Matt That Foam saber Beats the Full normal hema weapons you can run demos with the general public and have any one walk up try hema. would like to see this at the local fairs.
My son would love this he is 8 and runs around in a scholagladiatoria jumper that Paul from my club gave him before it closed. He is so desperate to practice HEMA the more kit like this that comes out the more chance of junour clubs opening near me so I am all for it
Had somewhat similar ones as a kid, they were great, my parents bought them after we have been fencing with sticks for a long time, but they were a bit heavier than those because they had a plastic core
It's funny. I've run a HEMA type program for kids for years now using boffer-style weapons. Never had a serious injury nor a serious complaint. But I'm in Iceland and Icelanders aren't as hung up on litigation.
It looks similar to foam weapon used to teach toddlers and small children martial arts here in the U.S. Their basic function is to teach form and usage without risk of injury. Great video.
We have a Fiore kids class. We use foam weapons similar to the ones on the histfenc webstore. They are great fun for the adult members as well. They are stiff as hell in the thrust so we tend to limit the kids "sparring". They have a stiff core similar to the ones in the video and are not that floppy.
what John Jakelsky really ought to do is find some industrial design students, The folks who study industrial design love making stuff like this. I bet an industrious Hema instructor could enlist the help of an industrious industrial design student to build an even more efficient prototype of a kid-friendly practice sword.
Thanks for the advice. I tried. plastic injection molds are quite expensive. 3d printing would be the way to go. Right now I'm selling them for 15 euros each.
Home-made boffers (basically exactly what you're showing here) can thrust safely if they are built correctly, and you can weight them to be fairly realistic if you build them from the right material. As someone who LARPed at a fairly agressive LARP (formed by guys who weren't old enough to join the SCA at the time), we actually didn't allow the mass-market latex LARP weapons for a LONG time because they werent thrust safe (as armor is not a requirement). There are a few companies who make them LARP safe (Calamacil in Canada is one, and their weapons are very good), but a home-made boffer like this is arguably better. If you dont use a rattan core, but rather actual PVC pipe (3/4"), you can actually weight them (using duct tape, a stiff piece of rattan or metal rod, you can wad up the duct tape, and push it to the desired location inside the pipe, add weight (i put US pennies in mine) ), and then put another duct-tape plug at the other end of the weight. You can actually get them very close to realistic weight and balance. As a benefit, the 3/4" PVC will also flex on a slash/cut, taking some of the sting out of the blow, where a rattan core will not. Avoid CPVC, though.
My larp group has a very similar design with our swords. According to our larp's regulations, a legal stabbing tip requires at least two inches (50.8mm) of closed cell foam to be at the tip and the core must not be able to be felt at all when compressed. Some players add a bit of open cell foam like couch cushion to give the tip extra padding. I've been stabbed square in the side at full force by a 7 foot polearm and I only got the wind knocked out of me. No bruises to speak of. I'd say that's a pretty sound design.
At our classes we use the Spes Longsword Buffers. They are okay. They don't really move like a longsword and not to safe to thrust with, but their price is nothing compared to a synthetic waster or a feder (espacially if you count the price of the protective equipment too). Great way to get into HEMA.
The school I go to, Academie Duello, has an amazing kids program. We use three weapon masks, lacrosse gear and HEMAshop swords. Cheap, easy to find and you can get a group of 25 kids kitted up and participating in group battles
When I was a kid we made dozens of these soft 'boffer' type swords in all sorts of sizes and after the initial experiments we always tried to make them as safe as possible for thrusting too. Worked well enough to avoid any serious injury.
My kids are frustrated that they can't join a HEMA club, we don't even have a fencing club that takes youngsters locally. So I made a couple of broad swords with plastic curtain rail and camping mats held together with double sided carpet tape and gaffer tape. Not pretty but it does the job...
My only concern would be the lack of edge. Even with our edged, flexible-in-only-one-direction nylon ones we still get lots of people treating swords like lightsabers.
Nice work on light there Matt. Don't know if its intentionnal but i like this setup...
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The problem with thrust and larp weapon is the manufactory process : Those are made of fiber glass stif stick or similar, and then the whole is engulfed in foam. So thrust can make the stick penetrate the front foam and hit the target (an other player...) which is a big problem. And since it is almost impossible to know what is inside while the object is finished, you don't know if there is any kind of protection or not to help prevent that. (only guess work through palpation...) That is why a lot (but not all) larp organisations have forbidden thrust practice.
The first time I ever handled a sword I fell in love. It was as tall as I was and I couldn't lift it, but I begged my mom to buy it for me. She refused due to fearing I would injure myself. I was 3 years old. :) Spent from age 11 to 40 behind a great sword due to that experience. The boffer weapons you use are perfect for kids. Once they get the hang of them and know some techniques, graduate them to shinai. It is still fairly safe and will get them used to the feedback of being struck. The "stick" in the center of the pool noodles should be a piece of carbon fiber, like a golf club shaft, or heavy duty PVC that is reinforced with 3M lot number 895 strapping tape. For teaching kids, just don't treat them like kids. Treat them as you would your peers and you will do fine. Kids respect it when you speak to them like a real person and not a kid.
You started talking about using LARP weapons in HEMA and then sort of trailed off, but I'd love to hear a bit more detail on your opinion. I know they aren't perfect, but the big benefit of not needing to invest in large amounts of (relatively expensive) protective gear could help HEMA be a bit more beginner friendly.
ActionFlex makes some good padded weapons. If you are looking for a stiffer, though safe in the thrust, weapon, you could look at their kuro-obi line. The are much more stiff. The other option is going to Samurai Sports and getting a custom sword. We fight with these at my school going full force with zero issues.
I'd like to see him review the exile padded wasters on this subject. I know Skallagrim has a video on those. I looked into them & my only real issue at a distance(since I haven't been able to get my hands on a couple) is that they're a bit difficult to get & kinda pricey for a padded sword.
Yes! Training weapons: I was meaning to ask about those: What do You think about historical training swords with handguard (english single stick) vs those without handguard (polish single stick, bokken)? I mean: Does lack of handguard on training weapon suggests and/or enforces different use of actual weapon? It seems to me that, lack of handguard could be intentional, forcing trainees to learn how to protect their hands (at the cost of a bruise or broken bone from time to time).
Pool Noodles over a nylon tube works well (PVC shatters too easily). The only problem we had with kids were the younger ones just stood there clobbering each other and giggling. Still fun though. Took about 6 "lessons" before we could actually teach them anything. The gluing was the difficult bit. A lot of glues either ate the pool noodle or just didn't stick well enough. I must say though they were not as good as these ones.
For kids I think it is a good idea to give them some form of torso protection in addition to the fencing mask. Kids can get overeager and wind up hitting with the wrong part, punching, or falling into something by accident. Something like a gambeson might be sufficient.
I was in a longsword tournament recently where judge's batons were pool noodles around PVC, so something very similar to these. I fought with them a bit, and it was a good time. And much safer than steel sparring (the only reason we got to play with the batons was because someone had been injured and was being tended to).
The growth of HEMA and Disc Golf are similar. We have had a focus on kids for the past two decades, and if you watch the Worlds from last year you can clearly see the kids are kicking butt, because they developed while they were children. A case in "point" for you.
You should look into Warlord Sports, which is a company in Texas. They mainly make high-end boffers for games like Amtgard and Dagorhir, but lately they'sve been branching out into ACL and other more steel-based systems/martial arts. I'm sure if there was demand, Brennon and his crew could come up with something.
I made longswords from pvc pipes for my kids. We do drills with protective gear and the bare pvc "blades". For light sparring I slip a pool noodle over the "blade". Because I don't trust their control yet they only oppose me and not each other.
I have the Superdo foam swords and use them with my kids, they are great. However, they are kind of a _katana_ style. Small disc guard, relatively short. I think overall length is 35". What we really want is European longsword style, with longer blade and a proper crossguard.
Hey Matt, have you ever heard of a song by Dreadnaught called "Cruel Wars", it's a song fusing a bunch of really old antiwar folk songs largely set in the war of the Spanish succession I think (or maybe 7-years war)
As someone who is interested in LARP in the US. I'm concerned about the foam used in the practice weapon. Pipe insulation is not a durable material and breaks down very quickly, it is not designed for impact resistance. In the Dagohir/LARP system it is encouraged to use closed cell foam, like a camping sleeping mat. While constructed in strips, the weapons we use are quite safe and durable. With moderate/heavy use a weapon can be expected to last 1-2 years before needing prefabrication.
There are many tipes of pipe insulation. I have training weapons that held out for over a year of almost weekly training, but that foam is more expensive than Plastozote. Pool noodle stuff seems to tear at differences in stiffness (like all foam). In one sword, I used an inner tire of a bicycle to ease this. This seems to work fine.
I agree with you, the pool noodle stuff is generally awful for this application. I'd be interested to see how you applied the innertube of the tire into the structure.
When I practiced Taekwondo and sword alongside that in the same place, we used foam swords similar to this (just shaped more like a katana-style weapon). I don't know how they were made because they had a sort of nylon sleeve over the blade. The light foam guards sucked and some of the more senior people in the sword class had already gone through their first, probably inside a year or two, I think. Mine started to get wimpy after a few months of hard use. Granted, I (mid teens at the time) did whack people hard enough that some younger ones (9-13-ish?) complained enough for me to get told off. That was funny, of course, but I took it easier on them after that--a bit. Heh.
You missed one important issue to discuss. How long is the inner stick? Where does it end? Apparently it cannot end at the very tip, or it would not be safe for thrusting. But how far from the end should it end to maintain enough stiffness, while still being thrust safe?
Coronavirus- I’m in charge of teaching my son in Wichita, KS, USA, and I’m running him through Fiore’s guards. Neither of us have a background in sword fighting (he’s eight, so barring a secret and probably super natural life, he really shouldn’t have more experience than me). I’d LOVE to train him with blunt steel. When I was a kid, I (inadvisably) fought my friends with aluminum baseball bats (cute they trailer park GIFS). Metal is special. Any ideas for a company who will sell a blunt long sword type steel but proportioned for an eight year old?
I teach kids in my club and we use nylons with masks and it works pretty fine for us. We also have some larp Calimacil longswords that can allow the kids to be a little more free without it hurting as much as the nylon does. they are not latex and are fairly safe with practically no care for the material needed. The problems I see with both our options is the size. The smallest of our kids really needs a scaled down version. We've tried using arming swords but the proportions are wrong and with a regular nylon it's so large on the student that it affects technique badly. Basically it's too long for longsword technique to work smoothly and it's also a bit too heavy for the smallest students. However I do really like working with nylon in our class and would prefer a child size of that, with the right proportions and balance. Just my thoughts
The only downside I see with it is the round handle, which does not give any sense of the edge alignment. When I make boffer training weapons myself, I put a stick into a polypropylene pipe, remove some material from two sides on the handle and fix everything with hot glue. More labour-intensive, but it gives you a flat handle. The rest is the same: pipe insulation + transparent tape (I use a layer of transparent tape, then a layer of "silver" duct tape and another layer of transparent tape on top. Transparent for strength, silver for colour.
At Digladior, the club I'm visiting, there is a kids' class and our instructors constructed similiar weapons. And we must admit, that sparring with them is popular even amongst us adult practitioners, partially because we don't need almost any protection, and also its a great fun :D facebook.com/digladior.krouzek/
Těžko posoudit, když jsem jinam nechodil ;-) Ne - vážně, myslím si že učí kvalitně a všestranně. Nezačínají sice s výukou rovnou od majstrhawů, ale to je dobře - základy především. Instruktoři jsou fajn. Jsou upřímní, otevření, je s nimi zábava, ale vědí, jak řádně udeřit.
Absolutely was thinking 1/2" pvc pipe filled with some sort of Silicone covered with a salvaged yoga mat and pool noodle for the head hanging off the end a bit to allow safe thrusting, I don't think wood is the best idea I had an experience where it snapped off and there was splinters tho I chose a very budget wood, Cant wait to teach my son some stuff :)
I am 15 and I have been fencing for a year now and I am looking for a HEMA club. But I have find a pattern: Why is the age limit for HEMA often higher then sportingfencing? (My sportfencing-club has an age limit of 14 and the lowest HEMA-club limit I find was 16. And the Club papá is in has a limit of 18.)
Liability. If a young teenager or child gets hurt during HEMA, that can be a massive problem for the club. On the other hand, sport fencing is very safe, so the same liability risks are not present.
Also since HEMA is not an officially recognised sport yet, a HEMA trainer cannot become an instructor with official state certification and might face liability for training underage people illegally. And will face ir for sure if you are injured during a training.
You should try out a jugger pompfen... It's the only clubb even close to fencing where i live... And they are made for thrusting and slashing att pepole in only shorts and T-shirt :)
Certainly of the many "commercially"-made LARP weapons available, there aren't really any thrust-safe ("safer", I guess) weapons. People always talk about Calamicil, but they're stiff as a board, and not much different to other brands. In the last couple of years, though, various makers in the UK including Dave Oliver, Graham Hedley, Darren Stocker and others have been making thrusting swords with collapsible tips made of a softer foam and reinforced with more than just a piece of kevlar tape over the core. This is the same technology that's been used with spears in some UK LARP (including Dumnonni Chronicles) for at least a decade, and is rapidly catching on, not least because if you meet a bunch of Romans with thrusting gladii, or a Celtic champion with a long, thrust-safe sword, you're at a disadvantage against them if you can only slash away at them! I am almost certain that Mark Gilbert has come across them, and maybe he'll disagree with me, but there are certainly much better thrust weapons in LARP than there were 10, or even 5 years ago. Cheers Matt!
Thanks for that - yes Mark has told me about these developments. I think the main issue remains eyes. Until people wear eye protection, it doesn't really matter how soft the end is, if it can still poke someone in the eyeball.
What sort of thing ate they using for HMB soft? From the looks of it they don't allow thrusting but it's another angle in the HEMA/LARP/FENCING/HMB etv polygon to have a look at especially as they seem to have a real drive for junior development at the moment.
Majestik Kaos Check The HEMA Alliance website, you can see if there any clubs near you and then you can learn from there if they'll teach someone your age
Matt, most LARP Weapons are safe to stab in the sense that they will not injure. Most are designed to rather break in case of an accidental stab then injure. There are trust-save durable LARP Weapons, they are just not made very often, because there is not a lot of demand, as stabbing is forbidden at most LARP events. Additionally high quality LARP Weapons are weighted and balanced by the addition of lead weights to more closely resemble real weapon characteristics. You could contact LARP Weapon makers who specialize in custom weapons, and talk with them about what characteristics a training weapon for kids or beginning adults should have and design a prototype with them. I would gladly recommend several.
Ha we've used pool noodle swords for kids, except our usual is a group of them wailing on us in armour at local shows and fairs as part of our "fight the knight" kids challenge and let me tell you they don't stop after you've played dead on the ground😂
Kralko Velky Toys 'R Us is going out of business...closing all its stores. (I used to work there). Ok, Matt you can make a killing getting into the toy market !!!
I always recommend LARP, swords. Not only because they come in all shapes you can think of, also because they are readily available and extremely save. Also they look way cooler for kids. In my neighbourhood a couple of kids got LARP swords as a Christmas gift. Since we are fighting every week in a local park, parents do sometimes ask us if there are save swords for kids available. Looks like our group did start a new trend in our neighbourhood :D
Bram Verbeek Only if you have cheap ones. Usually LARP swords in the 60+ Euro range have a Kevlar reinforced tip and the more expensive ones in the 100+ range have the complete core surrounded with Kevlar, thus making them way more save for medium speed stabbing.
An 8mm/10mm/12mm core will still tear through the foam. Maybe not in the first ten stabs, but bit by bit the foam will deteriorate. But maybe my knowledge is outdated. I thought surrounding the core with kevlar was just to prevent splinters if a weapon would manage to break.
Looks more like a pool noodle than pipe insulation to me - I know, because I built a longsword-simulator out of pool noodle and electro installation pipe.
Isn't 500 grams (which is if I heard and understood it correctly the weight of this kids-training saber) about the weight of the smallsword? Now I would like to see you sparring with these against your wife or your daughter, Matt.
They're around 220 grams. 550 grams is the weight of Italian training sabers from the time of Barbasetti. A bit too heavy for kids, and exactly the weight of the Spes heavy saber.
Really good idea. We've used the nerf "swords" to teach kids b4 but they do have some issues. We do need to pass on the art to the next gens or it'll disappear.
If you want a toughness test, send one to Skall to chop down a tree with.
He could do it too.
Because Matt can't hit a tree with a sword, totally worth the 3000 mile postage.
Man is one day gonna chop one down with a fucking spoon
I was rather hoping for some footage of Lily sparring.
"It doesn't hurt..."
*LARGE RED WELT APPEARS*
hahahaha
Sir Better red than purple
It's only a flesh wound.
"Hey, folks, Mikhail Gorbachev here, Soviet Gladiatoria."
tis but a scrath
Matt That Foam saber Beats the Full normal hema weapons you can run demos with the general public and have any one walk up try hema.
would like to see this at the local fairs.
My son would love this he is 8 and runs around in a scholagladiatoria jumper that Paul from my club gave him before it closed. He is so desperate to practice HEMA the more kit like this that comes out the more chance of junour clubs opening near me so I am all for it
Sean Kavanagh which would you recommend. Longsword or sabre? For kids I mean.
My favourite homebrew practice weapon is still the light infantry colander showcased last year.
Had somewhat similar ones as a kid, they were great, my parents bought them after we have been fencing with sticks for a long time, but they were a bit heavier than those because they had a plastic core
Matt, we need to see that video where you and lucy fight with those foam swords.
😁
naked
I want to see that Gif.
i.gyazo.com/a3b2f11b64c2a7f0839a654dc31688ff.mp4
Hopefully TH-cam doesnt block it!
LMAO dude, that almost made me spit my coffee everywhere
RpgDestiny One where he hits himself with the blue one more and talks less?
Matt was probably referring to this one.
media.giphy.com/media/l0NwMgQBMpUTIDwOY/giphy.gif
lmao
It's funny. I've run a HEMA type program for kids for years now using boffer-style weapons. Never had a serious injury nor a serious complaint. But I'm in Iceland and Icelanders aren't as hung up on litigation.
that's a great evolution to what we would use back 15-20 years ago for sword classes at a now defunct living history program in southern california.
It looks similar to foam weapon used to teach toddlers and small children martial arts here in the U.S. Their basic function is to teach form and usage without risk of injury. Great video.
I have swords from Amtgard made from camp pads that have a safe tip, and flat to practice edge alignment.
We have a Fiore kids class. We use foam weapons similar to the ones on the histfenc webstore. They are great fun for the adult members as well. They are stiff as hell in the thrust so we tend to limit the kids "sparring". They have a stiff core similar to the ones in the video and are not that floppy.
what John Jakelsky really ought to do is find some industrial design students, The folks who study industrial design love making stuff like this.
I bet an industrious Hema instructor could enlist the help of an industrious industrial design student to build an even more efficient prototype of a kid-friendly practice sword.
Thanks for the advice. I tried. plastic injection molds are quite expensive. 3d printing would be the way to go. Right now I'm selling them for 15 euros each.
@@esgrimaxativa5175 I really hate facebook; is there a way I can buy them directly or a web site?
Home-made boffers (basically exactly what you're showing here) can thrust safely if they are built correctly, and you can weight them to be fairly realistic if you build them from the right material.
As someone who LARPed at a fairly agressive LARP (formed by guys who weren't old enough to join the SCA at the time), we actually didn't allow the mass-market latex LARP weapons for a LONG time because they werent thrust safe (as armor is not a requirement). There are a few companies who make them LARP safe (Calamacil in Canada is one, and their weapons are very good), but a home-made boffer like this is arguably better.
If you dont use a rattan core, but rather actual PVC pipe (3/4"), you can actually weight them (using duct tape, a stiff piece of rattan or metal rod, you can wad up the duct tape, and push it to the desired location inside the pipe, add weight (i put US pennies in mine) ), and then put another duct-tape plug at the other end of the weight. You can actually get them very close to realistic weight and balance. As a benefit, the 3/4" PVC will also flex on a slash/cut, taking some of the sting out of the blow, where a rattan core will not. Avoid CPVC, though.
My larp group has a very similar design with our swords.
According to our larp's regulations, a legal stabbing tip requires at least two inches (50.8mm) of closed cell foam to be at the tip and the core must not be able to be felt at all when compressed. Some players add a bit of open cell foam like couch cushion to give the tip extra padding.
I've been stabbed square in the side at full force by a 7 foot polearm and I only got the wind knocked out of me. No bruises to speak of. I'd say that's a pretty sound design.
At our classes we use the Spes Longsword Buffers. They are okay. They don't really move like a longsword and not to safe to thrust with, but their price is nothing compared to a synthetic waster or a feder (espacially if you count the price of the protective equipment too). Great way to get into HEMA.
The school I go to, Academie Duello, has an amazing kids program. We use three weapon masks, lacrosse gear and HEMAshop swords. Cheap, easy to find and you can get a group of 25 kids kitted up and participating in group battles
When I was a kid we made dozens of these soft 'boffer' type swords in all sorts of sizes and after the initial experiments we always tried to make them as safe as possible for thrusting too. Worked well enough to avoid any serious injury.
My kids are frustrated that they can't join a HEMA club, we don't even have a fencing club that takes youngsters locally. So I made a couple of broad swords with plastic curtain rail and camping mats held together with double sided carpet tape and gaffer tape. Not pretty but it does the job...
My only concern would be the lack of edge. Even with our edged, flexible-in-only-one-direction nylon ones we still get lots of people treating swords like lightsabers.
Nice work on light there Matt. Don't know if its intentionnal but i like this setup...
The problem with thrust and larp weapon is the manufactory process : Those are made of fiber glass stif stick or similar, and then the whole is engulfed in foam. So thrust can make the stick penetrate the front foam and hit the target (an other player...) which is a big problem.
And since it is almost impossible to know what is inside while the object is finished, you don't know if there is any kind of protection or not to help prevent that. (only guess work through palpation...)
That is why a lot (but not all) larp organisations have forbidden thrust practice.
The first time I ever handled a sword I fell in love. It was as tall as I was and I couldn't lift it, but I begged my mom to buy it for me. She refused due to fearing I would injure myself.
I was 3 years old. :)
Spent from age 11 to 40 behind a great sword due to that experience.
The boffer weapons you use are perfect for kids. Once they get the hang of them and know some techniques, graduate them to shinai. It is still fairly safe and will get them used to the feedback of being struck.
The "stick" in the center of the pool noodles should be a piece of carbon fiber, like a golf club shaft, or heavy duty PVC that is reinforced with 3M lot number 895 strapping tape.
For teaching kids, just don't treat them like kids. Treat them as you would your peers and you will do fine. Kids respect it when you speak to them like a real person and not a kid.
My friends and I just started out with smacking the crap out of each other with broken hockey sticks, and slowly things evolved from there.
Yep, and we paired them with metal garbage can lids as shields.
You started talking about using LARP weapons in HEMA and then sort of trailed off, but I'd love to hear a bit more detail on your opinion. I know they aren't perfect, but the big benefit of not needing to invest in large amounts of (relatively expensive) protective gear could help HEMA be a bit more beginner friendly.
I used some very similar to these to play with my little brother, and it was super fun :)
ActionFlex makes some good padded weapons. If you are looking for a stiffer, though safe in the thrust, weapon, you could look at their kuro-obi line. The are much more stiff. The other option is going to Samurai Sports and getting a custom sword. We fight with these at my school going full force with zero issues.
I'd like to see him review the exile padded wasters on this subject. I know Skallagrim has a video on those. I looked into them & my only real issue at a distance(since I haven't been able to get my hands on a couple) is that they're a bit difficult to get & kinda pricey for a padded sword.
Yes! Training weapons:
I was meaning to ask about those:
What do You think about historical training swords with handguard (english single stick) vs those without handguard (polish single stick, bokken)? I mean: Does lack of handguard on training weapon suggests and/or enforces different use of actual weapon?
It seems to me that, lack of handguard could be intentional, forcing trainees to learn how to protect their hands (at the cost of a bruise or broken bone from time to time).
Still waiting on a fight review video for Aletriste.
did this guy play Jugger maby?^^
Matt prefers the plastic on the blade for slippy slidedy contact. He does not want you to ignore the thrusts.
one of the first time in a wile that mat is not trying to say something dirty.
Pool Noodles over a nylon tube works well (PVC shatters too easily). The only problem we had with kids were the younger ones just stood there clobbering each other and giggling. Still fun though. Took about 6 "lessons" before we could actually teach them anything. The gluing was the difficult bit. A lot of glues either ate the pool noodle or just didn't stick well enough. I must say though they were not as good as these ones.
Could replace that tape with some great activated shrink wrap maybe?
For kids I think it is a good idea to give them some form of torso protection in addition to the fencing mask. Kids can get overeager and wind up hitting with the wrong part, punching, or falling into something by accident. Something like a gambeson might be sufficient.
I was in a longsword tournament recently where judge's batons were pool noodles around PVC, so something very similar to these. I fought with them a bit, and it was a good time. And much safer than steel sparring (the only reason we got to play with the batons was because someone had been injured and was being tended to).
There are larp weapons that are made for thrusting. Check out calimacil.
The growth of HEMA and Disc Golf are similar. We have had a focus on kids for the past two decades, and if you watch the Worlds from last year you can clearly see the kids are kicking butt, because they developed while they were children. A case in "point" for you.
You should look into Warlord Sports, which is a company in Texas. They mainly make high-end boffers for games like Amtgard and Dagorhir, but lately they'sve been branching out into ACL and other more steel-based systems/martial arts. I'm sure if there was demand, Brennon and his crew could come up with something.
I make something similar as well
Theyre made from pvc and camp pad
I make them in both percussion and blades so its cool seeing this
I think it could be possible to make those little less thick with foam sheet meant for insulating pipes.
facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=665881116943430&set=pb.100005646437487.-2207520000.1521142165.&type=3&theater
Due to the thickness, it can't fit into an eye socket. It is part of the safety.
I made longswords from pvc pipes for my kids. We do drills with protective gear and the bare pvc "blades". For light sparring I slip a pool noodle over the "blade". Because I don't trust their control yet they only oppose me and not each other.
I have the Superdo foam swords and use them with my kids, they are great. However, they are kind of a _katana_ style. Small disc guard, relatively short. I think overall length is 35". What we really want is European longsword style, with longer blade and a proper crossguard.
I would look at go now padded longsword or Purple Heart armory padded longsword, for kids I would go with the “light version”
Hey Matt, have you ever heard of a song by Dreadnaught called "Cruel Wars", it's a song fusing a bunch of really old antiwar folk songs largely set in the war of the Spanish succession I think (or maybe 7-years war)
Link to .gif of Matt hitting himself with foam sword?
Edit: the part where he talks less and hits himself more, preferably. Timestamp: 5:46 and on.
As someone who is interested in LARP in the US. I'm concerned about the foam used in the practice weapon. Pipe insulation is not a durable material and breaks down very quickly, it is not designed for impact resistance. In the Dagohir/LARP system it is encouraged to use closed cell foam, like a camping sleeping mat. While constructed in strips, the weapons we use are quite safe and durable. With moderate/heavy use a weapon can be expected to last 1-2 years before needing prefabrication.
There are many tipes of pipe insulation. I have training weapons that held out for over a year of almost weekly training, but that foam is more expensive than Plastozote. Pool noodle stuff seems to tear at differences in stiffness (like all foam). In one sword, I used an inner tire of a bicycle to ease this. This seems to work fine.
I agree with you, the pool noodle stuff is generally awful for this application. I'd be interested to see how you applied the innertube of the tire into the structure.
I keep meaning to make photos of the process and forgetting
@@bramverbeek7109 I am interested too. When you get it up let us know. :)
you can add a bitof weight by wrapping the blade in duct tape we used swords like that in amtgard
When I practiced Taekwondo and sword alongside that in the same place, we used foam swords similar to this (just shaped more like a katana-style weapon). I don't know how they were made because they had a sort of nylon sleeve over the blade. The light foam guards sucked and some of the more senior people in the sword class had already gone through their first, probably inside a year or two, I think. Mine started to get wimpy after a few months of hard use. Granted, I (mid teens at the time) did whack people hard enough that some younger ones (9-13-ish?) complained enough for me to get told off. That was funny, of course, but I took it easier on them after that--a bit. Heh.
You missed one important issue to discuss. How long is the inner stick? Where does it end? Apparently it cannot end at the very tip, or it would not be safe for thrusting. But how far from the end should it end to maintain enough stiffness, while still being thrust safe?
Make boffers that are used in dagorhir or belegarth. They use padding for the stap tip.
I can't wait to get this kind of stuff when I actually have kids
I think that a good development of this is to have a flat blade, and maybe a way to curve it
Hey Matt you havn't done a fight review in ages: Why not the sabre duel from the movie 'Deluge'?
Wait, there was a foam battle between you and Lucy and we have no footage of it?????
I am a physical education teacher. Where can I buy these foam weapons?
I was wondering what material the guard is made of.
Coronavirus- I’m in charge of teaching my son in Wichita, KS, USA, and I’m running him through Fiore’s guards. Neither of us have a background in sword fighting (he’s eight, so barring a secret and probably super natural life, he really shouldn’t have more experience than me). I’d LOVE to train him with blunt steel. When I was a kid, I (inadvisably) fought my friends with aluminum baseball bats (cute they trailer park GIFS). Metal is special. Any ideas for a company who will sell a blunt long sword type steel but proportioned for an eight year old?
I teach kids in my club and we use nylons with masks and it works pretty fine for us. We also have some larp Calimacil longswords that can allow the kids to be a little more free without it hurting as much as the nylon does.
they are not latex and are fairly safe with practically no care for the material needed. The problems I see with both our options is the size. The smallest of our kids really needs a scaled down version. We've tried using arming swords but the proportions are wrong and with a regular nylon it's so large on the student that it affects technique badly. Basically it's too long for longsword technique to work smoothly and it's also a bit too heavy for the smallest students.
However I do really like working with nylon in our class and would prefer a child size of that, with the right proportions and balance.
Just my thoughts
The guard looks like it is from the padded swords sold by the knight shop?
No, I make them myself.
The only downside I see with it is the round handle, which does not give any sense of the edge alignment. When I make boffer training weapons myself, I put a stick into a polypropylene pipe, remove some material from two sides on the handle and fix everything with hot glue. More labour-intensive, but it gives you a flat handle. The rest is the same: pipe insulation + transparent tape (I use a layer of transparent tape, then a layer of "silver" duct tape and another layer of transparent tape on top. Transparent for strength, silver for colour.
At Digladior, the club I'm visiting, there is a kids' class and our instructors constructed similiar weapons. And we must admit, that sparring with them is popular even amongst us adult practitioners, partially because we don't need almost any protection, and also its a great fun :D
facebook.com/digladior.krouzek/
Jaký to je v Digladioru? Jsem přemejšlel, že bych tam někdy výhledově začal chodit, ale teďka stejně nemam moc času
Těžko posoudit, když jsem jinam nechodil ;-) Ne - vážně, myslím si že učí kvalitně a všestranně. Nezačínají sice s výukou rovnou od majstrhawů, ale to je dobře - základy především. Instruktoři jsou fajn. Jsou upřímní, otevření, je s nimi zábava, ale vědí, jak řádně udeřit.
Where can one buy these foam sabers? Best regards
I'm looking forward to the gifs.
Also, light sabres are not dangerous? Understood. :P
Edge alignment?
Been working on a spear like this with pool noodels and a long sticks. they work good lol
Mr. S dimensions of stick? Do you think 1/2 inch pvc pipe would be suitable? : )
Absolutely was thinking 1/2" pvc pipe filled with some sort of Silicone covered with a salvaged yoga mat and pool noodle for the head hanging off the end a bit to allow safe thrusting, I don't think wood is the best idea I had an experience where it snapped off and there was splinters tho I chose a very budget wood, Cant wait to teach my son some stuff :)
I am 15 and I have been fencing for a year now and I am looking for a HEMA club. But I have find a pattern: Why is the age limit for HEMA often higher then sportingfencing? (My sportfencing-club has an age limit of 14 and the lowest HEMA-club limit I find was 16. And the Club papá is in has a limit of 18.)
Liability. If a young teenager or child gets hurt during HEMA, that can be a massive problem for the club. On the other hand, sport fencing is very safe, so the same liability risks are not present.
Also since HEMA is not an officially recognised sport yet, a HEMA trainer cannot become an instructor with official state certification and might face liability for training underage people illegally. And will face ir for sure if you are injured during a training.
What do you think of softcombat ??
IS It a good idea to start any fencing ?
Reminds me of the Nerf fencing set I had in the '80's.
I see an interesting banner behind you. What is it for?
You should try out a jugger pompfen... It's the only clubb even close to fencing where i live... And they are made for thrusting and slashing att pepole in only shorts and T-shirt :)
New camera?
Now we can guess what a family discussion looks like in the Eastons' house! ;)
So guys, where's the GIF?
Certainly of the many "commercially"-made LARP weapons available, there aren't really any thrust-safe ("safer", I guess) weapons. People always talk about Calamicil, but they're stiff as a board, and not much different to other brands. In the last couple of years, though, various makers in the UK including Dave Oliver, Graham Hedley, Darren Stocker and others have been making thrusting swords with collapsible tips made of a softer foam and reinforced with more than just a piece of kevlar tape over the core.
This is the same technology that's been used with spears in some UK LARP (including Dumnonni Chronicles) for at least a decade, and is rapidly catching on, not least because if you meet a bunch of Romans with thrusting gladii, or a Celtic champion with a long, thrust-safe sword, you're at a disadvantage against them if you can only slash away at them!
I am almost certain that Mark Gilbert has come across them, and maybe he'll disagree with me, but there are certainly much better thrust weapons in LARP than there were 10, or even 5 years ago. Cheers Matt!
Thanks for that - yes Mark has told me about these developments. I think the main issue remains eyes. Until people wear eye protection, it doesn't really matter how soft the end is, if it can still poke someone in the eyeball.
Which possibly is the idea of the large diameter of these, they can't fit in your eye socket.
Here in Mexico most HEMA clubs doesn't accept kids, the only one I know that accept them gives them some sort of pvc pipes covered with foam.
Considering they're intended for children the lighter weight seems more of a feature than a bug.
What sort of thing ate they using for HMB soft? From the looks of it they don't allow thrusting but it's another angle in the HEMA/LARP/FENCING/HMB etv polygon to have a look at especially as they seem to have a real drive for junior development at the moment.
Surely there’s some toy foam swords that would be perfect for it that don’t have the rod in them that LARP ones do
Without some type of rod they end up being too flexible to practice any sort of proper technique.
I'm 14 in the U.S. near Seattle, I want to learn longsword dagger and maybe glima (glema?). Do you think any place would accept me?
Majestik Kaos Check The HEMA Alliance website, you can see if there any clubs near you and then you can learn from there if they'll teach someone your age
When i was young, we used PVC pipe as the frame and duct tape as the wrap. The great thing is once you finallt destroy one, its maybe $5 to remake
is it wootz?
Matt, most LARP Weapons are safe to stab in the sense that they will not injure.
Most are designed to rather break in case of an accidental stab then injure.
There are trust-save durable LARP Weapons, they are just not made very often, because there is not a lot of demand, as stabbing is forbidden at most LARP events.
Additionally high quality LARP Weapons are weighted and balanced by the addition of lead weights to more closely resemble real weapon characteristics.
You could contact LARP Weapon makers who specialize in custom weapons, and talk with them about what characteristics a training weapon for kids or beginning adults should have and design a prototype with them.
I would gladly recommend several.
5:44 Another? Wait, what did I miss?
th-cam.com/video/xwX2kkeMEOk/w-d-xo.html&t=10s
Gif version: thumbs.gfycat.com/AcademicVioletAyeaye-size_restricted.gif
That's just great! XD
Ha we've used pool noodle swords for kids, except our usual is a group of them wailing on us in armour at local shows and fairs as part of our "fight the knight" kids challenge and let me tell you they don't stop after you've played dead on the ground😂
Interesting, never knew that. I suppose kids are generally allowed to practice kendo because it doesn't involve thrusting.
Matt Easton is now a toy channel 🤔🤔🤔
Spiderman&Elsa by Matt Easton
Kralko Velky Toys 'R Us is going out of business...closing all its stores. (I used to work there). Ok, Matt you can make a killing getting into the toy market !!!
Kayla Gray Yes...Yes they are.
Matt Easton is a Matt Easton channel... Plus cat, acid and context
Adults are still the same thing as kids... only the toys just got bigger and or deadlier.
as a 19 year old this is very relevant for me
I always recommend LARP, swords. Not only because they come in all shapes you can think of, also because they are readily available and extremely save. Also they look way cooler for kids. In my neighbourhood a couple of kids got LARP swords as a Christmas gift. Since we are fighting every week in a local park, parents do sometimes ask us if there are save swords for kids available.
Looks like our group did start a new trend in our neighbourhood :D
They are generally not stab-safe. I really need to throw away more than 2/3 of any historic method to be safe with LARP swords and no protection.
Bram Verbeek Only if you have cheap ones. Usually LARP swords in the 60+ Euro range have a Kevlar reinforced tip and the more expensive ones in the 100+ range have the complete core surrounded with Kevlar, thus making them way more save for medium speed stabbing.
An 8mm/10mm/12mm core will still tear through the foam. Maybe not in the first ten stabs, but bit by bit the foam will deteriorate. But maybe my knowledge is outdated. I thought surrounding the core with kevlar was just to prevent splinters if a weapon would manage to break.
Looking for an under 16s club/school in Birmingham
Padded pommels of mass destruction?
That thumbnail seems oddly awkward.
HEMA: The Saints Row simulator we've all needed.
Looks more like a pool noodle than pipe insulation to me - I know, because I built a longsword-simulator out of pool noodle and electro installation pipe.
They should mark the edges so they learn edgeagliment
5:40 TAP Easton!
Isn't 500 grams (which is if I heard and understood it correctly the weight of this kids-training saber) about the weight of the smallsword?
Now I would like to see you sparring with these against your wife or your daughter, Matt.
They're around 220 grams. 550 grams is the weight of Italian training sabers from the time of Barbasetti. A bit too heavy for kids, and exactly the weight of the Spes heavy saber.
Really good idea. We've used the nerf "swords" to teach kids b4 but they do have some issues. We do need to pass on the art to the next gens or it'll disappear.
Latex boffer weapons are great, but ya, no thrusting is an issue and most of them are poorly balanced. Still great and i like the few i have.
I make my own, but you can open up the grips and put some lead there. It would also cure them of the penchant for utterly round grips.