I would imagine it would make an industrial powder mill a lot safer in dry weather when it was easy to build up a static charge by operation of the machinery. It was also an important process for blasting powder, which was made with the cheaper sodium nitrate (Chile saltpeter), as the graphite coating greatly slows the absorption of moisture from the atmosphere by the highly hydroscopic sodium nitrate, extending the shelf life.
You're furthering humanity's knowledge of pyrotechnics with your highly specialized research. In the year 2525 black powder will still be a thing among enthusiasts, even with Cottonelle long gone :D I hope you'll stay at this for a long time.
Nope, it didn't suck, I will once again thank you for educating us on the subject. You obviously have the edge on me at least so I will bow to your knowledge and experience.
I really appreciate your videos. I don't think there is one I haven't watched. With your TH-cam guidance, I have probably made over a hundred lbs of this stuff to fire at our Civil War reenactments to make noise in our cannons, rifles, and pistols. It's saved us lots of money. We recently joined the North-South Skirmish Association to do competition shooting, so now I am in the process of making the best and most consistent powder I can. Thank you for sharing your excellent experience.
I learn something every time I watch one of your videos. I have noticed the glazed appearance of the factory black powder I have bought but I never knew how that was achieved.
Can’t thank you guys enough Jake, for all the extensive work and detail in your videos. It’s really exciting to be able to use my own powder in my muzzle loader. Deer season is coming up quick in Pa! Looking forward to putting my powder to use! It’s about the same as Goex, even cleaner. And cheaper! Time will tell if I buy a 20ton press or not, but for my first few tries, I’m excited!! Thanks, till you’re better paid! 😊
Really interesting video for flow and density dynamics of powders👍 brought back memories of being in university 😀 Black P0wder Story I used to live in Nunavut, Canadian Eastern Arctic and it was a hunting and fishing paradise 😊 Some stories I heard from some older Inuit hunters about their elders who still used antique propellant. The kit was basic and the "possible bag" was a big thing so occasionally things would get mixed up a bit and normally that wasn't an issue as the propellant goes everywhere 😉 however, it would apparently get downright exciting when the old boy would decide that he'd like a new pipe full of tobacco 😶🌫️ and it would light up with quite a bit more vigorously 😂🤣😅 Love the channel, I have a pair of 1851 colt navy revolvers and with the ear defenders on they're my favorite "foom-ers". So different from bullseye 🎯
Man Jake, great video. For those of us that are just thinking about possibly one day making our on BP, this video here answers so many questions. When I first started just looking at loading BP Cartridges, I would see guys on certain BP Forums say you never weighed your charges. You always go by volume, and that would always confuse me until I bought my first few jugs of commercial BP and I’d use my volume scale and then I’d pour it out onto my scale it 99.5% of the time, the weight would be at the same value as the volume. So since then I’ll weight out my charge along with also using my volume scale. So now I know I still have a ways to go before attempting to make my own stuff. But I definitely enjoyed this video. Thank You for being so specific with your methods. 👍👍
I dont even shoot guns..lol..just build hobby sky shots and random fireworks..where bp is always used. The interweb is full of advice and how to..but after a while of watching you..its opened my eyes and learned me a few things that work better..lol Love you guys..keep it up🎉🎉🎉🎉
I always tap my measure three times. This is done no matter the power. In my GRRW rifle from a rest it will keep three shots at an inch at 100 yards. This is a good video. Thank you.
Again A perfect explonation of making the perfect Black Powder. And it dident sucks love your lessons. Keep your eyes on the pad ,your butt low. And your powder dry.
If you ever get raided by the Automotive Transmission Fluid, they are going to be so confused by the dozens of tupperware containers labeled "cottonelle" "cornstalks" "portobello mushroom" "alfalfa hay" "cat hair".
Jake your epic, you really explained the reason for pucking and glazing your powder well. I have learned something every time I have viewed your channel. You are the king of homemade black powder propellent. I personally wouldn't give many people that title, who do anything here on TH-cam. So, for what it's worth, that's how I feel about your techniques and abilities to explain how you came to your conclusions. Take care!
Excellent discussion and a lot of good questions. Glazing seems to increase the real or apparent powder density. I find glazing can decrease MV a little but minimal effect on fouling. To save time, I glaze all the sortings at once: pucks are ground until everything will pass through the 1F screen, sift off the dust, then batch glaze all of it. After glazing, I sift off the dust again (minimal) and then sort into 1,2, and 3Fg.
Nope, didn’t suck at all, I don’t even make my own BP yet found this informative! And interesting! Seems you go thru a lot to make these different powders for us. Thanks
You neatly explain why you should calibrate your volumetric measure, and why serious competition shooters use scales to weigh out each charge before hand.
Did NOT suck! Ok, this makes a hell of a lot more sense to me. I made my 1st batch of BP using Walnut and the results were very poor (velocity wise). I used the screen method and didn't glaze the powder. I poured 50grns from my flask without even thinking about grain loss. I'm going to bump it up now. Thanks for all the great info for us greenhorns. God Bless
Jake, thank you so very much for sharing all of your hard earned research. You have helped me understand my favorite hobby more than I ever have. I know you have a regular job and all of the usual responsibilities, but still find time to make some in-depth videos. Thanks again! I hereby dub thee "The Prince of Powder"😊
I read that Swiss glazes at a very slow rpm, 20-30/min. My mill goes much faster which I thought would be a problem. But I saw your setup at the end and guess glazing at a higher rpm isn't a problem.
Thanks Jake. Master Class in Black Powder Production. You should get accreditation and sell diplomas. 😁 Really sincerely appreciate your videos and all the efforts put into this.
This video sure helped with a lot of my questions!!! Wondering if you ever thought about using coal as carbon source? Not sure if one would just grind it up as is or try to coke it??? Thoughts?
Coal won't work. Charcoal still has the cell structure of wood so it is sort of like styrofoam under a microscope, this is very important to make a fast burning powder. Also charcoal still has a small amount of wood tar and other substances in it, this is thought to be important too and is why charcoal that is cooked too long won't make as good a powder. The difference in cell structure of different kinds of wood is supposed to be why charcoal from some kinds of wood are better than others. Usually the lighter the wood the better.
Great work! Seeing this leads me to an interesting question; if you compare equal weights of screened, compressed but unglazed and compressed and glazed, what is the difference in performance?
I have done some of these tests with everything equal except one load was glazed (same batch of bp). Your mileage may vary but I found glazing tends to slightly reduce the MV and no significant change in fouling.
@@robertstump4740 That would make sense, since the grains of unglazed powder, with more 'nooks and crannies', should ignite more readily and give at least a slightly faster overall burn. This might have a more pronounced effect in a pistol or eprouvette than in a rifle.
i want to help you. in your pyrolizer braze pipe to lid. then braze a copper pipe to the outlet and then attach- then run the 3 feet of the copper to a coiled 5 coils 6 inches in diameter place in the bucket of water (to a heat removed). like in a 5-gallon bucket of water. . cook the charcoal and let the copper pipe bubble under water until it wants to stop -- no air gets in the charcoal that's important.!!. then check the lbs. with a gauge to 1/2 lb to 3/4 lb. and your charcoal is ready to bag up. tobacco stalks are the most powerful charcoal.
Thanks Jake! you are teaching me how to make quality black powder, I would like to know if there is a particular grain Mill that you would recommend and what type of material is should be made out of.
I would be really interested if you threw a black powder substitute into the ball mill for a few hours, if it would perform any better. Maybe pyrodex or bh209. I know it’s stupid and nobody would ever do that but it’d be interesting
Awesome knowledge!! How do you get rid of the dust after glazing? Also, do you put a bit of graphite in it, maybe the shine come from the graphite in the commercial powder?
Jake, why do you only compress up to 1.75g/cc? I've been able to compress up to 2g/cc. But it doesn't matter to me, since I don't carry metal cartridges.
I don’t only compress my powder to 1.75g/cm3 I only use that for powder that I compare to commercial brands. I use 1.55 for rifle-muskets and smooth bores.
If you dont glaze it there is more air in the volume guage it's like putting a bunch of 2x4s at different angles in a room the filling the room with balls witch one has less air
I have just one comment and I have been asked this question on this a couple times since I started this endeavor and it is what does the glazed compress powder weigh per cubic centimeter, and how is the powder measure calculated. So carefully measured my powder measure and found it to be 11 mm inside diameter set it to 50 grains and measure down to the links to where the plunger at did the math and come up with the metric cubic centimeters and there as I can figure properly compressed powder, three of at least compressed to 1.75 g/cm³ actually weighs 15.7 grains per cubic centimeter or just a hair over 1 g. Of course, that means nothing as long as you were measuring as you described in your video here and adjusting in that manner, but for those who are asking, that is what I have come up with
@@PwntifexMaximus I have some screened powder that I use in an 1851 .44, due to it's low density I use the loading lever to compress as much powder as I can get in the cylinder and still get a ball in it level with the end - it works really well, compressed like that it averages about 1000 fps on my chronometer. I fill the chamber, compress it, fill the chamber again and compress it, then top it off with the ball. Just going by volume alone and adding 30 gr it is worse than anemic. The powder is quite fluffy.
Read somewhere in the past the navies would use barley or rye straw for gunpowder as it would resist humidity better id guess that graphite and polishing them would also help reduce the amount of moisture it would pull out the air
Thanks you just solved a big question i had. In my first propellent attempt I was between Goex and Swiss. I have both on hand. My 2F was much closer to Swiss and my 3 F was just a little better than Goex. I glazed my 2F but not my 3F. Question answered! Thanks Jake.
Yes. Swiss actually hangs slightly in my flintlicks while my lightly glazed and unglazed doesn't hang. The nitrate shell surrounding the grains of Swiss desensitizes the grain to flame just a little and yes it effects velocity just a hair.
I am a new follower of yours. I have seen where you have used cottonwood, fence post, and cottonelle to make your char coal. Have you tried hickory or white oak? They are among the highest BTU producing hardwoods, I wonder how their char coal impacts your performance.
What rpm do you mill or glaze at? Does it matter? I tried to go back thru some of your vids and Im sure youve said, I just couldnt find it... So many questions mostly due to Im new to BP and wanting to learn, safely would be pretty cool too..
So does glazing require a re-screening to remove the knocked off particles that were the roughness of the powder or do the particles somehow reattach at a more convenient location to fill in the roughness like some pyrotechnic Bondo?
I was just about to ask you why my powder was less dense after grinding. But while I’m here, do you notice any difference in performance between glazed and unglazed (same charge weight), in a muzzle loader? I imagine cartridges would be a different beast.
I have seen several comments in the past alluding to a more primitive form of powder making, aka a SHTF scenario. If you run out of things to do (ha!), an interesting project might be to see how good of a powder you can make without electricity.
All the processes can be done without electricity. They'll just take longer and/or will just require a lot more work. I really wonder what the quality/power of black powder was before there was electricity. It's been around for so long, I'm sure they had some kinds of methods to make it better quality than the crappy screened black powder we have today (the stuff people don't compress, but just run through a screen). I tried that several times before in revolvers and it just wasn't powerful enough. I could only ever get like 20 grains in the chamber and it just didn't give me a velocity that was even remotely acceptable.
@@deucedeuce1572 Wind power has run mills for centuries as well as water. Many mills were placed along water courses for power. After that was steam power. The quest is how could a DIY bp maker power his mill using materials readily available.
swiss probably glazes it like this because of logistics, gives a more consistent pour in to containers, weght differens is probably quite important for a commertial product.
Jake, a buddy and your's truly have been thinking about trying just compressing and then screening the powder down before letting it dry (grinding it is a pain in the ass!!) have you tried that? but on measuring, i did what Dave Canterbury did got my charge figured out and cut a piece of copper tubing smashed one end flat for a tang and cut it off even with the powder level and made a fixed powder measure, i made 2 actually one for actual black (with a B stamped in the tang) and one for subs(stamped with an S)!!
i learned a lot from your videos, and i improve on your ideas. i want to let you in on my inventions on black powder. on your priolisos cooker put a 1/2 to 10 lbs. pressures gauge with a pressure release vale. when you only see 1/2 to 3/4 lbs. on the. pressure on the gauge your charcoal is done. but you have to put a cooler before the gauge to keep it from overheating. tobacco stalks is the best. These stalks are lighter than balsa wood .
Thanks guys, I think polishing is almost a secondary compression phase where it knocks off the sharp edges then re-incorporates them under it's own weight. I always have less "shake" powder after polishing than before.
Really? I always thought there's be more. Then again, I thought that glazing wouldn't even be possible, because it would get crumbled into a fine powder. That's probably because I had a lot of (bad) experience with regular uncompressed screened powder. It was hard to get that to even remain granules at all.
@@deucedeuce1572 I thought so at first too, turns out that it doesn't collapse under it's own weight, In my head I imagine them tumbling around like a snowball rolling down hill, smoothing out and gathering material as it goes. This is my imagination, I don't know for sure why, just that it's the results I get.
random question, where do you find your sorting screens? i see on amazon some "20 mesh, 1 mm stainless steel mesh". .but im of the understanding that 20 mesh is 0.8 mms (fff powder) while 1 mm is more like 18 mesh (ff powder) so.. thats not super helpful. the other options im seeing are massive rolls that are like 27 dollars each, which is far more than id want to spend for far more material than id need. thank you!
Test idea for future: does pressing time matters? I once read old papers about 1860 BP factory from Poland and it says the pressed powder for couple of hours. And I’m thinking is that a thing?
Done it both ways and cannot see any significant difference. I'm only getting about 1.62-1.65g/cc. Think the puck die is too tall, going to try a die that gives a shorter, broader puck
I seem to recall from the book about powder production at Waltham Abbey in the 1880s they did not use the dwell time; once the volume they wanted was reached, they cut the pressure.
I figured that out by accident, once I was confused why my 1.75cc BP isn’t equal by weight with brass scale, but one batch I made was glazed about 18 hours (I forgot about it) and it was perfect. And i suggest not to add graphite - it slows BP quite a lot.
When I first got into reloading (smokeless)y dad told me "for the love of God don't trust those Lee dippers. They're great spoons but your powder will always be changing weight". I've weighed every charge I've put in a casing and yah sometimes Thursday powder weighs a little different than Friday powder
When I buy any reloaded ammo, I always weigh each and every bullet... because if any of them have a double charge, they'll definitely show up on the scale at a higher weight. I've never found one to be heavy... but I've also never had any blow up... so I've been lucky so far. I had two that were about 2 grains light, but on both of them I could see a defect in the HP part of the bullet where a small piece of lead was missing. It only takes a minute and I'm really surprised other people don't do the same, especially with so many guns blowing up from improperly reloaded ammo. Even if I reloaded my own ammo, I would still weigh each and every round at the end to be sure.
They will be asking for your barometric pressure on the day and details about your grandparents voting choice next , you called there bluff and I wonder what they will be asking next ..... keep up the good work 👍
I'm not sure if you have the experience to even be commenting on such things. You probably don't even know your grandparents voting choices or the barometric pressure in Austin TX on an average October day at twilight.
yeah, as long as it's not so far off that it won't fit in your chamber anymore. I've tried some screened black powder before that was so light and fluffy that I couldn't even get 15 grains to fit in the chamber, let alone the 50 grains it was supposed to hold. It was so bad I don't know how people ever got by without compressing their powder. I'm sure it's fine in rifles... but in a lot of revolvers, it's just not dense/powerful enough.
Interesting. I'm thinking density and ignition. What does compressing the powder do, other than make it more dense. Graded powder verses compressed powder. Yes, graded powder will require more by volume. But assuming this is the same powder, both should perform somewhat equally. I am thinking in nano seconds; pressure curves over time. Speed of ignition. I'm thinking a lesser dense powder would react quicker. Just a thought.
Have you ever though about tasting you powder to study if glazed or unglazed left a foul after taste? I mean could you add a teaspoon to your morning coffee for a little KICK in the morning? Keep up the good work
Hi, I have heard you mention that you use a 20 ton shop press for compressing? Do you know what the lowest tonnage press would be that could be used to compress to 1.75?
I'm gonna take a wild guess that commercial powders are glazed to a higher finish to minimize being involuntarily glazed in the can during transport and storage. Who wants to open a can of expensive sporting powder and find dust in the bottom? It might even be an OSHA-type consideration, not danger of burns but of breathing the fine dust. What do you think?
Out of curiosity, I was doing some burn tests on paper to see if the powder glazed in the rubber jar was dirtier than powder glazed in an HDPE plastic jar. I weighed the paper after burning 38.08 - 38.21 grains of 3F and I found the rubber jar glazed powder left about 1.5% more junk behind. I'm wondering if there actually is any rubber particles getting picked up or if maybe I'm not a very good backyard weekend scientist
@everythingblackpowder can you do a video regarding how powder is measured? Recently got into a debate with someone over the “smokeless is measured by weight, black powder is measured by volume” line. Aren’t both measured technically by weight? Like don’t volumetric measures correspond to a weight of powder filling that particular volume?
Question is just how much dextrin are adding to get a hard durable pellet of powder .or are just pressing it than graining.great show it appreciated thank you.
Wait... maybe I'm really missing a concept here: if the powder is milled for 24 or 48 hours, shouldn't that accomplish the "smoothing" of granules that the glazing operation does? Apparently not - but I don't understand why.
Great video. Would there be a velocity or cleanliness gain with Schuetzen or GOEX powder if they were glazed for a couple of hours by the consumer? Or is there nothing that can be done to improve the stuff? Thank you for the fine content. It is amazing to see how much there is to learn about making powder and various load combinations. Thanks for the enlightenment.
@@Everythingblackpowder Thank you for the bad news. The upside is that I am going to become really good at cleaning my rifles, as I have just over 4lbs of Schuetzen to get through. Got my first wood duck with the smoothbore this fall, so at least the stuff is sufficient to harvest game. Thanks again for the "bitching" content. My wife and I are looking forward to watching your channel as it evolves and weaves it way through the black powder and reloading culture. Good luck.
Damn, I never thought for a second that black powder could be loaded into a giant container without breaking down into a powder, let alone then turned in that container with all the weight of the other powder. Anytime I've ever made powder, the granules have just never been that dense or that hard.
Since you are milling for days on end, has anyone considered using free renewable energy to power their mill? It would be so cool to have a mill powered by a stream or a windmill. Solar panels and a battery is a bit too modern, but OK
Mills have been run with renewable resources for centuries. The energy a modern mill uses these days (of this size) use very little energy. At the price of about $0.09/kwh (average price and our price here in NY), they probably only cost a couple cents to run for a couple days. Even if they used 100 watts of power, they would only cost about 1 cent per hour or about 22 cents per day. I doubt they use that much power though.
You should compare screened BP to the corned BP both weighed to the same amount, not volume, and see which performs better. People making BP for guns seem to think screened BP is weaker than corned BP because they measure it by volume, but I bet if you actually use the same amount by weight, the screened BP would be faster because it's rougher, and much less dense (much more surface area), allowing for the fire to burn through it quicker. People say fireworks BP is screened because it doesn't need to be as powerful as it does for guns, but really it's just because in fireworks, volume doesn't really matter. In fireworking, charges are weighed, not measured by volume, space is rarely an issue in fireworks, so it makes more sense to go with the higher volume, but more rapidly burning BP. Of course, I understand corned BP would still be the way to go for muzzle loading regardless, since you can carry more in a smaller container, among many other things, and it's just the traditional way of doing it, which is sort of what it's all about, right? Maybe I'm totally wrong, and corned BP of the same weight is still faster, but that's the general thinking in the fireworks community so I'd really like to see it tested.
Just from looks, and I know that doesn't mean much, it would seem like unglazed powder would burn better. Have you tested that? Does it make any difference?
The last time we tested it, there was no noticeable difference at all between the glazed and unglazed powder. However, that might be because we don’t glaze the hell out of our powders like Swiss does.
![[25 shooter] This worker earns money by making fireworks](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/P9NCt2GDZds/mqdefault.jpg)
Come for the science, stay for the knowledge, and keep coming back for the humor
He was always my favorite character in Trailer Park Boys.
Have you ever figured out what the benefits of tumbling with graphite was? Does that help it pour better, maybe reduces static, or what?
Pours better, reduces static but also reduces performance. For the hobbyist like myself graphite is little more than a contaminant
I would imagine it would make an industrial powder mill a lot safer in dry weather when it was easy to build up a static charge by operation of the machinery. It was also an important process for blasting powder, which was made with the cheaper sodium nitrate (Chile saltpeter), as the graphite coating greatly slows the absorption of moisture from the atmosphere by the highly hydroscopic sodium nitrate, extending the shelf life.
You're furthering humanity's knowledge of pyrotechnics with your highly specialized research. In the year 2525 black powder will still be a thing among enthusiasts, even with Cottonelle long gone :D I hope you'll stay at this for a long time.
Thank you
If man can survive
@@bensmith4563 Some of us can. The ones who can make fast powder are welcome everywhere
"I Have Faith!" in the future.
If man ignores the source of life, how can a man survive.
Your videos never suck Jake. You put out some of the best videos on the net.
Nope, it didn't suck, I will once again thank you for educating us on the subject. You obviously have the edge on me at least so I will bow to your knowledge and experience.
Me TOOOOOO!
I really appreciate your videos. I don't think there is one I haven't watched. With your TH-cam guidance, I have probably made over a hundred lbs of this stuff to fire at our Civil War reenactments to make noise in our cannons, rifles, and pistols. It's saved us lots of money. We recently joined the North-South Skirmish Association to do competition shooting, so now I am in the process of making the best and most consistent powder I can. Thank you for sharing your excellent experience.
Thanks for the work and time you spend on educating people. Great job.
You bet
EBP: Thanks for showing and explaining the density by puck thing! Really cleared things up for me.
You bet
I learn something every time I watch one of your videos. I have noticed the glazed appearance of the factory black powder I have bought but I never knew how that was achieved.
Can’t thank you guys enough Jake, for all the extensive work and detail in your videos. It’s really exciting to be able to use my own powder in my muzzle loader. Deer season is coming up quick in Pa! Looking forward to putting my powder to use! It’s about the same as Goex, even cleaner. And cheaper! Time will tell if I buy a 20ton press or not, but for my first few tries, I’m excited!! Thanks, till you’re better paid! 😊
Glad to hear it
The black powder master blaster, and guru, has spoken! Thank you for a very insightful and informative presentation, definitely did not suck!
This video DID NOT SUCK. Quite frankly it was AWESOME, and needed info! THANKS!
Really interesting video for flow and density dynamics of powders👍 brought back memories of being in university 😀
Black P0wder Story
I used to live in Nunavut, Canadian Eastern Arctic and it was a hunting and fishing paradise 😊
Some stories I heard from some older Inuit hunters about their elders who still used antique propellant. The kit was basic and the "possible bag" was a big thing so occasionally things would get mixed up a bit and normally that wasn't an issue as the propellant goes everywhere 😉 however, it would apparently get downright exciting when the old boy would decide that he'd like a new pipe full of tobacco 😶🌫️ and it would light up with quite a bit more vigorously 😂🤣😅
Love the channel, I have a pair of 1851 colt navy revolvers and with the ear defenders on they're my favorite "foom-ers".
So different from bullseye 🎯
Man Jake, great video. For those of us that are just thinking about possibly one day making our on BP, this video here answers so many questions. When I first started just looking at loading BP Cartridges, I would see guys on certain BP Forums say you never weighed your charges. You always go by volume, and that would always confuse me until I bought my first few jugs of commercial BP and I’d use my volume scale and then I’d pour it out onto my scale it 99.5% of the time, the weight would be at the same value as the volume. So since then I’ll weight out my charge along with also using my volume scale. So now I know I still have a ways to go before attempting to make my own stuff. But I definitely enjoyed this video. Thank You for being so specific with your methods. 👍👍
Thanks Benjy
I dont even shoot guns..lol..just build hobby sky shots and random fireworks..where bp is always used. The interweb is full of advice and how to..but after a while of watching you..its opened my eyes and learned me a few things that work better..lol
Love you guys..keep it up🎉🎉🎉🎉
A rare Pirates of the Caribbean reference. A surprise to be sure, but a welcome one.
I always tap my measure three times. This is done no matter the power. In my GRRW rifle from a rest it will keep three shots at an inch at 100 yards. This is a good video. Thank you.
Again A perfect explonation of making the perfect Black Powder.
And it dident sucks love your lessons.
Keep your eyes on the pad ,your butt low.
And your powder dry.
I don’t know how but you seem to answer my questions before I ask. Love ya man GREAT VIDEO!!
Thank you
If you ever get raided by the Automotive Transmission Fluid, they are going to be so confused by the dozens of tupperware containers labeled "cottonelle" "cornstalks" "portobello mushroom" "alfalfa hay" "cat hair".
😂😂😂😂
Great explanation and demonstration. Thanks.
I only glaze my powder because I find it pours easier from my flask
That’s a good enough reason
Jake your epic, you really explained the reason for pucking and glazing your powder well. I have learned something every time I have viewed your channel. You are the king of homemade black powder propellent. I personally wouldn't give many people that title, who do anything here on TH-cam. So, for what it's worth, that's how I feel about your techniques and abilities to explain how you came to your conclusions. Take care!
Thank you very much!
Who's Eric? The guy talking's name is Jake, like it says on his shirt.
@@erik_dk842 That's what happens when your "smart" phone doesn't know the difference between eric or epic, dumb phone.
@@sheerluckholmes5468 Autocorrect strikes again 😩
@@erik_dk842 Jake? Eric? His name's Ricky Lafleur.
Excellent discussion and a lot of good questions. Glazing seems to increase the real or apparent powder density. I find glazing can decrease MV a little but minimal effect on fouling. To save time, I glaze all the sortings at once: pucks are ground until everything will pass through the 1F screen, sift off the dust, then batch glaze all of it. After glazing, I sift off the dust again (minimal) and then sort into 1,2, and 3Fg.
If I glaze it for more than 6 hours or so it starts to lose velocity
Very good information, I wondered how you kept the density consistent. Good explanation of how and why to glaze, thanks much!!
Nope, didn’t suck at all, I don’t even make my own BP yet found this informative! And interesting! Seems you go thru a lot to make these different powders for us. Thanks
You neatly explain why you should calibrate your volumetric measure, and why serious competition shooters use scales to weigh out each charge before hand.
Did NOT suck! Ok, this makes a hell of a lot more sense to me. I made my 1st batch of BP using Walnut and the results were very poor (velocity wise). I used the screen method and didn't glaze the powder. I poured 50grns from my flask without even thinking about grain loss. I'm going to bump it up now. Thanks for all the great info for us greenhorns. God Bless
Happy to help
This I do believe is True.
Hope you Men are doing fine!
Christ Bless All of you and your Families.
~Hawk
Thanks hawk. You going to Northcoat in a few weeks?
Jake, thank you so very much for sharing all of your hard earned research. You have helped me understand my favorite hobby more than I ever have. I know you have a regular job and all of the usual responsibilities, but still find time to make some in-depth videos. Thanks again! I hereby dub thee "The Prince of Powder"😊
Thank you
MORE great info and knowledge. I had this big question to ask. But F it. Nice video Jake.
I read that Swiss glazes at a very slow rpm, 20-30/min. My mill goes much faster which I thought would be a problem. But I saw your setup at the end and guess glazing at a higher rpm isn't a problem.
No. it’s as simple as whatever works best.
I always thought that it would be pulverized by that, especially in large batches, because of all the weight on top.
Thanks Jake. Master Class in Black Powder Production. You should get accreditation and sell diplomas. 😁 Really sincerely appreciate your videos and all the efforts put into this.
You bet
Excellent video and tutorial! 👍
This video sure helped with a lot of my questions!!!
Wondering if you ever thought about using coal as carbon source? Not sure if one would just grind it up as is or try to coke it??? Thoughts?
Coal won't work. Charcoal still has the cell structure of wood so it is sort of like styrofoam under a microscope, this is very important to make a fast burning powder. Also charcoal still has a small amount of wood tar and other substances in it, this is thought to be important too and is why charcoal that is cooked too long won't make as good a powder. The difference in cell structure of different kinds of wood is supposed to be why charcoal from some kinds of wood are better than others. Usually the lighter the wood the better.
Great work! Seeing this leads me to an interesting question; if you compare equal weights of screened, compressed but unglazed and compressed and glazed, what is the difference in performance?
Excellent question. We will give it a try
I have done some of these tests with everything equal except one load was glazed (same batch of bp). Your mileage may vary but I found glazing tends to slightly reduce the MV and no significant change in fouling.
@@robertstump4740 That would make sense, since the grains of unglazed powder, with more 'nooks and crannies', should ignite more readily and give at least a slightly faster overall burn. This might have a more pronounced effect in a pistol or eprouvette than in a rifle.
i want to help you. in your pyrolizer braze pipe to lid. then braze a copper pipe to the outlet and then attach- then run the 3 feet of the copper to a coiled 5 coils 6 inches in diameter place in the bucket of water (to a heat removed). like in a 5-gallon bucket of water. . cook the charcoal and let the copper pipe bubble under water until it wants to stop -- no air gets in the charcoal that's important.!!. then check the lbs. with a gauge to 1/2 lb to 3/4 lb. and your charcoal is ready to bag up. tobacco stalks are the most powerful charcoal.
Thanks Jake! you are teaching me how to make quality black powder, I would like to know if there is a particular grain Mill that you would recommend and what type of material is should be made out of.
I learned so much from your efforts and curiosity thank you pawpaw
Thank you
I would be really interested if you threw a black powder substitute into the ball mill for a few hours, if it would perform any better. Maybe pyrodex or bh209. I know it’s stupid and nobody would ever do that but it’d be interesting
You're the man. Thank you.
Awesome knowledge!! How do you get rid of the dust after glazing? Also, do you put a bit of graphite in it, maybe the shine come from the graphite in the commercial powder?
We use a variety of micron filter bags. We will do a video on that soon. No we don’t use graphite. Graphite is little more than a contaminant
Thanks for the tutorial
Excellent exclamation !
Jake, why do you only compress up to 1.75g/cc?
I've been able to compress up to 2g/cc. But it doesn't matter to me, since I don't carry metal cartridges.
I don’t only compress my powder to
1.75g/cm3 I only use that for powder that I compare to commercial brands. I use 1.55 for rifle-muskets and smooth bores.
If you dont glaze it there is more air in the volume guage it's like putting a bunch of 2x4s at different angles in a room the filling the room with balls witch one has less air
Yep
Excellent explanation. I wonder, was it unglazed powder that led to the use of a drop tube?
Thank you. I don’t think so because glazed powder predates the use of self contained metallic cartridges
@@Everythingblackpowder that makes sense. They've been experimenting with the stuff for a long time.
Thank you for this very enjoyable and informative video six stars sir
You bet
I have just one comment and I have been asked this question on this a couple times since I started this endeavor and it is what does the glazed compress powder weigh per cubic centimeter, and how is the powder measure calculated. So carefully measured my powder measure and found it to be 11 mm inside diameter set it to 50 grains and measure down to the links to where the plunger at did the math and come up with the metric cubic centimeters and there as I can figure properly compressed powder, three of at least compressed to 1.75 g/cm³ actually weighs 15.7 grains per cubic centimeter or just a hair over 1 g. Of course, that means nothing as long as you were measuring as you described in your video here and adjusting in that manner, but for those who are asking, that is what I have come up with
That’s interesting. I’ve never tried calculating it after it’s all said and done.
Does screened powder by weight give you velocities similar to compressed powder of the same weight?
Theoretically should be a little slower, but not much.
@@PwntifexMaximus I have some screened powder that I use in an 1851 .44, due to it's low density I use the loading lever to compress as much powder as I can get in the cylinder and still get a ball in it level with the end - it works really well, compressed like that it averages about 1000 fps on my chronometer. I fill the chamber, compress it, fill the chamber again and compress it, then top it off with the ball. Just going by volume alone and adding 30 gr it is worse than anemic. The powder is quite fluffy.
interesting information, thanks for these videos.
Read somewhere in the past the navies would use barley or rye straw for gunpowder as it would resist humidity better id guess that graphite and polishing them would also help reduce the amount of moisture it would pull out the air
Thanks you just solved a big question i had. In my first propellent attempt I was between Goex and Swiss. I have both on hand. My 2F was much closer to Swiss and my 3 F was just a little better than Goex. I glazed my 2F but not my 3F. Question answered! Thanks Jake.
You bet
Uber noob here, but would unpolished grains actually have a quicker burn rate, thus resulting in higher velocities due to it being porous?
Yes. Swiss actually hangs slightly in my flintlicks while my lightly glazed and unglazed doesn't hang. The nitrate shell surrounding the grains of Swiss desensitizes the grain to flame just a little and yes it effects velocity just a hair.
@@missingthe80s58agreed. This is why I don’t glaze the hell out of my powder. Just a light glazing does the trick
Yes. Wood with sharp edges catches fire quicker than rounded edges.
Cool stuff man. Would you ever test black powder 44 magnum loads or 500 magnum loads
I am a new follower of yours. I have seen where you have used cottonwood, fence post, and cottonelle to make your char coal. Have you tried hickory or white oak? They are among the highest BTU producing hardwoods, I wonder how their char coal impacts your performance.
Does glazing leave a lot of fine powder behind?
What rpm do you mill or glaze at? Does it matter? I tried to go back thru some of your vids and Im sure youve said, I just couldnt find it... So many questions mostly due to Im new to BP and wanting to learn, safely would be pretty cool too..
So does glazing require a re-screening to remove the knocked off particles that were the roughness of the powder or do the particles somehow reattach at a more convenient location to fill in the roughness like some pyrotechnic Bondo?
Yes it most certainly does. Sorry I failed to mention that
I honestly prefer to roast my powder, it makes it tougher and meaner. I’ll glaze it enough when it works well.
Hey bro make another video on corning black powder, I really luv the first one, I bet I've watched it 100 times!!!!😁
I was just about to ask you why my powder was less dense after grinding. But while I’m here, do you notice any difference in performance between glazed and unglazed (same charge weight), in a muzzle loader? I imagine cartridges would be a different beast.
I have seen several comments in the past alluding to a more primitive form of powder making, aka a SHTF scenario. If you run out of things to do (ha!), an interesting project might be to see how good of a powder you can make without electricity.
All the processes can be done without electricity. They'll just take longer and/or will just require a lot more work. I really wonder what the quality/power of black powder was before there was electricity. It's been around for so long, I'm sure they had some kinds of methods to make it better quality than the crappy screened black powder we have today (the stuff people don't compress, but just run through a screen). I tried that several times before in revolvers and it just wasn't powerful enough. I could only ever get like 20 grains in the chamber and it just didn't give me a velocity that was even remotely acceptable.
@@deucedeuce1572 Wind power has run mills for centuries as well as water. Many mills were placed along water courses for power. After that was steam power. The quest is how could a DIY bp maker power his mill using materials readily available.
swiss probably glazes it like this because of logistics, gives a more consistent pour in to containers, weght differens is probably quite important for a commertial product.
Jake, a buddy and your's truly have been thinking about trying just compressing and then screening the powder down before letting it dry (grinding it is a pain in the ass!!) have you tried that? but on measuring, i did what Dave Canterbury did got my charge figured out and cut a piece of copper tubing smashed one end flat for a tang and cut it off even with the powder level and made a fixed powder measure, i made 2 actually one for actual black (with a B stamped in the tang) and one for subs(stamped with an S)!!
i learned a lot from your videos, and i improve on your ideas. i want to let you in on my inventions on black powder. on your priolisos cooker put a 1/2 to 10 lbs. pressures gauge with a pressure release vale. when you only see 1/2 to 3/4 lbs. on the. pressure on the gauge your charcoal is done. but you have to put a cooler before the gauge to keep it from overheating. tobacco stalks is the best. These stalks are lighter than balsa wood .
Thanks guys, I think polishing is almost a secondary compression phase where it knocks off the sharp edges then re-incorporates them under it's own weight. I always have less "shake" powder after polishing than before.
Really? I always thought there's be more. Then again, I thought that glazing wouldn't even be possible, because it would get crumbled into a fine powder. That's probably because I had a lot of (bad) experience with regular uncompressed screened powder. It was hard to get that to even remain granules at all.
@@deucedeuce1572 I thought so at first too, turns out that it doesn't collapse under it's own weight, In my head I imagine them tumbling around like a snowball rolling down hill, smoothing out and gathering material as it goes. This is my imagination, I don't know for sure why, just that it's the results I get.
@@donakahorse lol.
random question, where do you find your sorting screens? i see on amazon some "20 mesh, 1 mm stainless steel mesh". .but im of the understanding that 20 mesh is 0.8 mms (fff powder) while 1 mm is more like 18 mesh (ff powder) so.. thats not super helpful. the other options im seeing are massive rolls that are like 27 dollars each, which is far more than id want to spend for far more material than id need. thank you!
he mentions in previous videos he uses off the shelf mesh filter bags
@@Frank-bc8gg those seem a little too fine for fff powder though?
Test idea for future: does pressing time matters? I once read old papers about 1860 BP factory from Poland and it says the pressed powder for couple of hours. And I’m thinking is that a thing?
Done it both ways and cannot see any significant difference. I'm only getting about 1.62-1.65g/cc. Think the puck die is too tall, going to try a die that gives a shorter, broader puck
@@schinderiapraemeturus6239we call it dwell time and no we haven’t seen any measurable difference
I seem to recall from the book about powder production at Waltham Abbey in the 1880s they did not use the dwell time; once the volume they wanted was reached, they cut the pressure.
I figured that out by accident, once I was confused why my 1.75cc BP isn’t equal by weight with brass scale, but one batch I made was glazed about 18 hours (I forgot about it) and it was perfect.
And i suggest not to add graphite - it slows BP quite a lot.
I completely agree. Graphite is little more than a contaminant
When I first got into reloading (smokeless)y dad told me "for the love of God don't trust those Lee dippers. They're great spoons but your powder will always be changing weight". I've weighed every charge I've put in a casing and yah sometimes Thursday powder weighs a little different than Friday powder
When I buy any reloaded ammo, I always weigh each and every bullet... because if any of them have a double charge, they'll definitely show up on the scale at a higher weight. I've never found one to be heavy... but I've also never had any blow up... so I've been lucky so far. I had two that were about 2 grains light, but on both of them I could see a defect in the HP part of the bullet where a small piece of lead was missing. It only takes a minute and I'm really surprised other people don't do the same, especially with so many guns blowing up from improperly reloaded ammo. Even if I reloaded my own ammo, I would still weigh each and every round at the end to be sure.
Does the extra surface area of non-glazed powder affect the burn rate? A little faster perhaps?
@@letsgo8941 yes. Highly glazed powder will have a slower burn rate. That’s the main reason I don’t glaze my powder to Swiss levels
They will be asking for your barometric pressure on the day and details about your grandparents voting choice next , you called there bluff and I wonder what they will be asking next ..... keep up the good work 👍
I'm not sure if you have the experience to even be commenting on such things. You probably don't even know your grandparents voting choices or the barometric pressure in Austin TX on an average October day at twilight.
If your volumetric measure does not match your weight, weigh yor charge and adjust volumetric measure accordingly!
Bada bing bada BANG!!!
😎👍
yeah, as long as it's not so far off that it won't fit in your chamber anymore. I've tried some screened black powder before that was so light and fluffy that I couldn't even get 15 grains to fit in the chamber, let alone the 50 grains it was supposed to hold. It was so bad I don't know how people ever got by without compressing their powder. I'm sure it's fine in rifles... but in a lot of revolvers, it's just not dense/powerful enough.
Interesting. I'm thinking density and ignition. What does compressing the powder do, other than make it more dense. Graded powder verses compressed powder. Yes, graded powder will require more by volume. But assuming this is the same powder, both should perform somewhat equally. I am thinking in nano seconds; pressure curves over time. Speed of ignition. I'm thinking a lesser dense powder would react quicker. Just a thought.
What percentage of fines is everyone getting after the final screening, before glazing?
I have found that glazing helps my shot to shot consistency.
Excellent
Have you ever though about tasting you powder to study if glazed or unglazed left a foul after taste? I mean could you add a teaspoon to your morning coffee for a little KICK in the morning? Keep up the good work
weird science question , what would happen if you added 1 or 2 % large pistol smokeless powder to the mix when you milled it ?
I’m not at liberty to release that information at this time
I swear sooner or later these guys are going to make powder that's going to be better than smoke less
Hi, I have heard you mention that you use a 20 ton shop press for compressing? Do you know what the lowest tonnage press would be that could be used to compress to 1.75?
I'm gonna take a wild guess that commercial powders are glazed to a higher finish to minimize being involuntarily glazed in the can during transport and storage. Who wants to open a can of expensive sporting powder and find dust in the bottom? It might even be an OSHA-type consideration, not danger of burns but of breathing the fine dust. What do you think?
Out of curiosity, I was doing some burn tests on paper to see if the powder glazed in the rubber jar was dirtier than powder glazed in an HDPE plastic jar. I weighed the paper after burning 38.08 - 38.21 grains of 3F and I found the rubber jar glazed powder left about 1.5% more junk behind.
I'm wondering if there actually is any rubber particles getting picked up or if maybe I'm not a very good backyard weekend scientist
We have tested both glazed and in glazed and found no noticeable difference in fouling but I only glaze my powder for a few hours. 6 at the most
@everythingblackpowder can you do a video regarding how powder is measured? Recently got into a debate with someone over the “smokeless is measured by weight, black powder is measured by volume” line.
Aren’t both measured technically by weight? Like don’t volumetric measures correspond to a weight of powder filling that particular volume?
Thanks for the video. Im terrible at math but have figured it out. My results are matching yours without glazing. I may just add more.
Glad to hear it
Jake, I have noticed that powder that I do not glaze performs faster than my glazed powder and was wondering if you have noticed that
Question is just how much dextrin are adding to get a hard durable pellet of powder .or are just pressing it than graining.great show it appreciated thank you.
No dextrin. Dextrin is a contaminant
Wait... maybe I'm really missing a concept here: if the powder is milled for 24 or 48 hours, shouldn't that accomplish the "smoothing" of granules that the glazing operation does? Apparently not - but I don't understand why.
Great video as usual
Great video. Would there be a velocity or cleanliness gain with Schuetzen or GOEX powder if they were glazed for a couple of hours by the consumer? Or is there nothing that can be done to improve the stuff? Thank you for the fine content. It is amazing to see how much there is to learn about making powder and various load combinations. Thanks for the enlightenment.
I don’t think think more glazing will improve Goex or scheutzen
@@Everythingblackpowder Thank you for the bad news. The upside is that I am going to become really good at cleaning my rifles, as I have just over 4lbs of Schuetzen to get through. Got my first wood duck with the smoothbore this fall, so at least the stuff is sufficient to harvest game. Thanks again for the "bitching" content. My wife and I are looking forward to watching your channel as it evolves and weaves it way through the black powder and reloading culture. Good luck.
@@richarddean3154 thank you
I always thought the "black powder is measured by volume!" argument is dumb. Volume is inconsistent for grains.
Mass is mass, period.
Agreed
ACTUALLY (Poindexter pushes up glasses), mass is also energy. Couldn't resist, try to picture Paul Harrell doing his 'actually' bit too.
Damn, I never thought for a second that black powder could be loaded into a giant container without breaking down into a powder, let alone then turned in that container with all the weight of the other powder. Anytime I've ever made powder, the granules have just never been that dense or that hard.
It is necessary to make it glaze?
Not really, no
Since you are milling for days on end, has anyone considered using free renewable energy to power their mill? It would be so cool to have a mill powered by a stream or a windmill.
Solar panels and a battery is a bit too modern, but OK
Mills have been run with renewable resources for centuries. The energy a modern mill uses these days (of this size) use very little energy. At the price of about $0.09/kwh (average price and our price here in NY), they probably only cost a couple cents to run for a couple days. Even if they used 100 watts of power, they would only cost about 1 cent per hour or about 22 cents per day. I doubt they use that much power though.
So where do you get your screens and compression dies from?
Do you measure water content of your finished product?
You should compare screened BP to the corned BP both weighed to the same amount, not volume, and see which performs better. People making BP for guns seem to think screened BP is weaker than corned BP because they measure it by volume, but I bet if you actually use the same amount by weight, the screened BP would be faster because it's rougher, and much less dense (much more surface area), allowing for the fire to burn through it quicker. People say fireworks BP is screened because it doesn't need to be as powerful as it does for guns, but really it's just because in fireworks, volume doesn't really matter. In fireworking, charges are weighed, not measured by volume, space is rarely an issue in fireworks, so it makes more sense to go with the higher volume, but more rapidly burning BP. Of course, I understand corned BP would still be the way to go for muzzle loading regardless, since you can carry more in a smaller container, among many other things, and it's just the traditional way of doing it, which is sort of what it's all about, right? Maybe I'm totally wrong, and corned BP of the same weight is still faster, but that's the general thinking in the fireworks community so I'd really like to see it tested.
What do you do with the dust created by the glazing process? Leave it in? Screen it out and re puck it? Use it in flash pans?
Throw it back in the mill
Just from looks, and I know that doesn't mean much, it would seem like unglazed powder would burn better. Have you tested that? Does it make any difference?
The last time we tested it, there was no noticeable difference at all between the glazed and unglazed powder. However, that might be because we don’t glaze the hell out of our powders like Swiss does.
Great and informative as always, have a great weekend 👋
Thank you. Same to you