You are the Man!! Love your videos and I will continue to watch you for your knowledge and guidance! Got a 2018 / 3500 LOVE IT!! Got 254,000 on her. Pushing towards that 800,000 🎉🎉🎉
Have a 2013 Wrangler JKU with a ticking noise, not sure if it's the ok tick or the bad tick. Will cut open the filter on the next oil change and see what's there. Great video!
Great videos! And MCM vids. Just did rocker arms and lifter’s and the doorman cooler . Used the Melling stuff. So far so good ! Heres a good tip! don’t put your magnetic based harbor, freight work light near the reluctor wheels!! It will keep you busy working your way thru the alldata p0349 diagnostic tree!
1st time seeing your vids but Got another follower here! Appreciate the information. Anyone in the comments have a shop do this repair recently and if so , how much did it run you! Thanks in advance!
News flash, my rocker’s started ticking last yr on my town and country. I drove very little before having it fixed. I knew of the problem with these engines and watched the procedure to do a complete repair. I’m getting too old to do that much of a tear down, wasn’t about to take to a dealership to have it done. I took it to a well known repair shop, they replaced all rockers and lifter’s and had to replace one camshaft ( so once you hear it ticking you better get it done immediately) also replaced spark plugs. All said and done 4700$, 3 yr 3600 mile warranty on their work. Happy with their work, they do a lot of these but I was in sticker shock. Also, my engine had about 150000 miles on it.
Would love it if you or the community could get a great recording of a non-ticking promaster and a ticking one. I imagine if you display the wave of the audio on a computer or phone, maybe it would be visible. I think individuals still incorrectly diagnose it or get worried. I have a 2019, fingers and nuts crossed.
Such a great video! We just had flashing check engine light on our 2022 Ram Promaster 3500 (30,000 miles). Codes P0301 and P0302. Dealer changed two ignition coils (warranty) and we paid for two new spark plugs (they were fried). Drove away. Third day, got flashing check engine light again. Same code. P0303. Drove back to dealer. Now they are replacing the camshaft and associated parts. Hoping this doesn't happen again to the other camshaft. Guess Mopar didn't replace all the rockers in this model year, or the design problem still exists.
@@klgraf for 2022, the vans got the gen III version of the engine, which has been in other chryslers since around 2016 or so. Totally different intake rocker design, and though the exhaust is the same it has the post 2020 upgraded parts. Basically, the tick problem appears to be a thing of the past on the gen III engine. Your problem is super rare, and unrelated, and probably a one-off.
Lol I just asked a question on another video related to the tick but this one pretty well answers it. Thank you kindly for emptying your head I truly apreciate it.
Great descriptive video, love the jokes as well. I bought 24 new 5184296AH rockers and 24 new 5184332AA lifters from Chrysler. I will replace those parts on my 2013 Charger next summer even though I don't think I have the tick yet and under the 100k miles.
Thanks for making videos on the ProMaster. I've watched a few today and it seems they are significantly better than I initially thought. Where do I get a "Free Candy Inside" sticker for one? My mom says hi. Time to go rub one off!
Both the main pattern failures were addressed for the new engine in 2022, AND you have the 9 speed trans which appears to be much more reliable. I think you'll sail past 200k no sweat.
I literally did all these repairs to my 130k 2016 promaster in 2 months Cat converter 4 coils Rocker arms and intake manifold cover Front axle Front brakes and rotors (left caliper too) Almost 8 thousand dollars later im praying nothing else will go wrong. Im a mechanical contractor and i got a 1500 long wheelbase and love the truck but the repairs put a dent in my wallet for sure.
@promastersonly1419 i agree. If it wasn't for the pentastar tick all that stuff would be considered matinence. It's just that the tick just happens to be at a time where regular matience is due.
2017 Jeep Grand Cherokee died. I do regular oil changes. Had the transfer case replaced under warranty at under 50,000 miles. Had a wiring issue at under 60,000. Hood need to be repainted at around 73,000 miles. At 94,000 started seeing P0303, an occasionally rough idle and "Start Stop Not Available" pop up on the info screen. Changed the plugs and coil packs. Went for 2 - 3 weeks no issues except still felt a little rough idle and "Start Stop" message popping up. I was changing the front end components on my '06 Grand Caravan and my son needed a ride to work. I did notice the "Chrysler" tick. Jumped into the Jeep parked for all of 3 hours as I had done some errands. Push the brake push the ignition button and nothing! I had seen before that I did not 1) push the ignition properly or 2) applied the brake properly so I tried it again. Jump start nothing! The starter smoked out. I know where the starter is located so I decide to have my local mechanic do it. He change batteries no effect. He noticed the coolant reservoir was empty. He being a trust worthy mechanic would not do the $1500 starter job (NY prices) put a breaker bar on the engine and turned it. There was a pop when the starter disengaged the flywheel and he went around to about 360 and had to really pull to go further. As here in NY it would cost over $7,000 to do a head more if was discovered it was something else he suggested a new engine. I looked into the top of the cylinders while I was changing the plugs (which were clean just worn) so to me it is lower. Possibly a piston ring issue. So $10,000 I will get 3 years 100,000 miles from Chrysler and am going to do oil changes every 3,000 here out. I am questioning my Mopar man status as of late. my '06 3.8L just goes and goes.
Machines suck, it cant be argued. The pentastar tick (which is surely what you have/had) had to be crazy far gone to grenade the motor, and in fact it will pretty much not run or run so bad you won't be able to drive it. So I dont think your engine sieze was caused by the tick. If I had to take crazy guesses based on what you've told me, I could see the missing coolant being the real issue. A leak of any kind, coolant is gone, engine gets crazy hot and it soaks and is at it's hottest right after you shut it off. Come back, and the starter can't turn it because it's seized. That woudl be my guess. If you like, pull the oil filter and cut it open - you'll confirm that you had the tick by glitter in the filter. If the basic engine wont spin, it's hard to make a case to do anything but replace it. Good used engines are around $1000 - you wont get out of the machine shop for less than that, much less pay for the labor to rebuild it. The 3.8 is a good but not great engine, if you think about it. Durable, cheap to fix, but not very powerful or fuel efficient. For their few fatal flaws, the Pentastar is crazy durable. 500k no sweat. But...they dont tolerate overheat very well.
My Promaster has sounded like that since new. Asked a Mopar mechanic at 50k and he said that was the sound of the injectors 🤔But so far at 77k miles, no engine light or code. Glad to hear that once you get the misfire code, you have some miles before it's bad bad. Thanks for the great video! And that there's a not too crazy fix that'll last the lifetime of the vehicle. Been seeing some friends apparently needing engine swaps lately on their 2022+ vans - scary!
@@promastersonly1419 Do you think the variable valve lifters chatter more in the 2022+ engines causing people to think they have a tick when they don't?
@@CPRebels21 Probably not. Absent a symptom like a misfire, the VVL system will sound the same on day one as at 100k, so people would be unlikely to think there's a problem.
@@promastersonly1419 Sorry my point wasn't clear, there are a lot of people who think their 2022+ vans have a tick the day they get it at the lot or with very low miles (less than 10k). So is it just a noisy engine or paranoid people?
Really appreciate all the info on all the topics and also all the jokes. My question is: Why wait to replace the lifters & the camshaft until the computer spits out a misfire code, and why not replace the lifters & the camshaft when you begin to hear the ticking? If there's metal in the filter and a stethoscope leads you to locate the tick to the valve cover, wouldn't it be better to take care of it right off and not worry about it again?
Yes, your thinking is good. But I like people not to freak out or panic, since from the onset of the misfire you still have many miles. Another factor: we’ve seen cases where a sloppy lifter causes a tick sound, but zero other issues, so I prefer to confirm by seeing metal in the filter. But yeah - caught early you are going to likely save yourself the cost of a cam, and if you let the misfire go for long enough you risk burning out the cat on that bank, as the unburned fuel raises the cat temp.
@@promastersonly1419 Hi Kip! I have a 2016 Promaster 2500 and with 116k I just replaced the rockers/lifters/right intake cam. I followed your instructions exactly for the cooler housing/disassembly (and followed MCM’s instructions for replacing the rockers). Upon starting the van after everything was reassembled I heard a brief louder than normal revving almost as if the muffler were disconnected and then it snapped back into a quiet normal engine hum. I also received these 8 error codes: P0123 Throttle/Pedal Position Sensor 'A' Circuit High.” P0013 problem with the "B" Camshaft Position Actuator Circuit (Bank 1) P0023 PCM) or engine control module (ECM) has detected an issue with the camshaft “B” position actuator circuit in bank 2 P0010 a problem with the "A" camshaft position actuator circuit in a vehicle P0020 bank 2 intake camshaft is not synchronized with the oil control valve. P0113 indicates a problem with the intake air temperature (IAT) sensor or its circuit in a vehicle P0108 Manifold Absolute Pressure Sensor Circuit High P0222 low input in the throttle/pedal position sensor/switch "B" circuit Do you have any ideas for how I should proceed? I’m scared to turn it on again, and all I can think of is disconnecting everything and reseating all the connections or spraying contact cleaner. Thanks for all your help, Cris
@@promastersonly1419 wow you are so smart! My dumb ass thought I needed to put it into neutral to turn the crankshaft manually so I did key the ignition to the on position to do that. Now I get all 8 codes as “permanent” so I assume I just have to wait a number of cycles for it to clear them, but p0023 and p0020 came back as pending so maybe there is something wrong with my connections after all…
You the man . Had my tic issue fixed by the dealer, new cam as well . Also had them install the doorman oil housing. At about 140,000 miles about 8 months ago . 😢cost me $5,000 2 year warranty on work. sounds like I won’t have to worry ever again. Drove to California and back to Cincinnati no problem. Kip do you think they use the newer cam, post 2019 my van is a 2017 ? Also I’d be willing to drive 3 hours just to have you work on my van I think it’s time for new struts, shocks , bushings, bearings, hubs, etc. I’ve done some pretty cool conversions. Perhaps it might even make it in on of your vids . Guess I could stay a few days and explore the area. Would love to coordinate a time on your schedule of course that you could do the work. Sorry to ramble on . Sure could use some tip time and love 😂 promaster ❤ that is .
They would have had to install the AH rockers, only because where would they get the older stuff? So yeah, you will be unlikely to have to worry about the basic motor. Lots of stuff will go wrong, but the rockers and the oil cooler addresses 90% of the issues. I'm pretty busy, but send me an email to promastersonly@gmail.com
Off the subject question, I purchased two 5 qt containers of Penzoil ultra platinum 5-20w but one arrived as 5-30. Amazon at its best! As these pro masters are finicky on oil, I assume it is ok to add 1 qt of the 5-30 to top off the oil change with using the 5qt 5-20. Don’t want to wait another week for the exchange but if needed I shall. Great videos as always. Thanks
Thanks Kip, I was about to change my transmission fluid and I went under to spray some WD on the bolts and saw what looked like a quick seal job on the side of the pan. Looks like they put concrete on the side. Was going to send a pick to see if I have a potential headache but no way to send in TH-cam. Bought the van a year ago, 2019 2500. Might just have to use the pump to change what I can without changing the filter until a decision is made. Thanks again and I think the KipU will produce great content
@@GreenMonkiCoffee2008 From the factory, the pans are sealed with RTV, which is neatly applied by robots. After a pan drop and drain, shops go back with RTV applied by hand, and it can look messy but that's the way it's done. I prefer to use a gasket, but there's nothing wrong with using RTV, either black or grey. BTW: you wont be able to get a tube deep enough into the pan through the dipstick tube on the trans. Works for oil, but not trans. Pan drop, filter, refill. I have videos on it.
I crossed the Canadian border this spring. Border control agent asked me if i had a tic because he said he saw one in me. He thought I was nervous and hiding something so he made up the tic story. Maybe I should have said "yea, cylinder no. 1" What an ass.
Thanks for sharing your expertise! 2023 2500 camper w 25K. At what point would you upgrade to the Dorman Oil Cooler, the Water Pump Outlet Tube and service trans - 948TE? I'll happily make the trip from South Jersey.
You are unlikely to get the tick, because 2023 engines are somewhat different, and will have the upgraded rockers from new anyway. The oil cooler is the same with the same propensity to leak, but I would wait till it leaks to worry about it. Your 9 speed trans is very different from the older one, and filled with a lifetime fluid and filter. I would consider changing the fluid at 200k, but not before.
Hi there, I owned Ram Promaster 1500... with 145k miles... which generete pretty small ticking noise. I am in Los Angeles area... Do you have any suggestions? Thanks, Steve
Ram Hemi engines had a tick issue due to the rollers as well. High idle times (service vehicles) and infrequent oil changes were supposed contributors to needle bearing failures. We just bought a new ProMaster so hopefully the bugs are worked out. Any thoughts on the “ new” nine speed transmission that the ProMaster now uses?
Absolutlely. But something I forgot to put in the video; generally the filter gets all of it, so even if it has the tick that doesn't really damage the bearings. Often though, if it's had the tick for a long time the misfires may take out a cat on that bank, P0420 or P0430.
My van has 250.000 not sure if anything has been done. I bought it with 230.000 miles. It only misfires when driving on highway and I go over 5.000 RPM. I have to let it down below to get back to normal. But as long I keep it below 5k rpm it is fine. Coils/sparkplugs or it is job for you rockers and cam? 😂
A small amount of glitter per oil change is, believe it or not, more or less normal. But without a symptom like a code or rough running, you wouldn't necessarily do anything even if you found a smoked turkey in the oil filter.
@@promastersonly1419after that oil change, we just did over 45 hours of driving through the mountains in BC Canada, and not a flinch thru all of it. 13.8 L per 100km
My wifes 2018 Grand Cherokee 3.6 liter at 98k miles is throwing a P0305 misfire code but only if the engine is taken to near redline like pedal to the floor. If I reset the the misfire code the code may not happen again for weeks with normal driving. But the code will come on again if the engine goes up to, or near redline RPM. No obvious ticking using penzoil platinum 0w-20 the engine has never had a tuneup. Please advise, thanks.
The GC by 2018 had the newer version of the engine which doesn't seem to suffer from the tick. But a compression related misfire (like the tick) would be more prominent at high load, low speed use. As opposed to your high rpm miss. My guess would be you have an arcing coil boot, or something else ignition related. It's due for plugs at 100k anyway, so throw in a coil and boot on #5 and see if it goes away.
My engine on my 2021 just blew a rod at 16,000 miles. They said it will only be warrenty under the original warrenty when they replace it? Why would this happen? The whole point of me spending 40k on a van is to get around maintenance.
For an engine to just blow a rod like that with so few miles, the only conclusion you can really come to is either that particular rod was defective from new, or something else (crank, wrist pin, etc) was defective from new. Extremely rare, but they make close to 1 million of these engine a year and it's statistics that rare problems will happen. However, that's exactly what the warranty is for!
So when I replace the oil cooler, should I repalce the plastic lower intake manifold with an aluminum intake ? My reasoning it would help with the oil cooling by transferring heat from the oil cooler. My pentastar runs hot ( for me) . It's probably a non issue but since Im there why not ? Opinions please
Good thinking, but probably not. The oil cooler isnt actually a cooler, it’s an oil warmer. It’s there to get the oil up to temp quicker, and to tie it to water temp. This is because the engine timing is based on oil viscosity, and they want it as consistent as possible. I’m about to test the aluminum lower, but I’m unsure if i should recommend it to my customers. There’s zero issues with the plastic ones. They dont leak, fail, or break and they are generic to all the pentastars so if you need one they are dirt cheap.
@promastersonly1419 I really appreciate the reply, and the sound advice ! I'm like you, a long time Chrysler fan. And while the pentastar engine isn't perfect, it's still a great engine! Thanks again
Got a question for you. Got the flashing engine light(no previous history of engine light or codes) and cylinder 5 misfire code while traveling through Wyoming. Van struggles to move when I give it gas and engine dies within 10-20 seconds when left in idle. Stopped at a local shop, changed plug and coil but no change. checked compression and 1 & 3 have 120psi, but 5 has zero psi. Can definitely hear the loud tick coming from engine. Got an estimate from the shop today and they quoted $8500 to replace the rocker arms and lifters and says they can't guarantee anything until they open it up, what they recommend is to put in a used 100K mile engine for $9600. Van is still in Wyoming while I'm back home in California so trying to deal with the shop over the phone and it's difficult to get anything done. Do you think replacing the rocker arms will fix the issue? or is my engine toast and will I be better off swapping the engine?
Tough one, because it will be difficult to get information out of the shop. What I would do is request a leakdown test for #5. This is where they put say 100psi of air into #5, and see where the compression is going. Sound out the intake, intake valve. Sound out the tailpipe, exhaust valve. Sound out the dipstick, ring piston or cylinder wall. That test tells you what to do next, because if the rings are shot it's a motor. What you are describing is not the usual pentastar tick stuff, where the rocker fails. My guess is a valve has failed. That tick is the remnants of that valve getting bashed by the piston. They could confirm this easily with a camera down #5 plug hole - my guess is you'd see carnage. If so, then yeah it's motor time. Other factors: replacing the rockers for $8500 is 4x more than the job normally goes for, but $9600 for a used engine is maybe $2000 more that it would normally cost. Conclusion: it's in the wrong shop. California is usually pretty expensive, but the cost to ship it home is probably less than the difference if you can get it to a more reasonable shop close to home. Find out by getting a quote from Garcias Auto Transport. I've used them in the past and they are reasonable.
@@promastersonly1419 Thanks for your insight. I guess bringing the van home is the first priority. Surprised this engine kicked the dust as it only has 60000 miles on it, although it is a 2014.
@@promastersonly1419 So I finally got the van back in California. Towed it to a local shop and had them run scope and leak down test. Says 100% leak and it's leaking to the intake, scope doesn't show any damage, nothing wrong on the piston. Recommends replacing the cylinder head for $5K(Price seem inline?). I asked around few other shops and majority of them says they'll never replace just the head on this motor saying other problems will pop up afterwards, so that's certainly concerning. What do you think are the chances that it's something broken in the valve train? Could seized lifter/rocker arm/bad cam lobe cause a intake valve to stay stuck open?
@@user-kl5qi2wh4o a leaky #5 intake valve could be caused by the valve itself, or caused by something wonky with the rocker or lifter. The good news is that if they pull the intake, and pull the cam sensor, they should be able to get a camera into the sensor hole such that they can see both #5 intake valvetrain bits. The same camera may be able to get into the spark plug hole and inspect the valves themselves. This diag will give you 100% conf where the problem lies. If its not the valves themselves, its not the head and savings will be huge. $5000 is plausible because to get the rear head off you have to pull the timing cover, and thats a bitch with it in the van. It can be done, but I personally would pull the engine.
@@promastersonly1419 Hey Kip. I ended up opening it up myself tonight. Turns out I have a broken valve spring on cylinder 5. Made a new post about it on Promaster forums. Is this something auto shop can repair fairly easily?
I hope it’s ok I ask u a technical question. My 2017 cooling fans failed and overheated blowing a hole in the thermostat housing. Any advise where to look for problems? It has loss of power lags to accelerate and sometimes the engine shakes, not hearing the tick though
We've seen that thermostat pin through the housing thing several times. Dorman sells an aluminum upgrade housing that's cheaper than the plastic. These engines are robust, but they dont tolerate overheat very well. I could think of a lot of things that can happen when they get really hot. I'd be looking for evidence of head gasket failure (like if the inside of the coolant bottle smells like exhaust) or possibly a melted lower intake manifold. I have a video showing what that looks like - search "Van Detective" to find it.
@@Broncofan-4life Possible, but far less likely. Yours is a gen 3 pentastar, with very different (and so far durable) intake rockers. The exhaust rockers are the same, but yours already has the upgraded parts in it.
@promastersonly1419 thanks, makes me feel better, still worried about the oil filter assembly leaking someday, or did they do something about that also?
@ the cooler assembly is the same, thus the dorman still solves the problem. Chrysler released better seals for it around 2021, but i believe it will still leak eventually. I wouldnt worry about it till maybe 150k or more.
The tick job is a big piece of surgery, so I would wait until you have a reason not to wait. But what you can do is cut open the used oil filters every oil change, or every other oil change. That will give you some warning.
Well cut my first oil filter open on 97k 2017. I assume we are looking at the outer part of the filter . I saw some sparkling pieces scattered around not too many . I say about 1 or 2 sparkle per 2 sq inch How much is considered time to tear it apart?
@@joebama6945 That's probably not enough to declare that the rocker needle bearings are coming apart. It's super obvious, with every pleat of the filter packed with glitter and black burnt oil.
Crazy extended oil changes will cause sludge and other issues, but the tick itself is not caused by oil. I have a whole video on this. Search my vids for "causes" and you'll find it. Neither oil, nor idling cause the tick and while I can't 100% prove that, I can provide a mountain of evidence that it's true.
@@jrod332 yes. Your 2022-up has different intake hardware, and already has upgraded exhaust rockers. So far, the tick isnt a thing on those newer engines.
Heard there is a pentastar preventative oil filter located kit - instals where oil filter goes - keeps oil on top of engine when engine off - stops dry starts. Not sure how great it is 🤷♂️… Why does doing new cam and rollers get you more than the 70-110k miles like first time? Mine started at 130k. I am learning to late. My vehicle is not worth the repair - probably going to trade it in. Hoping chrysler discounts their crazy inventory soon.
Rockers were upgraded in 2020, and the newer design eliminates the problem. I feel that oil device is unnecessary. The problem is NOT dry starts, which were already not the problem. I have a whole video this. If oiling was the problem, all engines would behave the same, and they dont. More importantly, if oiling caused it, all rockers on that cam would get it at the same time, and they dont.
Would you say this is the tick? th-cam.com/users/shortsOIGSPGg74Ns?si=thT492n46NR1rvbb . I got error p0456 which is the Evap system not a cylinder misfire… yet. 2016 promaster 3500, 82000 miles
@@0FlightlessBird0 doesnt sound quite right. Put your hand on the evap pump that’s on the top of the engine, see if the sound is in sync with that. If not, then cut open a used oil fikter and look for metal.
Man- so knowledgable. I want to take my Jeep all the way to you just so you can fix it.
You are the Man!! Love your videos and I will continue to watch you for your knowledge and guidance! Got a 2018 / 3500 LOVE IT!! Got 254,000 on her. Pushing towards that 800,000 🎉🎉🎉
Another great video Kip! I'm touched!
Have a 2013 Wrangler JKU with a ticking noise, not sure if it's the ok tick or the bad tick. Will cut open the filter on the next oil change and see what's there. Great video!
@@ChromeForDays engine is identical, so everything applies.
What a stud! I want to bring my van there to get it all check up and keep it going for an other 200k
It has a down and dirty rhythm you can grow to love!
@@Babybugex tap tap tap…like me hitting your mom!
Great videos! And MCM vids. Just did rocker arms and lifter’s and the doorman cooler . Used the Melling stuff. So far so good ! Heres a good tip! don’t put your magnetic based harbor, freight work light near the reluctor wheels!! It will keep you busy working your way thru the alldata p0349 diagnostic tree!
@@ttony6538 Knew that! But i’m glad you posted it!
1st time seeing your vids but Got another follower here! Appreciate the information. Anyone in the comments have a shop do this repair recently and if so , how much did it run you! Thanks in advance!
Super common repair on any chrysler. Shops get between $1500-2400 depending on if it needs a cam/cams. The good news is its a one-time fix.
I liked you guys guitar playing!!!
News flash, my rocker’s started ticking last yr on my town and country. I drove very little before having it fixed. I knew of the problem with these engines and watched the procedure to do a complete repair. I’m getting too old to do that much of a tear down, wasn’t about to take to a dealership to have it done. I took it to a well known repair shop, they replaced all rockers and lifter’s and had to replace one camshaft ( so once you hear it ticking you better get it done immediately) also replaced spark plugs. All said and done 4700$, 3 yr 3600 mile warranty on their work. Happy with their work, they do a lot of these but I was in sticker shock. Also, my engine had about 150000 miles on it.
That's a big ticket, but it's done and that van will probably run till you are sick of driving it, or we all have jet packs.
@@promastersonly1419 tell me more about these jet packs, how many years out?
Thank you! oh & I got the finger fasteners for the fuse box, thanks for those too.
Would love it if you or the community could get a great recording of a non-ticking promaster and a ticking one. I imagine if you display the wave of the audio on a computer or phone, maybe it would be visible. I think individuals still incorrectly diagnose it or get worried. I have a 2019, fingers and nuts crossed.
That’s where cutting open the oil filter helps.
@@promastersonly1419 definitely doing that. If you get a chance to get decent audio of one with it for 1-2 minutes, send it over and I'll analyze it.
Kip, you're a precious fountain of knowledge that needs to be preserved!;
I'm a fountain of SOMETHING!
Such a great video! We just had flashing check engine light on our 2022 Ram Promaster 3500 (30,000 miles). Codes P0301 and P0302. Dealer changed two ignition coils (warranty) and we paid for two new spark plugs (they were fried). Drove away. Third day, got flashing check engine light again. Same code. P0303. Drove back to dealer. Now they are replacing the camshaft and associated parts. Hoping this doesn't happen again to the other camshaft. Guess Mopar didn't replace all the rockers in this model year, or the design problem still exists.
@@klgraf for 2022, the vans got the gen III version of the engine, which has been in other chryslers since around 2016 or so. Totally different intake rocker design, and though the exhaust is the same it has the post 2020 upgraded parts. Basically, the tick problem appears to be a thing of the past on the gen III engine. Your problem is super rare, and unrelated, and probably a one-off.
@@promastersonly1419 thank you! I hope this proves to be the case!
Lol I just asked a question on another video related to the tick but this one pretty well answers it. Thank you kindly for emptying your head I truly apreciate it.
@@0FlightlessBird0 i like my head to stay well emptied.
Great descriptive video, love the jokes as well. I bought 24 new 5184296AH rockers and 24 new 5184332AA lifters from Chrysler. I will replace those parts on my 2013 Charger next summer even though I don't think I have the tick yet and under the 100k miles.
@@svenhansen9618 if you have the skills, go for it. That charger will run forever.
Thanks for making videos on the ProMaster. I've watched a few today and it seems they are significantly better than I initially thought. Where do I get a "Free Candy Inside" sticker for one? My mom says hi. Time to go rub one off!
@@Hotdryandsunny they get worse as time goes by, I assure you! All is contained in the sticker video.
Love you man. Hope my new 2023 can make it past 200k and im a happy seal
Both the main pattern failures were addressed for the new engine in 2022, AND you have the 9 speed trans which appears to be much more reliable. I think you'll sail past 200k no sweat.
I literally did all these repairs to my 130k 2016 promaster in 2 months
Cat converter
4 coils
Rocker arms and intake manifold cover
Front axle
Front brakes and rotors (left caliper too)
Almost 8 thousand dollars later im praying nothing else will go wrong. Im a mechanical contractor and i got a 1500 long wheelbase and love the truck but the repairs put a dent in my wallet for sure.
@@mikerefrigeration5736 feel ya. Still, thats like 8 years of deferred maintenance.
@promastersonly1419 i agree. If it wasn't for the pentastar tick all that stuff would be considered matinence. It's just that the tick just happens to be at a time where regular matience is due.
Dude, Kip you’re awesome!
@@steveg3940 i agree!
Invaluable info as always. You're such a gift to the PM community Kip, thank you.
@@J.Radwan appreciate the compliments. Thanks.
So helpful! You are providing great information. We appreciate you!
Thanks. Happy to be of service.
Clearance Clarence
Roger, roger.
2017 Jeep Grand Cherokee died. I do regular oil changes. Had the transfer case replaced under warranty at under 50,000 miles. Had a wiring issue at under 60,000. Hood need to be repainted at around 73,000 miles. At 94,000 started seeing P0303, an occasionally rough idle and "Start Stop Not Available" pop up on the info screen. Changed the plugs and coil packs. Went for 2 - 3 weeks no issues except still felt a little rough idle and "Start Stop" message popping up. I was changing the front end components on my '06 Grand Caravan and my son needed a ride to work. I did notice the "Chrysler" tick. Jumped into the Jeep parked for all of 3 hours as I had done some errands. Push the brake push the ignition button and nothing! I had seen before that I did not 1) push the ignition properly or 2) applied the brake properly so I tried it again. Jump start nothing! The starter smoked out. I know where the starter is located so I decide to have my local mechanic do it. He change batteries no effect. He noticed the coolant reservoir was empty. He being a trust worthy mechanic would not do the $1500 starter job (NY prices) put a breaker bar on the engine and turned it. There was a pop when the starter disengaged the flywheel and he went around to about 360 and had to really pull to go further. As here in NY it would cost over $7,000 to do a head more if was discovered it was something else he suggested a new engine. I looked into the top of the cylinders while I was changing the plugs (which were clean just worn) so to me it is lower. Possibly a piston ring issue. So $10,000 I will get 3 years 100,000 miles from Chrysler and am going to do oil changes every 3,000 here out. I am questioning my Mopar man status as of late. my '06 3.8L just goes and goes.
Machines suck, it cant be argued. The pentastar tick (which is surely what you have/had) had to be crazy far gone to grenade the motor, and in fact it will pretty much not run or run so bad you won't be able to drive it. So I dont think your engine sieze was caused by the tick. If I had to take crazy guesses based on what you've told me, I could see the missing coolant being the real issue. A leak of any kind, coolant is gone, engine gets crazy hot and it soaks and is at it's hottest right after you shut it off. Come back, and the starter can't turn it because it's seized. That woudl be my guess. If you like, pull the oil filter and cut it open - you'll confirm that you had the tick by glitter in the filter. If the basic engine wont spin, it's hard to make a case to do anything but replace it. Good used engines are around $1000 - you wont get out of the machine shop for less than that, much less pay for the labor to rebuild it. The 3.8 is a good but not great engine, if you think about it. Durable, cheap to fix, but not very powerful or fuel efficient. For their few fatal flaws, the Pentastar is crazy durable. 500k no sweat. But...they dont tolerate overheat very well.
My Promaster has sounded like that since new. Asked a Mopar mechanic at 50k and he said that was the sound of the injectors 🤔But so far at 77k miles, no engine light or code. Glad to hear that once you get the misfire code, you have some miles before it's bad bad. Thanks for the great video! And that there's a not too crazy fix that'll last the lifetime of the vehicle. Been seeing some friends apparently needing engine swaps lately on their 2022+ vans - scary!
What year is your van?
It's hard to record, but light valve chatter is completely normal. A single regular "whack" of a tick isn't.
@@promastersonly1419 Do you think the variable valve lifters chatter more in the 2022+ engines causing people to think they have a tick when they don't?
@@CPRebels21 Probably not. Absent a symptom like a misfire, the VVL system will sound the same on day one as at 100k, so people would be unlikely to think there's a problem.
@@promastersonly1419 Sorry my point wasn't clear, there are a lot of people who think their 2022+ vans have a tick the day they get it at the lot or with very low miles (less than 10k). So is it just a noisy engine or paranoid people?
great vid. youve been a huge help with other issues too. thx again
Really appreciate all the info on all the topics and also all the jokes. My question is: Why wait to replace the lifters & the camshaft until the computer spits out a misfire code, and why not replace the lifters & the camshaft when you begin to hear the ticking? If there's metal in the filter and a stethoscope leads you to locate the tick to the valve cover, wouldn't it be better to take care of it right off and not worry about it again?
Yes, your thinking is good. But I like people not to freak out or panic, since from the onset of the misfire you still have many miles.
Another factor: we’ve seen cases where a sloppy lifter causes a tick sound, but zero other issues, so I prefer to confirm by seeing metal in the filter.
But yeah - caught early you are going to likely save yourself the cost of a cam, and if you let the misfire go for long enough you risk burning out the cat on that bank, as the unburned fuel raises the cat temp.
@@promastersonly1419 Hi Kip!
I have a 2016 Promaster 2500 and with 116k I just replaced the rockers/lifters/right intake cam. I followed your instructions exactly for the cooler housing/disassembly (and followed MCM’s instructions for replacing the rockers). Upon starting the van after everything was reassembled I heard a brief louder than normal revving almost as if the muffler were disconnected and then it snapped back into a quiet normal engine hum. I also received these 8 error codes:
P0123 Throttle/Pedal Position Sensor 'A' Circuit High.”
P0013 problem with the "B" Camshaft Position Actuator Circuit (Bank 1)
P0023 PCM) or engine control module (ECM) has detected an issue with the camshaft “B” position actuator circuit in bank 2
P0010 a problem with the "A" camshaft position actuator circuit in a vehicle
P0020 bank 2 intake camshaft is not synchronized with the oil control valve.
P0113 indicates a problem with the intake air temperature (IAT) sensor or its circuit in a vehicle
P0108 Manifold Absolute Pressure Sensor Circuit High
P0222 low input in the throttle/pedal position sensor/switch "B" circuit
Do you have any ideas for how I should proceed? I’m scared to turn it on again, and all I can think of is disconnecting everything and reseating all the connections or spraying contact cleaner.
Thanks for all your help,
Cris
@@crispezoa all those codes are things that get disturbed when you do the rockers. Stuff just isnt getting plugged back in fully.
@@crispezoa however, if someone keyed the ignition on when it was apart, it would generate all those codes. Clear them, restart it, see what returns.
@@promastersonly1419 wow you are so smart! My dumb ass thought I needed to put it into neutral to turn the crankshaft manually so I did key the ignition to the on position to do that. Now I get all 8 codes as “permanent” so I assume I just have to wait a number of cycles for it to clear them, but p0023 and p0020 came back as pending so maybe there is something wrong with my connections after all…
Thank kip
I need to bring my van to you. Yep have p0302 and I changed coins and plugs. At 92k. Bob 😢
Send me an email at promastersonly@gmail.com
Great video. Thanks
So, anticipated installation cost for 24 rockers & lifters sans cams?
You the man . Had my tic issue fixed by the dealer, new cam as well . Also had them install the doorman oil housing. At about 140,000 miles about 8 months ago . 😢cost me $5,000 2 year warranty on work. sounds like I won’t have to worry ever again. Drove to California and back to Cincinnati no problem. Kip do you think they use the newer cam, post 2019 my van is a 2017 ? Also I’d be willing to drive 3 hours just to have you work on my van I think it’s time for new struts, shocks , bushings, bearings, hubs, etc. I’ve done some pretty cool conversions. Perhaps it might even make it in on of your vids . Guess I could stay a few days and explore the area. Would love to coordinate a time on your schedule of course that you could do the work. Sorry to ramble on . Sure could use some tip time and love 😂 promaster ❤ that is .
They would have had to install the AH rockers, only because where would they get the older stuff? So yeah, you will be unlikely to have to worry about the basic motor. Lots of stuff will go wrong, but the rockers and the oil cooler addresses 90% of the issues. I'm pretty busy, but send me an email to promastersonly@gmail.com
@@promastersonly1419 ok thanks
Thanks for sharing, great info!
Off the subject question, I purchased two 5 qt containers of Penzoil ultra platinum 5-20w but one arrived as 5-30. Amazon at its best! As these pro masters are finicky on oil, I assume it is ok to add 1 qt of the 5-30 to top off the oil change with using the 5qt 5-20. Don’t want to wait another week for the exchange but if needed I shall. Great videos as always.
Thanks
5w-30 will work just fine, though the extra viscosity isn't really necessary. But it will be fine.
Thanks Kip, I was about to change my transmission fluid and I went under to spray some WD on the bolts and saw what looked like a quick seal job on the side of the pan. Looks like they put concrete on the side. Was going to send a pick to see if I have a potential headache but no way to send in TH-cam. Bought the van a year ago, 2019 2500. Might just have to use the pump to change what I can without changing the filter until a decision is made. Thanks again and I think the KipU will produce great content
@@GreenMonkiCoffee2008 From the factory, the pans are sealed with RTV, which is neatly applied by robots. After a pan drop and drain, shops go back with RTV applied by hand, and it can look messy but that's the way it's done. I prefer to use a gasket, but there's nothing wrong with using RTV, either black or grey. BTW: you wont be able to get a tube deep enough into the pan through the dipstick tube on the trans. Works for oil, but not trans. Pan drop, filter, refill. I have videos on it.
I crossed the Canadian border this spring. Border control agent asked me if i had a tic because he said he saw one in me. He thought I was nervous and hiding something so he made up the tic story. Maybe I should have said "yea, cylinder no. 1"
What an ass.
You’re a great guy
thanks! I think so too!
Thanks for sharing your expertise! 2023 2500 camper w 25K. At what point would you upgrade to the Dorman Oil Cooler, the Water Pump Outlet Tube and service trans - 948TE? I'll happily make the trip from South Jersey.
You are unlikely to get the tick, because 2023 engines are somewhat different, and will have the upgraded rockers from new anyway. The oil cooler is the same with the same propensity to leak, but I would wait till it leaks to worry about it. Your 9 speed trans is very different from the older one, and filled with a lifetime fluid and filter. I would consider changing the fluid at 200k, but not before.
Hysterical !!!
Hi there,
I owned Ram Promaster 1500... with 145k miles... which generete pretty small ticking noise.
I am in Los Angeles area... Do you have any suggestions?
Thanks, Steve
Ram Hemi engines had a tick issue due to the rollers as well. High idle times (service vehicles) and infrequent oil changes were supposed contributors to needle bearing failures. We just bought a new ProMaster so hopefully the bugs are worked out. Any thoughts on the “ new” nine speed transmission that the ProMaster now uses?
The Hemi tick is a thing but has a different cause. Yes, the new 9 speed appears by all reports to be way more reliable than the older 6 speed.
Is it a safe bet that the metal particles as described in the filter would show up in a Blackstone-type oil analysis?
Absolutlely. But something I forgot to put in the video; generally the filter gets all of it, so even if it has the tick that doesn't really damage the bearings. Often though, if it's had the tick for a long time the misfires may take out a cat on that bank, P0420 or P0430.
My van has 250.000 not sure if anything has been done. I bought it with 230.000 miles. It only misfires when driving on highway and I go over 5.000 RPM. I have to let it down below to get back to normal. But as long I keep it below 5k rpm it is fine. Coils/sparkplugs or it is job for you rockers and cam? 😂
@@KninskaKapija High rpm miss would be ignition. A compression problem like the tick is more prevalent at low rpm. 6th gear, trying to accelerate.
Mine 2016 just started at 64k miles
Does idling the engine cause, enhance or otherwise promote the occurrence of the worn rockers?
@@bvanman idling doesnt affect it. One of my early videos explains exactly why it doesnt.
Dam, ive got the glitter but no tic, guess it's a race against the tic-ing clock
A small amount of glitter per oil change is, believe it or not, more or less normal. But without a symptom like a code or rough running, you wouldn't necessarily do anything even if you found a smoked turkey in the oil filter.
@@promastersonly1419after that oil change, we just did over 45 hours of driving through the mountains in BC Canada, and not a flinch thru all of it. 13.8 L per 100km
My wifes 2018 Grand Cherokee 3.6 liter at 98k miles is throwing a P0305 misfire code but only if the engine is taken to near redline like pedal to the floor. If I reset the the misfire code the code may not happen again for weeks with normal driving. But the code will come on again if the engine goes up to, or near redline RPM. No obvious ticking using penzoil platinum 0w-20 the engine has never had a tuneup. Please advise, thanks.
The GC by 2018 had the newer version of the engine which doesn't seem to suffer from the tick. But a compression related misfire (like the tick) would be more prominent at high load, low speed use. As opposed to your high rpm miss. My guess would be you have an arcing coil boot, or something else ignition related. It's due for plugs at 100k anyway, so throw in a coil and boot on #5 and see if it goes away.
How do I know if my 2019 has the revised needle bearings or not?
It's in the video. I don't think you can know for certain.
My engine on my 2021 just blew a rod at 16,000 miles. They said it will only be warrenty under the original warrenty when they replace it? Why would this happen? The whole point of me spending 40k on a van is to get around maintenance.
For an engine to just blow a rod like that with so few miles, the only conclusion you can really come to is either that particular rod was defective from new, or something else (crank, wrist pin, etc) was defective from new. Extremely rare, but they make close to 1 million of these engine a year and it's statistics that rare problems will happen. However, that's exactly what the warranty is for!
So when I replace the oil cooler, should I repalce the plastic lower intake manifold with an aluminum intake ? My reasoning it would help with the oil cooling by transferring heat from the oil cooler. My pentastar runs hot ( for me) . It's probably a non issue but since Im there why not ? Opinions please
Good thinking, but probably not. The oil cooler isnt actually a cooler, it’s an oil warmer. It’s there to get the oil up to temp quicker, and to tie it to water temp. This is because the engine timing is based on oil viscosity, and they want it as consistent as possible.
I’m about to test the aluminum lower, but I’m unsure if i should recommend it to my customers. There’s zero issues with the plastic ones. They dont leak, fail, or break and they are generic to all the pentastars so if you need one they are dirt cheap.
@promastersonly1419 I really appreciate the reply, and the sound advice ! I'm like you, a long time Chrysler fan. And while the pentastar engine isn't perfect, it's still a great engine! Thanks again
Got a question for you. Got the flashing engine light(no previous history of engine light or codes) and cylinder 5 misfire code while traveling through Wyoming. Van struggles to move when I give it gas and engine dies within 10-20 seconds when left in idle. Stopped at a local shop, changed plug and coil but no change. checked compression and 1 & 3 have 120psi, but 5 has zero psi. Can definitely hear the loud tick coming from engine. Got an estimate from the shop today and they quoted $8500 to replace the rocker arms and lifters and says they can't guarantee anything until they open it up, what they recommend is to put in a used 100K mile engine for $9600. Van is still in Wyoming while I'm back home in California so trying to deal with the shop over the phone and it's difficult to get anything done.
Do you think replacing the rocker arms will fix the issue? or is my engine toast and will I be better off swapping the engine?
Tough one, because it will be difficult to get information out of the shop. What I would do is request a leakdown test for #5. This is where they put say 100psi of air into #5, and see where the compression is going. Sound out the intake, intake valve. Sound out the tailpipe, exhaust valve. Sound out the dipstick, ring piston or cylinder wall. That test tells you what to do next, because if the rings are shot it's a motor. What you are describing is not the usual pentastar tick stuff, where the rocker fails. My guess is a valve has failed. That tick is the remnants of that valve getting bashed by the piston. They could confirm this easily with a camera down #5 plug hole - my guess is you'd see carnage. If so, then yeah it's motor time. Other factors: replacing the rockers for $8500 is 4x more than the job normally goes for, but $9600 for a used engine is maybe $2000 more that it would normally cost. Conclusion: it's in the wrong shop. California is usually pretty expensive, but the cost to ship it home is probably less than the difference if you can get it to a more reasonable shop close to home. Find out by getting a quote from Garcias Auto Transport. I've used them in the past and they are reasonable.
@@promastersonly1419 Thanks for your insight. I guess bringing the van home is the first priority. Surprised this engine kicked the dust as it only has 60000 miles on it, although it is a 2014.
@@promastersonly1419 So I finally got the van back in California. Towed it to a local shop and had them run scope and leak down test. Says 100% leak and it's leaking to the intake, scope doesn't show any damage, nothing wrong on the piston. Recommends replacing the cylinder head for $5K(Price seem inline?). I asked around few other shops and majority of them says they'll never replace just the head on this motor saying other problems will pop up afterwards, so that's certainly concerning. What do you think are the chances that it's something broken in the valve train? Could seized lifter/rocker arm/bad cam lobe cause a intake valve to stay stuck open?
@@user-kl5qi2wh4o a leaky #5 intake valve could be caused by the valve itself, or caused by something wonky with the rocker or lifter. The good news is that if they pull the intake, and pull the cam sensor, they should be able to get a camera into the sensor hole such that they can see both #5 intake valvetrain bits. The same camera may be able to get into the spark plug hole and inspect the valves themselves. This diag will give you 100% conf where the problem lies. If its not the valves themselves, its not the head and savings will be huge. $5000 is plausible because to get the rear head off you have to pull the timing cover, and thats a bitch with it in the van. It can be done, but I personally would pull the engine.
@@promastersonly1419 Hey Kip. I ended up opening it up myself tonight. Turns out I have a broken valve spring on cylinder 5. Made a new post about it on Promaster forums. Is this something auto shop can repair fairly easily?
Can you pls tell me after taking valve cover off what is the especially tool on Amazon for 18$
Search for 3.6 pentastar cam tool and you should find it. 5 black plastic pieces and a grenade pin.
@promastersonly1419 appreciate it boss
I hope it’s ok I ask u a technical question. My 2017 cooling fans failed and overheated blowing a hole in the thermostat housing. Any advise where to look for problems? It has loss of power lags to accelerate and sometimes the engine shakes, not hearing the tick though
We've seen that thermostat pin through the housing thing several times. Dorman sells an aluminum upgrade housing that's cheaper than the plastic. These engines are robust, but they dont tolerate overheat very well. I could think of a lot of things that can happen when they get really hot. I'd be looking for evidence of head gasket failure (like if the inside of the coolant bottle smells like exhaust) or possibly a melted lower intake manifold. I have a video showing what that looks like - search "Van Detective" to find it.
Ok I’ll look that vid up. Thanks dude, I really appreciate it.
Where is my Promaster! 😂
Yes sir
So my 2025 grand Cherokee pentistar v6 shouldn't have this problem someday?
@@Broncofan-4life Possible, but far less likely. Yours is a gen 3 pentastar, with very different (and so far durable) intake rockers. The exhaust rockers are the same, but yours already has the upgraded parts in it.
@promastersonly1419 thanks, makes me feel better, still worried about the oil filter assembly leaking someday, or did they do something about that also?
@ the cooler assembly is the same, thus the dorman still solves the problem. Chrysler released better seals for it around 2021, but i believe it will still leak eventually. I wouldnt worry about it till maybe 150k or more.
@promastersonly1419 thanks
fckn aewsome stuff muuawa
I have a 2017 with 96k
2018 65k
2018 110k
Should I do something proactive or wait?
The tick job is a big piece of surgery, so I would wait until you have a reason not to wait. But what you can do is cut open the used oil filters every oil change, or every other oil change. That will give you some warning.
That’s and awesome idea
Well cut my first oil filter open on 97k 2017. I assume we are looking at the outer part of the filter . I saw some sparkling pieces scattered around not too many . I say about 1 or 2 sparkle per 2 sq inch How much is considered time to tear it apart?
@@joebama6945 That's probably not enough to declare that the rocker needle bearings are coming apart. It's super obvious, with every pleat of the filter packed with glitter and black burnt oil.
Historically, the tick comes on around 110k, so it's likely your 97k is too soon or wont happen at all.
The tick is caused by too long betwix oil changes. Every 3-5K.
DO NOT do what the owners manual says. Trans-Transfer-Diffs
all every 30K.
!
Crazy extended oil changes will cause sludge and other issues, but the tick itself is not caused by oil. I have a whole video on this. Search my vids for "causes" and you'll find it. Neither oil, nor idling cause the tick and while I can't 100% prove that, I can provide a mountain of evidence that it's true.
Very deeawteeaw!
No tip no touching 😂😂😂😂
It's not cheating, its just the tip!
So is my 2022 for all intensive purposes safe?
@@jrod332 yes. Your 2022-up has different intake hardware, and already has upgraded exhaust rockers. So far, the tick isnt a thing on those newer engines.
@@promastersonly1419 I've got a 2021. Will the type of oil help prevent/delay the tick? Thanks.
Super useful info. Especially that I have to stay within 20k miles of Barberton, OH.
All intents. And purposes.
@@nahornig Thanks
Heard there is a pentastar preventative oil filter located kit - instals where oil filter goes - keeps oil on top of engine when engine off - stops dry starts. Not sure how great it is 🤷♂️…
Why does doing new cam and rollers get you more than the 70-110k miles like first time?
Mine started at 130k. I am learning to late. My vehicle is not worth the repair - probably going to trade it in. Hoping chrysler discounts their crazy inventory soon.
Rockers were upgraded in 2020, and the newer design eliminates the problem.
I feel that oil device is unnecessary. The problem is NOT dry starts, which were already not the problem. I have a whole video this. If oiling was the problem, all engines would behave the same, and they dont. More importantly, if oiling caused it, all rockers on that cam would get it at the same time, and they dont.
@@promastersonly1419 very logical. Going to check out you other vid!
👈
Wondering how you can get several hundred thousand mile out of an engine in a vehicle that rusts into the ground @ 100-150k.
Good question. Look up some of videos titled Tour of a High mileage van and see just how much rust there is at 837,000 miles! You'll love it!
Would you say this is the tick? th-cam.com/users/shortsOIGSPGg74Ns?si=thT492n46NR1rvbb . I got error p0456 which is the Evap system not a cylinder misfire… yet. 2016 promaster 3500, 82000 miles
@@0FlightlessBird0 doesnt sound quite right. Put your hand on the evap pump that’s on the top of the engine, see if the sound is in sync with that. If not, then cut open a used oil fikter and look for metal.
NSFW! :)
@@nahornig NSFW depends on your work!
Pentajunk.