Fantastic! BRT is a super-effective way to start increasing our transit network capacity in a (relatively) low-cost way. Fully support. Great job TransLink.
I think overall these BRT routes will be a great addition to the network, excited to have these as an option for Translink to implement where they make sense. Not as great as a train or dedicated tram line would be, but a step in the right direction as the main problem with busses is they get stuck in the same traffic as cars and these BRT routes should solve that. I especially like the "just show up" approach as that makes transit 10x better and hopefully will convince some folks to use it rather than drive.
BRT for Maple Ridge - Langley seems to be an overkill. It's true that this route needs more frequent bus service, but I don't think BRT infrastructure is needed there at this time. The main issue in Maple Ridge are bus frequency on connecting routes (from/to 701, or R3). Some buses run only 4 times a day.
My main critique would be the North Shore one should realistically be a skytrain, a BRT doesn't feel like it is enough. Better than nothing I suppose, and if it could easily be upgraded to a Skytrain path in the future this might work as an intermediary step, but a train in the future is honestly a must.
A SkyTrain line to the North Shore is planned but realistically won't be here for 10-15 years. A BRT system can be retrofitted in only a couple of years.
@@cmmartti Yeah, short term it is great. I just hope that it does not become an excuse/reason to delay the long term solution of a train by spending money on a BRT. If it does not affect the future Skytrain timeline then I am all for it
For your King George Rapid bus, put a bus stop at King George and Hwy 10! King George and then South Surrey Park and Ride is a little bit too far of a gap. You will see a lot of passengers making request stop at Hwy 10.
Rapid bus is the current implementation: longer distance between bus stops, but the bus itself is still mixed with car traffic. BRT is the bridge between rapid bus and skytrain: longer distance between bus stops, but most of the route runs on dedicated bus only lanes (thus avoiding car congestions) and should in theory be faster than driving during peak hours
Can't happen too quickly! And what about a BRT or Rapid Bus, paralleling the West Coast Express service, out to Mission? That rail transit should be expanded to all-day, bi-directional service, but until the rail company can be made to play ball, a bus could fill the gap.
Agreed - West Coast Express would be so much better of it was a real heavy-rail transit option, not just a limited "rush hour helper" for people with office jobs downtown.
I’ve seen that the only all day directional service they can serve is all stops except the Waterfront segment, possibly helpful but it dumps most of the riders to a transfer at Moody Centre or Coquitlam Central
These are great, tho I'm still just not sold that the north shore BRT will be worth it considering we should have a new SkyTrain line there by 2040 if everything goes right. Feels like just extending the R2 is the right choice here. Also feel like we need an actual solution to getting downtown Surrey and Langley. Really hope the province does look into a regional rail project
I live on the North Shore. We're in dire need of it in my opinion, and not by 2040. I'm also skeptical that we'll even get a Skytrain here by 2040. There's been talks about it for decades and nothing has ever come of it. The BRT is a nice stop gap.
I posted my critique elsewhere in the comments, and like many North Shore folks, I am not convinced it can surmount the real problems. TL;DR version of it: 1) There at not that many people from here who need to go to Metrotown area in particular and who have no other option like Seabus + Expo Line; 2) the real problem is getting to the major hubs where the Rapid Bus would even link up especially in a traffic jam situation, and 3) until the 1st or 2nd Narrows bridges get replaced, they shall remain choke points limiting the capacity of anything to cross the water.
@@roadrunner2324 I say 2040 considering that atm we have done about one SkyTrain per decade, and recently it's been 2. So my hope is that it would continue :/
West Van/North Shore BRT to Metrotown is not very useful. Even the "rapid" buses crossing the North Shore are not that rapid at all (too many stops compared to a normal bus), and going to Metrotown from the Phibbs side is not that much of a market. Most people going from west of central North Van or West Van will simply get to the Expo line either via Seabus (North Van) or via LGB to Granville or Burrard station (West Van). Only Lynn or Seymour (eastern North Van) would have any natural inclination to go to Metrotown or even Brentwood or BCIT via Phibbs. The real problem on the North Shore is actually getting to the key transit hubs (Park Royal, Lonsdale Quay, or Phibbs), the slow & inefficient part of the journey. Even living as I do by two major bus routes offering multiple options to reach the Quay or Phibbs, at its very fastest, transit will be twice as slow to reach Metrotown as a car. Now, if there is a stall or crash on Second Narrows (a frequent problem), no amount of bus frequency or "Express" status will help once all the bridge feeder routes jam up; buses will be there one every city block or two, but moving slower than a walking pace. Planners allowed too many new buildings to encroach on key east-west arterials with no easements, making the adding of bus lanes basically impossible unless you start tearing existing buildings down. Granted, cars would suffer from this too, but it is at that point you'd say "F it" and either get to the Quay & Seabus, or hop on a bike. The point is, the hodge-podge of "rapid bus" dream is retrained by 1) the fact the bridges on the North Shore are not getting any wider, so capacity for moving anything will remain limited until finally they face the nightmare job of replacing one or both bridges; 2) the devotion of city councils to enact all sort of development plans which actually interfere with key transit arterials like Marine Drive and Lonsdale. They are not opening those arterials, they are still pushing plans which will choke them off even more, transit be damned (along with almost everyone else).
Extending R2 from north van to Metrotown is a bad idea, too many traffic on this route including lions gate bridge, second worker, Hasting street and not to mention willngdon ave which could make this route extremely unreliable and cause delays. I think the better way is make a new rapid bus to replace 222 and placed bus lane along willingdon ave.
So, what would happen to the R1? Especially service east of Surrey Central? I think extending R1 should be a higher priority especially in both directions to #WhiteRock and #Coquitlam than upgrading the corridors for BRT and only extend to #WhiteRock. Even without the longer travel times between the Tri-Cities and #Surrey due to switch changes, I think better use of resources should go towards extending the R1 in both directions instead of one direction. As some others said, Metrotown-North Shore BRT is rather questionable that extending the R2 would be the more ideal interim solution for a North Shore #SkyTrain. Rather save resources for a future #SkyTrain link with a #RapidBus extension than wasting on fancy BRTs that will soon be upgraded to #SkyTrain.
Sounds wonderful except for the fact that Metrolink is already saying that if they cannot get more funding they will be cutting routes by the end of this year
Bus rapid transit for maple ridge is great not stoked about the more limited service outside of peak periods though compared to other parts of the region Maple ridge always gets shafted when it comes to resources and scheduling. I use to think Coquitlam’s transit system was bad because most buses run every 30 minutes hourly on weekends / holidays compared with the other tri city’s Surrey buses typically run every 10-15 minutes Then I moved to ridge the standard in ridge meadows is way lower my god what is up with the shuttle bus service no buses into the evening weekend or holidays or weekend mornings and if they are running they come every hour we still have some buses that come every two hours Thought this would at least be fixed by the time the R3 rapid bus came around and it never happened People need to be able to get to and from the transit exchange to make their trips getting home on transit is just as important as getting to where you are going, if our local service is non operational it is very difficult for us to do that people still work on holidays and weekend buses need to be running no one wants to pay for a taxi every time Also the new shuttle buses with less seats bad move these vehicles at least in my part of town are usually at capacity and people get passed up we need more seats on these routes not less My bus is the 746 / 745 specifically I have been giving feed back in this for more than 8 years very little has been done to improve these conditions where does all the money go seriously there are increases in fare and taxes constantly Also why have we still not gotten a compass card mobile app so we can use I fare card via smart phone long over due every other major city is already doing this we already have the infrastructure in place to do this wasted tax dollars
How is this better than the b-line, rapid bus or a glorified bus? Call it whatever you want. It’s still a bus. Build a skytrain down king george instead.
The Maple Ridge Langley BRT will not be open intil the SLS is open sometime after 2030. The Surrey BRT can be opened within a year if they just upgrade the present curb lanes on KGB that are being used by the existing R1 RapidBus. The cost would be $20 to $30 M vs the proposed centre lanes BRT of $300 M. BRT on KGB will not be 40% faster than the present R1 or 394 buses, maybe 10% faster.
Fantastic! BRT is a super-effective way to start increasing our transit network capacity in a (relatively) low-cost way. Fully support. Great job TransLink.
I think overall these BRT routes will be a great addition to the network, excited to have these as an option for Translink to implement where they make sense. Not as great as a train or dedicated tram line would be, but a step in the right direction as the main problem with busses is they get stuck in the same traffic as cars and these BRT routes should solve that. I especially like the "just show up" approach as that makes transit 10x better and hopefully will convince some folks to use it rather than drive.
BRT for Maple Ridge - Langley seems to be an overkill. It's true that this route needs more frequent bus service, but I don't think BRT infrastructure is needed there at this time. The main issue in Maple Ridge are bus frequency on connecting routes (from/to 701, or R3). Some buses run only 4 times a day.
My main critique would be the North Shore one should realistically be a skytrain, a BRT doesn't feel like it is enough. Better than nothing I suppose, and if it could easily be upgraded to a Skytrain path in the future this might work as an intermediary step, but a train in the future is honestly a must.
A SkyTrain line to the North Shore is planned but realistically won't be here for 10-15 years. A BRT system can be retrofitted in only a couple of years.
@@cmmartti Yeah, short term it is great. I just hope that it does not become an excuse/reason to delay the long term solution of a train by spending money on a BRT. If it does not affect the future Skytrain timeline then I am all for it
For your King George Rapid bus, put a bus stop at King George and Hwy 10! King George and then South Surrey Park and Ride is a little bit too far of a gap. You will see a lot of passengers making request stop at Hwy 10.
metrotown to north shore needs to be a skytrain
wait what is the difference between rapid bus and brt? isn't it both brt? why different name?
Rapid bus is the current implementation: longer distance between bus stops, but the bus itself is still mixed with car traffic.
BRT is the bridge between rapid bus and skytrain: longer distance between bus stops, but most of the route runs on dedicated bus only lanes (thus avoiding car congestions) and should in theory be faster than driving during peak hours
@@GarretTheShadow cool thanks for the answer
Translink Why do you put Vaisakai ad wrap on a bus every Year?
Can't happen too quickly! And what about a BRT or Rapid Bus, paralleling the West Coast Express service, out to Mission? That rail transit should be expanded to all-day, bi-directional service, but until the rail company can be made to play ball, a bus could fill the gap.
Agreed - West Coast Express would be so much better of it was a real heavy-rail transit option, not just a limited "rush hour helper" for people with office jobs downtown.
@@wyldhowl2821 There was a Train-Bus ; but TransLink discontinue it.
I’ve seen that the only all day directional service they can serve is all stops except the Waterfront segment, possibly helpful but it dumps most of the riders to a transfer at Moody Centre or Coquitlam Central
These are great, tho I'm still just not sold that the north shore BRT will be worth it considering we should have a new SkyTrain line there by 2040 if everything goes right. Feels like just extending the R2 is the right choice here. Also feel like we need an actual solution to getting downtown Surrey and Langley. Really hope the province does look into a regional rail project
I live on the North Shore. We're in dire need of it in my opinion, and not by 2040. I'm also skeptical that we'll even get a Skytrain here by 2040. There's been talks about it for decades and nothing has ever come of it. The BRT is a nice stop gap.
I posted my critique elsewhere in the comments, and like many North Shore folks, I am not convinced it can surmount the real problems. TL;DR version of it: 1) There at not that many people from here who need to go to Metrotown area in particular and who have no other option like Seabus + Expo Line; 2) the real problem is getting to the major hubs where the Rapid Bus would even link up especially in a traffic jam situation, and 3) until the 1st or 2nd Narrows bridges get replaced, they shall remain choke points limiting the capacity of anything to cross the water.
@@roadrunner2324 I say 2040 considering that atm we have done about one SkyTrain per decade, and recently it's been 2. So my hope is that it would continue :/
Will TransLink use the double articulated buses like in Mexico City and Bogotá or just the smaller single articulated buses?
West Van/North Shore BRT to Metrotown is not very useful. Even the "rapid" buses crossing the North Shore are not that rapid at all (too many stops compared to a normal bus), and going to Metrotown from the Phibbs side is not that much of a market. Most people going from west of central North Van or West Van will simply get to the Expo line either via Seabus (North Van) or via LGB to Granville or Burrard station (West Van). Only Lynn or Seymour (eastern North Van) would have any natural inclination to go to Metrotown or even Brentwood or BCIT via Phibbs.
The real problem on the North Shore is actually getting to the key transit hubs (Park Royal, Lonsdale Quay, or Phibbs), the slow & inefficient part of the journey. Even living as I do by two major bus routes offering multiple options to reach the Quay or Phibbs, at its very fastest, transit will be twice as slow to reach Metrotown as a car.
Now, if there is a stall or crash on Second Narrows (a frequent problem), no amount of bus frequency or "Express" status will help once all the bridge feeder routes jam up; buses will be there one every city block or two, but moving slower than a walking pace. Planners allowed too many new buildings to encroach on key east-west arterials with no easements, making the adding of bus lanes basically impossible unless you start tearing existing buildings down. Granted, cars would suffer from this too, but it is at that point you'd say "F it" and either get to the Quay & Seabus, or hop on a bike.
The point is, the hodge-podge of "rapid bus" dream is retrained by 1) the fact the bridges on the North Shore are not getting any wider, so capacity for moving anything will remain limited until finally they face the nightmare job of replacing one or both bridges; 2) the devotion of city councils to enact all sort of development plans which actually interfere with key transit arterials like Marine Drive and Lonsdale. They are not opening those arterials, they are still pushing plans which will choke them off even more, transit be damned (along with almost everyone else).
That's why it's BRT. It's fully traffic separated
@@markuslau2321 Except in areas where it can't be, which is a lot of the route.
Extending R2 from north van to Metrotown is a bad idea, too many traffic on this route including lions gate bridge, second worker, Hasting street and not to mention willngdon ave which could make this route extremely unreliable and cause delays. I think the better way is make a new rapid bus to replace 222 and placed bus lane along willingdon ave.
So, what would happen to the R1? Especially service east of Surrey Central? I think extending R1 should be a higher priority especially in both directions to #WhiteRock and #Coquitlam than upgrading the corridors for BRT and only extend to #WhiteRock. Even without the longer travel times between the Tri-Cities and #Surrey due to switch changes, I think better use of resources should go towards extending the R1 in both directions instead of one direction. As some others said, Metrotown-North Shore BRT is rather questionable that extending the R2 would be the more ideal interim solution for a North Shore #SkyTrain. Rather save resources for a future #SkyTrain link with a #RapidBus extension than wasting on fancy BRTs that will soon be upgraded to #SkyTrain.
Sounds wonderful except for the fact that Metrolink is already saying that if they cannot get more funding they will be cutting routes by the end of this year
nothing for south delta? well then i don't care
Bus rapid transit for maple ridge is great not stoked about the more limited service outside of peak periods though compared to other parts of the region
Maple ridge always gets shafted when it comes to resources and scheduling.
I use to think Coquitlam’s transit system was bad because most buses run every 30 minutes hourly on weekends / holidays compared with the other tri city’s Surrey buses typically run every 10-15 minutes
Then I moved to ridge the standard in ridge meadows is way lower my god what is up with the shuttle bus service no buses into the evening weekend or holidays or weekend mornings and if they are running they come every hour we still have some buses that come every two hours
Thought this would at least be fixed by the time the R3 rapid bus came around and it never happened
People need to be able to get to and from the transit exchange to make their trips getting home on transit is just as important as getting to where you are going, if our local service is non operational it is very difficult for us to do that people still work on holidays and weekend buses need to be running no one wants to pay for a taxi every time
Also the new shuttle buses with less seats bad move these vehicles at least in my part of town are usually at capacity and people get passed up we need more seats on these routes not less
My bus is the 746 / 745 specifically I have been giving feed back in this for more than 8 years very little has been done to improve these conditions where does all the money go seriously there are increases in fare and taxes constantly
Also why have we still not gotten a compass card mobile app so we can use I fare card via smart phone long over due every other major city is already doing this we already have the infrastructure in place to do this wasted tax dollars
How is this better than the b-line, rapid bus or a glorified bus? Call it whatever you want. It’s still a bus. Build a skytrain down king george instead.
seabus from Surrey to New West is needed again
from where at what for compared to the Skytrain crossing ?
The Maple Ridge Langley BRT will not be open intil the SLS is open sometime after 2030.
The Surrey BRT can be opened within a year if they just upgrade the present curb lanes on KGB that are being used by the existing R1 RapidBus.
The cost would be $20 to $30 M vs the proposed centre lanes BRT of $300 M. BRT on KGB will not be 40% faster than the present R1 or 394 buses, maybe 10% faster.