You'll never get 100% nitrogen in a tire unless you mount the tires and rims in a vacuum chamber. But I just take mine to outer space just to make sure there is absolutely no air in them at all.
its very easy to do if you are serious about it, you run 2 valve stems, you can just pressurize the tire with nitrogen until the tire is only filled up with it or to save some money run a vacuum pump on one stem then fill with nitrogen on the other...
Nitrogen in a tire is not a scam, otherwise it wouldn't be used in airplane tires and other special cases. However that is more for high pressure and temperature changes. In the cases of garages though... I think some investigations by proper media should be done. (If there are any left)
Ok, well I do racing with my car and I've tested both N2 and normal air. The pressure rise with N2 is higher than air and hence it's less suitable for racing. Snakeoil
Think about this as follows: Every time the tyre loses pressure, it loses mostly oxygen. And everytime you have to top up, you fill in 78% nitrogen when pumping up with plain air. Consequently, the proportion of nitrogen in the tyre will increase over time anyway.
We use nitrogen in aircraft tires. But that is mainly because of brake and wheel fires. A lot of aircraft wheels are made with magnesium which burns very hot and if plain air is in the tire it would increase the fires intensity. I've seen quite a few tire and brake fires and it makes sense to me. As far as maintaining pressure we always checked tire pressures on daily and turnaround inspections.
Even with Oxygen leaking through the rubber and topping up the pressure you're heading towards a Nitrogen filled tyre. Fill with air initially and 21% (the O2) eventually leaks out. Replace that lost gas with more air and you're putting 78% nitrogen back in place of what was O2. So after one top-up you've now only got (0.21 * 0.21)*100 = 4.4% O2 in your tyre.
My current tires are manufactured in Canada, and I live in the state of Iowa in the USA. So every time I need to air my tires I have to wait for a Canadian cool front to blow in. Of course my compressor is made in China and doesn't like pumping anything but Chinese air. Dam world economy!!!!!
Logically You are completely right and we do not need Special Nitrogen in tyres. in India they take around 4$ for this and any topup they charge 50 cents. Holy crap
+Hemang. Shah. don't know where you live in India but in Chandigarh, first time they charge you Rs.40(less than $1) for all tires(which includes tire polish) and afterwards topup is free.
Loved that point at the end! Say it how it is!.... I check my Motorbikes tyre pressure every monday morning as a routine check.. Some may say that isn't often enough others might say it's a bit overkill... but i prefer routine and every Monday along with chain slack, brakefluid/brakepad wear, chain condition ect ect....
I agree with Tiff. I've been using his special mixture of gases for years - about 78% Nitrogen, 21% Oxygen with just a dash of Carbon Dioxide, Sulpfur Dioxide and don't forget a trace amount of Argon (very important).
I used to use Nitrogen and after about I year I stopped. Because I didn't see any performance benefits, nor stopped me from having to top up every month. Complete waste of time and money
Would oxygen permeate the rubber much more than nitrogen? Well, just think a bit before you fall for that... If it would, then you would end up with only the nitrogen left in the tire. Just fill it up with air again and you have 95% nitrogen. Wait for the oxygen to go away and fill it up with air again, and now you have 99% nitrogen. Have you filled your tires a few times to fix that falling pressure? If it was the oxygen escaping causing that, then your tires would already be filled with 100% nitrogen by now.
I think its also that continuous penetration of oxygen causes degradation of rubber, due to oxidation. But I don't know how much of that actually affects the life.
Size molecules: nitrogen: 292 picometeres oxygen:300 So... I never saw a tire degrade due to oxidation, tyres always out last the tread. At 20º air can hold less than 5%~ of water. This is a gimmick guys. : )
Excelent clip! Now, if you're a picky driver and have a performance car driven accordingly I still recommend inflating the tires with Nitrogen but make sure you do it form the very beginning (when you fit the new tires on the rims). The water vapours which are very often found in the air from air compressors have nowhere to go once they are pushed into the tire. We've also made a test by inflating the tires on one diagonal with air and on the other with Nitrogen. At the end of the test the pressure was 3.1 for air and 2.8BAR for the Nitrogen (starting from 2.4BAR), and this is a huge difference.
Victor Tarhon-Onu bugger off! It makes hardly any difference! The air is 78% nitrogen. That and you need to evacuate ALL of the air when you mount the tyre to the rim, then fill it with nitrogen to get 100% nitrogen fill. I call bullshit on this one sir. I'll stick to normal air with 78% nitrogen and comes totally free.
nitrogen filled tires IS a VERY good defense against tire slashers tho ... it will fucking toss them like a ragdoll and daze them enough for you to get there and beat the shit outta them.. defense
Isaac Karjala Equal internal pressures would cause equal expulsion force. Neither gas would stop someone from slashing a particular set of tires. Propane might be better at deterring future slashing. Nitrogen is relatively inert in a normal atmosphere, additional isn't absorbed into the human body at normal air pressure because it is in equilibrium, so could be easily inhaled while escaping with no problem. Though unlikely to happen, propane is flammable. Propane inhalation may create symptoms such as coughing, nausea, dizziness, nervousness, vomiting, increased heart rate, weakness, fever and light headedness, according to MedlinePlus. This could create an association between unpleasant after effects and the preceding activity.
I love how most moderators (Top Gear, Fifth Gear, Motor Trend Channel...) who are used to driving super cars or luxury cars enjoy driving cars like this Suzuki Swift or other clamped up bead up vehicles :D
As far as a gas goes, there is almost no difference between air and nitrogen. Air is already 80% nitrogen, and nitrogen has almost the same molecular weight as oxygen, 14 vs. 16. While the change in gas pressure from tire heating is small and identical between air and pure nitrogen, water vapor pressure increases about 3 psi. Dry nitrogen or dry air, will eliminate this change. If you double the pressure of 50% humidity air from 15psi to 30psi, it becomes 100% humidity air, and starts condensation. So the air in your tire is saturated with water. If you pump up your compressor to say 120 psi and allow to stand for a hour, the air in your tire will have 30psi/120psi, or 1/4 as much water.
Albinus81 You';re correct,. I had been thinking about nitrogen before I wrote it and it just slipped in. Farts do however contain a high concentration of nitrogen gas, often more than methane, because the Nitrogen that is swallowed from the air isn't absorbed by the body as easily as other gases. I've seen an estimate that an Average Fart= 59% nitrogen, 21% hydrogen, 9% carbon dioxide, 7% methane and 4% oxygen, ( the odor comes from 1% hydrogen sulfide.) The mixture is flammable.
My trucks TPMS used to put on a check light twice a year every summer/winter. When I got new tires I opted for the nitrogen fill to try it out. I haven't seen that check light since.
William Neigum The TPMS light wasn't triggered from loss of air. it was from the change in pressure due to temp. Apparently straight nitrogen isn't effected by temperature as much as air, even though air is mostly nitrogen. Either that or using a processed gas is just a way to inflate tires without introducing as much water vapor. Which we know definitely changes density according to temperature.
A good overall look, but a minor quibble about the testing: Although the vehicles in the test were equal enough to offer parity, the only real way to ensure A/B testing is meaningful would have been to use the same car with the different tire sets. Had that been done, the result may have been slightly different.
And what about the air that is in the tyre to start with? Unless the tyre is repeated filled with pure nitrogen and deflated again to purge the air, the tyre at 30psi will have one third air in it anyway.
They dont vaccum the tires befote adding the nitrogen so the proportions of nitrogen are not that different in the tires and also, following the gas rules they should all expand the same unless there is more water vapor in one
Yes, they open the valve to reduce the tire pressure to the atmospheric pressure, and then add nitrogen to get the right pressure. But sometimes they don't reduce the pressure before filling. The only away to ensure the tire have 100% nitrogen is to put it in the vacuum chamber.
***** You can reduce the pressure and fill the same tire 3 times with nitrogen to get 99% nitrogen. But most of the companies don't do that. I worked with airconditions, and they need a vacuum before the filling. But the tire is not an aircondition, it doesn't matter if it have 1% of other gases. I was wrong for writing that the tire need 100% nitrogen. I don't know what quantity does humidity contribute to the tire pressure, but I will contribute more than the others components of the air. The humidity will reduce the pressure if it condense to water when the tire is cold and increase if it evaporate when the tire is hot.
It doesn't matter if the tire have air or nitrogen. The humidity can contribute only if is a lot to condense when is cold. Normally the air doesn't have the quantity of water for this to be a problem, unless you fill it with air from a turkish bath.
Funny thing is, air doesn't really go through the rubber like they say, it goes through the bond between the rim and the tire. I had a tire for 2 years that kept its pressure because I cleanred the rim perfectly and applied tire sealant. Most often tires leak out over time because the technician installing the tire did not clean or apply sealent to the rim.
One of the reasons the tire with nitrogen had a higher PSI, was due to yes in lab conditions and Formula 1 garages, they have vacuum pumps, and ways of sealing tires to remove all contaminants before they introduce the nitrogen. The station they use is mixing nitrogen and whatever else is in the tire/rim space.
The tyre centres I've used that fill with nitrogen don't suck all the air out of the seated tyre (when it 'pops' onto the rim) first, they just inflate with the nitrogen. Basically, all the unpressurized air in the atmosphere will be in the tyre already, so filling it up with nitrogen is technically a waste of time, it only increases the percentage of nitrogen in the tyre. Use a specialist if you have a performance car. They'll suck all the air out of the tyre and it looks all concave. Then you know you have a stable tyre pressure.
I recently bought a 2004 Mazda 3 and it had tires with green caps instead of black. My dealer said the owner who traded it in bought brand new tires and they use nitrogen instead of air. It's been a while since I've had the car and the tire pressure is getting low. Should I keep the tires nitrogen, mix nitrogen and air, or just drain out the oxygen and go regular air.
Why use nitrogen? ... Having read the posts I will agree with most of what was stated. Now the real reason to use nitrogen would be the reduced moisture which can increase corrosion around the internal tire pressure sensor and poor choice of of metals used in the tire stem. If your tire doesn't have a sensor then I would not consider nitrogen. For those of us with internal sensors I would suggest dry air over the expense of nitrogen. The dollar saving solution (IMHO) is to put a desiccant dryer on our compressor outlets to remove moisture. I am looking for a multi-stage which would have the empty bulb with manual drain plus another bulb with desiccant granules. The granules work via adsorption as opposed to absorption which means moisture collects on the outside of the pellets. This means the pellets can be reused by merely placing them in an oven to vaporize the moisture off. Some dryers have another pellet that changes color to let you know when to replace or reclaim the pellets. Having experienced the corrosion issue mentioned with required replacing the internal tire pressure unit, I am convinced removing moisture is a good play whether it is nitrogen or dry air. The dry air units I have seen so far will likely cost $100 +/- depending on what I care to pay for and how much plastic is involved. I hope this helps someone.
Tire (tyre) stores here in Pennsylvania (USA) tout adding pure nitrogen to tires installed on your car. I guess it's just better to check your pressure weekly?
I do see a a couple of issues. From my knowledge, aluminum rims contract in colder weather. My mom's 08 Acadia rims are pretty bad in the winter as I have to refill some of the tires every two days. My 05 Mini Cooper convertible also has aluminum rims but the tires don't leak nearly as much. And also, how are you going to refill your tire if you're running on very low pressure? Because if you have to drive to your local auto shop or gas station to refill a tire with low pressure, you could risk damaging your rim and if you dent an aluminum rim, you have to replace the whole thing. I'd rather be able to refill my tires with our air compressor we have at home rather than have to drive somewhere to get it done and there are a handful of gas stations that have bad compressors on their own. Wouldn't it be a better idea to design cars to maintain their own tire pressure with an on-board air compressor?
+Jesse Hooton nah mate if you run nitrogen and the tire deflates you just inflate it with normal air. there will be no damage. you'll just have to purge it before running nitrogen in it. also idk if the guyz from fifth gear purged the tires before. i hope so.
i juz get my tyre pump up wit air everytime i went to fill up the tank. Thats like every 3 days or so. Tyre pressure kept in checked n its free. No need for nitrogen n wasting ur money. But of coz, do it wen ur tyres are cold.
High-performance tires hold maybe 20 grams each of regular air and switching to all-nitrogen drops this weight by 3% -- taking us down to 19.4 grams per tire. Considering a spinning tire / wheel /axel / brake assembly weighs ~80 pounds (36,000 grams) -- feel free to pump in nitrogen to remove 0.00008 of the weight of your spinning assembly. (And as others have pointed out -- you'll also need a large vacuum chamber to get rid of the air already in the tires.)
Only thing it'll help is maintaining pressure... I fill my tires with nitrogen for about 2 years now and I always check the pressure every 3/4 months. My tires have to be at a 32psi pressure, before on just air they would lose about 5~7psi every 4 months... now with nitrogen it's only 1~2psi.
Do you have a video based on Suspension? (Spring Suspension & Suspension Alone), and what substance to use in the suspension (Fluid, or Gas)? Fifth Gear
The amount of moisture in the air is what really makes the difference between nitrogen (dry) and regular air (sometimes very humid). In the past, using regular air, the tires would routinely go too low during the winter. Since using nitrogen, the tires remain very stable and trips to refill the tires every month in winter is a thing of the past. Nitrogen is used in aircraft tires and racing tires because there is a proven advantage in doing so.
I recently got a new car and just found out they were filled with nitrogen but after looking at a few vids I don't think I'll be getting them refilled with nitrogen because it look like it's proven to be a money getter. unless you are a racer I don't think you need nitrogen filled tires and heck after watching this racers probably don't really need it.
+Raequan Smith The racers need it. Good nitrogen fills (surprised they didn't get a bottle, that would be easy) are 100% moisture free due to the process of separating the gasses. That's really what the racers care about the most, keeping consistency as much as possible.
+aluisious the only way to get all of the air and moisture out is to vacuum pump the tires to -30psi. Nobody does this. If a tire has 0 tire pressure it is really at atmospheric pressure, about 14.7 psi(1bar) . So there still is air in it. Nitrogen fills are money makers. That's it.
Tracey Allen If you were really desperate to dry it out, repeated fills and drains of nitrogen would do it. I doubt a tire would stay on the rim under vacuum.
Tracey Allen You can't "get it all out" by pumping on it with a vacuum either. The real world is never perfect, you use a method which is effective to the degree required.
Finally a fair test showing real world application,but if you insist I don't mind taking your money you want nitrogen I be happy to fill it. 1 question what are you going to do when it does eventually leak out, drive around till you find a refill station or just put air in for free or pay for a top up?
+P Kuudsk I would have used the same car and maybe the same tires and just changed from air to nitrogen. You also need to do it double blind, the driver not knowing which tires are on the car... Frankly though, I think the difference isn't even measureable on a street car.
I guess a lot depends on the conditions that existed when the tyres were fitted to the rim. A certain amount of air will get trapped underneath during fitment and if it was on a very humid day that would mean a lot of moisture is present between the tyre and the rim. Trapped until the tyre is removed most likely. The perfect test would be to fit the tyres to the rims in a 100% nitrogen, clean room. (with the fitter wearing a hazmat suit and breathing apparatus)
Nitrogen is also called "spring gas" because it is used in pneumatic springs/dampers in assorted contraptions, this because it is more temperature stable expansion-wise than ordinary air; it expands and contracts less. Thus, the tyre-pressure will stay more stable over a wide temperature range.
°C Not really, nitrogen is an "ideal gas" in the thermodynamic sense and follows the ideal gas physic laws, just like oxygen (Boyle's;s law) Nitrogen is used in shocks for various reasons depending on the shock manufacturer: It is dry/pure (almost), no water vapor (which content varies in ambient air), another "dry" gas could be used. It does not react with the shock components (oil, gaskets, nitrogen bladder if separate, etc.). It is easier to get "dry" nitrogen commercially than to get ambient "dry" air. In a tire/tyre: If you increase tire/tyre temperature from 20°C cold to 40°C hot lap (very common condition in racing, not common in daily driving unless under-inflated and/or overloaded tire/tyre), the pressure will increase from ~32 psi cold to ~34 psi hot, there would only be a 0.088 psi difference between air inflation and nitrogen inflation pressures. That would be different in a shock as a shock can heat up a lot more. Bottom-line, there is no advantage to use nitrogen for daily driving. Ciao, L (FoMoCo engineering)
lancelot1953 For all practical purposes you are right (except perhaps on the "ideal gas" part, did you mean "real gas"?), there are some other differences but that would go more on the dynamics of things and will take a bit of *delving* and be more of a semantics debate ;p
***** Hi Kenzofeis, you have brought up a very good point. Nitrogen is a "real gas" but within the parameters/conditions that it is exposed to in automotive engineering (especially in tires/tyres conditions), we consider it as an "ideal gas" for the simplicity of calculations or comparison with other "inert" gases (in the case of shock absorber technology) i.e matching shocks to spring rates, resonance frequency, loads... It makes life a bit easier (at least at Ford ;-). Take care, Ciao, L
Heat generated in tires causes gases to expand, increasing pressure. Does not matter much which type of gases are in tires. At extremes of temperature, however (such as aircraft and racing tires) is does make a difference.
The biggest problem with the gas inside of tires is the WATER VAPOR. The water condenses when the tire becomes deeply chilled and it forms condensation inside the tire against the rim. This promotes corrosion on the side of the rim; especially along the bead. This leads to air leaks. The water separators on air compressors are sometimes removed, or not maintained properly, which leaves a lot of moisture in the air that you are using to fill your tires.
I have noticed on my GTR (a heavy and very fast car) that while driving on the track I do not need to keep letting air out of my tires to keep the pressure correct. For me it was a noticeable difference compared to people with 'regular' air in the tires. Would this be a make or brake ... no ... just a bit less hassle regulating the pressure. As Tiff said, it depends on the quality of stuff they pump in the tire. I'm sure many will sell you 'nitrogen' but it is ...
I just want to know how you purge the regular air out of a tubeless tyre before it inflates and seals at the bead. How could you know if they were all even, or if one had more nitrogen?
Some people will buy into anything. Love getting reamed out at work by customers who demand nitrogen in their tires when a - we don't have any b - it doesn't make a difference in your fucking 150hp, 200000km van
Many new cars come "filled" with nitrogen, this of course sucks if you live in a climate where you experience both hot humid summers and cold dry winters which can cause wider variation in tire pressure than normal air filled tires. Most people don't bother to look at their valve caps nor understand what the green paint means. Fill with normal air if you don't live in an area with consistent weather
The machine does vacuum the air out. It actually does it 2 times before filling. Im a service manager at a dealership, and think this is all a gimmick the industry has come up with.
~2psi is a different in F1 because the tires have a way wider track compare to any of road car even like the lambo. it is also slickier and the car go way faster than any of our road cars. these make the tires perform differently in race. but in road, there r no difference at all.
All I needed to see was that the dealer had "Nitrogen" on the add-on tag at $279. A tire gauge can be had for under $10, and my air-filled tires only lose pressure between routine 5000-mile rotation-balances if I have a puncture or a failed valve core. See also the ideal gas laws.
My first set of wheels I ever bought for my car had nitrogen fill on them from the company who sold and mounted the tires to them. Over the next 2 years on those tires I never had to fill or lower tire pressure between summer and winter. They stayed at 42 PSI for 2 years. Now as mentioned in the video I am almost positive that they had a good compressor for doing the nitrogen fill but I haven't been able to find a place were I live that would recommend it because of the issue of it not being 100% nitrogen.
+Krishnan Ravichandran No, possibly could increase the life, but very slightly due to lesser internal oxidation of the tire, but you wouldn't even notice because the tread would go way before the rubber fails from oxidation.
how come my old farm equipment tyres(light truck tyres) are still up after 15+ years, never put air in them. That was your old regular air compressor air! I also owned a tyre shop, I had customers with Nitrogen. I did not see any advantage. they still wore out their tyres at the same rate as everyone else. Under race conditions where things need to be worked out to the Nth degree pure Nitrogen can be used to give accurate tyre pressures at what ever temp. For us the normal road users it wont mater two hoots.
Iv opened a lot of tires up to only find any moisture at all in maybe one out of fifty tires. That's likely due to someone using unmaintained air compressor than it is from condensation within the tire. The average driver never really drives there tires hard enough to get them any hotter than the ambient temperature of the road.
The pressure exerted by water VAPOR (gaseous H2O) in a tire behaves exactly as that for diatomic oxygen or nitrogen in response to a temperature increase; described by the ideal gas law PV = nRT. The point of using nitrogen in racing cars is that it ensures that no LIQUID water gets into the tire. Liquid in a tire is very bad because the vapor pressure exerted by a liquid increases exponentially with temperature, not proportionately like in the case of a gas. The host here misses this point entirely; failing to distinguish the differences in response to temperature change between gas and liquid phases of matter. By using tanks of pressurized nitrogen to fill tires, race teams avoid the risk that LIQUID water from a poorly maintained air compressor system will get inside the tires. It is simply a quality control decision that ensures all of the matter entering the tire upon filling is in the gaseous state; guaranteeing that the pressure in said tire will increase predictably with temperature. Cool video, but the above description explains why your experimental results were not interesting.
Not to mention that neither they, nor apparently anyone else, seems able to appropriately interpret higher hot temp of the Nitrogen over the air.... The Nitrogen tire was able to sustain a higher pressure at temp than the air. Had they re-measured the pressure once the tires cooled, it would have reflected the aired tires coming down still Lower than the Nitrogen tires, due to the air lost when hot. Seems just ridiculously obvious that they couldn't figure it out -
Nitrogen filled tubeless tyre are good for the fuel economy and it pressure does not drop for a long time. Check whether the air filling station has an Nitrogen generator.
I found that my tyre pressure has been great for up to 2 years without a refill (summers), my winters are going through their first storage season (vehicle came with winters on had to replace due to the wear), I bought my summers back in 2018 and that's the last time I had them filled before this year which it was down 4-5 psi from my manufactures recommended range or 32 psi. I get N2 free from my Cost-Co service and a guarantee as long as I own my vehicle and all products were bought and installed ( mounted) by Cost-Co they'll service just about anything I bought till I need to replace the parts. If I had to buy the gas each time I wouldn't since I have a compressor at home and why bother paying a bit extra since the inconvenience isn't that bad, I with reg air I found my tyres need refilling every 5-7months (avg) of the year.
The first time I came to know about filling tyres with Nitrogen was 3 years ago for a long trip with my Uncle and His Suzuki Swift - after 3 years I am watching this video and that to with Swift again ❤
The Nitrogen filled tires increased in pressure more simply because the nitrogen doesn't escape. As the pressure increases in the tires, the oxygen can escape which reduces the pressure in the tire while all the nitrogen molecules stay put in the tire. Thus the N2 tires have a higher pressure at the end. DUH
FISHURMOMBALL The pressure increase is from the physical properties of the gas mixtures..Some more oxygen does escape though the rubber, but it is a tiny amount,not enough to account for the observed pressure rise during a short race.
I don't buy these results for 1 second. I've had 4 Mustang coyotes that I ran nitrogen in, and one 13 civic Si, with both vehicles filled with air the ride quality for sure was noticeable, it was very hard and bumpy, but once I deflated both vehicles of air and filled with nitrogen at work immediately the difference was noticed, soft, smooth, awesome ride!
The difference in compressive qualities between N2 and air are negligible. If there really was a difference, it was because of a difference in pressure, not because of your choice of gas.
+Tro SayJump Only in pure samples. In a mixture each gas expands proportionally based on its vapor pressure (partial pressure) much like a mixture of two liquids soluble in each other do not add up to the sum of initial volumes or how the volume of a solid solute and liquid solvent is not equal to the sum of both. PV=nRT Pressure (in atmospheres) Volume (in Litres) n = Moles of specific molecule (this is where partial pressure comes into play) R = Volumetric coefficient, a constant (0.082 atm*L/mole*K) Temperature (in Kelvin) To throw a wrench into this equation, literally, the IGL is only for rigid containers and tyres are not.
My cousin (less than 40 watts bulb) once told me the reason they use nitrogen is that it doesn't expand, but, having taken chemystery & physics, I knew this to be a fallacy, and called him on it that N2 expands & contracts like any other gas. That it's really only useful in a racecar makes sense, no need to pay a mechanic to fill up tyres with stuff that works the same in a passenger car as air.
***** Water vapour does change the expansion rate, but it's that a pure gas is more easily predicted. N2 doesn't leak out through the rubber like oxygen.
Nitrogen works for me. I put in 32 pounds per tire when my BRZ was new. 35,000 miles later I am at 31 pounds per tire. It is almost time for new tires!
Nitrogen is a SCAM. Check your tires every 2 weeks and rotate them every 4000 miles. Any shop that sells you nitrogen is selling "snake oil". (It also encourages people to neglect air pressure checks unless they live near the shop that sold them on Nitrogen.) Any reputable mechanic will admit Nitrogen fills are a SCAM.
No, we Dutch still check our bicycle tires and inflate them with regular air. Well, most of us do ;p I don't know how it is with car tires, because our country is not as big as yours.
Here's what's missing everyone. When your filling up your tire (or the garage is doing it) with Nitrogen they are not purging it. You start out with regular air when the tire is mounted, then you add nitrogen, the regular air is still there. Its not removed. Therefore your going from 20% to around 15%. So its a waist of money. A way for the garage to make money from stupid people with no common sense.
+Genes Your suppose to check you air pressure (as per your owners manual) every time you change your oil. If you park or store your car for an extended period of time then your going to check the pressure before you bring the car back in service. I have 3 BMW's one is in storage and the other two are driven by my wife and I. There's never any problems with air pressure drop, none in the past 40yrs on 20 plus cars. Also what is super important here is proper tire installation. The tire must only be put on the rim when the bead of the rim is super clean. A good garage will have a lube/sealer that is placed on the bead before install of the new tire. A good garage will if need be go over the bead in the rim with a scotch brite pad on a angle die grinder to make sure the bead is free of rubber. (because the old tire that was removed may have left torn pieces of itself on the bead.) So good install and regular checks are needed. And spending any more money is not.
based on this video one could infer that the nitrogen filled tyre has a higher rate of expansion regardless of if its not 100 percent pure. the other possibility is that the nitrogen filled tyre has more moisture in the nitrogen gas due to flaws in the equipment in removing that moisture
So basically you are more likely to get ripped off on a nitrogen fill up because there is no way of knowing without special equipment. Even if they are using pure nitrogen the job needs to be done a certain way which most of not all shops simply are not capable of.
Air will always seep out of the rubber slowly but being a larger molicule nitrogen will seep out slower...also since their is a lower or no moister content in nitrogen it helps prolong the life of your rims and also the life of your non rubber valve tpms sensors witch all tend to corrode over time...also in colder weather like here in Canada salt does a number on your tires and with the drastic drops in temp the nitrogen stays at a more constant pressure....my company owns a nitrogen filling Machine that hooks to all 4 tires and deflates the air our of the tire and then pumps nitrogen into the tire a few times in a row to slowly push all of the air out and making it 99.9 % nitrogen
I have seen my car tire pressure is maintained in nitrogen than air. Within a week my car tyre loses pressure with air filled. For nitrogen it was maintained from 15 days up to a month!
Here's a better test: Inflate two tires only ever using regular air. The other two only ever with the purest Nitrogen you can get from a tire center. Keep a log of the date and/or mileage you have to top up the two with regular air, and those with nitrogen, separately but side by side. Keep it up for the entire tread life of the tires. I have no experience with nitrogen, but after reading about it, I'd consider this test. Just on one vehicle until I know one way or the other whether it's useful.
You'll never get 100% nitrogen in a tire unless you mount the tires and rims in a vacuum chamber. But I just take mine to outer space just to make sure there is absolutely no air in them at all.
+Zohn Williams nitrogen chamber.
+GraveUypo So you mount the tires inside the nitrogen chamber?
DodgeCity111 Lol. I usually go to her too but she was busy that day.
+DodgeCity111 lmao I'm crying XD best comment ever!
its very easy to do if you are serious about it, you run 2 valve stems, you can just pressurize the tire with nitrogen until the tire is only filled up with it or to save some money run a vacuum pump on one stem then fill with nitrogen on the other...
Personally, I'd be more wondering if the nitrogen being sold in the garage was actually just compressed air.
Nitrogen in a tire is not a scam, otherwise it wouldn't be used in airplane tires and other special cases. However that is more for high pressure and temperature changes. In the cases of garages though... I think some investigations by proper media should be done. (If there are any left)
Edward Weagle Aircraft tires have 200psi and are exposed for +50 to - 65c, Not relevant for car tires.
+oistein74... that is what I said...
Ok, well I do racing with my car and I've tested both N2 and normal air. The pressure rise with N2 is higher than air and hence it's less suitable for racing. Snakeoil
oistein74 Shouldn't CO2 be even a larger molecule than O2 ??
CO2 is commonly available, Oxygen and Water-free. . .
the only noticeable difference
is that nitrogen is more expensive lol
you pay for air ????
You pay for the service
If the Nitrogen was cheaper I bet the garages would be recommening air!
Initial Yeet In India its FREE
It's free where I buy my tires. Probably because they are not really using nitrogen anyway.
Mine's filled with radon - nice green glow at night so I can find the car easily.
Think about this as follows: Every time the tyre loses pressure, it loses mostly oxygen. And everytime you have to top up, you fill in 78% nitrogen when pumping up with plain air. Consequently, the proportion of nitrogen in the tyre will increase over time anyway.
We use nitrogen in aircraft tires. But that is mainly because of brake and wheel fires. A lot of aircraft wheels are made with magnesium which burns very hot and if plain air is in the tire it would increase the fires intensity. I've seen quite a few tire and brake fires and it makes sense to me. As far as maintaining pressure we always checked tire pressures on daily and turnaround inspections.
Even with Oxygen leaking through the rubber and topping up the pressure you're heading towards a Nitrogen filled tyre.
Fill with air initially and 21% (the O2) eventually leaks out.
Replace that lost gas with more air and you're putting 78% nitrogen back in place of what was O2.
So after one top-up you've now only got (0.21 * 0.21)*100 = 4.4% O2 in your tyre.
This is a brilliant point, mate
My current tires are manufactured in Canada, and I live in the state of Iowa in the USA. So every time I need to air my tires I have to wait for a Canadian cool front to blow in. Of course my compressor is made in China and doesn't like pumping anything but Chinese air. Dam world economy!!!!!
Since Oxygen leaks out, a few Air fills should eventually turn the tires air to near Pure Nitrogen.
Logically You are completely right and we do not need Special Nitrogen in tyres.
in India they take around 4$ for this and any topup they charge 50 cents. Holy crap
+Hemang. Shah. dude drive to your nearest bp pump. most have it coz its a norm for them and they do a topup for free
+Hemang. Shah. don't know where you live in India but in Chandigarh, first time they charge you Rs.40(less than $1) for all tires(which includes tire polish) and afterwards topup is free.
+Veenu Passi
Great
not in Mumbai
and still not sure of Pure dried Nitrogen
Hemang. Shah. you can always visit Chandigarh top it up and return back haha JK
but still would be hell of a ride.. lol
Identical laptimes... What an amazing consistent racing driver.
Lol. Why not at least use the same vehicle.
Loved that point at the end! Say it how it is!.... I check my Motorbikes tyre pressure every monday morning as a routine check.. Some may say that isn't often enough others might say it's a bit overkill... but i prefer routine and every Monday along with chain slack, brakefluid/brakepad wear, chain condition ect ect....
I've used it for years and the pressure almost never varies compared to air filled tyres which go down constantly... It's well worth it
I agree with Tiff. I've been using his special mixture of gases for years - about 78% Nitrogen, 21% Oxygen with just a dash of Carbon Dioxide, Sulpfur Dioxide and don't forget a trace amount of Argon (very important).
this all bullshit ..I fill my tyre with water..
+Tyler D.I use hose pipe to put pressurized water in Tyre. How do u put sand in Tyre?
I use vacuum
LOL
+Animesh Kumar Punch hole, fill, plug hole?
I fill mine with urine,LOL
Air is mostly Nitrogen anyways, unless youre racing its a waste of money to get nitrogen
Actually, if you fill it with gasoline, you will gain a lot of horsepower.
Add flame decals for a bigger boost.
I used to use Nitrogen and after about I year I stopped. Because I didn't see any performance benefits, nor stopped me from having to top up every month. Complete waste of time and money
+Noneof Urbusiness Here in the tropics where temperatures fluctuates like a bitch on her period, it is pretty useful.
koushinproductions i live in the tropics.
Also there are two valve stems on race-spec wheels so you can force all the air out one side while filling it with nitrogen at the same time.
i run a garage that pumps tyres with nitrogen, heres the trick, i dont use nitrogen i use air
+A Cat Here is the fraud more likely
+minero1986
What did u expect from a cat running a garage?
what does air contain?
+A Cat nitrogen
Kobi Eunice Bordonada
aaaaaaa thankyou
Would oxygen permeate the rubber much more than nitrogen? Well, just think a bit before you fall for that...
If it would, then you would end up with only the nitrogen left in the tire. Just fill it up with air again and you have 95% nitrogen. Wait for the oxygen to go away and fill it up with air again, and now you have 99% nitrogen.
Have you filled your tires a few times to fix that falling pressure? If it was the oxygen escaping causing that, then your tires would already be filled with 100% nitrogen by now.
lol.... good one mate. gonna try it :P
exactly
I think its also that continuous penetration of oxygen causes degradation of rubber, due to oxidation. But I don't know how much of that actually affects the life.
Size molecules:
nitrogen: 292 picometeres
oxygen:300
So...
I never saw a tire degrade due to oxidation, tyres always out last the tread.
At 20º air can hold less than 5%~ of water.
This is a gimmick guys. : )
The answer is simple: It doesn't. At least not enough to cause sufficient damage to shorten the life of a 60,000 or 80,000 mile tire.
Excelent clip! Now, if you're a picky driver and have a performance car driven accordingly I still recommend inflating the tires with Nitrogen but make sure you do it form the very beginning (when you fit the new tires on the rims). The water vapours which are very often found in the air from air compressors have nowhere to go once they are pushed into the tire. We've also made a test by inflating the tires on one diagonal with air and on the other with Nitrogen. At the end of the test the pressure was 3.1 for air and 2.8BAR for the Nitrogen (starting from 2.4BAR), and this is a huge difference.
Victor Tarhon-Onu bugger off! It makes hardly any difference! The air is 78% nitrogen. That and you need to evacuate ALL of the air when you mount the tyre to the rim, then fill it with nitrogen to get 100% nitrogen fill. I call bullshit on this one sir. I'll stick to normal air with 78% nitrogen and comes totally free.
nitrogen filled tires IS a VERY good defense against tire slashers tho ... it will fucking toss them like a ragdoll and daze them enough for you to get there and beat the shit outta them.. defense
Maccan96 loololololololololol that is soo dangerous its hilarious XD.
Propane might be a better deterent.
No it won't.
Isaac Karjala
Equal internal pressures would cause equal expulsion force. Neither gas would stop someone from slashing a particular set of tires. Propane might be better at deterring future slashing.
Nitrogen is relatively inert in a normal atmosphere, additional isn't absorbed into the human body at normal air pressure because it is in equilibrium, so could be easily inhaled while escaping with no problem.
Though unlikely to happen, propane is flammable. Propane inhalation may create symptoms such as coughing, nausea, dizziness, nervousness, vomiting, increased heart rate, weakness, fever and light headedness, according to MedlinePlus.
This could create an association between unpleasant after effects and the preceding activity.
+bounchofbeaners Or fill 'em with hydrogen or helium and it'll just kill 'em outright =P
I love how most moderators (Top Gear, Fifth Gear, Motor Trend Channel...) who are used to driving super cars or luxury cars enjoy driving cars like this Suzuki Swift or other clamped up bead up vehicles :D
ltjakekhan If you can't have fun with 90hp, you can't have fun with 900hp
samin90 ^This. Anyone can corner in a 911, not everyone can make a Swift turn like Tiff.
ltjakekhan
cars like the Swift , the Ford Fiesta , make driving fun .
As far as a gas goes, there is almost no difference between air and nitrogen. Air is already 80% nitrogen, and nitrogen has almost the same molecular weight as oxygen, 14 vs. 16. While the change in gas pressure from tire heating is small and identical between air and pure nitrogen, water vapor pressure increases about 3 psi. Dry nitrogen or dry air, will eliminate this change. If you double the pressure of 50% humidity air from 15psi to 30psi, it becomes 100% humidity air, and starts condensation. So the air in your tire is saturated with water. If you pump up your compressor to say 120 psi and allow to stand for a hour, the air in your tire will have 30psi/120psi, or 1/4 as much water.
I use my farts to fill up my tires,works good.
lol
Methane is a flammable nitrogen hydrocarbon compound. Very inflamatory remark.
pssst3 No nitrogen in CH4 mate ;)
Albinus81 You';re correct,. I had been thinking about nitrogen before I wrote it and it just slipped in. Farts do however contain a high concentration of nitrogen gas, often more than methane, because the Nitrogen that is swallowed from the air isn't absorbed by the body as easily as other gases. I've seen an estimate that an Average Fart= 59% nitrogen, 21% hydrogen, 9% carbon dioxide, 7% methane and 4% oxygen, ( the odor comes from 1% hydrogen sulfide.) The mixture is flammable.
+pssst3 Methane is a hydrocarbon. N2 is not related to CH4 at all. I studied A level Chemistry so I do know.
My trucks TPMS used to put on a check light twice a year every summer/winter.
When I got new tires I opted for the nitrogen fill to try it out. I haven't seen that check light since.
There is no way you could lose that much air in a tire in 6 months
William Neigum The TPMS light wasn't triggered from loss of air. it was from the change in pressure due to temp.
Apparently straight nitrogen isn't effected by temperature as much as air, even though air is mostly nitrogen. Either that or using a processed gas is just a way to inflate tires without introducing as much water vapor. Which we know definitely changes density according to temperature.
A good overall look, but a minor quibble about the testing: Although the vehicles in the test were equal enough to offer parity, the only real way to ensure A/B testing is meaningful would have been to use the same car with the different tire sets. Had that been done, the result may have been slightly different.
My tires are filled with concrete.
:D
😂😂
And what about the air that is in the tyre to start with? Unless the tyre is repeated filled with pure nitrogen and deflated again to purge the air, the tyre at 30psi will have one third air in it anyway.
So wont your tires eventually fill with a higher and higher percentage of Nitrogen?
They dont vaccum the tires befote adding the nitrogen so the proportions of nitrogen are not that different in the tires and also, following the gas rules they should all expand the same unless there is more water vapor in one
Yes, they open the valve to reduce the tire pressure to the atmospheric pressure, and then add nitrogen to get the right pressure. But sometimes they don't reduce the pressure before filling.
The only away to ensure the tire have 100% nitrogen is to put it in the vacuum chamber.
even if the tire is vaccummed, it wont change a thing according to gas physics. And yes they would need to vaccum them all
***** You can reduce the pressure and fill the same tire 3 times with nitrogen to get 99% nitrogen. But most of the companies don't do that.
I worked with airconditions, and they need a vacuum before the filling. But the tire is not an aircondition, it doesn't matter if it have 1% of other gases. I was wrong for writing that the tire need 100% nitrogen.
I don't know what quantity does humidity contribute to the tire pressure, but I will contribute more than the others components of the air. The humidity will reduce the pressure if it condense to water when the tire is cold and increase if it evaporate when the tire is hot.
It doesn't matter if the tire have air or nitrogen. The humidity can contribute only if is a lot to condense when is cold. Normally the air doesn't have the quantity of water for this to be a problem, unless you fill it with air from a turkish bath.
Funny thing is, air doesn't really go through the rubber like they say, it goes through the bond between the rim and the tire. I had a tire for 2 years that kept its pressure because I cleanred the rim perfectly and applied tire sealant. Most often tires leak out over time because the technician installing the tire did not clean or apply sealent to the rim.
One of the reasons the tire with nitrogen had a higher PSI, was due to yes in lab conditions and Formula 1 garages, they have vacuum pumps, and ways of sealing tires to remove all contaminants before they introduce the nitrogen. The station they use is mixing nitrogen and whatever else is in the tire/rim space.
The tyre centres I've used that fill with nitrogen don't suck all the air out of the seated tyre (when it 'pops' onto the rim) first, they just inflate with the nitrogen. Basically, all the unpressurized air in the atmosphere will be in the tyre already, so filling it up with nitrogen is technically a waste of time, it only increases the percentage of nitrogen in the tyre. Use a specialist if you have a performance car. They'll suck all the air out of the tyre and it looks all concave. Then you know you have a stable tyre pressure.
I recently bought a 2004 Mazda 3 and it had tires with green caps instead of black. My dealer said the owner who traded it in bought brand new tires and they use nitrogen instead of air. It's been a while since I've had the car and the tire pressure is getting low. Should I keep the tires nitrogen, mix nitrogen and air, or just drain out the oxygen and go regular air.
"if you are no checking your pressure regularly, you shouldn't be on the road at all" golden words!
Why use nitrogen? ... Having read the posts I will agree with most of what was stated. Now the real reason to use nitrogen would be the reduced moisture which can increase corrosion around the internal tire pressure sensor and poor choice of of metals used in the tire stem. If your tire doesn't have a sensor then I would not consider nitrogen. For those of us with internal sensors I would suggest dry air over the expense of nitrogen. The dollar saving solution (IMHO) is to put a desiccant dryer on our compressor outlets to remove moisture. I am looking for a multi-stage which would have the empty bulb with manual drain plus another bulb with desiccant granules. The granules work via adsorption as opposed to absorption which means moisture collects on the outside of the pellets. This means the pellets can be reused by merely placing them in an oven to vaporize the moisture off. Some dryers have another pellet that changes color to let you know when to replace or reclaim the pellets. Having experienced the corrosion issue mentioned with required replacing the internal tire pressure unit, I am convinced removing moisture is a good play whether it is nitrogen or dry air. The dry air units I have seen so far will likely cost $100 +/- depending on what I care to pay for and how much plastic is involved. I hope this helps someone.
Tire (tyre) stores here in Pennsylvania (USA) tout adding pure nitrogen to tires installed on your car. I guess it's just better to check your pressure weekly?
I do see a a couple of issues. From my knowledge, aluminum rims contract in colder weather. My mom's 08 Acadia rims are pretty bad in the winter as I have to refill some of the tires every two days. My 05 Mini Cooper convertible also has aluminum rims but the tires don't leak nearly as much. And also, how are you going to refill your tire if you're running on very low pressure? Because if you have to drive to your local auto shop or gas station to refill a tire with low pressure, you could risk damaging your rim and if you dent an aluminum rim, you have to replace the whole thing. I'd rather be able to refill my tires with our air compressor we have at home rather than have to drive somewhere to get it done and there are a handful of gas stations that have bad compressors on their own. Wouldn't it be a better idea to design cars to maintain their own tire pressure with an on-board air compressor?
+Jesse Hooton nah mate if you run nitrogen and the tire deflates you just inflate it with normal air. there will be no damage. you'll just have to purge it before running nitrogen in it. also idk if the guyz from fifth gear purged the tires before. i hope so.
i juz get my tyre pump up wit air everytime i went to fill up the tank. Thats like every 3 days or so. Tyre pressure kept in checked n its free. No need for nitrogen n wasting ur money. But of coz, do it wen ur tyres are cold.
High-performance tires hold maybe 20 grams each of regular air and switching to all-nitrogen drops this weight by 3% -- taking us down to 19.4 grams per tire. Considering a spinning tire / wheel /axel / brake assembly weighs ~80 pounds (36,000 grams) -- feel free to pump in nitrogen to remove 0.00008 of the weight of your spinning assembly. (And as others have pointed out -- you'll also need a large vacuum chamber to get rid of the air already in the tires.)
Only thing it'll help is maintaining pressure... I fill my tires with nitrogen for about 2 years now and I always check the pressure every 3/4 months. My tires have to be at a 32psi pressure, before on just air they would lose about 5~7psi every 4 months... now with nitrogen it's only 1~2psi.
Do you have a video based on Suspension? (Spring Suspension & Suspension Alone), and what substance to use in the suspension (Fluid, or Gas)? Fifth Gear
What is the difference in weight for same tyre with same air pressure for nitrogen and air???
The amount of moisture in the air is what really makes the difference between nitrogen (dry) and regular air (sometimes very humid). In the past, using regular air, the tires would routinely go too low during the winter.
Since using nitrogen, the tires remain very stable and trips to refill the tires every month in winter is a thing of the past.
Nitrogen is used in aircraft tires and racing tires because there is a proven advantage in doing so.
Jason Plato achieved a 48 second lap when driving a honda civic type r mugen RR. the swift is quicker ??? fifth gear explain please.....
I recently got a new car and just found out they were filled with nitrogen but after looking at a few vids I don't think I'll be getting them refilled with nitrogen because it look like it's proven to be a money getter. unless you are a racer I don't think you need nitrogen filled tires and heck after watching this racers probably don't really need it.
+Raequan Smith The racers need it. Good nitrogen fills (surprised they didn't get a bottle, that would be easy) are 100% moisture free due to the process of separating the gasses. That's really what the racers care about the most, keeping consistency as much as possible.
+aluisious the only way to get all of the air and moisture out is to vacuum pump the tires to -30psi. Nobody does this. If a tire has 0 tire pressure it is really at atmospheric pressure, about 14.7 psi(1bar) . So there still is air in it. Nitrogen fills are money makers. That's it.
Tracey Allen If you were really desperate to dry it out, repeated fills and drains of nitrogen would do it. I doubt a tire would stay on the rim under vacuum.
aluisious that is the point. You could never get it all out. It would be diluted. It's just a scam.
Tracey Allen You can't "get it all out" by pumping on it with a vacuum either. The real world is never perfect, you use a method which is effective to the degree required.
Finally a fair test showing real world application,but if you insist I don't mind taking your money you want nitrogen I be happy to fill it. 1 question what are you going to do when it does eventually leak out, drive around till you find a refill station or just put air in for free or pay for a top up?
+P Kuudsk I would have used the same car and maybe the same tires and just changed from air to nitrogen. You also need to do it double blind, the driver not knowing which tires are on the car... Frankly though, I think the difference isn't even measureable on a street car.
I guess a lot depends on the conditions that existed when the tyres were fitted to the rim. A certain amount of air will get trapped underneath during fitment and if it was on a very humid day that would mean a lot of moisture is present between the tyre and the rim. Trapped until the tyre is removed most likely. The perfect test would be to fit the tyres to the rims in a 100% nitrogen, clean room. (with the fitter wearing a hazmat suit and breathing apparatus)
Nitrogen is also called "spring gas" because it is used in pneumatic springs/dampers in assorted contraptions, this because it is more temperature stable expansion-wise than ordinary air; it expands and contracts less.
Thus, the tyre-pressure will stay more stable over a wide temperature range.
°C
Not really, nitrogen is an "ideal gas" in the thermodynamic sense and follows the ideal gas physic laws, just like oxygen (Boyle's;s law)
Nitrogen is used in shocks for various reasons depending on the shock manufacturer:
It is dry/pure (almost), no water vapor (which content varies in ambient air), another "dry" gas could be used.
It does not react with the shock components (oil, gaskets, nitrogen bladder if separate, etc.).
It is easier to get "dry" nitrogen commercially than to get ambient "dry" air.
In a tire/tyre: If you increase tire/tyre temperature from 20°C cold to 40°C hot lap (very common condition in racing, not common in daily driving unless under-inflated and/or overloaded tire/tyre), the pressure will increase from ~32 psi cold to ~34 psi hot, there would only be a 0.088 psi difference between air inflation and nitrogen inflation pressures. That would be different in a shock as a shock can heat up a lot more.
Bottom-line, there is no advantage to use nitrogen for daily driving.
Ciao, L (FoMoCo engineering)
lancelot1953
For all practical purposes you are right (except perhaps on the "ideal gas" part, did you mean "real gas"?), there are some other differences but that would go more on the dynamics of things and will take a bit of *delving* and be more of a semantics debate ;p
***** Hi Kenzofeis, you have brought up a very good point. Nitrogen is a "real gas" but within the parameters/conditions that it is exposed to in automotive engineering (especially in tires/tyres conditions), we consider it as an "ideal gas" for the simplicity of calculations or comparison with other "inert" gases (in the case of shock absorber technology) i.e matching shocks to spring rates, resonance frequency, loads... It makes life a bit easier (at least at Ford ;-). Take care, Ciao, L
Heat generated in tires causes gases to expand, increasing pressure. Does not matter much which type of gases are in tires. At extremes of temperature, however (such as aircraft and racing tires) is does make a difference.
The biggest problem with the gas inside of tires is the WATER VAPOR. The water condenses when the tire becomes deeply chilled and it forms condensation inside the tire against the rim. This promotes corrosion on the side of the rim; especially along the bead. This leads to air leaks. The water separators on air compressors are sometimes removed, or not maintained properly, which leaves a lot of moisture in the air that you are using to fill your tires.
I have noticed on my GTR (a heavy and very fast car) that while driving on the track I do not need to keep letting air out of my tires to keep the pressure correct. For me it was a noticeable difference compared to people with 'regular' air in the tires.
Would this be a make or brake ... no ... just a bit less hassle regulating the pressure.
As Tiff said, it depends on the quality of stuff they pump in the tire. I'm sure many will sell you 'nitrogen' but it is ...
i just watched your video in spa belgium. Very nice driving.
I just want to know how you purge the regular air out of a tubeless tyre before it inflates and seals at the bead. How could you know if they were all even, or if one had more nitrogen?
Some people will buy into anything. Love getting reamed out at work by customers who demand nitrogen in their tires when
a - we don't have any
b - it doesn't make a difference in your fucking 150hp, 200000km van
Well done, without making a short story long.
Many new cars come "filled" with nitrogen, this of course sucks if you live in a climate where you experience both hot humid summers and cold dry winters which can cause wider variation in tire pressure than normal air filled tires. Most people don't bother to look at their valve caps nor understand what the green paint means. Fill with normal air if you don't live in an area with consistent weather
how did they get the oxygen out of the uniflated tire?
I just want to know if my standard pressure gauge is still accurate and do I still run the factory recommended tire pressure with nitrogen.
why dont vacuum. out all the air inside the tyre... then only fill it with n2?
Exactly I would think so..the tyre has air before filling with nitrogen.
The machine does vacuum the air out. It actually does it 2 times before filling. Im a service manager at a dealership, and think this is all a gimmick the industry has come up with.
Matthew Lee I wouldn't think that the tire would stay mounted and sealed against the rim if it had a complete vacuum inside.
~2psi is a different in F1 because the tires have a way wider track compare to any of road car even like the lambo. it is also slickier and the car go way faster than any of our road cars. these make the tires perform differently in race. but in road, there r no difference at all.
jamesgjt Thanks for reading the brochure and spitting the same information back
All I needed to see was that the dealer had "Nitrogen" on the add-on tag at $279. A tire gauge can be had for under $10, and my air-filled tires only lose pressure between routine 5000-mile rotation-balances if I have a puncture or a failed valve core. See also the ideal gas laws.
My first set of wheels I ever bought for my car had nitrogen fill on them from the company who sold and mounted the tires to them. Over the next 2 years on those tires I never had to fill or lower tire pressure between summer and winter. They stayed at 42 PSI for 2 years. Now as mentioned in the video I am almost positive that they had a good compressor for doing the nitrogen fill but I haven't been able to find a place were I live that would recommend it because of the issue of it not being 100% nitrogen.
42 PSI? Isn't it too much for a car?
how can I fill my tyres with nitrogen at home? do I have to buy tanks of it?
Have a look at the video "Top 10 reasons not to put nitrogen in your tyres"
HAH, Good old AutoExpert
Tiff's engineer side comes out (yes. he is a real life Engineer and not just a race car driver).
What about durability? Will the use of Nitrogen reduce tire life?
+Krishnan Ravichandran No, possibly could increase the life, but very slightly due to lesser internal oxidation of the tire, but you wouldn't even notice because the tread would go way before the rubber fails from oxidation.
I was wondering what is the tyre temperature of both after running on car?
What would filling tires with helium do to the car's performance if it works in the first place
how come my old farm equipment tyres(light truck tyres) are still up after 15+ years, never put air in them. That was your old regular air compressor air!
I also owned a tyre shop, I had customers with Nitrogen. I did not see any advantage. they still wore out their tyres at the same rate as everyone else.
Under race conditions where things need to be worked out to the Nth degree pure Nitrogen can be used to give accurate tyre pressures at what ever temp. For us the normal road users it wont mater two hoots.
whoops wifes login, Lol
Lisa Law
You should have kept that secret, not enough female gearheads around those parts...
Lisa Law
Hahaha
Iv opened a lot of tires up to only find any moisture at all in maybe one out of fifty tires. That's likely due to someone using unmaintained air compressor than it is from condensation within the tire. The average driver never really drives there tires hard enough to get them any hotter than the ambient temperature of the road.
The pressure exerted by water VAPOR (gaseous H2O) in a tire behaves exactly as that for diatomic oxygen or nitrogen in response to a temperature increase; described by the ideal gas law PV = nRT. The point of using nitrogen in racing cars is that it ensures that no LIQUID water gets into the tire. Liquid in a tire is very bad because the vapor pressure exerted by a liquid increases exponentially with temperature, not proportionately like in the case of a gas. The host here misses this point entirely; failing to distinguish the differences in response to temperature change between gas and liquid phases of matter.
By using tanks of pressurized nitrogen to fill tires, race teams avoid the risk that LIQUID water from a poorly maintained air compressor system will get inside the tires. It is simply a quality control decision that ensures all of the matter entering the tire upon filling is in the gaseous state; guaranteeing that the pressure in said tire will increase predictably with temperature.
Cool video, but the above description explains why your experimental results were not interesting.
Not to mention that neither they, nor apparently anyone else, seems able to appropriately interpret higher hot temp of the Nitrogen over the air.... The Nitrogen tire was able to sustain a higher pressure at temp than the air. Had they re-measured the pressure once the tires cooled, it would have reflected the aired tires coming down still Lower than the Nitrogen tires, due to the air lost when hot. Seems just ridiculously obvious that they couldn't figure it out -
One of the most lucrative scam ever invented.
Nitrogen filled tubeless tyre are good for the fuel economy and it pressure does not drop for a long time. Check whether the air filling station has an Nitrogen generator.
I found that my tyre pressure has been great for up to 2 years without a refill (summers), my winters are going through their first storage season (vehicle came with winters on had to replace due to the wear), I bought my summers back in 2018 and that's the last time I had them filled before this year which it was down 4-5 psi from my manufactures recommended range or 32 psi. I get N2 free from my Cost-Co service and a guarantee as long as I own my vehicle and all products were bought and installed ( mounted) by Cost-Co they'll service just about anything I bought till I need to replace the parts.
If I had to buy the gas each time I wouldn't since I have a compressor at home and why bother paying a bit extra since the inconvenience isn't that bad, I with reg air I found my tyres need refilling every 5-7months (avg) of the year.
if I put helium in my tires will it lower my gas mileage?
The first time I came to know about filling tyres with Nitrogen was 3 years ago for a long trip with my Uncle and His Suzuki Swift - after 3 years I am watching this video and that to with Swift again ❤
The Nitrogen filled tires increased in pressure more simply because the nitrogen doesn't escape. As the pressure increases in the tires, the oxygen can escape which reduces the pressure in the tire while all the nitrogen molecules stay put in the tire. Thus the N2 tires have a higher pressure at the end. DUH
FISHURMOMBALL lol good try but the oxygen doesn't escape that quickly
FISHURMOMBALL The pressure increase is from the physical properties of the gas mixtures..Some more oxygen does escape though the rubber, but it is a tiny amount,not enough to account for the observed pressure rise during a short race.
I find it funny that the conclusion from seeing the higher temperature was that it must not have been pure nitrogen. What was he testing for?
I don't buy these results for 1 second. I've had 4 Mustang coyotes that I ran nitrogen in, and one 13 civic Si, with both vehicles filled with air the ride quality for sure was noticeable, it was very hard and bumpy, but once I deflated both vehicles of air and filled with nitrogen at work immediately the difference was noticed, soft, smooth, awesome ride!
Why would there be any difference in ride? The gases involved will not effect ride just the amount/presser of the gas.
inlineschool
Nitrogen will have a different stiffness to oxygen.
That said, I think it's a waste of money.
The difference in compressive qualities between N2 and air are negligible. If there really was a difference, it was because of a difference in pressure, not because of your choice of gas.
Boyles ? don't all gasses expand equally based in relation to thermal expansion?
+Tro SayJump Only in pure samples. In a mixture each gas expands proportionally based on its vapor pressure (partial pressure) much like a mixture of two liquids soluble in each other do not add up to the sum of initial volumes or how the volume of a solid solute and liquid solvent is not equal to the sum of both.
PV=nRT
Pressure (in atmospheres)
Volume (in Litres)
n = Moles of specific molecule (this is where partial pressure comes into play)
R = Volumetric coefficient, a constant (0.082 atm*L/mole*K)
Temperature (in Kelvin)
To throw a wrench into this equation, literally, the IGL is only for rigid containers and tyres are not.
Shut up nerd
how much is that in bar?
Nitrogen in your tyres is a tyreseller scam.
The size difference between O2 and N2 is miniscule (300 to 293)
...blind test (not knowing wich car has the nitrogen) would be more objective when comparing performance...:/
My cousin (less than 40 watts bulb) once told me the reason they use nitrogen is that it doesn't expand, but, having taken chemystery & physics, I knew this to be a fallacy, and called him on it that N2 expands & contracts like any other gas.
That it's really only useful in a racecar makes sense, no need to pay a mechanic to fill up tyres with stuff that works the same in a passenger car as air.
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Water vapour does change the expansion rate, but it's that a pure gas is more easily predicted. N2 doesn't leak out through the rubber like oxygen.
i don't think it is possible to fill up the tires with 100% nitrogen. because when you put the tiers on the rim there is already some air there.
+eduardoig17 You have to put them inside a vacuum chamber and then fill them while inside.
why didn't you text the tire comment after getting them"nitrogen" filled? it appears they may have not filled them with anything different
and do they purge the normal air before filling with nitrogen? otherwise it will be about 1/3rd volume of normal air anyway!
Nitrogen works for me. I put in 32 pounds per tire when my BRZ was new. 35,000 miles later I am at 31 pounds per tire. It is almost time for new tires!
In The Netherlands they do this almost standard with bicycle tires if you buy a new bicycle.
Nitrogen is a SCAM. Check your tires every 2 weeks and rotate them every 4000 miles. Any shop that sells you nitrogen is selling "snake oil". (It also encourages people to neglect air pressure checks unless they live near the shop that sold them on Nitrogen.) Any reputable mechanic will admit Nitrogen fills are a SCAM.
No, we Dutch still check our bicycle tires and inflate them with regular air. Well, most of us do ;p
I don't know how it is with car tires, because our country is not as big as yours.
Here's what's missing everyone. When your filling up your tire (or the garage is doing it) with Nitrogen they are not purging it. You start out with regular air when the tire is mounted, then you add nitrogen, the regular air is still there. Its not removed. Therefore your going from 20% to around 15%. So its a waist of money. A way for the garage to make money from stupid people with no common sense.
+Genes Your suppose to check you air pressure (as per your owners manual) every time you change your oil. If you park or store your car for an extended period of time then your going to check the pressure before you bring the car back in service. I have 3 BMW's one is in storage and the other two are driven by my wife and I. There's never any problems with air pressure drop, none in the past 40yrs on 20 plus cars. Also what is super important here is proper tire installation. The tire must only be put on the rim when the bead of the rim is super clean. A good garage will have a lube/sealer that is placed on the bead before install of the new tire. A good garage will if need be go over the bead in the rim with a scotch brite pad on a angle die grinder to make sure the bead is free of rubber. (because the old tire that was removed may have left torn pieces of itself on the bead.) So good install and regular checks are needed. And spending any more money is not.
why wouldnt you just change the tires on the last test instead of changing the whole car.
based on this video one could infer that the nitrogen filled tyre has a higher rate of expansion regardless of if its not 100 percent pure. the other possibility is that the nitrogen filled tyre has more moisture in the nitrogen gas due to flaws in the equipment in removing that moisture
under high heat cant the O2 content also cause internal wear?
So basically you are more likely to get ripped off on a nitrogen fill up because there is no way of knowing without special equipment. Even if they are using pure nitrogen the job needs to be done a certain way which most of not all shops simply are not capable of.
Lol I love that last line, not enough people these days know how to check their tire pressure anymore..
i use helium, more bounce, lighter weight and helps my cars MPG and braking/acceleration
Air will always seep out of the rubber slowly but being a larger molicule nitrogen will seep out slower...also since their is a lower or no moister content in nitrogen it helps prolong the life of your rims and also the life of your non rubber valve tpms sensors witch all tend to corrode over time...also in colder weather like here in Canada salt does a number on your tires and with the drastic drops in temp the nitrogen stays at a more constant pressure....my company owns a nitrogen filling Machine that hooks to all 4 tires and deflates the air our of the tire and then pumps nitrogen into the tire a few times in a row to slowly push all of the air out and making it 99.9 % nitrogen
If the pressure increases by temperature in nitrogen filled tyre so why don't they burst ?
I have seen my car tire pressure is maintained in nitrogen than air. Within a week my car tyre loses pressure with air filled. For nitrogen it was maintained from 15 days up to a month!
Here's a better test: Inflate two tires only ever using regular air. The other two only ever with the purest Nitrogen you can get from a tire center. Keep a log of the date and/or mileage you have to top up the two with regular air, and those with nitrogen, separately but side by side. Keep it up for the entire tread life of the tires. I have no experience with nitrogen, but after reading about it, I'd consider this test. Just on one vehicle until I know one way or the other whether it's useful.