Am I the only person who doesn’t care that a fictional cartoon character has a southern accent? Every review so far has brought it up but I literally couldn’t care less
The demo overwhelmed me trying to teach me complicated systems immediately, so I’m reassured by the fact that the proper game will ease me into the systems! Definite buy for me!
@@GeorgeZimmermen we really don’t There is nothing out there that is like the mana series besides the mana games which there are very few of in general.
@@GeorgeZimmermenno we don’t. This has a distinct charm that has been absent from most games. It feels like a high tier ps2 jrpg with modern conveniences.
Southern Bell dragon girl was an interesting casting choice, but think of it like this: It can illustrate that a character is more accustomed to a rural lifestyle
I just picked up this game from the PlayStation store on Black Friday special, soon as I saw the radial wheel, which was a feature from the original SNES Secret of Mana, I clicked buy, its such an iconic feature that I haven't seen repeated very effectively in other games, glad its in this one! Looking forward to getting into it this weekend
my only gripe with the demo was the UI, is way too small... they could increase the size on the UI around 40% and it wouldn't still be covering too much of the field. I created a steam discussion and many people thought the same, hope they listen and add a slider or something, other than that, I wil be picking this up anytime soon!
Best tales of since Vesperia. only the exp scaling sucks... dont need a level system if i am getting capped when i am 1 level higher than the enemy! that really took the fun out of it. makes a level system completely useless.
Thank you for the review. However I'm still curious about the difficulty and the AI of your allies, which was one of the major flaws of Trials of Mana imho. Hard mode was actually really easy, but the difficulty levels they added later felt really unfair to me, especially because your teammates either died too easily or attacked too little in order to interrupt the boss special attack in No Future difficulty
Seems like they adopted Tales of series battle system. Not a bad choice but at the same time nothing unique about that. That said, the selling points of the Mana series lies with the classes and character development.
Hey folks! I tried the demo and I was not the most convince. Heard a lot of good stuff about the mana serie but from the demo it appeared more child'ish than I expected (maybe the chibi don't help much) and the gameplay was also not the most convincing. Anybody that had the same feeling and got more convinced by the full game ?
Looks like an amazing games :( Will buy soon. So sad the devs have all been laid off :( Hopefully the success will mean they can make a new studio soon.
Lol the "radial wheel" was a feature in Secret of Mana on the SNES. Nothing ground breaking. Game looks great, the reviewers obviously never played the earlier ones.
I played the demo and Squeenix likes to throw tutorial boxes at you left and right. But with FF16 where Squeenix was telling us they wanted to make more modern games and after playing this demo as well, I figured out the problem. They think "Action RPG" is modern by itself, but their game design is still stuck in the 90's. Mind you, this doesn't mean that I didn't think it was a decent game demo, and the game itself seems, and is probably, fine. But characters having 1 three or four button press combo that barely changes between a few classes, with a couple of skills, there's no guarding/blocking or dodging. There is a dash but it's a movement rather than a "dodge" mechanic. Even Trials of Mana had the ability to block hits. At least in this game you can still quickly swap between party members or tell them to use skills or items. Despite all those tutorials making it seem like everything was super complex, combat design is a pretty shallow pool. If you want a modern Action RPG, I'd still recommend Granblue Fantasy Relink. Way more engaging game.
Exactly! The gameplay mechanics are just not up to modern standards. Modern games like Star Wars (Fallen Order) or Horizon Zero Dawn, to name a few, have much more fullfilling fighting mechanics, I reckon. I'd favor a Mana game with a 90ies graphical style and 2024's gameplay over what we have now, the exact opposite. There's just no thrill, not even with boss fights. You just go from A to B and slay a bunch of monsters, there aren't even any real puzzles or other challenges. And sure, maybe that's not the point of a Mana game. But to me, Secret of Mana was new and exciting, atmospheric, addictive. I don't see or feel that in Visions.
@Tommekemertens if someone wanted a basic combat game to cruise through for a bit, I still think it'd be a nice game. And I think I'd get it for that reason on a big sale. It's just not the $70USD sort of title to me.
The Trials of Mana Remake had some cheesy voice acting too. I mean… really kind of a bit off but that stuff is never gonna make me hate the gameplay. Totally different category. I accidentally ordered 2 of these. I got a friend buying one from me so I can’t wait to til they both arrive.
Game is probably not a masterpiece, but probably not as bad as most of these outlets are claiming. It looks like a solid 7/10 game, which is par for the course with the mana series.
Can someone give me a bit of a spoiler on this game? Does this game have an evil empire with a flying fortress of doom, or no? Because I can't get into a jrpg without some kind of epic journey trope.
Facts. I'm going to do the opposite, though. I'm going to jump into visions of mana first and then start black myth wukong. I feel like black myth will be a little more difficult and take more time so I'll knock out Visions first.
You mention in the review that VO's are going to be hit and miss for players, which is pretty common when it comes to EN voice casting in these types of games. But you don't really make any mention of language options, which are typically pretty common these days. Did you have the ability to switch to original JP VO's, and if so, did you try them? A lot of the target audience for these style of games are going to want to switch to JP voice cast as soon as physically possible, so just knowing whether you had the option would be useful information, and if you did have the option it might be good to review JP VO's too and include it in the video.
18 hours in and loving it so far! I have one minor gripe. Every time i move through tall grass I always think to myself "Why didn't they add grass movement, when you move through it like in BOTW?" it is very minor, but I notice the static grass every time i move through it, and it kind of breaks immersion.
Legend of Mana was an absolute work of art. Everything about that game I love so much. It's easily one of my top five favorite games of all time. However, all the other mana games I've played really fall short of it's majesty. This game doesn't look like it's going to fare any better for me.
Loving everything about this game except if course the mandatory generic predictable plot. Already makes no sense. Why are the opening characters fearful of being sacrificed when everyone else is happy to die? Theyre the only 2 people that ever that didnt want to die? Also the townsfolk willingly let the alms leave for the tree, they have to anyway. So why are they escaping? Why does leaving the village warrant death? Thats literally what everyone else did. They could just walk out and simply not go to the tree. There was another way to work this plot but they rehashed 1986 instead. Why cant a game have elements without being over the top obvious with it? Why is there a fire village? A water village? Like no one else uses fire? Needs water to live? Again another way to do this, but like Tales of Arise they took the lazy 40 years running plot instead. I love this game & Tales. The graphics are gorgeous, controls are smooth, but Christ will there ever be good writers in this industry???
Intriguing, mostly because of the elemental vessels. If a character's combat does start to feel stale to you, simply switch vessels. This will pretty much change the character completely. It gives different attacks and abilities, probably also changing the weapon type as well which really keeps things fresh. Oh and there's a lot of abilities to unlock so there's always more to grind for and try out.
1:14 Do you like Japanese games because they are unique and different from the western world? If yes, why nerf the experience by using the english dubs instead of the original audio? You will get more immersed plus the japanese VAs have a long tradition of high quality acting. Their work is also usually aimed at a broader age spectrum, so cliches and cartoon voices are less frequent than in dubs.
99% of the time, I prefer Japanese audio. But to say that the experience without it is "nerfed" comes across pretty elitist and weird. People like you give others (who would have been willing to give it a try) excuses to call us weird weebs. Let people enjoy it as they want, the options are there for a reason. This includes the option to listen to the gross country accent.
People tend to play in their native tongue because it’s easier to digest and immerse themselves in the story. I play dual audio all the time but I almost always prefer to play in English even if the Japanese audio tends to be somewhat better in some cases but it’s pretty rare imo besides a few games. This is really an elitist mindset you have regarding the choice of playing it in English.
what´s fresh and dynamic about this? it´s tha same boring button mashing we´ve seen a thousandfold from the tales series or star ocean, and basically almost every modern jrpg. it´s just soooo boring. might as well play an autobattler on mobile.
not every game has to be jiggle physics man... if this developed by chinese dev or korean dev they will make jiggle no matter what because p*rn industry kinda.. got " big " or stoink up... so they need to satisfy a lot of hungry people in there..
@@sapiterguncang768 I started playing the game and I can confirm even from the first mission that it has jiggle physics, although not as crazy as those of Trials of Mana.
I don’t want to spoil anything for you, but I found the story really engaging. Your main character is Val, the Soul Guard and protector of the group, who are on a pilgrimage to the Mana Tree. As you add new members to your party, your job is to keep them safe, though things rarely go as planned! The twists along the way kept me interested and wondering what would happen next honestly. Hope that helps
Completely incorrect. It’s a legal requirement to disclose if you have been provided payment or goodies (such as the game itself in this case) in videos or media that are about the product, such as a review about a game.
Very odd choice for a review: You mention the voice acting can be polarizing and praise the ost, but never include any audio examples of those parts in the review for the viewer to get a sense of what you mean for themselves. Feels negligent. I'll probably just watch someone else play a portion of the game myself.
Looks like game to wait for sale... I see some issues, that would lower my fun and another JRPG just will come in a month, so I will rather wait. Maybe I've played too many games or I'm too old.
I was thinking the same thing. Sucks I got into Genshin before this because I want to try this but it’s too much like Genshin and I want something different
@@Drac1234 kinda bc the world (what i have seen) is very detailed and colorful with lots of stuff to collect, where botw is mostly very empty except for monster camps cities
![เป็นไปได้ไหม - WanMai [Performance Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Eh5hItD4Mr0/mqdefault.jpg)
Am I the only person who doesn’t care that a fictional cartoon character has a southern accent? Every review so far has brought it up but I literally couldn’t care less
Anything is better than Charlotte.
Right it’s no different than her having any other accent. It may be random but it’s not bad or immoral or anything
I don’t care either 🤷🏾♂️ I play games to have fun
to me it kinda adds to the character, specially since it's one you don't hear very often
I’m from the south so it’s cool to see it in gamss
The demo overwhelmed me trying to teach me complicated systems immediately, so I’m reassured by the fact that the proper game will ease me into the systems!
Definite buy for me!
I played it for the bonuses. It was a bit intimidating with all of the stuff already out on the menus
I hope this game does well, it looks so fun and we need more games like this
We literally have too many games like this!
@@GeorgeZimmermen we really don’t
There is nothing out there that is like the mana series besides the mana games which there are very few of in general.
@@GeorgeZimmermenno we don’t. This has a distinct charm that has been absent from most games. It feels like a high tier ps2 jrpg with modern conveniences.
@@GeorgeZimmermenexamples?
@@GeorgeZimmermenwe want a list since there are so many.
I love Careena’s accent! But then again, I also loved Charlotte in Trials of Mana. 😅
I don’t mind it, I can just see it being divisive. Each to their own I say!
@@ArekkzGaming why?
Clean, concise, and well written. Thanks for a solid review. Here's a sub. Keep it up.
Thank you for the kind words! Much appreciated and glad to have you subbed 😁
Im getting Tales of Arise vibes and im so here for it i will definitely be buying visions of mana
I played Secret of Mana on the Snes back in the mid 90s.
Same. Still one of my favorite games of all time. It’s one of the few reasons I own a Switch.
damn unc
Gay?
@@GeorgeZimmermen huh?
@@antagonisstic did I stutter?
As someone who absolutely loved final fantasy rebirth, this is giving me similar vibes in terms of combat?
ive been a fan of legends of mana in ps1. cant wait for this game!
Me too!! Loved that game.
Same. Made me a gamer.
I'm glad you guys actually reviewed the game, unlike games spot
Gamespot and ign= irrelevant opinion. Especially when they are notorious for having the worst reviews/opinions known to the gaming community
Chrono trigger remake with these graphics
I am hoping!! Magus and his theme plzzzz 🙏🏾🙏🏾
That would be a dream come true for me!
omgahhhhhhhd that be So gooooooooood
Southern Bell dragon girl was an interesting casting choice, but think of it like this: It can illustrate that a character is more accustomed to a rural lifestyle
The series has alway benn great for younger gamers as a gateway rpg cant wait to play this one
The demo gave us doubts, but those sons of bitches at Square have put them to rest with the full release!
Considering buying this game next, it looks good and I have always loved the Mana series.
I just picked up this game from the PlayStation store on Black Friday special, soon as I saw the radial wheel, which was a feature from the original SNES Secret of Mana, I clicked buy, its such an iconic feature that I haven't seen repeated very effectively in other games, glad its in this one! Looking forward to getting into it this weekend
Playing the demo now and enjoying it. Can’t wait til 12am to get the full exp.
my only gripe with the demo was the UI, is way too small... they could increase the size on the UI around 40% and it wouldn't still be covering too much of the field.
I created a steam discussion and many people thought the same, hope they listen and add a slider or something, other than that, I wil be picking this up anytime soon!
Can't wait to jump in and give this entry in the series a shot
"the radial wheel is a game changer" BRUH tell me you've never played secret of mana without actually telling me
😂Right?
Sound like a pay review, lol
hoooo.. so the wheel system is from the past game ? never played mana before.. but vision of mana made me interested in mana title...
@@sapiterguncang768it's from the first game
I loved Trials of Mana so much, so I hope this one will be equally as good.
Trails of mana is better and more powerful you get more boring the combat system becomes
@@Katie-hb8iq I don't know if you started it yet, but if you loved trials, you'll love this one.
Reminds me of Tales of Arise…I loved tales of arise 😢
Agreed. Tales of Arise is Solid
Best tales of since Vesperia. only the exp scaling sucks... dont need a level system if i am getting capped when i am 1 level higher than the enemy! that really took the fun out of it. makes a level system completely useless.
Will this game give me a similar experience to that of the Tales franchise? Never played a Mana series game before
Love the southern accent pf the redhead. And the sounds from the PS5 controller during gameplay are nice.
Did they fix the clunkyness from the demo?
Thank you for the review. However I'm still curious about the difficulty and the AI of your allies, which was one of the major flaws of Trials of Mana imho. Hard mode was actually really easy, but the difficulty levels they added later felt really unfair to me, especially because your teammates either died too easily or attacked too little in order to interrupt the boss special attack in No Future difficulty
I think Secret of Mana was the first game with a ring menu. Am I right?
Definitely. Seiken Densetsu 2 and 3 had ring menus.
my birthday can't come fast enough I NEED THIS NOW
the first main mana title since 20 years
Seems like they adopted Tales of series battle system. Not a bad choice but at the same time nothing unique about that. That said, the selling points of the Mana series lies with the classes and character development.
Hey folks!
I tried the demo and I was not the most convince. Heard a lot of good stuff about the mana serie but from the demo it appeared more child'ish than I expected (maybe the chibi don't help much) and the gameplay was also not the most convincing. Anybody that had the same feeling and got more convinced by the full game ?
Full game is better
Looks like an amazing games :( Will buy soon. So sad the devs have all been laid off :( Hopefully the success will mean they can make a new studio soon.
They gave her an accent, since she is talking in osaka-accent in japanese. They probably just wanted to emphasize that she speaks in an accent.
Lol the "radial wheel" was a feature in Secret of Mana on the SNES. Nothing ground breaking. Game looks great, the reviewers obviously never played the earlier ones.
I love southern accent girls in fantasy lol Xoti from Pillars of Eternity 2 is definitely #1 waifu best girl
I played the demo and Squeenix likes to throw tutorial boxes at you left and right. But with FF16 where Squeenix was telling us they wanted to make more modern games and after playing this demo as well, I figured out the problem. They think "Action RPG" is modern by itself, but their game design is still stuck in the 90's. Mind you, this doesn't mean that I didn't think it was a decent game demo, and the game itself seems, and is probably, fine. But characters having 1 three or four button press combo that barely changes between a few classes, with a couple of skills, there's no guarding/blocking or dodging. There is a dash but it's a movement rather than a "dodge" mechanic. Even Trials of Mana had the ability to block hits. At least in this game you can still quickly swap between party members or tell them to use skills or items. Despite all those tutorials making it seem like everything was super complex, combat design is a pretty shallow pool.
If you want a modern Action RPG, I'd still recommend Granblue Fantasy Relink. Way more engaging game.
Exactly! The gameplay mechanics are just not up to modern standards. Modern games like Star Wars (Fallen Order) or Horizon Zero Dawn, to name a few, have much more fullfilling fighting mechanics, I reckon. I'd favor a Mana game with a 90ies graphical style and 2024's gameplay over what we have now, the exact opposite. There's just no thrill, not even with boss fights. You just go from A to B and slay a bunch of monsters, there aren't even any real puzzles or other challenges. And sure, maybe that's not the point of a Mana game. But to me, Secret of Mana was new and exciting, atmospheric, addictive. I don't see or feel that in Visions.
@Tommekemertens if someone wanted a basic combat game to cruise through for a bit, I still think it'd be a nice game. And I think I'd get it for that reason on a big sale. It's just not the $70USD sort of title to me.
The Trials of Mana Remake had some cheesy voice acting too. I mean… really kind of a bit off but that stuff is never gonna make me hate the gameplay. Totally different category. I accidentally ordered 2 of these. I got a friend buying one from me so I can’t wait to til they both arrive.
In the demo enemies died too quick? Do you feel this is true in the full game?
Looks expensive, might be worth lol
Game is probably not a masterpiece, but probably not as bad as most of these outlets are claiming. It looks like a solid 7/10 game, which is par for the course with the mana series.
I wonder if this game will be fun after Trials of Mana
Better than outlaws.
Can someone give me a bit of a spoiler on this game?
Does this game have an evil empire with a flying fortress of doom, or no?
Because I can't get into a jrpg without some kind of epic journey trope.
Just a quick question, do this game have permanent stats boosting item?
Yes it does :)
i rather wait for secret of evermore with this treatment.
bro! ... really think that will happen? if so than terranigma and Lufia 2 are next!
Almost finished Black Myth Wukong. Visions of Mana is next. I play always all games on Japanese or Original Voice.
Exactly Japanese only or Asian
Facts. I'm going to do the opposite, though. I'm going to jump into visions of mana first and then start black myth wukong. I feel like black myth will be a little more difficult and take more time so I'll knock out Visions first.
Why does every review bring up the southern accent😂
The voice acting part came up twice, without any examples.
You mention in the review that VO's are going to be hit and miss for players, which is pretty common when it comes to EN voice casting in these types of games. But you don't really make any mention of language options, which are typically pretty common these days. Did you have the ability to switch to original JP VO's, and if so, did you try them? A lot of the target audience for these style of games are going to want to switch to JP voice cast as soon as physically possible, so just knowing whether you had the option would be useful information, and if you did have the option it might be good to review JP VO's too and include it in the video.
❤
Better than Gamespot's racist review.
its not racist review.. only the dumb find this game good..
18 hours in and loving it so far! I have one minor gripe. Every time i move through tall grass I always think to myself "Why didn't they add grass movement, when you move through it like in BOTW?" it is very minor, but I notice the static grass every time i move through it, and it kind of breaks immersion.
Can we have pets? Like Legend of Mana?
Legend of Mana was an absolute work of art. Everything about that game I love so much. It's easily one of my top five favorite games of all time. However, all the other mana games I've played really fall short of it's majesty. This game doesn't look like it's going to fare any better for me.
I thought Trials of Mana was amazing
Legend of Mana is when the series went to shit good art though. This is making Mana series good again.
@@paulerlingheuser8453 to each their own, I guess
Palworld?
combat looks so damn slow!
i am playing lost judgment right now and the combat in that game is ligthing fast. maybe that blures my vision
Loving everything about this game except if course the mandatory generic predictable plot. Already makes no sense. Why are the opening characters fearful of being sacrificed when everyone else is happy to die? Theyre the only 2 people that ever that didnt want to die? Also the townsfolk willingly let the alms leave for the tree, they have to anyway. So why are they escaping? Why does leaving the village warrant death? Thats literally what everyone else did. They could just walk out and simply not go to the tree. There was another way to work this plot but they rehashed 1986 instead. Why cant a game have elements without being over the top obvious with it? Why is there a fire village? A water village? Like no one else uses fire? Needs water to live? Again another way to do this, but like Tales of Arise they took the lazy 40 years running plot instead. I love this game & Tales. The graphics are gorgeous, controls are smooth, but Christ will there ever be good writers in this industry???
Game is brill. I look forward to seeing what the studio makes next.
Unfortunately the studio is closing
Got closed down the day it released..
😥
How does gameplay handle? Intriguing or straightforward and boring?
Intriguing, mostly because of the elemental vessels. If a character's combat does start to feel stale to you, simply switch vessels. This will pretty much change the character completely. It gives different attacks and abilities, probably also changing the weapon type as well which really keeps things fresh. Oh and there's a lot of abilities to unlock so there's always more to grind for and try out.
1:14 Do you like Japanese games because they are unique and different from the western world? If yes, why nerf the experience by using the english dubs instead of the original audio? You will get more immersed plus the japanese VAs have a long tradition of high quality acting. Their work is also usually aimed at a broader age spectrum, so cliches and cartoon voices are less frequent than in dubs.
99% of the time, I prefer Japanese audio. But to say that the experience without it is "nerfed" comes across pretty elitist and weird. People like you give others (who would have been willing to give it a try) excuses to call us weird weebs. Let people enjoy it as they want, the options are there for a reason. This includes the option to listen to the gross country accent.
People tend to play in their native tongue because it’s easier to digest and immerse themselves in the story.
I play dual audio all the time but I almost always prefer to play in English even if the Japanese audio tends to be somewhat better in some cases but it’s pretty rare imo besides a few games.
This is really an elitist mindset you have regarding the choice of playing it in English.
I used to play jrpg and watch anime in Japanese. But I gave dubs a trial lately and I can't go back to watching subs anymore.
Don't be a weeb.
Because I watch anime in English dub.
Thanks
I hate sub anything, dub all the way.
sounds like a paid ad
Her voice isn’t a problem in Japanese
Unless you don't like it
Unless you want to understand what she says
This is what I came here to say.
Please y'all at least try Japanese voices with subs... Please... Just try...
@@YournickshereI watch cutscenes not read them! If I wanted to read a movie I'll watch a silent film! 😠
Nah im playing with the english dub but thanks tho@@Yournickshere
curse of modern game. graphic is amazing
but feel empty.
Nice
is this game available for MacOS?
What 40 Hours of Gameplay Revealed! ....lmaoo stroke
what´s fresh and dynamic about this? it´s tha same boring button mashing we´ve seen a thousandfold from the tales series or star ocean, and basically almost every modern jrpg. it´s just soooo boring. might as well play an autobattler on mobile.
Wowee! This looks incredible! almost as cool as the real world! Where, mayhaps, may I purchase such a grand adventure?
I like to play games in their original audio, I’m not gonna play a Japanese game in English audio
You’re so cool
Ok
They nerfed the jiggle physics.
not every game has to be jiggle physics man... if this developed by chinese dev or korean dev they will make jiggle no matter what because p*rn industry kinda.. got " big " or stoink up... so they need to satisfy a lot of hungry people in there..
@@sapiterguncang768 I started playing the game and I can confirm even from the first mission that it has jiggle physics, although not as crazy as those of Trials of Mana.
@@Iulian_333 trials of mana got me crazy 🤣
imagine game like this not performing constantly 60 fprs...
I’ll have to play in Japanese cuz that one southern accent is annoying as hell.
You don't say anything about the story. What's it about?
I don’t want to spoil anything for you, but I found the story really engaging. Your main character is Val, the Soul Guard and protector of the group, who are on a pilgrimage to the Mana Tree. As you add new members to your party, your job is to keep them safe, though things rarely go as planned! The twists along the way kept me interested and wondering what would happen next honestly. Hope that helps
No word on the story?
Generic and boring
Why not just play in the original voice act language, dub almost always worse than original
Whats wrong with a southern accent? and what kind of people does it trigger?
A professional reviewer would never thank the developer/publisher for a key. Seems to conflict with the integrity of the review.
Completely incorrect. It’s a legal requirement to disclose if you have been provided payment or goodies (such as the game itself in this case) in videos or media that are about the product, such as a review about a game.
@@ArekkzGaming I didn't know that. But it seems true after some googling. Why don't other reviewers do this, then?
2:00 So it's the exact same skeleton of playstyle as FF7 Remake.
Very odd choice for a review: You mention the voice acting can be polarizing and praise the ost, but never include any audio examples of those parts in the review for the viewer to get a sense of what you mean for themselves. Feels negligent. I'll probably just watch someone else play a portion of the game myself.
Looks like game to wait for sale... I see some issues, that would lower my fun and another JRPG just will come in a month, so I will rather wait. Maybe I've played too many games or I'm too old.
....genshin remake?
Mana franchise is older
I was thinking the same thing. Sucks I got into Genshin before this because I want to try this but it’s too much like Genshin and I want something different
How's this compared to Zelda BotW?
Not compareable
Zelda=Better exploration
Visions of Mana=Better combat
@@Drac1234 kinda bc the world (what i have seen) is very detailed and colorful with lots of stuff to collect, where botw is mostly very empty except for monster camps cities
$30-40 game
why furry tho
No co-op? Pass
Yeah. Amazing how a 2024 game has less features than a 90s one.
@@GollumsJealousdid the older versions of mana have co-op?