Can we build a NEW mainline steam locomotive in the United States? | Restoration Roundtable
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ม.ค. 2024
- Can a new mainline steam locomotive be built in the United States? The @TheT1Trust and steam railroading specialists at FMW Solutions and throughout the rail industry are answering that question one piece at a time. Join us for a detailed discussion on the steady recreation of a Pennsylvania Railroad T1 steam locomotive from our steam mechanic and engineering experts and learn about the challenges and rewards inherent in revisiting this iconic locomotive design.
For more on our work, click here: www.fmwsolutions.com/newsroom...
To learn more about the T1 Trust, click here: prrt1steamlocomotivetrust.org/
Contribute to the project here: prrt1steamlocomotivetrust.org...
Historic footage compliments of the T1 Trust, Mark I Video, Railroaders Memorial Museum, and Fort Wayne Railroad Historical Society.
Learn about our other Pennsylvania Railroad projects here: • How To Restart a Resto...
From the T1 Trust:
The Pennsylvania Railroad T1 Steam Locomotive Trust is a non-profit organization that believes in thinking differently about preservation. Through hard work, dedicated volunteers, and the financial support of many generous donors from around the globe, the T1 Trust is constructing PRR T1 No. 5550. Slated to become the fifty-third locomotive of its class when complete, 5550 combines stunning art deco design with a unique 4-4-4-4 wheel arrangement.
The production of PRR T1 5550 will fill a large gap in historical locomotive preservation. Perhaps more importantly, this locomotive will inject new life blood into an aging heritage fleet. Most US-built steam locomotives operating today are over 60 years old. Wear and tear are taking their toll. Efforts such as this one, to create a powerful new machine, will become increasingly important if steam excursion service is to be present in another 60 years.
The PRR T1 represents the pinnacle of steam locomotive design in the United States. These locomotives could achieve speeds over 120 mph, and anecdotal reports indicate that speeds of up to 140 mph were attained. 52 class T1 locomotives were produced, 25 at the PRR’s Altoona shops and 27 at the Baldwin Locomotive Works in Philadelphia. Sadly, no single example of this magnificent machine escaped the scrapper’s torch.
#steamlocomotive #pennsylvaniarailroad #prr - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
Can a new mainline steam locomotive be built in the United States in the 21st Century? The T1 Trust and strategic partners at FMW Solutions and throughout the rail industry are answering that question one piece at a time. Join us for a detailed discussion on the steady recreation of a Pennsylvania Railroad T1 steam locomotive from our steam mechanic and engineering experts and learn about the challenges and rewards inherent in revisiting this iconic locomotive design.
Could it be possible to rebuild a New York Central Hudson?
Stay tuned for a brief discussion of this possibility inh the video @@blairterry9435
@@fmwsolutions Ok!
@@blairterry9435I know it can be possible with you starting a campaign to build one from the ground up and not being all-talk about it.
It actually can if the government used the money ta keep the steam train engines updated kept n photocopied the plans the steam engines could n would have been able ta run n pull passenger n freight services n would have put more jobs out there but that's the problem the government don't want ta use the money on fixing up America they rather put a bandage on what needs stitches ta help it heal it's sad that the government is just letting these historic engines that actually helped built America 😢😢😢
I can sympathize with old drawings and how the railroad liked to dimension things... Seems the drafting pen was in one hand, and the bottle in the other. lol!
Loved this roundtable. Excited to see what's next.
Remember that they were doing everything on paper, by hand. It took how many drawings to make a frame, trucks and all the parts and piping that went into an engine. They had one datum point that could be referenced to all related drawings. Using CAD today, it can all be done on one drawing using layers. Those guys did calculations with slide rules. I doubt anyone can use one today. Most people don't even know what they are, much less use one.
@@organbuilder272 True, but just because we used stone wheels eons ago doesn't mean we need to revisit them.
That is fine - Very good idea. Then we do not need to build a stone aged engine. Let's not waste any more money on this T-1 project. It was a failed engine anyway. Let's just scrap all these old relics of the stone age and use the metal for something useful.@@kleetus92
@@kleetus92totally agree
howdy mark!
I randomly clicked on this video and had no idea this kind of project even existed. Amazing. You're really gonna build a modernized T1?! Amazing. Can't wait to see this thing with my own eyes someday.
All of us were very happy to see your comment. For many of us at work on the project for over a decade, it's always a relief when we can introduce it to new people.
i have steadily donated since its inception & i think its worth it , i have shirts patchs mugs & plans for building a 5550 out of legos donate if you can
The tornado project brought a new era of steam restoration, is crazy we went from building a a1 peppercorn, to a massive prr t1 and lner p2. Props to everyone involved in the project and good luck.
A cautionary tale from the UK about how small things can trip you up. I heard this 30 plus years ago, so hopefully the issue has been resolved, but just in case:
The Flying Scotsman had been brought back into service, all the big terrifying things had been sorted, and she was pulling main line trains, but they started getting bearings running hot. (Local Steam Railways did not have this problem as they were only doing short hops between stations, and manually oiling. Main line Express Trains do not stop). Eventually they worked out that the lubrication system was at fault. The original method was a pipe, fed through with a flax wick, connected to an oil reservoir. They had used a modern synthetic wick. So they replaced the wick, but still had problems: Oil. They needed a specific viscosity oil that would match the flax, and drip at the required rate. Luckily, one of the old engine shed workers happened to have a can of the correct grade oil that he had liberated when the the works shut down. From that they were able to get the formulation, only to find that it was no longer made. One of the big Oil Companies stepped in an made a one-off batch for them, and they were back up and running. How they manage all these years on I do not know!
I know that the "Big Boy" still runs in the US, so I am guessing that they must have some solution for that problem, but beware the small things that you just don't think about, to come out and bite you!
Hope you-all succeed.
The fact the PRR T1 Trust are on the verge of pulling off the unthinkable, the answer is yes. With the right people who have the knowledge about what they are doing and also having the adequate funding and industries to contract the work out to; it can be done.
If you want to get a new rebuild started after the T1, the biggest one to do next would be a New York Central J3a Hudson.
That's the logical choice for the next American newbuild steam locomotive.
The Hudson should be first.
@@gamerfan8445 Too late, then. When are you going to start the campaign for building a Hudson? We’re waiting…
@@chooch1764 you know my reply already.
I want the 5344 to be rebuilt as it was the only J1e Hudson to be upgraded to the J3a classification as it was the test bed for all the J3as.
Honestly really refreshing to see all the upgrades that are going into this locomotive. Keep up the good work!
Well it should be possible in the USA, we were to do it over here in the UK, The Tornado was built from scratch based on a modernised existing design and with another large standard guage locomotive to a similar design is in progress. So good luck hope to see your project completed in the not too distant future.
However it important to point out that the British built a locomotive that was successful back in the day, then they made mix preforms’s locomotive.
In the UK at present there are SEVEN new locomotives being built from scratch these include two P1 s 2 Standards and a CLAN class pacific not bad for a small country
@@michaelnaisbitt7926 it mostly likely one p2. The other one is basically a waste of money.
There are couple more Locos being built at this moment.
@@SvenTviking okay name one, in the states, and not a pre 1820s locomotive
I have to say, after watching this video, it made me realize how much of a difference this project is making in rail preservation. What really spoke to me was at @23:44
I’m digging Matt’s collection of Kegs and his CO2 management system. He’s the master of serious gas and steam pressure!
CO2 is plant food but if any initial emissions can be reduced and reused (think combined heat and power) to make it economical, makes sense to conserve fuel.
A great update on the T1 project, I really think these people can pull it off, they are very passionate about what they're doing.
The re-engineering of the frames is a huge effort in itself, the one piece casting was something far more complicated and cutting edge than the plate frames used in the UK till the end of steam.
Actually North British Locomotive had their frames for South African Railways classes 25 and GMAM cast in the US as the customer demanded this and no foundry in the UK could do such large castings.
Well thought in the proces is not only a fabricated frame hold up to the stresses of operation, but with maintainability in mind as well, not all mechanics are short, skinny and flexible, so good accessibility of components is a real concern.
The T1 trust is also lighting up another very important aspect in preservation as a whole, that is pulling the industry in.
In the UK the industry supporting the huge preservation movement is large, some companies almost completely depending on orders from the preservationists.
But also regular metal shops and engineering firms embrace the idea as very suitable for learning purposes, many apprentices learning some aspects of the trade in a very oldskool way, but with incorporation of modern machining and construction tech.
So very good to see that you found some firms seeing manufacturing parts for the T1 as a challenge and not as a nuisance hindering their of the shelf mass production.
The T1 trust is going to be the first preservation/new build group in the US getting a donation from me, with greetings from the Netherlands and success with this awesome project.
Thank you so much for donating to get 5550 put together and running! Can’t thank you enough my friend!
Why is it so much longer than a regular 4-8-4? Annd has any thought ever been given to reheating the exhaust steam?
@@user-ky9sx8ti9y got to fit that second pair of cylinders in somewhere... and the huge firebox takes up a lot of space... Many German locomotives employ a mixer preheater for the feedwater located just in front of the chimney in the top of the smokebox.
The can part isn’t the question. It’s possible. The probability was the issue in question. You made it further than I imagined. May your progress continue.
Thank you guys for bringing steam locomotives back to life and back from Extinction God bless your souls for that fact just do me a huge gigantic favor what does FMW stand for thank you for all you do keep up the great work
Yesterday I stood in front of Mallard at the UK national railway museum and thought I dare anyone to beat that, now I have found your site In some ways I hope you do!
Godspeed to the T1 Trust! 😁😁 Love to see it complete!
Excited to see this huge endeavor being realized!!
Thats amazing that anyone is taking on a project like this, Best of luck with the project. 👍😎👍
Crazy-mad respect for what you guys did with USSC #148 (especially given what you had to work with, both the remains of the locomotive and the lack of drawings), and not surprised you're involved with this one as well. Looking forward to when this one is completed.
This is an awesome project.
It is one big project to design and build a large new steam locomotive and pattern it after a steam locomotive that was made many years ago. This is a unique project because all the other large steam locomotives that are in operating condition are old steam locomotives from the steam era that had extensive restoration work done on them to make them operational.
Certainly can be done, and the pride it brings to all involved to bring one of these spendid giants back to life for all to see operating once more is enormous.
For posterity rather than simply being a cold static exhibit.
I ran across this video and at first thought yiu were going to build a miniature "Live Steamer". I saw the locomotive and was thinking, Nahhhhhh, they're not really going to BUILD one are they? But you ARE! I'm so excited to see the progress you've already made and can't wait to see the real thing! Ive been a railroad buff since I was a kid and am surprised that I never heard of this project before. I wish you all the greatest success!
It’s going to be exciting to see so many folks from around the world that will travel to see, chase, and ride behind 5550!
FMW and T-1 trust is a power house, if I ever win the lottery funding won't be an issue. This project shows the endless possibilities of modern manufacturing technology. Imagine a brand new design, 2-8-8-6 (like an allegheny on crack), 350 psi. Maybe titanium pistons, piston rods, titanium cross heads with needle bearings, poppet valves, full roller bearing running gear, 600 mile service range and 80+ mph top speed. Call her the Claytor class.
Very nice, like ! ! !
This is so far 10 years in the making, I'm hyped to see this engine be completed in the near future or even at least assembled to show how it's looking and will eventually look.
Note: by "assembled to show how it's looking and will eventually look", I mean when the frame is completely made and done, have the drive wheels (when the last 2 are done), future pilot and trailing wheels, and the fully welded boiler (with cab, fire and smoke boxes, and nose prowl) put together to show the resemblance of a steam engine, even if it doesn't have all the tubes, pipes, and streamlining on it.
Looking forward to taking a ride on this train once she’s done ✅
Keep up the great work, would love to see the day you beat the world steam locomotive speed record!!!, you guys are a modern- Raymond Lowry, he would be proud of what your doing!!!
YES! I think we can! The project is almost half way done.
I saw the headline and thought... isn't that being done?
My dad and I both said... it's a good thing we weren't closer, or we would be volunteering every free minute we had...
Now that'll be something. 1361 and 5550 running together.
YES!
That intro animation slaps
It SUCKS that they titled over it!
Doubleheader when?
YES! YES! YES! ABSOLUTELY! Steam Power Forever!✊
While we're helping build the T1, we're also helping restart the restoration on the Pennsylvania K4. Learn more here: th-cam.com/video/S-a4GS7IuNw/w-d-xo.html
This can't be overemphasized. While there aren't any great insights to be gained by the professional finishing of the protracted 1361 saga -- it is one of the great iconic steam designs, and will be highly appreciated when operating.
As long as there is support I believe it is possible. I am glad the Trust stuck to their guns and went with the PRR T1. A lot of people would rather have the Trust build a NYC locomotive like a Hudson or a Niagara. While I think those would be cool I’d still make the argument that a PRR T1 makes better choice.
The T1 is a unique design and a LARGE locomotive. Once the T1 is completed, the Hudson should be relatively simple.
Not to mention the T1's didn't get much of a chance to shine due to the time period where the country was shifting to diesel power and the crews they assigned to operate the T1 had no knowledge on how to handle it, which led to the wheel slip due. @@johnblair8146
@@johnblair8146if the T1 works as it expected.
I am tempted to note that perhaps the 'logical' follow-on project would be a NYC C1a, which shared considerable DNA with the T1s but had more conventional valve gear and very close to Baldwin's recommended GA.
Of course, that locomotive would have used an only trivially modified Niagara boiler, and all the complex work on metallurgy and detail design of the Timken rods is 'in the can', and the frame construction and jigging will be reusable... and while a Niagara may not be the prettiest NYC power, we need to finish 3001 in Elkhart, which has most of the looks of a Hudson while being more practical, before doing a replica -- and I agree with it being 5345 rather than some J3a clone.
@@johnblair8146 its more about expensive than complex :P
My father was an engineer on the PRR and the P&LE, from the 1920s until an accident at Conway Yards in 1948, I took a test for the PRR in 1965, I passed, then less than a week later my Uncle that was chief mate on tankers, got me my merchant marine papers, I went to seamans school and chose to work in the engine room. Of my 18 ships, 15 were WWII-era c2, c3, and T2, Which all were steam turbines, I worked as a fireman/watertender, oiler and the last ship as a cadet engineer, working to get my 3rd engineer's license. My first love was boilers and steam-driven horizontal and vertical piston pumps. If I was 20 years younger I would have enjoyed working on a restoration or even the re-manufacturing of a steam locomotive. 30 some years ago I opened a studio ,and at the present time I restore huge wooden doors, frame work and windows for churches. Good Luck,
I donate to them twice a year. If you care, and if you can afford any amount, please donate--that is what this project needs!!!
Thank you so much for donating! I really appreciate you.
Yes we can
These guys need to have coffee with Cory Anderson...same down to earth ideas it seems.
The comment section drama is hilarious as always.
Keep up the good work FMW and T1 Trust, looking forward to see what comes next :)
It takes a special kind of insanity to argue about steam trains. Really can’t make a video about the project without at least one person arguing that a Dreyfuss Hudson or Niagara would be a better build. Can’t say I’m innocent myself of course, I’ve made my stance fairly clear on the subject. Maybe the real answer is we should all go touch some grass.
@@Stooltoad5017agreed, grass is nice. I should touch it more often.
As long as you don't proceed to smoke it more often...
@@Stooltoad5017 agree, as long as grass touching includes intermittent coal scoop or atomizer touching...
@@fmwsolutions lol I wish it did for me
The challenge isn't the building of this magnificent locomotive...
...the REAL challenge is finding a railroad that will let it operate on their tracks.
Not a Class I, for now... but there are quite a few heritage roads and Class IIIs that wants #PRR5550 to run on their lines.
The Trust has received multiple invites from short lines and tourist railroads to operate 5550 when completed. And don’t give us that “mainline locomotives and short lines don’t go together” BS
Only
Reason big 1 ran the 765 np up by me was because they wanted to shot over the letchworth bridge before tearing it down .otherwise they would of never did it . Almost ran her outta water an got low on coal due to grades . Ya don’t say never .but I’ll be holding my breath waiting for them to run an consess the lines up
For a EXTRA witch they do all the time
.
She's welcome here :)
I've always wanted to ride in a steam locomotive
I mean the changes are enough to be referenced as a T-1c, since the T-1a and T-1b had different valve gears, so it's safe to say cause it's still a PRR T-1 styled locomotive and there's more than enough minor changes to the original design that you can say it's a new sub type. Not enough you could call it a T-2 but more than enough to be a T-1c. Now one thing a do hope you do is covert the tender to a corridor tender and maybe make a corridor water tender so you guys could do nonstop excursions between water stops.
You ask, I answer. Of course we can! However, how long will it take? we still need to get the money. All in all, I know we will get this magnificent beast locomotive on the rails! Good luck to everyone supporting the project! 🤗
Those CAD drawings show how complex the frame is.
I think combining steam with diesel on the mainline to take advantage of both of their strengths would be really interesting
The opening music is intrusive. I would advise against its being so loud....if you must use it at all. Apart from that observation, and it's only a personal opinion, I am with you all the way. I have donated in the past and will again. I sincerely appreciate your service to humanity and to railfans everywhere who want this project to succeed.
Thank you so much for donating!
Bring back ONE class each of a steamer long gone at least! The most special and historic of course!
Good luck
Why not, we've been doing it in the UK for a while, it's just about getting the money to pay for it.
metal on metal friction and wear are a big issue with steam engines.have you looked into new surfact finishes? porsche has a new low friction coating
There are several things to bear in mind here. First is that any hard coating and piston-ring combination has to work both with 'wet' steam and highly superheated steam, with compatible tribology. Some of this applies to the piston rod (and its metallic packing) as well as the piston.
There has been research into some types of coating, including a practical method of forming superlattice hard coatings in locomotive cylinders. To date the cost of implementation outweighs the easily-identified operating and maintenance gains.
There are also experiments in oilless steam-engine construction (for example Spilling, in Germany), some of which might be applicable to large reciprocating-locomotive practice.
An extreme, but thermodynamically worked-up alternative is Russell Brown's asynchronous compound, which uses tailrods to keep the piston several thou from the cylinder wall with only spot condensation between; the blowby is directed to a LP turbine for KERS or auxiliaries.
You know, if this becomes a great success, there’s hope that the Hudson Class Steam Engine can be built
Can't believe it won't be possible. Here in Britain, one or two mainline steam locomotives have been built from original blueprints in recent years and there are several currently in varying stages of construction.
This is great the progress you guys are making, I’m just very doubtful that any mainline railroad allows this engine to run on their rails. If completed I see this engine working short lines or class three railroads, doubtful it will ever run on the main.
Railroad management on class ones change every three years on average. Never say never.
This part of the problem is tricky, and the British experience involves the whole system which has many differences in safety and control from US standards. But part of the process for Tornado was the test run to 100mph, along the East Coast Main Line. The 100mph was over the speed required to run a train on that line without interference with normal trains, and apart from everything else it was safe with the overhead electrification.
As I recall, the British requirement is to match the freight and ordinary passenger traffic for speed, which means the problems of one train passing another are minimised.
Perhaps the question should be who sets the standards for every train on a US railroad and who tests that a locomotive design meets them?
I hope the t1 is successful so we can get some New York central Hudson’s maybe and maybe even some Hiawathas
Just imagine the huge casting to pour a one piece frame that once existed in a huge factory that is no longer here with huge overhead cranes specifically designed to do a job that is no longer done.
I am kind of happy that the prrt 1 is going to be converted to oil burning instead of coal
Yes, lots of money !!!
The S1 Duplex should be next. It all starts with forming an interest group and a trust fund and foundation. Finding the original design plans is also fundamental.
The problem with building a new S1 is that it is just too impractically large to rebuild and still go around tourist railroads. The S1 had 6 wheel leading and trailing trucks to carry its weight. That’s more than most articulateds. That is part of the reason the Trust choose the PRR T1 instead: the PRR T1 was for all intents and purposes an improved S1 that was more compact and didn’t require as much leading and trailing axles.
A question regarding the tender...
You guys bought that 210F75a, you guys will modify the tender right?
If I recall correctly, the production T1's had 180P84's which were very similar in size to the 210F75a's, except the 180's held less water with the tradeoff of holding more coal.
I’m not a part of the Trust, but my understanding is they will at minimum change the tender from coal to oil. I believe they also plan to streamline it.
@@Stooltoad5017 this I know, but I mean to ask is if they will be adjusting the water/fuel space ratio to be correct to the 180P84 design.
I guess we won't know until after they complete the engine.
There is no reason why you cant build any locomotive, you just need determination not to give up, the right people and attitudes.
I love it! Other locomotives can e brought back as well. It may not be a steam locomotive, but how about a U50C? On the subject of the steam locomotive, l wonder what it would take to bring back a program like the ACE 3000 that would develop a modern steam locomotive?
@@NickTheCrossdresser2149 The other 4 class ones would probably be involved also. I wouldn’t mind seeing it happen. A reciprocating steam locomotive could theoretically burn anything in its firebox. I can imagine a modern steamer burning corn oil. What a nice smell!
Unlike a T1, the U50C had operating issues that would be difficult to solve, even in a replica. You'd be far better doing one of the B-B+B-B span-bolster engines using the gas-turbine underframe design. Or for real fun and a T1-Trust-style science-project test... why not a DH643?
@@wizlish the older U50 and the DH643 would be awesome! For the U50C they can make a non operational one.
I'd love to see a BP-20 passenger Shark nose diesel built from scratch.
Generators can be installed on wheels axels ?
I wonder if theyll ecer aancle steam tlocomotive? Seems like it could be shielded enough and it would be really efficient
i want that shirt !!!
Short answer is yes. We built them in the past so with the right amount of money you can build a new steam locomotive.
The only issue I see is logistical and regulatory. The UK Mainline successfully incorporated Heritage Steam into mainline operations and the two mostly co-exist happily. I can foresee the FRA and private owners not wanting to play ball with steam on America's dated rail network.
Looking forward to this and the A1 Trust's P2!!
Watching with great curiosity, and hoping I will still be alive to see the finished product run. I am curious what interactions / discussions are planned with the FRA, VOLPE Center, or other organizations regarding the running dynamics and the process which might be required for qualifying the locomotive for operation when the time comes.
Some of the discussions for using the Fast Loop are already concluded, with the understanding that instrumented wheelsets will be required and that the high-pressure steam boiler is not banned from the facility if correctly built and maintained to code.
More detailed discussions would be made before the locomotive goes to Pueblo for any of the rounds of testing.
Would the IWS be pilot, driving, trailing truck, or a combination? Having done a couple programs at the test center, I find this part the most interesting aspect!@@wizlish
The IWS requirements for a reciprocating steam locomotive are different from those for, say, a locomotive with driving bogies and frame-mounted motors.
The main driver on the forward engine will be instrumented for sure, and there are nearly as many reasons to implement the lead driver pair.
I would also want at least one IWS in the lead truck, probably the forward one on a pin-guided truck.
The tender mass will help stabilize guiding over the trailing truck, so it remains to be seen whether one or two IWS improve safety over multi axis accelerometers on the truck frames.
I expect that the actual IWS design and provision will be done as part of a college-engineering competition, and not an overpaid consultancy, with a little careful 'seeding' of the challenge with preferred methodology...
Sounds logical, and definitely very different from the past programs I have done at TTC, and will be doing at TTC in the future. Obviously no one is buying new steam locomotives or anything even close to the wheel arrangement on the T1, so the qualification requirements will be as unique as the over all locomotive itself.@@wizlish
I really liked it a lot and it's really cool project. Not to mention I'd love to see it in operation. But how is it economically viable? Running excursions maybe?
It will be running excursions on regional and short lines across the eastern U.S.
Man, Wolf must have dry skin too. I am really respect that. Aveeno is my go to lotion too! I find the citrus scents a bit too harsh though.
Wolf lives in a high altitude with a dry climate. We prefer lemon zest in our machine shop.
Sounds like the American Coal Enterprises' proposed ACE 3000 steam turbine of the mid-1980s. It never got off the drawing board.
ACE3000 was a 4-cylinder compound reciprocating (piston) locomotive, not a steam turbine. (It did use a turbine for the induced draft, but not for power...)
Read the patent description for a very detailed discussion of the design and its details (although Porta's sketch of the 'frame' in unintentionally hilarious if you understand what would have been needed).
Can it? Yes. Will it? I hope so.
I love this. Just ran across this channel. Now fire it with propane and you will have a machine that will be low emission and yet have the steam advantages as well. It could be put into commercial use even. Propane is cheap by comparison.
Thank you. There are several grades of oil (even waste cooking oil and vegetable oil) that are also in use in steam locomotives, including another that we assist with in Florida that burns oil collected from restaurants for fuel.
Why not a thorium nuclear salt reactor? You'll be able to out compete fossil fuels with that ;)
I'm curious to know how much of the cost of the project is devoted/required for government regulation compliance?
short answer is, yes we can do it but will take time to do it
Does it have secondary air ducts ?
Hope someday in the future someone will do the same for a CNJ G-3 blue comet. there are only a 5 comet coaches still in existence and 0 locomotives.
I wonder if the improved T1 will be competitive with modern Diesels, or close in terms of economy?
If you don't know it can't be done, there's nothing to stop you.
They of course can do it! The big issue is matnence that was why they were displaced in the first place if we can reduce the matnence cost then maybe there is a chance ( steam has been shown to be stronger and get up to speed faster than modern locomotives)
Against 1-2 maybe 3 It could, but there’s no way in hell there’s gonna be a steam renaissance. There’s no way it can compete against every diesel. Even if it could railroads will probably switch to electric, or hydrogen. There’s no doubt in my mind that this thing would whoop the Niagaras though
@@backonpro5679 Class T1
Cylinders 18 3/4 X 26
Steam pressure 300 LB
Driver's 80"
Tractive effort 64,650 Lb
Niagara's
Cylinders- 25 1/2 X 32"
Steam pressure 290 LB
Driver's 79"
Tractive effort 61,570 LB
( Source: American Locomotives a picturial record of steam power
Edwin P Alexander )
Not as whooped as you may believe but yes a good sizable advantage, but please know I would love to see a project spring up to bring the niagara's back too 🙂
(Sorry It took so long to respond) 🚂
I'm just curious but will y'all have safety plugs that can melt if the water got too low?
I know some locomotives in Mainland Europe have that safety feature and some even had safety plugs that melted which drained water from the boiler to put the fire out if water got to low.
Drop plugs are mandatory on American steam locomotives, but on modern road power there have to be a great many of them -- many more than the law required -- to be able to relieve peak boiler pressure under any typical low-water condition that would drop the plugs. (You can actually see this in a couple of Nathan advertisements that show the actual number in small illustrations, but don't make an explicit note that so many would be essential...).
The 'catch' of course, which escapes the armchair railfans until they are shown the situation, is that there is a consequence of the 'proper' number and action of those plugs: they open an area at least comparable to all pop safeties together to what is essentially saturation pressure... inside the enclosed firebox, full of combustion gas, probably located to vent into the volume toward the front of the crownsheet. Google LMS Fury to see the likely result if the plugs mitigate what would otherwise be a crownsheet failure...
Did you guys consult with the Union Pacific Steam Shop?
A1 trust also P2, BR P6, LBSCR Atlantic and other new builds. Err, not in Europe, in England which is no longer a member of the EU.
I mean, in the UK they already built a couple engines and they are actually currently working on doing a Mikado! (the P2) which is still a much smaller engine, but it shows how these projects are more then just fantasies!
Matter of fact, they are working on two versions of the P2!
What type of fuel oil besides diesel possibly Hemp oil which would be cleaner
As others have said the UK have managed to build more than one new build the Princess Of Wales is being built and will share wheels and other parts with Tornado. The only thing is not getting Governments involved they are the problem. In Britain all our steam locos only run on coal and guess what the Government are closing our last coal mine this year and trying to stop imports!
As for finishing the job of the new build. I travelled to Cumberland from UK to Cumberland and traveled behind 1309 and that is almost a complete rebuild! So it can be done with a population of I think over 230 million people
So far i heard the US lacks a place like RAW Meiningen (Germany), for that reason i will say: yes you can do it but it will be much more expensive.
They should look a selling there engineering drawings to raise funds because I’m shore the scale railroad guys might be interested if the want to build a 5 inch or 7 1/4 inch version if they could scale it down in solid works and tests the scaling works
In 1921, William Alfred Webb from Ohio was appointed Railway Commissioner here in South Australia. During what was known as The Webb Era, many large locos took to the lines. This era led to the 520 Class (1943), similar to the T1 (1942) but with 4-8-4 wheel arrangement instead of the 4-4-4-4 of the T1. It will be wonderful to see this original variant up and running once more. th-cam.com/video/xRKyUm5qdug/w-d-xo.html
More fast than Mallard
I came across this project when I went down a Wikipedia rabbit hole. I feel very enthusiastic about the T1 trust. How could I donate to this project?
I wish you guys a lot of luck! With modern technology and electronics, computers etc I'm sure a steam locomotive can be made much more efficient , but at what operating costs? There is virtually no coal and water infrastructure around anywhere at this point in this country. I would think Steam locomotives would still require high levels of operator maintenance unless you are designing a steam turbine based system and even then op and main. costs are high. Another issue would be facing the GREEN WEENIES" and tree huggers. They are trying to kill off everything coal, gas and oil in favor of "ALL EV " systems. But Diesel electric is hard to beat with modern tech too. They started to try this in the 1980's with the A3000 project but it failed due to lack of finances I think. but this was in the 80's too, so modern tech was not as sophisticated as today. Great luck to you!
They are building new mainline steam locomotives in the U.K. If they can do it shouldn’t be a problem for the US.
I like to know if anybody does know do you know if there was any of the original PRR T1s that was converted to burn oil in the 40s and 50s
With today’s technology you could build a stronger lighter frame especially if it’s forged. You have to have enough t weight for traction. Steel wheels on steel rails you need a certain coefficient of friction. But we still have to problem of water. The higher pressure boiler you go, you need better water for your boiler tubes. Steam is dangerous. My experience is 600 and 900 psi marine boilers and steam turbine. Boiler feed water is tested two times a day and chemicals added for dissolved oxygen and dissolved solids. You need good distilled water, more water and more water. Making water costs money.
This is a modern steam locomotive. Make sure it has PTC so you can run it on the average road.
There are people who believe in restoration of trains , trucks , and cars . Everyone else thinks they’re crazy . It just means they have no sense of history and industrial beauty . Restorers do the almost impossible and they make the world better .
For close to 40 yrs. I've hoped to see the ACE 3000 project move forward. Does anybody have any insight into the future of those engineering ideas? Or was Ross Rowland's work all for naught?
The real issue with the ACE3000 was that it was colossally over complicated for only 3000hp equivalent, its interoperability with contemporary diesel-electrics not properly considered, and the very likely problems with condensing inadequacy even in the East made it unlikely to run in typical road service. You can get a very good idea of what was involved technologically by reading the patent description.
The 'rightsized' version of a modern steam locomotive with two units has to be at least 8800hp; the first problem being that even Holcroft-Anderson requires more heat-exchange volume than would fit on a locomotive. For more unintentional humor, look up the Foster-Wheeler and Combustion Engineering work in the early '80s.
The final nail in the coffin for any conventional external-combustion power is the current push straight to zero-carbon instead of zero-net-carbon. If you source fuel from fully renewable sources, using only renewably-sourced energy to produce and refine it, you might be able to justify something like the proposed Project 130's torrefied fuel (this is something FMW Solutions is highly qualified to discuss). But there is no effective way to sequester CO2 emissions from an 8000hp road locomotive that operates with comparable cost and overhead requirements to modern AC diesel-electrics.
Cast frames would be almost
impossible to build now, we have lost so much knowledge from mold making to the actual casting, a constructed
steel frame might be stronger in the long run, cast frames eventually get stress cracks just like the GG1 had!! This will be seriously cool if you guys pull this off, if I remember correctly no NYC Mohawks were saved from the scrappers
torch so that would also be a cool engine to bring back too!!! My bad it was Niagaras and Hudsons that were scrapped!!
I have some good news for you if you think that -- google 3001 Elkhart.
@@wizlish Cool, that's in downtown
Elkhart, sweet!!
@@conrailfan6277there’s also 2933
Will it be in
PRR Brunswick green?
Or?
PRR Tuscan red?
PRR aficionados call it DGLE. Dark green locomotive enamel.
There was at one point an example on the Trust site of 5550 painted red... or more precisely, Starsky and Hutch style red and white with a swoosh and Coca-Cola logo. Ask the Fort Wayne people about the power and recognition that a Coke tie-in might provide...
Coal steam locomotive is interesting future and maybe there is place where it possible to donate this idea some small money but ir there will be a lot of donations ? then that idea will go forward pretty fast.......!?