I agree with much of what you said but I want to see this test made with good compost. What you used is basically mulch, or soil conditioner at best, it might actually be sucking nutrients out of its surroundings as it continues to decompose.
@@brandonstahl3562 I used a professional compost.....In my case the problem was the fact that, in full sun, it dried in an hour. When i watered 3 times a day, I obtained a good result. So, in my case, the problem was one: the compost is like a sponge that dries out when climate is hot.
I get the point, particularly about balancing compost and soil so that you have the right mix of minerals, nutrients, and beneficial life. However, please repeat this experiment with a better compost, ideally homemade compost with a good mix of "brown" and "green" material. I realize that by using bagged compost you get consistency, but I assume you can get some bulk compost delivered, from a source that uses a more "traditional" blend of ingredients. A lot of the bagged stuff has been sterilized. An advantage of the locally-sourced bulk compost is that it's more likely to have a decent blend of bacteria and fungi.
If you have sand, clay, silth rocks or pebbles in your soil and who doesnt you have all the nutrients, what your lacking is the biology to make it available to your plants. Studies been made long time ago, there is no soil on this planet lacking the nutrients.
An interesting experiment, but I think it needs to be repeated in various soil types. My own soil in Norfolk, UK is virtually sand and gets depleted very quickly. As ever, I think one learns to be a good gardener (if you are paying attention) in the conditions that you garden in. Many lessons, however, do not readily transplant into different environments and conditions.
Experiment just proved it was a very shity compost with no availible nitrogen. I can grow everything in pots in my home made compost. And only compost nothing else. Sometimes I add a little bit of river sand just to have better drainage. I can grow seedlings and also huge plants. Of course I tried growing just in soil and also in soil amended with compost... Pure compost with one third of sand gives best results every time.
Diego, I really like what you had to say at the end of this video, about putting yourself out there, and don’t be afraid of making some mistakes. I personally need to be more like that.
Had parsley self seed a few years back ... was horrified at first because it returned with a vengeance .... but now those massive deep roots and huge solar panels seem to have massively improved those beds ... effectively a free cold season cover that’s edible and improving my soil - inattention for the win !🤙🤣
I was going to say the bed with more compost at least an inch or two would be better until I saw the compost you were using. As soon as I saw it was Kellogg I said to myself the least amount added most likely, but even that was to much, lol. I love it. Kellogg's compost is really mulch.
@@vonries Agreed. I bought 2 bags once just to see. Once I saw it I thought, what the hell am I going to do with this shit. Haha. OK then, mulch it is.
You should try this with homemade compost. I tried kellogg's once and found it to be crap. My plants did terrible in it and I would never buy it again.
I have found that kellogs amend does not amend soil, even in the long run somehow. It just is terrible. Better to collect leaves and clippings and mix them into sandy or other soils. Or if you buy it for nutrition, just use fertilizer. As our hydroponic friends know, you can grow more productive plants in inert mediums or water with just the right ingredients.
I was gonna say... that compost looks more like mulch. AKA the stuff you use to stop plants from growing on your paths and under your trees. Think about that for a second...
I bought Kellogg’s raised bed “soil” and found it to be mostly wood pieces. My garden isnt doing super well. Anything I can do to help my beds this year? I’m a super noob.
I’m a beginner at gardening and dug about 3 - 4 feet deep lol and added compost of all kinds from food, brown leave’s, branches, green leaves, sand, and homemade compost dirt and everything is looking beautiful! I’m a beginner lol. All this is an experiment.
I had sandy soil. I added a bunch of compost when we first moved here to start building the soil. Now, 5 years later I am planting winter rye cover crops and am not pulling my garden plants (other than root plants) but am cutting them at the surface and leaving the roots. I add pine shavings after planting to keep weeding to a minimum and just leave them in the beds to decay. I have added worms and took up vermiculture last year and will use that soil in a couple beds to test it out. Experimenting with this is fun.
I did this experiment with a fig tree. The copy with compost & part shade did the worst, the one with compost & full sun did the best, & the one in full sun but no compost did average. At times the added compost would heat up the soil by almost 10 degrees in comparison to surrounding soils.
Last year I planted corn in one bed. Instead of pulling the stalks out after picking the corn, I cut it of at ground level and planted field peas. After picking peas I cut them off at ground level and planted a mixed cover crop of ten different plants. I will cut them down and leave them and plant through them. It will be interesting to see the crop results.
This year i did the same with tomatos and cucumbers. I have very light, powdery soil - so i want to see if leftover roots will make a difference in the amount of organic matter in the soil.
I used to dig out my clay soil when planting a new plant and replaced it with a fresh sand,soil,compost mix. Fast forward a few years and now instead of replacing the clay soil with my mix, I blend it in with it.
GREAT video! I've been very confident with my half-inch layer of compost + cover cropping without any real evidence as to *why* I should be confident, and now I have some well thought out backup! Like other commenters I do like adding in the fall (I have an off season) in conjunction with my winter cover crops. Gives it time to mellow out and integrate into my soil.
The Kellogg's amend looks like what I would use for top dressing, and pull away to plant in the soil beneath. Moisture retention is nice in that type of compost, but I wouldn't plant into it. Nice breakdown DF.
Agree that in about a year, with good rain, the beds with more compost will be great. Also, here in Texas I learned the value of about 5-10% expanded shale when gardening in black clay. Beds to which I added shale 10 years ago, and have only mulched & planted since, are beautiful, perfectly friable and moist (in the spring & fall) 6-8" deep
I once thought that compost...I make my own... was the answer to everything. I now mix it with my clay areas as an amendment and it works very well. I too discovered that I got weak growth with plants that were in heavy compost.
I put 3" of compost I brought in on my beds this past summer, and some crops did well while others did not at all. The parsnips did best, and they were very deep rooted, so that suggests they got their nutrients from below where the compost reached. I'll be interested in seeing how things do next year with more integration. On the other hand, the most vigorous winter squash plant I ever had was a volunteer growing out of my compost pile - no soil there...
I think you are right that it depends on the soil you're working with. If you have soil already rich in organic matter, you don't need to add more. I think we have to look at what our soil composition is and add what is needed to achieve the desired ratio of organic to inorganic components.
No, I disagree. Only the likelihood that the base topsoil that is being used is probably decent saved part of the experiment and skewed the results. In fact, if the objective was really to measure the effectiveness of compost either as an amendment or as a replacement, the experiment should probably have been run on a top soil of pure sand to remove the variability of the top soil effect. My prediction is that if the experiment was done with sand, that all 4 plots would fail because the compost quality in this experiment is no good.
@@tonysu8860 I would agree with you sir. It was a poor compost. You can grow things in pots with pure compost. Homemade high quality compost and have great results. Much better results than with heavy clay soil.
I was so excited for the results of this test. It’s interesting that 1 and 4 did the best. I would have expected the results to be more linear. I just started building soil in March, but it’s already got lots of fungal growth. I have been attributing it to our compost/vermicompost tea that we’ve been making and applying. Maybe the benefit of that is that it’s in liquid form and can permeate the soil to greater depths. There’s no question that the harvests have been prolific and abundant. Thank you for contributing this video for the benefit of us all.
Oh my gosh, as a newbie to gardening and having started my very first beds in lockdown I went for a ‘no dig’ approach and dumped compost onto cardboard covered mossy grass. I also had an area that had been covered by weed suppressant and gravel for 5yrs. I added blood fish and bones to the compost and went for it. Despite liquid feeding every week once fruiting I couldn’t understand why although my plants got off to a great start and always looked pretty healthy they weren’t as tall as other people’s plants, they didn’t bulb up as quickly or as well and they fruited much later than others. Here in Cornwall UK we’ve had weeks of hot dry weather, unusually strong gale force winds, torrential rain and humidity so it’s been tough but..... talk about a baptism of fire! Now at the end of my first season I’ve had some successes, some epic fails but overall despite the shear volume of seeds and potting on I did I have to say I thought we’d be eating like kings but that wasn’t the case. I’m totally inexperienced but I was beginning to think my soil must be the problem but looking on line nobody seems to mention the soil they start with. I’m so glad I watched your experiment so I at least can see my results are not all my fault, it has boosted my confidence and spurred me on to keep trying. Thanks 🙏🏼
It sounds like they were slightly nitrogen stressed. If you just put down the cardboard on fresh grass, it was probably leaching nitrogen while it decomposed. It will return that in spades, but fibrous material like grass and cardboard take a lot of nitrogen to break down. Those beds should do better in the future. Potentially a lot better, depending on your specific circumstances.
Thanks John that’s a great help. I’m also on a particularly heavy clay soil and when I took som plants out I noticed the roots were struggling to get through compacted clay so took the decision to dig it over down to about 18” and mix manure and b/f/bone right through. It did help a bit but I still had the same problem. My beetroot for example was planted in the beginning of March. Always seemed healthy and we did have a small amount through the summer but most was still in the ground in October and still only a large golf ball size. I’m still totally confused how I’ve managed to help my friend get started on line and she has had much better harvests than me 🤷🏼♀️
What you just proof with your experiment is exactly what I learned from my grandparents when I was a child. I started gardening at age 70 (yes I still look like in the picture) using my ancestors practices, and I’m getting much better result than adding tons of organic material (compost). Most important has been add tilt a fool deep.
I think it's best just to mulch the surface of the soil with compost, maybe an inch or 2. It gets the plants off to a good start, then once the roots hit the soil they really take off in the height of summer, with the abundance of trace minerals they need, provided you have good soil
The Kellogg's looks more like mulch, not compost, and your test trial demonstrates this point. Try your test using good compost, perhaps the malibu, and see what happens. Successful no-till market gardeners like Josh Satin and Casey Ostwich at Honey Tree Farm use a couple of inches of compost on top of soil (with dry amendments) before planting with great results.
As a second season grower I appreciate this video very much. So many people preach nothing but compost and when I priced compost here versus a 3:1 mix (soil, compost and pray) compost is super expensive. Now I realize everyones growing zone and native soul are all different.... We have a more clay soil here in Ottawa, Ontario Canada and I was surprised at what just grew in place. My tomatoes did amazing without anything but woodchips on top to hold in moisture. My new hoophouse, I covered everything in cardboard and woodchips through winter. Due to covid and frozen soil it was hard to get much more than last year's bags. So I just dug a hole for each tomatoe plant and let them fight it out. I think I added a bit of fertilizer and eventually calcium towards end. But my point is let the plants tell you what they need.... Plus everyone that says compost COMPOST turns around adds piles of amendments.... So I love that you addressed the soil as a whole. Yrs top dress, broad or pitch fork, and amend as needed but the plants will make a away....
Laguna Hills Nursery's Gary Matsuoka would have likely said 1 or 2. Not sure if you've follow him at all, he makes Gary's Top Pot and Gary's Acid Mix. He is a huge proponent of not adding too much organice matter. Agriculture knows this. But for some reason, in horticulture we are told "compost compost compost!!" ..most plants love loam and sandy loam. Yes they need nutrients, yes compost has a purpose...but not all plants love living in other "dead rotten plants" as Gary would say
Thanks for telling me about Gary. I will check him out. I really do think the more I garden that organic matter is good, but it is like a lot of things, moderation is key. Deep rooted plants do most for the deeper layers of soil by creating channels that newer roots can follow down later on. One of the reasons is it is so good to not pull roots.
gary taught me everything i know, yet im a more-on at heart so although id never mix organic matter into soil, i do still wonder if i could have like 8 inches of compost on top of soil and plant into that instead of planting into the soil beneath, would really make things super easy, he told me to plant in the soil and that i cant have too much compost on top of the soil, but i suuure love my compost :p
My response? This citizen scientist says “deep” and Inspiring, thank you Diego. I especially latched onto your thoughts on a deep integrated approach including the value of roots we bring into our garden. Past years, plant harvests done and I pull them up including their roots, examining and noticing root health. This year I’m going to be much more apt to clipping oldplants at the surface and valuing old decaying roots left in place, kind of like Ma Nature does for us. Hopeful for a good learn. Appreciate you.
Did a few cubic yards of potting mix mostly compost (about 80%). Most plants not happy, and the top 4-6 inches dry out quick because the mix couldn't hold water. So I had to water almost daily (I hate wasting water, but hate wilting leaves more). Will add peat moss.
Really interesting. I have very little access to compost in the desert. We mix what we have with water, aerated it, water the dirt with it and cover the soil with cardboard and sawdust to reduce evaporation. There is no way we can do a Charles Dowding style garden. We depend on nitrogen fixing trees to fix up the soil.
What I learn from Diego’s experiment and the comments is that the term “compost” can mean many different things. Perhaps a good experiment would be testing the results of planting using different types of compost.
My compost has lots of strawberry caps and leafy greens and asparagus ends. Too much carbon in your compost. It should be a gradient with deeper soil having more worm castings and actual dirt, mid layer a good mix of dirt and compost and then more compost at the top, top it off with light mulch like straw. Grow cover crops in off seasons to replenish the soil and become compost itself
@@toastiesburned9929 Yes and as gardeners we must recognize that most plants do not grow well in pure organic matter or high organic matter soil. The agricultural departments in my area recommend soils to have a 1% to a 6% organic matter in them as too much organic matter can cause root rot .
Omg-The spaghetti example-perfect-so true.Made me hit subscribe.This is why I’m making mound gardens and moving them every few years with companion planting.Most soil in bags isn’t even soil and beginners get frustrated when they spend so much money on plants then use the crap soil and the plants cant even drink the water.Thank you for this video.
Thanks, watched this about a month ago and have been thinking about my problem. I think you nailed it. I added compost that wasn't completely done and had terrible results. From now on I will add it in the Fall, like right now. I know my problem was also HOW much time I put into Gardening, Thanks again, and if you could do a test on adding in the fall vs in the spring. I would like your opinion.
Rule, put your compost down in the fall not the spring. There is no such thing as too much compost and compost make a great water holder. The compost will be eaten by soil life and distributed deep in the soil by earthworms. But dont forget to put compost in the FALLL !
Great advice if you don't have a growing season during late autumn/winter. As you can leave the bed fellow during that time. For me down here in Melbourne, Australia. I find that once a bed has bee harvested, add some new manure and compost let it sit for a week or so, then seed/plant into.
oh the controversy in everything we do in our lives lol ive been taught by a soil scientist and researcher to never mix organic matter into soil, go look in the forest, 4 inches of compost on top of CLEAN soil free of organic matter, organic matter needs oxygen to decompoze or it rots aneorobically, what i want to know, is if there was like 6 8 inches of compost on top of the soil, does that even happen in forests? and if it does, maybe is it a bad things that suffocates the soil and stops moisture getting to the soil? is too much organic matter creating a dead zone for plants and a alive zone for fungi? annoying how complicated simple things are
My experience this year equals bed #5 almost exactly. My only good producer was the Asian yard-long bean, and they were spectacular. I think next year will be great for everything else. I also just found a great source of rabbit manure and brought home 100 pounds this weekend.
You offer allot of great insight and material to contemplate. For instance, This year, I brought in allot od compost. Layered it on and planted as close to the original soil as possible but... I noticed many plants only began to take off when their roots penetrated deeper into the soil below. That is where the moisture and minerals are. Also, There is so much discussion about no dig or no till gardening but... It can create that separation between the compost and mulch layers above the originals soil and sometime needs to be opened up with a digging fork, or a broad fork to let the blending of the layers begin. IF machinery is available for the initial garden layout, doing several tills to open up the soil and till in amendments such as compost and minerals. Soil Testing is not cheap but perhaps we could do a better job adding amendments IF we know what we are already starting with. In closing, the No Till approach is a great way yo start new beds, just layer on the cardboard or paper, then compost and then mulch. But before the next season... get in there and crack that barrier open, Keep up the great work, W
Hey Diego. No question about it, anything that I can add to our soil out here is a plus. My sons and I live in a mid high valley of the Mojave desert, 70 miles south of Vegas. Nothing out here but a few shades of grey, tan and black. Once the heat breaks a bit, we're going to take bits and pieces of a few systems to build a good foundation first. Core gardening, hugelkultur, lasagna lightly mixed into top few inches, heavy JADAM with several apps of JMS and JLF every 4 to 5 days. We're having to go natural with what very limited local resources that we can scratch up because of the way things have been. But, I have hundreds of seeds that I've saved over time, including over 1,500 moringa seeds. Providing things don't go FUBAR any time soon, I know, that's asking a lot, we'd like to get a good strong microclimate intense grow food forest going, not just for ourselves, but so we can pay it forward to the local community and nearby food banks. Gotta try to teach these young men something while I'm still kicking. ;-)
1st year beds 1 just layered cardboard and a ton of mostly mushroom compost and some garden soil. First year kinda sucked. Needed a lot of water. Disease and pest issues. Second year added "organic fertilizer" little better but still a lot of pests. Decided to turn the soil to interrupt any pest over wintering. I have clay and rock (reason I did no dig to begin with). My plants did much better. I'm seeing much more worms and it's holding water much better. Not planning to till anymore but I am glad I did. Leaving roots and piling my leaves and green mulch this winter. Making LAB and potassium for next year and buried kitchen scraps in some areas. We shall see next season.
In plot one the plants would have access to a lot more mycorrhizal fungi than the other plots, it would be interesting to see the results of years 2 3 and 4 after the layers have mixed a bit and it's had an opportunity for the fungi to enter
I grow in 100% compost so I figure maybe I need to watch this... Kinda shocked, I have the best gardens growing in 100% compost in a raised bed. Maybe its the way I compost. All my raised beds are built over a chicken run from the previous year. Even my Legumes did well which I was not expecting. My composts come in stages and it can take up to 18 months for the materials to make it through the process which includes having chickens scratch and break things down for up to a year before it goes into the 6 month compost pile. Who knows what lead to my success. Maybe the worm feeding stations in the worm beds allowed me to grow in 100% compost. I do not even add nutrients and I have robust growth and fruiting. Ok one admission I need to make, I did have to add Calcium because what I had intended to use the compost for (evergreen production) was shifted to growing vegetables.
We do the same for raised beds 100% compost and have amazing results. But it has to be already composted compost wood chip compost must be finished with a fungal process to stop it from sponging up all the nutrients and of coarse make it hydrophilic (i.e. a wet rotten log)
compost is never finished, 99 percent of it turns to c02 and flys away, its the "tea" that is what fertilizes and conditions soil, it turns out the percent of organic matter in soil samples was actually live plant roots that got chopped up and mistaken for soil organic matter in analysis, if you are growing in straight compost, according to science, your heading for problems, though i know john kohler also grows in beds of pure compost, so im curious, i was taught by a soil scientist and second generation nursery man
John Liberty- Similar here. My best results have been with a 24 months compost. Yes, that's 2 years! Well broken down, really "finished". if we can use such expression! On the creepy side of the story, the reason behind it was a cat! A dead cat! Unfortunately lost one cat. Which also went to the compost pile! For more or less obvious reasons. Neither me or my wife wanted to "see" any of it. So 24 months after, the most amazing compost I ever used was "finished". Curious detail in 24 months, EVERYTHING that was once a cat disappeared! And I mean bones, teeth, etc. just amazing compost as final result! Compost and time walk side by side! So called commercial compost like the one on this video. Is a good proof that "bad" compost can be highly detrimental. Worse when you think that one actually payed for it! :-(
@@crpth1 Joel salatin compost all of his dead animals and all the organs and offal from his other operations in wood chips and according to him an entire cow will be broken down in as little as 6 months
That's because you have "real" composted material. What he's using is junk. Any natural soil would grow better plants without that junk. They're taking people's money for a product that actually hurts your gardens. That Malibu is actually pretty damned good though. I used to get a mushroom compost that was good too. Yet it has gone to shit now too. Just like the black kow manure. It's all chips and crap now too.
I have heavy glacial clay soil and I'm in a high desert. I make my own slow no turn fungal dominant compost with lots of worms and millipedes living in it and I either put one cup of it in a hole and plant a seed in it or I plant in the clay and use .5 to 2 inches of my compost as mulch and innoculant. It works great. I also grow plants in it while it's composting. Works great. However, mine is not wood chip based. It's mostly made of weeds and bolted arugula and any browns I have laying around like fall leaves and old pine needles. I do innoculate the hell out of it at the start though, with spectrum, kombucha, bragg's vinegar, old compoat, and some soil from a garden bed.
Sunflowers are a great way to build deep soil fertility. After harvesting the heads and reseeding the stems and leaves get chopped for a surface mulch. Several years of this will drastically improve poor soil. This is what I have been doing in silty soils.
New subscriber here. Hello from far Northern Willamette Valley, Oregon in the lower cascade foothills . I was so impressed with your knowledge, experience and teaching methods I didn’t hesitate to subscribe. I came from a long line of farmers, gardeners and plant lovers. I adore gardening. I love growing useful plants, herbs, etc. Definitely subscribed!
Positive feedback loop. Applies to water too. Take two pots of soil, one bare, one with a plant growing. Sun them for 2 hours. Check which pot of soil turns paler. Everytime, it will be the bare soil. Same amount of water, same sun, but having a plant growing will make the soil lose less water. Even moreso if it's a dry-adapted plant.
This is why forestation of desert lands is possible, and why China has managed to turn Shaanxi (a province almost 2x the size of New York STATE) from a barren white desert into forests and meadows--so much so that they've even been accused of "genociding the desert".
Charles Dowding is a huge advocate of no till planting into compost, but he applies compost in the fall/winter, and it rests until spring plantings.. My best growing area is composed of various composts (woodchips, mushroom, leaf mulch, food scraps, hay, etc) that I added year after year. I did put a winter cover crop and crimp killed in spring and transplanted right into these beds.. I was worried that I was transplanting into a huge amount of root mass, but my plants did phenomenal.. I’m going to apply my deep litter compost to the rest of my beds and winter cover crop them.. Also, are u The Alton Brown of gardening?
I would gladly be the Alton Brown of gardening. :) Your right, Charles is a big advocate, but he is only adding about 3cm on a yearly basis. It isn't nearly as much as people think it is. Thanks for your input.
I've followed Charles' work for a long time and finally have a space for planting available now. I've put down cardboard to shade out grass, compost, and now letting it rest for a month before planting into it. I'm also adding aerated compost tea formula to assist with microbe building. It will be interesting to see how it goes.
What I always do is keep a rotation of compost going all the time, but only add it in the off season, or when I'm not using a part of the garden. I also don't add it thick enough to cover the ground. I mulch, and that composts directly in, as well as chop and drop in the garden, but I don't pile a lot of finished compost on top of the ground. If I have a lot of compost left over, I sometimes bury it in the garden
If it's completed the compost cycle you can add it any time. My beds get top ups all year round. This video is mostly garbage, using garbage materials.
Nice job ! I totally agree with the results of your experiment. I have had the same results too. the fact is not only compost but also any kind of organic matter would have the same result. and the reason is the bonding effect it has on the nutrients in the soil and the plant would be deprived of nutrients.
Well said, you have changed ideas said, true we incorporate composte similar to nature...most of time in the woods I've seen a thin top layer with composition below. The lifestyle of nature blows away some of our thinking. Take care and be safe while, having a great day!
Great experiment. I garden in containers due to a very restrictive condo association. We lose a huge volume of the soil mix every year,: what we, the bugs, and rabbits eat. So I add a lot of compost. I make most of it, but use some store-bought mushroom compost and manure. Your insightful video gives me some food for thought. Maybe I should add boring-old planting mix instead of store-bought composts? It'd be cheaper. And I always have some on hand as a starting mix. Though I'm apprehensive about experimenting too much since I have a lot of success in a small space. God I hate choices like this.
Containers are tough because you have a limited space to give the plants what they want. I think it is worth trying a few different options - pure compost, compost/potting soil, potting soil, garden soil. I don't garden enough in containers to have any good suggestions here.
I'm a container gardener too! Plants need mainly soil with fertilizing done every couple weeks during the floating and fruiting season. I use store bought organic "Vegetable Planting Soil" (don't buy miracle gro) and mix maybe a third of compared manure in there (also store bought). Also I put in a few scoops of milorganite, which is mainly nitrogen. Mix all that together really well before adding seedlings. My container garden has produced very healthy veggies and herbs. Keeping up with watering is difficult but I like that I can drag the plants into shade on those 90 degree weeks as needed.
I built raised beds this year and filled them with 100% compost and I had my best year if production. Although I used unscreened compost, so there were lots of rocks, twigs and other things.
We did the same 9 years ago and had great results too! the soil was a little too hot for straight carrots though as they do not like high nitrogen or chunky texture. The beds will sink 4-6 inches every season and you will have to top them off. By year 5 it will start to get a little heavy for some root crops and perhaps need to be lightened up we used a tremendous amount of pearlite to a accomplish this. Add in some bio char and amendments we now have super soil.....
So glad to watch this, I have been mix a lot of clay in my compose, to stretch it. I was fearing I had taken it to far, but my intuition was right, it would work out. 😅😅🤞🏻🙌🏻
When I make my own compost, I innocuolate layers of the compost with soil or finished compost, or items in the finished compost that did not go through the screen. I only amend soil with finished compost. When adding mulch or unfinished compost, you must water very well to saturate the top layer and let moisture reach the underlying soil.
If you have ever seen cucumbers growing out of a compost pile then you know the compost you used was not quality compost. It was bark mulch. This was more misleading than helpful.
@@mourlyvold7655 he's saying that the compost he used wasn't actually compost, it was just basically small raw un- broken down wood chip. He's saying there might have been a better result had the compost used been more "finished" like the Malibu compost he showed in the comparison shot
@@NCharlesworth86 I have a wood-chip heavy compost and it did not do well. Sadly pandemic is having an effect on me getting bulk better compost. My own compost piles are still in work. We've only been in our location for a year. This year I have collected sea weed to add to my one pile, the other pile is chicken/duck manure. I am working on getting a variety of minerals and whatnot into my composts. But still, wish we could get bulk cow or sheep.
My soil is crap but compost addition has really helped... When I'm planting i usually see 10 worms surfacing in every single square foot. My hard clay soil is becoming allot softer and easier to work with where there's allot of worm activity. I started experimenting with no-dig last year and to be honest it is so much easier, there's barely any weeding to do! And plus the plants are definitely doing better since the compost has helped with moisture retention. Planting is easier too because the soil isn't setting like concrete anymore.
I add a small layer of vermicomposting (usually has more than a few worm eggs) and 2-4 inches of normal garden compost in fall, then another 2 inches in spring. my plants LOVE it! the worms make short order of mixing the top layer at the same time as enriching it.
Interesting, as said variables are to high, plants may like a different soil just as a variable 😀 My father put compost in the lower level of the bed, if the roots want it it will go down to get it. Just add a little compost before planting new crop.
I like what you have to say about incorporating compost into the soil but not tilling to deeply or over tilling. Its all about shallow minimum tillage. Also its important to grow covercrops in rotation with veggies.
Very good advice. I never thought about the types of bacteria at the early stages of composting not being so good for the plants so be sure your compost has had plenty of time to work. 😊
I have rocky clay soil at home and can attest to the fact that putting roots in the soil is the number one biggest contribiter to being able to grow incredibly. Compost/organic matter is vital but secondary. I initially let the weeds grow, pulled them out and then planted my choice of seed in their place, letting my choice plants drop seed on top of weed seed for the following season; then rince and repeat for Autum/Winter. I couldn't afford much in terms of compost but what little I could afford, I spread out thinly. I also made weed tea from my plucked weeds and would occationally fertilise with that. Now with all that, let me tell you, from from Spring to Spring, in only 1 year, my plants grew 2-4 times the size they started at, depending on the plant. Including chopping and dropping, I stopped watering at the start of my second year and just watched in amazement as my garden thrived. I'll only be watering to start new seed but some have already come up by themselves from the previous seasons dropped seed. So ja... all in all, I am of the opinion than we need less compost/organic matter than we think, at least I do. The roots do one hell of a job in tilling and feeding the micro biology in the soil for a good start. I'll be trying cover crops this time; intead of weeds. Happy gardening! 😊
I did a flipped sod bed this year and putting 4 inches of “super soil” mix on top from the landscaping company 2parts compost to 3 parts top soil. I’m hoping this will work out good
High organic content means lots of air pockets which allow air flow, (and oxygenation of the soil), which help the water evaporate, hence the drying out...
Hey. My Italian grandmother boiled noodles separately and spooned her rich, thick "Sunday Sauce" directly on the noodles. However, she'd add the pasta water directly to a lighter sauce, say a primavera, the starch thickening the sauce. Could be a northern Italian thing, though, since she was born in Tuscany and her own mother from Piedmont.
Hi Diego (My name is Nir and I am from Israel so sorry my English) the idea behind planting medium is to find a material that on the one hand can absorb large amounts of water and on the other hand drain excess water well and even leave the planting medium airy and allow microorganisms to grow in it. Compost is simply a readily available growing medium and usually cheaper than growing media such as Coconut fiber that are used as a growth medium for hydroponic crops. In the process of preparing the compost, the micro-organisms that help break down the plant material consume most of the nutrients that were in the plant material, so compost is found to be very low in nutrients. The compost must be enriched with nutrients that can be from animals manure. In intensive agriculture, chemical-based fertilizers are used. Therefore, the advantage of a thick layer of compost is in maintaining optimal humidity of the growing medium. (of course required to enrich the compost with fertilizer) Thanks for all the interesting videos you make Nir
Digging my garden i notised some clay present in my soil ,as you said it is an asset to your garden,i seeded my plants(Ottawa)in the planting room using only fish emoltion to give them some food (5-1-1) and waching plants how they react.So far so good.Soon,after while in real garden i will have to change NPK(also made some compost),but some clever people would say that it should be ready in 6 mths.(imposible),depends where you live.I acctually like the idea of using solube once,the best way to feed plants,if they need.What do you think?.We have thousands ideas about how to do it right in the garden and it is up to you to experiment and learn from mistakes.
my best area is an area where my compost bin used to be. compost has been moved, the soil there, i guess the compost washed down into the soil, is black about 18"/45cm down. leaves have been my go to and because the rotting leaves have so many worms in there moving and mixing the layers, its the best i have been able to do to recreate that deep black soil.
Once you water the plants, the leachate/juice from the compost feeds the fungus in the soil from which microbes and other organisms benefit from and so does your plants. The fungal network can grow beyond your own yard. You should have done the experiment in containers.
I watched this video last year but still went ahead and got 3 yds of compost ( good quality) from the city. Incorporate it with my garden bed that was 3 years old. Results were worst! Nothing grew well in that. Soil got dried out so much.
I love the idea, and the very valid and thought provoking discussion around it, but I think truly the most concrete takeaway of the experiment itself is that the compost you used for it is awful. There are numerous brands that have this "compost" that is basically fine woodchips with a little chicken manure. I like buying it to mix with good true compost to just make it go a little further by adding some filler. But that is what it is- woody filler. Nearly any plant is not going to like being planted into that. Do this experiment with half decent, vaguely finished compost and.... well I don't know to be honest! But I would be curious to see the results. To be fair this was mostly addressed in the video but not (in my opinion) to the degree it ought to. This stuff is compost on a technicality. A very interesting video nonetheless. Love the work you are doing Diego!
Interesting video and test. Thanks for sharing! Would love to see the exact same test, with each bed mulched with a batch of fresh and/or actively composting wood chips. Thinking about the Paul Gouchi method...
well after going through the comments ive come to the realization that everybody has sucess doing different things.. but for me.. an exotic tree grower in a cool wet temperate climate, i do beleive that organic matter can cause rot issues if used as soil or even if touching the base of the trunks, i think the veggies we all grow have adapted with our strange ways and can be grown in anything, but after visiting the forest, its very clear to me that there was 4 inches of compost on top of a grey layer of organic free loamy soil, i just want to basically know if too much of this compost layer or O horizon could cause problems, id think plants would germinate in this horizon in nature, but perhaps different plants have different homes, Gary Matsuoka does say a few types of plants can handle low oxygen environments but he sure seems to think that sand is a way better soil than compost, its so interestiiiing and can only really be clarified by experiments like this, trust me i try, i put 5 watermelon seedlings into 5 different growing mediums, 1 loam, 1 super fine old compost that has soil and urine in it because its been placed on and scraped off pot surfaces many times, 1 fresh unsifted compost from my pile, 1 potting soil from the store, 1 pure clay, 1 pure sand, well.. as usual.. something went wrong eg slugs or whtever, and only the ones in sand and potting soil survived, this bs always happens lol hence why after 7 years of trying to figure out the best soil i am still eternally perplexed and obsessed
I was listening to Gary today and what he was saying makes so much sense! Definitely happy I saw all of this before trying to amend with compost or even no dig! Thanks for your two cents.
That is some interesting food for thought. Thankfully I won't have "too much compost" problem as the compost that I can buy in our region is having not so great quality (there are pieces of plastic, broken glass, wires and other garbage). So I learn to make my own compost which is not very big amount :-) And I'm using the green manure which actually provides compost of its own kind but also puts root into the ground and grows soil. From time to time I add horse manure.
Hello Diego . I have my second yaer of a small garden now. My compost heep is pure funges special in the grass u put in . Is it still usable in the garden? Some Friends of me rond me not to sur it and throw it away wat is bad because there are much of woody materials in it
@@DiegoFooter not really. If you have heavy clay that turns to stone when dry needs alot of compost to break it up or it wont uptake any water at all. Otherwise all you have is a brick or pond bottom
My wife makes spaghetti that way, and I make mine the real way. She always tells me that her way is better, but now I'm going to use this video to prove her wrong. Thanks for that Diego. 👍
@@johndeggendorf7826 No problems on the home front here. You can't argue against a actual Italian grandfather, and in the end she begrudgingly accepted defeat.
Jeremy Nodine ...glad to hear that. Grandfather knows best...according to my mother (born in 1921) during the Great Depression my “off the boat” Italian grandfather fed half the town with his garden. Probably a slight exaggeration, but good old fashioned wisdom for 2020. 🌹🌹🌹What a woman!
Interesting topic Diego. Thanks for all your work. Been following you on and off for years. Just finished the 4 Foundation Courses of the Soil Food Web School. If you or your viewers wish to get some great insight on what compost is and how it benefits growing systems, look into what Elaine Ingham, a super resource on the subject, has to say on the matter; the Queen of Bio Complete Compost...check it out. She blew my mind and opened my eyes to a whole new world. Thanks again for being such a great leader! All the best to you and your family.
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I agree with much of what you said but I want to see this test made with good compost. What you used is basically mulch, or soil conditioner at best, it might actually be sucking nutrients out of its surroundings as it continues to decompose.
Yup, composted wood chips are better used as mulch. it's definitely not compost.
@@brandonstahl3562 I used a professional compost.....In my case the problem was the fact that, in full sun, it dried in an hour. When i watered 3 times a day, I obtained a good result. So, in my case, the problem was one: the compost is like a sponge that dries out when climate is hot.
I get the point, particularly about balancing compost and soil so that you have the right mix of minerals, nutrients, and beneficial life. However, please repeat this experiment with a better compost, ideally homemade compost with a good mix of "brown" and "green" material. I realize that by using bagged compost you get consistency, but I assume you can get some bulk compost delivered, from a source that uses a more "traditional" blend of ingredients. A lot of the bagged stuff has been sterilized. An advantage of the locally-sourced bulk compost is that it's more likely to have a decent blend of bacteria and fungi.
If you have sand, clay, silth rocks or pebbles in your soil and who doesnt you have all the nutrients, what your lacking is the biology to make it available to your plants.
Studies been made long time ago, there is no soil on this planet lacking the nutrients.
I grow in 100% compost in all 8 of my raised beds. I started this way. In ground works fine too. But pure compost should never burn.
@@patrickmeyer9419 J'agree
@@patrickmeyer9419 Pure soil never burns.
An interesting experiment, but I think it needs to be repeated in various soil types. My own soil in Norfolk, UK is virtually sand and gets depleted very quickly. As ever, I think one learns to be a good gardener (if you are paying attention) in the conditions that you garden in. Many lessons, however, do not readily transplant into different environments and conditions.
Experiment just proved it was a very shity compost with no availible nitrogen. I can grow everything in pots in my home made compost. And only compost nothing else. Sometimes I add a little bit of river sand just to have better drainage. I can grow seedlings and also huge plants. Of course I tried growing just in soil and also in soil amended with compost... Pure compost with one third of sand gives best results every time.
Diego, I really like what you had to say at the end of this video, about putting yourself out there, and don’t be afraid of making some mistakes. I personally need to be more like that.
Had parsley self seed a few years back ... was horrified at first because it returned with a vengeance .... but now those massive deep roots and huge solar panels seem to have massively improved those beds ... effectively a free cold season cover that’s edible and improving my soil - inattention for the win !🤙🤣
Lmao wait… your yard got full of parsley or what?
I was going to say the bed with more compost at least an inch or two would be better until I saw the compost you were using. As soon as I saw it was Kellogg I said to myself the least amount added most likely, but even that was to much, lol. I love it. Kellogg's compost is really mulch.
Yep. That shit's terrible. I have used it on top as a mulch though.
@@KevinSmith-dq9tz yeah as mulch it's pretty good, but it's not compost by any stretch of the imagination.
@@vonries Agreed. I bought 2 bags once just to see. Once I saw it I thought, what the hell am I going to do with this shit. Haha. OK then, mulch it is.
You should try this with homemade compost. I tried kellogg's once and found it to be crap. My plants did terrible in it and I would never buy it again.
I have found that kellogs amend does not amend soil, even in the long run somehow. It just is terrible. Better to collect leaves and clippings and mix them into sandy or other soils. Or if you buy it for nutrition, just use fertilizer. As our hydroponic friends know, you can grow more productive plants in inert mediums or water with just the right ingredients.
I agree with this. I don't know why but store bought compost is nothing compared to making it yourself with grass and leaves and scraps.
I was gonna say... that compost looks more like mulch. AKA the stuff you use to stop plants from growing on your paths and under your trees. Think about that for a second...
I bought Kellogg’s raised bed “soil” and found it to be mostly wood pieces. My garden isnt doing super well. Anything I can do to help my beds this year? I’m a super noob.
@@thatlibertygal lots of organic matter. Buy bagged manure of you have to
I’m a beginner at gardening and dug about 3 - 4 feet deep lol and added compost of all kinds from food, brown leave’s, branches, green leaves, sand, and homemade compost dirt and everything is looking beautiful! I’m a beginner lol. All this is an experiment.
I had sandy soil. I added a bunch of compost when we first moved here to start building the soil. Now, 5 years later I am planting winter rye cover crops and am not pulling my garden plants (other than root plants) but am cutting them at the surface and leaving the roots. I add pine shavings after planting to keep weeding to a minimum and just leave them in the beds to decay. I have added worms and took up vermiculture last year and will use that soil in a couple beds to test it out. Experimenting with this is fun.
I did this experiment with a fig tree. The copy with compost & part shade did the worst, the one with compost & full sun did the best, & the one in full sun but no compost did average. At times the added compost would heat up the soil by almost 10 degrees in comparison to surrounding soils.
Last year I planted corn in one bed. Instead of pulling the stalks out after picking the corn, I cut it of at ground level and planted field peas. After picking peas I cut them off at ground level and planted a mixed cover crop of ten different plants. I will cut them down and leave them and plant through them. It will be interesting to see the crop results.
This year i did the same with tomatos and cucumbers. I have very light, powdery soil - so i want to see if leftover roots will make a difference in the amount of organic matter in the soil.
I used to dig out my clay soil when planting a new plant and replaced it with a fresh sand,soil,compost mix. Fast forward a few years and now instead of replacing the clay soil with my mix, I blend it in with it.
GREAT video! I've been very confident with my half-inch layer of compost + cover cropping without any real evidence as to *why* I should be confident, and now I have some well thought out backup! Like other commenters I do like adding in the fall (I have an off season) in conjunction with my winter cover crops. Gives it time to mellow out and integrate into my soil.
The Kellogg's amend looks like what I would use for top dressing, and pull away to plant in the soil beneath. Moisture retention is nice in that type of compost, but I wouldn't plant into it. Nice breakdown DF.
Agree that in about a year, with good rain, the beds with more compost will be great. Also, here in Texas I learned the value of about 5-10% expanded shale when gardening in black clay. Beds to which I added shale 10 years ago, and have only mulched & planted since, are beautiful, perfectly friable and moist (in the spring & fall) 6-8" deep
I once thought that compost...I make my own... was the answer to everything. I now mix it with my clay areas as an amendment and it works very well. I too discovered that I got weak growth with plants that were in heavy compost.
Conpost is amazing, time is the ingredient that compost needs most to create a healthy biomass
I put 3" of compost I brought in on my beds this past summer, and some crops did well while others did not at all. The parsnips did best, and they were very deep rooted, so that suggests they got their nutrients from below where the compost reached. I'll be interested in seeing how things do next year with more integration. On the other hand, the most vigorous winter squash plant I ever had was a volunteer growing out of my compost pile - no soil there...
A couple of years ago, potatoes popped up in my compost pile. They sure we're a tasty surprise.
I think you are right that it depends on the soil you're working with. If you have soil already rich in organic matter, you don't need to add more. I think we have to look at what our soil composition is and add what is needed to achieve the desired ratio of organic to inorganic components.
No, I disagree. Only the likelihood that the base topsoil that is being used is probably decent saved part of the experiment and skewed the results.
In fact, if the objective was really to measure the effectiveness of compost either as an amendment or as a replacement, the experiment should probably have been run on a top soil of pure sand to remove the variability of the top soil effect. My prediction is that if the experiment was done with sand, that all 4 plots would fail because the compost quality in this experiment is no good.
@@tonysu8860 I would agree with you sir. It was a poor compost. You can grow things in pots with pure compost. Homemade high quality compost and have great results. Much better results than with heavy clay soil.
I was so excited for the results of this test. It’s interesting that 1 and 4 did the best. I would have expected the results to be more linear. I just started building soil in March, but it’s already got lots of fungal growth. I have been attributing it to our compost/vermicompost tea that we’ve been making and applying. Maybe the benefit of that is that it’s in liquid form and can permeate the soil to greater depths. There’s no question that the harvests have been prolific and abundant. Thank you for contributing this video for the benefit of us all.
Oh my gosh, as a newbie to gardening and having started my very first beds in lockdown I went for a ‘no dig’ approach and dumped compost onto cardboard covered mossy grass. I also had an area that had been covered by weed suppressant and gravel for 5yrs. I added blood fish and bones to the compost and went for it. Despite liquid feeding every week once fruiting I couldn’t understand why although my plants got off to a great start and always looked pretty healthy they weren’t as tall as other people’s plants, they didn’t bulb up as quickly or as well and they fruited much later than others. Here in Cornwall UK we’ve had weeks of hot dry weather, unusually strong gale force winds, torrential rain and humidity so it’s been tough but..... talk about a baptism of fire! Now at the end of my first season I’ve had some successes, some epic fails but overall despite the shear volume of seeds and potting on I did I have to say I thought we’d be eating like kings but that wasn’t the case. I’m totally inexperienced but I was beginning to think my soil must be the problem but looking on line nobody seems to mention the soil they start with. I’m so glad I watched your experiment so I at least can see my results are not all my fault, it has boosted my confidence and spurred me on to keep trying. Thanks 🙏🏼
It sounds like they were slightly nitrogen stressed. If you just put down the cardboard on fresh grass, it was probably leaching nitrogen while it decomposed. It will return that in spades, but fibrous material like grass and cardboard take a lot of nitrogen to break down. Those beds should do better in the future. Potentially a lot better, depending on your specific circumstances.
Thanks John that’s a great help. I’m also on a particularly heavy clay soil and when I took som plants out I noticed the roots were struggling to get through compacted clay so took the decision to dig it over down to about 18” and mix manure and b/f/bone right through. It did help a bit but I still had the same problem. My beetroot for example was planted in the beginning of March. Always seemed healthy and we did have a small amount through the summer but most was still in the ground in October and still only a large golf ball size. I’m still totally confused how I’ve managed to help my friend get started on line and she has had much better harvests than me 🤷🏼♀️
What you just proof with your experiment is exactly what I learned from my grandparents when I was a child. I started gardening at age 70 (yes I still look like in the picture) using my ancestors practices, and I’m getting much better result than adding tons of organic material (compost). Most important has been add tilt a fool deep.
Maybe the best video I’ve seen about soil vs compost. Thank you!!!!
I think it's best just to mulch the surface of the soil with compost, maybe an inch or 2. It gets the plants off to a good start, then once the roots hit the soil they really take off in the height of summer, with the abundance of trace minerals they need, provided you have good soil
The Kellogg's looks more like mulch, not compost, and your test trial demonstrates this point. Try your test using good compost, perhaps the malibu, and see what happens. Successful no-till market gardeners like Josh Satin and Casey Ostwich at Honey Tree Farm use a couple of inches of compost on top of soil (with dry amendments) before planting with great results.
Yes, I think you are correct. That being said I am not sure that the compost helps the present crop as much as it helps later crops.
Yes, but Jesse from no-till growers uses a mulch type compost and does well. Not sure it maters as long as it is biologically active.
As a second season grower I appreciate this video very much. So many people preach nothing but compost and when I priced compost here versus a 3:1 mix (soil, compost and pray) compost is super expensive. Now I realize everyones growing zone and native soul are all different.... We have a more clay soil here in Ottawa, Ontario Canada and I was surprised at what just grew in place. My tomatoes did amazing without anything but woodchips on top to hold in moisture. My new hoophouse, I covered everything in cardboard and woodchips through winter. Due to covid and frozen soil it was hard to get much more than last year's bags. So I just dug a hole for each tomatoe plant and let them fight it out. I think I added a bit of fertilizer and eventually calcium towards end. But my point is let the plants tell you what they need.... Plus everyone that says compost COMPOST turns around adds piles of amendments.... So I love that you addressed the soil as a whole. Yrs top dress, broad or pitch fork, and amend as needed but the plants will make a away....
Laguna Hills Nursery's Gary Matsuoka would have likely said 1 or 2. Not sure if you've follow him at all, he makes Gary's Top Pot and Gary's Acid Mix. He is a huge proponent of not adding too much organice matter.
Agriculture knows this. But for some reason, in horticulture we are told "compost compost compost!!" ..most plants love loam and sandy loam. Yes they need nutrients, yes compost has a purpose...but not all plants love living in other "dead rotten plants" as Gary would say
Thanks for telling me about Gary. I will check him out. I really do think the more I garden that organic matter is good, but it is like a lot of things, moderation is key. Deep rooted plants do most for the deeper layers of soil by creating channels that newer roots can follow down later on. One of the reasons is it is so good to not pull roots.
gary taught me everything i know, yet im a more-on at heart so although id never mix organic matter into soil, i do still wonder if i could have like 8 inches of compost on top of soil and plant into that instead of planting into the soil beneath, would really make things super easy, he told me to plant in the soil and that i cant have too much compost on top of the soil, but i suuure love my compost :p
My response? This citizen scientist says “deep” and Inspiring, thank you Diego. I especially latched onto your thoughts on a deep integrated approach including the value of roots we bring into our garden. Past years, plant harvests done and I pull them up including their roots, examining and noticing root health. This year I’m going to be much more apt to clipping oldplants at the surface and valuing old decaying roots left in place, kind of like Ma Nature does for us. Hopeful for a good learn. Appreciate you.
Did a few cubic yards of potting mix mostly compost (about 80%). Most plants not happy, and the top 4-6 inches dry out quick because the mix couldn't hold water. So I had to water almost daily (I hate wasting water, but hate wilting leaves more). Will add peat moss.
Really interesting. I have very little access to compost in the desert. We mix what we have with water, aerated it, water the dirt with it and cover the soil with cardboard and sawdust to reduce evaporation. There is no way we can do a Charles Dowding style garden. We depend on nitrogen fixing trees to fix up the soil.
What I learn from Diego’s experiment and the comments is that the term “compost” can mean many different things. Perhaps a good experiment would be testing the results of planting using different types of compost.
My compost has lots of strawberry caps and leafy greens and asparagus ends. Too much carbon in your compost. It should be a gradient with deeper soil having more worm castings and actual dirt, mid layer a good mix of dirt and compost and then more compost at the top, top it off with light mulch like straw. Grow cover crops in off seasons to replenish the soil and become compost itself
@@toastiesburned9929 Yes and as gardeners we must recognize that most plants do not grow well in pure organic matter or high organic matter soil. The agricultural departments in my area recommend soils to have a 1% to a 6% organic matter in them as too much organic matter can cause root rot .
@@crissalda1306 the flowers in pots on my patio grow in 100% organic matter. They are doing great.
Omg-The spaghetti example-perfect-so true.Made me hit subscribe.This is why I’m making mound gardens and moving them every few years with companion planting.Most soil in bags isn’t even soil and beginners get frustrated when they spend so much money on plants then use the crap soil and the plants cant even drink the water.Thank you for this video.
Thanks, watched this about a month ago and have been thinking about my problem. I think you nailed it. I added compost that wasn't completely done and had terrible results. From now on I will add it in the Fall, like right now. I know my problem was also HOW much time I put into Gardening, Thanks again, and if you could do a test on adding in the fall vs in the spring. I would like your opinion.
Rule, put your compost down in the fall not the spring. There is no such thing as too much compost and compost make a great water holder. The compost will be eaten by soil life and distributed deep in the soil by earthworms. But dont forget to put compost in the FALLL !
yup! yup! more better! especially when you have to use less than ideal compost. give the soil time to build.
Great advice if you don't have a growing season during late autumn/winter. As you can leave the bed fellow during that time.
For me down here in Melbourne, Australia. I find that once a bed has bee harvested, add some new manure and compost let it sit for a week or so, then seed/plant into.
@@matthewfarrell317 Its true for your country. Its better to leave it in 4 season countries
oh the controversy in everything we do in our lives lol ive been taught by a soil scientist and researcher to never mix organic matter into soil, go look in the forest, 4 inches of compost on top of CLEAN soil free of organic matter, organic matter needs oxygen to decompoze or it rots aneorobically, what i want to know, is if there was like 6 8 inches of compost on top of the soil, does that even happen in forests? and if it does, maybe is it a bad things that suffocates the soil and stops moisture getting to the soil? is too much organic matter creating a dead zone for plants and a alive zone for fungi? annoying how complicated simple things are
There is absolutely such a thing as too much compost. Look into eutrophication and excess phosphorus in gardens due to excess compost.
My experience this year equals bed #5 almost exactly. My only good producer was the Asian yard-long bean, and they were spectacular. I think next year will be great for everything else. I also just found a great source of rabbit manure and brought home 100 pounds this weekend.
Thanks for the update. Interesting results.
You offer allot of great insight and material to contemplate.
For instance, This year, I brought in allot od compost.
Layered it on and planted as close to the original soil as possible but... I noticed many plants only began to take off when their roots penetrated deeper into the soil below.
That is where the moisture and minerals are.
Also, There is so much discussion about no dig or no till gardening but... It can create that separation between the compost and mulch layers above the originals soil and sometime needs to be opened up with a digging fork, or a broad fork to let the blending of the layers begin.
IF machinery is available for the initial garden layout, doing several tills to open up the soil and till in amendments such as compost and minerals.
Soil Testing is not cheap but perhaps we could do a better job adding amendments IF we know what we are already starting with.
In closing, the No Till approach is a great way yo start new beds, just layer on the cardboard or paper, then compost and then mulch. But before the next season... get in there and crack that barrier open,
Keep up the great work, W
Hey Diego. No question about it, anything that I can add to our soil out here is a plus. My sons and I live in a mid high valley of the Mojave desert, 70 miles south of Vegas. Nothing out here but a few shades of grey, tan and black. Once the heat breaks a bit, we're going to take bits and pieces of a few systems to build a good foundation first. Core gardening, hugelkultur, lasagna lightly mixed into top few inches, heavy JADAM with several apps of JMS and JLF every 4 to 5 days. We're having to go natural with what very limited local resources that we can scratch up because of the way things have been. But, I have hundreds of seeds that I've saved over time, including over 1,500 moringa seeds. Providing things don't go FUBAR any time soon, I know, that's asking a lot, we'd like to get a good strong microclimate intense grow food forest going, not just for ourselves, but so we can pay it forward to the local community and nearby food banks.
Gotta try to teach these young men something while I'm still kicking. ;-)
1st year beds 1 just layered cardboard and a ton of mostly mushroom compost and some garden soil. First year kinda sucked. Needed a lot of water. Disease and pest issues. Second year added "organic fertilizer" little better but still a lot of pests. Decided to turn the soil to interrupt any pest over wintering. I have clay and rock (reason I did no dig to begin with). My plants did much better. I'm seeing much more worms and it's holding water much better. Not planning to till anymore but I am glad I did. Leaving roots and piling my leaves and green mulch this winter. Making LAB and potassium for next year and buried kitchen scraps in some areas. We shall see next season.
In plot one the plants would have access to a lot more mycorrhizal fungi than the other plots, it would be interesting to see the results of years 2 3 and 4 after the layers have mixed a bit and it's had an opportunity for the fungi to enter
It might be an interesting experiment to leave those beds alone for a year and try the experiment again.
I grow in 100% compost so I figure maybe I need to watch this... Kinda shocked, I have the best gardens growing in 100% compost in a raised bed. Maybe its the way I compost. All my raised beds are built over a chicken run from the previous year. Even my Legumes did well which I was not expecting.
My composts come in stages and it can take up to 18 months for the materials to make it through the process which includes having chickens scratch and break things down for up to a year before it goes into the 6 month compost pile. Who knows what lead to my success. Maybe the worm feeding stations in the worm beds allowed me to grow in 100% compost. I do not even add nutrients and I have robust growth and fruiting. Ok one admission I need to make, I did have to add Calcium because what I had intended to use the compost for (evergreen production) was shifted to growing vegetables.
We do the same for raised beds 100% compost and have amazing results. But it has to be already composted compost wood chip compost must be finished with a fungal process to stop it from sponging up all the nutrients and of coarse make it hydrophilic (i.e. a wet rotten log)
compost is never finished, 99 percent of it turns to c02 and flys away, its the "tea" that is what fertilizes and conditions soil, it turns out the percent of organic matter in soil samples was actually live plant roots that got chopped up and mistaken for soil organic matter in analysis, if you are growing in straight compost, according to science, your heading for problems, though i know john kohler also grows in beds of pure compost, so im curious, i was taught by a soil scientist and second generation nursery man
John Liberty- Similar here. My best results have been with a 24 months compost. Yes, that's 2 years! Well broken down, really "finished". if we can use such expression! On the creepy side of the story, the reason behind it was a cat! A dead cat! Unfortunately lost one cat. Which also went to the compost pile! For more or less obvious reasons. Neither me or my wife wanted to "see" any of it. So 24 months after, the most amazing compost I ever used was "finished". Curious detail in 24 months, EVERYTHING that was once a cat disappeared! And I mean bones, teeth, etc. just amazing compost as final result!
Compost and time walk side by side!
So called commercial compost like the one on this video. Is a good proof that "bad" compost can be highly detrimental. Worse when you think that one actually payed for it! :-(
@@crpth1 Joel salatin compost all of his dead animals and all the organs and offal from his other operations in wood chips and according to him an entire cow will be broken down in as little as 6 months
That's because you have "real" composted material. What he's using is junk. Any natural soil would grow better plants without that junk. They're taking people's money for a product that actually hurts your gardens. That Malibu is actually pretty damned good though. I used to get a mushroom compost that was good too. Yet it has gone to shit now too. Just like the black kow manure. It's all chips and crap now too.
I have heavy glacial clay soil and I'm in a high desert. I make my own slow no turn fungal dominant compost with lots of worms and millipedes living in it and I either put one cup of it in a hole and plant a seed in it or I plant in the clay and use .5 to 2 inches of my compost as mulch and innoculant. It works great. I also grow plants in it while it's composting. Works great. However, mine is not wood chip based. It's mostly made of weeds and bolted arugula and any browns I have laying around like fall leaves and old pine needles. I do innoculate the hell out of it at the start though, with spectrum, kombucha, bragg's vinegar, old compoat, and some soil from a garden bed.
Sunflowers are a great way to build deep soil fertility. After harvesting the heads and reseeding the stems and leaves get chopped for a surface mulch. Several years of this will drastically improve poor soil. This is what I have been doing in silty soils.
New subscriber here. Hello from far Northern Willamette Valley, Oregon in the lower cascade foothills . I was so impressed with your knowledge, experience and teaching methods I didn’t hesitate to subscribe. I came from a long line of farmers, gardeners and plant lovers. I adore gardening. I love growing useful plants, herbs, etc. Definitely subscribed!
Greatest breakdown of this subject I've seen. Thanks Brother!!
Hey, Diego...this was incredibly informative. You are both educator & coach. I’m inspired...
Positive feedback loop. Applies to water too.
Take two pots of soil, one bare, one with a plant growing. Sun them for 2 hours. Check which pot of soil turns paler.
Everytime, it will be the bare soil. Same amount of water, same sun, but having a plant growing will make the soil lose less water. Even moreso if it's a dry-adapted plant.
This is why forestation of desert lands is possible, and why China has managed to turn Shaanxi (a province almost 2x the size of New York STATE) from a barren white desert into forests and meadows--so much so that they've even been accused of "genociding the desert".
Charles Dowding is a huge advocate of no till planting into compost, but he applies compost in the fall/winter, and it rests until spring plantings.. My best growing area is composed of various composts (woodchips, mushroom, leaf mulch, food scraps, hay, etc) that I added year after year. I did put a winter cover crop and crimp killed in spring and transplanted right into these beds.. I was worried that I was transplanting into a huge amount of root mass, but my plants did phenomenal.. I’m going to apply my deep litter compost to the rest of my beds and winter cover crop them.. Also, are u The Alton Brown of gardening?
I would gladly be the Alton Brown of gardening. :)
Your right, Charles is a big advocate, but he is only adding about 3cm on a yearly basis. It isn't nearly as much as people think it is.
Thanks for your input.
I've followed Charles' work for a long time and finally have a space for planting available now. I've put down cardboard to shade out grass, compost, and now letting it rest for a month before planting into it. I'm also adding aerated compost tea formula to assist with microbe building. It will be interesting to see how it goes.
@@DiegoFooter Carles recommends 10 cm if weedy and 5cm if not weedy
What I always do is keep a rotation of compost going all the time, but only add it in the off season, or when I'm not using a part of the garden. I also don't add it thick enough to cover the ground. I mulch, and that composts directly in, as well as chop and drop in the garden, but I don't pile a lot of finished compost on top of the ground. If I have a lot of compost left over, I sometimes bury it in the garden
If it's completed the compost cycle you can add it any time. My beds get top ups all year round. This video is mostly garbage, using garbage materials.
Nice job !
I totally agree with the results of your experiment. I have had the same results too. the fact is not only compost but also any kind of organic matter would have the same result. and the reason is the bonding effect it has on the nutrients in the soil and the plant would be deprived of nutrients.
Well said, you have changed ideas said, true we incorporate composte similar to nature...most of time in the woods I've seen a thin top layer with composition below.
The lifestyle of nature blows away some of our thinking.
Take care and be safe while, having a great day!
Great experiment. I garden in containers due to a very restrictive condo association. We lose a huge volume of the soil mix every year,: what we, the bugs, and rabbits eat. So I add a lot of compost. I make most of it, but use some store-bought mushroom compost and manure. Your insightful video gives me some food for thought. Maybe I should add boring-old planting mix instead of store-bought composts? It'd be cheaper. And I always have some on hand as a starting mix. Though I'm apprehensive about experimenting too much since I have a lot of success in a small space.
God I hate choices like this.
Containers are tough because you have a limited space to give the plants what they want. I think it is worth trying a few different options - pure compost, compost/potting soil, potting soil, garden soil. I don't garden enough in containers to have any good suggestions here.
I'm a container gardener too! Plants need mainly soil with fertilizing done every couple weeks during the floating and fruiting season. I use store bought organic "Vegetable Planting Soil" (don't buy miracle gro) and mix maybe a third of compared manure in there (also store bought). Also I put in a few scoops of milorganite, which is mainly nitrogen. Mix all that together really well before adding seedlings. My container garden has produced very healthy veggies and herbs.
Keeping up with watering is difficult but I like that I can drag the plants into shade on those 90 degree weeks as needed.
I built raised beds this year and filled them with 100% compost and I had my best year if production. Although I used unscreened compost, so there were lots of rocks, twigs and other things.
We did the same 9 years ago and had great results too! the soil was a little too hot for straight carrots though as they do not like high nitrogen or chunky texture.
The beds will sink 4-6 inches every season and you will have to top them off.
By year 5 it will start to get a little heavy for some root crops and perhaps need to be lightened up we used a tremendous amount of pearlite to a accomplish this.
Add in some bio char and amendments we now have super soil.....
So glad to watch this, I have been mix a lot of clay in my compose, to stretch it. I was fearing I had taken it to far, but my intuition was right, it would work out. 😅😅🤞🏻🙌🏻
In his no till market garden book, Jessie Frost distinguishes 5 types of compost.
I don't worry about minerals much bc I have well water that is quite heavy. (In our home we have filtration for drinking water only)
When I make my own compost, I innocuolate layers of the compost with soil or finished compost, or items in the finished compost that did not go through the screen.
I only amend soil with finished compost.
When adding mulch or unfinished compost, you must water very well to saturate the top layer and let moisture reach the underlying soil.
Just stumbled across your content. Really enjoyed the video and looking forward to watching more 👍🏻
I top dress compost in the fall, let it sit throughout the winter and start planting in the spring. Soil needs time to adapt to the compost.
Love the approach, I knew when I seen the different piles this was going to be good
If you have ever seen cucumbers growing out of a compost pile then you know the compost you used was not quality compost. It was bark mulch. This was more misleading than helpful.
Would you care to clarify? I can't wrap my head around what you're actually saying...
Peace.
@@mourlyvold7655 he's saying that the compost he used wasn't actually compost, it was just basically small raw un- broken down wood chip. He's saying there might have been a better result had the compost used been more "finished" like the Malibu compost he showed in the comparison shot
@@NCharlesworth86 Thank you.
I think he explained that in the beginning right after he compared the two.
@@NCharlesworth86 I have a wood-chip heavy compost and it did not do well. Sadly pandemic is having an effect on me getting bulk better compost. My own compost piles are still in work. We've only been in our location for a year. This year I have collected sea weed to add to my one pile, the other pile is chicken/duck manure. I am working on getting a variety of minerals and whatnot into my composts. But still, wish we could get bulk cow or sheep.
My soil is crap but compost addition has really helped... When I'm planting i usually see 10 worms surfacing in every single square foot. My hard clay soil is becoming allot softer and easier to work with where there's allot of worm activity.
I started experimenting with no-dig last year and to be honest it is so much easier, there's barely any weeding to do! And plus the plants are definitely doing better since the compost has helped with moisture retention. Planting is easier too because the soil isn't setting like concrete anymore.
I add a small layer of vermicomposting (usually has more than a few worm eggs) and 2-4 inches of normal garden compost in fall, then another 2 inches in spring. my plants LOVE it! the worms make short order of mixing the top layer at the same time as enriching it.
Interesting, as said variables are to high, plants may like a different soil just as a variable 😀
My father put compost in the lower level of the bed, if the roots want it it will go down to get it.
Just add a little compost before planting new crop.
You make a lot of sense and it is very reasonable.
Too much compost maybe my problem.
All things in moderation.
Moderation.
Balance.
Thanks. Regards.
I like what you have to say about incorporating compost into the soil but not tilling to deeply or over tilling. Its all about shallow minimum tillage. Also its important to grow covercrops in rotation with veggies.
Very good advice. I never thought about the types of bacteria at the early stages of composting not being so good for the plants so be sure your compost has had plenty of time to work. 😊
I have rocky clay soil at home and can attest to the fact that putting roots in the soil is the number one biggest contribiter to being able to grow incredibly. Compost/organic matter is vital but secondary. I initially let the weeds grow, pulled them out and then planted my choice of seed in their place, letting my choice plants drop seed on top of weed seed for the following season; then rince and repeat for Autum/Winter. I couldn't afford much in terms of compost but what little I could afford, I spread out thinly. I also made weed tea from my plucked weeds and would occationally fertilise with that.
Now with all that, let me tell you, from from Spring to Spring, in only 1 year, my plants grew 2-4 times the size they started at, depending on the plant.
Including chopping and dropping, I stopped watering at the start of my second year and just watched in amazement as my garden thrived. I'll only be watering to start new seed but some have already come up by themselves from the previous seasons dropped seed.
So ja... all in all, I am of the opinion than we need less compost/organic matter than we think, at least I do. The roots do one hell of a job in tilling and feeding the micro biology in the soil for a good start.
I'll be trying cover crops this time; intead of weeds.
Happy gardening! 😊
Hmmm, a lot of good points here that never occurred to me before. Thanks.
I did a flipped sod bed this year and putting 4 inches of “super soil” mix on top from the landscaping company 2parts compost to 3 parts top soil. I’m hoping this will work out good
How did it workout?
High organic content means lots of air pockets which allow air flow, (and oxygenation of the soil), which help the water evaporate, hence the drying out...
Hey. My Italian grandmother boiled noodles separately and spooned her rich, thick "Sunday Sauce" directly on the noodles. However, she'd add the pasta water directly to a lighter sauce, say a primavera, the starch thickening the sauce. Could be a northern Italian thing, though, since she was born in Tuscany and her own mother from Piedmont.
Not sure. It just doesn't taste as good (to me) unless you cook the sauce and the pasta together.
Depends on which compost and what crop. Can you really extrapolate cucumber yield to tomato yields?
Hi Diego (My name is Nir and I am from Israel so sorry my English)
the idea behind planting medium is to find a material that on the one hand can absorb large amounts of water and on the other hand drain excess water well and even leave the planting medium airy and allow microorganisms to grow in it. Compost is simply a readily available growing medium and usually cheaper than growing media such as Coconut fiber that are used as a growth medium for hydroponic crops. In the process of preparing the compost, the micro-organisms that help break down the plant material consume most of the nutrients that were in the plant material, so compost is found to be very low in nutrients. The compost must be enriched with nutrients that can be from animals manure. In intensive agriculture, chemical-based fertilizers are used. Therefore, the advantage of a thick layer of compost is in maintaining optimal humidity of the growing medium. (of course required to enrich the compost with fertilizer)
Thanks for all the interesting videos you make
Nir
Gabe Brown emphasizes always keeping a living root in the ground!
Digging my garden i notised some clay present in my soil ,as you said it is an asset to your garden,i seeded my plants(Ottawa)in the planting room using only fish emoltion to give them some food (5-1-1) and waching plants how they react.So far so good.Soon,after while in real garden i will have to change NPK(also made some compost),but some clever people would say that it should be ready in 6 mths.(imposible),depends where you live.I acctually like the idea of using solube once,the best way to feed plants,if they need.What do you think?.We have thousands ideas about how to do it right in the garden and it is up to you to experiment and learn from mistakes.
my best area is an area where my compost bin used to be. compost has been moved, the soil there, i guess the compost washed down into the soil, is black about 18"/45cm down. leaves have been my go to and because the rotting leaves have so many worms in there moving and mixing the layers, its the best i have been able to do to recreate that deep black soil.
Once you water the plants, the leachate/juice from the compost feeds the fungus in the soil from which microbes and other organisms benefit from and so does your plants. The fungal network can grow beyond your own yard. You should have done the experiment in containers.
Thanks for encouraging us to learn!
I watched this video last year but still went ahead and got 3 yds of compost ( good quality) from the city. Incorporate it with my garden bed that was 3 years old. Results were worst! Nothing grew well in that. Soil got dried out so much.
Great experiment. I was rooting for 2.
Much better in this video about explaining mulch!!!! But definitely don’t underestimate how much mineral content is in compost!
I would think the mineral content in compost depends on many factors. Is there a guidline to be found somewhere?
If you gave more time the soil life would have proper time to turn the compost into plant available nutrients. Great video!
I think you are right.
I love the idea, and the very valid and thought provoking discussion around it, but I think truly the most concrete takeaway of the experiment itself is that the compost you used for it is awful. There are numerous brands that have this "compost" that is basically fine woodchips with a little chicken manure. I like buying it to mix with good true compost to just make it go a little further by adding some filler. But that is what it is- woody filler. Nearly any plant is not going to like being planted into that. Do this experiment with half decent, vaguely finished compost and.... well I don't know to be honest! But I would be curious to see the results. To be fair this was mostly addressed in the video but not (in my opinion) to the degree it ought to. This stuff is compost on a technicality. A very interesting video nonetheless. Love the work you are doing Diego!
Interesting video and test. Thanks for sharing!
Would love to see the exact same test, with each bed mulched with a batch of fresh and/or actively composting wood chips. Thinking about the Paul Gouchi method...
Diego, you are the compost King, so inspiring. Thank you!!!
Great approach to learning. I enjoy your wisdom, Diego.
keeping roots in the ground is the key
Some of my best spots had rotted logs buried in ground, amended soil on top, and mulched.
well after going through the comments ive come to the realization that everybody has sucess doing different things.. but for me.. an exotic tree grower in a cool wet temperate climate, i do beleive that organic matter can cause rot issues if used as soil or even if touching the base of the trunks, i think the veggies we all grow have adapted with our strange ways and can be grown in anything, but after visiting the forest, its very clear to me that there was 4 inches of compost on top of a grey layer of organic free loamy soil, i just want to basically know if too much of this compost layer or O horizon could cause problems, id think plants would germinate in this horizon in nature, but perhaps different plants have different homes, Gary Matsuoka does say a few types of plants can handle low oxygen environments but he sure seems to think that sand is a way better soil than compost, its so interestiiiing and can only really be clarified by experiments like this, trust me i try, i put 5 watermelon seedlings into 5 different growing mediums, 1 loam, 1 super fine old compost that has soil and urine in it because its been placed on and scraped off pot surfaces many times, 1 fresh unsifted compost from my pile, 1 potting soil from the store, 1 pure clay, 1 pure sand, well.. as usual.. something went wrong eg slugs or whtever, and only the ones in sand and potting soil survived, this bs always happens lol hence why after 7 years of trying to figure out the best soil i am still eternally perplexed and obsessed
I was listening to Gary today and what he was saying makes so much sense! Definitely happy I saw all of this before trying to amend with compost or even no dig! Thanks for your two cents.
@@ANoteToSelf yea man same, so lucky i didnt ever till haha, cheers!
I experimented this year
I've added my own home grown worm compost tea mixed with peat moss that's been brewing for 24 hours
my plant seems like it
Nice experiment... I did one and the best was the middle but was just 3 beds, none 2 inches and 4.
A good guide for how much to add is and how is the series of videos posted by Charles Dowding.
I like the (true)scientific approach.
Thanks
That is some interesting food for thought. Thankfully I won't have "too much compost" problem as the compost that I can buy in our region is having not so great quality (there are pieces of plastic, broken glass, wires and other garbage). So I learn to make my own compost which is not very big amount :-) And I'm using the green manure which actually provides compost of its own kind but also puts root into the ground and grows soil. From time to time I add horse manure.
Hello Diego . I have my second yaer of a small garden now. My compost heep is pure funges special in the grass u put in . Is it still usable in the garden? Some Friends of me rond me not to sur it and throw it away wat is bad because there are much of woody materials in it
I think it depends on your soil composition is. If you have heavy clay you need more. If it's sandy loam not as much compost.
I think you have that backwards.
@@DiegoFooter not really. If you have heavy clay that turns to stone when dry needs alot of compost to break it up or it wont uptake any water at all. Otherwise all you have is a brick or pond bottom
You are right Kellogs compost soil hindered my garden for sure
My wife makes spaghetti that way, and I make mine the real way. She always tells me that her way is better, but now I'm going to use this video to prove her wrong. Thanks for that Diego. 👍
😆 There is only one way to make spaghetti otherwise it is just noodles and sauce. 😉
Are you ok mate? It’s been 4 days and no update!
Diego Footer ...you know Jeremy and his wife are probably arguing over this spaghetti thing. That mulch and compost analogy was the last...straw.
@@johndeggendorf7826 No problems on the home front here. You can't argue against a actual Italian grandfather, and in the end she begrudgingly accepted defeat.
Jeremy Nodine ...glad to hear that. Grandfather knows best...according to my mother (born in 1921) during the Great Depression my “off the boat” Italian grandfather fed half the town with his garden. Probably a slight exaggeration, but good old fashioned wisdom for 2020. 🌹🌹🌹What a woman!
Interesting topic Diego. Thanks for all your work. Been following you on and off for years. Just finished the 4 Foundation Courses of the Soil Food Web School. If you or your viewers wish to get some great insight on what compost is and how it benefits growing systems, look into what Elaine Ingham, a super resource on the subject, has to say on the matter; the Queen of Bio Complete Compost...check it out. She blew my mind and opened my eyes to a whole new world. Thanks again for being such a great leader! All the best to you and your family.