I've actually experienced these things for myself, but it's impossible to talk about without sounding like a crackpot. I'm glad there are other, more qualified crazy people talking about this. That said, I'm still a skeptic, only because I believe in the scientific process and likewise don't believe in my own senses, which I know are fallible. The truth is out there.
It's truly heartening to see sincere exploration of fields a concepts such as this, which have, since the rise of dogmatic materialism, have pigeon-holed, ridiculed and villified from the days of DeCarte.
Bernardo Kastrup IS special. He is easily understood, authentic and humbly gracious. It takes only one time hearing Bernardo speak and most know he is seriously noteworthy.
I am a 73 year old great-grandmother and I listen to Bernardo several times a week. (Especially loved the one with he and Rupert Spira) I admit I have to have a Dictionary close by 😉...but I learn so much from him, particularly about the nature of Consciousness. Just something about Bernardo...👍
Absolutely! I've been following him for a little over 3 years and he has COMPLETELY changed my perspective on the nature of reality and the self, religion, consciousness, etc. I'm beyond thankful for his patience, clarity and humility when conveying complex topics to the average layman like myself.
He like all others are working within a confirmation bias created by the Roman slavers What i would like you to know is The universe is a switch that blinks into and out of existence, but whilst within the blink of existence, the universe expands which means FEELS and retracts again a FEELING, so the universe is constantly FEELING a range of emotion Then the universe thinks "thinking is capable without language, a cat , a dog, a insect all think without words , but the noise of something exists" The Druids say "we have the wrong end of the stick" "we cant see past the end of our nose" "there is an elephant in the room" "humpty dumpty ,"rock a by baby" along with many others passed mum to baby orally . whilst the left noise PFC "let its imagination run away with itself" and the right PFC did what it was told without the left being aware of it :) The point is the "the fish rots from the head first" So the noise is the first to go then you are left with FEELINGS , i pray you feel all of the love possible here, the love you have always felt, but if you feel something more overwhelming, its ok, we know, you dont have to tell anyone, we know, Then the light show before the lights are turned off, (time gets a little weird here, but there is no memory , just a ride to the rebirth (your an energy, if you didn't balance your vibration to almost nothing, then the vibration stays)) That's the meaning of existence to have everyone existing within love ,. So the "Bough" does not break
I find the example of metaphysical experience that Bernardo talked about very interesting, the grandma that had a head stroke, and his girlfriend knew about it. When I was still a kid, we had a similar experience in our family. Our family (i.e. me and my parents) moved far away from my grandparents, because my father found work there. Now, after many years, suddenly my mother woke up in the middle of the night and started packing everything we need to travel and put it in the car. My father woke up and asked here what she was doing and why she was preparing for travel. My mother said, she had no idea, just felt that it was important but didn't know why (and normally she didn't do weird stuff like this). So we were all puzzled. Then the phone rang, and we were informed that my grandpa was in the hospital hundreds of kilometers away, and he's about to die, and we should pack our most important stuff and come as quickly as possible. My mother had already done this, and we were ready to go immediately. My grandfather died a few hours later in the early morning.
Bernardo speaks the truth,No Thing happens, or everything is No Thing. The physicist wont be able to understand bernardo as well as the other people who asked questions because they thought, a person is the same as consciousness which is fundamental. Bernardo you,nailed it!!! Amazing.
this is so incredible, it's the first time I hear someone else talk about that question,the question I asked myself when I was a kid " If I weren't I would I still exist? " and then my brain 'froze', cause I was a child of 5 or something, that's so cool to hear about these things, I'm not even interested in the answer, but to hear someone else has asked the same questions,that makes me feel less lonely. Another experience I don't feel any longer is when I was younger,then I Looked at my hands And felt completely alien to myself, as if I were looking from outside.
Starting at 55:26 , Bernard Carr sets up his argument that brains aren't the generators of consciousness because of the "why am I me, and not you?"... Listening to his argument, all the sudden it clicked for me... holy crap he's right i thought... It only lasted for a second though... But I do really think there is something there with that argument. I'll be thinking about that idea more.
Bernard means brave as a bear. Now we also know smart and intelligent. I love it. This is incredible conversation. Historical. Both deserve the Nobel Prize.
Bernard talking about the specious present changing was interesting. Time seeming to speed up when doing something fun etc. The opposite seems to happen when you do something like extreme sports when heart is racing and adrenaline flowing. I have had experiences whilst surfing, where you ride a tube and time 'seems' to slow down, where an instant in time becomes etched in your mind..i can remember vivid details of individual water droplets from waves ridden 30 years ago, seeing the colours, roar of the wave sound..probably fight or flight response and from adrenaline. I think the same must happen for skiers, race car drivers, mountain climbers..where your on the edge of disaster and your senses become hyper alert,,or something. This was a very interesting discussion.
When they get to around 1:22.xx I almost had a heart attack! Bernard seemed to be articulately describing the same talks I have heard in esoteric Buddhist contexts talking about how the 'Buddha' is all one in a way and has been every single person that ever was and every sentient being that ever was.. that we ourselves also are this one person and we have been every person and sentient being ever etc. I got the chills. (I have heard this from a number of highly respected Buddhist scholar.practicioner-teachers.
Oh wow - Bernardo went full non-dualism on us there! 😂 Fantastic conversation! Thank you so much. Can’t wait for part 2. Hopefully with shorter answers from Carr and more questions from the audience 🤞😄
Omg I want another podcast with these 2 wonderful men!! I could sit here for hours upon hours listening to their thoughts and theories. Please get these guys back again. I found this to be extremely interesting and massively intriguing!! 👍👍❤️
Well even though this was posted 6 months ago and I am just now watching because I've gotten very interested in Kastrup, because I find him exceedingly intelligent, probably mainly because he is able to observe without judgment and use introspection with what he observes, it seems that very few, especially men, are able to observe without judgment, then use introspection with an honest observational view lacking judgment but including consistent introspection, although posted 6 months ago I feel compelled to respond because I find that I like Mr Carr much more than expected so I thought I'd make a comment or two on Mister Carr's views with which he very consistently implies he knows not whether it is correct or not my implicit comment is that Mr Carr you are much more correct than you realize I'm surprised that your dreams haven't made this clear but perhaps they have and you just can't express it here I think it's interesting how intensely Mr Bernardo listens to you in this video I decided to make this comment to express Mr Carr you are correct how do I know this? My experience in the travel of consciousness yes there is a prism not necessarily a hierarchy that's a convenient way of understanding how a prism works but one would never consider the prism of colors or sound in music for example to be a hierarchy in that you would never omit the wonderful high sounds to the low sounds in a musical configuration any more than you would omit the high and low vibrations of an existence in a hierarchy what we call lucid dreaming today will soon be found becoming conscious in another state in another place we consider it becoming conscious while we are dreaming but logistically it makes more sense that we are becoming conscious in another space that space and Consciousness being a prism of several different stations like a train predicts expresses and mathematically calculates that yes not only are we all one configuration but also a million configurations in order to be an individual you must be a cosmos to be large must be small I wish I could speak more specifically about this in this post but it's just not possible but I can say that I am very talented in the travel of Consciousness and that the dream state is a part of the prism that could be referred to as the seventh dimension I have had the version of my own existence from that dimension appear to me visit me in that state we call dreaming which is actually another state of consciousness she is a faster version existing of me that is able to calculate and see much bigger and faster than I possibly can where I am here in the third dimension. she visited me once for just an instant because in the terms of prisms and Consciousness it's illegal not presentable under the architecture of Consciousness without collapse this means that we are many and one at the same space I get very frustrated with the use of the word time t i m e it's never expressed or explained accurately even by you guys there is an objective reference to time anywhere which is that it is the Rhythm of movement of space therefore to refer to real time as is often specified it must always be either referred to as clock or rhythm of space therefore there is no such thing as a state of time a dimension of time there is perhaps a reference to the rhythm of space movement and that all space movement could be referred to as a state of time but that would only be the references to the rhythm of space moving not a clock any other references that are not to space moving are the references to the imagination produced by the human being of the clock by slicing up those rhythms into numbers this is not a real existence this is a consequence of perception by the human Through Math the only real existence of what we refer to as time is the rhythm of space movement this is why when dreaming time seems to dilate it doesn't dilate it doesn't exist in that state of that consciousness I get very frustrated that no physics people know philosophy people nobody refers to the reference of time as it has been sliced up by a clock being the movement of rhythm of space most of the references of time by human physics psychologist and more are the references of the clock 24 hours and nothing else not even the rhythm of the movement of space this is very disappointing anyway most important I thought that you know Mr Carr if you happen to see this post you are correct there is a version of me in the third dimension there is a version of me in the seventh Dimension there is a version of me in the 4th 5th and 6th Dimension there are three zillion versions of me in the entire existence of whatever might be called universes or Cosmos and those versions of me are all versions of you and therefore are versions of Millions however the concept of being a singular one against those Millions is only a concept to recognize the Millions the same as a plan is an architecture configured in order to recognize the spontaneous random without the architecture of plan you can never recognize random that's why Mr Carr and Mr Kastrup random doesn't seem like an existence to you it is but you can't see it unless you see it against the counter on which everything exists meaning all existence you must see the counter of architecture in order to recognize random or spontaneity ❤GEM❤
Great conversation but two of Bernardo’s insights stood out: The ‘off the record’ conjecture about time and existence - brilliant. The summation of Jungs insight into the meaning of life in co-creating nature through our accounting of experience.
The triangle analogy reminds me of Kandinsky’s and Maslow’s triangles. Fascinating discussion. I am an artist who is studying the role of consciousness in art. Big fan of these brilliant men. Thank you for this very informative and interesting discussion.
Thank you Great fully aware of One pristine infinite eternal magnificent beautiful loving graceful being consciousness you are That Open ur eyes see. Beloved all over Rumi
I asked my friend a question like this last year and he got mad, thinking I was just trying to intuit the existence of a soul (which I do believe in as an Orthodox Christian, but I refrain from almost all arguments for it and wasn't really trying to argue it at all). My question was "Why am I me and not a rock?" Which was further illustrated with the question "Why am I me and not you, or anyone else in any time period ever?" When I expanded on this concept another friend thought I was just going for The Ship of Theseus, which I wasn't. It's a weird question, especially if you don't believe that preexisting souls/minds come occupy distinct bodies that can be interchanged (which I and most materialists do not). I'm gonna listen to this at some point, but I'm quite interested in hearing the conversation.
The reason I assume you can't create a symphony from scratch with an infinite thought is because our brain states are not in the right configuration to accept such a symphony or to record it as a memory or to be able to decipher it. A well-trained musician with a specific creative disposition (openness) will be able to create that symphony from the momentary glimpse because they will have already configured their brains to understand sounds and the relationship to the rest of our cognition/perception/emotions and have the general cognitive capacities (openness and high intelligence as well as a degree of conscientiousness necessary for working at one art consistently).
2:23:20 yes, I think this too. If the universe is mind like, and we are smaller versions inside of it, doesn't it make sense we would be able to harness whatever information it has, and probably even its processing power. There may be barriers and difficulties, due to our current limitations of consciousness, but possible. In fact, I think we do do this all the time, but we are oblivious to it. We assume we are on our own, but truth is our minds are connected to something much greater and unfathomably capable, that we barely use because we dont know any better.
My great gran Dad reminded me yesterday that I asked him this question when I was 7 years old going on 8. I was looking out the 10th storey of our apartment building, to my friends and my mom riding bikes around Central Park. Wondering why I wasn't them riding their bikes but I'm upstairs with him when he was younger. Then I realized in my dreams, they were me, dreaming about being them riding bikes. This would happen nob stop since. 👊🥰
These two are some of my favorites!! This makes me SO HAPPY to see them together! Thank you! Bravo! 👏🏻 🌹 More! Also, I think I’ve said this before, but for such an insightful message to be packaged in an absolutely delightful, adorable package as Bernard is just the cherry on top. Really appreciate the guiding questions from Bernardo and his expertise too. Just so happy this is happening and can’t wait for the next one! ETA: I do have to say I’m surprised by how adamantly Bernardo argues against there being meta cognitive faculties in consciousness at large…this view contradicts a mass of observations/reports from NDE data if one is to take that into account (as, arguably, one should). I would love to hear Bernard’s thoughts on that as he is more familiar with the literature than Bernardo is. Please do ask them about this next time! Look forward to it!
@@philosophybabble Oh! I didn’t even know that was a possibility! I’m subscribed here to get all the alerts for your channel; will there be an alert/announcement for when that would happen? Or do I need to sign up to be notified on a different app (Clubhouse?)? Thank you!!
@@surrendertoflow78 Announcement will be on the channel, but you will requires to sign up for Clubhouse audio app. Details are on the channel about page. Let me know if you're having issue. :)
I'm not a materialist, but I'm not really seeing Bernard's point discussed around the hour mark. A materialist would argue that Bernard is Bernard (and not Bernardo) precisely because of the particular genetic patterns that make up Bernard's body, the particular neural configurations in Bernard's brain, the particular embryonic (and other) physiological history, and so forth. None of this is "portable" to another person, or even away from Bernard to an abstract space, so in that sense it wouldn't be meaningless in materialism. I'm not saying that I agree with materialism; I'm only saying that I don't really see that point. Of course this also has a "spiritual" version, because even if the brain is just filtering / moulding my consciousness, there is the question of whether any of that filtering or moulding is portable either once the physical system fails. One presumes filtering would end with the collapse of the filter and that moulding would no longer be a force exerted if the mould itself lost all shape and form. There is a question of whether memories can be retained in some form, and there is the interesting question of whether whatever you become can be said to have a unique history in space-time (as Bernard or Bernardo, or whatever). The question of why I am me and not someone else becomes more pressing if consciousness is ever taken to disappear entirely, however, as many people take it to do in surgical anaesthesia. Then it is a deep mystery as to why I should wake back up as the same person. It wouldn't seem mysterious, granted, if I woke up as a different person, because I would have the memories of that person and would be that person. BUT...I *DO* wake up as the same person and, moreover, I seem to know that I do, and that is a mystery...
@Inquisitive Brahmin Well who listens when you voice-instruct a computer to turn on. There's a difference between response and awareness. It's an interesting idea that we are never "not conscious" but I don't know what it means for a state like deep sleep.
I chuckled at the moment Bernard said the infinitely small was the same as the infinitely large. I woke from a sleep when I was 15 or 16 with that exact knowledge! And to this day I believe it. Wonderful discussion. Thank you!
Love this dialogue. Listen to it over and over again. I think Dr. Kastrup would be interested in the philosopher Jiddu Krishnamurti who died 1895-1986. Many of his talks and dialogues with for instance the physicist David Bohm are readily available on TH-cam.
My thoughts exactly! K asked, can there be a radical, instant, profound, worldwide change? My clumsy words, not K's. Yes, I heard so much J Krishnamurti in this conversation. I'm glad you heard the same.
The question at time 54 min. is a great one which I have had talks about with some friends. How does it fragment, but also how does it get back together in the end...and then who are we then. ? Bernardo's remarks at time 1:40 etc....great great stuff about nothing happening in time and everything....keep talking Bernardo....don't stop.
That was a beautiful absolutely great collaboration! Im totally stoked! These men will open new doors to science and one day social and academia will be talking about these theories! ❤
Some thoughts FWIW: We live in a construct that is the physical world. I call it the 'Pain Plane'. (I coined that phrase, so if you hear it elsewhere it was me!) There are many other 'planes' but we can only guess of them; and physics, however enlightened, won't make a lot of progress in the understanding thereof. The only way to true enlightenment is either, a) to die, whereupon we will be shown whatever is appropriate for us, or b) to embark on lifelong meditation and spiritual devotion ala Buddha. Anything less will only scratch the surface. (NB Occasional meditation practice will help a bit). Time as we know it is part of the physical construct and exists only here. It measures change within the construct. Time, as we understand it, probably doesn't exist in the universe. The reasons for this elaborate physical construct to which we bring part of ourselves (i.e. consciousness, spiritual existence being the other part) can only be guessed at. My best guess is that it's part of a Universal improvement programme. (Capital 'U')
01:11:26 dont know why, but this idea popped to my head when i was just at that timestamp. imagine a 3d object. just one, single object. a bridge like object is best suited. now imagine a huge sheet of paper which cuts through it, i.e. imagine a 2d projection through the 3d object. make it such, that it cuts through both legs only, if you imagined a bridge like 3d object. now all of a sudden have 2 disconnected, 2d objects. i think this is the explanation for multiplicity. its an appearance, an illusion, which happens due to down-projection from higher dimensions. it appears as many, but in the higher dimensions, its just one. consciousness in the highest dimension is one.. when you come down to the 3d world, it has projected itself downwards so many times that it has fragmented itself into innumerable pieces. but only apparently so. not in reality.
Many classical scholars assign to language the role of kingmaker when it comes to consciousness. That is, language use is thought to either directly enable consciousness or to be one of the signature behaviors associated with consciousness.
After 37:47 The analogy between mental states and thermodynamic states is fascinating: in both cases, if you observe a single entity, it is very difficult to see a governing law. (Single molecules in a gas have a velocity which changes more or less randomly after every collision, a meter cubed of air at normal atmospheric pressure has a distinct temperature). Therefore, I find it of utmost importance to collect as much data as possible about mental states. Unfortunately, under the influence of the physicalist dogma, unusual mental states are often dismissed as being irrelevant.
Bernard’s question has an uncommonly sensible answer. The reason why he’s himself and not Bernardo is because the same consciousness that animates them both is filtered through two different mind-body complexes, each having its own unique set of physical attributes, learned behaviors, histories and memories. From an absolute perspective, Bernard’s question is based on a wrong assumption; that he is not Bernardo, when in fact they share the same being, which is consciousness, itself.
Listening you, I've understood that Bernardo is talking about the power of consciousness in non duality and Bernard about every day of life which is duality. Physics is matter and is tangible in our perception In order to study it and use it in our every day of life. Mind is the feeling or thought or information. Suffering is the price to pay on earth, in terms of fear. Their is no suffering in full understanding of life, that is Love.
The mental states outside nervous systems that Bernardo mentioned can only be assumed. But that assumption could be premised on the behavior and performance of what we ordinarily assume is a dead, inanimate universe. Seth Lloyd describes a universe that makes quantum calculations, and Freeman Dyson describes how the atomic and subatomic universe makes selections. At least, by what is observable and measurable, what better expressions of consciousness do we have other than selection and calculation? There's definitely something "intelligent " about the universe and from there you can either assume or not assume a subjective, inner world that takes place in that processing. One thing is certain, with what we know about the universe currently, we cannot assert that the universe is without consciousness. That learns towards panpsychism, so I'm not sure how that evidence squares with idealism. I suppose it's possible that those selections and calculations are no less a manifestation of mind at large as are we a part of mind at large.
A stroke of genius. There is no semantic space between randomness, which is not free will, and libertarian free will is not free will because it is determined by preferences and so on. Wow. Yes we are enjoying it
I see a lot of truth in Bernard's theory about the specious present. I think the "fragmentation" problem is just using a very bad word to relate to the real phenomena. It's not a matter of "fragmentation", it's just a matter of structure. Dissociation isn't fragmentation, it's structural hierarchy. It's so simple... Higher structural orders can make themselves into more "concentrated structures" so to say, and then entropy is the natural tendency to fall back into the higher structural unity, hierarchycally. We do the same thing all the time when we concentrate in very specific tasks, getting sometimes to the point of almost completely ignoring our body and external stimuli. And the opposite effect happens when we just relax and broaden up in meditation or certain physical activities. I see a very deep relation between entropy and relaxation. Life is a "pull and push" game. The question is then, what makes this lower structures arise? And I would say it's some kind of "tension" or "resistance" that arises in-between this cosmic mind, at each hierarchycal step.
Remarkable conversations on the nature of reality as pertains to the human perceptual process interpreting the field of energy we call reality are among my greatest passions since earliest childhood. The rise of modern Idealism and conversations of it by men of such ability to explain and explore the intracies thereof, for me are like encountering a pool of clear cool water in a dry parched desert.
I have always felt humans are very arrogant and see things from our human perspective without fully involving all human experience and definitely not considering the rest of nature. I believe consciousness to be present in everything. It was good to hear consideration of different consciousnesses.
I think of the material world of physics as merely my (or our, collective) perception of difference in the rate of change in and between external substances. Psyche, on the other hand, is my internal perception of the rates by which things change "within me," so to speak, the rates by which "I" change. The only thing static about me is the thing left over after everything else has changed. That is the essential "me." Just as there are external phenomena, some of which remain intact even while everything else with respect to it changes at this or that rate--both within itself (intrinsically) and relative to other things (extrinsically)--so too are there aspects within ourselves that remain in fixed and stable positions--i.e., things constituting what we might call our "character"--even while other aspects of ourselves are subject to more or less rapid change, relative to the rest of ourselves. Hence the uncanny similarity--the strangely near perfect correspondence--between the external world of "mutual" or "shared" experiences of this or that object, and the internal "world" that we each refer to as our inner, subjective experiences. At bottom, therefore, we see that objectivity and subjectivity are only distinguishable by a very thin, barely visible--and no doubt arbitrary--line of distinction. What's more, these two isomorphic "worlds" have far more in common than most people realize. This ubiquitous sense of the relative rates of change--more or less without disruption to the static patterns by which any given object is either typified or subsists, both within and without each subject, the most salient common denominator between all things--is at length that upon which all consciousness rest at the end of the day. These insights came to me by way of my direct experiences as an addict/alcoholic, and as a member of Alcoholics Anonymous, besides many years of philosophical study and speculation. As a result of the above, I realized that my obsession with chemicals was a reflection of my desire to change, pure and simple, to facilitate and accelerate change, albeit not just any change. In my case, as apparently is the case with my fellow AA members, I seem to have a fixation on using chemicals to facilitate Change In the Direction of Improvement!! Thus I became an avid student of CG Jung and Alchemy. Changing the direction of improvement seems to be the common denominator of both the inner world of the psyche and the external world of nature. There are telos obviously at work in both. The 12 steps of Alcoholics Anonymous catalyze and facilitate the tendency of the psyche to want to grow and develop in a certain way--just as the Laws of Physics work to guide change and development of the natural world in certain ways commensurate with growth, even in the case of apparently non-living beings such as crystals.
You are You, because You is a Life-Unit, and have your own Eternal Consciousness. The I, that You refer to all the time, is the Same I, that all Life-Unit's refer to.
i will say this about "reality". its a remarkably stable illusion. i am surprised sometimes that we dont skip in time back and forth, or go through walls, or wake up in the body of someone else. i feel as if that would make more sense in a way.
Observing a system entangles the observer with the system in a way that makes it seem that the observation collapsed the quantum state. Now assume a description of such an interaction with observation the left and collapse on the right. That equation can then be reversed and will describe the measure of how consciousness arises from quantum collapse
While two basket balls may seem the same and even bounce the same, they aren't the same. So, just because you share similar properties doesn't mean those properties aren't actually different. So if you can ask the question why am I me and not you, you can also ask the question, why am I me instead of this rock.
1:04:46 if you move a point in time you get a line. if you move a line in time you get a surface. If you move a surface in time you get 3d space... Time is a perspective. it is a misunderstanding of a higher dimensional space.
Both your perspective and Carr's work contribute to the a broader discussion surrounding the nature of time, space, and consciousness. They can coexist as complementary viewpoints, enriching our understanding of these complex topics and encouraging further exploration. As we continue to investigate these mysteries, it is essential to consider a variety of perspectives, to gain a deeper and more comprehensive understanding of the nature of reality.
Interesting conversation. I like what Bernard said about what makes a virtual reality or even a lucid dream “real” is it’s “communal” I would say a dmt trip can be communal also. Well if we can accept there is a recognisable state in nature we call lucid dreaming, then I would argue there is a recognisable state in nature called ego death. This can be achieved with mushrooms and Bernardo has also experienced this(thats why I like and respect him so much he took the dive). When you undergo ego death always the ego dissolves into the infinite. You are infinite What do I mean well I argue you are an infinite thing , example imagine an elephant in middle of a field. I go stand on a certain spot I look 👀 at the 🐘 and imagine we some how capture an image of what I see. Then you go stand on the same spot look at elephant we capture an image of what you actually see, then we compare the images. Can you see they will not be identical maybe your eyes are better then mine? Then now we do the same for every creature on earth from an eagle to a frog to a mosquito every creature in the UNIVERSE. Now go to that spot get your phone out take a photo then do same for every camera ever invented, every x ray images mri scan telescopes, image the elephant from that spot with every possible technology in the universe. Now how many images do we have of elephant 🐘 which is the correct ✅ one? And who is the judge? Should we ask the eagle or an alien 👽 to look at the images compare them all and choose the right one? Should we somehow superimpose the infinite images on top of each other? They will all be different in fact 🐘 is an infinite thing just like anything else including you or reality itself. Reality is a “physical universe” reality is “pure consciousness “ reality is “a creation of god” reality is “information “ reality is “matter” reality is “fluctuating quantum fields” reality is “fine tuned” reality is “a dream” reality is “a simulation “ reality is AN INFINITE OBJECT! :)
We humans are too much in concepts of words generally. Reality offers its truth quite more tangible when we are just still or in natural flow by action.
The answer is… Because we are not the body! We are the spirit and consciousness! The body belongs to the family call of that comes from the DNA of the family!
In ancient Iranian Zoroastrian texts there are definitions of different time dimensions, that in the beginning of creation is the creation of time dimensions of different extension. For instance one time is called dagrand-zamân which is a universal immense time that is hyper extended, and then other sorts of time are created in which human life can appear. Also time is seen as cyclic. There is also the notion of a God that is the origin of God himself. That entity is called Zarwân which means Time. From Zarwân God and Devil appears.
If it wasn't for archetypes Charles Dickens would have died broke. I wish I had a $ for everytime I've asked myself why I'm me, and not someone else. Most of my problems would be solved. Fascinating conversation. Thanks.
I’ve always had this question about Idealism. Bernardo has answered this by saying it’s nature and that’s just what nature does and says that we know this because it happens with humans now. I don’t love that but he sees it as trivial. To be clear I love Kastrup and I consider myself now and idealist but I’m with you on wanting a better understanding of it. I have a feeling that it may be more a spiritual than a scientific answer. Bernardo is a naturalist so to him we know dissociation happens so it will naturally happen if it’s possible that it can happen. Not a great answer. I’d love to have a better explanation too!
We also always only compare ourselves on a conscious level because both of us have consciousness, we ask the question of why i am me and not you. I have potassium, and so does a banana, but i am not the banana, and the banana isn't me. Actually, what is "you" I think it isn't a fixed state. I think "you" forms and changes with time, and there is an illusion of continuous. So how does why am i me instead of you make sense when youre not even you from a second ago?
Ultimately, all of the you's, me's and I's are superimpositions in/as the universal Absolute Continuum of Pure Consciousness, Brahman. It's a vast Ocean of Sat-Chit-Ananda. Everything in the universe is That Consciousness. However, in a conventional sense, there are obviously separate entities like Car and Kastrup. Such apparently separate entities exist simultaneously within and as the Continuum of Pure Consciousness. It's the Buddhists concept of "The Simultaneity of Oneness and difference". The error (Maya) is the false notion that apparently discrete things have an existence apart from Consciousness. I am That, You are That, all This (the entire universe), is That.
Universal Consciousness is divided into divided consciousness, how it fragments? These fragments can be excitations in universal consciousness and why this happens because Universal Consciousness desires to "be". Idea of desire would be important.
I had this very idea about mental dimensions and present moment expansion and contraction with more specific detail back in my teens and it could explain a mulititude of psychic phenomena, except as I grew more scientifically and skeptically minded I realized it explained phenomena that have never been proven to even occur at all beyond more mundane explanations. To my way of thinking, calling objective events mental or physical phenomena makes little if any difference with no pragmatic utility in preferring mental to the material. As they began talking about Buddhism the idea of nonduality should have come up whitch concurs with this observation.
I used to wonder about how when I was conceived my father released thousands of sperm cells out of which only one fertilized my mother's egg. What if instead of sperm cell A which fertilized the egg it was sperm cell B? Would that mean that I would not exist as Steven or perhaps a different Steven or even a Stephanie?
Absolutely fascinating! I will have to listen to all this again! Could one say that nature/God "created" humans to introduce metacognition into reality? That is to be aware and think about itself, sentient beings being part of creation? Maybe as a homeostatic agent to make, create things and ideas/values to stabilize and correct situations? Then wouldn't that have been deliberate? So many questions ... Thanks so much Bernard and Bernardo! 🌿
Wow! Can't quite believe academics are vocally addressing these topics which I've intuited since childhood. Thank you, feeling such gratitude 😍
Amen!!❤🙏🙏
I've done the same since the 1970s...it's great to see this
I've actually experienced these things for myself, but it's impossible to talk about without sounding like a crackpot. I'm glad there are other, more qualified crazy people talking about this. That said, I'm still a skeptic, only because I believe in the scientific process and likewise don't believe in my own senses, which I know are fallible. The truth is out there.
Yeah, they are really good at catching up with the world, then acting like they understand it.
It's truly heartening to see sincere exploration of fields a concepts such as this, which have, since the rise of dogmatic materialism, have pigeon-holed, ridiculed and villified from the days of DeCarte.
Bernardo Kastrup IS special. He is easily understood, authentic and humbly gracious. It takes only one time hearing Bernardo speak and most know he is seriously noteworthy.
I'm interested in the cogency of his theories, not fawning fanboys' belief he should be declared a saint lol😅
He knows!
I am a 73 year old great-grandmother and I listen to Bernardo several times a week. (Especially loved the one with he and Rupert Spira) I admit I have to have a Dictionary close by 😉...but I learn so much from him, particularly about the nature of Consciousness. Just something about Bernardo...👍
Absolutely! I've been following him for a little over 3 years and he has COMPLETELY changed my perspective on the nature of reality and the self, religion, consciousness, etc. I'm beyond thankful for his patience, clarity and humility when conveying complex topics to the average layman like myself.
More power to you!
Respect and Love dear Maam!
He like all others are working within a confirmation bias created by the Roman slavers
What i would like you to know is The universe is a switch that blinks into and out of existence,
but whilst within the blink of existence, the universe expands which means FEELS and retracts again a FEELING, so the universe is constantly FEELING a range of emotion
Then the universe thinks "thinking is capable without language, a cat , a dog, a insect all think without words , but the noise of something exists"
The Druids say "we have the wrong end of the stick" "we cant see past the end of our nose" "there is an elephant in the room" "humpty dumpty ,"rock a by baby" along with many others passed mum to baby orally . whilst the left noise PFC "let its imagination run away with itself" and the right PFC did what it was told without the left being aware of it :)
The point is the "the fish rots from the head first"
So the noise is the first to go then you are left with FEELINGS , i pray you feel all of the love possible here, the love you have always felt, but if you feel something more overwhelming, its ok, we know, you dont have to tell anyone, we know,
Then the light show before the lights are turned off, (time gets a little weird here, but there is no memory , just a ride to the rebirth (your an energy, if you didn't balance your vibration to almost nothing, then the vibration stays))
That's the meaning of existence to have everyone existing within love ,. So the "Bough" does not break
Thanks I am so glad to know another 70 + is hearing Bernardo the way do. His clear insight both settles and and 😂excites me.
What a time to be alive where I can read their essays, understand 60% of it, and then watch them discuss it!!!
I find the example of metaphysical experience that Bernardo talked about very interesting, the grandma that had a head stroke, and his girlfriend knew about it. When I was still a kid, we had a similar experience in our family. Our family (i.e. me and my parents) moved far away from my grandparents, because my father found work there. Now, after many years, suddenly my mother woke up in the middle of the night and started packing everything we need to travel and put it in the car. My father woke up and asked here what she was doing and why she was preparing for travel. My mother said, she had no idea, just felt that it was important but didn't know why (and normally she didn't do weird stuff like this). So we were all puzzled. Then the phone rang, and we were informed that my grandpa was in the hospital hundreds of kilometers away, and he's about to die, and we should pack our most important stuff and come as quickly as possible. My mother had already done this, and we were ready to go immediately. My grandfather died a few hours later in the early morning.
Wow, the last 10 minutes or so Bernardo pulled it all together for me. Like poetry, it was. A moving story he weaved.
Bernardo speaks the truth,No Thing happens, or everything is No Thing. The physicist wont be able to understand bernardo as well as the other people who asked questions because they thought, a person is the same as consciousness which is fundamental. Bernardo you,nailed it!!! Amazing.
this is so incredible, it's the first time I hear someone else talk about that question,the question I asked myself when I was a kid " If I weren't I would I still exist? " and then my brain 'froze', cause I was a child of 5 or something, that's so cool to hear about these things, I'm not even interested in the answer, but to hear someone else has asked the same questions,that makes me feel less lonely. Another experience I don't feel any longer is when I was younger,then I Looked at my hands And felt completely alien to myself, as if I were looking from outside.
I think these are questions that signals an IQ way above average. 🌻
Starting at 55:26 , Bernard Carr sets up his argument that brains aren't the generators of consciousness because of the "why am I me, and not you?"... Listening to his argument, all the sudden it clicked for me... holy crap he's right i thought... It only lasted for a second though... But I do really think there is something there with that argument. I'll be thinking about that idea more.
I can give you a complete answer. mailed Bernardo but he didn't reply. my head is exploding with these complex topics.
A mindblowing (and mindfragmenting) conversation.
Bernard means brave as a bear. Now we also know smart and intelligent. I love it. This is incredible conversation. Historical. Both deserve the Nobel Prize.
Nobel Prize! 🥰
Ambos se llaman igual 😂
Bernard talking about the specious present changing was interesting. Time seeming to speed up when doing something fun etc. The opposite seems to happen when you do something like extreme sports when heart is racing and adrenaline flowing. I have had experiences whilst surfing, where you ride a tube and time 'seems' to slow down, where an instant in time becomes etched in your mind..i can remember vivid details of individual water droplets from waves ridden 30 years ago, seeing the colours, roar of the wave sound..probably fight or flight response and from adrenaline. I think the same must happen for skiers, race car drivers, mountain climbers..where your on the edge of disaster and your senses become hyper alert,,or something. This was a very interesting discussion.
When they get to around 1:22.xx I almost had a heart attack! Bernard seemed to be articulately describing the same talks I have heard in esoteric Buddhist contexts talking about how the 'Buddha' is all one in a way and has been every single person that ever was and every sentient being that ever was.. that we ourselves also are this one person and we have been every person and sentient being ever etc. I got the chills. (I have heard this from a number of highly respected Buddhist scholar.practicioner-teachers.
Ya. BK speaks Eastern spiritual traditions for the Western mind. God knows somebody needs to! Lol
It’s spooky
Oh, hell yeah. Love me some Bernardo!
During the moments of Bernard saying "I don't know", I couldn't help thinking that this man would make a great ⚡🧠 NEURONAUT ❇
Thanks so much for this 💎 gem! You guys are infinitely inspiring beyond time and space! Eternally grateful for your work. All of you in this video
Oh wow - Bernardo went full non-dualism on us there! 😂 Fantastic conversation! Thank you so much. Can’t wait for part 2. Hopefully with shorter answers from Carr and more questions from the audience 🤞😄
Time like curves
Omg I want another podcast with these 2 wonderful men!! I could sit here for hours upon hours listening to their thoughts and theories. Please get these guys back again. I found this to be extremely interesting and massively intriguing!! 👍👍❤️
The most wonderful and deepest two and a half hours I've spent on youtube! ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
Well even though this was posted 6 months ago and I am just now watching because I've gotten very interested in Kastrup, because I find him exceedingly intelligent, probably mainly because he is able to observe without judgment and use introspection with what he observes, it seems that very few, especially men, are able to observe without judgment, then use introspection with an honest observational view lacking judgment but including consistent introspection, although posted 6 months ago I feel compelled to respond because I find that I like Mr Carr much more than expected so I thought I'd make a comment or two on Mister Carr's views with which he very consistently implies he knows not whether it is correct or not my implicit comment is that Mr Carr you are much more correct than you realize I'm surprised that your dreams haven't made this clear but perhaps they have and you just can't express it here I think it's interesting how intensely Mr Bernardo listens to you in this video I decided to make this comment to express Mr Carr you are correct how do I know this? My experience in the travel of consciousness yes there is a prism not necessarily a hierarchy that's a convenient way of understanding how a prism works but one would never consider the prism of colors or sound in music for example to be a hierarchy in that you would never omit the wonderful high sounds to the low sounds in a musical configuration any more than you would omit the high and low vibrations of an existence in a hierarchy what we call lucid dreaming today will soon be found becoming conscious in another state in another place we consider it becoming conscious while we are dreaming but logistically it makes more sense that we are becoming conscious in another space that space and Consciousness being a prism of several different stations like a train predicts expresses and mathematically calculates that yes not only are we all one configuration but also a million configurations in order to be an individual you must be a cosmos to be large must be small I wish I could speak more specifically about this in this post but it's just not possible but I can say that I am very talented in the travel of Consciousness and that the dream state is a part of the prism that could be referred to as the seventh dimension I have had the version of my own existence from that dimension appear to me visit me in that state we call dreaming which is actually another state of consciousness she is a faster version existing of me that is able to calculate and see much bigger and faster than I possibly can where I am here in the third dimension. she visited me once for just an instant because in the terms of prisms and Consciousness it's illegal not presentable under the architecture of Consciousness without collapse this means that we are many and one at the same space I get very frustrated with the use of the word time t i m e it's never expressed or explained accurately even by you guys there is an objective reference to time anywhere which is that it is the Rhythm of movement of space therefore to refer to real time as is often specified it must always be either referred to as clock or rhythm of space therefore there is no such thing as a state of time a dimension of time there is perhaps a reference to the rhythm of space movement and that all space movement could be referred to as a state of time but that would only be the references to the rhythm of space moving not a clock any other references that are not to space moving are the references to the imagination produced by the human being of the clock by slicing up those rhythms into numbers this is not a real existence this is a consequence of perception by the human Through Math the only real existence of what we refer to as time is the rhythm of space movement this is why when dreaming time seems to dilate it doesn't dilate it doesn't exist in that state of that consciousness I get very frustrated that no physics people know philosophy people nobody refers to the reference of time as it has been sliced up by a clock being the movement of rhythm of space most of the references of time by human physics psychologist and more are the references of the clock 24 hours and nothing else not even the rhythm of the movement of space this is very disappointing anyway most important I thought that you know Mr Carr if you happen to see this post you are correct there is a version of me in the third dimension there is a version of me in the seventh Dimension there is a version of me in the 4th 5th and 6th Dimension there are three zillion versions of me in the entire existence of whatever might be called universes or Cosmos and those versions of me are all versions of you and therefore are versions of Millions however the concept of being a singular one against those Millions is only a concept to recognize the Millions the same as a plan is an architecture configured in order to recognize the spontaneous random without the architecture of plan you can never recognize random that's why Mr Carr and Mr Kastrup random doesn't seem like an existence to you it is but you can't see it unless you see it against the counter on which everything exists meaning all existence you must see the counter of architecture in order to recognize random or spontaneity ❤GEM❤
I really appreciated Barnardo’s concise contributions
Great conversation but two of Bernardo’s insights stood out:
The ‘off the record’ conjecture about time and existence - brilliant. The summation of Jungs insight into the meaning of life in co-creating nature through our accounting of experience.
The triangle analogy reminds me of Kandinsky’s and Maslow’s triangles. Fascinating discussion. I am an artist who is studying the role of consciousness in art. Big fan of these brilliant men. Thank you for this very informative and interesting discussion.
Thank you
Great fully aware of One pristine infinite eternal magnificent beautiful loving graceful being consciousness you are That
Open ur eyes see. Beloved all over
Rumi
Measure of time is a peculiar topic. I like to see time as laps around the sun and as personal evolution.
I asked my friend a question like this last year and he got mad, thinking I was just trying to intuit the existence of a soul (which I do believe in as an Orthodox Christian, but I refrain from almost all arguments for it and wasn't really trying to argue it at all). My question was "Why am I me and not a rock?" Which was further illustrated with the question "Why am I me and not you, or anyone else in any time period ever?" When I expanded on this concept another friend thought I was just going for The Ship of Theseus, which I wasn't. It's a weird question, especially if you don't believe that preexisting souls/minds come occupy distinct bodies that can be interchanged (which I and most materialists do not).
I'm gonna listen to this at some point, but I'm quite interested in hearing the conversation.
For me, the question of “why am I me rather than someone else” is perhaps even more of a mind blast than “why is there something rather than nothing”
I have been asking these questions for many years. Very good to hear them spoken by someone else for the first time! Thank you.
An explotion in pure consciousness. I am everything. I am nothing. I am. Wonderful conversation😂 Thank you❤
The reason I assume you can't create a symphony from scratch with an infinite thought is because our brain states are not in the right configuration to accept such a symphony or to record it as a memory or to be able to decipher it. A well-trained musician with a specific creative disposition (openness) will be able to create that symphony from the momentary glimpse because they will have already configured their brains to understand sounds and the relationship to the rest of our cognition/perception/emotions and have the general cognitive capacities (openness and high intelligence as well as a degree of conscientiousness necessary for working at one art consistently).
2:23:20 yes, I think this too. If the universe is mind like, and we are smaller versions inside of it, doesn't it make sense we would be able to harness whatever information it has, and probably even its processing power. There may be barriers and difficulties, due to our current limitations of consciousness, but possible. In fact, I think we do do this all the time, but we are oblivious to it. We assume we are on our own, but truth is our minds are connected to something much greater and unfathomably capable, that we barely use because we dont know any better.
My great gran Dad reminded me yesterday that I asked him this question when I was 7 years old going on 8. I was looking out the 10th storey of our apartment building, to my friends and my mom riding bikes around Central Park. Wondering why I wasn't them riding their bikes but I'm upstairs with him when he was younger.
Then I realized in my dreams, they were me, dreaming about being them riding bikes. This would happen nob stop since. 👊🥰
What an amazing conversation! Many more please!
These two are some of my favorites!! This makes me SO HAPPY to see them together! Thank you! Bravo! 👏🏻 🌹 More! Also, I think I’ve said this before, but for such an insightful message to be packaged in an absolutely delightful, adorable package as Bernard is just the cherry on top. Really appreciate the guiding questions from Bernardo and his expertise too. Just so happy this is happening and can’t wait for the next one!
ETA: I do have to say I’m surprised by how adamantly Bernardo argues against there being meta cognitive faculties in consciousness at large…this view contradicts a mass of observations/reports from NDE data if one is to take that into account (as, arguably, one should). I would love to hear Bernard’s thoughts on that as he is more familiar with the literature than Bernardo is. Please do ask them about this next time! Look forward to it!
Please come and join us on clubhouse for the next live session.
@@philosophybabble Oh! I didn’t even know that was a possibility! I’m subscribed here to get all the alerts for your channel; will there be an alert/announcement for when that would happen? Or do I need to sign up to be notified on a different app (Clubhouse?)? Thank you!!
@@surrendertoflow78 Announcement will be on the channel, but you will requires to sign up for Clubhouse audio app. Details are on the channel about page. Let me know if you're having issue. :)
@@philosophybabble I’ll look for the alert/announcement! Thank you so much!
I'm not a materialist, but I'm not really seeing Bernard's point discussed around the hour mark. A materialist would argue that Bernard is Bernard (and not Bernardo) precisely because of the particular genetic patterns that make up Bernard's body, the particular neural configurations in Bernard's brain, the particular embryonic (and other) physiological history, and so forth. None of this is "portable" to another person, or even away from Bernard to an abstract space, so in that sense it wouldn't be meaningless in materialism. I'm not saying that I agree with materialism; I'm only saying that I don't really see that point.
Of course this also has a "spiritual" version, because even if the brain is just filtering / moulding my consciousness, there is the question of whether any of that filtering or moulding is portable either once the physical system fails. One presumes filtering would end with the collapse of the filter and that moulding would no longer be a force exerted if the mould itself lost all shape and form. There is a question of whether memories can be retained in some form, and there is the interesting question of whether whatever you become can be said to have a unique history in space-time (as Bernard or Bernardo, or whatever).
The question of why I am me and not someone else becomes more pressing if consciousness is ever taken to disappear entirely, however, as many people take it to do in surgical anaesthesia. Then it is a deep mystery as to why I should wake back up as the same person. It wouldn't seem mysterious, granted, if I woke up as a different person, because I would have the memories of that person and would be that person. BUT...I *DO* wake up as the same person and, moreover, I seem to know that I do, and that is a mystery...
@Inquisitive Brahmin Well who listens when you voice-instruct a computer to turn on. There's a difference between response and awareness. It's an interesting idea that we are never "not conscious" but I don't know what it means for a state like deep sleep.
A wonderful exploration, thanks.
I chuckled at the moment Bernard said the infinitely small was the same as the infinitely large. I woke from a sleep when I was 15 or 16 with that exact knowledge! And to this day I believe it. Wonderful discussion. Thank you!
Thank you for your share!
Love this dialogue. Listen to it over and over again. I think Dr. Kastrup would be interested in the philosopher Jiddu Krishnamurti who died 1895-1986. Many of his talks and dialogues with for instance the physicist David Bohm are readily available on TH-cam.
My thoughts exactly! K asked, can there be a radical, instant, profound, worldwide change? My clumsy words, not K's. Yes, I heard so much J Krishnamurti in this conversation. I'm glad you heard the same.
The question at time 54 min. is a great one which I have had talks about with some friends. How does it fragment, but also how does it get back together in the end...and then who are we then. ? Bernardo's remarks at time 1:40 etc....great great stuff about nothing happening in time and everything....keep talking Bernardo....don't stop.
This was exactly what I needed! Much Love ❤️
Great talk. Fascinating. Now I have to listen again.
Thank you for this debate!
Wonderful lecture/discussion
Bernard Carr just unwittingly reinvented the TV show Quantum Leap.
LMAO >D
That was a beautiful absolutely great collaboration! Im totally stoked! These men will open new doors to science and one day social and academia will be talking about these theories! ❤
Some thoughts FWIW:
We live in a construct that is the physical world. I call it the 'Pain Plane'. (I coined that phrase, so if you hear it elsewhere it was me!) There are many other 'planes' but we can only guess of them; and physics, however enlightened, won't make a lot of progress in the understanding thereof.
The only way to true enlightenment is either, a) to die, whereupon we will be shown whatever is appropriate for us, or b) to embark on lifelong meditation and spiritual devotion ala Buddha. Anything less will only scratch the surface. (NB Occasional meditation practice will help a bit).
Time as we know it is part of the physical construct and exists only here. It measures change within the construct. Time, as we understand it, probably doesn't exist in the universe. The reasons for this elaborate physical construct to which we bring part of ourselves (i.e. consciousness, spiritual existence being the other part) can only be guessed at. My best guess is that it's part of a Universal improvement programme. (Capital 'U')
That was a Higher Dimension conversation
th-cam.com/video/EfLWQoC4xSk/w-d-xo.html
01:11:26
dont know why, but this idea popped to my head when i was just at that timestamp.
imagine a 3d object. just one, single object. a bridge like object is best suited.
now imagine a huge sheet of paper which cuts through it, i.e. imagine a 2d projection through the 3d object.
make it such, that it cuts through both legs only, if you imagined a bridge like 3d object.
now all of a sudden have 2 disconnected, 2d objects.
i think this is the explanation for multiplicity.
its an appearance, an illusion, which happens due to down-projection from higher dimensions. it appears as many, but in the higher dimensions, its just one.
consciousness in the highest dimension is one.. when you come down to the 3d world, it has projected itself downwards so many times that it has fragmented itself into innumerable pieces. but only apparently so. not in reality.
Many classical scholars assign to language the role of kingmaker when it comes to consciousness. That is, language use is thought to either directly enable consciousness or to be one of the signature behaviors associated with consciousness.
Magnificent discussion
After 37:47 The analogy between mental states and thermodynamic states is fascinating: in both cases, if you observe a single entity, it is very difficult to see a governing law. (Single molecules in a gas have a velocity which changes more or less randomly after every collision, a meter cubed of air at normal atmospheric pressure has a distinct temperature).
Therefore, I find it of utmost importance to collect as much data as possible about mental states. Unfortunately, under the influence of the physicalist dogma, unusual mental states are often dismissed as being irrelevant.
Imagine intelligence without thought. Only doing what is needed when needed without judgement. The Cosmic Mind. This was awsome.
Cosmic Mind, my arse. There is certainly no shortage of pretentious bullshit being spouted by mice (nothings and nobodies) these days.
I just feel good when I’m listening to this. Thank’s.😊
@2:07:00 Reminiscent of when Krishna shows Arjuna what fundamental reality really looks like, the theosophony in chapter 11 of the Bhagavad Gita
This was nothing, which is everything ;) thoroughly enjoyed this conversation
Fantastic! From start to finish…
Thank you! Cheers!
Parallel thinking is wild
Bernard’s question has an uncommonly sensible answer. The reason why he’s himself and not Bernardo is because the same consciousness that animates them both is filtered through two different mind-body complexes, each having its own unique set of physical attributes, learned behaviors, histories and memories. From an absolute perspective, Bernard’s question is based on a wrong assumption; that he is not Bernardo, when in fact they share the same being, which is consciousness, itself.
you got it.
Listening you, I've understood that Bernardo is talking about the power of consciousness in non duality and Bernard about every day of life which is duality. Physics is matter and is tangible in our perception In order to study it and use it in our every day of life. Mind is the feeling or thought or information. Suffering is the price to pay on earth, in terms of fear. Their is no suffering in full understanding of life, that is Love.
I am enjoying deeply , these are thoughts that went through my mind decades back as I went in search of truth
I just realised that these guys have the same name
The mental states outside nervous systems that Bernardo mentioned can only be assumed. But that assumption could be premised on the behavior and performance of what we ordinarily assume is a dead, inanimate universe. Seth Lloyd describes a universe that makes quantum calculations, and Freeman Dyson describes how the atomic and subatomic universe makes selections. At least, by what is observable and measurable, what better expressions of consciousness do we have other than selection and calculation? There's definitely something "intelligent " about the universe and from there you can either assume or not assume a subjective, inner world that takes place in that processing. One thing is certain, with what we know about the universe currently, we cannot assert that the universe is without consciousness. That learns towards panpsychism, so I'm not sure how that evidence squares with idealism. I suppose it's possible that those selections and calculations are no less a manifestation of mind at large as are we a part of mind at large.
A stroke of genius. There is no semantic space between randomness, which is not free will, and libertarian free will is not free will because it is determined by preferences and so on. Wow. Yes we are enjoying it
awesome talk, thanks PB!
I see a lot of truth in Bernard's theory about the specious present. I think the "fragmentation" problem is just using a very bad word to relate to the real phenomena.
It's not a matter of "fragmentation", it's just a matter of structure. Dissociation isn't fragmentation, it's structural hierarchy. It's so simple... Higher structural orders can make themselves into more "concentrated structures" so to say, and then entropy is the natural tendency to fall back into the higher structural unity, hierarchycally.
We do the same thing all the time when we concentrate in very specific tasks, getting sometimes to the point of almost completely ignoring our body and external stimuli. And the opposite effect happens when we just relax and broaden up in meditation or certain physical activities. I see a very deep relation between entropy and relaxation. Life is a "pull and push" game.
The question is then, what makes this lower structures arise? And I would say it's some kind of "tension" or "resistance" that arises in-between this cosmic mind, at each hierarchycal step.
Remarkable conversations on the nature of reality as pertains to the human perceptual process interpreting the field of energy we call reality are among my greatest passions since earliest childhood. The rise of modern Idealism and conversations of it by men of such ability to explain and explore the intracies thereof, for me are like encountering a pool of clear cool water in a dry parched desert.
1:25:50 reminds me of John Wheelers idea of how the entire universe could be
created by one single time travelling photon.
great interview!!
I have always felt humans are very arrogant and see things from our human perspective without fully involving all human experience and definitely not considering the rest of nature. I believe consciousness to be present in everything. It was good to hear consideration of different consciousnesses.
I think of the material world of physics as merely my (or our, collective) perception of difference in the rate of change in and between external substances. Psyche, on the other hand, is my internal perception of the rates by which things change "within me," so to speak, the rates by which "I" change. The only thing static about me is the thing left over after everything else has changed. That is the essential "me."
Just as there are external phenomena, some of which remain intact even while everything else with respect to it changes at this or that rate--both within itself (intrinsically) and relative to other things (extrinsically)--so too are there aspects within ourselves that remain in fixed and stable positions--i.e., things constituting what we might call our "character"--even while other aspects of ourselves are subject to more or less rapid change, relative to the rest of ourselves. Hence the uncanny similarity--the strangely near perfect correspondence--between the external world of "mutual" or "shared" experiences of this or that object, and the internal "world" that we each refer to as our inner, subjective experiences. At bottom, therefore, we see that objectivity and subjectivity are only distinguishable by a very thin, barely visible--and no doubt arbitrary--line of distinction. What's more, these two isomorphic "worlds" have far more in common than most people realize. This ubiquitous sense of the relative rates of change--more or less without disruption to the static patterns by which any given object is either typified or subsists, both within and without each subject, the most salient common denominator between all things--is at length that upon which all consciousness rest at the end of the day.
These insights came to me by way of my direct experiences as an addict/alcoholic, and as a member of Alcoholics Anonymous, besides many years of philosophical study and speculation. As a result of the above, I realized that my obsession with chemicals was a reflection of my desire to change, pure and simple, to facilitate and accelerate change, albeit not just any change. In my case, as apparently is the case with my fellow AA members, I seem to have a fixation on using chemicals to facilitate Change In the Direction of Improvement!!
Thus I became an avid student of CG Jung and Alchemy.
Changing the direction of improvement seems to be the common denominator of both the inner world of the psyche and the external world of nature. There are telos obviously at work in both. The 12 steps of Alcoholics Anonymous catalyze and facilitate the tendency of the psyche to want to grow and develop in a certain way--just as the Laws of Physics work to guide change and development of the natural world in certain ways commensurate with growth, even in the case of apparently non-living beings such as crystals.
You are You,
because You is a Life-Unit,
and have your own Eternal Consciousness.
The I, that You refer to all the time,
is the Same I, that all Life-Unit's refer to.
i will say this about "reality". its a remarkably stable illusion. i am surprised sometimes that we dont skip in time back and forth, or go through walls, or wake up in the body of someone else. i feel as if that would make more sense in a way.
Observing a system entangles the observer with the system in a way that makes it seem that the observation collapsed the quantum state. Now assume a description of such an interaction with observation the left and collapse on the right. That equation can then be reversed and will describe the measure of how consciousness arises from quantum collapse
I.e. the act of observation leads equally to consciousness and collapse.
While two basket balls may seem the same and even bounce the same, they aren't the same. So, just because you share similar properties doesn't mean those properties aren't actually different.
So if you can ask the question why am I me and not you, you can also ask the question, why am I me instead of this rock.
My deeepest sympathy for Kastrup's assertion : "Physics is the science of what comes next."
1:04:46 if you move a point in time you get a line. if you move a line in time you get a surface. If you move a surface in time you get 3d space... Time is a perspective. it is a misunderstanding of a higher dimensional space.
Both your perspective and Carr's work contribute to the a broader discussion surrounding the nature of time, space, and consciousness. They can coexist as complementary viewpoints, enriching our understanding of these complex topics and encouraging further exploration. As we continue to investigate these mysteries, it is essential to consider a variety of perspectives, to gain a deeper and more comprehensive understanding of the nature of reality.
I tell my friends, “ when the moment of my death comes, the next person you meet will be me.”
I agree.. it refreshing ❤
Is this out there in podcast form? I'd love to listen to this on my long commute!
Will roll it out soon.
Interesting conversation. I like what Bernard said about what makes a virtual reality or even a lucid dream “real” is it’s “communal” I would say a dmt trip can be communal also. Well if we can accept there is a recognisable state in nature we call lucid dreaming, then I would argue there is a recognisable state in nature called ego death. This can be achieved with mushrooms and Bernardo has also experienced this(thats why I like and respect him so much he took the dive). When you undergo ego death always the ego dissolves into the infinite. You are infinite What do I mean well I argue you are an infinite thing , example imagine an elephant in middle of a field. I go stand on a certain spot I look 👀 at the 🐘 and imagine we some how capture an image of what I see. Then you go stand on the same spot look at elephant we capture an image of what you actually see, then we compare the images. Can you see they will not be identical maybe your eyes are better then mine? Then now we do the same for every creature on earth from an eagle to a frog to a mosquito every creature in the UNIVERSE. Now go to that spot get your phone out take a photo then do same for every camera ever invented, every x ray images mri scan telescopes, image the elephant from that spot with every possible technology in the universe. Now how many images do we have of elephant 🐘 which is the correct ✅ one? And who is the judge? Should we ask the eagle or an alien 👽 to look at the images compare them all and choose the right one? Should we somehow superimpose the infinite images on top of each other? They will all be different in fact 🐘 is an infinite thing just like anything else including you or reality itself. Reality is a “physical universe” reality is “pure consciousness “ reality is “a creation of god” reality is “information “ reality is “matter” reality is “fluctuating quantum fields” reality is “fine tuned” reality is “a dream” reality is “a simulation “ reality is AN INFINITE OBJECT! :)
Bernard and Bernardo are, very simply,
different instances of the being-conscious-process.
We humans are too much in concepts of words generally. Reality offers its truth quite more tangible when we are just still or in natural flow by action.
The answer is… Because we are not the body! We are the spirit and consciousness! The body belongs to the family call of that comes from the DNA of the family!
In ancient Iranian Zoroastrian texts there are definitions of different time dimensions, that in the beginning of creation is the creation of time dimensions of different extension. For instance one time is called dagrand-zamân which is a universal immense time that is hyper extended, and then other sorts of time are created in which human life can appear. Also time is seen as cyclic. There is also the notion of a God that is the origin of God himself. That entity is called Zarwân which means Time. From Zarwân God and Devil appears.
Why am I me not you ? Also: why is here not there, and why is before not after ? Normally, people stop asking these "questions " around age 10.
Good discussion
This was excellent!
If it wasn't for archetypes Charles Dickens would have died broke.
I wish I had a $ for everytime I've asked myself why I'm me, and not someone else. Most of my problems would be solved.
Fascinating conversation. Thanks.
What would you like the uni verse to be
Instead of all never ending
Debates
Why does consciousness disassociate?
I’ve always had this question about Idealism. Bernardo has answered this by saying it’s nature and that’s just what nature does and says that we know this because it happens with humans now. I don’t love that but he sees it as trivial. To be clear I love Kastrup and I consider myself now and idealist but I’m with you on wanting a better understanding of it. I have a feeling that it may be more a spiritual than a scientific answer. Bernardo is a naturalist so to him we know dissociation happens so it will naturally happen if it’s possible that it can happen. Not a great answer. I’d love to have a better explanation too!
We also always only compare ourselves on a conscious level because both of us have consciousness, we ask the question of why i am me and not you.
I have potassium, and so does a banana, but i am not the banana, and the banana isn't me.
Actually, what is "you"
I think it isn't a fixed state. I think "you" forms and changes with time, and there is an illusion of continuous.
So how does why am i me instead of you make sense when youre not even you from a second ago?
Ultimately, all of the you's, me's and I's are superimpositions in/as the universal Absolute Continuum of Pure Consciousness, Brahman. It's a vast Ocean of Sat-Chit-Ananda. Everything in the universe is That Consciousness. However, in a conventional sense, there are obviously separate entities like Car and Kastrup. Such apparently separate entities exist simultaneously within and as the Continuum of Pure Consciousness. It's the Buddhists concept of "The Simultaneity of Oneness and difference". The error (Maya) is the false notion that apparently discrete things have an existence apart from Consciousness. I am That, You are That, all This (the entire universe), is That.
Universal Consciousness is divided into divided consciousness, how it fragments?
These fragments can be excitations in universal consciousness and why this happens because Universal Consciousness desires to "be". Idea of desire would be important.
Interesting to see 2 x Bernard talking about the same things:)
each brain has different awareness, in particular of mind / consciousness?
I had this very idea about mental dimensions and present moment expansion and contraction with more specific detail back in my teens and it could explain a mulititude of psychic phenomena, except as I grew more scientifically and skeptically minded I realized it explained phenomena that have never been proven to even occur at all beyond more mundane explanations. To my way of thinking, calling objective events mental or physical phenomena makes little if any difference with no pragmatic utility in preferring mental to the material. As they began talking about Buddhism the idea of nonduality should have come up whitch concurs with this observation.
I have read and given away his books, they are meant for the collective me! (i keep buying them though...)
Q. Bernard, Bernardo: Why identity doesn’t take place in this conversation? You have to experience like Bernardo to be Bernardo
Our body is in our Consciousness.😊
I used to wonder about how when I was conceived my father released thousands of sperm cells out of which only one fertilized my mother's egg. What if instead of sperm cell A which fertilized the egg it was sperm cell B? Would that mean that I would not exist as Steven or perhaps a different Steven or even a Stephanie?
Absolutely fascinating! I will have to listen to all this again! Could one say that nature/God "created" humans to introduce metacognition into reality? That is to be aware and think about itself, sentient beings being part of creation? Maybe as a homeostatic agent to make, create things and ideas/values to stabilize and correct situations? Then wouldn't that have been deliberate? So many questions ... Thanks so much Bernard and Bernardo! 🌿
What kind of asinine psychobabble/bullshit is "metacognition? They mumbo, you jumbo; metacognition my arse