Great video! I was waiting for the denouement to be Ballard’s Crystal World! If you’ve seen the film adaptation of Annihilation, the ending gives more than a nod to the Ballard Classic. A more recent addition to the zone story would be the Strugatskys’ latterly published The Doomed City. Great video, punchy and concise.
The War against the Chtorr. Terrifying thought of a malevolent alien invasion of earth, systematically turning parts of the planet into the ecosystem of a different world. It's speculated that because the Chtorrians see in infra red, that they come from a world much older and with harsher evolutionary environment than earth, with all the Darwinian advantages it provides the flora and fauna. After book 3, I couldn't continue further, as the writing had gotten profoundly darker. Also the protagonist had gotten profoundly more and more objectionable as the series continued. It's a seminal work...though probably not for most of you. 😮😳😵 Oh, and if you're reminded of the older, and I guess classic "Color out of Space" by Lovecraft, you're not alone. Chtorr Zones reminds me of the Blasted Heath...but WORSE! 🤯🤯🤯
Love this!!!! What a fun list! Probably my favorite of your vids so far❤ You gotta add saturation point and walk to aldebaran to this list! Both are novellas…
@@Scottlp2 I talk about this in my recent review of the novel, but I can't really compare the two. The movie has similar themes to the novel, but isn't the same story. I think both are absolutely incredible and worth a watch / read.
Awesome video! I wasn't aware that this is one of my favourite SF themes but it seems to be. Most of these books are on my TBR or I've already read. I really like a good zone story.
As always a great video! Was a bit surprised that Solaris didn't pop up. I'm always amused when the Vinge books appear though - in a lot of ways Vernor did write a classic that is on par with the other top tier scifi books of all time. Have a good week, Jon.
@@SciFiScavenger I have both the Tarkovsky and the Clooney version in my streaming account. I found the older version basically unwatchable. 🙄 Watch the Clooney version...😂🤣😂🤣 i know, CLOONEY?! But the long still shots in the older, supposedly classic Tarkovsky movie did not please me. 🙄😝. There is also a Soviet production 1968 television play that sounds like it's faithful to the book. It's on TH-cam. 🧐😉
There is a TV mini series for The City & The City that is pretty good - (I stumbled across it on Amazon) It might be confusing if you haven't read the book. Inspector Borlú wasn't quite what I'd pictured, but it was still cool to get a visual representation of the Cities. The music was good, too.
Great idea for a video Jon. I've got a lot of these books, but I will buy the Beckett book so I can get it signed when he comes to my SF group next month. According to the Sf commentariat the concept of "The Zone" originates in Thomas Pynchon's "Gravity's Rainbow" which is not strictly SF, but definitely influenced many Sf writers.
Yes I was aware of the Pynchon book but didn't know enough/couldn't find enough about it. Fab that you get to meet CB, I'm expecting to chat to him for the channel next week, video to follow. Thanks for watching 👀!
I read Rogue Moon some years back - the book was written in 1961 - and it is an excellent and gripping tale and it is worth noting that Budrys invented the transporter years before Star Trek :-). I read Roadside Picnic more recently and am a big admirer of the Strugatsky brothers. But 'A Fire Upon the Deep' is one of the more amazing books I've read from a conceptual level. Definitely stretches your brain muscles.
Several possible candidates for the Zone might be Farewell Horizontal by KW Jeter, Alistair Reynolds Diamond Dogs, Chaga by Ian MacDonald and Engine Summer by John Crowley.
That reminds me, I should have a copy of Farewell Horizontal coming to me from the US. I think the seagulls are bringing it, it's been 6 weeks already! Thanks for the other tips, I have Chaga but not the other one. Thanks for watching 👀!
Times Eye by Clarke and Baxter, and Brain Wave by Anderson might have been worth a shout. The Man who would be Kling is a most excellent title. Keep up the good work! Would love your thoughts on White Queen by Jones (which hits this criteria too). I struggled through it but feel like it should have been something I was more fond of... And i also have the sequel sitting on my shelf, which I'm currently nowhere near opening at the moment.
Loved Annihilation. Darwinia, I nearly picked it up yesterday it looks really good. After this, I might read it next :) Involution Ocean by Bruce Sterling might belong on this list, for it's wild (and unlikely) world building and alien zoology. The Pollinators of Eden probably deserves a look in too, again for it's wild biology. Thanks for another fun video, in which I saw yet more things to add to my 'to-read' list :)
I did think about Involution Ocean but decided that it didn't pass muster as a zone. I do agree with you on the biology I really enjoyed that aspect of it. I'll be interested to know what you think if you read Darwinia. Cheers Deb thanks for watching 👀!
I had an idea for a zone story I'd like to read, but don't feel like writing. In this one the zone gets more intense in its effects as you get closer to its center, and the full extent of its mysteries and dangers isn't known to most people. But, it's known that getting close but not too close to the center can give extraordinary creative inspiration, mathematical insight, etc.; basically, enhancing the effects of the kind of mind you have. So the people who have to police the boundaries (which also shift, putting the guards themselves in some danger as well) are always facing off with inspiration-hopefuls. And people are always trying to calculate the potential risks of seeking the tempting enlightenment the zone may offer.
The Last Days of New Paris by Mieville? Surrealist artists create such a zone around Paris, manifesting surrealist artworks and creating an area which, in 1950, is still occupied by the Nazis. There are also the game settings Zona Alfa, based on Roadside Picnic and Stalker; and Hot War, where some of the "twisted technology" used when the Cold War went hot created a zone of constantly-twisting time and space in the UK.
A lot of great books on this list (including a few favorites)! I like your expansive definition. I never would have thought of City and The City as a zone, but it makes sense when you explain it. I remember it being very tripy. With your definition in mind, Enoch's House in Way Station by Simak could also count as a zone (I won't give spoilers in case you haven't read it).
Peter F. Hamilton's "Void Trilogy" is another great example of a Zone. A giant mysterious "void" threatens to devour the Milky Way galaxy as it expends inexorably into our universe. Within is a pocket universe where mental powers reign supreme over our current physics. Pretty good series as the humans struggle to contain, understand, and defeat the Void.
Hi Malcolm, yes I've read the Void trilogy but couldn't remember enough about it to include, and I have 10 by that stage. It's probably a better candidate than the Vinge book tbh. Thanks for watching 👀!
Great video. I was familiar with most of the novels (Roadside Picnic is an all time of mine), but I added „The man who would be Kling“ to my never ending TBR list …
9:42 - Do you have, or plan to make, a longer review of _In Ascension_ ? I am just reading it, and I am changing my opinion almost from page to page... (Note to those yet to read this novel: *avert your eyes!* ) My first gripe is "technicalities": I know this does not intend to be "hard SF", but if the author includes technical details (e.g. on diving), they should better be correct, or wrong for a good reason. Otherwise, just omit them - don't mention the gas mixture the divers use rather than saying they use oxygen, don't mention decompression sickness (divers call it "bends", not "DCS") if you don't know what the symptoms and therapy is, learn the maximum depth where the lead line is useful, learn the difference between sonar, radar and lidar and their use, learn the proper names of different depth layers etc. Not to mention the fact that deep-sea hydrothermal vents teeming with strange life and perhaps being the origin of it all (an important, if not the main motif of the novel) appear on oceanic _ridges,_ not in _trenches._ The oceanographers in the novel apparently expect the vent at the bottom of the "anomaly", and don't find it strange. The second gripe is prose that feels as if it desperately tries to be "literary" or "artsy". I highlighted dozens of examples on my Kindle, but I won't bother people here with them. This is a shame, because when the author doesn't try too hard, he manages to conjure vivid images and convey the protagonist's state of mind. Sadly, not always.
I've read three on your list - : Darwinia, which was one of my most enjoyable reads - On, & Inverted World, were worthwhile as well. I still haven't obtained copies of Annihilation, Beneath the World a Sea, or Alien Clay - sad to say. After seeing this, Rogue Moon is next up for me - it's been sitting on my shelf for over a year, so it's about time I've gotten to it - The plot-summary of Rogue Moon sounds somewhat similar to Man in a Maze by Robert Silverberg, which was good.
Silverberg's The Man in the Maze. Apart from the Maze itself, the protagonist has his own 'zone' around him wherever he goes, that affects anyone that approaches
The book you mentioned as causing you to feel as though you were reading sideways, reminded me immediately of the great K.W. Jeter's novel, "Farewell Horizontal", a highly inventive gem.
I don’t know if it’s been covered before but Solaris by Lem would be a good one. A giant alien biological mind trying to communicate with the scientific crew through simulacra of their loved ones
One omission is Rosewater by Tade Thompson. I haven't read it yet. It features an alien biodome on Earth. Some of your entries seem to feature whole planets and regions of space, and the recommended other video at the end is about colonies. As an overlap of the two, I'd recommend Amatka by Karin Tidbeck. It's about a colony in a place that has Zone properties, but they're stuck there with no demarcation of inside/outside, so maybe it doesn't count.
Great video but not until I was watching it did I realize I missed an obvious recommendation when you put that community post out; Diamond Dogs by Alistair Reynolds. They explore an alien site and they have to adapt their very bodies to make it possible for them to reach the center.
Scott Westerfeld's edgy cyberpunk Evolution's Darling was pretty weird, back when he wrote adult sf. I think he was in a Delany worship stage, complete with explicit sex and a circular narrative.
I'm only familiar with his Risen Empire books, and I've only read the first of those. I didn't realise he'd gone all YA since those. I'll have a closer look at his earlier books. Thanks for the tip, and thanks for watching 👀!
Hmm well, the best Tchaikovsky is up there with the best Roberts. They are quite different writers though, I think. Roberts probably writes "better" sf, more brainy, but Tchaikovsky is way more successful commercially, and more prolific. I'm very happy they're both writing and will continue to enjoy both. That on the fence enough for you!?? 😀 thanks for watching 👀!
Thanks Eric, I've been underwhelmed by the two I've read so far. I do have a bunch, including Ubik, on my shelves, I'll give him another chance or two. Short stories maybe? Thanks for watching 👀!
One of the first SF books I read at about 12 yo was "The Cosmic Puppets" by PKD.: a man returns to his home town where nothing is as it was or seems. Then "Eye in the Sky" by PKD in which an atomic accident produces multiple "zones" each weirder than the next. Robert Charles Wilson has been uniformly good at creatiing "zonal" fiction: see "Mysterium", "Buring Paradise" and "The Affinities", all first-rate. I love these deep dives into SF tropes!
Great video! I was waiting for the denouement to be Ballard’s Crystal World! If you’ve seen the film adaptation of Annihilation, the ending gives more than a nod to the Ballard Classic. A more recent addition to the zone story would be the Strugatskys’ latterly published The Doomed City. Great video, punchy and concise.
Hi Peter, one or two others have mentioned CW, I must get around to reading it. Glad you enjoyed the video, thanks for watching 👀!
The War against the Chtorr. Terrifying thought of a malevolent alien invasion of earth, systematically turning parts of the planet into the ecosystem of a different world. It's speculated that because the Chtorrians see in infra red, that they come from a world much older and with harsher evolutionary environment than earth, with all the Darwinian advantages it provides the flora and fauna.
After book 3, I couldn't continue further, as the writing had gotten profoundly darker. Also the protagonist had gotten profoundly more and more objectionable as the series continued. It's a seminal work...though probably not for most of you. 😮😳😵
Oh, and if you're reminded of the older, and I guess classic "Color out of Space" by Lovecraft, you're not alone. Chtorr Zones reminds me of the Blasted Heath...but WORSE! 🤯🤯🤯
I must look out for the Chtorr books. Thanks for watching 👀!
Love this!!!! What a fun list! Probably my favorite of your vids so far❤ You gotta add saturation point and walk to aldebaran to this list! Both are novellas…
Hi Whitney, awesome, thanks for the tips, and thanks for watching 👀!
Fantastic video! I love this trope, I'm actually do Annihilation this coming week. What an incredible novel!
I must get on and read the other two!! Cheers, thanks for watching 👀!
Is book anhilation better than movie?
@@Scottlp2 I haven't actually seen the movie. 🤷♂️
@@Scottlp2 I talk about this in my recent review of the novel, but I can't really compare the two. The movie has similar themes to the novel, but isn't the same story. I think both are absolutely incredible and worth a watch / read.
Awesome video!
I wasn't aware that this is one of my favourite SF themes but it seems to be. Most of these books are on my TBR or I've already read.
I really like a good zone story.
Fab, glad you enjoyed it, thanks for watching 👀!
As always a great video!
Was a bit surprised that Solaris didn't pop up.
I'm always amused when the Vinge books appear though - in a lot of ways Vernor did write a classic that is on par with the other top tier scifi books of all time.
Have a good week, Jon.
Hi Thorsten, yes I could have included Solaris. Thanks for watching 👀!
@@SciFiScavenger I have both the Tarkovsky and the Clooney version in my streaming account. I found the older version basically unwatchable. 🙄 Watch the Clooney version...😂🤣😂🤣 i know, CLOONEY?! But the long still shots in the older, supposedly classic Tarkovsky movie did not please me. 🙄😝. There is also a Soviet production 1968 television play that sounds like it's faithful to the book. It's on TH-cam. 🧐😉
I love Darwinia. You're the first person who's ever even mentioned it.
One does one's best! Stick around for more quirky sci fi choices. Thanks for watching 👀!
There is a TV mini series for The City & The City that is pretty good - (I stumbled across it on Amazon)
It might be confusing if you haven't read the book. Inspector Borlú wasn't quite what I'd pictured, but it was still cool to get a visual representation of the Cities. The music was good, too.
I didn't know it had a TV mini series, I will look for it. Thank you.
I shall look out for that thank you. Thanks for watching 👀!
how about The Four Lords of the Diamond Series by Jack L. Chalker.
Ooh not familiar with that one. I've read the first Well of Souls book. Thanks for watching 👀!
Great idea for a video Jon. I've got a lot of these books, but I will buy the Beckett book so I can get it signed when he comes to my SF group next month. According to the Sf commentariat the concept of "The Zone" originates in Thomas Pynchon's "Gravity's Rainbow" which is not strictly SF, but definitely influenced many Sf writers.
Yes I was aware of the Pynchon book but didn't know enough/couldn't find enough about it. Fab that you get to meet CB, I'm expecting to chat to him for the channel next week, video to follow. Thanks for watching 👀!
I read Rogue Moon some years back - the book was written in 1961 - and it is an excellent and gripping tale and it is worth noting that Budrys invented the transporter years before Star Trek :-). I read Roadside Picnic more recently and am a big admirer of the Strugatsky brothers. But 'A Fire Upon the Deep' is one of the more amazing books I've read from a conceptual level. Definitely stretches your brain muscles.
AFUTD is great, really loved it on reading last year, might well have found a place in my top 10. Thanks for watching 👀 !
As soon as the intro finished i immediately thought of annihilation 😁 enjoyed finding some more books in this vein
Fab, glad you enjoyed it, thanks for watching 👀!
Very nice video.
I want to check out the Chris Beckett title and Darwinia.
Annihilation is an all-time favourite of mine.
Hello! Awesome, hope you enjoy them, please you liked the video. Thanks for watching 👀!
Several possible candidates for the Zone might be Farewell Horizontal by KW Jeter, Alistair Reynolds Diamond Dogs, Chaga by Ian MacDonald and Engine Summer by John Crowley.
That reminds me, I should have a copy of Farewell Horizontal coming to me from the US. I think the seagulls are bringing it, it's been 6 weeks already! Thanks for the other tips, I have Chaga but not the other one. Thanks for watching 👀!
Farwell Horizontal was interesting.
JG Ballard’s The Crystal World fits this topic well. A cool topic for sure
Hi Kris, yes you're in good company, a few have suggested that. Thanks for watching 👀!
Love this
Awesome, cheers Abel, thanks for watching 👀!
Food for thought. So many books and so little time. The ever expanding tbr.
I sympathise entirely! Thanks for watching 👀!
Times Eye by Clarke and Baxter, and Brain Wave by Anderson might have been worth a shout. The Man who would be Kling is a most excellent title. Keep up the good work! Would love your thoughts on White Queen by Jones (which hits this criteria too). I struggled through it but feel like it should have been something I was more fond of... And i also have the sequel sitting on my shelf, which I'm currently nowhere near opening at the moment.
Ooh I believe I have White Queen on my shelves, haven't read it. Thanks for the other suggestions, and thanks for watching 👀!
Loved Annihilation. Darwinia, I nearly picked it up yesterday it looks really good. After this, I might read it next :)
Involution Ocean by Bruce Sterling might belong on this list, for it's wild (and unlikely) world building and alien zoology. The Pollinators of Eden probably deserves a look in too, again for it's wild biology. Thanks for another fun video, in which I saw yet more things to add to my 'to-read' list :)
I did think about Involution Ocean but decided that it didn't pass muster as a zone. I do agree with you on the biology I really enjoyed that aspect of it. I'll be interested to know what you think if you read Darwinia. Cheers Deb thanks for watching 👀!
I had an idea for a zone story I'd like to read, but don't feel like writing. In this one the zone gets more intense in its effects as you get closer to its center, and the full extent of its mysteries and dangers isn't known to most people. But, it's known that getting close but not too close to the center can give extraordinary creative inspiration, mathematical insight, etc.; basically, enhancing the effects of the kind of mind you have. So the people who have to police the boundaries (which also shift, putting the guards themselves in some danger as well) are always facing off with inspiration-hopefuls. And people are always trying to calculate the potential risks of seeking the tempting enlightenment the zone may offer.
@@RidleyJones sounds great! Thanks for watching 👀!
Wow, very nice. Thanks for sharing our knowledge 🖖
Hi Andrei, awesome, thanks for watching 👀!
Finished reading Alien Clay recently. Thought it was wonderful, and loved the dark humour of the telling of the early part of the tale.
If you like Alien Clay you should also read Cage of Souls, even better IMHO. Thanks for watching 👀!
Interesting list! I think Mythago Wood could be a good fit within this category, although it's fantasy rather than SF
Yes, that was on my long list but rejected as F not SF. Cheers Robin, thanks for watching 👀!
The Last Days of New Paris by Mieville? Surrealist artists create such a zone around Paris, manifesting surrealist artworks and creating an area which, in 1950, is still occupied by the Nazis.
There are also the game settings Zona Alfa, based on Roadside Picnic and Stalker; and Hot War, where some of the "twisted technology" used when the Cold War went hot created a zone of constantly-twisting time and space in the UK.
Not heard of that Mieville. Is it a short story? Thanks for watching 👀!
excellent video
Awesome, cheers Adam, thanks for watching 👀!
A lot of great books on this list (including a few favorites)! I like your expansive definition. I never would have thought of City and The City as a zone, but it makes sense when you explain it. I remember it being very tripy. With your definition in mind, Enoch's House in Way Station by Simak could also count as a zone (I won't give spoilers in case you haven't read it).
Yes, Enoch's house, the way station, is a good shout. Glad you enjoyed it, thanks for watching 👀!
Peter F. Hamilton's "Void Trilogy" is another great example of a Zone. A giant mysterious "void" threatens to devour the Milky Way galaxy as it expends inexorably into our universe. Within is a pocket universe where mental powers reign supreme over our current physics. Pretty good series as the humans struggle to contain, understand, and defeat the Void.
Hi Malcolm, yes I've read the Void trilogy but couldn't remember enough about it to include, and I have 10 by that stage. It's probably a better candidate than the Vinge book tbh. Thanks for watching 👀!
Great video. I was familiar with most of the novels (Roadside Picnic is an all time of mine), but I added „The man who would be Kling“ to my never ending TBR list …
Hi Michael. Kling is a short novella available from NewCon press. There might be an ebook. Thanks for watching 👀!
9:42 - Do you have, or plan to make, a longer review of _In Ascension_ ?
I am just reading it, and I am changing my opinion almost from page to page... (Note to those yet to read this novel: *avert your eyes!* )
My first gripe is "technicalities": I know this does not intend to be "hard SF", but if the author includes technical details (e.g. on diving), they should better be correct, or wrong for a good reason. Otherwise, just omit them - don't mention the gas mixture the divers use rather than saying they use oxygen, don't mention decompression sickness (divers call it "bends", not "DCS") if you don't know what the symptoms and therapy is, learn the maximum depth where the lead line is useful, learn the difference between sonar, radar and lidar and their use, learn the proper names of different depth layers etc. Not to mention the fact that deep-sea hydrothermal vents teeming with strange life and perhaps being the origin of it all (an important, if not the main motif of the novel) appear on oceanic _ridges,_ not in _trenches._ The oceanographers in the novel apparently expect the vent at the bottom of the "anomaly", and don't find it strange.
The second gripe is prose that feels as if it desperately tries to be "literary" or "artsy". I highlighted dozens of examples on my Kindle, but I won't bother people here with them. This is a shame, because when the author doesn't try too hard, he manages to conjure vivid images and convey the protagonist's state of mind. Sadly, not always.
No, I don't tend to do longer reviews of individual books these days, they just don't get many views. Shame you're not enjoying it. 🤷♂️
I've read three on your list - : Darwinia, which was one of my most enjoyable reads - On, & Inverted World, were worthwhile as well.
I still haven't obtained copies of Annihilation, Beneath the World a Sea, or Alien Clay - sad to say.
After seeing this, Rogue Moon is next up for me - it's been sitting on my shelf for over a year, so it's about time I've gotten to it - The plot-summary of Rogue Moon sounds somewhat similar to Man in a Maze by Robert Silverberg, which was good.
Ah, I'm yet to read that particular Silverberg, I think I have a copy tho. Thanks for watching 👀!
Silverberg's The Man in the Maze. Apart from the Maze itself, the protagonist has his own 'zone' around him wherever he goes, that affects anyone that approaches
Ah interesting, haven't read that particular Silverberg. Good tip, thanks for watching 👀!
The book you mentioned as causing you to feel as though you were reading sideways, reminded me immediately of the great K.W. Jeter's novel, "Farewell Horizontal", a highly inventive gem.
Yes, similar (although also v different) premise. I am waiting for a copy of Farewell Horizontal to arrive, actually. Thanks for watching 👀!
I don’t know if it’s been covered before but Solaris by Lem would be a good one. A giant alien biological mind trying to communicate with the scientific crew through simulacra of their loved ones
Hi yes a couple of people.have suggested that, good one. Thanks for watching 👀 !
One omission is Rosewater by Tade Thompson. I haven't read it yet. It features an alien biodome on Earth.
Some of your entries seem to feature whole planets and regions of space, and the recommended other video at the end is about colonies. As an overlap of the two, I'd recommend Amatka by Karin Tidbeck. It's about a colony in a place that has Zone properties, but they're stuck there with no demarcation of inside/outside, so maybe it doesn't count.
Ooh that sounds interesting! Thanks for the tips, and thanks for watching 👀!
Great video but not until I was watching it did I realize I missed an obvious recommendation when you put that community post out; Diamond Dogs by Alistair Reynolds. They explore an alien site and they have to adapt their very bodies to make it possible for them to reach the center.
Yes somebody else mentioned that. I don't think I've read much of Reynolds' shorter work, must fix that. Thanks for watching 👀!
Scott Westerfeld's edgy cyberpunk Evolution's Darling was pretty weird, back when he wrote adult sf. I think he was in a Delany worship stage, complete with explicit sex and a circular narrative.
I'm only familiar with his Risen Empire books, and I've only read the first of those. I didn't realise he'd gone all YA since those. I'll have a closer look at his earlier books. Thanks for the tip, and thanks for watching 👀!
Who's your fave Roberts or Tchaikovsky? Tell me for a gold star
Hmm well, the best Tchaikovsky is up there with the best Roberts. They are quite different writers though, I think. Roberts probably writes "better" sf, more brainy, but Tchaikovsky is way more successful commercially, and more prolific. I'm very happy they're both writing and will continue to enjoy both. That on the fence enough for you!?? 😀 thanks for watching 👀!
@@SciFiScavenger Good enough. But no star.
I have Rogue Moon.
Excellent, a classic.
I may have mentioned this on a previous video, but for a really good mindfuck try Ubik by PKD. Or most books by Dick.
Thanks Eric, I've been underwhelmed by the two I've read so far. I do have a bunch, including Ubik, on my shelves, I'll give him another chance or two. Short stories maybe? Thanks for watching 👀!
The Maze of Death has this trope.
One of the first SF books I read at about 12 yo was "The Cosmic Puppets" by PKD.: a man returns to his home town where nothing is as it was or seems. Then "Eye in the Sky" by PKD in which an atomic accident produces multiple "zones" each weirder than the next. Robert Charles Wilson has been uniformly good at creatiing "zonal" fiction: see "Mysterium", "Buring Paradise" and "The Affinities", all first-rate.
I love these deep dives into SF tropes!