Brother, I so hope you get this. That’s crazy speed. Your videos is what got me into beachcats and currently restoring and modding a Nacra 5.0. Kick some ass my man.
Spot on! I agree with distinguishing foiling vs non foiling boats as, for the time being at least foiling boats are both very specialized and comparatively very expensive. Having this separation opens the attempts up to a much wider audience. Congratulations on the massive speeds Joe, wishing you and yours a very happy Christmas and a fantastic 2024 😎⛵️ PS, loving the tee’s and hoodies. Thank you.
Very exciting stuff. I think you’re bang on with your category description. Maybe add solo or 2 crew, just a suggestion. This official category/record could prompt a future redesign of cats trying to capture every bit of speed.
The two categories you've suggested would be a good starting point for them as there will always be classes of catamaran that fit that description. When they record the records I'd imagine they will capture the class of boat. The Tornado is probably the biggest boat that could be defined as a "beach cat" so would need to make it 6.1m LOA and below, foiling and non-foiling. On a reach it would be pretty hard to beat a Hobie 16.
Yeah, that's why I thought 21 feet was a good cut-off. You could of course have no size cut off but then our little boats will get eaten by the likes of the MOD 70 Fingers crossed that David allows it!
Let's gooo, oficial speed stick!! I'd answer that you are personally interested in the non foiling category, but think that a foiling (or general) category would be a good idea as well. I'd also add some sort of weight limit for the vessel to the definition, or vessel and crew. Adding 200kg to my F18 and going out with 40kt wind sounds like fun if you challenge me! 😅 Maybe not the 55kt wind of last night, but I got into 40kt by accident, without the extra weight, and the gps failed to record the one speed run we got out of it 🤬, I have no idea how fast that wild cat went that day on the reach, but I ran out of space stupidly fast. I think you forgot to mention how popular is the particular model you are trying to set the record with, but at this point in the conversation wouldn't mean much. Good luck with setting up the category first, and then it's time for setting a new speed worth recording in the book!
Thanks for that. I think extra weight can help up to a point. A scientist could probably work out optimal crew weights for different boats in different wind strengths. That'd be quite a project though.
@@JoyriderTV Joe, maybe just clarifying production specs and recommended crew quantity, (or flat 2 people max) could do it. Just some way to avoid it going crazy and remaining competitive, without modified vessels to be wider, heavier or any other modification not safety related.
I suggest you put the categories as you described them (I could not think of better) as an online petition. Then ask the JRSC to support your petition. We will all support you and maybe give it some eztra promotion to convince GWR that they should pay attention to a vibrant commuinity's interests.
heyho Joe, i love the names of your crew members, i hope the best for the guinnes Book world rekord, i think it's difficult to find the right category, i hope the boat lengh combinatet with foiling or non foiling is the door opener to davids decision, greetings
Isn’t there a risk that at 21 foot you’re competing against record attempts on faster boats like tornadoes and more modern race stuff? Is there merit in keeping the length at 18ft leisure catamaran cf designated racing and foiling boats? Love your work btw, just bought 2010 H16 ( i blame you for newly rediscovered addition !! 😂) to get back into cat sailing as last did it at Happy Surf in Vass back in 2002!!
Hi Phil, It's certainly been a long time! Congratulations on becoming a cat sailor, I always knew that you had it in you!!! In my research, i've found that in flat out speed, there's not much advantage with the bigger boats. I thought that the record should include the likes of the Tornado to make it inclusive for all beach cats.
That would be ideal but the impression that I get is that Guinness doesn't want too many categories which is why we'd have to just go foiling and non foiling.
I need advice and help. I recently purchased a Hobie 16 and I am very intimidated by it. Heck, I don't even know how to rig the thing. This boat is completely different than what I am used to. No one that I know has any idea on how to set it up. If you found yourself in this situation, what would you do?
I have the Index of all instructional videos on Joyrider TV. Pretty much everything that you need to know is here: totaljoyrider.com/pages/joyrider-tv If you get stuck with anything specific let me know and I'll talk about it in the next Q+A
@@JoyriderTV Joe, thank you very much!! I greatly appreciate you getting back to me and providing me with a starting point. I will go through the videos and follow the procedures. Thanks Again.
That would be included - so any type of cat with or without could take it. I didn't want to ask for too many sub-categories as I feel that I'm having to try as hard as possible to get anything in at all.
There is no authority keeping such records so you just record the speed and put it out there and see who shoots at it. The best 10 second average is, I think, the best means of determining speed. It takes minor blips and inaccuracies out of the picture. But it might be better for one-design class associations to maintain these type records.
Yes, the 10 second average definitely is what's required for any kind of accuracy. That's a good idea to approach the class associations to keep a leaderboard.
Yo Joe, You deserve the honor, however, I see 2 things are in your way, but both barriers can be overcome. 1. The category can't be a brand name. and 2. They need to be there to monitor it. From what I know about setting records - my company set some aviation records while I was a working stiff - the recognizing authority has to be present at the time of the record so they can watch all of your data methodology. So... 1. I think you're best bet would be to use already recognized categories. You're kind of reinventing the wheel but limiting the wheel too specifically when you're asking to be recognized. I would simply say, "hey David, how about we use the ISAF F16 and F18 design specifications for the category of this record?" It's already a well-know worldwide category of boat and it doesn't specify brand name. Someone else has already done the work for you. They've taken out the brand name of beach cats and put design specs that are accepted by a very large community. 2. You're gonna have to invite them to vasiliki. Or somewhere else where you know it's going to be blowing. What this means is that you're most likely not going to get the 26 knots you want, but you'll be able to establish the baseline. SOMEONE needs to get the F16 and/or F18 first record into Guinness, so it might as well be you. You'll have to convince them that you regularly go faster than the rest of the world because a. you're always there set up for strong winds, b. you have been doing it all over the world for many years so you know what the boat speed limit is and c. you have more recorded attempts at breaking the boat speed barriers than anyone else in the beach cat diaspora. You could use jealousy as a weapon by pointing out that you actually are the most recognized speed attempt cataloger on the planet. If they don't want to make the effort to simply say, "this guy is the fastest, you try and go faster and we'll keep track," then YOU will usurp the title of World Record keeper for a well-recognized boat and they'll lose the opportunity to be more authoritative. Good Luck, DK
Thanks Dave, I've since had another reply: "After looking into this further, it seems our sailing record titles are monitored by an external consultant World Sailing Speed Record Council (WSSRC). I would contact them regarding your record title and they will liaise with us regarding any attempt they deem acceptable. Unfortunately record titles of this nature are not open for standard applications and must be verified by an external consultant.
I think it is worth/important to ad SAILING- Catamaran or "non motorized" and maybe it makes sence to ad the maximum width of the boat and "Two sails up", so we Donut want special constructions 5 m wide with Wings instead of Sails (made of cloth) Hope you understand what I mean its Worte to ad)
To try and answer your question I would drop the distinction between foil and non foil I can see that's going to twist his melon Get the record and then worry about the distinction if a foil goes for the record
Also it probably would help to mention the creator of hc, he received a prize for that particular category. Check out which category they awarded him for
Brother, I so hope you get this. That’s crazy speed. Your videos is what got me into beachcats and currently restoring and modding a Nacra 5.0. Kick some ass my man.
If it goes in, that will light the fire to go and send it harder!
Spot on! I agree with distinguishing foiling vs non foiling boats as, for the time being at least foiling boats are both very specialized and comparatively very expensive. Having this separation opens the attempts up to a much wider audience.
Congratulations on the massive speeds Joe, wishing you and yours a very happy Christmas and a fantastic 2024 😎⛵️
PS, loving the tee’s and hoodies. Thank you.
Yes! I think that these days you would exclude the 'low riders' if they had to compete with the foilers.
Very exciting stuff. I think you’re bang on with your category description. Maybe add solo or 2 crew, just a suggestion. This official category/record could prompt a future redesign of cats trying to capture every bit of speed.
Nice, my suggestions have been submitted, just waiting (again)
Well done, full send.
Sent!
The two categories you've suggested would be a good starting point for them as there will always be classes of catamaran that fit that description. When they record the records I'd imagine they will capture the class of boat. The Tornado is probably the biggest boat that could be defined as a "beach cat" so would need to make it 6.1m LOA and below, foiling and non-foiling. On a reach it would be pretty hard to beat a Hobie 16.
I thought about this too. Tornado being the biggest one of this precise category.
Yeah, that's why I thought 21 feet was a good cut-off.
You could of course have no size cut off but then our little boats will get eaten by the likes of the MOD 70
Fingers crossed that David allows it!
Let's gooo, oficial speed stick!!
I'd answer that you are personally interested in the non foiling category, but think that a foiling (or general) category would be a good idea as well.
I'd also add some sort of weight limit for the vessel to the definition, or vessel and crew. Adding 200kg to my F18 and going out with 40kt wind sounds like fun if you challenge me! 😅
Maybe not the 55kt wind of last night, but I got into 40kt by accident, without the extra weight, and the gps failed to record the one speed run we got out of it 🤬, I have no idea how fast that wild cat went that day on the reach, but I ran out of space stupidly fast.
I think you forgot to mention how popular is the particular model you are trying to set the record with, but at this point in the conversation wouldn't mean much.
Good luck with setting up the category first, and then it's time for setting a new speed worth recording in the book!
Thanks for that. I think extra weight can help up to a point.
A scientist could probably work out optimal crew weights for different boats in different wind strengths. That'd be quite a project though.
@@JoyriderTV Joe, maybe just clarifying production specs and recommended crew quantity, (or flat 2 people max) could do it.
Just some way to avoid it going crazy and remaining competitive, without modified vessels to be wider, heavier or any other modification not safety related.
lets go Joe!
Oh yeah!!!!!
I suggest you put the categories as you described them (I could not think of better) as an online petition. Then ask the JRSC to support your petition. We will all support you and maybe give it some eztra promotion to convince GWR that they should pay attention to a vibrant commuinity's interests.
If Guinness can be petitioned then yes, I think we could get a lot of support.
amazing speed!!! love it
Thanks!!
awesome stuff jo catamarans.. hobbies... always love at first flight😅
Oh yes, for sure. This was a very special run!
Hi Joy I love to watch your Videos. I wish you and your lovely Wife a Merry Chrismas and a happy new Year!
Festive Greetings to you too!
Nice blast Joe 👍 Happy Christmas to you and the crew and all the Greek friends hope to see you all in 2024 😊
Thanks Tom, Festive Greetings, probably time to wear a bit of gold!
Catamaran under 21.. dagger boreds or not
I think that's the one.
heyho Joe, i love the names of your crew members, i hope the best for the guinnes Book world rekord, i think it's difficult to find the right category, i hope the boat lengh combinatet with foiling or non foiling is the door opener to davids decision, greetings
Fingers crossed that something goes in!
Isn’t there a risk that at 21 foot you’re competing against record attempts on faster boats like tornadoes and more modern race stuff? Is there merit in keeping the length at 18ft leisure catamaran cf designated racing and foiling boats?
Love your work btw, just bought 2010 H16 ( i blame you for newly rediscovered addition !! 😂) to get back into cat sailing as last did it at Happy Surf in Vass back in 2002!!
Hi Phil, It's certainly been a long time!
Congratulations on becoming a cat sailor, I always knew that you had it in you!!!
In my research, i've found that in flat out speed, there's not much advantage with the bigger boats.
I thought that the record should include the likes of the Tornado to make it inclusive for all beach cats.
Could be a good idea to do a 16' and below category, and a 17' to 21' category, both for foiling and non-foiling, to give more resolution.
That would be ideal but the impression that I get is that Guinness doesn't want too many categories which is why we'd have to just go foiling and non foiling.
Would spi/no spi be another differentiator?
Could be in the future but to initially get a foot in the door i thought keeping it simple was a better strategy.
Thinking how would it stack up to an Australian 18 ft skiff?
I think that a skiff in the right hands, right wind could take it.
I need advice and help. I recently purchased a Hobie 16 and I am very intimidated by it. Heck, I don't even know how to rig the thing. This boat is completely different than what I am used to. No one that I know has any idea on how to set it up. If you found yourself in this situation, what would you do?
I have the Index of all instructional videos on Joyrider TV.
Pretty much everything that you need to know is here:
totaljoyrider.com/pages/joyrider-tv
If you get stuck with anything specific let me know and I'll talk about it in the next Q+A
@@JoyriderTV Joe, thank you very much!! I greatly appreciate you getting back to me and providing me with a starting point. I will go through the videos and follow the procedures. Thanks Again.
What about the spinnaker boat!
That would be included - so any type of cat with or without could take it.
I didn't want to ask for too many sub-categories as I feel that I'm having to try as hard as possible to get anything in at all.
There is no authority keeping such records so you just record the speed and put it out there and see who shoots at it. The best 10 second average is, I think, the best means of determining speed. It takes minor blips and inaccuracies out of the picture. But it might be better for one-design class associations to maintain these type records.
Yes, the 10 second average definitely is what's required for any kind of accuracy.
That's a good idea to approach the class associations to keep a leaderboard.
How fast does a Nacra 5.8 go?
I would guess you could get most boats this size up to around 23knots
Yeah man!! Number one!!!
Oooooh Yeahhhh!!!
Yo Joe, You deserve the honor, however, I see 2 things are in your way, but both barriers can be overcome.
1. The category can't be a brand name. and
2. They need to be there to monitor it. From what I know about setting records - my company set some aviation records while I was a working stiff - the recognizing authority has to be present at the time of the record so they can watch all of your data methodology.
So...
1. I think you're best bet would be to use already recognized categories. You're kind of reinventing the wheel but limiting the wheel too specifically when you're asking to be recognized. I would simply say, "hey David, how about we use the ISAF F16 and F18 design specifications for the category of this record?" It's already a well-know worldwide category of boat and it doesn't specify brand name. Someone else has already done the work for you. They've taken out the brand name of beach cats and put design specs that are accepted by a very large community.
2. You're gonna have to invite them to vasiliki. Or somewhere else where you know it's going to be blowing. What this means is that you're most likely not going to get the 26 knots you want, but you'll be able to establish the baseline. SOMEONE needs to get the F16 and/or F18 first record into Guinness, so it might as well be you. You'll have to convince them that you regularly go faster than the rest of the world because a. you're always there set up for strong winds, b. you have been doing it all over the world for many years so you know what the boat speed limit is and c. you have more recorded attempts at breaking the boat speed barriers than anyone else in the beach cat diaspora.
You could use jealousy as a weapon by pointing out that you actually are the most recognized speed attempt cataloger on the planet. If they don't want to make the effort to simply say, "this guy is the fastest, you try and go faster and we'll keep track," then YOU will usurp the title of World Record keeper for a well-recognized boat and they'll lose the opportunity to be more authoritative.
Good Luck,
DK
Thanks Dave,
I've since had another reply:
"After looking into this further, it seems our sailing record titles are monitored by an external consultant World Sailing Speed Record Council (WSSRC).
I would contact them regarding your record title and they will liaise with us regarding any attempt they deem acceptable.
Unfortunately record titles of this nature are not open for standard applications and must be verified by an external consultant.
yeewwww! go one shoe phil!!!
Oh yeah!!!!
I think you’ve got it covered. Catamaran under 21 ft foiling and catamaran under 21 ft non-foiling.
Yeah that's what I thought.
I'll go for that.
I think it is worth/important to ad SAILING- Catamaran or "non motorized"
and maybe it makes sence to ad the maximum width of the boat and "Two sails up", so we Donut want special constructions 5 m wide with Wings instead of Sails (made of cloth)
Hope you understand what I mean its Worte to ad)
@@Konfliktloeser good thinking. Wouldn't want someone just putting a 50hp engine on their Topcat and destroying the competition!
@@Konfliktloeser good point. I guess when I hear catamaran I immediately think sail so I didn’t think about that.
This is epic
I thought so!
To try and answer your question I would drop the distinction between foil and non foil I can see that's going to twist his melon
Get the record and then worry about the distinction if a foil goes for the record
Yes, that could ease the entry into the book.
im game.
I thought you might be!
both foiling and non categories.!!
For sure. Otherwise us 'low riders' don't stand a chance!
Also it probably would help to mention the creator of hc, he received a prize for that particular category. Check out which category they awarded him for
David sounds like a Karen
He's probably got somebody telling him what to do