Thanks for posting this video CBC! I just want to say thank you to all the industrial businesses that opened their doors to me for filming and asking questions about this topic. It's truly crazy to see all the different businesses that exist behind the scenes to make our modern lives possible.
uuuuh, we're doing that too [e.g. Metrotown]. Combined with rezoning industrial spaces, it's still not enough. And "densifying" is a short, cute, little word for displacing hundreds of households, negotiating dozens of land transfers, AND persuading city hall to rezone, a huge, slow, and complex process.
@@dudesgothair you only need to look at ALL THE FREAKIN high rises popping up like mushrooms EVERYWHERE to see what we've done, and it's still not enough - so nah don't try getting all ac-ro-nym on me. [hint: look at Stats Canada's latest #'s at the percentage of second/investment properties]
Hey Uytae, I am a mechanic, the other thing to consider is using alternative spaces to perform automotive work. I have know people that do repairs on the side, but not having a proper industrial address creates serious problems. I use their space when I have customer cars to service, or I complete the repair at their place (I bring my tools usually on my bicycle for this). I pay a reasonable rent in this city, but renting an industrial space is completely outside my budget.
100% agree, I think that light industrial businesses could totally work within existing residential/commercial neighbourhoods. There's a auto-mechanic beside a bakery near my neighbourhood and it's a well-loved spot
This affected my life greatly. I couldn't find any decent jobs growing up in downtown Toronto. It was either office work I was unqualified for or minimum wage call centre jobs, construction labor, sales. All the industrial jobs were in the suburbs, and I didn't have a car. Couldn't get a car since insurance for new drivers in Toronto is crazy expensive if you are not on your parents policy. Finally left Toronto at 35, found some basic factory work, and a well paying apprenticeship after a year. There were way more job opportunities for me in smaller cities. I actually heard back for jobs I applied for and turned down multiple jobs I would have killed for when I was in Toronto. If you want to work with your hands in Toronto, there are only construction jobs essentially.
City planners are 100% aware of this issue and would love to up-zone single-family neighborhoods. But they can’t because politicians and public hearings stop it most of the time.
@@Skip6235 Agreed. It is all a political and classism problem. The removal of single-family exclusive zoning to allow semi-detached, lot splits, duplex, triplex, ADUs, and modest walk-ups (in tandem with expedited permitting) would allow an order of magnitude increase in housing supply. It would not be the scary radical change people think but largely 3-4 houses per street that change. This issue of housing is one of the single biggest hurdle facing North American cities. Eventually things will have to shift in the direction of change as most North American cities will not be able to afford their service and capital costs after all of the suburban infrastructure comes due for upgrades. The fiscal issue n tandem with the housing crunch will have to spur change.
@@Skip6235 That's the solution I think about watching this video. Single-family zone is the issue. Imagine transforming suburbs into walkable multi-family neighborhoods, would love this city even more.
Maybe they need to adopt a zoning policy similar to Japan where they allow things like light industrial and warehouses within residential and commercial areas. You obviously want to be smart about it, you don't want it to be like Texas where you put a prone to explosion fertilizer factory next to a grammar school and old folks home.
Or Calgary where the HUB Oil plant was across the street from a mobile home park. I saw it BLOW as I came up over the Olympic jump venue returning to town.
Came here to comment exactly this. We need Japan zoning for industrial to allow low traffic, low noise and low pollution industry to be allowed in residential and commercial spaces.
Excellent narrative Uytae! One point missed in the Single dwelling neighbourhoods: They're way more expensive for developers to purchase to intensify, whereas industrial lands tends to be cheaper to purchase. It'd be great to get a deep dive into this cost differential, factoring in the cost of remediation on those converted industrial lands.
Oh yeah! A developer could only need to buy one or two properties (especially if a large warehouse or factory) instead of dozens of homes to get the same result.
the Canadian way is "Yes I agree we need to fix issue 1/2/3/4 etc, as long as it doesn't cost me money or affect me". Everyone here in Toronto can agree on much need affordable housing, yet developers are always met with resistance because "not in my backyard".
What is so wrong is single-use zoning. Look at Japan, a country with limited land but still with relatively high manufacturing (read industrial) high-quality economy. Most cities in Japan have mixed-use zoning laws and are still managing to keep their businesses where they should be without compromising the quality of life for residents and economic impacts on businesses and communities. Few more interesting indicators: 1. Relatively low levels of homelessness. 2. Higher efficiency and impact of community service programs. 3. Well-designed public transport which could be used for both domestic (home-related) commutes and business commutes eliminating the need for purpose-built transport solely focus on one type of commuter and hence more profitable. 4. Lower ownership of cars as public commute options are ample and expanding.
Interesting video. I work for an electrical wholesaler in Burnaby and in a few short years our warehouse has been surrounded by high rise towers. I feel like the businesses in the area are vital but in some bizarre twist of irony are going to be crowded out by the very industry they often serve. Ultimately I feel our warehouse will move at some point as property has become far too valuable for anything other than high density real estate. Sadly this will mean a lot of decent paying industrial jobs will be eliminated or relocated, as discussed in this video.
I'd love to see our regulations that really make multi-story industrial hard or impossible to build changed to. In many other countries they've returned to the old days of big multi-story warehouses and industrial buildings. I saw a tour of a factory that makes model trains, quite a big setup, and it was on like the 6th floor of a huge industrial building that was serviced with big freight elevators. Back in the day in north american cities we had much more industry near workers, and much more multi-story industry too.
Great point. There is a shortage of square footage but at the same time nearly all of our warehouses are the same, cheap, tilt-up construction, single story design with massive parking lots surrounding them because they are in the middle of nowhere and we don't run adequate transit to these areas.
This is so true. And who eats the cost of increased industrial rents or companies having to ship in their products or services from farther away? At the end of the day, those costs are passed down to the consumer.
When he showed the shipping to and from Calgary, suddenly everything made way more sense why retailers here are so reluctant to slash prices, and why Vancouver is so expensive.
Imo the biggest issue we have is how inefficiently we use lots we have, and how restrictive our zoning are for efficiency of said lots. Single family housing should be fine; most people would love to own their own home without strata or upstairs neighbours, no? The problem is that we build unreasonably large houses for a family of 3 or 4, and have wasteful, pointless set backs and side restrictions. Ideally residential zoning would be more flexible in general, but if we build most of our single family zoned areas with UK style row housing, each block would have twice the houses or more, yet still maintain a local street atmosphere, individual properties without strata, and still have back yards - the yards are narrower, yes, but with terraced/row houses set closer to the street, the back yards are actual quite big usually! Similar issue for tons of our commercial, (especially malls,) and industrial spaces. A warehouse is important, but so many of them, especially in Burnaby and the tri-cities, waste a massive amount of the lot space with either more parking lot than needed, or worse, just setting everything back from the road for no reason and leaving a ton of unused space. Compare newer Burnaby industrial to older Vancouver or Richmond industrial and you can quickly see how much space is wasted since the 70s. Zero lot planning maximizes space, lessens waste, creates more walkable cities, (even light to medium industrial areas!,) and thus helps establish an actual community space rather than half empty wasteland.
SFH are not the problem; there is not enough family housing and people are not having kids or pushed out. Wages, laundering, and foreign investing is the problem. They started to tackle them but not enough. Condos still sit empty, developers still build luxury investments, and launderers still find loopholes. Once the money's here and they've purchased multiple properties - including numbered corporations - it's too late. But they can't expropriate, so they attack the middle class. Nevermind decades long tax evasion. Meanwhile, all the focus is on how this drives SFH prices, and not on wages remaining stagnant since the 70s, because corporations control the media. Develop main arteries, fine. Warehouses in the burbs, fine. But deal with all the white collar crime creating a dual-economy, or we'll never win. And families need homes, in the city.
Totally agree. Basically the laws for houses are as if you had to park your car no closer than 10 feet away from the car in front and behind you, you'd fit 40% less cars along the street. Same with houses. Get rid of set-backs and you could have more space in the back yard. Let people build up to the property line and most lots could have 2 or 3 row houses on them instead of a single "Vancouver Special". Vancouver home owners as a group seem really dumb honestly. They should want this and should be pissed off that they can't for example re-mortgage at age 50, redevelop their own land into 2 row houses and a laneway house, give themselves the best unit and rent or sell the other units and retire at 55 with a bigger asset than they started with.
@@fallenshallrise Statscan says 50% of new builds are being bought by investors. Supply is a developer's myth. What you're describing is a sardine can hellscape, the antithesis of the North American dream. Stop being plebs. Demand higher wages (which are 10x less than it takes to buy a home, Toronto is only 6x) instead of lower expectations, or move to Tokyo.
It's amazing how many issues point to single-family housing areas. Land use, environmental impact, housing prices, car dependence, the list goes on. NIMBY-ism is a huge barrier to progress.
I agree, but we should not be further making single-family housing in this urban sprawl way. I would say it's foolish land development and colonial obsessions with suburbia and the American dream instead of NIMBY.
@@lenadahling I definitely agree that compact city apartments are not the place to fit in a family. But coming from I do not live in a city. More units would push down housing prices in the market
@@colinsutherland4709 Developers are driving the narrative. We can have warehouses in Abbotsford, and towers on multi-lane streets, and leave SFH alone. Problem solved. But developers and communists want to develop everything, deregulate everything, and pit the upper and lower middle classes against each other while they stay above the fray. And no one in corporate media's talking about wages.
This is great! CBC should keep more stories coming about the driving forces in society that affect everyone - how things in the economy actually function. Maybe Vancouverites would consider making different choices to avoid the massive CO2 emissions of shipping to and from Calgary.
The crisis in Industrial land is a excellent way to attract businesses in the Interior. If the Province does it right, then we might see Kamloop or Prince George become the Biotech capital of Canada.
That is precisely WHY one of the last Federal mandates just before Harper left office was to initiate high speed internet EVERYWHERE, as it's critical for job creation. My inventor friend had to MOVE from Salmon Arm to Kelowna because the AutoCad access he needed with NASA in Chicago was high speed.
definitely. with jobs creation in the interior or the north, there will be development. Those places also have a lot lower cost of living. Employees can save more money in the bank with the lower cost of housing and startups/companies can save money from office space. The tech sector recently had waves of layoffs and with the rise of remote work, office jobs can go to other places. even BC government employees can work remotely inside the province.
Though we need a massive transportation overhaul too. The rail lines struggle to keep Calgary stocked. BC needs investments to twin-track all mainlines here - Kamloops would be great, but we need the CN and CP mainlands twinned. Bonus points for electrification in the process! Same with Prince George - twin the tracks. And ensure both rail operators can access there (damn CN BS deal) Kelowna could had also theoretically housed industrial on their former Tolko lands, jus they kissed that goodbye when they ripped all their tracks up.
There's no reason a warehouse can't be beautiful....they were 100 years ago. But now we readily accept bland for industrial buildings because "that's how they are". It's a choice, and we don't need to be this way.
Fantastic video! Completely nailed the challenges of land constrained markets like Vancouver while appreciating not just the value but the absolute necessity of the industrial real estate industry.
Very interesting video and agree we need to keep industrial lands. Industry also needs to change where it can produce items. Manufacturing of goods does not always need to be done at the ground level of the building. Many places where older housing exists should be densified first. I was surprised when i drove by one of my old apartment building in Marpole to see it had been taken down and is not a six story rental building. marpole is full of three story small apartment buildings that could be redeveloped and increase the housing stock there very easily.
Now industries are starting to care about the rental shortage. I don't really care too much if rona, walmart, home depot have to sort goods elsewhere. The industrial land really should be focused on services that benefit local residents. As for developing multi unit housing on land, what do we think people are going to be happy with? A big multi-dwelling skyscraper in a residential neighborhood, or in a transitioning industrial area? I do think the single-family units are now old-school and out of date for efficient land use, but expecting that you can take over a neighborhood is also wrong. At the end of the day, if there is nowhere to live, there is nowhere for industry workers to live
This is why I was so annoyed about the opposition to Burnaby GRO. We have to divert organic waste from landfills to reduce emissions and we don't have enough facilities to process it. There was space in an industrial park beside a trash incinerator. But everyone was so annoyed that we were developing some of the park land beside the trash incinerator. Well, if we can't use land in an industrial park are people going to be happier if we build in the middle of people's houses?
I admit I wouldn’t want a sewage plant by my house or apartment, but if someone tried to set up a food processing plant by my house I’d be totally fine with that. Maybe we also need to rezone to allow industrial uses that aren’t especially harmful to be next to housing. To be honest, I’m about as War on Cars as you can get, but having an auto rehab near my apartment wouldn’t bother me actually (I already do have some). Maybe allowing these types of industrial ises to spread would be called for.
I lived in the brewery district for a year...for anyone thinking about it, DONT. The train is deafening...4 blasts every 4 hours. Not worth it, and absolutely terrible.
Great video! Ontario has provisions to protect their industrial lands (they call them employment lands), for this reason. It would be interesting to compare the taxes generated between the high density residential uses and industrial lands since the mill rate is typically higher for industrial uses but they may use less municipal services.
Huge towers popping up in place of old warehouses isn't evidence that we are doing a good job adding density - it's just more evidence that we've failed in building medium density throughout the majority of our city. Because the minority who have been grandfathered in are given a louder voice than the future majority that could be living in a neighbourhood that is lightly densified by adding duplexes, row houses and corner 4-1 apartment blocks with local cafes, restaurants and grocery stores. Look at how badly Strathcona has failed. The only units they've added are on the railroad land north of Powell and all they've accomplished in their own neighbourhood is 1 by 1 convert houses that were multiple apartments into a single house and convert buildings with many affordable apartment buildings into a few expensive ones. The only density that remains is historical. New people take over the neighbourhood, change it, then try to "preserve its character" after the fact (which is code for "keep out the poor people").
The only industrial land I am 100% in favour of redeveloping is waterfront industries. Some of these areas are a legacy from when water access was far more important to shipping than it is today. In Toronto we redeveloped large sections of the waterfront and the end result is some of the best urban streets in the city along a beautiful waterfront.
Water is by far still the most efficient method of transport for many industry uses. Like for Vancouver, it’s why Granville Island is home to concrete processing. They can bring all the raw materials by barge vs the magnitudes of truck traffic.
If we can rezone industrial land, why can’t we create more industrial land. Take Burnaby for example, rezoning will densify neighborhoods along the sky train line where is pretty much industrial land. Is that something city planners need to fix as city expanses?
Not many people know about this Walmart recently warehouse just started not too long ago and located in surrey and which is why you see more walmart trailers on the road 😊
The other end of the industrial land crisis is when new industrial land is built on agricultural land. Cheap land away from residential neighborhoods? Well there's this field right here doing nothing (except feeding us). No one will mind if we put a warehouse here. This is happening in the Big Bend area of South Burnaby. There are a few cranberry fields left of a very fertile farm land that's now being crowded out by warehouses and manufacturing businesses. Burnaby also wants to convert a section of the foreshore park wetlands into a waste treatment plant.
I think its also worth mentioning that since the late 20th century, most of the Industrial land in western countries, the has been basically transferred to Asian countries like India, China, etc. So as businesses grow, they usually outsource their manufacturing centers to other countries.
My former roommate and long time friend retired just about the time the Labatt's facility was at it's end. But it was an OLD, OLD facility, like the "Molsons" land in Vancouver. And the land ended up being more valuable than the business. What do you THINK WOULD happen??? This area is also called "Sapperton" one of the oldest areas in BC. And one of the LAST to be seriously developed.
Vancouver is one of the top enclaves where the richest in the world camp their wealth here. Vancouver is at the top of the list. And with global warming, wars, famines etc on the rise, Vancouver will only become more and more divided in terms of economic disparities. Do not be surprised if they start introducing neighbourhood gateways and passports just for intra-municipal travel in the near future.
Fascinating video about a topic that most people don’t think about. I live in Seattle and one thing I’ve noticed about Vancouver is how constrained it is by its geography. There much less land to build on than Seattle because the mountains are so much closer to the city and there’s the hard limit to the south at the border.
Astounding how developers always capture and win the narrative. So... build towers in Shaughnessy so you can build a warehouse in New West... instead of building a warehouse in Abbotsford, so you can build towers at Commerical/Broadway (which is already happening.) The 1% have successfully pit the upper and lower middle classes against each other, and stay well above the fray. Is building unaffordable shoeboxes in single family neighborhoods the "missing middle" housing? Does no one want kids anymore, and if not, why do we need so much more housing? So many soundbite narratives that go unquestioned. So much extremism instead of nuance. Abbotsford is a heck of a lot closer than Calgary. And there are plenty of multi-lane streets on which to build low-rise towers, without infringing into SFH neighborhoods. Where's this sane moderation? Guess it doesn't capture clicks.
I see your point and agree. The lost of industrial land is also adding to global warming, as workers and goods must travel to the city. Like food this is a problem if anything disrupts the flow we are going to hurt.
A really great meld of industrial and retail I find is Granville Island. If you've visited you've probably seen the big art installation on the smoke stacks for ocean concrete. It just shows, if done right, there should be no reason that they can't coexist.
Do Canadian cities have large greenbelts? My city has abandoned industrial areas, but forests continue to be bulldozed to build new warehouses on the outskirts.
Vancouver has one of the largest greenbelts anywhere, and extremely close to the city centre, sometimes with high rises across the street from farmland.
A green belt is not the same thing as park land. It's typically land surrounding the developed part of a metro area that can only be used for uses like farming or environmental reserves, to slow down sprawl or to preserve productive farmland. The GTA has one, as does Ottawa. Quebec and BC have agricultural land reserves.
great video! and valid points. Industrial land may not be "flashy", they might even cause land value in nearby neighborhoods to drop, but they are integral to a growing city.
Great work on the video. You should be a model for other CBC content creators. If Vancouver doesn’t create van affordable solution to individual use they are going to continue to lose out the Alberta and especially the states.
Yeah, remove restrictive zoning on R1! But it's also worth considering making "new cities" instead of constantly investing in Toronto and Vancouver, that way they can focus on what they do best (farming and shipping).
This was a very well done look at the issue. The Burquitlam area of Coquitlam is an example of an area that is taking single family lots and increasing density. There is a problem with densification of an area like that however. The low cost rent apartment buildings adjacent to the single family lots are torn down and replaced with high rise condos. Yes there are some low cost rentals in some new builds and some market rental buildings, but developing areas see huge increases in rent costs and market rentals in the same area are now much more unaffordable than they were pre-development, in just a few years. The lack of buildable land in Greater Vancouver requires a region wide more than city focused approach.
It's not that it never happens but it's so rare that a single family home is turned into say a 4 story apartment block with say 10 apartments and massively more common that a 4 story apartment building is torn down and replaced with a condo tower. The way we are obliterating medium density our cities will soon be nothing but super tall towers and single family homes with low income service workers in their basements paying their mortgage for them.
Great video. Every summer I take my fishing boat to the shelter island shipyard. Last yea I heard rumblings that they might be getting redeveloped. If that happens it will be impossible to get my boat out of the water for yearly mandatory inspections. I hear thE same is a happening for arrow shipyard diwn the river sone of the support companies have already move i ald becaise of rent values. We used to get out propeller repaired innthr shipyard, now its 1hr drive away.You cant move those shipyards inland its impossible. It will be a major crisis for the entire marine Industry.
I have become so disillusioned with modern North American land use to the point I don't want politics or public participation any longer in how land use is allocated. Land use and density targets should be set in accordance to service capacity and transportation with minimum density targets set in each area. The public can be brought in to participate and provide feedback on anything that is not as-of-right but anything as-of-right goes straight to the planning desk. More effort should be placed on designing and how a structure works into the context of the site and area and there is where feedback and dialogue should take place. If the density fits squarely within service and transportation capacity there should not be any objection. All of the modern city issues we face could have been seen coming a mile-away but the current system just creates piece-meal solutions while never addressing the core issues at hand. Get politics and public participation and established a transparent but prescribed base-level of land allocation based on sound best practices and data. /rant
Agree. In the future state of a medium density neighbourhood the population would be 50/50 people in single family homes and people in row houses or walk up apartments. In the current state half of those people have no voice because they are being excluded from these neighbourhoods. They have no voice because they are being concentrated into their own hyper dense areas or forced outside of city limits entirely.
We'll for starters how about lets turn Douglas Island and Barnston Island (In between Pitt Meadows & Surrey) into industrial land its just literally empty. They can be like Annacis Island. Why is no one having that conversation.
honest question: what are the challenges involved in making a new city, like a twin city, with optimized zoning distribution, somewhere in the Fraser valley, like around Chilliwack or Abbotsford or something?
What's the title of the outro song? Shazam can't find it, and you've not added it into the credits! Did a search online for the lyrics and still couldn't get anything, please help.
Blaming badly needed housing is a distraction. The real problem is much “industrial” land is being used for car dealerships, mini storages, big box retail, film studios and office parks, all these uses can and should be in mixed use developments.
And isn’t the old Molson industrial land (in Vancouver) also slated to be redeveloped into residential/commercial? Like sure it looks good on paper, but like yeah, industrial lands bring in the bulk of revenue to municipalities. Without that tax base going forward, there will be budget shortfalls and they’ll have to be picked up by homeowners. RS-1 zoning is where density should be taking place.
I really don't understand why governments doesn't use the Japanese zoning system. It's all mixed use even industrial the only part where you can't build homes is in heavy industrial area's. You can build in quasi industrial areas. Meaning it will solve all 3 things at once residential, commercial, and industrial. Plus have an area that is just heavy industrial. And i know people doesn't like that be people ve like "NIMBY!" Fact is it's not in your backyard is it!? it is in your neighbors backyard that wants it there. Freedom to buy property and do what you want with it with the guidelines the government has set up. And in-between all of that there could be parks and beautiful walking paths with man made streams. Think about it you build your home on a quasi industrial land, where it has minimal pollution because most of it is warehouses, car factories, non toxic storage, tech industries etc. Etc. And decide under your home you want to build a restaurant, corner store, or what ever your business most likely be successful just because you have customers going to work and they need to eat.
Thanks for posting this video CBC! I just want to say thank you to all the industrial businesses that opened their doors to me for filming and asking questions about this topic. It's truly crazy to see all the different businesses that exist behind the scenes to make our modern lives possible.
Good on CBC for picking you up! Great content, and the storytelling and research is masterful. Well done About Here!
Congrats Uytae Lee!!! Love your content on About Here -- so cool to see your reach grow!
great video Uytae, congrats
Asian investors ruining life in Canada!!!
Soon, we'll all be living in China and the Chinese will be living in Canada.
Utyae is the best story teller! can make anything interesting and he uses his superpower for good!
If low-density neighbourhoods could be densified, there'd be no demand to rezone industrial land. Great video!
uuuuh, we're doing that too [e.g. Metrotown]. Combined with rezoning industrial spaces, it's still not enough. And "densifying" is a short, cute, little word for displacing hundreds of households, negotiating dozens of land transfers, AND persuading city hall to rezone, a huge, slow, and complex process.
@@bmolitor615 Metrotown wasn't a low-density neighbourhood.
@@bopete3204 don't be pedantic. It's increasing its density massively.
@@bmolitor615 You only need to look at the zoning mao to see how much we've actually done. Of course next to nothing is still not enough
@@dudesgothair you only need to look at ALL THE FREAKIN high rises popping up like mushrooms EVERYWHERE to see what we've done, and it's still not enough - so nah don't try getting all ac-ro-nym on me. [hint: look at Stats Canada's latest #'s at the percentage of second/investment properties]
Hey Uytae, I am a mechanic, the other thing to consider is using alternative spaces to perform automotive work. I have know people that do repairs on the side, but not having a proper industrial address creates serious problems. I use their space when I have customer cars to service, or I complete the repair at their place (I bring my tools usually on my bicycle for this).
I pay a reasonable rent in this city, but renting an industrial space is completely outside my budget.
100% agree, I think that light industrial businesses could totally work within existing residential/commercial neighbourhoods. There's a auto-mechanic beside a bakery near my neighbourhood and it's a well-loved spot
Love Uytae's work everywhere I find him! Real up and comer.
Uytae is gifted in story telling.
Uytae's stories are really captivating. He's really good. Man knows how to tell stories.
This affected my life greatly. I couldn't find any decent jobs growing up in downtown Toronto. It was either office work I was unqualified for or minimum wage call centre jobs, construction labor, sales. All the industrial jobs were in the suburbs, and I didn't have a car. Couldn't get a car since insurance for new drivers in Toronto is crazy expensive if you are not on your parents policy.
Finally left Toronto at 35, found some basic factory work, and a well paying apprenticeship after a year. There were way more job opportunities for me in smaller cities. I actually heard back for jobs I applied for and turned down multiple jobs I would have killed for when I was in Toronto. If you want to work with your hands in Toronto, there are only construction jobs essentially.
I hope our city planners watch this.
City planners are 100% aware of this issue and would love to up-zone single-family neighborhoods. But they can’t because politicians and public hearings stop it most of the time.
@@Skip6235 Agreed. It is all a political and classism problem. The removal of single-family exclusive zoning to allow semi-detached, lot splits, duplex, triplex, ADUs, and modest walk-ups (in tandem with expedited permitting) would allow an order of magnitude increase in housing supply. It would not be the scary radical change people think but largely 3-4 houses per street that change. This issue of housing is one of the single biggest hurdle facing North American cities. Eventually things will have to shift in the direction of change as most North American cities will not be able to afford their service and capital costs after all of the suburban infrastructure comes due for upgrades. The fiscal issue n tandem with the housing crunch will have to spur change.
@@Skip6235 That's the solution I think about watching this video. Single-family zone is the issue. Imagine transforming suburbs into walkable multi-family neighborhoods, would love this city even more.
Planners are totally aware of this - if anything they would lean more towards protecting industrial land. But there’s never a clear cut answer!
@Gia Huy no one's having families in a tiny little box for a home. Good luck with that.
Maybe they need to adopt a zoning policy similar to Japan where they allow things like light industrial and warehouses within residential and commercial areas. You obviously want to be smart about it, you don't want it to be like Texas where you put a prone to explosion fertilizer factory next to a grammar school and old folks home.
There are still warehouses in False Creek South/Fairview, along Clark dr, chicken factory, etc. No need for more.
@@aygul386 sure there are.
Or Calgary where the HUB Oil plant was across the street from a mobile home park. I saw it BLOW as I came up over the Olympic jump venue returning to town.
Came here to comment exactly this. We need Japan zoning for industrial to allow low traffic, low noise and low pollution industry to be allowed in residential and commercial spaces.
@@Amir-jn5mo I recommend the “Small factories in Japan” episode of Japanology.
Excellent narrative Uytae! One point missed in the Single dwelling neighbourhoods: They're way more expensive for developers to purchase to intensify, whereas industrial lands tends to be cheaper to purchase. It'd be great to get a deep dive into this cost differential, factoring in the cost of remediation on those converted industrial lands.
Oh yeah! A developer could only need to buy one or two properties (especially if a large warehouse or factory) instead of dozens of homes to get the same result.
the Canadian way is "Yes I agree we need to fix issue 1/2/3/4 etc, as long as it doesn't cost me money or affect me". Everyone here in Toronto can agree on much need affordable housing, yet developers are always met with resistance because "not in my backyard".
What is so wrong is single-use zoning. Look at Japan, a country with limited land but still with relatively high manufacturing (read industrial) high-quality economy. Most cities in Japan have mixed-use zoning laws and are still managing to keep their businesses where they should be without compromising the quality of life for residents and economic impacts on businesses and communities. Few more interesting indicators: 1. Relatively low levels of homelessness. 2. Higher efficiency and impact of community service programs. 3. Well-designed public transport which could be used for both domestic (home-related) commutes and business commutes eliminating the need for purpose-built transport solely focus on one type of commuter and hence more profitable. 4. Lower ownership of cars as public commute options are ample and expanding.
Interesting video. I work for an electrical wholesaler in Burnaby and in a few short years our warehouse has been surrounded by high rise towers. I feel like the businesses in the area are vital but in some bizarre twist of irony are going to be crowded out by the very industry they often serve. Ultimately I feel our warehouse will move at some point as property has become far too valuable for anything other than high density real estate. Sadly this will mean a lot of decent paying industrial jobs will be eliminated or relocated, as discussed in this video.
I'd love to see our regulations that really make multi-story industrial hard or impossible to build changed to. In many other countries they've returned to the old days of big multi-story warehouses and industrial buildings. I saw a tour of a factory that makes model trains, quite a big setup, and it was on like the 6th floor of a huge industrial building that was serviced with big freight elevators. Back in the day in north american cities we had much more industry near workers, and much more multi-story industry too.
Great point. There is a shortage of square footage but at the same time nearly all of our warehouses are the same, cheap, tilt-up construction, single story design with massive parking lots surrounding them because they are in the middle of nowhere and we don't run adequate transit to these areas.
This is so true. And who eats the cost of increased industrial rents or companies having to ship in their products or services from farther away? At the end of the day, those costs are passed down to the consumer.
When he showed the shipping to and from Calgary, suddenly everything made way more sense why retailers here are so reluctant to slash prices, and why Vancouver is so expensive.
Looking forward to more productions by Uytae Lee! Love his channel “About Here”!
Keep up the great work Uytae!!!
A city needs a a garage , a place where work happens. We need diverse economies that support many means of living. Don't ignore our industry
Imo the biggest issue we have is how inefficiently we use lots we have, and how restrictive our zoning are for efficiency of said lots.
Single family housing should be fine; most people would love to own their own home without strata or upstairs neighbours, no? The problem is that we build unreasonably large houses for a family of 3 or 4, and have wasteful, pointless set backs and side restrictions. Ideally residential zoning would be more flexible in general, but if we build most of our single family zoned areas with UK style row housing, each block would have twice the houses or more, yet still maintain a local street atmosphere, individual properties without strata, and still have back yards - the yards are narrower, yes, but with terraced/row houses set closer to the street, the back yards are actual quite big usually!
Similar issue for tons of our commercial, (especially malls,) and industrial spaces. A warehouse is important, but so many of them, especially in Burnaby and the tri-cities, waste a massive amount of the lot space with either more parking lot than needed, or worse, just setting everything back from the road for no reason and leaving a ton of unused space. Compare newer Burnaby industrial to older Vancouver or Richmond industrial and you can quickly see how much space is wasted since the 70s. Zero lot planning maximizes space, lessens waste, creates more walkable cities, (even light to medium industrial areas!,) and thus helps establish an actual community space rather than half empty wasteland.
SFH are not the problem; there is not enough family housing and people are not having kids or pushed out. Wages, laundering, and foreign investing is the problem. They started to tackle them but not enough. Condos still sit empty, developers still build luxury investments, and launderers still find loopholes. Once the money's here and they've purchased multiple properties - including numbered corporations - it's too late. But they can't expropriate, so they attack the middle class. Nevermind decades long tax evasion. Meanwhile, all the focus is on how this drives SFH prices, and not on wages remaining stagnant since the 70s, because corporations control the media. Develop main arteries, fine. Warehouses in the burbs, fine. But deal with all the white collar crime creating a dual-economy, or we'll never win. And families need homes, in the city.
Totally agree. Basically the laws for houses are as if you had to park your car no closer than 10 feet away from the car in front and behind you, you'd fit 40% less cars along the street. Same with houses. Get rid of set-backs and you could have more space in the back yard. Let people build up to the property line and most lots could have 2 or 3 row houses on them instead of a single "Vancouver Special". Vancouver home owners as a group seem really dumb honestly. They should want this and should be pissed off that they can't for example re-mortgage at age 50, redevelop their own land into 2 row houses and a laneway house, give themselves the best unit and rent or sell the other units and retire at 55 with a bigger asset than they started with.
@@fallenshallrise Statscan says 50% of new builds are being bought by investors. Supply is a developer's myth. What you're describing is a sardine can hellscape, the antithesis of the North American dream. Stop being plebs. Demand higher wages (which are 10x less than it takes to buy a home, Toronto is only 6x) instead of lower expectations, or move to Tokyo.
Wouldn't be such a big problem if land was utilized more efficiently in the first place. Land Value Tax is the way, and Euclidian zoning has to go.
Not all industrial activity creates pollution anymore, so those uses should be able to go vertical
That commodity moving from Vancouver and back should be enough to tell you how stupid things have gotten.
Lee for mayor! Vancouver needs this person at the helm!
It's amazing how many issues point to single-family housing areas. Land use, environmental impact, housing prices, car dependence, the list goes on. NIMBY-ism is a huge barrier to progress.
I agree, but we should not be further making single-family housing in this urban sprawl way. I would say it's foolish land development and colonial obsessions with suburbia and the American dream instead of NIMBY.
It's cute how you think you can raise families in shoe boxes, and how you won't need to worry about housing if no one's reproducing. 👏🏻
@@lenadahling I definitely agree that compact city apartments are not the place to fit in a family. But coming from I do not live in a city. More units would push down housing prices in the market
@@colinsutherland4709 Developers are driving the narrative. We can have warehouses in Abbotsford, and towers on multi-lane streets, and leave SFH alone. Problem solved. But developers and communists want to develop everything, deregulate everything, and pit the upper and lower middle classes against each other while they stay above the fray. And no one in corporate media's talking about wages.
@@lenadahlingyou can raise a family in a big apartment
This is great! CBC should keep more stories coming about the driving forces in society that affect everyone - how things in the economy actually function. Maybe Vancouverites would consider making different choices to avoid the massive CO2 emissions of shipping to and from Calgary.
man, you've been killing it with your videos lately. big congrats also on the partnership with CBC!
The crisis in Industrial land is a excellent way to attract businesses in the Interior. If the Province does it right, then we might see Kamloop or Prince George become the Biotech capital of Canada.
That is precisely WHY one of the last Federal mandates just before Harper left office was to initiate high speed internet EVERYWHERE, as it's critical for job creation. My inventor friend had to MOVE from Salmon Arm to Kelowna because the AutoCad access he needed with NASA in Chicago was high speed.
definitely. with jobs creation in the interior or the north, there will be development. Those places also have a lot lower cost of living. Employees can save more money in the bank with the lower cost of housing and startups/companies can save money from office space. The tech sector recently had waves of layoffs and with the rise of remote work, office jobs can go to other places. even BC government employees can work remotely inside the province.
Though we need a massive transportation overhaul too. The rail lines struggle to keep Calgary stocked.
BC needs investments to twin-track all mainlines here - Kamloops would be great, but we need the CN and CP mainlands twinned. Bonus points for electrification in the process!
Same with Prince George - twin the tracks. And ensure both rail operators can access there (damn CN BS deal)
Kelowna could had also theoretically housed industrial on their former Tolko lands, jus they kissed that goodbye when they ripped all their tracks up.
Watching these short docs is the only time I put my phone down and truly pay attention. Utyae has a lot to say and it is excellently presented.
There's no reason a warehouse can't be beautiful....they were 100 years ago. But now we readily accept bland for industrial buildings because "that's how they are". It's a choice, and we don't need to be this way.
Fantastic video! Completely nailed the challenges of land constrained markets like Vancouver while appreciating not just the value but the absolute necessity of the industrial real estate industry.
Keep up the great work! Always liked your TH-cam channel.
Very interesting video and agree we need to keep industrial lands. Industry also needs to change where it can produce items. Manufacturing of goods does not always need to be done at the ground level of the building. Many places where older housing exists should be densified first. I was surprised when i drove by one of my old apartment building in Marpole to see it had been taken down and is not a six story rental building. marpole is full of three story small apartment buildings that could be redeveloped and increase the housing stock there very easily.
Now industries are starting to care about the rental shortage. I don't really care too much if rona, walmart, home depot have to sort goods elsewhere. The industrial land really should be focused on services that benefit local residents. As for developing multi unit housing on land, what do we think people are going to be happy with? A big multi-dwelling skyscraper in a residential neighborhood, or in a transitioning industrial area? I do think the single-family units are now old-school and out of date for efficient land use, but expecting that you can take over a neighborhood is also wrong. At the end of the day, if there is nowhere to live, there is nowhere for industry workers to live
This is why I was so annoyed about the opposition to Burnaby GRO. We have to divert organic waste from landfills to reduce emissions and we don't have enough facilities to process it. There was space in an industrial park beside a trash incinerator. But everyone was so annoyed that we were developing some of the park land beside the trash incinerator. Well, if we can't use land in an industrial park are people going to be happier if we build in the middle of people's houses?
These videos he does are phenomenal.
Excellent story and a topic most of us never think about much. Enjoying all your coverage, keep it coming!
Great job exposing this issue in such a watchable way!
Amazing job. Uytae is making such good videos!
I admit I wouldn’t want a sewage plant by my house or apartment, but if someone tried to set up a food processing plant by my house I’d be totally fine with that. Maybe we also need to rezone to allow industrial uses that aren’t especially harmful to be next to housing. To be honest, I’m about as War on Cars as you can get, but having an auto rehab near my apartment wouldn’t bother me actually (I already do have some). Maybe allowing these types of industrial ises to spread would be called for.
You really do not want a food processing facility near you, the smells could be very bad. :)
Great work as usual. Definitely an ongoing challenge in Greater Vancouver with its limited everything
I lived in the brewery district for a year...for anyone thinking about it, DONT. The train is deafening...4 blasts every 4 hours. Not worth it, and absolutely terrible.
Great video! Ontario has provisions to protect their industrial lands (they call them employment lands), for this reason.
It would be interesting to compare the taxes generated between the high density residential uses and industrial lands since the mill rate is typically higher for industrial uses but they may use less municipal services.
Dope to see this dude on CBC
Very good points! Amazing work!
always glad to see fun was had making these
superb as always😃
Huge towers popping up in place of old warehouses isn't evidence that we are doing a good job adding density - it's just more evidence that we've failed in building medium density throughout the majority of our city. Because the minority who have been grandfathered in are given a louder voice than the future majority that could be living in a neighbourhood that is lightly densified by adding duplexes, row houses and corner 4-1 apartment blocks with local cafes, restaurants and grocery stores.
Look at how badly Strathcona has failed. The only units they've added are on the railroad land north of Powell and all they've accomplished in their own neighbourhood is 1 by 1 convert houses that were multiple apartments into a single house and convert buildings with many affordable apartment buildings into a few expensive ones. The only density that remains is historical. New people take over the neighbourhood, change it, then try to "preserve its character" after the fact (which is code for "keep out the poor people").
Fascinating!
Awesome way to tell the story. Thanks for putting that together to educate us!
The only industrial land I am 100% in favour of redeveloping is waterfront industries. Some of these areas are a legacy from when water access was far more important to shipping than it is today. In Toronto we redeveloped large sections of the waterfront and the end result is some of the best urban streets in the city along a beautiful waterfront.
Still unfortunate that the the lakeshore Blvd and gardener expressway takes up a good portion close to it
Yes, it's such beautiful coastline dedicated to some pretty filthy businesses. It could be redeveloped for more to enjoy.
Water is by far still the most efficient method of transport for many industry uses. Like for Vancouver, it’s why Granville Island is home to concrete processing. They can bring all the raw materials by barge vs the magnitudes of truck traffic.
If we can rezone industrial land, why can’t we create more industrial land. Take Burnaby for example, rezoning will densify neighborhoods along the sky train line where is pretty much industrial land. Is that something city planners need to fix as city expanses?
I just discovered your videos Uytae. Great content!!! Keep it up.
very good points, this is something city planners should be taking into account
love the content. Great job Utyae and your team. Lots to consider for the city.
Not many people know about this Walmart recently warehouse just started not too long ago and located in surrey and which is why you see more walmart trailers on the road 😊
They really need missing middle in BC. In Montreal you can own your own house without having ridiculously low density or needing to constantly drive.
The other end of the industrial land crisis is when new industrial land is built on agricultural land. Cheap land away from residential neighborhoods? Well there's this field right here doing nothing (except feeding us). No one will mind if we put a warehouse here. This is happening in the Big Bend area of South Burnaby. There are a few cranberry fields left of a very fertile farm land that's now being crowded out by warehouses and manufacturing businesses. Burnaby also wants to convert a section of the foreshore park wetlands into a waste treatment plant.
Good you mentioned this. We need to keep our food security and not develop farm land.
Marginal farm land should be looked to and not the better farm land.
I think its also worth mentioning that since the late 20th century, most of the Industrial land in
western countries, the has been basically transferred to Asian countries like India, China, etc. So as businesses grow, they usually outsource their manufacturing centers to other countries.
My former roommate and long time friend retired just about the time the Labatt's facility was at it's end. But it was an OLD, OLD facility, like the "Molsons" land in Vancouver. And the land ended up being more valuable than the business. What do you THINK WOULD happen??? This area is also called "Sapperton" one of the oldest areas in BC. And one of the LAST to be seriously developed.
Vancouver is one of the top enclaves where the richest in the world camp their wealth here.
Vancouver is at the top of the list.
And with global warming, wars, famines etc on the rise, Vancouver will only become more and more divided in terms of economic disparities.
Do not be surprised if they start introducing neighbourhood gateways and passports just for intra-municipal travel in the near future.
Utyae. You are a great journalist and are really great in front of the camera. Keep it up!!
Fascinating video about a topic that most people don’t think about. I live in Seattle and one thing I’ve noticed about Vancouver is how constrained it is by its geography. There much less land to build on than Seattle because the mountains are so much closer to the city and there’s the hard limit to the south at the border.
Been following Uytea's videos since his halifax days. Keep these coming!
save the Industrial Land!
Good reporting thank you!
Great video as always!
The b roll editing is so good
Astounding how developers always capture and win the narrative. So... build towers in Shaughnessy so you can build a warehouse in New West... instead of building a warehouse in Abbotsford, so you can build towers at Commerical/Broadway (which is already happening.) The 1% have successfully pit the upper and lower middle classes against each other, and stay well above the fray. Is building unaffordable shoeboxes in single family neighborhoods the "missing middle" housing? Does no one want kids anymore, and if not, why do we need so much more housing? So many soundbite narratives that go unquestioned. So much extremism instead of nuance. Abbotsford is a heck of a lot closer than Calgary. And there are plenty of multi-lane streets on which to build low-rise towers, without infringing into SFH neighborhoods. Where's this sane moderation? Guess it doesn't capture clicks.
Industrial space is important, so we have somewhere to put the stench and the noise that comes with industry.
I see your point and agree. The lost of industrial land is also adding to global warming, as workers and goods must travel to the city. Like food this is a problem if anything disrupts the flow we are going to hurt.
A really great meld of industrial and retail I find is Granville Island. If you've visited you've probably seen the big art installation on the smoke stacks for ocean concrete. It just shows, if done right, there should be no reason that they can't coexist.
Do Canadian cities have large greenbelts? My city has abandoned industrial areas, but forests continue to be bulldozed to build new warehouses on the outskirts.
Vancouver has one of the largest greenbelts anywhere, and extremely close to the city centre, sometimes with high rises across the street from farmland.
Mount Royal in Montreal is a big hilly green belt I guess
GTA is talking about demolishing its greenbelt for more housing space...
Edmonton is home to the largest park greenspace (or whatever they call it) in North America.
A green belt is not the same thing as park land. It's typically land surrounding the developed part of a metro area that can only be used for uses like farming or environmental reserves, to slow down sprawl or to preserve productive farmland. The GTA has one, as does Ottawa. Quebec and BC have agricultural land reserves.
great video! and valid points. Industrial land may not be "flashy", they might even cause land value in nearby neighborhoods to drop, but they are integral to a growing city.
Is there a better way to support this creator then to go through cbc?
Yes, new Uytae! We need one on golf courses! Could have so many new units of housing on a few golf courses!
Great work on the video. You should be a model for other CBC content creators. If Vancouver doesn’t create van affordable solution to individual use they are going to continue to lose out the Alberta and especially the states.
Yeah, remove restrictive zoning on R1! But it's also worth considering making "new cities" instead of constantly investing in Toronto and Vancouver, that way they can focus on what they do best (farming and shipping).
Really interesting to hear this is happening in BC, we are experiencing the same issue in London, UK.
There should be no such thing as exclusionary zoning. Let developers build for the housing markets demand
Loving your videos.
New Westminster use to be the Capital of BC. Until they moved it to Victoria.
Commercial property is in crisis. Too many store space but fewer rentals 😮
This was a very well done look at the issue. The Burquitlam area of Coquitlam is an example of an area that is taking single family lots and increasing density. There is a problem with densification of an area like that however. The low cost rent apartment buildings adjacent to the single family lots are torn down and replaced with high rise condos. Yes there are some low cost rentals in some new builds and some market rental buildings, but developing areas see huge increases in rent costs and market rentals in the same area are now much more unaffordable than they were pre-development, in just a few years. The lack of buildable land in Greater Vancouver requires a region wide more than city focused approach.
It's not that it never happens but it's so rare that a single family home is turned into say a 4 story apartment block with say 10 apartments and massively more common that a 4 story apartment building is torn down and replaced with a condo tower. The way we are obliterating medium density our cities will soon be nothing but super tall towers and single family homes with low income service workers in their basements paying their mortgage for them.
Great video. Every summer I take my fishing boat to the shelter island shipyard. Last yea I heard rumblings that they might be getting redeveloped. If that happens it will be impossible to get my boat out of the water for yearly mandatory inspections. I hear thE same is a
happening for arrow shipyard diwn the river sone of the support companies have already move i ald becaise of rent values. We used to get out propeller repaired innthr shipyard, now its 1hr drive away.You cant move those shipyards inland its impossible. It will be a major crisis for the entire marine Industry.
Great video.
I love this guy
I have become so disillusioned with modern North American land use to the point I don't want politics or public participation any longer in how land use is allocated. Land use and density targets should be set in accordance to service capacity and transportation with minimum density targets set in each area. The public can be brought in to participate and provide feedback on anything that is not as-of-right but anything as-of-right goes straight to the planning desk. More effort should be placed on designing and how a structure works into the context of the site and area and there is where feedback and dialogue should take place. If the density fits squarely within service and transportation capacity there should not be any objection. All of the modern city issues we face could have been seen coming a mile-away but the current system just creates piece-meal solutions while never addressing the core issues at hand. Get politics and public participation and established a transparent but prescribed base-level of land allocation based on sound best practices and data. /rant
Agree. In the future state of a medium density neighbourhood the population would be 50/50 people in single family homes and people in row houses or walk up apartments. In the current state half of those people have no voice because they are being excluded from these neighbourhoods. They have no voice because they are being concentrated into their own hyper dense areas or forced outside of city limits entirely.
really great video
We'll for starters how about lets turn Douglas Island and Barnston Island (In between Pitt Meadows & Surrey) into industrial land its just literally empty. They can be like Annacis Island. Why is no one having that conversation.
honest question: what are the challenges involved in making a new city, like a twin city, with optimized zoning distribution, somewhere in the Fraser valley, like around Chilliwack or Abbotsford or something?
What's the title of the outro song? Shazam can't find it, and you've not added it into the credits! Did a search online for the lyrics and still couldn't get anything, please help.
Great video
Blaming badly needed housing is a distraction. The real problem is much “industrial” land is being used for car dealerships, mini storages, big box retail, film studios and office parks, all these uses can and should be in mixed use developments.
I like that new developments use historical references from the area to define them.
Hey its sapperton! My record store used to be on east columbia street :)
Aaaaah, so the Brewery in Brewery district is a reference to a historical Brewery. Well play New West, well played.
But there is a brewery there it's just in the industrial nook behind the skytrain.
Wonderful reporting!
Awesome series!!! Thanks!
And isn’t the old Molson industrial land (in Vancouver) also slated to be redeveloped into residential/commercial?
Like sure it looks good on paper, but like yeah, industrial lands bring in the bulk of revenue to municipalities. Without that tax base going forward, there will be budget shortfalls and they’ll have to be picked up by homeowners. RS-1 zoning is where density should be taking place.
I really don't understand why governments doesn't use the Japanese zoning system.
It's all mixed use even industrial the only part where you can't build homes is in heavy industrial area's.
You can build in quasi industrial areas. Meaning it will solve all 3 things at once residential, commercial, and industrial. Plus have an area that is just heavy industrial.
And i know people doesn't like that be people ve like "NIMBY!"
Fact is it's not in your backyard is it!? it is in your neighbors backyard that wants it there. Freedom to buy property and do what you want with it with the guidelines the government has set up.
And in-between all of that there could be parks and beautiful walking paths with man made streams.
Think about it you build your home on a quasi industrial land, where it has minimal pollution because most of it is warehouses, car factories, non toxic storage, tech industries etc. Etc.
And decide under your home you want to build a restaurant, corner store, or what ever your business most likely be successful just because you have customers going to work and they need to eat.
Very informative, thanks 🙏