Rewriting the Mass was a huge mistake. I live Mass with the SSPX in Manhattan. I honestly believe we need to go back to the pre-55. ¿What do you think Kennedy? I don't hear this spoken about in the SSPX. Bunnini started messing with the Mass since 1955.
When I attended my first Catholic Mass 2 years ago, before becoming Catholic, I was amazed by how the rubrics of the Catholic Novus Ordo and the Anglican Liturgy were almost identical. Once I attended the TLM at our parish, it became clear just how Protestant the design of the NO really is. Becoming Catholic is still the best decision I have ever made as a cradle Anglican.
@@MN-nr8bq if you’re interested, Michael Davies wrote a trilogy called the liturgical revolution sense passed on but he covers all aspects of the revolution from the protestant under Cranmer until the 1950s before the second Vatican council under Bunnini revision of the mass. Yves Chairon call Book about Annabel Bunnini I believe it’s called the reformer of the liturgy. I don’t have it, but plan on getting it.
Praying the Rosary together brings trad and modern people together. It is 20 minutes of taking turns speaking, that is, praying aloud, and not arguing.
I have been studying what happened since the '60s and i am very upset. I have a hard time even attending my NO parish anymore. Once you see the problems you just cant unsee them, there are so many. The big thing right now is the CONSTANT talk of "how do we get Catholics to believe in the real presence?" Seriously? Shitcan Vatican 2 entirely and go back to before. Why? Its easy....the TLM was, which evolved over centuries, was created be people that truly believed that God is in that tabernacle! Conversely, the NO, which seems to have been sloppily formed over night, was created by free mason with the help of protestants, neither believe in the real presence. AND IT SHOWS!
I'm with you 100%, I've been going to the TLM almost 4 years and I cannot go back. The "Eucharistic Revival" is ridiculous - doing the same thing and expecting different results. Michael Davies noted that EVERY SINGLE act of reverence to our Lord in the Eucharistic was removed after VII.
Kennedy, you provide a constant stream of excellent and informative podcasts, some of the best I have found on the Internet. Your long podcast on "Extra ecclesiam nulla salus" was the best I've ever heard, as well as the most thought-provoking. You have found your métier! Please keep all this coming. God bless you and your growing family!
That traditional Catholics and conservatives getting along is a pipe dream-this is so true. I have tried so hard. And oddly enough, the pushback comes not from traditionalists but from conservatives. They speak about the church being charitable in its ecumenism-but that charity doesn’t apply to tradition. I was raised conservative but discovered tradition in 2020. But my conservative circles simply look at tradition as a leper colony-all the while proclaiming love and charity for all. Meanwhile, over at tradition, they’re (I should myself included) have been trying so hard to reach out and connect.
Christ's truth cannot change!!! We, the laity need to change to fit the faith & tradition taught from the beginning!!! As a convert of 36 yrs, I came into the Church after the Vatican II's changes. I did what you did, Kennedy, I started researching and digging until I found the true tradition of the Church and will never leave! Being around the SSPX priests & Mass felt like I was home! God bless!
I attend a NO, and I'll be the first to tell you that Vatican II as a Council is going to have to be revisited at some point; especially in light of the INTENTIONS by some, but not all, of the actors involved in drafting those documents. It was drafted in a particular way for a particular ends - that much is pretty clear.
God can still provide abundant actual graces to help people through such circumstances. I grew up in a “moderately reverent” Novus Ordo diocese and had a lifelong craving for deeper worship that ultimately led over about 20 years to me finally finding the Traditional-Apostolic Roman Mass. I didn’t know it still existed for two decades, but I had an unquenchable sense that there had to be more and better than the “moderately reverent” Novus Ordo Mass I was feeling “stuck” with. There was NO Latin Mass near where I lived for 18 or so of those years, and I wasn’t that involved on TH-cam or social media, so I didn’t find out the Latin Mass even still existed until I stumbled upon a blog that mentioned it.
In my area Novos Ordo has been the only option for a very long time. I would have to drive 15 hours to reach a traditional Mass. I am 51 years old and I've never seen one. I hope things change in my lifetime.
Better to drive fifteen hours once a year reserve a room once a Year for your Easter duty than to comitt mortal sin attending doubtful sacraments in Novus Ordo. God will bless you for your perseverance.
The assumption is you live in the US.... If yes, I can confirm there are some TLM drought regions in the US but you should be able to do much better than 15hrs drive time, or do you mean 15hrs for the round trip? If you get online and search TLM websites (perhaps you have), I think you can do much better. I've been able to locate TLMs in places where I thought there were none. But also, given the current state of some Bishops' attempts to shut it down, some are not advertised - 2 options in my region fall into that category. You have to ask around.
@rpmgrlca That's rough. I'm in Canada too, and am fortunate enough to have an SSPX (30 minutes) FSSP (60 minutes) and diocesan TLM (90 minutes) available to me. But when I went searching for what was available, I saw how many places in Canada just have literally zero accessible options. And with the cost of living crisis we have going on, an extra few hundred dollars in gas and potentially a hotel room is just out of the realm of possibilities. Prayers that something becomes available closer to you and/or that this spiraling economy turns around so that traveling becomes an option again.
In all due charity, a 'Conservative Catholic' is just a far-right-of-center neo-modernist. We need to pray they leave the false church of the 'Novus Ordo,' the religion of modernism. 'The new Ordo was promulgated to take the place of the old.' - Allocution to the Consistory of May 24, 1976, Paul VI.
There are many problems there. Most people here love it - they were educated to love it. I came to christianity as a convert so I am not attached to it. I see many problems. Ambiguity of IIVC is what allows Francis´ weaponized ambiguity. I am sure there will be new Trent ahead to clear all the confusion up. Unless it´s beginning of apocalypse and there is no betterment ahead just great apostasy. Ambiguity of it lead to the changes which completely contradicted it - like liturgical reform and others ... and everyone just adopted it. Now we have spirit of VII and it´s not wrong name since it´s spirit of confusion and weaponized ambiguity. If it´s not the beginning of the apocalyps there will be Trent ahead of us one day to bring back clarity which now is missing.
Thank you for saying this, Kennedy! I have grappled w this same Irksome thought for a few years, and it can get me quite riled up w anger. Cognitive dissonance and wondering if I was the Crazy one for wanting to adhere to Tradition. I now KNOW that it is only the Devil who wants to poke at, make fun of, get you to question God's Greatest Gift of Scripture and Tradition. Inside Holy Mother Church resides All Treasure!!
Thank you, Kennedy for this insightful commentary on the different points of view between Conservative Catholics and what you identify as Traditional Catholic views. I now understand that I have been on a journey from being raised in a Modernist mindset when I was young, to embracing Conservative views as I began diving deeper into my faith when I became a father, and now find myself aligned with the more Traditional viewpoints you, Tim Flanders and Dr Taylor express in your videos. I wouldn’t be the Catholic that I am today if I hadn’t gone through that journey and reflected on why that journey was necessary. I pray for all Catholics to be reconciled first within the faith and then some day with our separated brothers and sisters in Christ.
I'm the oldest of 10 kids. My parents, who are gen x, are one of 8 and one of 12. Conservative catholics their whole lives. Raised us conservative catholic. I didn't even know what a Latin mass was until my 20s. My parents still don't really know what it is, have never been to one, and don't even have access to one if they wanted to go. Now that I am going to the Latin mass, I don't really see the difference between conservative catholics and traditional catholics. We all home school, pray the rosary, none of us like Francis, we all hate feminism, birth control, and modernism. To be honest, I always thought the terms were interchangeable.
The issue is the heresy of modernism. Traditionalists reject modernism, conservatives do not. Both can love the TLM. Both can reject birth control, embrace large families and embrace the salt of the earth lifestyle. Looking into the actual heresy of modernism, that is where the differences become apparent.
@@poorbanishedchildrenofEve conservative catholics don't reject it or accept it. If you asked them what their stance is on it, they would have no idea what you are talking about. Most of them are under the impression that the NO mass is just the English version of the TLM and don't consider that their priest might be leading them astray. They have no idea that sacraments were changed or that fasting requirements changed. They're very faithful in a very uninformed way and if you told them what modernism is, most of them would reject it. I only just learned what the heresy of modernism is earlier this year and I'm still trying to learn how to implement that knowledge in my life. I don't even fully understand it yet. The thought that the average conservative catholic would be hostile towards tradition if they knew more about it is just silly. It's not hostility towards tradition or a preference for modernism. It's simply just a lack of even knowing what modernism is. You can't blame people for what they don't know.
@@larstiranos I don't really know what that would look like. Where I grew up (where my parents live) there are 5 catholic churches they can go to within an hour of where they live. They are all pretty liberal. Nothing the lay people can do about that. My parents are both in their early 50s and just learning about the traditional church. They are trying to implement that into their personal lives at least. That's the way I see it going with most conservative catholics I know. The more they learn, the better they try to be. That's why I don't believe that most traditionalists and most conservatives are opposed. Traditionalism is the logical conclusion of conservatism so we're all on the same path, just at different stages. I got introduced to traditionalism when my convert husband had questions that RCIA couldn't answer satisfactorily so I turned to Google and TH-cam. I discovered Taylor Marshall and went down a deep rabbit hole. I sent videos to my mom and she and my dad got into it too. We're learning how much we just didn't know about.
I think when you just see average conservative or traditionalist Catholics who are doing their best to catechise themselves and their children and live the faith properly to the best of their knowledge and with the best intentions, you don't see a lot of actual differences between many of the people themselves. BUT when you look into the two "camps" that's where you start to see the disagreements over the particulars in things like Vatican II and the limits of Papal authority. That's where you start to see some real clashing and battling of ideas. I've heard that it was similar in the early years of the Catholic/Orthodox split. There were these big heated theological debates and disagreements, and there were plenty of lay people who were right in that fight, but a lot of average families were just going to Mass and doing their best and you couldn't really tell the difference between an Eastern Orthodox and an Eastern Catholic unless you knew the specific theological questions to ask - assuming they even had an answer to that question...some only became Orthodox or stayed Catholic by accident of location dictating which one they had access to.
We were lied to and poorly catechized, me since 1968. NO Lukewarm Catholic, changed it up in 2020. They just tell you you can’t attend TLM, it’s still going on.
Truth and error cannot coexist!! Ab. Lefebvre echoed what has always been taught all the way from our Founder, Jesus Christ the King+ Excellent report Mr. Kennedy!! VIVAT CHRISTUS REX+
I just attended a novus mass on Thanksgiving and it was horrible. Not because of many errors, except for all the sheep getting communion on the hand, but because the choir was so beautiful and loud it was as if I was at a concert . The type of music was probably modern- I did notice one tune sounded like one of the songs from dirty dancing 🫣😂 - there was no meditation and no peace. It is hard to explain but it wasn’t very efficacious at all
We moved and it is now 2 hours to our TLM parish and an hour to the nearest TLM mass. We usually drive and offer up the time, but we did try a few of the local novus masses and yes, they are horrible. Both because the lack of respect for the real presence and the way people act/dress in our Lord's house.
@@rpmgrlca it was!! I don’t want to sound uncharitable but it was so very distracting and that mass is already distracting enough so they top it off with a lot of noises singing and a woman as reader to boot!
Yes, I've experienced the feeling of being at a concert at the NO and it is so irreverent. However, the last few times I've attended a Latin Mass, I felt like I was at a social event in an auditorium due to the constant chattering of children. I'm happy to have so many children at Mass, but it was also distracting and far from quiet or peaceful. I'm not sure much can be done, and it's certainly better than loud band music, but I can't relate when people describe the TLM as peaceful and reverent, as that has not been my experience.
@@lellachu1682 that’s a shame. I am very blessed that we do have a Latin mass offered nearby. Aside from the occasional baby crying that has not been my experience at all and that choir is magnificent but it is also only scheduled once a month.
One big problem is that Original Sin, and all that comes with it, are forgotten, and that suffering and struggle are intrinsic to the authentic living of the faith. Everyone, including parents, is trying to shield people from it. IT’S FAILING BADLY. Returning to reality is the only way to solve this.
Hi Kennedy, any chance you could do some podcasts of just reading the bigger /more important orthodox papal encyclicals? Such as Pascendi, Divini Redemptoris etc... Its hard to find audio copies of them and it's not easy to find time to sit down and read them. Much appreciated, thank you for all your work! God bless!
I can provide some anecdotal insight on a "traditionalist" that went to the new Mass. In my case it was due to a lot of independent study combined with a love of older devotions and Latin as a language. Everything I had learned about the Mass on my own emphasized its sacrificial nature, and I shoe-horned that into how I saw the new Mass. However, even then I would have preferred the traditional Mass, but I didn't have access to it.
Conservaitive all my life. By the grace of God grew into traditional. Conservative and Traditional is not the same. Traditional by nature is conservative . Truth has its boundries. Foolishness knows no limit! .Conservative is by nature slow creeping moral relevancy. Traditional= truth is truth always, liberating certian good an life giving. Conservative = truth is pragmatic and useful most of the time some of the time part of the time and an impediment to pragmatism in difficult situations. Traditional is always conservative.! Consavative is sometimes traditional !
There is a phrased used a lot, "Traditional and Conservative" and then when you check their value they are no way even close to being the area of Traditional and Conservative. I think people have a big misunderstanding what Traditional and Conservative is and they believe they are...
No. Conclusions are the reflections of one's assumptions. The Christ taught let "your yes be yes and your no be no" so-as-to avoid or sanction casuistry fostering ambiguity. ❤
My experience with conservatives still going to NO parishes is that it is convenient and a habit which they are not willing to make the effort to change. They’re comfortable with being blind to what is happening because it is the easiest path. Making the effort to educate themselves and taking the step towards truth and tradition means leaving the sheep/flock that’s following the wrong shepherd. As a SSPX parish member I can attest to the frustration in trying to help my own family see the errors in NO mass and they have pretty much stopped going to mass all together instead of making the change.
"Then I saw the fifth angel sounded, and a star(prelate) fell from heaven, to him was given the KEYS to the bottomless pit and smoke arose out of the bottomless pit like that of a great furnace and the sun (represents the light of Christ's teaching) was darkened because of the smoke that arose out of the bottomless pit" revelation nine. Fr wolf's commentary based on church fathers is the star that fell was paul 6th and the second vatican council was the smoke from the abyss and or saint Paul's "operation of error" "In those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon won't give her light" - Jesus matthew 24. Augustine says this is the terrible state of the church near the end where the light of christ isn't preached and the visibility of the true church is seemingly diminished.
Thanks for this podcast Kennedy. I've been listening to your podcasts the past few months and you have mentioned that you read your way to the SSPX. What books, etc. did you read that helped you realize why the Norvus Ordo is lacking?
Needs to be discussed more because as Kennedy highlights there is a major discrepancies between the deposit of the faith cincepts and practices between the modern N.O conservative Catholics and Traditional Latin praying Catholics. Apparently both Catholics but seems conservative feel entitlted to badger the Traditional. But lets be up front that this has come.from the top in example ultimately.
Growing up in the Novus Ordo. As I became a traditionalist, I read the documents of VII. After doing so, I could not see the heresy in it. The traditionalists had to lay out, this is what the Church used to teach and say, and this is what is in the documents of VII. As an online debater when it was first proven to me that VII was indeed heretical. I remained silent and stopped trying to defend VII for about 6 months before I took up the traditional position that VII is indeed heretical. I do think personality type plays a roll in a persons ability to process and comprehend complex ideas. Many personality types cannot think outside the tribal box they are in. As an INFJ not only have I always studied every point of view and argument from every tribe. If you put forth a good argument and prove me wrong. I will say, you have a good point, I was mistaken, and move on. I think INTJs hate to be proven wrong! There is spent costs to be in any tribe and a cost to putting aside being a cheering fan for your own tribe, and there is a cost to switching tribes. So the attachment ends up going to the tribe rather then correct Catholic theology or exegesis.
I have searched and grown in my understanding of church liturgy, and just sharing what i have found to be delightful has triggered and stirred the pot of my N.O. friends. They become defensive, abusive, and angry and closed to discussion. They will accept all maanner of liturgicaal changes and abuses but are super quick to point fingers and call SSPX schismatics without and evidence or acknowledgment that SSPX is the continuation of Catholic faith expression without any changes despite the mainstream church's adoption of many modern erros since vatican 2 council. Its disturbing to see how blind so many mainstream Catholics are to their church's true history and tradition. I might add that these people hold tight to marian apparitions rhat warn us of these changes but dont see the changes as having taken place in pir lifetime and we have been basocally the recipients of neglect in the passing down of the faith. The great apostasy we all expecting to be revealed in is primed and prepared to be receieved by these modern blind N.O loving Catholics.
With the "errors" in the Miraculous Medals and how they were made and now hearing about white plastic satanic rosaries - with no INRI and a sun on the Cross - how do we safely and discreetly get rid of these things? I got rid of the Medals, and have no rosaries - just heard about them. Thanks! God bless...
All documents of council were signed in formal magisterial sense by Paul VI. His later letter about "pastoral only" is moot and deflection; he also insisted on following his interpretations, for LeFebvre and everyone else. So are his many comments on how to interpret V II valid interpretations, or is he an invalid pope? What helps is to realize that we must interpret documents as popes do. The men claiming to be popes since 1958 have given us the interpretations and those are not in line with the past.
Kennedy can you give me your opinion of the Eucharistic Revival? My heart can't seem to accept that this is Catholic. Also is it acceptable to have Jesus exposed on the Altar in the church in a Monstrance when we have multiple priest offering Reconciliation, also in the Church for a large group of people? Also.. can items be sold in the back of the church..not in the foyer but in the Church, itself! These things just don't feel right. Can I have your opinion, obviously it's okay with the priest, so I don't need to ask him. Confussed, and hurting..please help. Thank you.
I don’t see trad or conservative only Catholic and Non Catholic. We have to be careful, in holding too tight to writings of intellectuals, that we are no longer Catholics, but legalist. No different than the keepers of the Law to the rejection of GOD standing before them. I do follow a lot of trad or conservative content, really mostly from novis converts to the faith, who went to school. As a cradle Catholic it is a part of me and I am not in need of too much writings, but I am always learning. When JESUS returns, will He find us Loving GOD, and Loving our neighbors? We have the words of the the utmost authority already. And He made it simple, but not easy to live the faith. “Love one another as I have Loved You.” Who’s writings are smarter than this?
It seems that the current mass is not adequate protection for the faithful, so both restoration and reform are needed. The 1970 missal can be replaced with something better, just as many different rites of the church have been replaced throughout the history of the church. What if the solution is not to go back to the older missals, but instead to move forward into a new Roman rite that brings back the prayers of the old rites that we so desperately need and adds new prayers specifically suited to combating the evil that is modernism as it has manifested itself today. Would that remove the arguments of the modernists against the 'trads'?
I think there could be merit moving forward here - revise the NO, and remove the protestant novelties. Emphasize the truly eucharistic nature, emphasize the theological understanding of the Mass as sacrifice. Ditch the lame guitar music. The composition of the NO was done badly. That doesn't mean that it's impossible to have a vernacular Roman liturgy done well.
Pax Tecum beloved brother in Christ. I thought the premise of the video was interesting, and I went into it with an open mind. I thought you brought up some interesting things, however right away, I think there’s an easy way to bridge this irreconcilable difference you speak of between trads and conservatives. It seems that you broadly recognize trads and conservatives as having the same divine and Catholic faith, however disagree as to weather or not there are ambiguities in Vatican II. I don’t see how this has to be an “irreconcilable difference”, as the question of whether or not there are ambiguities in Vatican II is clearly not a matter of the faith. Thomists and Augustinian-Franciscan philosophers disagree over the primacy of the intellect or the primacy of the will. However, both theologies are permitted as they don’t rise to the level of Divine and Catholic faith. The question of whether or not Vatican II contains ambiguities is even lower than theology. So regardless of the position you take, weather Vatican II has ambiguities, or not, so long as people of either position hold the same dogma of the faith, I see no reason why they can’t be in full communion with one another
Kennedy, can you please address the question of what a traditionally minded wife should do if her husband can't stand the Latin Mass and insists on going to the Novus Ordo. Most people say you should compromise, maybe switch off week to week for the sake of family unity, but if there is a fundamental difference that makes it bad for a person who understands that difference to attend, then doesn't that person have the duty to draw the line, even if it looks like sheen of being submissive to her husband ( because she's trying to submit to God first)? What role does conscience play in a spousal relationship? Jesus said he came not to bring peace, but the sword. I hate that there is division in my family over this, esp since our children are caught in the midst of it. But don't I have to stand for the truth? Is it possible for the church to promulgate a mass that it is actually sinful to attend? Is that what we're saying? Mother Miriam said on one of her shows addressing an older child in a family with a similar question that the mass doesn't exist for the sake of family unity, but if she's less than 18 she should get permission from her patents to attend a TLM apart from the rest of the family. How does this apply to a wife, especially when it seems his mind is bent on never going back to the TLM.
Negotiate more time in Holy Hour or Adoration with your husband, let Jesus make the argument for TLM. Once the Holy Spirit gets his heart, he will understand (wisdom).
Ask the local TLM priest. But a husband can’t command his wife to put herself in an occasion of sin (liturgical abuse, banality, immodesty, irreverences) and if she is a Roman rite Catholic, she has a right to the TLM. IMO, she should explain these reasons and agree to go to separate Masses, and in time work on him to appreciate the TLM. That’s my sense of things, but ask a traditional priest.
A friend introduced me to you tube a few years ago. It was then I realized how much the church was changing. Not for the better, The traditionalists, for lack of a better term, have put the church up for ransom. Their approach is, "my way or the highway." Out in the forefront was Voris, who saw evil behind every door. He promoted anger, hate and vengence on his daily program. He focused on destroying priests and bishops who he saw as immoral. A huge group of catholic bought into his message. Here we are today, Dec. 2023 with the beginning of a church schism. Voris is gone, but his successors are filling the gaps and are promoting a schism. Now kennedy, you wonder why the modernists and radical right can't get along. I have no problem understanding why the church is breaking down, when a segment of faithful have been actively working for its demise for decdes. So kennedy are you and your fellow " traditionalists" willing to take responsible for your actions? I'd love too hear your response to that question. Do you have the Catholic courage to answer that question.
Hi David. Not all Trads are like that. Others are helping to spread Catholic Tradition in a charitable way. But being charitable means doing what is best for others, so it’s not always going to be nice and pleasant. God bless.
Let's just ignore the differences and...'circle the wagons'? 😂 They are two different religions and I have had enough discussions with NO folk to know they don't seem to believe much of the Catholic Faith anymore. Things are such a mess and God will have to fix it and I suspect that is what the triumph of the Immaculate Heart will do. Meanwhile, we pray...and argue.
Any text can be ambiguous..if you interpret it in a vacuum. Therefore, to say "this text is ambiguous" doesn't mean much, as you could say that about ANY text. Many Catholics (notably the bishops who signed it) did not think the text was ambiguous, and the reason for that is that they were interpreting the text in the larger context of Catholic history, teachings and tradition. When you interpret the writings of Vatican 2 in the context of Catholic history, teachings and tradition, the meaning is not ambiguous. But - like ANY text - it you take it out of context, or begin to view it with an air of suspicion, assuming other interpretations that don't fit into an unbiased reading....well, then yeah, you're going to come out saying it's ambiguous (or worse.) This is largely what happened during the rise of Protestantism. People began to try reading The Bible outside the larger context of Catholic history, teachings and tradition, and over time as we have seen this led to thousands of different interpretations of verses and chapters that previously were very straightforward and agreed upon. But would any Catholic say "The Bible is ambiguous" ? Of course not. Because we understand it's meaning is clear within context. The same is true of the documents of Vatican 2. If you are seeking explanations of Vatican 2 texts, there are many books and videos on the subject - just as there are many books and videos written on parts of The Bible that may be confusing.
Exactly my comment. Even St. Peter said that what is written by St. Paul can be twisted by people who have bad motives. Anything is ambiguous if presented with Antichrist motives
I agree 100%. The Bible is a great example, think about how many thousands of false interpretations there are of the sacred scriptures! At some point Vatican II will have to be more clearly elucidated.
I will throw my opinion in this one.If you were to interview every practicing Catholic in the world..laity,priests,theologians would agree that the Pope absolutely has the right to make liturgical changes.One Pope cannot bind the hands of another.There is a large % of traditional Catholics who don’t believe that.They think that Quo Primum by Pius V forbade any liturgical changes forever.That is ridiculous.Even Archbishop Lefebvre did not believe that.That being said the recommendations of Sacrosanctum Concillium were virtually ignored by Paul VI.He approved a totally vernacular liturgy and rubber stamped one disastrous reform after another.He hated pomp and circumstance and hated tradition.I totally support absolute freedom for the TLM but some traditionalists are frozen in every way in 1950 and it borders on the insane.I say this as a 52 yr old Catholic who discovered the TLM at 16 and served as an altar boy for a few years at a traditionalist chapel.
Conservative is political. Political doesn't get along with anything that refutes the policies of the group. Of course we don't get along as long as we are playing politicians.
Don’t listen to this divisive, radical traditionalist troublemaker. He doesn’t speak the truth. He condemned his own soul and tries to bring others with him.
Don’t listen to the anti-Trads on the internet who invented the term “rad trad.” A “rad trad” is a Catholic upholding Tradition publicly resisting modernism in the Church. God bless.
It was hard to swallow the “new mass” in 1970 just as it is now. Using Protestants to rewrite the Mass was a huge mistake.
Protestants wrote it and free mason directed it:(
Rewriting the Mass was a huge mistake. I live Mass with the SSPX in Manhattan. I honestly believe we need to go back to the pre-55. ¿What do you think Kennedy? I don't hear this spoken about in the SSPX. Bunnini started messing with the Mass since 1955.
Why they even allowed Proddies at Vat2 is the big question.
When I attended my first Catholic Mass 2 years ago, before becoming Catholic, I was amazed by how the rubrics of the Catholic Novus Ordo and the Anglican Liturgy were almost identical. Once I attended the TLM at our parish, it became clear just how Protestant the design of the NO really is. Becoming Catholic is still the best decision I have ever made as a cradle Anglican.
@@MN-nr8bq if you’re interested, Michael Davies wrote a trilogy called the liturgical revolution sense passed on but he covers all aspects of the revolution from the protestant under Cranmer until the 1950s before the second Vatican council under Bunnini revision of the mass. Yves Chairon call Book about Annabel Bunnini I believe it’s called the reformer of the liturgy. I don’t have it, but plan on getting it.
Praying the Rosary together brings trad and modern people together. It is 20 minutes of taking turns speaking, that is, praying aloud, and not arguing.
If anyone can bring these together, our Lady can and will
I have been studying what happened since the '60s and i am very upset. I have a hard time even attending my NO parish anymore. Once you see the problems you just cant unsee them, there are so many. The big thing right now is the CONSTANT talk of "how do we get Catholics to believe in the real presence?" Seriously? Shitcan Vatican 2 entirely and go back to before. Why? Its easy....the TLM was, which evolved over centuries, was created be people that truly believed that God is in that tabernacle! Conversely, the NO, which seems to have been sloppily formed over night, was created by free mason with the help of protestants, neither believe in the real presence. AND IT SHOWS!
Become an evangelist. If you can preach the Gospel to Catholics, you can preach to anyone.😊
I'm with you 100%, I've been going to the TLM almost 4 years and I cannot go back. The "Eucharistic Revival" is ridiculous - doing the same thing and expecting different results. Michael Davies noted that EVERY SINGLE act of reverence to our Lord in the Eucharistic was removed after VII.
@@jimsember3528 and our spineless bishops just can't seem to figure it out.
My sentiment exactly.
Kennedy, you provide a constant stream of excellent and informative podcasts, some of the best I have found on the Internet. Your long podcast on "Extra ecclesiam nulla salus" was the best I've ever heard, as well as the most thought-provoking. You have found your métier! Please keep all this coming. God bless you and your growing family!
Kennedy is a goofball half educated hobbit with a lot of opinions. But not to rely on for anything.
That traditional Catholics and conservatives getting along is a pipe dream-this is so true. I have tried so hard. And oddly enough, the pushback comes not from traditionalists but from conservatives. They speak about the church being charitable in its ecumenism-but that charity doesn’t apply to tradition. I was raised conservative but discovered tradition in 2020. But my conservative circles simply look at tradition as a leper colony-all the while proclaiming love and charity for all. Meanwhile, over at tradition, they’re (I should myself included) have been trying so hard to reach out and connect.
Christ's truth cannot change!!! We, the laity need to change to fit the faith & tradition taught from the beginning!!! As a convert of 36 yrs, I came into the Church after the Vatican II's changes. I did what you did, Kennedy, I started researching and digging until I found the true tradition of the Church and will never leave! Being around the SSPX priests & Mass felt like I was home! God bless!
I attend a NO, and I'll be the first to tell you that Vatican II as a Council is going to have to be revisited at some point; especially in light of the INTENTIONS by some, but not all, of the actors involved in drafting those documents. It was drafted in a particular way for a particular ends - that much is pretty clear.
God can still provide abundant actual graces to help people through such circumstances.
I grew up in a “moderately reverent” Novus Ordo diocese and had a lifelong craving for deeper worship that ultimately led over about 20 years to me finally finding the Traditional-Apostolic Roman Mass. I didn’t know it still existed for two decades, but I had an unquenchable sense that there had to be more and better than the “moderately reverent” Novus Ordo Mass I was feeling “stuck” with.
There was NO Latin Mass near where I lived for 18 or so of those years, and I wasn’t that involved on TH-cam or social media, so I didn’t find out the Latin Mass even still existed until I stumbled upon a blog that mentioned it.
In my area Novos Ordo has been the only option for a very long time. I would have to drive 15 hours to reach a traditional Mass. I am 51 years old and I've never seen one. I hope things change in my lifetime.
Sounds like you need to plan a trip! Are you able to vacation?
Better to drive fifteen hours once a year reserve a room once a Year for your Easter duty than to comitt mortal sin attending doubtful sacraments in Novus Ordo. God will bless you for your perseverance.
The assumption is you live in the US.... If yes, I can confirm there are some TLM drought regions in the US but you should be able to do much better than 15hrs drive time, or do you mean 15hrs for the round trip? If you get online and search TLM websites (perhaps you have), I think you can do much better. I've been able to locate TLMs in places where I thought there were none. But also, given the current state of some Bishops' attempts to shut it down, some are not advertised - 2 options in my region fall into that category. You have to ask around.
I am Canadian and am just getting by like a lot of us under Trudeau so no travel for me right now. Thanks all.
@rpmgrlca That's rough. I'm in Canada too, and am fortunate enough to have an SSPX (30 minutes) FSSP (60 minutes) and diocesan TLM (90 minutes) available to me. But when I went searching for what was available, I saw how many places in Canada just have literally zero accessible options.
And with the cost of living crisis we have going on, an extra few hundred dollars in gas and potentially a hotel room is just out of the realm of possibilities.
Prayers that something becomes available closer to you and/or that this spiraling economy turns around so that traveling becomes an option again.
In all due charity, a 'Conservative Catholic' is just a far-right-of-center neo-modernist. We need to pray they leave the false church of the 'Novus Ordo,' the religion of modernism. 'The new Ordo was promulgated to take the place of the old.' - Allocution to the Consistory of May 24, 1976, Paul VI.
There are many problems there. Most people here love it - they were educated to love it. I came to christianity as a convert so I am not attached to it. I see many problems. Ambiguity of IIVC is what allows Francis´ weaponized ambiguity.
I am sure there will be new Trent ahead to clear all the confusion up. Unless it´s beginning of apocalypse and there is no betterment ahead just great apostasy.
Ambiguity of it lead to the changes which completely contradicted it - like liturgical reform and others ... and everyone just adopted it. Now we have spirit of VII and it´s not wrong name since it´s spirit of confusion and weaponized ambiguity.
If it´s not the beginning of the apocalyps there will be Trent ahead of us one day to bring back clarity which now is missing.
Thank you for saying this, Kennedy! I have grappled w this same Irksome thought for a few years, and it can get me quite riled up w anger. Cognitive dissonance and wondering if I was the Crazy one for wanting to adhere to Tradition. I now KNOW that it is only the Devil who wants to poke at, make fun of, get you to question God's Greatest Gift of Scripture and Tradition. Inside Holy Mother Church resides All Treasure!!
Thank you, Kennedy for this insightful commentary on the different points of view between Conservative Catholics and what you identify as Traditional Catholic views. I now understand that I have been on a journey from being raised in a Modernist mindset when I was young, to embracing Conservative views as I began diving deeper into my faith when I became a father, and now find myself aligned with the more Traditional viewpoints you, Tim Flanders and Dr Taylor express in your videos. I wouldn’t be the Catholic that I am today if I hadn’t gone through that journey and reflected on why that journey was necessary.
I pray for all Catholics to be reconciled first within the faith and then some day with our separated brothers and sisters in Christ.
I'm the oldest of 10 kids. My parents, who are gen x, are one of 8 and one of 12. Conservative catholics their whole lives. Raised us conservative catholic. I didn't even know what a Latin mass was until my 20s. My parents still don't really know what it is, have never been to one, and don't even have access to one if they wanted to go. Now that I am going to the Latin mass, I don't really see the difference between conservative catholics and traditional catholics. We all home school, pray the rosary, none of us like Francis, we all hate feminism, birth control, and modernism. To be honest, I always thought the terms were interchangeable.
The issue is the heresy of modernism. Traditionalists reject modernism, conservatives do not. Both can love the TLM. Both can reject birth control, embrace large families and embrace the salt of the earth lifestyle.
Looking into the actual heresy of modernism, that is where the differences become apparent.
@@poorbanishedchildrenofEve conservative catholics don't reject it or accept it. If you asked them what their stance is on it, they would have no idea what you are talking about. Most of them are under the impression that the NO mass is just the English version of the TLM and don't consider that their priest might be leading them astray. They have no idea that sacraments were changed or that fasting requirements changed. They're very faithful in a very uninformed way and if you told them what modernism is, most of them would reject it. I only just learned what the heresy of modernism is earlier this year and I'm still trying to learn how to implement that knowledge in my life. I don't even fully understand it yet. The thought that the average conservative catholic would be hostile towards tradition if they knew more about it is just silly. It's not hostility towards tradition or a preference for modernism. It's simply just a lack of even knowing what modernism is. You can't blame people for what they don't know.
How about Mass in its traditional form (I attend TLM) yet in the local vernacular?
@@larstiranos I don't really know what that would look like. Where I grew up (where my parents live) there are 5 catholic churches they can go to within an hour of where they live. They are all pretty liberal. Nothing the lay people can do about that. My parents are both in their early 50s and just learning about the traditional church. They are trying to implement that into their personal lives at least. That's the way I see it going with most conservative catholics I know. The more they learn, the better they try to be. That's why I don't believe that most traditionalists and most conservatives are opposed. Traditionalism is the logical conclusion of conservatism so we're all on the same path, just at different stages. I got introduced to traditionalism when my convert husband had questions that RCIA couldn't answer satisfactorily so I turned to Google and TH-cam. I discovered Taylor Marshall and went down a deep rabbit hole. I sent videos to my mom and she and my dad got into it too. We're learning how much we just didn't know about.
I think when you just see average conservative or traditionalist Catholics who are doing their best to catechise themselves and their children and live the faith properly to the best of their knowledge and with the best intentions, you don't see a lot of actual differences between many of the people themselves.
BUT when you look into the two "camps" that's where you start to see the disagreements over the particulars in things like Vatican II and the limits of Papal authority. That's where you start to see some real clashing and battling of ideas.
I've heard that it was similar in the early years of the Catholic/Orthodox split. There were these big heated theological debates and disagreements, and there were plenty of lay people who were right in that fight, but a lot of average families were just going to Mass and doing their best and you couldn't really tell the difference between an Eastern Orthodox and an Eastern Catholic unless you knew the specific theological questions to ask - assuming they even had an answer to that question...some only became Orthodox or stayed Catholic by accident of location dictating which one they had access to.
We were lied to and poorly catechized, me since 1968. NO Lukewarm Catholic, changed it up in 2020. They just tell you you can’t attend TLM, it’s still going on.
Truth and error cannot coexist!! Ab. Lefebvre echoed what has always been taught all the way from our Founder, Jesus Christ the King+
Excellent report Mr. Kennedy!!
VIVAT CHRISTUS REX+
“Stop the Council”-Pope John XXIII
I just attended a novus mass on Thanksgiving and it was horrible. Not because of many errors, except for all the sheep getting communion on the hand, but because the choir was so beautiful and loud it was as if I was at a concert . The type of music was probably modern- I did notice one tune sounded like one of the songs from dirty dancing 🫣😂 - there was no meditation and no peace. It is hard to explain but it wasn’t very efficacious at all
We moved and it is now 2 hours to our TLM parish and an hour to the nearest TLM mass. We usually drive and offer up the time, but we did try a few of the local novus masses and yes, they are horrible. Both because the lack of respect for the real presence and the way people act/dress in our Lord's house.
It sounds like a concert. Come and celebrate our awesome voices!
@@rpmgrlca it was!! I don’t want to sound uncharitable but it was so very distracting and that mass is already distracting enough so they top it off with a lot of noises singing and a woman as reader to boot!
Yes, I've experienced the feeling of being at a concert at the NO and it is so irreverent. However, the last few times I've attended a Latin Mass, I felt like I was at a social event in an auditorium due to the constant chattering of children. I'm happy to have so many children at Mass, but it was also distracting and far from quiet or peaceful. I'm not sure much can be done, and it's certainly better than loud band music, but I can't relate when people describe the TLM as peaceful and reverent, as that has not been my experience.
@@lellachu1682 that’s a shame. I am very blessed that we do have a Latin mass offered nearby. Aside from the occasional baby crying that has not been my experience at all and that choir is magnificent but it is also only scheduled once a month.
Hello from Denver
One big problem is that Original Sin, and all that comes with it, are forgotten, and that suffering and struggle are intrinsic to the authentic living of the faith. Everyone, including parents, is trying to shield people from it. IT’S FAILING BADLY. Returning to reality is the only way to solve this.
Hi Kennedy, any chance you could do some podcasts of just reading the bigger /more important orthodox papal encyclicals? Such as Pascendi, Divini Redemptoris etc... Its hard to find audio copies of them and it's not easy to find time to sit down and read them. Much appreciated, thank you for all your work! God bless!
There is a book called “Popes Against Modern Errors” by Tan Books Includes what you are requesting.
I can provide some anecdotal insight on a "traditionalist" that went to the new Mass. In my case it was due to a lot of independent study combined with a love of older devotions and Latin as a language. Everything I had learned about the Mass on my own emphasized its sacrificial nature, and I shoe-horned that into how I saw the new Mass. However, even then I would have preferred the traditional Mass, but I didn't have access to it.
Based Amiens Labyrinth pfp.
Way up here in northern Maine we don’t have a Latin Mass to go to. I’m sure many of us would go if given the opportunity.
There is a Traditional Latin Mass in StAndre New Brunswick
Conservaitive all my life. By the grace of God grew into traditional. Conservative and Traditional is not the same. Traditional by nature is conservative . Truth has its boundries. Foolishness knows no limit! .Conservative is by nature slow creeping moral relevancy. Traditional= truth is truth always, liberating certian good an life giving. Conservative = truth is pragmatic and useful most of the time some of the time part of the time and an impediment to pragmatism in difficult situations. Traditional is always conservative.! Consavative is sometimes traditional !
There is a phrased used a lot, "Traditional and Conservative" and then when you check their value they are no way even close to being the area of Traditional and Conservative. I think people have a big misunderstanding what Traditional and Conservative is and they believe they are...
No. Conclusions are the reflections of one's assumptions. The Christ taught let "your yes be yes and your no be no" so-as-to avoid or sanction
casuistry fostering ambiguity. ❤
My experience with conservatives still going to NO parishes is that it is convenient and a habit which they are not willing to make the effort to change. They’re comfortable with being blind to what is happening because it is the easiest path. Making the effort to educate themselves and taking the step towards truth and tradition means leaving the sheep/flock that’s following the wrong shepherd. As a SSPX parish member I can attest to the frustration in trying to help my own family see the errors in NO mass and they have pretty much stopped going to mass all together instead of making the change.
"Then I saw the fifth angel sounded, and a star(prelate) fell from heaven, to him was given the KEYS to the bottomless pit and smoke arose out of the bottomless pit like that of a great furnace and the sun (represents the light of Christ's teaching) was darkened because of the smoke that arose out of the bottomless pit" revelation nine. Fr wolf's commentary based on church fathers is the star that fell was paul 6th and the second vatican council was the smoke from the abyss and or saint Paul's "operation of error"
"In those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon won't give her light" - Jesus matthew 24. Augustine says this is the terrible state of the church near the end where the light of christ isn't preached and the visibility of the true church is seemingly diminished.
I went from FSSP to SSPX. Then i discover SSPV (Father Jenkins) and now im more confused than ever 😢
Thanks for this podcast Kennedy. I've been listening to your podcasts the past few months and you have mentioned that you read your way to the SSPX. What books, etc. did you read that helped you realize why the Norvus Ordo is lacking?
Needs to be discussed more because as Kennedy highlights there is a major discrepancies between the deposit of the faith cincepts and practices between the modern N.O conservative Catholics and Traditional Latin praying Catholics. Apparently both Catholics but seems conservative feel entitlted to badger the Traditional. But lets be up front that this has come.from the top in example ultimately.
I think the 'Hermeneutic of Continuity ' is like mixing water with oil. The two can't blend together.
My family is a mix of traditional and conservative Catholics 😅
It's not easy
Don’t forget to like the video and subscribe if you haven’t yet! Laudetur Jesus Christus!
Per omnia saecula saeculorum. Amen.
Growing up in the Novus Ordo. As I became a traditionalist, I read the documents of VII. After doing so, I could not see the heresy in it. The traditionalists had to lay out, this is what the Church used to teach and say, and this is what is in the documents of VII. As an online debater when it was first proven to me that VII was indeed heretical. I remained silent and stopped trying to defend VII for about 6 months before I took up the traditional position that VII is indeed heretical.
I do think personality type plays a roll in a persons ability to process and comprehend complex ideas. Many personality types cannot think outside the tribal box they are in. As an INFJ not only have I always studied every point of view and argument from every tribe. If you put forth a good argument and prove me wrong. I will say, you have a good point, I was mistaken, and move on. I think INTJs hate to be proven wrong! There is spent costs to be in any tribe and a cost to putting aside being a cheering fan for your own tribe, and there is a cost to switching tribes. So the attachment ends up going to the tribe rather then correct Catholic theology or exegesis.
I have searched and grown in my understanding of church liturgy, and just sharing what i have found to be delightful has triggered and stirred the pot of my N.O. friends. They become defensive, abusive, and angry and closed to discussion. They will accept all maanner of liturgicaal changes and abuses but are super quick to point fingers and call SSPX schismatics without and evidence or acknowledgment that SSPX is the continuation of Catholic faith expression without any changes despite the mainstream church's adoption of many modern erros since vatican 2 council. Its disturbing to see how blind so many mainstream Catholics are to their church's true history and tradition. I might add that these people hold tight to marian apparitions rhat warn us of these changes but dont see the changes as having taken place in pir lifetime and we have been basocally the recipients of neglect in the passing down of the faith. The great apostasy we all expecting to be revealed in is primed and prepared to be receieved by these modern blind N.O loving Catholics.
Fabian Bruskewitz was the only person who attempted to excommunicate those associated with the SSPX.
Of course. And where is the FSSP North American Seminary located?
Good afternoon Kennedy! I am wondering if you could give a talk on why we must be using pre-1955 Holy Week Liturgy and Prayers. Thankyou & Peace...
Read the difference between the 1955 and 1962 prayer for the Jews on Good Friday
tks! God bless...Ive been hearing there is a lot more than that which is interesting to know. @@horseluver4life1999
it does seem to be like oil and water at the moment.
With the "errors" in the Miraculous Medals and how they were made and now hearing about white plastic satanic rosaries - with no INRI and a sun on the Cross - how do we safely and discreetly get rid of these things? I got rid of the Medals, and have no rosaries - just heard about them. Thanks! God bless...
All documents of council were signed in formal magisterial sense by Paul VI. His later letter about "pastoral only" is moot and deflection; he also insisted on following his interpretations, for LeFebvre and everyone else. So are his many comments on how to interpret V II valid interpretations, or is he an invalid pope? What helps is to realize that we must interpret documents as popes do. The men claiming to be popes since 1958 have given us the interpretations and those are not in line with the past.
Kennedy can you give me your opinion of the Eucharistic Revival? My heart can't seem to accept that this is Catholic. Also is it acceptable to have Jesus exposed on the Altar in the church in a Monstrance when we have multiple priest offering Reconciliation, also in the Church for a large group of people? Also.. can items be sold in the back of the church..not in the foyer but in the Church, itself! These things just don't feel right. Can I have your opinion, obviously it's okay with the priest, so I don't need to ask him. Confussed, and hurting..please help. Thank you.
I don’t see trad or conservative only Catholic and Non Catholic.
We have to be careful, in holding too tight to writings of intellectuals, that we are no longer Catholics, but legalist.
No different than the keepers of the Law to the rejection of GOD standing before them.
I do follow a lot of trad or conservative content, really mostly from novis converts to the faith, who went to school.
As a cradle Catholic it is a part of me and I am not in need of too much writings, but I am always learning.
When JESUS returns, will He find us Loving GOD, and Loving our neighbors?
We have the words of the the utmost authority already.
And He made it simple, but not easy to live the faith.
“Love one another as I have Loved You.”
Who’s writings are smarter than this?
Amen!! 🙏✝️🕊️
It seems that the current mass is not adequate protection for the faithful, so both restoration and reform are needed. The 1970 missal can be replaced with something better, just as many different rites of the church have been replaced throughout the history of the church. What if the solution is not to go back to the older missals, but instead to move forward into a new Roman rite that brings back the prayers of the old rites that we so desperately need and adds new prayers specifically suited to combating the evil that is modernism as it has manifested itself today. Would that remove the arguments of the modernists against the 'trads'?
Really bad idea.
I think there could be merit moving forward here - revise the NO, and remove the protestant novelties. Emphasize the truly eucharistic nature, emphasize the theological understanding of the Mass as sacrifice. Ditch the lame guitar music.
The composition of the NO was done badly. That doesn't mean that it's impossible to have a vernacular Roman liturgy done well.
Pax Tecum beloved brother in Christ. I thought the premise of the video was interesting, and I went into it with an open mind. I thought you brought up some interesting things, however right away, I think there’s an easy way to bridge this irreconcilable difference you speak of between trads and conservatives. It seems that you broadly recognize trads and conservatives as having the same divine and Catholic faith, however disagree as to weather or not there are ambiguities in Vatican II. I don’t see how this has to be an “irreconcilable difference”, as the question of whether or not there are ambiguities in Vatican II is clearly not a matter of the faith. Thomists and Augustinian-Franciscan philosophers disagree over the primacy of the intellect or the primacy of the will. However, both theologies are permitted as they don’t rise to the level of Divine and Catholic faith. The question of whether or not Vatican II contains ambiguities is even lower than theology. So regardless of the position you take, weather Vatican II has ambiguities, or not, so long as people of either position hold the same dogma of the faith, I see no reason why they can’t be in full communion with one another
Kennedy, can you please address the question of what a traditionally minded wife should do if her husband can't stand the Latin Mass and insists on going to the Novus Ordo. Most people say you should compromise, maybe switch off week to week for the sake of family unity, but if there is a fundamental difference that makes it bad for a person who understands that difference to attend, then doesn't that person have the duty to draw the line, even if it looks like sheen of being submissive to her husband ( because she's trying to submit to God first)? What role does conscience play in a spousal relationship? Jesus said he came not to bring peace, but the sword. I hate that there is division in my family over this, esp since our children are caught in the midst of it. But don't I have to stand for the truth? Is it possible for the church to promulgate a mass that it is actually sinful to attend? Is that what we're saying? Mother Miriam said on one of her shows addressing an older child in a family with a similar question that the mass doesn't exist for the sake of family unity, but if she's less than 18 she should get permission from her patents to attend a TLM apart from the rest of the family. How does this apply to a wife, especially when it seems his mind is bent on never going back to the TLM.
Negotiate more time in Holy Hour or Adoration with your husband, let Jesus make the argument for TLM. Once the Holy Spirit gets his heart, he will understand (wisdom).
Ask the local TLM priest. But a husband can’t command his wife to put herself in an occasion of sin (liturgical abuse, banality, immodesty, irreverences) and if she is a Roman rite Catholic, she has a right to the TLM. IMO, she should explain these reasons and agree to go to separate Masses, and in time work on him to appreciate the TLM. That’s my sense of things, but ask a traditional priest.
A friend introduced me to you tube a few years ago. It was then I realized how much the church was changing. Not for the better, The traditionalists, for lack of a better term, have put the church up for ransom. Their approach is, "my way or the highway."
Out in the forefront was Voris, who saw evil behind every door. He promoted anger, hate and vengence on his daily program. He focused on destroying priests and bishops who he saw as immoral. A huge group of catholic bought into his message. Here we are today, Dec. 2023 with the beginning of a church schism. Voris is gone, but his successors are filling the gaps and are promoting a schism.
Now kennedy, you wonder why the modernists and radical right can't get along. I have no problem understanding why the church is breaking down, when a segment of faithful have been actively working for its demise for decdes.
So kennedy are you and your fellow " traditionalists" willing to take responsible for your actions? I'd love too hear your response to that question. Do you have the Catholic courage to answer that question.
Hi David. Not all Trads are like that. Others are helping to spread Catholic Tradition in a charitable way. But being charitable means doing what is best for others, so it’s not always going to be nice and pleasant. God bless.
The problem is with the trads…who think they are holier than thou and if you don’t do it their way they damn you to hell. Over trads…
Let's just ignore the differences and...'circle the wagons'? 😂 They are two different religions and I have had enough discussions with NO folk to know they don't seem to believe much of the Catholic Faith anymore. Things are such a mess and God will have to fix it and I suspect that is what the triumph of the Immaculate Heart will do. Meanwhile, we pray...and argue.
Even Scripture can be said to be ambiguous in some cases. It's pretty simple. Are you a member of the Church of Nice, or the Church of the Martyrs?
Any text can be ambiguous..if you interpret it in a vacuum.
Therefore, to say "this text is ambiguous" doesn't mean much, as you could say that about ANY text. Many Catholics (notably the bishops who signed it) did not think the text was ambiguous, and the reason for that is that they were interpreting the text in the larger context of Catholic history, teachings and tradition.
When you interpret the writings of Vatican 2 in the context of Catholic history, teachings and tradition, the meaning is not ambiguous.
But - like ANY text - it you take it out of context, or begin to view it with an air of suspicion, assuming other interpretations that don't fit into an unbiased reading....well, then yeah, you're going to come out saying it's ambiguous (or worse.) This is largely what happened during the rise of Protestantism. People began to try reading The Bible outside the larger context of Catholic history, teachings and tradition, and over time as we have seen this led to thousands of different interpretations of verses and chapters that previously were very straightforward and agreed upon.
But would any Catholic say "The Bible is ambiguous" ? Of course not. Because we understand it's meaning is clear within context.
The same is true of the documents of Vatican 2.
If you are seeking explanations of Vatican 2 texts, there are many books and videos on the subject - just as there are many books and videos written on parts of The Bible that may be confusing.
Exactly my comment. Even St. Peter said that what is written by St. Paul can be twisted by people who have bad motives. Anything is ambiguous if presented with Antichrist motives
I agree 100%. The Bible is a great example, think about how many thousands of false interpretations there are of the sacred scriptures! At some point Vatican II will have to be more clearly elucidated.
@@-GodIsMyJudge- It has been. Read St JP II's "Veritatis Splendor".
I will throw my opinion in this one.If you were to interview every practicing Catholic in the world..laity,priests,theologians would agree that the Pope absolutely has the right to make liturgical changes.One Pope cannot bind the hands of another.There is a large % of traditional Catholics who don’t believe that.They think that Quo Primum by Pius V forbade any liturgical changes forever.That is ridiculous.Even Archbishop Lefebvre did not believe that.That being said the recommendations of Sacrosanctum Concillium were virtually ignored by Paul VI.He approved a totally vernacular liturgy and rubber stamped one disastrous reform after another.He hated pomp and circumstance and hated tradition.I totally support absolute freedom for the TLM but some traditionalists are frozen in every way in 1950 and it borders on the insane.I say this as a 52 yr old Catholic who discovered the TLM at 16 and served as an altar boy for a few years at a traditionalist chapel.
Me and my homies love V2
my condolences
Tripplerizz...trolling or a future member of the coming One World Religion?
Yes, get it, homies…
Indeed, so doth lucifer...
Troll alert! 🤡
Conservative is political. Political doesn't get along with anything that refutes the policies of the group. Of course we don't get along as long as we are playing politicians.
No, conservative isnt "political". The political arena adopted the word to mean "not liberal" (anothet word yhat existed before adooyed by politics).
Don’t listen to this divisive, radical traditionalist troublemaker. He doesn’t speak the truth. He condemned his own soul and tries to bring others with him.
So I take it you’re not a fan?
Don’t listen to the anti-Trads on the internet who invented the term “rad trad.” A “rad trad” is a Catholic upholding Tradition publicly resisting modernism in the Church. God bless.
There are simply no traditional options in my area. There are traditionalists that submit to the Novus Ordo out of lack of option.
Explain the use of the word "submit"