I was really apprehensive when the trans character, Hyun-Ju, first appeared. I didn’t have any warning as I went in completely blind. I definitely held my breath a lot in the beginning when she was on screen, but ultimately fell in love with her and her obviously careful character writing. There are so many moments that unexpectedly made me tear up! (Her bitch slapping another cis woman into coherence, the bathroom scene, the granny saying she liked her as she was now before the son undermines her by saying the granny called her “unsightly” when they first interacted and the granny going off at him and spilling his milk, and of course, the other girl saying “I think you’re beautiful, Unnie” (big sister said from one female to another). There were some moments I didn’t think she should have had to clarify of course, like going into her want for bottom surgery with strangers etc, but I think it toed the line between being an introduction to ignorant cis folk and also being for us, trans folk, as well?? Which I did not expect. I was TERRIFIED when she chose O twice, seeing it as potentially being because she needed the money to transition. And I didn’t like the potential implication of her “choosing lives” over it. But I really like how they rectified it actually? And emphasised it wasn’t “just surgery” but the need to escape South Korea and go to a more accepting place, with Thailand, and be herself. It’s also her one character flaw and they used it so well I think, and also didn’t make her the only one with conflict in that regard, which essentially each pair having a X vs O delema (the son, Gi-hun’s friend, etc, choosing O in the second round, before they all come together in the end). I was a little sad when I found out the actor that played her was a cis guy, but honestly? Was reassured when I looked into it more. The fact of the matter is, this is set in South Korea, in Asia, where things ARE worse for trans people (somehow). And this is a new thing. Plus the director saying he tried to find a trans woman for the role, but couldn’t because of the stigma and how he found that fact “heart breaking” spoke to me. Then there is also the pressure and scrutiny that said Korean trans actor would face both locally and abroad. Do I wish it could have been done by a trans woman? Obviously. But for what it’s worth I was happily surprised with what they did do with it. That being said, I’m just one trans person, and a trans guy at that. So looking forward to your own analysis of the situation on Saturday, dear Vera! And here’s to hoping S3 sticks the landing! 🤞
I really hope one day we'll live in a world where a trans person can portray a trans person on screen without any scrutiny and threats, but until then, I do applaud the director the actor for not only the care they took to put this lovely character on screen, but also the bravery of facing the scrutiny themselves for doing so. I knew of some of this director's work before squid game so I was not surprised that he always choose to tackle some seriously difficult and controversial subjects. but the actor? I was completely floored by him.
@@iamai_iggs I hope for the day when a trans person, post coming out and transitioning and what not, portrays a character who is cis ora character who it's never revieled (as with cis people)
I can understand if none of the South Korean trans actresses were willing to take the role or if they didn’t want to cast a Korean American trans actress. I just wish that, if they had to cast a cis person in the role, they’d have cast an androgynous cis woman in the role.
@@rylsahawneh3662 I don't know I think I prefer it that the actor's not an androgynous cis woman. I'm a trans guy but I don't have any hormones or surgery done so most people just assume I'm a girl, even when I wear more masculine clothing, so having an actor play a character who if it wasn't for the hair and make up most people would just assume was male makes me feel seen; like you don't have to fit into a societally deemed level of stereotypical gender appearance norms before you get to be considered your preferred gender.
i think the fishermen didn't kill the cop guy because the frontman paid him to watch over him, since the frontman still seems to care about his brother (at least enough to not kill him but to just shoot him in the shoulder), so the frontman might be keeping his brother close rather than dead. that's just a hunch but, i think that's how it'll g.
That's what I feel too. I think the fisherman is not someone hired by 'the games', but Inho himself to look after his brother and keep him as far away from the games as possible - whatever the cost. I don't think he's here to kill anyone if he can avoid it. He only kills that one merc after several failed attempts to just get him to leave. It seems like he'll definitely kill if he has to, but that his job is to simply mislead and misdirect, and that that's what he's intending to do.
I liked the series overall. I mainlined it all in one day, and it left me shaken by the time we got to the end of the last episode. I wonder if my opinion would have changed if I'd taken it more slowly. But I thought it was a logical continuation of the previous series, and I liked that we didn't set the majority of the story immediately after the end of the first season. I'm hoping that Jin-ho's arc (island-hunting) will be more satisfying in season 3, and that it will end up being worth following. I liked Thanos as an antagonist, and I feel sorry for the actor the more I learn about just how much it took for him to even get the role, and how he's treated by media in South Korea. It is difficult to judge the story as a whole, since it isn't over yet. The only story with closure was that of the recruiter (and WOW that was an intense story. Edge of my seat all of episode 1). There's a lot to finish, and whether season 3 sticks the landing will probably determine how I liked the season as a whole.
With Hunger Games is the opposite of your theory. Catching Fire, the immediate sequel, is considered by many, including myself as not only superior to the 1st film, but actually the best film of the entire series.
I know, and I don't even disagree. But, for me at least, it still inherently suffers from having to do the games again because the sense of discovery is gone.
I really like how it play with our expectations. Is almost like when you watch a huge plot twist movie again, like the six sense but something is not completely right.
I think something that is really telling about this show is that the creator didn't make that much money from the actual show, from what I've heard it was something in the contract that Netflix earned much more money and didn't give him any bonuses, to the point that the creator didn't want to continue making the show (if I understand correctly.) Also as a trans person myself, I feel very conflicted about the portrayal of the trans character in season 2, I really enjoyed her and thought the actor did a great job, even though he's a cis man. From what I've seen about South Korea's acceptance towards lgbtq+ folks, there is little to no acceptance and that the director really wanted to cast a trans woman, however there are no openly trans actors in South Korea and they were worried about hiring someone that would be targeted by the community and potentially have no job offers going forward. It's not a great excuse, but it also kind of explains why they made the choice they made. I was also a huge k-drama fan back in highschool and I haven't seen any Korean shows that actually had trans characters in them, so it was nice to see somewhat of a step forward? If that makes sense...
I’m not sure what deal Netflix had to cut to get him to come back but the issue was what impacted most Netflix contract at the time (this was part of what the strike was over): there was no residuals. Normally success this big means extra money, but not with the contract he had. I’ll have my thoughts on the trans character out later this week on the main channel.
I'd argue that is a completely reasonable excuse considering how unhinge the Korean masses can be. The guy who played thanos had some controversies because he smoked weed YEARS AGO and the Korean audience still hasn't forgiven him. The writer said recently he was surprised to find out fans haven't forgiven him for what he did. This is not a loud minority, he had to skip tours, interviews and the press of the show because of the bad advertisement that his image was causing to the show. Now IMAGINE how bad it would be for a trans woman. I honestly understand why they didn't want anyone in that situation to be harassed on a nation wide level
@@oscarchavezavellan2738 Ok... and is there a reason as to why they couldn't cast a cis woman instead of a cis man so that they wouldn't be reinforcing the idea that trans women are just men pretending?
@BreakRoomofGeeks thats an incredibly valid point! I think i was just trying to say that I'm glad they included some type of trans representation even if it was rather messy? I was totally looking at it through a lense that recognizes all trans folks are valid in their presentation rather than what a conservative person might think when they watch the show and go "oh look trans women are men in dresses" type of bs. Looking forward to your video on the subject!!
@@BreakRoomofGeeksFair point,though I never said it was right or wrong to cast a man, I just said it is understandable why they couldn't get a trans Korean woman.Personally, I didn't think too much of it because the character itself was in the process of physically transitioning.
I need to preface with the fact that I'm not trans myself, one of my friends who watched the show with me is trans and was born in SK so perhaps my view of Hyun-Ju is very influenced by how much my friend enjoyed her and her opinions of the character. I also no longer live in SK, but I did follow the Korean news and the online discussions in Korea when the casting of this character was announced. all of that to say if I come off as ignorant, please know that I mean no harms and go straight ahead and correct me. when Hyun-Ju was revealed in the promo, let's just say the situation was quite ugly on the Korean side. the conversation was not "why is a cis-man playing a trans woman", but "why is there a trans character", period. both the director and the actor were very very intensely criticized. now add to this the fact that Korea is an extremely anti-woman, anti-feminism society. like, when you hear how birth rate in SK is at an all-time low, it's not just the bad socio-economical situation that's making it expensive to have a child, it's also because Korean women are experiencing so much misogyny that they've invented the 4B movement (no dating men, no having sex with men, no marrying men and no having children with men). being a female celebrity, no matter how famous, doesn't afford you any break from the scrutiny of being a woman. all it does is opening you up for more exploitation. so when I saw the hate thrown at the actor playing Hyun-Ju, I don't wanna think about how much worse it would've been if it was an actress. I can't tell you for sure 100% that the director took this into consideration when he was casting the role, but I can say for a fact that being a cis-man definitely afforded the actor at least some grace and privilege when it comes to the hate online. Hyun-Ju hasn't finished all her gender-affirming surgeries, so I thought it made sense to have a cis-man play the role because her not passing as a woman creates an interesting interaction with the old granny. it also leads to the message that she's still beautiful even though she's not presenting as binary (my friend said that was touching because she often felt the pressure to be a "perfect woman" and the beauty standard that came with it, but idk if this is a general feeling amongst trans people). there's also the worry that a cis-man playing this role would be confirming the idea that trans women are just men pretending to be women. the director probably thought about this as well, hence there's the scene when Hyun-Ju, the old granny and the pregnant girl all go to the bathroom together at midnight. the granny told the guard regarding Hyun-Ju that "it's ok, she's a real woman". a little on the nose? yea, but considering how it comes from an old lady with no filter or sensitivity about these things, it makes sense. I don't think it's bad to spell out the message sometimes. but I'm guessing that the biggest reason to have Hyun-Ju be a pre-op (incomplete op?? idk what the correct term is) trans woman is because she is lifted directly from a real person and the director wants to honor this person. Byun Hui-su was a transgendered SK sergeant who got discharged because of her transition. she continuously challenged the unfair decision to rejoin the military because it was her dream to serve. unfortunately her end was heartbreaking. depression got to her before she was able to rejoin. she was only 22 years old and she never completed all her surgeries. I highly recommend looking up her story. the similarity between her and Hyun-Ju is too intentional. I did wonder if they could've casted a Korean immigrant trans actress for the role, but my friend said the pool for that would be very small. and more importantly, she said Korean immigrants and Koreans living in SK are very different culturally, so she thought it might've been difficult for a Korean immigrant to authentically portray this character, especially since the show is so rooted in the class conflict of SK. I guess we'll have to take my friend's words for this one.
Very well put. I think exposure is so important to just normalizing people. I loved Hyun Ju. To see her try to ask to join groups on multiple occasions just for them to literally look her up and down and say no. To the soft way she checks her hair before taking her picture to turning into a commando when leading the rebel soldiers and more importantly them listening to her and following the instructions she laid out. Fab. Her interaction with Young Mi is a lot. When they were voting and Hyun Ju changes her vote to stay, she apologizes to Young Mi, but it's like is she apologizing because she really wanted money to have her surgery and live her life (hopefully peacefully) in another country? And then watching Young Mi get killed in front of her, is she (assuming she lives) going to associate her surgery with the fact that she voted to stay and Young Mi dying? It's like Gi hun said, how can you comfortable spend money that you know so many people died because of> Still. She's by far my favorite character. Her slapping the sh1t out of the Shaman also helped 😜
@@skiwlz I think that's why her interaction with Young-Mi is so brilliant. a capitalist society will always encourage us to compete against each other, asking us to abandon our humanity, or turn a blind eye to the weak, in Hyun-Ju's case just for a chance to live as herself. how do we live in a world where so much of our identity is wrapped up in that mess? there's just no winning in such world. during the voting before Mingle, Hyun-Ju votes O, and then as more people vote O, Young-Mi has a breakdown begging to go home. you can see Hyun-Ju starting to question if it's alright to ignore the scared and weaker people like Young-Mi, the old granny or the pregnant girl. it's a perfect depiction of the crooked democracy in our real world where there are only 2 options to choose and how it only takes a little more than half of the votes (not 80%, not even 60%) to decide the fate of the entire population. people often vote for their own benefits without considering what would happen to the more vulnerable ones too. also how quickly people bargain with themselves and how quickly they fall into a false delusion of safety once they're out of immediate dangers. in the real world, people always vote thinking the bad things will not happen to them, or their loved ones, surely they only happen to someone else. but the reality is eventually they happen to everyone. that's just capitalism, you can't bargain with it. I genuinely believe Hyun-Ju votes O thinking that she can protect Young-Mi, given her skills and background. it's only after Hyun-Ju loses someone she cares about that the danger becomes too real, she has no control and no amount of money is worth playing the capitalist game.
So I’m going to be getting into this in far greater detail in a main channel video in a few days, but to bullet point: - I accept that no harm was intended and will happily praise the quality of both the writing and the performance. - While I remain somewhat skeptical, I’m prepared to let slide the claim by the creator that it was “near impossible” to find an out trans woman actress for the part, due to my not being familiar enough with South Korean culture to have any footing to challenge that claim. - It’s still a massive problem that a cis man was cast instead of a cis woman because it inherently reinforces the idea that trans women are “just men pretending” because that’s what the actor is. - I’ll note the director has not addressed why a cis woman wasn’t cast or if that was ever considered (not that I could find anyway), but I found at least one instance of a cis woman playing a trans woman in a South Korean production so there is precedent for that. - I will not now, nor in any other instance, accept a defense that is any variant of “she’s pre/mid op so she has to look more manly” to justify the casting, because there are both cis women with naturally more “masculine” features as well as makeup techniques to achieve that effect. I’m not going to directly antagonize the actor or writer/director on these issues in the way that I would for a Hollywood production. Were this an American production I’d be absolutely livid, because there would be zero excuses for this. I’m doing my best to make appropriate allowances. However the simple fact is that at this point in time any reinforcement of the notion that trans women “are just men pretending” is flatly harmful to the transgender community worldwide, and casting a cis man will always reinforce that concept no matter how good the end result is.
@@BreakRoomofGeeks that's all very fair. like I said, my view on the matter is very biased due to my friend. but I'm not gonna talk over the people in the trans community. looking forward to your vid on the main channel. have a lovely day!
The Daily Beast has an article "Why Are We Ignoring the Disturbing Allegations Against ‘Squid Game’ Star Lee Jung-jae?" that references his abusive behavior and homophobia so, no, I won't be watching Squid Game 2, 3, 4, 5, etc., ad infinitum.
the funniest part is I don't think there's a word you said I don't agree with- but my takeaway was still a bit more positive. You're right that it wasn't as good as we might want, and that it's probably as good as we could have gotten, and do HATE that it feels like half a season. This feels like a mid-season cliffhanger, not two full seasons. Like Walking Dead Season Two, they didn't finish the games, they didn't finish- much of anything outside of that payoff you mention that's the MC kind of giving in a little to the "necessity" of death. But outside of being livid that it's broken up the way it is, I liked it, a lot actually. There are givens, we know it's gotta start with red/green light because it's a good game to see one oopsie spiral into half the players dead up front, we know the last game is gong to be squid game because it's in the tittle for crying out loud. But they still mixed it up, in fact I loved the 6-legged minigames as it was a great way to cram in a bunch of smaller games that wouldn't work by themselves. I'll have to check out your later take on the trans woman, I hope you're not too hard on it, from what I understand they wanted to put an actual trans women into the role but they couldn't find a native Korean willing to do it, take that with some grain of salt as it was one of those off hand things that I don't even remember the source let alone if it's actually reliable, but I find it believable at least. And while her story is a little cookie cutter (no pun intended), they seem to at least be trying to give the story and character the respect due, especially as she's inspired by a real person (If anything I think the number of "real people" the writer has directly taken might be a yellow flag- I mean, I have a lot of old friends in my stories- but they're not a 1-1 and most don't even share the same name?) >.> wow- this comment got a lot longer than I intended... ADHD for ya' folks >.< all thoughts come with special bonus facts.
Your first sentence feels like 90% of my conversations with Jessie Gender. We’ll talk about something and I’ll be more negative than her and when we drill down to the reasons why she rarely disagrees with me, it’s just stuff that bugs me more than her.
Looking back at this season, I concur with you that the first episode was in a sense the strongest, as well as the inevitable repetition that all sequels “must” do to satisfy the fans from the first part. I’ve watch several reactions and reviews, and overall my take of the main character of Gi Un was that he was improvising the whole time, hence, why the criticism over his lack of a plan. The original original plan I think was just to find the island and go in guns blazing (which can be dumb but I mean it’s prolly a little more sophisticated than that ) …then the cop came, he pivoted, then he got caught in the club (which wasn’t expected) and pivoted again…then he meets people and different games came up, and he just kept pivoting and pivoting. Sorta of how you mentioned why in the end, he felt necessary to sacrifice people to each his goals despite trying to save everyone’s ass. I don’t mean to offend, but I really love the Hyun Ju trans character, because the familiar relations in Asian societies are so strong, being cut off in the relationship is the same as dying sort to speak. So, she was trying to reborn herself from a living dead state. Then she found her adoptive family with the unfortunate Young Mi and the mom, who we all fear won’t likely make it in S3, but we’ll see. We just have to wait and see if Season 3 can complete the stories.
I had a hard time with the first episode, maybe because it had been so long I kept trying to remember who was who. For me the second and third episodes were the peak. Also I did not realise the Front Man was in the game I can't believe I missed that.
I didn't have a problem with the detective storyline until I finished the season and thought that pretty much went nowhere and the cliffhanger annoyed me, I am getting real sick of cliffhanger between seasons abit off topic I think it started with hotd season 2 where I am like yeah I am sick of cliffhangers between seasons
I think s1 of is one of the best things I've ever seen on TV EVER, like it's perfection and in comparison s2 is just very good... and that unfortunately makes it seem worse than it actually is, because it is still VERY good, it just isn't perfection. ITA agree with your starting point, it was as much as it could be within the frame that the first season created. I also have some thoughts on 120... but it's all Rosa Parks minor for me. Here's well-intentioned people trying to create positive and influential representation that will not be ruined in an environment that is extremely hostile, but by compromising their representative to be more what they GUESS is more palatable they erase quite a bit of the real representation that is actually needed. and they reveal a bit of their own misconceptions of what can even be counted as progress. ...But I still freaking love her though. She is Rocky Horror Picture Show, she is Pricilla, Queen of the Desert, and she is Denise Bryson to me.
Aha, that's where you're wrong. If you allow me to put my beanie on for a sec, I can inform you that Squid Game is actually a critique of *communism*. You can tell because communism is bad and the squid game is bad. Capitalism is good, so obviously this couldn't be a cirtique of that.
I was really apprehensive when the trans character, Hyun-Ju, first appeared. I didn’t have any warning as I went in completely blind. I definitely held my breath a lot in the beginning when she was on screen, but ultimately fell in love with her and her obviously careful character writing.
There are so many moments that unexpectedly made me tear up! (Her bitch slapping another cis woman into coherence, the bathroom scene, the granny saying she liked her as she was now before the son undermines her by saying the granny called her “unsightly” when they first interacted and the granny going off at him and spilling his milk, and of course, the other girl saying “I think you’re beautiful, Unnie” (big sister said from one female to another). There were some moments I didn’t think she should have had to clarify of course, like going into her want for bottom surgery with strangers etc, but I think it toed the line between being an introduction to ignorant cis folk and also being for us, trans folk, as well?? Which I did not expect.
I was TERRIFIED when she chose O twice, seeing it as potentially being because she needed the money to transition. And I didn’t like the potential implication of her “choosing lives” over it. But I really like how they rectified it actually? And emphasised it wasn’t “just surgery” but the need to escape South Korea and go to a more accepting place, with Thailand, and be herself. It’s also her one character flaw and they used it so well I think, and also didn’t make her the only one with conflict in that regard, which essentially each pair having a X vs O delema (the son, Gi-hun’s friend, etc, choosing O in the second round, before they all come together in the end).
I was a little sad when I found out the actor that played her was a cis guy, but honestly? Was reassured when I looked into it more. The fact of the matter is, this is set in South Korea, in Asia, where things ARE worse for trans people (somehow). And this is a new thing. Plus the director saying he tried to find a trans woman for the role, but couldn’t because of the stigma and how he found that fact “heart breaking” spoke to me. Then there is also the pressure and scrutiny that said Korean trans actor would face both locally and abroad. Do I wish it could have been done by a trans woman? Obviously. But for what it’s worth I was happily surprised with what they did do with it.
That being said, I’m just one trans person, and a trans guy at that. So looking forward to your own analysis of the situation on Saturday, dear Vera! And here’s to hoping S3 sticks the landing! 🤞
Praying she survives. There are too many loveable characters for this to end with only one survivor again.
I really hope one day we'll live in a world where a trans person can portray a trans person on screen without any scrutiny and threats, but until then, I do applaud the director the actor for not only the care they took to put this lovely character on screen, but also the bravery of facing the scrutiny themselves for doing so. I knew of some of this director's work before squid game so I was not surprised that he always choose to tackle some seriously difficult and controversial subjects. but the actor? I was completely floored by him.
@@iamai_iggs I hope for the day when a trans person, post coming out and transitioning and what not, portrays a character who is cis ora character who it's never revieled (as with cis people)
I can understand if none of the South Korean trans actresses were willing to take the role or if they didn’t want to cast a Korean American trans actress. I just wish that, if they had to cast a cis person in the role, they’d have cast an androgynous cis woman in the role.
@@rylsahawneh3662 I don't know I think I prefer it that the actor's not an androgynous cis woman. I'm a trans guy but I don't have any hormones or surgery done so most people just assume I'm a girl, even when I wear more masculine clothing, so having an actor play a character who if it wasn't for the hair and make up most people would just assume was male makes me feel seen; like you don't have to fit into a societally deemed level of stereotypical gender appearance norms before you get to be considered your preferred gender.
“Half of a second season” exactly. It feels like we’re getting an intermission. I hope s3 can tie it all together nicely
i think the fishermen didn't kill the cop guy because the frontman paid him to watch over him, since the frontman still seems to care about his brother (at least enough to not kill him but to just shoot him in the shoulder), so the frontman might be keeping his brother close rather than dead. that's just a hunch but, i think that's how it'll g.
That's what I feel too. I think the fisherman is not someone hired by 'the games', but Inho himself to look after his brother and keep him as far away from the games as possible - whatever the cost. I don't think he's here to kill anyone if he can avoid it. He only kills that one merc after several failed attempts to just get him to leave. It seems like he'll definitely kill if he has to, but that his job is to simply mislead and misdirect, and that that's what he's intending to do.
I'm reserving judgement for season 3, but I do like that this season is doing new things and exploring the world outside the game.
I liked the series overall. I mainlined it all in one day, and it left me shaken by the time we got to the end of the last episode. I wonder if my opinion would have changed if I'd taken it more slowly. But I thought it was a logical continuation of the previous series, and I liked that we didn't set the majority of the story immediately after the end of the first season. I'm hoping that Jin-ho's arc (island-hunting) will be more satisfying in season 3, and that it will end up being worth following. I liked Thanos as an antagonist, and I feel sorry for the actor the more I learn about just how much it took for him to even get the role, and how he's treated by media in South Korea. It is difficult to judge the story as a whole, since it isn't over yet. The only story with closure was that of the recruiter (and WOW that was an intense story. Edge of my seat all of episode 1). There's a lot to finish, and whether season 3 sticks the landing will probably determine how I liked the season as a whole.
what the actual hell? I just finished the series. Like exactly 8 minutes ago
With Hunger Games is the opposite of your theory. Catching Fire, the immediate sequel, is considered by many, including myself as not only superior to the 1st film, but actually the best film of the entire series.
I know, and I don't even disagree. But, for me at least, it still inherently suffers from having to do the games again because the sense of discovery is gone.
Engagement for the engagement god!
I really like how it play with our expectations. Is almost like when you watch a huge plot twist movie again, like the six sense but something is not completely right.
I think something that is really telling about this show is that the creator didn't make that much money from the actual show, from what I've heard it was something in the contract that Netflix earned much more money and didn't give him any bonuses, to the point that the creator didn't want to continue making the show (if I understand correctly.) Also as a trans person myself, I feel very conflicted about the portrayal of the trans character in season 2, I really enjoyed her and thought the actor did a great job, even though he's a cis man. From what I've seen about South Korea's acceptance towards lgbtq+ folks, there is little to no acceptance and that the director really wanted to cast a trans woman, however there are no openly trans actors in South Korea and they were worried about hiring someone that would be targeted by the community and potentially have no job offers going forward. It's not a great excuse, but it also kind of explains why they made the choice they made. I was also a huge k-drama fan back in highschool and I haven't seen any Korean shows that actually had trans characters in them, so it was nice to see somewhat of a step forward? If that makes sense...
I’m not sure what deal Netflix had to cut to get him to come back but the issue was what impacted most Netflix contract at the time (this was part of what the strike was over): there was no residuals. Normally success this big means extra money, but not with the contract he had. I’ll have my thoughts on the trans character out later this week on the main channel.
I'd argue that is a completely reasonable excuse considering how unhinge the Korean masses can be. The guy who played thanos had some controversies because he smoked weed YEARS AGO and the Korean audience still hasn't forgiven him. The writer said recently he was surprised to find out fans haven't forgiven him for what he did. This is not a loud minority, he had to skip tours, interviews and the press of the show because of the bad advertisement that his image was causing to the show. Now IMAGINE how bad it would be for a trans woman. I honestly understand why they didn't want anyone in that situation to be harassed on a nation wide level
@@oscarchavezavellan2738 Ok... and is there a reason as to why they couldn't cast a cis woman instead of a cis man so that they wouldn't be reinforcing the idea that trans women are just men pretending?
@BreakRoomofGeeks thats an incredibly valid point! I think i was just trying to say that I'm glad they included some type of trans representation even if it was rather messy? I was totally looking at it through a lense that recognizes all trans folks are valid in their presentation rather than what a conservative person might think when they watch the show and go "oh look trans women are men in dresses" type of bs. Looking forward to your video on the subject!!
@@BreakRoomofGeeksFair point,though I never said it was right or wrong to cast a man, I just said it is understandable why they couldn't get a trans Korean woman.Personally, I didn't think too much of it because the character itself was in the process of physically transitioning.
I need to preface with the fact that I'm not trans myself, one of my friends who watched the show with me is trans and was born in SK so perhaps my view of Hyun-Ju is very influenced by how much my friend enjoyed her and her opinions of the character. I also no longer live in SK, but I did follow the Korean news and the online discussions in Korea when the casting of this character was announced. all of that to say if I come off as ignorant, please know that I mean no harms and go straight ahead and correct me.
when Hyun-Ju was revealed in the promo, let's just say the situation was quite ugly on the Korean side. the conversation was not "why is a cis-man playing a trans woman", but "why is there a trans character", period. both the director and the actor were very very intensely criticized. now add to this the fact that Korea is an extremely anti-woman, anti-feminism society. like, when you hear how birth rate in SK is at an all-time low, it's not just the bad socio-economical situation that's making it expensive to have a child, it's also because Korean women are experiencing so much misogyny that they've invented the 4B movement (no dating men, no having sex with men, no marrying men and no having children with men). being a female celebrity, no matter how famous, doesn't afford you any break from the scrutiny of being a woman. all it does is opening you up for more exploitation. so when I saw the hate thrown at the actor playing Hyun-Ju, I don't wanna think about how much worse it would've been if it was an actress. I can't tell you for sure 100% that the director took this into consideration when he was casting the role, but I can say for a fact that being a cis-man definitely afforded the actor at least some grace and privilege when it comes to the hate online.
Hyun-Ju hasn't finished all her gender-affirming surgeries, so I thought it made sense to have a cis-man play the role because her not passing as a woman creates an interesting interaction with the old granny. it also leads to the message that she's still beautiful even though she's not presenting as binary (my friend said that was touching because she often felt the pressure to be a "perfect woman" and the beauty standard that came with it, but idk if this is a general feeling amongst trans people). there's also the worry that a cis-man playing this role would be confirming the idea that trans women are just men pretending to be women. the director probably thought about this as well, hence there's the scene when Hyun-Ju, the old granny and the pregnant girl all go to the bathroom together at midnight. the granny told the guard regarding Hyun-Ju that "it's ok, she's a real woman". a little on the nose? yea, but considering how it comes from an old lady with no filter or sensitivity about these things, it makes sense. I don't think it's bad to spell out the message sometimes.
but I'm guessing that the biggest reason to have Hyun-Ju be a pre-op (incomplete op?? idk what the correct term is) trans woman is because she is lifted directly from a real person and the director wants to honor this person. Byun Hui-su was a transgendered SK sergeant who got discharged because of her transition. she continuously challenged the unfair decision to rejoin the military because it was her dream to serve. unfortunately her end was heartbreaking. depression got to her before she was able to rejoin. she was only 22 years old and she never completed all her surgeries. I highly recommend looking up her story. the similarity between her and Hyun-Ju is too intentional.
I did wonder if they could've casted a Korean immigrant trans actress for the role, but my friend said the pool for that would be very small. and more importantly, she said Korean immigrants and Koreans living in SK are very different culturally, so she thought it might've been difficult for a Korean immigrant to authentically portray this character, especially since the show is so rooted in the class conflict of SK. I guess we'll have to take my friend's words for this one.
Very well put. I think exposure is so important to just normalizing people. I loved Hyun Ju. To see her try to ask to join groups on multiple occasions just for them to literally look her up and down and say no. To the soft way she checks her hair before taking her picture to turning into a commando when leading the rebel soldiers and more importantly them listening to her and following the instructions she laid out. Fab. Her interaction with Young Mi is a lot. When they were voting and Hyun Ju changes her vote to stay, she apologizes to Young Mi, but it's like is she apologizing because she really wanted money to have her surgery and live her life (hopefully peacefully) in another country? And then watching Young Mi get killed in front of her, is she (assuming she lives) going to associate her surgery with the fact that she voted to stay and Young Mi dying? It's like Gi hun said, how can you comfortable spend money that you know so many people died because of> Still. She's by far my favorite character. Her slapping the sh1t out of the Shaman also helped 😜
@@skiwlz I think that's why her interaction with Young-Mi is so brilliant. a capitalist society will always encourage us to compete against each other, asking us to abandon our humanity, or turn a blind eye to the weak, in Hyun-Ju's case just for a chance to live as herself. how do we live in a world where so much of our identity is wrapped up in that mess? there's just no winning in such world.
during the voting before Mingle, Hyun-Ju votes O, and then as more people vote O, Young-Mi has a breakdown begging to go home. you can see Hyun-Ju starting to question if it's alright to ignore the scared and weaker people like Young-Mi, the old granny or the pregnant girl. it's a perfect depiction of the crooked democracy in our real world where there are only 2 options to choose and how it only takes a little more than half of the votes (not 80%, not even 60%) to decide the fate of the entire population. people often vote for their own benefits without considering what would happen to the more vulnerable ones too. also how quickly people bargain with themselves and how quickly they fall into a false delusion of safety once they're out of immediate dangers. in the real world, people always vote thinking the bad things will not happen to them, or their loved ones, surely they only happen to someone else. but the reality is eventually they happen to everyone. that's just capitalism, you can't bargain with it. I genuinely believe Hyun-Ju votes O thinking that she can protect Young-Mi, given her skills and background. it's only after Hyun-Ju loses someone she cares about that the danger becomes too real, she has no control and no amount of money is worth playing the capitalist game.
So I’m going to be getting into this in far greater detail in a main channel video in a few days, but to bullet point:
- I accept that no harm was intended and will happily praise the quality of both the writing and the performance.
- While I remain somewhat skeptical, I’m prepared to let slide the claim by the creator that it was “near impossible” to find an out trans woman actress for the part, due to my not being familiar enough with South Korean culture to have any footing to challenge that claim.
- It’s still a massive problem that a cis man was cast instead of a cis woman because it inherently reinforces the idea that trans women are “just men pretending” because that’s what the actor is.
- I’ll note the director has not addressed why a cis woman wasn’t cast or if that was ever considered (not that I could find anyway), but I found at least one instance of a cis woman playing a trans woman in a South Korean production so there is precedent for that.
- I will not now, nor in any other instance, accept a defense that is any variant of “she’s pre/mid op so she has to look more manly” to justify the casting, because there are both cis women with naturally more “masculine” features as well as makeup techniques to achieve that effect.
I’m not going to directly antagonize the actor or writer/director on these issues in the way that I would for a Hollywood production. Were this an American production I’d be absolutely livid, because there would be zero excuses for this. I’m doing my best to make appropriate allowances. However the simple fact is that at this point in time any reinforcement of the notion that trans women “are just men pretending” is flatly harmful to the transgender community worldwide, and casting a cis man will always reinforce that concept no matter how good the end result is.
@@iamai_iggs Facts. :)
@@BreakRoomofGeeks that's all very fair. like I said, my view on the matter is very biased due to my friend. but I'm not gonna talk over the people in the trans community. looking forward to your vid on the main channel. have a lovely day!
The Daily Beast has an article "Why Are We Ignoring the Disturbing Allegations Against ‘Squid Game’ Star Lee Jung-jae?" that references his abusive behavior and homophobia so, no, I won't be watching Squid Game 2, 3, 4, 5, etc., ad infinitum.
Dipped in to give a thumbs up. Didn't watch the whole video. Still watching season 2. Will be back when I'm done. Looking forward to it.
the funniest part is I don't think there's a word you said I don't agree with- but my takeaway was still a bit more positive. You're right that it wasn't as good as we might want, and that it's probably as good as we could have gotten, and do HATE that it feels like half a season. This feels like a mid-season cliffhanger, not two full seasons. Like Walking Dead Season Two, they didn't finish the games, they didn't finish- much of anything outside of that payoff you mention that's the MC kind of giving in a little to the "necessity" of death. But outside of being livid that it's broken up the way it is, I liked it, a lot actually. There are givens, we know it's gotta start with red/green light because it's a good game to see one oopsie spiral into half the players dead up front, we know the last game is gong to be squid game because it's in the tittle for crying out loud. But they still mixed it up, in fact I loved the 6-legged minigames as it was a great way to cram in a bunch of smaller games that wouldn't work by themselves.
I'll have to check out your later take on the trans woman, I hope you're not too hard on it, from what I understand they wanted to put an actual trans women into the role but they couldn't find a native Korean willing to do it, take that with some grain of salt as it was one of those off hand things that I don't even remember the source let alone if it's actually reliable, but I find it believable at least. And while her story is a little cookie cutter (no pun intended), they seem to at least be trying to give the story and character the respect due, especially as she's inspired by a real person (If anything I think the number of "real people" the writer has directly taken might be a yellow flag- I mean, I have a lot of old friends in my stories- but they're not a 1-1 and most don't even share the same name?)
>.> wow- this comment got a lot longer than I intended... ADHD for ya' folks >.< all thoughts come with special bonus facts.
Your first sentence feels like 90% of my conversations with Jessie Gender. We’ll talk about something and I’ll be more negative than her and when we drill down to the reasons why she rarely disagrees with me, it’s just stuff that bugs me more than her.
@@BreakRoomofGeeks I almost feel like I should take that as a complement, heh
Looking back at this season, I concur with you that the first episode was in a sense the strongest, as well as the inevitable repetition that all sequels “must” do to satisfy the fans from the first part. I’ve watch several reactions and reviews, and overall my take of the main character of Gi Un was that he was improvising the whole time, hence, why the criticism over his lack of a plan. The original original plan I think was just to find the island and go in guns blazing (which can be dumb but I mean it’s prolly a little more sophisticated than that ) …then the cop came, he pivoted, then he got caught in the club (which wasn’t expected) and pivoted again…then he meets people and different games came up, and he just kept pivoting and pivoting. Sorta of how you mentioned why in the end, he felt necessary to sacrifice people to each his goals despite trying to save everyone’s ass.
I don’t mean to offend, but I really love the Hyun Ju trans character, because the familiar relations in Asian societies are so strong, being cut off in the relationship is the same as dying sort to speak. So, she was trying to reborn herself from a living dead state. Then she found her adoptive family with the unfortunate Young Mi and the mom, who we all fear won’t likely make it in S3, but we’ll see.
We just have to wait and see if Season 3 can complete the stories.
I had a hard time with the first episode, maybe because it had been so long I kept trying to remember who was who. For me the second and third episodes were the peak. Also I did not realise the Front Man was in the game I can't believe I missed that.
Vera did you see the news about the Big Finish Novelisations of Jubilee and Chimes of Midnight?!
I am aware, yes.
I didn't have a problem with the detective storyline until I finished the season and thought that pretty much went nowhere and the cliffhanger annoyed me, I am getting real sick of cliffhanger between seasons abit off topic I think it started with hotd season 2 where I am like yeah I am sick of cliffhangers between seasons
when I saw teh trailer, I was afraid it was going to be the same games again
I think s1 of is one of the best things I've ever seen on TV EVER, like it's perfection and in comparison s2 is just very good... and that unfortunately makes it seem worse than it actually is, because it is still VERY good, it just isn't perfection. ITA agree with your starting point, it was as much as it could be within the frame that the first season created.
I also have some thoughts on 120... but it's all Rosa Parks minor for me. Here's well-intentioned people trying to create positive and influential representation that will not be ruined in an environment that is extremely hostile, but by compromising their representative to be more what they GUESS is more palatable they erase quite a bit of the real representation that is actually needed. and they reveal a bit of their own misconceptions of what can even be counted as progress.
...But I still freaking love her though. She is Rocky Horror Picture Show, she is Pricilla, Queen of the Desert, and she is Denise Bryson to me.
Damn the trans' character with faint praise....
Shields at full-strength for Saturday.
Watch Kaiji-Ultimate survivor
Um… what?
@@BreakRoomofGeeks sorry "watch Kaiji Ultimate survivor" most of the original concept from Squid Game is in that show and it's slightly better.
@@cathnbabs Kaiji is a really fun and dramatic anime, but the art style is butt ugly!
@RideorDinosaur I would say the facial expressions are exagerated so the character look ugly
Yeah I watched this whole thing on fast forward and was still bored.
Aha, that's where you're wrong. If you allow me to put my beanie on for a sec, I can inform you that Squid Game is actually a critique of *communism*. You can tell because communism is bad and the squid game is bad. Capitalism is good, so obviously this couldn't be a cirtique of that.
I cannot for the life of me tell if this is sarcasm.
@@BreakRoomofGeeks It's sarcastic from me, but genuine from Tim Pool lol. Thus the beanie
Ah, I actively ignore people like Pool so I wasn't going to catch that.
@@BreakRoomofGeeks I wish I had that ability lol
sarcasm on the internet without any wink wink nod nod is wild my friend :)) I had a good laugh