Sourdough Challenge: Using a Stand Mixer (Kitchenaid) or Forming By Hand - Which Is Better
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 มิ.ย. 2024
- I do a side-by-side comparison of 2 techniques for making sourdough bread. Both come out great, but guess which one wins!
The following recipe is for one loaf, as I show in the video, but in practice I usually double this and prep two loaves at once. The larger quantity of dough actually works better with the stand mixer because there is more dough for the kneading hook to grab a'hold of.
Recipe:
72g STARTER
261g WATER
7g SALT
72g DARK RYE Flour
288g BREAD Flour
-------------------------
700g TOTAL WEIGHT
Also - since making this video, I am actually using a target rise of about 35%-40% for my bulk ferment; it seems to give more oven spring and lightness.
Music licensed from The Music Bakery: Fast and Smooth
Thank you for solving my dilemma........I prefer the mixer method!
I’m pleased to see that you did the whole process in the stand mixer. I have not understood why I’ve seen so many people using the stand mixer and then going on to perform numerous stretch & folds, which seems to defeat the purpose!
I’m happy to watch recipe with given temperature. I’ll try along with your video.
Your amazing. Thank you.
Making your mixer version now. Will let you know how it goes
Many thanks Mindopod for your demonstration. I’m now moving over to using my Kitchen aid as it saves a lot of time stretch and folding, less mess and much quicker!
Love hearing this - thank you so much! Happy baking.
Here are the specifics about baking times and temperatures:
BAKING TEMPERATURE FOR SOURDOUGH BREAD
This is one part of the process that is going to require your own experimentation, because the way your oven performs and how long and how evenly it holds heat will make a big difference in the height and openness (i.e. the “oven spring”) of your bread.
Start by setting your oven to 500°, or at least to its highest temperature if it can’t go that high. Put both the base and the lid of your Dutch oven in and let the oven and the Dutch oven preheat for at least 45 minutes to an hour.
You’ll put your dough in and quickly close up the Dutch oven. This is when the dough really rises and cooks, because it steams inside the Dutch oven during this phase. Then you’ll take the lid off the Dutch oven and let it brown and let the crust get crispy. During this phase don’t go strictly by time but by how brown the crust is becoming - check periodically.
~ ~ ~
I have surveyed many, many different bakers and here is the range on the times and temperatures I’ve seen used:
Initial temperature: 500 / initial time: 20 minutes / second temperature: 450 / second time: 20 minutes
Initial temperature: 450 / initial time: 30 minutes / second temperature: 450 / second time: 20 minutes
Initial temperature: 500 / initial time: 17 minutes / second temperature: 400 / second time: 23 minutes
Initial temperature: 465 / initial time: 35 minutes / second temperature: 410 / second time: 10 minutes
Initial temperature: 430 / initial time: 20 minutes / second temperature: 430 / second time: 30 minutes
Initial temperature: 500 / turn oven off for 20 minutes / second temperature: 450 / second time: 20 minutes
How are you to determine what’s best for you? Start at the top of this list and see what you get. If the bottom crust seems a bit too hard or tastes a bit burnt then lower the temperature a bit for your next batch. Keep a piece of paper next to your oven and keep track of what you’ve done and what the results are. Or try the test I show in this video (coming):
More Cooking Tips:
It’s important to not underbake your bread. Underbaked bread will not rise properly and will be more dense than a fully cooked loaf.
During the browning stage, after you remove the lid of the Dutch Oven, you may want to rotate your pan so the bread browns more evenly; depends on your oven. For my oven, I have to divide my browning time in half and turn it at the midpoint.
If your oven isn’t as robust as you think it should be, you may find your bakes improve dramatically by keeping a pizza stone on the lower shelf. This absorbs the heat and then stabilized the heat dispersal. (And wait until you make sourdough pizza dough!)
Don’t skimp on the preheat time for your oven and don’t forget to preheat the Dutch Oven too.
After the ‘crack’ crackers I knew I had to check out your other videos! So glad you did this comparison video! I only make sourdough no knead & focaccia bread because I did not want to have to do the many stretch & folds! I always felt as if I should be able to do everything in my KitchenAid & now, thanks to you, I know that I can! Thank you for taking all the guess work out of this for me! 💝
This is the best stand mixer video for sourdough, and I have watched most if not all of them. Have been working on doing this for a couple of weeks, or since I received my stand mixer. A few bread flops later, I found your video. So far, I've completed the mixing and kneading and the dough is so much better in feel and texture. Bread is in bulk ferment at the moment and I am optimistic! Thanks so much!
Hi Martha - Glad it was helpful! And thank you so much for this wonderful comment. I totally agree with you too - when I switched from hand mixing to machine mixing I ended up getting much more consistent gluten development and the right of my breads was much more reliable. It also made it so much easier to do. Instead of an entire day devoted to caring for the dough it becomes a simple matter of mixing it up - letting it rise unattended - shaping and retard. Boom - easy!
Thank you so much! I’m definitely going to try my KitchenAid next time
Me too
Thank you for making this video! I just got a Kitchenaid and I'm excited to try out making sourdough without the additional work of stretch and folds
You're so welcome. I think you're going to love it! Not only is it less work and less baby-sitting time, but it also gives a wonderfully consistent end-product because of the great gluten development. And there's so much else I now find myseld doing with the Kitchenaid too - have fun!
Great video, thank you!
Thanks for this Video. I PREFER THE MIXER....YES. I think it is easier and the bread rises
better., either way a choice. MIXER ALWAYS for ME.
Thanks - I think you're so right
Thanks Mindopod, this video is right up my alley. I've been baking sourdough for about 13 months. A friend of mine just gave me a kitchen aid stand mixer which I've used 3 times for sourdough. I also made a Styrofoam proofing box with a seedling mat and thermostat. I'm going to set my temp. a little higher after watching your video. Mine's set at 77 deg. I'm also learning jazz guitar so I really enjoyed the background music too. Stay strong, bake on.
Thanks so much Bobbo. I'm still surprised how great the stand mixer is for developing beautiful gluten formation in the bread. And check out my vid about sourdough crackers too - the kitchen aid is wonderful for those as well. And the thermostat settings - yes, I only use less than 85° if I need it to proof more slowly (like if I have to be gone when I would expect it to be ready so need to slow delay it a bit). I bet you'll find that you'll be able to use that proofing box you've set up for lots of other uses too. I use it in my cheesemaking now too.
Looks absolutely yummy and delicious different and unique recipe💙💙well prepared.💙💙stay connected💙💙Thanks for sharing💙💙
Thanks so much. And your comment lead me to your channel too which looks fabulous. Great ideas I look forward to exploring.
Amanzing video!! Im gonna try 😁
Thank you so much...I will be using my KitchenAid!
I have made 6 loaf batches with my mixer. It's easier and the cleanup is not too bad. However, I usually do 2-3 loaves at a time. I mix that with a table knife, not with my hand, a Dutch whisk, or rubber scraper. It is easy, reasonably fast and clean up is 5 seconds to clean the knife.
Thanks for the comparison as I was wondering what or if there was a difference in the outcome.
I think the outcome was a little better with the stand mixer, because the gluten development is so complete this way. This is the way I now always make my bread.
Thanks so much for this great educational video. I learned a lot from it. I just finished mixing the dough in the kitchenaid. really excited to see how it turns out tomorrow!
Thanks so much. Write back in and let us know.
@@mindoPod turned out great. Lovely oven spring and taste. This is my go to recipe from now on. Thanks so much!!
@@maxnederhoed3611 I love hearing this great news. Thanks Max. It's the most reliable method I've found too.
HI there Mindo---thank you for this great comparison video! Would it be possible for you to share your recipe? Thanks!
Hi Judy - thanks so much. I'd be glad to share the recipe - I have it proportioned out by different sizes based on how much bread I want to bake on one of my webpages: www.podsnespresso.com/mindough-sourdough-club
PS - And thanks for subscribing too
@@mindoPod ...you are welcome! What a wonderful website you have...so helpful for new sourdough bakers as well as the more established! Thank you for the breakdown of the recipe; it really helps! What a dedicated lady you are.....many thanks to you for all of your help to us out here!
Thanks for the comparison. I just wanted to ask what time in the morning did you bake and was it straight out of the fridge? What temperature did you bake and finally, if i wanted to bake sooner, could i leave it on the counter for a few hours and then bake? Thank you!!
Hi GeeGee - thanks for watching. Gosh... two years ago - I have no idea what time I baked these off ! 🤣 but I will say that leaving it in the fridge overnight is not mandatory, but it does allow more of that sourness of a good sourdough to develop. You'll get a milder flavor if you just bake it off the same day, but it'll be ok. Here's an idea: split your batch of dough into two portions and be your own scientist. Bake one later that day, and bake the other the next day - then cut into both and do a taste test. Enjoy
Haha i completely missed the date. Thanks for getting back to me. This video has given me the most success in my bread making journey. Thanks again!
@@GeeGeee I'm glad the video is proving the test of being 'timeless' - and your comment is priceless - thank you so much. That was my experience too - that it gave me the best success I'd found trying everything. Happy Baking
Could you share the mixer speeds and times for mixing with the paddle and kneading with the hook when you are making 2 loaves? My recipe is actually 850 grams so I know the times will vary, but I would appreciate learning your estimates. I had given up using my mixer for mixing just the initial dough because I lost height in the rise. Now that i know it’s possible, I’m going to try again. Not including your starter, you seem to have a hydration of 72.5%. With the starter, my hydration is 70%. I know these things make a difference, but haven’t yet figured them all out. Thank you so much for your video!
Hi - thanks for watching. It's actually even more complicated than just the hydration, because there are many variables - things like which flour you use makes a difference too - and even what season it is... winter wheat is different than summer wheat, etc.
That's why - rather than just give you numbers I suggest you get really good with the window pane test and just keep testing as you go. Once you feel familiar with that, let that be your guide.
As far as speed - I mainly use the 2nd speed (1 being the lowest). If I'm in a hurry I may go to the 3rd speed for a bit.
Also, other things may be influencing your rise, such as how long you let it proof and your proofing temperature. You don't want to over-proof. I found that letting it proof to double was less effective than just proofing to about 70% of its height.
Good luck!
@@mindoPod Thank you! I
What temperature? How long? Baked on the peel or in a Dutch oven? This was a great recipe and I planned to use this one but you didn’t finish it.
BAKING TEMPERATURE FOR SOURDOUGH BREAD
This is one part of the process that is going to require your own experimentation, because the way your oven performs and how long and how evenly it holds heat will make a big difference in the height and openness (i.e. the “oven spring”) of your bread.
Start by setting your oven to 500°, or at least to its highest temperature if it can’t go that high. Put both the base and the lid of your Dutch oven in and let the oven and the Dutch oven preheat for at least 45 minutes to an hour.
You’ll put your dough in and quickly close up the Dutch oven. This is when the dough really rises and cooks, because it steams inside the Dutch oven during this phase. Then you’ll take the lid off the Dutch oven and let it brown and let the crust get crispy. During this phase don’t go strictly by time but by how brown the crust is becoming - check periodically.
~ ~ ~
I have surveyed many, many different bakers and here is the range on the times and temperatures I’ve seen used:
Initial temperature: 500 / initial time: 20 minutes / second temperature: 450 / second time: 20 minutes
Initial temperature: 450 / initial time: 30 minutes / second temperature: 450 / second time: 20 minutes
Initial temperature: 500 / initial time: 17 minutes / second temperature: 400 / second time: 23 minutes
Initial temperature: 465 / initial time: 35 minutes / second temperature: 410 / second time: 10 minutes
Initial temperature: 430 / initial time: 20 minutes / second temperature: 430 / second time: 30 minutes
Initial temperature: 500 / turn oven off for 20 minutes / second temperature: 450 / second time: 20 minutes
How are you to determine what’s best for you? Start at the top of this list and see what you get. If the bottom crust seems a bit too hard or tastes a bit burnt then lower the temperature a bit for your next batch. Keep a piece of paper next to your oven and keep track of what you’ve done and what the results are. Or try the test I show in this video (coming):
More Cooking Tips:
It’s important to not underbake your bread. Underbaked bread will not rise properly and will be more dense than a fully cooked loaf.
During the browning stage, after you remove the lid of the Dutch Oven, you may want to rotate your pan so the bread browns more evenly; depends on your oven. For my oven, I have to divide my browning time in half and turn it at the midpoint.
If your oven isn’t as robust as you think it should be, you may find your bakes improve dramatically by keeping a pizza stone on the lower shelf. This absorbs the heat and then stabilized the heat dispersal. (And wait until you make sourdough pizza dough!)
Don’t skimp on the preheat time for your oven and don’t forget to preheat the Dutch Oven too.
Thank you !
May i know your kitchenaid model nos
Thks alot
I'm using a Professional 550 HD Kitchenaid.
Did they taste any different?
They tasted the same actually, though the one from the stand mixer was a little lighter and fluffier. Thanks for watching and your question.
@@mindoPod Thank You!