a 256gb 2230 nvme frove write speed is limited to about 950MB/s because it only has a single nand module. A 512GB or 1TB drive writes at about 1750Mb/s and have dual modules that can be written to in parallel. A higher capacity drive nvme would perform much better
I've been using a 256gb WD SN530 in a sintech adapter for a few months now, having filled and refilled it multiple times, both over USB and the Sony CFEb reader. I have been super happy with it, and had no issues. I actually drew exactly the opposite conclusion as Matt in terms of reliability. The workload of recording and offloading digital video and photos is fairly light compared to most SSD tasks, which are more random in their nature, and SSD reliability from a company like western digital is well established at this point, much moreso than most NVMe card makers. If the adapter reliability itself is a concern, then just get two adapters. Our just take the SSD out of the adapter, stick it into any m.2 slot, and it will still be perfectly readable. You certainly can't do that with typical CFE b cards. And the price difference is just enormous. My while 256gb SSD and adapter together were $60. A similar CFE b card of that speed and capacity would cost several times more, and have no guarantee of being a reliable.
Yea. I have also been using the sintech adapter with a 1TB Kioxa BG4 SSD. I have tested it againts my Delkin 256GB card with my Z7 II shooting high extended mode full speed until it slows down. I managed to get 63 pics on the Delkin and 91 on the DIY card.
Just re-tested the experiment. Got 54 with the Delkin one and 69 on the DIY card. My conclusion is that the DIY is slightly faster with the write and read speed.
Hi Jomey, did you have to format the SSD in a certain format to make it work? I've got the WD SN520 and the Samsung 991a and neither of the SSD's work in the sintech or the topcine adaptors
My experience with this case and the Kioxia 512GB, which I got from ebay shows the same speeds (good enough for me) but for 1/3 the cost of an equivalent Prograde card! For me, it is an excellent backup option.
I personally am not too concerned about the security of this adapter: CFast Express is just PCI-E / NVME. In other words: this adapter is a mechanical adapter, not a electronic one! It doesn’t have it’s own logic! Toshiba got rebranded as Kioxia! They produce some of the greatest enterprise SSD’s - they are everything but no name. Thing is: you can’t use a SSD with a high power consumption & camera manufacturers won’t test this combinations… But: cameras using CFast express will probably have Dual card slots anyway! Also: most people will save way more than 70$. How many cards does a photographer need? I have like 5 256gb cards in use - times too!
I've updated my firmware but am still running XQD on the D850, buffering is rarely an issue in the New England woods. I didn't realize they were making M.2 'drives' that small in size.
He put the heatsink pad on the wrong side of the nvme card. The pad goes on the chip side of the drive. I am not sure how much it would change the results.
a Sandisk 256Gb cfexpress goes for 330€ here, so I think the saving is way bigger (and I'm going for that). I worked with a D750 before, and the price difference between SD-cards and XQD/CFExpress doesn't reflect my type of work, I don't need super fast cards, I need size
It depends the spécifications of the ssd. I have bought two of 512 go and with raw high efficiency star i noticed 91 stils until having writing problems. Each card cost me 130€ with adapter. You have to choose the right ssd card to put in, and there are lots very different. I use this kind of montage in tht second slot for my back up in a first time for testing . I didn’t forget to enable the function cut when overheatind from firmware 2.0 for safety
@@mattgranger Yes they were backed up. It just happened twice that my Z6 suddenly couldn't recognize the card. Fixed by simply re-inserting. Nothing was lost except a few shots that could have been taken during re-inserting the card. And now I don't dare to use it
For those of you who wondered why very few people have talked about this thing, indeed CFe is not a direct M.2 remapping, or the ‘mechanical conversion’ as some may claim. As per technical specification, the CFe has a different config resistor requirement as compared to M.2. But since both technology inherently used pcie channels and specification, they are mutually compatible on a fundamental level, although there may be some thermal/performance glitches here and there. There are some projects that really DIY CFe cards using custom pcb, and the performance indeed excels any cards on the market.
What you really measured was how long it took to fill the Nikon's internal buffer while the buffer was simultaneously writing to the card. The slow write speed was why you had that sudden stop on the DIY example. The buffer filled while the card was still writing the first image out to the card. The real test should be how long it takes to go from shooting to the buffer really being done writing. At a minimum, see how long it takes to shoot a fixed number of shots larger than that buffer (say 100 shots).
@@mattgranger I don't know if they updated their instructions after your video but you need to apply thermal paste on the opposite side before putting the cover.
I just ordered the 1TB Corsair MP600 MINI PCIe 4.0 with read write speeds of 4800 MB/s. Here I hope it will perform better than my 2TB CF-EXPRESS Angelbird as they are Gen 3.0, anything else would surprise me.
I bought the same things as you but unfortunately I have problems with the shutter button to make videos with the GH6. Often it records not when I press the shutter button, but when I take my finger off it. So register late. Anyone have this problem? Thank you
Cool memory card D.I.Y. CDF Express Type B Card, it look fun assembling the card and I think it's still good for shooters that take a single shot a time. The comparison is really good and show the speed of each card.
Question Matt, I have an X-T3, currently using Sandisk 150MBP/s write speed, my buffer is full around 40 images into a burst and it takes quite a while to save them if RAW. Would switching to a high write speed actually improve the buffer size and/or the save time? Not really sure what else is available yet or how fast SD cards go with write speed, other than the other Sandisks at 170MBP/s. Input would be appreciated!
Don't just look at the MB/s rating, you need to Look out for UHS-II type cards. They have a second row of gold contacts on the back of the card. You can get cards like the SanDisk Extreme Pro and Lexar Professional that are rated at 300MB/s. Both of those cards should empty the buffer significantly more quickly than a card rated at 150MB/s. If it is UHS-I rated then it is probably running even slower than the rated speed on the card. I know that the X-T2 had 2 slots and only one was UHS-II. I don't know about the X-T3. They may both be UHS-II or not, you should check the manual. Obviously using the right card in the right slot will give best results
Thank you for the excellent explanation, I'll double check which slot is rated for what and buy accordingly, it's definitely very slow to be ready to shoot again so maybe they are UHS-I
@@northernrider780 Welcome. The X-t series has supported UHS-II since the x-t1. I vaguely think I remember hearing that the x-t3 has two UHS-II slots but you really need to check. I may be wrong about that.
@@northernrider780 Don't stress too much about it. Upgrade the cards as time and money allows and you will see a performance improvement in some situations like when shooting bursts. You will not really see much if any improvement taking single photographs though. The cameras buffer hides the relative card performance anyway, you only notice when you fill the buffer up completely. Of course you will notice when you copy files off the camera to your computer if you just sit there and watch it. You do not need to treat upgrading the cards as Urgent unless you are an avid sports photog and mostly take bursts of photographs or similar.
my only disappointment with the cf express cards is that their operating/storage temperature range is quite a bit worse than the old cf cards. I imagine its gotta do something with the fact that they are faster and get hotter, so they would create condensation vs the old cards.
I created my cheap CF express type B card with 1TB and maximal read / write 4800MB/s. The R5C writes well on it, and I can view it and play the Videos in the camera. My problem is, that the SanDisc PRO CF-EXPRESS Type B reader, brings a hardware Error, and I don't know if it only supports the nvme speed up to GEN3 and my drive is GEN4. Then the R5C connected to the PC won't show me the RAWfiles while I can access in this way only to the fotos and this quite slow, so I have a fast card, but no chance to transfer the RAW videos to my PC. Now, I ordered a new reader with 2x2 lanes in the hope that it can maybe read my homemade card...
Just saw this video. FYI NVMe SSD uses 1 PCIe lane vs CF Express uses 2 lanes. Its why you got the result you got with the SSD/CF Express. Reliability depends on MEM manufaturer. that is used.
@@jpdj2715 ah so. In that case, if the adapter was 2lanes then the speed/buffer should not be that different no? Only the camera i/o controller affects the read/write buffer. Unless the mechanical adapter only utilises 1 lane.
Have you tried the Delkin BLACK cards yet? I got two 150 GB cards of that type, and they seem to be pretty great. I filmed a 12-minute fireworks show in 4K 60 RAW on my Z9, and it filled the whole card without any issue.
The one thing you have to keep in mind is that some SSDs that are intended for internal PC use are not designed to be used in these types of enclosures where there basically is no airflow. Even a laptop generally has airflow to allow these cards to cool, and some of the more expensive cards have ways to help them stay cooler while doing heaving reading/writing operation (built into the card's controller in some cases). If you value space over speed, then this can be a good option especially since it will come in around 1/3 of the price (although possibly a bit more risky for a pro shooting because if you for some reason lose files due to card failure, that's a problem). But for those that need speed, I still feel you're better off buying a pre-built name-brand CFE card that's certified to be used with your camera (such as Sandisk, ProGrade and/or Delkin, among others). For any paid work, I would be leary of using a "home-made" memory card. Also it's not like you buy memory cards every year or all that often. Even many pros I know who shoot maybe replace their carsd every few years (3-5 years) depending on use, and for those people, they generally consider them to just be another cost of doing business, and it's built into their pricing. My personal experience with adapters in general (whether it's for SD cards, this type of device -- as I've had some for computers -- and other adapters, is that they have a higher failure rate than just buying a pre-made factory made unit, in this case like a pre-made CFE from Sony, Sandisk, etc. I've run into the same problem a few times trying to make a DIY external SSD with a 1TB Samsung drive and an enclosure. Ended up not really being any cheaper than just buying an external 1TB SSD from Samsung, and the enclosure failed after about 1 year anyway. This is not the only time I've run into such issues, but I've had enough personally that I don't recommend adapters of any sort unless you absolutely are pinching pennies or as a temporary (short term) solution it may be OK.
The MakerFabs page doesn't specify whether the PCIExpress bridge in the adapter card is PCIe Gen3 or Gen4. If it's Gen 4 that could add some extra bandwidth. Maybe enough to take advantage of the new Micron 2450 and 2400 SSDs which will be available in 2230 form factor. The 2400 in 2TB capacity (!!!) offers write speeds of 4000MB/s as compared with the 1400MB/s of the tested Toshiba card. That *could* possibly offer 2.5x the write speed. It's also a Micron product so reliability is likely to be stellar, and as commented elsewhere, this is for a write intensive SSD not a flash card which normally has a lower duty cycle.
CF Express only supports Gen 3, so having an internal Gen 4 interface won't make a difference since it's the flash memory and flash controller speed that's the limiting factor.
Agree that I'd never trust my pics on this option. Was thinking might rig one up for saving my settings and keeping in camera bag but now thinking a cheap, slow, small card will be better off for that
The only positive I could think of for that , would be if your teaching or learning how to use (said Camera) and are not concerned on losing the photos.
a 256gb 2230 nvme frove write speed is limited to about 950MB/s because it only has a single nand module. A 512GB or 1TB drive writes at about 1750Mb/s and have dual modules that can be written to in parallel. A higher capacity drive nvme would perform much better
Thank you brad, that is a great advice
I can confirm this, tested on an xh2 with the 512gb kioxia bg5. Getting ~110 uncompressed raw files at 15fps, clearing in under 10 seconds
I've been using a 256gb WD SN530 in a sintech adapter for a few months now, having filled and refilled it multiple times, both over USB and the Sony CFEb reader. I have been super happy with it, and had no issues. I actually drew exactly the opposite conclusion as Matt in terms of reliability. The workload of recording and offloading digital video and photos is fairly light compared to most SSD tasks, which are more random in their nature, and SSD reliability from a company like western digital is well established at this point, much moreso than most NVMe card makers. If the adapter reliability itself is a concern, then just get two adapters. Our just take the SSD out of the adapter, stick it into any m.2 slot, and it will still be perfectly readable. You certainly can't do that with typical CFE b cards.
And the price difference is just enormous. My while 256gb SSD and adapter together were $60. A similar CFE b card of that speed and capacity would cost several times more, and have no guarantee of being a reliable.
Yea. I have also been using the sintech adapter with a 1TB Kioxa BG4 SSD. I have tested it againts my Delkin 256GB card with my Z7 II shooting high extended mode full speed until it slows down. I managed to get 63 pics on the Delkin and 91 on the DIY card.
Just re-tested the experiment. Got 54 with the Delkin one and 69 on the DIY card. My conclusion is that the DIY is slightly faster with the write and read speed.
Glad it works for you 👍🏼
Hi Jomey, did you have to format the SSD in a certain format to make it work? I've got the WD SN520 and the Samsung 991a and neither of the SSD's work in the sintech or the topcine adaptors
@@ChuckleChuckleVisionyes you need to format on the computer first
My experience with this case and the Kioxia 512GB, which I got from ebay shows the same speeds (good enough for me) but for 1/3 the cost of an equivalent Prograde card! For me, it is an excellent backup option.
I personally am not too concerned about the security of this adapter: CFast Express is just PCI-E / NVME. In other words: this adapter is a mechanical adapter, not a electronic one! It doesn’t have it’s own logic!
Toshiba got rebranded as Kioxia! They produce some of the greatest enterprise SSD’s - they are everything but no name.
Thing is: you can’t use a SSD with a high power consumption & camera manufacturers won’t test this combinations…
But: cameras using CFast express will probably have Dual card slots anyway!
Also: most people will save way more than 70$. How many cards does a photographer need? I have like 5 256gb cards in use - times too!
Good points there.
I feel like you've expressed how I am looking at these cards.
I've updated my firmware but am still running XQD on the D850, buffering is rarely an issue in the New England woods. I didn't realize they were making M.2 'drives' that small in size.
He put the heatsink pad on the wrong side of the nvme card. The pad goes on the chip side of the drive. I am not sure how much it would change the results.
a Sandisk 256Gb cfexpress goes for 330€ here, so I think the saving is way bigger (and I'm going for that). I worked with a D750 before, and the price difference between SD-cards and XQD/CFExpress doesn't reflect my type of work, I don't need super fast cards, I need size
What kinds of items are you shooting?
@@WarriorsPhoto concerts, people, no video
@@perforations6234 That sounds like fun. (:
It depends the spécifications of the ssd. I have bought two of 512 go and with raw high efficiency star i noticed 91 stils until having writing problems. Each card cost me 130€ with adapter. You have to choose the right ssd card to put in, and there are lots very different.
I use this kind of montage in tht second slot for my back up in a first time for testing . I didn’t forget to enable the function cut when overheatind from firmware 2.0 for safety
So how is the DIY external enclosure fot the 4port card coming along?
My DIY CFe Type B card literally starts malfunctioning yesterday after I watched your video🤣Now I see the point you make for conclusion
Sorry to hear that! Hope your data was backed up.
@@mattgranger Yes they were backed up. It just happened twice that my Z6 suddenly couldn't recognize the card. Fixed by simply re-inserting. Nothing was lost except a few shots that could have been taken during re-inserting the card. And now I don't dare to use it
Link de compra? Gracias.
For those of you who wondered why very few people have talked about this thing, indeed CFe is not a direct M.2 remapping, or the ‘mechanical conversion’ as some may claim. As per technical specification, the CFe has a different config resistor requirement as compared to M.2. But since both technology inherently used pcie channels and specification, they are mutually compatible on a fundamental level, although there may be some thermal/performance glitches here and there. There are some projects that really DIY CFe cards using custom pcb, and the performance indeed excels any cards on the market.
What you really measured was how long it took to fill the Nikon's internal buffer while the buffer was simultaneously writing to the card. The slow write speed was why you had that sudden stop on the DIY example. The buffer filled while the card was still writing the first image out to the card.
The real test should be how long it takes to go from shooting to the buffer really being done writing. At a minimum, see how long it takes to shoot a fixed number of shots larger than that buffer (say 100 shots).
That is a thermal pad, not a heatsink. You also installed it on the wrong side. The case of the CF card itself is the heatsink.
That's what I thought too - but I followed their instructions - www.makerfabs.com/cfexpress-type-b-to-ssd-adapter-converter.html
@@mattgranger I don't know if they updated their instructions after your video but you need to apply thermal paste on the opposite side before putting the cover.
This is cool, thanks Matt.
Thanks for the test
I just ordered the 1TB Corsair MP600 MINI PCIe 4.0 with read write speeds of 4800 MB/s. Here I hope it will perform better than my 2TB CF-EXPRESS Angelbird as they are Gen 3.0, anything else would surprise me.
Thinking about doing the same. How did it work? And what adapter did you go with?
Can you test DIY with Fuji XH2S record Prores Internal?
I bought the same things as you but unfortunately I have problems with the shutter button to make videos with the GH6. Often it records not when I press the shutter button, but when I take my finger off it. So register late. Anyone have this problem? Thank you
Cool memory card D.I.Y. CDF Express Type B Card, it look fun assembling the card and I think it's still good for shooters that take a single shot a time. The comparison is really good and show the speed of each card.
Hi, interesting video, thanks for sharing. I have the Lumix GH6, can you tell me which brand SSD 2030 is compatible with the GH6? Thank you.
Question Matt, I have an X-T3, currently using Sandisk 150MBP/s write speed, my buffer is full around 40 images into a burst and it takes quite a while to save them if RAW.
Would switching to a high write speed actually improve the buffer size and/or the save time?
Not really sure what else is available yet or how fast SD cards go with write speed, other than the other Sandisks at 170MBP/s.
Input would be appreciated!
Don't just look at the MB/s rating, you need to Look out for UHS-II type cards. They have a second row of gold contacts on the back of the card. You can get cards like the SanDisk Extreme Pro and Lexar Professional that are rated at 300MB/s.
Both of those cards should empty the buffer significantly more quickly than a card rated at 150MB/s. If it is UHS-I rated then it is probably running even slower than the rated speed on the card.
I know that the X-T2 had 2 slots and only one was UHS-II. I don't know about the X-T3. They may both be UHS-II or not, you should check the manual. Obviously using the right card in the right slot will give best results
Thank you for the excellent explanation, I'll double check which slot is rated for what and buy accordingly, it's definitely very slow to be ready to shoot again so maybe they are UHS-I
@@northernrider780 Welcome. The X-t series has supported UHS-II since the x-t1. I vaguely think I remember hearing that the x-t3 has two UHS-II slots but you really need to check. I may be wrong about that.
@@bradmorri so upon checking, it does UHS-II / V90 cards, after checking again my cards are UHS-I / V30, guessing they are rather low performance.
@@northernrider780 Don't stress too much about it. Upgrade the cards as time and money allows and you will see a performance improvement in some situations like when shooting bursts.
You will not really see much if any improvement taking single photographs though. The cameras buffer hides the relative card performance anyway, you only notice when you fill the buffer up completely. Of course you will notice when you copy files off the camera to your computer if you just sit there and watch it.
You do not need to treat upgrading the cards as Urgent unless you are an avid sports photog and mostly take bursts of photographs or similar.
my only disappointment with the cf express cards is that their operating/storage temperature range is quite a bit worse than the old cf cards. I imagine its gotta do something with the fact that they are faster and get hotter, so they would create condensation vs the old cards.
I created my cheap CF express type B card with 1TB and maximal read / write 4800MB/s. The R5C writes well on it, and I can view it and play the Videos in the camera. My problem is, that the SanDisc PRO CF-EXPRESS Type B reader, brings a hardware Error, and I don't know if it only supports the nvme speed up to GEN3 and my drive is GEN4. Then the R5C connected to the PC won't show me the RAWfiles while I can access in this way only to the fotos and this quite slow, so I have a fast card, but no chance to transfer the RAW videos to my PC. Now, I ordered a new reader with 2x2 lanes in the hope that it can maybe read my homemade card...
Did it work? Which ssd did you use? I wanna do mt homemade card also!
Just saw this video. FYI NVMe SSD uses 1 PCIe lane vs CF Express uses 2 lanes. Its why you got the result you got with the SSD/CF Express. Reliability depends on MEM manufaturer. that is used.
FYI the card he uses for testing is PCI-e Gen3 x4 NVMe so 4 PCI-E lanes.
@@alxbengosu yes, 4 vs 8
@@efsu8374 4 vs 8 what?
Thank you for this. The controller is probably the bottleneck, not the nvme
the adapter is passive and has no controller. CFexpress is native PCIe and the adapter only re-routes the CFexpress PCIe lanes to the NVME layout.
@@jpdj2715 ah so. In that case, if the adapter was 2lanes then the speed/buffer should not be that different no? Only the camera i/o controller affects the read/write buffer. Unless the mechanical adapter only utilises 1 lane.
Have you tried the Delkin BLACK cards yet?
I got two 150 GB cards of that type, and they seem to be pretty great. I filmed a 12-minute fireworks show in 4K 60 RAW on my Z9, and it filled the whole card without any issue.
Yes I’ve tested the black cards.
4K 60 raw? Are you sure?
The one thing you have to keep in mind is that some SSDs that are intended for internal PC use are not designed to be used in these types of enclosures where there basically is no airflow. Even a laptop generally has airflow to allow these cards to cool, and some of the more expensive cards have ways to help them stay cooler while doing heaving reading/writing operation (built into the card's controller in some cases). If you value space over speed, then this can be a good option especially since it will come in around 1/3 of the price (although possibly a bit more risky for a pro shooting because if you for some reason lose files due to card failure, that's a problem). But for those that need speed, I still feel you're better off buying a pre-built name-brand CFE card that's certified to be used with your camera (such as Sandisk, ProGrade and/or Delkin, among others). For any paid work, I would be leary of using a "home-made" memory card. Also it's not like you buy memory cards every year or all that often. Even many pros I know who shoot maybe replace their carsd every few years (3-5 years) depending on use, and for those people, they generally consider them to just be another cost of doing business, and it's built into their pricing.
My personal experience with adapters in general (whether it's for SD cards, this type of device -- as I've had some for computers -- and other adapters, is that they have a higher failure rate than just buying a pre-made factory made unit, in this case like a pre-made CFE from Sony, Sandisk, etc. I've run into the same problem a few times trying to make a DIY external SSD with a 1TB Samsung drive and an enclosure. Ended up not really being any cheaper than just buying an external 1TB SSD from Samsung, and the enclosure failed after about 1 year anyway. This is not the only time I've run into such issues, but I've had enough personally that I don't recommend adapters of any sort unless you absolutely are pinching pennies or as a temporary (short term) solution it may be OK.
Them Crickets... hahahha Thanks Matt.. There's always a place to try to save money Memory isn't where i would start.
Why...because the price they charge is extortion
The MakerFabs page doesn't specify whether the PCIExpress bridge in the adapter card is PCIe Gen3 or Gen4. If it's Gen 4 that could add some extra bandwidth. Maybe enough to take advantage of the new Micron 2450 and 2400 SSDs which will be available in 2230 form factor.
The 2400 in 2TB capacity (!!!) offers write speeds of 4000MB/s as compared with the 1400MB/s of the tested Toshiba card. That *could* possibly offer 2.5x the write speed. It's also a Micron product so reliability is likely to be stellar, and as commented elsewhere, this is for a write intensive SSD not a flash card which normally has a lower duty cycle.
CF Express only supports Gen 3, so having an internal Gen 4 interface won't make a difference since it's the flash memory and flash controller speed that's the limiting factor.
I don't think any camera in the world supports pcie gen 4
You probably need a faster nvme on it.
I think you stick the heat stick on the wrong side.
Agree that I'd never trust my pics on this option. Was thinking might rig one up for saving my settings and keeping in camera bag but now thinking a cheap, slow, small card will be better off for that
The only positive I could think of for that , would be if your teaching or learning how to use (said Camera) and are not concerned on losing the photos.
Finnish subtitle?
thx
It's like buying a fast car and using temporary spares for tires.
Thermopad need to replace to nand,controller and ram.You make wrong.
You are right, cutting corners on glass and cards is not the way to go.
solid reasoning.
Thomas Timothy Harris James Walker Larry
So the moral of the story is, don’t waste your money or risk damaging you camera.