Hi Pete. I still have my little square bought new in 1965. Not a diemaker square, as the "filing draft" method of die making was already pretty well obsolete. In the 60's, steels were designed like puzzle pieces to allow access for grinding draft. Then in the 70s when wedm, came into being, die steels devolved back to primarily solid, and draft was cut with the wire and on most dies, standards eliminated the land area. Incidently, wedm reduced die cost by 30-40 percent, and slashed lead times. This method also, required much less skill on the part of the diemaker. I also have a proclivity for luftkin and as I put together my tools, I obtained them when I could. My indicators of choice are Federal. Tools were very expensive back then as opposed to now. Lots of shops would pay for your purchase and then deducted an amount out of your check to repay them. You made is many of your own tools as you could. Fowler offered an alternative to brand name stuff and quite often machinists went that route as they were not making the money tool and diemakers were. Gem indicators were more economical than starrett for example. A jobshop diemaker supplied about 95 percent of his tools while most captive toolmakers could count on much more tools to be provided. Not sure anyone will even read this, but maybe someone will find it interesting. Tc Mike
Mister Pete. You are a Nation Treasure. All your videos should be saved in the National Archives. How can you know so much about machining? And the way you present your material, clear and concise. And I love when you go off topic. Always entertaining and usually useful. There's no one like you. God bless.
My father was a tool and die maker who graduated college in 1932. I have an assortment of tools that I am still trying to find the use for and this video answered several of my questions. I have several offset blades as you showed on the Lufkin. I also have a couple of the angle indicating squares, again, I had no idea how they worked until now. Thanks Mr. Pete for another great and informative shop video.
Wonderful presentation. It inspired me to prowl the toolbox of an old toolmaker friend of mine who had in his collection many of the squares you demonstrated. Here's few recollections. Charles Tutus served his toolmaker apprenticeship in the late '30's. He worked his trade in the Seattle Tacoma area until WWII. He tried to enlist after Pearl Harbor but his was a trade necessary for the war effort. Instead, he was directed to the Naval shipyard in Bremerton. Being skilled with fine mechanism, he found himself in the director shop of the Navy yard where I started my machinist apprenticeship in 1961. Gun directors for the big Naval rifles of the day were mechanical. They were filled with gears, linkage, and other mechanism that integrated ship's course and speed, ship's motion, target course and speed, range, windage, ballistic factors (projectile, propellant, etc,) Coriolis effect, barometric pressure and so on enabling 30 yard first round CEP at 15 miles. This required many specialized tools to reach the zillion points of adjustment within the dirsctor. This is where Chuck became an irreplaceable expert, ensuring the big guns shot straight. After the war, the Navy moved on to missiles and the technology changed accordingly as did the treasures Chuck added to his toolbox. Over the years Chuck was promoted from post to post and by the time he retired he'd advanced to become the head of Combat Systems, a very senior position in the Shipyard civilian heirarchy. He was my neighbor for many years. Since he was a fellow who never lost his interest in making things and still retained his skills, he was a regular at my home shop and had the run of it even when I wasn't home. Conversion flowed as we worked together teaching each other our tricks and methods. We rebuilt his rusty old boat trailer incorporating improvements for launching and retrieving, welded stainless seal journals on this axles and dozens of other projects. After he retired and got older he'd ask me to muscle the lathe chuck or the mill vise for his work the next day. Chuck's toolbox and his collection of special tools fascinated me. He had stories for each one linked to people he worked with back in the day. We spent many an evening in his garage poring over his treasures until his wife dragged him in for dinner or the telephone. Eventually, age caught up with Chuck and he passed in 1995. His family passed on to me Chuck's toolbox, an heirloom if ever there was one. I'm of an age now when I have to think where my treasures go when my turn comes. I've written a short biography of Charles B Titus. This, together with a few photos, momentos from his life long membership with the Elks and the yacht club, and a provenance for his toolbox has historical value. In my will, I've instructed my executor to deliver Chuck's relics to the local historical society where they rotate collections from old county residents into their exhibits. Great guy, Chuck. He deserves remembering. Such remembrances are stimulated when old farts ponder over precision tools of yore.
I actually have one of those B&S no 554A (square with bevel blade). It's a beautiful tool. Was really neat being able to read that short blurb about it in the catalog.
Mr Pete, we certainly appreciate the time and effort that you invest in your channel. Stopping to document still photos of a project is time consuming enough, but video and the associated lighting, set-ups, run-throughs, and editing is a time consuming endeavor. On behalf of your "students" - Thank You !!
Thank you very much. And I love the fact that you realize all of the little details involved in making a video. Lots of time for the set ups unloading. Keep watching
Wonderful, I recently obtained a Starrett Die Makers square, wondered what that adjusting screw was for, this was great talking about Lufkin, I have some Lufkin tools but did not realize how good they were.....thanks Mr. Pete.....Paul
I always admired the line drawings in the older catalogs. Very enjoyable to look at. They were widely used in old textbooks as well. Many thanks, my friend.
I enjoyed this video, as I am a woodworker and frequent user of my #14 Starrett. Actually, I'm on my second one, as the first one got buried in sawdust and then swept up and discarded with same (I can only surmise). After a thorough search (and a few choice words) I immediately ordered another, as I knew I couldn't do good work without one. Now I keep a careful eye on my little gem!
Mr. Pete, I found one of the Starrett squares in the back of my father's toolbox. It has the blade with the angled ends and the two adjusting knobs. I always wondered just what it was used for. He was a turret lathe operator for GE for 20 years. I don't know where he would have used it. At least now I know what it was for. Thanks!
mrpete222, I am amazed at how much I enjoyed this video. Truly and education for me.I am kind of a frustrated former wanna be machinist. I wanted to go to the local Vocational technical high school. It was denied me by my parents due to the advice of a neighboring farmer. It really fascinated my when I was young. Good Job. :-)
i just picked up a Union wooden machinist box filled with tools that belonged to a gentleman who was a tool and die maker at a newspaper plant. the newest chart is from 1982,so i assume he retired close to it. it was nice to get the history from his son and daughter in law,and she sold it to me for 45 dollars... there is a video on my channel showing the unboxing and its contents. if that box could talk,imagine the stories it could tell,i dont think i have any of those precision squares tho
I spent my working career in the plumbing industry and used wooden 6 foot folding rules for the entire time. I still carry one in the pocket of my jeans after 7 years of retirement. The Lufkin rules were the best ones I've ever had. They were nearly unbreakable and outlasted every other brand, so don't worry they still kept their quality in their products.
I live in the Detroit area and am very pleased to know how many manufacturers of precision metalworking tools were in Michigan. I have a small collection of Lufkin vintage precision tools including some rules, micrometers and a complete combination square set. I'm going to figure out where the Lufkin plant was in Saginaw so I can at least visit where all of these beautiful tools were made.
I enjoy the detail you go into. I have a 1941 brown & sharpe and a #7 Lufkin also. My B&S is also from La Ca. I have spent hours going over them, between yours and adoms vidios. Have been praying for your brother and family.
Thanks for this video. I have a couple of these, and found this video quite enjoyable. It's surprising how valuable some of these little squares are as collectibles. I picked au a Starrett 457 for a few dollars a while back just because I thought it was a neat. Turns out they bring north of 40 to 50 clams on flebay all he time.
Interesting mr. Pete....I live just outside of Saginaw Michigan where the Lufkin mfg. was. (I believe they moved late 60s to North Carolina, merged with Cooper tools ) My aunts and uncles used to work there. I also have several Lufkin tools from that era of my grandfather's collection....it's good to see that stuff still being used today.
Thank you, I remember a salesman coming into the high school about 1970. He told me Lufkin Percision tools or no longer available. He offered meseveral tools and said they were clearing out the lufkin stock
Excellent video mrpete. Just keep talking and draw it out as much as you like. I can put up with it all day long. Thanks for sharing. regards from the UK
thank you for sharing this video. I got alot of my Grandfathers old tools and he was a tool and die maker. I know what alot of what I got was but there was always small odds and ends that i didn't know went with what. I've got several of these types of squares and now I know what the Z shaped things you say you never use at 11:37 in the tool box go with.
Thank you for the informative video. I just found a Lufkin 138 in my dad's tools and this was perfect. It only has two blades but it is in great condition. Can't wait to put it to use. You definitely earned a new subscriber today.
The prices that appear in many of these old catalogs were often above actual retail or wholesale prices. The wholesaler operated from a pricing schedule that might be 50% to 60% below the published price and would accordingly use a multiplying factor of of .5 to .6 against the listed price to figure his cost. One multiplier might apply to the whole catalog or several different ones to particular stock numbers. That way, the manufacturer could use the same catalog for several years and just make adjustments to the price by mailing out "confidential" pricing guides to the wholesalers as costs changed. The wholesalers in turn provided similar "confidential" lists to their retail customers which reflected their discount. The retailer could then point to the catalog and show the customer the retail price. If he put his own mark up on it and it was cheaper than the price in the catalog, the retail buyer thought he was getting a deal. The internet has done away with the pricing veil and the middle man so it is much easier to figure out who has the cheapest price. Frankly, I think we were better off paying a little more to a local dealer who had the product in stock and knew something about what he was selling.
That is very interesting. When I worked for a electric motor company. They sold bearings. There were three or four different colored price sheets. Various customers were givenwhat I think was favorable prices. The mark up was tremendous on ball bearings
I love the Lufkin tools too. In fact, they're slightly a secret that helps the home machinist. Everyone and their mother's are looking for Starrett and Brown & Sharpe on eBay so the Lufkin kind of flies under the radar and remains affordable. Of course us talking about it doesn't help, but oh well. BTW if anyone's mother is actually looking for machinist tools you have an awesome mother! ;o)
Nice to See your Face. I have not watched your videos for a while but now i think i will look for what you did upload the past time. You are still one oft my favorite people to watch, you do a very good job and have so good knowlege & skills, Go on with that. Regards from Germany
One of my best friend's dad worked and retired from Lufkin Rule in Saginaw, Michigan. Use to go by there all the time. The building didn't seem unusually large from the front but couldn't tell how deep it was. I thought they only made folding rules and tape measures until seeing your videos. This would have been in the early 70's while they may still have been making precision stuff. Hummmmm, maybe I'll call up his son to see if he has any of these precision tools. He was a pattern maker. Oh well, not that you care but to me it was interesting and brought back memories. Thanks Mr. Pete.
@@larrysbk 1730 HESS STREET SAGINAW , MICHIGAN I googled it and saw some old pics but they either remodeled it or tore it down because it looks like a newer bldg. I live in Florida now but know the whole east side is really bad now. Be careful.
@@plainwornout3964 Thank you. I looked at Streetview for that address. It's an empty field, but I'm still going to visit the site to get a feel for the place
Another great video on squares this time, however the teacher teaches us well even if about the single topic of squares specific to toolmakers and to us the tiny ones are what we use micro-machinists, thank you mrpete. Might now go see what toolmaker squares we have around here and from who? I love that you love those tools sir. We are so happy with your Lufkin SET WOW.
Seeing all those scales reminds me of a horrible event I witnessed. A friend of mine cleaned out houses that had been foreclosed on. If he saw something he wanted he could take it. One of those free items was a mint condition Starrett scale. It was really an extremely expensive yardstick - 36" long, 4R pattern graduations ( 1/16, 1/32, 1/64, 1/8"), satin finish . It was maybe 1 1/2" wide and maybe 1/4" thick . He used it in his living room leaning against the wall next to the door to keep some long window drapes from blowing in the wind when the door opened. I told him it was valuable and to sell it but he didn't take my advice. He had a one room addition built and one day the one man roofing contractor showed up. I went over to help and climbed up on the roof where my friend was helping the contractor. That beautiful Starrett scale was also up there - being used as a straight edge to cut shingles. Because of its weight it had slid down off the roof at least once so the contractor kept sliding it under installed shingles to hold it. I cannot describe how badly scratched up it was.
I hope they bury me in a Starrett box. Love the read through the catalog, you could do an hour of just looking at the things you think are cool. Got to get back to my 5c collet index 11 hole plate and junky hommade DRO found my hole circle radius is 1.7725 perfect fit great way to start the day thanks Tubalcain
Thanks very informative, don't have as many small die as you but I ani't stopping. It is sickness they are such elegant little tool ya cannot help but love them.
That picture of L.S. Starrett looks kinda like you Mrpete222. Maybe you are him reincarnated. The resemblance is striking. Thanks for this video. I was just thinking today in the shop how I need some accurate squares, wallah, you made the perfect timed video. Appreciated.
Thanks Mr Pete - you sounded under the weather - we all need you to look after yourself - we need many many many more videos - you have only imparted about 20 percent of your knowledge . many thanks as always.@@mrpete222
Others have noted the price for the Starrett die makers square.... If you buy new from Starrett you can forget Chinese priceing. I bought a Starrett 1025-6 caliper for $2 a year or so ago...This is the direct reading 1/64" type, not a vernier. I was curious and looked it up new: $231.00 . Over the years Starrett has never been cheap. But they are the benchmark for quality tools.. and you can get spare parts and accessories which is no small thing.
Hi Mrpete I just came across your video when you bought the new molding table and it prompted to let you know of an aussie youtuber I found, He is a semi professional aluminium caster. He has some different ideas on casting that you may or may not have heard of.His youtube name is olfoundryman if you would like to have a look. Keep up the great work.
Believe it or not, my first auction purchase was a Starrett 457C die maker's square, not even one year ago. Mr. Pete, if you would like to have it in your collection, I would be happy to send it your way.
Hi MIKE. YES, I would like it very much. I have never seen one. Please get my address from this video -- tubalcain BACK TO SCHOOL SPECIAL Videos SHOP Courses. Thank you very much.
Mike. I received the square and love it.. It appears to be brand new. It will be a fine addition to my collection. It will be shown in several videos, so watch for them over the next few months. Sounds like you have a good background and I'm glad you had good shop teachers. And thanks for doing the LORD'S work as a missionary. Thanks again, lyle.
I'm mildly disappointed that we didn't also see pictures of Messers Brown and Sharpe and also Mr. Lufkin. I've often wondered how brown was Mr. Brown - and how sharp was Mr. Sharpe. Will I ever know?
Gee Thanks for punishing me with more Lufkin squares that I cannot hold in my grubby arthritic fingers. thanks any way Mr Pete aka "The Professor". ATB to Jan
you mentioned in one of your videos you worked at caterpillar , was that in decatur il, i had a friend who worked there in the machine shop, hes about your age, calven or cal, is his first name, not really a common name
I'd like my coffin painted up like that, though maybe not Starrett colours. Everyone dies, I would prefer mind to be a celebration of my life than morbid. I would expect jokes in my eulogy too.
As this is kind of about metrology I thought you might be interested in this youtube channel th-cam.com/users/ROBRENZ Alot of stuff about surface grinding, lapping, squareness and other interesting stuff related to precise machine making and design.
Hi Pete. I still have my little square bought new in 1965. Not a diemaker square, as the "filing draft" method of die making was already pretty well obsolete. In the 60's, steels were designed like puzzle pieces to allow access for grinding draft. Then in the 70s when wedm, came into being, die steels devolved back to primarily solid, and draft was cut with the wire and on most dies, standards eliminated the land area. Incidently, wedm reduced die cost by 30-40 percent, and slashed lead times. This method also, required much less skill on the part of the diemaker. I also have a proclivity for luftkin and as I put together my tools, I obtained them when I could. My indicators of choice are Federal. Tools were very expensive back then as opposed to now. Lots of shops would pay for your purchase and then deducted an amount out of your check to repay them. You made is many of your own tools as you could. Fowler offered an alternative to brand name stuff and quite often machinists went that route as they were not making the money tool and diemakers were. Gem indicators were more economical than starrett for example. A jobshop diemaker supplied about 95 percent of his tools while most captive toolmakers could count on much more tools to be provided. Not sure anyone will even read this, but maybe someone will find it interesting. Tc Mike
I do find those interesting. That is a good analysis. Thank you
The comment is very good information about the history of die making and the economics of innovation, thanks.
Mister Pete. You are a Nation Treasure. All your videos should be saved in the National Archives. How can you know so much about machining? And the way you present your material, clear and concise. And I love when you go off topic. Always entertaining and usually useful. There's no one like you. God bless.
Thank you very much. That is a high compliment. Keep watching
I just received my Grandfather’s Lufkin 138c in its original box. Your video showed me how to use it. Thank you very much for doing this content.
My father was a tool and die maker who graduated college in 1932. I have an assortment of tools that I am still trying to find the use for and this video answered several of my questions. I have several offset blades as you showed on the Lufkin. I also have a couple of the angle indicating squares, again, I had no idea how they worked until now. Thanks Mr. Pete for another great and informative shop video.
I'm glad I helpedyou figure that out
Wonderful presentation. It inspired me to prowl the toolbox of an old toolmaker friend of mine who had in his collection many of the squares you demonstrated.
Here's few recollections. Charles Tutus served his toolmaker apprenticeship in the late '30's. He worked his trade in the Seattle Tacoma area until WWII. He tried to enlist after Pearl Harbor but his was a trade necessary for the war effort. Instead, he was directed to the Naval shipyard in Bremerton. Being skilled with fine mechanism, he found himself in the director shop of the Navy yard where I started my machinist apprenticeship in 1961. Gun directors for the big Naval rifles of the day were mechanical. They were filled with gears, linkage, and other mechanism that integrated ship's course and speed, ship's motion, target course and speed, range, windage, ballistic factors (projectile, propellant, etc,) Coriolis effect, barometric pressure and so on enabling 30 yard first round CEP at 15 miles. This required many specialized tools to reach the zillion points of adjustment within the dirsctor. This is where Chuck became an irreplaceable expert, ensuring the big guns shot straight.
After the war, the Navy moved on to missiles and the technology changed accordingly as did the treasures Chuck added to his toolbox. Over the years Chuck was promoted from post to post and by the time he retired he'd advanced to become the head of Combat Systems, a very senior position in the Shipyard civilian heirarchy. He was my neighbor for many years. Since he was a fellow who never lost his interest in making things and still retained his skills, he was a regular at my home shop and had the run of it even when I wasn't home. Conversion flowed as we worked together teaching each other our tricks and methods.
We rebuilt his rusty old boat trailer incorporating improvements for launching and retrieving, welded stainless seal journals on this axles and dozens of other projects. After he retired and got older he'd ask me to muscle the lathe chuck or the mill vise for his work the next day.
Chuck's toolbox and his collection of special tools fascinated me. He had stories for each one linked to people he worked with back in the day. We spent many an evening in his garage poring over his treasures until his wife dragged him in for dinner or the telephone. Eventually, age caught up with Chuck and he passed in 1995. His family passed on to me Chuck's toolbox, an heirloom if ever there was one. I'm of an age now when I have to think where my treasures go when my turn comes.
I've written a short biography of Charles B Titus. This, together with a few photos, momentos from his life long membership with the Elks and the yacht club, and a provenance for his toolbox has historical value. In my will, I've instructed my executor to deliver Chuck's relics to the local historical society where they rotate collections from old county residents into their exhibits.
Great guy, Chuck. He deserves remembering.
Such remembrances are stimulated when old farts ponder over precision tools of yore.
Thank you for an extremely interesting story. Shock must've been quite a man. And I think you are too. That tool chest is truly a treasure.
Thanks Lyle! As much air time as you give Starrett, I cant believe they have not given you an invitation for a tour!
Yes thanks
I think the small notch on the body of the square is to see the number graduations better without hiding the numbers under the edge of the body.
You are probably right, I never thought of that
One of the best videos I’ve seen in TH-cam. He knew what we were looking for! Thank you so much!
You're very welcome!
I actually have one of those B&S no 554A (square with bevel blade). It's a beautiful tool. Was really neat being able to read that short blurb about it in the catalog.
👍
Love those old books and catalogs. Thanks.
👍
Mr Pete, we certainly appreciate the time and effort that you invest in your channel. Stopping to document still photos of a project is time consuming enough, but video and the associated lighting, set-ups, run-throughs, and editing is a time consuming endeavor. On behalf of your "students" - Thank You !!
Thank you very much. And I love the fact that you realize all of the little details involved in making a video. Lots of time for the set ups unloading. Keep watching
Wonderful, I recently obtained a Starrett Die Makers square, wondered what that adjusting screw was for,
this was great talking about Lufkin, I have some Lufkin tools but did not realize how good they were.....thanks Mr. Pete.....Paul
I always admired the line drawings in the older catalogs. Very enjoyable to look at. They were widely used in old textbooks as well. Many thanks, my friend.
Yes they were I like them also
You cracked me up with the B&S rule holding the book open.
lol
I enjoyed this video, as I am a woodworker and frequent user of my #14 Starrett. Actually, I'm on my second one, as the first one got buried in sawdust and then swept up and discarded with same (I can only surmise). After a thorough search (and a few choice words) I immediately ordered another, as I knew I couldn't do good work without one. Now I keep a careful eye on my little gem!
That's a good story, thank you for watching
Mr. Pete,
I found one of the Starrett squares in the back of my father's toolbox. It has the blade with the angled ends and the two adjusting knobs. I always wondered just what it was used for. He was a turret lathe operator for GE for 20 years. I don't know where he would have used it. At least now I know what it was for.
Thanks!
I bet you value your dad's tools greatly
I love these old tools and revisiting a time when precision was standard.
👍👍
mrpete222, I am amazed at how much I enjoyed this video. Truly and education for me.I am kind of a frustrated former wanna be machinist. I wanted to go to the local Vocational technical high school. It was denied me by my parents due to the advice of a neighboring farmer. It really fascinated my when I was young. Good Job. :-)
I'm glad you liked it. It is unfortunate that you did not go to technical school. But you can still learn all of that on your own.
Yes I can, by attending your school. :-)@@mrpete222
i just picked up a Union wooden machinist box filled with tools that belonged to a gentleman who was a tool and die maker at a newspaper plant. the newest chart is from 1982,so i assume he retired close to it. it was nice to get the history from his son and daughter in law,and she sold it to me for 45 dollars... there is a video on my channel showing the unboxing and its contents. if that box could talk,imagine the stories it could tell,i dont think i have any of those precision squares tho
Thank you, I want to watch that
I love seeing the old catalogs.
👍👍
Thanks for this video. Although not a machinist, I’m always interested in how things are made.
👍👍
Thank you for another nice presentation sir. Love the delicacy and craftsmanship of these old tools. Lovely catalogs too. Thank you!
👍👍
Today’s prices.... Starrett #457 list price @ $222.00ea.
Wow
good grief, not 4 me.
Holy shit. I'd bet Mr pete has over a million in tools at list price.
I spent my working career in the plumbing industry and used wooden 6 foot folding rules for the entire time. I still carry one in the pocket of my jeans after 7 years of retirement. The Lufkin rules were the best ones I've ever had. They were nearly unbreakable and outlasted every other brand, so don't worry they still kept their quality in their products.
I am glad to hear that they still are quality. My dad always used to Lufkin. And I still own a few of them myself
I live in the Detroit area and am very pleased to know how many manufacturers of precision metalworking tools were in Michigan. I have a small collection of Lufkin vintage precision tools including some rules, micrometers and a complete combination square set. I'm going to figure out where the Lufkin plant was in Saginaw so I can at least visit where all of these beautiful tools were made.
Yes, check it out
I enjoy the detail you go into. I have a 1941 brown & sharpe and a #7 Lufkin also. My B&S is also from La Ca. I have spent hours going over them, between yours and adoms vidios. Have been praying for your brother and family.
Thanks for this video. I have a couple of these, and found this video quite enjoyable. It's surprising how valuable some of these little squares are as collectibles. I picked au a Starrett 457 for a few dollars a while back just because I thought it was a neat. Turns out they bring north of 40 to 50 clams on flebay all he time.
Yes, since they have become collectible, they are too expensive for the average machinist to own.
Interesting mr. Pete....I live just outside of Saginaw Michigan where the Lufkin mfg. was. (I believe they moved late 60s to North Carolina, merged with Cooper tools ) My aunts and uncles used to work there. I also have several Lufkin tools from that era of my grandfather's collection....it's good to see that stuff still being used today.
Thank you, I remember a salesman coming into the high school about 1970. He told me Lufkin Percision tools or no longer available. He offered meseveral tools and said they were clearing out the lufkin stock
Excellent video mrpete. Just keep talking and draw it out as much as you like. I can put up with it all day long. Thanks for sharing. regards from the UK
👍👍
thank you for sharing this video. I got alot of my Grandfathers old tools and he was a tool and die maker. I know what alot of what I got was but there was always small odds and ends that i didn't know went with what. I've got several of these types of squares and now I know what the Z shaped things you say you never use at 11:37 in the tool box go with.
I'm glad you like the video. It's interesting that you are enjoying your grandfather's tools.
Thank you for the informative video. I just found a Lufkin 138 in my dad's tools and this was perfect. It only has two blades but it is in great condition. Can't wait to put it to use. You definitely earned a new subscriber today.
Welcome aboard
The prices that appear in many of these old catalogs were often above actual retail or wholesale prices. The wholesaler operated from a pricing schedule that might be 50% to 60% below the published price and would accordingly use a multiplying factor of of .5 to .6 against the listed price to figure his cost. One multiplier might apply to the whole catalog or several different ones to particular stock numbers. That way, the manufacturer could use the same catalog for several years and just make adjustments to the price by mailing out "confidential" pricing guides to the wholesalers as costs changed. The wholesalers in turn provided similar "confidential" lists to their retail customers which reflected their discount. The retailer could then point to the catalog and show the customer the retail price. If he put his own mark up on it and it was cheaper than the price in the catalog, the retail buyer thought he was getting a deal. The internet has done away with the pricing veil and the middle man so it is much easier to figure out who has the cheapest price. Frankly, I think we were better off paying a little more to a local dealer who had the product in stock and knew something about what he was selling.
That is very interesting. When I worked for a electric motor company. They sold bearings. There were three or four different colored price sheets. Various customers were givenwhat I think was favorable prices. The mark up was tremendous on ball bearings
I love the Lufkin tools too. In fact, they're slightly a secret that helps the home machinist. Everyone and their mother's are looking for Starrett and Brown & Sharpe on eBay so the Lufkin kind of flies under the radar and remains affordable. Of course us talking about it doesn't help, but oh well.
BTW if anyone's mother is actually looking for machinist tools you have an awesome mother! ;o)
I hope I didn't blow the whole secret about Lufkin.
Great video Lyle. I always loved those diemaker squares. Was happy to get my 1st and only so far with that large tool purchase I made. 👍Thumbs up
I am still envious of that big toolbox you bought, LOL
@@mrpete222 LOL, that was a score on my part. I needed them for sure.
Another excellent video. Thanks, Mr Pete.
Nice to See your Face. I have not watched your videos for a while but now i think i will look for what you did upload the past time. You are still one oft my favorite people to watch, you do a very good job and have so good knowlege & skills, Go on with that.
Regards from Germany
Welcome back and thanks for watching
Great info as always, always something to learn on Mr. Pete's channel. Best on TH-cam.
Thanks
One of my best friend's dad worked and retired from Lufkin Rule in Saginaw, Michigan. Use to go by there all the time. The building didn't seem unusually large from the front but couldn't tell how deep it was. I thought they only made folding rules and tape measures until seeing your videos. This would have been in the early 70's while they may still have been making precision stuff.
Hummmmm, maybe I'll call up his son to see if he has any of these precision tools. He was a pattern maker.
Oh well, not that you care but to me it was interesting and brought back memories. Thanks Mr. Pete.
Yes I do care, and I lament the loss of our major manufacturers
Can you tell me what where they were located in Saginaw? I'd like to go by there to at least see the site of their building was.
@@larrysbk 1730 HESS STREET SAGINAW , MICHIGAN
I googled it and saw some old pics but they either remodeled it or tore it down because it looks like a newer bldg.
I live in Florida now but know the whole east side is really bad now. Be careful.
@@mrpete222 Very sad indeed.
@@plainwornout3964 Thank you. I looked at Streetview for that address. It's an empty field, but I'm still going to visit the site to get a feel for the place
I've found, like you, that Lufkin tools are world class and as well made as Starrett, B&S, or Mitutoyo.
👍👍
Another great video on squares this time, however the teacher teaches us well even if about the single topic of squares specific to toolmakers and to us the tiny ones are what we use micro-machinists, thank you mrpete. Might now go see what toolmaker squares we have around here and from who? I love that you love those tools sir. We are so happy with your Lufkin SET WOW.
Thank you, I'm glad you liked the video. And that you love those little squares
Seeing all those scales reminds me of a horrible event I witnessed. A friend of mine cleaned out houses that had been foreclosed on. If he saw something he wanted he could take it. One of those free items was a mint condition Starrett scale. It was really an extremely expensive yardstick - 36" long, 4R pattern graduations ( 1/16, 1/32, 1/64, 1/8"), satin finish . It was maybe 1 1/2" wide and maybe 1/4" thick . He used it in his living room leaning against the wall next to the door to keep some long window drapes from blowing in the wind when the door opened. I told him it was valuable and to sell it but he didn't take my advice. He had a one room addition built and one day the one man roofing contractor showed up. I went over to help and climbed up on the roof where my friend was helping the contractor. That beautiful Starrett scale was also up there - being used as a straight edge to cut shingles. Because of its weight it had slid down off the roof at least once so the contractor kept sliding it under installed shingles to hold it. I cannot describe how badly scratched up it was.
You just ruined my day
some things you should keep to your self
Lufkin had a nice touch with the knurled screw don't have to find a tool to adjust a tool.
Yes thanks
Enjoy the videos Mr.Pete...keepum coming!! Thanks!!
👍
Very interesting yeah, I love when you get it the old tool catalogs!
Thanks
I hope they bury me in a Starrett box. Love the read through the catalog, you could do an hour of just looking at the things you think are cool. Got to get back to my 5c collet index 11 hole plate and junky hommade DRO found my hole circle radius is 1.7725 perfect fit great way to start the day thanks Tubalcain
Yes, I love those old catalogs
Thanks very informative, don't have as many small die as you but I ani't stopping. It is sickness they are such elegant little tool ya cannot help but love them.
Yes
That picture of L.S. Starrett looks kinda like you Mrpete222. Maybe you are him reincarnated. The resemblance is striking. Thanks for this video. I was just thinking today in the shop how I need some accurate squares, wallah, you made the perfect timed video. Appreciated.
Yes, I probably am him reincarnated.
adventure's in tooling a series by Mr.Pete222 ( Tubalcain ) looking forward to the next few thousand!!
I should turn it into a series. But only if it gets a lot of views. And I doubt that it will, too esoteric
oh I need one of those ! No idea on which project I'd use or even need one, but you know...
lol
These are neat devices. Thank you.
👍
Excellent video, love those little squares too
👍👍
Another great video MrPete. Thanks
Thanks
Great video, loved it, its good to see the old quality brands too, before everything was made down to a price in asia.
Thanks
Your levity is great. Mr. Starrett was actually buried in a Brown & Sharpe coffin.
lol
Only if his wife was glad to see him go. Lol
Thanks for the tool videos Mr Pete
👍
Just looked at an inflation chart. $4 in 1935 was about $75, today. Thanks for the video, sir!
Wow
THANK YOU...for sharing. Nice collection.
Very interesting! Great precision tools.
Yes
Thanks Mr Pete - I'm going straight to eBay to buy a lufkin square,
Yes lol
Thanks Mr Pete - you sounded under the weather - we all need you to look after yourself - we need many many many more videos - you have only imparted about 20 percent of your knowledge . many thanks as always.@@mrpete222
Thanks for sharing.
Thanks
Thanks for the info while I try to avoid a “Dirt Nap” !
lol
I remember when $4 was a lot of money, and that was in the '70s.
May also
I meant, me too
Hey, you stole my joke! You are welcome to it, of course. Keeps these fun videos coming please.
lol
Thank you sir, great video! Very informative.
👍
Do you have an improved version of the Brown and Sharpe? I am trying to figure out how to disassemble the head I have. I need to make a blade.
No, I have only seen them in pictures
Love it! Thanks!
Thanks
Mr Pete, just bought myself a Starrett 14 (A) do you oil yours for rust protection?
No, but I probably should
I have an old Starrett catalog, 1938 but looks exactly like yours, and about the same prices....$4...'a days pay'...probably right...!
Those catalogs were pretty much the same during the 30s
Others have noted the price for the Starrett die makers square.... If you buy new from Starrett you can forget Chinese priceing. I bought a Starrett 1025-6 caliper for $2 a year or so ago...This is the direct reading 1/64" type, not a vernier. I was curious and looked it up new: $231.00 . Over the years Starrett has never been cheap. But they are the benchmark for quality tools.. and you can get spare parts and accessories which is no small thing.
Yes, they sure are not cheap
Hi Mrpete I just came across your video when you bought the new molding table and it prompted to let you know of an aussie youtuber I found, He is a semi professional aluminium caster. He has some different ideas on casting that you may or may not have heard of.His youtube name is olfoundryman if you would like to have a look. Keep up the great work.
Thank you, I watch them all the time. And he was very critical of my techniques
It WAS interesting.
Thanks.
Thanks
Believe it or not, my first auction purchase was a Starrett 457C die maker's square, not even one year ago. Mr. Pete, if you would like to have it in your collection, I would be happy to send it your way.
Hi MIKE. YES, I would like it very much. I have never seen one. Please get my address from this video -- tubalcain BACK TO SCHOOL SPECIAL Videos SHOP Courses. Thank you very much.
Mike. I received the square and love it.. It appears to be brand new. It will be a fine addition to my collection.
It will be shown in several videos, so watch for them over the next few months. Sounds like you have a good background and I'm glad you had good shop teachers. And thanks for doing the LORD'S work as a missionary.
Thanks again, lyle.
@@mrpete222 I look forward to seeing it get some use!
Thanks for sharing sir...
👍
When the man at the start said “I’m mrpete’
I didn’t know 🤭😂😂
Didn't know what?
I've only been to three auctions and in none of them was the item I bought the complete item I saw during inspection.
I'm mildly disappointed that we didn't also see pictures of Messers Brown and Sharpe and also Mr. Lufkin. I've often wondered how brown was Mr. Brown - and how sharp was Mr. Sharpe. Will I ever know?
I gave my book away, it was the history of brown and sharp. They were pictures in there. I have never seen pictures of lufkin
Hi Mr Pete do you ever do sheet metal bending
I used to at the high school. I do not own a break
The metric square may have been for people making NATO military products, which I believe were made to metric dimensions.
Yes
Thanks for class teach!
👍
Gee Thanks for punishing me with more Lufkin squares that I cannot hold in my grubby arthritic fingers. thanks any way Mr Pete aka "The Professor". ATB to Jan
👍👍
you mentioned in one of your videos you worked at caterpillar , was that in decatur il, i had a friend who worked there in the machine shop, hes about your age, calven or cal, is his first name, not really a common name
No, I was at the Pontiac plant
Enjoyed! :-)
👍
I'd like my coffin painted up like that, though maybe not Starrett colours. Everyone dies, I would prefer mind to be a celebration of my life than morbid. I would expect jokes in my eulogy too.
I like your attitude
Sometimes the hair on our face grows as long as the tip of our nose.
Yes, what's with the hair sticking out of my nose
hi i like tool i bu as many as i can.
👍👍👍
👍
Thanks
If there ever was a need for a time machine......
Yes
That's probably a bad idea. This Old Tony did that once and we ended up with Avon79.
hi i like to get a sander for my shop .
Yes
some of those cost a days wages in 1940
Yes
As this is kind of about metrology I thought you might be interested in this youtube channel
th-cam.com/users/ROBRENZ
Alot of stuff about surface grinding, lapping, squareness and other interesting stuff related to precise machine making and design.
If you thought this would be interesting… you underestimated. To some… it’s lost knowledge, found!
👍👍
I wonder what is the squareness on those.
I bet they're close to perfect
I just received my Grandfather’s Lufkin 138c in its original box. Your video showed me how to use it. Thank you very much for doing this content.
👍👍