targets i can just use 1moa or .5 moa increments and not bother with .25 or .75 😁 easy. I dont really listen to other shooters at matches and we arnt allowed to be coached or spotted so lots of the advantages of Mils doesnt apply to me. ill get a Mil scope eventually but for now MOA is more convenient for me with the type of shooting i do 😁
1/4 MOA Is a finer adjustment then 1/10 mil so you got that wrong. Turrets on scopes Don't care about MOA versus Mills. The internals Of this scope have a Maximum Adjustments. regardless If. It's mOA or Mills.. Mills are in tents so the math is easier. I will give you that. But MOA is a finer adjustment.
I’m stupid. So I use MOA. One of my buddies who shoots long distance and can see equations floating in mid air like Beautiful Mind tried to explain Milrad and I immediately braindumped everything and gave up.
Mils are easier because it's base-10. We really need to join the rest of the civilized world and switch to the metric system. I always chuckle at myself when I see guys running MRAD but doing everything else in standard/imperial measurements.
No, no, and no again, it should not be a this vs that since ALL trained shooters know the value of both angular units of measurement. Turrets do not need to match reticle and in fact mil reticle and MOA dials are best for a multitude of reasons but typically the placeholder zero is dialed in MOA and then the mil reticle is used for ranging, target hold, and wind favor. There are no conversions ever. The range card serves to deliver mil wind favor from initial MOA wind constant formula, which means for exacting wind favor the MOA windage dial can give shooter the ability to get an exacting hold on target. Creds: Military Rifle Instructor assisting the USAMU deliver SDM, TTT, and SAFS training, US Distinguished Rifleman, and American High Power Rifleman in Long-Range. One more thing, BDC should always be annotated from the ballistics calculation for the cartridge entertained, period.
Interesting that you equate mil-dot reticles with civilians who don't know how to shoot and MOA reticles with military. When the opposite is true. It's literally in the name, Mil-Dot which stands for miliradian and that is what was taught in the 1980s in the Marine corps..🤔
It's literally irrelevant for anything but resell. The vast majority of the community desires MILL given it's a more accurate unit of measure, so you'll have a fsr easier time selling a MILL optic vs MOA m. What would be a better topic of discussion is FFP vs SFP. SFP shts on FFP at known distance. It's infinitely easier, and you're capable of getting far more precise shots with SFP but only at known distance. For anything needing range estimations SFP is completely worthless and FFP is king.
.25moa adjustment is more refined than .1mil adjustment fyi. .25 moa adjustment at 100 yards is ~.25 inches, while.1mil adjustment at 100 yards is .36inches. I'm not sure if MIL scopes get more refined than .1mil adjustments, but most I've used are either .1 or .2mil adjustments.
I usually agree with you guys, but not on this video. Seems like you don't work with MOA enough to see that it is easier to understand than MIL. But to each their own.
As a us citizen raised in imperial measurement i find moa very intuitive but the math is ridiculous. So i would say if I'm working semi auto DMR or SPR doctrine (typically characterized by hold overs) I'd favor moa for quicker intuitive aiming. For first round perfection, particularly on a bolt gun, mrad is simpler/superior IMHO.
Mils is king baby. I also use meters instead of yards as well. To me just superior for all things. Acogs use mils. Most military optics use mils. Some civi optics use mils with moa adjustment. I just go all mils and it’s all good 🇺🇸
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I started LR shooting in early 2003 with a Leupold MK4 with a MIL Dot reticle and 1/4 MOA adjustments. I struggled with that until about 2009, when I bought an IOR 3-18x42mm with the MP-8 Mil reticle and 0.1 Mil adjustments. What a breath of fresh air to have a scope that the reticle and adjustments were the same. I never bought a scope again that the reticle did not match the adjustments.
Mil's is so easy to use, as it's a decimal (10 base) system, and leaves fractions behind. A MIl is simply 1/1000 of any measurement system you chose to use. So one Mil is one yard at 1,000 yds. Or one meter at 1,000 meters. Or one cubit at 1,000 cubits.
As a highly trained sniper I use Kentucky windage only, sometimes it works
What is Kentucky Windage? BTW, can you tell me the MOA wind constant for M118 at 1000 yards?
Shot MOA for years until Q finally convinced me to switch to Mils in LR 202 late last year. Made the switch in all my optics over the last 6 months, and there's no looking back now.
MOA was just so much easier for me to understand first getting into PRS and LR shooting. My first scope was MOA, i was already used to MOA when it came to red dots on my carbines so I picked up learning MOA fast. Its easier for me to judge MOA, especially using the metric that 1 MOA at 100 yards is just at 1 inch, so its so much easier to do the math as the distance increases and I dont have to think as much. Im sure if I picked up using MRAD instead, id probably be at the same pace as I know MOA today...but I just understand MOA so much, im just too lazy to throw on a MRAD scope and start learning it. I see no point if I already know MOA so well. If its not broke - dont fix it? I guess? So I just stay with MOA. My only issue is friends I shoot with using MILs and saying "Oh you need to adjust 2/10s of a mil" and im like "uhhhhhhhhh....whats that in MOA!? LMAO" and i have to make them convert that adjustment to MOA for me
Mil...FFP...easier...a mil is a MIL! Love you stuff. Dying to come down and train with y'all! Keep it up and keep it coming.
An MOA is an MOA, at any distance also. I like them both. As a kid in the 70's, all mine and my Dad's scopes were MOA, didn't learn MIL until adulthood. Agree 100% with you on FFP, though!
Just started using mils. Got my first lpvo. Vortex viper gen2 1-6x
I use MOA because of a slightly more precise adjustment (yes it’s true seeing as how 1/10 of an adjustment is .36” at 100 where as 1/4 moa adjustment is .26) and I learned it first and understand it better.
Saving this at the 1:00 mark for why not to use warcomps with cans. But besides that great content as usual
Love y’all’s channel and content, wasn’t trying to argue just couldn’t hold that one In.
I got great deals from pawn shops so now I have MOA and MILS scopes (Night Force/Riton/Zeiss) Bottom line: take the time to make good DOPE cards and then it doesn’t matter (DOP on both hash marks and clicks). I’m leaning towards MILS. Thanks
I use MoA just because it's what I learned and never ventured out
M1 is MOA, M14 is MOA, M4 is MOA, & M16 is MOA. Military Decimal Target is MOA. EIC and NRA High Power Rifle Competition is MOA. Military zeroing targets are graduated in MOA. And wind is countered best from MOA wind formula. The bottom line is most scopes and sights are graduated in MOA to express amount of movement in inches at target distance because it is fast and easy. In fact measurement in MOA was seen as ideal for sight adjustment from day one and mils has always been preferred as a means to ranging.
I use both. It helps keep me more accurate and accountable for my shots because I need to think before I start sending rounds. But I know I tend to lean more towards mils the more I shoot.
Great info
Grew up with the Unertl Scope then the early Leopold MK4 - all were MIL reticle MOA adjustments.
Think MIL adjustments are less susceptible to being a rotation off.
Yes MOA is a finer adjustment 1 click MOA=.25 vs 1 click MIL= .36, but who can hold that tight to see the difference.
r/
I love the blackout defense triggers
Can't wait for an MOA version of the March 1.5-15x42 DFP
I run kentucky windage
Best thing on the internet that I’ve read all day.
There is no cheat code for an MOA based system, like there is with MILS. The speed drop formula for elevation correction, as well as your gun or wind number for what your particular load is. Example: .1 MIL per 100 yards for ypur #. This can be found using a ballistic software program. You can also round up or round down to the first number in your G1 BC to find your #. It will get you very close to your number by using that method. Happy shooting you guys!
Hmm, you of been sleeping to miss MOA wind constant training.
I use moa but recently bought a mil reticle scope, mostly to try it out and cause the vortex razor from what I saw has a different reticle depending on mil vs moa, and I liked the mil reticle better
Appreciate the video guys
Problem with Mils is it’s only a measurement when looking through a scope. MOA is effectively just inches so it’s useful in other ways such as measuring accuracy.
@@alzee1750MOA is used to describe movement in inches at target distance a sight adjustment in MOA will make, i.e. 1inch at 100 yards, 2 inches at 200 yards and so on.
Mils are not only measured thru a scope. Mils can be used on a tripod adjustment.
I recently switched to mil. Just don’t have a good place really get familiar with it.
What yall think about the Nightforce NX8 2.5-20?
As far as fine point busy reticles are concerned, I'm all for them. But I'm with C_does in that a reticle should be usable throughout the entirety of a scopes magnification range. Unfortunately many MPVO christmas tree reticles such as what nightforce has on their nx8 is entirely worthless at its minimum magnification. If it at least hard a thicker horseshoe that disappeared at max magnification it would make a lot more sense
I don’t think either is really hard to use and go back and forth between them. Meaning if I have a BDC reticle like my LPVO from PA it’s in MOA. My long range rifle is in MILs since I will dial that one and is what I was taught on. I’ve also found I can range quicker with a MIL reticle If there is BDC
Mils in the scope on the gun + mils in the spotting scope = easy day!
I get the concept and understand why the PRS guys use the mil system but how do you range a standard IPSG (15"w x 18"L) or one MOA gong with a mil reticle?
I've been shooting moa for 40 years and I'm thinking about switching to mils just because the PRS matches are all pretty much using it and it seems like the top tier scopes are only offered in mils.
I mostly bench rest ELR so dialing is so much easier and more accurate at least for me.
Do you prefer to think in 1/4 based fractions or base 10 in 0.1 decimals? Pretty much all it boils down to.
It’s good to be proficient in both. My hunting rifles are all 1/4 MOA. GPR and precision bolt gun are 0.1 MRAD.
Mils seems like it would be easier because everything is divided or multiplied by 10 but I grew up with imperial system of measurements. It's effortless by calculating distances in feet and yards instead of centimeters and meters. That being said it is quicker turning the mils teret over moa teret
I want to learn MILS. I have two scopes. One is a Trac and the other is a primary arms. I have been watching numerous related videos on using a mil reticle but haven’t figured it out yet. I’m in Florida, Broward County. Where do you offer training and classes ?Thanks
11:20 Had to slow the video down to 1x speed, thought he said 70,000 rounds of 55/62/77 grain, etc… but it was “so many thousand”. Ok 😉
There is zero problem with MOA dials and mil reticle ever because the initial zero is a placeholder and thus the reticle in mils will be favored and held to target distance independent of dials. What you never want is mil dials and MOA reticle.
I bought a MIL scope because the MOA version was out of stock. It’s just a cheap Arken 6-24x anyway on my AR10.
What’s the longest range you guys have available to you that isn’t JTAC?
What's the scrim on the rifles in the background?
If you’re NOT using a ballistic calculator and/or higher power magnification (above 10x), MOA will get the job done and is easier for most people to extrapolate the math as you go to longer distances. You’re probably also planning to stop at mid-range, 5-600 yards, so any error in true MOA and “shooter” MOA won’t matter. Finally, if you’re planning on shooting with others who are using MOA it’s much more practical that you’re all on the same units. You don’t want people doing math or converting wind calls from MOA just for you.
HOWEVER, if you’re planning to use ballistic solvers (Kestrel, Hornady 4DOF, etc), which give results in decimal place regardless of unit, MIL is easier because you direct dial to the .1 instead of converting .1 to 1/4 values (eg 4.61 = 4 and 2 more clicks for 4.5). Also, even though MOA is a finer scale, this can be a problem with ballistic reticles because the dots or indications are closer together which can obscure more of the target and make them harder to read. Also, there are generally more options for grid/ranging reticles in MIL than MOA because of the adoption of MIL by the military.
I use 1/8 moa sfp for f class, .1 mil ffp for my prs style rifles. I push a button on my kestrel and it gives me a number and I turn the turret to match that number.
I think in inches so moa makes more sense to me is an irrelevant statement for anything other than talking about rifle capabilities: my rifle is a 3/4 moa rifle at 100 yards, I immediately know what that means. If you used mils instead, I would have to pause a second to figure it out.
Ranging with a reticle is a shit show, not every coyote is the same size. You are using an avg coyote size and it could be sitting down or there could be tall grass obscuring part of its legs or it could be a runt or extra large or you could be off a little in the mil/moa value that you measure in the reticle because the subtensions in the reticle are not that granular. For example most mil scopes have .2 mil hashes, what if the actual mil value is .234 but you use .24 in your ranging calculations. Stack all those errors on top of each other and you get into unethical territory at fairly mid ranges for taking shots at game animals. Just use a rangefinder.
The only real math that you need to do is calculating your wind hold, ex: at 500 yards, 5 mph is 1 mil, the wind is 7.5 mph so that is 1.5 mil hold. Oh I missed by .2 mil right, hold 1.3 mils instead of 1.5. Imo if you are on the clock, this is easier using mils. In f class I use the scoring rings for wind holds.
I prefer to use moa. 1 mil at 100 yards is roughly 3.6 inches. 1.047x3.4377=3.599 inches at 100 yards. 1/10 of 3.6 is .36. Therefore 1/4 moa (.25) is a smaller/finer adjustment than 1/10 mil. Not to mention my brain doesn’t see in meters and cm. I see in inches feet and yards. Not saying you should or shouldn’t. But there’s that
If you are just starting, go mil. There is better info and its just easier with the wind/drop cheat formulas.
Also weaponized math/gravity ballistics makes getting data out to 1000y really easy.
13:13 what kind of bag is being used here?
Opinions on razor 1-6 gen2e?
Love to see some bolt gun action on this topic.
What’s the technical term for spray n pray😂.
Florida shooters bringing the heat 🦫
I think the best way to look at this is not which one is better but to train with both. You never know when you have to pick up someone else’s rifle with a different type of reticle that you may have to use. The more you know, the more you know 😉
Do you teach a class on using MILS?
MOA reticles also have a BDC function as well as ranging function and both are more accurate than mil, that’s fact. MOA is boss, so learn it.
I use MRAD because I live in a country that is not the US. 😅
70k rounds of each bullet weight?? !! I feel so behind now 😮
Focus on rice & beans, you can loot drop ammo.
I initially thought he said the same, 😂 but he says “so many thousand” as in X, Y, Z amount of rounds in each weight.
Can someone please tell me the name of that stock he’s using on that mk12 in the very beginning?
One for the all mighty AlGoreRhythym💪🤙🇺🇸
Are your optics zeroed with range ammo or 77's?
¡Dalé Brandon!
I prefer MIL on long range guns and M0A on my hunting scopes.
Any recommendation for an entry level MIL scope?
Vortex Viper Gen2 2.5-10x
Primary Arms has some good offerings, their GLX line is probably your best bang for the buck.
@@TrueOpinion99 thank you very Much!
@@jeffledbetter29 thank you very much!
Were you being hyperbolic or do you actually have 210,000 rounds of 5.56 stored??
Y’all need to get a real Douglas SPR barrel on that mock 12 you’re doing yourself a disservice not having the real barrel with an AEM5 or OCM5 they’re so damn quiet and 0 point of impact shift they’re both amazing suppressors
You guys shoot suppressed ALOT. Do a vid on bolt, barrel wear from sustained suppressor use versus unsuppressed.
Bdc or mills
i prefer MOA, easy math for ranging, its just size of target ÷ MOA and that gets you close enough on most targets 😁 Size÷MOA×95.5 if i need more precision. also on bigger targets i can just use 1moa or .5 moa increments and not bother with .25 or .75 😁 easy. I dont really listen to other shooters at matches and we arnt allowed to be coached or spotted so lots of the advantages of Mils doesnt apply to me. ill get a Mil scope eventually but for now MOA is more convenient for me with the type of shooting i do 😁
Yup 1 or .5 moa only with left edge, right edge, top or bottom holds.
Mils all the way.
1/4 MOA Is a finer adjustment then 1/10 mil so you got that wrong. Turrets on scopes Don't care about MOA versus Mills. The internals Of this scope have a Maximum Adjustments. regardless If. It's mOA or Mills.. Mills are in tents so the math is easier. I will give you that. But MOA is a finer adjustment.
True. 1/4 MOA at 100 yards is about .25 inches. 1/10 mil is around .36 inches at 100 yards.
Mil
True MOA at 1.047 inches at 100 yards is only 10.47 inches at 1000 yards so substituting simple MOA for true MOA has ZERO consequence.
MIL's is a good idea. Range buddy can finally stop saying that I'm shooting 2 ford f150s high and give a standard measurement that makes sense. lol
👌🏼🏴🦍
I use mils because the internet said it was cool
MOA is simple if you know you know
I’m stupid. So I use MOA. One of my buddies who shoots long distance and can see equations floating in mid air like Beautiful Mind tried to explain Milrad and I immediately braindumped everything and gave up.
Moa
Mils are easier because it's base-10.
We really need to join the rest of the civilized world and switch to the metric system.
I always chuckle at myself when I see guys running MRAD but doing everything else in standard/imperial measurements.
No, no, and no again, it should not be a this vs that since ALL trained shooters know the value of both angular units of measurement. Turrets do not need to match reticle and in fact mil reticle and MOA dials are best for a multitude of reasons but typically the placeholder zero is dialed in MOA and then the mil reticle is used for ranging, target hold, and wind favor. There are no conversions ever. The range card serves to deliver mil wind favor from initial MOA wind constant formula, which means for exacting wind favor the MOA windage dial can give shooter the ability to get an exacting hold on target. Creds: Military Rifle Instructor assisting the USAMU deliver SDM, TTT, and SAFS training, US Distinguished Rifleman, and American High Power Rifleman in Long-Range. One more thing, BDC should always be annotated from the ballistics calculation for the cartridge entertained, period.
Dumbest comment awarded to this guy.
Mils for me now because all the tacticool guntubers say so...
Interesting that you equate mil-dot reticles with civilians who don't know how to shoot and MOA reticles with military. When the opposite is true. It's literally in the name, Mil-Dot which stands for miliradian and that is what was taught in the 1980s in the Marine corps..🤔
It's literally irrelevant for anything but resell. The vast majority of the community desires MILL given it's a more accurate unit of measure, so you'll have a fsr easier time selling a MILL optic vs MOA m.
What would be a better topic of discussion is FFP vs SFP. SFP shts on FFP at known distance. It's infinitely easier, and you're capable of getting far more precise shots with SFP but only at known distance. For anything needing range estimations SFP is completely worthless and FFP is king.
.25moa adjustment is more refined than .1mil adjustment fyi. .25 moa adjustment at 100 yards is ~.25 inches, while.1mil adjustment at 100 yards is .36inches. I'm not sure if MIL scopes get more refined than .1mil adjustments, but most I've used are either .1 or .2mil adjustments.
I usually agree with you guys, but not on this video. Seems like you don't work with MOA enough to see that it is easier to understand than MIL. But to each their own.
People are just bad with numbers. No shame
As a us citizen raised in imperial measurement i find moa very intuitive but the math is ridiculous.
So i would say if I'm working semi auto DMR or SPR doctrine (typically characterized by hold overs) I'd favor moa for quicker intuitive aiming.
For first round perfection, particularly on a bolt gun, mrad is simpler/superior IMHO.
Eww... a left handed sniper
Mils is king baby. I also use meters instead of yards as well. To me just superior for all things. Acogs use mils. Most military optics use mils. Some civi optics use mils with moa adjustment. I just go all mils and it’s all good 🇺🇸
Who cares, can you hit what you’re aiming at?
Mil Dot all day