SECRETS OF MOTOGP & F1 ENGINE POWER!!! | Pneumatic Valve Spring ( Working Mechanism & History )
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 ส.ค. 2022
- Hello Every one. in this video we will talking about Pneumatic Valve Spring ( Working Mechanism & History ) and increasing Engine Power significantly. Thanks For Watching
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No need to apologize for your English. Very concise and thorough. I appreciate your approach with your personal opinion not being a factor. The facts will speak for themselves. Thank you
I agree.
Your English is very good, much better in fact than that of many English people!
Quick tip.
Pneumatic is pronounced New-Matic, the 'P' is silent.
I don't envy people trying to learn English as a second language, much of it must be very confusing!
The world would be boring if people didn't have accents.😅
👍👍
true like he spoke good . kei right of t is not working for me idk whi
It's improved!
Because previously I couldn't understand him!
In the glory days of F1 (before FIA guillotine), this is the same technology that broke the 20,000 RPM barrier. I miss that soundtrack soooooo bad.
Me too
Kawasaki made an absolute monster of a MotoGP engine that could rev upto 22,000 rpm for their MotoGP bike before all these fancy tech ever was invented. It truly was a screamer engine.
They are still used in F1
@@timwhiskerd2133 - indeed... but sadly, 20,000rpm V10s and V12s are not 🙇♂️
Very sad, that sound is in my soul
An advantage of a gas spring to close the valves is that the pressure can be varied. Low pressure at low revs, and a curve of increasing pressure as the revs rise.
agreed 👌
A video about desmodromic would be fine too 👍
Exactly right I hadn't read your comment before I posted a similar one
Back when F1 used 2.4L V8's they developed the "air spring" valve train because, metal valve spring doesn't work to well over 15K rpm's, the V8 revved to 22K but, were limited to 18K by the FIA. I went to the last 2 races @Indy they sounded great coming down the front straight before lifting to make turn1, I like the V8 sound.
😂😂1😂9😮😂
Very interesting video that answered my question about pneumatic valves. By the way, your english is perfectly fine, no need to apologize for it.
Great video with very good content about the pneumatic system! Thank you!
*_Koenigsegg's Free Valve System is 'Camless'... uses no cam at all._*
3 things limit RPM: Valve Float, Piston Velocity, and Burning rate of Fuel.
Managing Valve Float is fairly easy. There are proven technologies in use today.
Long Stroke Engines have higher piston velocities. That is why high revving engines have short strokes. There is an upper limit on any rotating mass. If engine is turning 12,000 rpm, the piston is going up and down 200 times per second. 300 times per second for 18,000 rpm. That means the piston goes from top dead center, accelerates down, then decelerates at bottom dead center, then accelerates up, decelerates at top dead center again.
Now repeat this 200 or 300 times every second. This puts massive G-loads on pistons and rods. At some point engine explodes into pieces.
Fuel can only burn so fast. If the piston is moving faster than the fuel can burn no more power is produced. It can actually cause an engine to destroy itself by violent 'knock'. This is the *_Absolute Limiting Factor_* in any internal contusion engine. The 'Flame Front' (burn rate) is fixed by fuel type, compression, ignition timing, and more factors.
Want to see spectacular engine failures... watch dyno runs when 1 or more of these 3 limiting factors fail. I've seen engines explode like bombs.... flames and shrapnel.
*_Lessons learned... every engine has an upper limit. Exceed it and pay the price._*
Any lift or duration is infinitely variable. At any rev. At any load. At anytime.
@@user-pk5sm2nj4k Thanks for comment. Finally a perfect camshaft...
3:52 The popup image is definitely not DOHC, but a SOHC for a unit injected VW TDI diesel
Excellent review and totally understandable.
Judging by the comments, it sadly seems that governing bodies don’t want too many spectators at race events.
Anyway,
good to know that for road use this would price itself into oblivion.
Thanks for an excellent and informative review 😉
Extremely good explanation and unbelievable graphics! Thank you very much for the awesome video subscribed!
Honda had race engines in the 1960's revving to over 20k rpm using springs.
Tiny, super lightweight parts was their method.
Think about that- well over 100 valve openings per second!
If you mean FI, they weren't doing 20k..!!
@@michaelgreentree868 their motorcycle race bikes
Rc166 Honda
Your English is fine - no need to apologize. Also your video is well done and explained the valve systems so even I could understand.
Excellent vlog - takes the mystery out of such a mysterious technology. The next logical evolutionary step is are electronic valves - no cams, no springs.
This is the real secret behind MotoGP machines reaching 18000 RPM...yes it is !!! And this system is not available from our normal auto parts shop. Thanks for the video!!
most likely the costs 😅
Talk it to CBR250RR 1990 year, with 22000 redline
@@helloslayer666 22000 revs just like a F1 car!! Super!! 👀
Your English is fine, I had no difficulty understanding anything that you said. Great video 💯👍
Please keep it up excellent presentation,
Thank you. I really enjoyed the video. I'm a fairly decent machinist that races mini's, and it's tempting to try to make the metal bellows for the 190cc bike I have. Maybe sometime soon I could afford to try.
Your English is just fine my friend! Very well explained great video!
His English is lacking. Saying it's fine is patronizing and insulting but you'd rather bullshit someone to make yourself look like mr nice.
The valve system is one reason for lack of high rpms. There are many other reasons that limit rpms. Piston weight and design, connecting rod weight and design, crankshaft weight and design, camshaft lobe profiles, and many other reasons.
All boiles down to inertia weight.
@@quartusbuys6831 that boils down to how much force materials can handle before deforming and giving up.
Thanks for sharing ,it is very informative .
On the issue I remember very well a F1 BMW engine many years ago
A turbocharged one
I was shocked by seeing on tv the needle of the rev meter
It was jumping from zero to about 19k without any lag
I was amazed by the absolute lack of inertia
Good video and the narrators command of American (or is that English) is also very good. Ditto for a lot of the comments below. Just a few constructive criticisms since you asked.
5:23 - Nitrogen in what is called an inert gas, which is not subject to external temperature changes. 6:19 - Define "pascala" and convert "10 bars" to PSI for your American viewers. 6:30 - Change "broke the bellows" to "break the bellows." 6:38 - The nitrogen reservoir in the system is similar in function to a reservoir used on a rear shock in modern off-road rear suspension systems, particularly MX bikes. Hope this helps.
Very clear graphics. Thank you.
very nice! Thanks!
Great video!
Great video 👍
Nice video! Thanks
Thanks for a great video with excellent animations. I was curious about how pneumatic valves on F1 cars worked and started searching for this info about 5 years ago and couldn’t find anything.
If the animation scale is accurate, I’m surprised by the narrow diameter tubes between the reservoir and the valve actuator. I’d imagine a larger diameter would be way more efficient, reducing speed and friction of gases transferring between the two.
Your English is very good. No probs. Keep up the good work and thanks.
I learned something… thank you.
Nice job on the video
Nice! Thanks!
Your speech is perfect sir 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
Excellent, thanks
Your English is fine, easily understood.
Nice vid
The turbo ricer cars backfiring isn’t due to valve float it’s a 2 step rev limiter to set the launch RPM where you want it and the secondary step is the actual rev limiter cutting ignition cycles.
they're tuning *in* the afterfire... external combustion is bad, m'kay... th-cam.com/video/5BKjVYAlPDU/w-d-xo.html
Just wanted to let you know your captions says “Reynolds” several times as you refer to the Renault motor… overall excellent video and explanation…
Needed the desmo explanation along side these especially due to opening footage of a bike with neither of the two actuation techniques
Aprilia introduced pneumatic springs in 2002 with the RS CUBE, which engine was developed by cosworth. Then Honda and Yamaha used them in 2007 with the new regulations, thise engines could rev up to 20k rpm, also Ducati could.
thanks for spelling that out for us
Clear well paced diction; nothing wrong with your English, sir.
Your English is great!
Started an earlier post by the dumb box ate it.... or something.
I seem to remember a certain cam manufacturer that was experimenting with a steep approach ramp on the lobe and with using softer valve springs would result in a higher lift and longer duration at higher RPM levels. This would make a milder more driveable cam at lower speeds and the specs when checking it would result in both a lower lift and longer duration cam to help get around some rules put in place by a few organizations I don't know if it was ever produced or if they ran into problems with valve spring reliability or what but would really like to hear more about it and what happened.
English is better than most native speakers😂 Great vid, answered all my questions and more!
Or a Scotsman !!
Koenigsegg is different though, they call it free valve because they dont use camshafts aswell
Excellent video. Thank you !
thank you mustafa
No need to apologize for your English. I understood all of your excellent explanation.
Best
Nice
You're English is just fine dude good job
*Your English is just fine......
Where abouts did electromagnetic valve systems end up over time? *Great post by the way. :)
Thanks!!!!
The other problem with high rpm valves/springs is that the hysteresis in the valve spring can heat it enough to loses its temper so it loses tension and suffers lower rpm float. PS: very good with english.
Makasih bang
at Low RPMs nearly all the energy which goes into the spring is returned to the engine through the closing ramp...with increasing inertia losses as it gets closer to float..
when you look at valve gear, and pistons, you realise why turbines are so superior (in the right application).
"closing ramp"?
@@ivok9846 the part of the cam lobe, which lets the valve spring return the flower to the base circle clearance..
@@RulgertGhostalker ah yeah, around 0:46 one can see spring "helping" camshaft move from 6 to 9 o'clock, so to speak...
@@ivok9846 Yes, exactly...the energy used to compress the spring, is stored in the spring, until then....then the spring energy goes back from whence it came ( for the most part )...but as the RPM increases, less of that energy is returned; with the inertia of the valve-train consuming more of the springs stored energy, and less making it back into the engine's rotation..
if you think of driving a car over the crest of a hill very fast, the car is not pushing down on the road as much, as it would have been if you were driving slowly...
Mc22 Cbr250rr. I have one. 1994. It has valve springs. Sure. Double valve springs. Per cylinder. And small capacity. But she sounds AWESOME going through a tunnel
Bonjour , c'est Jean-Pierre Boudy qui à déveloper le rappelle pneumatique des soupapes pour Renault Sport , le brevet date de 1982 . Jean-louis (ex Renault Sport)
Also the nitrogen has less resonance AKA harmonics (edit) effects than a steel spring. Although a gas spring also has sonic resonance.
Thank u bro
Simplest thing is to use rotary valve for IC engines. The springs and especially in high performance engine where they use nested springs steals a lot of horsepower from the engine. But i believe the electric solenoid valves can and will be the future tech if the IC engine will be allowed to live in the future. If they can manages to use electric solenoid in fuel injectors, that can open and close hundreds of times per second they can use it to open and close the valves in IC engines...
Electric valves wouldnt be reliable they get too hot
Rotary valves become complex to seal. Standard valves seal well and are durable. With a rotary, or sleeve, valve carbon buildup can make them stick. And it takes precise machining to get them to seal. They might be able to develop carbon seals or something that could make them work better. But, so far they aren’t as easy or reliable as standard valves.
Solenoid valves are promising. They seem like the future if it all works out. Can basically have the ideal valve action for all conditions.
@@NBSV1Why doesn't poppet valves have carbon buildup problem. Also it is just matter of design and techniques. You can use Teflon seals or coating...
@@jackdaniels2657 Tell Christian Koenigsegg that. Tell him his freevalve idea (that is currently working well) is useless... :D :D :D
@@Guds777 Poppet valves can have carbon buildup issues too. But, they don't have a large sliding surface it can buildup on and cause them to stick. Also, the action of poppet valves tends to crush the carbon on the sealing surface and keep it clean.
Teflon coating isn't going to hold up on an exhaust valve.
Things like valves haven't changed much in a long time because they've gotten to where they work plenty well enough with minimal drawbacks at a low price. There's different systems that have benefits, but also bring their own problems.
Bonjour, très belle invention. Merci pour la vidéo.
Your video at .41 shows a fuel injector on intake and exsaust sides of the engine. At 1.31 the back fire is from (turbo engine) routing the blow off (Air and fuel) back into the exsaust system past the turbo, it makes for great fires and noises.
There has been experimentation with electric solenoids. That would be a better system if it can be ever developed properly. Full control of valve actuation.
Plus if you using E85 30% of the unburnt fuel during combustion will be burnt off in the exhaust
thanks for the info, have you done a video about pneumatic circuit(reservoir, regultor, high / low pressure)?
thats more to look forward to,
i hope he would
Wow
Is there a video with deep stroker with >this system done . ?
I personally would use argon instead and have a variable pressure system.
Technically your English wasn't perfect sure, but it was perfectly understandable. Great video!
Pioneered by Renault and used in their 3.5 v10 in Williams FW12C and FW13 race cars
Desmodromic système is the best in terms of pure performance
Pneumatic valves as seen in high performance F1 and MotoGP engines will have gear driven cam shaft and not a chain drive as illustrated. In order to make a lot of power the engine needs to rev at very high RPM hense the need for pneumatic valves but the high RPM also means that regular chain driven cam shafts don't perform well. It's due to better throttle response, less slack in the gear driven system, low inertia of gears and the precise timing needed at very high RPM.
Could sleeve valves be the answer?
KTM’s SXF 250F engine also does more than 15k rpm, with springs, just an engine / bike you can buy yourself. I think the rpm in engines with this system will be even higher than the mentioned 15k.
❤
Aprilia had this technology on their IL3 designed in collaboration with cosworth, back in 2002
First used in F1 in 1986. Introduced by Renault
I can't stop dreaming about purging this system !! Getting a complete fill of nitrogen should be so much fun !!
Same as AC; pull vacuum, fill nitrogen
Honda Redbull F1 & KTM Redbull RC16 MotoGP ❤
Renault e seus motores super evolução
Ducati still uses desmodromic system it is good to 20,000 rpm. Aprilia, Honda and Yamaha use pneumatic springs.
Is there magnetic or hydraulic valve?
Thank you. Your English is pretty good. Just get rid of that high pitched bell!
Hello, may I ask is there any valve that doesn't need valve check/valve clearance?
of course there is, most (if not all) of the perfomance engines doesn't need valve check as they use hydraulic valves (oil pressure is forcing back the valve head touching the camshaft)
Nitrogen uses tok much horsepower to operate. I mean u figure it like the pressure it takes to keep the valve closed and close the valve pretty much slows down the camshaft causing a loss in horespower perhaps make the cam operate on an electric motor and use gears to open and close the valves that would actually be pretty good but gears would suffer alot aswell
5:41 The "key" to why pneumatic springs are used is that they have less inertial mass than a steel spring.
It has nothing to do with temperature stability.Temperature stability is the reason for the choice of nitrogen over another gas , not the choice of the valve return mechanism as a whole.
Btw Oxygen would never be used - hot oily environments and oxygen are not a good combination!
Very nice animated modelling - though the CEMENT MIXER valve opening diagram in the models is very unrealistic.
Talk it to CBR250RR 1990 year, with 22000 redline
Would this be better than free valve?
Great video
If the industry decided to adopt this system in all cars I would only buy old cars, imagine the headache for a common car to have such a system to run at 80 miles per hour maximum on the roads.
Desmotronic and Freevalve are the best systems
Thought they used the new Solenoid style not the old style anymore
I feel that Electro-magnetic valve-trains are the future! I believe that we can eventually utilize this technology, and it will allow the fastest valve operation physically possible in our world. Even after gasoline is banned, hydrogen can still be used in IC engines, so that the gearheads of the world will still have a soundtrack! Hydrogen is the future, and NOT pure EV (battery) powered engines. Hydrogen can be utilized in both a hybrid EV configuration, as a generator to charge batteries, or as a gas that can be burned the ‘old fashioned’ way- with pistons and stuff! Either way- hydrogen is the future - because we cannot EVER run out of hydrogen! The most abundant element in the entire known universe!
Looks similar to Ducati desmodronic valve system to me
The only issue is that sport bikes like 600cc class bikes can rev to 16k without issue. I owned a 2012 ZX6R as my 2nd bike and would take it to redline every day after proper warmup to experience that F1 type soundtrack. If not mistaken, pretty much all sport bike engines (Ducati non-prevalent) use std metal proprietary valve springs.
The problem with the pneumatic spring is durability. There is no way to use gaskets and piston in this system due to leakage. Than a metallic bellows is used to seal the system. In 1000 rpm in a 4 stroke engine the valve will open 500 times per second. In years of operation someone can imagine the number of circles the bellows must endure! The bellows will experience fatigue and will fail after a number of circles, which is certainly not enough for years of normal operation.
If someone could came with a material that stand the fatigue, maybe someday this would became reality.
I think bellows was an incorrect translation for what the animation showed - it was a cylinder with the upper valve retainer acting as a piston, sliding up and down the cylinder bore, rather than flexing as a bellows would. There would probably be some leakage around the valve stem and piston, but this could be kept to a minimum with precise tolerances and the right materials. Bear in mind these are used on racing engines with a limited service life.
Nitrogen gas is inert (will not chemically react with fuel) and abundant (cheap).
Wong indo 😎😎😎
now you have the free valve done by Koenigsegg no camshaft infinitely variable