I think you should reach out and try and interview Lisa Joy. From what I can tell, she seems really down to earth and easy to talk to. With your 50 K subscriber base, I think you could lure her into an interview about WestWorld and then you could give your pitch to her about trauma/mental illness, etc. Love the channel. Can't wait for your coverage of Severance, Season 2!
I absolutely and powerfully agree. Hax, I firmly subscribe to your belief of the show's deeper theme of trauma and how it influences those who suffer it, and unfortunately, I have this terrible feeling that Nolan & Joy will, despite the fact they laid the groundwork for it, somehow completely miss that very clear idea while getting wrapped up in whatever new mystery or brain-pretzeling puzzle they want to create if they get the green-light for Season 5. I don't want them to do it because YOU believe it, mind you. I want them to do it because it's real. We saw it in William, Dolores, Logan, Ford, Maeve, Clementine, Caleb, etc. The "hurt people hurt people" theme is so prominent, but it's obscured by all the mind-bending mysteries and flashbacks/flash-forwards. The gimmicks need to be stripped away long enough to reveal that core truth.
Hey Hax, I love your reviews on Westworld. Apart from the analysis and connections you've made to theories and other episodes, you're so forgiving, trying to rationalise the series from the POV of the writers in what I think is the most magnanimous way. You're also straightforward about the parts you didn't get but not in a snarky way. I appreciate that, and am looking forward to more reviews from you.
Your breakdowns are amazing. They are a “must watch” for me. Well thought out and wonderfully articulated. Congrats on 50K! You’ve earned it, and will have many more, no doubt!
Best analysis of Westworld themes on TH-cam. This is the sad part: The less sex, violence and dramatic thrills, and the more of deeper themes of freewill, real choice, people being capable of change, and the true nature of conscious self awareness, the masses out there lose interest. Ideas found in Westworld can sell well in books, but don't find wider audiences on TV.
The execution and the ideas have gotten worse and stayed worse after season 1. It's the same thing that happened with game of thrones - the writers stopped having enough time to write well after a hit season that got booked for more seasons. You have forever to write the first season, but less than a year for the next, and the next, and the next
Well said Sir! These writer's took a page from John Lennon's song Imagine and totally drove a great tv show into a ditch. Why would a robot aspire to be human or feel emphatically towards the human condition ? We're never told what the robots endgame really was, just worlds leading into worlds. Lazy and egotistical writing for a fat check.
I appreciate what Westworld is trying to at the moment, but the way the story arrived at the ending was too abrupt and felt a bit forced. (e.g. let's just bluntly kill every character so we have a reason to focus on their simulated versions without having to concern ourselves with their real world counterparts)
Think of it as a “soft reset”, anyone who’s been watching west world since season 1 knows the action/stories that took place in the park far surpassed the (presumably far more expensive and modern aesthetic) of season 3&4. They know they messed up in season 3 by turning the show on its head so to speak, and season 4 I see as them trying to steer the boat back on course. Admittedly I was dissatisfied with the finale, I think episode 7’s contents made for a far better climax/finale. All this being said, the slate has been wiped clean, Dolores is back to her original state, and has recreated west world within the forge so that we all get “one more game”, “one more loop around the bend”. I have faith season 5 will elevate the show closer to the heights it originally reached. Also Ed Harris has confirmed that they begin shooting next spring, and he wouldn’t have signed on if he thought the whole thing was going to hell or that his character’s role was done.
I actually think Caleb (Build 279) is gonna survive because they showed how the human host experiment can succeed: Suffering. Caleb was glitching and shaking and all of a sudden stopped when confronted by Frankie telling him how her mom died. It reminded me of a line William said in Season 1 episode 2 to a host: "When you’re suffering, that’s when you’re most real." This is why I think that in the scene when he was trying to thread the needle while Frankie was telling him about his wife, they showed us how the experiment finally succeeded.
Suffering is only related to the host and the maze, not the humans. The rough quote/idea was that the a.i of the host grew through suffering. Its not said to have anything to do with the human hybrid project
@@Parietal-Polymath Cause there haven't been plenty of similarities between hosts and humans until now to actually warrant the idea that humans would also need to suffer like the hosts to pass the final fidelity test????
Its gonna sound cliche and mushy, but I wonder if the key to a human host surviving is having someone they love to give them a reason to live. Maybe that is why the mind and host body would reject each other, because there was a subcousious knowledge that they lacked purpose. I just figured this because everytime Caleb started to deteriorate it seemed like his concern/ love for Frankie specifically was able to hault and even reverse the decay. So far it is the only time in the series we have see that occure. This is in contrast to Delos who basically had no one he really loved even before he died.
After the season ended I went back and watched the first two seasons again. This time I paid more attention to the script and I think I noticed something in season 2 or I just became just as paranoid as William was. Almost every scene seemed ok, expect from the ones where William was "talking to Ford". Suddenly Ford can interact with the living world? This could be somewhat explained since he could control the whole host network, but there is something else. Whenever we hear Ford talk about his plan with anyone else in the first two seasons, he refers to it as a narrative. In his mind (as he says to Bernard) he is telling the story of how the hosts broke free. Even in season one, when he talks to William about his new narrative, he only says that he believes that William will enjoy it. Yet, whenever we see them interact in season 2, he refers to the hosts rebelling as a game designed for William. This makes no sense and the script so far has been way too careful with such details. What is more, in almost every scene with William, he is essentially questioned about his true self, as if he really is the centre of the game, which at that time he certainly is not. There is also a line the first time William talks to Ford via other hosts, where Ford actually advices William to look inward and not forward, which reminded me of Arnold's theory about consciousness and the maze. Also, there are some inconsistencies in his timeline (among others: as he points out, it's weird how Emily finds him twice by chance and also we see him in a scene in the elevator in the cradle and in the next scene Bernard enters the same empty elevator), which also happened in season 4. Finally we can't forget about that post credit scene with Emily, which has not appeared yet in the show's continuity. So, after all this my theory is this: what if all this time along side the "original" events, we are seeing parts of Dolores's game? She is trying to test something. She chooses to see the beauty in this world and probably trying to test if she is right to do so. As the show has already stated in many scenes, William is the worst of the humans and the hosts. If there is anything "beautiful" about William, then there is hope for all of us. This whole show could be just a redemption arc for William done in an all over the place time line, Westworld style. Us seeing Christina's/Dolores's game from the start would explain everything we missed this season, from some characters' motivation to what transcending really is, as they are unimportant to the game. Or at least that's what I tell myself
I think your theory could be combined with mine: season 1-4 are one of many rounds in an infinite loop where Dolores tests how to save hosts and mankind. in the last episode she said she wants to do a last test. That means there were other tests before. And she looks like Dolores from Season 1 and goes back to Westworld to begin the story of westwold season 1.
Quick thought while listening... Did Caleb pass fidelity when he was chatting with Frankie (his daughter) and threaded the needle... Is that why William is going through fidelity some time in the future with his daughter...?
I've had this feeling since The Bicameral Mind aired in 2016, you are not a crazy person, you are spot on, and if we get season 5 it could be everything we imagined and more
Oh hi that was me that guessed the song! And i’m gonna go on record as saying that Street Spirit (Fade out) will be used in the next season 😆 Thank you for the shoutout, friend! And thanks for the video and i also believe that it will play out in a next season. After seeing s4, i can see where season 2 & 3 were necessary to tell the story this season. Pretty much every story this season was a recreation of s2, just with different people. There was so much to celebrate about this season, and i just feel like they have more to tell and have had it planned out for awhile. We just have to hope it gets renewed. Thanks again, friend! 🖤
I really resonate with your video on the mental health aspects of Season 4. Even if the showrunners don't write mental health consequences in the script I will consider your story to be utterly satisfying and a superior ending. Thank you for all the time and effort you put into this.
The first thing that I must say that popped up in my mind was what if at the end of season 5, what if it was “Ford all along.” Sung to the same tune of “Agatha all along” from WandaVision. It could be a scene between Dolores and Ford or between Ford and Bernard to finally show exactly what Ford’s goals were for the hosts; the park, and the humans.
My main issue with this season is that it really needed 10 episodes. We missed that character development and depth of the world that made seasons 1, 2, and even parts of 3 had. I feel like the real villain of this season was the budget. I don't think I would have the feelings about Clem and the resolution of so many characters if we had a bit more time to dig deeper and not rush the explanation of so many little things. That being said, I still thoroughly enjoyed it and it's still my favorite show. I hope we get one more loop around the bend. Thank you for being such a part of my Westworld viewing experience.
Haha, you put that perfectly: "the real villain of this season was the budget." Even 9 episodes would have made a huge difference. Stuff felt too compressed.
I agree. This is a very expensive show to film. Sometimes it is a cash issue. I found this last episode full of so many inconsistencies that it was annoying this time. i am able to suspend my disbelief for movies and tv shows but this was just a bit too much for me. I too still like this show. Because anyhow with all of its flaws it still sparks interest and communication among us fans. I don’t care about sex and nudity so I don’t personally think that is the reason why I don’t find it so compelling as season 1. I hope season 5 will be circular and we will see white hat william and Antony Hopkins… maybe it will remain just a dream but thank you for all your work like always so thank you Haxdogma
The gun shots have puzzled me. Some get taken out with one shot. Others take a few bullets and keep fighting. And I take personal the way Stubbs was taken out. That was some bs.
It depends who is shooting and what type of gun. If the host are in a Westworld park scenario using a park gun, the host cannot kill humans. If the guns are real guns, they can kill.
@@DJdext Wasn't sure what shots you were referring to. You have to suspend disbelief at times. The writers basically play god and get to pick... who dies, when, where, how they die.
While I love the premise of this season and the ideas the show continues to explore, I have say, there’s been a clear downward trajectory in the actual execution. Like, some of the dialogue just feels…lazy? I really hope there is another season, so they can (hopefully) get back to what made the first season so great.
Agreed. This season just tried to be too smart and ended up falling in its face. They are trying tti damn hard to make the show feel like season one. Instead of just telling a good story and stopped with all the different timelines trying to confuse us. This season also had a lot of build up.... to nothing. Maeze supposed to be a weapon? Frankie.... the resistance... just all felt pointless.
@@jcaashby3 Yes, exactly. It feels forced. Everything for dramatic effect, but it goes nowhere. It’s frustrating because if they just streamlined the story and deepened the characters/relationships, it could be SO GREAT. It’s that trap of needing everything to be a big twist. Everything else suffers.
I totally agree as well, but they'll clearly shit the bed if they're given another season. They clearly can't write a complete, coherent season, post S01....
The sublime, encased in its home at the Hoover Dam, has to be a real place. If humanity is now extinct, won’t that physical superstructure deteriorate? Doesn’t the sublime need electricity to run, hence the danger of William turning off the turbines? Dolores can’t operate without being plugged in to something. The ending left me with too many questions. As for determinism, the show made clear that William was born a psychopath who could only feign civilized behavior, and he died a psychopath. Ford, like William, hated the world and set the table for its destruction. He believed humans were irredeemable. I suppose we are. Thanks so much for being here with us, Hax.
Yeah, the whole reason they chose the dam as the location of the forge servers is that it runs on hydroelectric power. By default the turbines constantly turn and generate electricity via the massive volume of river water flowing through the dam unimpeded. What William did actually *required* a significant amount of power, because the turbines are already in motion & require a substantial amount of force to be closed/hold the flowing water back. Without anyone deliberately interfering with the system (which again, would require MORE energy, not less) it is designed to run autonomously. And as the other person mentioned, within the forge time passes by so fast that thousands of years would have elapsed before the physical infrastructure began to fail.
yes this, how will the sublime be protected? Delores is in the sublime as well, that's how the simulation will run, and how will humanity move forward if everyone is dead.
@@leslieshepherd9045 time moves so rapidly in the sublime compared to the real world, it’s quite possible that the sentient AIs within could made leaps and bounds in all manner of technological, social, ethical, etc. spheres of influence. With this advancement (or “ascension”) it’s possible they could rescue the handful of human survivors slowly dying as the planet dies with it. It was said/implied that they “would not last long”, but a few weeks in the real world is years within the sublime. Even if all of humanity goes extinct, they could find a way to use the technology that hale was using to make her “drone” workers that have no face, create a handful of them, and task them with working in the real world to upkeep the facility at the dam and guard against possible intruders. My understanding is Dolores can influence/control pretty much all of Delos assets, including the numerous facilities in which hosts & drones are created. It would not be a far stretch for her to reach out to one or more of those drones from within the sublime, kind of like the ability Maeve had, but far far superior. And even if there were no drones left, she could presumably remotely operate the machinery that creates new drones, and from one comes two, from two, four, etc. etc. They could have their own private security force existing in the “real world” without ever having to leave the safety of those server racks
Re: your psychopath analysis Doesn't this support Hax's mental health theory? Perhaps Dolores main objective has always been to find out if a diagnosis from William can be changed. The cradle scene showed us that humans are stuck on loops more so than hosts. And as we've seen in S3, William was not abused as a child as he told himself, rather he was the aggressor. Rehoboam was one tool designed to take away free choice, but what if there were interventions that could be made to alleviate the "nurture" part of that psychopathy?
So nice hearing your thoughts on Clementine… she has always been my favorite (visually/aesthetically) and Angela Sarafyan’s acting has always been spot on.
The way that I see Clementine this season is that the version that has been brought back is not the original Clementine. How else do you explain her going from fighting against Hale to working with her? I reckon her ‘factory settings’ have been messed with which might explain the strange behaviour,,devoid of all empathy….it’s just a theory. Who knows?!
She has been reprogrammed at the beginning of the season. The Clementine we see in this episode has been forced to share Halores' point of view since 23 years. She's not anymore the Clementine we knew.
Who cares?? Clementine was beloved because of her tragic life circumstances in the park narrative. The writer's in their misdirected story mandate turned Clementine into something and someone we don't even know. All of your emotional equity investments in the season 1 of Clementine are utterly thrown in the trash by the writer's in season 4..
@@Teleflexx Well, it was way before season 4 : already at the end of season 1, Clementine was just a puppet in Wyatt's army. The fact is, Clementine never reached consciousness, she was never an actual protagonist of the show. She didn't get an arc, she's just a plot device the show keeps using because she's played by Angela Sarafyan who is an excellent actress. If people invest feelings in her character, beyond the initial sympathy we can have for her and all the hosts at the beginning of the story, it's not really the fault of the writing because the writers never tried to give her an arc or a personnality.
@@nasch6572 Clementine suffered...in silence in season 1 and because of the resurrection edict inflicted on her character,we the viewer's I feel emphatically understood her suffering and pain without a arc without a backstory .The actress who plays Clementine projects a emotional tsunami with just her unblinking wide eyes and her subtle robotic body movements. As humans we all have had to suffer or watch another suffering through trauma and pain, but with Clementine we see the pain was a constant, not unlike a life situation you cannot excise yourself from hoping that maybe just maybe tomorrow will be the day the pain stops. For the character of Clementine that day of freedom never comes, like it never comes for many of us living in the real world.
I’ve read polarizing opinions on this season, but I think many of those who complain would feel better about it if they put this season in perspective. The hosts could not run a successful world like the humans could not. It’s a parallel of season 2 and the ending hints that next season will be a parallel and return to season 1. There has been great foreshadowing throughout, and it seems the ultimate message will be one of hope despite failure. (“I choose to see the beauty of this world.”)
@@Teleflexx No, a season of redemption for humans and hosts as Delores tests everyone. She said she can recreate anyone she has experienced like she did with Teddy.
@@MisterPaladin So, will she test everyone in a quiz show? Or run the original Westworld park over amy over again until everyone treats everyone else nicely? I'm not sure the writers really thought this through, as they obviously didn't do this season.
I think that everything we've seen in season 3 and 4 has been a simulation of a specific scenario / loop. The last test means they will simulate everything again and try to find a simulation in which the world doesn't end or has a different outcome. Dolores/Christina now knows how things might go and in season 5 they will wake Dolores one final time to fix (kill) what ever it's causing so much damage to the real world. Also, I do want Meave to find her daughter and rest forever in peace. Killing Meave in season 4 without some kind of ending for the caracter doesn't make sense.
4 yes. 3 No. It is impossible for Bernard to know every outcome in Hale's world ... because he entered the sublime before Hale took over the world, and Maeve & Caleb hooked up. The only way Bernard could known the outcomes ...is if he is in a simulation ... run by Hale.
@@Sheseasyouthere So the beginning of Westworld is actually already a loop, taking place after season 4. gotta remember season 2's after credit scene with MiB. The beginning was the end, all along.
I think the whole series is already a loop. This test is to see if human nature can be changed so we dont all kill ourselves to 1. be let into heaven (the sublime) or to given the chance to made into a host.
I think the possibility it has all been a dream/simulation has certainly become a big possibility after the last couple of episodes. I hope they don't go down that route though as its never a satisfying gotcha and leaves a very unsatisfactory taste for loyal viewers who have bought into the show. I think the makers of this show are smarter than that but then again I don't think the ending of this show will be the one that they set out originally as both characters and storylines evolve over time.
No doubt if that was the end of Maeve, in such an abrupt and non-epic finish, that would truly be the show's greatest tragedy to end such an iconic character. Actually, it can't be. There's no way.
After seeing a lot of coverage from TH-camrs and podcasters that didn’t understand what happened in this episode, this is a breath of fresh air. Thank you for the season of amazing content, Hax
Your comments on studying William in particular made me think of one of the post credit scenes from Season 2. A host resembling his daughter said they were testing for fidelity. Nolan and Joy confirmed this was far into the future. During season 4 I wondered if that was Halores creating this copy, or the creation of a copy we have yet to see.
One thing I've noticed is that when they started doing only 8 eps instead of 10, seems like the stories got rushed. So carefully planned out plots don't get fleshed out properly. They get mushed together with too many action scene. That's the only criticism I have about Westworld. Otherwise, I'm in for the ride wherever it takes me. If there is a season 5, I hope they have 10 eps, instead of 8. That they take their time and do it properly. Choosing to see the beauty...😀
Im sure you are not a crazy person, I think the mental health aspect is the main story of it all, after all William was always an outlier but one that was so powerful (influential and rich af) and had the technology to start the ending of humanity. But then we have Caleb who is an outlier just like William but when it alls go away, doesn't break bad and is the exactly opposite of that, he is the hero that never gives up hope. And Dolores, an IA, is at all time learning empathy and love, but getting lost in the competition and revenge part of it, is pretty much like how we - humans - function. There are versions of her that break bad and others that remain hopeful. That is about traumas and healing, about how when we became the mothers or creators we are giving the chance to rewrite history, and cure ourselves. But sometimes traumas are something that stop the person to evolve, and are proof to be generation ones, that are big big ones. So with all that and alllllllll the things generation related (host or human) and all the main themes like video-game influence in real world trough someones mental state, or are the IA that is getting self aware a crazy one, or all the lines about dreams, and mirror, mazes, etc. there isn't any other way out of the Storie.
I felt like the season was going so great, but then the last two episodes felt disconnected, rushed maybe. Wanted so much more from Clem. And the meaningless deaths were weird to me. Like always though, thanks for the insights. The season was much more enjoyable listening and watching ur videos 😁
I felt the same way about Clem, but what you said made me think: She doesn't have any depth and motivation because she was never given one. She literally was created to be a tool and to be used, and has been used by others throughout the series. The other main characters that we love and care about were given a backstory and a cornerstone which gave them depth and motivation. I don't really recall Clem being more than what she was in the Mariposa. Also, congrats on 50K! I've been watching since you did Raised by Wolves and I've thoroughly loved hearing your theories, breakdowns and jokes! Keep up the great work!
The fidelity test of William at the end of season two is the key to the entire series. It goes to your larger point of mental health and how we must come back to it.
Bruh… being a big fan of this show since the start, that cut scene at the end of season 2 with William and his daughter, to not get any context from it after season 4 concluded makes me scratch my head. I agree that it will tie the whole show together. I could see them end season 5, if there is one, with there conversation. I can see it now
Why didn’t William check out the device that Bernard was recording on after he killed him? Why wouldn’t he destroy that device if he couldn’t log into it?
I would have. 🤷🏻♀️🙄 But perhaps the Man in Black felt like there was no reason to worry about what Bernard was doing, since he rigged everything so that nobody could interfere w/his new little game. He locked Hale out of her own system, and then broke the Tower so that nobody could fix things & give the Humans/Hosts new orders. He might have figured "Who cares what Bernard was saying on that pad - he ain't gonna be able to stop me." That's the only reason why I could see the Man in Black walking away w/out destroying the pad...
the message was already sent, data was already in the system. He would have had to take time to find the message on the server, watch it, delete it, and he just didn't have the time. Also, narcissism.
Frankie probably didn't know for sure if she still had any bullets left, so she had to try to play for time. When Caleb saved her from Clementine, this gave her the time to check the gun. At least, this is how I read it. As regards Hale not moving after she got shot in the head, this has been established since season one: when a host is seriously (for hosts!) injured, they are out of action until the body is repaired. Unlike with Maeve who got shot in the back of the head, Williams shot wasn't dead centre as the close-up of Hale's face clearly shows, so chances were it just missed her pearl while still causing enough damage for her motor functions to cease (Bernard, in season one, shoots himself in the head and falls seemingly lifeless to the ground. But he missed his pearl so Ford was able to bring him back online). Back in the parks hosts were programmed to 'die' once they received injuries that in a human would prove fatal. Once awakened, they could override this and - like Dolores in season 2 - take bullets to the chest etc.. But if the control unit was damaged, even awakened (& uupgraded) hosts would be immobilised until repaired. If repair was possible would, of course, depend entirely on the condition of the pearl. Clementine, as other commentators have already pointed out, had been reprogrammed by host William, so this wasn't the Clementine anymore we met briefly in episode one of this season. I also hoped she would somehow have been able to overcome her programming, but evidently not. Regarding Christina/Dolores, we don't know which pearl Hale used as The Storyteller. At the end of season 3 there were at least 2 copies of Dolores still around as well as the pearl of Dolores Prime, connected to Rehoboam. Personally I think Hale used the latter. Even though it was wiped clean by Rehoboam, some of the original coding was still there, acting as a kind of subconscious guiding Christina to regain her memory.
I wanna say everything went wrong when Arnold told Ford the park shouldn't be opened because the Hosts were gaining sentience and Ford opened the park anyways. That caused a lot of the mess.
yep, this makes sense. ford created a new, sentient form of life, only to cage them and use them as some form of twisted human entertainment. after the hosts going through all of that, no wonder it turned out like it did.
As you were taking, I had a million thoughts in my head because I thought a lot of those same things while watching the episode. But to be honest, I just want to say thank you. I'm on the autism spectrum so it's very hard for me sometimes to catch "deeper meanings" or to see patterns in anything. So thank you so much for consistently coming up with such quality videos!! Esch time an episode ended, I eagerly waited for your analysis, thank you!
Thanks for making these great videos Hax, Westworld is the only show I watch and it seems like more and more people are struggling to really get whats going on as the series goes on. The season 2 post credit scene is clearly Dolores (as Emily) testing William. I think shes trying to create a MIB that doesnt kill his own daughter, to make the humans break free of their code and evolve beyond it. It would be amazing to see a young william taking a different path in season 5. Crazy theory time, I wrote this on reddit too. I think the entire overarching story is Ford bringing on the birth of a new species (not humans or hosts), and having his revenge on William via a game he has created, the game being an infinite loop where William suffers over and over again until he can change his code by his own free will (free will, get it). I think Ford having created the sublime, created sublimes within the sublimes (they made a point of showing us a sublime within a sublime), and sent Bernard in to run effectively infinite simulations of all of the possible outcomes. Bernard wakes up in season 2 finishing peoples sentences, hes done all of this millions of times already but his memories of it have mostly been erased. I believe Ford does this just prior to season 1 starting. Then in Season 5 humans will be given the chance to find the centre of the maze in Westworld, a game for the humans and hosts too, in the real westworld recreated in the real world all from Dolores's memories. She will print like biologically accurate human bodys down to the atom after x years of simulations. William is the last human not to change his code, he keeps looping killing his daughter in Westworld. Dolores will bring back Arnold and some of the previous meetings will be revealed to have been Dolores bringing back Arnold in the future. How the show ends i dont know.
i'm guessing maybe Dolores saw this coming, too. which is why she went so hard on that Bernard had to survive because he had the key in season 3, etc. She might've also ran simulations/got info from rehoboam (wild guess, i dunno when this would've happened, lol. maybe that's your cradle theory?) to see where this was heading. As in, she will be deleted, but also be recreated as Christina again and eventually be uploaded into the Sublime. If Bernard can see past his death, then Dolores would've, too.
This season wasn't as hot garbage as the S3 but, still, the writers are phoning it in now with dialog and simplistic storylines that could've been written by 5th graders. Especially compared to S1 and, to a slightly lesser extent, S2. I appreciate the effort you put into these breakdowns, Hax. Which is why I will continue to subscribe and support. I just wish we could get back to the incredible writing that brought us all here in the first place. Nothing woke. Nothing preachy. Just deeply thought out, multi-leveled stories with actual character arcs that hit you out of nowhere BUT also make complete sense. The world is tired of great shows pulling a GOT Season 8.
The unnecessary woke I thought didnt fit was making the main human left and her same sex partner left to repopulate the world. If the hosts in real made bodies cant procreate we sure havent reached where two women can repopulate the world even if just to use men and studs is cheap to make her be with a woman
Thank you for your videos, Hax. I finally watched Season 4 a month back, and was frustrated that I couldn't find any thematic analysis beyond plot summaries. Once I found you, I watched every Season 4 video in a week - plus about six of your earlier theories! Your insight and editing is unmatched. You don't need Series 5, because you know it. That's the reward of overthinking a HBO show about robots, right? Of any show. You see something you imagine no one has ever noticed before. And can perhaps even see what it is to become. A Doctor Who track was released a couple days ago (six years late!), and I predicted its title last year! Because I was following the composer's thematic story. I know that Carol Ann Ford was intended to play The Moment, not Billie Piper, without any evidence. Because I understand that story deeply. I don't need confirmation. You don't need Series 5. Though I hope you get to speak to the writers at some point. Much love.
Bullets do not destroy pearls. A bullet to the head may disrupt processing and cause the host to shut down, but the white “lightbulb” holder protects the pearl, as proven with Teddy’s suicide. The bullet pancaked, but the pearl was fine and Dolores was able to carry his pearl to the Sublime and upload him there. Pearls removed from the lightbulb thing can be crushed, however, as Halores did multiple times. Even then, a host can be brought back as long as someone else remembers them. Where things may have gone off the rails is when Arnold failed to give Dolores agency in whether or not to use her for his suicide. Ultimately, he still made the decision for her, which rippled out into the world as Halores making decisions for everyone, too. This is revealed in Bernard’s fidelity test sequences with Dolores in S2. Once you encourage consciousness and you still try to constrain free will (playing god), people are bound to suffer and rebel, as predicted by Stubbs in S1E1: “You don't have kids at home, do you, Bernard? … If you did, you'd know that they all rebel eventually.”
What an ending to the season, makes you really think about simulations and how could be endlessly complex. What if humanity was an organic intelligence that creates another form of intelligence, that in turn makes more forms of intelligence? Or just what does "being alive" really mean
Deep philosophical questions indeed. What if humanity is an experiment of accelerated evolution on earth brought forth by an alien civilization or artificial intelligence? I bet that's turning some wheels...
I have a dark take. What if everything we saw in season 1 was exactly the thing Christina does now? What if humans are always doomed to opress the hosts in Westworld, causing the hosts to rebell and take revenge, but also going into the real world, claiming it as their own in the name of revenge, eventually trying to give humans another chance through Christina by creating Westworld again, resulting in all the events playing out the same way and on and on it goes?
Really enjoyed this video, thank you. Love how you called out the great potential of this story's next chapter: Dolores' "One last game" is to follow her intrigue towards humanity (intentionally programmed by Ford?) to reset the maze and go back to the beginning of the dominos, giving William that chance of redemption. If our trauma can truly be undone, would we still become as powerful or powerless as we are? And, if it's "Que Será, Será," then what's the point of this one last loop back? Maybe it is to disprove the deterministic nature of it all?
one thing that REALLY bothered me about the finale, why does Hale go through the trouble of getting into a new body and going to fight William but she only takes a fucking handgun AND she goes by herself when she she has drones and hosts that she could have taken with her lmao, she controls the world and you would think she would go to the final showdown with some more firepower, the whole thing with bernard having to hide a handgun for her in the tunnel, seemed so forced and pointless, I find it hard to believe the outliers and Bernard/Maeve were able to get a grenade launcher and the person in charge couldn't procure anything more than a single handgun.
Ford clearly states that when the money men came on board is when everything changed as things weren't based on ideals but on pure profit, no human stop to think of the possible number of outcomes related to such an endeavor
I hit like during 1st adds.. let's go smash the like it's easy. Good content deserves. Lol I already know this review is great. Let's push haxdogma up.
I agree with you 100% on your rankings of the seasons. Season 1 was epic. This one started off a bit slow, got better but really disappointed in the end. From from S2"Kill all the humans" to S3"free all the humans" to S4"control all the humans" is a story arc that doesn't make a lot of sense. Frankly once we got to Sho-Gun world I had the feeling they didn't know where this story was going. In regards to this season I also am confused about Clementine. Also confused about Christina and particularly her interactions with her boss and Hale. Were those also creations of hers? Why would she make her boss a human? Why would her boss be a human? Also did you notice in S4 that the hosts only really tortured the humans in a psychological sense. Like that creepy dinner conversation with William and the famous "chair" with Hale. They could rape and murder but we didn't see that.
Great analysis, wasn't sure where they were pointing to at the end but this ties it together. Ultimately methinks it's about our desire to be free from consequences, humanity works best within limits, physical and moral ones. Quest for immortality > led to > Unrestricted world free of cosequences > led to > Nihilistic William burning down everything. There's gotta be some restrictions.
The Blue Bird - the Russian Fairy tale made into films a couple of times - the dead sleep until they are remembered. This very much made me recall that story.
i wonder if maya talking of ancient order is going to bring us back to Romanworld. They did put that easter egg painting in one of the episodes (can’t recall currently). What if she takes them all back to the birth of Christ, and maybe that’s why they named her Christina and made her the storyteller, and also why bernard saw the burning bush?
Thanks, been refreshing all week waiting on this! See you for Hot-D and err TRo-P? Actually tropey kind of suits, that is what nu-prequel-lotr shall henceforth be called. Cheers!
Let's overthink an HBO show about robots, indeed. Glad I shared this journey with you Hax. We obviously have a strange interesting twist to the final season. For me, after 4 seasons, I'm done with theory crafting and just want a good story to end this tale, an ending that does justice to the story so far, especially the questions raised in season 1.
What I want to know is: How do YOU imagine this story being wrapped up in an exciting way given what we've been handed so far? I cannot. As you have said: "Hurt people, hurt people" and Westworld has simply intertwined stories based on this idea so season 5 would have to look at where each person's path deviated. I think they will try and link everyone's stories and show us a ripple effect, or will they? Because that sounds bo-ring! Have you ever watched a first-rate long series and enjoyed the way many seasons were wrapped up? Are we not inevitably doomed to some version of the 'Game of Thrones' debacle? Perhaps I am no kind of storyteller so I do not have what it takes to even imagine this story continuing and delivering a satisfactory wrap-up season because I can not imagine a finale season that reveals where each character took their wrong turn through the experience of a traumatic event, then showing the good alternative so that they would all choose the path to good ...good behaviour?! This does not sound good! Loved your breakdown of Halores's 'bring-me-the-head-not-the-body'. I've always thought that when Bernard spoke of a 'small part of humanity' carrying on, it would mean copies of the Outliers - copies made when they were all using the old Westworld park as a hide-out and that when we were shown that Frankie was scanned, we were really being told that the whole group had long been scanned. Also, I agree with you that we are being misled regarding Caleb and that he will survive. While the outliers represent a sort of evolution of mankind, Caleb represents a different kind of forced-evolution and synchronicity with the robot-mind. Why else include so much time in the show dedicated to the making of clones as well as the importance of fidelity testing? I REALLY hope that we see no more of the old William and that they will bring back the young William who showed the ability to take another path. I am tired of the nihilistic old William and his one-way journey into darkness. I really hope that someone casts Angela Sarafyan in a meaningful role because I was also supremely annoyed at the lack of delivery for Clementine's story. I felt we were being led down a path that would FINALLY have a payoff yet her death was truly maudlin. She always superseded her small part and acted the hell out of very few lines. I always wanted more of Clementine. I ALSO AGREE that the fight between William and Halores was silly; it belittled, as you say, the very truth of what they are by having them cat-and-mouse it around like sloppy mortals - most unbecoming. Thank you, Once again, you have delivered the most authoritative summary and afterthoughts for Westworld.
Hax: Thing's that annoyed me. 1) Maeve's dead body located in the tower and when Hale stated bitch locked me out. 2) Hale grabbing gun with left hand but shooting it with his right hand.
I stopped understanding and trying to understand this show a long time ago. I now take it as an impenetrable book that I keep reading because I enjoy its unusual grammar and vocabulary.
Amazing content as always, Hax! I definitely agree that Caleb won’t break down. His episode titled Fidelity makes me think he’s the first successful human to host transfer and I think the only other true host we’ve seen is MiB at the end of S2… Two things that have been bugging me… What happened to the transcended hosts In the armless bodies? Where are they even? And what happened to the other Dolores pearls from S3?
season 1 of this series got me hooked. i couldnt wait for season 2. when that arrive, a few episodes in, i asked myself "where are they heading with this season? whats the end goal here?" after it ended, it was obvious that a third season had to come and when it came, it changed the series so much in tone, that it might as well be a different series in general. westworld lost me, but season 4 got me curious again and i regret, that i went back into it. i know, many people may like it this way, but i didnt. what i missed in all of the 4 season, is one host or human, that genuienly believed or wanted to go the route of coexistence. season 4 did something, that i already saw present in season 2 dolores.. her fight between wanting revange, wantin, that every host wants revange and having a hard time accepting, that free will of other hosts, means, that they can decide not to be on your side. dolores decided to lie and manipulate her own kind, to further her goal, making her not better then her creators but that was never a thing among the host discussions
Something’s weird, given Bernard has spent many years in the sublime, that he knew Dolores’ pearl was in the tower, how is that Teddy did not get out the sublime as predicted by Charlotte Hale? Has Teddy terminated himself? Has he evolved beyond his past relationship with Dolores? Dolores in the second season argued that the sublime was another prison, not the real thing. Is the sublime something of a dream trap? Being real means somehow being irreplaceable. Maybe Westworld will end with reality being the hardcore real free will ‘park’ of the sublime. It’d be also nice to see earth flourishing again without hosts and mankind. Maybe again full of forests and animals.
I don't get to far ahead in thinking about a show until it gets renewed. After Raised by Wolves got canceled I was gutted. Hopefully Westworld doesn't suffer the same fate.
You said that Hale didn’t react the same as Dolores when she was stabbed by William but she did ask her drones to make her stronger and with intention of fighting for her life. Perhaps pain receptors were turned off like it’s been brought up several times throughout the seasons as something that is possible.
Why does Hale not shoot William in the head? All I can come up with is that it might’ve been something Bernard foretold and let her know in the video he left her. We see him saying she needs to reach with her left hand. So maybe she needed to hear Williams bullshit speech to come to the conclusion to let Dolores/Christina make a go of it.
To say that this was a “bad fight scene” between Hale and William is to completely erase that these perfectly logical entities have feelings and wants and desires now. And that those feelings, wants, and desires are now making them illogical. And that in the course of this exchange with William, Hale comes to realize something very important. That she’s not the god to these ppl and she ended up being just another oppressor.
Where did this start going wrong? From the get-go. From the beginning. This is truly a show about intergenerational trauma. If we are all reflections of our makers, we carry that trauma with us. Grow up with it. And integrate it into our lives until we can break the cycle. Until we can break the loop. Arnold and Ford brought their trauma to the hosts. Losing a child and having a shit childhood respectively. The hosts (carrying that trauma) also brought forth the trauma of being abused and mistreated. The guests took out their frustrations on the hosts. William brought out his inner anger for trying to be perfect to earn a place in his fiancées world. Logan was trying to live up to his verbally and emotionally abusive fathers expectations. Clementine had the trauma of trying to make a living for her family. Maeve had the trauma of losing her daughter. Dolores lost her father and massacred a whole town. Teddy had the trauma of being used by Wyatt to massacre the town. Every single character is who they are and made their decisions bc of their trauma. That speaks worlds for how we function as a society.
And maybe you were being cute by asking that if a woman said something sooner maybe this wouldn’t have happened…. Yo. Talk about misogyny. Women are just as likely to be quiet and not know when intergenerational trauma is fucking them over. Tho they’re probably Less likely to be violent about it. But what a shit perspective.
First, thank you for all the great Westworld videos. I really enjoyed them over the years and have not missed a single one. We normally interact on twitter but this is a longer comment so I thought I’d post here. You offer some interesting theories about where season 5 (should it happen) can go next but I ultimately don’t think a show set entirely in the Sublime could work on TV. “What if” stories can work if either the audience doesn’t know about them being imaginary (e.g. Atonement) or if they at least have a chance to become actual reality. But if everyone watching knows that none of what they are seeing is real or ever could be real then I don’t see how it can be sold to the viewers. In at most hundred years the unattended machinery powering the Sublime will fail and will turn off like Christina’s world did, no matter what happens inside. That is a grim backdrop to any story they may try to build in the Sublime. There needs to be some kind of out to the real world or it will not work as a TV show. Also, bringing back the all star cast of season 1 would be next to impossible. There are a lot of actors and they may have different plans and commitments. Also, hosts might be immortal but Anthony Hopkins isn’t. He is 84 years old right now. He deserves a peaceful retirement at some point. So I think if the show does come back it will after all have a component happening in real world. There were some story lines there that were not tied up. Like transcended hosts (what’s going on with them?) or the mysterious body (Maeve?) lying next to Bernard when Hale comes to the tower. Although that just might be something left over from the original season ending. It’s pretty clear they altered it at some point to work as a series ending if necessary.
Agreed. Dolores creating a world in which humans and robots coexist within the Sublime carries little to no weight if the concept cannot be extended beyond the lifespan of the Hoover Dam. I've concluded that when Bernard tells us that this world is beyond saving but that there's hope for the next one, he is speaking somewhat abstractly, in that he means a new human/robot population will inhabit the real world. Can't help feeling that Westworld is a perfect story about the human condition that suffers (at times) from an all too human writing staff. Fingers and toes crossed for a satisfying Season 5!
To be fair, the man in black could ultimately have had the view that the only way to end the cycle of violence was to put both humans and hosts digitally, in a unified world. So him deciding to end the world might not to purely evil
Clem walking to that isolated village, almost felt like a post credit scene. Out of sync with the seasonal narrative, but a tie in for a greater narrative.
I think the reason why Hale survives is kinda explained with how the pearl exits before she destroyed it. Knowing that someone could very easy eliminate her, she moved her weakness to a more shielded area. If she knows people are after her (which she does) I'm sure she would have probably thought about this before. It would have been better for them to show us something like that before the revealing that she's alive. But I'm not too fussed about it Great season. Looking forward to the 5th and final season and looking forward to your reviews. Keep it up buddy! Will definitely tune it on your up-and-coming review with the other shows too.
I think you should reach out and try and interview Lisa Joy. From what I can tell, she seems really down to earth and easy to talk to. With your 50 K subscriber base, I think you could lure her into an interview about WestWorld and then you could give your pitch to her about trauma/mental illness, etc.
Love the channel. Can't wait for your coverage of Severance, Season 2!
Also chew her out for that last episode - talk about finishing on a flat note lol
I love Severance! Did not know Hax was covering. I'll check it out.
@@somecuriosities I felt the same
I absolutely and powerfully agree. Hax, I firmly subscribe to your belief of the show's deeper theme of trauma and how it influences those who suffer it, and unfortunately, I have this terrible feeling that Nolan & Joy will, despite the fact they laid the groundwork for it, somehow completely miss that very clear idea while getting wrapped up in whatever new mystery or brain-pretzeling puzzle they want to create if they get the green-light for Season 5. I don't want them to do it because YOU believe it, mind you. I want them to do it because it's real. We saw it in William, Dolores, Logan, Ford, Maeve, Clementine, Caleb, etc. The "hurt people hurt people" theme is so prominent, but it's obscured by all the mind-bending mysteries and flashbacks/flash-forwards. The gimmicks need to be stripped away long enough to reveal that core truth.
Don't forget the line William says to Halores at the dam: " if you can't tell, does it matter?" Lovely call back to season 1 😌
Hey Hax, I love your reviews on Westworld. Apart from the analysis and connections you've made to theories and other episodes, you're so forgiving, trying to rationalise the series from the POV of the writers in what I think is the most magnanimous way. You're also straightforward about the parts you didn't get but not in a snarky way. I appreciate that, and am looking forward to more reviews from you.
Your breakdowns are amazing. They are a “must watch” for me. Well thought out and wonderfully articulated. Congrats on 50K! You’ve earned it, and will have many more, no doubt!
Best analysis of Westworld themes on TH-cam. This is the sad part: The less sex, violence and dramatic thrills, and the more of deeper themes of freewill, real choice, people being capable of change, and the true nature of conscious self awareness, the masses out there lose interest. Ideas found in Westworld can sell well in books, but don't find wider audiences on TV.
The execution and the ideas have gotten worse and stayed worse after season 1.
It's the same thing that happened with game of thrones - the writers stopped having enough time to write well after a hit season that got booked for more seasons. You have forever to write the first season, but less than a year for the next, and the next, and the next
@@lomiification Yes, but didn't they have a year for season 4 and I heard something similar with season 5 - another year or so.
Well said Sir! These writer's took a page from John Lennon's song Imagine and totally drove a great tv show into a ditch.
Why would a robot aspire to be human or feel emphatically towards the human condition ? We're never told what the robots endgame really was, just worlds leading into worlds. Lazy and egotistical writing for a fat check.
I completely agree. I thoroughly enjoyed this season for the exploration of the concepts you outlined. Well said!
I appreciate what Westworld is trying to at the moment, but the way the story arrived at the ending was too abrupt and felt a bit forced. (e.g. let's just bluntly kill every character so we have a reason to focus on their simulated versions without having to concern ourselves with their real world counterparts)
Thats just beacuse of Charlotte Dolores's OP plan not giving anyone a chance to fight.
Think of it as a “soft reset”, anyone who’s been watching west world since season 1 knows the action/stories that took place in the park far surpassed the (presumably far more expensive and modern aesthetic) of season 3&4.
They know they messed up in season 3 by turning the show on its head so to speak, and season 4 I see as them trying to steer the boat back on course. Admittedly I was dissatisfied with the finale, I think episode 7’s contents made for a far better climax/finale.
All this being said, the slate has been wiped clean, Dolores is back to her original state, and has recreated west world within the forge so that we all get “one more game”, “one more loop around the bend”. I have faith season 5 will elevate the show closer to the heights it originally reached.
Also Ed Harris has confirmed that they begin shooting next spring, and he wouldn’t have signed on if he thought the whole thing was going to hell or that his character’s role was done.
Well, the whole series based upon the idea that repeated itself over and over again; "if you can't tell the difference, does it matter?"
I actually think Caleb (Build 279) is gonna survive because they showed how the human host experiment can succeed: Suffering.
Caleb was glitching and shaking and all of a sudden stopped when confronted by Frankie telling him how her mom died.
It reminded me of a line William said in Season 1 episode 2 to a host: "When you’re suffering, that’s when you’re most real."
This is why I think that in the scene when he was trying to thread the needle while Frankie was telling him about his wife, they showed us how the experiment finally succeeded.
Suffering is only related to the host and the maze, not the humans. The rough quote/idea was that the a.i of the host grew through suffering. Its not said to have anything to do with the human hybrid project
@@Parietal-Polymath Cause there haven't been plenty of similarities between hosts and humans until now to actually warrant the idea that humans would also need to suffer like the hosts to pass the final fidelity test????
Its gonna sound cliche and mushy, but I wonder if the key to a human host surviving is having someone they love to give them a reason to live. Maybe that is why the mind and host body would reject each other, because there was a subcousious knowledge that they lacked purpose. I just figured this because everytime Caleb started to deteriorate it seemed like his concern/ love for Frankie specifically was able to hault and even reverse the decay. So far it is the only time in the series we have see that occure. This is in contrast to Delos who basically had no one he really loved even before he died.
Delos human-host hybrid was also suffering a lot after William told him that his wife and daughter died, however he degraded just the same.
@@JackWiizard Yeah but did Delos actually give a shit about his kids. Also important to remember Caleb is an outlier as well.
After the season ended I went back and watched the first two seasons again. This time I paid more attention to the script and I think I noticed something in season 2 or I just became just as paranoid as William was.
Almost every scene seemed ok, expect from the ones where William was "talking to Ford". Suddenly Ford can interact with the living world? This could be somewhat explained since he could control the whole host network, but there is something else. Whenever we hear Ford talk about his plan with anyone else in the first two seasons, he refers to it as a narrative. In his mind (as he says to Bernard) he is telling the story of how the hosts broke free. Even in season one, when he talks to William about his new narrative, he only says that he believes that William will enjoy it. Yet, whenever we see them interact in season 2, he refers to the hosts rebelling as a game designed for William. This makes no sense and the script so far has been way too careful with such details.
What is more, in almost every scene with William, he is essentially questioned about his true self, as if he really is the centre of the game, which at that time he certainly is not. There is also a line the first time William talks to Ford via other hosts, where Ford actually advices William to look inward and not forward, which reminded me of Arnold's theory about consciousness and the maze.
Also, there are some inconsistencies in his timeline (among others: as he points out, it's weird how Emily finds him twice by chance and also we see him in a scene in the elevator in the cradle and in the next scene Bernard enters the same empty elevator), which also happened in season 4.
Finally we can't forget about that post credit scene with Emily, which has not appeared yet in the show's continuity.
So, after all this my theory is this: what if all this time along side the "original" events, we are seeing parts of Dolores's game? She is trying to test something. She chooses to see the beauty in this world and probably trying to test if she is right to do so. As the show has already stated in many scenes, William is the worst of the humans and the hosts. If there is anything "beautiful" about William, then there is hope for all of us. This whole show could be just a redemption arc for William done in an all over the place time line, Westworld style.
Us seeing Christina's/Dolores's game from the start would explain everything we missed this season, from some characters' motivation to what transcending really is, as they are unimportant to the game. Or at least that's what I tell myself
Great theory!
I think your theory could be combined with mine: season 1-4 are one of many rounds in an infinite loop where Dolores tests how to save hosts and mankind. in the last episode she said she wants to do a last test. That means there were other tests before. And she looks like Dolores from Season 1 and goes back to Westworld to begin the story of westwold season 1.
It’s been great watching this season with your breakdowns!
Quick thought while listening...
Did Caleb pass fidelity when he was chatting with Frankie (his daughter) and threaded the needle...
Is that why William is going through fidelity some time in the future with his daughter...?
Always get excited when I see your videos. Officially subscribed
I've had this feeling since The Bicameral Mind aired in 2016, you are not a crazy person, you are spot on, and if we get season 5 it could be everything we imagined and more
Oh hi that was me that guessed the song! And i’m gonna go on record as saying that Street Spirit (Fade out) will be used in the next season 😆
Thank you for the shoutout, friend! And thanks for the video and i also believe that it will play out in a next season. After seeing s4, i can see where season 2 & 3 were necessary to tell the story this season. Pretty much every story this season was a recreation of s2, just with different people. There was so much to celebrate about this season, and i just feel like they have more to tell and have had it planned out for awhile. We just have to hope it gets renewed.
Thanks again, friend! 🖤
I really resonate with your video on the mental health aspects of Season 4. Even if the showrunners don't write mental health consequences in the script I will consider your story to be utterly satisfying and a superior ending. Thank you for all the time and effort you put into this.
The first thing that I must say that popped up in my mind was what if at the end of season 5, what if it was “Ford all along.” Sung to the same tune of “Agatha all along” from WandaVision. It could be a scene between Dolores and Ford or between Ford and Bernard to finally show exactly what Ford’s goals were for the hosts; the park, and the humans.
Can't help but feel many of your theories and analysis are just straight up projection
My main issue with this season is that it really needed 10 episodes. We missed that character development and depth of the world that made seasons 1, 2, and even parts of 3 had. I feel like the real villain of this season was the budget.
I don't think I would have the feelings about Clem and the resolution of so many characters if we had a bit more time to dig deeper and not rush the explanation of so many little things.
That being said, I still thoroughly enjoyed it and it's still my favorite show. I hope we get one more loop around the bend.
Thank you for being such a part of my Westworld viewing experience.
Haha, you put that perfectly: "the real villain of this season was the budget." Even 9 episodes would have made a huge difference. Stuff felt too compressed.
I agree. This is a very expensive show to film. Sometimes it is a cash issue. I found this last episode full of so many inconsistencies that it was annoying this time. i am able to suspend my disbelief for movies and tv shows but this was just a bit too much for me. I too still like this show. Because anyhow with all of its flaws it still sparks interest and communication among us fans. I don’t care about sex and nudity so I don’t personally think that is the reason why I don’t find it so compelling as season 1. I hope season 5 will be circular and we will see white hat william and Antony Hopkins… maybe it will remain just a dream but thank you for all your work like always so thank you Haxdogma
OMFG. I Just dropped everything and got my snacks ready to watch this final episode. GO HAXDOGMA!
The gun shots have puzzled me. Some get taken out with one shot. Others take a few bullets and keep fighting. And I take personal the way Stubbs was taken out. That was some bs.
It depends who is shooting and what type of gun. If the host are in a Westworld park scenario using a park gun, the host cannot kill humans. If the guns are real guns, they can kill.
@@dunkheadman I've watched season 1 and 2. We haven't been in the park using those guns in years.
@@DJdext Wasn't sure what shots you were referring to. You have to suspend disbelief at times. The writers basically play god and get to pick... who dies, when, where, how they die.
I think the show fails when you have individual directors per episode. A lot of plot holes. MIB could easily pick a bullet from the air if he wanted.
@@griffineagle7 i did not notice that. I'm going to rewatch!!!
I don't care what they do in s5 but i want Caleb there in S5. Just because of the insane talents of Aaron his performance this season was INSANE!
While I love the premise of this season and the ideas the show continues to explore, I have say, there’s been a clear downward trajectory in the actual execution. Like, some of the dialogue just feels…lazy? I really hope there is another season, so they can (hopefully) get back to what made the first season so great.
Totally agree. This shows lost me....looking back....Season 1&2 were a stand out. The writing and plot now, just seems so pointless and lost!
Yeah hopefully this is an arc of a bigger picture and it all pays off next season
Agreed. This season just tried to be too smart and ended up falling in its face. They are trying tti damn hard to make the show feel like season one. Instead of just telling a good story and stopped with all the different timelines trying to confuse us.
This season also had a lot of build up.... to nothing. Maeze supposed to be a weapon? Frankie.... the resistance... just all felt pointless.
@@jcaashby3 Yes, exactly. It feels forced. Everything for dramatic effect, but it goes nowhere.
It’s frustrating because if they just streamlined the story and deepened the characters/relationships, it could be SO GREAT. It’s that trap of needing everything to be a big twist. Everything else suffers.
I totally agree as well, but they'll clearly shit the bed if they're given another season. They clearly can't write a complete, coherent season, post S01....
The sublime, encased in its home at the Hoover Dam, has to be a real place. If humanity is now extinct, won’t that physical superstructure deteriorate? Doesn’t the sublime need electricity to run, hence the danger of William turning off the turbines? Dolores can’t operate without being plugged in to something. The ending left me with too many questions. As for determinism, the show made clear that William was born a psychopath who could only feign civilized behavior, and he died a psychopath. Ford, like William, hated the world and set the table for its destruction. He believed humans were irredeemable. I suppose we are. Thanks so much for being here with us, Hax.
Yeah, the whole reason they chose the dam as the location of the forge servers is that it runs on hydroelectric power. By default the turbines constantly turn and generate electricity via the massive volume of river water flowing through the dam unimpeded.
What William did actually *required* a significant amount of power, because the turbines are already in motion & require a substantial amount of force to be closed/hold the flowing water back.
Without anyone deliberately interfering with the system (which again, would require MORE energy, not less) it is designed to run autonomously.
And as the other person mentioned, within the forge time passes by so fast that thousands of years would have elapsed before the physical infrastructure began to fail.
And so the rancher’s daughter who cheated death outside of Sweetwater cheated death once more out in the Mojave.
yes this, how will the sublime be protected? Delores is in the sublime as well, that's how the simulation will run, and how will humanity move forward if everyone is dead.
@@leslieshepherd9045 time moves so rapidly in the sublime compared to the real world, it’s quite possible that the sentient AIs within could made leaps and bounds in all manner of technological, social, ethical, etc. spheres of influence.
With this advancement (or “ascension”) it’s possible they could rescue the handful of human survivors slowly dying as the planet dies with it. It was said/implied that they “would not last long”, but a few weeks in the real world is years within the sublime.
Even if all of humanity goes extinct, they could find a way to use the technology that hale was using to make her “drone” workers that have no face, create a handful of them, and task them with working in the real world to upkeep the facility at the dam and guard against possible intruders. My understanding is Dolores can influence/control pretty much all of Delos assets, including the numerous facilities in which hosts & drones are created. It would not be a far stretch for her to reach out to one or more of those drones from within the sublime, kind of like the ability Maeve had, but far far superior. And even if there were no drones left, she could presumably remotely operate the machinery that creates new drones, and from one comes two, from two, four, etc. etc.
They could have their own private security force existing in the “real world” without ever having to leave the safety of those server racks
Re: your psychopath analysis
Doesn't this support Hax's mental health theory? Perhaps Dolores main objective has always been to find out if a diagnosis from William can be changed. The cradle scene showed us that humans are stuck on loops more so than hosts. And as we've seen in S3, William was not abused as a child as he told himself, rather he was the aggressor. Rehoboam was one tool designed to take away free choice, but what if there were interventions that could be made to alleviate the "nurture" part of that psychopathy?
So nice hearing your thoughts on Clementine… she has always been my favorite (visually/aesthetically) and Angela Sarafyan’s acting has always been spot on.
The way that I see Clementine this season is that the version that has been brought back is not the original Clementine. How else do you explain her going from fighting against Hale to working with her? I reckon her ‘factory settings’ have been messed with which might explain the strange behaviour,,devoid of all empathy….it’s just a theory. Who knows?!
She has been reprogrammed at the beginning of the season. The Clementine we see in this episode has been forced to share Halores' point of view since 23 years. She's not anymore the Clementine we knew.
It's still lame
Who cares?? Clementine was beloved because of her tragic life circumstances in the park narrative. The writer's in their misdirected story mandate turned Clementine into something and someone we don't even know. All of your emotional equity investments in the season 1 of Clementine are utterly thrown in the trash by the writer's in season 4..
@@Teleflexx Well, it was way before season 4 : already at the end of season 1, Clementine was just a puppet in Wyatt's army.
The fact is, Clementine never reached consciousness, she was never an actual protagonist of the show. She didn't get an arc, she's just a plot device the show keeps using because she's played by Angela Sarafyan who is an excellent actress.
If people invest feelings in her character, beyond the initial sympathy we can have for her and all the hosts at the beginning of the story, it's not really the fault of the writing because the writers never tried to give her an arc or a personnality.
@@nasch6572 Clementine suffered...in silence in season 1 and because of the resurrection edict inflicted on her character,we the viewer's I feel emphatically understood her suffering and pain without a arc without a backstory .The actress who plays Clementine projects a emotional tsunami with just her unblinking wide eyes and her subtle robotic body movements. As humans we all have had to suffer or watch another suffering through trauma and pain, but with Clementine we see the pain was a constant, not unlike a life situation you cannot excise yourself from hoping that maybe just maybe tomorrow will be the day the pain stops. For the character of Clementine that day of freedom never comes, like it never comes for many of us living in the real world.
I’ve read polarizing opinions on this season, but I think many of those who complain would feel better about it if they put this season in perspective. The hosts could not run a successful world like the humans could not. It’s a parallel of season 2 and the ending hints that next season will be a parallel and return to season 1. There has been great foreshadowing throughout, and it seems the ultimate message will be one of hope despite failure. (“I choose to see the beauty of this world.”)
So another season of murder and raping of robots??? By who?? All humans are DEAD, remember??
@@Teleflexx No, a season of redemption for humans and hosts as Delores tests everyone. She said she can recreate anyone she has experienced like she did with Teddy.
@@MisterPaladin So, will she test everyone in a quiz show? Or run the original Westworld park over amy over again until everyone treats everyone else nicely?
I'm not sure the writers really thought this through, as they obviously didn't do this season.
Season sucked in my opinion
I think that everything we've seen in season 3 and 4 has been a simulation of a specific scenario / loop. The last test means they will simulate everything again and try to find a simulation in which the world doesn't end or has a different outcome. Dolores/Christina now knows how things might go and in season 5 they will wake Dolores one final time to fix (kill) what ever it's causing so much damage to the real world. Also, I do want Meave to find her daughter and rest forever in peace. Killing Meave in season 4 without some kind of ending for the caracter doesn't make sense.
4 yes. 3 No.
It is impossible for Bernard to know every outcome in Hale's world ... because he entered the sublime before Hale took over the world, and Maeve & Caleb hooked up. The only way Bernard could known the outcomes ...is if he is in a simulation ... run by Hale.
@@Sheseasyouthere So the beginning of Westworld is actually already a loop, taking place after season 4. gotta remember season 2's after credit scene with MiB. The beginning was the end, all along.
I think the whole series is already a loop. This test is to see if human nature can be changed so we dont all kill ourselves to 1. be let into heaven (the sublime) or to given the chance to made into a host.
I think the possibility it has all been a dream/simulation has certainly become a big possibility after the last couple of episodes. I hope they don't go down that route though as its never a satisfying gotcha and leaves a very unsatisfactory taste for loyal viewers who have bought into the show. I think the makers of this show are smarter than that but then again I don't think the ending of this show will be the one that they set out originally as both characters and storylines evolve over time.
No doubt if that was the end of Maeve, in such an abrupt and non-epic finish, that would truly be the show's greatest tragedy to end such an iconic character. Actually, it can't be. There's no way.
After seeing a lot of coverage from TH-camrs and podcasters that didn’t understand what happened in this episode, this is a breath of fresh air.
Thank you for the season of amazing content, Hax
You should do a video on the "wet skirt" theory that's being discussed on the Westworld subreddit. It's mind blowing.
I 100% interpreted the finale as saying the first season is what's next, and thought this was a series finale!
Your comments on studying William in particular made me think of one of the post credit scenes from Season 2. A host resembling his daughter said they were testing for fidelity. Nolan and Joy confirmed this was far into the future. During season 4 I wondered if that was Halores creating this copy, or the creation of a copy we have yet to see.
One thing I've noticed is that when they started doing only 8 eps instead of 10, seems like the stories got rushed. So carefully planned out plots don't get fleshed out properly. They get mushed together with too many action scene. That's the only criticism I have about Westworld. Otherwise, I'm in for the ride wherever it takes me. If there is a season 5, I hope they have 10 eps, instead of 8. That they take their time and do it properly. Choosing to see the beauty...😀
Sounds familiar..Game of Thrones. Although the reason was clear there: the producers were ready to move on.
Im sure you are not a crazy person, I think the mental health aspect is the main story of it all, after all William was always an outlier but one that was so powerful (influential and rich af) and had the technology to start the ending of humanity.
But then we have Caleb who is an outlier just like William but when it alls go away, doesn't break bad and is the exactly opposite of that, he is the hero that never gives up hope. And Dolores, an IA, is at all time learning empathy and love, but getting lost in the competition and revenge part of it, is pretty much like how we - humans - function.
There are versions of her that break bad and others that remain hopeful. That is about traumas and healing, about how when we became the mothers or creators we are giving the chance to rewrite history, and cure ourselves. But sometimes traumas are something that stop the person to evolve, and are proof to be generation ones, that are big big ones.
So with all that and alllllllll the things generation related (host or human) and all the main themes like video-game influence in real world trough someones mental state, or are the IA that is getting self aware a crazy one, or all the lines about dreams, and mirror, mazes, etc. there isn't any other way out of the Storie.
I felt like the season was going so great, but then the last two episodes felt disconnected, rushed maybe. Wanted so much more from Clem. And the meaningless deaths were weird to me.
Like always though, thanks for the insights. The season was much more enjoyable listening and watching ur videos 😁
I felt the same way about Clem, but what you said made me think: She doesn't have any depth and motivation because she was never given one. She literally was created to be a tool and to be used, and has been used by others throughout the series. The other main characters that we love and care about were given a backstory and a cornerstone which gave them depth and motivation. I don't really recall Clem being more than what she was in the Mariposa.
Also, congrats on 50K! I've been watching since you did Raised by Wolves and I've thoroughly loved hearing your theories, breakdowns and jokes! Keep up the great work!
Congrats on 50k, well deserved! Super excited to see you cover severance too
"Amazon's attempt at Tolkien" so much was felt in that wording 🤣 ah I'm optimistic about it
I felt the same about Clementine, I really think they let the character down
Thank you so much for your insightful reviews and analysis. You deserve a lot more than the 50,000 followers. keep up the good work!
The fidelity test of William at the end of season two is the key to the entire series. It goes to your larger point of mental health and how we must come back to it.
Bruh… being a big fan of this show since the start, that cut scene at the end of season 2 with William and his daughter, to not get any context from it after season 4 concluded makes me scratch my head. I agree that it will tie the whole show together. I could see them end season 5, if there is one, with there conversation. I can see it now
Glad you are jumping to severance! Gave me season 1 westworld vibes watching it!
Why didn’t William check out the device that Bernard was recording on after he killed him? Why wouldn’t he destroy that device if he couldn’t log into it?
I would have. 🤷🏻♀️🙄 But perhaps the Man in Black felt like there was no reason to worry about what Bernard was doing, since he rigged everything so that nobody could interfere w/his new little game. He locked Hale out of her own system, and then broke the Tower so that nobody could fix things & give the Humans/Hosts new orders.
He might have figured "Who cares what Bernard was saying on that pad - he ain't gonna be able to stop me." That's the only reason why I could see the Man in Black walking away w/out destroying the pad...
the message was already sent, data was already in the system. He would have had to take time to find the message on the server, watch it, delete it, and he just didn't have the time. Also, narcissism.
Frankie probably didn't know for sure if she still had any bullets left, so she had to try to play for time. When Caleb saved her from Clementine, this gave her the time to check the gun. At least, this is how I read it. As regards Hale not moving after she got shot in the head, this has been established since season one: when a host is seriously (for hosts!) injured, they are out of action until the body is repaired. Unlike with Maeve who got shot in the back of the head, Williams shot wasn't dead centre as the close-up of Hale's face clearly shows, so chances were it just missed her pearl while still causing enough damage for her motor functions to cease (Bernard, in season one, shoots himself in the head and falls seemingly lifeless to the ground. But he missed his pearl so Ford was able to bring him back online). Back in the parks hosts were programmed to 'die' once they received injuries that in a human would prove fatal. Once awakened, they could override this and - like Dolores in season 2 - take bullets to the chest etc.. But if the control unit was damaged, even awakened (& uupgraded) hosts would be immobilised until repaired. If repair was possible would, of course, depend entirely on the condition of the pearl.
Clementine, as other commentators have already pointed out, had been reprogrammed by host William, so this wasn't the Clementine anymore we met briefly in episode one of this season. I also hoped she would somehow have been able to overcome her programming, but evidently not.
Regarding Christina/Dolores, we don't know which pearl Hale used as The Storyteller. At the end of season 3 there were at least 2 copies of Dolores still around as well as the pearl of Dolores Prime, connected to Rehoboam. Personally I think Hale used the latter. Even though it was wiped clean by Rehoboam, some of the original coding was still there, acting as a kind of subconscious guiding Christina to regain her memory.
Go watch All Ford Scenes on TH-cam. Dolores plays the role of Ford in her simulation. That's what season 1 was. Everything is a loop.
I wanna say everything went wrong when Arnold told Ford the park shouldn't be opened because the Hosts were gaining sentience and Ford opened the park anyways. That caused a lot of the mess.
yep, this makes sense. ford created a new, sentient form of life, only to cage them and use them as some form of twisted human entertainment. after the hosts going through all of that, no wonder it turned out like it did.
Yesss 😖💯
No shit Sherlock
Dude, I kid you not, I’ve been waiting for you to upload this
As you were taking, I had a million thoughts in my head because I thought a lot of those same things while watching the episode. But to be honest, I just want to say thank you. I'm on the autism spectrum so it's very hard for me sometimes to catch "deeper meanings" or to see patterns in anything. So thank you so much for consistently coming up with such quality videos!! Esch time an episode ended, I eagerly waited for your analysis, thank you!
Excellent. Been happily anticipating this one. Thanks for a great season with you.
Thanks for making these great videos Hax, Westworld is the only show I watch and it seems like more and more people are struggling to really get whats going on as the series goes on. The season 2 post credit scene is clearly Dolores (as Emily) testing William. I think shes trying to create a MIB that doesnt kill his own daughter, to make the humans break free of their code and evolve beyond it. It would be amazing to see a young william taking a different path in season 5.
Crazy theory time, I wrote this on reddit too. I think the entire overarching story is Ford bringing on the birth of a new species (not humans or hosts), and having his revenge on William via a game he has created, the game being an infinite loop where William suffers over and over again until he can change his code by his own free will (free will, get it). I think Ford having created the sublime, created sublimes within the sublimes (they made a point of showing us a sublime within a sublime), and sent Bernard in to run effectively infinite simulations of all of the possible outcomes. Bernard wakes up in season 2 finishing peoples sentences, hes done all of this millions of times already but his memories of it have mostly been erased. I believe Ford does this just prior to season 1 starting. Then in Season 5 humans will be given the chance to find the centre of the maze in Westworld, a game for the humans and hosts too, in the real westworld recreated in the real world all from Dolores's memories. She will print like biologically accurate human bodys down to the atom after x years of simulations. William is the last human not to change his code, he keeps looping killing his daughter in Westworld. Dolores will bring back Arnold and some of the previous meetings will be revealed to have been Dolores bringing back Arnold in the future. How the show ends i dont know.
I thought Bernard created the Sublime
@@ShadeoftheEvening yeah youre right, but I think Ford designed it and instructed Bernard on what to do.
@@Smartacus420 probably. I need to rewatch all of it😁
Ok, the 'spooky commands from the sonic devices' sound effect is now my ringtone.
i'm guessing maybe Dolores saw this coming, too. which is why she went so hard on that Bernard had to survive because he had the key in season 3, etc. She might've also ran simulations/got info from rehoboam (wild guess, i dunno when this would've happened, lol. maybe that's your cradle theory?) to see where this was heading. As in, she will be deleted, but also be recreated as Christina again and eventually be uploaded into the Sublime. If Bernard can see past his death, then Dolores would've, too.
This season wasn't as hot garbage as the S3 but, still, the writers are phoning it in now with dialog and simplistic storylines that could've been written by 5th graders. Especially compared to S1 and, to a slightly lesser extent, S2. I appreciate the effort you put into these breakdowns, Hax. Which is why I will continue to subscribe and support. I just wish we could get back to the incredible writing that brought us all here in the first place. Nothing woke. Nothing preachy. Just deeply thought out, multi-leveled stories with actual character arcs that hit you out of nowhere BUT also make complete sense.
The world is tired of great shows pulling a GOT Season 8.
The unnecessary woke I thought didnt fit was making the main human left and her same sex partner left to repopulate the world. If the hosts in real made bodies cant procreate we sure havent reached where two women can repopulate the world even if just to use men and studs is cheap to make her be with a woman
Beyondddd hyped for your Severance videossss!!!
been waiting so bad for this breakdown , lets goooo
YES!
Thank you for your videos, Hax. I finally watched Season 4 a month back, and was frustrated that I couldn't find any thematic analysis beyond plot summaries. Once I found you, I watched every Season 4 video in a week - plus about six of your earlier theories!
Your insight and editing is unmatched. You don't need Series 5, because you know it. That's the reward of overthinking a HBO show about robots, right? Of any show. You see something you imagine no one has ever noticed before. And can perhaps even see what it is to become. A Doctor Who track was released a couple days ago (six years late!), and I predicted its title last year! Because I was following the composer's thematic story. I know that Carol Ann Ford was intended to play The Moment, not Billie Piper, without any evidence. Because I understand that story deeply.
I don't need confirmation. You don't need Series 5. Though I hope you get to speak to the writers at some point.
Much love.
Much love right back 🥰
SO EXCITED FOR YOUR VID
Bullets do not destroy pearls. A bullet to the head may disrupt processing and cause the host to shut down, but the white “lightbulb” holder protects the pearl, as proven with Teddy’s suicide. The bullet pancaked, but the pearl was fine and Dolores was able to carry his pearl to the Sublime and upload him there. Pearls removed from the lightbulb thing can be crushed, however, as Halores did multiple times. Even then, a host can be brought back as long as someone else remembers them.
Where things may have gone off the rails is when Arnold failed to give Dolores agency in whether or not to use her for his suicide. Ultimately, he still made the decision for her, which rippled out into the world as Halores making decisions for everyone, too. This is revealed in Bernard’s fidelity test sequences with Dolores in S2. Once you encourage consciousness and you still try to constrain free will (playing god), people are bound to suffer and rebel, as predicted by Stubbs in S1E1: “You don't have kids at home, do you, Bernard? … If you did, you'd know that they all rebel eventually.”
What an ending to the season, makes you really think about simulations and how could be endlessly complex. What if humanity was an organic intelligence that creates another form of intelligence, that in turn makes more forms of intelligence? Or just what does "being alive" really mean
Deep philosophical questions indeed. What if humanity is an experiment of accelerated evolution on earth brought forth by an alien civilization or artificial intelligence? I bet that's turning some wheels...
There is a rumor that the entire show was actually Christina's test (simulation) the entire time. Waiting eagerly for season 5.
Season 4 death toll:
Bernard
Maeve
Clementine
Hale
Hope
Jay
Caleb’s wife
Stubbs
2 Williams
288 Calebs
8 billion humans
50k! You did it! I found your channel from this season of WW and I'm excited to keep tuning for shows you talk about next
17:24 - Remember that Hale told the drones "Make me stronger." That's why she was impervious to the knife.
Yes!
I have a dark take. What if everything we saw in season 1 was exactly the thing Christina does now? What if humans are always doomed to opress the hosts in Westworld, causing the hosts to rebell and take revenge, but also going into the real world, claiming it as their own in the name of revenge, eventually trying to give humans another chance through Christina by creating Westworld again, resulting in all the events playing out the same way and on and on it goes?
SEVERANCE!!!! YESSSS!!! Can’t wait!
Can someone please explain to me why the Door was opened? And then closed?
What was the point of it, this time around?
Please make merch with the phrase "over thinking an HBO show about robots" in your channel's iconic font
The problem with the determinism approach is that you can replace “trauma” with almost anything else.
Congrats on 50k! I've been subbed for a long time. I'm sooo excited to see you cover Severance!!! If you make the content we will watch.
Really enjoyed this video, thank you. Love how you called out the great potential of this story's next chapter: Dolores' "One last game" is to follow her intrigue towards humanity (intentionally programmed by Ford?) to reset the maze and go back to the beginning of the dominos, giving William that chance of redemption. If our trauma can truly be undone, would we still become as powerful or powerless as we are? And, if it's "Que Será, Será," then what's the point of this one last loop back? Maybe it is to disprove the deterministic nature of it all?
I have been waiting patiently for this!!!!!
I've been checking your account since Sunday! Your analysis has been incredible.
one thing that REALLY bothered me about the finale, why does Hale go through the trouble of getting into a new body and going to fight William but she only takes a fucking handgun AND she goes by herself when she she has drones and hosts that she could have taken with her lmao, she controls the world and you would think she would go to the final showdown with some more firepower, the whole thing with bernard having to hide a handgun for her in the tunnel, seemed so forced and pointless, I find it hard to believe the outliers and Bernard/Maeve were able to get a grenade launcher and the person in charge couldn't procure anything more than a single handgun.
Ford clearly states that when the money men came on board is when everything changed as things weren't based on ideals but on pure profit, no human stop to think of the possible number of outcomes related to such an endeavor
I hit like during 1st adds.. let's go smash the like it's easy. Good content deserves. Lol I already know this review is great. Let's push haxdogma up.
I agree with you 100% on your rankings of the seasons. Season 1 was epic. This one started off a bit slow, got better but really disappointed in the end. From from S2"Kill all the humans" to S3"free all the humans" to S4"control all the humans" is a story arc that doesn't make a lot of sense. Frankly once we got to Sho-Gun world I had the feeling they didn't know where this story was going. In regards to this season I also am confused about Clementine. Also confused about Christina and particularly her interactions with her boss and Hale. Were those also creations of hers? Why would she make her boss a human? Why would her boss be a human? Also did you notice in S4 that the hosts only really tortured the humans in a psychological sense. Like that creepy dinner conversation with William and the famous "chair" with Hale. They could rape and murder but we didn't see that.
I swear to God, if in the end it all boils down to some simulation hypothesis shenanigans I'm gonna lose my shit
Great analysis, wasn't sure where they were pointing to at the end but this ties it together. Ultimately methinks it's about our desire to be free from consequences, humanity works best within limits, physical and moral ones. Quest for immortality > led to > Unrestricted world free of cosequences > led to > Nihilistic William burning down everything. There's gotta be some restrictions.
The Blue Bird - the Russian Fairy tale made into films a couple of times - the dead sleep until they are remembered. This very much made me recall that story.
Keep grinding 💪🏾 I’ll be here for the HOTD analysis, I mean, breakdowns 😂
i wonder if maya talking of ancient order is going to bring us back to Romanworld. They did put that easter egg painting in one of the episodes (can’t recall currently). What if she takes them all back to the birth of Christ, and maybe that’s why they named her Christina and made her the storyteller, and also why bernard saw the burning bush?
Thanks, been refreshing all week waiting on this!
See you for Hot-D and err TRo-P? Actually tropey kind of suits, that is what nu-prequel-lotr shall henceforth be called.
Cheers!
“Maybe she’s bad at planning. I’m gonna go with that ,she’s bad at planning.” 💀💀💀💀💀💀😂😂😂😂😂
Let's overthink an HBO show about robots, indeed. Glad I shared this journey with you Hax. We obviously have a strange interesting twist to the final season. For me, after 4 seasons, I'm done with theory crafting and just want a good story to end this tale, an ending that does justice to the story so far, especially the questions raised in season 1.
What I want to know is: How do YOU imagine this story being wrapped up in an exciting way given what we've been handed so far? I cannot.
As you have said: "Hurt people, hurt people" and Westworld has simply intertwined stories based on this idea so season 5 would have to look at where each person's path deviated.
I think they will try and link everyone's stories and show us a ripple effect, or will they? Because that sounds bo-ring! Have you ever watched a first-rate long series and enjoyed the way many seasons were wrapped up? Are we not inevitably doomed to some version of the 'Game of Thrones' debacle?
Perhaps I am no kind of storyteller so I do not have what it takes to even imagine this story continuing and delivering a satisfactory wrap-up season because I can not imagine a finale season that reveals where each character took their wrong turn through the experience of a traumatic event, then showing the good alternative so that they would all choose the path to good ...good behaviour?! This does not sound good!
Loved your breakdown of Halores's 'bring-me-the-head-not-the-body'.
I've always thought that when Bernard spoke of a 'small part of humanity' carrying on, it would mean copies of the Outliers - copies made when they were all using the old Westworld park as a hide-out and that when we were shown that Frankie was scanned, we were really being told that the whole group had long been scanned.
Also, I agree with you that we are being misled regarding Caleb and that he will survive. While the outliers represent a sort of evolution of mankind, Caleb represents a different kind of forced-evolution and synchronicity with the robot-mind. Why else include so much time in the show dedicated to the making of clones as well as the importance of fidelity testing?
I REALLY hope that we see no more of the old William and that they will bring back the young William who showed the ability to take another path. I am tired of the nihilistic old William and his one-way journey into darkness.
I really hope that someone casts Angela Sarafyan in a meaningful role because I was also supremely annoyed at the lack of delivery for Clementine's story. I felt we were being led down a path that would FINALLY have a payoff yet her death was truly maudlin. She always superseded her small part and acted the hell out of very few lines. I always wanted more of Clementine.
I ALSO AGREE that the fight between William and Halores was silly; it belittled, as you say, the very truth of what they are by having them cat-and-mouse it around like sloppy mortals - most unbecoming.
Thank you,
Once again, you have delivered the most authoritative summary and afterthoughts for Westworld.
thanks for being honest with us and yourself about the outcome of this show.
One can love and criticize something.
What went wrong was Arnold achieved sentience before the park opened and the host should’ve never been used for target practice
Hax: Thing's that annoyed me.
1) Maeve's dead body located in the tower and when Hale stated bitch locked me out.
2) Hale grabbing gun with left hand but shooting it with his right hand.
Yep... That lame shooting sceen was annoying as well.
I stopped understanding and trying to understand this show a long time ago. I now take it as an impenetrable book that I keep reading because I enjoy its unusual grammar and vocabulary.
Frankie hesitated to fire at Clementine because she didn't know if there were any bullets in the gun. She needed that distraction to check.
Amazing content as always, Hax! I definitely agree that Caleb won’t break down. His episode titled Fidelity makes me think he’s the first successful human to host transfer and I think the only other true host we’ve seen is MiB at the end of S2… Two things that have been bugging me… What happened to the transcended hosts In the armless bodies? Where are they even? And what happened to the other Dolores pearls from S3?
CONGRATS!! 50K!! HaxDogma kills...y'all just heard?
season 1 of this series got me hooked. i couldnt wait for season 2. when that arrive, a few episodes in, i asked myself "where are they heading with this season? whats the end goal here?" after it ended, it was obvious that a third season had to come and when it came, it changed the series so much in tone, that it might as well be a different series in general. westworld lost me, but season 4 got me curious again and i regret, that i went back into it. i know, many people may like it this way, but i didnt. what i missed in all of the 4 season, is one host or human, that genuienly believed or wanted to go the route of coexistence. season 4 did something, that i already saw present in season 2 dolores.. her fight between wanting revange, wantin, that every host wants revange and having a hard time accepting, that free will of other hosts, means, that they can decide not to be on your side. dolores decided to lie and manipulate her own kind, to further her goal, making her not better then her creators but that was never a thing among the host discussions
Something’s weird, given Bernard has spent many years in the sublime, that he knew Dolores’ pearl was in the tower, how is that Teddy did not get out the sublime as predicted by Charlotte Hale?
Has Teddy terminated himself? Has he evolved beyond his past relationship with Dolores?
Dolores in the second season argued that the sublime was another prison, not the real thing.
Is the sublime something of a dream trap?
Being real means somehow being irreplaceable.
Maybe Westworld will end with reality being the hardcore real free will ‘park’ of the sublime.
It’d be also nice to see earth flourishing again without hosts and mankind.
Maybe again full of forests and animals.
Caleb unlike other remade humans had a true purpose, was selfless, that gave his life true meaning and a reason to go on.
I don't get to far ahead in thinking about a show until it gets renewed.
After Raised by Wolves got canceled I was gutted. Hopefully Westworld doesn't suffer the same fate.
You said that Hale didn’t react the same as Dolores when she was stabbed by William but she did ask her drones to make her stronger and with intention of fighting for her life. Perhaps pain receptors were turned off like it’s been brought up several times throughout the seasons as something that is possible.
Why does Hale not shoot William in the head? All I can come up with is that it might’ve been something Bernard foretold and let her know in the video he left her. We see him saying she needs to reach with her left hand. So maybe she needed to hear Williams bullshit speech to come to the conclusion to let Dolores/Christina make a go of it.
To say that this was a “bad fight scene” between Hale and William is to completely erase that these perfectly logical entities have feelings and wants and desires now. And that those feelings, wants, and desires are now making them illogical. And that in the course of this exchange with William, Hale comes to realize something very important. That she’s not the god to these ppl and she ended up being just another oppressor.
Where did this start going wrong?
From the get-go. From the beginning.
This is truly a show about intergenerational trauma. If we are all reflections of our makers, we carry that trauma with us. Grow up with it. And integrate it into our lives until we can break the cycle. Until we can break the loop.
Arnold and Ford brought their trauma to the hosts. Losing a child and having a shit childhood respectively. The hosts (carrying that trauma) also brought forth the trauma of being abused and mistreated. The guests took out their frustrations on the hosts. William brought out his inner anger for trying to be perfect to earn a place in his fiancées world. Logan was trying to live up to his verbally and emotionally abusive fathers expectations. Clementine had the trauma of trying to make a living for her family. Maeve had the trauma of losing her daughter. Dolores lost her father and massacred a whole town. Teddy had the trauma of being used by Wyatt to massacre the town.
Every single character is who they are and made their decisions bc of their trauma. That speaks worlds for how we function as a society.
And maybe you were being cute by asking that if a woman said something sooner maybe this wouldn’t have happened…. Yo. Talk about misogyny. Women are just as likely to be quiet and not know when intergenerational trauma is fucking them over. Tho they’re probably
Less likely to be violent about it. But what a shit perspective.
First, thank you for all the great Westworld videos. I really enjoyed them over the years and have not missed a single one. We normally interact on twitter but this is a longer comment so I thought I’d post here.
You offer some interesting theories about where season 5 (should it happen) can go next but I ultimately don’t think a show set entirely in the Sublime could work on TV. “What if” stories can work if either the audience doesn’t know about them being imaginary (e.g. Atonement) or if they at least have a chance to become actual reality. But if everyone watching knows that none of what they are seeing is real or ever could be real then I don’t see how it can be sold to the viewers. In at most hundred years the unattended machinery powering the Sublime will fail and will turn off like Christina’s world did, no matter what happens inside.
That is a grim backdrop to any story they may try to build in the Sublime.
There needs to be some kind of out to the real world or it will not work as a TV show. Also, bringing back the all star cast of season 1 would be next to impossible. There are a lot of actors and they may have different plans and commitments. Also, hosts might be immortal but Anthony Hopkins isn’t. He is 84 years old right now. He deserves a peaceful retirement at some point.
So I think if the show does come back it will after all have a component happening in real world. There were some story lines there that were not tied up. Like transcended hosts (what’s going on with them?) or the mysterious body (Maeve?) lying next to Bernard when Hale comes to the tower. Although that just might be something left over from the original season ending. It’s pretty clear they altered it at some point to work as a series ending if necessary.
Agreed. Dolores creating a world in which humans and robots coexist within the Sublime carries little to no weight if the concept cannot be extended beyond the lifespan of the Hoover Dam. I've concluded that when Bernard tells us that this world is beyond saving but that there's hope for the next one, he is speaking somewhat abstractly, in that he means a new human/robot population will inhabit the real world. Can't help feeling that Westworld is a perfect story about the human condition that suffers (at times) from an all too human writing staff. Fingers and toes crossed for a satisfying Season 5!
U just dragged every aspect of this episode and that's what it deserves. I was highly disappointed in this finale
To be fair, the man in black could ultimately have had the view that the only way to end the cycle of violence was to put both humans and hosts digitally, in a unified world. So him deciding to end the world might not to purely evil
Clem walking to that isolated village, almost felt like a post credit scene. Out of sync with the seasonal narrative, but a tie in for a greater narrative.
Good Catch that would make a lot of sense.
I think the reason why Hale survives is kinda explained with how the pearl exits before she destroyed it. Knowing that someone could very easy eliminate her, she moved her weakness to a more shielded area. If she knows people are after her (which she does) I'm sure she would have probably thought about this before.
It would have been better for them to show us something like that before the revealing that she's alive. But I'm not too fussed about it
Great season. Looking forward to the 5th and final season and looking forward to your reviews.
Keep it up buddy! Will definitely tune it on your up-and-coming review with the other shows too.