IDEA: WORKBENCH HEIGHT - Concrete floors are tough on feet. Instead of lowering your workbench why not add a cushioned base to stand on while at the bench. Think about trip hazard and you may want it to span between benches. Just an idea and worth twice what you paid for it. Good tips. Thanks. We are moving and a new bench is on my radar.
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Lots of great insight. One reason many woodworkers prefer a softwood bench top is if you drop a project on the bench, better for the bench to take the dent than the project. Something to consider.
I've had both hard and softwood benches. Would never go back to a hard surface. To me if it's a softer than the project that's a good thing. If you spend a month with a hardwood benchtop you would understand how much damage they cause. Soft and stable that's the perfect bench. Take no time at all to clean up or flatten a softwood top.
Flat workbench surfaces are where I love to store things, like my tools, and wood chips, and sawdust, maybe some pencils, measuring devices, some sort of finishing goo, that iced tea I was drinking, and pretty much anything else. When I run out of room there, I just put stuff on top of all that other stuff. Then I spend probably 3/4 of every project looking for stuff I literally just had in my hand. Wait, here it is, in my hand. This way when I finish a project, I can feel proud and say to myself, “I wonder if I can pay someone to clean this up.”
How dumb was I to build a small 2x4 storage box right next to the bench? Basically just turned into a trash can that I can reach into and pull a tool out of, while cutting the hell out of myself occasionally... To compensate I built a small band aid box holder on the inside leg of the bench 😅
I’m not so much a woodworker as a wood abuser. Having gotten back into the hobby after a number of years, I really appreciate hearing what someone would do different based on their experience of using the thing they built. Very informative. Thanks!
I was told that after you make a work bench, the first thing you should do is take the largest mallet you have in the workshop and smack it down hard into the middle of the bench. That way you're not going to be afraid of actually using it after you've just taken the time to build it. Also, softwood takes damage much more easily than hardwood, which means your project isn't taking damage. Plus, if it's getting really scratched up, and it's becoming an issue, plane the surface a little, just don't forget to wallop it with a mallet when you're done...
Funny, that's what my dad told me about getting a truck. If its new and pretty take it on a quad trail and get a few scratches. That way you aren't afraid to use it to its potential.
You don't have to build another bench. Cut the legs to put the table at the height you desire. Inset the vise to make it flush to the side of the bench. Drill through the stringer to accommodate the screws for your end vise. Make a video on how you customized the Sellers bench to meet your needs.
Al Woods cut enough off the legs to allow you to add a hardwood top. This would also give you the extra depth in the tool well. Similarly fix a hardwood side rail to get the vice flush.
I was thinking that it would be simple to build the front out around the vise to make it flush, rather than re-mounting the vise. If you use hardwood for that piece it, the long top-front edge would be more ding-resistant. At the same time incorporate a sliding deadman with holdfast holes to support long work. Easy for me to say, right?
softwood tops will absorb blows to chisels etc, Hardwood benches will cause a rebound effect when you hit a tool with a mallet or hammer which will make repeated blows harder to line up and will have an effect on your hands , wrist joints , fingers which is an issue with my arthritis , just a different point to consider.
Frankly using mallet and chisel hurts my ears every blow. I wear ear protection. Seriously considering using a thin absorption matt to ease the sound and force
I would consider putting another Wilton vise to the right of the first one. Two vises make a big difference in the stiffness of the part you are working. It's a standard approach in machine shops for long parts. Lovely-looking workbench!
Very useful video thanks. I built a solid oak workbench, fairly low, with a removable moxon vice for raising the sawing height and a sliding deadman for clamping bigger boards and doors. After 6 years of use I have 2 real regrets. First, I wish I had used a hardwood like beech with a bit more give for the top as it can be bouncy and very noisy when using a mallet. Secondly, I put in a large Record 53 as a tail vice, which is less useful than I expected and does cant too much when clamping at one edge of the bench. I am replacing this with a wagon vice as the design will not allow me to do most things that I need (the design will not accommodate a twin screw vice).
I used similar plans from Paul Sellers to make a plywood workbench. Totally agree with an overhang on the right side to allow for a larger vise. I did do that and can use dog holes with the vise to hold long pieces of wood in place. I also use holdfasts on the front and back sides for long boards. On the front, I made a L-shape filler board the thickness of the vise gap and it rests on top of the bench easily to support longer boards. Works like a charm with a holdfast to give extra support on the right side of the vise. Last modification was doing a smaller center well with more work surface on the other side. Original intent was to make the bottom easily removable for clamp access, but yet to do that, so I screwed the bottom in place for better stability. Nice Review.
I resurface my heavy-ish MDF slab bench top with 3/4 maple flooring. Tool wells have stuff sticking up that catches/damages the project and collects junk and debris. I made a couple of 6 inch deep x 16 inches long boxes with a small work surface off one box side (cantilever kind of thing) that has pegs glued underneath that drop into my dog holes. Boxes hang off the bench anywhere around the bench out of the way.
I have a few thoughts that might help fix some of your issues: 1. When you're making your first bench designed for hand tool work, make it taller than you think you need it and trim the legs a little bit at a time till you find the right height. After that, any new bench just gets built to that height (or follow the same process, your call). 1a. Watch some of Rob Cosman's workbench building videos, he makes a "leg extender," for lack of a better term, it's basically a box that gets slid under the legs that raises the height to make it easier to work when sawing or chiseling, then remove them for planing. It's fitted tightly to the legs so that you don't get extra movement in the bench when pounding on a chisel with a hammer. 2. Cut a recess in the apron so that the rear jaw of your vise is flush with the apron. You may have to add material under the work surface to attach the vise. not much you can do about the tool well, other than build a cover for it! Hope these help...have a great weekend!
This video popped up when I was watching the Paul Sellers video on adding the sharpening shelf to his bench. I just finished my bench to his design. Several things I did differently are the height is 38" ( I'm 6'1 and this feels comfortable for me so far. I can always cut it down.) The bench top is 21" wide with a 4" wide well (Yeah I collect a lot of stuff on my bench top too. I figured it would help keep things organized). I made the length with the apron 12" longer than the plan with a 12" tail sticking out past the ends of the aprons. This gives me a bench 90" overall with 78" apron area. So far so good. I'll keep your comments in mind as I start working on my bench. Thanks for the bench review.
This makes sense and should be an idea people think of commonly. And if you wood work or even blacksmith( can go hand in hand) having something comfortable to stand on just makes sense. Good advice all around.
Thanks for the good counsel about building a (another) workbench. I purchased a small bench several years ago and need a larger, taller, heavier bench. I appreciate all the suggestions and gained awarenesses. I add to the challenges you've identified by being left handed. Believe it or not, virtually all benches, like tools, are designed for right-handed users. I didn't even think about the placement of the vises on my purchased bench until I started using them. They are on the wrong end and wrong side of the bench..., but they are for a southpaw. Thanks for all you share.
I have an old workbench, made in the 1970's by my dad. It is made of hardwood (unknown) and very heavy. I screwed 3/4" plywood to the top about 25 years ago to protect the original surface. I also fitted steel casters running on angle iron bolted to the shop floor, so that I can move the bench to access both sides. I use my bench for wood as well as metal work. for the metal work I bolted a piece of mild steel 12" x 18" 2" thick to the corner furthest from the woodworking vice. I added a metal working vice to the same end. As I do not have the luxury of other stands or tables, I fitted my bench grinder, belt sander and drill press to the side of the bench opposite the woodworking vice. This setup, although cramped has served me well for the past 25 years.
Good video - thanks for the advice from your experience. Kudos also to all your commenters! I am only half way through them and there’s a treasure trove of great advice from all of you who have commented!! 👍🏻👍🏻
The “work too high when in the vice” is easily remedied by raising what you’re standing on - something like a sheet of plywood ripped in half and attached to the flat side of a simple 2x4 frame gets you up a cpl of inches - and can be used on sawhorses for an assembly surface when not standing on it. Your side vice could be inset into your top so you have that flush face/apron to support your work. The end vice- just breadboard the end w a 2-3 2x4s. As long as you mount them so the bench can move (Don’t glue stuff cross-grain -use long lags and elongated slots) it’ll work fine for you.
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Thanks for the video. I am a hand tool woodworker and have been doing so for 6+ years. Some things I've learned: 1. At 6' tall, I find the 36" height too short and wish the bench were taller. It works fine for hand planning but chisel work, sawing, etc is a bit uncomfortable. If I were to do it over again, I'd start at 40" height. FYI, Paul Sellers builds his bench at 39" height. 2. My bench is nestled up against the wall which works well for a multiuse garage. I'd much rather have a situation like yours where it is more in the open. 3. Mine is made from maple and happy with the hardness of the wood.
Hi! I like your suggestion to put dog holes along the edge of the bench to fasten long boards. I hadn't thought of that one! I did mount my vise so the face of the back jaw is flush with the edge of the bench, then as you said I use a bar clamp across the bench top to secure a long board or a door. But the bench top is ALWAYS cluttered with tools and materials that have to be moved aside to place that bar clamp. A dog into the edge! What a great idea.
Suggestion for end vise: bore holes in the cross member to accommodate the vise shafts and screw. You won't lose significant strength and also won't increase overhang too much. jus' sayin'
Nice video. I too am making the Paul Sellers workbench. Working on the leg joinery now. I opted to make mine about 2 inches shorter than his - (his is 38 inches), I considered not having a tool well, but decided to go with a slightly smaller one (9.5 as opposed to 11). I know there is real potential for allowing clutter, but I am also determined to change habits. The well is useful, provided my habit is for temporary storage. I also opted for a wider bench top 14.5 inch rather than 12 Due to space concerns I also opted for a less long of a top. I should be ok with 55 inches.
Excellent video, showing a great ability to learn, and adapt! Your observation, about the softness, of the top, has caused me to adjust my own build plans. I didn't take the time to cruise the comments, so I may or may not be the 657th guy to suggest you consider a "Roubo" style bench, if you do build another workbench. You mentioned work-holding frustrations, and, I have to say; the guys who use Roubo benches, never have that concern, since every side, of the bench, including the legs, is a perfectly even clamping surface. Also, the familiar leg vise, combined, with it's partner, the sliding "deadman", is the most rock-solid method, of clamping a board, on-edge, that has eve been invented. My only modification, to the traditional variations, is the inclusion, of a wide "Veritas" vise, at one end. The vise installs easily, clamps about 18", between the bars, brings two points of contact, in opposition, to your dog holes, and resists racking. Well, that should be enough commentary, to light a firestorm, of abuse, from the armchair know-it-alls! Cheers!
Thanks, very informative! Workbench is like a fingerprint, they are unique for each person :) Since I don't have my own space for woodworking, I will build my first workbench (Roman workbench height) and it will be a regular bench on weekdays. The vises will be removable and can be stored underneath along with the bench dogs and clamps. Also, I will make the top removable from legs so I can carry it to the ground floor -- I live on the second floor.
Great follow-up. I loosely followed Paul's bench also, but gave up finding a suitable softwood since the big box store only seems to carry firewood grade. I used 8/4 poplar instead and it's held up fine. It's the cheapest hardwood on the market along with not being too hard to plane by hand. The one exception was the plank that holds the line of square dog holes--a 1by piece of oak. I also set the height at 40 inches., which alleviates shoulder strain from chisel work.
Totally agree proper bench height does matter. I was gifted a nice heavy duty bench and used it for many years. It had became problematic as i have aged. Being 6 ft and haveing low back problems was painful ended up adding rather large 4 in lock casters. Made a huge difference with mimimal cost. My youngest daughter wants the bench when im gone she is 5ft 7. So removing the casters will be easy. Thanks for the vice tips as i do not have one on my bench. Thanks for sharing:)
Nice to hear that! Thank you Jim for all you do! Still working on the Shop remodel. Got all the junk thrown away. Now have to do the floor. Still 🥵 HOT!!!
For me I like a tall bench. It saves my back. I also love soft wood like a red pine because it doesn't bounce as much when using a chisel and if I do dent something I want it to be my bench not that custom cabinet I worked on for 20 hours. I like to be able to grab around my work when using my vice. So I enjoy it not being flush. I have a 24 inch vice mind you so it's heavy duty and I like really clamping things down tight.
I have also seen a craftsman talk about how a hardwood bench can transfer more vibration back on the hands when using a mallet, since there is not much flex. My bench looks terrible, but it still works great so I have no complaints.
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Just started wooodworking as a retirement hobby and am wrapping up a Paul Sellers workbench. At this stage I am trying to figure out a dogging system and find your video very useful. I ended up mounting a 7" Record vise on the side (as and endvise). It has a retractable metal top post to use with a doging system. Was lucky in that I made the bench longer (72 inches) and did leave the extra clearance to the legs to mount it. I plan to complement that vise with holdfasts in the top surface, in a similar way that you have. Instead of a front vise, I am making a crochet and will drill some dog holes and holfast holes in the side skirt. My concern is that the skirt may not be thick enough for the holdfasts and am wondering if I should re-enforce it. Comments and critiques welcome.
Great video, you hit on your concerns. I am currently rebuilding my bench, your experiences will be helpful. Some one already suggested using half inch hardwood top. I am also considering using a quarter inch Masonite top and then just replacing it as needed. Re tool well I suggest you use it as a tell for what needs it's own place. Like for example your mallets. Thanks for the Video.
Planing a door shouldn't be much problem on that bench, you could lay it on the floor and still be able to get an end in your vice, should be rock solid like that. My vice isn't flush on my bench, i ve found that a peg hole is enough to support the weight and my vice holds it well enough. Great clip and nicely made bench 👍👍
I built a 900 mm wide workbench with a tool well in the middle and work surfaces either side. I used Australian red ironbark (because I live in Australia)for the bench top but any hardwood is better then pine.True, the well will become a depository for items but I built a full width, full length drawer with heavy duty slides to fit under the bench. I also fitted a twin screw vice and bought extra chain to bring it out to the full width of the bench.if you decide to put in a twin screw vice, try to design the bench to accomodate it. Utilising the twin screw vice I now have clamp which is as wide as the bench is long by putting 4 equally spaced holes in the wooden vice jaw and corresponding holes all the way along the bench top in 200 mm increments.True, the tool well will always fill up but we just have to be disciplined to deal with it. I keep most of my tools in the drawer as they are nice and handy and I don’t have to walk to the shelves to get any of them. Any body who puts their tool just used, away every time it is used would never get anything done. The main purpose of what we do is to enjoy what we do and to bring a beautiful object out of the chaos, whether it is too many tools or a thousand shavings on the bench. I built my bench trying to discipline myself to build something that is functional as well as being something that I can admire every time I look at it and believe me it was well worth it.
Ian Forrester. Well Ian, I dimensioned it through the thicknesser and guess what? I Have now installed a spiral cutter head for any future iron bark. The straight cutters don’t last long
If you add a hard top (say 1") to the bench that will automatically lower the tool well. Then cut the legs to suits :) Not sure why you'd need a super strong end vice - I don't believe they need that much strength just to hold the odd board for planing. Then simply recess the existing euro vice into the bench - that is what Paul Sellers does on his original video. Also, I personally love to see a few marks on a bench - it shows your wife that you are actually working in there!
It’s quite simple to solve at least three of your issues. As regards height you could just cut an inch or inch and a half from the bottom of your bench legs this will allow you to shave or plane your lumber at your preferred height. You could build a shelf or drawer underneath the bench to keep those tools which you use frequently but don’t need on the bench all the time. Finally you could remove the vice and the cut and recess to allow the inside surface to become flush with the outer edge. These are all easily done and are not complicated.
Totally agree, hes thinking inside the box ,and not outside the box. Not saying he Is dumb , sometimes you need another person or perspective to solve a problem
I dont care for the sellers table design because I like a larger full surface but I made mine out of poplar with walnut runners for the holdfast holes many years ago and its held up perfectly. I think the walnut runners keeps things even and helps it last. Everyone said it wouldn't last a year that was 5 yrs ago. Try the hardwood runner idea it worked for me.
Nothing better than white oak for a workbench. That is my opinion. Old-growth out of an old barn is my fav. Almost any wood will be softer than a tool edge.
Yeah I have a crappy old cutting board under my bench that I break out and put down on my bench for whenever I have to chop on it. I guess you could chop right on the surface of a workbench but that is going to eat it up. I don't care what it's made out of. Well maybe if you have a steel plate welding table that you woodwork on. Be hard on the tools then I'd imagine.
Finishing my bench up right now actually. I appreciate your comments, I did incorporate a leg vise and a sliding dead man (thanks to several youtuber vid’s). Also allowed room for the end vise. Where did you find your hold fast? I do like your idea on the tool tray and I will try to adapt something besides a.rolling cart (which fills up regularly). Again thanks for the video and comments you provide. BTW, I agree with others, saw those legs off that extra inch you want, why wait until the next build? Lastly, interesting concept of a hardwood overlay. Thanks again
I’m about to build this same bench. One thing I’m doing with the front vise is making where it will clamp the work piece flush against the apron. The vise board will have dog holes in line with a few on the bench itself. This way it gives the vise a little more versatility having bench dogs to secure work pieces in different ways. Just my thought on the matter.
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Although, your video is 4 years old, I just got to see it today (so forgive me for the long reply because I get wordy). I have a small shop and it is terribly organized with not enough room for a workbench. The only workbench I have is one that I've inherited from my Father-in-Law. The bench is beautiful old Swedish (Sjobergs) workbench, and it's one of those you can purchase but to be honest I don't use it much and other than storing my hand planes, it doesn't do much for me. I put it on casters (which was a mistake) in order to be able to move it, but because the workbench is too light, whenever I do want to plane something on it then I have to brace the bench against something solid (like a wall) otherwise I'll be chasing the bench and whatever I want to plane around the shop. While I think the Sjorbergs bench I have is beautiful and I love the vises, they don't work for me. Either because I'm either too dumb and/or perhaps because I don't know how to use the vises. I find that if I clamp a flat piece of wood on the vise to work on the edge, it doesn't clamp it hard enough for me to put pressure on it to plane without the piece moving. Maybe, I'm too much of a brute (probably true since 23&Me says I've got some Neanderthal in me). In addition, my Table Saw area takes up nearly a 1/3 of my shop and if I need to do anything long at all I'll need to open the garage door. Although, I have a two car garage the garage has to serve at minimum of 3 functions (sometimes 4). The Laundry is in the garage, There is storage in the garage, my workshop is in the garage, the water heater is in there as well as the furnace and to top it all off my wife needs a workout area all this in a two car garage (not a true 2 car garage but one of those with the single door). Anyway, all my whining is to say that I am looking for a solution and just because you can get something for free or cheap from someone, it may not necessarily be what you need and may cause you more of a headache than a solution.
Instead of holdfasts in my dog holes, I have 3/8" holes with 5/16" t-nuts underneath and a handful of various length bolts and pre-drilled 2x2s handy for holding things down. To make it even more useful, all of my benchtop tools are mounted to plywood with holes drilled in them so I can easily "clamp" them to the bench.
Mine is built from ash with a maple top. Love it, little marring even after 15 years. No tool holder because its a catch-all no matter how deep it is. I am surprised you did not research this before you went through the trouble of building one
Rusty Boyer - I really liked the presentation. Just honest evaluation. I can’t have a tool well! If his looks like that, I don’t want to find out how fast mine would fill up with crap leaving me with a too skinny bench top.
I'll be building a joiners workbench by the end of the Year. It will be 7' long by 3' wide and 40" high. I'll fit an apron vice and a tail vice. I won't bother with the tool well. I'll have a shelf beneath the top, 👍🔨🇮🇪
I think the 'junkdrawer' in the middle of the bench is actually useful if you are Highly disciplined . I am not ! So ... no . Keep clutter on a rolling cart . It's my best solution so far . 😉
For starters I don't have a work bench....at least NOT YET and by the way I am 55 years old and always wanted a shop and a work space AS WELL AS a work bench!! BUT with that being said my shop currently is only 8 foot by 8 foot to start with so I do a lot of my work outside. Currently I am working on designing a work bench that has pneumatic tires on it that swivel, and a jack system to "raise and lower" the bench onto and off of the tires (parked position)!! The idea being I can "jack up" the bench and move it in and out of my shop, and once I have it where I want it or need it, I lower it back onto the legs to "mount it" in a "parked position" to use it!! Another reason to use pneumatic tires is because my shop exits into my yard, where normal casters would just sink into the ground!!! So I need a tire that will ride on top of the grass!! Further another reason for my design is I often find myself being asked to help my step son who lives in the next county over. So it would be awesome to have a work bench I can "lift up" roll up into the bed of my truck (fully loaded) and roll it up my ramps, then "strap it in" for the ride to his home as a "enclosed unit"!! This way I can visit him when he needs help with a project with all the tools I need in ONE location and just wheel it where I need it at will!! Here on TH-cam, there is a guy who built a work bench that has a tow hitch (receiver hitch) off a truck mounted to it!! The receiver style hitch can that be used to mount tools to it like a shop vice or certain saws as needed and the "receiver" part of it can be modified to hold any number of tools if you use a bunch of different receiver ends that can be "changed out as needed"!! In other words one receiver can be attached to a bench vice and the next can have a grinder mounted to it, or even a small drill press and so on, this way you can interchange tools quickly as you need them, and they store them away later when you don't need them to give you your work space back!! I thought it was a wonderful idea!! Another thing I am thinking about doing is "reversing" a ceiling mounted drop cord self reeling system!! We have all seen those "pull down" cord reels that hang from your shop ceiling in many shops. BUT if you switch the ends so the female plug is on the "down" or "reel side" and the male end is on the "extension" or "pull out" side, then attach THAT to your work bench as a "self winding extension cord" to power your work bench. Simply because when I work I always seem to end up in my yard because I have way more space than in my 8 foot by 8 foot shop!! And having to wind up a cord gets to be a pain that I have dealt with for years now!! Lastly I have a wood rack in my shop!! It isn't huge mind you, and I used a French Cleat to hold it to the top of my wall which my wall height IS ALSO 8 feet tall with a Gambrel Roof. So I have more than enough wood storage!! So I want my work bench to have tool cabinets on board and use barrel locks to keep them locked as it moves!! Space in my tiny shop is a premium so anything I can do to make things "portable and self contained" helps!!
Consider making a toolbox that will fit inside your tool well and can hold everything that sticks up too high. Then when it comes time to use the whole bench for clamping or assembly, you just need to move that one box full of stuff out of the way.
I don't buy vises, I built a leg vise on the front of the bench and a Molson vise on the end. With dog holes and removable crochets I can hold most everything. Totally agree with the need for a deep tool well for the same reasons. As to your soft top I've done two different things at various times. I've topped it with 1/4 " Masonite, and I've applied several layers of 50-50 thinned oil based polyurethane. The last commercial shop I worked at before retirement had all the benches covered with plastic laminate and oak rimmed. All three added to durability in some way and frankly depended on the user. My final commercial bench top withstood me building hundreds of things for Walmart stores out of a vast variety of materials. Pretty worn around the edges from sliding things about and lots of faded math problems. Others benches had been refinished several times because of sloth and slop. As in much of life it's the person not the tool.
I also have a Paul Sellers bench and the only thing I would agree is the flush face vice. I'm not set on the protruding vs face and would like to try having it on the face. Some stuff Paul never used are holdfasts and I've barely seem him use a planing stop. I've adapted mine to use those. The tool well needs discipline. I have boxes under the bench for random crap and always the same always at hand stuff on the bench: my bench planes, chisels, hammer and mallet, squares. Everything else comes and goes as soon as it's job is done.
Can you just cover/layer the top of the bench with hardwood? This change would result in deepening the tool trough by whatever hardwood thickness you add. Once you have settled on the material thickness, you can then shorten the legs to get the desired plane height.
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I was also thinking of making this workbench. The thing i was not sure about was the tool well. I almost wanted to loose the tool well and make the top bigger. The thing I’m not sure how to approach is choosing the vise. Good video good advise to consider.
Very good information. Thanks for sharing. Hard top versus soft top benches could be argued all day long, but if you decide to use soft, consider using an inlay of hard wood (length of bench) where you cut the dog holes. The remains scratches I can live with, that is what my bench is for...not furniture.
After watching several videos on work benches, I believe that mine will have adjustable legs so the height can be changed if necessary. You make a great point about your power stroke when planing and it would be nice to be able to change that height as needed.
I like a larger flat surface on my work bench and 2 vices in case i need to hold a long piece . Instead of the the trough i use a 4" x 3 ' box that i keep common used items at the work bench ( Screw drivers, calipers , pencils, squares, small pieces of sand paper, flash light, allen wrenches , etc,. It can be removed easily and set aside so i can throw something on the work bench for glue up etc. My workbench is not as traditional as yours but much more versatile . I made mine of yellow pine also . I nail, glue , epoxy , or what ever and about twice a year i take the power planer and belt sander to it and it looks new again. 10 years so far and holding its own. Good video , you sort of have to build your workbench to what you uses are and sometimes it it evolves as you go. My thoughts are keep it simple of front , build a bench a see how it works for you . Your next bench will be even better.
I really thought hardwood was the better choice, and planned to compromise on cost by using oak, which is a little more affordable here, north of Atlanta. However, I recently saw Jay Bates' comment about his terrible mistake building his with hickory: no give; especially when chiseling, but any prolonged hammering is exhausting because of the spring back. I'm grateful to learn from his experience, and now am looking at southern pine. jus' sayin'
Hickory is famous for having high vibration and stiffness. Used for baseball bats and drum sticks for example. Birch and maple have more give with less high frequency vibration. White oak or Doug fir could be a good compromise.
This was really very helpful. I'm thinking of building a new bench. Downsizing a little.. So, you confirmed what I was thinking about the depth of the tool well too.
The video was great thanks and so are the earlier comments. I made my bench a bit like a heavy duty sjobergs workbench made entirely from oak. In retrospect that oak top is too rigid and is a bit bouncy and noisy when chiseling as it does not absorb any of the impact, especially with a hard mallet. If i made a new bench I would probably choose beech for the top. The other thing that I would change is that I used a Record 52E as a tail vice with jaws the full width of the workbench. A twin screw would be better, but I think a Veritas tail vice would be better suited to what I do. Adding a sliding deadman is worthwhile too and i am glad I did this.
Hey Jim here is my advice as it pertains too the forward tool well. In your next shop bench do not make a well any longer-wider-deeper. Instead eliminate it all together. Keep the bench top completely flat with no obstructions. That way it will be dedicated solely for the purpose it is intended for. The deeper the well the more stuff you will accumulate in that trough. Trust me it will happen. So forget the trough and its best in general to eliminate all flat surfaces in the shop as they become all too convenient to get sloppy by simply laying a tool or scrap there instead of putting it away in a dedicated cabinet /shelf/etc. flat surfaces are junk magnets Harleymike/chicago
JuiceBanger1 You are absolutely right and nobody is more guilty of that then yours truly Knowing my sloth-like habits I make a point of returning most all of my tools to their proper storage location after leaving the shop for that session and 100% of the tools are stored properly after the particular project is finished in its entirety I only acquired this habit in the last 5 years and I am 70 yrs old so you can imagine the years and years I wasted so much time looking fir a particular tool or sized screw. And or the frustration of having to work around all that clutter. I find that returning to the shop is so much more pleasant now that I don’t have to clean off my work bench or table saw in order to do something. And of course where did all that stuff go when i made room on my work bench? Another flat surface. Haha. They are magnets for sure. Other than those needed for utilitarian purposes I eliminate them because even though I have improved my housekeeping tremendously over the past few years I cannot say I am fully cured nor do I expect to ever be! I need to i stall spikes on my remaining flat tops like the ones they use to keep pigeons from perching on building edges etc.
John Lowes ha John right you are unfortunately and even though I preach a good lesson I don’t always practice it myself. It is a constant struggle in my workshop to keeping it tidy but I appreciate the results after the battle is fought and won
I'm going to be making a workbench, so I've been watching a lot of videos. One thing that I haven't seen mentioned, at least not explicitly, is that most people need both a workbench (narrow - usually about 2' wide) and an assembly surface (as wide as you can manage). Given that most workbenches have a "front" (with the vise) and a back, I'm planning to put a fold-up assembly addition on the back - just 3/4" plywood. Thoughts?
I've been experimenting with a plan to have separate waste wells and tool wells, making for a slightly deeper bench and leaving no surface gaps above about eight inches. This would provide better support underneath a removable assembly shelf, which itself could then safely overhang one end and the front or back of the bench by a couple of inches. I'm focusing on how to maximise the available assembly area, for example to accommodate the construction of a kitchen cupboard or similar sized build while still leaving me room to work on other things. Also I want to stop smaller tools and parts getting lost in wood shavings and sawdust.
For a work surface, simply screw a piece of hardboard to the top. When it gets all dinged up, flip it over. To inset your vise, screw a board, of the right thickness, to your skirt.
1. Southern yellow pine gives great splinters. But if that doesn't bother you, relax and enjoy the fact that your work surface, compared to oak or maple, is a "dead anvil." Blacksmiths always want lively anvils, but woodworkers who chop and saw want dead ones. You don't want your mortise chopping strokes bouncing half way back up to your shoulder, you want the full force of your mallet strike to be absorbed into the workpiece. And build a cheap plywood work table for assembly, glue-up and finishing to keep your work surface nicer. 2. You don't need to use temporary spacers with your front projecting vise. Just build up the apron of your bench until the rear jaw is flush with the new apron. Problem solved. You'll also want to build out the front legs until it is all in the same vertical plane as the rear jaw of your vise. 3. You don't need to power through edge planing. In fact, you should be bending over a lot to judge edge planing, so closer to the eyeball is easier. If face planing is taking too much muscle power grind a plane blade on a curve, maybe an 18" radius, for roughing in. Use it at 45 deg. going in one direction down the workpiece, then at 45 deg. to the other way, going back. Saves a lot of effort. Bump the sole of your plane with furniture wax ir Crisco every 10 strokes. Old timers had a "fat box" slightly larger than the plane's sole. They filled it with lard (today:Crisco) and regularly bumped the sole in it. Good luck.
The flush vs. proud vise is something to think about. I do like the idea of easily placing something in a proud vise (Seller's method) but at time like it being flush, especially if I were going to do something long as you pointed out. 95% of what I do is quite small so a proud vise works well and have one mounted flush and one mounted proud (side and end vises).
Excellent points, was about to start my bench top today. Now you got me thinking. I hate that. Lol I share the bench with my father, he's 5'4" I'm 5'11", bench height is a challenge.
If I had your bench and want a hardwood top, i would buy 5/4 boards of my wanted surface and adhere it to the existing surface, re-drill the fast hold holes and cut down the legs height to whatever is your height is, easy peasy and be done with it in no time. I also would put a new apron from the same hardwood and recess the vise in it (that’s how I did mine)... Good luck with your ambition, it will cost you a lot less...
Just an opinion but having tried several options I much prefer a higher bench than most. I'm 5'4" and my bench is 36". With a sharp, well set plane I can take shavings at that height for hours, I find I don't need to put any downward force on it to take good shavings. If I find myself trying to lean on it, that's my hint to sharpen it. I plane quite a lot and the height is fine, though it took a little getting used to after I initially started out with the sort of low bench that many advocate. I would argue that most people lean over their plane because their bench is low, not because a well tuned plane requires it. Best of all for all other tasks from saw sharpening, mortice cutting and so on I find the higher bench is great for my posture and I can get a really close view to small details. I don't tend to use an end vice so that wouldn't bother me but if you like them I can see why you'd want the bench a bit longer. I prefer the front vice mounted away from the apron as I can get my fingers behind stuff that I put in it which I find less fiddly and irritating. As you pointed out you can use a space behind a large piece but I built a removable bench leg after seeing a Simon James video and on the rare occasion I need it it works really well. I've attempted to stick a link here if you are interested. th-cam.com/video/-n_qRQlakTw/w-d-xo.html Thanks for the good video, some interesting stuff to think about.
Tool well: No bench I build will have a tool well; it is just a trash can that fills with tools buried in sawdust. Bench height: There are a number of designs for adjustable-height benches, but they all seem too fiddly to me-not to mention not as stable as something with more-solid legs. Face vice: Paul Sellers doesn't like flush-mounted face vices, but I wouldn't have it any other way. I've never understood his objections to them. End vice: When I built my bench, I installed an end vice, but like most every woodworker I've talked to, I never use it.
@@ibuylbk3298 I have one of those. I should probably find different places to store what's on that. It still wouldn't work for tools I'm using though. What I'm using has to be right on the bench itself. Though lately I've taken to keeping a selection of hand planes on my radial arm saw table.
I built a 48 x 28 inch bench that sits under my plane and saw till. It has a twin screw vice on it and sits 3 inches higher than the rest on the wall bench. Use it to cut joints and shooting boards. With the tool wall behind it easy to put tools back when not using. Keeps my primary bench open for planing. The higher bench is perfect for chisel work and easier for me to cut dovetails.
You can recess the Wilson vice to make it flush, just set it low and rabbet the inner jaw to also sit over the top of the jaw so it’s flush with the top. Also you just auger holes for the side vice screw and rods. If you do it right it makes it stronger.
You may be able to set the face vise you have further into the bench: I don't know what the back looks like, but it would be worth looking into. To be honest, that's my biggest concern with a Paul Sellers style of bench: I really want that face vise to be flush with the front of the bench. I'm using a leg vise right now, and it's fantastic. You also could almost certainly install a wagon vise as your end vise. It's more limited, but at least it'll give you SOME workholding ability at that end!
Grizzly sells oak workbench tops 1 1/2” tho you could glue to your existing top. Drill your dog holes thru from bottom. Cut 3” from legs and you end up with the height 1.5” lower and a deeper tool well and hardwood top. Glue/screw spacer to edge of your table the thickness of your edge vise.
Thank you for this video. I've been watching workbench build videos for a couple of weeks, and I'm glad I did. As soon as I watched, I wondered if you'd considered adding to the front of the workbench top a piece to make the vise flush with the bench face.
Have you thought of gluing a harder wood plank on top (flat). You would have to drill your dowel holes but not too hard. I would try a 1/4 plywood and just a thought maybe use something less permanent than glue and just replace it when it’s too far gone. If you do glue it you could make grooves and then remove it easily with a chisel and a plane. I’m sure there are flaws with my idea but something to think about. I have the same problem and that is my current solution. I like your height idea. Sounds like the right thing to do.
I'd recommend setting up dog holes so that you can place planing stops in an L-shape. (this works well for the rough work with a jack or scrub plane). To mount an end vise, you might consider using a thick chop on the vise face. This allows you to put a dog hole in there (I use a wooden dog rather than the metal dog on the vise), and uses up some of the capacity that might otherwise interfere with the leg. If worse came to worse, you can probably cut down the rails and screw on your vise (I never use the full capacity of my end vise).
I’m in the planning stages on my “retirement workbench “ so far the best info I’m getting is from “The workbench book” by Scott Landis and of course “The Workbench Design Book” by Chris Schwarz. I like Paul Sellers bench but agree it had some short comings but it’s a damn fine bench design non the less. Thanks for the info !
Having had different benches I prefer softwood tops vs hardwood. Soft wood marks up more than the wood I’m working with, its quieter and less rebound when working with chisels. It’s a small price to pay to refinish or flatten slightly more often
According to Mike Siemsen a bench should be tall enough to reach all the way up under your work. Seriously tho, I saw an article years ago that suggested starting with the measurement from the floor to the bend in your wrist when standing with arms relaxed at your side. IIRC that's about 32" for me, I'm 6 ft. I will not be having a tool well on my future bench (most likely a Nicholson) as I don't want to be digging through shavings searching for a chisel.
I really appreciate your suggestions. I keep procrastinating my workbench build because I'm afraid I'll make some design decision that I will regret later on. So I keep looking at different workbench concepts and can never get around to actually building one. I guess I will just have to commit to one and live with it, and the one that I am going to do is the Paul Sellers plywood version. I'm not trying to start a bench-height war here but you mentioned that yours is 34" and if you made another bench you would make it even lower. I'm sure you are aware that both of the benches designed by Paul Sellers are 38". I am wondering if you have ever tried a 38" work height? It seems to me that when planing you are not so much concerned with downward force as you are with lateral force and with a 38" work height you don't have to bend over so far to get your shoulder behind the plane. Even before I came across Paul's workbench design I "accidentally" discovered that 38" worked well for me. While insulating and drywalling my shop I needed a work platform to reach the ceiling and built a 4'x8' platform out of 2x4s and OSB that was 38" high. This has become my "temporary" workbench and I find that this height is very comfortable for me (I am also 5'10").
If you use hard wood for the top it will get dinged up, it will just take longer and will be harder to plane out. I built mine like a joiners bench with holes on the side for pegs. That way you can put the end of the board in the end of the vice and lower it to the right height for you.!
Nice build & video, Maybe Lower the vice not the bench ... put baskets in the well (like the old letter or legal size type) and "MAKE" a french cleat shelf with a lip at an angle to store the baskets for organization and easy reach to utilize frequently used items. AND for the end vice if you really want one... to add on the extra few inches peg with steel rods or put it on a rolling stand that anchors with the work bench...
That is a nice workbench ,and you are in the future going to build another one out of hard wood random thoughts are why build complete new one why not put 1" 1/2 or more hard wood on top of the existing bench and before that cut the legs to the desired length then put the hard wood topping on ?
I can't remember the guys name that built a real nice hickory workbench but regrets it because his arms literally tingle when chiseling. He said it is too hard.Torched wood hardens the surface. Therefore, I am going to use regular lumber but torch burn the surface to make it hard. You scrape off the deep char, sand a little, then coat it with linseed oil or something. The absorbing feature of the softer wood underneath will take the shock from hammering or chiseling. Thanks for the info about a deeper tool well. Or use hardwood for the top but use softer wood for the legs like laminated 2x6 or 2x8 to absorb shock.
I think that might have been Jonathan Katz-Moses, though I could be wrong. You could probably also solve this by adding a layer of 1/2" oak or something similar to the top of the bench. You'd get the durability at the surface, but still have the softer wood below it for more flex.
@@andrewwarwick2831 I laminated 1"x2" dimensional lumber as a base, planed it flat then put old but unused maple flooring on top of that. Great shock absorption and very few dings on the top.
Beautiful bench! For the time being use some plastic tubs,or build some covered boxes under the bench to clear the bench clutter. Or build a stack of drawers on wheels that could be rolled under the bench. And then another stack of drawers, we keep getting more stuff. Right? I use old dressers, desks and cabinets....but you are more of a craftsman than I am. I'm sure you would rather build your own. Great videos! Thanks!
Nice bench. If you want to mount that heavy duty vice all you need to it is add wood to thicken the table top (underneath) to even with the cross bar. That will give you one level to work with
Go with beech when you rebuild that top. I made my work bench top out of solid beech and I’ve never needed to refinish it. Ive been using it for 35 years. It’s solid and not that costly. The Swedes used beech on theirs a thousand years ago. I do use protection on it when I use any chemicals on the bench.
I left a comment on Sellers' video in which he mounted the vise to his bench. I said that I did not like having the vise proud of the apron, which leaves the workpiece unsupported. He responded as he does to all criticism, which is to be dismissive. He later posted a video to defend the proud vise mounting position, and it contains a lot of falsehoods. There is one key thing to note about his bench, and that is that it fits his unusual working methods. He does almost everything with the workpiece held in the face vise, and that is not typical at all. For instance, he doesn't use a bench hook to cross cut a board, he holds it in the vise. Having the vise proud of the apron allows him to do that without cutting into his bench. I could go on about his unusual "vise centric" methods, but if you just watch him work in his videos you will see it for yourself. You have to judge for yourself if you want to emulate his methods, or go with the more common methods.
I modelled paul sellers workbench on ketchup plus a bench from Canadian Woodworker, but decided Split top Roubo hybrid was better. Easier to clamp to, the leg vice being flush to the side is awesome for planeing board edges. Basically Schwarz is the god here!
In your tool well put in a power supply and side shelves to hold bigger tools like a skill saw and for your vice at the far end add a chunk of 2X4 vertically with dog holes just like on the top so you can rest a long piece of wood and have support for the length of your board at both ends.
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Here is the link to the original workbench build video! th-cam.com/video/GzHMfhUK4R0/w-d-xo.html
LastingBuild laminate some hardwood onto the top of the bench. Should be easy and it’ll make your well deeper.
IDEA: WORKBENCH HEIGHT - Concrete floors are tough on feet. Instead of lowering your workbench why not add a cushioned base to stand on while at the bench. Think about trip hazard and you may want it to span between benches. Just an idea and worth twice what you paid for it. Good tips. Thanks. We are moving and a new bench is on my radar.
I find that horse stall mats are a cheap and easy way to ease back and joint paint from prolonged standing.
And if it's still a bit too tall, trim the legs to fit. Better too high than too low.
*Perfect size...much lighter than the one I owned previously **MyBest.Tools** Folds up nicely and holds adequate amount of weight for "around the house" projects.*
Yellow pine is softer but more dimensionally stable than a lot of hardwoods and its better having the bench dinged than the work.
Lots of great insight. One reason many woodworkers prefer a softwood bench top is if you drop a project on the bench, better for the bench to take the dent than the project. Something to consider.
That’s a really good thought!
That and 2x4s are cheap and easy to get.
I've had both hard and softwood benches. Would never go back to a hard surface. To me if it's a softer than the project that's a good thing. If you spend a month with a hardwood benchtop you would understand how much damage they cause. Soft and stable that's the perfect bench. Take no time at all to clean up or flatten a softwood top.
Flat workbench surfaces are where I love to store things, like my tools, and wood chips, and sawdust, maybe some pencils, measuring devices, some sort of finishing goo, that iced tea I was drinking, and pretty much anything else. When I run out of room there, I just put stuff on top of all that other stuff. Then I spend probably 3/4 of every project looking for stuff I literally just had in my hand. Wait, here it is, in my hand. This way when I finish a project, I can feel proud and say to myself, “I wonder if I can pay someone to clean this up.”
😂
I thought it was just me...😹
How dumb was I to build a small 2x4 storage box right next to the bench? Basically just turned into a trash can that I can reach into and pull a tool out of, while cutting the hell out of myself occasionally... To compensate I built a small band aid box holder on the inside leg of the bench 😅
I’m not so much a woodworker as a wood abuser. Having gotten back into the hobby after a number of years, I really appreciate hearing what someone would do different based on their experience of using the thing they built. Very informative. Thanks!
Thanks Scott!
I was told that after you make a work bench, the first thing you should do is take the largest mallet you have in the workshop and smack it down hard into the middle of the bench. That way you're not going to be afraid of actually using it after you've just taken the time to build it. Also, softwood takes damage much more easily than hardwood, which means your project isn't taking damage. Plus, if it's getting really scratched up, and it's becoming an issue, plane the surface a little, just don't forget to wallop it with a mallet when you're done...
Thanks for sharing! Since I built my bench in 2018 its taken many wallops!
Frithgar Amen
I suppose the issue some have is the vise is already flush with it ti begin with. Maybe the vise should be offset to account for future resurfacing?
Funny, that's what my dad told me about getting a truck. If its new and pretty take it on a quad trail and get a few scratches. That way you aren't afraid to use it to its potential.
Same about a hired hand wearing clean overalls. Throw some mud on him so you can get some work out of him.
You don't have to build another bench. Cut the legs to put the table at the height you desire. Inset the vise to make it flush to the side of the bench. Drill through the stringer to accommodate the screws for your end vise. Make a video on how you customized the Sellers bench to meet your needs.
Al Woods cut enough off the legs to allow you to add a hardwood top. This would also give you the extra depth in the tool well. Similarly fix a hardwood side rail to get the vice flush.
I was thinking that it would be simple to build the front out around the vise to make it flush, rather than re-mounting the vise. If you use hardwood for that piece it, the long top-front edge would be more ding-resistant. At the same time incorporate a sliding deadman with holdfast holes to support long work. Easy for me to say, right?
softwood tops will absorb blows to chisels etc, Hardwood benches will cause a rebound effect when you hit a tool with a mallet or hammer which will make repeated blows harder to line up and will have an effect on your hands , wrist joints , fingers which is an issue with my arthritis , just a different point to consider.
Frankly using mallet and chisel hurts my ears every blow. I wear ear protection. Seriously considering using a thin absorption matt to ease the sound and force
@@brandtl1486 I have my ear protection constantly in my shop. They are a type of Headphones so I have a podcast or tunes going.
I like the softwood too for the same reason. Plus dents don't bother me that much on the bench. Especially if it would have been the work instead
I would consider putting another Wilton vise to the right of the first one. Two vises make a big difference in the stiffness of the part you are working. It's a standard approach in machine shops for long parts. Lovely-looking workbench!
Very useful video thanks.
I built a solid oak workbench, fairly low, with a removable moxon vice for raising the sawing height and a sliding deadman for clamping bigger boards and doors. After 6 years of use I have 2 real regrets. First, I wish I had used a hardwood like beech with a bit more give for the top as it can be bouncy and very noisy when using a mallet. Secondly, I put in a large Record 53 as a tail vice, which is less useful than I expected and does cant too much when clamping at one edge of the bench. I am replacing this with a wagon vice as the design will not allow me to do most things that I need (the design will not accommodate a twin screw vice).
One thing is for sure, with all that you have learned. Your next Work Bench is going to be awesome. Hope you post the video.
I’ll never be able to decide on the design 😂
I used similar plans from Paul Sellers to make a plywood workbench. Totally agree with an overhang on the right side to allow for a larger vise. I did do that and can use dog holes with the vise to hold long pieces of wood in place.
I also use holdfasts on the front and back sides for long boards. On the front, I made a L-shape filler board the thickness of the vise gap and it rests on top of the bench easily to support longer boards. Works like a charm with a holdfast to give extra support on the right side of the vise.
Last modification was doing a smaller center well with more work surface on the other side. Original intent was to make the bottom easily removable for clamp access, but yet to do that, so I screwed the bottom in place for better stability.
Nice Review.
I resurface my heavy-ish MDF slab bench top with 3/4 maple flooring.
Tool wells have stuff sticking up that catches/damages the project and collects junk and debris. I made a couple of 6 inch deep x 16 inches long boxes with a small work surface off one box side (cantilever kind of thing) that has pegs glued underneath that drop into my dog holes. Boxes hang off the bench anywhere around the bench out of the way.
Designing my bench and I truly appreciate this input. I will be making modifications based on your regrets and comments. Nice work bro.
I’m building the Paul Sellers work bench now. Thanks for the honest input.
Your welcome! My workbench build series may be helpful to you!
I have a few thoughts that might help fix some of your issues:
1. When you're making your first bench designed for hand tool work, make it taller than you think you need it and trim the legs a little bit at a time till you find the right height. After that, any new bench just gets built to that height (or follow the same process, your call).
1a. Watch some of Rob Cosman's workbench building videos, he makes a "leg extender," for lack of a better term, it's basically a box that gets slid under the legs that raises the height to make it easier to work when sawing or chiseling, then remove them for planing. It's fitted tightly to the legs so that you don't get extra movement in the bench when pounding on a chisel with a hammer.
2. Cut a recess in the apron so that the rear jaw of your vise is flush with the apron. You may have to add material under the work surface to attach the vise.
not much you can do about the tool well, other than build a cover for it!
Hope these help...have a great weekend!
Thanks for sharing!
This video popped up when I was watching the Paul Sellers video on adding the sharpening shelf to his bench. I just finished my bench to his design. Several things I did differently are the height is 38" ( I'm 6'1 and this feels comfortable for me so far. I can always cut it down.) The bench top is 21" wide with a 4" wide well (Yeah I collect a lot of stuff on my bench top too. I figured it would help keep things organized). I made the length with the apron 12" longer than the plan with a 12" tail sticking out past the ends of the aprons. This gives me a bench 90" overall with 78" apron area. So far so good. I'll keep your comments in mind as I start working on my bench. Thanks for the bench review.
Thanks for sharing! I still use my Paul sellers workbench everyday
This makes sense and should be an idea people think of commonly. And if you wood work or even blacksmith( can go hand in hand) having something comfortable to stand on just makes sense. Good advice all around.
Thanks for the good counsel about building a (another) workbench. I purchased a small bench several years ago and need a larger, taller, heavier bench. I appreciate all the suggestions and gained awarenesses. I add to the challenges you've identified by being left handed. Believe it or not, virtually all benches, like tools, are designed for right-handed users. I didn't even think about the placement of the vises on my purchased bench until I started using them. They are on the wrong end and wrong side of the bench..., but they are for a southpaw. Thanks for all you share.
Your welcome! Your vises would be opposite of mine but would still work the same! I think!!
I have an old workbench, made in the 1970's by my dad. It is made of hardwood (unknown) and very heavy. I screwed 3/4" plywood to the top about 25 years ago to protect the original surface. I also fitted steel casters running on angle iron bolted to the shop floor, so that I can move the bench to access both sides. I use my bench for wood as well as metal work. for the metal work I bolted a piece of mild steel 12" x 18" 2" thick to the corner furthest from the woodworking vice. I added a metal working vice to the same end. As I do not have the luxury of other stands or tables, I fitted my bench grinder, belt sander and drill press to the side of the bench opposite the woodworking vice. This setup, although cramped has served me well for the past 25 years.
Good video - thanks for the advice from your experience. Kudos also to all your commenters! I am only half way through them and there’s a treasure trove of great advice from all of you who have commented!! 👍🏻👍🏻
👍thanks!
The “work too high when in the vice” is easily remedied by raising what you’re standing on - something like a sheet of plywood ripped in half and attached to the flat side of a simple 2x4 frame gets you up a cpl of inches - and can be used on sawhorses for an assembly surface when not standing on it. Your side vice could be inset into your top so you have that flush face/apron to support your work. The end vice- just breadboard the end w a 2-3 2x4s. As long as you mount them so the bench can move (Don’t glue stuff cross-grain -use long lags and elongated slots) it’ll work fine for you.
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A simpler solution for if your workbench is too high. Trim the legs and lower it a bit. It is wood after all.
Thanks for the video. I am a hand tool woodworker and have been doing so for 6+ years. Some things I've learned:
1. At 6' tall, I find the 36" height too short and wish the bench were taller. It works fine for hand planning but chisel work, sawing, etc is a bit uncomfortable. If I were to do it over again, I'd start at 40" height. FYI, Paul Sellers builds his bench at 39" height.
2. My bench is nestled up against the wall which works well for a multiuse garage. I'd much rather have a situation like yours where it is more in the open.
3. Mine is made from maple and happy with the hardness of the wood.
Hi! I like your suggestion to put dog holes along the edge of the bench to fasten long boards. I hadn't thought of that one! I did mount my vise so the face of the back jaw is flush with the edge of the bench, then as you said I use a bar clamp across the bench top to secure a long board or a door. But the bench top is ALWAYS cluttered with tools and materials that have to be moved aside to place that bar clamp. A dog into the edge! What a great idea.
Doug, glad to help! It’s amazing how much the workbench affects the workflow and overall satisfaction of the task at hand!
Suggestion for end vise: bore holes in the cross member to accommodate the vise shafts and screw. You won't lose significant strength and also won't increase overhang too much. jus' sayin'
Your points ring true with me, as I am currently dreaming about building a workbench. Thank You for sharing
A lot of decisions are involved with something so important as a woodworkers workbench! Good luck!
Nice video. I too am making the Paul Sellers workbench. Working on the leg joinery now.
I opted to make mine about 2 inches shorter than his - (his is 38 inches), I considered not having a tool well, but decided to go with a slightly smaller one (9.5 as opposed to 11). I know there is real potential for allowing clutter, but I am also determined to change habits. The well is useful, provided my habit is for temporary storage. I also opted for a wider bench top 14.5 inch rather than 12
Due to space concerns I also opted for a less long of a top. I should be ok with 55 inches.
Excellent video, showing a great ability to learn, and adapt! Your observation, about the softness, of the top, has caused me to adjust my own build plans. I didn't take the time to cruise the comments, so I may or may not be the 657th guy to suggest you consider a "Roubo" style bench, if you do build another workbench. You mentioned work-holding frustrations, and, I have to say; the guys who use Roubo benches, never have that concern, since every side, of the bench, including the legs, is a perfectly even clamping surface. Also, the familiar leg vise, combined, with it's partner, the sliding "deadman", is the most rock-solid method, of clamping a board, on-edge, that has eve been invented. My only modification, to the traditional variations, is the inclusion, of a wide "Veritas" vise, at one end. The vise installs easily, clamps about 18", between the bars, brings two points of contact, in opposition, to your dog holes, and resists racking. Well, that should be enough commentary, to light a firestorm, of abuse, from the armchair know-it-alls! Cheers!
I agree the Roubo style workbenches are nice!
Thanks, very informative! Workbench is like a fingerprint, they are unique for each person :) Since I don't have my own space for woodworking, I will build my first workbench (Roman workbench height) and it will be a regular bench on weekdays. The vises will be removable and can be stored underneath along with the bench dogs and clamps. Also, I will make the top removable from legs so I can carry it to the ground floor -- I live on the second floor.
Thanks for sharing!
Great follow-up. I loosely followed Paul's bench also, but gave up finding a suitable softwood since the big box store only seems to carry firewood grade. I used 8/4 poplar instead and it's held up fine. It's the cheapest hardwood on the market along with not being too hard to plane by hand. The one exception was the plank that holds the line of square dog holes--a 1by piece of oak. I also set the height at 40 inches., which alleviates shoulder strain from chisel work.
I do like working with poplar especially with hand tools! It has a really nice look as well.
I do like working with poplar especially with hand tools! It has a really nice look as well.
Totally agree proper bench height does matter. I was gifted a nice heavy duty bench and used it for many years. It had became problematic as i have aged. Being 6 ft and haveing low back problems was painful ended up adding rather large 4 in lock casters. Made a huge difference with mimimal cost. My youngest daughter wants the bench when im gone she is 5ft 7. So removing the casters will be easy. Thanks for the vice tips as i do not have one on my bench. Thanks for sharing:)
Thanks Regina!
Nice to hear that! Thank you Jim for all you do! Still working on the Shop remodel. Got all the junk thrown away. Now have to do the floor. Still 🥵 HOT!!!
Hopefully fall is coming soon
For me I like a tall bench. It saves my back.
I also love soft wood like a red pine because it doesn't bounce as much when using a chisel and if I do dent something I want it to be my bench not that custom cabinet I worked on for 20 hours.
I like to be able to grab around my work when using my vice. So I enjoy it not being flush. I have a 24 inch vice mind you so it's heavy duty and I like really clamping things down tight.
I have also seen a craftsman talk about how a hardwood bench can transfer more vibration back on the hands when using a mallet, since there is not much flex. My bench looks terrible, but it still works great so I have no complaints.
@@Wuffman
The way I see it is the make baseball bats out of ash and maple not cedar.
@@answeris4217 True, but the baseballs themselves are leather and string. Not everything need to be equally hard for it to work. (Great user name by the way)
*TopFineWoodworking. Com* is a fantastic website about wood working. I took various classes as well as finished a one year diploma in carpentry at a local tech college; this is much better than any book I worked out of during those lessons. It explains everything regarding woodworking as well as complements it with helpful photos.?
Just started wooodworking as a retirement hobby and am wrapping up a Paul Sellers workbench. At this stage I am trying to figure out a dogging system and find your video very useful. I ended up mounting a 7" Record vise on the side (as and endvise). It has a retractable metal top post to use with a doging system. Was lucky in that I made the bench longer (72 inches) and did leave the extra clearance to the legs to mount it. I plan to complement that vise with holdfasts in the top surface, in a similar way that you have. Instead of a front vise, I am making a crochet and will drill some dog holes and holfast holes in the side skirt. My concern is that the skirt may not be thick enough for the holdfasts and am wondering if I should re-enforce it. Comments and critiques welcome.
AlexM3J it should be easy enough to glue some backing material to the skirt if you find it’s needed! Thanks for your comment and welcome!
Great video, you hit on your concerns. I am currently rebuilding my bench, your experiences will be helpful. Some one already suggested using half inch hardwood top. I am also considering using a quarter inch Masonite top and then just replacing it as needed. Re tool well I suggest you use it as a tell for what needs it's own place. Like for example your mallets. Thanks for the Video.
Planing a door shouldn't be much problem on that bench, you could lay it on the floor and still be able to get an end in your vice, should be rock solid like that. My vice isn't flush on my bench, i ve found that a peg hole is enough to support the weight and my vice holds it well enough. Great clip and nicely made bench 👍👍
Thanks for sharing your experience!
I built a 900 mm wide workbench with a tool well in the middle and work surfaces either side. I used Australian red ironbark (because I live in Australia)for the bench top but any hardwood is better then pine.True, the well will become a depository for items but I built a full width, full length drawer with heavy duty slides to fit under the bench. I also fitted a twin screw vice and bought extra chain to bring it out to the full width of the bench.if you decide to put in a twin screw vice, try to design the bench to accomodate it. Utilising the twin screw vice I now have clamp which is as wide as the bench is long by putting 4 equally spaced holes in the wooden vice jaw and corresponding holes all the way along the bench top in 200 mm increments.True, the tool well will always fill up but we just have to be disciplined to deal with it. I keep most of my tools in the drawer as they are nice and handy and I don’t have to walk to the shelves to get any of them. Any body who puts their tool just used, away every time it is used would never get anything done. The main purpose of what we do is to enjoy what we do and to bring a beautiful object out of the chaos, whether it is too many tools or a thousand shavings on the bench. I built my bench trying to discipline myself to build something that is functional as well as being something that I can admire every time I look at it and believe me it was well worth it.
Thank you for the very thoughtful comment!
David Warren how did you go planing the ironbark?! You’re a brave man...
Ian Forrester. Well Ian, I dimensioned it through the thicknesser and guess what? I Have now installed a spiral cutter head for any future iron bark. The straight cutters don’t last long
Thank you for sharing we’re all in this together
If you add a hard top (say 1") to the bench that will automatically lower the tool well.
Then cut the legs to suits :)
Not sure why you'd need a super strong end vice - I don't believe they need that much strength just to hold the odd board for planing.
Then simply recess the existing euro vice into the bench - that is what Paul Sellers does on his original video.
Also, I personally love to see a few marks on a bench - it shows your wife that you are actually working in there!
Parafinn Lamp going to say the same thing also if the laminated top was longer would fix the end vice conundrum .
First world problems !
It’s quite simple to solve at least three of your issues. As regards height you could just cut an inch or inch and a half from the bottom of your bench legs this will allow you to shave or plane your lumber at your preferred height.
You could build a shelf or drawer underneath the bench to keep those tools which you use frequently but don’t need on the bench all the time.
Finally you could remove the vice and the cut and recess to allow the inside surface to become flush with the outer edge.
These are all easily done and are not complicated.
Totally agree, hes thinking inside the box ,and not outside the box. Not saying he Is dumb , sometimes you need another person or perspective to solve a problem
I dont care for the sellers table design because I like a larger full surface but I made mine out of poplar with walnut runners for the holdfast holes many years ago and its held up perfectly. I think the walnut runners keeps things even and helps it last. Everyone said it wouldn't last a year that was 5 yrs ago. Try the hardwood runner idea it worked for me.
Good idea!
Nothing better than white oak for a workbench. That is my opinion. Old-growth out of an old barn is my fav. Almost any wood will be softer than a tool edge.
Yeah I have a crappy old cutting board under my bench that I break out and put down on my bench for whenever I have to chop on it. I guess you could chop right on the surface of a workbench but that is going to eat it up. I don't care what it's made out of. Well maybe if you have a steel plate welding table that you woodwork on. Be hard on the tools then I'd imagine.
Finishing my bench up right now actually. I appreciate your comments, I did incorporate a leg vise and a sliding dead man (thanks to several youtuber vid’s). Also allowed room for the end vise. Where did you find your hold fast? I do like your idea on the tool tray and I will try to adapt something besides a.rolling cart (which fills up regularly). Again thanks for the video and comments you provide. BTW, I agree with others, saw those legs off that extra inch you want, why wait until the next build? Lastly, interesting concept of a hardwood overlay. Thanks again
I have a video reviewing the holdfasts. Thanks for sharing.
I’m about to build this same bench. One thing I’m doing with the front vise is making where it will clamp the work piece flush against the apron. The vise board will have dog holes in line with a few on the bench itself. This way it gives the vise a little more versatility having bench dogs to secure work pieces in different ways. Just my thought on the matter.
Since I read *TopFineWoodworking. Com* , I think nothing will ever surpass it as an outstanding woodworking book. The book consists of attractive images as well as drawings and also reader-friendly text. I consider this book a "must have" since it supplies a broad range of information on just about everything working with woodworking and does it quite well.?
Although, your video is 4 years old, I just got to see it today (so forgive me for the long reply because I get wordy).
I have a small shop and it is terribly organized with not enough room for a workbench.
The only workbench I have is one that I've inherited from my Father-in-Law. The bench is beautiful old Swedish (Sjobergs) workbench, and it's one of those you can purchase but to be honest I don't use it much and other than storing my hand planes, it doesn't do much for me. I put it on casters (which was a mistake) in order to be able to move it, but because the workbench is too light, whenever I do want to plane something on it then I have to brace the bench against something solid (like a wall) otherwise I'll be chasing the bench and whatever I want to plane around the shop.
While I think the Sjorbergs bench I have is beautiful and I love the vises, they don't work for me. Either because I'm either too dumb and/or perhaps because I don't know how to use the vises. I find that if I clamp a flat piece of wood on the vise to work on the edge, it doesn't clamp it hard enough for me to put pressure on it to plane without the piece moving. Maybe, I'm too much of a brute (probably true since 23&Me says I've got some Neanderthal in me).
In addition, my Table Saw area takes up nearly a 1/3 of my shop and if I need to do anything long at all I'll need to open the garage door. Although, I have a two car garage the garage has to serve at minimum of 3 functions (sometimes 4). The Laundry is in the garage, There is storage in the garage, my workshop is in the garage, the water heater is in there as well as the furnace and to top it all off my wife needs a workout area all this in a two car garage (not a true 2 car garage but one of those with the single door).
Anyway, all my whining is to say that I am looking for a solution and just because you can get something for free or cheap from someone, it may not necessarily be what you need and may cause you more of a headache than a solution.
Instead of holdfasts in my dog holes, I have 3/8" holes with 5/16" t-nuts underneath and a handful of various length bolts and pre-drilled 2x2s handy for holding things down. To make it even more useful, all of my benchtop tools are mounted to plywood with holes drilled in them so I can easily "clamp" them to the bench.
Mine is built from ash with a maple top. Love it, little marring even after 15 years. No tool holder because its a catch-all no matter how deep it is. I am surprised you did not research this before you went through the trouble of building one
Lessons learned videos are great. hindsight is 2020 so its nice to re visit the project after some time like you've done here. Thanks so much
👍
Rusty Boyer - I really liked the presentation. Just honest evaluation.
I can’t have a tool well! If his looks like that, I don’t want to find out how fast mine would fill up with crap leaving me with a too skinny bench top.
I'll be building a joiners workbench by the end of the Year. It will be 7' long by 3' wide and 40" high. I'll fit an apron vice and a tail vice. I won't bother with the tool well. I'll have a shelf beneath the top, 👍🔨🇮🇪
I think the 'junkdrawer' in the middle of the bench is actually useful if you are Highly disciplined . I am not ! So ... no . Keep clutter on a rolling cart . It's my best solution so far . 😉
For starters I don't have a work bench....at least NOT YET and by the way I am 55 years old and always wanted a shop and a work space AS WELL AS a work bench!! BUT with that being said my shop currently is only 8 foot by 8 foot to start with so I do a lot of my work outside. Currently I am working on designing a work bench that has pneumatic tires on it that swivel, and a jack system to "raise and lower" the bench onto and off of the tires (parked position)!! The idea being I can "jack up" the bench and move it in and out of my shop, and once I have it where I want it or need it, I lower it back onto the legs to "mount it" in a "parked position" to use it!! Another reason to use pneumatic tires is because my shop exits into my yard, where normal casters would just sink into the ground!!! So I need a tire that will ride on top of the grass!!
Further another reason for my design is I often find myself being asked to help my step son who lives in the next county over. So it would be awesome to have a work bench I can "lift up" roll up into the bed of my truck (fully loaded) and roll it up my ramps, then "strap it in" for the ride to his home as a "enclosed unit"!! This way I can visit him when he needs help with a project with all the tools I need in ONE location and just wheel it where I need it at will!!
Here on TH-cam, there is a guy who built a work bench that has a tow hitch (receiver hitch) off a truck mounted to it!! The receiver style hitch can that be used to mount tools to it like a shop vice or certain saws as needed and the "receiver" part of it can be modified to hold any number of tools if you use a bunch of different receiver ends that can be "changed out as needed"!! In other words one receiver can be attached to a bench vice and the next can have a grinder mounted to it, or even a small drill press and so on, this way you can interchange tools quickly as you need them, and they store them away later when you don't need them to give you your work space back!! I thought it was a wonderful idea!!
Another thing I am thinking about doing is "reversing" a ceiling mounted drop cord self reeling system!! We have all seen those "pull down" cord reels that hang from your shop ceiling in many shops. BUT if you switch the ends so the female plug is on the "down" or "reel side" and the male end is on the "extension" or "pull out" side, then attach THAT to your work bench as a "self winding extension cord" to power your work bench. Simply because when I work I always seem to end up in my yard because I have way more space than in my 8 foot by 8 foot shop!! And having to wind up a cord gets to be a pain that I have dealt with for years now!!
Lastly I have a wood rack in my shop!! It isn't huge mind you, and I used a French Cleat to hold it to the top of my wall which my wall height IS ALSO 8 feet tall with a Gambrel Roof. So I have more than enough wood storage!! So I want my work bench to have tool cabinets on board and use barrel locks to keep them locked as it moves!! Space in my tiny shop is a premium so anything I can do to make things "portable and self contained" helps!!
Consider making a toolbox that will fit inside your tool well and can hold everything that sticks up too high. Then when it comes time to use the whole bench for clamping or assembly, you just need to move that one box full of stuff out of the way.
I don't buy vises, I built a leg vise on the front of the bench and a Molson vise on the end. With dog holes and removable crochets I can hold most everything. Totally agree with the need for a deep tool well for the same reasons. As to your soft top I've done two different things at various times. I've topped it with 1/4 " Masonite, and I've applied several layers of 50-50 thinned oil based polyurethane. The last commercial shop I worked at before retirement had all the benches covered with plastic laminate and oak rimmed. All three added to durability in some way and frankly depended on the user. My final commercial bench top withstood me building hundreds of things for Walmart stores out of a vast variety of materials. Pretty worn around the edges from sliding things about and lots of faded math problems. Others benches had been refinished several times because of sloth and slop. As in much of life it's the person not the tool.
That’s really interesting suggestions! Would love to see a pic of that old bench. Thanks.
Not to be rude
I have used old countertops for bench tops. You can draw right on them and then either erase it or sand it off. They clean up pretty easy too.
I also have a Paul Sellers bench and the only thing I would agree is the flush face vice. I'm not set on the protruding vs face and would like to try having it on the face. Some stuff Paul never used are holdfasts and I've barely seem him use a planing stop. I've adapted mine to use those. The tool well needs discipline. I have boxes under the bench for random crap and always the same always at hand stuff on the bench: my bench planes, chisels, hammer and mallet, squares. Everything else comes and goes as soon as it's job is done.
Can you just cover/layer the top of the bench with hardwood? This change would result in deepening the tool trough by whatever hardwood thickness you add. Once you have settled on the material thickness, you can then shorten the legs to get the desired plane height.
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I was also thinking of making this workbench. The thing i was not sure about was the tool well. I almost wanted to loose the tool well and make the top bigger. The thing I’m not sure how to approach is choosing the vise. Good video good advise to consider.
Glad I could help!
Very good information. Thanks for sharing. Hard top versus soft top benches could be argued all day long, but if you decide to use soft, consider using an inlay of hard wood (length of bench) where you cut the dog holes. The remains scratches I can live with, that is what my bench is for...not furniture.
Good points!
After watching several videos on work benches, I believe that mine will have adjustable legs so the height can be changed if necessary. You make a great point about your power stroke when planing and it would be nice to be able to change that height as needed.
Adjustable height bench will not be a stable bench. I wouldn't.
Paul sellers lowers the rail so a tail vise fits
Good tips on the height and the work surface.
thank you . and yup i had my work bench for 2 yrs . i really want to make a new one . well it was fun to make
Workbench pathos exists.
I like a larger flat surface on my work bench and 2 vices in case i need to hold a long piece . Instead of the the trough i use a 4" x 3 ' box that i keep common used items at the work bench ( Screw drivers, calipers , pencils, squares, small pieces of sand paper, flash light, allen wrenches , etc,. It can be removed easily and set aside so i can throw something on the work bench for glue up etc. My workbench is not as traditional as yours but much more versatile . I made mine of yellow pine also . I nail, glue , epoxy , or what ever and about twice a year i take the power planer and belt sander to it and it looks new again. 10 years so far and holding its own. Good video , you sort of have to build your workbench to what you uses are and sometimes it it evolves as you go. My thoughts are keep it simple of front , build a bench a see how it works for you . Your next bench will be even better.
I really thought hardwood was the better choice, and planned to compromise on cost by using oak, which is a little more affordable here, north of Atlanta. However, I recently saw Jay Bates' comment about his terrible mistake building his with hickory: no give; especially when chiseling, but any prolonged hammering is exhausting because of the spring back. I'm grateful to learn from his experience, and now am looking at southern pine. jus' sayin'
Hickory is famous for having high vibration and stiffness. Used for baseball bats and drum sticks for example. Birch and maple have more give with less high frequency vibration. White oak or Doug fir could be a good compromise.
Real value in this long-term review/lookback. Thanks!
Thanks! Glad it’s helpful for you!
This was really very helpful. I'm thinking of building a new bench. Downsizing a little.. So, you confirmed what I was thinking about the depth of the tool well too.
Glad to help! Good luck with your build!
The video was great thanks and so are the earlier comments. I made my bench a bit like a heavy duty sjobergs workbench made entirely from oak. In retrospect that oak top is too rigid and is a bit bouncy and noisy when chiseling as it does not absorb any of the impact, especially with a hard mallet. If i made a new bench I would probably choose beech for the top. The other thing that I would change is that I used a Record 52E as a tail vice with jaws the full width of the workbench. A twin screw would be better, but I think a Veritas tail vice would be better suited to what I do. Adding a sliding deadman is worthwhile too and i am glad I did this.
Hey Jim here is my advice as it pertains too the forward tool well. In your next shop bench do not make a well any longer-wider-deeper. Instead eliminate it all together. Keep the bench top completely flat with no obstructions. That way it will be dedicated solely for the purpose it is intended for. The deeper the well the more stuff you will accumulate in that trough. Trust me it will happen. So forget the trough and its best in general to eliminate all flat surfaces in the shop as they become all too convenient to get sloppy by simply laying a tool or scrap there instead of putting it away in a dedicated cabinet /shelf/etc. flat surfaces are junk magnets
Harleymike/chicago
I hear you! Flat surfaces are the first to get cluttered!
Crazy. Flat surfaces ARE for setting crap on.
JuiceBanger1 You are absolutely right and nobody is more guilty of that then yours truly Knowing my sloth-like habits I make a point of returning most all of my tools to their proper storage location after leaving the shop for that session and 100% of the tools are stored properly after the particular project is finished in its entirety
I only acquired this habit in the last 5 years and I am 70 yrs old so you can imagine the years and years I wasted so much time looking fir a particular tool or sized screw. And or the frustration of having to work around all that clutter. I find that returning to the shop is so much more pleasant now that I don’t have to clean off my work bench or table saw in order to do something. And of course where did all that stuff go when i made room on my work bench? Another flat surface. Haha. They are magnets for sure. Other than those needed for utilitarian purposes I eliminate them because even though I have improved my housekeeping tremendously over the past few years I cannot say I am fully cured nor do I expect to ever be! I need to i stall spikes on my remaining flat tops like the ones they use to keep pigeons from perching on building edges etc.
michael dunn, the pigeons always seem to find a way to work around those spikes, I'm sure we woodworkers can too.
John Lowes ha John right you are unfortunately and even though I preach a good lesson I don’t always practice it myself. It is a constant struggle in my workshop to keeping it tidy but I appreciate the results after the battle is fought and won
I'm going to be making a workbench, so I've been watching a lot of videos. One thing that I haven't seen mentioned, at least not explicitly, is that most people need both a workbench (narrow - usually about 2' wide) and an assembly surface (as wide as you can manage). Given that most workbenches have a "front" (with the vise) and a back, I'm planning to put a fold-up assembly addition on the back - just 3/4" plywood. Thoughts?
I've been experimenting with a plan to have separate waste wells and tool wells, making for a slightly deeper bench and leaving no surface gaps above about eight inches. This would provide better support underneath a removable assembly shelf, which itself could then safely overhang one end and the front or back of the bench by a couple of inches. I'm focusing on how to maximise the available assembly area, for example to accommodate the construction of a kitchen cupboard or similar sized build while still leaving me room to work on other things. Also I want to stop smaller tools and parts getting lost in wood shavings and sawdust.
A removable tool well would be sweet, like those older wooden open top tool carriers. Easy to dump out to clean and start over
For a work surface, simply screw a piece of hardboard to the top. When it gets all dinged up, flip it over. To inset your vise, screw a board, of the right thickness, to your skirt.
All good points. I am about to build my bench. I will keep all of this in mind. Thanks.
1. Southern yellow pine gives great splinters. But if that doesn't bother you, relax and enjoy the fact that your work surface, compared to oak or maple, is a "dead anvil." Blacksmiths always want lively anvils, but woodworkers who chop and saw want dead ones. You don't want your mortise chopping strokes bouncing half way back up to your shoulder, you want the full force of your mallet strike to be absorbed into the workpiece. And build a cheap plywood work table for assembly, glue-up and finishing to keep your work surface nicer.
2. You don't need to use temporary spacers with your front projecting vise. Just build up the apron of your bench until the rear jaw is flush with the new apron. Problem solved. You'll also want to build out the front legs until it is all in the same vertical plane as the rear jaw of your vise.
3. You don't need to power through edge planing. In fact, you should be bending over a lot to judge edge planing, so closer to the eyeball is easier. If face planing is taking too much muscle power grind a plane blade on a curve, maybe an 18" radius, for roughing in. Use it at 45 deg. going in one direction down the workpiece, then at 45 deg. to the other way, going back. Saves a lot of effort. Bump the sole of your plane with furniture wax ir Crisco every 10 strokes. Old timers had a "fat box" slightly larger than the plane's sole. They filled it with lard (today:Crisco) and regularly bumped the sole in it.
Good luck.
The flush vs. proud vise is something to think about. I do like the idea of easily placing something in a proud vise (Seller's method) but at time like it being flush, especially if I were going to do something long as you pointed out. 95% of what I do is quite small so a proud vise works well and have one mounted flush and one mounted proud (side and end vises).
Excellent points, was about to start my bench top today. Now you got me thinking. I hate that. Lol
I share the bench with my father, he's 5'4" I'm 5'11", bench height is a challenge.
Glad to help or at least make you think before building!
If I had your bench and want a hardwood top, i would buy 5/4 boards of my wanted surface and adhere it to the existing surface, re-drill the fast hold holes and cut down the legs height to whatever is your height is, easy peasy and be done with it in no time.
I also would put a new apron from the same hardwood and recess the vise in it (that’s how I did mine)...
Good luck with your ambition, it will cost you a lot less...
Just an opinion but having tried several options I much prefer a higher bench than most. I'm 5'4" and my bench is 36". With a sharp, well set plane I can take shavings at that height for hours, I find I don't need to put any downward force on it to take good shavings. If I find myself trying to lean on it, that's my hint to sharpen it. I plane quite a lot and the height is fine, though it took a little getting used to after I initially started out with the sort of low bench that many advocate. I would argue that most people lean over their plane because their bench is low, not because a well tuned plane requires it. Best of all for all other tasks from saw sharpening, mortice cutting and so on I find the higher bench is great for my posture and I can get a really close view to small details.
I don't tend to use an end vice so that wouldn't bother me but if you like them I can see why you'd want the bench a bit longer.
I prefer the front vice mounted away from the apron as I can get my fingers behind stuff that I put in it which I find less fiddly and irritating. As you pointed out you can use a space behind a large piece but I built a removable bench leg after seeing a Simon James video and on the rare occasion I need it it works really well. I've attempted to stick a link here if you are interested.
th-cam.com/video/-n_qRQlakTw/w-d-xo.html
Thanks for the good video, some interesting stuff to think about.
Tool well: No bench I build will have a tool well; it is just a trash can that fills with tools buried in sawdust.
Bench height: There are a number of designs for adjustable-height benches, but they all seem too fiddly to me-not to mention not as stable as something with more-solid legs.
Face vice: Paul Sellers doesn't like flush-mounted face vices, but I wouldn't have it any other way. I've never understood his objections to them.
End vice: When I built my bench, I installed an end vice, but like most every woodworker I've talked to, I never use it.
Thanks for sharing!
Tools end up on my workbench anyways. So what's the difference if they're right on it, or in a well?
Shelf underneath for tools in use keeps the full working surface clear. Seems like a simpler solution.
@@ibuylbk3298 I have one of those. I should probably find different places to store what's on that. It still wouldn't work for tools I'm using though. What I'm using has to be right on the bench itself. Though lately I've taken to keeping a selection of hand planes on my radial arm saw table.
I built a 48 x 28 inch bench that sits under my plane and saw till. It has a twin screw vice on it and sits 3 inches higher than the rest on the wall bench. Use it to cut joints and shooting boards. With the tool wall behind it easy to put tools back when not using. Keeps my primary bench open for planing. The higher bench is perfect for chisel work and easier for me to cut dovetails.
You can recess the Wilson vice to make it flush, just set it low and rabbet the inner jaw to also sit over the top of the jaw so it’s flush with the top. Also you just auger holes for the side vice screw and rods. If you do it right it makes it stronger.
You may be able to set the face vise you have further into the bench: I don't know what the back looks like, but it would be worth looking into.
To be honest, that's my biggest concern with a Paul Sellers style of bench: I really want that face vise to be flush with the front of the bench. I'm using a leg vise right now, and it's fantastic.
You also could almost certainly install a wagon vise as your end vise. It's more limited, but at least it'll give you SOME workholding ability at that end!
Grizzly sells oak workbench tops 1 1/2” tho you could glue to your existing top. Drill your dog holes thru from bottom.
Cut 3” from legs and you end up with the height 1.5” lower and a deeper tool well and hardwood top. Glue/screw spacer to edge of your table the thickness of your edge vise.
Thank you for this video.
I've been watching workbench build videos for a couple of weeks, and I'm glad I did.
As soon as I watched, I wondered if you'd considered adding to the front of the workbench top a piece to make the vise flush with the bench face.
Glad you enjoyed it!I have considered that!
Have you thought of gluing a harder wood plank on top (flat). You would have to drill your dowel holes but not too hard. I would try a 1/4 plywood and just a thought maybe use something less permanent than glue and just replace it when it’s too far gone. If you do glue it you could make grooves and then remove it easily with a chisel and a plane. I’m sure there are flaws with my idea but something to think about. I have the same problem and that is my current solution. I like your height idea. Sounds like the right thing to do.
I'd recommend setting up dog holes so that you can place planing stops in an L-shape. (this works well for the rough work with a jack or scrub plane).
To mount an end vise, you might consider using a thick chop on the vise face. This allows you to put a dog hole in there (I use a wooden dog rather than the metal dog on the vise), and uses up some of the capacity that might otherwise interfere with the leg. If worse came to worse, you can probably cut down the rails and screw on your vise (I never use the full capacity of my end vise).
I’m in the planning stages on my “retirement workbench “ so far the best info I’m getting is from “The workbench book” by Scott Landis and of course “The Workbench Design Book” by Chris Schwarz. I like Paul Sellers bench but agree it had some short comings but it’s a damn fine bench design non the less. Thanks for the info !
Thanks for sharing! Good luck with your bench!
Thanks for sharing! Good luck with your bench!
Having had different benches I prefer softwood tops vs hardwood. Soft wood marks up more than the wood I’m working with, its quieter and less rebound when working with chisels. It’s a small price to pay to refinish or flatten slightly more often
According to Mike Siemsen a bench should be tall enough to reach all the way up under your work.
Seriously tho, I saw an article years ago that suggested starting with the measurement from the floor to the bend in your wrist when standing with arms relaxed at your side. IIRC that's about 32" for me, I'm 6 ft.
I will not be having a tool well on my future bench (most likely a Nicholson) as I don't want to be digging through shavings searching for a chisel.
Good info!
I really appreciate your suggestions. I keep procrastinating my workbench build because I'm afraid I'll make some design decision that I will regret later on. So I keep looking at different workbench concepts and can never get around to actually building one. I guess I will just have to commit to one and live with it, and the one that I am going to do is the Paul Sellers plywood version.
I'm not trying to start a bench-height war here but you mentioned that yours is 34" and if you made another bench you would make it even lower. I'm sure you are aware that both of the benches designed by Paul Sellers are 38". I am wondering if you have ever tried a 38" work height? It seems to me that when planing you are not so much concerned with downward force as you are with lateral force and with a 38" work height you don't have to bend over so far to get your shoulder behind the plane. Even before I came across Paul's workbench design I "accidentally" discovered that 38" worked well for me. While insulating and drywalling my shop I needed a work platform to reach the ceiling and built a 4'x8' platform out of 2x4s and OSB that was 38" high. This has become my "temporary" workbench and I find that this height is very comfortable for me (I am also 5'10").
Good luck with your build!
If you use hard wood for the top it will get dinged up, it will just take longer and will be harder to plane out. I built mine like a joiners bench with holes on the side for pegs. That way you can put the end of the board in the end of the vice and lower it to the right height for you.!
Nice build & video, Maybe Lower the vice not the bench ... put baskets in the well (like the old letter or legal size type) and "MAKE" a french cleat shelf with a lip at an angle to store the baskets for organization and easy reach to utilize frequently used items. AND for the end vice if you really want one... to add on the extra few inches peg with steel rods or put it on a rolling stand that anchors with the work bench...
I'd install a leg vise on the diagonal corner on the other side of his bench to plane wide boards in. They can have really deep throats.
That is a nice workbench ,and you are in the future going to build another one out of hard wood random thoughts are why build complete new one why not put 1" 1/2 or more hard wood on top of the existing bench and before that cut the legs to the desired length then put the hard wood topping on ?
I can't remember the guys name that built a real nice hickory workbench but regrets it because his arms literally tingle when chiseling. He said it is too hard.Torched wood hardens the surface. Therefore, I am going to use regular lumber but torch burn the surface to make it hard. You scrape off the deep char, sand a little, then coat it with linseed oil or something. The absorbing feature of the softer wood underneath will take the shock from hammering or chiseling. Thanks for the info about a deeper tool well. Or use hardwood for the top but use softer wood for the legs like laminated 2x6 or 2x8 to absorb shock.
I think that might have been Jonathan Katz-Moses, though I could be wrong. You could probably also solve this by adding a layer of 1/2" oak or something similar to the top of the bench. You'd get the durability at the surface, but still have the softer wood below it for more flex.
@@andrewwarwick2831 Good idea.
Jay bates I believe is who you’re referring to, he did a pine bench then the same thing in hickory.
@@eizzle78 YES THAT IS THE GUY! THANKS
@@andrewwarwick2831 I laminated 1"x2" dimensional lumber as a base, planed it flat then put old but unused maple flooring on top of that. Great shock absorption and very few dings on the top.
Beautiful bench! For the time being use some plastic tubs,or build some covered boxes under the bench to clear the bench clutter. Or build a stack of drawers on wheels that could be rolled under the bench. And then another stack of drawers, we keep getting more stuff. Right? I use old dressers, desks and cabinets....but you are more of a craftsman than I am. I'm sure you would rather build your own. Great videos! Thanks!
I have thought about putting a shelf below with some drawers!
Great tips 👍. Thanks for sharing the mistakes you made in building your workbench. I would’ve not thought of the clearance needed for the end wise.
Nice bench. If you want to mount that heavy duty vice all you need to it is add wood to thicken the table top (underneath) to even with the cross bar. That will give you one level to work with
Go with beech when you rebuild that top. I made my work bench top out of solid beech and I’ve never needed to refinish it. Ive been using it for 35 years. It’s solid and not that costly. The Swedes used beech on theirs a thousand years ago. I do use protection on it when I use any chemicals on the bench.
Cool! not sure where to get it though!
I like the deeper tool well. It's a great idea! Thanks for sharing the upgrade ideas!
-Will
You bet!
I left a comment on Sellers' video in which he mounted the vise to his bench. I said that I did not like having the vise proud of the apron, which leaves the workpiece unsupported. He responded as he does to all criticism, which is to be dismissive. He later posted a video to defend the proud vise mounting position, and it contains a lot of falsehoods. There is one key thing to note about his bench, and that is that it fits his unusual working methods. He does almost everything with the workpiece held in the face vise, and that is not typical at all. For instance, he doesn't use a bench hook to cross cut a board, he holds it in the vise. Having the vise proud of the apron allows him to do that without cutting into his bench. I could go on about his unusual "vise centric" methods, but if you just watch him work in his videos you will see it for yourself. You have to judge for yourself if you want to emulate his methods, or go with the more common methods.
I modelled paul sellers workbench on ketchup plus a bench from Canadian Woodworker, but decided Split top Roubo hybrid was better. Easier to clamp to, the leg vice being flush to the side is awesome for planeing board edges. Basically Schwarz is the god here!
In your tool well put in a power supply and side shelves to hold bigger tools like a skill saw and for your vice at the far end add a chunk of 2X4 vertically with dog holes just like on the top so you can rest a long piece of wood and have support for the length of your board at both ends.