IL-2: Battle of Moscow - Bf 109F-2 Back to IL-2 BoS/BoM and today we look at once of the three recent additions to the BoM beta, The Messerschmitt Bf 109F-2. I hope you enjoy!
+MagzTV Could you show off the p40? Have have been debating whether or not of getting IL2 and would like to know if the p40 would make it worth sinking $50 into
+MagzTV What do you mean the MG 151/20 has only 60 rounds of ammo? Are you sure you're not confusing it for the MG FF/M cannons which have 60 rounds? Because in War Thunder the F-1 has 60 rounds with FF/M, the F-2 has 200 with MG 151, and the F-4 has 200 with the MG 151/20. Same with this game.
+Lucian Willi No, I don't use WT as source material, I don't even take WT seriously anymore as you well know. Remeber the MG151/20 was not a factory fit gun to the F-2, It was a field modification and had to be installed through the DB 601N to fire from the prop hub. The same DB 601N from the 109 E-7. A gun never intended to be installed in the F-2s air-frame being installed through an engine never designed for the installation of that version of the 151 cannon. Ammo counts for field modded 151/20 F-2 are between 60 and 120 although good information is rare as again, It was a field mod and details where not heavily documented. 200 round 151/20s are not mentioned until the BF 109F-4 and upgraded F-2's featuring the DB 601E engine (F-2's upgraded to F-4 specs)
+meh -__- P40 is bom and as far as i'm aware the only way to play bom planes at this point in time is to have both bos and bom. otherwise you will have to wait (unless i'm completely wrong and bom is already available to those without bos)
Always love seeing more IL-2, liking the new intros with different sounds for different games too. Looking forward to the other aircraft you were talking about too
It's not a bug Magz, the 109 F2 had an MG151 wich had 200 rounds of ammo. The F1 had a MGFF/M cannon equal to the one on the Emils, and had 60 rounds of ammunition.
+JÄGER Hans Read the comments section. I've addressed this about 20 times so far. I have never found a single mention of the MG151/20 FIELD MODIFICATION (that parts important) of the F-2 that is to say the MG151/20 installed with the DB 601N engine from the E series not the 601E has 200 rounds. I have several books sitting here and the ammo count for that mod is mostly referred to as 60 with one document stating that one was fit with 120. All F-2's mention with 200 rounds featured the DB601E retrofit so where effectively F-4's not field mods. If you have a link to a document that stares the 151/20 DB601N field mod (Not the retrofit with the DB 601E) Has more than 60 or 120 rounds please feel free to link it.
Jumping in super late here, but: The F-2 with the 151/20 is probably meant as a retro-fit option which, in RL, wouldn't have been available at the time the F-2 first came out. IIRC the 20mm variant of the 151 cannon were developed in response to pilots (most prominently Adolf Galland) complaining that the 15mm cannon just wasn't enough. So there was no 151/20 around when the F-2 was first introduced, just the 151/15. And the 15 itself wasn't around in time when the F-series started, hence the F-1 with its FF engine-cannon. All that said: It wouldn't make much sense for an F-2 with a 151/20 (retrofit or factory-fit) to come with just 60 rounds of ammo. The 15 and the 20 are identical designs: The only differences are the chambering, the barrel-length and bore and possibly some minor internal details having to do with differences in gas pressures, etc. Both guns were belt-fed while the FF-cannon was drum-feed only. The 20mm shells weren't vastly bigger than the 15s either, so if there was room for 200 15mm shells, there was room for 200 20mm shells (which indeed there was on every 109 that came with a 151/20). From what I'm able to find on the web (don't have access to my 109 books ATM :( ), the 151/15 was generally phased out by the LW by 1943 and planes that carried it were upgraded to the 151/20. Which could be a plausible scenario for an F-2 with the 20mm: An older plane that had its main gun brought up to date. Whether or not there would've been issues with the F-2's engine and the 20mm cannon, I cannot say ATM, but common sense seems to suggest that if the 151/15 with 200 rounds of 15mm fit the F-2 there shouldn't be a reason why the 151/20 with 200 20mm shells wouldn't fit.
It's not a bug :) F1 had 20mm MG-FF with drum for 60 bullets. F2 field mod had identical cannon as F4 20mm MG151 with 200 bullets. :) They are 2 completely different 20mm cannons.
i'm surprised, when i flew the F-2 (right after release) the 15mm was great, caused a lot of fires, many pilot kills and critical hits. Maybe they changed something in the new patch anyhow, looking forwad to the Ju-88 as well. Maybe i'll see you online on occasion :)
+HerrStein Yet to have it spark a fire, Ive ripped holes from wingtip to wingtip across aircraft but all they do it leak. It feels barely more punchy than the 7.92's that fire along side it.
+MagzTV i hope i do not annoy you with that, but the issues you just mentioned here sound strangly familiar from another place we know. Also the ignoring of this issue for quite some time ... No need to change the game I fear :(
+Rubén Vivo Always, At the moment I haven't had tome to cover a subscriber replay and the few moments where I have had time its been directly after a patch that has broken the replays that had been sent.
Magz, have you ever tried the Bf 109 K-4 in DCS? Well, I do love them, the 109s, but the K-4 is a bit difficult to fly, at least in high speeds, it doesn't have aileron trim, and you loose the control at 650km/h, which isn't cool. Does the F-2 have the same problem?
+Vitor Moura Yeah I own it, And the D9. I actually have almost every DCS module, I'm slowly getting around to getting them all on channel. No 109 ever built ever had Aileron trim. You just need to apply constant roll against the engine torque while flying. You can take the K4 in DCS past 650 without loosing control it just requires practice.
where did you got the information from that the Mg151/20mm on the F2 should only have 60rnds of amo? As far as i know the Mg151/20mm when used as motorkannone on the prop hub had also 200rnds. The 20mm with only 60rnds was the Mg-FF the same one that was equipt on the F1 and on the E-series. Correct me if i am wrong, but thats what i know
+charlie19988991 Every mention I've seen for the MG151/20 on the F-2 (Only the F-2) in my books on this end only mention 60 rounds although some also mention 120, 200 rounds only shows from the F-4 and up. Regardless of the ammo load the larger problem is that the MG 151/20 seems to not activate when selected from the mods list and the 15mm is not very good.
+MagzTV Damn, I'm hoping to get the game once I get my computer sorted.. Need to RMA the Motherboard because the PCI-E slots were broken. Also need to get a flight stick. Anyway, you probably don't care XD Keep up the great work :)
If i was ever to build a plane in real life, it'd be one of these, actually, it'd be an E series Messerschmitt. These planes have always been my favourite, i like this ones looks, but the E fly's better and is lighter. (apparently)
Adolph Galland refused to fly this plane as long as he could get parts for his 109 e because of the guns issue. There is a famous quote he made about it. Do you know what it is Mags? It's in his book. "The first and the Last"
+Toasty Roasty Man I don't own the book but I have flipped its paged before so I don't know what quote you are speaking off. I do remember that he had a rather down opinion of the 15mm himself and was one of the first to fit a 151/20 into an F-2. I think he also had one F2 modified to take MG/FF cannons in the wing roots like the earlier E series.
Sorry mags, thinking about the quote it was about the Fw-190 in comparison to the Me-109 ..."Broad sword and Rapier" I will leave it to you to figure out which is which. :) Galland was so down on this gun set up he complained bitterly to the High Command calling it a retrograde move and refused to fly the earliest f2 versions. I do believe he eventually had one modified as you said.
+Toasty Roasty Man He had one modified to have two MGFF/Ms in the wings - one per wing. He flew the F-2 before that and complained about the destructive potential of a single MG151 - not of the MG151 itself, but in the context of it's singular installment on the 109. Almost all criticism you hear about the MG151 from pilots should be taken in context of there being only a single one in the Bf 109 F-2.
He never refused to fly it. In fact he understood the advantages of the F series over the E if the actual aircraft is concerned. Of course, the E also had certain advantages over the F, but performance wise esp. once the more powerful DB 601E would be installed, the road was set. On the weapons however, he wanted to see change. Absolutely right in that regard. The F series was the next step and had to be tested. And test it Galland did - which means he had to fly it. Thus, he flew it, critiqued it and added modifications; example one with 2 extra MGFF/Ms and one with 2 MG 131 instead of the MG 17s. These aircraft would be superior to the Emils in most regards. His tests were ignored/never saw evaluation as the /20 was introduced.
+Bacon Crusader IL-2 is a series of games not a single title. So no this is not the one on the PS3, From what I understand the one on PS3 was an arcade game more like WT and an actual simulator, This is a simulator.
+ofiterpunte I had one of those. It broke in 3 days, Cracked at the base. Sent it back, Got a replacement ordered in. It's sensor failed in a week and a half. Sent it back again and ordered the X-55, Not a single issue with it in over a year of flying. I know its popular to hate on Saitek products and treat Thustmaster like gods gift to the simulation community but honestly I haven't had an issue with my X-55 or any other Saitek product I have owned. Of the handful of Thrustmaster products I have had all of them have given me nothing but failure after failure. I won't be touching Thrustmaster again unless I plan on getting a Warthog, Ive heard enough about the $1000AUD flagship of the Thurstmaster fleet to trust at least it wont give me an issue.
+ofiterpunte Ahh yes, VKB sim. I'm hoping to be able to get my hands on there "Gunfighter" if and when it becomes available in the future. There gear is very expensive and very hard to get your hands on however I have heard fantastic things about the "Fat Mamba MKIII"
+Rangzar No, But the Russian cannons are also no more powerful than the German guns. This has led a few people to assume that the shells may not be bugged but may be soft balanced for Multiplayer.
![ตีสิบเดย์ [FULL] | เปิดใจ "อาจารย์ เบียร์ ฅนตื่นธรรม" นักสนทนาธรรมสายดุดัน!](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/vqaBI_mnoDk/mqdefault.jpg)
IL-2: Battle of Moscow - Bf 109F-2
Back to IL-2 BoS/BoM and today we look at once of the three recent additions to the BoM beta, The Messerschmitt Bf 109F-2.
I hope you enjoy!
+MagzTV Could you show off the p40? Have have been debating whether or not of getting IL2 and would like to know if the p40 would make it worth sinking $50 into
+MagzTV What do you mean the MG 151/20 has only 60 rounds of ammo? Are you sure you're not confusing it for the MG FF/M cannons which have 60 rounds? Because in War Thunder the F-1 has 60 rounds with FF/M, the F-2 has 200 with MG 151, and the F-4 has 200 with the MG 151/20. Same with this game.
+Lucian Willi No, I don't use WT as source material, I don't even take WT seriously anymore as you well know.
Remeber the MG151/20 was not a factory fit gun to the F-2, It was a field modification and had to be installed through the DB 601N to fire from the prop hub. The same DB 601N from the 109 E-7. A gun never intended to be installed in the F-2s air-frame being installed through an engine never designed for the installation of that version of the 151 cannon. Ammo counts for field modded 151/20 F-2 are between 60 and 120 although good information is rare as again, It was a field mod and details where not heavily documented. 200 round 151/20s are not mentioned until the BF 109F-4 and upgraded F-2's featuring the DB 601E engine (F-2's upgraded to F-4 specs)
+meh -__- In my honest opinion, if you are only interested in a single plane then BoS/M is not worth the full price.
+meh -__- P40 is bom and as far as i'm aware the only way to play bom planes at this point in time is to have both bos and bom. otherwise you will have to wait (unless i'm completely wrong and bom is already available to those without bos)
Always love seeing more IL-2, liking the new intros with different sounds for different games too. Looking forward to the other aircraft you were talking about too
It's not a bug Magz, the 109 F2 had an MG151 wich had 200 rounds of ammo. The F1 had a MGFF/M cannon equal to the one on the Emils, and had 60 rounds of ammunition.
+JÄGER Hans Read the comments section. I've addressed this about 20 times so far. I have never found a single mention of the MG151/20 FIELD MODIFICATION (that parts important) of the F-2 that is to say the MG151/20 installed with the DB 601N engine from the E series not the 601E has 200 rounds. I have several books sitting here and the ammo count for that mod is mostly referred to as 60 with one document stating that one was fit with 120. All F-2's mention with 200 rounds featured the DB601E retrofit so where effectively F-4's not field mods.
If you have a link to a document that stares the 151/20 DB601N field mod (Not the retrofit with the DB 601E) Has more than 60 or 120 rounds please feel free to link it.
a tip : watch series on flixzone. Me and my gf have been using them for watching all kinds of movies during the lockdown.
@Henry Castiel yup, have been using Flixzone for since december myself :D
Jumping in super late here, but:
The F-2 with the 151/20 is probably meant as a retro-fit option which, in RL, wouldn't have been available at the time the F-2 first came out. IIRC the 20mm variant of the 151 cannon were developed in response to pilots (most prominently Adolf Galland) complaining that the 15mm cannon just wasn't enough. So there was no 151/20 around when the F-2 was first introduced, just the 151/15. And the 15 itself wasn't around in time when the F-series started, hence the F-1 with its FF engine-cannon.
All that said: It wouldn't make much sense for an F-2 with a 151/20 (retrofit or factory-fit) to come with just 60 rounds of ammo. The 15 and the 20 are identical designs: The only differences are the chambering, the barrel-length and bore and possibly some minor internal details having to do with differences in gas pressures, etc. Both guns were belt-fed while the FF-cannon was drum-feed only. The 20mm shells weren't vastly bigger than the 15s either, so if there was room for 200 15mm shells, there was room for 200 20mm shells (which indeed there was on every 109 that came with a 151/20).
From what I'm able to find on the web (don't have access to my 109 books ATM :( ), the 151/15 was generally phased out by the LW by 1943 and planes that carried it were upgraded to the 151/20. Which could be a plausible scenario for an F-2 with the 20mm: An older plane that had its main gun brought up to date. Whether or not there would've been issues with the F-2's engine and the 20mm cannon, I cannot say ATM, but common sense seems to suggest that if the 151/15 with 200 rounds of 15mm fit the F-2 there shouldn't be a reason why the 151/20 with 200 20mm shells wouldn't fit.
It's not a bug :) F1 had 20mm MG-FF with drum for 60 bullets. F2 field mod had identical cannon as F4 20mm MG151 with 200 bullets. :) They are 2 completely different 20mm cannons.
i know this is a Old comment but F2 Uses MG151 15mm cannon or machine gun whatever it is not a 20mm MG151 used by F4 and later ones
@@nodoqutashvili7589 You are correct. Still MG151/15 is closer to 151/20 with it's ballistic parameters and ammo feed.
I love learning from you Magz, adore seeing simulator content from you, and I really loved the ending music :) Keep it up!
Extremely enjoyable for the love of entertainment keep up the good work!
i love your IL2 videos, your the reason im actually starting to get into flight sims, hey i might end up getting IL2 and see you in the skys ;D
Damn, I'm actually quite early on a video, awesome video! Love it.
The upgunned F-2 sounds like Galland's steed.
congratz with 37k Magz!
+Telsion Thanks mate, Slowly ticking up.
MagzTV hell yes, and you deserve it :D
Yay more Il 2!
i'm surprised, when i flew the F-2 (right after release) the 15mm was great, caused a lot of fires, many pilot kills and critical hits. Maybe they changed something in the new patch
anyhow, looking forwad to the Ju-88 as well. Maybe i'll see you online on occasion :)
+HerrStein Yet to have it spark a fire, Ive ripped holes from wingtip to wingtip across aircraft but all they do it leak. It feels barely more punchy than the 7.92's that fire along side it.
I have to check it again in the new version. Didn't have much time for flying last two weeks. This sounds really discomforting
The standard 20 mm cannon had 150 shells. So 200 for the 15 mm makes sense.
+MagzTV i hope i do not annoy you with that, but the issues you just mentioned here sound strangly familiar from another place we know.
Also the ignoring of this issue for quite some time ...
No need to change the game I fear :(
Hi Magz, mind if I ask you something?
Are you still checking the Replay mail? Can we expect any other replay video soon?
+Rubén Vivo Always, At the moment I haven't had tome to cover a subscriber replay and the few moments where I have had time its been directly after a patch that has broken the replays that had been sent.
Magz, have you ever tried the Bf 109 K-4 in DCS? Well, I do love them, the 109s, but the K-4 is a bit difficult to fly, at least in high speeds, it doesn't have aileron trim, and you loose the control at 650km/h, which isn't cool. Does the F-2 have the same problem?
+Vitor Moura Yeah I own it, And the D9. I actually have almost every DCS module, I'm slowly getting around to getting them all on channel.
No 109 ever built ever had Aileron trim. You just need to apply constant roll against the engine torque while flying. You can take the K4 in DCS past 650 without loosing control it just requires practice.
MagzTV Ohh I forgot that giveaway video that you were flying the K-4. I'll fly it again and see what I can do, thank you Magz.
where did you got the information from that the Mg151/20mm on the F2 should only have 60rnds of amo? As far as i know the Mg151/20mm when used as motorkannone on the prop hub had also 200rnds. The 20mm with only 60rnds was the Mg-FF the same one that was equipt on the F1 and on the E-series. Correct me if i am wrong, but thats what i know
+charlie19988991 Every mention I've seen for the MG151/20 on the F-2 (Only the F-2) in my books on this end only mention 60 rounds although some also mention 120, 200 rounds only shows from the F-4 and up. Regardless of the ammo load the larger problem is that the MG 151/20 seems to not activate when selected from the mods list and the 15mm is not very good.
+charlie19988991 i was about to make the same comment!
It's funny how F-2 have the same problem in IL-2 as in War Thunder.
+Timur Pirkhal What is more funny is that you are fighting Yak-3's.
+Scarecrow Well, didn't F-2's battle Yak-3's?
Timur Pirkhal No, G-6's, G-10's, K4's.
+Scarecrow Actually, yeah, what the hell, Yak-3's first flight is marked for 1943. The battle of Moscow is dated to 1942.
+Present Moment Le What sir?
This game looks so pretty.
+Valentino Zoboli That's not maximum graphics either.
+MagzTV Damn, I'm hoping to get the game once I get my computer sorted.. Need to RMA the Motherboard because the PCI-E slots were broken. Also need to get a flight stick. Anyway, you probably don't care XD Keep up the great work :)
If i was ever to build a plane in real life, it'd be one of these, actually, it'd be an E series Messerschmitt. These planes have always been my favourite, i like this ones looks, but the E fly's better and is lighter. (apparently)
E series is my personnel favorite as well.
what's the name of the outro song?
Adolph Galland refused to fly this plane as long as he could get parts for his 109 e because of the guns issue. There is a famous quote he made about it. Do you know what it is Mags? It's in his book. "The first and the Last"
+Toasty Roasty Man I don't own the book but I have flipped its paged before so I don't know what quote you are speaking off. I do remember that he had a rather down opinion of the 15mm himself and was one of the first to fit a 151/20 into an F-2. I think he also had one F2 modified to take MG/FF cannons in the wing roots like the earlier E series.
Sorry mags, thinking about the quote it was about the Fw-190 in comparison to the Me-109
..."Broad sword and Rapier"
I will leave it to you to figure out which is which. :)
Galland was so down on this gun set up he complained bitterly to the High Command calling it a retrograde move and refused to fly the earliest f2 versions.
I do believe he eventually had one modified as you said.
+Toasty Roasty Man He had one modified to have two MGFF/Ms in the wings - one per wing. He flew the F-2 before that and complained about the destructive potential of a single MG151 - not of the MG151 itself, but in the context of it's singular installment on the 109. Almost all criticism you hear about the MG151 from pilots should be taken in context of there being only a single one in the Bf 109 F-2.
All I know is that galland didn't like it and refused to fly it till it was upgraded. :)
He never refused to fly it. In fact he understood the advantages of the F series over the E if the actual aircraft is concerned. Of course, the E also had certain advantages over the F, but performance wise esp. once the more powerful DB 601E would be installed, the road was set. On the weapons however, he wanted to see change. Absolutely right in that regard. The F series was the next step and had to be tested. And test it Galland did - which means he had to fly it. Thus, he flew it, critiqued it and added modifications; example one with 2 extra MGFF/Ms and one with 2 MG 131 instead of the MG 17s. These aircraft would be superior to the Emils in most regards. His tests were ignored/never saw evaluation as the /20 was introduced.
il-2 is this the same version they brought out for ps3?? or is this something completely different ??
+Bacon Crusader IL-2 is a series of games not a single title. So no this is not the one on the PS3, From what I understand the one on PS3 was an arcade game more like WT and an actual simulator, This is a simulator.
Hey Magz what joystick do you use? Do you think I could get into IL2 with a saitek X55?
+Nathaniel Brosnihan I use an X-55, One of the best budget spit throttle HoTaS on the market.
+ofiterpunte I had one of those. It broke in 3 days, Cracked at the base. Sent it back, Got a replacement ordered in. It's sensor failed in a week and a half. Sent it back again and ordered the X-55, Not a single issue with it in over a year of flying.
I know its popular to hate on Saitek products and treat Thustmaster like gods gift to the simulation community but honestly I haven't had an issue with my X-55 or any other Saitek product I have owned. Of the handful of Thrustmaster products I have had all of them have given me nothing but failure after failure. I won't be touching Thrustmaster again unless I plan on getting a Warthog, Ive heard enough about the $1000AUD flagship of the Thurstmaster fleet to trust at least it wont give me an issue.
+ofiterpunte Ahh yes, VKB sim. I'm hoping to be able to get my hands on there "Gunfighter" if and when it becomes available in the future. There gear is very expensive and very hard to get your hands on however I have heard fantastic things about the "Fat Mamba MKIII"
I'm not sure I ever managed to get a kill with mine in war thunder. That says a lot tbh.
+mickeybill I got over 200 in war thunder lol... It's a really good plane. Just learn to aim the 151.
Do the russian guns suffer from the same problems?
+Rangzar No, But the Russian cannons are also no more powerful than the German guns. This has led a few people to assume that the shells may not be bugged but may be soft balanced for Multiplayer.
How do you feel about games like Wat Thunder having the nazi suasticas censured?
+Jonny Fodaw Don't care, Have them or don't have them. Its all the same to me.