* NOTES SINCE PUBLICATION * I forgot to make the point in the video that you currently need to have a GivEnergy battery to be on Intelligent Octopus Flux.
Initial comments after having switched from Agile after Gary’s video, it seems to be doing what many have done using HomeAssistant and the Add On PredBat, but without the angst of learning all the ins and outs of those systems. It is apparent it uses the solar forecasts then starts charging the battery as the inverter starts clipping the output, then dumps it all down to 33% of our 8.2kWh battery. So far so good 😀
Another excellent video. It's great to see you trying these tariffs out. As an owner of a givenergy battery I will wait with baited breath for the results.
Thanks - yeah, it's an interesting experience, seeing how they all work in practice :-) And I'm quite impressed with how Octopus is managing my battery...
The 1600 - 1900 hours discharge is also flexible. I’ve noticed that I’ve been discharging till 1930 ish probably to get the battery down to a reasonable recharge level. My total energy cost last month on this tariff was £13. That’s because we heat our water with gas. At the moment in May I’m £60 to the good. As I commented originally months ago it does take a bit of getting used to, so far I am satisfied how it is performing. Keep up the good work Gary.
Another great topic Gary! Probably needs a warning up-front though that if you don't have a GivEnergy battery (and most don't) that this option is simply not available. For most of us this is something that may happen in the future, or just fades away.
Love your video’s and I’ve been running IOF since April. I’m only just getting comfortable with them managing everything. I’m struggling with the infinite battery concept being something for the winter though. I did occasionally miss starting or stopping Timed Discharge and this certainly relieves me of that (self-imposed) stress. Keep up the good good 👍🏻
Thanks for your kind words about my videos. Yeah, it's a strange feeling have your battery totally controlled by a remote party, but I've found (after 3 weeks of use) that it's doing a good job, so I don't need to check up it every day now... and isn't that precisely where we want things to get to? :-)
@@GaryDoesSolar i was hesitant with octopus taking control but i did forget to export at 4pm a few times last summer. for some reason they dont do full export 4-4.30pm but other than that i got no complaints
I’m now on intelligent Octopus Flux and something I noticed today on the nice sunny day I’m getting 5kW from the solar panels but collectively the battery icon says 70% full, but the IOF software has decided to send to the solar energy to the grid & home hours before the peak export is due to start. I would have thought my the three batteries would be allowed to get to 100% full before the peak export period starts. So I drilled down on the GivEnergy battery icon to inspect the batteries storage , batt one 78%. Batt two 65%. and batt three 62%. Do you only look at the aggregate value? I think it would be better to allow the batteries to maximise the solar energy to the full when outside the peak export rate. Is this something you can fix? Or is a GivEnergy software issue? Or perhaps you could work with them to fix the issue. All my kit is GivEnergy, 5kW hybrid inverter, 3x 95kW batteries and new GivEnergy EV charger. Or served by solar panels. Kind regards
Another thing that surprised me with IOF after the peak export rate, which needlessly continued beyond the peak export time, yesterday evening I noticed that 8:30pm the grid was feeding my house needs but not allowing the battery to feed the house which had about 6.7KW of collective power still stored in the GivEnergy 3x 9.5kW batteries. The residual power could have covered my house needs during that time of night which about 500watts. It’s early days but Octopus’s software seems not to make simple decisions to get the best value of stored energy in my battery array.
I've also noticed strange (unexplainable) behaviour with my IOF setup. I simply trust that Octopus Energy knows what it's doing with regard to my setup, and so I just let them get on with it. I'll make a review after 3 months say to see if there are patterns, and I might reach out to people including yourself for data in support of that, if that's ok?
Gary, good video and explaining to people how it works. I changed from Octopus Go also in Oct last year to Agile. But the Agile wasn't for me, there are nice low or 'you get money' for importing or exporting electricity but it didn't get me what I wanted. I switched in April to Octopus Intelligent Go (as I have an EV). I have also PV and batteries and have now my import down to approx 8p/kW using the 7ppkw charging over night (Scotland)
I've been on IOF for a few weeks now, and I've found it works a little differently from how you explained. I'm getting reduced power export at around 2KW between 4 30pm and 6pm then further export from 7pm to 8pm (outside of peak rate). Battery discharges to 40% and idles overnight so drawing from the grid. It starts to charge up to a limit of 1200W in the morning when it gets light from solar. I've turned off my Eddi solar diverter to maximise export income. This time Last year I was exporting 33% of my solar generation, whereas this year it is nearer to double, even when subtracting the night time draw from the grid. It looks very profitable, but it seems the battery is being used to balance grid demand rather than maximising income for the customer, after all this is the whole purpose of the product !
An excellent and timely reminder to have another look at this tariff. It didn’t seem to make any sense when it was first released at the end of last summer.
Been on this tariff just over a week now, and I'm pleased by both the automatic battery management, and the financial returns! I'm seeing about 33% more export revenue compared to regular Flux, and have had no clipping from my 5kW hybrid inverter thanks to Octopus charging the battery at 1.5kW from 10am-4pm. I also don't have to 'guess' what the weather will do the following day, and decide how much to charge my battery in the off-peak window beforehand. Couple of other observations: 1. The charging pattern seems very straightforward, however they do put limits on the state of charge of the battery for each time slot, for example - charge the battery to 26% from 10:00-10:30. This can lead to my battery getting to 26% and stopping charging before 10:30, which seems a bit odd, and has the potential for a few minutes' clipping over the peak hours. It does however give my inverter a little break to cool down a bit. 2. The environmental benefits may not be the best, as often the grid is dirtiest just after 7pm, when my battery is idle and I'm drawing back from the grid. I may have to look into using my battery below 20% for the evening, just to be a bit greener. 3. The GE app shows that overnight, if my house baseload is 120W, I may be drawing 190W from the battery. However, on IOF then I'm using grid power, which draws less (just under 160W for a 120W load). I still haven't got to the bottom of this discrepancy, but I'm happier on IOF because I can use the grid overnight, and save myself about 0.5kWh losses from the battery per day. It'll be interesting to see how charging patterns change if there's a very windy period and wholesale import rates are low - I expect the battery will charge during these times, similar to how an automated Agile system works.
@@GaryDoesSolar following up on point 1 above... It seems that once the target SoC % is reached, the inverter will stop charging the battery UNLESS there's excess generation, in which case it will feed that into the battery, avoiding any clipping as long as there's still space in the battery. Not a cloud in the sky today and I've got a perfect curve. Lovely!
Hi Gary, I have just switched today from Octopus Flux to the Intelligent tariff. Looking forward to see how it all works out. The beauty of Octopus is the ability to quickly switch between tariffs, so you are not tied in if something does not work out as you expected.
Thanks Gary, I too am on Agile+fixed export and had considered going back to Flux, your video has caused me to do some envelope calculations for IOF - conclusion is that it's marginal benefit for me: I compared two days, 12th May poor solar (30kWh generated, 9 imported) where on Agile I received £2 net profit, on IOF it's £1.10 For 14th May a good solar day (70 generated, 13 imported), Agile profit was £8.25, IOF it'd be £8.90. Assuming more good than not good, IOF is therefore slightly better but not much, offset in part by the standing charge being 24p higher. In your calculations of peak rate cost arbitrage I suggest you need to subtract your peak period home consumption from the export potential as you want to be taking that from the battery not the grid. On those two days for me it's 2.8kWh peak consumption that would come off my theoretical best case 10.7kWh peak period export. If Octopus doesn't export the most it can then profit will of course be lower. Interesting stuff though
The way it discharges is to set the discharge on your battery to the amount it would take to get from 100 to 20% in 3 hours. This is then your discharge rate split between export and house load. So on no solar days you won’t export the full 80% but days when your solar will cover the load you will get the full 80% out. My battery discharges at 2571 watts. So on dull days you will import during peak times if your house load > solar + 2571. That sounds bad when you have a battery but it does balance out. You will always deplete your battery buy 80% but the house load will be taken off this if no solar. On the other hand on very good solar days you’ll export up to the max inverter amount. What I haven’t experienced yet is if the 2571 + solar is above 5 kw in my case. I’m guessing the solar will go out no matter what and you could end up with more than 20% at 1900 hours.
If your solar + battery export exceeds 5kW then I can confirm it lowers the battery discharge rate, and you may be left with more than 20% by 19:00, which is then discharged at a lower power until it gets to 20%
How are you finding inverter temperatures? I’m seeing 60+ during the forced discharge period. So high in fact that I’ve resorted to using a Home Assistant automation to impose a 2min pause if it reaches a preset threshold. I’ve reported what I’m seeing to Octopus and they’re looking into it but I’d be in interested to know if anyone else is seeing similar behaviour.
@@ArheddisVarkenjaab yep, regularly exceeding 60 degrees for the discharge period. In fact, over the warm weekend I was peaking above 70 degrees. I've improved ventilation to the inverter, but may invest in a small fan once the weather is consistently warmer. However, the GPU on my laptop sits around 60 degrees for hours - aren't modern electronics designed to work at such temps? Should we even be concerned about a couple of hours at 60-70 degrees?
@@DarkS1m Thanks for the feedback. My concerns are (a) it *feels* bloody hot! 🙂 and (b) I'm sure I read somewhere that 60C is the max operating temp and I don't want to risk voiding my GE warranty (I'm also pretty sure that the small print in GE's T's & C's carries a disclaimer on smart tariffs where the equipment is being managed by a 3rd party). I have contacted Octopus again and asked them to pass info back to their Tech team so will keep you posted.
Hi Gary, fantastic video as usual. I've been on IOF for the last few months, and for the most part it works great as you say. However I think it can be more intelligent. I have noticed on a sunny day, when my PV can generate 7.5kw, there can be 3.0kw charging of the battery and 4kw export with baseload of 0.5kw. Fantastic !!! But I have noticed the battery being idle or worse actually charging from the grid during the morning of a forecasted sunny day. My theory is that it may be possible to have the battery full by lunch time. With the sun still shining I will still export at 4kw with 0.5kw baseload but the battery can't charge as it is full, with generation at about 7.5kw, my system will be clipped by 3.5kw / hour. If the system was "more intelligent" and took a sunny forecast in to account it would not import to charge the battery in the morning, as it knows the charging will be by solar allowing maximum useage of the PV generation. Now I haven't actually seen this happen yet, but I'd be interested to know if other people have seen this.
I have the same problem with Octopus charging the battery to 100% in the early hours leaving no room to prevent clipping. For now I have implemented a Home Assistant automation to stop their charge at 85% and another automation to top up the battery to 100% between 3pm and 4pm. This allows me to top up the battery by 10% to 15% from solar power that would otherwise be lost due to clipping. I also have 1 more automation that discharges the battery to 75% between 4pm and 5pm because Octopus do not start exporting until 5pm and, because solar production limits the achievable discharge rate, it often only reaches a SOC of ~50% by 7pm.
@@johnyogiburr2881 I've since moved to Octopus Flux, as Octopus were not happy with my automations overriding (fighting) their automations, but the automations used to monitor changes to GivTCP SOC, Charge Target SOC, Start and End Times etc and adjust them if Octopus changed them. However I was only aligning the charge and discharge with what the Octopus FAQs said it would do. For example the FAQs say "Your battery will discharge to the grid 4 - 7pm to take advantage of Octopus Flux’s high export rates" but they would not starting discharging (at full rate) until 5pm and would, more often than not, fail to discharge much below 50% SOC. If it was a bad solar day I could be importing at peak rate as Eco would be off and the battery is idle. They would then try to discharge at 8:30pm at off peak rates (which is a loss for me if you factor in the costs of charging and discharging the battery). They say they will "charge up using the greenest and cheapest energy - some of this will come from your solar and some from the grid" but they would always try to charge to 100% by 5am - no solar generation at that time so the battery is fully charge from imported electricity. And, as there is no battery space left to rescue clipped power, on a nice day I could loose between 1 and 2kWh of clipped energy (if I did not stop their overnight charge at 85%). If IOF worked as per their FAQs and if it made allowances for clipped power then this would be a good tariff.
The maths confirm this is the right switch for you, and then back onto Agile/Go in Oct. I did look at this tariff, but based on my April data, I would have been worse off on Flux rather than stick with Agile. I will re-check at the end of May and see if this now swings more in favour of Flux as I don't have historical data to use from last year. Thanks for another useful video.
@@GaryDoesSolar May wasn't the best on Agile (Apr was -£45) and I am on track to just break even. I think I will switch to Intelligent Flux at the end of the month. Have you experienced any issues with battery export stopping early and drawing rom the grid in last 15-30 mins of the peak period?
@@JohnThomas-ey1hx Because my battery capacity is high (19kWh) and maximum discharge rate comparatively low (3.6kW) during the 4-7pm period, it typically only manages to discharge down to 40/50%. This means it carries on discharging between 7 and 9pm (perhaps with one or two breaks). I don't think I've ever see grid draw during the peak period though, unless my home usage has been higher than 3.6kW at the time.
When the role out allows more than 'Give Energy' battery systems I'm going to switch. I'm on the standard flux tarrif at the moment but want to swap ASAP... Great Channel Gary keep up the good content 👍
Thanks for your kind words! :-) Yeah, I'm looking forward to seeing which other inverters/batteries are supported over time. And hopefully, tariffs like Intelligent Octopus Flux encourage manufacturers to open up their platforms in support...
Is the Give Energy Battery the Octopus go to when they install panels and battery?? Tesla were very good before they chose to leave this market, Like you I fancy flux for the summer and agile for the winter, for me I want passive income to support my retirement just looks easy ??
@@graemeshort1928 I don't know actually, but it would make sense for Octopus to promote GivEnergy to the customer for all the extra benefits (including IOF)... It's early days for me on IOF, but so far, I'm very happy with it - and for those with far less annual home usage than generation, it should be a huge win!! 😃
@@graemeshort1928 Wile I have no doubt Octopus is one of the better utilities it is a business and making money is its raison d'etre. The reason it supports Give Energy is almost certainly a financial one, i.e. a kickback or commission, nothing wrong with that. If you want passive income, there are almost certainly better ways than a solar system. People are inherently scared of equities but history has shown that over time there is little that beats them. For instance in the US stocks have outperformed house prices substantially over the last 30 years
I enjoyed the Agile tariff through the winter (changing the settings on the inverter every day according to rates) especially the negative pricing times but at the end of March changed to Intelligent Go and life is a lot simpler. At 5.30 the house battery is 100% and after an hour or so of light I'm exporting and earning. All car charging is at 7.5p and all export earns 15p. I'm happy with that. Would be interested in IOF when my Fox battery becomes compatible.
I signed up to this tariff few days ago, but I still fail to understand the reason why it stops discharge at 20% and never uses the 20% it as it leaves my battery mode as Eco (Paused) after discharge. I see no reason why it can't just discharge down to your predefined reserve SOC (mine is 4% default reserved for power cut)?
Hi John, I don't know why they've chosen 20% either - perhaps it's to leave sufficient energy in the battery in case there is a power cut? Or perhaps it's to preserve the life of the battery? Not sure...
FYI: I live in Spain and have contracted Octopus Relax Tariff. (that's how it's called over here). I pay 0,1240 €/kWh + VAT (21%) (10.67 pence / kWh+VAT). For a household of 2, we consumed about 300kWh in March, and will probably use about 3000 kWh this year. Just to compare with your (Gary) 7200kWh. I assume you have electric immersion heater. I heat water with nat gas. And we of course have milder climate.
curious how this would compare to intelligent octopus that I’m on currently (which is gated behind a requirement for an EV). It opens up 15p export and with 7.5p offpeak for 6 hours so ideal for EV charging and battery charging. I can run the house from the battery so my ‘average’ rate is 8.5-9p, but in the summer I can get 15p export so arbitrage of 7.5p all day - plus my battery will likely be topped up anyway so I can still choose to force discharge at a similar arbitrage rate?
Yeah, you're right - I don't think any tariff on the market today can beat an EV tariff like Intelligent Octopus Go - it's so good! And it might be getting even better soon now that there is competition from Eon with their Drive V3 tariff..
Checking today figures very sunny I imported 3.7kwh and exported 25.37kwh. I switched to IOF early last month. Their charge and discharge control took a couple of days to sort, now by 4pm I’m close to 100% in battery, it stops exporting at 21% and has been very reliable. Sure I’m now making the most from my system 10.8kwp 19kwh batteries I do GO over winter as use a granny charger for my hybrid.
Hello Gary, I am currently on intelligent Flux at the moment. Just to let you know that not everyday Octopus are discharging for full 3 hours at peak rate also some days finishing at 18:30 which then puts you drawing back from the grid at peak rate when my battery has over 50% left. I think this needs to be factored into your calculation. Alan.
Currently 6kW/p on Agile import with Fixed outgoing, consuming nothing and exporting ~20kWh a day (May) ~ £2.50 net profit a day to us. We've a 9.5kW battery and did consider a 2nd battery but with a household use of ~12kWh a day we couldn't justify the cost and payback times for a 2nd being only 9.5kW*15p a day or about 7 years. Seriously thinking about Intelligent Octopus Flux for a 6 month trial to leverage a quicker payback time, and negate the need/desire to have a 2nd battery, just a little concerned if it voids or limits the GivEnergy battery warranty with it's terms around grid-trading. Really like the idea of loaning units at 22.73p/30.31p (my area) to the grid to store for me, as over the summer we tend to use a bit more electricity at night with bedroom aircon and I'm not sure the 9.5kW battery will fully support 21:00 to 07:00. My only niggle (and it a my mindset one) is exporting most of my battery at 4pm-7pm meaning I'll be importing in the later evening/night where currently I'm self sufficient.
Hi Andrew, thanks for these great points! On your niggle, remember though that even though you'll be exporting, the battery will cover all your house load (at least up to the output limit of your inverter) first...
Thanks, Gary - very helpful to get my head around possibilities. I don't have supported batteries (PureDrive II) but put them on the list with Octopus. Currently on Octopus Flux and doing my own arbitrage for the summer - which is going well so far. £100 in revenue since March, as my production is much greater than usage and I have found a manual force charge setting that works most days. Looking forward to hearing about the "One Tariff" approach 👍
Cheers Adrian - sounds like you're doing really well with Octopus Flux! Would be great to see further inverters/batteries being added to IOF over time. I really like the fact that Octopus Energy is able to use a massive array of batteries as a Virtual Power Plant (VPP) to help our National Grid out...
@@GaryDoesSolar absolutely, thank you 👍 I will be tempted with the power pack tariff for evs as well, the thought of having the capacity of the car battery available to the grid and free miles sounds quite tempting. Sadly it seems that the national Grid has vetoed the sale of the only charger capable of doing it at the moment☹
You always raise good points and I know you want to test this tariff, this seems fair... but I just cannot see anything that beats Intelligent Octopus Go, so for those that can this just seems to win out regardless. You just are never going to beat a tariff that lets you buy for 7.5p in the cheap window and then export at twice that rate all through the day... so from an infinity battery perspective for every 1kWh you store in the battery you get to draw back 2kWh. I liked the idea of Agile for when the power is really cheap, but in all honesty 98% of the time it rarely drops anywhere near the Go rate of 7.5p let alone go negative, Go being guaranteed each day for 6 hours minimum... I say minimum, because when you connect your car up at say at 18:00, Octopus will more often than not reduce the tariff then and there to the 7.5p rate all the way through till the morning... yet on Agile you are just left paying the higher rate. It is also simple to set and forget and just get on with life :)
I can't argue with you - IOG is a really good tariff - 7.5p is an incredibly low rate, and I hope to be on that tariff later this year, if all goes will with acquiring an EV! :-) Thinking about my next video then, "one tariff to rule them all", do you think IOG is a candidate for the mass market? I'm not sure that tariff can scale, as it must already be loss-making, no? Interesting times ahead, I think...
@GaryDoesSolar I notice that despite the agile rates they charge customers, what appears to be the wholesale rate is in fact a lot lower... and even lower than the 7.5p rate. So in this regard they are still not loosing money... what takes it away from the mass market "currently" is the fact you pretty much HAVE to have a battery to make any sort of viable use of it. To make it work you absolutely have to avoid 100% the normal day rate... It is like only having a tariff that lets you connect to the grid for 6 hours a day.
@@GaryDoesSolar there are a number of restrictions to 'everyone' being on IOG - they need a compatable charger and/or an EV and a domestic battery to benefit from it. While this is probably a lot of your viewers, it probably isn't a lot of Octopus customers!
@@FFVoyager That's a fair point. So let's fast forward 10 years then, then there are more people driving EVs than not. I'd like to think that EV charging standards will have evolved such that all chargers are compatible by then. In addition, home batteries should be very inexpensive then and far safer for the home - perhaps to the point where >30% homes have them. If those assumptions are anywhere near correct, then I'm wondering what that does for the economics for Octopus providing such a tariff...You've got me thinking...
Good video. I’ve been on the tariff since October. You missed two points. Firstly, a percentage of solar generation will be at peak export which increases export income. Secondly, in the summer the battery is charged evenly between 10am and 4pm. This could help some some users with clipping and as such get more generation.
So much to consider. I am just about to buy a new house and have the option of battery choice. It has a sizeable array at 9kw almost facing south with a 5kw air source and associated hot water tank. What battery to get? Much of the time i will be away and the house on short term let so it all needs to be simple distance management.
Just wondering about GivEnergy's GivBack tarrif. They say it is NOT supported if you are on Intelligent flux. GivBack stands to make a huge payback in the winter, so will it be that by switching fromFlux to intelligent flux I end up loosing out by not being able to be part of GivBack? (and also the secondary newer tariff) It would be good to know your thoughts..
Essentially, you can only have one remote entity controlling your battery at a time. In the case of GivBack, it's GivEnergy and in the case of Intelligent Octopus Flux, it's Octopus Energy.
I have a growatt battery and the intelligent octopus flux is only available if you have a givenergy battery. What would be the best tarrif? Im guessing the standard Octopus flux or the agile? Im unsure about the agile tariffrealistically?
Hi Louise, it’s not an easy answer as it depends on a number of factors including daily usage. Worth watching this video I made which explains everything you need to know about the Agile tariff in order to make a decision: th-cam.com/video/MbUDGbnHHBE/w-d-xo.htmlsi=19_L5jGTOHaUK3fb
I've switched from 'unintelligent' Flux to Intelligent - it is a much better deal! Not worried about Octopus' use of my battery - seems to be much gentler and more nuanced than the default Givenergy set-up. Had Flux for the winter as we didn't have an EV. Now we have an EV we can hopefully switch to Intelligent Go in Autumn. If the Givenergy EV charger is integrated (MGs are not integrated with Octopus so it has to be the home unit). Otherwise it will be a case of calculating when Traditional Go becomes better than Intelligent Flux.
Other than not having GivEnergy my concern with this tariff is not having a large enough battery. You need at least 15 kW of storage to be able to have the battery exporting for the full three hour peak period otherwise you will have to buy in some energy at peak rate. I prefer Flux. It would be interesting to see your calculations for how much better Intelligent Flux is than regular flux? Less than 5% of my energy is being used at anything other than the cheap overnight rate.
Hi Gary - I’m currently on Octopus Agile with a 9.5kW GivEnergy battery, but with an EV and GivEnergy charger. Can’t get onto Intelligent Go because the charger and car aren’t compatible and don’t want to be on Octopus Go as the export is so low. Would Intelligent Flux work for EV users do you think?
Hi Gavin, worth you watching this video from Tim & Kat's Green Walk, where Tim compares various tariffs over the year for EV users: th-cam.com/video/xz8XRwHcgC4/w-d-xo.html
I think you're right - the main benefit of the tariff is the parity of import/export rates. If you maximise your solar array and minimise your battery size just to get onto IOF, then that is surely the best combination for ROI
Yeah, although if you have a larger battery, the off-peak import / peak export price arbitrage might come into play... but would it cover the cost of that larger battery though? Probably not...
@@GaryDoesSolar Our usage is about 11kWh per day so even a small battery would cover our peak rate use and the proposed solar array (16 panels with a 5kW inverter) would cover this easily with export in the summer. When we are away we use about 3kWh so a lot of potential export. The only problem is needing a Give Energy battery. My plan was to use Growatt in 3.3KWh modules. One might be enough. Hopefully Octopus will have increased the range of batteries to qualify or even waived it altogether so the Grid battery will carry the whole load.
Thanks again for the interesting video. I should be on this tariff from 20th May as that's when my Solar 12 panel array and Givenergy 5.2 KWh battery. I will need to get my head around the spreadsheets and at some point would like to compare notes with you Gary
Just to let you know, Intelligent Flux requires you to have completed the process for setting up an export tariff first. Octopus say this can take up to 6 weeks, but mine took 2 weeks from date of install last month. This means you won't be able to get onto this tariff (or earn anything for export) immediately after install, and will first have to apply for another export tariff such as regular Flux, which requires submission of a couple of certificates that should be supplied promptly by your installer (MCS/FlexiORB cert and the DNO export confirmation).
I’ve been on OIF for a few months now having switched from bog standard flux. I’m broadly happy with it but there is a downside. In Suffolk we are fortunate to benefit from Octopus Power Ups but OIF isn’t intelligent enough to charge your batteries during these 2-3 hr periods. I’m yet to raise it with them - seems daft as you have zero control to make any changes!
Thanks for this video! There's precious little guidance out there on this tariff. I'm finding that IO Flux is force importing a full battery from the grid overnight, regardless of the solar forecast. Normally this time of year on a sunny day, solar would fill my battery and export plenty. Import rates are not cheap at 24p, so I don't think this is actually that more economical than Agile, even excluding battery wear. Especially with a higher standing charge, and being unable to run the battery past 20% floor limit. Thoughts?
Hi Sam, you're most welcome! Now, I'm not sure if you also watched my primer on the tariff: th-cam.com/video/ualxtLLAwcc/w-d-xo.htmlsi=t3VY8lFnO4A5mffz - might help answer your questions... Let me know if not...
@@GaryDoesSolar I missed that, thanks! I think I may switch to intelligent flux to benefit from a cheaper import and possibly better arbitrage on export. Looking forward to the next video as the review of IO Flux!
We've been on IOF since February. Worked well until April when it stopped charging. This was resolved about after about 10 days. Stopped working about 10 days ago, apparently related to an update to the Givenergy inverter. Still not working properly with minimal charge at night and generation going to the grid not battery. Come 4pm it will export the 30% charge in battery. The following is the Octopus response.... closer look at why this might be the case. We've had numerous reach outs including your details where by this seems to be a growing trend of not initiating the instruction when expected in the discharge period. As it's still a growing, developing product, I can't be sure when they'll be a fix as it's likely being fine tuned on the back of an optimisation roll out that occurred last week. I've also got a ticket raised here in team for X support so we can keep an eye on any correspondance on the devs checks when they complete, this might take a few weeks to hear back from them. They advised me I could change back to normal Flux if I didn't want to wait. So, looks like that's the only option and considering MYeo or Wonderwatt!
@@iainhenderson59I too have had weird behaviour from IOF. I was finding a decent solar generation day and sometimes my battery had not fully charged leaving me going into peak export rate with 62% battery. I notice my battery charge and discharge power constantly being adjusted too. Sometimes to less that 200w discharge rate. Here is their response from Octopus: I have continued to feed all of the information and data that you have provided me in regards to the ongoing issues we are experiencing with the battery to the Kraken Flex Department who are responsible for creating, running and monitoring the software used to run the inteligent features on the tariff. They are unfortunatly still investigating the issue and havent been able to resolve the issue as of yet. So overall, disappointed in how intelligent it is and more Glitchy Octopus Flux.
I've just had my 1st month on Intelligent Octopus Flux , We have had a good generation peroid so I am in the plus this month ( £87 ) So far I am happy with the control of my systen By Octopus Although I wouldnt mind if we could set a lower max charge point ( 100%) just for the general health of the battery , Happy to float between say 10% and 90 % so to not stress the batteries . I really love your " Infinate" Battery concept it makes real sence Although my heart would realy like to see days when I dont have to import off peak and Just use solar or Night rate power from the batteries I would love to find an app so I could compare my import , use & Generation against various tarrifs Keep up the great "man in the streeet" understandable videos Andy 5 kw gen 2 giveneryy inveter , 15 kw givenery batteries , 6.34 kw solar
Cheers Andy for the great feedback. Yeah, it does seem a bit of a black art to figure out Octopus' charging/discharging logic! I'll keep the videos coming! :-) Next one will likely be about carbon offset monitors...
Hi Gary, I do like your description of an "infinite battery". With having the same import and export rate and no losses at the metering point that's also a "perfect infinite battery". However if you combine Intelligent Go which hopefully you can get into with its six hour 7.5p/kWh import rate over winter, with say Flux over summer and even better with the home battery not needing to AC charge - that means that all your excess summer export at between 15p/kWh and 25p/kWh gets banked in your account for use in winter where you can import back two to three times the amount of energy you exported and still break even on the cost. I was calling it "seasonal storage" like a ground source heat pump can do (as distinct from a home battery's 24 hour operation) but it's also a multiplied seasonal storage which is better. Sort of two to three times infinity perhaps? Or is that still just infinity? 🤔
Hi John - great points, and yes, infinity x n might well still be infinity (although a different kind of infinity?) Lol No doubt about it though - the EV tariffs beat all the other tariffs hands down... and so I really need to get an EV as soon as possible...!!
I would try intelligent octopus flux but my battery is not supported unfortunately . I could try agile but don't feel comfortable and keep changing the export time for the battery every day. So I am quite happy with flux.
Don’t forget that the discharge period doesn’t all go to the grid. It’s split between home usage and grid. You will export all 80% if the solar at the time covers your house load but on dull days you might not export it all.
Great point, and I also determined that the three hour peak export period isn't enough to get my battery down from 100% to 20% anyway - what happens is Octopus Energy continues force-discharging until about 8 or 9pm. So, my revenue expectations will be slightly less - still good though!
@@CC_FPV So, during the sign up process, you just give Octopus Energy permission to access your GivEnergy account, and it works out everything from there 👍
Hi Gary, thanks for the video. Great content and thought provoking as always. Here's a question... Im interested in a heat pump but also intelligent Octopus Flux (currently on normal flux with a 4kwh array and 8.2kW GivEnergy battery). In your infinite battery scenario, you could generate and store up your excess/exported power over the summer months, but if you then moved onto say Octopus Cosy over the winter months, youd in theory lose that stored up energy in the grid, as the equalisation in your tarrif rates would be gone. So, would there be an arguement to stay on Intellegent Flux over the winter to make full benefit from the summer excess/exported power? Hope that makes sense? If not, thanks all the same and keep up the great work!
Hi Rob, thanks for the great feedback to me video :-) Now, if you were to move away from IOF at the end of the summer, it's not that you lose the energy 'stored up in the battery' as such, because remember you're importing that energy from the battery (grid) at the IOF rate of around 21p. So, if you switch to another tariff and can import that same energy at. cheaper rate - say overnight and store it in your real battery, then your quids in. Have I explained things correctly? If not, I'll try again...
@@GaryDoesSolar Hi Gary, thanks for replying, I don't doubt making your videos and responding to comments takes a lot of your valuable time, so I genuinely appreciate it. Yes, your response makes total sense. I guess I was just thinking that in the winter months there's likely to be higher household demand at peak times, so whilst you could simply 'take back' your stored summer month IOF exports, maybe the change in tariff would undermine any system or cost efficiency. However, as you rightly point out, I wasn't taking into account my own battery and using that for the storage of cheaper rate power in my thinking. So essentially you'd still get the benefit, arguably even better. Either way, isn't half the fun with solar thinking through all these scenarios 😄 Thanks again and I look forward to your next video. Cheers Rob
As you know, Agile has on most days numerous 30-minute slots which are cheaper than the buying price of pence per kW paid for battery storage, giving two benefits. First, as you allude to with IOF, Agile can effectively increase your battery size without any discharge losses or the need to shell out for bigger storage by taking from the grid when the price is below the pence per kW paid for battery storage. Secondly, batteries are warranted with an energy throughput & once exceeded they are out of warranty plus throughput increases degradation shrinking your battery storage capacity. This is an uninformed opinion, but, I'd keep an eye on the energy throughput once using IOF. If throughput significantly increases above your historic throughput, that's a cost that needs factoring in as it brings your batteries to their end-of-life faster. Hard to determine the price, but it's a cost nonetheless.
The Flux tariffs are not good in winter as they rely on a lot of solar. So, I’d suggest Intelligent Octopus Go if have an EV or Agile otherwise. But Agile requires a fair amount of hands-on which isn’t for everyone. See my video here about that: th-cam.com/video/MbUDGbnHHBE/w-d-xo.htmlsi=ojQ1e6jYm38YwMn7
I'm loving IOF, I do cheat it a bit. I have a 10kWp East / West split array with a 5kW inverter, so on sunny days I would suffer with quite alot of clipping. Last year I managed it with Home Assistant automations, adjusting the battery charge rate in line with solar generation to keep space in the battery to take the generation that would otherwise be clipped. On IOF Octopus charge my battery at 1.4kW during the day, which would limit the excess I can put into the battery to that amount. To counter this, I have been running my automation anyway on sunny days (updates every 20 seconds) which overrides what Octopus do and eliminates all clipping. I also manually drain the battery to 5% overnight to maximise available storage for solar the next day.
I have only a 6kW/p system and it's clipping too for 3 or so hrs a day, my battery is faulty (being fixed Tuesday), and I've had to limit charging to 1.2kW to stop the BMS going into safety protection. this has pretty much stopped my clipping until the battery fill at around 13:30 :-)
I have a similar situation. I have 8.6kWp East / West 50/50 split array with a GE 5kW Hybrid Inverter G3 and GE 9.5kWh Battery G2 installed in my garage. Using Home Assistant, and when solar generation reaches about 300w in the morning, I enable Eco mode and allow the battery to charge to 86%. This leaves space to save power that would otherwise have been clipped while keeping ahead of Octopus Energy's charging schedule, which wont charge until 3pm when they set the SOC to 93% (unless it's a poor solar day). @markrichardson8299 - do you have any issues with either your inverter or battery exceeding temperature limits, 60°C and 55°C respectively? While my garage was 21°C last week the inverter reached 67°C and battery reached its limit. I've placed a fan in the garage and I'm controlling it using Home Assistant as I feel the passive cooling is way too ineffective for these devices.
Hi Mark, yeah, I can imagine your automations and those from Octopus Energy will be fighting every 30-minutes - haha! :-) I see some good comments to your though! Might be useful input...
Great to see other energy providers putting up some credible competition with Octopus Energy. Of course it will be easy for Octopus to respond... My video is for those with solar and battery but no EV. There's no doubt about it - EV tariffs are very, very good and beat just about every other kind of tariff. Worth checking though as there might not be a requirement to actually have an EV... :-)
Hi Gary, I have been trying to install Intelligent octopus flux but my install has an issue with the giv battery. Even though I have a compatible battery model Giv5.2, it won't connect. Do you have that issue?
Hi Rich, I didn't have any issues with integrating my battery, Can you describe the issue you're having in more detail please? And also, what happened when you tried to sign up to Intelligent Octopus Flux - by the way, I recommend you only sign up via your mobile app - not the web.
@@GaryDoesSolar It seems to be unbelievable tariff for anyone generating >150% solar energy. I get a message saying my battery is not fully setup or it is not connected to the internet or that the user name and password is not correct.
@@richeel5887 I have a GivEnergy 5kW hybrid inverter and 2 x 9.5kWh batteries. You might want to reach out to your installer or GivEnergy direct if you're having issues...
@@GaryDoesSolar struggling to see how the expense of buying additional computer hardware would be offset with savings on Agile albeit I've only been on solar / battery for a few weeks. It's a huge learning curve
Been on this tariff for a couple of months now and I’m confused as to why it leaves approx 22% of battery charge during the evening and overnight period which I have no ‘home’ access to and hence draw from the grid during this period. Think I might need to discuss with Octopus or am I missing something
Good question, Glen! If I look at my charts, it stays at the 20% level right through until the next day. Octopus Energy in the T&Cs does say it has the right to change that level, and perhaps they will at some point. If you find out anything yourself if discussing with Octopus, I'd love to hear... :-)
Would love if here in the US there were options for utility providers and tariff rates. Pure monopolies and expensive here especially in California. Thankful I have solar and have NEM 2.0 … it’s been 2 years now without an electricity bill and I love the peace of mind
I hate monopolies, but I think in the USA it's always been like that (right back to Standard Oil and before, likely). Maybe it's harsh to complain, because it resulted in the most powerful nation on Earth? Would be good to see more competition in the energy sector there though...
I love the idea of the Agile Tariff, but whenever I look at typical import and export rates, it just seems like a really bad deal vs Intelligent Go, for an EV, solar & battery owner. Am I missing something?
Hi Steven, so for those with a solar installation, any increase in energy prices will generally mean a quicker payback. Correspondingly, those without will face increased energy bills (which unfortunately may be very difficult for some). I would recommend use of my utilities to determine the impact and also if a different tariff is better: Free version: garydoessolar.com/utilities/dailymodellingutility/ More capable, paid-for version: garydoessolar.com/solarazma_pro_intro/
I’ve just come away from octopus flux to e-on. They have an ev tariff of 28p from 7am to midnight and then a 7 hour window of just 6.5p export is fixed at 16.5p. I’d rather have the consistency and it’s a 1 year fixed rate, but has no exit fees if I decide to change. We have no battery, a 12kw solar system, an electric car and air source heat pump so suits our needs and usage.
Hi Daniel, yeah, it's great to see energy providers providing some competition in the market (I suspect Octopus will respond to that shortly). There's no doubt about it, EV tariffs like this are hard to beat. Can you answer me a question though? If you have no home battery, surely a lot of your home consumption (including the heat pump) is at 28p?
@@GaryDoesSolar octopus flux was 26p during the day so only 2p difference, and from 4pm to 7pm for 3 hours is 37p. So when you work the daytime tariff, then it averages out to be about the same as eon. E-on is 2.5p better on the export currently as well. The benefit for me is the 7 hour window at 6.9p. Flux was only 3 hours and more than twice the amount at 14p. We can put the dishwasher, washing machine, tumble dryer and most importantly the car on overnight. As well as the hot water and the underfloor heating downstairs is like a storage heater. It’s tiled so warm it up overnight and run the heating at a lower temp during the day. Keeps the house really warm. With having the 12kw solar system, we feed plenty back to the grid during the summer to then offset most of our winter usage. Every kw we feed in during the day gives us about 2 1/2 kWh to use at night. We have generated 78kwh today, 10kw used during the day and the rest back to the grid. Obviously everyone is different, but this definitely suits how we can maximise the tariff.
I need to watch this a couple of time to really get my head around it but.... Does Intelligent Octopus Flus do away with getting a home battery entirely? If I understand the concept of the 'infinite battery' on this tariff I can use the grid instead of a battery to smooth my generation capacity and consumption demands. Or am I off down the wrong path here?
Hi Rob, worth also watching this video that describes IOF in more detail: th-cam.com/video/ualxtLLAwcc/w-d-xo.html Now, you still need your own battery, but it doesn’t need to be a large one - it only has to be large enough to cover your home usage during the peak period (4-7pm). However, the larger your own home battery is, the greater the income you’ll get from Octopus as it remotely manages it (the arbitrage I talk about in the video you just watched. Hope that helps 👍🏻
@@GaryDoesSolar Hi Gary - another cracking and thought provoking video. I am quite new in this journey having only had our install done last month and am trying to determine which Octopus tariff would be right for me - so this is really timely. However I wondered how/if the calculations change if the DNO place an export restriction. I have a total of 11kW when the sun is shining but am restricted to 8kW, so the battery has been throttled back by 3kW (to 3kW)
@@SolarStuffAmateur Thanks - if you really want to model things, I recommend you try out my modelling utilities here: garydoessolar.com/solarazma_pro_intro/
Since I don't have solar potential then I think come July I might switch to a fixed tariff for at least a year, This is because battery prices are too high for me at the moment and looking at last year's prices during autumn and winter when the kwh price can be more expensive in the evening when space heating is required, it will be cheaper on a fixed tariff, Here's hoping battery prices keep falling then next year....What about constraints on changing tariff? You cannot go back to Agile if you leave for 9 months. Also, batteries have a total cycle count so is degrading with every charge.
Hi Daniel, yeah, I have a feeling that later this year, we're going to see a marked change in battery pricing (downwards!) So I think it won't be long before they're within your price range. And don't forget with tariffs like Intelligent Octopus Flux, you won't necessarily need a large battery, given how the tariff works: th-cam.com/video/ualxtLLAwcc/w-d-xo.htmlsi=ZvEjMv5sJt_NM3KR I'm working on a video just now about the whole switching every 6 months thing, seeing if there is a better way...
@@GaryDoesSolar don’t have your Patreon but I was curious how many panels/watts you have and your inverter capacity with a 48kWh peak day. Is there a reason you haven’t posted it for your TH-cam subscribers?
@@stephenrussell6074 Hi Stephen, my Patreon is really for people who are interested in supporting my work, and on there I regularly post videos of a more personal nature, including details about my setup etc. In summary, I have a 7kWp South-facing array with a 5kW hybrid inverter and 19kWh batteries.
@@GaryDoesSolar hi Gary, thank you, just knowing the basic figures really helps put some of your videos in context. I do understand the need for Patreon and if I were not retired I almost certainly would have joined to support you and your channel. I wonder have you considered doing a quarterly production report with how generation went and the effectiveness of your tariff choice.
@@stephenrussell6074 That's a great idea, Stephen. I'll see how I can schedule that in... Maybe not quarterly, but annually. I recommend you watch Tim & Kat's Green Walk for a monthly view of their solar and battery performance: th-cam.com/video/EEEaUJ5IvY8/w-d-xo.htmlsi=bPINgz1fcjieHpfd
I tried to change from Flux because I have a Mixergy hot water heater and a 15KW battery. I found out that only three brands of battery are compatible with Octopus at the moment. Dec 1024.
Correct. Octopus has had real problems trying to add additional manufacturers. Hence this new initiative: th-cam.com/video/-_myEpJthAc/w-d-xo.htmlsi=QMLWNOHy-KvnWzKr
I wish Octopus would do a combination of Tracker and Intelligent Go. Daily updated prices with a peak / off peak margin. With my Ohme charger, I could just plug in every day, set a price cap of some number of pence and never have to think about it.
I have an EV so decided to go for the standard Flux. Topping up an EV using intelligent can cost you a hefty sum at 21p, so you would loose a lot that you have made with draining your batteries at peak times. Topping up your car during the three hour flux period on the standard flux is still expensive, but you can make it back with sunlight.
@@fabriziooddo9245 I don't have a compatible car or charger for Intelligent Go. During the summer I don't use the car much as I have an electric scooter that I charge with the solar panels. So for me Flux i think is the better tariff? It's all swings and roundabouts really....
One of my TH-cam buddies made this video recently, which compares the tariffs. He has an EV and would have moved to Flux if IOF wasn't an option: th-cam.com/video/cZ3VsnuEM9k/w-d-xo.htmlsi=1oqvMP8x05BQJBdv
@@GaryDoesSolar Yes good video. My own workings out have suggested that i would have been about £2-£3 better off with intelligent flux if i don't charge my car much. I needed to charge twice this week so did loose a little profit. I need to make a code for intelligent go to compare too, as i am thinking of getting a (2nd hand) Tesla this year.
@@GaryDoesSolar but Go seems to be the best one as per video linked especially when covering more miles. I use 300-450 KWh on EV only and any of the Flux ones would push the import costs too high.
I hated this in the first few days as it does need to settle down. I posted on Facebook as such and was told it would settle. I was very dubious but it did and is now working well.
@@CC_FPVyes mine took a couple of days to settle at one point it actually charged during peak , I spoke to octopus tech about it. Haven’t seen this happen since.
Hi Richard, a bit too early to say as I've only been on the tariff for just over 3 weeks... That said, there's an awful lot of exporting going on, especially during peak times - and so I'm hoping to see that reflected well in the monthly bills :-)
Hi Gary. Thanks for all your wonderful vids! Although the content of this one makes me grind my teeth! I would love to be on Intelligent Flux, but have a Tesla powerwall which cannot be linked into the tariff. How annoying is that 🙄 m
You’re most welcome, Mary - that’s great feedback to receive! And you will be able to stop grinding your teeth soon-because Octopus Energy has recently reached agreement with Tesla to integrate Powerwall into their range of Intelligent tariffs. That capability should be available before long 👍🏻
Gary, the real life loses of the battery are well above 10%. My GE app shows efficiency 94% for the two years we now had the 8.2kwh battery. However, my experiments using the smart meter readings for import-export showed efficiency under 70%. Apologies for repeating myself, as I have made similar comments 2-3 times in your channel, but my numbers are consistently the same. If your battery has real life efficiency similar to mine, the revenue from the forced discharge is very likely close to zero.
Here is a chart for my own GivEnergy battery: garydoessolar.com/files/battery_stats.png This works out to an 87% efficiency. Can you tell me how you did your experiments please? I may try the same here - thanks!
@@GaryDoesSolar The method I used to calculate the efficiency of my battery: On a quiet evening 1. Empty battery 2. Turn off as many circuit breakers as possible (I left on only the WiFi router) 3. Take the import and export readings from the smart meter 4. Charge the battery to 100% 5. Take new import reading 6. Immediately fully discharge the battery with the breakers still off 7. Take the new export reading and turn breakers on. I have repeated this 5 times in two years and every time the efficiency was 67-69%. Interesting chart. Which app?
@@serraios1989 The chart is from the GivEnergy portal. Your method looks fine. I'll see if I can find more data on GivEnergy battery efficiency... troubling if the efficiency is as low as you're reading.
excellent video Gary, thank you. I've been on IOF for 2-3 wks now and my only concern is the Inverter operating temperature during the 4pm-7pm forced export period. I'm in contact with Octopus on this but have also implemented a sort of 'safety break' using Home Assistant (this inserts a 2-minute pause in discharging if Inverter temp rises above a pre-set threshold). There is a thread running on this topic (see previous comment in the list), but let me know if you want to know more. Thanks once again. Keep up the good work!
My Inverter reached 77 degrees C, and BMS 69, when inverting at 3600 with little solar. There is a new? setting under My Inverter, Remote Control, Inverter Discharge Power Percentage which can be used to limit the actual discharge rate (shown as Battery Power in Home Assistant). GivEnergy are investigating my inverter temps.
@@cheeky_farquar Wow! That is a big number! I found that I could override the discharge power (an exact wattage number not a percentage, so I will check if there are any new settings I might have overlooked) but that the Octopus algorithm would put the figure back up again within about 15mins of me doing so. That said, for the past week it seems as though changes I make at this end are not being overridden by the algorithm so often. I now have a sequence of automations in Home Assistant for both Charge and Discharge which turn on an external fan at 46C, and then start to limit the Inverter power at thresholds of 50,52,54,56,58,60. Since putting this in place about a week ago, nothing above that first 50C automation has needed to trigger, so with just the automatic fan and first power restriction at 50C, it’s looking like I’ve achieved a balance which holds things to around or just below 50C. Happy to share graphs plus the automations I’ve knocked up if of interest (I’m a real novice with Home Assistant but am pleased with the results thus far). (PS: great handle by the way! ;-) )
@@ArheddisVarkenjaab It's interesting what you have done there with your thresholds. My inverter starts at 4pm at about 40C and my fan turns on at 55, off again at 45, and is able to maintain < 55 only in combination with this new rate limiting setting (see online Portal as this is not currently available via GivTCP). Octopus won't change this setting as it's there to protect the inverter (if needed). My HA automations that limit the Octopus am charge to 85%, leaving space for solar power that would otherwise be clipped, my charge up to 100% between 3pm and 4pm, and my discharge to 75% between 4pm and 5pm all have triggers that monitor if Octopus change the Enable Charge/Discharge Schedule (from On to Off), Start or End Times, or Target SOC and then set them back again to what I want. After this Octopus are able to discharge the battery down to 20% (but this would ideally be less ofc as I do not have an EPS). For ref I have 8.6kWp solar, 5kW Hybrid Inverter G3 and 9.5kWh G2 battery.
@@cheeky_farquar thanks for the tip on that new rate limit. I’ve set mine to 85% to see if anything changes. I’m still seeing reported discharge of 3.6kW but wonder whether the Inverter is just *reporting* that figure but rate-limiting somehow. I may raise the threshold at which the fan kicks in to see if it would be easier to stabilise things at a slightly higher temp. My fan may not be up to it but I’m using a USB one as the eventual aim is to drive it from the Inverter’s USB port (I’ve already obtained a USB powered Zigbee switch that I should be able to drive the fan from). This would free up one of the two ESP mains outlets I have, whilst still ensuring the fan always has power regardless of grid supply.
Hi Gary, Great channel and i always look towards new video. However, to switch to iof you are giving up control of usage of your battery to suits grid needs, not as much mine to certain point. I bought battery to for my needs, not grids. And here comes problem. Lifespan of the battery. I know some manufacturers do offer unlimited cycles, but force discharge still put extra wear on bartery and even with unlimited cycles, capacity will much lower. My battery are not supported yet, but even if they become supported, i will still not force discharge them, on regular bases. Maybe now and them. And you havent included cost of wear and tear of your battery in your calculation. You have made video about it in the past. I dont have any electric car, so for now i do stick to normal flux and octopus go in winter. Until something better comes around. Great content, keep going.
Cheers Peter - yeah, and I guess we'll all need to form our own opinion on how to get the best use from the battery. My view would be the following: 1. However the battery is used, it must prioritise a financial return for myself. 2. At the same time, if that also help the environment, then that's welcome. 3. I don't want to be thinking about, other than to look at reports every now and again 4. I don't want the battery cycling more than once a day. That's it really, and I believe Intelligent Octopus Flux meets all those requirements :-) Thanks for your kind words about my videos! I'll keep them coming :-)
Now here is the thing. Gary doesn’t have an EV car, I do (well hybrid) but the point is it’s not the car it’s whether the charger you bought is supported by Octopus and guess what I have pod point and Octopus said they don’t support Pod Point so people ask them first depending on what make you buy. Once again the sales man sold me a dummy.
Sorry to hear you were told incorrect information - it's the reason I started this channel in fact... when I started looking into solar, it was a minefield - with a ton of misinformation out there, and a clear opportunity for cowboys to enter the market, make a ton of money, then disappear as soon as they came... Hope you're able to resolve your charger issue!
* NOTES SINCE PUBLICATION *
I forgot to make the point in the video that you currently need to have a GivEnergy battery to be on Intelligent Octopus Flux.
Not for long Gary - we will be sure to let you know when this changes. 👍🏾
@@6n7777 Great stuff! 😃
I think you need a GivEnergy Inverter, probably in addition to their battery, because I think their API talks to the inverter and not the battery.
Although, if you have a GE battery, you have a GE inverter by default 👍🏻
@@GaryDoesSolar Can you not use another manufacturers inverter with a GivEnergy battery?
Initial comments after having switched from Agile after Gary’s video, it seems to be doing what many have done using HomeAssistant and the Add On PredBat, but without the angst of learning all the ins and outs of those systems. It is apparent it uses the solar forecasts then starts charging the battery as the inverter starts clipping the output, then dumps it all down to 33% of our 8.2kWh battery. So far so good 😀
Brilliant - thanks for sharing, Neil. Will help others who are contemplating switching...
Another excellent video. It's great to see you trying these tariffs out.
As an owner of a givenergy battery I will wait with baited breath for the results.
Thanks - yeah, it's an interesting experience, seeing how they all work in practice :-) And I'm quite impressed with how Octopus is managing my battery...
@@GaryDoesSolar yep same here, no more thinking "oh damn i forgot to do full export again at 4pm"
The 1600 - 1900 hours discharge is also flexible. I’ve noticed that I’ve been discharging till 1930 ish probably to get the battery down to a reasonable recharge level. My total energy cost last month on this tariff was £13. That’s because we heat our water with gas. At the moment in May I’m £60 to the good.
As I commented originally months ago it does take a bit of getting used to, so far I am satisfied how it is performing. Keep up the good work Gary.
Thanks Ian - yeah, my battery cannot discharge down to 20% in 3 hours, so it continues discharging until 8pm or even after typically...
Another great topic Gary! Probably needs a warning up-front though that if you don't have a GivEnergy battery (and most don't) that this option is simply not available. For most of us this is something that may happen in the future, or just fades away.
Thanks, and ah yes - I should have made that point clear! I'll add a pinned comment... thanks for the heads up!
Love your video’s and I’ve been running IOF since April. I’m only just getting comfortable with them managing everything. I’m struggling with the infinite battery concept being something for the winter though.
I did occasionally miss starting or stopping Timed Discharge and this certainly relieves me of that (self-imposed) stress.
Keep up the good good 👍🏻
Thanks for your kind words about my videos. Yeah, it's a strange feeling have your battery totally controlled by a remote party, but I've found (after 3 weeks of use) that it's doing a good job, so I don't need to check up it every day now... and isn't that precisely where we want things to get to? :-)
i been on IOF since april and it working great right now :)
Fantastic! 😀
@@GaryDoesSolar i was hesitant with octopus taking control but i did forget to export at 4pm a few times last summer. for some reason they dont do full export 4-4.30pm but other than that i got no complaints
I’m now on intelligent Octopus Flux and something I noticed today on the nice sunny day I’m getting 5kW from the solar panels but collectively the battery icon says 70% full, but the IOF software has decided to send to the solar energy to the grid & home hours before the peak export is due to start. I would have thought my the three batteries would be allowed to get to 100% full before the peak export period starts.
So I drilled down on the GivEnergy battery icon to inspect the batteries storage , batt one 78%. Batt two 65%. and batt three 62%. Do you only look at the aggregate value?
I think it would be better to allow the batteries to maximise the solar energy to the full when outside the peak export rate. Is this something you can fix? Or is a GivEnergy software issue? Or perhaps you could work with them to fix the issue.
All my kit is GivEnergy, 5kW hybrid inverter, 3x 95kW batteries and new GivEnergy EV charger. Or served by solar panels.
Kind regards
Another thing that surprised me with IOF after the peak export rate, which needlessly continued beyond the peak export time, yesterday evening I noticed that 8:30pm the grid was feeding my house needs but not allowing the battery to feed the house which had about 6.7KW of collective power still stored in the GivEnergy 3x 9.5kW batteries. The residual power could have covered my house needs during that time of night which about 500watts. It’s early days but Octopus’s software seems not to make simple decisions to get the best value of stored energy in my battery array.
I've also noticed strange (unexplainable) behaviour with my IOF setup. I simply trust that Octopus Energy knows what it's doing with regard to my setup, and so I just let them get on with it. I'll make a review after 3 months say to see if there are patterns, and I might reach out to people including yourself for data in support of that, if that's ok?
Gary, good video and explaining to people how it works. I changed from Octopus Go also in Oct last year to Agile. But the Agile wasn't for me, there are nice low or 'you get money' for importing or exporting electricity but it didn't get me what I wanted. I switched in April to Octopus Intelligent Go (as I have an EV). I have also PV and batteries and have now my import down to approx 8p/kW using the 7ppkw charging over night (Scotland)
Thanks for the great feedback - yeah, it's hard for any tariff to beat a tariff like Intelligent Octopus Go - such a great off-peak import rate!
I've been on IOF for a few weeks now, and I've found it works a little differently from how you explained. I'm getting reduced power export at around 2KW between 4 30pm and 6pm then further export from 7pm to 8pm (outside of peak rate). Battery discharges to 40% and idles overnight so drawing from the grid. It starts to charge up to a limit of 1200W in the morning when it gets light from solar. I've turned off my Eddi solar diverter to maximise export income. This time Last year I was exporting 33% of my solar generation, whereas this year it is nearer to double, even when subtracting the night time draw from the grid. It looks very profitable, but it seems the battery is being used to balance grid demand rather than maximising income for the customer, after all this is the whole purpose of the product !
Thanks for sharing thus, David - I'm keeping a record of people's experiences in order to try and see if there's some kind of pattern...
An excellent and timely reminder to have another look at this tariff. It didn’t seem to make any sense when it was first released at the end of last summer.
Cheers Neil - the more I think about it, the more I really like this tariff! :-)
Been on this tariff just over a week now, and I'm pleased by both the automatic battery management, and the financial returns! I'm seeing about 33% more export revenue compared to regular Flux, and have had no clipping from my 5kW hybrid inverter thanks to Octopus charging the battery at 1.5kW from 10am-4pm. I also don't have to 'guess' what the weather will do the following day, and decide how much to charge my battery in the off-peak window beforehand.
Couple of other observations:
1. The charging pattern seems very straightforward, however they do put limits on the state of charge of the battery for each time slot, for example - charge the battery to 26% from 10:00-10:30. This can lead to my battery getting to 26% and stopping charging before 10:30, which seems a bit odd, and has the potential for a few minutes' clipping over the peak hours. It does however give my inverter a little break to cool down a bit.
2. The environmental benefits may not be the best, as often the grid is dirtiest just after 7pm, when my battery is idle and I'm drawing back from the grid. I may have to look into using my battery below 20% for the evening, just to be a bit greener.
3. The GE app shows that overnight, if my house baseload is 120W, I may be drawing 190W from the battery. However, on IOF then I'm using grid power, which draws less (just under 160W for a 120W load). I still haven't got to the bottom of this discrepancy, but I'm happier on IOF because I can use the grid overnight, and save myself about 0.5kWh losses from the battery per day.
It'll be interesting to see how charging patterns change if there's a very windy period and wholesale import rates are low - I expect the battery will charge during these times, similar to how an automated Agile system works.
This is great insight - thanks for sharing! Yeah, I'll see how your observations stack up with my own over time...
@@GaryDoesSolar following up on point 1 above... It seems that once the target SoC % is reached, the inverter will stop charging the battery UNLESS there's excess generation, in which case it will feed that into the battery, avoiding any clipping as long as there's still space in the battery. Not a cloud in the sky today and I've got a perfect curve. Lovely!
@@DarkS1m That's fantastic - I'm now going to have a look at my curve for today too!
Hi Gary, I have just switched today from Octopus Flux to the Intelligent tariff. Looking forward to see how it all works out. The beauty of Octopus is the ability to quickly switch between tariffs, so you are not tied in if something does not work out as you expected.
Hi Paul, great news and I think you’ll like Intelligent Octopus Flux 😀👍🏻
I'm now wondering whether it's best go to Normal Flux for the winter ? Any progress with your One tariff to rule them all video ?
Ah yes, you’ve not forgotten about that video either! 😀 I’ve been trying to find the right time to complete and publish it… I’ll double down on that!
Thanks Gary, I too am on Agile+fixed export and had considered going back to Flux, your video has caused me to do some envelope calculations for IOF - conclusion is that it's marginal benefit for me:
I compared two days, 12th May poor solar (30kWh generated, 9 imported) where on Agile I received £2 net profit, on IOF it's £1.10
For 14th May a good solar day (70 generated, 13 imported), Agile profit was £8.25, IOF it'd be £8.90.
Assuming more good than not good, IOF is therefore slightly better but not much, offset in part by the standing charge being 24p higher.
In your calculations of peak rate cost arbitrage I suggest you need to subtract your peak period home consumption from the export potential as you want to be taking that from the battery not the grid. On those two days for me it's 2.8kWh peak consumption that would come off my theoretical best case 10.7kWh peak period export. If Octopus doesn't export the most it can then profit will of course be lower.
Interesting stuff though
Hi Geoffrey, thanks for laying out your analysis on this. Can't find fault with it.
The way it discharges is to set the discharge on your battery to the amount it would take to get from 100 to 20% in 3 hours. This is then your discharge rate split between export and house load. So on no solar days you won’t export the full 80% but days when your solar will cover the load you will get the full 80% out.
My battery discharges at 2571 watts. So on dull days you will import during peak times if your house load > solar + 2571.
That sounds bad when you have a battery but it does balance out. You will always deplete your battery buy 80% but the house load will be taken off this if no solar.
On the other hand on very good solar days you’ll export up to the max inverter amount. What I haven’t experienced yet is if the 2571 + solar is above 5 kw in my case. I’m guessing the solar will go out no matter what and you could end up with more than 20% at 1900 hours.
That's great insight into how the remote management works - Thanks for sharing!
If your solar + battery export exceeds 5kW then I can confirm it lowers the battery discharge rate, and you may be left with more than 20% by 19:00, which is then discharged at a lower power until it gets to 20%
How are you finding inverter temperatures? I’m seeing 60+ during the forced discharge period. So high in fact that I’ve resorted to using a Home Assistant automation to impose a 2min pause if it reaches a preset threshold. I’ve reported what I’m seeing to Octopus and they’re looking into it but I’d be in interested to know if anyone else is seeing similar behaviour.
@@ArheddisVarkenjaab yep, regularly exceeding 60 degrees for the discharge period. In fact, over the warm weekend I was peaking above 70 degrees. I've improved ventilation to the inverter, but may invest in a small fan once the weather is consistently warmer. However, the GPU on my laptop sits around 60 degrees for hours - aren't modern electronics designed to work at such temps? Should we even be concerned about a couple of hours at 60-70 degrees?
@@DarkS1m Thanks for the feedback. My concerns are (a) it *feels* bloody hot! 🙂 and (b) I'm sure I read somewhere that 60C is the max operating temp and I don't want to risk voiding my GE warranty (I'm also pretty sure that the small print in GE's T's & C's carries a disclaimer on smart tariffs where the equipment is being managed by a 3rd party). I have contacted Octopus again and asked them to pass info back to their Tech team so will keep you posted.
Hi Gary, fantastic video as usual. I've been on IOF for the last few months, and for the most part it works great as you say. However I think it can be more intelligent. I have noticed on a sunny day, when my PV can generate 7.5kw, there can be 3.0kw charging of the battery and 4kw export with baseload of 0.5kw. Fantastic !!! But I have noticed the battery being idle or worse actually charging from the grid during the morning of a forecasted sunny day. My theory is that it may be possible to have the battery full by lunch time. With the sun still shining I will still export at 4kw with 0.5kw baseload but the battery can't charge as it is full, with generation at about 7.5kw, my system will be clipped by 3.5kw / hour. If the system was "more intelligent" and took a sunny forecast in to account it would not import to charge the battery in the morning, as it knows the charging will be by solar allowing maximum useage of the PV generation. Now I haven't actually seen this happen yet, but I'd be interested to know if other people have seen this.
Thanks John - I'm keeping a record of people's experiences in order to try and see if there is a pattern...
I have the same problem with Octopus charging the battery to 100% in the early hours leaving no room to prevent clipping. For now I have implemented a Home Assistant automation to stop their charge at 85% and another automation to top up the battery to 100% between 3pm and 4pm. This allows me to top up the battery by 10% to 15% from solar power that would otherwise be lost due to clipping. I also have 1 more automation that discharges the battery to 75% between 4pm and 5pm because Octopus do not start exporting until 5pm and, because solar production limits the achievable discharge rate, it often only reaches a SOC of ~50% by 7pm.
@@cheeky_farquar Presumably your home assistant automation is running along side IOF and has priority then ???
@@johnyogiburr2881 I've since moved to Octopus Flux, as Octopus were not happy with my automations overriding (fighting) their automations, but the automations used to monitor changes to GivTCP SOC, Charge Target SOC, Start and End Times etc and adjust them if Octopus changed them. However I was only aligning the charge and discharge with what the Octopus FAQs said it would do. For example the FAQs say "Your battery will discharge to the grid 4 - 7pm to take advantage of Octopus Flux’s high export rates" but they would not starting discharging (at full rate) until 5pm and would, more often than not, fail to discharge much below 50% SOC. If it was a bad solar day I could be importing at peak rate as Eco would be off and the battery is idle. They would then try to discharge at 8:30pm at off peak rates (which is a loss for me if you factor in the costs of charging and discharging the battery). They say they will "charge up using the greenest and cheapest energy - some of this will come from your solar and some from the grid" but they would always try to charge to 100% by 5am - no solar generation at that time so the battery is fully charge from imported electricity. And, as there is no battery space left to rescue clipped power, on a nice day I could loose between 1 and 2kWh of clipped energy (if I did not stop their overnight charge at 85%). If IOF worked as per their FAQs and if it made allowances for clipped power then this would be a good tariff.
The maths confirm this is the right switch for you, and then back onto Agile/Go in Oct. I did look at this tariff, but based on my April data, I would have been worse off on Flux rather than stick with Agile. I will re-check at the end of May and see if this now swings more in favour of Flux as I don't have historical data to use from last year. Thanks for another useful video.
Cheers John, and I'm interested to hear what your repeat analysis turns up...
@@GaryDoesSolar May wasn't the best on Agile (Apr was -£45) and I am on track to just break even. I think I will switch to Intelligent Flux at the end of the month. Have you experienced any issues with battery export stopping early and drawing rom the grid in last 15-30 mins of the peak period?
@@JohnThomas-ey1hx Because my battery capacity is high (19kWh) and maximum discharge rate comparatively low (3.6kW) during the 4-7pm period, it typically only manages to discharge down to 40/50%. This means it carries on discharging between 7 and 9pm (perhaps with one or two breaks). I don't think I've ever see grid draw during the peak period though, unless my home usage has been higher than 3.6kW at the time.
When the role out allows more than 'Give Energy' battery systems I'm going to switch. I'm on the standard flux tarrif at the moment but want to swap ASAP...
Great Channel Gary keep up the good content 👍
Thanks for your kind words! :-) Yeah, I'm looking forward to seeing which other inverters/batteries are supported over time. And hopefully, tariffs like Intelligent Octopus Flux encourage manufacturers to open up their platforms in support...
Is the Give Energy Battery the Octopus go to when they install panels and battery?? Tesla were very good before they chose to leave this market, Like you I fancy flux for the summer and agile for the winter, for me I want passive income to support my retirement just looks easy ??
@@graemeshort1928 I don't know actually, but it would make sense for Octopus to promote GivEnergy to the customer for all the extra benefits (including IOF)... It's early days for me on IOF, but so far, I'm very happy with it - and for those with far less annual home usage than generation, it should be a huge win!! 😃
@@graemeshort1928 Wile I have no doubt Octopus is one of the better utilities it is a business and making money is its raison d'etre. The reason it supports Give Energy is almost certainly a financial one, i.e. a kickback or commission, nothing wrong with that. If you want passive income, there are almost certainly better ways than a solar system. People are inherently scared of equities but history has shown that over time there is little that beats them. For instance in the US stocks have outperformed house prices substantially over the last 30 years
I enjoyed the Agile tariff through the winter (changing the settings on the inverter every day according to rates) especially the negative pricing times but at the end of March changed to Intelligent Go and life is a lot simpler. At 5.30 the house battery is 100% and after an hour or so of light I'm exporting and earning. All car charging is at 7.5p and all export earns 15p. I'm happy with that.
Would be interested in IOF when my Fox battery becomes compatible.
Yeah, I do like Agile! :-)
I signed up to this tariff few days ago, but I still fail to understand the reason why it stops discharge at 20% and never uses the 20% it as it leaves my battery mode as Eco (Paused) after discharge. I see no reason why it can't just discharge down to your predefined reserve SOC (mine is 4% default reserved for power cut)?
Hi John, I don't know why they've chosen 20% either - perhaps it's to leave sufficient energy in the battery in case there is a power cut? Or perhaps it's to preserve the life of the battery? Not sure...
FYI: I live in Spain and have contracted Octopus Relax Tariff. (that's how it's called over here).
I pay 0,1240 €/kWh + VAT (21%) (10.67 pence / kWh+VAT).
For a household of 2, we consumed about 300kWh in March, and will probably use about 3000 kWh this year. Just to compare with your (Gary) 7200kWh. I assume you have electric immersion heater. I heat water with nat gas. And we of course have milder climate.
Actually, we have gas heating for water - so I just can’t explain why our usage is so high! Maybe the kids are mining crypto 24/7 on their machines!
curious how this would compare to intelligent octopus that I’m on currently (which is gated behind a requirement for an EV). It opens up 15p export and with 7.5p offpeak for 6 hours so ideal for EV charging and battery charging. I can run the house from the battery so my ‘average’ rate is 8.5-9p, but in the summer I can get 15p export so arbitrage of 7.5p all day - plus my battery will likely be topped up anyway so I can still choose to force discharge at a similar arbitrage rate?
Yeah, you're right - I don't think any tariff on the market today can beat an EV tariff like Intelligent Octopus Go - it's so good! And it might be getting even better soon now that there is competition from Eon with their Drive V3 tariff..
Checking today figures very sunny I imported 3.7kwh and exported 25.37kwh. I switched to IOF early last month. Their charge and discharge control took a couple of days to sort, now by 4pm I’m close to 100% in battery, it stops exporting at 21% and has been very reliable. Sure I’m now making the most from my system
10.8kwp 19kwh batteries
I do GO over winter as use a granny charger for my hybrid.
Sounds great, John! :-)
Hello Gary,
I am currently on intelligent Flux at the moment. Just to let you know that not everyday Octopus are discharging for full 3 hours at peak rate also some days finishing at 18:30 which then puts you drawing back from the grid at peak rate when my battery has over 50% left. I think this needs to be factored into your calculation.
Alan.
Cheers Alan - I'm keeping a record of people's experiences in order to try and see if there's some kind of pattern...
Currently 6kW/p on Agile import with Fixed outgoing, consuming nothing and exporting ~20kWh a day (May) ~ £2.50 net profit a day to us. We've a 9.5kW battery and did consider a 2nd battery but with a household use of ~12kWh a day we couldn't justify the cost and payback times for a 2nd being only 9.5kW*15p a day or about 7 years.
Seriously thinking about Intelligent Octopus Flux for a 6 month trial to leverage a quicker payback time, and negate the need/desire to have a 2nd battery, just a little concerned if it voids or limits the GivEnergy battery warranty with it's terms around grid-trading.
Really like the idea of loaning units at 22.73p/30.31p (my area) to the grid to store for me, as over the summer we tend to use a bit more electricity at night with bedroom aircon and I'm not sure the 9.5kW battery will fully support 21:00 to 07:00.
My only niggle (and it a my mindset one) is exporting most of my battery at 4pm-7pm meaning I'll be importing in the later evening/night where currently I'm self sufficient.
Hi Andrew, thanks for these great points! On your niggle, remember though that even though you'll be exporting, the battery will cover all your house load (at least up to the output limit of your inverter) first...
Thanks, Gary - very helpful to get my head around possibilities. I don't have supported batteries (PureDrive II) but put them on the list with Octopus. Currently on Octopus Flux and doing my own arbitrage for the summer - which is going well so far. £100 in revenue since March, as my production is much greater than usage and I have found a manual force charge setting that works most days. Looking forward to hearing about the "One Tariff" approach 👍
Cheers Adrian - sounds like you're doing really well with Octopus Flux! Would be great to see further inverters/batteries being added to IOF over time. I really like the fact that Octopus Energy is able to use a massive array of batteries as a Virtual Power Plant (VPP) to help our National Grid out...
@@GaryDoesSolar absolutely, thank you 👍 I will be tempted with the power pack tariff for evs as well, the thought of having the capacity of the car battery available to the grid and free miles sounds quite tempting. Sadly it seems that the national Grid has vetoed the sale of the only charger capable of doing it at the moment☹
You always raise good points and I know you want to test this tariff, this seems fair... but I just cannot see anything that beats Intelligent Octopus Go, so for those that can this just seems to win out regardless. You just are never going to beat a tariff that lets you buy for 7.5p in the cheap window and then export at twice that rate all through the day... so from an infinity battery perspective for every 1kWh you store in the battery you get to draw back 2kWh. I liked the idea of Agile for when the power is really cheap, but in all honesty 98% of the time it rarely drops anywhere near the Go rate of 7.5p let alone go negative, Go being guaranteed each day for 6 hours minimum... I say minimum, because when you connect your car up at say at 18:00, Octopus will more often than not reduce the tariff then and there to the 7.5p rate all the way through till the morning... yet on Agile you are just left paying the higher rate. It is also simple to set and forget and just get on with life :)
I can't argue with you - IOG is a really good tariff - 7.5p is an incredibly low rate, and I hope to be on that tariff later this year, if all goes will with acquiring an EV! :-) Thinking about my next video then, "one tariff to rule them all", do you think IOG is a candidate for the mass market? I'm not sure that tariff can scale, as it must already be loss-making, no? Interesting times ahead, I think...
@GaryDoesSolar I notice that despite the agile rates they charge customers, what appears to be the wholesale rate is in fact a lot lower... and even lower than the 7.5p rate. So in this regard they are still not loosing money... what takes it away from the mass market "currently" is the fact you pretty much HAVE to have a battery to make any sort of viable use of it. To make it work you absolutely have to avoid 100% the normal day rate... It is like only having a tariff that lets you connect to the grid for 6 hours a day.
@@GaryDoesSolar there are a number of restrictions to 'everyone' being on IOG - they need a compatable charger and/or an EV and a domestic battery to benefit from it. While this is probably a lot of your viewers, it probably isn't a lot of Octopus customers!
@@FFVoyager That's a fair point. So let's fast forward 10 years then, then there are more people driving EVs than not. I'd like to think that EV charging standards will have evolved such that all chargers are compatible by then. In addition, home batteries should be very inexpensive then and far safer for the home - perhaps to the point where >30% homes have them. If those assumptions are anywhere near correct, then I'm wondering what that does for the economics for Octopus providing such a tariff...You've got me thinking...
Good video. I’ve been on the tariff since October. You missed two points. Firstly, a percentage of solar generation will be at peak export which increases export income. Secondly, in the summer the battery is charged evenly between 10am and 4pm. This could help some some users with clipping and as such get more generation.
Thanks Robert, and very good points!
So much to consider. I am just about to buy a new house and have the option of battery choice. It has a sizeable array at 9kw almost facing south with a 5kw air source and associated hot water tank. What battery to get? Much of the time i will be away and the house on short term let so it all needs to be simple distance management.
I think these battery-related videos will be useful to you: th-cam.com/play/PLJy1q7saPP7RmvA8skAZeRIJBM3bFhUZ1.html
Just wondering about GivEnergy's GivBack tarrif. They say it is NOT supported if you are on Intelligent flux. GivBack stands to make a huge payback in the winter, so will it be that by switching fromFlux to intelligent flux I end up loosing out by not being able to be part of GivBack? (and also the secondary newer tariff) It would be good to know your thoughts..
Essentially, you can only have one remote entity controlling your battery at a time. In the case of GivBack, it's GivEnergy and in the case of Intelligent Octopus Flux, it's Octopus Energy.
I have a growatt battery and the intelligent octopus flux is only available if you have a givenergy battery. What would be the best tarrif? Im guessing the standard Octopus flux or the agile? Im unsure about the agile tariffrealistically?
Hi Louise, it’s not an easy answer as it depends on a number of factors including daily usage. Worth watching this video I made which explains everything you need to know about the Agile tariff in order to make a decision: th-cam.com/video/MbUDGbnHHBE/w-d-xo.htmlsi=19_L5jGTOHaUK3fb
I've switched from 'unintelligent' Flux to Intelligent - it is a much better deal!
Not worried about Octopus' use of my battery - seems to be much gentler and more nuanced than the default Givenergy set-up.
Had Flux for the winter as we didn't have an EV.
Now we have an EV we can hopefully switch to Intelligent Go in Autumn. If the Givenergy EV charger is integrated (MGs are not integrated with Octopus so it has to be the home unit). Otherwise it will be a case of calculating when Traditional Go becomes better than Intelligent Flux.
Thanks for sharing, Doug - great that IOF is working out for you, and yeah, switching to IOG in the winter looks to be a great move! :-)
Other than not having GivEnergy my concern with this tariff is not having a large enough battery. You need at least 15 kW of storage to be able to have the battery exporting for the full three hour peak period otherwise you will have to buy in some energy at peak rate.
I prefer Flux. It would be interesting to see your calculations for how much better Intelligent Flux is than regular flux? Less than 5% of my energy is being used at anything other than the cheap overnight rate.
Worth looking at this video from Tim & Kat's channel: th-cam.com/video/xz8XRwHcgC4/w-d-xo.htmlsi=pewZOJC5XDA3Ij0f
Great video but you forgot to mention IOF is only compatible with Givenergy at present
Thanks - and you’re right. I’ve now added a pinned comment to that effect 👍🏻
Hi Gary - I’m currently on Octopus Agile with a 9.5kW GivEnergy battery, but with an EV and GivEnergy charger. Can’t get onto Intelligent Go because the charger and car aren’t compatible and don’t want to be on Octopus Go as the export is so low. Would Intelligent Flux work for EV users do you think?
Hi Gavin, worth you watching this video from Tim & Kat's Green Walk, where Tim compares various tariffs over the year for EV users: th-cam.com/video/xz8XRwHcgC4/w-d-xo.html
Hi Gary Looks as if with this option the smallest battery that will qualify for this tariff is the best option in VFM and payback time terms
I think you're right - the main benefit of the tariff is the parity of import/export rates. If you maximise your solar array and minimise your battery size just to get onto IOF, then that is surely the best combination for ROI
Yeah, although if you have a larger battery, the off-peak import / peak export price arbitrage might come into play... but would it cover the cost of that larger battery though? Probably not...
@@GaryDoesSolar Our usage is about 11kWh per day so even a small battery would cover our peak rate use and the proposed solar array (16 panels with a 5kW inverter) would cover this easily with export in the summer. When we are away we use about 3kWh so a lot of potential export. The only problem is needing a Give Energy battery. My plan was to use Growatt in 3.3KWh modules. One might be enough. Hopefully Octopus will have increased the range of batteries to qualify or even waived it altogether so the Grid battery will carry the whole load.
Thanks again for the interesting video. I should be on this tariff from 20th May as that's when my Solar 12 panel array and Givenergy 5.2 KWh battery. I will need to get my head around the spreadsheets and at some point would like to compare notes with you Gary
Just to let you know, Intelligent Flux requires you to have completed the process for setting up an export tariff first. Octopus say this can take up to 6 weeks, but mine took 2 weeks from date of install last month. This means you won't be able to get onto this tariff (or earn anything for export) immediately after install, and will first have to apply for another export tariff such as regular Flux, which requires submission of a couple of certificates that should be supplied promptly by your installer (MCS/FlexiORB cert and the DNO export confirmation).
Sure thing James - would be great to hear how you get on with the tariff!
I’ve been on OIF for a few months now having switched from bog standard flux. I’m broadly happy with it but there is a downside. In Suffolk we are fortunate to benefit from Octopus Power Ups but OIF isn’t intelligent enough to charge your batteries during these 2-3 hr periods. I’m yet to raise it with them - seems daft as you have zero control to make any changes!
Agreed - these services should be connected, and their Octopus' Kraken platform is easily up to that job!
Thanks for this video! There's precious little guidance out there on this tariff. I'm finding that IO Flux is force importing a full battery from the grid overnight, regardless of the solar forecast. Normally this time of year on a sunny day, solar would fill my battery and export plenty. Import rates are not cheap at 24p, so I don't think this is actually that more economical than Agile, even excluding battery wear. Especially with a higher standing charge, and being unable to run the battery past 20% floor limit. Thoughts?
Hi Sam, you're most welcome! Now, I'm not sure if you also watched my primer on the tariff: th-cam.com/video/ualxtLLAwcc/w-d-xo.htmlsi=t3VY8lFnO4A5mffz - might help answer your questions... Let me know if not...
@@GaryDoesSolar I missed that, thanks! I think I may switch to intelligent flux to benefit from a cheaper import and possibly better arbitrage on export. Looking forward to the next video as the review of IO Flux!
We've been on IOF since February. Worked well until April when it stopped charging. This was resolved about after about 10 days. Stopped working about 10 days ago, apparently related to an update to the Givenergy inverter. Still not working properly with minimal charge at night and generation going to the grid not battery. Come 4pm it will export the 30% charge in battery. The following is the Octopus response....
closer look at why this might be the case. We've had numerous reach outs including your details where by this seems to be a growing trend of not initiating the instruction when expected in the discharge period.
As it's still a growing, developing product, I can't be sure when they'll be a fix as it's likely being fine tuned on the back of an optimisation roll out that occurred last week. I've also got a ticket raised here in team for X support so we can keep an eye on any correspondance on the devs checks when they complete, this might take a few weeks to hear back from them.
They advised me I could change back to normal Flux if I didn't want to wait. So, looks like that's the only option and considering MYeo or Wonderwatt!
@@iainhenderson59I too have had weird behaviour from IOF. I was finding a decent solar generation day and sometimes my battery had not fully charged leaving me going into peak export rate with 62% battery. I notice my battery charge and discharge power constantly being adjusted too. Sometimes to less that 200w discharge rate.
Here is their response from Octopus:
I have continued to feed all of the information and data that you have provided me in regards to the ongoing issues we are experiencing with the battery to the Kraken Flex Department who are responsible for creating, running and monitoring the software used to run the inteligent features on the tariff. They are unfortunatly still investigating the issue and havent been able to resolve the issue as of yet.
So overall, disappointed in how intelligent it is and more Glitchy Octopus Flux.
I've just had my 1st month on Intelligent Octopus Flux , We have had a good generation peroid so I am in the plus this month ( £87 )
So far I am happy with the control of my systen By Octopus Although I wouldnt mind if we could set a lower max charge point ( 100%)
just for the general health of the battery , Happy to float between say 10% and 90 % so to not stress the batteries .
I really love your " Infinate" Battery concept it makes real sence Although my heart would realy like to see days when I dont have to import off peak and Just use solar or Night rate power from the batteries
I would love to find an app so I could compare my import , use & Generation against various tarrifs
Keep up the great "man in the streeet" understandable videos
Andy
5 kw gen 2 giveneryy inveter , 15 kw givenery batteries , 6.34 kw solar
Cheers Andy for the great feedback. Yeah, it does seem a bit of a black art to figure out Octopus' charging/discharging logic! I'll keep the videos coming! :-) Next one will likely be about carbon offset monitors...
Hi Gary,
I do like your description of an "infinite battery".
With having the same import and export rate and no losses at the metering point that's also a "perfect infinite battery".
However if you combine Intelligent Go which hopefully you can get into with its six hour 7.5p/kWh import rate over winter, with say Flux over summer and even better with the home battery not needing to AC charge - that means that all your excess summer export at between 15p/kWh and 25p/kWh gets banked in your account for use in winter where you can import back two to three times the amount of energy you exported and still break even on the cost. I was calling it "seasonal storage" like a ground source heat pump can do (as distinct from a home battery's 24 hour operation) but it's also a multiplied seasonal storage which is better. Sort of two to three times infinity perhaps? Or is that still just infinity? 🤔
Hi John - great points, and yes, infinity x n might well still be infinity (although a different kind of infinity?) Lol
No doubt about it though - the EV tariffs beat all the other tariffs hands down... and so I really need to get an EV as soon as possible...!!
I would try intelligent octopus flux but my battery is not supported unfortunately .
I could try agile but don't feel comfortable and keep changing the export time for the battery every day.
So I am quite happy with flux.
Yeah, Octopus Flux is a great tariff - and if I didn't have a GivEnergy battery, I'd likely have switched back to that...
Don’t forget that the discharge period doesn’t all go to the grid. It’s split between home usage and grid. You will export all 80% if the solar at the time covers your house load but on dull days you might not export it all.
Great point, and I also determined that the three hour peak export period isn't enough to get my battery down from 100% to 20% anyway - what happens is Octopus Energy continues force-discharging until about 8 or 9pm.
So, my revenue expectations will be slightly less - still good though!
@@GaryDoesSolar how big is your battery then and whats the discharge rate max?
@@CC_FPV My battery setup is 19kWh (2 x 9.5kWh GivEnergy batteries) with a total discharge rate of 3.6kW (I wish it were more!)
@@GaryDoesSolar have you managed to assign both to IOF? I thought they would only work with one battery.
@@CC_FPV So, during the sign up process, you just give Octopus Energy permission to access your GivEnergy account, and it works out everything from there 👍
Hi Gary, thanks for the video. Great content and thought provoking as always. Here's a question... Im interested in a heat pump but also intelligent Octopus Flux (currently on normal flux with a 4kwh array and 8.2kW GivEnergy battery). In your infinite battery scenario, you could generate and store up your excess/exported power over the summer months, but if you then moved onto say Octopus Cosy over the winter months, youd in theory lose that stored up energy in the grid, as the equalisation in your tarrif rates would be gone. So, would there be an arguement to stay on Intellegent Flux over the winter to make full benefit from the summer excess/exported power? Hope that makes sense? If not, thanks all the same and keep up the great work!
Hi Rob, thanks for the great feedback to me video :-)
Now, if you were to move away from IOF at the end of the summer, it's not that you lose the energy 'stored up in the battery' as such, because remember you're importing that energy from the battery (grid) at the IOF rate of around 21p. So, if you switch to another tariff and can import that same energy at. cheaper rate - say overnight and store it in your real battery, then your quids in. Have I explained things correctly? If not, I'll try again...
@@GaryDoesSolar Hi Gary, thanks for replying, I don't doubt making your videos and responding to comments takes a lot of your valuable time, so I genuinely appreciate it.
Yes, your response makes total sense. I guess I was just thinking that in the winter months there's likely to be higher household demand at peak times, so whilst you could simply 'take back' your stored summer month IOF exports, maybe the change in tariff would undermine any system or cost efficiency. However, as you rightly point out, I wasn't taking into account my own battery and using that for the storage of cheaper rate power in my thinking. So essentially you'd still get the benefit, arguably even better.
Either way, isn't half the fun with solar thinking through all these scenarios 😄
Thanks again and I look forward to your next video. Cheers Rob
hey, be great if you could do a video in a month or 2 showing if your summer on OIFlux would have beaten regular Flux for £. Regards
Yeah, good idea!
As you know, Agile has on most days numerous 30-minute slots which are cheaper than the buying price of pence per kW paid for battery storage, giving two benefits. First, as you allude to with IOF, Agile can effectively increase your battery size without any discharge losses or the need to shell out for bigger storage by taking from the grid when the price is below the pence per kW paid for battery storage. Secondly, batteries are warranted with an energy throughput & once exceeded they are out of warranty plus throughput increases degradation shrinking your battery storage capacity. This is an uninformed opinion, but, I'd keep an eye on the energy throughput once using IOF. If throughput significantly increases above your historic throughput, that's a cost that needs factoring in as it brings your batteries to their end-of-life faster. Hard to determine the price, but it's a cost nonetheless.
Great points!
Which is the best tariff for the winter? Is the intelligent flux any good?
The Flux tariffs are not good in winter as they rely on a lot of solar. So, I’d suggest Intelligent Octopus Go if have an EV or Agile otherwise. But Agile requires a fair amount of hands-on which isn’t for everyone. See my video here about that:
th-cam.com/video/MbUDGbnHHBE/w-d-xo.htmlsi=ojQ1e6jYm38YwMn7
@@GaryDoesSolar Thanks Gary. I also have a 19kWh battery so would this still be the case?
@@irfanyr Yeah, that would still be the case (in my humble opinion anyway) 👍
@@GaryDoesSolar Thanks Gary. Always helpful as usual. Keep up the good work.
I'm loving IOF, I do cheat it a bit. I have a 10kWp East / West split array with a 5kW inverter, so on sunny days I would suffer with quite alot of clipping. Last year I managed it with Home Assistant automations, adjusting the battery charge rate in line with solar generation to keep space in the battery to take the generation that would otherwise be clipped. On IOF Octopus charge my battery at 1.4kW during the day, which would limit the excess I can put into the battery to that amount. To counter this, I have been running my automation anyway on sunny days (updates every 20 seconds) which overrides what Octopus do and eliminates all clipping. I also manually drain the battery to 5% overnight to maximise available storage for solar the next day.
I have only a 6kW/p system and it's clipping too for 3 or so hrs a day, my battery is faulty (being fixed Tuesday), and I've had to limit charging to 1.2kW to stop the BMS going into safety protection. this has pretty much stopped my clipping until the battery fill at around 13:30 :-)
I have a similar situation. I have 8.6kWp East / West 50/50 split array with a GE 5kW Hybrid Inverter G3 and GE 9.5kWh Battery G2 installed in my garage. Using Home Assistant, and when solar generation reaches about 300w in the morning, I enable Eco mode and allow the battery to charge to 86%. This leaves space to save power that would otherwise have been clipped while keeping ahead of Octopus Energy's charging schedule, which wont charge until 3pm when they set the SOC to 93% (unless it's a poor solar day).
@markrichardson8299 - do you have any issues with either your inverter or battery exceeding temperature limits, 60°C and 55°C respectively? While my garage was 21°C last week the inverter reached 67°C and battery reached its limit. I've placed a fan in the garage and I'm controlling it using Home Assistant as I feel the passive cooling is way too ineffective for these devices.
Hi Mark, yeah, I can imagine your automations and those from Octopus Energy will be fighting every 30-minutes - haha! :-) I see some good comments to your though! Might be useful input...
@@cheeky_farquar No temp issues, I have a Gen 2 inverter, I hear the Gen 3 runs hotter.
Eon offers 6.9p/kwh between 00:00-07:00 and 16.5p/kwh for export
Great to see other energy providers putting up some credible competition with Octopus Energy. Of course it will be easy for Octopus to respond...
My video is for those with solar and battery but no EV. There's no doubt about it - EV tariffs are very, very good and beat just about every other kind of tariff. Worth checking though as there might not be a requirement to actually have an EV... :-)
I also changed to it last month and think it's good as I don't have to manage anything
Cheers Richard - and I think that's one the tariff's greatest selling points in fact! :-)
Hi Gary, I have been trying to install Intelligent octopus flux but my install has an issue with the giv battery. Even though I have a compatible battery model Giv5.2, it won't connect. Do you have that issue?
Hi Rich, I didn't have any issues with integrating my battery, Can you describe the issue you're having in more detail please? And also, what happened when you tried to sign up to Intelligent Octopus Flux - by the way, I recommend you only sign up via your mobile app - not the web.
@@GaryDoesSolar It seems to be unbelievable tariff for anyone generating >150% solar energy. I get a message saying my battery is not fully setup or it is not connected to the internet or that the user name and password is not correct.
What Giv battery / inverter did you get it working on?
@@richeel5887 I have a GivEnergy 5kW hybrid inverter and 2 x 9.5kWh batteries. You might want to reach out to your installer or GivEnergy direct if you're having issues...
would you now change to Flux (or even Agile) over the winter and revert to Intelligent Flux in the Spring, as I am reading that from others on line?
As I have an EV now, I cannot find a tariff better than Intelligent Octopus Go. Otherwise, I’d likely move to Agile over the winter 👍🏻
@@GaryDoesSolar struggling to see how the expense of buying additional computer hardware would be offset with savings on Agile albeit I've only been on solar / battery for a few weeks. It's a huge learning curve
Been on this tariff for a couple of months now and I’m confused as to why it leaves approx 22% of battery charge during the evening and overnight period which I have no ‘home’ access to and hence draw from the grid during this period. Think I might need to discuss with Octopus or am I missing something
Good question, Glen! If I look at my charts, it stays at the 20% level right through until the next day. Octopus Energy in the T&Cs does say it has the right to change that level, and perhaps they will at some point. If you find out anything yourself if discussing with Octopus, I'd love to hear... :-)
Would love if here in the US there were options for utility providers and tariff rates. Pure monopolies and expensive here especially in California. Thankful I have solar and have NEM 2.0 … it’s been 2 years now without an electricity bill and I love the peace of mind
I hate monopolies, but I think in the USA it's always been like that (right back to Standard Oil and before, likely). Maybe it's harsh to complain, because it resulted in the most powerful nation on Earth?
Would be good to see more competition in the energy sector there though...
I love the idea of the Agile Tariff, but whenever I look at typical import and export rates, it just seems like a really bad deal vs Intelligent Go, for an EV, solar & battery owner.
Am I missing something?
Hi Andrew, you're not wrong. I don't think any of the Octopus tariffs beat Intelligent Octopus Go (IOG)... it's very, very good!
Where do we go from here with the new rates heading upwards?
Hi Steven, so for those with a solar installation, any increase in energy prices will generally mean a quicker payback. Correspondingly, those without will face increased energy bills (which unfortunately may be very difficult for some).
I would recommend use of my utilities to determine the impact and also if a different tariff is better:
Free version:
garydoessolar.com/utilities/dailymodellingutility/
More capable, paid-for version:
garydoessolar.com/solarazma_pro_intro/
I’ve just come away from octopus flux to e-on. They have an ev tariff of 28p from 7am to midnight and then a 7 hour window of just 6.5p export is fixed at 16.5p. I’d rather have the consistency and it’s a 1 year fixed rate, but has no exit fees if I decide to change. We have no battery, a 12kw solar system, an electric car and air source heat pump so suits our needs and usage.
Hi Daniel, yeah, it's great to see energy providers providing some competition in the market (I suspect Octopus will respond to that shortly).
There's no doubt about it, EV tariffs like this are hard to beat.
Can you answer me a question though? If you have no home battery, surely a lot of your home consumption (including the heat pump) is at 28p?
@@GaryDoesSolar octopus flux was 26p during the day so only 2p difference, and from 4pm to 7pm for 3 hours is 37p. So when you work the daytime tariff, then it averages out to be about the same as eon. E-on is 2.5p better on the export currently as well. The benefit for me is the 7 hour window at 6.9p. Flux was only 3 hours and more than twice the amount at 14p. We can put the dishwasher, washing machine, tumble dryer and most importantly the car on overnight. As well as the hot water and the underfloor heating downstairs is like a storage heater. It’s tiled so warm it up overnight and run the heating at a lower temp during the day. Keeps the house really warm. With having the 12kw solar system, we feed plenty back to the grid during the summer to then offset most of our winter usage. Every kw we feed in during the day gives us about 2 1/2 kWh to use at night. We have generated 78kwh today, 10kw used during the day and the rest back to the grid. Obviously everyone is different, but this definitely suits how we can maximise the tariff.
@@danielsage1354 Ah ok, got it - thanks for the extra detail - great stuff! 😃👍
I need to watch this a couple of time to really get my head around it but.... Does Intelligent Octopus Flus do away with getting a home battery entirely? If I understand the concept of the 'infinite battery' on this tariff I can use the grid instead of a battery to smooth my generation capacity and consumption demands. Or am I off down the wrong path here?
Hi Rob, worth also watching this video that describes IOF in more detail: th-cam.com/video/ualxtLLAwcc/w-d-xo.html
Now, you still need your own battery, but it doesn’t need to be a large one - it only has to be large enough to cover your home usage during the peak period (4-7pm). However, the larger your own home battery is, the greater the income you’ll get from Octopus as it remotely manages it (the arbitrage I talk about in the video you just watched.
Hope that helps 👍🏻
@@GaryDoesSolar Hi Gary - another cracking and thought provoking video. I am quite new in this journey having only had our install done last month and am trying to determine which Octopus tariff would be right for me - so this is really timely. However I wondered how/if the calculations change if the DNO place an export restriction. I have a total of 11kW when the sun is shining but am restricted to 8kW, so the battery has been throttled back by 3kW (to 3kW)
@@SolarStuffAmateur Thanks - if you really want to model things, I recommend you try out my modelling utilities here: garydoessolar.com/solarazma_pro_intro/
@@GaryDoesSolar Got it!. It's the Peak rate import cost uplift that creates the case for a battery. Thanks for the pointers
Since I don't have solar potential then I think come July I might switch to a fixed tariff for at least a year, This is because battery prices are too high for me at the moment and looking at last year's prices during autumn and winter when the kwh price can be more expensive in the evening when space heating is required, it will be cheaper on a fixed tariff, Here's hoping battery prices keep falling then next year....What about constraints on changing tariff? You cannot go back to Agile if you leave for 9 months. Also, batteries have a total cycle count so is degrading with every charge.
Hi Daniel, yeah, I have a feeling that later this year, we're going to see a marked change in battery pricing (downwards!) So I think it won't be long before they're within your price range. And don't forget with tariffs like Intelligent Octopus Flux, you won't necessarily need a large battery, given how the tariff works: th-cam.com/video/ualxtLLAwcc/w-d-xo.htmlsi=ZvEjMv5sJt_NM3KR
I'm working on a video just now about the whole switching every 6 months thing, seeing if there is a better way...
Have you posted your full system somewhere?
I’ve posted a video on my Patreon which contains details about my own setup here: www.patreon.com/GaryDoesSolar
@@GaryDoesSolar don’t have your Patreon but I was curious how many panels/watts you have and your inverter capacity with a 48kWh peak day. Is there a reason you haven’t posted it for your TH-cam subscribers?
@@stephenrussell6074 Hi Stephen, my Patreon is really for people who are interested in supporting my work, and on there I regularly post videos of a more personal nature, including details about my setup etc. In summary, I have a 7kWp South-facing array with a 5kW hybrid inverter and 19kWh batteries.
@@GaryDoesSolar hi Gary, thank you, just knowing the basic figures really helps put some of your videos in context. I do understand the need for Patreon and if I were not retired I almost certainly would have joined to support you and your channel. I wonder have you considered doing a quarterly production report with how generation went and the effectiveness of your tariff choice.
@@stephenrussell6074 That's a great idea, Stephen. I'll see how I can schedule that in... Maybe not quarterly, but annually. I recommend you watch Tim & Kat's Green Walk for a monthly view of their solar and battery performance: th-cam.com/video/EEEaUJ5IvY8/w-d-xo.htmlsi=bPINgz1fcjieHpfd
I tried to change from Flux because I have a Mixergy hot water heater and a 15KW battery. I found out that only three brands of battery are compatible with Octopus at the moment. Dec 1024.
Correct. Octopus has had real problems trying to add additional manufacturers. Hence this new initiative:
th-cam.com/video/-_myEpJthAc/w-d-xo.htmlsi=QMLWNOHy-KvnWzKr
Can i still keep my old FiT if i go on to Octopus FiT ?
Worth reading this: facebook.com/groups/2197329430289466/permalink/6080359505319753/
@@GaryDoesSolar Thanks but ive been locked out from Facebook for weeks
Salute your bravery. My Gen1 GE kit would I feel not be up to the task.
Oh, I don't know, Stuart - I reckon it would be! :-)
It works great with my Gen1
@@scottferguson5462 Thanks Scott, good to know and encouraging then 👍
I wish Octopus would do a combination of Tracker and Intelligent Go. Daily updated prices with a peak / off peak margin. With my Ohme charger, I could just plug in every day, set a price cap of some number of pence and never have to think about it.
Food for thought...
Hi Gary - fantastic video. However, the Agile tariff is unpredictable it may work you but not for me.. a bit like playing the lottery!
Yeah, Agile can be a bit like that! Thanks for the great feedback on the video :-)
I have an EV so decided to go for the standard Flux. Topping up an EV using intelligent can cost you a hefty sum at 21p, so you would loose a lot that you have made with draining your batteries at peak times. Topping up your car during the three hour flux period on the standard flux is still expensive, but you can make it back with sunlight.
Why not Intelligent GO? You get 6h at 7.5p plus extra slots plus solar.
@@fabriziooddo9245 I don't have a compatible car or charger for Intelligent Go. During the summer I don't use the car much as I have an electric scooter that I charge with the solar panels. So for me Flux i think is the better tariff? It's all swings and roundabouts really....
One of my TH-cam buddies made this video recently, which compares the tariffs. He has an EV and would have moved to Flux if IOF wasn't an option: th-cam.com/video/cZ3VsnuEM9k/w-d-xo.htmlsi=1oqvMP8x05BQJBdv
@@GaryDoesSolar Yes good video. My own workings out have suggested that i would have been about £2-£3 better off with intelligent flux if i don't charge my car much. I needed to charge twice this week so did loose a little profit. I need to make a code for intelligent go to compare too, as i am thinking of getting a (2nd hand) Tesla this year.
@@GaryDoesSolar but Go seems to be the best one as per video linked especially when covering more miles. I use 300-450 KWh on EV only and any of the Flux ones would push the import costs too high.
I hated this in the first few days as it does need to settle down. I posted on Facebook as such and was told it would settle. I was very dubious but it did and is now working well.
Ah, I remember your post on FB, and I was one of the responders who said it would start behaving before long... Glad that it did :-)
@@GaryDoesSolar You was I remember. I wanted you to be right and you were but at the time I couldn't see it!! lol.
@@CC_FPVyes mine took a couple of days to settle at one point it actually charged during peak , I spoke to octopus tech about it. Haven’t seen this happen since.
Anyone know if I can use this tarrif with a foxess inverter and mira batteries?
Only compatible with GivEnergy at the moment
Yeah, just GivEnergy at the moment, but Octopus Energy is looking to add other manufacturers over time...
How beneficial was the resulting income credit Gary, worthwhile?
Hi Richard, a bit too early to say as I've only been on the tariff for just over 3 weeks... That said, there's an awful lot of exporting going on, especially during peak times - and so I'm hoping to see that reflected well in the monthly bills :-)
Hi Gary. Thanks for all your wonderful vids! Although the content of this one makes me grind my teeth!
I would love to be on Intelligent Flux, but have a Tesla powerwall which cannot be linked into the tariff. How annoying is that 🙄 m
You’re most welcome, Mary - that’s great feedback to receive!
And you will be able to stop grinding your teeth soon-because Octopus Energy has recently reached agreement with Tesla to integrate Powerwall into their range of Intelligent tariffs.
That capability should be available before long 👍🏻
That's great news thanks 😁
Gary, the real life loses of the battery are well above 10%.
My GE app shows efficiency 94% for the two years we now had the 8.2kwh battery. However, my experiments using the smart meter readings for import-export showed efficiency under 70%. Apologies for repeating myself, as I have made similar comments 2-3 times in your channel, but my numbers are consistently the same. If your battery has real life efficiency similar to mine, the revenue from the forced discharge is very likely close to zero.
Here is a chart for my own GivEnergy battery: garydoessolar.com/files/battery_stats.png
This works out to an 87% efficiency. Can you tell me how you did your experiments please? I may try the same here - thanks!
@@GaryDoesSolar
The method I used to calculate the efficiency of my battery:
On a quiet evening
1. Empty battery
2. Turn off as many circuit breakers as possible (I left on only the WiFi router)
3. Take the import and export readings from the smart meter
4. Charge the battery to 100%
5. Take new import reading
6. Immediately fully discharge the battery with the breakers still off
7. Take the new export reading and turn breakers on.
I have repeated this 5 times in two years and every time the efficiency was 67-69%.
Interesting chart. Which app?
@@serraios1989 The chart is from the GivEnergy portal. Your method looks fine. I'll see if I can find more data on GivEnergy battery efficiency... troubling if the efficiency is as low as you're reading.
excellent video Gary, thank you. I've been on IOF for 2-3 wks now and my only concern is the Inverter operating temperature during the 4pm-7pm forced export period. I'm in contact with Octopus on this but have also implemented a sort of 'safety break' using Home Assistant (this inserts a 2-minute pause in discharging if Inverter temp rises above a pre-set threshold). There is a thread running on this topic (see previous comment in the list), but let me know if you want to know more. Thanks once again. Keep up the good work!
Thanks for the kind words about the video - yeah, interested to hear more about this. My email is me@GaryDoesSolar.com.
My Inverter reached 77 degrees C, and BMS 69, when inverting at 3600 with little solar. There is a new? setting under My Inverter, Remote Control, Inverter Discharge Power Percentage which can be used to limit the actual discharge rate (shown as Battery Power in Home Assistant). GivEnergy are investigating my inverter temps.
@@cheeky_farquar Wow! That is a big number! I found that I could override the discharge power (an exact wattage number not a percentage, so I will check if there are any new settings I might have overlooked) but that the Octopus algorithm would put the figure back up again within about 15mins of me doing so. That said, for the past week it seems as though changes I make at this end are not being overridden by the algorithm so often. I now have a sequence of automations in Home Assistant for both Charge and Discharge which turn on an external fan at 46C, and then start to limit the Inverter power at thresholds of 50,52,54,56,58,60. Since putting this in place about a week ago, nothing above that first 50C automation has needed to trigger, so with just the automatic fan and first power restriction at 50C, it’s looking like I’ve achieved a balance which holds things to around or just below 50C. Happy to share graphs plus the automations I’ve knocked up if of interest (I’m a real novice with Home Assistant but am pleased with the results thus far). (PS: great handle by the way! ;-) )
@@ArheddisVarkenjaab It's interesting what you have done there with your thresholds. My inverter starts at 4pm at about 40C and my fan turns on at 55, off again at 45, and is able to maintain < 55 only in combination with this new rate limiting setting (see online Portal as this is not currently available via GivTCP). Octopus won't change this setting as it's there to protect the inverter (if needed). My HA automations that limit the Octopus am charge to 85%, leaving space for solar power that would otherwise be clipped, my charge up to 100% between 3pm and 4pm, and my discharge to 75% between 4pm and 5pm all have triggers that monitor if Octopus change the Enable Charge/Discharge Schedule (from On to Off), Start or End Times, or Target SOC and then set them back again to what I want. After this Octopus are able to discharge the battery down to 20% (but this would ideally be less ofc as I do not have an EPS). For ref I have 8.6kWp solar, 5kW Hybrid Inverter G3 and 9.5kWh G2 battery.
@@cheeky_farquar thanks for the tip on that new rate limit. I’ve set mine to 85% to see if anything changes. I’m still seeing reported discharge of 3.6kW but wonder whether the Inverter is just *reporting* that figure but rate-limiting somehow. I may raise the threshold at which the fan kicks in to see if it would be easier to stabilise things at a slightly higher temp. My fan may not be up to it but I’m using a USB one as the eventual aim is to drive it from the Inverter’s USB port (I’ve already obtained a USB powered Zigbee switch that I should be able to drive the fan from). This would free up one of the two ESP mains outlets I have, whilst still ensuring the fan always has power regardless of grid supply.
I have no solar or battery, 1 room, all lekky, and agile has saved me a fortune on monthly bills.
That's great to hear! :-)
Hi Gary,
Great channel and i always look towards new video.
However, to switch to iof you are giving up control of usage of your battery to suits grid needs, not as much mine to certain point. I bought battery to for my needs, not grids. And here comes problem. Lifespan of the battery. I know some manufacturers do offer unlimited cycles, but force discharge still put extra wear on bartery and even with unlimited cycles, capacity will much lower. My battery are not supported yet, but even if they become supported, i will still not force discharge them, on regular bases. Maybe now and them. And you havent included cost of wear and tear of your battery in your calculation. You have made video about it in the past.
I dont have any electric car, so for now i do stick to normal flux and octopus go in winter. Until something better comes around.
Great content, keep going.
Cheers Peter - yeah, and I guess we'll all need to form our own opinion on how to get the best use from the battery. My view would be the following:
1. However the battery is used, it must prioritise a financial return for myself.
2. At the same time, if that also help the environment, then that's welcome.
3. I don't want to be thinking about, other than to look at reports every now and again
4. I don't want the battery cycling more than once a day.
That's it really, and I believe Intelligent Octopus Flux meets all those requirements :-)
Thanks for your kind words about my videos! I'll keep them coming :-)
Now here is the thing. Gary doesn’t have an EV car, I do (well hybrid) but the point is it’s not the car it’s whether the charger you bought is supported by Octopus and guess what I have pod point and Octopus said they don’t support Pod Point so people ask them first depending on what make you buy. Once again the sales man sold me a dummy.
Sorry to hear you were told incorrect information - it's the reason I started this channel in fact... when I started looking into solar, it was a minefield - with a ton of misinformation out there, and a clear opportunity for cowboys to enter the market, make a ton of money, then disappear as soon as they came... Hope you're able to resolve your charger issue!
Watch your bills closely. I am not convinced Octopus can calculate flex bills properly
Yeah, Octopus billing is not as straight-forward as I would like. You've given me an idea, Karen...
your usage may be higher than you think because it includes battery charging.. it is for me
Could be...