I’m glad I knew of this video in advance to trying out new joinery techniques. I make a lot of things with dowel joinery, and I have definitely noticed ridges over time. Even on my end grain cutting board I’ve been able to feel ridges where the Purpleheart and maple meet up. Glad to know that it’s normal and nothing to worry about.
The entertainment center I built for my wife 5 years ago from cherry, purpleheart, and walnut, (asian inspired) has weathered well except for the (24" deep due to the Pioneer 200 disc CD changer) top swells during the monsoons and cracks the rest of the year. I framed the top with the purpleheart, (at the time not knowing). Beautiful piece that centers the room perfectly, just don't look at the top! Looks great from the couch though! If you ever find yourself in Sedona, look me up!
I'm happy to know that perfect joints don't last forever, haha. I built a pine entertainment center and after just a month one of the boards raised up a little more than the other. May have not glued it well enough. The red oak sofa table I made though, still flat and seamless. It's a few months old now.
Great video. I love that hall table. Will have to go hunt for the build video. Also love the gag about how you are when you go into the furniture store. I was doing the same thing last night looking at how our dining table was put together. :)
My biggest mistake was make the lid for my tool chest in the middle of summer in Houston, Texas. It was a nice snug fit and moved beautifully! Then winter came and would not shut 100% flat. Then I recently moved to Colorado and this region's winter has caused more shrinkage! Now I can't close the lid pas the lip of the chest top. Added bonus is the floating panel has shrunk to expose unpainted wood of the stiles and rails!!!! Looking back I should have fitted the lid for the outside dimension and incorporated a little more wiggle room on the inside!
Mark, looking at your chess board project and separation woes - it appears on your close up views that your squares are all oriented with the grain running the same way. I made mine from walnut and maple 25 years ago and alternated every square and its held together well. I made my squares all 1/8” thick. I also bonded them to a piece of 3/8” Baltic birch ply.
A way your chessboard would have moved less, is to orient the grain in the squares so, say, the dark squares' grain ran front-to-back, and the light-colored squares' grain ran side-to-side. Better: Make the squares no more than 1/8" thick, and glue them to a plywood substrate. Do the same on the inside, if you wish to have that "just made of squares" look. Problem solved. And no dirt-catching grooves.
Great job! Those are some beautiful pieces. In the case of the projects you shared that use the plywood centers framed by solid wood. Did you consider using tenoned miter joints? with the centerpiece grooved in place on the sides and left with a hair of wiggle room I wonder if you could get away with it being solid wood, possibly laminated.
I’m adding a 3/4” solid wood top to a small chest of drawers. The current top is 3/4 plywood. My plan is to screw the solid wood top to the sub top. I’ll elongate each screw hole in sub top for wood movement. Your opinion?
Hi, Wood Whisperer, I know this video was a long time ago but I have a question about wood movement. I am building a top for my kitchen island. Using maple 3" x 3/4" boards glued together. The top is going to overhang one side by about 12" so I decided to put the top on a 3/4" sheet of plywood for stability. The question is should I glue the maple to the plywood or will that cause an issue with the movement? Thanks
I have a question in making a, for lake of a better description, a cedar chest, but out of oak. I want to build it with the grain running vertical instead of horizontal. What problems do you forsee me having on a piece, 14" tall X 50" wide?
Hey everybody, I have a problem of some tabletops that have breadboard ends. There have been some cracks in the table top as the season is really dry here in Ecuador at the moment. I have been tempted to fill them in and have had been suggested to do so. My concern is that if I fill in the crack, once the relative humidity goes up, will having filled the cracks then cause more stress and create other cracks? Thanks for the advice. Hopefully I can figure this one out.
You made a mistake in your explanation, wood doesn't expand in length, it will expand in thickness and width. That is considering length is along the grain. Wood is essentially a bunch of tubes that can't get longer, but can get wider and thicker. For your bar stool example ( where you made the mistake of saying wood expand in length ), it would actually be the thickness of the butt rest that becomes smaller thus giving the impression that the tenons have extruded from the surface. You will see gaps and spaces appear on your furniture. But really if you keep the final product at the same temperature and humidity level than the shop it was made in, which is around 12-14% humidity. Then the wood shouldn't work and you shouldn't be getting openings. The only reason why it opened is because the wood's humidity level changed, which is most likely due to the fact that you didn't properly stabilised your house humidity levels. You can also use several methods like a pull dowel mortise and tenon assembly, which will pull the tenon inside the mortise as the riser reduces in thickness, and will pull even harder as it expands in thickness. Something like a dovetail joint will never separate if done properly as both pieces of wood work together and are expanding and contracting together. Hope this helps.
You keep saying that w/ frame and panel construction you have to have plywood. No. Hundreds of year old frame and panel solid wood will work if the panel is allowed to float instead of those Cretans who glue the entire panel.
I'm starting to understand the rule of never framing wood with wood or you will blow out the frame from expansion... but what if you wait until the hottest most humid time of year where its the "most expanded" and then make the frame based off of that? is that feasible or will it still be bad?
you need to be more carful !,every creator knows that every project needs AT LEAST one flaw... "Known as an Indian" if you keep attempting flawlessness you might pull it off and therefore ofened the Gods. Tiny flaws left in the projects let the Gods know that we do not think ourselves better creators than them. An old man told me this,I now embrace my small flaws and let anyone know = "That is not a flaw!!,that's simply my Indian,for personal safety! 😀
I’m glad I knew of this video in advance to trying out new joinery techniques. I make a lot of things with dowel joinery, and I have definitely noticed ridges over time. Even on my end grain cutting board I’ve been able to feel ridges where the Purpleheart and maple meet up. Glad to know that it’s normal and nothing to worry about.
The entertainment center I built for my wife 5 years ago from cherry, purpleheart, and walnut, (asian inspired) has weathered well except for the (24" deep due to the Pioneer 200 disc CD changer) top swells during the monsoons and cracks the rest of the year. I framed the top with the purpleheart, (at the time not knowing). Beautiful piece that centers the room perfectly, just don't look at the top! Looks great from the couch though! If you ever find yourself in Sedona, look me up!
+dsl909 I'm the Wood Shop on Page Springs Road.
I'm happy to know that perfect joints don't last forever, haha. I built a pine entertainment center and after just a month one of the boards raised up a little more than the other. May have not glued it well enough. The red oak sofa table I made though, still flat and seamless. It's a few months old now.
Great video. I love that hall table. Will have to go hunt for the build video. Also love the gag about how you are when you go into the furniture store. I was doing the same thing last night looking at how our dining table was put together. :)
The table with the flared legs... beautiful! Very nice design my friend.
Would love to see more videos about "the rules", i.e., what sorts of things are going to create problems down the road.
I feel so much better about my life now. Thank you!
Great information and a reminder to think ahead! Thanks Mark.
Im glad i watched theism new to woodworking and learned a lot from this video.
My biggest mistake was make the lid for my tool chest in the middle of summer in Houston, Texas. It was a nice snug fit and moved beautifully! Then winter came and would not shut 100% flat. Then I recently moved to Colorado and this region's winter has caused more shrinkage! Now I can't close the lid pas the lip of the chest top. Added bonus is the floating panel has shrunk to expose unpainted wood of the stiles and rails!!!! Looking back I should have fitted the lid for the outside dimension and incorporated a little more wiggle room on the inside!
Mark, looking at your chess board project and separation woes - it appears on your close up views that your squares are all oriented with the grain running the same way. I made mine from walnut and maple 25 years ago and alternated every square and its held together well. I made my squares all 1/8” thick. I also bonded them to a piece of 3/8” Baltic birch ply.
Dado out frames and leave a little space for the wood to expand and contract in . With a good fit I don’t usually have an issue .
A way your chessboard would have moved less, is to orient the grain in the squares so, say, the dark squares' grain ran front-to-back, and the light-colored squares' grain ran side-to-side. Better: Make the squares no more than 1/8" thick, and glue them to a plywood substrate. Do the same on the inside, if you wish to have that "just made of squares" look. Problem solved. And no dirt-catching grooves.
Excellent Video ! very informative.
You totally farted @4:20
Hahahhahhahahhaha
Great job! Those are some beautiful pieces. In the case of the projects you shared that use the plywood centers framed by solid wood. Did you consider using tenoned miter joints? with the centerpiece grooved in place on the sides and left with a hair of wiggle room I wonder if you could get away with it being solid wood, possibly laminated.
I’m adding a 3/4” solid wood top to a small chest of drawers. The current top is 3/4 plywood. My plan is to screw the solid wood top to the sub top. I’ll elongate each screw hole in sub top for wood movement. Your opinion?
It would be nice to see how some of your projects fared after moving from the desert to the high cold country.
Hi, Wood Whisperer, I know this video was a long time ago but I have a question about wood movement. I am building a top for my kitchen island. Using maple 3" x 3/4" boards glued together. The top is going to overhang one side by about 12" so I decided to put the top on a 3/4" sheet of plywood for stability. The question is should I glue the maple to the plywood or will that cause an issue with the movement? Thanks
Thanks, this is an excellent video
I have a question in making a, for lake of a better description, a cedar chest, but out of oak. I want to build it with the grain running vertical instead of horizontal. What problems do you forsee me having on a piece, 14" tall X 50" wide?
Great video thank you!
Don't look for the Samurai to admit he made any mistakes on his furniture like your chess board.
Hey everybody, I have a problem of some tabletops that have breadboard ends. There have been some cracks in the table top as the season is really dry here in Ecuador at the moment. I have been tempted to fill them in and have had been suggested to do so. My concern is that if I fill in the crack, once the relative humidity goes up, will having filled the cracks then cause more stress and create other cracks?
Thanks for the advice. Hopefully I can figure this one out.
You made a mistake in your explanation, wood doesn't expand in length, it will expand in thickness and width. That is considering length is along the grain. Wood is essentially a bunch of tubes that can't get longer, but can get wider and thicker. For your bar stool example ( where you made the mistake of saying wood expand in length ), it would actually be the thickness of the butt rest that becomes smaller thus giving the impression that the tenons have extruded from the surface. You will see gaps and spaces appear on your furniture. But really if you keep the final product at the same temperature and humidity level than the shop it was made in, which is around 12-14% humidity. Then the wood shouldn't work and you shouldn't be getting openings. The only reason why it opened is because the wood's humidity level changed, which is most likely due to the fact that you didn't properly stabilised your house humidity levels. You can also use several methods like a pull dowel mortise and tenon assembly, which will pull the tenon inside the mortise as the riser reduces in thickness, and will pull even harder as it expands in thickness. Something like a dovetail joint will never separate if done properly as both pieces of wood work together and are expanding and contracting together.
Hope this helps.
you are wrong
You keep saying that w/ frame and panel construction you have to have plywood. No. Hundreds of year old frame and panel solid wood will work if the panel is allowed to float instead of those Cretans who glue the entire panel.
Yeah, woodwork in Crete was pretty rubbish….
I'm starting to understand the rule of never framing wood with wood or you will blow out the frame from expansion... but what if you wait until the hottest most humid time of year where its the "most expanded" and then make the frame based off of that? is that feasible or will it still be bad?
Then you'd get cracks when the wood contracts in the dry season.
Great video. But I just watched the samurai carpenters video where he says wood movement is a myth :)
So I may have missed it. What was the rule you ignored with the chessboard?
Letting it float in the frame?
+2010stoof not allowing it to float in the frame.
Just another reason why plywood with veneer, even MDF with veneer. Is KING. Then use solid wood edgebanding
Did you fart at 4m21 ?!
th-cam.com/video/kiXZwdqmaFM/w-d-xo.html#t=4m20s
you need to be more carful !,every creator knows that every project needs AT LEAST one flaw... "Known as an Indian" if you keep attempting flawlessness you might pull it off and therefore ofened the Gods. Tiny flaws left in the projects let the Gods know that we do not think ourselves better creators than them. An old man told me this,I now embrace my small flaws and let anyone know = "That is not a flaw!!,that's simply my Indian,for personal safety! 😀
Why does Indian equate to a flaw? Thats pretty messed up.
can u make a toy bed for dog I need one