I've been through the Wyoming Valley and frankly, never even realized it. Which makes it my kind of place. Noteworthy places, well, look at Philadelphia. Need I say more?* *I was born in Philly, raised in Philly, then Delaware County. We boo our own teams, we throw rocks at people we *like*. People we don't like, well, we don't talk about that. Although, my company is sponsoring a contest. First prize is a week in Philadelphia. Second prize is two weeks in Philadelphia. Thank you, W.C. Fields. But then, it's easy to pick on Pennsylvania's only first class city. Why pick on Pittsburgh when Philly's lower hanging fruit? I'd insult Dauphin county, but containing Harrisburg, my current residence, that's insult enough. Did I miss anybody? :P
As a resident of the State of Wyoming for the first 21 years of my 81 years, I never heard of either the ship or the Wyoming Valley of Pennsylvania. I always assumed Wyoming was a western name of some sorts. Just goes to show that you can always learn something new.
I’ve been waiting for this episode for four years. As a reenactor who portrays Marines of both the American Civil War and the Second World War, I’ve always found this battle fascinating. The Choshū and Satsuma would end up being the “fathers” of much of the Japanese Empire and its military (with Choshū dominating the army’s early hierarchy and Satsuma the navy’s) and I’ve always seen this battle as a “missing link” of sorts between my two impressions. Eight decades; two wars; two common foes facing each other, the Japanese Empire and the United States Marine Corps and Navy. CDR McDougal had a Porter-class destroyer named for him, USS McDougal (DD-358) entering service in the 1930s. Ironically, she spent all of World War II in the Atlantic. On a final, poingnant note, one of Wyoming’s dead was a Marine: Private Alexander Furlong, 20, of Portland, ME. He enlisted at 18 in October of 1861, and was a prolific writer: many of his letters home are preserved in David Sullivan’s four-volume “The United States Marine Corps in the Civil War.” In of his last letters from the cruise, he wrote his mother that he was saving up for a home out west and that he hoped she was “looking for a wife” for him once the war had ended. Within a month of writing that, he was dead: a forgotten combatant in someone else’s war, a war whose outcome would put that “someone else” on a collision course for an even more destructive clash with the United States less than a century later. Excellent work, THG.
The tension you speak of echoed in my mothers letters to home when she lived in Sendai from 1934-1938. She visited Ambassador Grew and his wife on more than one occasion and her performance in Tokyo of Mendelssohn's Elijah with Ugo Nakada and the young ladies she was teaching at Miyagi Girls School did not sit well with the Japanese. In a conversation with Ambassador Grew in 1938, he was very clear that she should return home as soon as possible as relations between the two countries had worsened significantly after the Panay.
Around 80 years later (and 80 years ago), another fleet - this time of B-29 bombers - returned to mine the Straits. These missions had to be flown at very low altitude, and, due to the presence of shore batteries, had to be conducted at night. Although several planes and crews were lost, many more Japanese ships and crews were lost when they attempted to navigate the mined Straits. So, it was interesting to hear that these Straits have played such an important role in our relations with Japan for so many years.
That was the beginning of Operation Starvation, to date the largest blockade of an enemy country's harbors via mining, and it cluminated in the summer of 1945 with the closure of literally all Japanese ports
Good morning from Ft Worth TX History Guy and everyone watching...OS1 USN Retired. Spent 4 months in Yokosuka Japan in 1986 while deployed on USS Cape Cod AD 43...I served on USS Semmes DDG 18 1983-84...
I enjoy your videos very much. When I saw the title included the USS Wyoming I was intrigued. My grandfather served as a Marine aboard the battleship Wyoming half a century later. I was not aware of the vessel that had preceded the battleship.
The Wyoming is pictured (4:53) anchored in the Severn River off the United States Naval Academy. The Maryland State House is clearly visible on the left, and just a hint of the spire of St. Anne’s Church sticks up above the ship’s funnel. The prominent dome of the Naval Academy Chapel is missing because it wouldn’t be built for nearly forty years.
So. This one fit your tag line for me. I knew about this. Read about this. Studied this. Even wrote about this. Just in the early 70s. I had forgotten. Not the details. The whole thing. I did not recognize the vessel or the location. Didn’t even remember the country or the era. Thank you. I hate forgetting hard earned knowledge.
Japanese plan for when the Americans got around to asking what happened to their missing ship: "Enh, don't know. Probably pirates." (Don't all good sea stories...)
As a lover of history with an undergraduate degree in East Asian Studies, I always enjoy your video presentations. Especially those with an East Asian perspective. Edo is pronounced “aydoh” not “eedo” which is a common occurrence.
I suspect that the Japanese were firing cannons that had not been upgraded much (or at all) since the 17th century. The Tokugawa Shogunate restrictions on firearm manufacture stagnated the industry.
Thank you for sharing this! As an American, who now happens to live in Yamaguchi Prefecture, this really was something I wasn't familiar with!! Awesome!!
Thank you for making this! I’ve had a very basic & general knowledge of these events but never knew the details. This is very informative and awesome 🤩 thanks!
13:15 *Please* make a video on that ship: CSS Stonewall/ IJN Kotetsu. She was built in France for the Confederacy under the false name “Sphinx”, with the cover story being that she had been ordered by the Egyptian Navy. When the ruse was discovered, the French sold the ship to Denmark to avoid political blowback. But after Denmark lost the Second Schleswig War to Prussia, the ship was sold on to the Confederacy anyway. She was in Cuba in mid-1865 when her captain learned the Confederacy had collapsed, so she was sold to Spain on the spot. Then the USA demanded Spain hand the ship over, which Spain did to avoid a diplomatic incident. Briefly taken into the US Navy, she was surplus to the requirements of the post-war fleet and sold to the Tokugawa Shogunate. But before Stonewall could arrive in Japan the 1868 Boshin War broke out and the State Department ordered her to be kept at sea until it was clear who would win. After Edo fell to the Saigo Takamori’s army the ship was finally turned over to Imperial Government and given the name IJN Kotetsu. Considering that she was at least tangentially related to the birth of the modern Middle East, Unification of Germany, American Civil War, and Meiji Restoration, the Stonewall/Kotetsu was the Forrest Gump of ironclads.
Superb work again sir... I recall a passing remark on the battle in an edition of "The Civil War' documentary - now I know what the vague reference was about!
The USA fired the first shots of WW2 against Japan--in 1853 in Tokyo Harbor. Admiral Yamamoto's father was a 15 year old samurai when Commodore Perry started that war. Japan bided its time, modernized, absolutely destroyed the Czar's navy in 1905, and never looked back. Its idea of a good defense against Western imperialism was a good offense. It is really that simple. Had it failed modernize its navy at such an absolutely dizzying pace would have resulted in its being another Philippines (Spanish before 1898), Indonesia (Dutch), or just another opium addicted nation British drug dealers turned on to opium like Britain intentionally did the Chinese.
Terrific episode of a favorite show. Though in this case I must demur over the 'threats' issued by Matthew Perry. I have read the original reports. And yes, there were plenty of IMPLICIT 'threats' - e.g. Perry waiting till a stiff wind swept down-harbor to enter Edo Bay, showing the power of steam. But he was actually extremely careful not to prod samurai honor with explicit bluster, emphasizing courtly ceremony and lavish gifts. Besides, even a hundred or a thousand such ships could do nothing to Japanese insularity beyond cannon range., so what 'threats?' No, the lesson that he taught was "See how the world is passing you by?" Perry was brilliantly competent and he is not viewed with ill favor in Japan. -- David Brin, author of The Postman and EARTH
That's fascinating history, thanks! Reminds me of when I was a Cold War Sailor and not getting many medals sailing near Iran, Russia and North Korea, then getting many medals for being at OIF in the 2000s.
Dear THG, I notice you often offer your content on events that happened on or close to the date they occurred. I had suggested the Hartford, Connecticut circus fire tragedy of July 6, 1944. (Tomorrow.) A terrible blow to families trying to find a little respite during a grim War. Maybe next year?
I knew the story because I've visited those straits. It's a shame we don't really talk about the US in Eadt Asia unless we are talking about the Korean war or Vietnam
Thank you for this piece of ACW action outside of the United States. It is important for more Americans to know that ACW was more than a domestic dispute.
My wife’s family is from the Wyoming Valley. I will share this with them. Seems the Japanese prefer surface naval battles at night. 80 years later we were fighting them again.
If possible, I would like to suggest some topics ... 1. Shortly after the Civil War, the US sent a ship, a few ships ...? to Korea, an expedition which ended unfortunate, as far as the Koreans sunk the US ship. What was the story behind it...? 2. When the US bought Alaska from Russia,, an interesting topic by itself, there were disputes over territories and borders with Canada. I once heard the disputes were settled by a committee which was influenced/ pressed by the Americans to conceide teriitories to the US. Is this a story worth your time..?
#1. This is the very obscure US expedition to Korea of 1871 or the Shinmiyangyo Hanja incident in Korean. The cause was the violation of Korean trade practices by the American merchantman USS General Sherman, which was attacked and set afire by Korean soldiers. Both the French government and the US sent military expeditions to Korea to try to convince them to end their isolationist stances.
#2 That is the Alaskan Boundary dispute of 1898-1903. There was an gold rush in and around the Alaskan panhandle that did not have a clear border. The Americans and British (through the dominion of Canada) has different views on where the border was. It was resolved by arbitration in 1903 by three Americans, one Brit, and two Canadians. Due, to the desire of wanting better relations with the United States, the Brit sided with the Americans. So the border today is mostly what the Americans wanted. The British needed American friendliness over Canadian love. The United States was a growing major power that the United Kingdom wanted to be on good terms with, and Canada was just one of the empire’s many colonies admittedly one of the few with the special status of a Dominion.
Doomo arigatou Mr. History Guy! We live close to Mojiko (heaps of history) where this action took place. They've got a big "Drama Ship" like presentation attraction for all the touro types coming from Honshu to Kyushu to have a look around. Best I remember the way they explain it in Japanese, the politics of all this was real confusing, no one had any real idea about good guys and bad guys in those days. Thanks for the good gear!
This battle demonstrates the superiority of the American sailor. With no combat experience to their credit, the crew of USS Wyoming were able to rely on their training to carry out the astute orders of their captain with a degree of aplomb that should be the envy of every foreign navy afloat.
Thats funny 😂 In this time period American sailors were considered third rate, the French and Spanish were much better trained and the British would have made a mockery of them. The Japanese were very inexperienced with naval combat and comparatively lacked experience with cannon and artillery.
@@Jake12220 American sailors considered third-rate by whom? Leftists such as you? What's wrong with you? American sailors had racked up significant victories against the British Royal Navy in both the Revolutionary War and War of 1812, had embarrassed the French fleet on numerous occasions and destroyed the Spanish Fleet both in Cuba and the Battle of Manila Bay in the Philippines during the Spanish American War. Learn some history, soyboy; before you badmouth the U.S. Navy. Come after me, snowflake ❄️, you'll lose the debate.
I don't think that is a fair assessment of the US Navy in 1863. There was a decline after the Civil War, but it had become a very professional and modern force by 1863. Conversely, the Royal Navy was at a lull during the period between the Napoleonic wars and the competition with Germany. I think the crew of Wyoming would have been considered the equal of any European crew at the time.
@@Jake12220 The American Navy was considered third-rate during most of the 19th century primarily because of its small size and lack of ships of the line, not so much for the quality of its men. That the French had a better Navy during this time than the Americans isn't anything remarkable or shameful. France was one of the great powers of the world and was starting to rebuilt its overseas empire (this time in Africa). Napoleon III was big on the French military. France had one of the top navies in the world for centuries, only declining after WW2 when it ceased to have much need for one. France's navy lost frequently, but those losses came primarily at the hands of the Royal Navy, the unquestioned biggest and best Navy in the world. I'm not so sure about Spain by the 1860s. They were in steady decline through most of the 19th century in the wave of suffering from the Napoleonic Wars then losing most of their overseas empire in its immediate aftermath. By the 1890s the Spanish Navy would be a shell of its former self.
Interesting and fascinating. Ridiculous that there was no award or recognition for the brave crew. Admin: the end segment was FAR LOUDER then the rest of the video.
It's probably worth noting that the Shiminoseki Straight is subject to massively fast tidal currents which reverse direction with each tidal cycle. For such low powered and slow ships, the action would have been time limited to a short window of slack water and favourable currents. Some canny seamanship would have been involved for sure.
One has to wonder if the US government actually knew the CSS Alabama wasn't in the Pacific but elements of it used the notion as an excuse to restore US naval presence there...
In its travels from Mare Island to Japan and then to Philadelphia, assuming it sailed via Cape of Good Hope, did the Wyoming truly circumnavigate the world?
Although the CSS Alabama never got to the Pacific, the CSS Shenandoah did. The latter rampaged through the US whaling fleet even after the war ended as its crew didn't learn of the Confederate surrender until 1866. The US whaling fleet never recovered from their losses during the American Civil War; the whales, undoubtedly, rejoiced.
A superb episode, absolutely fantastic with an unasked question. Did Commodore Perry and American business interests start the WW2 conflict with Japan? "Yes," is my answer. In response to Perry's threats as he sailed around Tokyo Harbor, Japan submitted to the shakedown and intimidation like so many have to threats from the Mafia. Its response? Here's one.. The most amazing militarization of its navy such that some 50 years later, it stunned the European and American powers by destroying the Czar's fleet. The Japanese got the message. India, the Philippines, Indochina, Indonesia, et al, would be its lot as a vassal of foreign business interests, unless it armed itself to the teeth and without delay. It did. And it then decided it could beat European and American imperialism with its own brand. It lost. (Now, China looms large.)
You can certainly make the argument, though at some point a cause is so distant from the effect that it's not directly relevant. I think one can also argue that the conservative backlash against Meiji-tenno's linkage of Westernisation and modernisation during the Restoration period was at least as strong a contributing cause. And while this is certainly outside of my area of focus, the general studies of done on the Second World War make me think that the backlash was probably *much* more significant, with Perry having faded into a general sense of outrage and xenophobia by 1940.
Hey History Guy. Do you know they still sing a song about the Albania in Cape Town South Africa. Maybe you could do an episode of the Albania's visit and the song that's sung 160 years after the event. It's sung during the second new year by the coloured (mixed race)during a carnival with troops competing for prize money on January 2nd. Hence second new year.
Vicksburg did not cement U.S. control of the Mississippi River. A Confederate garrison held out at Port Hudson for several days afterwards before surrendering to Banks.
An interesting piece of history I knew nothing about. Yet in the end neither us or the European powers had any right to force the Japanese to open themselves at the point of a gun.
This is what led to the war in the Pacific. Countless Americans, Japanese and plenty of other nations men and women died due to this fiasco America considered diplomacy. Sadly the USA continues to act like an upstart child running around with a big stick and omg does it ever throw a tantrum anytime it gets a smack for being such a tool. If only America could take some responsibility and accept there is good reason why it's one of the most hated countries in the world.
This is a small little "bite" of History as regards one ship, the Wyoming. It was a brief visit. Mentioned but not covered was the follow up action of allied western powers + USA in September 1864 with a large fleet of multinational warships & marines! The Japanese political view & the USA + European Powers situation is much better explained in the following historical reporting of the much bigger battle of the western allied powers + USA also fought in the Shimonoseki Straits againsts the Japanese war lord Choshiu. (Daimio = War Lord)). This involved land battles. Many Other Japanese war lords (Daimio) in the area were not at war with the Eropeans. Mostly it was the Daimio Choshiu & Satsuma and they in turn were at war with other Japanese Daimio. Yes it was true the Japanese had a policy of isolating all foriegners in Nagasaki. Yes the USA & others wanted more trade but so did the Japanese want western Technology. The Dutch at the time had built a "steam" factory for them 3 years previous & that was a massive jump forward in Tec that was still expanding! At the time of the Wyoming visit the Japanese had ship building contracts with the British (Using British Technology) & both parties were happy with the trade. The Japanese were also making imitation USA Winchester rifles...... to give away as gifts to western visiters........ to show off their engineering skills. (One of my English relatives was given one in 1864 to take home with him as a sign of friendship by the Japanese Governor of Nagasaki Hatori Sayemonosaki, One should remember the Americian civil war was still on going & there was some tension over the USA blocking cotton exports to British factorys........though not at war (british had an anti slavery fleet of war ships that had blocked slaves going to the USA for years upsetting USA). So there was a lot more to the whole situation than one american ship forcing its self on to Japan. The politics were complex! If anyone seriously wants more it is covered in the book : Two Admirals : Admiral of the Fleet Sir Fairfax Moresby (1786-1877) And His Son John Moresby. Published in 1909 reprints are still availible & the book covers a LOT MORE than the above from british war ship actions first hand in actions in 1800,s. Including of interest today coverage of a western alliance fighting in Crimea with all likely hood of the same result. E-mail Facsimile Publisher Delhi India
Pretty weird that everyone is going on about the heroism of a bunch of invaders. America wouldn't be a tenth of what it is without it's tendency for violent adventurism.
Did you forget that the second time the Americans tried to trade with Japan, and again Japan refused... an hour later the fleet opened fire on Edo killing countless citizens who were unable to defend themselves?!? This moment changed Japan forever!!! Don't know if you noticed but America has a tendency of literally creating enemies!!!;)
Just curious: was it American honor that threatened/bullied Japan if Japan didn't open its ports? Maybe Pearl Harbor was payback for being blackmailed into signing a treaty Japan never wanted. Just ask native Americans how most of their treaties with America turned out.
I am certainly Not a fan of gun boat diplomacy. It was good for both nations in the long run. But it laid the seeds of discontent that finally erupted at Pearl Harbor.. The Battle for the Pacific was a bllod bath that took massive bombing to end.
A preemptive sneak attack on an unarmed vessel fails to sink said vessel. That's the truly shameful part. "Honor" is debatable. Incompetence and ineffectiveness are inexcusable.
Interesting that the Japanese used items against the US which were 😢 sold or givento them. Same thing appeares to have happened in WW2. How much has the US given or sold to countries lately? Will it be used against the US?
Works both ways. SR71's are mostly titanium, which comes from Russia. Japan sped up their war plans because we embargoed oil exports to them. They got most of the steel for all those weapons, ordinance, "tanks" (lol) and ships from us in the decades before as well.
But they also only modernized and went down the war path because of the pressure America put on them. If it wasn't for American gunboat diplomacy and meddling then Japan probably would have remained far more isolationist under a shogunate rule.
🙋🏽♂️ Millard Fillmore. One of the more forgettable presidents. Yet apparently pulled off one of the most substantial bits of foreign policy since the Mexican War? What brought this on exactly? As I recall, up to this point the United States has not played a role in Asia.
Not the US government so much, but "Western ships were increasing their presence around Japan due to whaling activities and the trade with China. They were hoping for Japan to become a base for supply or at least a place where shipwrecks could receive assistance." en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bakumatsu#Background
"Yet apparently pulled off one of the most substantial bits of foreign policy since the Mexican War" Significant, yes. But I'm not sure that showing up at someone's doorstep with a fleet of warships to demand they trade with you whether they want to or nor is an event worthy of celebration.
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At 27 I had no idea this happened and the fact that this happened about 2 weeks after Gettysburg is absolutely mind blowing. Thank you so much!
As a resident of the Wyoming Valley, I had never heard of this vessel. Thank you.
I've been through the Wyoming Valley and frankly, never even realized it.
Which makes it my kind of place. Noteworthy places, well, look at Philadelphia. Need I say more?*
*I was born in Philly, raised in Philly, then Delaware County. We boo our own teams, we throw rocks at people we *like*. People we don't like, well, we don't talk about that.
Although, my company is sponsoring a contest. First prize is a week in Philadelphia. Second prize is two weeks in Philadelphia.
Thank you, W.C. Fields.
But then, it's easy to pick on Pennsylvania's only first class city. Why pick on Pittsburgh when Philly's lower hanging fruit?
I'd insult Dauphin county, but containing Harrisburg, my current residence, that's insult enough.
Did I miss anybody? :P
As a resident of the State of Wyoming for the first 21 years of my 81 years, I never heard of either the ship or the Wyoming Valley of Pennsylvania. I always assumed Wyoming was a western name of some sorts. Just goes to show that you can always learn something new.
I’ve been waiting for this episode for four years. As a reenactor who portrays Marines of both the American Civil War and the Second World War, I’ve always found this battle fascinating. The Choshū and Satsuma would end up being the “fathers” of much of the Japanese Empire and its military (with Choshū dominating the army’s early hierarchy and Satsuma the navy’s) and I’ve always seen this battle as a “missing link” of sorts between my two impressions. Eight decades; two wars; two common foes facing each other, the Japanese Empire and the United States Marine Corps and Navy. CDR McDougal had a Porter-class destroyer named for him, USS McDougal (DD-358) entering service in the 1930s. Ironically, she spent all of World War II in the Atlantic. On a final, poingnant note, one of Wyoming’s dead was a Marine: Private Alexander Furlong, 20, of Portland, ME. He enlisted at 18 in October of 1861, and was a prolific writer: many of his letters home are preserved in David Sullivan’s four-volume “The United States Marine Corps in the Civil War.” In of his last letters from the cruise, he wrote his mother that he was saving up for a home out west and that he hoped she was “looking for a wife” for him once the war had ended. Within a month of writing that, he was dead: a forgotten combatant in someone else’s war, a war whose outcome would put that “someone else” on a collision course for an even more destructive clash with the United States less than a century later. Excellent work, THG.
The tension you speak of echoed in my mothers letters to home when she lived in Sendai from 1934-1938. She visited Ambassador Grew and his wife on more than one occasion and her performance in Tokyo of Mendelssohn's Elijah with Ugo Nakada and the young ladies she was teaching at Miyagi Girls School did not sit well with the Japanese. In a conversation with Ambassador Grew in 1938, he was very clear that she should return home as soon as possible as relations between the two countries had worsened significantly after the Panay.
Not sure what you mean by ‘someone else’s war.’ The Japanese attacked his ship first.
Around 80 years later (and 80 years ago), another fleet - this time of B-29 bombers - returned to mine the Straits. These missions had to be flown at very low altitude, and, due to the presence of shore batteries, had to be conducted at night. Although several planes and crews were lost, many more Japanese ships and crews were lost when they attempted to navigate the mined Straits. So, it was interesting to hear that these Straits have played such an important role in our relations with Japan for so many years.
That was the beginning of Operation Starvation, to date the largest blockade of an enemy country's harbors via mining, and it cluminated in the summer of 1945 with the closure of literally all Japanese ports
Good morning from Ft Worth TX History Guy and everyone watching...OS1 USN Retired. Spent 4 months in Yokosuka Japan in 1986 while deployed on USS Cape Cod AD 43...I served on USS Semmes DDG 18 1983-84...
Love it. I was only 4 years old then and appreciate everything that came before me
This was really cool! Never heard of this battle before now.
Yo!
Thank you!
I enjoy your videos very much. When I saw the title included the USS Wyoming I was intrigued. My grandfather served as a Marine aboard the battleship Wyoming half a century later. I was not aware of the vessel that had preceded the battleship.
The Wyoming is pictured (4:53) anchored in the Severn River off the United States Naval Academy. The Maryland State House is clearly visible on the left, and just a hint of the spire of St. Anne’s Church sticks up above the ship’s funnel. The prominent dome of the Naval Academy Chapel is missing because it wouldn’t be built for nearly forty years.
Excellent story and presentation. Thank you.
The Kings and Generals channel did an excellent documentary on this time of Japanese history.
So. This one fit your tag line for me. I knew about this. Read about this. Studied this. Even wrote about this. Just in the early 70s.
I had forgotten. Not the details. The whole thing. I did not recognize the vessel or the location. Didn’t even remember the country or the era.
Thank you. I hate forgetting hard earned knowledge.
Thank You for letting us know about the Wyoming. We never learned about it in school.
I love stories of naval engagements. And your charismatic telling is always sure to delight.
Japanese plan for when the Americans got around to asking what happened to their missing ship: "Enh, don't know. Probably pirates."
(Don't all good sea stories...)
Brilliant story! Well told and presented. Once more a classic THG. Thank you.
Hope you had a great 4th of July THG!
Amazing! I have never heard of this battle!
THG you rock! Thanks for the great story. Peace
As a lover of history with an undergraduate degree in East Asian Studies, I always enjoy your video presentations. Especially those with an East Asian perspective. Edo is pronounced “aydoh” not “eedo” which is a common occurrence.
Or another way to address the pronunciation issue is the E is the "e" of "bet" and the O is the "o" of "boat"
I suspect that the Japanese were firing cannons that had not been upgraded much (or at all) since the 17th century. The Tokugawa Shogunate restrictions on firearm manufacture stagnated the industry.
Thanks!
Thank you, Lance!
thanks
Thank you for sharing this! As an American, who now happens to live in Yamaguchi Prefecture, this really was something I wasn't familiar with!! Awesome!!
Thank you for making this! I’ve had a very basic & general knowledge of these events but never knew the details. This is very informative and awesome 🤩 thanks!
13:15 *Please* make a video on that ship: CSS Stonewall/ IJN Kotetsu. She was built in France for the Confederacy under the false name “Sphinx”, with the cover story being that she had been ordered by the Egyptian Navy. When the ruse was discovered, the French sold the ship to Denmark to avoid political blowback. But after Denmark lost the Second Schleswig War to Prussia, the ship was sold on to the Confederacy anyway. She was in Cuba in mid-1865 when her captain learned the Confederacy had collapsed, so she was sold to Spain on the spot. Then the USA demanded Spain hand the ship over, which Spain did to avoid a diplomatic incident. Briefly taken into the US Navy, she was surplus to the requirements of the post-war fleet and sold to the Tokugawa Shogunate. But before Stonewall could arrive in Japan the 1868 Boshin War broke out and the State Department ordered her to be kept at sea until it was clear who would win. After Edo fell to the Saigo Takamori’s army the ship was finally turned over to Imperial Government and given the name IJN Kotetsu.
Considering that she was at least tangentially related to the birth of the modern Middle East, Unification of Germany, American Civil War, and Meiji Restoration, the Stonewall/Kotetsu was the Forrest Gump of ironclads.
Superb work again sir... I recall a passing remark on the battle in an edition of "The Civil War' documentary - now I know what the vague reference was about!
The results of the Battle of Shimonoseki Straits were amongst primary drivers of Japanese modernisation movement.
The USA fired the first shots of WW2 against Japan--in 1853 in Tokyo Harbor. Admiral Yamamoto's father was a 15 year old samurai when Commodore Perry started that war. Japan bided its time, modernized, absolutely destroyed the Czar's navy in 1905, and never looked back. Its idea of a good defense against Western imperialism was a good offense. It is really that simple. Had it failed modernize its navy at such an absolutely dizzying pace would have resulted in its being another Philippines (Spanish before 1898), Indonesia (Dutch), or just another opium addicted nation British drug dealers turned on to opium like Britain intentionally did the Chinese.
He deserves the Navy Cross and a commendation for the crew. I hope some relative or influential person views this video and pushes for the awards.
WOW! Good Job! I did not know!
Excellent
Terrific episode of a favorite show. Though in this case I must demur over the 'threats' issued by Matthew Perry. I have read the original reports. And yes, there were plenty of IMPLICIT 'threats' - e.g. Perry waiting till a stiff wind swept down-harbor to enter Edo Bay, showing the power of steam. But he was actually extremely careful not to prod samurai honor with explicit bluster, emphasizing courtly ceremony and lavish gifts. Besides, even a hundred or a thousand such ships could do nothing to Japanese insularity beyond cannon range., so what 'threats?' No, the lesson that he taught was "See how the world is passing you by?" Perry was brilliantly competent and he is not viewed with ill favor in Japan. -- David Brin, author of The Postman and EARTH
excellent, as always.
Wow. Never heard of this before. Thanks!
The love for history is in my blood keep it up I enjoy learning more🙂
Thank you.🎶💥🌸
Excellent. Good night
That's fascinating history, thanks! Reminds me of when I was a Cold War Sailor and not getting many medals sailing near Iran, Russia and North Korea, then getting many medals for being at OIF in the 2000s.
As someone who lives in Shimonoseki, and who has visited the shore batteries and the memorials, I'm glad to see this show up!
I appreciate you, thank you for making content.
Wonderful video of forgotten history that made a difference. Thanks!
Fantastic episode! Lance is a National Treasure! (but don’t let it go to your head) 😊
Such great content, thank you!
Dear THG, I notice you often offer your content on events that happened on or close to the date they occurred. I had suggested the Hartford, Connecticut circus fire tragedy of July 6, 1944. (Tomorrow.) A terrible blow to families trying to find a little respite during
a grim War. Maybe next year?
Somehow I believe this probably played a role to what happened in WWII.
Oh yeah, especially how we meddled in their politics, then backed up the emperor with arms shipments...
I knew the story because I've visited those straits. It's a shame we don't really talk about the US in Eadt Asia unless we are talking about the Korean war or Vietnam
Thank you for this piece of ACW action outside of the United States. It is important for more Americans to know that ACW was more than a domestic dispute.
Thank you 🙏 very cool
Legend 🫡
My wife’s family is from the Wyoming Valley. I will share this with them. Seems the Japanese prefer surface naval battles at night. 80 years later we were fighting them again.
If possible, I would like to suggest some topics ...
1. Shortly after the Civil War, the US sent a ship, a few ships ...? to Korea, an expedition which ended unfortunate, as far as the Koreans sunk the US ship.
What was the story behind it...?
2. When the US bought Alaska from Russia,, an interesting topic by itself, there were disputes over territories and borders with Canada. I once heard the disputes were settled by a committee which was influenced/ pressed by the Americans to conceide teriitories to the US.
Is this a story worth your time..?
#1. This is the very obscure US expedition to Korea of 1871 or the Shinmiyangyo Hanja incident in Korean. The cause was the violation of Korean trade practices by the American merchantman USS General Sherman, which was attacked and set afire by Korean soldiers. Both the French government and the US sent military expeditions to Korea to try to convince them to end their isolationist stances.
#2 That is the Alaskan Boundary dispute of 1898-1903. There was an gold rush in and around the Alaskan panhandle that did not have a clear border. The Americans and British (through the dominion of Canada) has different views on where the border was.
It was resolved by arbitration in 1903 by three Americans, one Brit, and two Canadians. Due, to the desire of wanting better relations with the United States, the Brit sided with the Americans. So the border today is mostly what the Americans wanted.
The British needed American friendliness over Canadian love. The United States was a growing major power that the United Kingdom wanted to be on good terms with, and Canada was just one of the empire’s many colonies admittedly one of the few with the special status of a Dominion.
Doomo arigatou Mr. History Guy! We live close to Mojiko (heaps of history) where this action took place. They've got a big "Drama Ship" like presentation attraction for all the touro types coming from Honshu to Kyushu to have a look around. Best I remember the way they explain it in Japanese, the politics of all this was real confusing, no one had any real idea about good guys and bad guys in those days. Thanks for the good gear!
This battle demonstrates the superiority of the American sailor. With no combat experience to their credit, the crew of USS Wyoming were able to rely on their training to carry out the astute orders of their captain with a degree of aplomb that should be the envy of every foreign navy afloat.
Thats funny 😂
In this time period American sailors were considered third rate, the French and Spanish were much better trained and the British would have made a mockery of them.
The Japanese were very inexperienced with naval combat and comparatively lacked experience with cannon and artillery.
@@Jake12220 American sailors considered third-rate by whom? Leftists such as you? What's wrong with you?
American sailors had racked up significant victories against the British Royal Navy in both the Revolutionary War and War of 1812, had embarrassed the French fleet on numerous occasions and destroyed the Spanish Fleet both in Cuba and the Battle of Manila Bay in the Philippines during the Spanish American War. Learn some history, soyboy; before you badmouth the U.S. Navy.
Come after me, snowflake ❄️, you'll lose the debate.
I don't think that is a fair assessment of the US Navy in 1863. There was a decline after the Civil War, but it had become a very professional and modern force by 1863. Conversely, the Royal Navy was at a lull during the period between the Napoleonic wars and the competition with Germany. I think the crew of Wyoming would have been considered the equal of any European crew at the time.
@@Jake12220 The American Navy was considered third-rate during most of the 19th century primarily because of its small size and lack of ships of the line, not so much for the quality of its men.
That the French had a better Navy during this time than the Americans isn't anything remarkable or shameful. France was one of the great powers of the world and was starting to rebuilt its overseas empire (this time in Africa). Napoleon III was big on the French military. France had one of the top navies in the world for centuries, only declining after WW2 when it ceased to have much need for one. France's navy lost frequently, but those losses came primarily at the hands of the Royal Navy, the unquestioned biggest and best Navy in the world.
I'm not so sure about Spain by the 1860s. They were in steady decline through most of the 19th century in the wave of suffering from the Napoleonic Wars then losing most of their overseas empire in its immediate aftermath. By the 1890s the Spanish Navy would be a shell of its former self.
@@Jake12220nice answer. Did Japan just recently developing its navy?
Interesting and fascinating. Ridiculous that there was no award or recognition for the brave crew.
Admin: the end segment was FAR LOUDER then the rest of the video.
John Wayne made a movie talking about some of this called the geisha and the barbarian
MORE OF YALL NEED TO HIT LIKE.
Excellent video, and the Alabama is my favorite ship
It's probably worth noting that the Shiminoseki Straight is subject to massively fast tidal currents which reverse direction with each tidal cycle. For such low powered and slow ships, the action would have been time limited to a short window of slack water and favourable currents. Some canny seamanship would have been involved for sure.
Can you do a video about the London Bridge moving from London to Lake Havasu City, AZ?
CSA Alabama power was damp rendering her not able to defeat the USS Kearsarge with dry power to charge her cannon.....
Thanks to THG🎀
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One has to wonder if the US government actually knew the CSS Alabama wasn't in the Pacific but elements of it used the notion as an excuse to restore US naval presence there...
In its travels from Mare Island to Japan and then to Philadelphia, assuming it sailed via Cape of Good Hope, did the Wyoming truly circumnavigate the world?
I never heard of this lone action at Shimonoseki by the USS Wyoming. Overshadowed by the later allied land & sea campaign there.
Although the CSS Alabama never got to the Pacific, the CSS Shenandoah did. The latter rampaged through the US whaling fleet even after the war ended as its crew didn't learn of the Confederate surrender until 1866. The US whaling fleet never recovered from their losses during the American Civil War; the whales, undoubtedly, rejoiced.
A superb episode, absolutely fantastic with an unasked question. Did Commodore Perry and American business interests start the WW2 conflict with Japan? "Yes," is my answer. In response to Perry's threats as he sailed around Tokyo Harbor, Japan submitted to the shakedown and intimidation like so many have to threats from the Mafia. Its response? Here's one.. The most amazing militarization of its navy such that some 50 years later, it stunned the European and American powers by destroying the Czar's fleet. The Japanese got the message. India, the Philippines, Indochina, Indonesia, et al, would be its lot as a vassal of foreign business interests, unless it armed itself to the teeth and without delay. It did. And it then decided it could beat European and American imperialism with its own brand. It lost. (Now, China looms large.)
A.V.G. FedX
You can certainly make the argument, though at some point a cause is so distant from the effect that it's not directly relevant. I think one can also argue that the conservative backlash against Meiji-tenno's linkage of Westernisation and modernisation during the Restoration period was at least as strong a contributing cause. And while this is certainly outside of my area of focus, the general studies of done on the Second World War make me think that the backlash was probably *much* more significant, with Perry having faded into a general sense of outrage and xenophobia by 1940.
@@davydatwood3158 Thank you for your extremely well reasoned reply. I may respond more fully later.
The battle was "little note[d] nor long remembered..." Did you intend to echo the Gettysburg Address.
Hey History Guy.
Do you know they still sing a song about the Albania in Cape Town South Africa.
Maybe you could do an episode of the Albania's visit and the song that's sung 160 years after the event.
It's sung during the second new year by the coloured (mixed race)during a carnival with troops competing for prize money on January 2nd.
Hence second new year.
Such great stories.
Could you do a show about Captain Winslow.
My 7 year old girl is named after him
Did Hollywood ever make a movie about it?
Not that I know of
1.How many casualties were on both sides during this battle? What about the final battle?
2. May I ask where you got your sources?
Vicksburg did not cement U.S. control of the Mississippi River. A Confederate garrison held out at Port Hudson for several days afterwards before surrendering to Banks.
An interesting piece of history I knew nothing about. Yet in the end neither us or the European powers had any right to force the Japanese to open themselves at the point of a gun.
A bit of history new to me. Ta very muchly.
Everyone has the human right to free trade. And those who restrict those human rights must be resisted.
Do you have any info in the ACW Gunship Windsor that sank in the Mississippi south of St Louis by Imperial MO/ Valmeyer Illinois?
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I don't think Japan remembered this story during the year of 1941.
🙏✝️🇺🇸✝️🙏 #AmericaFirst
This is what led to the war in the Pacific. Countless Americans, Japanese and plenty of other nations men and women died due to this fiasco America considered diplomacy.
Sadly the USA continues to act like an upstart child running around with a big stick and omg does it ever throw a tantrum anytime it gets a smack for being such a tool. If only America could take some responsibility and accept there is good reason why it's one of the most hated countries in the world.
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Roll Alabama Roll!
saying equipment to potential hostile nations that eventually backfires on the U.S.....you think we would learn.
To be sure, most Japanese people don't remember the Battle of Shimonoseki either. You would have to give them a lot of clues before they remember it.
"The United States is a peaceful nation" --George W. Bush
Wonder how long that letter took to get to the US.
Music volume is high, talking volume is low, but great content.
♥️🇺🇸
This is a small little "bite" of History as regards one ship, the Wyoming. It was a brief visit. Mentioned but not covered was the follow up action of allied western powers + USA in September 1864 with a large fleet of multinational warships & marines! The Japanese political view & the USA + European Powers situation is much better explained in the following historical reporting of the much bigger battle of the western allied powers + USA also fought in the Shimonoseki Straits againsts the Japanese war lord Choshiu. (Daimio = War Lord)). This involved land battles. Many Other Japanese war lords (Daimio) in the area were not at war with the Eropeans. Mostly it was the Daimio Choshiu & Satsuma and they in turn were at war with other Japanese Daimio. Yes it was true the Japanese had a policy of isolating all foriegners in Nagasaki. Yes the USA & others wanted more trade but so did the Japanese want western Technology. The Dutch at the time had built a "steam" factory for them 3 years previous & that was a massive jump forward in Tec that was still expanding! At the time of the Wyoming visit the Japanese had ship building contracts with the British (Using British Technology) & both parties were happy with the trade. The Japanese were also making imitation USA Winchester rifles...... to give away as gifts to western visiters........ to show off their engineering skills. (One of my English relatives was given one in 1864 to take home with him as a sign of friendship by the Japanese Governor of Nagasaki Hatori Sayemonosaki, One should remember the Americian civil war was still on going & there was some tension over the USA blocking cotton exports to British factorys........though not at war (british had an anti slavery fleet of war ships that had blocked slaves going to the USA for years upsetting USA). So there was a lot more to the whole situation than one american ship forcing its self on to Japan. The politics were complex! If anyone seriously wants more it is covered in the book : Two Admirals : Admiral of the Fleet Sir Fairfax Moresby (1786-1877) And His Son John Moresby. Published in 1909 reprints are still availible & the book covers a LOT MORE than the above from british war ship actions first hand in actions in 1800,s. Including of interest today coverage of a western alliance fighting in Crimea with all likely hood of the same result. E-mail Facsimile Publisher Delhi India
Pretty weird that everyone is going on about the heroism of a bunch of invaders. America wouldn't be a tenth of what it is without it's tendency for violent adventurism.
Did you forget that the second time the Americans tried to trade with Japan, and again Japan refused... an hour later the fleet opened fire on Edo killing countless citizens who were unable to defend themselves?!?
This moment changed Japan forever!!! Don't know if you noticed but America has a tendency of literally creating enemies!!!;)
I think it's messed up of the US to force Japan to trade.
Just curious: was it American honor that threatened/bullied Japan if Japan didn't open its ports? Maybe Pearl Harbor was payback for being blackmailed into signing a treaty Japan never wanted. Just ask native Americans how most of their treaties with America turned out.
The japanese nobility were wise as they knew what had happened to china, they also knew the shogunate was incapable of reform.
Japan has a history of messing with our boats. They won the coin toss and elected to receive.
A sneak attack by the Japanese?
Oh No! Say it ain't so! 😱
I am certainly Not a fan of gun boat diplomacy. It was good for both nations in the long run. But it laid the seeds of discontent that finally erupted at Pearl Harbor.. The Battle for the Pacific was a bllod bath that took massive bombing to end.
preemptive sneak attack on merchant vessel..... shameful display!
A preemptive sneak attack on an unarmed vessel fails to sink said vessel. That's the truly shameful part.
"Honor" is debatable. Incompetence and ineffectiveness are inexcusable.
Any reason why episode 61 had 5 thousand ads?
Because youre not using adblock
Yeah that and "Debbie Does Hokkaido" will do it. 🤣
Interesting that the Japanese used items against the US which were
😢 sold or givento them. Same thing appeares to have happened in WW2. How much has the US given or sold to countries lately? Will it be used against the US?
Works both ways. SR71's are mostly titanium, which comes from Russia. Japan sped up their war plans because we embargoed oil exports to them. They got most of the steel for all those weapons, ordinance, "tanks" (lol) and ships from us in the decades before as well.
But they also only modernized and went down the war path because of the pressure America put on them. If it wasn't for American gunboat diplomacy and meddling then Japan probably would have remained far more isolationist under a shogunate rule.
@@Jake12220 there wouldn’t be a boshin war? In 1864, wasn’t choshu and satsuma starting to become stronger than Tokugawa shogunate?
Volume difference between the story and end credit section makes for questionable viewing when the kids are asleep... Enjoyed it though.
3rd, 5 July 2023
@merlinwizard1000
You'll Always be #3 in our hearts! :-)
Pretty sure this episode only exists because you enjoy saying Shimonoseki.
🙋🏽♂️ Millard Fillmore. One of the more forgettable presidents. Yet apparently pulled off one of the most substantial bits of foreign policy since the Mexican War? What brought this on exactly? As I recall, up to this point the United States has not played a role in Asia.
I think that Webster was more the driver than Fillmore.
Not the US government so much, but "Western ships were increasing their presence around Japan due to whaling activities and the trade with China. They were hoping for Japan to become a base for supply or at least a place where shipwrecks could receive assistance."
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bakumatsu#Background
@@TheHistoryGuyChannel So it was his idea to send Commodore Perry?
"Yet apparently pulled off one of the most substantial bits of foreign policy since the Mexican War"
Significant, yes. But I'm not sure that showing up at someone's doorstep with a fleet of warships to demand they trade with you whether they want to or nor is an event worthy of celebration.
@@jliller "Speak softly and carry a big stick." President Theodore Roosevelt
Trade with us or we will bomb your city? They leave this part out in High School American History class.