he said green as he bent over to play the shot. I can understand a little noise masking his voice. That said the referee basically called Thorburn and a proportion of the crowd liars. I think that was unfortunate and Id hope the referee apologised afterwards.
The crowd heard as well as the commentators and the viewers. Disgraceful behaviour from Higgins and the ref. Utter incompetence by the ref and snidey shit from Alex!
Kevin Durham - I thought all the Canadians were quite partial to the odd line of Peruvian marching powder?! Lol. But no, you're right, it was only Kirk who had a massive problem with it..
@Kevin Durham Kirk got a lot of help from his fellow player John Virgo, who let him live with him in his house just south of London while he sorted himself out (I think it took about a year).
@@fdfsdfsvsfgsg4888 Snooker rules : "12. Nominated Ball....... If requested by the referee, the striker must declare which ball they are on." So why - if he hadn't heard - didn't ref ask? And why award 7. Not a good look kiddo.
@@fdfsdfsvsfgsg4888 there are rules for a reason but there is sportsmanship that does trump rules. Because rules are only to interfere when sportsmanship is unclear.
@the thomascopgroup that wouldnt work mate. becouse then alex would stop playing to the crowd then show thorburn safety shots that he would find impossible to get out off plus how on earth did he manage to get that shot safe as that. alex was a master tactician of the game. Steve davis said alex was the greatest safety player hes ever played. Alex could get out of a snooker to then snooker you back only better. Time after time. Alex was much better than we saw? A player you didnt want to get rough with on the table or he would hammer you in every way the game is played. He just didnt win as much couse he played for the crowd and he did win alot and also got to alot of finals that he should have won. Alex is in another level to cliff
I remember this game like it was yesterday , it was so diferent then , top players with such charisma, the grinder, cliff, against the hurracane, alex. R. I. P Alex .
Alex Higgins did nothing wrong. Thorburn knew the ref didn't hear it, as they always say the colour out loud when they hear it. It was only a 7 point foul, made no difference but Thorburn threw the match away because of it.
Snooker is a gentlemens game. If Higgins says he didn't hear it and the crowd did, or if Higgins won't accept that green was nominated then he is not being fair.
Yes ref repeats it nowadays-perhaps stemmed from this incident. Thought Alex was a bit of an arse there, but to be fair he was probably already hammered and his ears had stopped working.
He didn't only not admit it, you can hear Higgins make the point of telling the referee in the first few seconds he didn't hear it without even being asked. He could have just kept quiet and out of it while the referee decided.
@@mutinyonthekitkat It looks like the referee approached Higgins in his chair and asked if he heard Thorburn nominate and if he did not, then what else could he say? Saying you did not hear something just means you personally did not hear it, not necessarily that it did not happen and the referee had already made his decision by the time he asked Higgins while Thorburn left the arena.
The Grinder later admitted that he should have said "green" louder. Referees should always repeat the player's nomination, so no repeat from John Smythe should have told Thorburn that he had not heard it ( I didn't hear it the first time either).
Steve Edge - I agree Steve, I've noticed Smythe has come in for some harsh criticism by a few on here but I actually thought he was a decent referee back in the day..
I agree, Thorburn should of just laughed this off, as it was only 7 points and made no difference. He was in the wrong, as he needs to be sure the referee heard his nomination. Instead, he let it get to him and also fired up Alex Higgins, who didn't want to lose after that incident.
@@sharpvidtube Canadians arent the friendliest of people so he probably wouldnt have laughed it off. Anyway I heard him nominate and I had my volume pretty low so the ref was at fault & why was Higgins awarded 7 points. Even though it wasnt a foul the points awarded to higgins should have only been 4. Just as well the miss rule wasnt used back then or there could have been a fight at this rate.
This is bizarre, he CLEARLY says green. Nowadays I never hear players loudly saying which colour they're going for but here it's so clear what colour he nominated.
They did once back in 1989 and the match lasted until 2007. During the 4th frame Cliff Thornburn had to shave no less than 36 times and Peter Ebdon went on holiday to Jamaica for 3 weeks.
Higgins was a great player, very exciting to watch...but unfortunately not a nice person. This lack of sportsmanship is exactly how Higgins lived his life.
Higgins might have been lying when he claimed not to have heard it. The ref appeared ready to change his ruling ... but Higgins’ statement stopped any change.
I remember this very well. I also remember that Alex was on of the most honest players in the game. He would call fouls on himself when the ref hadn't seen and prided himself on that aspect of his game. He was further away than John Smythe and probably a few vodkas deep. Alex was many things but he was never a cheat at snooker.
I watched this when it was aired and distinctly remember my bemusement when the cloth eared ref said he didn't hear Cliff nominate green.I heard it loud and clear THEN,and can hear it NO PROBLEM now, even with the crappy low audio on my laptop.
I can remember watching this when it happened all them years ago everybody heard cliff say green ball but not Alex he could be a right prick when he wanted to be in his day there's a film called rack pack worth checking out if your fan of snooker from the hay days of the 80s.
As an Alex fan even I have to admit he could be a complete arshole off the table but whatever you do, do not take that film seriously, much of it has been invented to make it entertaining, Alex never spoke to Steve or Cliff in the way he did in the film, it put Alex in a very bad light.
Martyn H Thorburn was mostly at fault here, firstly for mumbling his nominated ball, secondly for not waiting for confirmation from the referee before he played the shot. If Higgins had been a gentleman and a good sport he would have said "I didn't hear your nomination, but if you say you nominated the green, I accept that" and then left it with the referee, but Higgins was neither a good sport or a gentleman, so Thorburn's last mistake was to act like a petulant child, he should have put his shoulders back and got on with the game.
I remember once when John Williams instead of taking a colour out of the pocket to respot picked up the white from the bed of the table. He immediately realised his mistake and stood there rather embarrassed. Clearly what he had to do was reposition the cue ball as best as possible. Higgins got out of his seat and decided that it was a foul by his opponent and that he should come back to the table! Madness.
Higgins clearly cheating. He said Cliff 'didn't say anything', not that he didn't HEAR Cliff say anything. Since Cliff did say green, Higgins was lying and therefore cheating.
Ysgol You stupid brainless pathetic Bellend. ... how did Higgins cheat...you idiot. ... Higgins didn't hear Thorburn say anything. ..... Higgins didn't say that Thorburn never said anything. .... you are so stupid like the rest of your pathetic family. Thank you.
@@robertosalazar6867 You're a very ignorant person aren't you. CALM DOWN. Verbally attacking and insulting someone because you don't agree with them completely destroys any valid argument you may have.
The 1980s was snooker greatest era,..great players, and characters,...and the 85 world final Davis v Taylor,....snooker gripped the nation.....great times
This was not on very late at night. The incident happened earlier on in the afternoon on the live coverage. David vine comes on with it again on the late night highlights programme.
It's quite obvious that green was nominated. Higgins was never known for his sportsmanship, so I would not doubt he just went along with the referees decision even though he heard Thorburn say it and just wanted the 7 points. Funny how the microphone picked it up and the people in the lower rows could hear hit quite plainly, but the two people whose opinion really mattered didn't hear a thing.
@Richard Jones A bit more than that in fact. I didn't notice it the first time I watched this video over a year ago, but I came back again, and noticed that Alex actively denied hearing Cliff nominate the green - *even though he wasn't asked.* This happened immediately after the audience "corrected" John Smyth...you can hear (I _think)_ Higgins seem to butt his nose in (rudely) and dispute Thorburn's word. I don't know what Cliff said since that time, but of course we can't get Alex's side of the story now. If Alex did "intervene" of his own volition, I think that he was completely out of order for doing so.
This is one of the funniest things I've ever seen in sports. Cliff's reaction is so petty yet understandable - he was definitely the victim here. At least he had something to strike back with, cringy yet hilarious as it was.
The only thing that’s “cringe” here is a person who uses the word “cringe” and bangs on about how something is the funniest thing they’ve ever seen etc.
@Al Imspartacus2 If he mumbled it how do you know he said it at all? He didn't mumble, you can hear if you listen properly. The commentators heard it which is why they where surprised the ref said he didn't.
Makes no difference, as the referee needs to hear it. The referee always repeats the colour when they hear it. Thorburn knew that, so he was being childish here. Worked well for Alex Higgins, as Thorburn let the incident get to him and lost the match.
@@sharpvidtube I agree with you... However, had Alex said "Yes Ref, he said 'Green' ." I think the Ref would have rescinded his decision: He looked almost pleadingly at Alex....but Alex claimed he didn't hear anything either. Mmm.
@@patagualianmostly7437 Quite possible that the TV microphone picked up Thorburn's voice, but Alex Higgins didn't hear it didn't hear it, the same as the referee. Those microphones can be very sensitive, and they can turn the sound up.
Because those at home heard it from the TV microphones and I doubt everyone in the audience did and only those nearest to Thorburn, which would not have included Higgins.
I remember watching this match on TV as a kid, and I remember hearing Cliff say 'Green'. I also remember my mum who was watching it with me, she laughed when Cliff told Alex he couldn't use his extension - my mum said "How bloody childish." But, to this day, I still can't understand how John Smyth didn't hear Thorburn say 'green'.
@@tilonrei We all know Higgins lied - I wasn't defending him - as great as he was at snooker, it can not be denied that he was one of the most underhanded and unstable personality's the game has had. I was just recalling a childhood memory - I should have said that I felt for Thorburn at the time and I actually preferred Thorburn as a player and a person. I apologise if my comment offended - that wasn't my intention.
I did hear him say Green but you will notice the ref never said "green ball". The ref never heard him, but should have asked Cliff to nominate the ball if he was not clear.
If John Smyth would've done that, he could have ended up being disciplined by the WPBSA for conspiracy to unduly assist a player. The only thing a referee is supposed to do, is feed back the nomination that they *heard* the player make. I think they already have hard enough of a job, and this was back when there was no such thing as a 'miss' rule - which I find to be incredibly insulting to the integrity of an honest sportsman's conduct, as well as catalyse potential corruption within the sport. I must've been out that day, because I certainly would've remembered seeing it and feeling sorry for everyone involved here (each for their own reasons). Simple human error - that's what I think this whole thing really was.
@@sh4rpyvwr324 ever been, no shut the fuck up, you need England Scotland is like a disabled inlaw, can't stand on its own 2 feet and always want an handout
Regardless of whether Alex heard it he could have at least acknowledged that it was obvious cliff played the green. Even if the ref didn’t back down he’d have still let Alex borrow his doo dar
I miss this commentator. They talk too much these days a lot on every shot to try and make it more entertaining but I misss the old days when it was more chilled. Great clip btw, I will look for it online in full.
You can't be serious? Ted Lowe had zero insight into the game and offered nothing other than just stating the obvious. Today's commentators are light years ahead.
@@tomdavies6368 It's probably not the commentator that he misses. A lot of the sounds of the match at the table are drowned out by the incessant commentary. It gives and takes. When I was learning the game it was invaluable to hear the former pros explain the positioning; now I'd prefer to think the game through myself and hear the sound at the table and only hear the old pro when there's less obvious decisions to be made. The sport needs new fans of course.
None of this would've happened if Cliff hadn't played such a terrible shot! 0:17 The ref was a disgrace here. Snooker players pride themselves on their honesty, so if a player of Cliff's standing in the game says he nominated the green, you shoud take his word for it!
2:37 - just to argue (umm wrong word but I hope you get my drift) your point that snooker players pride themselves on their honesty. Alex says "He didn't say anything. I was watching him. So I'd have heard him.") - even after the fact, when the ref wouldn't have overturned the decision - Alex [[bareface lies]]
@@BluSpykz Saying you didn't hear someone say something isn't the same as saying they didn't say something. Thorburn definitely called green but it wasn't very loud and he said one word, as in "green" only as opposed to say for example "green ball" or "I'm playing the green" and so that was far less likely to be picked up rather than a few words. There was also close to a full minute from potting the red to hitting the green and whilst Higgins probably was looking at Thorburn for some of that time, he probably wasn't for all of it. It also maybe didn't help that Thorburn has a moustache, which can cover lip movements too.
Despite the controversy and high emotions, both the referee and Thornbrun applied themselves in explemary fashion. The referee stringently applying the rule of "In any case of dispute, the referees decision is final", whilst Thornbrun waited for Higgins to play his shot without interruption before temporarily leaving the baize. Snooker is and always will be a gentlemans sport.
Following this referees repeat the nomination. In fact I even heard a referee ask for a nomination. Didn't think they were supposed to help a player avoid a foul.
Genius on the table, Alex. But as a person, he was a nasty bit of work. Of course he heard Cliff nominate!! And the ref must have been deaf not to hear it
Unbelievable. Everyone except the referee heard Cliff nominate 'green'. It's another case of technology (a clear audio recording) being deemed inadmissible. I believe that it was much the same in criminal courts years ago.
A ref should own their decision. When Cliff, minutes later, asks Alex if he heard it, the ref should have jumped in and said it doesn’t matter if Alex heard it. The alternative is players try to negotiate with each other after a ref has made a call.
Alex should have picked up and then set down the black ball to relevel the score. Higgins and sportsmanship aren't two words I see going together very well.
Cliff did nominate and hit the green. Higgins could have helped the ref out but chose not to. John Smthye was a great referee and a true gentleman. May he rest in peace.
Thorburn clearly said 'green'. What did the referee think he said?! Thorburn was clearly aiming for the green. Appalling lack of sportsmanship by Higgins, considering that Thorburn was kindly lending him his cue extension.
Absolutely 💯 right. Higgins was a great player, but not a legend, reason, the status of legend encompasses all aspects of a game, determintion, skill, creativity, and sportsmanship, something that Higgins never had, I never liked Higgins, never ever respected his opponents, too drunk sadly most of the time to be aware of his indifference.
@@michealkelliher8428 yes, it was all rather sad. Higgins was great to watch, very talented, and generated an electric atmosphere. But as you say, a poor sport who failed to respect his opponents. And, in those days anyway, there was a gentlemanly respect among most, if not all, the other players.
@@martm216 Absolutely Martin. Its how you end your journey in life, not how you start it, poor Higgins' lack of respect for his opponents was a microcosm of himself, no respect for himself , drinking and gambling. He was very unpredictable. I'm 46, but I can remember Cliff Thorburn, he always just wanted to get the job done, I always found him very dignified and respectful. I think back then, it was more gentleman like than today's game, I still like snooker, but I don't love it, like I used to, you can't make a gentleman's game sexy and snazzy, it just doesn't work. I absolutely adored snooker right up to 1990. Being Irish, every March, coinciding with my birthday, the Irish Benson & Hedges Masters was staple tv live from Goffs. Sadly, we've no tournament here now, the Irish government should have stepped in to save it, by keeping it going, as it was a much loved tournament, it was probably the third most important after the World Championship and the UK Masters, had a huge following. Make absolutely no mistake about it, 1980’s snooker was the golden age of the sport. How many watched the 1985 World Championship Final, 17? 18? million. Has any other sport been surpassed by those figures since?
@@michealkelliher8428 yes Michael, I'm 69 and I first started watching snooker in 1979 when Terry Griffiths the former postman won the world title. I remember a lot of older ladies started watching snooker around this time and commented on how gentlemanly the sport was, with the players all turned out in their suits etcetera. If a player accidentally touched the cue ball with his cue before making the shot proper and the ref didn't notice, they would always call the foul against themselves. I remember Jimmy White doing this several times. Players like Ray Reardon, John Spencer, Fred Davis, Cliff Thorburn, Denis Taylor, David Taylor, Doug Mountjoy and so on all seemed like men who had done something other in life than just play snooker. Even Steve Davis was quite interesting . . . and certainly a gentleman. The eighties were indeed the golden age of snooker. For me it has since lost a lot of its charm.
@@martm216 I absolutely 💯 agree with you Martin. I'm definitely a sentimentalist, I would have loved to have grown up in your era, the good old days, maybe I was around in former life, I'd be known as old head. To me, I'd be old school, in tournaments, players should wear the white shirt, black bow tie and waistcoat, no exceptions, it's gentlemanly, not black shirts and black ties, I find that demeans the tradition of snooker. Tony Drago start wearing his fancy shirts as far back as 1992, he initiated that poor precedent in attire.
TV mic’s are turned for the viewers at home. Sometimes when someone is not paying attention they don’t hear the person speaking even when they’re next to them.
He clearly nominated it. Smythe was an idiot, or a liar. He would or should have been paying attention to Thorburn as he cued the shot, and if he hadn't heard him, he would've seen him mouth the words *and* point his cue in the direction of the green. Shite bit of refereeing.
I remember it well. Alex should have backed Thorburn up really, regardless of wether he heard or not, and if he was 8 - 5, up something like that, I am sure he would have. Naughty Alex.
Yeah, a lot going on here. I feel Alex should've backed Thorburn even if he didn't hear him, since he ended up implying that Cliff was lying or cheating, and to the best of my knowledge Thorburn always played fairly. I think the score did come into Alex's reckoning that he wanted Cliff to argue with the referee on the off-chance it would unsettle him. It's one of those situations where 'doing nothing' is doing something. But some of the referees were pretty old school in the '80s. Even if Alex and the audience had all said they heard Thorburn nominate, I'm not sure the ref would've reversed his decision. The 'ref's decision is final' was taken to extremes. Maybe partly why Alex didn't get involved - but I think he had an eye on the score too.
@Callum Robertson Thats a very leading statement. No, I think he should have respected Cliffs professionalism to be honest, and know that if Cliff said he nominated, then he nominated. End of. Had he been 8 - 5 up, I think Alex would have. But at a cagey stage of the match, I think it played a part in him saying he didnt hear. I was a higgins fan, and not a thorburn fan, but 35 years on, I think Alex should have just said, y know what, its 7pts. Does it really matter. The game of snooker matters more.
People make Higgins out to be some kind of hero. The guy cheated here by lying about not hearing the Green being called. Headbutted people and was a general disgrace. How it ended for him was very sad indeed.
Wise up - Higgins was at the same end of the table as the ref who also didn't hear it! Thorburn behaved like a child and funnily enough, Higgins tanked him without the extension! Alex made a few mistakes like many others have, but he made the game what it is today and remains the most popular player ever.
We don't know that he heard it but quote from Alex (2:37) - "I was watching - I would've heard him. He did NOT say anything. So unless Cliff is a ventriloquist as well as a snooker player; there is a lie there.
David O'Mahony yup he was all that but also the most exciting genius of a player who inspired the young generation along with jimmy white and catapulted snooker out the boring pipe smoking cojers era. We all wanted to be Alex Higgins as young , no one wanted to be cliff thorburn or Rex Williams 😂👍
I'm in fucking NZ and I heard him nominate the Green. Higgins might not have heard him, being at the opposite end of the table, so was the referee John Smyth. Unfortunate incident, but the people in the TV commentary box might have helped out the referee in this case. Or perhaps Cliff should have spoken a bit louder when he nominated the Green. When a player nominates a colour the referee repeats it, which confirms it. The fact that John Smyth didn't confirm the nomination, suggests that he didn't hear Cliff nominate the Green.
If you watch closely he accepted from the audience that Cliff did indeed nominate the green but as soon as you could see the look of acceptance on his face Higgins said "I didn't..(inaudible)" then the ref took it at Higgins' word. (either said I didn't hear it, or I didn't hear him say anything) - Now, he goes on to talk to the ref when Cliff leaves and repeats that he heard nothing. He's lying either way and it was on Higgins'w word that he stuck to his decision to award the foul.
When Cliff came back into the arena he had a word with Alex and saw that stupid "butter wouldn't melt" look on Alex's face and knew Alex had been snide. Cliff was quite right to withdraw the offer of sharing the extension and if Alex wanted to keep on using the extension he should have thought of that before sticking his beak in.
Thorburn was still in the wrong, as when you nominate, you should make sure the referee has heard it. It wasn't a big deal anyway but Thorburn used it as an excuse. He was winning at the time and Alex Higgins beat him quite easily after this incident.
Referees fault, I’m sure someone (possibly from the audience) even confirmed to the ref that thorburn nominated the green. But the ref was just stubborn,
@@ASuwan22 You can clearly hear several members of the audience support Cliff. And the rules of snooker do actually allows the referee to ask any person in the room.
I actually didn't hear it the first time and was thinking "hey, he didn't nominate a colour?" as soon as he struck the white. Upon replaying it though, it's pretty clear that he did nominate the green, but it was a bit of a casual mumble (no doubt due to his disappointment over the previous shot). I can understand how the ref missed it, but it appears that Higgins flat out lied. Ref should have gone with the audience's affirmation that they heard Thorburn.
I think even back then the ref would pronounce 'Green ball', so Cliff should have made sure before taking the shot. Having said that, the whole decision rested on Alex accepting that Cliff had nominated his colour, if Alex had have been a bit more sporting the ref would have overturned his own ruling. I also didn't know that about giving the highest points possible for not nominating. I would have assumed that the ref would have given for the highest value ball in the cluster he was aiming for, which in this case was the blue. Even though he was right by the book on all counts, it was pretty poor handling of the situation by the ref.
I heard Cliff say green and i'm 35 years away.
LMAO
i heard him too,and im 35 years and 5 days away
I heard him and I was 100 miles away!
Higgins was actally standing near the table when Thorburn said green, so he almost certainly heard him.
he said green as he bent over to play the shot. I can understand a little noise masking his voice. That said the referee basically called Thorburn and a proportion of the crowd liars. I think that was unfortunate and Id hope the referee apologised afterwards.
The crowd heard as well as the commentators and the viewers. Disgraceful behaviour from Higgins and the ref. Utter incompetence by the ref and snidey shit from Alex!
I’m a big fan of Higgins but thorburn was always a very honest and dignified player and person
He was a coke addict!
Kevin Durham - I thought all the Canadians were quite partial to the odd line of Peruvian marching powder?! Lol. But no, you're right, it was only Kirk who had a massive problem with it..
same here
He acted like a big child. Thorburn mumbled in a low voice so neither the ref nor Higgins heard him.
@Kevin Durham Kirk got a lot of help from his fellow player John Virgo, who let him live with him in his house just south of London while he sorted himself out (I think it took about a year).
Massive respect for Thorburn.
For being a cnut?
I feel sorry for the ref. Cliff has a strong accent, and when he said "green" the referee heard "I'm not going to nominate a ball!"
Learn the rules before being Internet Smart Guy. Not a good look.
@@fdfsdfsvsfgsg4888 Ben's joking ...
@@fdfsdfsvsfgsg4888 Snooker rules : "12. Nominated Ball....... If requested by the referee, the striker must declare which ball they are on."
So why - if he hadn't heard - didn't ref ask? And why award 7. Not a good look kiddo.
@@fdfsdfsvsfgsg4888 there are rules for a reason but there is sportsmanship that does trump rules. Because rules are only to interfere when sportsmanship is unclear.
@@TheMurderBird the ref was as corrupt as a higgins...
If I was Cliff I'd keep trying to leave Alex with shots that required the extension
Best comment lol
@@paulr6881 Thanks, I'm not that good so that's how I play anyway. Bring them down to my level.
And wink at him every time.
@the thomascopgroup that wouldnt work mate. becouse then alex would stop playing to the crowd then show thorburn safety shots that he would find impossible to get out off plus how on earth did he manage to get that shot safe as that. alex was a master tactician of the game. Steve davis said alex was the greatest safety player hes ever played. Alex could get out of a snooker to then snooker you back only better. Time after time. Alex was much better than we saw? A player you didnt want to get rough with on the table or he would hammer you in every way the game is played. He just didnt win as much couse he played for the crowd and he did win alot and also got to alot of finals that he should have won. Alex is in another level to cliff
Alex retaliated with “well then you can’t have any of my cigs and booze”
😂
Or coke. Hell no on my coke.
😁🍺
Another moment of snooker history I’d heard about but never seen. Thanks .
Or saw but didn't hear if you're the ref
For those watching on black and white televisions, the green is to the right of the blue
for those with black and white televisions, he hit the green
😂😂
Gold
@@mescellaneous 🤣🤣🤣
Nobody has a b&w tv anymore
I heard him say "bream" - which is a fish I believe - odd thing to say 🐟🤔
Made me laugh 😂
Leeroy Brown 😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆
Leeroy Brown Classical Guitarist
Also a place in Gloucestershire lol
LMAO 😂
He nominates the green at 0:52 - I remember watching this match on the tele
I remember this game like it was yesterday , it was so diferent then , top players with such charisma, the grinder, cliff, against the hurracane, alex. R. I. P Alex .
r. i. in torment alex for this...
All the excitement nobody mentions who wins the match.
not rip-hopefully never rest the piece of scum that a higgins was-
@@Ytnzy250 the ref
Cliff Thorburn such a great player and nice guy!
One thing Alex Higgins most certainly will not be remembered for is his sportsmanship.
he was playing thorburn you know!
Alex Higgins did nothing wrong. Thorburn knew the ref didn't hear it, as they always say the colour out loud when they hear it. It was only a 7 point foul, made no difference but Thorburn threw the match away because of it.
Alex simply didn't hear it. He was at the other end of the table. So was John Smyth. Thorburn needed to speak up a bit louder I think.
Absolutely right. Higgins could have stepped up there but he didn’t.
@@vantheman1238 If he didnt hear it, he didnt hear it. I didnt pick it up until my second time watching
"Terribly unfortunate", The late great man of classic snooker commentary Ted Lowe.
Snooker is a gentlemens game. If Higgins says he didn't hear it and the crowd did, or if Higgins won't accept that green was nominated then he is not being fair.
Outrageous decision. Could you imagine if that was Ronnie? Seen him lose it for much less than that. Would have probably walked out and not come back.
Ronnie would of known the ref didn't hear it, as the ref always repeats the nominated colour.
Ronnie would have laid the red out.
Yes ref repeats it nowadays-perhaps stemmed from this incident. Thought Alex was a bit of an arse there, but to be fair he was probably already hammered and his ears had stopped working.
@@nuntana2 yes Alex's glasses of water were actually vodka , he was half pissed
"Now there's a little feeling come into this, which is terribly unfortunate."
Great classic 80s snooker, had some great characters even the Referees added to the spice !
Unsportsmanlike Higgins not admitting that he also heard «Green» was called.
Maybe he didn't hear green being called
He didn't only not admit it, you can hear Higgins make the point of telling the referee in the first few seconds he didn't hear it without even being asked. He could have just kept quiet and out of it while the referee decided.
@@mutinyonthekitkat It looks like the referee approached Higgins in his chair and asked if he heard Thorburn nominate and if he did not, then what else could he say?
Saying you did not hear something just means you personally did not hear it, not necessarily that it did not happen and the referee had already made his decision by the time he asked Higgins while Thorburn left the arena.
@@seanscanlon9067 If the referee asked him first ok, but I got the impression he just said it without being asked.
moron
The Grinder later admitted that he should have said "green" louder. Referees should always repeat the player's nomination, so no repeat from John Smythe should have told Thorburn that he had not heard it ( I didn't hear it the first time either).
Steve Edge - I agree Steve, I've noticed Smythe has come in for some harsh criticism by a few on here but I actually thought he was a decent referee back in the day..
I agree, Thorburn should of just laughed this off, as it was only 7 points and made no difference. He was in the wrong, as he needs to be sure the referee heard his nomination. Instead, he let it get to him and also fired up Alex Higgins, who didn't want to lose after that incident.
@@sharpvidtube Canadians arent the friendliest of people so he probably wouldnt have laughed it off. Anyway I heard him nominate and I had my volume pretty low so the ref was at fault & why was Higgins awarded 7 points. Even though it wasnt a foul the points awarded to higgins should have only been 4. Just as well the miss rule wasnt used back then or there could have been a fight at this rate.
I heard it the fist time 35 years ago and again just now
@@markgowans "Canadians arent the friendliest of people" I thought Canadians were famously friendly.
0:52 "Green."
2:34 "He didn't say it, at any time. He didn't say it at any time."
Cheat, Bad sportsmanship
What does ted lowe say about cue extension "Alex's has gone wrong" or something
Loved the look on Alex face when thorburn said your not using that ( cue extension ).....classic
Alex replied you can’t use my cocaine.
I heard him say “Green”.
So did I.
LMAO :-)
And in every match since, Thorburn was like *GGGGGREEEEENNNNNNN!!!!!!* for every nomination.
lol
"YELLOWWWWWW !!!!"
Alex said he didn't hear it because he's colourblind
I say, good one Master Bates !
:D
How could he hear it if he's colour blind? Makes no sense.
Carrot Nose be jsssss oy tink yer moyt be royt!
@@innate-videos I say, another maaasterpiece of a reply Maaaaster Bates.
This is bizarre, he CLEARLY says green. Nowadays I never hear players loudly saying which colour they're going for but here it's so clear what colour he nominated.
Imagine Thorburn play Peter Ebdon, the game would last years
They did once back in 1989 and the match lasted until 2007. During the 4th frame Cliff Thornburn had to shave no less than 36 times and Peter Ebdon went on holiday to Jamaica for 3 weeks.
KBEES MOT It would still be going on.
KBEES MOT We had Thorburn v Terry Griffiths. I promise you,, that was bad enough
norman rossall haha 😂
Tag team between Cliff Thorburn and Peter Ebdon Vrs Terry Griffiths and Willie Thorne...that would be a headbanger.
Higgins was a great player, very exciting to watch...but unfortunately not a nice person. This lack of sportsmanship is exactly how Higgins lived his life.
Vile man
@@cbing4036 Nothing to do with Higgins, ref makes the decision, Thorburn petty fucker
Higgins might have been lying when he claimed not to have heard it. The ref appeared ready to change his ruling ... but Higgins’ statement stopped any change.
bartholomew9999 Can imagine Higgins was a sneaky calculating kind of man, always weighing up what was best for him on and off the table.
sad but true
0:52/53 "green", the ref was obviously deaf.
I never knew this incident happened, thanks mjt_snooker for this upload. Great Quality.
I remember this very well. I also remember that Alex was on of the most honest players in the game. He would call fouls on himself when the ref hadn't seen and prided himself on that aspect of his game. He was further away than John Smythe and probably a few vodkas deep. Alex was many things but he was never a cheat at snooker.
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Are you sure about that Thorburn is right here?
Not sure about that - I was a massive Higgins fan back in the day, but I've changed since I've heard so many facts about his nasty behaviour.....
It's more than likely he didn't hear it but to say he was further away the Smythe is irrelevant, because people behind him in the crowd heard it.
I watched this when it was aired and distinctly remember my bemusement when the cloth eared ref said he didn't hear Cliff nominate green.I heard it loud and clear THEN,and can hear it NO PROBLEM now, even with the crappy low audio on my laptop.
I can remember watching this when it happened all them years ago everybody heard cliff say green ball but not Alex he could be a right prick when he wanted to be in his day there's a film called rack pack worth checking out if your fan of snooker from the hay days of the 80s.
I will check that out cheers!
As an Alex fan even I have to admit he could be a complete arshole off the table but whatever you do, do not take that film seriously, much of it has been invented to make it entertaining, Alex never spoke to Steve or Cliff in the way he did in the film, it put Alex in a very bad light.
@@ZEUSDAZ What was entertaining,but not condonable(is that a word?),is when Alex peed in the pot plant😂
Very clearly said green, I heard it even through the noisy, low quality, audio system on my PC....
Martyn H Thorburn was mostly at fault here, firstly for mumbling his nominated ball, secondly for not waiting for confirmation from the referee before he played the shot. If Higgins had been a gentleman and a good sport he would have said "I didn't hear your nomination, but if you say you nominated the green, I accept that" and then left it with the referee, but Higgins was neither a good sport or a gentleman, so Thorburn's last mistake was to act like a petulant child, he should have put his shoulders back and got on with the game.
jonsmith20766 In hindsight, relooking at this you make some good points. The childishness is certainly a negative in such a gentlemen’s sport.
He clearly said GREEN !!!!!
I remember once when John Williams instead of taking a colour out of the pocket to respot picked up the white from the bed of the table. He immediately realised his mistake and stood there rather embarrassed. Clearly what he had to do was reposition the cue ball as best as possible. Higgins got out of his seat and decided that it was a foul by his opponent and that he should come back to the table! Madness.
Higgins clearly cheating.
He said Cliff 'didn't say anything', not that he didn't HEAR Cliff say anything.
Since Cliff did say green, Higgins was lying and therefore cheating.
Ysgol
You stupid brainless pathetic Bellend. ... how did Higgins cheat...you idiot. ... Higgins didn't hear Thorburn say anything. ..... Higgins didn't say that Thorburn never said anything. .... you are so stupid like the rest of your pathetic family. Thank you.
@@robertosalazar6867 You're a very ignorant person aren't you. CALM DOWN. Verbally attacking and insulting someone because you don't agree with them completely destroys any valid argument you may have.
Delboy 359
F*** Off
@ Not very intelligent are you. You've proven my point. And if you're going to tell me to fuck off at least have the courage to type it in full.
Sorry ysgol but you're just being pedantic here, in conversational speech like this they mean the same thing.
i like the sets used in the 80s snooker they had flowers in front of the crowds looked cool lol
The 1980s was snooker greatest era,..great players, and characters,...and the 85 world final Davis v Taylor,....snooker gripped the nation.....great times
The standard was nowhere near as good as even the 90s. How do you mean great players?
I remember this when it happened. It was on TV very late at night. Really interesting to see it again. John Smythe was the ref.
This was not on very late at night. The incident happened earlier on in the afternoon on the live coverage. David vine comes on with it again on the late night highlights programme.
Fawlty Towers style Thorburn should have said to the ref "Do you by any chance wear a hearing aid? Would you like me to get it mended?"
No, it works perfectly fine. I'm just saving the batteries.
Is this a piece of your brain?
It's quite obvious that green was nominated. Higgins was never known for his sportsmanship, so I would not doubt he just went along with the referees decision even though he heard Thorburn say it and just wanted the 7 points. Funny how the microphone picked it up and the people in the lower rows could hear hit quite plainly, but the two people whose opinion really mattered didn't hear a thing.
@Richard Jones
A bit more than that in fact.
I didn't notice it the first time I watched this video over a year ago, but I came back again, and noticed that Alex actively denied hearing Cliff nominate the green - *even though he wasn't asked.*
This happened immediately after the audience "corrected" John Smyth...you can hear (I _think)_ Higgins seem to butt his nose in (rudely) and dispute Thorburn's word.
I don't know what Cliff said since that time, but of course we can't get Alex's side of the story now.
If Alex did "intervene" of his own volition, I think that he was completely out of order for doing so.
yes it is clear that higgins the "peoples champion" who must have heard thorburn state green, was an absolute horrible person...
He wasn't my champion I liked Jimmy White, balls to Higgins!
Cliff Thorburn is not primarily a presenter, he is an ex-snooker player and is an unknown quantity.
dominicrusho if Cliff Thorburn goes AWOL you're up slack alley, now who's it to be, me or Cliff Thorburn.
mccann Thank you very much indeed. Kiss my face!
Lovely stuff
Ye, but he's not under a cow
Cliff thorburn was a great multiple Canadian snooker champ, and a successful professional player
My brother was there and he said he heard Thornburg say Green.
This is one of the funniest things I've ever seen in sports. Cliff's reaction is so petty yet understandable - he was definitely the victim here. At least he had something to strike back with, cringy yet hilarious as it was.
The only thing that’s “cringe” here is a person who uses the word “cringe” and bangs on about how something is the funniest thing they’ve ever seen etc.
Such poor refereeing! Alex should never have accepted that foul.
but in his defence Alex was always a total chancer...
@@dharmabam I live 5 miles away from where AH grew up, have actually met him and that's putting it nicely!
I hate it when games of any sort are ruined by bad refereeing decisions that were aviodable.
@@Gazzoid What does that have to do with the ref not listening properly? Fuck all!
@Al Imspartacus2 If he mumbled it how do you know he said it at all? He didn't mumble, you can hear if you listen properly. The commentators heard it which is why they where surprised the ref said he didn't.
I heard him say it and i didn't even know what green was at 2 months old
I heard him nominate the green ball from decades away and horrible sound quality
I agree i was watching babestation at the time and heard green
I was watching babe station.....i thought he said brown or pink 😊
6:01 minutes: He did say green -- the commentators confirmed this.
Makes no difference, as the referee needs to hear it. The referee always repeats the colour when they hear it. Thorburn knew that, so he was being childish here. Worked well for Alex Higgins, as Thorburn let the incident get to him and lost the match.
@@sharpvidtube I agree with you...
However, had Alex said "Yes Ref, he said 'Green' ." I think the Ref would have rescinded his decision: He looked almost pleadingly at Alex....but Alex claimed he didn't hear anything either. Mmm.
@@patagualianmostly7437 Quite possible that the TV microphone picked up Thorburn's voice, but Alex Higgins didn't hear it didn't hear it, the same as the referee. Those microphones can be very sensitive, and they can turn the sound up.
I watched this when I was 8 and I still remember it !
I know he said green and im watching on mute
I heard him say it and I'm colorblind
This situation calls for Brian Blessed...
*GREEEEEN!!! HELLS BELLS AND BEELZEBUB!!!*
Can you imagine BB as the ref!
I’ve always wanted to see this . Thanks.
God I remeber this, 35yrs ago now, wow, they did make up after this in a later tournament interview together.
Cliff punched Alex once in a bar after he insulted his wife ..
@@opencurtin That never happened in real life, it was included in the tv drama called "The Rack Pack" for entertainment purpouses.
Everyone heard it except the ref and Alex.I wonder why.
Because those at home heard it from the TV microphones and I doubt everyone in the audience did and only those nearest to Thorburn, which would not have included Higgins.
Cliff is Canadian Class all the way.
I heard Thorburn say green Alex was wrong
I remember watching this match on TV as a kid, and I remember hearing Cliff say 'Green'. I also remember my mum who was watching it with me, she laughed when Cliff told Alex he couldn't use his extension - my mum said "How bloody childish."
But, to this day, I still can't understand how John Smyth didn't hear Thorburn say 'green'.
@@tilonrei We all know Higgins lied - I wasn't defending him - as great as he was at snooker, it can not be denied that he was one of the most underhanded and unstable personality's the game has had. I was just recalling a childhood memory - I should have said that I felt for Thorburn at the time and I actually preferred Thorburn as a player and a person. I apologise if my comment offended - that wasn't my intention.
I did hear him say Green but you will notice the ref never said "green ball". The ref never heard him, but should have asked Cliff to nominate the ball if he was not clear.
If John Smyth would've done that, he could have ended up being disciplined by the WPBSA for conspiracy to unduly assist a player.
The only thing a referee is supposed to do, is feed back the nomination that they *heard* the player make.
I think they already have hard enough of a job, and this was back when there was no such thing as a 'miss' rule - which I find to be incredibly insulting to the integrity of an honest sportsman's conduct, as well as catalyse potential corruption within the sport.
I must've been out that day, because I certainly would've remembered seeing it and feeling sorry for everyone involved here (each for their own reasons).
Simple human error - that's what I think this whole thing really was.
@@letsdiscussitoversometea8479 more like deaf ref, and drunken cheat. But hey, whatever floats your boat...
I heard him and I am in burnley🤔
I'm from Burnley (Harle Syke) but now live in Monaco and I heard it from here.
@@MonteCarloGaz I'm in Florida and I heard him both times.
UTC
Don’t know what’s worse, being in Burnley or cheating
@@sh4rpyvwr324 ever been, no shut the fuck up, you need England Scotland is like a disabled inlaw, can't stand on its own 2 feet and always want an handout
Massive respect for the reaction and before that to lend your opponent your equipment during your match. That's classy.
:50 At about the 52 second mark you can clearly hear him say, "Burnt Sienna."
Regardless of whether Alex heard it he could have at least acknowledged that it was obvious cliff played the green. Even if the ref didn’t back down he’d have still let Alex borrow his doo dar
Wow, I remember this happening at the time!
I miss this commentator. They talk too much these days a lot on every shot to try and make it more entertaining but I misss the old days when it was more chilled. Great clip btw, I will look for it online in full.
You can't be serious? Ted Lowe had zero insight into the game and offered nothing other than just stating the obvious. Today's commentators are light years ahead.
@@tomdavies6368 It's probably not the commentator that he misses. A lot of the sounds of the match at the table are drowned out by the incessant commentary. It gives and takes. When I was learning the game it was invaluable to hear the former pros explain the positioning; now I'd prefer to think the game through myself and hear the sound at the table and only hear the old pro when there's less obvious decisions to be made. The sport needs new fans of course.
None of this would've happened if Cliff hadn't played such a terrible shot! 0:17
The ref was a disgrace here. Snooker players pride themselves on their honesty, so if a player of Cliff's standing in the game says he nominated the green, you shoud take his word for it!
2:37 - just to argue (umm wrong word but I hope you get my drift) your point that snooker players pride themselves on their honesty. Alex says "He didn't say anything. I was watching him. So I'd have heard him.") - even after the fact, when the ref wouldn't have overturned the decision - Alex [[bareface lies]]
BluSpykz )j
BluSpykz ‘
@@BluSpykz Saying you didn't hear someone say something isn't the same as saying they didn't say something.
Thorburn definitely called green but it wasn't very loud and he said one word, as in "green" only as opposed to say for example "green ball" or "I'm playing the green" and so that was far less likely to be picked up rather than a few words.
There was also close to a full minute from potting the red to hitting the green and whilst Higgins probably was looking at Thorburn for some of that time, he probably wasn't for all of it. It also maybe didn't help that Thorburn has a moustache, which can cover lip movements too.
Legend has it that Higgins took him down with a giant Chester Backster and finished him off with a sumptuous beef stew.
Despite the controversy and high emotions, both the referee and Thornbrun applied themselves in explemary fashion. The referee stringently applying the rule of "In any case of dispute, the referees decision is final", whilst Thornbrun waited for Higgins to play his shot without interruption before temporarily leaving the baize. Snooker is and always will be a gentlemans sport.
boring, thorburn should've waited until hurricane higgins was at the table and smashed his cue extension repeatedly against the back of his knees.
what nonsense-the referee and higgins were corrupt liars...
Following this referees repeat the nomination. In fact I even heard a referee ask for a nomination. Didn't think they were supposed to help a player avoid a foul.
Genius on the table, Alex. But as a person, he was a nasty bit of work. Of course he heard Cliff nominate!!
And the ref must have been deaf not to hear it
I agree
Unbelievable. Everyone except the referee heard Cliff nominate 'green'.
It's another case of technology (a clear audio recording) being deemed inadmissible.
I believe that it was much the same in criminal courts years ago.
Next time take a megaphone in and shout ... GREEN
John Duncan he probably hit the blue then.😀
i never heard him say "green"...... mind you, I was watching in black n white .....
I bet they still watch black and white in yorkshire
Maybe he said "grey".
For those watching in black and white, the pink is next to the green.
@@petersothern2909 In Yorkshire, life is in black and white.
A ref should own their decision. When Cliff, minutes later, asks Alex if he heard it, the ref should have jumped in and said it doesn’t matter if Alex heard it. The alternative is players try to negotiate with each other after a ref has made a call.
Alex should have picked up and then set down the black ball to relevel the score.
Higgins and sportsmanship aren't two words I see going together very well.
Referee should have been paying attention. Then he would have heard the ball nominated... It wasn't difficult.
Cliff did nominate and hit the green. Higgins could have helped the ref out but chose not to. John Smthye was a great referee and a true gentleman. May he rest in peace.
Thorburn clearly said 'green'. What did the referee think he said?! Thorburn was clearly aiming for the green. Appalling lack of sportsmanship by Higgins, considering that Thorburn was kindly lending him his cue extension.
Absolutely 💯 right. Higgins was a great player, but not a legend, reason, the status of legend encompasses all aspects of a game, determintion, skill, creativity, and sportsmanship, something that Higgins never had, I never liked Higgins, never ever respected his opponents, too drunk sadly most of the time to be aware of his indifference.
@@michealkelliher8428 yes, it was all rather sad. Higgins was great to watch, very talented, and generated an electric atmosphere. But as you say, a poor sport who failed to respect his opponents. And, in those days anyway, there was a gentlemanly respect among most, if not all, the other players.
@@martm216 Absolutely Martin. Its how you end your journey in life, not how you start it, poor Higgins' lack of respect for his opponents was a microcosm of himself, no respect for himself , drinking and gambling. He was very unpredictable.
I'm 46, but I can remember Cliff Thorburn, he always just wanted to get the job done, I always found him very dignified and respectful. I think back then, it was more gentleman like than today's game, I still like snooker, but I don't love it, like I used to, you can't make a gentleman's game sexy and snazzy, it just doesn't work. I absolutely adored snooker right up to 1990.
Being Irish, every March, coinciding with my birthday, the Irish Benson & Hedges Masters was staple tv live from Goffs.
Sadly, we've no tournament here now, the Irish government should have stepped in to save it, by keeping it going, as it was a much loved tournament, it was probably the third most important after the World Championship and the UK Masters, had a huge following. Make absolutely no mistake about it, 1980’s snooker was the golden age of the sport.
How many watched the 1985 World Championship Final, 17? 18? million. Has any other sport been surpassed by those figures since?
@@michealkelliher8428 yes Michael, I'm 69 and I first started watching snooker in 1979 when Terry Griffiths the former postman won the world title. I remember a lot of older ladies started watching snooker around this time and commented on how gentlemanly the sport was, with the players all turned out in their suits etcetera. If a player accidentally touched the cue ball with his cue before making the shot proper and the ref didn't notice, they would always call the foul against themselves. I remember Jimmy White doing this several times. Players like Ray Reardon, John Spencer, Fred Davis, Cliff Thorburn, Denis Taylor, David Taylor, Doug Mountjoy and so on all seemed like men who had done something other in life than just play snooker. Even Steve Davis was quite interesting . . . and certainly a gentleman. The eighties were indeed the golden age of snooker. For me it has since lost a lot of its charm.
@@martm216 I absolutely 💯 agree with you Martin. I'm definitely a sentimentalist, I would have loved to have grown up in your era, the good old days, maybe I was around in former life, I'd be known as old head.
To me, I'd be old school, in tournaments, players should wear the white shirt, black bow tie and waistcoat, no exceptions, it's gentlemanly, not black shirts and black ties, I find that demeans the tradition of snooker. Tony Drago start wearing his fancy shirts as far back as 1992, he initiated that poor precedent in attire.
TV mic’s are turned for the viewers at home. Sometimes when someone is not paying attention they don’t hear the person speaking even when they’re next to them.
shit just imagine if tables were turned and this this had happened to higgins
Yes indeed, That extension would have done a disappearing act up the referee's jacksie.
He clearly nominated it. Smythe was an idiot, or a liar. He would or should have been paying attention to Thorburn as he cued the shot, and if he hadn't heard him, he would've seen him mouth the words *and* point his cue in the direction of the green. Shite bit of refereeing.
I remember it well. Alex should have backed Thorburn up really, regardless of wether he heard or not, and if he was 8 - 5, up something like that, I am sure he would have. Naughty Alex.
Yeah, a lot going on here. I feel Alex should've backed Thorburn even if he didn't hear him, since he ended up implying that Cliff was lying or cheating, and to the best of my knowledge Thorburn always played fairly.
I think the score did come into Alex's reckoning that he wanted Cliff to argue with the referee on the off-chance it would unsettle him. It's one of those situations where 'doing nothing' is doing something.
But some of the referees were pretty old school in the '80s. Even if Alex and the audience had all said they heard Thorburn nominate, I'm not sure the ref would've reversed his decision. The 'ref's decision is final' was taken to extremes. Maybe partly why Alex didn't get involved - but I think he had an eye on the score too.
@Callum Robertson Thats a very leading statement. No, I think he should have respected Cliffs professionalism to be honest, and know that if Cliff said he nominated, then he nominated. End of. Had he been 8 - 5 up, I think Alex would have. But at a cagey stage of the match, I think it played a part in him saying he didnt hear. I was a higgins fan, and not a thorburn fan, but 35 years on, I think Alex should have just said, y know what, its 7pts. Does it really matter. The game of snooker matters more.
I actually watched this live when I was 8,remember it so well and hearing him say green !
Who won the match?
kevin brookes Higgins 9-7
People make Higgins out to be some kind of hero. The guy cheated here by lying about not hearing the Green being called. Headbutted people and was a general disgrace. How it ended for him was very sad indeed.
And the biggest crowd puller ever in the game.
How do you know that he had heard it? I think you are waffling.
Wise up - Higgins was at the same end of the table as the ref who also didn't hear it! Thorburn behaved like a child and funnily enough, Higgins tanked him without the extension! Alex made a few mistakes like many others have, but he made the game what it is today and remains the most popular player ever.
We don't know that he heard it but quote from Alex (2:37) - "I was watching - I would've heard him. He did NOT say anything. So unless Cliff is a ventriloquist as well as a snooker player; there is a lie there.
David O'Mahony yup he was all that but also the most exciting genius of a player who inspired the young generation along with jimmy white and catapulted snooker out the boring pipe smoking cojers era. We all wanted to be Alex Higgins as young , no one wanted to be cliff thorburn or Rex Williams 😂👍
I'm in fucking NZ and I heard him nominate the Green. Higgins might not have heard him, being at the opposite end of the table, so was the referee John Smyth. Unfortunate incident, but the people in the TV commentary box might have helped out the referee in this case. Or perhaps Cliff should have spoken a bit louder when he nominated the Green. When a player nominates a colour the referee repeats it, which confirms it. The fact that John Smyth didn't confirm the nomination, suggests that he didn't hear Cliff nominate the Green.
cliff could be one boring bastard , but he always played an honest game .
@Kevin Durham what about rex williams
We only had a black & white TV and I heard him say "green"!
Same referee was once told in a match by Ray Reardon than he should go and get his eyes tested. To quote Basil Fawlty "Deaf, Dumb and Blind"
The TV/studio microphones picked it up, not necessarily the ref and Alex.
The audience heard it 06.02
This ended up with a fight in a car park, extensions and green balls were used in the bare knuckle brawl. 30min of headlocks and neck chops.
Who won the match ?
@@abdesslamelouarradi4648 1984 UK Championship. Higgins was 4-6 down, but went on to win 9-7.
Back when the players had character. The Hurricane, The Whirlwind, The Mincer and the Bobblelater to name a few
Smythe should have consulted with the audience - the rules do allow for this
If you watch closely he accepted from the audience that Cliff did indeed nominate the green but as soon as you could see the look of acceptance on his face Higgins said "I didn't..(inaudible)" then the ref took it at Higgins' word. (either said I didn't hear it, or I didn't hear him say anything) - Now, he goes on to talk to the ref when Cliff leaves and repeats that he heard nothing. He's lying either way and it was on Higgins'w word that he stuck to his decision to award the foul.
Tom Traubert j
When Cliff came back into the arena he had a word with Alex and saw that stupid "butter wouldn't melt" look on Alex's face and knew Alex had been snide. Cliff was quite right to withdraw the offer of sharing the extension and if Alex wanted to keep on using the extension he should have thought of that before sticking his beak in.
yea green ball..
back then you could smoke and drink at you chair and go to the toilet for coke breaks too Alex!!
Best times
At 2:35 Higgins tells the ref "he didn't say green" - and then "I was watching him" - what a POS.
Really...what an ass
Thorburn was still in the wrong, as when you nominate, you should make sure the referee has heard it. It wasn't a big deal anyway but Thorburn used it as an excuse. He was winning at the time and Alex Higgins beat him quite easily after this incident.
@@sharpvidtube Alex Higgins was a childish asshole, and a fucking liar, of course he heard him.
sanny terry Can you actually prove definitively than he didn’t hear him?
@@brianhayes1958 I said he heard him, you can tell liars like him by their actions.
Referees fault,
I’m sure someone (possibly from the audience) even confirmed to the ref that thorburn nominated the green. But the ref was just stubborn,
The referee cant say ok, just because someone in the audience said they heard it
@@ASuwan22 You can clearly hear several members of the audience support Cliff. And the rules of snooker do actually allows the referee to ask any person in the room.
I actually didn't hear it the first time and was thinking "hey, he didn't nominate a colour?" as soon as he struck the white. Upon replaying it though, it's pretty clear that he did nominate the green, but it was a bit of a casual mumble (no doubt due to his disappointment over the previous shot). I can understand how the ref missed it, but it appears that Higgins flat out lied. Ref should have gone with the audience's affirmation that they heard Thorburn.
same here , only on replay did i hear it .
My Dad was Cliff’s friend and Cliff talked about this quite often about how bias the ref was. 🇨🇦🇨🇦
I remember watching the match live on the BBC
right now I'm watching Murphy versus Luo on BBC two the ref is a woman
I think even back then the ref would pronounce 'Green ball', so Cliff should have made sure before taking the shot. Having said that, the whole decision rested on Alex accepting that Cliff had nominated his colour, if Alex had have been a bit more sporting the ref would have overturned his own ruling. I also didn't know that about giving the highest points possible for not nominating. I would have assumed that the ref would have given for the highest value ball in the cluster he was aiming for, which in this case was the blue. Even though he was right by the book on all counts, it was pretty poor handling of the situation by the ref.
Shows you what Alex was really like.
notice how the blue ball has changed colour over the years
There used to be a purple and an orange ball in the snooker set - that ball does look more purple.