Rick is, by far, one of, if not the best drummer on TH-cam making videos on the regular. Not only that, but he is a teue professional. He is a percussionist, a musician, an enthusiast. He also is a lover of the history. And he shares all of that with us! For free!!!!! He is amazing!
Thanks for that demo and comparison, I think thats’ the clearest difference I’ve heard of Acrolite to Supraphonic (chrome over alu). Thanks for taking them through different tunings, I met a drummer once that said his Supraphonic was hard to tune, you showed how the characteristics change as you tune up and down, awesome. Now, since they’re all Ludwigs I think they all are more similar than they are different. Your playing is a huge part too and that adds a lot of quality to the sound.
Rick, for me . . . the COB. I thought it sounded better on rimshots. As you said, eight lugs are good enough and easier to tune, although not always an option.
That was a great demonstration...very fine 👍 And thanks for letting us hear the 70's chrome over aluminum...I was really looking forward to that. Mines a weathered, loved, painted old thing but the tonal and dynamic range never stopped...it's as round and flat as you'd like too....tunes easy. Thanks again for that.
The crimped snare bed and smaller diameter of the muffler knob are also unique to the Super Ludwig. I bought a new supraphonic in 1968 and the chrome has peeled dramatically off the shell. Loved the vid. I too, always recommend acrolites.
I laugh at all the beginners who think that cross-grip is better than match-grip, or vice versa. Watching Rick proves that both grips are wonderful. A good drummer is always open to everything.
thanks for this comparison. all of them sound great. i've had my 5x14 supraphonic in rotation since 1983, and i love it, but a friend just gifted me with an old acrolite and it's the bees knees. dry and FAT!!!
The playing, the gear and the content all first rate, thanks Rick for sharing. Around the 33:10 through 33:40 mark your playing sounded somewhat 'Elvin Jonesy' influenced, very nice! 👍
Great video. I have a super sensitive from 1966.but it’s been converted into a super Ora phonic because it hardware was stripped.but really like Dino danell’s snare drum sound so crisp.a acrolite sound’s good just to have. I love love Ludwig drums
The COB for me. I think because it was my very first new snare in the early '80 (a Pearl Jupiter). I still have two COB snares: a vintage Jupiter and a Tama SC145. First love!
cob has so much more dense thick darkness, a compressed wet initial attack, insane how much more I like it compared to the aluminum models. great comparison! ❤
Rick, thanks for another great video. All of them sound great and you play great. For my opinion, the 10 lug Ludalloy has a charm in it's ring and fullness that takes the win. My 2nd choice would be the Acro. Maybe to you in the room the Brass sounds great, but to me it lacks that depth and charm of the first 2. That 's what I hear through my headphones though. Thanks again, very very interesting watching you.
Great skills man! I don’t have the COB, but I do have a ‘67 Supra and a ‘67 Acro. I found the Acro to be drier (snares on) with nice snap. I also have a 6.5x14 ‘70 Supra plus a few others
Oh man. Thought the flaking was my fault. So nice to hear it tuned well! If A is top and F# is bottom,, does G top make bottom E????? So inspiring sir!!
Beautiful playing Rick. Lucky to own a 66 Ludalloy myself. I picked it up for $200 at the San Francisco Drum Shop in about 1999/2000. To me these snare drums are the Fender Strat of snare drums. Those tones are on so many records. One problem I have is that I now live in an extremely humid environment close to the sea and the air is starting to pit the chrome plating of the drum. I regularly wipe the drum down with WD40. Any tips for helping preserve the metal in a humid environment? Edit. Sorry, I see that you later addressed this with the 70s drum. I will have to locate some silica.
Hi Yes, silica in a case will help quite a bit. You can find it in packs online. Just make sure that if you have small children or dogs to keep it far away from them as it is deadly, and they will eat it.
Hmmmm ...I've been wondering if mine ( found in a *_dumpster_* during a church restart cleanout 🤯😂 ) is a super Ludwig... I'll have to see about the weld and that bearing edge curl.... Thanks for the info on the mighty Ludwig snares
Hi, my name is Andrea, I am writing from Italy and I have just purchased my first LUDWIG CLASSIC MAPLE kit (13",16",22"). I would like to combine it with a LUDWIG snare drum. Obviously I immediately thought of the LM 402 14"×6.5".... .I wanted from you, however, an opinion and advice, because, personally, I have never played a snare drum like this before, I have also had my eye on an ACROLITE LM 405k......another " idea",please? Thanks so much... Un saluto dall Italia ✌
Hey Rick, great video! Are you using hazy ambassador or hazy diplomat snare side ? I’m also guessing coated Ambassador ( not diplomat) on the batter side ?
Thanks The heads are listed in the description. They are: "All the drums are using the same heads which are Remo Coated Ambassadors on top, Clear Diplomats (thinnest snare head) on the snare side. In the Drum set portion the 1970's Supra has a Remo Coated Emperor".
The ‘60’s Supraphonics had ‘pitting’ issues as well…64, 65, less so. Definitely correct, Rick…something wrong with the plating process of the aluminum. I also believe these snares should NOT be stored in those terrible plastic Ludwig cases. I store my COB and Supraphonic…all snares on an open shelf. No issues whatsoever. The silica gel is smart if you do use a bag or case.
Great video !!! Mr Dior , I have one L400 Ludaloy from 64-65 I think and I got it with COB original hoops . In my opinion sound great . I am not sure now what I like better :) The “Super Ludwig “or the “Supra 400 “ with COB hoops . Just a thought:) Cheers , and greetings from Bulgaria 🇧🇬
Great Video! Didn't realise I needed a COB Super but here we are. Sounds incredible. It's a real shame the black beauty was not with you because my main question of the back of this is... Can I just buy a BB as a stand in or does the Super COB sound different? If so how?
Hi Search Black Beauty on my site, and you will find a few videos comparing it to other drums. It is very similar to the COB but the shell seems a little thinner.
I have often wondered about the effect of plating on sound, including wind instruments. As a metallurgist, I might tend to favor chrome plating (over brass) for wear and tear. I think Rick mentioned, some of the chrome over Aluminum (Supraphonics) get pitted.
Great video, great playing! One point of feedback…the set up on those mics might be compromising the accuracy of the drum sounds with them spaced like that. The center (COB) snare might be equidistant from the two mics, but the others are probably not, and that is going to create some inherent phase issues for the Ludalloy and the Acrolite. If you set them up in blumline or x-y configuration it will yield a more accurate comparison / representation of what you are hearing in the room.
Hi Thanks for your comment. I am a recording engineer. You can see my studio and credits if you look me up on the web. The mics are in a wide cardioid pattern, and the U89s offer a fantastic wide cardioid response. There are also 2 omni directional U89s off-screen. These are providing the bulk of the sound. An x/y setup is not appropriate here since the stand would be in the way of some of the camera angles. There are no phase issues as I always have a phase meter set up in the control room.
@@rickdiorI was wondering if those mics were U87’s or U89’s. Since we are geeking out over audio engineering stuff, I wonder if you could give me your thoughts. I have a project I am recording and the guitar player is using a Vox AC30. I’m sure you know it is kind of a bright amp, and can sound a bit chimey or clangy. I am not experienced with recording this particular amp, and my first efforts did not yield great results. I know the vintage U87’s in particular have a really smooth, full bodied sound and one of my favorite producers gets great sound on the AC30’s with that mic. The vintage versions are just so dang expensive for one that is in good condition. I’ve heard the U89 can be a great alternative, with a slightly different sound, but still with a similar smoothness to the U87, at a much more friendly price point. I also already own a pair of Coles 4038’s and plan to try one of those combined with a 57 on our next session. The other option I’m considering is a Beyer m160, but want to try the Coles first before I spend the money since I’ve read reports that the Coles can be great on that amp too, and both are ribbons. Do you have any thoughts between those mics in that particular application? Or another mic you think I should consider?
Kinda chuckling - something about a Ludwig snare and speaking of snares - I strongly agree, ya need to have the originals - - yep, they all have slightly different flavors, but they all have that "Ludwig" sound - - Bonham knew it and so does Alex - - no mistaking that "doink", singing sound - I think Alex took it to a higher level with all the modern stuff available to him, but Bonham lead the way. I've had an array of snare drums but most always employed a Ludwig in one form or another - love the slotted coliseum, that f'er can sing but ya gotta get after it and who needs to be miked with that beast? (kidding, sorta)
Great video. Your roll is extraordinary. Could you please do a video on how you developed your roll and your approach to playing rolls for both classical and jazz applications?
Hi Sorry but I have no opinion on that since I don't own one, but I own 7 other Ludwig Supras and Acrolites which are aluminum and they are GREAT drums.
I've always liked wood shells over metal ones and among the metal ones, I prefer the Acrolite because it does NOT sound so metallic. It's hard to believe it started out as the "student's drum".
Hi Tom I have a few videos with one of them. You can see it in in this video th-cam.com/video/nT0IuolpSXU/w-d-xo.html and this one th-cam.com/video/0yaOaBJ--zM/w-d-xo.html where I do compare it to some wood drums.
That COB Super completely blows away that Supraphonic(aluminum) snare. I don’t get why people like that boing/doink ringing of the Ludalloy. Supraphonic sounds lifeless next to that ‘Super’ COB. I had a decent 1964 Supraphonic and it only sound great because it had the rare ‘brass’ hoops. That whole nonsense about ‘The most recorded snare in history’ everyone is quoting when they put an ad up selling their a Supraphonic is incorrect. It’s the early ‘60’s Super Ludwig COB that Joe Morello and Hal Blaine used to record most of the music from the 60’s and 70’s.
Rick is, by far, one of, if not the best drummer on TH-cam making videos on the regular. Not only that, but he is a teue professional. He is a percussionist, a musician, an enthusiast. He also is a lover of the history. And he shares all of that with us! For free!!!!! He is amazing!
I agree.
First snare was an Acrolite, carried that thing all through middle school band, and with every kit i owned after, always my go to.
First drum I ever bought myself too...still one of my favorites to play...👍
The Acrolite is the Les Paul Jr of drums -- made by cutting corners designed as a beginner/hobbyist instrument but actually sounds awesome.
Great comparison! The acro is my go to snare for all my live gigs.
Great demonstration! I've still got my Acrolite, which I bought used with my first drum set in the mid-70's. Love that drum.
Stopped for the snare drums. Stayed for the playing. Woww
Thanks for that demo and comparison, I think thats’ the clearest difference I’ve heard of Acrolite to Supraphonic (chrome over alu). Thanks for taking them through different tunings, I met a drummer once that said his Supraphonic was hard to tune, you showed how the characteristics change as you tune up and down, awesome. Now, since they’re all Ludwigs I think they all are more similar than they are different. Your playing is a huge part too and that adds a lot of quality to the sound.
Amazing instructional video. THANKS!
Rick, for me . . . the COB. I thought it sounded better on rimshots.
As you said, eight lugs are good enough and easier to tune, although not always an option.
That was a great demonstration...very fine 👍
And thanks for letting us hear the 70's chrome over aluminum...I was really looking forward to that.
Mines a weathered, loved, painted old thing but the tonal and dynamic range never stopped...it's as round and flat as you'd like too....tunes easy.
Thanks again for that.
The Acrolite has that unique sound from the body
Could listen for hours ❤🥁🙌
great! love those snares. love ur playing!
The crimped snare bed and smaller diameter of the muffler knob are also unique to the Super Ludwig.
I bought a new supraphonic in 1968 and the chrome has peeled dramatically off the shell.
Loved the vid. I too, always recommend acrolites.
I laugh at all the beginners who think that cross-grip is better than match-grip, or vice versa. Watching Rick proves that both grips are wonderful. A good drummer is always open to everything.
thanks for this comparison. all of them sound great. i've had my 5x14 supraphonic in rotation since 1983, and i love it, but a friend just gifted me with an old acrolite and it's the bees knees. dry and FAT!!!
Right on...👍...with all kinds of range...tonal and dynamic...one of my favorites to play too.
The playing, the gear and the content all first rate, thanks Rick for sharing. Around the 33:10 through 33:40 mark your playing sounded somewhat 'Elvin Jonesy' influenced, very nice! 👍
Great video. I have a super sensitive from 1966.but it’s been converted into a super Ora phonic because it hardware was stripped.but really like Dino danell’s snare drum sound so crisp.a acrolite sound’s good just to have. I love love Ludwig drums
The COB for me. I think because it was my very first new snare in the early '80 (a Pearl Jupiter). I still have two COB snares: a vintage Jupiter and a Tama SC145. First love!
cob has so much more dense thick darkness, a compressed wet initial attack, insane how much more I like it compared to the aluminum models. great comparison! ❤
My ear likes the 60’s acrolite the best followed by the 70’s supraphonic, 60’s super, and 60’s supraphonic
Rick, thanks for another great video. All of them sound great and you play great. For my opinion, the 10 lug Ludalloy has a charm in it's ring and fullness that takes the win. My 2nd choice would be the Acro. Maybe to you in the room the Brass sounds great, but to me it lacks that depth and charm of the first 2. That 's what I hear through my headphones though. Thanks again, very very interesting watching you.
Thanks Steve
Thats why I do these, it's so much fun!
Everybody has their own take which is great. There can never be "only one".
Great skills man! I don’t have the COB, but I do have a ‘67 Supra and a ‘67 Acro. I found the Acro to be drier (snares on) with nice snap. I also have a 6.5x14 ‘70 Supra plus a few others
Oh man. Thought the flaking was my fault. So nice to hear it tuned well! If A is top and F# is bottom,, does G top make bottom E?????
So inspiring sir!!
Rick you so good
Beautiful playing Rick.
Lucky to own a 66 Ludalloy myself. I picked it up for $200 at the San Francisco Drum Shop in about 1999/2000. To me these snare drums are the Fender Strat of snare drums. Those tones are on so many records.
One problem I have is that I now live in an extremely humid environment close to the sea and the air is starting to pit the chrome plating of the drum. I regularly wipe the drum down with WD40. Any tips for helping preserve the metal in a humid environment?
Edit. Sorry, I see that you later addressed this with the 70s drum. I will have to locate some silica.
Hi
Yes, silica in a case will help quite a bit. You can find it in packs online. Just make sure that if you have small children or dogs to keep it far away from them as it is deadly, and they will eat it.
Hmmmm ...I've been wondering if mine ( found in a *_dumpster_* during a church restart cleanout 🤯😂 ) is a super Ludwig... I'll have to see about the weld and that bearing edge curl.... Thanks for the info on the mighty Ludwig snares
Hi, my name is Andrea, I am writing from Italy and I have just purchased my first LUDWIG CLASSIC MAPLE kit (13",16",22"). I would like to combine it with a LUDWIG snare drum. Obviously I immediately thought of the LM 402 14"×6.5".... .I wanted from you, however, an opinion and advice, because, personally, I have never played a snare drum like this before, I have also had my eye on an ACROLITE LM 405k......another " idea",please? Thanks so much...
Un saluto dall Italia ✌
Hi Andrea
Get a Supraphonic 14x 5.
One from the 60s or 70s is good as there are many of them out there, and I prefer the older ones.
Best of luck
Rick
Hey Rick, great video! Are you using hazy ambassador or hazy diplomat snare side ? I’m also guessing coated Ambassador ( not diplomat) on the batter side ?
Thanks
The heads are listed in the description. They are:
"All the drums are using the same heads which are Remo Coated Ambassadors on top, Clear Diplomats (thinnest snare head) on the snare side. In the Drum set portion the 1970's Supra has a Remo Coated Emperor".
You and those snares sound great.
Thank You
The ‘60’s Supraphonics had ‘pitting’ issues as well…64, 65, less so. Definitely correct, Rick…something wrong with the plating process of the aluminum. I also believe these snares should NOT be stored in those terrible plastic Ludwig cases. I store my COB and Supraphonic…all snares on an open shelf. No issues whatsoever. The silica gel is smart if you do use a bag or case.
Great video !!!
Mr Dior , I have one L400 Ludaloy from 64-65 I think and I got it with COB original hoops . In my opinion sound great . I am not sure now what I like better :)
The “Super Ludwig “or the “Supra 400 “ with COB hoops .
Just a thought:)
Cheers , and greetings from Bulgaria 🇧🇬
Great content!
Great Video! Didn't realise I needed a COB Super but here we are. Sounds incredible. It's a real shame the black beauty was not with you because my main question of the back of this is... Can I just buy a BB as a stand in or does the Super COB sound different? If so how?
Hi
Search Black Beauty on my site, and you will find a few videos comparing it to other drums. It is very similar to the COB but the shell seems a little thinner.
I have often wondered about the effect of plating on sound, including wind instruments.
As a metallurgist, I might tend to favor chrome plating (over brass) for wear and tear.
I think Rick mentioned, some of the chrome over Aluminum (Supraphonics) get pitted.
Great video, great playing! One point of feedback…the set up on those mics might be compromising the accuracy of the drum sounds with them spaced like that. The center (COB) snare might be equidistant from the two mics, but the others are probably not, and that is going to create some inherent phase issues for the Ludalloy and the Acrolite. If you set them up in blumline or x-y configuration it will yield a more accurate comparison / representation of what you are hearing in the room.
Hi
Thanks for your comment.
I am a recording engineer.
You can see my studio and credits if you look me up on the web.
The mics are in a wide cardioid pattern, and the U89s offer a fantastic wide cardioid response. There are also 2 omni directional U89s off-screen. These are providing the bulk of the sound. An x/y setup is not appropriate here since the stand would be in the way of some of the camera angles. There are no phase issues as I always have a phase meter set up in the control room.
Meant no offense. Great work!
No offence taken at all. I appreciate the comment and I appreciate you watching.
Thanks
@@rickdiorI was wondering if those mics were U87’s or U89’s. Since we are geeking out over audio engineering stuff, I wonder if you could give me your thoughts. I have a project I am recording and the guitar player is using a Vox AC30. I’m sure you know it is kind of a bright amp, and can sound a bit chimey or clangy. I am not experienced with recording this particular amp, and my first efforts did not yield great results. I know the vintage U87’s in particular have a really smooth, full bodied sound and one of my favorite producers gets great sound on the AC30’s with that mic. The vintage versions are just so dang expensive for one that is in good condition. I’ve heard the U89 can be a great alternative, with a slightly different sound, but still with a similar smoothness to the U87, at a much more friendly price point.
I also already own a pair of Coles 4038’s and plan to try one of those combined with a 57 on our next session.
The other option I’m considering is a Beyer m160, but want to try the Coles first before I spend the money since I’ve read reports that the Coles can be great on that amp too, and both are ribbons.
Do you have any thoughts between those mics in that particular application? Or another mic you think I should consider?
I like the older Royer ribbons, the ones that are not powered with phantom.
The coles are great but too large for that application, in my opinion.
Kinda chuckling - something about a Ludwig snare and speaking of snares - I strongly agree, ya need to have the originals - - yep, they all have slightly different flavors, but they all have that "Ludwig" sound - - Bonham knew it and so does Alex - - no mistaking that "doink", singing sound - I think Alex took it to a higher level with all the modern stuff available to him, but Bonham lead the way. I've had an array of snare drums but most always employed a Ludwig in one form or another - love the slotted coliseum, that f'er can sing but ya gotta get after it and who needs to be miked with that beast? (kidding, sorta)
Great video. Your roll is extraordinary. Could you please do a video on how you developed your roll and your approach to playing rolls for both classical and jazz applications?
Hi
If you search Rolls on my channel, you will find many videos on the topic.
Thanks
Thanks sır...
what are your opinions on the ludwig standard aluminum snare?
Hi
Sorry but I have no opinion on that since I don't own one, but I own 7 other Ludwig Supras and Acrolites which are aluminum and they are GREAT drums.
I've always liked wood shells over metal ones and among the metal ones, I prefer the Acrolite because it does NOT sound so metallic. It's hard to believe it started out as the "student's drum".
Could you compare the COB and Black Beauty with your favorite wood snares?
Hi Tom
I have a few videos with one of them. You can see it in in this video th-cam.com/video/nT0IuolpSXU/w-d-xo.html and this one th-cam.com/video/0yaOaBJ--zM/w-d-xo.html where I do compare it to some wood drums.
Wow ....... gotta go with the Acro.
That COB Super completely blows away that Supraphonic(aluminum) snare. I don’t get why people like that boing/doink ringing of the Ludalloy. Supraphonic sounds lifeless next to that ‘Super’ COB. I had a decent 1964 Supraphonic and it only sound great because it had the rare ‘brass’ hoops. That whole nonsense about ‘The most recorded snare in history’ everyone is quoting when they put an ad up selling their a Supraphonic is incorrect. It’s the early ‘60’s Super Ludwig COB that Joe Morello and Hal Blaine used to record most of the music from the 60’s and 70’s.
Great video.. i like the COB first then the Acrolite.. the ludloy sounds like a wet sock.. compared to the COB and Acro
Ouch!
@@rickdior That's a great sounding "wet sock." Its rich sound and your amazing playing would fit just fine in any recording.