You should reload the sickle somewhat regularly, in all the clips you showed you had max ammo. If you want to keep firing, reload, you are allowed to reload the sickle whenever you feel like it
Yeah, in panic situations I just mag dump my Sickle. There's usually enough ammo lying around in POI or Resupply to fill her up. Even in panic situations tho I never go beyond eating up 2 mags so far.
All liberators need a 45 round mag. That means concussive and penetrator need to go from 30 to 45. I actually don't mind the concussive, the mag is just way, way too small. The penetrator may need more love, but id start with the mag size.
Even with 60 round mags and 10 spare mags carried they wouldn't be OP at all. They'd just be closer to being on par with the better weapons in the game.
I honestly feel like it needs to be like this. Lib-Con: 40 round, small fire rate increase. Base liberator: 50-55-60 round mag. Lib-Carbine: 60 round mag minimum, maybe literally 1 less recoil, and possibly higher damage than normal liberator with a more severe damage falloff at range to make SENSE with it's shorter barrel, as well as in comparison with it's normal brother's ability to have an up-to 100m scope and high accuracy. Lib-Pen: NEEDS LOVE. Needs damage, needs at least 40 rounds per mag, if not 45. And for the Adjudicator and Tenderizer. Tendy needs it's 35 round mag back, as well as being given back one of the mags that was taken away. And the Adjudicator needs to go up to 35 or 40 itself.
The guns are true to life. So if they were to increase the mag size, they would have to edit the model in a way that may look cartoony with a giant mag sticking out of it. It would be easier if they reduced ttk on most enemies.
@@jonathondurst5980 Why do the guns have to be true to life in a game that is not true to life in any other way? It also just isn't true because (Plasma gun, shoulder mounted autocannon, laser guns, shield packpacks, so on)
I agree on the sickle points I used to use it all the time but after a while I found the charge up was getting me killed by hunters who leap across postal codes to kobe me. while I tend to run the blitzer for its shear utility I often find myself using the tenderizer now its a very fun weapon and makes quick work of the flying rats.
@@tgs9740 not really the sickles spin up time proves to be a issue when fighting an enemy that presses W. on bots its great but there are much better options for bugs.
Addendum: on the Adjudicator/Tenderizer/Carbine the reload time becomes significant. The Adj has a 3.0/1.7s reload The Tenderizer has a 3.3/2.2s reload The Liberators have 3.0/2.0s reload. That means the Tenderizer is going to have the most downtime in horde situations, while the Ask, if you manage your reloads, will feel a lot more available. I think with the Adj having good breakpoints against the bugs and medium pen, probably edges it out above the Tenderizer and Carbine for me. But I absolutely love the Carbine. I'm probably going to run it again tonight.
my go to AR against Bugs are Adjudicator, Cuncossive and the standard Liberator. Adjudi can handle the bugs with armored heads, Cuncossive is fun for kicking around the bugs an dismember them. Liberator felt alway simply reliable good handeling not to fast or slow just a good sturdy gun. I typically take the Supply Backpack with me together with medium/heavy MG or Grenade Launcher, together with the new 3barrel shotgun. In the end its depens what you are taking with you and for that waht kind of weapons complements eachother for your Loadout. in case you didnt already made one i would like to hear you opinions about the shotguns, i believe igot some not so common opinions for them, like how i feel like the Breaker S&P works BETTER agains BOTS then bugs, i know sounds wierd. i gonna look up what else you got on your channel.
The sickle has amazing accuracy and with its practically unlimited ammo. You can chew through hordes of bugs. You just gotta aim for the head. The gun has basically zero sway and zero recoil. Use that 100m scope it has and just aim for those headshots. Even the bile spewers don't take many shots to the face before they die.
The best assault rifle in Helldivers 2 isn't even in this list. It's the Stalwart. And with the new Peak Physique armour perk, even the medium machine gun can basically be played like an assault rifle while also being s-tier.
Why use stalwart if MG-43 is straight better + feels as good with new fixed armor perk? I mean really, why? You can't penetrate medium armor with Stalwart at all and deal HALF damage against light armor. MG-43 can pen medium enemies (hive guards and spewers say hello) and deals full damage vs light armor. If you are ready to control recoil and tap fire - HMG is even better. But I prefer MG-43. Don't get the Stalwart hype. Any medium armored bug will be your problem.
@@erniegang8127 yes, but stationary reload with MG is now much faster that you almost don't feel it Idk, maybe it's just me. I don't like light pen weapons that much
My personal AR tier List for Bugs: S: None A: Adjudicator( For the Adjudicator its clear its the best AR in the game right now. It has medium pen, which is a massive bonus but also has great damage per shot and a good scope.) / Tenderizer( The Tenderizer is extremely good but limited by lack of armor pen and ammo count) B: Lib Carbine(Lib Carbine has great DPS and shreds up close but again lacks accuracy at range and total ammo count) / Sickle(Sickle doesn't lack in any aspect as it can expend more shots than any AR something close to double what most ARs can fire per mag, along with great accuracy. I can see why burst firing can hinder this gun you don't need to burst with this gun cause of its accuracy and the spin up is short.) / Lib Pen(The Lib Pen now has full auto with slightly lower damage and ammo than the base Liberator but makes up for it with higher crit damage along with medium armor pen. It has a very ammo/time efficient TTK as long as you have good accuracy) / Liberator(Basic but very usable and gets the job done with no major drawbacks besides ammo) c: None D: Lib Concussive(I understand the utility aspect behind this gun however that does not make it up its short comings when it comes its general time to kill being fucking abysmal. Even after the nerf its still an inferior Pummeler for no reason) I agree that none of the ARs are S tier, most just do not have the mag size nor the total ammo capacity to push them to S tier IMO.
Here is my take on how to buff the ARs AR-23 Liberator Damage: 60 -> 70 Rate of Fire: 640 -> 700 Spare Mags: 7 -> 9 Recoil: No Change (15) Penetration: Light Keep the mag size, 45 is already above average (that is 30) and its not a pocket light machinegun to have 75-100 round drum mags AR-23P Liberator Penetrator Damage: 45 -> 65 (the least damage falloff over distance due to the very long barrel) Rate of Fire: 640 -> 700 Spare Mags: 10 -> 12 Recoil: 19 -> 15 Penetration: Medium Keep mag size AR-23C Liberator Concussive Damage: 65 -> 75 Rate of Fire: 320 -> 600 Spare Mags: 10 -> 12 Recoil: 28 -> 25 Penetration: Light Keep mag size Give it back the Explosive trait and change its name back to AR-23E Liberator Explosive, it was a mistake taking it away to begin with AR-23A Liberator Carbine Damage: 60 -> 65 (increased damage falloff over range due to shorter barrel) Rate of Fire: 920 -> 900 Spare Mags: 7 -> 9 Recoil: 26 -> 20 Penetration: Light Keep mag size AR(BR)-61 Tenderizer Damage: No Change (95) Durable Damage: 22 -> 25 Rate of Fire: No Change (600) Spare Mags: 7 -> 8 Recoil: 10 -> 20 Penetration: Light Increase mag size from 30 to 35 Make a separate weapon category marked as "Battle Rifles" and put it there BR-14 Adjudicator Damage: 80 -> 85 Durable Damage: 16 -> 20 Rate of Fire: 550 -> 600 Spare Mags: No Change (8) Recoil: 40 -> 25 Penetration: Medium Increase Mag size from 30 to 35 Make a separate weapon category marked as "Battle Rifles" and put it there My take: The problem is not the mag sizes, but the subpar damage output compared to other options, its just how much time does it take to kill something, even trough weakspots
Yeah if one of these guns needs a buff, it’s gotta be the penetrator. Give it a solid 55 damage. Just below the default liberator. Add on a better fire rate and you’ll have a nice blend of armor cracking potential, decent (though still not amazing) damage, and a more forgiving fire rate to somewhat help damage output. The gun will still have a damage rate that isn’t the best but it will be very consistent.
My favorite gun in the game by far is the SG-225 Breaker. When talking specifically about Assault Rifles though, my favorite and go to guns are the AR-23 Liberator and the AR-23P Liberator Penetrator. I think both the Liberator and Liberator Penetrator are both way better than the guy in the video gives them credit for. In my opinion I'd put the basic AR-23 Liberator up at S Tier and the AR-23P Liberator Penetrator at either S Tier or A Tier at the very least specifically because it comes with more ammo and destroys medium armor enemies.
The new liberator could use a faster reload or a longer clip but it is pretty fun imo I don’t use it much but I’ve actually brought it for the bots just to clear chaff because bot chaff is really high these days
Good timing on this video. X) Been trying to find something other than the Blitzer to use (No, I don't like the Incendiary Breaker). Been liking the Adjudicator, tho I am very reliant on the Supply Backpack cause good grief there is not enough ammo for Bugs. Also I feel that only the medium penetration ARs are useful against the Bugs. Used to use the Lib Pen a lot, it can get rid of spewers quickly by shooting them in the face with the medium penetration. But the Adjudicator does that too and hits harder, so that is my new favorite. However, against the Bots the basic Liberator and especially the Tenderizor have been performing pretty well for me.
Honestly I want to like the Liberator-Pen but it just is not good enough, I could only see myelf using it if it could punch through heavy armor with it's other stats the way they are. That might sound ridculous but for those that do not know, keep in mind that when armor pen is equal to the armor it's hitting it does half damage. It takes a FULL CLIP of 30 rounds to kill a hive guard i you use the 'advantage' of the Penetrator and shoot it in the head, or nearly a full clip if you go for brain destruction and wait for the bleed out, whic is dangerous because they seem much harder to hit with melee to push them back than Warriors or Brood commanders. In comparison, the normal Lib/Carbine can pop terminid warrior heads in a 3 shot burst, and down to only 2 bullets if they are within 25 meters. The Diligence (normal one) does it in one round, the peacemaker starter pistol takes 2 rounds to do it. The liberator penerator CAN pop warrior heads in 3, might be able to do it in 2 due to the armor pen aiding it. But that doesn't change that in all of those cases it is being beaten by the opposition in ammo economy. And it's especially beaten out when it comes to your mags lifespan. And the Peacemaker Pistol might seem an unfair comparison but the reason I made it is that 1: It's widely considered worse than the redeemer by people. 2: I like it and use it, and as someone who uses my side arm pragmatically there is value in having to not even waste primary ammo to kill 7 terminid warriors.
Just increase the mag size and a little bit of the damage. Tenderizer should be at 60 rounds, same for the carbine. The liberator at 50 rounds at 80 damage. Adjudicator raise to 110 damage. The other ARs 45 rounds at around 70 to 80 damage. Should make ARs more useful like in original Halo.
Putting any assault rifle in A tier is just a baffling choice to me. I'd say the best AR right now is the regular liberator, and it would be a C tier. My idea of C tier is "servicable, but not ideal". B tier would be something like the breaker, Dominator or Scorcher that is better than most other choices but has issues, either with ammo or with crosshair move speed. A tier would be weapons like the Icendiary breaker, which does a ton of damage against low level bugs while having a minor drawback (crap against stalkers and when you need to get rid of a powerful close up enemy who is going to kill or stun you). S Tier would be the old breaker, with its 23 round magazine and incredible damage at both close and medium range. It was so damn fun when that weapon still existed... I don't care much for balance. In this game no matter how good a primary weapon is, its only ever going to be a tool for clearing out weaker enemies. It doesn't matter so much if a weapon is good at clearing them, because a single airstrike or cluster bomb will do far more than a weapon can ever hope to manage. I'd much rather have weapons that are fun to use and don't leave you feeling frustrated and underpowered. the 30 or 45 rounds are not an issue if this was a game that pitted you against other human players like fps games. But this game puts you up against endless hordes of enemies, so having weapons that spend three seconds firing and then need two or three seconds reloading is just not fun. Assault rifles should be more like the stalwart imo- plenty of ammo, fast firing without too much recoil, but weak against armor.
I find Assault rifles generally less effective against bugs and more suited for Bots. I find Base liberator generally the best option due to ammo and reload. They're primarily to remove Chaff, Defend against Hunters and Stalkers, and create personal Space. Shotguns do this generally better. "I don't like how the windup time on the sickle feels, therefore it SUCKS." Good design that drawback is real and balances the gun properly. I cannot stand high recoil. and yes. Sickle has lowest Durability Damage of all Firearms. but shooting durable parts is a Bad Idea TM for every weapon!
i like how the scythe isn't even on this list, it bellow poop hate for me. IMO energy weapons like the scythe and sickle should have an option to increase damage at the cost of faster overheat, it would be a nice mechanic.
Well, devs position on that is either you take support weapon that can clear hordes (flamethrower, machinegun, grenade launcher) or take support weapon that deals with heavy armor + stratagems to compensate in what you're lacking. Primaries are very limited and designed to protect you for limited amount of time vs limited amount of enemies
You should be judging all the guns the same either on their own merits or how they work in a loadout. Either way, most of them suck, but you're not using the sickle properly; it should be paired with an ammo efficient sidearm so you can shoot while it's cooling down. There's no way in helldivers it's worse than the default gun. And the Carbine being put up with the top two, I mean, come on...
yeah sickle is absolutely amazing with its reliability. dont even forget about how you can fire 90 shots before reloading or stopping to cool down it makes me feel like i have no ammo switching to other weapons
None, it’s the incendiary shotgun or nothing. Although to be fair I haven’t tried all weapons with bugs but there’s are 4 guns left for me to unlock and I will say nothing compares yet…. I really wish they did though.
So this guy makes an S tier weapon C tier... Lol there are Soo many great things on sickle that i think this is just you wanting to look like Guy who played hd2 training mission. What i agree on Is cooldown, everything else is straight up bs. Very fast fire ráže, can kill stalker before he destroy your shield, have zero recoil compared to every other ar, unlimited ammo, light armor pen... Sickle Is S tier. Only way someone say Its C is skill issue, tbh i thought i will never say skill issue, but you made me say something i hate, good job. Also idk if you considder this, but you could count in the scythe. I know Its not an ar per say, but i would love to see, if someone actually use it at all.
They all suck. Still. Everything in the liberator line needs to be 100 round drum mags. You carry less total mags but are in the fight for more than twice the time.
Best answer none are good I played them extensively on pug groups and organised groups there only ok with organised orbitals for heavy breaches for pug groups there awful your screwed in nearly all heavy fights you will spend 90 % running away reloading if your new just use shotguns and take the dog laser as back up assault rifles need an extra 5 or 10 damage and and extra 10 in the clip my reasoning for sacking this game off is the weapons are ass to use apart from the blitzer plasma punisher or breaker incendery everything else is lacking there’s no fun because you need the same shit every match and the ship is not worth levelling up to grind 5% of anything to grind out hours and hours 😂 no thanks 🙂↔️
I feel the sickle is justified and really is up to personal preference it’s either a C or an S tier weapon I personally love it and would give it an S but I understand why you would give it a C it’s just not for everyone
I think you figured out that the “buffs” really didn’t matter because durable damage is so irrelevant. The major issue is the base damage. Assault rifles should be doing around 100 to actually feel useful. Of course, all other weapons should scale similarly. Guns feel bad because you just tickle enemies while in constant reload animations.
You are either shooting bodies or using the wrong gun against targets. Light pen rifles are useful vs medium enemies BECAUSE they can destroy limbs and explosive parts. The AR buff made the AR stratagems, Liberator, and Concussive much better. Guns only feel weak when you are applying them to the wrong parts of enemies or when you have no guns that effect medium armor vs enemies with no destroyable limbs with light armor. Do you know that armor plates get compromised? Test with the Senator on bugs and when you see the Brood Lord head plate damaged, swap to your AR. You aren't understanding how pen and durable DMG work, and because of that you aren't learning weak points or how to pick a load out.
@@Brokentwobutton You just don't understand. Let me break it down for you Barney style. ARs feel bad because damage bad. Even shooting unarmored/light armored sections feels bad because damage bad. If you only kill a few mobs out of a swarm each mag, you just take a better gun like the incendiary breaker. Durable damage is irrelevant. Go look up when durable damage is applied then look at the bugs that even have a relevant durable section and %. Congrats, you found the spewer/charger/titan. AR were complete trash at that before the buff and only mostly trash now. Yay, quite the buff. You really have no idea how damage works in this game.
I mean: A) hes playing at 7 and higher you can literally see it B) the enemies have the same hp and dmg at lvl 1 as they do at lvl 9 so not sure were your point has any merit. C) he makes decent points. I fully understand you're a sickle simp thats why youre malding so badly but didnt say you can only use xyz just that objectively from a neutral stand point this is his tier list
7-8-9, the red difficulty’s. At first I was thinking hey let people play what they want, but then I realized that yeah his ranking might not be accurate AT ALL on lower difficulty’s. Like every gun seems S tier on difficultly 3, but the drawbacks and advantages of guns start to show when you bring them on higher difficulty’s
Pretty sure the difficulty would be to test weapons but it's clear you're one of those sissy fanboys who will gawk gawk and defend everything, even when it's trash.
Sickle shines on both fronts in a sense but depends on how you use it. Sickle can dumpfire and you should use up the heatsink if you have to but having near infinite ammo means you can afford to take on a lot of chaff which bugs usually spawns in bunches. For bots, the cooling down isn't as bad because you can simply swap weapon and wait behind cover while it cools which most bugs chase you out of cover while most bots will keep shooting immobile. I agree with his list through, but sickle being one of the worst assault rifles is downright false.
@@Micro-Landerin that same logic, not every gun needs to be the same fucking gun but slightly different. Which is what all the liberators minus the concussive are. I'm sorry, but the Carbine having a 60 round mag, the normal Lib a 50 round mag (small but significant), and the penetrator going up to 40. That would not break them, nor would it in any eay make them replace the Stalwart. Because if you take them, chances are you aren't taking the stalwart because they would be to supplement your lack of said stalwart due to you carrying anti heavy. But like I said, ain't no way the Carbine or normal Lib, even with 70 or 80 round mags would replace a stalwart in it's purpose. They don't have it's fire rate (at max for the carbine), and the Carbine does not have it's accuracy. And they likely still do not have the total ammo, and definitely don't have the advantage of continuous fire that the stalwart or even MG43 provides.
Try the Liberator Carbine in 1st person. Cuts down on a lot of the recoil and makes it very useable with any armor. Pair with Peak Physique for almost instantaneous ADS.
I'm an absolute fanboy of the Sickle. I can relate to most of the reasons why you don't like it, but imo, the gun itself doesn't belong in C tier. I'm disappointed you didn't mention how absurdly precise it is - you can literally snipe patrols at long range with it and kill hive guards up front by shooting holes under its armor plating. The wind up when firing isn't as bad as you've pictured but yeah, you need a tad bit of predictiveness in it. As for the heatsinks, i recommend treating it like a regular assault rifle and not an energy weapon with unlimited ammo - don't be scared to reload it when overheating, there's enough ammo lying randomly on the map, plus 3 backup heatsinks can last you quite long - even on helldive. When getting swarmed by hunters and other small shitfucks you can either spam dive and kill them with the sickle or just swap to the secondary. Damage itself isn't THAT bad, but could be better. Biggest drawback is probably lack of medium armor pen, hive guards and those armored bile spewers can be a pain in the arse to kill while under heavy pressure.
Even with the AR buff I'm still using the Blitzer. The combo of the Blitzer + Laser Rover is S tier for the bugs. The only slightly annoying bug is the Hive Guard, it's not dangerous at all, just takes a bit of time to kill from the front.
agreed. The blitzer stagger overshadows the L-concussive and is by go to with the flamethrower or incendiary strats by forcing bugs to stay in the flames longer.
I personally have the Tenderizer and Adjudicator in A tier, Sickle B(could be A), Liberator and Carbine C, and the Concussive and Penetrator D. The Sickles infinite ammo and great handling make up for its clunkiness and in emergencies just use ur secondary or a support weapon. The Lib is the Lib and the Carbine’s poorer ammo and range offsets its RPM. The Concussive is nice at keeping things away but killing will always just be more practical than CCing. The Lib Pen is just a joke.
I agree with this list. I haven't used the Tenderizer yet but the low ammo capacity is the MAIN issue of most of these ARs. C'mon, just use the base SMG. Literally leagues better already
1st of all, I respect your opinion, I liked how to explained yourself so I could understand your reasoning. 2nd, My turn. Liberator is B, Concusive is C, Sickle is B, penetrator at the bottom, Adjudicator is N/A (haven't used yet), Adjudicator is A, and Carbine is B. In my humble opinion ofc. Too lazy to explain myself since I don't usually write comments lol.
On the same page with the Penetrator. I wanted it to be good so badly, but after just a couple games after unlocking it, I realized the armor penetration doesn't matter if the damage you're actually doing once you penetrate is negligible. :(
Even on the bot front, the Penetrator struggles when the concept of “why spend half my magazine shooting a devastator in the chest when I can just use the Default Liberator for more ammo and just headshot or crotch shot a devastator?” Exists
The adjudicator is a gun that frustrates me to no end. I agree with its launch format, a DMR class weapon with full auto functionality and damage trade off. The problem at the time of the adjudicator’s release was that all DMRs weren’t doing enough damage within the class, why was the solution to reclassify that gun?
Was going to comment on this. The sickle isn’t bad. It’s just not his type of weapon. Sickle is easily one of the best assault rifles as of right now due to its virtually nonexistent recoil and effectively infinite ammo. Not to mention that its sights are great for any range. He did shine some light for me on the concussive, however, since it’s one of my least used guns in the game.
@@infinitekarma4949 so, how often does the sickle's infinite ammo and low recoil save you when you're being surrounded by hunters? or is there something else that's really important for your primary to be able to do against bugs?
@@ihave2cowslike all the time, you'll never have to stop for ammo box. The cool down means you dont have manually reload but can SWAP to your secondary/support weapon or throw your stratagem or anything for a bit then come back and shoot your sickle again. And if your surrounded by hunters that's your fault for now not clearing them fast or effective enough and let em build up
Why are you aiming downsite with the sickle? That’s probably why you aren’t enjoying it as much, just hip fire. It’s accurate enough and has infinite ammo. Gotta play to its advantages.
7:16 I know the typical gamer response is “you aren’t playing it right” but you admit you prefer to play it a different way and that way isn’t really working. I agree spool up time hurts it a lot against bugs since so many like to get in your face (not as bad against bots since you can use the cover to hide while it’s spooling up). For those long cool down times you just gotta be running, then go back to gunning after. I wouldn’t personally bring it against bugs either though.
People really sleep on the normal liberator. It does everything you want in a standard gun. Extremely high accuracy, good ammo capacity, each shot oneshots small enemies and kills most medium enemies quickly. It's also not as trash anymore against durable weakspots. Sure the Tenderizer is better in most ways, but only by such a mild margin that they both should still be in the same tier.
It's certainly a reliable gun if you don't know what to bring in either front but people usually take specialized weapons and rely on strats to augment their loadout or simply build around it. Sure you can take a normal gun but to most people what's better is to take a gun that compliments your strats to do more. e.g. Sometimes I prefer more firepower on my primary so I'll take a adjudicator or dominator for more penetration so I can shoot more recklessly but take a Stalwart to help with chaff clearing on bugs.
@@ythandlename My point is that it’s still a strong gun for mobbing. Comparing it to optimal gun or build for bots/bugs is like comparing an A tier weapon to an S tier one. In other words, the difference in power is not so vast that it belongs in a mediocre tier. If you took the liberator with random other gear into a high difficulty mission, you would likely still be fine against smaller enemies.
The Adjudicator is my favorite gun in the game, i like the Tenderizer but it's reload speed just feels off. And if you can manage your recoil the Adjudicator is really nice. But man major F for the Penetrator. That weapon is completely useless because the Adjudicator exists. You literally have 2 weapons with similar stats but because Penetrator does so little damage it's borderline useless. It should have more ammo capacity at the very least. But even then the damage needed isn't enough to compete with the BR-14. Maybe give it the same treatment as the BR-14 and give it more damage to body parts.
Tenderizer though many will say it’s the best AR is fairly balanced. Low mag size and high damage output only for players that can land shots on those soft spots between armor. Adjudicator is just the aim and delete rifle. Breaks up armor very well as dropping solid damage. Just can’t extend too far in range without it having that recoil taking effect.
Adjudicator is what a basic assault rifle should be. I get the absence of medium armor penetration on something like shotguns or smgs, latest liberator, since its a shorten version or an actual assault rifle, like AKS-74U compared to a AK-74M and has less riflings in the barrel. But the fact, that an assault rifle, or a marsman rifle (looking at u diligance) have only light armor penetration pretty much confronts the real life ARs. Like look at what makes assault rifle an actual assault rifle - somewhat slow firerate (totally not handy gatling or smg), huge recoil if spraying, so burst shooting required, quite a decent aim, high initial bullet speed, high stopping power. There's no way a "high caliber" tenderizer cant get through a fucking hitin. Somehow pummeler looks more like an assault rifle, judging by its firerate and stopping power. They really need to make some light machinguns as primaries for spraying playstyle and tweak assault rifle to something more deadly, something that has a decent stopping power, it should have medium armor pen in cost of slower firerate, bigger recoil and shitty horde shooting capabilility.
Ok, I think you're not understanding how to actually use the Sickle. The Sickle is not a quick response weapon, it is a horde clear gun. The high rate or fire, low recoil and extremely fast reload means it can keep up an extremely heavy sustained DPS, even without a recoiled reduction armor. It may be best to think of it as a heavy submachinegun rather than an assault rifle. Further, the cool down also means between engagements, you sleazy have a full magazine. But you really don't want to be cooling down mid-combat. But the wind up time means you need to use something else for quick response. When using the Sickle you need to get familiar with melee attacks. A quick punch in the face will stagger a Hunter enough that they don't hit you before the gun winds up. A stun grenade at your feet stunts the sea long enough to reload and hose down and entire swarm with death. I love pairing the Sickle with the Grenade Launcher and the Tactical armor. Put in the Bushwacker or Verdict for the quick response, and you've got a very mobile, very tanky kit that can clear swarms very effectively. But it is not a quick response precision weapon, and trying to use it like that will only bring tears.
its still the sickle imo. The main problem with assault rifles is that they don't do great instant damage, and they don't do great for ammo ecnomy either. The time to kill per terminid is still sky high, and each magazine only kills maybe two or three warriors, four if you have perfect recoil and stop shooting precisely when their head pops. This is just not enough when you only have 7 or 8 spare mags. The AR class could all be buffed with +25% damage or +25% mag size along with +2 or 3 spare magazines and they would be barely up alongside the regular breaker. The sickle does slightly lower damage, but fires faster and has a lot more ammo as long as u stop using it when it comes close to heating. They did something right by buffing the damage of the tenderizer and adjudicator, but the decision to lower the mag size was just braindead of them.
Agreed on Sickle. I used to love it. Now I can't stand the wind-up. Though, for bots it's pretty stellar especially when paired with AMR, because they both work best in 1st person.
you're absolutely right about the sickle. single-handedly the most overrated gun in the game. ammo supplies aren't that necessary, you rarely die because you're out of total ammo. Most deaths come from not having ammo in the clip. and the cooldown combined with the windup makes the sickle ass in the position bugs are most commonly putting you in; surrounded. everyone complaining about hunters being op; "w-what do you mean, the sickle is making me die to them? i-i-its op! Slight more damage than the liberator and theoretically infinite ammo! so op!"
im happy you gave the lib concussive some appreciation. i love the gun, but im bummed the pummeler outperforms it in every way now, aside from durable dmg (lib concussive has more durable dmg). an easy solution would be to give the lib concussive 10 more pnts of blunt dmg (from 65 to 75) and increase the durable dmg from 33% to 40%. then the lib concussive would stand on its own and create a distinct yet balanced difference from the pummeler. one more thing. the reason guns do not have modding capabilities and never will is because guns come as a package item, and you get what you see. the unique features of each weapon is what sets them apart. therefore one has to look at all the features a gun has to offer. the lib penetrator comes w arguably the best scope of all the assault rifles, which sets it apart from the adjudicator more than just its lower recoil. the increase to all the assault rifles' durable dmg was a brilliant way to increase their effectiveness w/o having to increase all of their blunt dmg. id just argue for that increase to blunt dmg for my beloved lib concussive. please AH!
I think you're using the Sickle wanting it to play the exact same role that the Liberator does, but it just doesn't. It's not the super short range weapon like the Liberator can be. It also has multiple replacement heatsinks, which you never seemed to utilize. It can absolutely dominate any of the assault rifles in terms of fire uptime, as long as you can manage those spare heatsinks appropriately. Lastly, your argument that the spool up is a con feels in poor taste, especially with your arguments that the Liberator Concussive having poor damage just because it should be used for other things being mere moments earlier in the video. It's just a different playstyle which might require more mindfulness in when you fire it, but just means you have to play it less like a burst fire rifle, which you even admit to doing in the same video. I think the Sickle deserves to at least be above the base Liberator.
You are using the las-16 wrong. That thing is basically a LMG primary weapon. You don't aim that thing bc it limit the pov and turn rate which in turn wasted you more time to charge it up against for newer enemies. That thing have 80 bullet if you count the RPM and the time it shoot. Basically it's a LMG. You want to swing that thing from enemies to enemies while not aimming to see better and turn to the side better.
I'd increase the mag size on almost all AR's significantly. 30% or so. AR's don't have much advantages over anything against bugs. The tenderizer is good against bots. The liberator carbine should be a bug weapon but is only worse than taking the punisher.
You can't omit a Tier choice. That's not how rankings work. There's always something better or worse than the current thing. Adjudicator is S-Tier among ARs. Full stop.
Which of these guns are used on lvl 9 helldive: 75% breaker incendiary (not in this list) 20% sickle and 5% other guns. sickle is the only gun of your list i see regularly on lvl 9. you didn't even test them on lvl 9 for your video. personally i don't like the sickle because of the lag, but it's a good gun.
i personally think the AP rifle needs a buff. cause despite how many people defend it i simply can't wrap my head around trading all around lower stats just to punch through armor.
Sickle is perfect against automatons, especially against devastators, half the time i dont bother bringing weapons to deal with them since i can just hit the face with ease and kill them in less the a second, but the sickle does feel weak against bugs and i think i have an idea why, most bug attacks come in huge, blitz waves that just wash over you, meaning you'll be chewing through heat sinks like they are going out of style, bots on the other hand (atleast in my personal experience) feels like their waves are bit more staggered, and most bots dont rush into melee.
Me personally I love the sickle, it highly depends on play style but anyone can use it to make it work, it does actually do a ton of damage, headshots with it can take out anything nearly instantly, if it feels like it’s taking a while then you’re hitting armor. The cooldown doesn’t affect me any I can take out most hoards quickly enough to not worry and if I need to cook it down then chances are I’m backing away anyway but you can reload it which is very quick and that resets the heat gauge
All the primaries suck. Let’s just get that out the way. The way it is now, your primary is actually your secondary and stratagems weapons seem like primary. So in this case the sickle is actually the best choice because you’re really using it for the low enemies like bot soldiers or the bugs. I use my stratagems mainly the autocannon. But that’s arrowheads fault for making it this way.
how did I never notice in all my time with the sickle that you dont get hit markers >:( but I do actually agree that it doesn't feel like a great weapon, ironically the nonexistent recoil feels good for hitting targets, but *feel* wise it loses a bit of what makes a gun so good to shoot, the recoil of a gun is usually a good indicator of it's power which is why alot of high power low fire rate snipers have pretty massive recoil even outside of games and yeah the wind up has killed me a few times where I needed that shot out just a bit quicker before a hunter pounced on me the problem I have with alot of the ARs is that despite being what they are, high power low power high rate of fire low rate of fire, none of them really compete with the sustain or power of weapons like the punisher/slugger (god rest your soul) the incen breaker, even the normal breaker or the defender, the punisher/slugger can reload between shots with next to no time lost if you get the rhythm down, breaker and incen breaker just kill anything they even look at, incen especially as the spread of the pellets will help kill scavs and hunters easily, meanwhile some ARs take half a mag to kill a simple warrior, I just dont understand it
The Sickle is super good with hip fireing due to the lack of recoil and the it has super good accuracy so hip fireing is super handy verry good for movement and dodging bugs. And in your video you didn't hip fire once with the gun.+ with the cool downs you need to swap with your side arm now and then and it's a great combo once you get into the swings of things.
I just want big mag options. We have none. It's so sad, why can't I have a 60 round clip? I'm differently abled and the less I have to reload the better for my health
If they wanted to balance the lib pen. Id say to put it in a good spot is to mag size 35 or 40 and up dmg to 65. That would put it in between the lib and adjudicator. If that makes it too strong out amount of mags to 8. Thats how id do it anyways.
The Liberator Concussive is my go-to, it holds its own against most enemy types. Hell, it can even take down Chargers with ease, if you have the skills.
They lied they didn’t buff the ar’s, they gave them better damage but removed rounds per mag. Gd they’re so stupid, damage per mag didn’t even change, still underpowered!
Worst change AH has done so far was made it so by default we can't see what level difficulty you are on and how much time is left. I refuse to watch any videos that don't have this setting on, that is why you get a down vote from me.
sickle is still the best AR just because its AMMO economy no matter how much they buff the rest AR its still cannot compete with sickle RUN and hit with sickle is your best friend
Oh disagree on the Lib-penetraitor, the secret to it is full auto all the time and don't be scared to go through mags. The Lib-penetraitor is and easy second to the Judicator.
the liberator penetrator feels outshined by the tenderizer and the ajudacator. the ajudacator has great pen an damage. an the tenderizer can pin point any light armor points better than the penetrator due to its higher damage. idk what they can do with it? as it feels too much like the other two but worse. also use the burst mode on the carbine and enjoy the fun
I used the sickle since it came out ya it has problems with medieumans heavy but shreds all light armor enemies I use the nade launcher to take care of medium sometimes heavy armor enemies
We need an auto weapon that'll do heavy penetration damage. Or some of the rifles need slight increase to damage. Something gotta give to make them better but not too op
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You should reload the sickle somewhat regularly, in all the clips you showed you had max ammo. If you want to keep firing, reload, you are allowed to reload the sickle whenever you feel like it
Yeah, in panic situations I just mag dump my Sickle. There's usually enough ammo lying around in POI or Resupply to fill her up. Even in panic situations tho I never go beyond eating up 2 mags so far.
Also switch to secondary or support weapon, and it will cooldown. The absence of an active reload requirement is a huge benefit.
Lover pairing it with laserxannon or arc thrower. Get a laser backpack and become a constant dps machine.
All liberators need a 45 round mag. That means concussive and penetrator need to go from 30 to 45. I actually don't mind the concussive, the mag is just way, way too small. The penetrator may need more love, but id start with the mag size.
Agree especially the liberstor pen. It has to have more mag size
Even with 60 round mags and 10 spare mags carried they wouldn't be OP at all. They'd just be closer to being on par with the better weapons in the game.
I honestly feel like it needs to be like this.
Lib-Con: 40 round, small fire rate increase.
Base liberator: 50-55-60 round mag.
Lib-Carbine: 60 round mag minimum, maybe literally 1 less recoil, and possibly higher damage than normal liberator with a more severe damage falloff at range to make SENSE with it's shorter barrel, as well as in comparison with it's normal brother's ability to have an up-to 100m scope and high accuracy.
Lib-Pen: NEEDS LOVE. Needs damage, needs at least 40 rounds per mag, if not 45.
And for the Adjudicator and Tenderizer.
Tendy needs it's 35 round mag back, as well as being given back one of the mags that was taken away.
And the Adjudicator needs to go up to 35 or 40 itself.
The guns are true to life. So if they were to increase the mag size, they would have to edit the model in a way that may look cartoony with a giant mag sticking out of it.
It would be easier if they reduced ttk on most enemies.
@@jonathondurst5980 Why do the guns have to be true to life in a game that is not true to life in any other way?
It also just isn't true because (Plasma gun, shoulder mounted autocannon, laser guns, shield packpacks, so on)
2:26 - I'm gonna call BS on you shooting the head of the brood commander and then them being able to call in a bug breach anyway!
Proof that bugs are throat singing Mongolians
Personally don't like the Sickle as well, and exactly for the reasons you stated, but it being in C tier is HARSH. B tier seems about right imo.
I agree on the sickle points I used to use it all the time but after a while I found the charge up was getting me killed by hunters who leap across postal codes to kobe me. while I tend to run the blitzer for its shear utility I often find myself using the tenderizer now its a very fun weapon and makes quick work of the flying rats.
you're using it wrong then.
@@tgs9740 not really the sickles spin up time proves to be a issue when fighting an enemy that presses W. on bots its great but there are much better options for bugs.
@@Doc_Paradoxwhat are you waiting for? The spin is like .25 seconds just shoot them when you see them, you have laser accuracy and infinite ammo
@@jeffbezos2960 waiting for the spin up while being pounced by multiple hunters isn't ideal ive already explained this.
Hot pooptakes > cold pooptakes!
Addendum: on the Adjudicator/Tenderizer/Carbine the reload time becomes significant.
The Adj has a 3.0/1.7s reload
The Tenderizer has a 3.3/2.2s reload
The Liberators have 3.0/2.0s reload.
That means the Tenderizer is going to have the most downtime in horde situations, while the Ask, if you manage your reloads, will feel a lot more available.
I think with the Adj having good breakpoints against the bugs and medium pen, probably edges it out above the Tenderizer and Carbine for me.
But I absolutely love the Carbine. I'm probably going to run it again tonight.
my go to AR against Bugs are Adjudicator, Cuncossive and the standard Liberator.
Adjudi can handle the bugs with armored heads, Cuncossive is fun for kicking around the bugs an dismember them. Liberator felt alway simply reliable good handeling not to fast or slow just a good sturdy gun.
I typically take the Supply Backpack with me together with medium/heavy MG or Grenade Launcher, together with the new 3barrel shotgun.
In the end its depens what you are taking with you and for that waht kind of weapons complements eachother for your Loadout.
in case you didnt already made one i would like to hear you opinions about the shotguns, i believe igot some not so common opinions for them, like how i feel like the Breaker S&P works BETTER agains BOTS then bugs, i know sounds wierd.
i gonna look up what else you got on your channel.
The sickle has amazing accuracy and with its practically unlimited ammo. You can chew through hordes of bugs. You just gotta aim for the head. The gun has basically zero sway and zero recoil. Use that 100m scope it has and just aim for those headshots. Even the bile spewers don't take many shots to the face before they die.
The best assault rifle in Helldivers 2 isn't even in this list. It's the Stalwart. And with the new Peak Physique armour perk, even the medium machine gun can basically be played like an assault rifle while also being s-tier.
Why use stalwart if MG-43 is straight better + feels as good with new fixed armor perk?
I mean really, why?
You can't penetrate medium armor with Stalwart at all and deal HALF damage against light armor.
MG-43 can pen medium enemies (hive guards and spewers say hello) and deals full damage vs light armor.
If you are ready to control recoil and tap fire - HMG is even better. But I prefer MG-43.
Don't get the Stalwart hype. Any medium armored bug will be your problem.
@@LaserTractorbeing able to reload on the fly makes it a primary replacer as you use a primary like the eruptor or crossbow to act as the heavy weapon
@@erniegang8127 yes, but stationary reload with MG is now much faster that you almost don't feel it
Idk, maybe it's just me. I don't like light pen weapons that much
@@LaserTractor I don’t use it, just highlighting why people do
@@LaserTractor If you are swarmed by bugs the stationary reload is still a problem.
I prefer the MG-43 as well, though.
My personal AR tier List for Bugs:
S: None
A: Adjudicator( For the Adjudicator its clear its the best AR in the game right now. It has medium pen, which is a massive bonus but also has great damage per shot and a good scope.) / Tenderizer( The Tenderizer is extremely good but limited by lack of armor pen and ammo count)
B: Lib Carbine(Lib Carbine has great DPS and shreds up close but again lacks accuracy at range and total ammo count) / Sickle(Sickle doesn't lack in any aspect as it can expend more shots than any AR something close to double what most ARs can fire per mag, along with great accuracy. I can see why burst firing can hinder this gun you don't need to burst with this gun cause of its accuracy and the spin up is short.) / Lib Pen(The Lib Pen now has full auto with slightly lower damage and ammo than the base Liberator but makes up for it with higher crit damage along with medium armor pen. It has a very ammo/time efficient TTK as long as you have good accuracy) / Liberator(Basic but very usable and gets the job done with no major drawbacks besides ammo)
c: None
D: Lib Concussive(I understand the utility aspect behind this gun however that does not make it up its short comings when it comes its general time to kill being fucking abysmal. Even after the nerf its still an inferior Pummeler for no reason)
I agree that none of the ARs are S tier, most just do not have the mag size nor the total ammo capacity to push them to S tier IMO.
Here is my take on how to buff the ARs
AR-23 Liberator
Damage: 60 -> 70
Rate of Fire: 640 -> 700
Spare Mags: 7 -> 9
Recoil: No Change (15)
Penetration: Light
Keep the mag size, 45 is already above average (that is 30) and its not a pocket light machinegun to have 75-100 round drum mags
AR-23P Liberator Penetrator
Damage: 45 -> 65 (the least damage falloff over distance due to the very long barrel)
Rate of Fire: 640 -> 700
Spare Mags: 10 -> 12
Recoil: 19 -> 15
Penetration: Medium
Keep mag size
AR-23C Liberator Concussive
Damage: 65 -> 75
Rate of Fire: 320 -> 600
Spare Mags: 10 -> 12
Recoil: 28 -> 25
Penetration: Light
Keep mag size
Give it back the Explosive trait and change its name back to AR-23E Liberator Explosive, it was a mistake taking it away to begin with
AR-23A Liberator Carbine
Damage: 60 -> 65 (increased damage falloff over range due to shorter barrel)
Rate of Fire: 920 -> 900
Spare Mags: 7 -> 9
Recoil: 26 -> 20
Penetration: Light
Keep mag size
AR(BR)-61 Tenderizer
Damage: No Change (95)
Durable Damage: 22 -> 25
Rate of Fire: No Change (600)
Spare Mags: 7 -> 8
Recoil: 10 -> 20
Penetration: Light
Increase mag size from 30 to 35
Make a separate weapon category marked as "Battle Rifles" and put it there
BR-14 Adjudicator
Damage: 80 -> 85
Durable Damage: 16 -> 20
Rate of Fire: 550 -> 600
Spare Mags: No Change (8)
Recoil: 40 -> 25
Penetration: Medium
Increase Mag size from 30 to 35
Make a separate weapon category marked as "Battle Rifles" and put it there
My take: The problem is not the mag sizes, but the subpar damage output compared to other options, its just how much time does it take to kill something, even trough weakspots
Yeah if one of these guns needs a buff, it’s gotta be the penetrator.
Give it a solid 55 damage. Just below the default liberator. Add on a better fire rate and you’ll have a nice blend of armor cracking potential, decent (though still not amazing) damage, and a more forgiving fire rate to somewhat help damage output.
The gun will still have a damage rate that isn’t the best but it will be very consistent.
My favorite gun in the game by far is the SG-225 Breaker. When talking specifically about Assault Rifles though, my favorite and go to guns are the AR-23 Liberator and the AR-23P Liberator Penetrator. I think both the Liberator and Liberator Penetrator are both way better than the guy in the video gives them credit for. In my opinion I'd put the basic AR-23 Liberator up at S Tier and the AR-23P Liberator Penetrator at either S Tier or A Tier at the very least specifically because it comes with more ammo and destroys medium armor enemies.
One important thing about the adjudicator is that it can actually stagger hunters!
The new liberator could use a faster reload or a longer clip but it is pretty fun imo
I don’t use it much but I’ve actually brought it for the bots just to clear chaff because bot chaff is really high these days
Good timing on this video. X)
Been trying to find something other than the Blitzer to use (No, I don't like the Incendiary Breaker). Been liking the Adjudicator, tho I am very reliant on the Supply Backpack cause good grief there is not enough ammo for Bugs. Also I feel that only the medium penetration ARs are useful against the Bugs. Used to use the Lib Pen a lot, it can get rid of spewers quickly by shooting them in the face with the medium penetration. But the Adjudicator does that too and hits harder, so that is my new favorite.
However, against the Bots the basic Liberator and especially the Tenderizor have been performing pretty well for me.
Honestly I want to like the Liberator-Pen but it just is not good enough, I could only see myelf using it if it could punch through heavy armor with it's other stats the way they are.
That might sound ridculous but for those that do not know, keep in mind that when armor pen is equal to the armor it's hitting it does half damage.
It takes a FULL CLIP of 30 rounds to kill a hive guard i you use the 'advantage' of the Penetrator and shoot it in the head, or nearly a full clip if you go for brain destruction and wait for the bleed out, whic is dangerous because they seem much harder to hit with melee to push them back than Warriors or Brood commanders.
In comparison, the normal Lib/Carbine can pop terminid warrior heads in a 3 shot burst, and down to only 2 bullets if they are within 25 meters. The Diligence (normal one) does it in one round, the peacemaker starter pistol takes 2 rounds to do it.
The liberator penerator CAN pop warrior heads in 3, might be able to do it in 2 due to the armor pen aiding it.
But that doesn't change that in all of those cases it is being beaten by the opposition in ammo economy. And it's especially beaten out when it comes to your mags lifespan.
And the Peacemaker Pistol might seem an unfair comparison but the reason I made it is that 1: It's widely considered worse than the redeemer by people. 2: I like it and use it, and as someone who uses my side arm pragmatically there is value in having to not even waste primary ammo to kill 7 terminid warriors.
The Sickle is actually amazing
Just increase the mag size and a little bit of the damage. Tenderizer should be at 60 rounds, same for the carbine. The liberator at 50 rounds at 80 damage. Adjudicator raise to 110 damage. The other ARs 45 rounds at around 70 to 80 damage. Should make ARs more useful like in original Halo.
Putting any assault rifle in A tier is just a baffling choice to me. I'd say the best AR right now is the regular liberator, and it would be a C tier. My idea of C tier is "servicable, but not ideal". B tier would be something like the breaker, Dominator or Scorcher that is better than most other choices but has issues, either with ammo or with crosshair move speed. A tier would be weapons like the Icendiary breaker, which does a ton of damage against low level bugs while having a minor drawback (crap against stalkers and when you need to get rid of a powerful close up enemy who is going to kill or stun you). S Tier would be the old breaker, with its 23 round magazine and incredible damage at both close and medium range. It was so damn fun when that weapon still existed...
I don't care much for balance. In this game no matter how good a primary weapon is, its only ever going to be a tool for clearing out weaker enemies. It doesn't matter so much if a weapon is good at clearing them, because a single airstrike or cluster bomb will do far more than a weapon can ever hope to manage. I'd much rather have weapons that are fun to use and don't leave you feeling frustrated and underpowered. the 30 or 45 rounds are not an issue if this was a game that pitted you against other human players like fps games. But this game puts you up against endless hordes of enemies, so having weapons that spend three seconds firing and then need two or three seconds reloading is just not fun. Assault rifles should be more like the stalwart imo- plenty of ammo, fast firing without too much recoil, but weak against armor.
Why the username? 😳
We love poop idk
He answered this before, he like poop joke apparently
My man loves poop, that's why
I find Assault rifles generally less effective against bugs and more suited for Bots. I find Base liberator generally the best option due to ammo and reload.
They're primarily to remove Chaff, Defend against Hunters and Stalkers, and create personal Space. Shotguns do this generally better.
"I don't like how the windup time on the sickle feels, therefore it SUCKS." Good design that drawback is real and balances the gun properly. I cannot stand high recoil.
and yes. Sickle has lowest Durability Damage of all Firearms. but shooting durable parts is a Bad Idea TM for every weapon!
i like how the scythe isn't even on this list, it bellow poop hate for me. IMO energy weapons like the scythe and sickle should have an option to increase damage at the cost of faster overheat, it would be a nice mechanic.
Scythe I wouldn’t call an AR but definitely don’t think it would rank too highly on an energy category tier list
Pair the concussive with stun grenades or incindiary . Stunned enemies can easily be dealth the precision strikes or clusters
They need double the shots bro. Not just a few more shots to make em feel good.
Well, devs position on that is either you take support weapon that can clear hordes (flamethrower, machinegun, grenade launcher) or take support weapon that deals with heavy armor + stratagems to compensate in what you're lacking.
Primaries are very limited and designed to protect you for limited amount of time vs limited amount of enemies
Dr poop love will u make factions videos again we miss those man
I totally agree with how poopy the the suckle feels! Thanks for the appropriate C grade
You should be judging all the guns the same either on their own merits or how they work in a loadout. Either way, most of them suck, but you're not using the sickle properly; it should be paired with an ammo efficient sidearm so you can shoot while it's cooling down. There's no way in helldivers it's worse than the default gun. And the Carbine being put up with the top two, I mean, come on...
yeah sickle is absolutely amazing with its reliability. dont even forget about how you can fire 90 shots before reloading or stopping to cool down it makes me feel like i have no ammo switching to other weapons
If he loves poop, how can " poopey" be the worse rank...
3:55 Use Lib Concussive with Rover Guard
None, it’s the incendiary shotgun or nothing. Although to be fair I haven’t tried all weapons with bugs but there’s are 4 guns left for me to unlock and I will say nothing compares yet…. I really wish they did though.
ARs are best for the bots. When it comes to bugs there are just too many weapons that are more effective
So this guy makes an S tier weapon C tier... Lol there are Soo many great things on sickle that i think this is just you wanting to look like Guy who played hd2 training mission. What i agree on Is cooldown, everything else is straight up bs. Very fast fire ráže, can kill stalker before he destroy your shield, have zero recoil compared to every other ar, unlimited ammo, light armor pen... Sickle Is S tier. Only way someone say Its C is skill issue, tbh i thought i will never say skill issue, but you made me say something i hate, good job. Also idk if you considder this, but you could count in the scythe. I know Its not an ar per say, but i would love to see, if someone actually use it at all.
They all suck. Still. Everything in the liberator line needs to be 100 round drum mags. You carry less total mags but are in the fight for more than twice the time.
I know rage bait when I see it. Can’t trick me. You still get a comment for it tho. Congrats.
None of them... Yet. Next
Best answer none are good I played them extensively on pug groups and organised groups there only ok with organised orbitals for heavy breaches for pug groups there awful your screwed in nearly all heavy fights you will spend 90 % running away reloading if your new just use shotguns and take the dog laser as back up assault rifles need an extra 5 or 10 damage and and extra 10 in the clip my reasoning for sacking this game off is the weapons are ass to use apart from the blitzer plasma punisher or breaker incendery everything else is lacking there’s no fun because you need the same shit every match and the ship is not worth levelling up to grind 5% of anything to grind out hours and hours 😂 no thanks 🙂↔️
I feel the sickle is justified and really is up to personal preference it’s either a C or an S tier weapon I personally love it and would give it an S but I understand why you would give it a C it’s just not for everyone
I think you figured out that the “buffs” really didn’t matter because durable damage is so irrelevant. The major issue is the base damage. Assault rifles should be doing around 100 to actually feel useful. Of course, all other weapons should scale similarly. Guns feel bad because you just tickle enemies while in constant reload animations.
You are either shooting bodies or using the wrong gun against targets. Light pen rifles are useful vs medium enemies BECAUSE they can destroy limbs and explosive parts. The AR buff made the AR stratagems, Liberator, and Concussive much better. Guns only feel weak when you are applying them to the wrong parts of enemies or when you have no guns that effect medium armor vs enemies with no destroyable limbs with light armor. Do you know that armor plates get compromised? Test with the Senator on bugs and when you see the Brood Lord head plate damaged, swap to your AR. You aren't understanding how pen and durable DMG work, and because of that you aren't learning weak points or how to pick a load out.
@@Brokentwobutton You just don't understand. Let me break it down for you Barney style.
ARs feel bad because damage bad. Even shooting unarmored/light armored sections feels bad because damage bad. If you only kill a few mobs out of a swarm each mag, you just take a better gun like the incendiary breaker.
Durable damage is irrelevant. Go look up when durable damage is applied then look at the bugs that even have a relevant durable section and %. Congrats, you found the spewer/charger/titan. AR were complete trash at that before the buff and only mostly trash now. Yay, quite the buff. You really have no idea how damage works in this game.
bro play at dif 6 and thinks his opinions are justified lmfao
At what difficulty you should play to have a justified opinion?)
I mean:
A) hes playing at 7 and higher you can literally see it
B) the enemies have the same hp and dmg at lvl 1 as they do at lvl 9 so not sure were your point has any merit.
C) he makes decent points. I fully understand you're a sickle simp thats why youre malding so badly but didnt say you can only use xyz just that objectively from a neutral stand point this is his tier list
7-8-9, the red difficulty’s. At first I was thinking hey let people play what they want, but then I realized that yeah his ranking might not be accurate AT ALL on lower difficulty’s. Like every gun seems S tier on difficultly 3, but the drawbacks and advantages of guns start to show when you bring them on higher difficulty’s
Pretty sure the difficulty would be to test weapons but it's clear you're one of those sissy fanboys who will gawk gawk and defend everything, even when it's trash.
There is one way the Sickle shines over every other rifle: hip fire performance.
Fr, thing is accurate as hell when shooting from the hip
And in cold planets vs bots
Other than that, plasma punisher is my go to for bots
Sickle shines on both fronts in a sense but depends on how you use it. Sickle can dumpfire and you should use up the heatsink if you have to but having near infinite ammo means you can afford to take on a lot of chaff which bugs usually spawns in bunches. For bots, the cooling down isn't as bad because you can simply swap weapon and wait behind cover while it cools which most bugs chase you out of cover while most bots will keep shooting immobile. I agree with his list through, but sickle being one of the worst assault rifles is downright false.
@ythandlename yeah, I agree.
I’m usually I diehard Liberator and Tenderizer fan, but god damn is it so fun to just hipfire shit with the Sickle
The carbine really needs a drum mag. Hell, by the engineer lady on the ship, you can see a Liberator drum mag on the table!
it wouldnt be a carbine then, just a shitty Stalwart, not every gun gotta have 3 billion magsize, time your reloads accordingly
@@Micro-Landerin that same logic, not every gun needs to be the same fucking gun but slightly different.
Which is what all the liberators minus the concussive are.
I'm sorry, but the Carbine having a 60 round mag, the normal Lib a 50 round mag (small but significant), and the penetrator going up to 40.
That would not break them, nor would it in any eay make them replace the Stalwart.
Because if you take them, chances are you aren't taking the stalwart because they would be to supplement your lack of said stalwart due to you carrying anti heavy.
But like I said, ain't no way the Carbine or normal Lib, even with 70 or 80 round mags would replace a stalwart in it's purpose. They don't have it's fire rate (at max for the carbine), and the Carbine does not have it's accuracy. And they likely still do not have the total ammo, and definitely don't have the advantage of continuous fire that the stalwart or even MG43 provides.
@@miemsliva4464i’d just say screw it and give the Libby Pen the full 45 at that rate rather than 40
Try the Liberator Carbine in 1st person. Cuts down on a lot of the recoil and makes it very useable with any armor. Pair with Peak Physique for almost instantaneous ADS.
I'm an absolute fanboy of the Sickle. I can relate to most of the reasons why you don't like it, but imo, the gun itself doesn't belong in C tier.
I'm disappointed you didn't mention how absurdly precise it is - you can literally snipe patrols at long range with it and kill hive guards up front by shooting holes under its armor plating.
The wind up when firing isn't as bad as you've pictured but yeah, you need a tad bit of predictiveness in it.
As for the heatsinks, i recommend treating it like a regular assault rifle and not an energy weapon with unlimited ammo - don't be scared to reload it when overheating, there's enough ammo lying randomly on the map, plus 3 backup heatsinks can last you quite long - even on helldive.
When getting swarmed by hunters and other small shitfucks you can either spam dive and kill them with the sickle or just swap to the secondary.
Damage itself isn't THAT bad, but could be better.
Biggest drawback is probably lack of medium armor pen, hive guards and those armored bile spewers can be a pain in the arse to kill while under heavy pressure.
2:31 Did that headless Brood Mother just called a bug breach even though it already lost its head!? Is that supposed to happen!?
Yes, they can do that
Even with the AR buff I'm still using the Blitzer.
The combo of the Blitzer + Laser Rover is S tier for the bugs.
The only slightly annoying bug is the Hive Guard, it's not dangerous at all, just takes a bit of time to kill from the front.
Blitzer is extremely goated vs bugs
agreed. The blitzer stagger overshadows the L-concussive and is by go to with the flamethrower or incendiary strats by forcing bugs to stay in the flames longer.
I personally have the Tenderizer and Adjudicator in A tier, Sickle B(could be A), Liberator and Carbine C, and the Concussive and Penetrator D. The Sickles infinite ammo and great handling make up for its clunkiness and in emergencies just use ur secondary or a support weapon. The Lib is the Lib and the Carbine’s poorer ammo and range offsets its RPM. The Concussive is nice at keeping things away but killing will always just be more practical than CCing. The Lib Pen is just a joke.
Lol you mean someone doesn't take Incindiary Breaker vs bugs?
I rarely do, just to provide some variety in the match.
Not everyone need a crutch weapon, just learn the game and try stuff out. I use crossbow and doing way better than incin shotgun user
I don’t really find the Breaker Incendiary fun, Punisher and Blitzer are my homies with shotguns
I agree with this list.
I haven't used the Tenderizer yet but the low ammo capacity is the MAIN issue of most of these ARs.
C'mon, just use the base SMG. Literally leagues better already
1st of all, I respect your opinion, I liked how to explained yourself so I could understand your reasoning.
2nd, My turn. Liberator is B, Concusive is C, Sickle is B, penetrator at the bottom, Adjudicator is N/A (haven't used yet), Adjudicator is A, and Carbine is B. In my humble opinion ofc. Too lazy to explain myself since I don't usually write comments lol.
On the same page with the Penetrator. I wanted it to be good so badly, but after just a couple games after unlocking it, I realized the armor penetration doesn't matter if the damage you're actually doing once you penetrate is negligible. :(
Even on the bot front, the Penetrator struggles when the concept of “why spend half my magazine shooting a devastator in the chest when I can just use the Default Liberator for more ammo and just headshot or crotch shot a devastator?” Exists
Sickle is my go-to hit and run weapon for my recon kit. I run Sickle/Senator/Grenade Launcher/Smoke Grenade, with Orbital Railcannon and Eagle Smoke.
The adjudicator is a gun that frustrates me to no end. I agree with its launch format, a DMR class weapon with full auto functionality and damage trade off. The problem at the time of the adjudicator’s release was that all DMRs weren’t doing enough damage within the class, why was the solution to reclassify that gun?
"Liberator Concussive isn't bad, it's just a different playstyle, B-tier"
"Sickle is a different playstyle, that makes it bad, C-tier"
: p
@@HasekuraIsuna in poop’s world I am always right!
@@DrPooplove🤨
Was going to comment on this. The sickle isn’t bad. It’s just not his type of weapon. Sickle is easily one of the best assault rifles as of right now due to its virtually nonexistent recoil and effectively infinite ammo. Not to mention that its sights are great for any range.
He did shine some light for me on the concussive, however, since it’s one of my least used guns in the game.
@@infinitekarma4949 so, how often does the sickle's infinite ammo and low recoil save you when you're being surrounded by hunters? or is there something else that's really important for your primary to be able to do against bugs?
@@ihave2cowslike all the time, you'll never have to stop for ammo box. The cool down means you dont have manually reload but can SWAP to your secondary/support weapon or throw your stratagem or anything for a bit then come back and shoot your sickle again. And if your surrounded by hunters that's your fault for now not clearing them fast or effective enough and let em build up
Why are you aiming downsite with the sickle? That’s probably why you aren’t enjoying it as much, just hip fire. It’s accurate enough and has infinite ammo. Gotta play to its advantages.
7:16 I know the typical gamer response is “you aren’t playing it right” but you admit you prefer to play it a different way and that way isn’t really working. I agree spool up time hurts it a lot against bugs since so many like to get in your face (not as bad against bots since you can use the cover to hide while it’s spooling up). For those long cool down times you just gotta be running, then go back to gunning after. I wouldn’t personally bring it against bugs either though.
They all suck still imo because of their extremely low clip sizes. You’re having to constantly reload with them every 2 seconds
The rifles need to all be above 100 damage a hit or 10-12 total mags.
People really sleep on the normal liberator. It does everything you want in a standard gun. Extremely high accuracy, good ammo capacity, each shot oneshots small enemies and kills most medium enemies quickly. It's also not as trash anymore against durable weakspots. Sure the Tenderizer is better in most ways, but only by such a mild margin that they both should still be in the same tier.
It's certainly a reliable gun if you don't know what to bring in either front but people usually take specialized weapons and rely on strats to augment their loadout or simply build around it. Sure you can take a normal gun but to most people what's better is to take a gun that compliments your strats to do more. e.g. Sometimes I prefer more firepower on my primary so I'll take a adjudicator or dominator for more penetration so I can shoot more recklessly but take a Stalwart to help with chaff clearing on bugs.
@@ythandlename My point is that it’s still a strong gun for mobbing. Comparing it to optimal gun or build for bots/bugs is like comparing an A tier weapon to an S tier one. In other words, the difference in power is not so vast that it belongs in a mediocre tier. If you took the liberator with random other gear into a high difficulty mission, you would likely still be fine against smaller enemies.
Putting the concussive above the penetrate is a crime
Scorcher 😂😂
The Adjudicator is my favorite gun in the game, i like the Tenderizer but it's reload speed just feels off. And if you can manage your recoil the Adjudicator is really nice. But man major F for the Penetrator. That weapon is completely useless because the Adjudicator exists. You literally have 2 weapons with similar stats but because Penetrator does so little damage it's borderline useless. It should have more ammo capacity at the very least. But even then the damage needed isn't enough to compete with the BR-14. Maybe give it the same treatment as the BR-14 and give it more damage to body parts.
Tenderizer though many will say it’s the best AR is fairly balanced.
Low mag size and high damage output only for players that can land shots on those soft spots between armor.
Adjudicator is just the aim and delete rifle.
Breaks up armor very well as dropping solid damage.
Just can’t extend too far in range without it having that recoil taking effect.
The Penetrator definitely needs more rounds and damage… even at the lower difficulty levels you are constantly reloading…
Agreed on Adjudicator largely.
If you can master the recoil it becomes S Tier for Bugs IMO.
Adjudicator is what a basic assault rifle should be. I get the absence of medium armor penetration on something like shotguns or smgs, latest liberator, since its a shorten version or an actual assault rifle, like AKS-74U compared to a AK-74M and has less riflings in the barrel. But the fact, that an assault rifle, or a marsman rifle (looking at u diligance) have only light armor penetration pretty much confronts the real life ARs. Like look at what makes assault rifle an actual assault rifle - somewhat slow firerate (totally not handy gatling or smg), huge recoil if spraying, so burst shooting required, quite a decent aim, high initial bullet speed, high stopping power. There's no way a "high caliber" tenderizer cant get through a fucking hitin. Somehow pummeler looks more like an assault rifle, judging by its firerate and stopping power. They really need to make some light machinguns as primaries for spraying playstyle and tweak assault rifle to something more deadly, something that has a decent stopping power, it should have medium armor pen in cost of slower firerate, bigger recoil and shitty horde shooting capabilility.
Ok, I think you're not understanding how to actually use the Sickle.
The Sickle is not a quick response weapon, it is a horde clear gun. The high rate or fire, low recoil and extremely fast reload means it can keep up an extremely heavy sustained DPS, even without a recoiled reduction armor.
It may be best to think of it as a heavy submachinegun rather than an assault rifle.
Further, the cool down also means between engagements, you sleazy have a full magazine. But you really don't want to be cooling down mid-combat.
But the wind up time means you need to use something else for quick response.
When using the Sickle you need to get familiar with melee attacks. A quick punch in the face will stagger a Hunter enough that they don't hit you before the gun winds up. A stun grenade at your feet stunts the sea long enough to reload and hose down and entire swarm with death.
I love pairing the Sickle with the Grenade Launcher and the Tactical armor. Put in the Bushwacker or Verdict for the quick response, and you've got a very mobile, very tanky kit that can clear swarms very effectively.
But it is not a quick response precision weapon, and trying to use it like that will only bring tears.
its still the sickle imo. The main problem with assault rifles is that they don't do great instant damage, and they don't do great for ammo ecnomy either. The time to kill per terminid is still sky high, and each magazine only kills maybe two or three warriors, four if you have perfect recoil and stop shooting precisely when their head pops. This is just not enough when you only have 7 or 8 spare mags. The AR class could all be buffed with +25% damage or +25% mag size along with +2 or 3 spare magazines and they would be barely up alongside the regular breaker.
The sickle does slightly lower damage, but fires faster and has a lot more ammo as long as u stop using it when it comes close to heating. They did something right by buffing the damage of the tenderizer and adjudicator, but the decision to lower the mag size was just braindead of them.
Agreed on Sickle. I used to love it. Now I can't stand the wind-up. Though, for bots it's pretty stellar especially when paired with AMR, because they both work best in 1st person.
you're absolutely right about the sickle. single-handedly the most overrated gun in the game. ammo supplies aren't that necessary, you rarely die because you're out of total ammo. Most deaths come from not having ammo in the clip. and the cooldown combined with the windup makes the sickle ass in the position bugs are most commonly putting you in; surrounded.
everyone complaining about hunters being op; "w-what do you mean, the sickle is making me die to them? i-i-its op! Slight more damage than the liberator and theoretically infinite ammo! so op!"
Borderlands 3’s Maliwan weapons prepared me for the Sickle and its wind up time years in advance
im happy you gave the lib concussive some appreciation. i love the gun, but im bummed the pummeler outperforms it in every way now, aside from durable dmg (lib concussive has more durable dmg). an easy solution would be to give the lib concussive 10 more pnts of blunt dmg (from 65 to 75) and increase the durable dmg from 33% to 40%. then the lib concussive would stand on its own and create a distinct yet balanced difference from the pummeler.
one more thing. the reason guns do not have modding capabilities and never will is because guns come as a package item, and you get what you see. the unique features of each weapon is what sets them apart. therefore one has to look at all the features a gun has to offer. the lib penetrator comes w arguably the best scope of all the assault rifles, which sets it apart from the adjudicator more than just its lower recoil.
the increase to all the assault rifles' durable dmg was a brilliant way to increase their effectiveness w/o having to increase all of their blunt dmg.
id just argue for that increase to blunt dmg for my beloved lib concussive. please AH!
I think you're using the Sickle wanting it to play the exact same role that the Liberator does, but it just doesn't. It's not the super short range weapon like the Liberator can be.
It also has multiple replacement heatsinks, which you never seemed to utilize. It can absolutely dominate any of the assault rifles in terms of fire uptime, as long as you can manage those spare heatsinks appropriately.
Lastly, your argument that the spool up is a con feels in poor taste, especially with your arguments that the Liberator Concussive having poor damage just because it should be used for other things being mere moments earlier in the video. It's just a different playstyle which might require more mindfulness in when you fire it, but just means you have to play it less like a burst fire rifle, which you even admit to doing in the same video. I think the Sickle deserves to at least be above the base Liberator.
You are using the las-16 wrong. That thing is basically a LMG primary weapon. You don't aim that thing bc it limit the pov and turn rate which in turn wasted you more time to charge it up against for newer enemies. That thing have 80 bullet if you count the RPM and the time it shoot. Basically it's a LMG.
You want to swing that thing from enemies to enemies while not aimming to see better and turn to the side better.
I'd increase the mag size on almost all AR's significantly. 30% or so. AR's don't have much advantages over anything against bugs. The tenderizer is good against bots. The liberator carbine should be a bug weapon but is only worse than taking the punisher.
You can't omit a Tier choice. That's not how rankings work. There's always something better or worse than the current thing.
Adjudicator is S-Tier among ARs. Full stop.
Which of these guns are used on lvl 9 helldive: 75% breaker incendiary (not in this list) 20% sickle and 5% other guns. sickle is the only gun of your list i see regularly on lvl 9. you didn't even test them on lvl 9 for your video. personally i don't like the sickle because of the lag, but it's a good gun.
i personally think the AP rifle needs a buff. cause despite how many people defend it i simply can't wrap my head around trading all around lower stats just to punch through armor.
Sickle is perfect against automatons, especially against devastators, half the time i dont bother bringing weapons to deal with them since i can just hit the face with ease and kill them in less the a second, but the sickle does feel weak against bugs and i think i have an idea why, most bug attacks come in huge, blitz waves that just wash over you, meaning you'll be chewing through heat sinks like they are going out of style, bots on the other hand (atleast in my personal experience) feels like their waves are bit more staggered, and most bots dont rush into melee.
Me personally I love the sickle, it highly depends on play style but anyone can use it to make it work, it does actually do a ton of damage, headshots with it can take out anything nearly instantly, if it feels like it’s taking a while then you’re hitting armor. The cooldown doesn’t affect me any I can take out most hoards quickly enough to not worry and if I need to cook it down then chances are I’m backing away anyway but you can reload it which is very quick and that resets the heat gauge
All the primaries suck. Let’s just get that out the way. The way it is now, your primary is actually your secondary and stratagems weapons seem like primary. So in this case the sickle is actually the best choice because you’re really using it for the low enemies like bot soldiers or the bugs. I use my stratagems mainly the autocannon. But that’s arrowheads fault for making it this way.
how did I never notice in all my time with the sickle that you dont get hit markers >:( but I do actually agree that it doesn't feel like a great weapon, ironically the nonexistent recoil feels good for hitting targets, but *feel* wise it loses a bit of what makes a gun so good to shoot, the recoil of a gun is usually a good indicator of it's power which is why alot of high power low fire rate snipers have pretty massive recoil even outside of games and yeah the wind up has killed me a few times where I needed that shot out just a bit quicker before a hunter pounced on me
the problem I have with alot of the ARs is that despite being what they are, high power low power high rate of fire low rate of fire, none of them really compete with the sustain or power of weapons like the punisher/slugger (god rest your soul) the incen breaker, even the normal breaker or the defender, the punisher/slugger can reload between shots with next to no time lost if you get the rhythm down, breaker and incen breaker just kill anything they even look at, incen especially as the spread of the pellets will help kill scavs and hunters easily, meanwhile some ARs take half a mag to kill a simple warrior, I just dont understand it
The Sickle is super good with hip fireing due to the lack of recoil and the it has super good accuracy so hip fireing is super handy verry good for movement and dodging bugs. And in your video you didn't hip fire once with the gun.+ with the cool downs you need to swap with your side arm now and then and it's a great combo once you get into the swings of things.
I just want big mag options. We have none. It's so sad, why can't I have a 60 round clip? I'm differently abled and the less I have to reload the better for my health
If they wanted to balance the lib pen. Id say to put it in a good spot is to mag size 35 or 40 and up dmg to 65. That would put it in between the lib and adjudicator. If that makes it too strong out amount of mags to 8. Thats how id do it anyways.
The Liberator Concussive is my go-to, it holds its own against most enemy types. Hell, it can even take down Chargers with ease, if you have the skills.
They lied they didn’t buff the ar’s, they gave them better damage but removed rounds per mag. Gd they’re so stupid, damage per mag didn’t even change, still underpowered!
The Fortified perk also works because it has the 30% less recoil while crouching. Also, I would switch the sickle and liberator penetrator tiers.
Worst change AH has done so far was made it so by default we can't see what level difficulty you are on and how much time is left. I refuse to watch any videos that don't have this setting on, that is why you get a down vote from me.
sickle is still the best AR just because its AMMO economy no matter how much they buff the rest AR its still cannot compete with sickle
RUN and hit with sickle is your best friend
Oh disagree on the Lib-penetraitor, the secret to it is full auto all the time and don't be scared to go through mags. The Lib-penetraitor is and easy second to the Judicator.
the liberator penetrator feels outshined by the tenderizer and the ajudacator. the ajudacator has great pen an damage. an the tenderizer can pin point any light armor points better than the penetrator due to its higher damage. idk what they can do with it? as it feels too much like the other two but worse. also use the burst mode on the carbine and enjoy the fun
I used the sickle since it came out ya it has problems with medieumans heavy but shreds all light armor enemies
I use the nade launcher to take care of medium sometimes heavy armor enemies
Concussive needs way more damage, or more mags. I love the gun idea but it sucks at killing period
We need an auto weapon that'll do heavy penetration damage. Or some of the rifles need slight increase to damage. Something gotta give to make them better but not too op
As an Lib Penetrator main i totally agree. This gun is terrible. I only use it cus stockholm syndrome.
like the Sickle, i would also include the Scythe with assault rifles. i would also put it in C tier, cause its not great. but i still love it.
I disagree with the sickle placement
It should be higher, at least B
Mostly because it has a cool reticle and lasers are awesome