I feel many protected bike lanes are too narrow to pass other cyclists. I'm not super speedy, but I'm faster than most people I come across on my commute. I often find myself waiting for an intersection to pass them safely without being a dick
Yes, this, plus the idea from my point of view, that there should be 2 way bike lanes on both sides of many main roads. Too many times the necessity to be on the opposite side means having to do a convoluted route that often is about a quarter of a mile or more plus extra lights to wait through. People are not wanting to ride bikes if it is harder for them to do it. A personal example involves my kid, who was raised on a bike, and at 14 doesn't want to ride their bike because; 1. The hills are everywhere, and the bike lane (non separated) roads seem to be on the steeper part of the hill, 2. fear because the bike lane is not separate and cars are always driving into them, and as a part of this, having witnessed people getting slammed with cars. 2 were substantially injured, and one was killed (to be fair the last one was a true accident of events, but, if the bike lane was separated it would have been avoided) 3. the bike lanes that are multiuse, are scary because of pedestrians being unaware, some bikers who seem oblivious to the idea of simple manners while biking, and folks' mobility devices which are driven by folks at top speed and seem to believe they have right of way at all times. My summation is that if one kid, who has been in a bike trailer, or on a bike since shortly after birth, is feeling pushed away, how about all of those people who haven't any familiarity with a bike, but could be persuaded to, if they could feel secure?
@Bronson Ramoutar , and then there is the other bike problem. The so called "motor assisted type", whose rider usually have less knowledge than bicyclist who "share" bike lanes.
You are actually both right: you celebrate success in city-planning, Jane exposes the lack of design experience of the street designers. When the lane's usage grows, you will keep the planners attention. The street designer will do a much better job next time: there are so many examples how it can be done better. It simply takes time to evolve.
There are so many places doing great bike infrastructure. The evolution is already available. This is a lack of priority given to bike routes or a lack of willingness to research case studies. I do think part of what you say makes sense "When the lane's usage grows, you will keep the planners attention." However, if they keep building shitty infrastructure the usage volume won't grow fast enough to get momentum. North America will continue to argue that "no one uses those damn bike lanes. why even build them". That is my worry.
As a dutchie, first thinking it was the separation itself: the unforgiving concrete 90 degrees enclosure of the path, the gutter that is never going to be taking in the water from the car-road or the poles standing on top of the barrier (why is that?) Then hearing Jane with her complaints.. yeah, if you want to make a bike-lane: make sure it's wide (this is barely enough for one, and looks like there is none on the other side of the street), separate it everywhere (so it's not gonna be a parking opportunity) and make sure at the crossing cars are warned/aware the designated space is for bikes. But, it's a first step fellow Tom, Rome isn't built in a day and it takes time for people (and city-planners) to adapt to changing demands: generations of people grown up with the idea the car was the best mode of transport, to see the better alternative is going to take some time.
@@boldvankaalen3896 Just get a Dutch consultant to draw up plans and stick to those plans. North American traffic engineers and city planners have a terrible habit of taking expensive training and trips to Europe but still trying to reinvent the wheel instead of blatantly copying what has been improved for decades and has been found to work great.
the green poles are there for 2 reasons: Visibility so motorists realise there's a new bike path there and for snow removal, so the plow doesn't eat up the curb when it's buried under snow. And that's also another reason why Jane is correct, with winter, everything gets narrower. So the path will indeed get pretty tight with snow/ice buildups on the side.
@@Davmm96 but the car lane barrier (the sidewalk line) doesn't have poles on it and snowplows and motorist seem to do fine with those,so what's so special about the bike lane barrier? If the barrier can't handle a snowplow then maybe they should use different barriers.
@@Arjay404 Mostly because those bike lines are uncommon and smaller than a sidewalk which you can't really miss even if drunk. I can easily picture a drunk driver rolling over that lane without those reflective poles. The barrier will certainly hold up to few plow rams but it's easier to just help the driver to avoid them. Some wider barriers (like on Maisonneuve street, Mtl) don't require poles since they are wider.
@@Shifter_Cycling it's still a lot better than most of the cycling infrastructure in England where if your outside London it's either narrow painted cycle lanes, shared pedestrian cycle paths, paths that are in such awful condition that cycling on the road becomes the safest option
Commenting on an old video but woohoo! I live in that neighbourhood and was one of the people advocating for "proper" bike lanes to be put in when discussing with older community members. They might not be perfect but I like to think they are a step in the right direction! :D
If only more cities did it. Where I live, there was a road that was narrowed a few years ago in quite a lazy way. Rather than doing anything substantial, they just painted away a lane of traffic. They could've easily put in a separated bike lane with the space they freed up, but they just had a painted bicycle lane, and the leftover space seems to only be used occasionally by construction workers who need to park their cars.
I would really love to have separated bike lanes here where I live now. As a beginner, I get nervous when cars and other vehicles come up behind me. Dedicated bike lanes would really help alleviate that anxiety and encourage people to go out there and ride a bike to work or school or wherever. Plus, the environmental benefits would be awesome for future generations.
As a seasoned bike commuter I also get nervous about cars. Having been in three accidents in five years might have something to do with that. So now I mostly stick to sidewalks.
To go to the office I have to cycle 35 km one way. Almost 33 km, including the part I cycle in Amsterdam, is bikelane. It's not completely safe, but in the last 15 years, it is proven to be safe enough. You Americans have a long way to go. Sent your engineers to us, let them see how it's done properly, so they can copy our way of designing bikelanes. You will be thrilled to bike the Dutch way.
Thank you for including Jane’s perspective. And a replay of this video and some note taking is an organized blast of what good advocacy for bike infrastructure should look like. My local twist is a growing burgeoning community whose auto infrastructure is at capacity. Adding bike infrastructure for four season travel will eventually help spread that capacity for workers and commerce.
That is something that car-dependent persons often miss: bike infrastructure is so much more space-efficient, that losing one car lane to an extra-wide bike lane usually does not increase congestion (after a short adjustment period), but rather relieves it - because every person on a bike is not blocking space in a car lane, and you can fit so much more people on a bike lane. In the end, those few people that actually *need* to drive (like delivery traffic, trucks carrying construction materials, or the odd disabled person) actually have a much better experience in bike-friendly environments, just because it takes pressure of the car lanes.
Tom, I had no idea there was a bike lane on 2nd St. I have been using 5th St from 17 Ave to Elbow River pathway when commuting to/from home to office in the summer. Today I used the 2nd St bike lane for the first time. Very safe and pleasant. Thank you for this as well as your ongoing videos. Love them. Keep up the great work.
Well done. Having Jan'es perspective makes it real, and you handled the difference in perspective well. I see things as you do, having ridden around traffic for many years so any improvement is welcome. But people with a different background see things afresh,
Not really. It’s like comparing a punch in the face to a kick in the testicles. Slightly less better than crap but still crap. America is such a outdated third world country. Can’t even grasp the simple concept of protected intersections as well.
@@KandiKlover , my generation of cyclists grew up with John Forester's concept of "Vehicular Cycling" in which you ride on the roads with cars. It can work very well - for the small % of people who feel comfortable doing it. HOWEVER .... To make bicycles an option for most people, we have to have paths/ protected lanes. In many parts of the country, you are correct - the situation is pretty bad.
@@BartAnderson_writer The key to making this work is to slow down cars. Some villages/small towns in Germany have experimented very successfully with the idea of "shared space", but this usually involved adding complexity, speed bumps, planters etc to force motorists to slow down and pay attention. What I feel would help tremendously if in-town speed limits were reduced to 30km/h (from the 50km/h that is the default in Germany). If these speeds are enforced, then riding amongst cars becomes much less stressful, as the speed differential is close to eliminated and thus the (peceived) need for overtaking/passing the cyclist greatly reduced, leading to fewer close passes.
Brilliant. Brilliant! I loved it how, in a relatively short video, you included a comparison between two different types of bike lanes and an oposing opinion to yours, so it's not one-sided. Thank you for the video.
We do have to celebrate new bike infrastructure in our communities! But at the same time, we have to be sure that it is safe, designed for year-round use and wide so that friends and families can ride side by side. These design aspects also mean that your community is planning for the future (cargo bikes, more riders, etc).
I look forward to the day when bikes and pedestrians take over the streets, and cars are shunted off to the side with only a few routes. Hey, I can dream. :-)
@@ivansarajev49 You've clearly never seen proper bike infrastructure. Wide separated cycling paths are the bare minimum needed to make things safe. This is to allow cyclists to safely overtake each other. Giving people the option to cycle next to each other is just an added bonus. As long as you have a bell on your bike, it's is far better than this low quality cycling path. These are the types of cycling paths we here in the Netherlands have alongside old roads in industrial areas where factories and trucks strongly limit how much space there is for cycling paths. Not alongside normal freshly build roads.
With all of the flaws this bike lane might have, it would be welcome in my city. We have zero bike lanes..I have to compete with car, bus and truck traffic daily since it's illegal to ride on the sidewalk.
In my city I don't think there's a single bike route that goes from one place to another, they all randomly stop beore they avtually take you anywhere, not to mention they are those painted bike gutters
as someone who has ridden the 2nd street 'sharrow' road for years the addition of the separated bike lane was absolutely amazing. I feel so much safer, but agree the narrow bike lane is pretty busy now. I have had to pull out of the bike lane to overtake ppl/scooters from time to time, but it's a huge improvement. Agreed the taxi pull out area feels super dangerous if someone is not looking and pulls out when you are riding by. Though still happy it is separated. If we aim for 100% perfection nothing will get built. Love how this new separated lane does offer a connection to the downtown and the larger cycle path in Calgary. Great VIDEO!!!!
You videos have been suggested more and more to me over the past few weeks. First you collab with not just bikes (on the hardware store commute in Amsterdam and your city (sorry, forgot the name for a sec), which I didn’t really like (being sensitive to fast moving video, your segment was to sped up for me). But I decided to give give your channel a proper look, and I really like it! Watching this from a Dutch perspective and I cringe so much at the so called bike infrastructure in Canada (if it can be called that). Painted bike lanes on street with heavy traffic, etc. I’m glad that things are changing and your channel helps to show people that, with the right infrastructure in place, cycling isn’t just for races or going in circles in a park. That it can be a very good, save and health alternative to commuting by car!
Jane is wonderful! She is right on all counts. A great bike lane is the same width as a car lane. A wider bike lane will accommodate more bike traffic. The taxi stand has a weave zone which is one of the most dangerous kinds of infrastructure there is. It can be a pain for passengers to cross the bike lane so they can get into a car but it's a lot safer.
I kinda agree with Jane, I've tried mastering the london based Cycle SuperHighway infra they put in place (similar to what you show in this video) and it is SO busy that trying to actually turn right across the cycle lane would be like tagging the back wheel of someone in a peleton, you're going to take out a bunch of people. Cars may be deadly, but there's only really 1 to worry about for the turn you need to make, the one just behind you and once you take the lane, they're most likely going to stop and have to wait until you complete your right turn. Cyclists in London on the CS routes will attempt to steer around you missing you by inches. Would be interested in seeing your views on the current (and proposed) changes happening in the UK. Namely reiterating and changing wording of the Highway Code (guidance that translates our laws into understandable rules of the road) to better emphasise the priority of all vulnerable road users on roads. E.G. - Traffic turning into a junction or from a junction should give way to pedestrian traffic continuing along the road. - Cyclists must be given a minimum of 1.5m distance when overtaking. - Cyclists are recommended to "take the lane" when they feel it is appropriate to do so to dissuade dangerous overtakes. And new traffic proposals lowering urban speed limits to 20mph nationally (at least in Wales) but is being trialed in several major cities here. Me personally, I think i'm kinda excited by it. Imagine every single urban road in a city being dropped to 20mph limits, I can all of a sudden now keep up with traffic with ease, I don't need dedicated infrastructure to stay safe as I could if pushed on the flat go faster than that. I was dead against it, thinking it was a half way house and didn't go far enough. I'm pro pedestrianisation of urban centres, but 20mph roads don't exclude those who need to use a vehicle from using one, whilst making roads much much more friendlier to ride on. :)
This! By eliminating the speed differential between cars and bikes, the need for separate infrastructure almost completely vanishes. There is only one catch: this speed limit actually needs to be enforced!
I live in Syracuse NY. We have a strange collection of bike lanes. On one hand we have excellent bike lanes but they don't actually go anywhere anyone would want to be. Next we have bike lanes that are useful but they are curb lanes and the city actually sweeps all the trash into the bike lanes making them full of glass. Then anywhere that people actually want to be don't have any bike lanes. So we have good lanes to nowhere, bad lanes to some places, and no lanes to everywhere else. Moreover to get from the good bike lanes to anywhere, you have to travel down 40mph roads that have no curb, or curbs practically made of broken glass and rusty nails. But the worst part is the cops in central NY get alot of funding and they dedicated themselves to keeping the roads clear of cyclists who are left with no option other than use the car only lanes. In the past month I've been stopped half a dozen times for not riding on the glass filled curb. I've even been ordered to ride on the sidewalk, which is actually treated the same as if you were driving a car on the sidewalk by the local courts. I have been told by cops that I'm an idiot who deserves to die for holding up traffic. I've had to explain to 2 different judges how bike tires can't ride on nails and glass. One of those judges told me I should be a good citizen and clean up the curbs for free if I want to ride a bike. The other told me I'm endangering kids in cars by causing parents to move into opposing traffic to pass me. My lawyer told me that riding a bicycle isn't technically illegal but riding a bike on the road is a crime even if there are no other options. Last but not least. The local government is trying to remove all curb lanes and make everything in the city sharies as you call them. But once again they don't go anywhere and they just want to use them to make convicting people for riding in car lanes easier in court. It honestly feels like the government actively opposes bikes and wants to put all cyclist in prison, while trying to portray the exact opposite. This is mainly because even though Syracuse is a college town. Only relatively wealthy kids can afford to go to SU and they can all buy cars with their parent's money. So the local government wants to look friendly to college students. But in reality their best way to do that is to screw over cyclists as hard as possible. I have to go back to court tomorrow morning because I've been charged with attempted vehicular assault by riding my bike through a festival crowd. The judge isn't an idiot so the charges will be dropped. But the cop said a bike is a vehicle and riding through a crowd where the roads have been blocked off could actually kill people, and is the same as if someone drove a car through the crowd. He said if he sees me do it again he'll charge me with committing an act of terrorism. O and I'm a white guy. How do you think they treat black cyclists?
As a European... Yes. And? Oh I see it’s way too narrow and there isn’t enough space between cars and people biking. But honestly: I hope you keep up, it isn’t like there wasn’t enough space (there’s way too much!) and when I rode a bike living in the us I was viewed as kind of an alien and I suddenly realised how urban planning affected the way I‘m getting to places this heavily. Before I thought bike paths on almost every mayor road and a separated bike network through side streets with modal filters and parks was the norm and that it’s absolutely nothing special to go in a city by bike for groceries or commuting.
Hey Tom. I recently bought an ebike for commuting and many of your videos have been helpful to me (my poncho arrives tomorrow!). As you mentioned it in this video, I thought I’d let you know your videos have certainly played a key role in getting me onto a bike - thank you!
I always see it as if people feel safe they'll use it and it people see it being used and it's popularity grows then theres often incentive to make them better, great video!
There were a lot of very interesting issues about cycle lanes in that film. I think it is true that cyclists are often so grateful for any consideration by town planners that they don’t like to criticise anything that is done for them. Certainly that is the case in North America and in the UK where I live. It was very good to include Jane’s contribution because I think there is probably a lot of truth in what she has to say. It looks to me like the lane is rather narrow. There really is little excuse for that when we look at the vast expanse of road available to car drivers. However it is progress and yes, as progress it is to be welcomed. I live in Brighton & Hove city which is the greenest city in the UK. The Green party is very powerful here. We have seen over the last couple of years cycle lanes that are actually rather good. On some four lane streets the council took some of the entire outside lanes and turned them into cycle lanes. This brought absolute fury from the car lobbyists. It was quite funny actually. Their sense of entitlement is something to behold! Unfortunately the council had to retreat a bit removing these really good cycle lanes in some places. However most of what they did remains. I want to see more, much more!
This pickup truck 0:20 be like "there is not enough VROOM on the street" Whenever I see motorists being intentionally loud I imagine there must be some school kids behind the wheel competing on who is able to fart louder.
The driver of that truck is the kind of person who would taste diesel before putting it in his truck to make sure it was not contaminated with "libtards" while he was high on his pills to enlarge his micro peen.
It's so true. When a bike lane is built I'm so happy about it that I overlook any flaws it might have but over time they should be addressed. It shouldn't be set and forget. The street I live on was a major walking route during the 2010 Olympics and they added excellent, and wide, bike lanes. But they only go 4 blocks before you hit water on one end and they dump cyclists out into what is now a pedestrian mall. Also they chose to protect it with low angled curbs that a bike or car can drive up easily so at every intersection cars pull up into the bike lane to use it as a right turn lane. So we take the good with the bad. Thankful to have something, wish it was better.
So funnily enough, your video reminded me i should comment you got me to buy Vincita bike panniers as my first foray into the whole thing as i am using an old mountain bike with no frame eyelets for the traditional bike racks. Its been a joy.
I was *nearly* hit by an SUV who suddenly turned right across my path while riding down this bike lane a few days ago. High speed, no indicator, and I was merely a few centimetres away from being ran over even after I slammed on my brakes. I’m a new cyclist and I’m discouraged. I constantly feel like every car is just going to whip across the path again when I cycle down this one.
Great video! Any improvement is a step in the right direction and I think many of us here in North America are going through the same evolution in infrastructure design and perception of biking as the Netherlands did. I am currently in design with our towns first separated bike lanes, and I can only imagine what things will be like here in 10-15 years!
You should talk about the wide curbside cycle-paths and protected intersections that the Netherlands has. Building those will really make cycling for everyone.
I used to live in Tucson, AZ and now live in Phoenix. Tucson probably had the best bicycle network I've seen so far in the State at least with a few multi-use bike path that mostly have grade separated interchanges. And dedicated bicycle boulevards next to major thoroughfares so you don't have to spend too much time on those suicide lanes in the stroads. In Phoenix they have bike paths at the canals which is great but there's no marked crosswalks on most intersections at stroads. Riding on the sidewalk here is legal which I take advantage of because I don't want to commit suicide riding a bike. Not Just Bikes channel brought me here. You have a great channel.
I use that lane frequently on my rides home from the reservoir loop, and I love what it is now versus a couple of years ago, but I agree that it is too narrow, and that taxi pull-in bit is disconcerting. I have been writing to the city about the way the 5th street lane stops dead and very awkwardly at the Ship...I hope that some of this recently announced federal money, along with some new blood on council in a few months will fix it. You should come see the cool new lane along 24 ave NW, west of 14st...interested in your thoughts on the design.
These videos have been great! I have just bought a new bike after a year of commuting on a 2nd hand one and your tips and advice have helped me consider what I really want from a commuter bike. I think a really useful future video could be what to consider when buying a 2nd hand bike for non-cyclists and the pros and cons of it as it is the most accessible and viable entry option to cycle commuting for many people. Thanks again for the awesome content!
Recently discovered your channel and, I must say, I am completely hooked. Impressive content and production for a channel with this many subscribers. Incredibly underrated. Think I'll stick around!!
I have to agree on the taxi stand and the width. If they wanted a taxi stand they should've made a floating island like you would for a bus stop. The single lanes should be wider and make it bidirectional to give even more space for overtaking. That it is bussier now is just the concequence of it being so much better than it was. Good infra attracts more people (as it should). That's also what helps making it safer and improving more though, it's a desired effect.
Fellow Calgarian here! I am just happy that there are bike lanes to begin with. I don’t have a commute per se, but just being able to spend a nice weekend on my bike downtown, or maybe drive in from my home in Chestermere and park outside downtown if I need to and then just use my scooter the rest of the way in bike lanes instead of having to contend with parking is a-OK in my book!
That's so cool, I'm not much good at advocating for things but I did recently fill out a survey about what residents want from my local shire and I made sure to let them know that as somone with kids and being environmentaly concous I'd love to feel safer biking with seperated bike lanes
My city calls this a "buffered" bike lane. There are also "painted" which is exactly what it sounds like, "protected" which is a proper protected bike lane (unfortunately rare in my city), "neighbourhood greenways" which are basically quiet streets with sharrows, and then the city has coordinated with local cycling organizations to identify a number of "low stress routes" which are quiet streets with little traffic where it's a little safer to cycle in mixed traffic. There is also a fairly extensive network of multi-use pathways around the city. Moreso in the south than the north though. And many of the multi-use paths actually take you to useful locations and aren't just for leisure (though we have plenty of leisure trails too). There's still a ton of work left to do to improve cycling in my city, but we're doing a lot better than we were even 5 years ago.
Most impressed that the bike lane is cleared when it snows. In Cambridge, UK this never happens (to be honest, snow doesn't fall very often here) and the only safe way to cycle is to forsake the cycle lane and go onto the road.
@@Shifter_Cycling The only reason I started appreciating our cycling infrastructure was because of video's like yours, very easy to take things for granted that are "just there", literally every road with high volume or fast traffic has a separated bike lane, and trough streets with low volume / slow traffic has a non-separated bike lane.
Nice bike ;). It's partially thanks to videos like yours that I got a Priority Continuum Onyx myself. I've had it a couple weeks and just took it on my first 100k ride on Saturday.
Great to see improvements. Stockholm has recently revamped one of it's most dangerous intersection, before almost once a week I would see a cyclist get hit by another cyclist or car or have to do daring dodging. Now it is very safe, cars, cycles and pedestrians have their own lanes and are all seperated.
It's a start. I am truly hoping that this country gets their sh*t together and creates LOTS of cycling infrastructure. People want to ride their bikes and feel safe! It is a draw to a city to provide cycling infrastructure!! Thanks for the vid, you're doing great work for us all!
Hi i got here from NJB. Thats not quite a Dutch bike path but its a start. If you want to see bike paths called Redways check out Milton Keynes in the UK. You can literally get to anywhere in the city from your doorstep on safe, wide tree lined paths. MK has so many Redways its unbelievable.
My sister is very nervous on her electric bike, but they've recently moved to Hastings in south east England, so she can cycle all along the sea front, which has painted cycle and pedestrian sections. I guess it was relatively easy to do as the promenade is 30/40 feet wide in places. But it all peters out once you get to the Old Town, and at Bexhill the other end, which is the next town along the coast. So 4.3 miles. Obviously is very difficult to add cycle lanes in older English towns with narrow streets. Heh, I've been to Copenhagen in Sweden, where it's all so different!
Yay for new bike lanes! Question - is there a parallel bike lane on the other side of the street for going in the opposite direction? My city's problem (Wilmington, NC) is that when they put in bike lanes, they're often only in one direction. I can go to my local grocery store in a (very crappy) painted bike lane, but going home I have to mix with traffic on the way back, on the same street. Often I'll see folks using the bike lane in the wrong direction, which is super dangerous because it's only wide enough for one bike going one way. It is soooooo frustrating!!
Ugh, this sounds awful. Yes, this street has lanes on both sides, so you can go both directions. We also have streets with bi-directional separated bike lanes, meaning one lane with two directions. It’s not as good as having them on both sides of the street, but at least you can go both ways.
I live in a very bike friendly city and can understand where the "to narrow" argument comes from... Since education is the mother of all solutions, i would suggest that driver and local officials sensibilisation coupled with legal incentives would do much more than any protected bike lane could... ☮️
Nah, they are just not used to narrow streets so the bus drivers are't able to drive through a hole just 2cm bigger than their bus ;) Of course that was a joke. The reson for that is that they don't know cm over there. They probably just didn't want to get booed at for using "but it is more expensive". (Strangely enough I have never heard even once an "it's too expensive" guy saying "so get rid of the car lane and only build the bike lane" even though the car lane is the more expensive one by far.)
I can't complain about a separated bike lane, because where I live it's nonexistent. Not even painted bike lanes, we do have share the road signs and a law that vehicles give bikes at least 3' clearance when passing. That works great on a narrow road where the speed limit is 30-40 MPH and cars go between 50-70 MPH.
Heh, ironic, we walked around that neighbourhood in 2019 when we visited. It's always a question of what to celebrate. I certainly have had disagreements with folks at our city about celebrating infra I thought was....inadequate or even problematic. It does depend on the context. Giving a nuanced view of what is good, and what could be better can help move things along. I think I probably err on the side of higher standards these days, but any reasonably protected infrastructure I am willing to recognize as an improvement just because it's been such a long battle to get protected infra onto the radar. Happy trails.
Hey, coming to you from Chicago. I am a competitive racer, was a messenger and still am a everyday commuter on bike. I also ran/managed shops and was part of the activism to make Chicago more bike capable(friendly). Over thirty years we have progressed to a bare minimum. Where I live up in the northwest part we have some of the oldest and best bike lanes, albeit no curb protection but wide. The more condensed areas are getting routes but they lack the space of the many riders. People want to ride but unless you are a true Cyclist it is, to this day a daunting challenge. Shame. Coupled with the still present, insidious reaction of a motorist being bothered by your existence. For me it is no bother, I ride faster than them. But, people have gotten better. A pandemic brought out the inner child and now bikes fly off the floor of shops. I digress. Shifter, you do hit many nails and allow me this example. My commute to work is only 1.1 miles. Yeah. But I also have a beautiful forest preserve cutting through, which I grew up on and still use for MTB training. Anyway, my company is located in a suburb just north of Chicago. That city just remade a stretch that takes me directly to work. The problem is the lane is way too narrow, the buffer is wider than need be, reducing the lane. The lane is poorly marked and runs into the sidewalk at intersections. Why can't we ever listen to this community or heed what bike countries have done? That is rhetorical. Nice video.
Hey Tom! Have you thought about doing a video comparing different ways to keep your bike safe/different types of bike locks? I live in Austin TX and like a lot of other cities, bike theft can be a major issue/deterrent for folks to get on bikes and go places.
Come ride the 2nd ave seperated death trap in NYC. because they let cars park between the seperated bike lane and the normal lanes, turning vehicles almost never look before turning. almost every time Im on it I almost get hit.
In my city, which considers itself "bike friendly", a "bike lane" is just a painted line on a city street that really means little to drivers who have no problem encroaching upon it if it suits them. But at least a painted bike lane helps to keep traffic a little and safer distance from you.
@@chrisblue4652 if there is a bicycle lane/path, a cyclist should use that lane/path and not switch from one to the other in rappid succession as this can create dangerous situations aswell.
@@chrisblue4652 you say you want painted lines to create a 2 feet buffer zone between the car lane and the seperated bicycle path, but paint does not stop people parking their car on the bicycle path like you just mentioned, you need a physical barrier between a car lane and the seperated bicycle path to prevent this, and this can be as minimal as having a kerb between the 2 or have the seperated bicycle path raised a bit, though on roads where cars go above 25mph it is probably more advisable to have barrier wall between the two. If you got a decently sized bicycle lane, you should be able to pass slower moving traffic, potential debris or large potholes while still staying in the bicycle lane, also large potholes should be less of a problem on seperated bicycle paths if cars stay off it. the left turn problem is most likely the fault of the North American intersections standard itself, the next vid should show you how to make a "safer" intersection by using the same space as the intersection that it can replace. th-cam.com/video/FlApbxLz6pA/w-d-xo.html ( less than 3 minutes long ) the vid is from 2011, it is possible that the "standard American Intersaction" is different now, but it should still give a view on how you could make an intersection safer for cyclist and people ingeneral.
@@chrisblue4652 I live in the Netherlands and have been cycling to school or work on and off for about 20 years, I already live in that reality you say will never happen in America. So, American, it is on you and other American citizens that want better/safer bicycle infrastructure to make it the reality for the places you live/work in. Or don't and keep being seen as the third-rank road you are, as that is what most people in North America think of cyclists anyways, a nuisance, a pest, a hindrance to their car is king mentality. But to answer your questoins: Yes, wider more noticeable striped paint on the ground to create a bigger buffer zone between the cyclist and car is an improvement over a 1 single stripe, though the magic of paint does not stop people not getting on the bicycle path with their cars knowingly or unknowingly, other downside with more/wider paint on the road is, when wet, the painted parts can be slippery. You are also correct on that you dont like the small curbs with that narrow bike lane, but the problem is not the curb, it is the narrow width of said bike lane. You argue that with the small curbs, cars can still get into the bicycle lane, and yes it is possible, the thing is if the driver accidentally goes into a seperated bicycle path with a curb, the driver would notice hitting or going over a curb and should react by slowing down the vehicle, while with your prefered painted lines on the ground the driver will not and might never know he/she was in the wrong place to begin with. And again, it is not the curb that limits your maneuverability, it is the limited width of the bicycle lane you have a problem with. You can also bash your head falling out of your bed, going on and off the stairs, getting in/out the bath/shower, sooo, where are you trying to go with this? Want to foampad everything? how about everyone wears a bouncy castle suit?
@@chrisblue4652 yea... sometimes it can really suprise you how bullheaded some of the car centric people can be, not seeing the bigger picture of getting more people commuting via an alternative to the car by investing in good bicycle infrastructure and public transport, that it will help them, the drivers who has no other option than a car, to reach their destination faster aswell. The bicycle infra we have here today in the Netherlands was not build in 1 day, it is a system of adding, updating, building, testing that has been done for 4-5 decades, with that saying getting all 330 mil heads in the same direction will never happen since the topic is just as divided as politic itself, though there are cities in America with bicycle unions/groups with growing number of members to try and get their city to implement bicycle infra. start small and the rest will follow idea. Over the years, street designers from around the US and probably also Transportation Department Engineers have come to the Netherlands and Copenhagen (Denmark) to see the different sollutions we have here ( I think this was one of such events th-cam.com/video/ur7Jaitm_sk/w-d-xo.html but a short section of it), it is probably a good idea for people that are going to design bicycle infrastructure that they themselves use a bicycle, that way they can first hand experience the possible dangers a cyclist can/will encounter on their journey and hopefully reduce the risk. Most of the reactions you see from people that encounter newly build bad infrastructure is that they question if the people designing the road ever been on a bicycle themselves. Space is always a struggle and whatever sollution is being picked, there will be people against it, though i would not go for the demolish buildings option, if space is limited but there is a need for wider bicycle path and/or footpath you can always shrink the width of the car lanes (in most cases they got loads of wiggle room) or remove a car lane completely, or make it a 1 way car street but a bi-directional bicycle road. (whatever the the solution becomes, if there will be a bicycle path implemented do always make it a bi-directional one) being one of the metric users what is ' again? " was inches right? What you are saying is when the curb between the carlane and the bicyclepath is too small that it can create dangerous situations with big hunks of metal and plastic getting of the ground and/or that the car in question possibly get trapped, as that is what the data you got tells you. Those are a couple of cons indeed, though at least the driver have noticed they are in the wrong place which usually does not happen when you only have some paint on the ground. At the start you asked if a double white line with some striped pattern lines between them will be better than a single line, for this 100% yes, as more drivers are less likely to accidentally swerve within a bicycle lane when the "buffer space" between both increases, the problem is that it occasionally still will happen and the distracted driver usually does not notice till it is too late (playing with their phone or infotainment), if a curb is a no-go, the same for flower pots and walls, how about making the painted lines thicker? not persee wider but higher, so when a car wheels goes over them it should warn the driver for being in the wrong area? We got a similar solutions for drivers that are about to go off the asphalt edge by having grooves in the asphalt, the wheels going over these grooves results in vibrations going through the car and thus alerting the driver.
My city's new plan is a good start, but there are sharrows where I think there should be a painted lane at least, and the painted bike lanes should be separated with a kerb like these ones. There are good seperate trails, though. It's a decent start!
I am from the Netherlands and as many people knows, we have a lot of bikelanes where people feel save on it. But even here, just building a bikelane for safety cannot be enough. For each situation or traffic behaviour the bikelanes constantly needs to evolved for better safety. So what the woman says is not unreasonable, those are issues to pick on. To cityhall needs to research how to make the bikeline on those specific places better. It happends in the Netherlands as a second habit. 🙃
@@pbilk the citizen are using those bikelanes more often than the city planner. So it is good for future citiplans to receive feedback from the locals about the bikelane. Maybe the new bikelane created a new situation that makes drivers and cyclist confused at a certain point but the cityplanner could not predict it would happen. Those confusion could lead to unsafety for both parties.
Interesting perspective. I've been commuting by bike for well over 20 years. I don't like the protected lanes. As your guest said, they are too narrow, and I don't like that I can't get out of the bike lane into the auto lane if there is debris in the bike lane. I much prefer an unprotected lane (or ideally a dedicated bike path, but I'm not expecting those everywhere). I've also heard complaints from fellow cyclists that when they are driving they don't like the protected lanes for similar reasons. The curbs make the car lane feel too narrow as well. I'm lucky though. I live between Denver and Boulder, Colorado and commuting here is pretty damn good. It's not perfect, but it's getting there.
At least you have some protected lanes. Down in Iowa (Cedar Rapids) we have more lanes on the edge of door zones then anything else. The bone the city gave us, and it’s a big bone is the bike path that is being built that will eventually go out to our neighbor city of Marion. Which I’m grateful for and hopefully encourages more riding.
Do you mean the bike lanes that are painted just to the left of parked cars? Clearly that was designed by somebody who is not a bike rider. We have some of those here in La Crosse on a fairly busy county trunk highway which supposedly forces bicyclists to ride in a narrow lane right next to traffic rather than as far from traffic as possible which most do, bike lane or not.
Good that jane came around. So I dont't must complain about this half finished lane. If you have a lot bikers with diffrend speeds in your area, then you will see why you must have cicle-lanes wider then 2 Meters.
lucky enough to say that all the places I’ve been to in my home state; almost everywhere; there are bike lanes on at the shoulders of the road; but they are not perfect as of yet. there is no devider so accidents are unnavodable.
To have something is better then nothing. The current bike infrastucture in the Netherlands isn't also build overnight. Some streets in Amsterdam had 3 reconstuctions from the 1960's to get good separate bikelanes.
I’m glad you got your bike lane. I ride bikes and walk and drive a car. I think she is right. It’s too narrow so faster riders can’t get past slower riders. My biggest complaint is riders who don’t use them when available. They use the sidewalk or clog up the road and annoy car drivers. Same with pedestrians. Use the path and don’t walk in the bike lanes or the road.
As for improper bike lanes, cities can do it right on the cheap. What's common is curb-parallel parking-bike lane. What they should do is curb-bike lane-parallel parking. The parked cars can be a nice buffer, and after enough tickets,the drivers will eventually learn to not park next to the curb.
probably a better/safer way is: Footpath / bicycle path / barrier / parked cars (if needed) / road. and mirror it for the other side. do note that with barrier i meant some kind of space between the bicycle path and the parked cars or road to prevent dooring events
Omg people do that here all the time. The city I live in recently tore up about 3km stretch, it used to be 4 lanes for cars. 2 each direction. They made it 1 lane each direction for cars, 1 lane each direction for bike and 1 centre lane to turn. Cars drive right in the marked bike lanes and use them for right hand turns. Doesnt help the bike lane suddenly ends at an intersection while the road continues. Poor planning
@@Shifter_Cycling I saw this in a suburb of Chicago and to me it looked more safe on the left side of parked car. You are more visible and the driver does not have to look over cars to see the bikes. I love cycling and luckily the town I live in has good bike routes and you can avoid traffic or tight streets..
I don’t know about traffic rules in North America, but if a pedestrian is walking along the road where a car wants to turn right. Who has priority? In my country the pedestrian going straight along the road, has priority over the car turning. So the car needs to give priority to the pedestrian walking alongside him on the pavement and is crossing the side street, where he wants to turn into. You have to give priority to through traffic, being a pedestrian, a bicyclist or a motor vehicle. The pavement is part of the road, so is the separate bicycle road or painted lane. So turning into a side street, the car has to stop and look if the road is free or that he has to give priority to someone else. It is just common traffic behavior in my country.
An associate of mine (whose wife is Dutch and who cycles there regularly) recently commented that one of the reasons cycling in the Netherlands works so well is because pretty much all the motorists are also bicyclists. That is most certainly not the case in the vast majority of the U.S. I am on a city's Complete Streets Advisory Council and you'd think the world was going to end when new project plans that include cycling infrastructure and improved pedestrian infrastructure are put out for public comment... The transportation cyclists we have typically do not own cars as they work low wage jobs and they would never attend a public meeting to offer input about what would work for them. Even advocates come in with biases-bi-directional multi-use paths next to the roads are popular with many of them but the transitions to the rest of the transportation infrastructure are flawed. Typically the projects end with no viable connection. Getting consultants and engineers to understand the local issues and the cyclist perspective is also a challenge. This as they all have the same basic schooling and were taught to use the same "official" design guidelines. Constructively challenging that paradigm it not easy. Advocates need to be able to articulate what the issues are in terms that the consultants and engineers understand while at the same time offering them viable alternatives. It can be done... For example, locally a DOT project was presented that, to me a veteran non-competitive cyclist (decades of riding for transportation, recreation, mountain biking and long distance multi-month bicycle touring), was a meat grinder for cyclists and pedestrians. I articulated why it was a meat grinder and offered alternatives. Some five years later and another $6 million + that project is going to construction. It incorporates many of the design elements I offered up while also eliminating almost all the design elements that would kill cyclists and pedestrians. Do I think it's perfect now... No. However, it is light years ahead of where it was when the original design was presented.
How is this narrow bike lane supposed to get cleaned and/or defrosted if it is separated from the main road? No way those big cleaning machines will fit in there. Also i see no way to overtake slow bike commuters here either without having an accident thanks to those high lane borders . Am I missing something here?
This bike lane looks like the ones that were built in the late 90's/early 2000's in Paris. They are currently being phased out and replaced with wider, better separated (hard separation on the car side but a gentle slope on the bike side), better drainage (no gutter effect), thought out cycling continuity, and often even larger bidirectional lanes. Still they were clearly a step up at the time even if, as cycling got more popular, more experienced and faster cyclists stopped using them because of the impossibility to pass.
I prefer sharrows over bike lanes, especially poorly done bike lanes. Here in Tacoma, I've suggested eliminating bike lanes on the long downhill sections of roads into downtown and doubling the width on the uphill segment to give riders more room where it is needed.
Your optimism is not misplaced at all. Baby steps. Cities that know how to do bike-as-transportation and have fully implemented their system (i.e. no place in North America) obviously are far ahead of this bike lane. But, they didn't get there overnight. They had their missteps and halfway solutions too; they're just farther along in the process. That your city accomplished as much as they did is huge, even if they have a long way to go. The mere fact that the path is getting too crowded is in and of itself a major step. It brings the long-understood fact about building bike infrastructure leading to at-capacity use of that infrastructure home to the local environment; having city officials know it academically isn't nearly as useful as having them see it in front of their eyes. Baby steps.
they should learn from Denmark and other Nordic countries. I live in Norway. it's pretty good here, a lot of paths for both cyclists and pedestrians. but where I live there are some higher speed main roads where there are no paths, but I know they are planned, and will eventually come to connect the cities. I think that's the only thing missing where I live. In Denmark the infrastructure was developed early on so cities have wide spaces and wide path for riding bikes everywhere.
Pretty much agree. 2nd St is an improvement, but still not perfect. If you have an appetite for danger, you should do a video about 14th / 15th AVE. Those painted bike lanes are pretty terrible. Cars pretty much drive with one wheel in the bike lane at all times.
did you ever go to Europe to bike? Would love to make you envious with our Dutch bike structure..... I love the bike highways or fastroutes between cities.
Minneapolis MN has many bike paths, but a lot are horrible. Around popular areas they are shared with pedestrians (including dog walkers on one side with the leashed dog on the other) and have 10 mph speed limit. Others also feature a down and then up a curb height handicap ramp at every cross street. It gets old in a hurry. So in those areas bikes take to the streets. Motorists are annoyed and show displeasure at that; they think we ought be on the path and don't think about our dilemma. When you have time to compare it for them later, to driving where every road has speed bumps, they get it. And realize I am describing the safe bike lanes. I haven't even mentioned the unsafe ones.
Good points 🙂 Covid has made my city "make space for people" (Edinburgh, Scotland) which entails hard edging the bus lane so people can walk past each other, keeping the 2 meter distance on narrow side walks, pushing us cyclists into the single lane of traffic, cars, buses and trucks! Other parts of the city have good segregated bike lanes and old railway routes paved for walking and cycling, (not segregated). I've never understood why the planners think it's ok to have cyclists and pedestrians using the same path! It's the usual problem of not joining the dots!
I think there are some low-traffic situations where shared pedestrian-cyclist routes can work. But if they are good, they’ll soon attract so many people that they’ll be rendered useless. Separation is best, imho
I have a 90 minute commute to work on a shared use path. The pathway follows a decommissioned railroad. Access to this shared use trial is provide by trailheads peppering the roads and neighbourhoods in close proximity to the trail, connecting many areas of the city and stretching to outlying communities. After a year of commuting by bike I can tell you that I prefer to be in a lane, on the road with vehicles. The innumerable 'Karens & Chads' I encounter on the shared trail are beyond reproach. On the trail, I've been accused of the following; 1) Too quiet an approach. I get a louder electric horn. 2) Too loud-new horn is not acceptable, "a bike shouldn't sound like that"! (Same individual who complained I was too quiet earlier). 3) Too speedy (my e-bike governs at 33kph/Trail speed limit=33kph). There are many conventional cyclist I come across that easily exceed this limit. Also, they tend to ride in packs. 4) Too disruptive - Apparently I cycled in on some hippie's individual healing ritual in the forest, on public land (a regional park), and was informed that cycling was prohibited, on the cycle path. But here's what I encounter; 1) Families & neighbours having countless 'reunions' across the breadth of the shared path, ignorant to the world at large; I encounter this 10-30 times per trip. 2) Individuals & groups that insist on congesting trailheads by loitering at them. I assume these are the very people that stop abruptly at the top of escalators. 3) Off-leash dogs on a shared trail are a hazard; I'm already dealing with deaf 90-yearolds and spooked horses, I don't want your over-excited, over-protective canine to get hurt. 4) People who don't understand 'On your left' - this is far too common. I've had to dodge countless simpletons who can't differentiate left vs. right. Sad really. Also some of these people drive! I have been physically threatened by dog owners on 4 separate occasions; dogs, twice. I always signal. I always alert by bell and voice. I always slow down whilst passing pets and families. I always wave and say thank you as I pass. I give a thumb's up to little kids on their first bikes. I wish 'Good morning' to my 'regulars'. On the road, the worst I get is a motorist jockeying for position and the occasional middle finger. Oh, I was once told to "Get off the road" once.
Agree, I live in Edinburgh too and started cycling in February. I have a tricycle and find that some of the limited cycle lanes are barely wide enough to accommodate and there is largely no accommodation made for places where cars are routinely parked on the cycle path and thus forcing cyclists into the main road and busy traffic lanes. The old railway line is a good cycle path away from traffic. It does get a lot of use from dog walkers, pedestrians in general and cyclists and it does have an unspoken code of how it is used but you do have to give a lot more notice that you are passing so that the dogs can be brought into the side safely. Edinburgh has a long way to go before it is safe to properly cycle through the city. My biggest bugbears are the potholes and narrowness of the lanes.
Yes, that was my first impression... that thing is way to narrow, you cannot overtake. A bikeline invites more bikes so it should offer the possibility to overtake . so yes from me too : " Baby steps....keep going.....!! Greetings from The Netherlands......."
I love separated bike lanes. Unfortunately I live and bike commute in Brooklyn NY and bike lanes here are horrible if existent. There's not enough. It's discouraging for new cyclists to get on the road.
My wife doesn't want me to commute to work via a bicycle - she says it isn't safe to cycle on streets in Maryland - how did she come to this conclusion?
Same here. Where I live all we have is the occasional sign with a silhouette of a bike saying "SHARE THE ROAD". A few days ago I saw a cement mixer coming up behind me in my mirror saw that he was neither slowing down nor hinting that he was going to go around me. I ended up veering off the road so as to not end up a statistic. Most people around here seem willing to share the road but the ones that aren't, yikes.
I agree with the criticisms in some of the comments, makes one wonder if the designers have ever ridden a bicycle or even asked cyclists what they want.
I feel many protected bike lanes are too narrow to pass other cyclists. I'm not super speedy, but I'm faster than most people I come across on my commute. I often find myself waiting for an intersection to pass them safely without being a dick
In some cities, the bike lanes have gotten so popular they are going back and widening them. This would be a good problem to have.
Thank you for having manners.
Yes, this, plus the idea from my point of view, that there should be 2 way bike lanes on both sides of many main roads. Too many times the necessity to be on the opposite side means having to do a convoluted route that often is about a quarter of a mile or more plus extra lights to wait through. People are not wanting to ride bikes if it is harder for them to do it. A personal example involves my kid, who was raised on a bike, and at 14 doesn't want to ride their bike because; 1. The hills are everywhere, and the bike lane (non separated) roads seem to be on the steeper part of the hill, 2. fear because the bike lane is not separate and cars are always driving into them, and as a part of this, having witnessed people getting slammed with cars. 2 were substantially injured, and one was killed (to be fair the last one was a true accident of events, but, if the bike lane was separated it would have been avoided) 3. the bike lanes that are multiuse, are scary because of pedestrians being unaware, some bikers who seem oblivious to the idea of simple manners while biking, and folks' mobility devices which are driven by folks at top speed and seem to believe they have right of way at all times.
My summation is that if one kid, who has been in a bike trailer, or on a bike since shortly after birth, is feeling pushed away, how about all of those people who haven't any familiarity with a bike, but could be persuaded to, if they could feel secure?
@Bronson Ramoutar , and then there is the other bike problem. The so called "motor assisted type", whose rider usually have less knowledge than bicyclist who "share" bike lanes.
@@Shifter_Cycling I live in Winnipeg, I don't see that happening for a good while :p.
You are actually both right: you celebrate success in city-planning, Jane exposes the lack of design experience of the street designers. When the lane's usage grows, you will keep the planners attention. The street designer will do a much better job next time: there are so many examples how it can be done better. It simply takes time to evolve.
next time? you mean in 2085
this is pure incompetence nothing more to it, proper bikelanes have been done before its not rocket science
@@jdv943 Depends on the city and country, but usually main streets are redeveloped every 20 years or so, due to changes in society.
@@markovermeer1394 yes obesity and the increased size requirements for sidewalks is something new
There are so many places doing great bike infrastructure. The evolution is already available. This is a lack of priority given to bike routes or a lack of willingness to research case studies. I do think part of what you say makes sense "When the lane's usage grows, you will keep the planners attention." However, if they keep building shitty infrastructure the usage volume won't grow fast enough to get momentum. North America will continue to argue that "no one uses those damn bike lanes. why even build them". That is my worry.
sidewalks did use to be big in the civil war and great depression times, your point @@jdv943 ?
As a dutchie, first thinking it was the separation itself: the unforgiving concrete 90 degrees enclosure of the path, the gutter that is never going to be taking in the water from the car-road or the poles standing on top of the barrier (why is that?)
Then hearing Jane with her complaints.. yeah, if you want to make a bike-lane: make sure it's wide (this is barely enough for one, and looks like there is none on the other side of the street), separate it everywhere (so it's not gonna be a parking opportunity) and make sure at the crossing cars are warned/aware the designated space is for bikes.
But, it's a first step fellow Tom, Rome isn't built in a day and it takes time for people (and city-planners) to adapt to changing demands: generations of people grown up with the idea the car was the best mode of transport, to see the better alternative is going to take some time.
Tipp for North Americans:Watch "bicycle Dutch" and "Not just Bikes" to see how it is done properly.
@@boldvankaalen3896 Just get a Dutch consultant to draw up plans and stick to those plans. North American traffic engineers and city planners have a terrible habit of taking expensive training and trips to Europe but still trying to reinvent the wheel instead of blatantly copying what has been improved for decades and has been found to work great.
the green poles are there for 2 reasons: Visibility so motorists realise there's a new bike path there and for snow removal, so the plow doesn't eat up the curb when it's buried under snow.
And that's also another reason why Jane is correct, with winter, everything gets narrower. So the path will indeed get pretty tight with snow/ice buildups on the side.
@@Davmm96 but the car lane barrier (the sidewalk line) doesn't have poles on it and snowplows and motorist seem to do fine with those,so what's so special about the bike lane barrier? If the barrier can't handle a snowplow then maybe they should use different barriers.
@@Arjay404 Mostly because those bike lines are uncommon and smaller than a sidewalk which you can't really miss even if drunk. I can easily picture a drunk driver rolling over that lane without those reflective poles. The barrier will certainly hold up to few plow rams but it's easier to just help the driver to avoid them.
Some wider barriers (like on Maisonneuve street, Mtl) don't require poles since they are wider.
I can't wait to complain about separated bike lanes in my city!
I wish that someday you too can complain about separated bike lanes in your city 🤣
@@Shifter_Cycling it's still a lot better than most of the cycling infrastructure in England where if your outside London it's either narrow painted cycle lanes, shared pedestrian cycle paths, paths that are in such awful condition that cycling on the road becomes the safest option
@@benjamindavies1188 Doesn't mean things can't get better. Also what cycling infrastructure are you talking about? Are you talking about the pop-ups?
@@Kyle-mo7bd no the council just get lazy and introduce shared paths, where cyclists have to share with dogs off leads and dogs on retractable Leads.
Bad drivers hate bike lanes because they can no longer zombie-drive.
Commenting on an old video but woohoo! I live in that neighbourhood and was one of the people advocating for "proper" bike lanes to be put in when discussing with older community members. They might not be perfect but I like to think they are a step in the right direction! :D
If only more cities did it. Where I live, there was a road that was narrowed a few years ago in quite a lazy way. Rather than doing anything substantial, they just painted away a lane of traffic. They could've easily put in a separated bike lane with the space they freed up, but they just had a painted bicycle lane, and the leftover space seems to only be used occasionally by construction workers who need to park their cars.
I would really love to have separated bike lanes here where I live now. As a beginner, I get nervous when cars and other vehicles come up behind me. Dedicated bike lanes would really help alleviate that anxiety and encourage people to go out there and ride a bike to work or school or wherever. Plus, the environmental benefits would be awesome for future generations.
I think you just articulated exactly why separated bike lanes are important. Thanks!
As a seasoned bike commuter I also get nervous about cars. Having been in three accidents in five years might have something to do with that. So now I mostly stick to sidewalks.
Maybe try out mirrors.
If you want something low profile check out the Corky Urban
To go to the office I have to cycle 35 km one way. Almost 33 km, including the part I cycle in Amsterdam, is bikelane. It's not completely safe, but in the last 15 years, it is proven to be safe enough. You Americans have a long way to go. Sent your engineers to us, let them see how it's done properly, so they can copy our way of designing bikelanes. You will be thrilled to bike the Dutch way.
Thank you for including Jane’s perspective. And a replay of this video and some note taking is an organized blast of what good advocacy for bike infrastructure should look like. My local twist is a growing burgeoning community whose auto infrastructure is at capacity. Adding bike infrastructure for four season travel will eventually help spread that capacity for workers and commerce.
That is something that car-dependent persons often miss: bike infrastructure is so much more space-efficient, that losing one car lane to an extra-wide bike lane usually does not increase congestion (after a short adjustment period), but rather relieves it - because every person on a bike is not blocking space in a car lane, and you can fit so much more people on a bike lane. In the end, those few people that actually *need* to drive (like delivery traffic, trucks carrying construction materials, or the odd disabled person) actually have a much better experience in bike-friendly environments, just because it takes pressure of the car lanes.
Tom, I had no idea there was a bike lane on 2nd St. I have been using 5th St from 17 Ave to Elbow River pathway when commuting to/from home to office in the summer. Today I used the 2nd St bike lane for the first time. Very safe and pleasant. Thank you for this as well as your ongoing videos. Love them. Keep up the great work.
Well done. Having Jan'es perspective makes it real, and you handled the difference in perspective well.
I see things as you do, having ridden around traffic for many years so any improvement is welcome. But people with a different background see things afresh,
Not really. It’s like comparing a punch in the face to a kick in the testicles. Slightly less better than crap but still crap. America is such a outdated third world country. Can’t even grasp the simple concept of protected intersections as well.
It’s like someone who’s eaten poo their entire life being grateful for finally getting to drink pee instead now.
@@KandiKlover , my generation of cyclists grew up with John Forester's concept of "Vehicular Cycling" in which you ride on the roads with cars. It can work very well - for the small % of people who feel comfortable doing it. HOWEVER ....
To make bicycles an option for most people, we have to have paths/ protected lanes. In many parts of the country, you are correct - the situation is pretty bad.
@@BartAnderson_writer The key to making this work is to slow down cars. Some villages/small towns in Germany have experimented very successfully with the idea of "shared space", but this usually involved adding complexity, speed bumps, planters etc to force motorists to slow down and pay attention.
What I feel would help tremendously if in-town speed limits were reduced to 30km/h (from the 50km/h that is the default in Germany). If these speeds are enforced, then riding amongst cars becomes much less stressful, as the speed differential is close to eliminated and thus the (peceived) need for overtaking/passing the cyclist greatly reduced, leading to fewer close passes.
@@turboseize Lower speed limits would definitely help!
It will take a lot of things changing.
Brilliant. Brilliant! I loved it how, in a relatively short video, you included a comparison between two different types of bike lanes and an oposing opinion to yours, so it's not one-sided. Thank you for the video.
Thanks for watching!
We do have to celebrate new bike infrastructure in our communities! But at the same time, we have to be sure that it is safe, designed for year-round use and wide so that friends and families can ride side by side. These design aspects also mean that your community is planning for the future (cargo bikes, more riders, etc).
Well said. Thanks Dave.
@@Shifter_Cycling Keep up the great videos! The Canadian context is important :)
I look forward to the day when bikes and pedestrians take over the streets, and cars are shunted off to the side with only a few routes.
Hey, I can dream. :-)
Bike lanes so that friends and families can ride side by side is a bad idea, the rest is okay.
@@ivansarajev49 You've clearly never seen proper bike infrastructure. Wide separated cycling paths are the bare minimum needed to make things safe. This is to allow cyclists to safely overtake each other. Giving people the option to cycle next to each other is just an added bonus. As long as you have a bell on your bike, it's is far better than this low quality cycling path. These are the types of cycling paths we here in the Netherlands have alongside old roads in industrial areas where factories and trucks strongly limit how much space there is for cycling paths. Not alongside normal freshly build roads.
With all of the flaws this bike lane might have, it would be welcome in my city. We have zero bike lanes..I have to compete with car, bus and truck traffic daily since it's illegal to ride on the sidewalk.
You're totally correct that it's a nice privilege to have bike lanes like this even if they aren't perfect.
In my city I don't think there's a single bike route that goes from one place to another, they all randomly stop beore they avtually take you anywhere, not to mention they are those painted bike gutters
This makes more sense than a bike lane
as someone who has ridden the 2nd street 'sharrow' road for years the addition of the separated bike lane was absolutely amazing. I feel so much safer, but agree the narrow bike lane is pretty busy now. I have had to pull out of the bike lane to overtake ppl/scooters from time to time, but it's a huge improvement. Agreed the taxi pull out area feels super dangerous if someone is not looking and pulls out when you are riding by. Though still happy it is separated. If we aim for 100% perfection nothing will get built. Love how this new separated lane does offer a connection to the downtown and the larger cycle path in Calgary. Great VIDEO!!!!
You videos have been suggested more and more to me over the past few weeks. First you collab with not just bikes (on the hardware store commute in Amsterdam and your city (sorry, forgot the name for a sec), which I didn’t really like (being sensitive to fast moving video, your segment was to sped up for me). But I decided to give give your channel a proper look, and I really like it! Watching this from a Dutch perspective and I cringe so much at the so called bike infrastructure in Canada (if it can be called that). Painted bike lanes on street with heavy traffic, etc. I’m glad that things are changing and your channel helps to show people that, with the right infrastructure in place, cycling isn’t just for races or going in circles in a park. That it can be a very good, save and health alternative to commuting by car!
Jane is wonderful! She is right on all counts.
A great bike lane is the same width as a car lane.
A wider bike lane will accommodate more bike traffic.
The taxi stand has a weave zone which is one of the most dangerous kinds of infrastructure there is. It can be a pain for passengers to cross the bike lane so they can get into a car but it's a lot safer.
I kinda agree with Jane, I've tried mastering the london based Cycle SuperHighway infra they put in place (similar to what you show in this video) and it is SO busy that trying to actually turn right across the cycle lane would be like tagging the back wheel of someone in a peleton, you're going to take out a bunch of people.
Cars may be deadly, but there's only really 1 to worry about for the turn you need to make, the one just behind you and once you take the lane, they're most likely going to stop and have to wait until you complete your right turn. Cyclists in London on the CS routes will attempt to steer around you missing you by inches.
Would be interested in seeing your views on the current (and proposed) changes happening in the UK.
Namely reiterating and changing wording of the Highway Code (guidance that translates our laws into understandable rules of the road) to better emphasise the priority of all vulnerable road users on roads.
E.G.
- Traffic turning into a junction or from a junction should give way to pedestrian traffic continuing along the road.
- Cyclists must be given a minimum of 1.5m distance when overtaking.
- Cyclists are recommended to "take the lane" when they feel it is appropriate to do so to dissuade dangerous overtakes.
And new traffic proposals lowering urban speed limits to 20mph nationally (at least in Wales) but is being trialed in several major cities here.
Me personally, I think i'm kinda excited by it. Imagine every single urban road in a city being dropped to 20mph limits, I can all of a sudden now keep up with traffic with ease, I don't need dedicated infrastructure to stay safe as I could if pushed on the flat go faster than that. I was dead against it, thinking it was a half way house and didn't go far enough. I'm pro pedestrianisation of urban centres, but 20mph roads don't exclude those who need to use a vehicle from using one, whilst making roads much much more friendlier to ride on. :)
This! By eliminating the speed differential between cars and bikes, the need for separate infrastructure almost completely vanishes. There is only one catch: this speed limit actually needs to be enforced!
I live in Syracuse NY. We have a strange collection of bike lanes. On one hand we have excellent bike lanes but they don't actually go anywhere anyone would want to be. Next we have bike lanes that are useful but they are curb lanes and the city actually sweeps all the trash into the bike lanes making them full of glass. Then anywhere that people actually want to be don't have any bike lanes. So we have good lanes to nowhere, bad lanes to some places, and no lanes to everywhere else. Moreover to get from the good bike lanes to anywhere, you have to travel down 40mph roads that have no curb, or curbs practically made of broken glass and rusty nails.
But the worst part is the cops in central NY get alot of funding and they dedicated themselves to keeping the roads clear of cyclists who are left with no option other than use the car only lanes.
In the past month I've been stopped half a dozen times for not riding on the glass filled curb. I've even been ordered to ride on the sidewalk, which is actually treated the same as if you were driving a car on the sidewalk by the local courts.
I have been told by cops that I'm an idiot who deserves to die for holding up traffic. I've had to explain to 2 different judges how bike tires can't ride on nails and glass. One of those judges told me I should be a good citizen and clean up the curbs for free if I want to ride a bike. The other told me I'm endangering kids in cars by causing parents to move into opposing traffic to pass me.
My lawyer told me that riding a bicycle isn't technically illegal but riding a bike on the road is a crime even if there are no other options.
Last but not least. The local government is trying to remove all curb lanes and make everything in the city sharies as you call them. But once again they don't go anywhere and they just want to use them to make convicting people for riding in car lanes easier in court.
It honestly feels like the government actively opposes bikes and wants to put all cyclist in prison, while trying to portray the exact opposite.
This is mainly because even though Syracuse is a college town. Only relatively wealthy kids can afford to go to SU and they can all buy cars with their parent's money.
So the local government wants to look friendly to college students. But in reality their best way to do that is to screw over cyclists as hard as possible.
I have to go back to court tomorrow morning because I've been charged with attempted vehicular assault by riding my bike through a festival crowd. The judge isn't an idiot so the charges will be dropped. But the cop said a bike is a vehicle and riding through a crowd where the roads have been blocked off could actually kill people, and is the same as if someone drove a car through the crowd. He said if he sees me do it again he'll charge me with committing an act of terrorism.
O and I'm a white guy. How do you think they treat black cyclists?
As a European... Yes. And? Oh I see it’s way too narrow and there isn’t enough space between cars and people biking. But honestly: I hope you keep up, it isn’t like there wasn’t enough space (there’s way too much!) and when I rode a bike living in the us I was viewed as kind of an alien and I suddenly realised how urban planning affected the way I‘m getting to places this heavily. Before I thought bike paths on almost every mayor road and a separated bike network through side streets with modal filters and parks was the norm and that it’s absolutely nothing special to go in a city by bike for groceries or commuting.
Baby steps....keep going.....!! Greetings from The Netherlands.......
Hey Tom. I recently bought an ebike for commuting and many of your videos have been helpful to me (my poncho arrives tomorrow!). As you mentioned it in this video, I thought I’d let you know your videos have certainly played a key role in getting me onto a bike - thank you!
I always see it as if people feel safe they'll use it and it people see it being used and it's popularity grows then theres often incentive to make them better, great video!
There were a lot of very interesting issues about cycle lanes in that film. I think it is true that cyclists are often so grateful for any consideration by town planners that they don’t like to criticise anything that is done for them. Certainly that is the case in North America and in the UK where I live.
It was very good to include Jane’s contribution because I think there is probably a lot of truth in what she has to say. It looks to me like the lane is rather narrow. There really is little excuse for that when we look at the vast expanse of road available to car drivers.
However it is progress and yes, as progress it is to be welcomed.
I live in Brighton & Hove city which is the greenest city in the UK. The Green party is very powerful here. We have seen over the last couple of years cycle lanes that are actually rather good. On some four lane streets the council took some of the entire outside lanes and turned them into cycle lanes. This brought absolute fury from the car lobbyists. It was quite funny actually. Their sense of entitlement is something to behold!
Unfortunately the council had to retreat a bit removing these really good cycle lanes in some places. However most of what they did remains.
I want to see more, much more!
This pickup truck 0:20 be like "there is not enough VROOM on the street"
Whenever I see motorists being intentionally loud I imagine there must be some school kids behind the wheel competing on who is able to fart louder.
The driver of that truck is the kind of person who would taste diesel before putting it in his truck to make sure it was not contaminated with "libtards" while he was high on his pills to enlarge his micro peen.
watch then rage if someone suggests we raise gas prices tho
@@jdv943 luckily that’s something the f̶r̶e̶e̶ market regulates. Gas prices are about to skyrocket. VROOM getting expensive 💨
@@pj9609 free market? youre insane.
@@anonymousanonymous1611 lmfao spot on
It's so true. When a bike lane is built I'm so happy about it that I overlook any flaws it might have but over time they should be addressed. It shouldn't be set and forget. The street I live on was a major walking route during the 2010 Olympics and they added excellent, and wide, bike lanes. But they only go 4 blocks before you hit water on one end and they dump cyclists out into what is now a pedestrian mall. Also they chose to protect it with low angled curbs that a bike or car can drive up easily so at every intersection cars pull up into the bike lane to use it as a right turn lane. So we take the good with the bad. Thankful to have something, wish it was better.
Build, evaluate, learn, adapt. And you’ll get there (or there abouts) in the end. Good vid and good luck.
So funnily enough, your video reminded me i should comment you got me to buy Vincita bike panniers as my first foray into the whole thing as i am using an old mountain bike with no frame eyelets for the traditional bike racks. Its been a joy.
I was *nearly* hit by an SUV who suddenly turned right across my path while riding down this bike lane a few days ago. High speed, no indicator, and I was merely a few centimetres away from being ran over even after I slammed on my brakes. I’m a new cyclist and I’m discouraged. I constantly feel like every car is just going to whip across the path again when I cycle down this one.
I'm envious; my town's all about sharrows and an occasional painted lane. But I'm working on it.
Keep going!
I remember a lot of those places. It's great to see them. It's nice that they're improving things.
Great video! Any improvement is a step in the right direction and I think many of us here in North America are going through the same evolution in infrastructure design and perception of biking as the Netherlands did. I am currently in design with our towns first separated bike lanes, and I can only imagine what things will be like here in 10-15 years!
3:42 the restaurant he pointed at is where I work during my summers home from uni. Model Milk and Pigeon Hole on 17th Ave SW.
You should talk about the wide curbside cycle-paths and protected intersections that the Netherlands has. Building those will really make cycling for everyone.
The second this video began I knew it was Calgary. I enjoy riding my bike on the 12th avenue bike lane.
I used to live in Tucson, AZ and now live in Phoenix. Tucson probably had the best bicycle network I've seen so far in the State at least with a few multi-use bike path that mostly have grade separated interchanges. And dedicated bicycle boulevards next to major thoroughfares so you don't have to spend too much time on those suicide lanes in the stroads. In Phoenix they have bike paths at the canals which is great but there's no marked crosswalks on most intersections at stroads. Riding on the sidewalk here is legal which I take advantage of because I don't want to commit suicide riding a bike.
Not Just Bikes channel brought me here. You have a great channel.
I use that lane frequently on my rides home from the reservoir loop, and I love what it is now versus a couple of years ago, but I agree that it is too narrow, and that taxi pull-in bit is disconcerting.
I have been writing to the city about the way the 5th street lane stops dead and very awkwardly at the Ship...I hope that some of this recently announced federal money, along with some new blood on council in a few months will fix it.
You should come see the cool new lane along 24 ave NW, west of 14st...interested in your thoughts on the design.
These videos have been great! I have just bought a new bike after a year of commuting on a 2nd hand one and your tips and advice have helped me consider what I really want from a commuter bike.
I think a really useful future video could be what to consider when buying a 2nd hand bike for non-cyclists and the pros and cons of it as it is the most accessible and viable entry option to cycle commuting for many people.
Thanks again for the awesome content!
Great idea. Thanks for sharing!
Recently discovered your channel and, I must say, I am completely hooked. Impressive content and production for a channel with this many subscribers. Incredibly underrated. Think I'll stick around!!
Welcome aboard! Great to have you
10k subs congrats! :D
I have to agree on the taxi stand and the width. If they wanted a taxi stand they should've made a floating island like you would for a bus stop. The single lanes should be wider and make it bidirectional to give even more space for overtaking.
That it is bussier now is just the concequence of it being so much better than it was. Good infra attracts more people (as it should). That's also what helps making it safer and improving more though, it's a desired effect.
Fellow Calgarian here! I am just happy that there are bike lanes to begin with. I don’t have a commute per se, but just being able to spend a nice weekend on my bike downtown, or maybe drive in from my home in Chestermere and park outside downtown if I need to and then just use my scooter the rest of the way in bike lanes instead of having to contend with parking is a-OK in my book!
Great to hear you using them!
Calgary! I could not for the life of me figure out what city this is. Makes sense though, I haven't been to Calgary yet.
That's so cool, I'm not much good at advocating for things but I did recently fill out a survey about what residents want from my local shire and I made sure to let them know that as somone with kids and being environmentaly concous I'd love to feel safer biking with seperated bike lanes
The voices of citizens just trying to live their lives happily sometimes carries more weight than a designated advocate. So good work 🤜🏼🤛🏼
It looks better than a panted bicycle gutter. I wouldn't call it a separated bike lain, but maybe a smi-separated bike lain.
My city calls this a "buffered" bike lane. There are also "painted" which is exactly what it sounds like, "protected" which is a proper protected bike lane (unfortunately rare in my city), "neighbourhood greenways" which are basically quiet streets with sharrows, and then the city has coordinated with local cycling organizations to identify a number of "low stress routes" which are quiet streets with little traffic where it's a little safer to cycle in mixed traffic. There is also a fairly extensive network of multi-use pathways around the city. Moreso in the south than the north though. And many of the multi-use paths actually take you to useful locations and aren't just for leisure (though we have plenty of leisure trails too). There's still a ton of work left to do to improve cycling in my city, but we're doing a lot better than we were even 5 years ago.
Most impressed that the bike lane is cleared when it snows. In Cambridge, UK this never happens (to be honest, snow doesn't fall very often here) and the only safe way to cycle is to forsake the cycle lane and go onto the road.
No complaining today! LOL Awesome video as always!
Congrets from the Netherlands!
Thank you. The Netherlands continues to inspire many other countries.
@@Shifter_Cycling we just started Earlear. The adventige of a densly populated country and a greay action from the mothers in the 60 an 70.
@@Shifter_Cycling The only reason I started appreciating our cycling infrastructure was because of video's like yours, very easy to take things for granted that are "just there", literally every road with high volume or fast traffic has a separated bike lane, and trough streets with low volume / slow traffic has a non-separated bike lane.
Nice bike ;). It's partially thanks to videos like yours that I got a Priority Continuum Onyx myself. I've had it a couple weeks and just took it on my first 100k ride on Saturday.
Great to see improvements. Stockholm has recently revamped one of it's most dangerous intersection, before almost once a week I would see a cyclist get hit by another cyclist or car or have to do daring dodging. Now it is very safe, cars, cycles and pedestrians have their own lanes and are all seperated.
Nice to hear about a city taking responsibility for a dangerous intersections rather than blaming it on the users.
It's a start. I am truly hoping that this country gets their sh*t together and creates LOTS of cycling infrastructure. People want to ride their bikes and feel safe! It is a draw to a city to provide cycling infrastructure!! Thanks for the vid, you're doing great work for us all!
Hi i got here from NJB.
Thats not quite a Dutch bike path but its a start.
If you want to see bike paths called Redways check out Milton Keynes in the UK.
You can literally get to anywhere in the city from your doorstep on safe, wide tree lined paths. MK has so many Redways its unbelievable.
we have got a lot of new lanes in Memphis, but only two short parts of them are separated
My sister is very nervous on her electric bike, but they've recently moved to Hastings in south east England, so she can cycle all along the sea front, which has painted cycle and pedestrian sections. I guess it was relatively easy to do as the promenade is 30/40 feet wide in places. But it all peters out once you get to the Old Town, and at Bexhill the other end, which is the next town along the coast. So 4.3 miles.
Obviously is very difficult to add cycle lanes in older English towns with narrow streets. Heh, I've been to Copenhagen in Sweden, where it's all so different!
Yay for new bike lanes! Question - is there a parallel bike lane on the other side of the street for going in the opposite direction? My city's problem (Wilmington, NC) is that when they put in bike lanes, they're often only in one direction. I can go to my local grocery store in a (very crappy) painted bike lane, but going home I have to mix with traffic on the way back, on the same street. Often I'll see folks using the bike lane in the wrong direction, which is super dangerous because it's only wide enough for one bike going one way. It is soooooo frustrating!!
Ugh, this sounds awful. Yes, this street has lanes on both sides, so you can go both directions. We also have streets with bi-directional separated bike lanes, meaning one lane with two directions. It’s not as good as having them on both sides of the street, but at least you can go both ways.
I live in a very bike friendly city and can understand where the "to narrow" argument comes from... Since education is the mother of all solutions, i would suggest that driver and local officials sensibilisation coupled with legal incentives would do much more than any protected bike lane could... ☮️
How is that road not wide enough for buses? I've seem plenty of smaller streets that had buses drive on them.
Are American buses extra wide perhaps?
Nah, they are just not used to narrow streets so the bus drivers are't able to drive through a hole just 2cm bigger than their bus ;)
Of course that was a joke. The reson for that is that they don't know cm over there.
They probably just didn't want to get booed at for using "but it is more expensive". (Strangely enough I have never heard even once an "it's too expensive" guy saying "so get rid of the car lane and only build the bike lane" even though the car lane is the more expensive one by far.)
I can't complain about a separated bike lane, because where I live it's nonexistent. Not even painted bike lanes, we do have share the road signs and a law that vehicles give bikes at least 3' clearance when passing. That works great on a narrow road where the speed limit is 30-40 MPH and cars go between 50-70 MPH.
I agree that separated bike lanes aren’t necessary on every street, but on streets of higher speeds and more traffic they are a literal lifesaver.
Heh, ironic, we walked around that neighbourhood in 2019 when we visited.
It's always a question of what to celebrate. I certainly have had disagreements with folks at our city about celebrating infra I thought was....inadequate or even problematic. It does depend on the context. Giving a nuanced view of what is good, and what could be better can help move things along. I think I probably err on the side of higher standards these days, but any reasonably protected infrastructure I am willing to recognize as an improvement just because it's been such a long battle to get protected infra onto the radar.
Happy trails.
Hey, coming to you from Chicago. I am a competitive racer, was a messenger and still am a everyday commuter on bike. I also ran/managed shops and was part of the activism to make Chicago more bike capable(friendly). Over thirty years we have progressed to a bare minimum. Where I live up in the northwest part we have some of the oldest and best bike lanes, albeit no curb protection but wide. The more condensed areas are getting routes but they lack the space of the many riders. People want to ride but unless you are a true Cyclist it is, to this day a daunting challenge. Shame. Coupled with the still present, insidious reaction of a motorist being bothered by your existence. For me it is no bother, I ride faster than them. But, people have gotten better. A pandemic brought out the inner child and now bikes fly off the floor of shops. I digress. Shifter, you do hit many nails and allow me this example. My commute to work is only 1.1 miles. Yeah. But I also have a beautiful forest preserve cutting through, which I grew up on and still use for MTB training. Anyway, my company is located in a suburb just north of Chicago. That city just remade a stretch that takes me directly to work. The problem is the lane is way too narrow, the buffer is wider than need be, reducing the lane. The lane is poorly marked and runs into the sidewalk at intersections. Why can't we ever listen to this community or heed what bike countries have done? That is rhetorical. Nice video.
I’ve ridden in Chicago a bit and it has so much potential! And it felt like your city had momentum a decade ago. I hope it gets better!
Hey Tom! Have you thought about doing a video comparing different ways to keep your bike safe/different types of bike locks? I live in Austin TX and like a lot of other cities, bike theft can be a major issue/deterrent for folks to get on bikes and go places.
Ooh, I’ve got something big cooking around bike theft. Stay tuned!
@@Shifter_Cycling !!!
really enjoy your videos
Thank you for watching!
Come ride the 2nd ave seperated death trap in NYC. because they let cars park between the seperated bike lane and the normal lanes, turning vehicles almost never look before turning. almost every time Im on it I almost get hit.
In my city, which considers itself "bike friendly", a "bike lane" is just a painted line on a city street that really means little to drivers who have no problem encroaching upon it if it suits them. But at least a painted bike lane helps to keep traffic a little and safer distance from you.
I sometimes think painted lanes are worse than no bike lane at all. At least a street with no infrastructure doesn’t create a false sense of security
@@chrisblue4652 if there is a bicycle lane/path, a cyclist should use that lane/path and not switch from one to the other in rappid succession as this can create dangerous situations aswell.
@@chrisblue4652 you say you want painted lines to create a 2 feet buffer zone between the car lane and the seperated bicycle path, but paint does not stop people parking their car on the bicycle path like you just mentioned, you need a physical barrier between a car lane and the seperated bicycle path to prevent this, and this can be as minimal as having a kerb between the 2 or have the seperated bicycle path raised a bit, though on roads where cars go above 25mph it is probably more advisable to have barrier wall between the two.
If you got a decently sized bicycle lane, you should be able to pass slower moving traffic, potential debris or large potholes while still staying in the bicycle lane, also large potholes should be less of a problem on seperated bicycle paths if cars stay off it.
the left turn problem is most likely the fault of the North American intersections standard itself, the next vid should show you how to make a "safer" intersection by using the same space as the intersection that it can replace.
th-cam.com/video/FlApbxLz6pA/w-d-xo.html ( less than 3 minutes long )
the vid is from 2011, it is possible that the "standard American Intersaction" is different now, but it should still give a view on how you could make an intersection safer for cyclist and people ingeneral.
@@chrisblue4652 I live in the Netherlands and have been cycling to school or work on and off for about 20 years, I already live in that reality you say will never happen in America.
So, American, it is on you and other American citizens that want better/safer bicycle infrastructure to make it the reality for the places you live/work in. Or don't and keep being seen as the third-rank road you are, as that is what most people in North America think of cyclists anyways, a nuisance, a pest, a hindrance to their car is king mentality.
But to answer your questoins:
Yes, wider more noticeable striped paint on the ground to create a bigger buffer zone between the cyclist and car is an improvement over a 1 single stripe, though the magic of paint does not stop people not getting on the bicycle path with their cars knowingly or unknowingly, other downside with more/wider paint on the road is, when wet, the painted parts can be slippery.
You are also correct on that you dont like the small curbs with that narrow bike lane, but the problem is not the curb, it is the narrow width of said bike lane.
You argue that with the small curbs, cars can still get into the bicycle lane, and yes it is possible, the thing is if the driver accidentally goes into a seperated bicycle path with a curb, the driver would notice hitting or going over a curb and should react by slowing down the vehicle, while with your prefered painted lines on the ground the driver will not and might never know he/she was in the wrong place to begin with.
And again, it is not the curb that limits your maneuverability, it is the limited width of the bicycle lane you have a problem with.
You can also bash your head falling out of your bed, going on and off the stairs, getting in/out the bath/shower, sooo, where are you trying to go with this? Want to foampad everything? how about everyone wears a bouncy castle suit?
@@chrisblue4652 yea... sometimes it can really suprise you how bullheaded some of the car centric people can be, not seeing the bigger picture of getting more people commuting via an alternative to the car by investing in good bicycle infrastructure and public transport, that it will help them, the drivers who has no other option than a car, to reach their destination faster aswell.
The bicycle infra we have here today in the Netherlands was not build in 1 day, it is a system of adding, updating, building, testing that has been done for 4-5 decades, with that saying getting all 330 mil heads in the same direction will never happen since the topic is just as divided as politic itself, though there are cities in America with bicycle unions/groups with growing number of members to try and get their city to implement bicycle infra. start small and the rest will follow idea.
Over the years, street designers from around the US and probably also Transportation Department Engineers have come to the Netherlands and Copenhagen (Denmark) to see the different sollutions we have here ( I think this was one of such events th-cam.com/video/ur7Jaitm_sk/w-d-xo.html but a short section of it), it is probably a good idea for people that are going to design bicycle infrastructure that they themselves use a bicycle, that way they can first hand experience the possible dangers a cyclist can/will encounter on their journey and hopefully reduce the risk.
Most of the reactions you see from people that encounter newly build bad infrastructure is that they question if the people designing the road ever been on a bicycle themselves.
Space is always a struggle and whatever sollution is being picked, there will be people against it, though i would not go for the demolish buildings option, if space is limited but there is a need for wider bicycle path and/or footpath you can always shrink the width of the car lanes (in most cases they got loads of wiggle room) or remove a car lane completely, or make it a 1 way car street but a bi-directional bicycle road. (whatever the the solution becomes, if there will be a bicycle path implemented do always make it a bi-directional one)
being one of the metric users what is ' again? " was inches right?
What you are saying is when the curb between the carlane and the bicyclepath is too small that it can create dangerous situations with big hunks of metal and plastic getting of the ground and/or that the car in question possibly get trapped, as that is what the data you got tells you. Those are a couple of cons indeed, though at least the driver have noticed they are in the wrong place which usually does not happen when you only have some paint on the ground.
At the start you asked if a double white line with some striped pattern lines between them will be better than a single line, for this 100% yes, as more drivers are less likely to accidentally swerve within a bicycle lane when the "buffer space" between both increases, the problem is that it occasionally still will happen and the distracted driver usually does not notice till it is too late (playing with their phone or infotainment), if a curb is a no-go, the same for flower pots and walls, how about making the painted lines thicker? not persee wider but higher, so when a car wheels goes over them it should warn the driver for being in the wrong area?
We got a similar solutions for drivers that are about to go off the asphalt edge by having grooves in the asphalt, the wheels going over these grooves results in vibrations going through the car and thus alerting the driver.
My city's new plan is a good start, but there are sharrows where I think there should be a painted lane at least, and the painted bike lanes should be separated with a kerb like these ones. There are good seperate trails, though. It's a decent start!
Near where I live we have old converted train lines converted to trails which go from one end of the city to the other🚴🇺🇸.
I am from the Netherlands and as many people knows, we have a lot of bikelanes where people feel save on it. But even here, just building a bikelane for safety cannot be enough. For each situation or traffic behaviour the bikelanes constantly needs to evolved for better safety. So what the woman says is not unreasonable, those are issues to pick on. To cityhall needs to research how to make the bikeline on those specific places better. It happends in the Netherlands as a second habit. 🙃
I don't understand how regular citizens in Canada seem to know what's better for a bike lane than the city planners.
@@pbilk the citizen are using those bikelanes more often than the city planner. So it is good for future citiplans to receive feedback from the locals about the bikelane. Maybe the new bikelane created a new situation that makes drivers and cyclist confused at a certain point but the cityplanner could not predict it would happen. Those confusion could lead to unsafety for both parties.
Interesting perspective. I've been commuting by bike for well over 20 years. I don't like the protected lanes. As your guest said, they are too narrow, and I don't like that I can't get out of the bike lane into the auto lane if there is debris in the bike lane. I much prefer an unprotected lane (or ideally a dedicated bike path, but I'm not expecting those everywhere). I've also heard complaints from fellow cyclists that when they are driving they don't like the protected lanes for similar reasons. The curbs make the car lane feel too narrow as well. I'm lucky though. I live between Denver and Boulder, Colorado and commuting here is pretty damn good. It's not perfect, but it's getting there.
Go to Speer Blvd in Denver downtown. Best bike lanes ever it goes under the street.
At least you have some protected lanes. Down in Iowa (Cedar Rapids) we have more lanes on the edge of door zones then anything else.
The bone the city gave us, and it’s a big bone is the bike path that is being built that will eventually go out to our neighbor city of Marion. Which I’m grateful for and hopefully encourages more riding.
Do you mean the bike lanes that are painted just to the left of parked cars?
Clearly that was designed by somebody who is not a bike rider.
We have some of those here in La Crosse on a fairly busy county trunk highway which supposedly forces bicyclists to ride in a narrow lane right next to traffic rather than as far from traffic as possible which most do, bike lane or not.
Door zone bike lanes are the worst 🤦🏼♂️
@@stevec3872 yup those are the ones
Good that jane came around. So I dont't must complain about this half finished lane.
If you have a lot bikers with diffrend speeds in your area, then you will see why you must have cicle-lanes wider then 2 Meters.
lucky enough to say that all the places I’ve been to in my home state; almost everywhere; there are bike lanes on at the shoulders of the road; but they are not perfect as of yet. there is no devider so accidents are unnavodable.
To have something is better then nothing. The current bike infrastucture in the Netherlands isn't also build overnight. Some streets in Amsterdam had 3 reconstuctions from the 1960's to get good separate bikelanes.
but this is 2021 and not the 60's
its like saying me feeding my kids heavy metals is not child abuse, because it sure is now
I’m glad you got your bike lane. I ride bikes and walk and drive a car. I think she is right. It’s too narrow so faster riders can’t get past slower riders. My biggest complaint is riders who don’t use them when available. They use the sidewalk or clog up the road and annoy car drivers. Same with pedestrians. Use the path and don’t walk in the bike lanes or the road.
As for improper bike lanes, cities can do it right on the cheap. What's common is curb-parallel parking-bike lane. What they should do is curb-bike lane-parallel parking. The parked cars can be a nice buffer, and after enough tickets,the drivers will eventually learn to not park next to the curb.
This is true as long as parked cars are kept away from the intersections so visibility can be maintained.
probably a better/safer way is:
Footpath / bicycle path / barrier / parked cars (if needed) / road. and mirror it for the other side.
do note that with barrier i meant some kind of space between the bicycle path and the parked cars or road to prevent dooring events
Great improvement. Sharrows suck.
Don't wanna make bike lanes too wide though. One time when I was biking, a car pulled into the bike line behind me and used it as a right turn lane!
Omg people do that here all the time. The city I live in recently tore up about 3km stretch, it used to be 4 lanes for cars. 2 each direction. They made it 1 lane each direction for cars, 1 lane each direction for bike and 1 centre lane to turn. Cars drive right in the marked bike lanes and use them for right hand turns. Doesnt help the bike lane suddenly ends at an intersection while the road continues. Poor planning
What happens when the car turning right doesn't see you because a van is parked on the parking spot if the car parking is away from the curb? ??
The intersections can definitely be treacherous. Visibility is key. Parked cars should be farther back at intersections.
@@Shifter_Cycling I saw this in a suburb of Chicago and to me it looked more safe on the left side of parked car. You are more visible and the driver does not have to look over cars to see the bikes. I love cycling and luckily the town I live in has good bike routes and you can avoid traffic or tight streets..
I don’t know about traffic rules in North America, but if a pedestrian is walking along the road where a car wants to turn right. Who has priority? In my country the pedestrian going straight along the road, has priority over the car turning. So the car needs to give priority to the pedestrian walking alongside him on the pavement and is crossing the side street, where he wants to turn into. You have to give priority to through traffic, being a pedestrian, a bicyclist or a motor vehicle. The pavement is part of the road, so is the separate bicycle road or painted lane. So turning into a side street, the car has to stop and look if the road is free or that he has to give priority to someone else. It is just common traffic behavior in my country.
An associate of mine (whose wife is Dutch and who cycles there regularly) recently commented that one of the reasons cycling in the Netherlands works so well is because pretty much all the motorists are also bicyclists. That is most certainly not the case in the vast majority of the U.S. I am on a city's Complete Streets Advisory Council and you'd think the world was going to end when new project plans that include cycling infrastructure and improved pedestrian infrastructure are put out for public comment... The transportation cyclists we have typically do not own cars as they work low wage jobs and they would never attend a public meeting to offer input about what would work for them. Even advocates come in with biases-bi-directional multi-use paths next to the roads are popular with many of them but the transitions to the rest of the transportation infrastructure are flawed. Typically the projects end with no viable connection.
Getting consultants and engineers to understand the local issues and the cyclist perspective is also a challenge. This as they all have the same basic schooling and were taught to use the same "official" design guidelines. Constructively challenging that paradigm it not easy.
Advocates need to be able to articulate what the issues are in terms that the consultants and engineers understand while at the same time offering them viable alternatives. It can be done... For example, locally a DOT project was presented that, to me a veteran non-competitive cyclist (decades of riding for transportation, recreation, mountain biking and long distance multi-month bicycle touring), was a meat grinder for cyclists and pedestrians. I articulated why it was a meat grinder and offered alternatives. Some five years later and another $6 million + that project is going to construction. It incorporates many of the design elements I offered up while also eliminating almost all the design elements that would kill cyclists and pedestrians. Do I think it's perfect now... No. However, it is light years ahead of where it was when the original design was presented.
Great comment. Thanks for sharing, and I hope you keep working to make your city better!
How is this narrow bike lane supposed to get cleaned and/or defrosted if it is separated from the main road? No way those big cleaning machines will fit in there.
Also i see no way to overtake slow bike commuters here either without having an accident thanks to those high lane borders .
Am I missing something here?
@Robert cute idea. Never gonna happen.
This bike lane looks like the ones that were built in the late 90's/early 2000's in Paris. They are currently being phased out and replaced with wider, better separated (hard separation on the car side but a gentle slope on the bike side), better drainage (no gutter effect), thought out cycling continuity, and often even larger bidirectional lanes.
Still they were clearly a step up at the time even if, as cycling got more popular, more experienced and faster cyclists stopped using them because of the impossibility to pass.
I’ve been watching the growth in cycling in Paris recently and it’s so inspiring! Keep going!
Very cool.
I prefer sharrows over bike lanes, especially poorly done bike lanes. Here in Tacoma, I've suggested eliminating bike lanes on the long downhill sections of roads into downtown and doubling the width on the uphill segment to give riders more room where it is needed.
Your optimism is not misplaced at all. Baby steps.
Cities that know how to do bike-as-transportation and have fully implemented their system (i.e. no place in North America) obviously are far ahead of this bike lane. But, they didn't get there overnight. They had their missteps and halfway solutions too; they're just farther along in the process.
That your city accomplished as much as they did is huge, even if they have a long way to go. The mere fact that the path is getting too crowded is in and of itself a major step. It brings the long-understood fact about building bike infrastructure leading to at-capacity use of that infrastructure home to the local environment; having city officials know it academically isn't nearly as useful as having them see it in front of their eyes.
Baby steps.
Just curious, how does the snow get cleared? It seems pretty narrow for it to go onto it with road cleaning machinery, am I wrong?
they should learn from Denmark and other Nordic countries. I live in Norway. it's pretty good here, a lot of paths for both cyclists and pedestrians. but where I live there are some higher speed main roads where there are no paths, but I know they are planned, and will eventually come to connect the cities. I think that's the only thing missing where I live.
In Denmark the infrastructure was developed early on so cities have wide spaces and wide path for riding bikes everywhere.
lts an improvement but i agree its a death trap. Those 4 inch concrete curbs are not going to stop a car. What city is this in btw ?
Maybe a long ways to go BUT to have a city that cares enough to put money into cycling infrastructure is impressive.
I hate when I am on a bike lane and suddenly is just ends with no warning of any kind.
Pretty much agree. 2nd St is an improvement, but still not perfect. If you have an appetite for danger, you should do a video about 14th / 15th AVE. Those painted bike lanes are pretty terrible. Cars pretty much drive with one wheel in the bike lane at all times.
I've avoided those lanes for so long I've almost forgotten about them. Thanks for the reminder!
@@Shifter_Cycling I think the wide roads gives motorists the confidence to go fast. Pure danger.
@@obyrnedd got to agree with you there!
No appetite for danger! Save your digits!!
@@obyrnedd It's proven. Narrower roadways slow motorists' speeds.
did you ever go to Europe to bike? Would love to make you envious with our Dutch bike structure..... I love the bike highways or fastroutes between cities.
Yes I have, and yes I am envious!
Where is this?
Minneapolis MN has many bike paths, but a lot are horrible. Around popular areas they are shared with pedestrians (including dog walkers on one side with the leashed dog on the other) and have 10 mph speed limit. Others also feature a down and then up a curb height handicap ramp at every cross street. It gets old in a hurry. So in those areas bikes take to the streets. Motorists are annoyed and show displeasure at that; they think we ought be on the path and don't think about our dilemma. When you have time to compare it for them later, to driving where every road has speed bumps, they get it. And realize I am describing the safe bike lanes. I haven't even mentioned the unsafe ones.
Good points 🙂
Covid has made my city "make space for people" (Edinburgh, Scotland) which entails hard edging the bus lane so people can walk past each other, keeping the 2 meter distance on narrow side walks, pushing us cyclists into the single lane of traffic, cars, buses and trucks!
Other parts of the city have good segregated bike lanes and old railway routes paved for walking and cycling, (not segregated).
I've never understood why the planners think it's ok to have cyclists and pedestrians using the same path!
It's the usual problem of not joining the dots!
I think there are some low-traffic situations where shared pedestrian-cyclist routes can work. But if they are good, they’ll soon attract so many people that they’ll be rendered useless. Separation is best, imho
@@Shifter_CyclingYes I avoid these routes at weekends and good weather 😄👍
I have a 90 minute commute to work on a shared use path. The pathway follows a decommissioned railroad. Access to this shared use trial is provide by trailheads peppering the roads and neighbourhoods in close proximity to the trail, connecting many areas of the city and stretching to outlying communities.
After a year of commuting by bike I can tell you that I prefer to be in a lane, on the road with vehicles. The innumerable 'Karens & Chads' I encounter on the shared trail are beyond reproach.
On the trail, I've been accused of the following;
1) Too quiet an approach. I get a louder electric horn.
2) Too loud-new horn is not acceptable, "a bike shouldn't sound like that"! (Same individual who complained I was too quiet earlier).
3) Too speedy (my e-bike governs at 33kph/Trail speed limit=33kph). There are many conventional cyclist I come across that easily exceed this limit. Also, they tend to ride in packs.
4) Too disruptive - Apparently I cycled in on some hippie's individual healing ritual in the forest, on public land (a regional park), and was informed that cycling was prohibited, on the cycle path.
But here's what I encounter;
1) Families & neighbours having countless 'reunions' across the breadth of the shared path, ignorant to the world at large; I encounter this 10-30 times per trip.
2) Individuals & groups that insist on congesting trailheads by loitering at them. I assume these are the very people that stop abruptly at the top of escalators.
3) Off-leash dogs on a shared trail are a hazard; I'm already dealing with deaf 90-yearolds and spooked horses, I don't want your over-excited, over-protective canine to get hurt.
4) People who don't understand 'On your left' - this is far too common. I've had to dodge countless simpletons who can't differentiate left vs. right. Sad really. Also some of these people drive!
I have been physically threatened by dog owners on 4 separate occasions; dogs, twice.
I always signal. I always alert by bell and voice. I always slow down whilst passing pets and families. I always wave and say thank you as I pass. I give a thumb's up to little kids on their first bikes. I wish 'Good morning' to my 'regulars'.
On the road, the worst I get is a motorist jockeying for position and the occasional middle finger. Oh, I was once told to "Get off the road" once.
@@jasonarthurs3885 Yep, pretty much the same here 😬
Agree, I live in Edinburgh too and started cycling in February. I have a tricycle and find that some of the limited cycle lanes are barely wide enough to accommodate and there is largely no accommodation made for places where cars are routinely parked on the cycle path and thus forcing cyclists into the main road and busy traffic lanes. The old railway line is a good cycle path away from traffic. It does get a lot of use from dog walkers, pedestrians in general and cyclists and it does have an unspoken code of how it is used but you do have to give a lot more notice that you are passing so that the dogs can be brought into the side safely. Edinburgh has a long way to go before it is safe to properly cycle through the city. My biggest bugbears are the potholes and narrowness of the lanes.
Yes, that was my first impression... that thing is way to narrow, you cannot overtake.
A bikeline invites more bikes so it should offer the possibility to overtake .
so yes from me too
: " Baby steps....keep going.....!! Greetings from The Netherlands......."
I love separated bike lanes. Unfortunately I live and bike commute in Brooklyn NY and bike lanes here are horrible if existent. There's not enough. It's discouraging for new cyclists to get on the road.
My wife doesn't want me to commute to work via a bicycle - she says it isn't safe to cycle on streets in Maryland - how did she come to this conclusion?
Imagine having a bike line.
I'm still imagining.
🥲
Same here. Where I live all we have is the occasional sign with a silhouette of a bike saying "SHARE THE ROAD".
A few days ago I saw a cement mixer coming up behind me in my mirror saw that he was neither slowing down nor hinting that he was going to go around me. I ended up veering off the road so as to not end up a statistic.
Most people around here seem willing to share the road but the ones that aren't, yikes.
I agree with the criticisms in some of the comments, makes one wonder if the designers have ever ridden a bicycle or even asked cyclists what they want.
My city is so hilly.
OKAY MAN !!