For me vinyl always sounds better. Sound is subjective you cannot prove something sounds better than something else because it is personal opinion and everybodies hearing is different.
I worked in the plastic injection moulding industry for 30 years and we always used IPA to clean plastic in various situations, and I still use it to clean my vinyl to this day. I worked with a guy who worked in a record pressing plant and he said he used it on all his records to clean them as well.
really good to know, i already got isopropyl alcohol always on hand since i use it for a lot of cleaning, especially with electronics and pcbs, glad to hear that i wont actively dissolve my vinyl when cleaning them with it
Right On Brother! I too have read the manual that you cite. But even before reading the manual I have used straight 91% Isopropyl alchohol (IPA) applied with a cotton ball, scrubbed, then cleaned on a VPI record cleaner using a solution (25% IPA) similar to what you use, followed by a rinse using Aquafina. I use the straight IPA for vinyl records that look in mint minus condition and have a crackling sound in the background. From what I've found the straight IPA wiping removed 95% of the crackling background sound. Refer to paragraphs X.1.4 and X.1.5 in the manual which discusses material remaining on the vinyl after the pressing process. You are correct stating the vinyl community discounts a lot of information without any documented or referenced information. Keep up the good work.
Thank you for this, Rick! I’ve been searching for a great cleaning solution recipe and you delivered! I’m currently weeding through giant collection wherein many of the records are in desperate need of a bath! Just found your channel and subscribed. Looking forward to more of your content. ✌🏽 Steve
Cool video! Another benefit of alcohol on vinyl is the fact that it is a drying agent. The important thing is to avoid using any alcohol on shellac records. I would also avoid use with brittle styrene records. I’ve found that mixing my own solution isn’t worth the time. I just buy a bottle of a cleaner I trust online. I personally prefer the Spin Clean solution.
I do like the Spin-Clean solution - and I second that on the shellac. It'll dissolve them from what I understand. Someone else asked about the styrene. I hope they see your comment.
Great video, really informative, thank you. I've been using the exact same formulation (thanks London Jazz Collector) for the best part of a decade, and my records, whether second had or new, have always sounded better for it 🙂
Great coverage of a never settled issue. I've done my bit of research & experimentatio. In my experience I've never had a problem with 99% IPA, though I only use it on very dirty records as part of a pre-wash/wash process, but I always apply a final rinse. For now, my go to cleaning solution is Audio Intelligent #15 for washing & their #6 one step for a rinse. I like to use 2 Vinyl Styl RCMs. 1 for washing and the other for rinsing. Between the wash and rinse I put the record on the Record Doctor IV to vacuum of the wash. Then I use the 2nd Vinyl Styl for the rinse, and then I vacuum the rinse off. And that's it. I've chosen the Vinyl Styl RCM because, unlike the Spin Clean, they use goat hair brushes that reach into the record grooves to help dislodge dirt particles. As my record cleaning process evolves, I plan adding the Record Doctor X & a Humminguru Ultrasonic RCM.
Thank you very much for putting this out. This is the best video I have seen on record cleaning solutions yet. It's concise, explains logical rationale for your opinion, and shows a simple formula at the end! I think I am one of those people who has read and watched nearly every commentary on this subject on the internet. The vast majority of videos about this are done by people who are not presenting it from a research point of view, not quoting any research, yet professing their opinions dogmatically as fact. It's never helpful for me to hear someone's strong opinion about something unless they can explain why I should have the same opinion (other than they are a self-appointed expert since they have a TH-cam channel). 🙂 You aren't in that category. You are giving a good basis for your opinion. I'm looking forward to your in-depth wood glue analysis. 🙂 --------------- A dumb story if anybody is interested: I have some of my own anecdotal experience with using harsh cleaning methods. I have some records that were stored in a basement too close to a wall from which the boxes absorbed water for many months. The covers were Basically entirely ruined and many of the inner sleeves stuck on to the records which were also covered in mold. Indeed, most people would just toss them out and get replacements. However, since many of these were rare (in my perspective) or sentimental, and I don't spend much money on records: they were worth it to me to try to clean if possible. And, if nothing else, worthwhile to test harsh cleaning methods on. I couldn't really make them worse. Some of them actually required scrubbing with soap and water in order to get stuff off of them. It's like they were thrown in a mud pit. I tried rinsing with flowing water as much as possible in order to reduce the amount of grit I was rubbing across the records. My conclusion: you can do a heck of a lot to vinyl records without doing any noticeable damage. Sidenote: Many of the labels on the records themselves were completely obliterated. Thanks to Shazam I could figure out exactly what they were 🤣
Good old Shazam. Thanks for the story, Matt - I definitely was interested. It's also good to hear how durable they actually are. It's easy to forget they are hunks of PVC and not as fragile as we feel they are (although I can't help but handle them with kid gloves).
@@TheJoyofVinylRecords I do have to admit that the records that were covered in mold and gunk don't sound as good as if they had been handled well. At some point I'm going to get an ultrasonic cleaner and see if that improves them
I have an ultrasonic cleaner. After watching your video, I’ll use 5% isopropyl, surfactant and distilled water instead of surfactant and distilled water only. I know many use alcohol and have no problems. I'm joining the club. I also rinse and vacuum. Interestingly enough, some use only distilled in their UL cleaners and say it's all you need. My feeling is that some alcohol and surfactant added to the water is more thorough as long as you rinse afterward. I'd like to see you try UL cleaning and get your take on it. The new Humminguru looks very good. I use a basic 6litre unit with add-ons like the Vevor, because its cheap. Its just not as elegant and a bit more work. I'd love a Degritter, but its definitely way out of my budget. You may want to contact them and see if they’ll send you a demo unit to try. Its a fine piece of kit!
Hi Larry! I'm actually testing out the HumminGuru NOVA as I write this. Hopefully will have something to post about it soon. Would love to try the Degritter but, as you stated, it's way out of my price range too.
Rick, great video. I also have a similar cleaning method and solution, and primarily rely on the Tergikleen as the primary wetting agent, and never considered the higher concentration of IPA, I have always kept them in separate spray bottles. I believe that once the world ends, there will be roaches that survive and vinyl enthusiast arguing about the proper way to clean records, that's it! With all the cleaning debates I have seen for many years, I believe in one common truth for care of your records, like a practicing physician Hippocratic oath, DO NO HARM! Plain and simple, do no harm with nothing left behind on the record...80% Distilled Water by itself with gentle cleaning will solve 80% of your dirty record issues. It is the rest of those ingredients that get to those other underlying groove concerns
Another helpful and informative video! I have a question: as someone on a limited budget, I’m reluctant to spend over $100 on a record cleaning machine (I’ve been mostly pleased with the results of my spin cleaner; and, thanks to your previous advice, I’m a firm believer in doing a rinse cycle), so my question is, should I purchase a second spin doctor to use as a dedicated “rinser”? I usually clean from 4 to 6 discs at a time, and then I thoroughly rinse out the plastic container and try to soak and “press” out the cleaning solution from the pads before filling up with fresh distilled water. But I worry that there may still be residue from the cleaning solution that will continue to cling to the pads and therefore the discs. Am I worrying needlessly? (Oh, and as of now, I use the recommended spin doctor solution for cleaning).
Hey Biff! I actually have had the same thoughs as you about the pads and the solution residue. I try not to let it worry me - anything left over is minimal and really won't hurt. But I do think a separate spin-clean for a distilled water only rinse is a great idea.
I have the knosti disco antistat 2 which works pretty good. I heard it is a bit better than the spin clean because it has different brushes. If you think about getting a 2nd cleaner maybe concider this one.
I use the same three ingredients but less IPA since i use an ultrasonic system. I have read about the flashpoint of IPA so I adhere to those guidelines. Good information here and im always willing to learn.
I have always used IPA in my solutions. I manually clean using 12.5% IPA 87.5% distilled water and a very small amount of Triton 100 as my surfactant. I use small square paint pads to work the solution, then I vinyl vac it off. I then do a distilled water rinse and vac it off. After all this I do ultrasonic cleaning in the same solution, but IPA is reduced to 5%, and I always rinse and vac everything off. It's alot of work, but I only need to do it once. Great to hear your thoughts. They are well put together!! Cheers!!
Question. Why is 99% ipa required/recommended when the cleaning formula contains 80% water anyway. Couldn’t you just use 91% and adjust the ratio accordingly. Thx! Love the content.
That's exactly what I was thinking. Just try to adjust the amount of distilled water to account for the extra distilled water in the diluted isopropyl alcohol. The only problem I could see with it is if there are things other than just distilled water in the diluted alcohol.
I have used 99% IPA every time except for one when I couldn’t find it. I remember I use 70% IPA that time and adjusted accordingly, it was basic math and it worked very well
Good video and good advice. I work at a record store where on auction we often sell records for between 3000 and 6000 and $12,000 apiece. I think you know what store that is. We use a VPI cleaning machine and a solution consisting of 95% distilled water, 2.5% of photo flow as a surfactant, 2.5% alcohol. The alcohol evaporates. And the records are clean and no one has ever complained. And you can hear the difference.
@@outspokengeniuscan you feel the difference between a clean car and a polished car? Then I am sure you can hear a difference between an oily and degreased record. Also, if it's possible to hear water travel through plumbing in your house, then electricity running through wires probably also can create an audible noise too.
Hi Rick, as always a great video! I‘ve been using this formula since 1977 - and it hasn‘t done any harm neither to my records nor to my styluses. I use the liquid with a second arm DURING the playing of the record - it just moves along. The result is an absolutely clear sound without any pops and clicks. It sounds like a CD, only better!🤭 Some say: once wet - always wet. Maybe they are right, but so what? I‘ll keep doing this until my ‚last record‘… Greetings from Berlin, Harry
What do you mean? Here's my interpretation. You spray the record with cleaning solution have two tone arms. The first in line cleans the record and the second is to listen to. Is that it ?
@@Batman-n1q1v Sorry, I can‘t express myself in English very well. No, it works in a different way: The second arm is fixed on the left upper side of the turntable and is filled with the liquid. At the front it has a Little brush letting through a small amount of the fluid. So while playing, there is a continuous wet track of about one centimeter moving along from the beginning to the end of the record. The needle swims in the fluid all way through. At the end you only have to dry a small amount of fluid off the last grooves. There are absolutely no clicks and pops anymore. And stylus and vinyl are cooled down by the fluid.
I use ilfotol and tergikleen mixed, best of both fluids. Always rinse after like you said! Step 1-project wash it Step 2- ilfotol/tergikleen mix Step 3- pure distelled rinse Vacuum between steps
@TheJoyofVinylRecords it was inspired by one of pbthal's videos. I couldn't find the antistatic ingredient he used but the one I tried left stylus residue.
@simonhickie7589 i think the ilfotol helps the tergikleen "wet" better. I used to use the LJC solution and really liked how that wet compared to just the tergikleen
Rinse solution: how about using a Brita water pitcher to clean distilled rinse water rather than discarding each use. I am skeptical of the HumminGuru filter and the tank leaks when pouring into the basin. I haven't located a level II distilled water supplier. I am using a Sears distiller - what looks like an old time 1 gallon coffee pot base but with chilling coils and a fan on top of it. With an inexpensive TDS conductivity meter the distilled water reads zero whereas my filtered well water reads 80 ppm and after a Brita water pitcher/filter it reads 60 ppm. I would hope a Brita would keep the rinse water cleaner. I 3D printed a tank for the HumminGuru. My concern is with plastic shedding. The print required support which makes a mess of one side - requires sanding. I start with a wire brush on a Dremel Tool and sanding may rub grit into the plastic. Under a microscope it looks like a piece melted into the plastic. I used a transparent 3D printer filament. I will use this tank for cleaning solution and the original tank for rinse water. I also printed a return-water filter holder which would be glued to rhe lid under the middle hole. The HumminGuru filter lays flat with room for water to spread out over it. May help the cleaning solution. Or, another Brita? Probably best to pay the $60 on Amazon for a HumminGuru tank. But, where is the fun in that. I checked HumminGuru onine which showed $39-ish plus S&H which showed as 120 - what currency? So, i cancelled that order.
Hi Steven. I suppose if the Brita clears all contaminants it's a good idea. I have a review coming of the HumminGuru NOVA and the one thing I called out was need for a second tank. Very cool that you made your own!
I can tell you that your comments/suggestions for record cleaning are spot on. The late great Len Gregory (aka The Cartridge Man) taught me how to mix the isopropyl solution and recommended I buy a Moth II cleaning machine. While the solution is fine, the machine is bulky and very noisy! Len quoted scientists in Denmark who had suspended vinyl in neat isopropyl for years without detriment. Remember, manufacturers have invested time and money in inventing 'snake oil', as Len put it.
Second comment: You threw a teaser in about the Wally Tools tonearm hammock alignment thingy. I am very interested to hear your take… I watched all their videos on the device and it motivated me to take a closer look at how my stylus lands and if there is any shift at all on landing. With a 5x lens and an azimuth glass, I watched my 50 year old tonearm drop dead center on a flat acrylic platter without an ounce of the problematic stylus shift demonstrated in their videos . So whatever problem these guys are solving, I am skeptical that such an issue would be common on an otherwise well calibrated table. Rabbit hole!
hey Brett! It sounds like you may not have to be concerned given your experience and test. I made a video a while back about my use of the Wally Tools. I find it indispensable when it comes to swapping out cartridges or reviewing turntables for the channel. That being said - if I had to choose between the WallySkater or the WallyTractor, I might pick the WallySkater.
Thanks for this. Just getting into collecting, and learning more about cleaning. What do you use for your rinse solution after you run it through this cleaning combo? Just distilled water? Thanks!
Thanks for the video! My record cleaning formula is a bit more conservative. I use a Vinyl Styl bath in conjunction with a Vinyl Vac. 15oz Distilled Water 1oz 99.9 IPA Ilfotol just enough until the solution visibility covers/coats the Grove of my test Vinyl. Typically 10-20 drops from an eyedropper. Spin On You Crazy Diamonds!
I don’t use alcohol to clean my dishes because it doesn’t remove anything (it is a wet solvent so it’ll do a little) but it’ll kill the stuff that remains on the surface. I use soapy water. I do the same when washing my hands, hair, face, and body. I don’t use anything flammable to clean myself or my records. I have a home-made vacuum setup with a lazy-susan and a shop vac that cost me about $40. I can spin it slowly or quickly in either direction and I can use the wand at any angle. I use a PVC-safe degreaser/detergent mixed in with distilled water. I then rinse the records with straight distilled water and it works beautifully. The trick is scrubbing the surface with very wet microfiber brushes. If you just wipe a brush over the surface it won’t get down into the groove. Scrubbing is key but it has to be very wet. Dry microfiber on dry PVC is bad. I purchased (and returned) an ultrasonic machine (and also had someone professionally wash some of my records including an ultrasonic step only to return them in cheap paper inner sleeves - so I had to wash them again) and heard 0% difference from the vacuum cleaning. I have a hospital-grade nonalcoholic cleaner I can use if I need to disinfect vinyl, a cover, or labels. Lastly, Titebond II wood glue is, by far, the best “hack” to get vinyl records deep clean - nothing else even comes close. The glue needs to be pressed into the groove with some muscle. If you drizzle it onto the surface it won’t do much. After removing the dry glue I wash and rinse like usual. I’m sure someone reading this has their own way of doing things and that’s fine by me. I know my way works and isn’t damaging my collection.
L'art du son must be avoided with vacuum cleaning machines that have an internal tank. Due to the missing alcohol, it will quickly develop a stinky biofilm which can be nightmare to get out of the RCM later.
I love this video. I have long felt the issue was never black & white and depended on concentration, frequency of use, how much (and what type of) gunk was on the record (that the alcohol would be interacting with instead of straight vinyl), and so on. I have used 91% IPA to spot clean extremely stubborn bits of gunk that were causing skips, sticks, and loud pops, and the records never showed any audible or visible damage. I also believe that any cleaning in excess will cause some kind of degradation long term, and I don't think cleaning a record every single time I play it is a great idea (or necessary). I really need to read this piece. I also prefer to rely on research and data than clichés and peer pressure, haha. Very well-done, as always. One thing I do wonder: Is IPA it safe for styrene records? I do think I once charred a (cheap) 45 with IPA because it sounded totally blasted after I gave it a wipe-down with the stuff, haha.
Good question on the styrene. I've never come across anything on it. I don't think it's touched on in the paper either. Might be worth looking into since there a few of those records floating around out there.
Excellent! downloaded the paper, still have to read it. Re flammability of alcohol in ultrasonic cleaner, I have used 70-95% ethanol in a sonicator to clean shells from debris before putting them into the scanning electron microscope.. Typically in small quantities ~5 ml, but nothing ever happened. I don't smoke while doing that (don't smoke, period), but no need to be too paranoid. Similar with picric acid, infamous for being a contact explosive when dry. I opened plenty of screw lid jars with encrusted dry PA in the threads, and nothing has ever happened there either. I put a towel around it, but never needed it. I think the bigger issue with alcohols is that it is an excellent solvent for dies and colors. So don't let any alcohol get onto your labels or you may get an unintentional psychedelic version of your record. And then there is the smell issue. Isopropyl has a particular odor, as does Ilfotol (used to do B&W, even some C6 and C41). And then the question of why use two wetting agents, isopropyl AND Ilfotol? Maybe the paper will shed some light on this.
Good video. I had to revisit Neil Antin's guide and sure enough, it includes using IPA. Is there a reason for excluding ethanol in favor of IPA? One disclaimer you missed: IPA is toxic if ingested or breathed at high concentrations for extended periods. IPA ingested can seriously harm or kill with a little as 250 mL (known as the single lethal dose). One minor clarification: Mr. Antin indicated a range for the ratio of IPA to distilled water as "about 15% to 20% being the optimum concentration" and "even 2.5% IPA in water can reduce the surface tension to about 60 dynes/cm, reducing the water-IPA solution contact angle with the record improving the wetting and improving the cleaning especially for fine particulate."
Is the ultrasonic warning based on the assumption that water will be heated in an ultrasonic? Mine has heating controls separate from the on/off- I don't have to heat the water. The ultrasonic action does warm the water, but I generally avoid any temperature close to that flash point.
I've used Windex on a $6,000 forty-five, etc. No complaints. Wood glue (Titebond II) also. Your records, especially less-than-perfect 45s, sound much improved. I haven't had any fires but no promises.
Thanks for the video! If I understood you correctly, after cleaning the records with Spin Clean or similar using your solution, you recommend rinsing with distilled water after that. Does it need to be done immediately, while the record is still wet? I might need another Spin Clean device then, or is it OK if the records get dry in between?
From what I understand that question has been floating around for years and to date there hasn't been a definitive answer or actual proof that it does damage. You'll read things about leeching plasticizers, but that's really only parroting what someone else said (I did it too!).
I think the audiophile man asked a bunch and the answer was basically we don't know or care that's not our problem. th-cam.com/video/duzVUTRLET8/w-d-xo.htmlsi=zWbKZFabLJUM005a
Hi Rick, my solution is a variant on yours. 20% IPA, 80% Distilled Water and a few drops of Tergitol. The last ingredient is another wetting agent. In the UK we call IPA rubbing alcohol. I have seen versions with a drop of washing up liquid which, I guess, is another wetting agent. In comparison, the Project cleaning solution is much more expensive. Discogs has a few different cleaning methods in their review, including wood glue. Best, Pat
Great video. Exactly the same formula sent to me with by Nick who makes the SqueakyClean vacuum, which is IMO superior to all other sub-$500 RCM options and seems to fly under the radar on TH-cam. Review opportunity?
I just lightly damp a cloth with ipa/distilled water 1/4 ish ratio, however i don't think it gets that wet to be necessary to clean with only distilled water afterwards ? I think it would probably evaporate within 2min anyways with the amount i apply
Neil Antin's ebook is my go-to resource for record cleaning. I generally use the following approach: 1. Preclean with Ecover zero/IPA/water; 2. vacuum dry; 3. Acid wash (white distilled spirit vinegar + neat surfactant; 4. vacuum dry; 5. Rinse; 6 Vacuum dry; 7. Final clean (Dehypon LS54, Benzalkonium Chloride, water); 8. Vacuum dry; 9. Final rinse; 10 vacuum dry; 11. final air dry. It sounds long winded. In practice, it takes about 15 minutes per record. The results at least equal those achieved with my ultrasonic tank cleaner with 0.6rpm spinner. Even when doing an ultrasonic clean, there's still the need for a pre-clean to remove oil based contaminants and also a final rinse and vacuum. Neil cautions not to do the acid wash with a commercial vacuum based record cleaner as the acid may damage internal metal components. As I use a DIY Vinyl Vac clone and a mainly plastic wet/dry vacuum I do the acid wash stage. I've also used Ilfotol/IPA and Tergitol in my cleaning solutions. Triton X-100 is also sometimes used. However, it's banned in the UK/EU. It's also a pig to rinse off.
I have been using my home made solution of the %20 alcohol , distilled water a drop of Dawn dish detergent and a drop of rinse aid for around 8 or 9 years now. Recently adjusted to less alcohol as I sensed it was a little strong. Now about 5 - 10% . Before that used the commercial record cleaner. Never had any problems I know of. I clean all my records by hand with microfibre cloths.
A TH-camr from the UK did an extensive trial of what percentage of IPA is effective and found no improvement in cleaning using more than 3% IPA . I use Mobile Fidelity Plus Enzyme Cleaner with 3% IPA and my Loricraft vacuum machine . I also use Mobile Fidelity's quad-distilled water (and a dedicated rinse brush) to rinse & vacuum TWICE to ensure sparkling clean . In my profession I cleaned many things hundreds of times . Fanatically .
Good work! I used IPA in my ultrasonic machine several years ago. Got a interesting effect.. Normally using ultrasonic you don't see the "scrubbing bubbles"/micro bubbles.. It is like noting is happening when looking into the solution. Yes, you can do the aluminum foil test and see that getting shredded. But when I used IPA then the microbubbles were visible and very profound. Just that you can see that something is happening were satisfying.. I don't know what percentage I had, but it were "a lot". Very wasteful anyway.😂
Hi Rick, i just watched some of your old videos and i noticed the video quality used to be much better. Also i miss the old leader music and logo in recent videos. And i noticed your editing is becoming more busy with effects and text overlay. What made you change your video recording and editing routine? I think you should stick to your original simple style and let your clever observations and honest explanations do the talking, no fancy effects needed!
I use Everclear from the liquor store, which is ethanal (or ethyl alcohol). IPA is 'wood alcohol or rubbing alcohol". I don't use IPA, because when it evaporates it leaves a residue. Ethanol leaves no residue. I learned this when working in physics lab (Positron beam lab). We used 100% ethanol (you cannot get this unless you are certified lab like a university) for our last solvent cleaning of a very low-pressure (10 to the power of -22 torr, almost a vacuum) flight tube. I use a 1% solution with distilled water as rinse solution for cleaning records. The ethanol reduces the surface tension of the water allowing the solution to wet the groves more completely and evaporates cleanly (no residue). A bottle of Everclear will last a long time at this strength, unless you make trash can punch.
The only 🥃 I use when enjoying all music formats …is a nice bourbon….and if the munchies strike 🍕 Seriously,proper record handling and minimal cleaning(a quality record brush) ..and unless you’ve been neglectful in your handling ..they should be sufficient. That being said …you’re on the right path SHOULD you need a deeper cleaning routine and gear . It’s Canadian Thanksgiving 🍁🦃.. Have a great Sunday
My experience has been really different, since even new, never before used albums sometimes come out of the sleeve with dirt on them, popping and clicking in certain parts.
@@TheJoyofVinylRecords the best of this season to you and yours . Going to Toronto Audiofest next weekend …I’ll send pics 🙂 Looking forward to new vinyl experiences and the “wireless” Focals ..someone called them the worlds most expensive cat scratching posts 🤣
@@darrenlewis5403 if it works better than the project stuff thats all I care about. When the project stuff isn’t vacuumed off the record quickly it leaves a film.
I can't imagine it's bad. When I first bought a Spin-Clean I used to use their fluid as well. I would recommend a post-clean rinse with only distilled water in the Spin-Clean to remove any cleaning agent they add to their mix.
Good video but I would never ever use isopropyl alcohol on my ultrasonic cleaning machine because I don't want to take any risk of ruining my records so what I use for solutions that I tried out and use are tergikleen, kodak photo flo, the groovinator and the groovewasher ultrasonic cleaning solution and they all do a great job cleaning my records and had no issues with my records so these are the cleaning methods that I will stick with.
I would tend to not use it in an ultrasonic. I know folks do, and it should be fine as long as things are rinsed and the concentration isn't too high .
I found Kleen Screen screen cleaning solution (alcohol, distilled water, surfactant) used with an extra fine micro fiber cloth removes 99% (or more) of crackling noise. I’ve saved countless albums with some slightly firm rubbing along the grooves. I’ve made old first press Beatles LP’s play like new with no detriment to album life or groove integrity. I kick myself for not knowing this my whole life. Now ALL my albums play like new or near mint. No fancy machine or high expense products work better. If you haven’t tried it you’re missing out. (The first couple plays will have you cleaning your stylus as excess lint-like ‘dust’ comes up. I use a gel cleaner. After that you won’t need any cleaning at all for a pristine play)
I use 92% which is all I can find here for years, mixed with distilled water. Three tablespoons of the IPA and the rest of the 8oz bottle with the distilled water. Works well for me.
I have tried various cleaning methods over the past 45 years of collecting lps. The best and easiest method is ultrasonic. I bought a Vevor machine for $150 delivered about 8 months ago and have cleaned 100s of lps. I use Groovewasher G2 and G Sonic solutions to preclean and US clean finished on a 35 year old NittyGritty vacuum machine and the results are astonishing. Lps sound like new in some cases. I won't play a record before cleaning it. Highly recommend an ultrasonic for lps.
I expected a video with the default fallacies why you shouldn't use IPA on your records, but found the opposite instead. This has been such a relief! *Finally* someone who knows what he's talking about! Thanks for taking the time to perform due diligence - this is what sets you apart from all the ill informed TH-cam content creators! 👍 Oh btw, the only thing I would add to this is that there are just two rare exceptions where IPA shouldn't be used: shellac and polystyrene records
Vacuum tubes - can see them work, sort of, and can understand them, not that transistors are difficult. People wrote volumes on both. Which sounds better? Can depend on circuit architecture. I think my transformer coupled ECC99 preamp sounds smooth and clear with low noise. I added a phono stage with 6922's. Fun project, straight forward design, no current sources as my other all 6922 balanced pre has. Both sound great. There is something about tubes that pulls me in.
When using this solution that you use, if I were to use it in my spin clean, would you use this solution for the entire bath of the spin clean? Or just add three caps to a bath of distilled water , like you would with the solution that comes with the spin clean?
It would be fine to do either way actually. The Spin-Clean doesn't hold alot so three capfulls will still do the trick. Just make sure you do a rinse cycle of distilled water only after.
I used Isopropylic alcohol in my Ultrasonic Cleaner Machine 5% then 95% Destilled Water in 30 degrees celsius and i have not problems...Greetings from Chile...!!!
Very nice video. Your formula seems legit but ask your photograpic store about Ilfotol... . It has a shelf life of only 2 or 3 years my photograpic store told me. These 500ml bottles doesn't last forever unfortunatel and you only need a small amount. For my purpose ( 1000 LP's) it's overkill. I tried it to but I don't hear a difference between Ilfotol and a neutral rinsing agent which is cheaper anyway. I have also a small bottle of Amaloco H10 which is also a wetting agent I still have to try out, but has a longer shelf life. When I started my cleaning journey I also started off with 20% alcohol but the mixture did something to the plastics of the knosti. It develiped a leak in the housing. Then I bought a new one and lowered to 10%. It did the job perfectly. Since then I lowered my Isopropanol percentage for my tests and settled at 5%. Same results and cheaper. Maybe the spin clean is made from different materials, so it can withstand a higher alcohol percentage, I don't know.
Any other rinsing agents that you would recommend? I always figured the shelf life advertised on ilfotol was for lab effectiveness and a bit on the conservative side, but perhaps I am wrong.
@TheJoyofVinylRecords you can extend it if you store it properl but it ha a EOL. I'm no photographer so I have to rely what experts tell me. I've used a diswahing rince agent without parfums, chemicals and added colours from Ecover with very good results. Because I perform a double rinse with destilled water afterwards all of it is gone. Why two baths of destilled water? The first bath gets a bit contaminated with a bit of the remaining washing fluid after a few records which you wahsh off with the destilled water. The second bath with destilled water is to finish it off. Is it necessary? No but It's a mental thing so I know there is no residue left. Now I'm trying Amaloco H10 wetting agent and the results are the same but it's more expensive but I can get it in a smaller bottle at our local photograpic store. In my experience a 3 or 4 step cleaning process, is more important then the brand of the wetting agent. I could get 4 Knosti's dirt cheap, €15 each secondhand, so it's a multiple bath solution very cheap. It keeps me busy in the winter time🍷I'm always looking for cheap solutions.
I have been using 70% IPA alcohol with distilled water for quite a while and also Groovewasher record cleaning solution as of late. Both really work excellent.
@levihilton1318 0 seconds ago I am going to try this on ma few of my records. But, I have a couple questions. 1st, I am going to make the solution, place it in a small spray bottle and use it.....but what do you suggest I use to rub it on the records with? A 'Q" tip? Cotton ball? Some type of "Soft brush" like a tooth brush? 2nd what do you suggest I wipe the solution off with? Is there a specific rag/cloth or something else used to wipe off the solution as to not scratch or damage the record? 3rd, I am going to also spray the record with the distilled water for step 3 and then wipe clean again with the recommended cloth. Does this sound about right?
Hi Levi. If I didn't have a machine like the Record Doctor X, I would use a clean microfibre cloth both to apply and to remove. And yes - definitely rinse it as you mentioned afterward - either with the microfiber if nothing else (or a Spin-Clean, which is great). Oh - and protect the label when doing this.
The book is 192 pages of definitions and a little on results, not that I read every page. Need the 10 page summary - use this surfactant, which products in what dilution to avoid separate rinse. Having to vacuum the rinse water off using a pad that touches the record seems to defeat Ultrasonic cleaning. A second HumminGuru water tank could be used to rinse the record and flush/dilute chemicals in the pump and basin.
So, actually you got 20% alcohol content liquid and some "ilfotol", something that I used in seventies and I think this is the main agent of improvement - it removes static. As for alcohol itself I got mixed feeling, what it does is: 1. dissolves dirt/carries away the dirt particles 2. evaporates. Quicker evaporation doesn't do any good - dirt particles won't evaporate, so they'd stay somewhere on the surface of record. I'd rather replace alcohol with a drop of some pure soap and rinse it in a distilled water. And rinse it again. You can use an old well washed towel to dry up the record afterwards. It works for me. Cheers!
I think the larger portion of distilled water in the mix ratio will prevent rapid evaporation of the isopropyl to allow the solution to be vacuumed away. Dirt should remain suspended in the solution until that time.
The Jungle Site sells 99% IPA in quart bottles under their "Maxtite" brand, at a fairly reasonable price, and I use it in my record cleaning solution, although my solution is only about 6% alcohol. Otherwise, it is the same as yours. I do use it in my ultrasonic cleaner. As with any flammable substance, you just have to be careful. Being a non-smoker helps.
@3:31 "I decided it was really time for me to do some real research into whether alcohol is bad or not." It is good, according to my bartender (as long as your records are not driving). Kidding aside, I use "record time" by Musical Surroundings, because that is what the store (where I purchased my turntable and stereo) happened to have. The president of Musical Surroundings, Garth Leerer (who I have met a few times, when he was a guest at the store, demoing new gear) distributes the Clearsudio line of turntables, tone-arms, and cartridges (as well as other high-end brands). Check out photos of the Clearaudio Statement turntable, and some reviews. So I figured that based on all of the above, the "record time" fluid is probably a good and safe choice. The store also uses it. The label for the "record time" bottle reads "Enzyme-based fluid for LPs ..." No other information is mentioned of what is in the bottle. So it is a mystery fluid. I have been using it for nearly two decades, and have no issues. My records get shiny clean, via my VPI 16.5 record cleaning machine. I also have an AudioDesk ultrasonic record cleaning machine. It requires distilled water and a small bottle of their record cleaning fluid. The label on their fluid provides no information on its contents (yet more mystery fluid). I stopped using the ultrasonic machine years ago, because: 1) The (distilled) water evaporates. Since I do not clean my records often, I would end up cleaning 1 to 3 records, and the distilled water would mostly evaporate the next time I was ready to use the machine. 2) A new gallon of distilled water meant another bottle of their cleaning fluid. And they charge an outrageous amount for their cleaning fluid. So it was costing a small fortune to periodically clean a few records. 3) Even with trying to convince myself that the ultrasonic machine made a difference, my ears heard no improvement. If there was any improvement, it was not worth dragging home gallons of distilled water, and paying exorbitant prices for the cleaning fluid. 4) It takes a few minutes for the ultrasonic machine to clean and dry a record. Whereas, my VPI 16.5 machine takes a few seconds. 5) All ultrasonic record cleaning machines are good for only nearly clean records. The ultrasonic machine explodes bubbles in the record's grooves, where the bristles from a brush used on a conventional cleaning machine would not reach some microscopic debris in the grooves. But if you have a visibly dirty record, then good luck having any ultrasonic record cleaning machine wipe off the dirt. You can run such a dirty record through the ultrasonic machine several times, and still see some dirt. Whereas, a conventional record cleaning machine will quickly do 99.9% of the cleaning job. Is it then worth following up with an additional 0.1% cleaning with an ultrasonic record cleaning machine? My experience is "No". My VPI 16.5, along with the "record time" cleaning fluid gets the job done. If the fluids for my ultrasonic machine were free, I would still stick to my VPI machine. I might never use my ultrasonic cleaning machine again. To fill it with distilled water, and expensive cleaning fluid, hear no benefit, and then the water evaporates, just makes it a waste of time, even if the expensive fluid was free and even if someone else lugged home the gallons and gallons of distilled water and kept refilling the tank. Lastly, when it comes to the various fluids... They are probably all safe for your records, assuming you dry your records right away. What concerns me is whether or not any residue might remain that could transfer to your stylus, and might it be harmful to your stylus. Since the distributor of Clearaudio also distributes "record time" cleaning fluid, and my local high-end store uses it, then I am comfortable using it.
I worry as well about residue. The rinse cycle after is essential for me. As far as ultrasonics - I've never used one before. I'm testing out the HumminGuru now for a future video.
Thanks!! Haha … I had to laugh b/c your solution is exactly the same as the one I use! Only difference is I use undenatured 99.9% ethanol (only b/c I have supplies from the lab). I also do a rinsing cycle with just distilled water at the end.
I use 99.99% lab grade IPA (40%) +99.99% lab grade distilled water (60%) plus two drops of triton x-100 is this safe ? been using it for years without any problem . rinse with water only than vacuum
It's really close to what I use Victor in my mixture. I use Ilfotol and the 99%/Distilled mix is 20% IPA and 80% distilled. I also rinse and the a vacuum machine.
I'm not against alcohol, but I only put a bottle cap of it in 500ML distilled water plus one drop of neutral dish soap and one drop of Jetdry rince agent. I use à VPI vacuum machine. So it's mainly water. Might consider ultrasonic soon, IDK... Thanks for the video.
I have mixed feelings with vinyl cleaners. If I purchase a really dirty album I use 75/25 distilled and 91% isopropyl and vacuum followed by my goto; 1 gallon distilled water and 15 drops TergiKleen, followed by a thorough, thorough, thorough distilled water rinse and vacuum using Pro-Ject VC-E2. The key is rinse.
Here’s an easy fix me isopropyl alcohol reduce the percentage to 6 or 7 percent. And before anyone says it won’t work it won’t work try it. I’ve used it. It works great, and it eliminates the issue of flammability in a ultrasonic cleaner.
I know there are purist members of the VC with $8k record cleaners who swear by water only, but how do they clean grease and fingerprints off of their records? It seems like at least in limited use, alcohol could be an effective, relatively harmless substance to use especially if it’s washed from the record.
I own a Degritter, though it is only a lowly, outdated, ineffective version 1 machine (just kidding). The company's recent firmware updates have created a nice two-tank cleaning process, which includes a pre-wash and a rinse. I'm using the following solutions: Into wash tank goes 1,400ml distilled water and 4 drops Tergikleen and 1ml of Degriter's own cleaning solution (I get a sudsy look if I use 2). The 4 drops of surfactant is roughly equivalent to maybe 11-12 drops per gallon, so I'm being conservative in the amount used. I always run my Degritter on the "heavy" cycle, which includes 6 minutes of actual ultrasonic cleaning. The Degritter then asks you to remove the "wash" tank and put in the "rinse" which is filled with 1310ml distilled water and 90ml 99% alcohol (roughly a 7% quantity). Degritter rinses the LP briefly then drys it. Total time is 15 minutes. My reasoning for the alcohol in the rinse is that it certainly can act on things that water alone doesn't. Since no ultrasonic activity is occurring in the rinse cycle, I guess there would be no harm making the percentage higher. I picked 7% based on a comment from a UK U-tuber that too much alcohol has deleterious effects on the vinyl. Apparently your research says that isn’t so. I may very well increase the %. But what I’m doing normally has been outstanding, to say the least.
@@TheJoyofVinylRecords I would like to add a couple more comments about what I find the Degritter does so well on most LP's I have, which are mainly classical "Shaded Dogs", Decca, EMI & other smaller European labels purchase 20 to 30 years ago. I owned a VPI 16.5 for many years and many were washed previous to owning the Degritter. I feel the VPI and the Degritter both make records quieter and remove some, but not all, tics & pops - especially load pops that you can liken to a giant "boulder" sitting in the groove waiting for your stylus to crash into it. Here is how the Degritter has excelled over the VPI: 1) Background surface noise is greatly reduced by comparison. Many Decca's, for example, were pressed on rather poor vinyl and have a steady surface noise character many listeners are familiar with and most of us just "get used to it". But the Degritter amazingly cleans most of that up. Sure, it isn't brand new pressing quiet but darn close at times! There are instrumental details that become much easier to discern too. 2) Tics & pops that aren't removed often seem to sound softer or more "muffled" prior to the ultrasonic cleaning. I don't have an explanation for that. Regarding the use of alcohol in a novel way, I decided to try something on a few records where a really obnoxious pop exists that even Degritter doesn't remove. Knowing where the pop is, and with the record on a firm surface and soft cloth under it, I saturate a tight weave cloth (like a lens cleaning cloth) with 70% or higher alcohol and then wipe the circumference area (where the pop was heard) fairly firmly. I re-saturate the cloth and repeat process, then quickly re-clean the LP with the Degritter. To my happiness, I have gotten rid of many of those big pops. Of course, there is an area of the LP that gets soaked with alcohol and rubbed firmly. I sorta worry about this not being good for the vinyl but so far I don't hear anything bad resulting from it.
Why use 99% IPA when being mixed with distilled water? Aren't you just lowering the concentration once mixed? Isn't a standard (off the shelf) IPA at 70%, just a lower concentration of alcohol than the 99% IPA?
Finally some words of reason! IMHO the alcohol-free cleaner hype has been nothing else than clever sales pitch. I have been using an IPA-based solution for many years on my LPs, and they're all in great shape. To me, there's another parallel sales hype with "warnings" to stay away from liquid stylus cleaners. It's funny how quickly some forget that many used to play their records wet. Once again, it's all claims without any evidence to show.
@@TheJoyofVinylRecords yes I read that before (and aldo to prevent static ,but I think you can eliminate it later with a Milty Zerostat 3 Anti-Static Gun). But, if after use tap water (for example, to wash a very dirty lp under the tap) I re-clean it with proper vinyl-record cleaner liquid... it does't destroy those impurities? I have been use this technique and never a problem... but no one explained exactly if the use of tap water once is a death sentence for the record and why...
Records are made of polyvinyl chloride. Does isopropyl alcohol damage the plastic bottles it's sold in? Alcohol can help loosen or dissolve sticky contaminants (traces of packaging glues, peanut butter and jelly fingerprints) that sometimes get onto the surface and into the grooves of a record. It works. (I use a drop or two of surfactant [Triton X-100 or a custom GrooveWasher concentrate solution], and sometimes a dash of 99 percent IPA in a gallon of distilled warm water, using a 40 khz ultrasonic jewelry cleaning machine with a revolving spindle designed specifically for LPs.) If you used only pure distilled water, there's no "wetting agent" to break the surface tension so the ultrasonic treatment doesn't do what it's supposed to do. If only more people would take a few minutes to do some comparative research before jumping to their conclusions... Thanks for being conscientious!
I've always felt that alcohol in moderation wasn't harmful, although abstaining from alcohol is probably best. However, I do enjoy a nice IPA beer occasionally at around 6 - 7 alcohol by volume. Wait, are we still talking about cleaning records? Anyhow, thanks for the informative video, Rick. Now I'm going to listen to some Scorpions and have beer. Cheers 🍻 😂
I know that if you drink some alcohol, the sound coming from the vinyl sounds better than high-end digital.
It does for me 🥃
For me vinyl always sounds better. Sound is subjective you cannot prove something sounds better than something else because it is personal opinion and everybodies hearing is different.
If you drink IPA, you'll be heading the emergency room, try the ethanol (Everclear) with pineapple juice, ginger ale, and grenadine.
@@ChuckCelticCarNut I drink IPA's all the time.
I always clean my flac files with Absolut Vodka.
I worked in the plastic injection moulding industry for 30 years and we always used IPA to clean plastic in various situations, and I still use it to clean my vinyl to this day.
I worked with a guy who worked in a record pressing plant and he said he used it on all his records to clean them as well.
Good to know!
really good to know, i already got isopropyl alcohol always on hand since i use it for a lot of cleaning, especially with electronics and pcbs, glad to hear that i wont actively dissolve my vinyl when cleaning them with it
Right On Brother! I too have read the manual that you cite. But even before reading the manual I have used straight 91% Isopropyl alchohol (IPA) applied with a cotton ball, scrubbed, then cleaned on a VPI record cleaner using a solution (25% IPA) similar to what you use, followed by a rinse using Aquafina. I use the straight IPA for vinyl records that look in mint minus condition and have a crackling sound in the background. From what I've found the straight IPA wiping removed 95% of the crackling background sound. Refer to paragraphs X.1.4 and X.1.5 in the manual which discusses material remaining on the vinyl after the pressing process. You are correct stating the vinyl community discounts a lot of information without any documented or referenced information. Keep up the good work.
Thanks, Mark!
Now it makes sense. I thought IPA was India Pale Ale. My records always smelled like a frat house. 😮
🤣🤣🤣
Iso, not Ipa. It is named Isopropanol here.
That paper/guide is amazing. I’ve read it before, and am impressed with the amount of research that went into it.
It's extremely well researched. Pretty much a bible of record cleaning
Thank you for this, Rick! I’ve been searching for a great cleaning solution recipe and you delivered! I’m currently weeding through giant collection wherein many of the records are in desperate need of a bath! Just found your channel and subscribed. Looking forward to more of your content. ✌🏽
Steve
Thank you - I appreciate that!
Cool video! Another benefit of alcohol on vinyl is the fact that it is a drying agent. The important thing is to avoid using any alcohol on shellac records. I would also avoid use with brittle styrene records. I’ve found that mixing my own solution isn’t worth the time. I just buy a bottle of a cleaner I trust online. I personally prefer the Spin Clean solution.
I do like the Spin-Clean solution - and I second that on the shellac. It'll dissolve them from what I understand. Someone else asked about the styrene. I hope they see your comment.
@5:29 I recently used this exact same formula. Works wonders. Ilfotol helps as a surfactant and keeps static low. Perfect! 👌
Great video, really informative, thank you. I've been using the exact same formulation (thanks London Jazz Collector) for the best part of a decade, and my records, whether second had or new, have always sounded better for it 🙂
Great minds think alike, Karl!
Our cat Sofie tries to clean our records with her fluffy tail, but we discourage.
🤣🤣
Thanks Rick , I found this very compelling and thank you for being upfront . Cheers mate …. Enjoy your vids 😎👌
Cheers, Craig! 🍺
Great coverage of a never settled issue. I've done my bit of research & experimentatio. In my experience I've never had a problem with 99% IPA, though I only use it on very dirty records as part of a pre-wash/wash process, but I always apply a final rinse.
For now, my go to cleaning solution is Audio Intelligent #15 for washing & their #6 one step for a rinse.
I like to use 2 Vinyl Styl RCMs. 1 for washing and the other for rinsing. Between the wash and rinse I put the record on the Record Doctor IV to vacuum of the wash. Then I use the 2nd Vinyl Styl for the rinse, and then I vacuum the rinse off. And that's it.
I've chosen the Vinyl Styl RCM because, unlike the Spin Clean, they use goat hair brushes that reach into the record grooves to help dislodge dirt particles.
As my record cleaning process evolves, I plan adding the Record Doctor X & a Humminguru Ultrasonic RCM.
I really enjoy the Record Doctor X and am currently reviewing the HumminGuru NOVA. Hope to have a video on that soon.
Thank you very much for putting this out. This is the best video I have seen on record cleaning solutions yet. It's concise, explains logical rationale for your opinion, and shows a simple formula at the end!
I think I am one of those people who has read and watched nearly every commentary on this subject on the internet.
The vast majority of videos about this are done by people who are not presenting it from a research point of view, not quoting any research, yet professing their opinions dogmatically as fact.
It's never helpful for me to hear someone's strong opinion about something unless they can explain why I should have the same opinion (other than they are a self-appointed expert since they have a TH-cam channel). 🙂 You aren't in that category. You are giving a good basis for your opinion.
I'm looking forward to your in-depth wood glue analysis. 🙂
---------------
A dumb story if anybody is interested:
I have some of my own anecdotal experience with using harsh cleaning methods. I have some records that were stored in a basement too close to a wall from which the boxes absorbed water for many months. The covers were Basically entirely ruined and many of the inner sleeves stuck on to the records which were also covered in mold.
Indeed, most people would just toss them out and get replacements. However, since many of these were rare (in my perspective) or sentimental, and I don't spend much money on records: they were worth it to me to try to clean if possible. And, if nothing else, worthwhile to test harsh cleaning methods on. I couldn't really make them worse.
Some of them actually required scrubbing with soap and water in order to get stuff off of them. It's like they were thrown in a mud pit. I tried rinsing with flowing water as much as possible in order to reduce the amount of grit I was rubbing across the records. My conclusion: you can do a heck of a lot to vinyl records without doing any noticeable damage.
Sidenote: Many of the labels on the records themselves were completely obliterated. Thanks to Shazam I could figure out exactly what they were 🤣
Good old Shazam. Thanks for the story, Matt - I definitely was interested. It's also good to hear how durable they actually are. It's easy to forget they are hunks of PVC and not as fragile as we feel they are (although I can't help but handle them with kid gloves).
@@TheJoyofVinylRecords I do have to admit that the records that were covered in mold and gunk don't sound as good as if they had been handled well. At some point I'm going to get an ultrasonic cleaner and see if that improves them
I have an ultrasonic cleaner. After watching your video, I’ll use 5% isopropyl, surfactant and distilled water instead of surfactant and distilled water only. I know many use alcohol and have no problems. I'm joining the club. I also rinse and vacuum.
Interestingly enough, some use only distilled in their UL cleaners and say it's all you need. My feeling is that some alcohol and surfactant added to the water is more thorough as long as you rinse afterward.
I'd like to see you try UL cleaning and get your take on it. The new Humminguru looks very good. I use a basic 6litre unit with add-ons like the Vevor, because its cheap. Its just not as elegant and a bit more work. I'd love a Degritter, but its definitely way out of my budget. You may want to contact them and see if they’ll send you a demo unit to try. Its a fine piece of kit!
Hi Larry! I'm actually testing out the HumminGuru NOVA as I write this. Hopefully will have something to post about it soon. Would love to try the Degritter but, as you stated, it's way out of my price range too.
@@TheJoyofVinylRecords getting great results from my HumminGuru with GSonic surfactant, and a cap full of 99% IPA from Amazon.
Rick, great video. I also have a similar cleaning method and solution, and primarily rely on the Tergikleen as the primary wetting agent, and never considered the higher concentration of IPA, I have always kept them in separate spray bottles. I believe that once the world ends, there will be roaches that survive and vinyl enthusiast arguing about the proper way to clean records, that's it! With all the cleaning debates I have seen for many years, I believe in one common truth for care of your records, like a practicing physician Hippocratic oath, DO NO HARM! Plain and simple, do no harm with nothing left behind on the record...80% Distilled Water by itself with gentle cleaning will solve 80% of your dirty record issues. It is the rest of those ingredients that get to those other underlying groove concerns
Exactly, Paul! Couldn't have put it better myself.
Another helpful and informative video! I have a question: as someone on a limited budget, I’m reluctant to spend over $100 on a record cleaning machine (I’ve been mostly pleased with the results of my spin cleaner; and, thanks to your previous advice, I’m a firm believer in doing a rinse cycle), so my question is, should I purchase a second spin doctor to use as a dedicated “rinser”? I usually clean from 4 to 6 discs at a time, and then I thoroughly rinse out the plastic container and try to soak and “press” out the cleaning solution from the pads before filling up with fresh distilled water. But I worry that there may still be residue from the cleaning solution that will continue to cling to the pads and therefore the discs. Am I worrying needlessly? (Oh, and as of now, I use the recommended spin doctor solution for cleaning).
Hey Biff! I actually have had the same thoughs as you about the pads and the solution residue. I try not to let it worry me - anything left over is minimal and really won't hurt. But I do think a separate spin-clean for a distilled water only rinse is a great idea.
I have the knosti disco antistat 2 which works pretty good.
I heard it is a bit better than the spin clean because it has different brushes.
If you think about getting a 2nd cleaner maybe concider this one.
@@rubif5797 … Thank you, I’ll definitely check it out!
I use exactly the same recipe, and have used a 2 x Knosti method (1 to clean and 1 to rinse) on well over a 1000 lps with very good results.
I used to do something similar but with three Knostis! One to clean, one for first rinse, one for second rinse.
I use the same three ingredients but less IPA since i use an ultrasonic system. I have read about the flashpoint of IPA so I adhere to those guidelines. Good information here and im always willing to learn.
I learn something new every day, Michael. Cheers!
I have always used IPA in my solutions. I manually clean using 12.5% IPA 87.5% distilled water and a very small amount of Triton 100 as my surfactant. I use small square paint pads to work the solution, then I vinyl vac it off. I then do a distilled water rinse and vac it off. After all this I do ultrasonic cleaning in the same solution, but IPA is reduced to 5%, and I always rinse and vac everything off. It's alot of work, but I only need to do it once.
Great to hear your thoughts. They are well put together!! Cheers!!
I appreciate that - thank you!
Question. Why is 99% ipa required/recommended when the cleaning formula contains 80% water anyway. Couldn’t you just use 91% and adjust the ratio accordingly. Thx! Love the content.
Exactly what I've been wondering. Just what are these people trying to pull?
I can't say exactly. Just going by the research done by smarter brains than mine.
That's exactly what I was thinking. Just try to adjust the amount of distilled water to account for the extra distilled water in the diluted isopropyl alcohol. The only problem I could see with it is if there are things other than just distilled water in the diluted alcohol.
I have used 99% IPA every time except for one when I couldn’t find it. I remember I use 70% IPA that time and adjusted accordingly, it was basic math and it worked very well
Good video and good advice. I work at a record store where on auction we often sell records for between 3000 and 6000 and $12,000 apiece. I think you know what store that is. We use a VPI cleaning machine and a solution consisting of 95% distilled water, 2.5% of photo flow as a surfactant, 2.5% alcohol. The alcohol evaporates. And the records are clean and no one has ever complained. And you can hear the difference.
Audiofools think they can hear the difference. The same fools who think they can hear the difference in RCA cables. It's scientifically impossible.
@@outspokengeniuscan you feel the difference between a clean car and a polished car? Then I am sure you can hear a difference between an oily and degreased record.
Also, if it's possible to hear water travel through plumbing in your house, then electricity running through wires probably also can create an audible noise too.
Not too sure about the photoflo. Tergitol 15-S-9 is a better bet.
Cheers, Ken 🍺
Hi Rick, as always a great video! I‘ve been using this formula since 1977 - and it hasn‘t done any harm neither to my records nor to my styluses. I use the liquid with a second arm DURING the playing of the record - it just moves along. The result is an absolutely clear sound without any pops and clicks. It sounds like a CD, only better!🤭 Some say: once wet - always wet. Maybe they are right, but so what? I‘ll keep doing this until my ‚last record‘… Greetings from Berlin, Harry
What do you mean? Here's my interpretation. You spray the record with cleaning solution have two tone arms. The first in line cleans the record and the second is to listen to. Is that it ?
@@Batman-n1q1v Sorry, I can‘t express myself in English very well. No, it works in a different way: The second arm is fixed on the left upper side of the turntable and is filled with the liquid. At the front it has a Little brush letting through a small amount of the fluid. So while playing, there is a continuous wet track of about one centimeter moving along from the beginning to the end of the record. The needle swims in the fluid all way through. At the end you only have to dry a small amount of fluid off the last grooves. There are absolutely no clicks and pops anymore. And stylus and vinyl are cooled down by the fluid.
That's a very unique system - very cool!
My cleaning process is always evolving. The only thing that hasn't changed is my power rinse with a garden sprayer. DISTILLED water only.
Thanks Rick!
Cheers!
@@TheJoyofVinylRecordshey rick. Will 91% IPA do? Cant find 99%
@@gregtapevideo1464 Yes - 91% will do fine. I had a very hard time finding 99% myself.
why only distilled water? what happens if i use tap water?
@@sebastianbattaglia6330 tap water is full of minerals that stay on the record causing surface noise.
I use ilfotol and tergikleen mixed, best of both fluids. Always rinse after like you said!
Step 1-project wash it
Step 2- ilfotol/tergikleen mix
Step 3- pure distelled rinse
Vacuum between steps
I have always wondered whether mixing surfactants has some kind of synergistic benefit.
Sounds like the perfect system
@TheJoyofVinylRecords it was inspired by one of pbthal's videos. I couldn't find the antistatic ingredient he used but the one I tried left stylus residue.
@simonhickie7589 i think the ilfotol helps the tergikleen "wet" better. I used to use the LJC solution and really liked how that wet compared to just the tergikleen
Rinse solution: how about using a Brita water pitcher to clean distilled rinse water rather than discarding each use. I am skeptical of the HumminGuru filter and the tank leaks when pouring into the basin.
I haven't located a level II distilled water supplier. I am using a Sears distiller - what looks like an old time 1 gallon coffee pot base but with chilling coils and a fan on top of it. With an inexpensive TDS conductivity meter the distilled water reads zero whereas my filtered well water reads 80 ppm and after a Brita water pitcher/filter it reads 60 ppm.
I would hope a Brita would keep the rinse water cleaner.
I 3D printed a tank for the HumminGuru. My concern is with plastic shedding. The print required support which makes a mess of one side - requires sanding. I start with a wire brush on a Dremel Tool and sanding may rub grit into the plastic. Under a microscope it looks like a piece melted into the plastic. I used a transparent 3D printer filament. I will use this tank for cleaning solution and the original tank for rinse water.
I also printed a return-water filter holder which would be glued to rhe lid under the middle hole. The HumminGuru filter lays flat with room for water to spread out over it. May help the cleaning solution. Or, another Brita?
Probably best to pay the $60 on Amazon for a HumminGuru tank. But, where is the fun in that. I checked HumminGuru onine which showed $39-ish plus S&H which showed as 120 - what currency? So, i cancelled that order.
Hi Steven. I suppose if the Brita clears all contaminants it's a good idea. I have a review coming of the HumminGuru NOVA and the one thing I called out was need for a second tank. Very cool that you made your own!
I can tell you that your comments/suggestions for record cleaning are spot on. The late great Len Gregory (aka The Cartridge Man) taught me how to mix the isopropyl solution and recommended I buy a Moth II cleaning machine. While the solution is fine, the machine is bulky and very noisy! Len quoted scientists in Denmark who had suspended vinyl in neat isopropyl for years without detriment. Remember, manufacturers have invested time and money in inventing 'snake oil', as Len put it.
Cheers, Bruce! 🍺
Second comment: You threw a teaser in about the Wally Tools tonearm hammock alignment thingy. I am very interested to hear your take…
I watched all their videos on the device and it motivated me to take a closer look at how my stylus lands and if there is any shift at all on landing. With a 5x lens and an azimuth glass, I watched my 50 year old tonearm drop dead center on a flat acrylic platter without an ounce of the problematic stylus shift demonstrated in their videos . So whatever problem these guys are solving, I am skeptical that such an issue would be common on an otherwise well calibrated table. Rabbit hole!
hey Brett! It sounds like you may not have to be concerned given your experience and test. I made a video a while back about my use of the Wally Tools. I find it indispensable when it comes to swapping out cartridges or reviewing turntables for the channel. That being said - if I had to choose between the WallySkater or the WallyTractor, I might pick the WallySkater.
Could you kindly provide a link? I looked around to see if I could find your review before commenting but I didn’t see it. TY
@@packman03 Absolutely - th-cam.com/video/PW2yoTRE3p0/w-d-xo.html
Well 👍 done. Good sensible advice. Happy listening 🎶 🍻
🍺
Thanks for this. Just getting into collecting, and learning more about cleaning. What do you use for your rinse solution after you run it through this cleaning combo? Just distilled water? Thanks!
Hi, Michael. yes - just distilled water for the rinse cycle.
watched this just in time! thanks for the info
Welcome!
Thanks for the video!
My record cleaning formula is a bit more conservative. I use a Vinyl Styl bath in conjunction with a Vinyl Vac.
15oz Distilled Water
1oz 99.9 IPA
Ilfotol just enough until the solution visibility covers/coats the Grove of my test Vinyl. Typically 10-20 drops from an eyedropper.
Spin On You Crazy Diamonds!
Love the last sentence, Gregory!
I don’t use alcohol to clean my dishes because it doesn’t remove anything (it is a wet solvent so it’ll do a little) but it’ll kill the stuff that remains on the surface. I use soapy water. I do the same when washing my hands, hair, face, and body. I don’t use anything flammable to clean myself or my records.
I have a home-made vacuum setup with a lazy-susan and a shop vac that cost me about $40. I can spin it slowly or quickly in either direction and I can use the wand at any angle. I use a PVC-safe degreaser/detergent mixed in with distilled water. I then rinse the records with straight distilled water and it works beautifully. The trick is scrubbing the surface with very wet microfiber brushes. If you just wipe a brush over the surface it won’t get down into the groove. Scrubbing is key but it has to be very wet. Dry microfiber on dry PVC is bad.
I purchased (and returned) an ultrasonic machine (and also had someone professionally wash some of my records including an ultrasonic step only to return them in cheap paper inner sleeves - so I had to wash them again) and heard 0% difference from the vacuum cleaning.
I have a hospital-grade nonalcoholic cleaner I can use if I need to disinfect vinyl, a cover, or labels.
Lastly, Titebond II wood glue is, by far, the best “hack” to get vinyl records deep clean - nothing else even comes close. The glue needs to be pressed into the groove with some muscle. If you drizzle it onto the surface it won’t do much. After removing the dry glue I wash and rinse like usual.
I’m sure someone reading this has their own way of doing things and that’s fine by me. I know my way works and isn’t damaging my collection.
I use l'art du son cleaning fluid with distilled water. Its a concentrate based on non alcohol bases and ideal for vacuum record cleaners.
L'art du son must be avoided with vacuum cleaning machines that have an internal tank. Due to the missing alcohol, it will quickly develop a stinky biofilm which can be nightmare to get out of the RCM later.
@@phonatic its never been a problem with my Watson's machine.
@@MetalTheet A friend had severe problems with his Okki Nokki and had to take it all apart. I may occur easier during humid summer days.
yikes!
I love this video. I have long felt the issue was never black & white and depended on concentration, frequency of use, how much (and what type of) gunk was on the record (that the alcohol would be interacting with instead of straight vinyl), and so on.
I have used 91% IPA to spot clean extremely stubborn bits of gunk that were causing skips, sticks, and loud pops, and the records never showed any audible or visible damage.
I also believe that any cleaning in excess will cause some kind of degradation long term, and I don't think cleaning a record every single time I play it is a great idea (or necessary).
I really need to read this piece. I also prefer to rely on research and data than clichés and peer pressure, haha. Very well-done, as always.
One thing I do wonder: Is IPA it safe for styrene records? I do think I once charred a (cheap) 45 with IPA because it sounded totally blasted after I gave it a wipe-down with the stuff, haha.
Good question on the styrene. I've never come across anything on it. I don't think it's touched on in the paper either. Might be worth looking into since there a few of those records floating around out there.
Can you this solution to wash the vinyl with a fiber towel?
You could, and I would highly recommend a distilled water rinse after. That step is crucial in my humble opinion.
I've just used whatever came with the Disco Anti-stat cleaner.
Excellent! downloaded the paper, still have to read it. Re flammability of alcohol in ultrasonic cleaner, I have used 70-95% ethanol in a sonicator to clean shells from debris before putting them into the scanning electron microscope.. Typically in small quantities ~5 ml, but nothing ever happened. I don't smoke while doing that (don't smoke, period), but no need to be too paranoid. Similar with picric acid, infamous for being a contact explosive when dry. I opened plenty of screw lid jars with encrusted dry PA in the threads, and nothing has ever happened there either. I put a towel around it, but never needed it.
I think the bigger issue with alcohols is that it is an excellent solvent for dies and colors. So don't let any alcohol get onto your labels or you may get an unintentional psychedelic version of your record.
And then there is the smell issue. Isopropyl has a particular odor, as does Ilfotol (used to do B&W, even some C6 and C41). And then the question of why use two wetting agents, isopropyl AND Ilfotol? Maybe the paper will shed some light on this.
I believe it does, and Neil also directs folks to the London Jazz Collector for further information.
What about using the more common 70%/distilled water with mix adjusted accordingly?
I used to. Suppose I still would, but the info in the white paper by Neil Antin was compelling.
Good video. I had to revisit Neil Antin's guide and sure enough, it includes using IPA. Is there a reason for excluding ethanol in favor of IPA?
One disclaimer you missed: IPA is toxic if ingested or breathed at high concentrations for extended periods. IPA ingested can seriously harm or kill with a little as 250 mL (known as the single lethal dose).
One minor clarification: Mr. Antin indicated a range for the ratio of IPA to distilled water as "about 15% to 20% being the optimum concentration" and "even 2.5% IPA in water can reduce the surface tension to about 60 dynes/cm, reducing the water-IPA solution contact angle with the record improving the wetting and improving the cleaning especially for fine particulate."
Good disclaimer! Thanks for adding that 🍺
Is the ultrasonic warning based on the assumption that water will be heated in an ultrasonic? Mine has heating controls separate from the on/off- I don't have to heat the water. The ultrasonic action does warm the water, but I generally avoid any temperature close to that flash point.
Yes - exactly. There's no heating element so it's only heat from cavitation. It would require a long time to reach heat that would be of a concern
i used a little alcohol in distilled water to dampen the wick in my preeners years ago it kept my preener wick from getting sour
I have no idea what that is 🤣
Hi great informative video, how do you use it in a spin care, do you just put the liquid in the spin care . Thanks mark
I would mix it in a gallon jug and then pour it into the Spin-Clean to the fill line. Always do a distilled water only rinse afterward however.
I've used Windex on a $6,000 forty-five, etc. No complaints. Wood glue (Titebond II) also. Your records, especially less-than-perfect 45s, sound much improved. I haven't had any fires but no promises.
Thanks for the video! If I understood you correctly, after cleaning the records with Spin Clean or similar using your solution, you recommend rinsing with distilled water after that. Does it need to be done immediately, while the record is still wet? I might need another Spin Clean device then, or is it OK if the records get dry in between?
It's ok if it get dry in between. I assume it's not sitting for a long time.
Has anyone thought of asking a big (preferable) pressing plant if it is good or not to use alcohol on (their) records?
From what I understand that question has been floating around for years and to date there hasn't been a definitive answer or actual proof that it does damage. You'll read things about leeching plasticizers, but that's really only parroting what someone else said (I did it too!).
I think the audiophile man asked a bunch and the answer was basically we don't know or care that's not our problem.
th-cam.com/video/duzVUTRLET8/w-d-xo.htmlsi=zWbKZFabLJUM005a
I use Melody Mate and distilled water to rinse through a Knosti. Thinking about getting the Vevor ultrasonic
If you do try the Vevor I’d love to hear your thoughts.
Hi Rick, my solution is a variant on yours. 20% IPA, 80% Distilled Water and a few drops of Tergitol. The last ingredient is another wetting agent. In the UK we call IPA rubbing alcohol. I have seen versions with a drop of washing up liquid which, I guess, is another wetting agent. In comparison, the Project cleaning solution is much more expensive. Discogs has a few different cleaning methods in their review, including wood glue. Best, Pat
Always great to hear from you Pat!
Rick, THANK YOU for making this video...exactly what I was looking for!
Welcome, John!
Great video. Exactly the same formula sent to me with by Nick who makes the SqueakyClean vacuum, which is IMO superior to all other sub-$500 RCM options and seems to fly under the radar on TH-cam. Review opportunity?
I completely forgot about the SqueakyClean. I've been on their website in the past. Seems to be a good option .
I just lightly damp a cloth with ipa/distilled water 1/4 ish ratio, however i don't think it gets that wet to be necessary to clean with only distilled water afterwards ? I think it would probably evaporate within 2min anyways with the amount i apply
Neil Antin's ebook is my go-to resource for record cleaning. I generally use the following approach: 1. Preclean with Ecover zero/IPA/water; 2. vacuum dry; 3. Acid wash (white distilled spirit vinegar + neat surfactant; 4. vacuum dry; 5. Rinse; 6 Vacuum dry; 7. Final clean (Dehypon LS54, Benzalkonium Chloride, water); 8. Vacuum dry; 9. Final rinse; 10 vacuum dry; 11. final air dry.
It sounds long winded. In practice, it takes about 15 minutes per record. The results at least equal those achieved with my ultrasonic tank cleaner with 0.6rpm spinner. Even when doing an ultrasonic clean, there's still the need for a pre-clean to remove oil based contaminants and also a final rinse and vacuum.
Neil cautions not to do the acid wash with a commercial vacuum based record cleaner as the acid may damage internal metal components. As I use a DIY Vinyl Vac clone and a mainly plastic wet/dry vacuum I do the acid wash stage.
I've also used Ilfotol/IPA and Tergitol in my cleaning solutions. Triton X-100 is also sometimes used. However, it's banned in the UK/EU. It's also a pig to rinse off.
I really want to try that method, Simon.
I have been using my home made solution of the %20 alcohol , distilled water a drop of Dawn dish detergent and a drop of rinse aid for around 8 or 9 years now. Recently adjusted to less alcohol as I sensed it was a little strong. Now about 5 - 10% . Before that used the commercial record cleaner. Never had any problems I know of. I clean all my records by hand with microfibre cloths.
Cheers, Brad!
A TH-camr from the UK did an extensive trial of what percentage of IPA is effective and found no improvement in cleaning using more than 3% IPA . I use Mobile Fidelity Plus Enzyme Cleaner with 3% IPA and my Loricraft vacuum machine . I also use Mobile Fidelity's quad-distilled water (and a dedicated rinse brush) to rinse & vacuum TWICE to ensure sparkling clean . In my profession I cleaned many things hundreds of times . Fanatically .
Good work!
I used IPA in my ultrasonic machine several years ago.
Got a interesting effect..
Normally using ultrasonic you don't see the "scrubbing bubbles"/micro bubbles..
It is like noting is happening when looking into the solution.
Yes, you can do the aluminum foil test and see that getting shredded.
But when I used IPA then the microbubbles were visible and very profound. Just that you can see that something is happening were satisfying..
I don't know what percentage I had, but it were "a lot". Very wasteful anyway.😂
🤣
Hi Rick, i just watched some of your old videos and i noticed the video quality used to be much better. Also i miss the old leader music and logo in recent videos. And i noticed your editing is becoming more busy with effects and text overlay. What made you change your video recording and editing routine? I think you should stick to your original simple style and let your clever observations and honest explanations do the talking, no fancy effects needed!
First! Great video! Thanks for the help.
Welcome!
I use Everclear from the liquor store, which is ethanal (or ethyl alcohol). IPA is 'wood alcohol or rubbing alcohol". I don't use IPA, because when it evaporates it leaves a residue. Ethanol leaves no residue. I learned this when working in physics lab (Positron beam lab). We used 100% ethanol (you cannot get this unless you are certified lab like a university) for our last solvent cleaning of a very low-pressure (10 to the power of -22 torr, almost a vacuum) flight tube. I use a 1% solution with distilled water as rinse solution for cleaning records. The ethanol reduces the surface tension of the water allowing the solution to wet the groves more completely and evaporates cleanly (no residue). A bottle of Everclear will last a long time at this strength, unless you make trash can punch.
Don't forget the Dry Ice in that Trashcan....LOL
Good to know. I work at a University - I should see if I can try it out if there's any here.
The only 🥃 I use when enjoying all music formats …is a nice bourbon….and if the munchies strike 🍕
Seriously,proper record handling and minimal cleaning(a quality record brush) ..and unless you’ve been neglectful in your handling ..they should be sufficient.
That being said …you’re on the right path SHOULD you need a deeper cleaning routine and gear .
It’s Canadian Thanksgiving 🍁🦃..
Have a great Sunday
I didn't realize that it was Thanksgiving there - have a great one! And enjoy the bourbon! 🥃
My experience has been really different, since even new, never before used albums sometimes come out of the sleeve with dirt on them, popping and clicking in certain parts.
@@TheJoyofVinylRecords the best of this season to you and yours .
Going to Toronto Audiofest next weekend …I’ll send pics 🙂
Looking forward to new vinyl experiences and the “wireless” Focals ..someone called them the worlds most expensive cat scratching posts 🤣
@@carminedesanto6746 Looking forward the pics Carmine@. Wish I could join you 🍺
L' Art Du Son alcohol free concentrate with distiiled water is something that I've used for years safely on my records.
I’m going to try this when my project cleaner runs out.
Yes but with a silly price tag.
To be fair, if you store it properly it is surprisingly economical....I wont use anything else tbh.
@@darrenlewis5403 if it works better than the project stuff thats all I care about. When the project stuff isn’t vacuumed off the record quickly it leaves a film.
@@russellparker4568
No such problem with L Art Russell👍
I'm just new to cleaning my records. I've just been using the Spin Clean Washer Fluid. Is that not a good cleaning agent?
I can't imagine it's bad. When I first bought a Spin-Clean I used to use their fluid as well. I would recommend a post-clean rinse with only distilled water in the Spin-Clean to remove any cleaning agent they add to their mix.
@@TheJoyofVinylRecords Thank you so much for the response! I will take your advice and will follow your recipe once I'm done with my current supply.
Good video but I would never ever use isopropyl alcohol on my ultrasonic cleaning machine because I don't want to take any risk of ruining my records so what I use for solutions that I tried out and use are tergikleen, kodak photo flo, the groovinator and the groovewasher ultrasonic cleaning solution and they all do a great job cleaning my records and had no issues with my records so these are the cleaning methods that I will stick with.
I would tend to not use it in an ultrasonic. I know folks do, and it should be fine as long as things are rinsed and the concentration isn't too high .
I found Kleen Screen screen cleaning solution (alcohol, distilled water, surfactant) used with an extra fine micro fiber cloth removes 99% (or more) of crackling noise. I’ve saved countless albums with some slightly firm rubbing along the grooves. I’ve made old first press Beatles LP’s play like new with no detriment to album life or groove integrity. I kick myself for not knowing this my whole life. Now ALL my albums play like new or near mint. No fancy machine or high expense products work better. If you haven’t tried it you’re missing out. (The first couple plays will have you cleaning your stylus as excess lint-like ‘dust’ comes up. I use a gel cleaner. After that you won’t need any cleaning at all for a pristine play)
Good to know. Thanks, Brad!
I use 92% which is all I can find here for years, mixed with distilled water. Three tablespoons of the IPA and the rest of the 8oz bottle with the distilled water. Works well for me.
I have tried various cleaning methods over the past 45 years of collecting lps. The best and easiest method is ultrasonic. I bought a Vevor machine for $150 delivered about 8 months ago and have cleaned 100s of lps. I use Groovewasher G2 and G Sonic solutions to preclean and US clean finished on a 35 year old NittyGritty vacuum machine and the results are astonishing. Lps sound like new in some cases. I won't play a record before cleaning it. Highly recommend an ultrasonic for lps.
I'm thinking I may incorporate an ultrasonic as the post clean rinse cycle. More to come on that!
I expected a video with the default fallacies why you shouldn't use IPA on your records, but found the opposite instead.
This has been such a relief! *Finally* someone who knows what he's talking about!
Thanks for taking the time to perform due diligence - this is what sets you apart from all the ill informed TH-cam content creators! 👍
Oh btw, the only thing I would add to this is that there are just two rare exceptions where IPA shouldn't be used: shellac and polystyrene records
Glad you mentioned to avoid using it with shellac and polystyrene - I failed to say that!
Happy New Year! 🍺
@@TheJoyofVinylRecords Happy new year!
Vacuum tubes - can see them work, sort of, and can understand them, not that transistors are difficult. People wrote volumes on both. Which sounds better? Can depend on circuit architecture. I think my transformer coupled ECC99 preamp sounds smooth and clear with low noise. I added a phono stage with 6922's. Fun project, straight forward design, no current sources as my other all 6922 balanced pre has. Both sound great. There is something about tubes that pulls me in.
They pull me in to, Steven.
When using this solution that you use, if I were to use it in my spin clean, would you use this solution for the entire bath of the spin clean? Or just add three caps to a bath of distilled water , like you would with the solution that comes with the spin clean?
It would be fine to do either way actually. The Spin-Clean doesn't hold alot so three capfulls will still do the trick. Just make sure you do a rinse cycle of distilled water only after.
I used Isopropylic alcohol in my Ultrasonic Cleaner Machine 5% then 95% Destilled Water in 30 degrees celsius and i have not problems...Greetings from Chile...!!!
Cheers, Chile! 🍺
I use almost the same but I use a little less alcohol and photo flow
Very nice video. Your formula seems legit but ask your photograpic store about Ilfotol... . It has a shelf life of only 2 or 3 years my photograpic store told me. These 500ml bottles doesn't last forever unfortunatel and you only need a small amount. For my purpose ( 1000 LP's) it's overkill. I tried it to but I don't hear a difference between Ilfotol and a neutral rinsing agent which is cheaper anyway. I have also a small bottle of Amaloco H10 which is also a wetting agent I still have to try out, but has a longer shelf life. When I started my cleaning journey I also started off with 20% alcohol but the mixture did something to the plastics of the knosti. It develiped a leak in the housing. Then I bought a new one and lowered to 10%. It did the job perfectly. Since then I lowered my Isopropanol percentage for my tests and settled at 5%. Same results and cheaper. Maybe the spin clean is made from different materials, so it can withstand a higher alcohol percentage, I don't know.
Any other rinsing agents that you would recommend? I always figured the shelf life advertised on ilfotol was for lab effectiveness and a bit on the conservative side, but perhaps I am wrong.
@TheJoyofVinylRecords you can extend it if you store it properl but it ha a EOL. I'm no photographer so I have to rely what experts tell me. I've used a diswahing rince agent without parfums, chemicals and added colours from Ecover with very good results. Because I perform a double rinse with destilled water afterwards all of it is gone. Why two baths of destilled water? The first bath gets a bit contaminated with a bit of the remaining washing fluid after a few records which you wahsh off with the destilled water. The second bath with destilled water is to finish it off. Is it necessary? No but It's a mental thing so I know there is no residue left. Now I'm trying Amaloco H10 wetting agent and the results are the same but it's more expensive but I can get it in a smaller bottle at our local photograpic store. In my experience a 3 or 4 step cleaning process, is more important then the brand of the wetting agent. I could get 4 Knosti's dirt cheap, €15 each secondhand, so it's a multiple bath solution very cheap. It keeps me busy in the winter time🍷I'm always looking for cheap solutions.
The worst alcohol to use is Irish Whiskey. Too much causes my tonearm to bounce across my vinyl records.
🤣🤣🤣
I have been using 70% IPA alcohol with distilled water for quite a while and also Groovewasher record cleaning solution as of late. Both really work excellent.
@levihilton1318
0 seconds ago
I am going to try this on ma few of my records. But, I have a couple questions. 1st, I am going to make the solution, place it in a small spray bottle and use it.....but what do you suggest I use to rub it on the records with? A 'Q" tip? Cotton ball? Some type of "Soft brush" like a tooth brush? 2nd what do you suggest I wipe the solution off with? Is there a specific rag/cloth or something else used to wipe off the solution as to not scratch or damage the record? 3rd, I am going to also spray the record with the distilled water for step 3 and then wipe clean again with the recommended cloth. Does this sound about right?
Hi Levi. If I didn't have a machine like the Record Doctor X, I would use a clean microfibre cloth both to apply and to remove. And yes - definitely rinse it as you mentioned afterward - either with the microfiber if nothing else (or a Spin-Clean, which is great).
Oh - and protect the label when doing this.
The book is 192 pages of definitions and a little on results, not that I read every page. Need the 10 page summary - use this surfactant, which products in what dilution to avoid separate rinse.
Having to vacuum the rinse water off using a pad that touches the record seems to defeat Ultrasonic cleaning.
A second HumminGuru water tank could be used to rinse the record and flush/dilute chemicals in the pump and basin.
Agreed on the second HumminGuru tank. I'm trying out there new cleaner and would like to have a second tank for exactly what you stated.
So, actually you got 20% alcohol content liquid and some "ilfotol", something that I used in seventies and I think this is the main agent of improvement - it removes static. As for alcohol itself I got mixed feeling, what it does is: 1. dissolves dirt/carries away the dirt particles 2. evaporates. Quicker evaporation doesn't do any good - dirt particles won't evaporate, so they'd stay somewhere on the surface of record. I'd rather replace alcohol with a drop of some pure soap and rinse it in a distilled water. And rinse it again. You can use an old well washed towel to dry up the record afterwards. It works for me. Cheers!
Cheers, PJ 🍺
I think the larger portion of distilled water in the mix ratio will prevent rapid evaporation of the isopropyl to allow the solution to be vacuumed away. Dirt should remain suspended in the solution until that time.
The Jungle Site sells 99% IPA in quart bottles under their "Maxtite" brand, at a fairly reasonable price, and I use it in my record cleaning solution, although my solution is only about 6% alcohol. Otherwise, it is the same as yours. I do use it in my ultrasonic cleaner. As with any flammable substance, you just have to be careful. Being a non-smoker helps.
That's great - thanks for weighing in on that, Scott!
@3:31 "I decided it was really time for me to do some real research into whether alcohol is bad or not."
It is good, according to my bartender (as long as your records are not driving).
Kidding aside, I use "record time" by Musical Surroundings, because that is what the store (where I purchased my turntable and stereo) happened to have.
The president of Musical Surroundings, Garth Leerer (who I have met a few times, when he was a guest at the store, demoing new gear) distributes the Clearsudio line of turntables, tone-arms, and cartridges (as well as other high-end brands). Check out photos of the Clearaudio Statement turntable, and some reviews. So I figured that based on all of the above, the "record time" fluid is probably a good and safe choice. The store also uses it.
The label for the "record time" bottle reads "Enzyme-based fluid for LPs ..." No other information is mentioned of what is in the bottle.
So it is a mystery fluid.
I have been using it for nearly two decades, and have no issues. My records get shiny clean, via my VPI 16.5 record cleaning machine.
I also have an AudioDesk ultrasonic record cleaning machine. It requires distilled water and a small bottle of their record cleaning fluid. The label on their fluid provides no information on its contents (yet more mystery fluid).
I stopped using the ultrasonic machine years ago, because:
1) The (distilled) water evaporates. Since I do not clean my records often, I would end up cleaning 1 to 3 records, and the distilled water would mostly evaporate the next time I was ready to use the machine.
2) A new gallon of distilled water meant another bottle of their cleaning fluid. And they charge an outrageous amount for their cleaning fluid. So it was costing a small fortune to periodically clean a few records.
3) Even with trying to convince myself that the ultrasonic machine made a difference, my ears heard no improvement. If there was any improvement, it was not worth dragging home gallons of distilled water, and paying exorbitant prices for the cleaning fluid.
4) It takes a few minutes for the ultrasonic machine to clean and dry a record. Whereas, my VPI 16.5 machine takes a few seconds.
5) All ultrasonic record cleaning machines are good for only nearly clean records. The ultrasonic machine explodes bubbles in the record's grooves, where the bristles from a brush used on a conventional cleaning machine would not reach some microscopic debris in the grooves. But if you have a visibly dirty record, then good luck having any ultrasonic record cleaning machine wipe off the dirt. You can run such a dirty record through the ultrasonic machine several times, and still see some dirt. Whereas, a conventional record cleaning machine will quickly do 99.9% of the cleaning job. Is it then worth following up with an additional 0.1% cleaning with an ultrasonic record cleaning machine? My experience is "No".
My VPI 16.5, along with the "record time" cleaning fluid gets the job done.
If the fluids for my ultrasonic machine were free, I would still stick to my VPI machine. I might never use my ultrasonic cleaning machine again. To fill it with distilled water, and expensive cleaning fluid, hear no benefit, and then the water evaporates, just makes it a waste of time, even if the expensive fluid was free and even if someone else lugged home the gallons and gallons of distilled water and kept refilling the tank.
Lastly, when it comes to the various fluids...
They are probably all safe for your records, assuming you dry your records right away. What concerns me is whether or not any residue might remain that could transfer to your stylus, and might it be harmful to your stylus. Since the distributor of Clearaudio also distributes "record time" cleaning fluid, and my local high-end store uses it, then I am comfortable using it.
I worry as well about residue. The rinse cycle after is essential for me. As far as ultrasonics - I've never used one before. I'm testing out the HumminGuru now for a future video.
It’s distilled water for me, washing up liquid and nail vanish remover and a spin clean. That’s it!
Washing-up liquid 😂 🤯 Dumb
Thanks!! Haha … I had to laugh b/c your solution is exactly the same as the one I use! Only difference is I use undenatured 99.9% ethanol (only b/c I have supplies from the lab). I also do a rinsing cycle with just distilled water at the end.
Great minds.... 🤣. Cheers 🍺
I'm very interested. I just use what I buy at the record store
I use 99.99% lab grade IPA (40%) +99.99% lab grade distilled water (60%) plus two drops of triton x-100
is this safe ? been using it for years without any problem .
rinse with water only than vacuum
It's really close to what I use Victor in my mixture. I use Ilfotol and the 99%/Distilled mix is 20% IPA and 80% distilled. I also rinse and the a vacuum machine.
It's nice that someone finally came clean about the use of alcohol. :D
Cheers, Brad 🍺
I'm not against alcohol, but I only put a bottle cap of it in 500ML distilled water plus one drop of neutral dish soap and one drop of Jetdry rince agent. I use à VPI vacuum machine. So it's mainly water. Might consider ultrasonic soon, IDK... Thanks for the video.
Cheers! 🍺
@@TheJoyofVinylRecords
I've been sober for 20 years, so I go easy on that stuff. 🤣
I have mixed feelings with vinyl cleaners. If I purchase a really dirty album I use 75/25 distilled and 91% isopropyl and vacuum followed by my goto; 1 gallon distilled water and 15 drops TergiKleen, followed by a thorough, thorough, thorough distilled water rinse and vacuum using Pro-Ject VC-E2. The key is rinse.
Agreed - always a rinse.
Isopropyl alcohol and whisky go very well with listening to vinyl. Just make sure you don't mix up what goes where.
facts! 🤣 🥃
Kodak Photoflo is an alternative for the Ilfotol.
Here’s an easy fix me isopropyl alcohol reduce the percentage to 6 or 7 percent. And before anyone says it won’t work it won’t work try it. I’ve used it. It works great, and it eliminates the issue of flammability in a ultrasonic cleaner.
Sounds like a good fix
I know there are purist members of the VC with $8k record cleaners who swear by water only, but how do they clean grease and fingerprints off of their records? It seems like at least in limited use, alcohol could be an effective, relatively harmless substance to use especially if it’s washed from the record.
Exactly. The rinse after is essential in my humble opinion
I own a Degritter, though it is only a lowly, outdated, ineffective version 1 machine (just kidding). The company's recent firmware updates have created a nice two-tank cleaning process, which includes a pre-wash and a rinse. I'm using the following solutions: Into wash tank goes 1,400ml distilled water and 4 drops Tergikleen and 1ml of Degriter's own cleaning solution (I get a sudsy look if I use 2). The 4 drops of surfactant is roughly equivalent to maybe 11-12 drops per gallon, so I'm being conservative in the amount used. I always run my Degritter on the "heavy" cycle, which includes 6 minutes of actual ultrasonic cleaning. The Degritter then asks you to remove the "wash" tank and put in the "rinse" which is filled with 1310ml distilled water and 90ml 99% alcohol (roughly a 7% quantity). Degritter rinses the LP briefly then drys it. Total time is 15 minutes. My reasoning for the alcohol in the rinse is that it certainly can act on things that water alone doesn't. Since no ultrasonic activity is occurring in the rinse cycle, I guess there would be no harm making the percentage higher. I picked 7% based on a comment from a UK U-tuber that too much alcohol has deleterious effects on the vinyl. Apparently your research says that isn’t so. I may very well increase the %. But what I’m doing normally has been outstanding, to say the least.
Thanks Dave - the Degritter is on my "someday" list
@@TheJoyofVinylRecords
I would like to add a couple more comments about what I find the Degritter does so well on most LP's I have, which are mainly classical "Shaded Dogs", Decca, EMI & other smaller European labels purchase 20 to 30 years ago. I owned a VPI 16.5 for many years and many were washed previous to owning the Degritter. I feel the VPI and the Degritter both make records quieter and remove some, but not all, tics & pops - especially load pops that you can liken to a giant "boulder" sitting in the groove waiting for your stylus to crash into it.
Here is how the Degritter has excelled over the VPI:
1) Background surface noise is greatly reduced by comparison. Many Decca's, for example, were pressed on rather poor vinyl and have a steady surface noise character many listeners are familiar with and most of us just "get used to it". But the Degritter amazingly cleans most of that up. Sure, it isn't brand new pressing quiet but darn close at times! There are instrumental details that become much easier to discern too.
2) Tics & pops that aren't removed often seem to sound softer or more "muffled" prior to the ultrasonic cleaning. I don't have an explanation for that.
Regarding the use of alcohol in a novel way, I decided to try something on a few records where a really obnoxious pop exists that even Degritter doesn't remove. Knowing where the pop is, and with the record on a firm surface and soft cloth under it, I saturate a tight weave cloth (like a lens cleaning cloth) with 70% or higher alcohol and then wipe the circumference area (where the pop was heard) fairly firmly. I re-saturate the cloth and repeat process, then quickly re-clean the LP with the Degritter. To my happiness, I have gotten rid of many of those big pops. Of course, there is an area of the LP that gets soaked with alcohol and rubbed firmly. I sorta worry about this not being good for the vinyl but so far I don't hear anything bad resulting from it.
Why use 99% IPA when being mixed with distilled water? Aren't you just lowering the concentration once mixed?
Isn't a standard (off the shelf) IPA at 70%, just a lower concentration of alcohol than the 99% IPA?
Good question , Brian. No idea actually. Just following the advice of people smarter than me when it comes to chemistry.
Finally some words of reason! IMHO the alcohol-free cleaner hype has been nothing else than clever sales pitch. I have been using an IPA-based solution for many years on my LPs, and they're all in great shape. To me, there's another parallel sales hype with "warnings" to stay away from liquid stylus cleaners. It's funny how quickly some forget that many used to play their records wet. Once again, it's all claims without any evidence to show.
A fellow Bass player!!
20%ipa(isopropyl alcohol) for my vinyl, and 200%ipa(India pale ale) for me. Sounds like a good combination, cheers
A perfect combo 🍺
Ha, your cleaner is almost exactly the same as mine... 80% distilled (or deionised) water, 20% IPA (99%), plus a dash of photo wetting agent.
Great minds think alike, Alan!
Instead of Ilfatol, I use a few drops of dawn dish soap for a surfactant.
That works too 🍺
why distiller water and not normal water?
Great question. From what I've ever read - distilled water is the standard to prevent impurities from tap water.
@@TheJoyofVinylRecords yes I read that before (and aldo to prevent static ,but I think you can eliminate it later with a Milty Zerostat 3 Anti-Static Gun). But, if after use tap water (for example, to wash a very dirty lp under the tap) I re-clean it with proper vinyl-record cleaner liquid... it does't destroy those impurities? I have been use this technique and never a problem... but no one explained exactly if the use of tap water once is a death sentence for the record and why...
Records are made of polyvinyl chloride. Does isopropyl alcohol damage the plastic bottles it's sold in? Alcohol can help loosen or dissolve sticky contaminants (traces of packaging glues, peanut butter and jelly fingerprints) that sometimes get onto the surface and into the grooves of a record. It works. (I use a drop or two of surfactant [Triton X-100 or a custom GrooveWasher concentrate solution], and sometimes a dash of 99 percent IPA in a gallon of distilled warm water, using a 40 khz ultrasonic jewelry cleaning machine with a revolving spindle designed specifically for LPs.) If you used only pure distilled water, there's no "wetting agent" to break the surface tension so the ultrasonic treatment doesn't do what it's supposed to do. If only more people would take a few minutes to do some comparative research before jumping to their conclusions... Thanks for being conscientious!
If you ever pull the trigger on getting an Ultrasonic cleaner, I'll recommend the Kirmuss system.
I've heard good things about it too
I've always felt that alcohol in moderation wasn't harmful, although abstaining from alcohol is probably best. However, I do enjoy a nice IPA beer occasionally at around 6 - 7 alcohol by volume. Wait, are we still talking about cleaning records? Anyhow, thanks for the informative video, Rick. Now I'm going to listen to some Scorpions and have beer. Cheers 🍻 😂
I had their new record on a couple nights ago. Great album! 🦂
Ortofon cartridges use a bonding agent for their stylus’s that will dissolve in alcohol. I’ve experienced this first hand.
Yeah - I would never recommend letting alcohol come into contact with a stylus. Always rinse thoroughly after cleaning is my motto