I'm from Kansas, and I remember when this accident happened. He was a prominent person, and it was all over the news. I wasn't too interested in aviation at the time, so I didn't think much about *why* it happened. Now, watching this video, I'm absolutely astounded that such an inexperienced pilot would pack his family into a plane he was barely familiar with and try to fly them halfway across the country. What were he and his wife thinking?
This is the precise sequence of events that ended with Bonanza pilots pulling off their own tails. Loss of control in IMC, excessive speed, excessive bank angle, breaking out of the cloud, seeing the ground rushing up and....pulling on the yoke. The results were identical. Robin
"Hey, I got my small single engine aircraft pilot license! Want to go for a ride with me?" Is the average person going to say no? Probably not, and why should they? All they know is that they're being offered a plane ride from a "trained, certified" pilot/family member.
@@CGoody564 I was forced to fly in a small single engine aircraft...once. Haven't done it since. Never will again. So this average person will say no every time.
I knew the pilot on one of these episodes. He got his whole family killed over Bakersfield by flying into IFR conditions without an instrument rating..
Cruise altitude is sometimes viewed as a non critical phase of flight which is a total misconception as real dangers can occur. There is a great peril when you upset the balanced aerodynamic forces that occur at cruise and the lack of density in the air complicated recovery. Most flight training is done in controlled environments at low to medium altitudes and training dictates prompt recovery as a standard. however in situations like this, the centrifugal and other forces of upset plus distractions like reaction of passengers [ wife, children ] can complicate the focus required. Efficiency occurs when an aircraft operates close to its service ceiling but in the region, vigilance is important. Don't kick back in the cockpit at cruise altitude, it may be fatal. Always adequately supervise your aircraft.
I've flown a couple PC-12, a series 9, and a series 10. Both pretty old by today's standards. One thing I hated was that they would kick off the autopilot at the slightest bump of turbulence. They could be frustrating machines to fly at times. I suspect the accident pilot either was too distracted to hear the autopilot disconnect tone, or he was unfamiliar with the sound of the tone and didn't recognize it.
This is exactly what happened in my mind. I think the biggest thing that we can all take away from this as if you're in heavy turbulence or if you're in unusual attitude makes slow gentle corrections.
The older PC-12 Autopilot was useless in any kind of turbulence. I always joked it only wanted to fly VFR leaving the IFR flying up to the real pilot. Never understood why Pilatus didn’t address the problem.
seriously, most of these guys too, you find out they have absolutely ZERO simulator time. As people who love flying, I mean, not this rich guy buy himself anything type, but people who study and can tell you everything about flight put themselves in bad situations, un-survivable situations in simulators THOUSANDS OF TIMES. my mentor was an aerobatics coach for 30 years, after being an air guard reserve men and a commercial pilot. You always pursue what scares you, start everyday with a flame out or an electrical fire in bad icing in IFR. simulate everything you can so that when it comes to it, you can lean on those experiences. simulators are high fidelity for a reason, they work for training certifications for a reason. In this day and age it is almost unthinkable that someone would forego that tool and not build their skills everyday. I fly at least 10 hours a day everyday in "near to life" simulators for training. I post games and mil spec but train in the real stuff. You can literally spend your entire day in a cesna in one of the most expensive and crowded airspaces in the world for about 60.00 dollars one time. To me, flight is a huge responsibility. I wouldn't even trust myself to go up cold, let alone, wantonly skirting my better judgement.
Should have bought an Edge 540 And if you weren't born with the dream to fly / Don't. Everytime some small business owner or doctor gets an airplane to make things easier, it doesn't end well.
That statement is BS. Many crashes happen to doctors or business owners because they use the aircraft as a mode of transportation, not as a toy. Statistics need to be understood to not jump to wrong conclusions. Flying is mainly a necessity like driving a car and has generally little to do with the "dream of flying". The sky is not reserved for wannabe Mavericks or Sullys only.
Aviate (or simply put fly the bloody airplane) Navigate (Am I close to mountains, or other high structures I could potentially collide with) Communicate (Let ATC know you have an issue) This applies whether you are flying a Cessna 125 or a Boeing 777
I don't get it. It's just around average of 60 hours flying to get your PPL and flying solo or with family/friends. He had 750 hours of experience. How much hours would be appropriate? From my understanding, he just didn't had enough experience in IMC and didn't maintain hes flying skills. Probably was overconfident?
because he went to a company like flightsafety and got a checkout which is to the same level that corporate and other professional pilots must accomplish for their insurance companies
It’s not just about transitioning, but in this case his lack of recent aviation experience done him in. And apparently way over his head (and his skills)!
I remember this on the local news. Sadly as one of the wings folded in, it ripped a hole in the side of the fuselage and one of his kids was sucked out of the aircraft.
Non pilot here. What was the best course of action once the plane was so fast and flying straight down? Did the airframe/wings break when he pulled back? Im just guessing but maybe reduce to idle and slowly level? Or was he in an un-winnable situation because of excess speed?
The ink on my PPL is still wet. But my training for a nose down attitude is to power to idle, level the wings, then begin to pull back on the yoke. Pulling all the way back first could put you in a death spiral. Put your phone in a nose down and tilted attitude. Now just pull the nose up inline with the screen. That's not going to be good. Your going to lose lift (stall) and spiral. Now try again, but first flatten the phone, then pull the nose up. You will get even lift on both wings. Also, pulling all the way back at that airspeed (double the maneuvering speed) will cause structural damage. Maneuvering speed is the max airspeed in which flight controls can be fully deflected without risk of damage. Within maneuvering speed, the plane will stall before being damaged. Both of these dangers combined is what the narrator meant by "predictable outcome." (Or whatever the exact term he used.)
He probably was joining the mile high club with the other half on board. Once he realized a/p disengaged he tried to press the AP bottom again, but his fingers missed it and pressed the nearby Test bottom. The rest is history.
i would like to learn something from this, he said the worst thing to do was to pull up. what is the best thing to do then? I'm sure put the engines in idle but what else, landing gear down or what?
It doesn't seem to have been made perfectly clear.. did the wings get overloaded and fail? Maybe that's an odd question idk. There may be be a high tech (or even low tech) way to limit control input at high speed, idk. Seems you'd really only need control limits on the elevator. I can't think of what else could be meant by 'double the aircraft's maneuvering speed at that altitude'. Frankly I didn't know there was such a thing as a maximum maneuvering speed, just too large of elevator inputs at high speeds. Am I missing something?
Ron sadly ended up killing his family because of his lack of knowledge of the aircraft and its systems. Money can buy you awesome things, but just because you can buy them does not mean you are ready to own and fly them. The true story is that he barely passed his checkout in the aircraft. Hence the reason he needed more lessons during the training. He was not ready to fly IFR at those speeds and altitudes afforded to him by the palatus. I mean who performs an Autopilot systems check as your aircraft enters an unusual attitude. The abrupt G load following the pull back on the controls severed the wing tip which then breached the cabin causing one of his children to be sucked out of the aircraft at 11,000 ft. The rest of them died on impact. A creepy note to this story is that the aircraft was previously owned by a law firm. The same firm that Defended Casey Anthony. And after the child killer was acquitted this is the aircraft that was used to take her into hiding.
So a Child Killer get away Airplane ends killing other children too. A shame these events happened in USA. Dam Crooks killing their own kids lately. Arrogant ahoooess
427SuperSnake1 -- You took the very words from my mouth. You are one wise man. That is why you are still alive. I have said and warned about this very same thing for my entire adult life. I am a pretty gutsy guy but I am still alive. More money than knowledge, training, and experience. More money than brains. A perfect recipe for disaster. A leading cause of death and injury. In all of AOPA, FAA, and other entities, their safety seminars never point this out. For example, they constantly harp on stall-spin accidents. I have never have gotten close to such a problem because I know and understand how a stall-spin entry is created. Fifty years seeing them kill themselves and their passengers on expensive Harley motorcycles, in expensive sports cars, aboard expensive sailboats, in expensive aircraft, et al. just because they have more money than brains. I call it the "macho man" syndrome. I could buy more but I am very satisfied with my 1962 Cessna 172C. It does the job for me because I am never in a hurry to get somewhere and I enjoy flying aircraft. I could buy more but I am very satisfied with my 1970 all fiberglass diamant-18 sailplane. It gets me over seven states and back with ease. Early in life, I took this saying to heart. There are old pilots and their are bold pilots but their are no old bold pilots. A lot can be taken from this one saying. No? Here is another one for the books. When two solid objects try to occupy the same space at the same time something bad shall occur. I hope, I helped at least one wannabe affluent person to stay alive and enjoy their wealth. But experience tells me otherwise. Sad but true. I feel for their passengers and their families and their kids the most.
How can those CFI's that sign up these clods that later on kill themselves sleep at night? I bet using opium pills. Sleeping pills. It takes a crook to sign up a crook. I met a "CFI" in New Jersey, USA that had about 6 deaths due his mediocre and selling sign outs crook CFI ways. Never heavily punished for those deaths. Local FAA connections i was told. The guy was a pest and known crook. Never corrected by the FAA, except for a few months of CFI suspended when he dam idiot crashed an easy to fly Piper, when he could only fly his C172 in easy weather. (An Easy weather, easy winds CFI) I stopped saying hi to the ahoolle when found out his ways. I was the only one that stood up to him. The others coward out due "he had connections". Cowards. What can you expect from the USA state that glorifies gansters and Mafiosos stealing from the taxes every day, cowards.
You can always find someone to say go for it, this person should have listened to the one who said DON'T. My first thoughts were a combination of 'Kennedy' and 'get there ittus'. Too much plane, too little time in it, poor conditions for experience/currency, and wanted to GO.
One more irony to the Platus aircraft, only months before it happened over New York a family of four and a family friend were also killed minutes after take off from Teterboro airport flying into rime icing conditions, the aircraft was equipped for it however the right separated from this Pilatus aircraft a splashed across a multi-line highway killing all on board...
Moto Rad recovery from nose down unusual attitude calls for power to idle to reduce speed, leveling the wings to reduce load, then finely pull up to level flight and readding power when attitude and appropriate speed have been recovered
I’m sorry...flying your family long distance at this skill/experience level is just needlessly risky. GA is a hobby...not reliable daily transportation like a car or commercial aviation. To reach that level you need to be a real IFR Pilot who flies routinely in IMC, be impeccable at planning and aircraft maintenance, and ideally own a twin. Even then you’re gonna have to cancel for weather quite a bit. Some of these pilots fly like they own an Embraer Legacy or Falcon.
I agree, depressing, but offer really good training. It's humbling that around half of the accidents covered by this channel could have been avoided by knowing when to call off due to weather and understanding your own skill as a pilot.
its real life not a movie and a lot of pilots out there are going to be more aware of the issues that can arise and what options are most beneficial to them in similar situations, yes in this case the pilots choices led to a tragedy but the study of these event may save someone you know : )
The button you use is called fly the plane , the second you start to depend on automation is the second you just got into very dangerous territory for your life
@@wojciechmuras553 Probably not if your autopilot has issues. Although one hopes that the autolevel function in the Cirrus has nothing to do with the autopilot, for redundancy.
I think successful people get in these situations because it's the same reason they are successful enough to acquire such aircraft. They have a "can do and nothing can stop me attitude" which helped them in business but fails to apply in aircraft. There are some things that truly can't just be tackled head on.
Some individuals have a zoom focus. Until the problem he prioritized was understood by him, the other more important variables escaped him. It's a personality trait many people have, not only successful people.
In these series. One common theme seem to be pilots with more money then experience, getting over their head. The traits emphasized for business success, seem to be the same traits that gets you killed in GA.
The traits emphasized for business success really only work in the business world. The people who succeed most in the business world have realized that those traits don't even work well in business.
@ Ted Exactly. No smart businessman is going to go full speed ahead into something he hasn’t researched or doesn’t have a return. But some people do just that and beat the odds, pat themselves on the back, and think everything in life works that way... until they are dead.
It also seems what makes you a good Dr does not make you a good pilot. Then again it may be as simple as planes are expensive, Dr.s make a lot of money so many Dr.s own planes.
As a retired airline pilot I can tell you many stories of us sitting on the ramp waiting for the weather to improve only to see these doctor types taking off in their bonanzas thinking they are invincible.
When they don’t even know how to talk on the radio it is pretty apparent. Plus no airline pilot I know takes off into a line of thunderstorms IMC without radar when twenty plus jets waiting for the line to pass.
Oh yeah for sure. “Hard work and determination have enabled me to be a successful individual... therefore I will apply that same hard work and determination to overcome the forces of nature!” Doctors, businessmen, professionals, celebrities... there’s a reason why so many of them meet their end in an airplane after bad decision making. And woe to the pimply faced instructor or seasoned pilot who tries to talk some sense into them or get them to wait it out. They have all the gizmos and a high performance airplane and an important meeting or an important date in another time zone that they simply can’t miss.
@@FarmerTed so because they dont talk on the radio, theyre automatically not pilots? Youre using lack of sny evidence to conclude that they must not be pilot.
Grim Shaw, if you don’t know I can’t help you. They are pilots because they are flying, but that doesn’t make them proficient instrument pilots. If you can’t even communicate with tower or departure control effectively and they (the controller) has to repeat basic commands. If they are stupid enough to fly into weather airlines won’t. Yeah they are making poor decisions! I think my 20000 hrs can deduce that. But hey what do I know.
@@adamw.8579 The comparison I was thinking was Chevy S-10 to 18-wheeler. A PC-12 is a very high-performance aircraft, but it's also a cargo plane - as witnessed by the huge door in the back you can load pallets into with a forklift.
As an aviator with 34 plus years and the usual ratings with many different types in my log I can tell you this with some credibility....for those of us that never fly anything other than light singles or twins...transitioning into any different aircraft takes time, patience, and different skills. To make this applicable to the non millionaire owner for instance...going from a certified factory Cessnapipergrumanaireknickeretcetc to a DIFFERENT performance aircraft be it a Wittman Tailwind to a Kit Fox type performer takes preferably a competent check out pilot in the type or something very similar NO MATTER how much experience or time one has. It does not have to be a bird capable of flight levels or 300 knots to bite you. " Aviation in itself is not inherently dangerous but to an even greater degree than the land or the sea, is terribly unforgiving of ANY carelessness, incapacity or neglect" ... not my quote. Doran Jaffas
it had to be spatial disorientation without him even realizing it, but once he could feel the massive g forces starting to build, maybe he put 2 and 2 together...
I don't know enough about the information available to determine the crash but my first impression is that isn't there the possibility that the pilot became incapacitated during the IMC flight and the passengers were unsure of what to do? Would explain the autopilot test button press which may have been a passenger who thought that's what he had pressed earlier to enter autopilot. It would explain why there is no radio contact and also why someone tried to pull up the nose only once the aircraft entered VFR conditions and they could see they were going down? I just fail to see how he would have ignored the bank angle, air speed and altitude indicators.
He was in IMC, was not particularly experienced in IMC, was not necessarily even current in IFR (the video doesn't mention that from what I recall but what they do say would imply that he's not) and seemed to believe he had an instrument problem. It may not be that he didn't notice the bank, but that he didn't believe it, which is pretty typical for pilots inexperienced in IMC.
@@ModernClassic that's a really scary thought... like they could have been at 1g the entire time and with no external references.... but still you have multiple artificial horizons which should be running off of independent sensors i think, and its not like he had 0 IMC experience.
Why do you need experience when it has autopilot? Well here's a good example. Too many of these stories. Like this guy. Only flew with autopilot. th-cam.com/video/F_wWMPUnNWY/w-d-xo.html
I don't think its right to call this a "transitioning to other aircraft" scenario. The fact is that the pilot had not really flown for 5 years, and had lost all the sensible habits that one needs to be safe. Such as: Something unexpected happens (AP disengage in this case) FIRST confirm plane is flying steady and boring, THEN try to fix the anomaly. In IMC and something is happening? LOOK at horizon, Airspeed, Altitude. only once you know you are steady, attend to the other stuff. And keep glancing at the horizon, airspeed and altitude!
@Armando Silvier No, it would not. An aircraft in a bank does NOT cause a hanging string to veer off to the side. Nor does it cause your body's balance sensors to feel that you are canted to one side. That is WHY you need to check your instruments so faithfully.
@@flavor12346 HUnnybun..... "Horizon" refers to the INSTRUMENT ON THE CONTROL PANEL!!! Also called attitude indicator. When in IMC and someone tells you to check your altitude, you DON'T look out the window and estimate how far the ground is. When in IMC and someone tells you to check your horizon, you DON'T look out the window and try to figure which part of the white/black nothing out there is ground and which is sky. YOU LOOK AT THE INSTRUMENTS! I *really* hope you are not actually a pilot. ever.
Not common enough. The rich live in luxury while the rest of us practically live in a third world nation, devoid of healthcare, buried in student loans, and without any hope for retirement. The rich should all buy high performance aircraft and take their families on trips daily. It'll give the rest of us cause for celebration.
But they seldom do. Case in point: The overwhelming majority of automobile drivers think that their skills are "above average" - a statistical impossibility.
So he was pretty much headed straight (very steeply) down when he pulled back on the yolk. Besides just being gentle about the yolk pull, what else should he have done to get out of the situation? ClayZ is not a pilot and he wonders.
Mike Kelley, you're exactly right. BUT think about this: he didn't even need a "Crackerjack Pilot." He just needed an extra set of eyes, and ears, and hands, and mouth for backup. At his level of experience (because of lack of flying and training), he could not have been completely comfortable in performing all duties solo. He needed a safety pilot but had the ill-fated mindset that he didn't need to heed to the advice of the older, wiser pilot. Instead of paying big bucks for a TopGun, if you're instrument rated and at least current, then you or I could have easily and competently fulfilled that task. He knew the basics of the flight management systems. We could keep the aircraft straight and level, monitor ATC, track a course, avoid weather. Piece of cake. But no, he wants to do it all himself. When the problem arose, it took over the entire mission into one killer distraction. He took his eyes off the attitude indicator. He apparently stopped scanning, as must be done. It only takes a few seconds to end up in an unusual attitude. Why? Probably fooling around with all of those million dollar avionics, or trying to read the Pilot Operating Handbook to figure out why the priceless indispensable autopilot shut itself off. If he had been flying like he was taught, with his hand on the yoke, it might have been different. Conclusion: very poor judgment, poor performance, lack of being willing to accept help, very sad indeed.
I have long thought that the same confidence and even arrogance that leads people to do well in professions on the ground can doom them in the air. It's always such a shame when they take their families with them when they crash.
I would look up the ethics on undercutting qualified pilots. It is very frowned upon to offer your piloting services for less than the going rate. Because then all it does is bring wages down for the rest of us. Pay your dues, get qualified, then get paid your worth. Wages are finally going up because of this. Also never, ever, ever take a flying job for free. That is the worst black X you can get on your resume if you have hopes of becoming a professional pilot.
From the ntsb accident report: During the right descending turn, while about 15,511 feet and 338 knots (about 175 knots above maximum operating maneuvering speed), the pilot likely applied either abrupt or full aft elevator control input, resulting in overstress fracture of both wings in a positive direction. The separated section of right wing impacted and breached the fuselage, causing one passenger to be ejected from the airplane. Following the in-flight break-up, the airplane descended uncontrolled into an open field.
Stephen Black of course. Every pilot knows this. But when you’re in the cockpit, in imc, and suddenly see yourself banked 100 degrees over diving towards the ground, your immediate reaction may not be to do the logical thing. Be careful, don’t fall into the trap of thinking that you’re immune to making the same bad decisions as other pilots.. cheers
So in this accident, what happened when he pulled back on the yoke? I wish you would explain more why his actions caused the plane to crash and what to do to avoid this from happening. Was he upside down when he pulled back?
+US MC at minute 2:53 the narrator states that the airplane's airspeed was about double the maneuvering speed of the aircraft. If an airplane is above its maneuvering speed, any abrupt changes in flight controls will cause structural damage to the airframe. In this case, the pilot should have decreased engine power to idle, and slowly pulled up from the nosedive, to make sure he doesn't put excess load on the airframe.
Yes, and even in cases where the airplane has survived the pull-out from the dive structurally, the pilot's structure may not do so well as the G-force exerted can result in a loss of consciousness. Sometimes that may only last for seconds, but there may not be any seconds to spare in that circumstance. This is more typical in smaller but heavily-built aircraft like aerobatic or fighter types, the latter providing pressurized support to the pilot under this stress to avoid blood pooling in the extremities away from the brain. I seem to recall a case from many years ago of a high-performance, low-wing single being pulled out of a dive producing an estimated 7+ G's, the pilot went out cold, but was somehow still flying when he regained consciousness and he managed to land safely. The airplane, however, had a considerably increased dihedral and many of its wing rivets were popped--probably written off.
Just to supplement your answer, even experienced aerobatic pilots have been known to put themselves to sleep by pulling a little two hard. (Some manoeuvres are known as "sleepers" because of that.) I know of at least two probable cases. Even so, if you snap the wings off, as this case appears to have done, you might as well be asleep at impact. (No sense in dying scared.)
Mohammed Altuwairgi I believe that rolling wings level then pulling out gently would be the best course of action. Pulling back on a banked aircraft just increases the G forces without changing the decent. Agreed about putting the throttle to idle though.
I got a student pilot that complaints about how slow and uncool learning to fly in the C172. He brags about how much money he makes and how important time is to him. He is buying the PC12 with a business partner and plans to use it for business travel. I dropped him at lesson 2. Professionals that treat aviation merely as a mean to an end often end up badly. Their egos will be their undoing.
I was discussing buying a plane when I was a student. Budget had ne looking at things like 172s and Cherokees. I mentioned a Mooney might be possible to an instructor. He advised against it to start, referring it and other higher performance planes as doctor killers. People with more money than experience can get in over their heads easily.
The airlines went through a phase of automation accidents when the planes started following lines on a screen programmed through flight computers. Something unexpected would happen, and the pilot would start pawing at the autopilot or typing into the FMC, leaving the airplane to continue on it's merry way into some serious Chuck Yeager attitudes than an MD-80 has no right to be in. They called these pilots "children of the magenta line" and reorganized their training to stop it. Broadly speaking, they were very successful. Pilots of respectable airlines are now trained to respond to automation anomalies by turning the automation off and flying the airplane, THEN troubleshooting the issue only once everything is under control and stable. If that means hand flying it all the way to the numbers like a DC-3 while the PNF holds the suicidal trim wheel in a death grip, you do that. Anything but being a front-seat passenger.
JFK made a very similar error in judgement, stepping up from mostly 172 time to a Piper Saratoga and turning down help from another pilot who offered to fly with him.
Question for anyone out there. I've never flown an airplane in my life and have no intentions of ever doing it, but these videos are endlessly interesting to me so I watch a ton. Any questions from me, a guy who knows nothing: Does anyone know why this plane crashed. Why would he disable autopilot or was it disabled some other way? How could the bank angle get so steep without the pilot noticing? Seems obvious to someone like me but I've never flown an airplane before nor do I intend to. What purpose, if any, would it serve to test the autopilot before attempting to recover from the steep angle? Lastly, would this steep decent have been recoverable had he not applied the full aft elevator input? Could he have saved the flight had he eased into it or was it already too late? Thanks again.
Here are likely answers: 1) pilot prolly turned off autopilot because his inner ear and other senses were screaming at him that he was straight and level… the general term is ‘vestibular illusion’, and is deadly deadly deadly in imc when pilots doubt their instruments. 2) if you can’t see the horizon or another fixed reference point, it is nearly impossible to know your orientation in space; human inner ear not evolved for 3 dimensions. 3) to recover from the dive, he should have a) reduced power b) leveled wings c) graaadddduuuualllllyyy pulled back on yoke
These non aviation industry private types, owning highly technical aircraft, are probably 'high achievers' and don't take kindly to being 'told what to do'.
I'm not a pilot, I just think it's an interesting topic and want to learn. But theres one thing I can't understand. In these videos, every guy that gets in over his head stepping up to a more powerful aircraft ALWAYS has like 11 children with him when it crashes....
Given the 'rusty instrument rated pilot' failed to notice his turn and altitude indicator and the extreme bank and loss of altitude, basic instrument flying was not performed. The first problem was not getting currency instrument training. The pilot would also have been smarter to fly in good weather for at least 100 hours (possibly no real destination, just practice) to get cockpit management down pat before trying to use the aircraft on an actually flight that may have included IMC..
That this pilot refused to take an experienced pilot for at least 20 or more hours demonstrates the problem of the "V-tailed Doctor Killer", the Bonanza. For a period of time, the Bonanza was the plane of choice of busy, successful people who could afford the best airplane. These people were used to being in charge and not taking "no" for an answer. So they would take their new Bonanza into conditions that even a more experienced pilot would shy away from. I saw this at my home airport when a doctor with his family flew into a small, unlit airport airport at night and crashed, killing them all. Of course, it had nothing to do with the pilots being doctor or that the aircraft was a Bonanza. They were just rich and arrogant people thinking they could do anything better than other people. We still have a similar problem but they are no long usually doctors and there are many more advanced aircraft to choose from. There are thousands of business owners and IT professionals making tons of money and buying the fastest, hottest airplanes available. The pilot in this video chose the Pilatus, a very fine airplane but it was above his ability. Simulator training is good but for an inexperienced pilot, it isn't enough. If you can't afford proper training and a second pilot if it is a night or weather trip for 20-100 hours or so when stepping up in aircraft, or when your proficiency is waning, you can't afford the aircraft.
As so many have said fly the aircrat. Any time the AP starts banking you in trouble. The AP has disconnect or the in put data is wrong like switching from GPS or VOR or Heading bug First step disconnect the A P and then hand fly the aircraft At times it's hard to give at vice but for new pilots never rush take your time and wlatch some of those aircraft aftermath reports It may just save your life and if you new and can afford it for the first year of flying try to do one night of touch & go's per week It will help
Every other case study involves the death of an entire family-father, mother, children. Sometimes even the family dog. God, this is depressing. What would it be like, watching the terrain fill the windshield, to know you are taking your family with you? That horrific realization, at least, wouldn’t last very long.
It is all too common for pilots of the new fangled "automated wonders" to try to get the Computer to again fly the aircraft rather then hand flying it through what ever rough spot you've put yourself in! I can hear my old Instructor now; "FLY THE DAMN PLANE"!!!!!
So he pulled up when the plane was to fast and that caused the elevator to break or something? What would the correct course of action be if someone knows
Disclaimer: I’m not a pilot, but have binge-watched these accident case studies. :0. I think he should have pulled the throttles all the way back to slow the plane, leveled the wings, and then as gradually as possible, pulled back the yoke.
@@randomschmo5778 depends on the airspeed ,bank angle and abruptness at the point where he started to recover with the controls . He may have passed the ‘ point of no return ‘ already---no-one can say . As you can see the wings were still with the wreckage albeit damaged a bit , but the empennage [ tail plane ] was gone . This is why the NTSB knew it was pulled off when too much back yoke was applied by the pilot . Once the tail was gone the aircraft would tumble head over heels but the really heavy forces on the wings would be reduced somewhat , not enough to damage both though . Apart from that ,though ,your sequence of actions would be what was necessary to recover . Too many pilots pull back before leveling the wings and it’s this that finishes them with the tail gone .
Oh, i feel Like this has less to do with transitioning but more with the pilot being mentally lost in the Situation, seriously, testing the Autopilot before bringing the plane back to level flight??
Aviate, Navigate, Communicate, in that order. Along with taking advice from more experienced pilots and being current, proficient and confident in the aircraft type.
OMG. This happened to me, almost with fatal consequences. I reached my first solo flight training on one Cessna 172. That plane had detents for each flap setting. The first click down was 10 degrees. The switch stayed in that detent until you wanted more flaps at which point you went to the next detent. My second solo they gave me a different Cessna 172. Unbeknownst to me, that 172 had a flap switch like the one that was responsible for this accident. Once you put it in the down position the flaps ran out to 40 degrees unless you returned the switch to its original position. I'm getting ready to turn base. This is my second solo flight. As trained I push the flaps button down one setting. I'm now turning base and the plane violently pitches into a nose up attitude and my speed dropped precipitously. As I was in the circuit turning base I was "low and slow". Thankfully the first 20 hours of training was so effective that I reflexively pushed the nose down and added a ton of power trying to figure out what was going on. The plane stabilized and I landed still not knowing I was at flaps 40. This really scared me. If I had done what it looks like a number of other pilots have done in that situation, pulled the nose up further to stop losing precious altitude, I have no doubt I would have gone down in a stall spin crash just outside the airport. It really scared me. I flew a couple more times, but decided being a pilot was not for me.
Such a sad story, but necessary one to be told. If I've learned anything from these air disaster vids it would be to never rely too heavily on avionics.
This happened to a friend of mine.....transitioned from a single eng 210 to twin eng Aerostar....killed himself and two others.....he owned the a/c a week.....and had just received his multi certification.....
I'm from Kansas, and I remember when this accident happened. He was a prominent person, and it was all over the news. I wasn't too interested in aviation at the time, so I didn't think much about *why* it happened. Now, watching this video, I'm absolutely astounded that such an inexperienced pilot would pack his family into a plane he was barely familiar with and try to fly them halfway across the country. What were he and his wife thinking?
They think they must be very smart to make all that money, consequences are only for the financially irresponsible.
they were thinking that they are special people and not subject to the constraints of regular people
I’m from Kansas, I never heard of him. But I was pretty young.
This is the precise sequence of events that ended with Bonanza pilots pulling off their own tails. Loss of control in IMC, excessive speed, excessive bank angle, breaking out of the cloud, seeing the ground rushing up and....pulling on the yoke.
The results were identical.
Robin
Bonanza- doctor/lawyer killer.
There were structural issues with the v tail as well. Beech modified it, offered a substitute (the Debonair) and eventually got rid of it entirely.
My father always referred to it as the Fork Tailed Doctor Killer
Well, if it also kills lawyers, then i will sell them to those only.
@Galileo7of9 Maybe or maybe not. Anyways, "doctor killer" is widely used name for Bonanza among aviation people, like it or not :)
I just can't get over the fact there are so many stories of pilots getting their families killed.
"Hey, I got my small single engine aircraft pilot license! Want to go for a ride with me?"
Is the average person going to say no? Probably not, and why should they? All they know is that they're being offered a plane ride from a "trained, certified" pilot/family member.
They seem to be using it as the family SUV.
Wouldn't you that, if you could get to the Bahamas every other weekend in a few hours?
@@rogerwilco2 I mean, they get the license for a reason, ya know?
@@CGoody564 I was forced to fly in a small single engine aircraft...once. Haven't done it since. Never will again. So this average person will say no every time.
I knew the pilot on one of these episodes. He got his whole family killed over Bakersfield by flying into IFR conditions without an instrument rating..
Cruise altitude is sometimes viewed as a non critical phase of flight which is a total misconception as real dangers can occur. There is a great peril when you upset the balanced aerodynamic forces that occur at cruise and the lack of density in the air complicated recovery. Most flight training is done in controlled environments at low to medium altitudes and training dictates prompt recovery as a standard. however in situations like this, the centrifugal and other forces of upset plus distractions like reaction of passengers [ wife, children ] can complicate the focus required. Efficiency occurs when an aircraft operates close to its service ceiling but in the region, vigilance is important. Don't kick back in the cockpit at cruise altitude, it may be fatal. Always adequately supervise your aircraft.
I've flown a couple PC-12, a series 9, and a series 10. Both pretty old by today's standards. One thing I hated was that they would kick off the autopilot at the slightest bump of turbulence. They could be frustrating machines to fly at times. I suspect the accident pilot either was too distracted to hear the autopilot disconnect tone, or he was unfamiliar with the sound of the tone and didn't recognize it.
Jason Hackney Exactly
This is exactly what happened in my mind. I think the biggest thing that we can all take away from this as if you're in heavy turbulence or if you're in unusual attitude makes slow gentle corrections.
The older PC-12 Autopilot was useless in any kind of turbulence. I always joked it only wanted to fly VFR leaving the IFR flying up to the real pilot.
Never understood why Pilatus didn’t address the problem.
Absolutely
He dd hear the AP disengage, he just spent too long trying to figure out why and reset it instead of flying the plane.
To much airplane for the pilot. Unfortunate and common scenario, for those who can afford to buy a plane, to fast for them to handle.
seriously, most of these guys too, you find out they have absolutely ZERO simulator time. As people who love flying, I mean, not this rich guy buy himself anything type, but people who study and can tell you everything about flight put themselves in bad situations, un-survivable situations in simulators THOUSANDS OF TIMES.
my mentor was an aerobatics coach for 30 years, after being an air guard reserve men and a commercial pilot. You always pursue what scares you, start everyday with a flame out or an electrical fire in bad icing in IFR. simulate everything you can so that when it comes to it, you can lean on those experiences.
simulators are high fidelity for a reason, they work for training certifications for a reason. In this day and age it is almost unthinkable that someone would forego that tool and not build their skills everyday. I fly at least 10 hours a day everyday in "near to life" simulators for training. I post games and mil spec but train in the real stuff.
You can literally spend your entire day in a cesna in one of the most expensive and crowded airspaces in the world for about 60.00 dollars one time. To me, flight is a huge responsibility. I wouldn't even trust myself to go up cold, let alone, wantonly skirting my better judgement.
Should have bought an Edge 540
And if you weren't born with the dream to fly / Don't.
Everytime some small business owner or doctor gets an airplane to make things easier, it doesn't end well.
That statement is BS.
Many crashes happen to doctors or business owners because they use the aircraft as a mode of transportation, not as a toy. Statistics need to be understood to not jump to wrong conclusions.
Flying is mainly a necessity like driving a car and has generally little to do with the "dream of flying". The sky is not reserved for wannabe Mavericks or Sullys only.
Aviate (or simply put fly the bloody airplane) Navigate (Am I close to mountains, or other high structures I could potentially collide with) Communicate (Let ATC know you have an issue) This applies whether you are flying a Cessna 125 or a Boeing 777
How the hell did he get insurance on a PC12 with 750TT?
Lots of money.
I don't get it. It's just around average of 60 hours flying to get your PPL and flying solo or with family/friends. He had 750 hours of experience. How much hours would be appropriate? From my understanding, he just didn't had enough experience in IMC and didn't maintain hes flying skills. Probably was overconfident?
Extremely good question. Puzzles me too.
because he went to a company like flightsafety and got a checkout which is to the same level that corporate and other professional pilots must accomplish for their insurance companies
@@IliasJoels Over confident, over banked and pulled at the yoke like a student pilot when things went wrong.
It’s not just about transitioning, but in this case his lack of recent aviation experience done him in. And apparently way over his head (and his skills)!
I guess landing ASAP due to bad weather ahead was out of the question. After all, he DID have his family onboard.
Another pilot confident beyond his abiities.
Im a PVT/INSTRMT pilot and I RESPECT bad weather, I don't even fly in it because I have a choice.
I remember this on the local news. Sadly as one of the wings folded in, it ripped a hole in the side of the fuselage and one of his kids was sucked out of the aircraft.
I am astonished that the PC12 has such a large max airspeed margin
The Frank story is great! Smart guy.
I am not a pilot and even I know “Aviate, Navigate, Communicate” which is very similar to what you do while driving a car
“Beech Bonanza”
That, of all things, should ring alarm bells
Non pilot here. What was the best course of action once the plane was so fast and flying straight down? Did the airframe/wings break when he pulled back? Im just guessing but maybe reduce to idle and slowly level? Or was he in an un-winnable situation because of excess speed?
The ink on my PPL is still wet.
But my training for a nose down attitude is to power to idle, level the wings, then begin to pull back on the yoke.
Pulling all the way back first could put you in a death spiral.
Put your phone in a nose down and tilted attitude. Now just pull the nose up inline with the screen. That's not going to be good. Your going to lose lift (stall) and spiral.
Now try again, but first flatten the phone, then pull the nose up. You will get even lift on both wings.
Also, pulling all the way back at that airspeed (double the maneuvering speed) will cause structural damage. Maneuvering speed is the max airspeed in which flight controls can be fully deflected without risk of damage. Within maneuvering speed, the plane will stall before being damaged.
Both of these dangers combined is what the narrator meant by "predictable outcome." (Or whatever the exact term he used.)
Your course of action is spot on this situation is rcoverable but must be done right
Lawyers and accountants are ruling the world (Procol Harum), but maybe they are good pilot material.
He probably was joining the mile high club with the other half on board. Once he realized a/p disengaged he tried to press the AP bottom again, but his fingers missed it and pressed the nearby Test bottom. The rest is history.
Would the AP been able to recover the flight going 340 knots in step angle?
His kids were on board...
Dr or Lawyer ?
i would like to learn something from this, he said the worst thing to do was to pull up. what is the best thing to do then? I'm sure put the engines in idle but what else, landing gear down or what?
It doesn't seem to have been made perfectly clear.. did the wings get overloaded and fail? Maybe that's an odd question idk. There may be be a high tech (or even low tech) way to limit control input at high speed, idk. Seems you'd really only need control limits on the elevator. I can't think of what else could be meant by 'double the aircraft's maneuvering speed at that altitude'. Frankly I didn't know there was such a thing as a maximum maneuvering speed, just too large of elevator inputs at high speeds. Am I missing something?
Ron sadly ended up killing his family because of his lack of knowledge of the aircraft and its systems. Money can buy you awesome things, but just because you can buy them does not mean you are ready to own and fly them. The true story is that he barely passed his checkout in the aircraft. Hence the reason he needed more lessons during the training. He was not ready to fly IFR at those speeds and altitudes afforded to him by the palatus. I mean who performs an Autopilot systems check as your aircraft enters an unusual attitude. The abrupt G load following the pull back on the controls severed the wing tip which then breached the cabin causing one of his children to be sucked out of the aircraft at 11,000 ft. The rest of them died on impact. A creepy note to this story is that the aircraft was previously owned by a law firm. The same firm that Defended Casey Anthony. And after the child killer was acquitted this is the aircraft that was used to take her into hiding.
So a Child Killer get away Airplane ends killing other children too. A shame these events happened in USA. Dam Crooks killing their own kids lately. Arrogant ahoooess
Snake - very good info. Very interesting indeed but horrific. Also makes me wonder why the lawyers got rid of 950KA and what they replaced it with.
427SuperSnake1 -- You took the very words from my mouth. You are one wise man. That is why you are still alive.
I have said and warned about this very same thing for my entire adult life. I am a pretty gutsy guy but I am still alive.
More money than knowledge, training, and experience. More money than brains. A perfect recipe for disaster. A leading cause of death and injury.
In all of AOPA, FAA, and other entities, their safety seminars never point this out. For example, they constantly harp on stall-spin accidents. I have never have gotten close to such a problem because I know and understand how a stall-spin entry is created.
Fifty years seeing them kill themselves and their passengers on expensive Harley motorcycles, in expensive sports cars, aboard expensive sailboats, in expensive aircraft, et al. just because they have more money than brains. I call it the "macho man" syndrome.
I could buy more but I am very satisfied with my 1962 Cessna 172C. It does the job for me because I am never in a hurry to get somewhere and I enjoy flying aircraft. I could buy more but I am very satisfied with my 1970 all fiberglass diamant-18 sailplane. It gets me over seven states and back with ease.
Early in life, I took this saying to heart. There are old pilots and their are bold pilots but their are no old bold pilots. A lot can be taken from this one saying. No?
Here is another one for the books. When two solid objects try to occupy the same space at the same time something bad shall occur.
I hope, I helped at least one wannabe affluent person to stay alive and enjoy their wealth. But experience tells me otherwise. Sad but true. I feel for their passengers and their families and their kids the most.
How can those CFI's that sign up these clods that later on kill themselves sleep at night? I bet using opium pills. Sleeping pills. It takes a crook to sign up a crook. I met a "CFI" in New Jersey, USA that had about 6 deaths due his mediocre and selling sign outs crook CFI ways. Never heavily punished for those deaths. Local FAA connections i was told. The guy was a pest and known crook. Never corrected by the FAA, except for a few months of CFI suspended when he dam idiot crashed an easy to fly Piper, when he could only fly his C172 in easy weather. (An Easy weather, easy winds CFI)
I stopped saying hi to the ahoolle when found out his ways. I was the only one that stood up to him. The others coward out due "he had connections". Cowards. What can you expect from the USA state that glorifies gansters and Mafiosos stealing from the taxes every day, cowards.
You can always find someone to say go for it, this person should have listened to the one who said DON'T.
My first thoughts were a combination of 'Kennedy' and 'get there ittus'. Too much plane, too little time in it, poor conditions for experience/currency, and wanted to GO.
So, why couldn't he pull the yoke? I'm asking cause I'm trying to learn as much as I can. Those videos are really interesting!
M S ohhh interesting! Thanks 🙏
PC 12 from a Bonanza. Big change...
One more irony to the Platus aircraft, only months before it happened over New York a family of four and a family friend were also killed minutes after take off from Teterboro airport flying into rime icing conditions, the aircraft was equipped for it however the right separated from this Pilatus aircraft a splashed across a multi-line highway killing all on board...
Wing
That was a TBM
Thanks.
He he know how to make 10 Deg course correction with autopilot? Seems like maybe not.
So, more dollars than sense?
What is the proper action if pulling up is wrong?
Moto Rad recovery from nose down unusual attitude calls for power to idle to reduce speed, leveling the wings to reduce load, then finely pull up to level flight and readding power when attitude and appropriate speed have been recovered
Check the US MC thread above. They got into the nitty gritty details.
Saying: “Oh F*ck”.
At that speed the aircraft would probably pull itself up, leveling the wings, gently, was the vital action.
1. Level wings,
2. reduce power
3. SLOWLY pull-up
1. Operate
2. Navigate
3. Communicate
This is exactly what happened to Adam Air 574
I’m sorry...flying your family long distance at this skill/experience level is just needlessly risky. GA is a hobby...not reliable daily transportation like a car or commercial aviation. To reach that level you need to be a real IFR Pilot who flies routinely in IMC, be impeccable at planning and aircraft maintenance, and ideally own a twin. Even then you’re gonna have to cancel for weather quite a bit. Some of these pilots fly like they own an Embraer Legacy or Falcon.
Another case of more dollars than sense
If you're going to commit suicide, don't take your family with you.....................
How tragic
You have to try REAL hard to crash one of these.
Maybe that's what the pilot thought. Before he crashed.
Is this one of those flight recorder caught a female voice asking - "whats this button do?"
K airplane accidents
Airplane
Crashes
these videos are super depressing.
Learning from others mistakes is depressing for you? Oh poor girl. You are weak. Real men look at reality in the eye. Due is, Reality.
I agree, depressing, but offer really good training. It's humbling that around half of the accidents covered by this channel could have been avoided by knowing when to call off due to weather and understanding your own skill as a pilot.
its real life not a movie and a lot of pilots out there are going to be more aware of the issues that can arise and what options are most beneficial to them in similar situations, yes in this case the pilots choices led to a tragedy but the study of these event may save someone you know : )
"Hmm.. bank angle increasing. Isn't there a button I can push to fix that? "
Yes he tried the "TEST" button ..........................wtf?
I believe there's an idiot button for that.
The button you use is called fly the plane , the second you start to depend on automation is the second you just got into very dangerous territory for your life
In Cirrus aircraft, there is. Panic "LVL" button automatically returns an SR22 to level flight.
@@wojciechmuras553 Probably not if your autopilot has issues. Although one hopes that the autolevel function in the Cirrus has nothing to do with the autopilot, for redundancy.
I think successful people get in these situations because it's the same reason they are successful enough to acquire such aircraft. They have a "can do and nothing can stop me attitude" which helped them in business but fails to apply in aircraft. There are some things that truly can't just be tackled head on.
Why doctors seem to get into so many crashes
The ground.
i like your perspective
Some individuals have a zoom focus. Until the problem he prioritized was understood by him, the other more important variables escaped him. It's a personality trait many people have, not only successful people.
Yup "Refusing to take NO for an answer & making your own rules" may work in business .
Not so much in the pilot's seat.
In these series. One common theme seem to be pilots with more money then experience, getting over their head. The traits emphasized for business success, seem to be the same traits that gets you killed in GA.
The traits emphasized for business success really only work in the business world. The people who succeed most in the business world have realized that those traits don't even work well in business.
@ Ted Exactly.
No smart businessman is going to go full speed ahead into something he hasn’t researched or doesn’t have a return. But some people do just that and beat the odds, pat themselves on the back, and think everything in life works that way... until they are dead.
It also seems what makes you a good Dr does not make you a good pilot.
Then again it may be as simple as planes are expensive, Dr.s make a lot of money so many Dr.s own planes.
Well said
Very interesting observation, and probably correct. Ambition, boldness, self confidence - they can help or hurt you depending on the circumstances.
As a retired airline pilot I can tell you many stories of us sitting on the ramp waiting for the weather to improve only to see these doctor types taking off in their bonanzas thinking they are invincible.
How do you know they are doctor "types" and not your felloq commercial pilots?
When they don’t even know how to talk on the radio it is pretty apparent. Plus no airline pilot I know takes off into a line of thunderstorms IMC without radar when twenty plus jets waiting for the line to pass.
Oh yeah for sure.
“Hard work and determination have enabled me to be a successful individual... therefore I will apply that same hard work and determination to overcome the forces of nature!”
Doctors, businessmen, professionals, celebrities... there’s a reason why so many of them meet their end in an airplane after bad decision making.
And woe to the pimply faced instructor or seasoned pilot who tries to talk some sense into them or get them to wait it out. They have all the gizmos and a high performance airplane and an important meeting or an important date in another time zone that they simply can’t miss.
@@FarmerTed so because they dont talk on the radio, theyre automatically not pilots?
Youre using lack of sny evidence to conclude that they must not be pilot.
Grim Shaw, if you don’t know I can’t help you. They are pilots because they are flying, but that doesn’t make them proficient instrument pilots. If you can’t even communicate with tower or departure control effectively and they (the controller) has to repeat basic commands. If they are stupid enough to fly into weather airlines won’t. Yeah they are making poor decisions! I think my 20000 hrs can deduce that. But hey what do I know.
1. Fly the aircraft. 2. Fly the aircraft. 3. Fly the aircraft.
4. Fly the aircraft.
That's right.Rule of thumb for pilots
1.Aviate
2.Navigate
3.Communicate
Thats what I was asking at 50°bank angle," what is the yoke missing?"
@smakfu i learned number 1 flight rule is safety.
@@hadleymanmusic You can't do much of anything, let alone safely, if the aircraft is in charge.
Legacy Pilatus aircraft autopilots had a funny habit of giving up in the weather. A helpful tip is to guard the yoke and be ready to fly.
Rule #1: It only breaks when you need it....
Also to monitor the instruments when flying, you know, in instrument conditions.
Who taught you what you know about the PC-12 that's total garbage.
Same with the Q400, just as the weather is getting really shit the airplane is like “fuck this! Your airplane” 😂
I am wondering if the deicing boots were turned on.
Too often the side-effect of extreme wealth is extreme arrogance......
Eat the rich!!
Kennedy spinning into Long Island Sound leaps to mind.
I was thinking the same thing. A bonanza to a pc-12 is QUITE a transition!
Especially when you haven't flown the Bonanza in several years, Sinister Minister.
@@jmowreader9555 It's like changing bicycle to F1 race car. This Pilatus is more like fighter jet than GA popular aircraft (piston engine).
@@adamw.8579 The comparison I was thinking was Chevy S-10 to 18-wheeler. A PC-12 is a very high-performance aircraft, but it's also a cargo plane - as witnessed by the huge door in the back you can load pallets into with a forklift.
That is a Big jump to a PC-12
I want to transition from a C-152 six-pack to a PC-12
As an aviator with 34 plus years and the usual ratings with many different types in my log I can tell you this with some credibility....for those of us that never fly anything other than light singles or twins...transitioning into any different aircraft takes time, patience, and different skills. To make this applicable to the non millionaire owner for instance...going from a certified factory Cessnapipergrumanaireknickeretcetc to a DIFFERENT performance aircraft be it a Wittman Tailwind to a Kit Fox type performer takes preferably a competent check out pilot in the type or something very similar NO MATTER how much experience or time one has.
It does not have to be a bird capable of flight levels or 300 knots to bite you.
" Aviation in itself is not inherently dangerous but to an even greater degree than the land or the sea, is terribly unforgiving of ANY carelessness, incapacity or neglect" ... not my quote.
Doran Jaffas
it had to be spatial disorientation without him even realizing it, but once he could feel the massive g forces starting to build, maybe he put 2 and 2 together...
I don't know enough about the information available to determine the crash but my first impression is that isn't there the possibility that the pilot became incapacitated during the IMC flight and the passengers were unsure of what to do? Would explain the autopilot test button press which may have been a passenger who thought that's what he had pressed earlier to enter autopilot. It would explain why there is no radio contact and also why someone tried to pull up the nose only once the aircraft entered VFR conditions and they could see they were going down? I just fail to see how he would have ignored the bank angle, air speed and altitude indicators.
He was in IMC, was not particularly experienced in IMC, was not necessarily even current in IFR (the video doesn't mention that from what I recall but what they do say would imply that he's not) and seemed to believe he had an instrument problem. It may not be that he didn't notice the bank, but that he didn't believe it, which is pretty typical for pilots inexperienced in IMC.
I have seen that happen in crashes where a pilot just watches and waits or takes the wrong action.
@@ModernClassic that's a really scary thought... like they could have been at 1g the entire time and with no external references.... but still you have multiple artificial horizons which should be running off of independent sensors i think, and its not like he had 0 IMC experience.
Good point, such a sad story.
Why do you need experience when it has autopilot? Well here's a good example. Too many of these stories. Like this guy. Only flew with autopilot. th-cam.com/video/F_wWMPUnNWY/w-d-xo.html
I don't think its right to call this a "transitioning to other aircraft" scenario.
The fact is that the pilot had not really flown for 5 years, and had lost all the sensible habits that one needs to be safe.
Such as: Something unexpected happens (AP disengage in this case)
FIRST confirm plane is flying steady and boring, THEN try to fix the anomaly.
In IMC and something is happening? LOOK at horizon, Airspeed, Altitude. only once you know you are steady, attend to the other stuff. And keep glancing at the horizon, airspeed and altitude!
@Armando Silvier No, it would not.
An aircraft in a bank does NOT cause a hanging string to veer off to the side. Nor does it cause your body's balance sensors to feel that you are canted to one side. That is WHY you need to check your instruments so faithfully.
unless you can't see the horizon....
@@flavor12346 HUnnybun..... "Horizon" refers to the INSTRUMENT ON THE CONTROL PANEL!!! Also called attitude indicator.
When in IMC and someone tells you to check your altitude, you DON'T look out the window and estimate how far the ground is.
When in IMC and someone tells you to check your horizon, you DON'T look out the window and try to figure which part of the white/black nothing out there is ground and which is sky. YOU LOOK AT THE INSTRUMENTS!
I *really* hope you are not actually a pilot. ever.
The too common Rich Owner/Poor PIlot fatal mix.
Not common enough. The rich live in luxury while the rest of us practically live in a third world nation, devoid of healthcare, buried in student loans, and without any hope for retirement. The rich should all buy high performance aircraft and take their families on trips daily. It'll give the rest of us cause for celebration.
@@gloomyblackfur399 and where exactly do you work? Do you really think that the rich are the cause of your problems?
$4M aircraft. $.05 worth of humility...
The narrator has a really nice voice.
People need to know their limitations and respect their lack of experience.
Ah, but you don't get rich enough to buy a private plane by doing that.
But they seldom do. Case in point: The overwhelming majority of automobile drivers think that their skills are "above average" - a statistical impossibility.
So he was pretty much headed straight (very steeply) down when he pulled back on the yolk. Besides just being gentle about the yolk pull, what else should he have done to get out of the situation? ClayZ is not a pilot and he wonders.
Level the wings, reduce power, reduce the rate of decent I suppose . . . .
Reduce power, level wings, then pull back gradually.
I've often wondered why these people are wealthy enough to buy high-dollar planes but too stupid to hire competent pilots to fly them.
Mike Kelley, you're exactly right. BUT think about this: he didn't even need a "Crackerjack Pilot." He just needed an extra set of eyes, and ears, and hands, and mouth for backup. At his level of experience (because of lack of flying and training), he could not have been completely comfortable in performing all duties solo. He needed a safety pilot but had the ill-fated mindset that he didn't need to heed to the advice of the older, wiser pilot. Instead of paying big bucks for a TopGun, if you're instrument rated and at least current, then you or I could have easily and competently fulfilled that task. He knew the basics of the flight management systems. We could keep the aircraft straight and level, monitor ATC, track a course, avoid weather. Piece of cake. But no, he wants to do it all himself. When the problem arose, it took over the entire mission into one killer distraction. He took his eyes off the attitude indicator. He apparently stopped scanning, as must be done. It only takes a few seconds to end up in an unusual attitude. Why? Probably fooling around with all of those million dollar avionics, or trying to read the Pilot Operating Handbook to figure out why the priceless indispensable autopilot shut itself off. If he had been flying like he was taught, with his hand on the yoke, it might have been different. Conclusion: very poor judgment, poor performance, lack of being willing to accept help, very sad indeed.
I have long thought that the same confidence and even arrogance that leads people to do well in professions on the ground can doom them in the air. It's always such a shame when they take their families with them when they crash.
I will fly it for 200 dollars per day. But im not qualified yet...
I would look up the ethics on undercutting qualified pilots. It is very frowned upon to offer your piloting services for less than the going rate. Because then all it does is bring wages down for the rest of us. Pay your dues, get qualified, then get paid your worth. Wages are finally going up because of this. Also never, ever, ever take a flying job for free. That is the worst black X you can get on your resume if you have hopes of becoming a professional pilot.
They think they can buy skill.
money can't give you skill , just training and talent , none of them can be bought …...fortunatly aviation have no room for bad ones !!!!!!!!!
Wow, very sad. This guy had a butt load of money to afford that toy. Shame for his children who deserved better
The 11 year old kid that was sucked out of the airplane at 10,000 feet agl, probably was screaming down, why dad, why?
what are you talking about ?
From the ntsb accident report: During the right descending turn, while about 15,511 feet and 338 knots (about 175 knots above maximum operating maneuvering speed), the pilot likely applied either abrupt or full aft elevator control input, resulting in overstress fracture of both wings in a positive direction. The separated section of right wing impacted and breached the fuselage, causing one passenger to
be ejected from the airplane. Following the in-flight break-up, the airplane descended uncontrolled into an open field.
thank you for clarifying. I did not read the report obviously
No biggie, it happens.
I am a new pilot but I know that an overspeed airplane should be recovered gently
Stephen Black of course. Every pilot knows this. But when you’re in the cockpit, in imc, and suddenly see yourself banked 100 degrees over diving towards the ground, your immediate reaction may not be to do the logical thing. Be careful, don’t fall into the trap of thinking that you’re immune to making the same bad decisions as other pilots.. cheers
So in this accident, what happened when he pulled back on the yoke? I wish you would explain more why his actions caused the plane to crash and what to do to avoid this from happening. Was he upside down when he pulled back?
+US MC at minute 2:53 the narrator states that the airplane's airspeed was about double the maneuvering speed of the aircraft. If an airplane is above its maneuvering speed, any abrupt changes in flight controls will cause structural damage to the airframe. In this case, the pilot should have decreased engine power to idle, and slowly pulled up from the nosedive, to make sure he doesn't put excess load on the airframe.
Ahhh! Makes sense. Thanks Mohammed.
Yes, and even in cases where the airplane has survived the pull-out from the dive structurally, the pilot's structure may not do so well as the G-force exerted can result in a loss of consciousness. Sometimes that may only last for seconds, but there may not be any seconds to spare in that circumstance. This is more typical in smaller but heavily-built aircraft like aerobatic or fighter types, the latter providing pressurized support to the pilot under this stress to avoid blood pooling in the extremities away from the brain. I seem to recall a case from many years ago of a high-performance, low-wing single being pulled out of a dive producing an estimated 7+ G's, the pilot went out cold, but was somehow still flying when he regained consciousness and he managed to land safely. The airplane, however, had a considerably increased dihedral and many of its wing rivets were popped--probably written off.
Just to supplement your answer, even experienced aerobatic pilots have been known to put themselves to sleep by pulling a little two hard. (Some manoeuvres are known as "sleepers" because of that.) I know of at least two probable cases. Even so, if you snap the wings off, as this case appears to have done, you might as well be asleep at impact. (No sense in dying scared.)
Mohammed Altuwairgi I believe that rolling wings level then pulling out gently would be the best course of action. Pulling back on a banked aircraft just increases the G forces without changing the decent. Agreed about putting the throttle to idle though.
I got a student pilot that complaints about how slow and uncool learning to fly in the C172. He brags about how much money he makes and how important time is to him. He is buying the PC12 with a business partner and plans to use it for business travel. I dropped him at lesson 2. Professionals that treat aviation merely as a mean to an end often end up badly. Their egos will be their undoing.
I was discussing buying a plane when I was a student. Budget had ne looking at things like 172s and Cherokees. I mentioned a Mooney might be possible to an instructor. He advised against it to start, referring it and other higher performance planes as doctor killers. People with more money than experience can get in over their heads easily.
Kudos for placing ethics ahead of money - that's where the rubber meets the pavement.
You should have told him to go buy a cirrus jet and find a flight instructor to train him in it. lol
The magenta line syndrome... Kills both ATPs and privates
Link to eyewitness video? What exactly happened? It broke up midair?
Rich and minimal skill doesn't just apply to aircraft. I've been into boats since teenage years and you see this a lot with boats and sports cars.
I cant believe his insurance let him fly solo with less then 200 hrs total dual time in type.
No one would ever be able to transition to that aircraft with such a requirement.
"I thought it was fully automatic pilot!"
Nicholas Littlejohn Otto Pilot
The airlines went through a phase of automation accidents when the planes started following lines on a screen programmed through flight computers. Something unexpected would happen, and the pilot would start pawing at the autopilot or typing into the FMC, leaving the airplane to continue on it's merry way into some serious Chuck Yeager attitudes than an MD-80 has no right to be in. They called these pilots "children of the magenta line" and reorganized their training to stop it. Broadly speaking, they were very successful. Pilots of respectable airlines are now trained to respond to automation anomalies by turning the automation off and flying the airplane, THEN troubleshooting the issue only once everything is under control and stable. If that means hand flying it all the way to the numbers like a DC-3 while the PNF holds the suicidal trim wheel in a death grip, you do that. Anything but being a front-seat passenger.
JFK made a very similar error in judgement, stepping up from mostly 172 time to a Piper Saratoga and turning down help from another pilot who offered to fly with him.
and he had a broken foot or something which meant he couldn't put full pressure on the rudders, really dumb.
Question for anyone out there. I've never flown an airplane in my life and have no intentions of ever doing it, but these videos are endlessly interesting to me so I watch a ton. Any questions from me, a guy who knows nothing:
Does anyone know why this plane crashed. Why would he disable autopilot or was it disabled some other way?
How could the bank angle get so steep without the pilot noticing? Seems obvious to someone like me but I've never flown an airplane before nor do I intend to.
What purpose, if any, would it serve to test the autopilot before attempting to recover from the steep angle?
Lastly, would this steep decent have been recoverable had he not applied the full aft elevator input? Could he have saved the flight had he eased into it or was it already too late?
Thanks again.
Here are likely answers:
1) pilot prolly turned off autopilot because his inner ear and other senses were screaming at him that he was straight and level… the general term is ‘vestibular illusion’, and is deadly deadly deadly in imc when pilots doubt their instruments. 2) if you can’t see the horizon or another fixed reference point, it is nearly impossible to know your orientation in space; human inner ear not evolved for 3 dimensions. 3) to recover from the dive, he should have a) reduced power b) leveled wings c) graaadddduuuualllllyyy pulled back on yoke
Should consider watching this vid: th-cam.com/video/b7t4IR-3mSo/w-d-xo.html
These non aviation industry private types, owning highly technical aircraft, are probably 'high achievers' and don't take kindly to being 'told what to do'.
NARRATOR: - It's just past noon on June 7th 2012...
ME: OH SHIT THEY'RE DOOMED!!!
I’m afraid that narrator would get about the same welcome around the airport as Jim Cantore does at the beach during hurricane season .
I'm not a pilot, I just think it's an interesting topic and want to learn. But theres one thing I can't understand. In these videos, every guy that gets in over his head stepping up to a more powerful aircraft ALWAYS has like 11 children with him when it crashes....
Given the 'rusty instrument rated pilot' failed to notice his turn and altitude indicator and the extreme bank and loss of altitude, basic instrument flying was not performed. The first problem was not getting currency instrument training. The pilot would also have been smarter to fly in good weather for at least 100 hours (possibly no real destination, just practice) to get cockpit management down pat before trying to use the aircraft on an actually flight that may have included IMC..
That this pilot refused to take an experienced pilot for at least 20 or more hours demonstrates the problem of the "V-tailed Doctor Killer", the Bonanza. For a period of time, the Bonanza was the plane of choice of busy, successful people who could afford the best airplane. These people were used to being in charge and not taking "no" for an answer. So they would take their new Bonanza into conditions that even a more experienced pilot would shy away from. I saw this at my home airport when a doctor with his family flew into a small, unlit airport airport at night and crashed, killing them all. Of course, it had nothing to do with the pilots being doctor or that the aircraft was a Bonanza. They were just rich and arrogant people thinking they could do anything better than other people. We still have a similar problem but they are no long usually doctors and there are many more advanced aircraft to choose from. There are thousands of business owners and IT professionals making tons of money and buying the fastest, hottest airplanes available. The pilot in this video chose the Pilatus, a very fine airplane but it was above his ability. Simulator training is good but for an inexperienced pilot, it isn't enough. If you can't afford proper training and a second pilot if it is a night or weather trip for 20-100 hours or so when stepping up in aircraft, or when your proficiency is waning, you can't afford the aircraft.
*_"Put another quarter in it, daddy!"_*
*_"Ina go agin!"_*
It should be one happy family with an outstanding new aircraft. It’s really sad.
that must have been a terrifying decent
As so many have said fly the aircrat. Any time the AP starts banking you in trouble.
The AP has disconnect or the in put data is wrong like switching from GPS or VOR or Heading bug
First step disconnect the A P and then hand fly the aircraft
At times it's hard to give at vice but for new pilots never rush take your time and wlatch some of those aircraft aftermath reports
It may just save your life and if you new and can afford it for the first year of flying try to do one night of touch & go's per week
It will help
Very sad, his own hubris not only cost him his life but his entire families what an asshole..
Every other case study involves the death of an entire family-father, mother, children. Sometimes even the family dog. God, this is depressing. What would it be like, watching the terrain fill the windshield, to know you are taking your family with you? That horrific realization, at least, wouldn’t last very long.
A voice recorder could be useful in a fancy aircraft like this?
I don't want to fly you plane you fly yourself!
Right. Automation Depended Pilot its called. An ADP PIlot.
Too much money. Few brains...
It is all too common for pilots of the new fangled "automated wonders" to try to get the Computer to again fly the aircraft rather then hand flying it through what ever rough spot you've put yourself in!
I can hear my old Instructor now; "FLY THE DAMN PLANE"!!!!!
So he pulled up when the plane was to fast and that caused the elevator to break or something? What would the correct course of action be if someone knows
Disclaimer: I’m not a pilot, but have binge-watched these accident case studies. :0. I think he should have pulled the throttles all the way back to slow the plane, leveled the wings, and then as gradually as possible, pulled back the yoke.
@@randomschmo5778 depends on the airspeed ,bank angle and abruptness at the point where he started to recover with the controls .
He may have passed the ‘ point of no return ‘ already---no-one can say .
As you can see the wings were still with the wreckage albeit damaged a bit , but the empennage [ tail plane ] was gone . This is why the NTSB knew it was pulled off when too much back yoke was applied by the pilot . Once the tail was gone the aircraft would tumble head over heels but the really heavy forces on the wings would be reduced somewhat , not enough to damage both though .
Apart from that ,though ,your sequence of actions would be what was necessary to recover .
Too many pilots pull back before leveling the wings and it’s this that finishes them with the tail gone .
Oh, i feel Like this has less to do with transitioning but more with the pilot being mentally lost in the Situation, seriously, testing the Autopilot before bringing the plane back to level flight??
I have a feeling a lot of these are the pilot not trusting what the instruments are reading. Very tragic.
They call them doctor killers
For a reason
Structure failure ? From overspeed?
Aviate, Navigate, Communicate, in that order.
Along with taking advice from more experienced pilots and being current, proficient and confident in the aircraft type.
Mad Cat #
This is just heartbreaking.
OMG. This happened to me, almost with fatal consequences. I reached my first solo flight training on one Cessna 172. That plane had detents for each flap setting. The first click down was 10 degrees. The switch stayed in that detent until you wanted more flaps at which point you went to the next detent. My second solo they gave me a different Cessna 172. Unbeknownst to me, that 172 had a flap switch like the one that was responsible for this accident. Once you put it in the down position the flaps ran out to 40 degrees unless you returned the switch to its original position.
I'm getting ready to turn base. This is my second solo flight. As trained I push the flaps button down one setting. I'm now turning base and the plane violently pitches into a nose up attitude and my speed dropped precipitously. As I was in the circuit turning base I was "low and slow". Thankfully the first 20 hours of training was so effective that I reflexively pushed the nose down and added a ton of power trying to figure out what was going on. The plane stabilized and I landed still not knowing I was at flaps 40. This really scared me. If I had done what it looks like a number of other pilots have done in that situation, pulled the nose up further to stop losing precious altitude, I have no doubt I would have gone down in a stall spin crash just outside the airport.
It really scared me. I flew a couple more times, but decided being a pilot was not for me.
Such a sad story, but necessary one to be told. If I've learned anything from these air disaster vids it would be to never rely too heavily on avionics.
Always
Fly the airplane
RULE 1:- FLY THE PLANE!!!
This happened to a friend of mine.....transitioned from a single eng 210 to twin eng Aerostar....killed himself and two others.....he owned the a/c a week.....and had just received his multi certification.....
wow when was this?
darwin